[score alert text sound] oh. that's the sound of my interest rate going down. according to this score alert, my fico score just went up to 816. 816. 816! 816! fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. so get your credit swagger on. go to experian.com become a member of experian credit tracker and take charge of your score. this morning, our question what is the purpose behind the insult? plus family members continue to push for answers. >> first, president obama's historic trip to east africa. ♪ ♪ good morning, i am rich

louie. >> first effort by a sitting u.s. president to go to the east african nation. >> i am proud to be the first american president to come to kenya. and, of course i am the first kenyan-american to be president of the united states. >> joining us now for more on the speech chris jenning. what struck you about the president's speech this morning? >> first of all, he never called himself a kenyan-american, that's what you call him here and you saw that got him a big ovation. this was expected to be a highlight of the trip the return to his homeland and part of it was personal and he talked about his father and grandfather, and when the

airline lost his luggage, of course he joked that's not something that happens on air force one, they always know where his luggage is. he used the popularity he has here to push against corruption and this is a country where there is rampant corruption, and $250,000 according to one study goes to bribes and think of all the jobs that could create here. in addition for the first time we heard him talking about how this country needs to change its attitude towards women and girls. let me play a little bit of what he had to say about that. >> any nation that fails to educate its girls or employ its women and allowing them to maximize their potential is doomed to fall behind in the global economy. a sports center imagine if you have a team and you don't let half of the team play.

that's stupid. >> he described this country at being at a crossroads. he just left and headed to ethiopia, a country in the most recent election the prime minister got 100% of the vote so they have more serious problems than what we saw here. but i also think that he left on a hopeful note promising that he would be a friend promising that he would return and in my most amusing discovery of the day, when air force landed on friday there were reports in the local media that two out of eight babies who were born in one remote village were named air force one barack obama and simply air force one. >> perfect touching details. chris jansing in nairobi, thank

you. and the most out speaken presidential candidate, donald trump, brought his campaign to texas on thursday. that marked the culmination of a number of events. take a listen. >> you keep saying there is a danger but the crime along the border is down. what danger are you talking about? >> great danger with the illegals, and we are just discussing that, and we have a tremendous danger on the border. >> in his unique media courting donald trump way with his focus on the u.s.-mexican border and other things were over shad kwroed. there are three family detention facilities in the country, two in texas and one in

pennsylvania, and they house a center of the population that remains very much in limbo, and the detention centers were open last year after the u.s. saw a surge of 70,000 seeking asylum here. the facility in texas was housing 100,000 and another facility 200,000. half of the people are children. a judge in california rejected the obama's administration's reason for holding the children. it's a serious violation of a long-standing court settlement and the families should be released as quick as possible. last week president obama became the first president to pay a visit to a federal prison and

though he received kudos for taking his message to a prison cellblock, and there are calls for the president to visit a detention center. in june department of homeland security jeh johnson visited the texas facility and joaquin castro of texas made a congressional visit and also visited the family center in dilly, texas. this was tweeted to us. please have castro on the show to discuss his trips to the facilities in texas. joining us right now, joaquin castro from san antonio, and joining us is the professor of

law for the new york school of law. we'll start with you, congressman. we were talking about you hosting that delegation of members and visiting one of the facilities, what did you see there and how is it being talked about? we are eluded to one of donald trump's conversation. >> more recently we visited, several of us from congress and we saw the folks here and what you see is a mini prison camp people that are in secure areas, and they are not allowed to go into certain areas, and there are head counts at different

times during the day, and sometimes the women were complaining that they were being kept from their kids or being kept in isolation, and i am glad to see that the judge in california made her ruling and also that the department of homeland security and second jeh johnson have taken heed and we met with him and he was receptive to the conversation and made clear they were going to change their policies and i am glad to see they have done that and they have started to in mass put these folks in alternative arrangements. >> congressman we have video of your recent visit to the center in dilly, and i understand many of the people you met granted you with chants translated as we want liberty and to be free. what was your reaction to hearing those chants? >> it was striking and emotional for folks. what you see in the videos are people who are very desperate.

remember, a big part of the reason that we objected to folks being kept in these conditions in addition to the fact that they are kids is they were coming seeking asylum in the united states, and these are people that were fleeing incredible violence in the countries of central america, and we didn't think it appropriate to house anybody that way when they are essentially coming to the country and seeking asylum. it was mothers and kids many of them who looked very worn out, and many of them had given up hope. we met a few who had been there for over a year close to a year, and there was a woman that the group met with and two days later she tried to kill herself, and the same thing had happened a few weeks before. these folks are people who are really in a desperate situation. >> alina doss as we look at the

detention centers, and we look at family immigration, and these are family detention centers, and we have detention centers in california and texas, and what does it mean for the country? >> it's the hope this decision will mark the beginning of the end of family detention in the u.s. the court decision is actually very clear that the government should have been complying all along with the consent decree that you mentioned and that's aimed at protecting children. we know detaining children harms their development even for a short period of time and detaining vulnerable populations can hurt over time and these are asylum seekers as the congressman mentioned. none of these children and mothers need to be detained. they didn't need to be detained in the first place, and there are community organizations that are available to insure that they are aware of what their rights are.

>> are the alternatives legal and how are they different in what you are talking about? >> these involve placing immigrant families in connection with community organizations that provide them with case management assistance. asylum seekers are already prone to want to comply with the law and they can get asylum status and protection here and the alternative is being deported to a place where they face violence. >> it's driven by law? >> yes. >> and i wonder what are the alternatives in a situation like this. the way they are detained is this against u.s. law and policy? >> absolutely. there's a consent decree that has been in place for 18 years that says that children are not supposed to be detained they are supposed to be released to a parent or adult guardian and if so such person is available they

need to be in a safe setting that is licensed to care for children, and they are housing people in the prison-like settings that are completely unlicensed in the care of children. >> jeh johnson announcing changes to shorten the length of stay for most women and most children in the centers, and the pace of releases picked up. are these reforms enough to fix the problem? >> well, you know, it's long as they continue releaseing people in an expedited fashion, and if this happens again, you know we commit more border security, and the border crossings are less than five or ten years ago, and most of them were not trying to sneak around border patrol they

went up to border patrol and presented themselves as seeking asylum and and we want to make sure there are not detention centers being set up again, and my sense is the administration wanted them to use them as temporary centers but up to a year is beyond temporary. the important thing going forward is we don't make the same mistake twice. >> thank you. up next the art of the insult. >> that's right. donald trump may be the king of the campaign zingers, but which candidates have the best comebacks to those. stay tuned, we have the results. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day,

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welcome back. even if nothing else comes from donald trump's 2016 campaign we will have the insults. >> rick perry should have to have an iq test before getting on the debate stage. here's what happens with president walker. whose state, by the way, is a disaster. and then i watch the idiot lindsay graham on tv today, and he calls me a jack ass. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people who are not captured. >> he is a zero. lindsay graham. >> that's just some of them. let's talk about the insults, what they mean and what they do to us and when and why they hurt us. and this is a quote, those playing the social hierarchy

game trying to score points by insulting others who respond with counter insults and game players spend their days doing and buying things calculated to gain the admiration of other people and such attempts are likely to fail but since people only want to admire preferring instead to be admired. it's a recipe for social strife and personal misery. and we have our guests and joining us from columbus ohio a professor of philosophy of wright state university and author of "a slap in the face." we go to you first, and we just looked at donald trump's insults, and he uses many advises, and he says, i don't mean to say, but -- what can we

learn by what he does. >> i have been following his insults in the recent days and for the most part these are playground level insults and not very clever. you can find other politicians who had much better insults than that. >> what is a better insult. >> my favorite example would be winston churchill who said of one of his opponents that he was a sheep in sheep's clothing and that at least has some wit to it. >> and some say there's a read or shade involved so why is it that the insults with the grain of truth, why do they hurt the most? >> i like that we heard trump has to up his game in the insult department, not at the churchill level yet. but there's something about an

insult that is very personal not just to the person receiving the insult but the person who is the insulter. an insult is a projection and you are taking something that you yourself is in secure about, and you put it on somebody else and it feels personal because it is personal and it's not just personal about the person receiving the insult but it's about the insecurity of the person giving the insult. if you wanted to do a psychological profile of trump -- >> go go. >> and so maybe there is a level of insecurity about what trump is going through right now, and in a way projecting this you know in a way it puts him on top of the false hierarchy in a way but it's probably based on something deep within himself. >> so i want to get your perspective and also there is the response right? we have a couple responses to

donald trump. i want to start with john mccain. >> joe, i put all that behind me. for me to look back in anger at anyone is nonproductive. >> rick perry, listen to this. >> let know one be mistaken donald trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservative and it must be diagnosed, excised and discarded. >> john mccain saying i will not engage and perry says i am going to insult. >> and you can really look at yourself and make a joke about yourself. i think that trump's idea alienate and humiliate the other candidates so he can show himself as the alpha dog. that's what he wants and them to be behind the pack.

that's his goal. but it not going to get him to the white house, though. just sayin'. >> william, let's bring you back in here professor. what is the best way to respond to insults? >> the best way, the easiest way is to do absolutely nothing and carry on as if nothing had been said. it's really effective. the other person wonders whether you heard them and they may try to repeat the insult in which case you can say, i heard you the first time and just press on. and a better way, if you have your wits about you, follow an insult against you by a bigger insult of yourself so you engage in self deposit raw indicating humor. they hit you with your best shot and you are laughing it off. >> why do we like the insult? we are talking about it today.

>> actually it's a curious thing. some insults are benign insults. i have joking relationships and friends with whom much of conversation is devoted to playful insults. within a relationship there is going to be a certain level of insults because they are a way to defuse what would otherwise be tension between the parties, sore points and then there are other times when you are simply trying to assert your social dominance over another human being. >> a hierarchy. >> yeah and it's scary to insult somebody without realizing you are doing it and one way to insult somebody is by saying or not doing something and a sensitive person will take that as an insult. >> we take everything you say as

an insult. still to come my first ever letter of the week. can you guess who i am sending it to? before we go, a moment with senator lindsay graham. i am curious as to what you think about potentially not having a place in the debates? we had a pretty -- >> i think it sucks. brad pitt would be in the debate in august and anybody with any celebrity would be in the debate. i think this is a dumb way to weed out the field. >> donald trump, you're fired. >> he's a jack ass. you don't have to run for president and be the world's biggest jack ass. if my numbers go up it's because

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i could say it's haunting them. they are very interested in figuring out a motive because it's important from an investigative standpoint and an emotional standpoint and they say they owe it to the families. tomorrow there are funerals for the two young women killed here and police discovered a journal in the hotel room that the shooter had been living in prior to the shooting. he mentioned the exact time and place of the film screening where the shooting took place, which means there was an element of premeditation there, police say. police are working to confirm that houser visited three other theaters one in lake charles and one in here in lafayette. still ahead for you, janet's letter of the week, and her

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so running for president is hard. every word is dissected and candidates are hit with questions of every variety day after day, and sometimes, well they blow it. not because of a missinterpreted response but because they gave a bad answer. when a candidate steps in it that badly, the best thing to do is move on and try to move on and another governor weighed in and he said that apology wasn't necessary. which is why i am sending a letter this week to that candidate. former florida governor jeb

bush. dear governor bush it's me janet janet, and let's hear what you said. >> lives matter, and it's a gift from god. i frankly think it's one of the most important values we have. in the political context, it's a slogan i guess, and should he have apologized? no. if he believes white lives matter, which i hope he does he shouldn't apologize to a group that didn't agree with him. >> just jeb is clearly meant to distract from let's call it complicated associations with your last name. so you should know when you see and hear black lives matter that it's not a slogan. black lives, because black lives matter is not asking anybody to ignore facts but it's

challenging us to actually face them. you see, when we have long -- what we have long recognized in this country is that black labor matters, the economic foundation of the country was laid upon the backs of enslaved people whose value as human being was defined as their worth as commodities. by putting their bodies directly in the line of fire they left no choice but for the nation to confront and respond to the injustice of jim crow and more recently wage bg when the fault lies with the single racist gunman instead of a system of racist news tuitions black lives matter. it took seven people praying in their church and as made clear,

we understand black culture matters, but governor our historic and ongoing inability as a nation to recognize inherent value and value of black bodies contradicts what you said about our nation's values because the truth is in the united states all life is not treated as precious and if anything black life has been largely regarded disposable which makes a distinct declaration that black lives matter a. radical act that calls for radical action action that must dismantle the criminal justice system that leads to the over incarceration of black bodies at the rate of six times of that of white bodies and action that must wrecken of a system that left a legacy of a black unemployment rate more than double at the rate of white employment and with a history of

housing discrimination persistent with a gap in wealth between white house and black households, action that would not see another precious life -- governor to openly proclaim that black lives matter to boldly embrace and center blackness is to make a statement in defiance of all of these injustices and for you to dismiss it signals your privilege, something you know a bit about. >> in this country of ours the most improbable things can happen as well take that from a guy who met his first president on the day he was born and the second on the day he was brought home from the hospital. >> an improbable thing has happened, because after a very

public reminder from the movement for racial justice, your democratic opponents realize that not only does black life matter but it will be an unavoidable issue in the 2016 election you may want to get ready because the movement will want to know what your campaign really stands for and i don't really think that just jeb is going to cut it. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hp instant ink can save you up to 50% on ink delivered to your door ...so print all you want and never run out. plans start at $2.99 a month. ♪ ♪ the most affordable way to print. hp instant ink. get ready to show your roots... ...with root touch-up from nice'n easy. seamlessly blends with leading shades

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life. we don't want people dying over this and we don't want people murdered over this stuff. what a responsibility i have towards this community. >> caitlyn has plenty of reason to worry here the epidemic of violence especially trance women of color shows no signs of color here. 13 trance women were killed in 2013 and all but one were black or latina. >> we're only halfway through the year and already 11 are dead. this morning i want to make a point of saying these 11 women's names, papi edwards, and penny proud, and lamia beard, and ty underwood, and yasmine pain.

india clarke was found beaten. and k.c. haggard was found killed on the sidewalk, and she sought help after being stabbed but, quote, nobody stopped. she collapsed on the sidewalk and many pedestrians did nothing but look at her body on the ground as she bled out. joining us now are the staff attorney at the aids project, and we have a guest, co-creator of the #blacklivesmatter. thank you for joining us. you are in cleveland for the movement of black lives convening where they are addressing anti-transgender violence as part of the work right. what do you see as the

connection with the violence facing transgender with women of color? >> the violence facing black transwomen in particular is it's an important conversation for us to be having especially within the black community. what we are seeing here is not only is there an epidemic of violence against black bodies but certainly within black communities there's an incredible epidemic against black transbodies, when we talk about black lives mattering we are talking about all black lives and we are pushing within our movement to insure that black transwomen and experiences are centered because when the average black life of is 35 in this country, we have a long way

to go. >> what can we do policy wise and legally? >> thank you both for having me today and naming all the people who have been murdered this year. as we think about what this violence means, we have to think about it as violence perpetrated by the system and by the state that makes it so that black transwomen in particular have a limited life expectancy, and we have to understand that all of the violence exerted on black bodies that janet was speaking about to governor bush that we had to understand that is the same violence targeting black transbodies and our legal interventions musting holistic and we must decrease barriers to access to housing, to employment, but we also critically must look at the

cycles of violence. >> what is the one thing you want to see legally? >> legally, i think it's impossible to pick one thing because when we are looking at the systems it's all interconnected but the base of the violence has to be located in the criminal legal system and we have tonight mass incarceration and disrupt the criminalization of black bodies and black transwomen in particular. >> it's so powerful. we talk about legalities and what do we want to see to push the conversation forward, and not just policy change but culture change is important, so i feel like the media's representation of black transwomen is necessary to change it. what do you think about the landscape particularly right now with transwomen of color in media? >> the first issue is that we need to stop misgendering people in the media, and there needs to be some type of fine put into place for media outlets whether it be print, online or radio that decide that they are not

going to call people by their name and they are going to misgender them because they can. that's what we saw with k.c. haggard, and we have seen it all over the place and it's ridiculous. there are guidelines that have put put in place by g.l.a.d. and if you don't follow them it should be fined by the fcc and it should be that serious. >> we talk about who gets proper treatment in the media and who doesn't. i want to bring it back to you. one person that is getting a lot of attention in the media and whose story is told and obviously a very celebratory way is caitlyn jenner and reality tv and television. do you believe that that will -- her story will help change the discourse around this issue? >> i think what it will do is it will provide more exposure to the experiences of some trance women. what i would love to see is more exposure for black transwomen

and transwomen of color that certainly don't have cameras following them right, but are experiencing extreme and in some cases painful conditions. what we saw, for example, in the case of k.c. right, is that somebody could be murdered on the street and be standing there asking for help and nobody would reach out, right? so you know i am interested in seeing how those images get populated throughout the media, but i am more interested in thinking about how is it that we visiblize and make visible the experiences of a transwomen and we need to dig in. >> our thanks to you guests. coming up on the topic, laverne cox on the vulnerability facing some in the trans community. >> i will bring you a

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before caitlyn jenner publicly proclaimed her transness, the most popular transgender was laverne cox. it's a key part of the success of "orange is the new black," and she is key why the show was nominated for outstanding series this year. the path-clearing actress is a fierce advocate for transpeople that lack the spotlight and privileges that fame affords her. on my show "so popular" on msnbc.com's shift network, we talked about what it will take to protect the lives of trance

people, particularly women of color. the impact of caitlyn jenner's story in popular culture. >> i am hearing so many more stories, a friend of mine is doing transcripts, and it's talking about elevating those stories of transpeople. to me that's what it's about, it's about elevating more of our stories and telling more of our stories and more of us being visibility. the visibility piece, unfortunately, my visibility and your visibility did not save lives, did not save all the transwomen of color being murdered with impunity so hearts and minds have to significantly change. even with public policy and anti-discrimination protections, but we know because we have public policy people are not

being murdered or experiencing discrimination. the hearts and minds of people have to change and that would be an attacker, and this is about patriarchy it has to be dismantled. it's about the patriarch's imagining what it means to be a man, how his manhood may be threatened by the existence of somebody else. that is a really key piece. and then we need policies in place to protect our students for example. i love ab1266 in california. i know a lot of trans students felt safer, and they need to be enforced and there needs to be accountability when they are not informed. >> one of the greatest moments that will shift so many hearts and minds as you mention is caitlyn jenner.

public revelations of her identity. i think she was one of the first, probably public figures who they said black trans women are being murdered. what do you think the impact of that story will have on these policy and culture changes? >> what i always believed is that it's about multiplying transgender stories, and it's not just about one transgender story. we have caitlyn's story and my store gee and your story, and we see the diversity of experience and because of caitlyn's, the reach of her public platform i was in paris at a club, and i need to have fun, too, and i was in paris at a club last weekend and i met this guy, and he had seen what i had written about

caitlyn jenner, and i don't think there is anybody that does not know that caitlyn has transitioned and i don't know if anybody that has not entered that consciousness and awareness, and so that conversation is being ignited in a very different way and it's about how we have the conversations, and how we raise critical awareness around these issues and i think i am very excited to see what caitlyn does next with the amazing platform that she has. this kind of awareness that she has created, you can't buy it. >> it's vast and wide and it's a kardashian type of thing, too, which, you know they have a call in media so strong. >> people who watch the kardashians, they know who caitlyn jenner is and that's powerful. >> that's some of my interview, and you can see more of our

conversation on my show, "so popular," on msnbc. on a lighter note we will get into the twitter beef that nearly broke the internet this week. more "nerd land" at the top of the hour. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. yoplait greek 100. the protein-packed need something filling, taste bud loving, deliciously fruity, grab-and-go, take on the world with 100 calories, snack. yoplait greek 100. there are hundreds of reasons to snack on it.

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during the service about a road trip she and bland recently took together. she said of her daughter this. her purpose was to stop all injustice against blacks in the south. bland died two weeks ago in a texas jail after she was arrested for assaulting a public servant servant. the autopsy found no evidence of a violent struggle before she died. during yesterday's service, her family and friends remained insistent in disbelief she took her own life and it drew increased scrutiny in the wake of new information released from ted kennedy authorities. a dash cam video shows the encounter that begins with the after stopping bland for failure to signal a lane change before the interaction escalates when

bland questioned his request to put out her cigarette. she refuses his demand to commit her vehicle before leaving the car when he threatened to use his taser. >> get out of the car. get out of the car, now. >> why am i being apprehended. >> i said get out of the car. >> why am i being apprehended -- >> i am going to drag you out of here. >> you are going to drag me out of my own car! i will light you up! >> wow. wow. >> for failure to signal you are doing all of this for failure to signal? >> jail booking forms released by the sheriff's office have been called into question for conflicting answers about her condition. in the meantime, her family and

friends, joined by supporters across social media are awaiting a definitive answer to the question of what happened to sandra bland? joining us now from chicago is a member of her family sandra bland's sister sharon cooper joined by their family attorney. and also here in new york director of the center for medicine, health and society, and professor of vanderbilt university, and thank you for staying with us. sharon, we will start with you on this. we know the times are not easy and services were held yesterday and the sound was played which is difficult for many to listen to. how is the family coping with this? >> i don't mean to sound trite, and thank you for having us on this morning, the service was great and it was overwhelmingly heart warming to have so many people to come out and celebrate

sandra's life. >> right. >> to be in a position where the church was filled at capacity and folks had to be turned away due to the fact there was no parking or no seating, and it was overwhelmingly joyous for my family and i to put her to rest in such a peaceful way, and it was celebratory in nature and we just -- the gratitude that we continuously express just cannot say thank you enough and the family is doing still as well as can be expected in light of the ongoing investigation surrounding her death. >> thank you so much for sharing pieces of sandra's life with us and i just want to ask you about what has been consistent is your family's belief and your belief is that sandra did not take her life. can you tell us what you believe happened and about the skepticism about what the texas

authorities have said about sandy's death? >> absolutely. as you can imagine, with the services scheduled for yesterday, i have to tell you i went off the grid the social media grid for about two days. late friday afternoon, you know to formerly grieve sandra's passing and imagine my surprise when i re-engage in the investigation today to find that there is new dash cam video with a different angle, which is just surprising to me because when we initially met with the lead investigation with the texas rangers we were told there was one dash cam video only so i am now at the point where i simply do not trust the investigation. that is why we have been calling along with senators around the world, senator durbin expressed we are calling for the involvement of the doj because we cannot trust the texas

rangers at this point in terms of their level of authenticity in the investigation. >> sharon i -- first, i want to express my heartfelt condolences to you and your family. one of the things you have said on many news outlets is your thanks to social media for keeping the story going, and holding traditional media's feet to the fire frankly. how should we proceed next in getting justice for your sister? how should we proceed next? what do the next steps look like? >> i will tell you, the tweets that i have received thus far, they are just virtual hugs, if you will. the fact that it's not just our family that is still right, and sandra has been gone for almost two weeks as of tomorrow, and we don't have answers and we made attempts to get them and you have people on social media that don't understand as well, who

collectively joined that conversation and every tweet or facebook post i continue to get is the world standing in solidarity to say this does not make sense to me either and i want answers as well. >> there are so many questions and we want to bring you in here, what has the family been told about the progress about the investigation, and we were told that there may have been reports about a second autopsy being recorded. we would love clarity around the investigation? >> the investigation as we understand it, by the tpbgsexas rangers and dps and the like is still ongoing and it's not complete. i think to echo what was said earlier, though is that when you have u.s. senators asking for doj involvement and because of some of the discrepancies we have gotten displayed, obviously

more questions have to be answered. when you ask what can the media do or people do in terms of the next step, and the next step is continue to ask questions standing so this family can begin getting closure. >> as we finish this conversation what was it like for sandra to be at home to be in illinois? give us a sense of what that was like? >> it felt like she felt an overwhelming sense of peace, peace and joy, and i just felt that for her. the outpouring of love it was truly something to be part of and it was an honorable thing to be part of and there was just a feeling of amazement and wonderment there. it was greater than anything that we could have imagined. >> thank you for your strength and for being with us here today. we definitely appreciate that. appreciate you both. stay right here.

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the arrests and death of sandra bland has raised questions about the perception of black women in america. in an article for "the huffington post," kelly brown douglas rights the character of black women as angry as the female version of the criminally dangerous black man. both suggests people who need to be controlled and both images have been subtly ensign yao waited.

to see a black body is to assume it's guilty of something. there is a code of conduct in emergency situations. women and children first, the most vulnerable among us should be rescued before all others and in reality this code of conduct is white women and children first. black women, black children, they are not afforded the luxury of vulnerability. so danielle the stereotype of the angry and hostile black woman is one so prevalent to this day is many people who may have read or seen the sandra bland video may perceive it in different ways than black women would actually view the video. >> the whole idea around presenting black women as angry is the way to detach them from their womanhood. if we could be seen as the emotional and hysterical people it would be assume that society needs to tame and temper our

behavior, so you see a video of sandra bland who was asking the right questions, right, of an officer who refused to answer her, and who refused to see her humanity so he could dismiss her as being belligerent, so he can dismiss her as dismissing his authority. >> to those points loretta lynch was discussing the dynamic. i will play a little bit of that and then jonathan i want your reaction to that. >> i think that it highlights the concern of many in the black community that a routine stop for many of our members of the black community is not handled with the same professionalism and courtesy that other people may get from the police. >> jonathan? >> i think there is a symmetry

between the conversation we were having before particularly about the mental health and illness in this case and the question of violence and stereotypes of violence and as a psychiatrist i am asked to weigh in on cases like this and i am torn in this case because on one hand i think that the texas demonstrated a casebook of whatnot to do if somebody indeed does have a history of trauma or depression and we know from the angle of race that systems themselves produce insanity and produce a particular kind of structural violence and i really want to resist the question about ms. bland's own mental state because what is being lost here is there is a long history of structural violence producing mental illness. >> you are on the stand, and the removal of humanhood by bringing this dynamic of the angry black

woman. what do you say? >> i say when we bring this question of mental illness into it, we get the system off of the hook in a particular way. if we just make it about an individual person's psychology we don't have to take seriously the bigger question that somebody was here pushed against the ground and they were treated in a particular way, and so in a way i would say that i would keep telling the structural story here to say that the stereotype is not one that is coming organically from people of color's biology or their mind and it's coming from a system to treat them in a way and not take seriously the bigger context. >> it's an enter laying and enter sectional issue, right, danielle? do you think the sandra bland case and her arrests specifically in her death, will it spark a larger discussion about the unique needs to center not only black people but black women within our -- the way in which we talk about police

violence? >> that has been one of the major questions about black lives matter although it was started by three black women, where is the conversation around black women's lives. in an awful way, right the purpose of this conversation and us continuing to fight for justice for sandra bland is us continuing to fight for justice for black women and how black women are presented in the criminal justice system which is in mass. one of the things -- i am not a doctor, right, but i have said many times if you are on twitter on what have you, we are suffering from post traumatic blackness disorder and we are seeing every single headline, every day, something awful, a killing or murder and people literally walked around a body that was stabbed and thought that was something you do. you stop and you do something. but when people see black bodies maimed or pulled out from something, it's a justifiable sense they deserve that because

there's something wrong with our blackness and it comes back to the idea that we need to be tamed and to be put down because we are threatening and emotional and we have two much energy that needs to be restrained. >> danielle jonathan thank you for that. up next new charges for the man accused of killing nine people in a charleston church. >> we will dig into the new charges and what attorney general loretta lynch had to say about them. of a better existence. but these birds are suffering. because this better place turned out to have an unreliable cell phone network and the videos on their little bird phones kept buffering. birds hate that. so they came back home. because they get $300 from switching back to verizon, and so can you! verizon. come home to a better network. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. isn't it time to let the real you shine through?

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clear that what federal authorities believed was his motivation. he faces nine counts of murder in state court but south carolina does not have a hate crime law. by mounting a federal case the justice department is spelling out the belief the killings were rooted in racial hatred. >> we have here a defendant who was alleged to have harbored discriminatory views towards african-americans and to sought out an african-american house of worship, one that was particularly noted because of its age and significance and he sought out african-american parishioners at worship, and we think this is the type of case that the federal hate crime statutes were conceived to color, and this is the original domestic terrorism. >> joining us to talk more executive director of the center for constitutional rights vince, as we look at what

loretta lynch was saying here the original terrorism. >> this is a classic example of the federal government stepping in where actually where state law does approach the -- make the right approach but doesn't quite get to the nature of the problem here, and the problem is not that he just intended to kill people but he intended to kill black people in a church. those are two things that are typically associated with hate crime laws and that the federal government is stepping in because south carolina is one of five states that doesn't have any hate limes legislation. >> what is the importance of putting that particular distinction on this -- you know this nine-person murder? >> let's be clear that understate law, he is already being charged for nine murders and attempted murders, but the reason why hate crimes happen is because, number one, it's supposed to detour the type of behavior targeting people because of who they are, protected class two, these tends

of crimes send a mess toeupblg communities more than regular murders do and three, it's looking to create some sort of healing in communities through this type of prosecution. >> the message it would send to extremists communities, and what would lead a young person to develop those kinds of extreme views that leads to that kind of violence. >> i would like to pick up on saying, the goal here you couldn't have a more guilty person right now. it's very very clear. i think the purpose of calling this a hate crime is several. one is that there is a tendency particularly when a shooter is white to individualate the problem. what a hate crime does is allow us to put a crime within a particular social context like terrorism to say there's a bigger politics to this and it helps us to not only put it in the political context but we

talk about race, and if it was not a hate crime, the racial aspect would not have been at the fore. the last part is it doesn't just talk about the race of the victims and it let's us talk about whiteness in a particular way, there's a particular race at play here not just in the victims but the perpetrator of the crimes. i think it's very important because it allows us to tell the bigger cultural story that helps us to address the question that everybody wants to know why did he do it. >> as we look at hate crimes or motivation and laws but to understand hate within itself how does that work? you are in there pushing for a case, pushing for your client and it seems -- how does this come about? >> you have to look at the facts, and it does matter that there was a witness that said he uttered those words and that will be used as evidence to show that this was motivated by

trying to kill a particular group. but hate crimes while they are very important and i think they are necessary, and we're still in a situation where we are trying to prosecute our way out of a social problem, and the other side of this is while it's very well and good that the prosecutions are moving forward, we have to ask ourself if the government expands itself to have this type of power in the terrorism context or hate context, while we might agree in this particular case it's unlawful use, and if they are so broad we can find some of those laws being used against us and if we think about the patriot act, a lot of people thought that was a good thing, and it's also a challenge when you pass laws and you use political motivation in the context of that particular. >> how do you prosecute hate crimes? >> they have to be proved in two ways. we have to make sure the prosecutors are using the right evidence to be able to prosecute particular crimes based on evidence that we can all agree

on is hateful. we have to be careful about using these types of cases in celebrated cases where there's a tendency to over prosecute based upon large groups that the government wants to investigate. i think it's fine to prosecute individuals but if we think about this if the shooter had been muslim it would be a different conversation and they would be infiltrating the entire muslim community and not sway the black community, and we have to be careful about how we use it. >> that it doesn't continue to uphold the ways in which we say that, you know white victimhood is one in which we are going to prosecute, you know people of color, more harshly? >> it's also important to note the current hate crime legislation comes out of the civil rights era, the 1968 legislation so there is a racially protective aspect and you are taking care of groups of

people that have not been treated fair under the law, so i agree that it's a balance. >> what does this say about loretta lynch's approach to racial justice in her work? >> loretta lynch is approaching her position with all of the brilliance that we expected her to approach it with and also with a certain amount of heart that you don't always see in attorney generals, which i find very refreshing. she seems to be quite clear from the comments that we have seen, number one, what the praus cue tory authority is and what that means in the context of the current situation. it's not that there is no hate crimes, and just like it's not nothing that the flag was flying over the capitol. >> federal versus state hate crimes and why that makes a difference here? >> i wonder often if ed meece was the attorney general, would

we have the same level of intervention. the federal government comes in at times when the state government -- potentially not paying attention to the aspects. i wanted to ask vince if he was surprised that the attorney general used the word "terrorism" in her description of this? >> i was not surprised. but i do find the aspect problematic, because we should not put heinous crimes in with terrorism crimes. they are separate and distinct and that's a road i think we need to be concerned about. if we think about federal intervention and state laws, and this goes back to the '50s and '60s in the south there was no state mechanisms to get justice, and advocates looked to the federal government in things like this and this is a long continuation of a battle.

but what i think is interesting, south carolina seems to be tipping a little bit, the discussion about the flag and the chance that after six or seven tries the hate crimes might actually pass this time. i am not suggesting that we have a complete ground shift, but it's a different strategy that i think can be deployed going forward. >> when you look at states that do or do not have hate crimes in place, what does that tell us about those states? >> these laws get passed by legislators and the legislators are responding to communities that see these things as important. i would venture to say the reason why south carolina has not had hate crime statutes is not because people have not put them forward but because whatever the values are that those statuted represent had not sunk into the system before. >> i think it would be interesting in louisiana where we had another tragic shooting it seemed to be connected to the

hate ideology, and the victims were white. it will be interesting to see what plays out there in light of the case also. >> thank you. we do want to note this one correction. the arraignment for dylan roof has been moved to friday july 31st. still to come president obama is on his way to ethiopia this morning. >> why it's another important first for the commander in chief. this is the model rear end event. the model year end sales event. it's year end! it's a rear end event. year end, rear end check it out. talk about turbocharging my engine. you're gorgeous. what kind of car do you like? new, or many miles on it? get a $1000 volkswagen reward card on select 2015 passat models. or lease a 2015 passat limited edition for $199 a moh after a $1000 bonus. imagine - she won't have to remember passwords. or obsess about security. she'll log in with her smile. he'll have his very own personal assistant.

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reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? president obama continues his trip in east africa today, starting with a speech in front of thousands in nairobi, kenya. and then he heads to ethiopia. chris jansing is traveling with the president. >> reporter: today's speech was supposed to be the highlight of his visit to his ancestral homeland but it was a good

opportunity to see the enthusiasm of the crowds and thousands of people lining the streets and some could not contain themselves and they were chasing after it and shouting his name and we saw after the 45-minute speech people were pushing so hard to have a chance to shake the hand of the leader of the free world that the secret service actually hustled him back on to the stage. that's the popularity he wanted to use in the speech to push for change, and a country that is still at the crossroads of progress and peril. this is a country that needs to move away from corruption it's costing too much. and for the first time we heard him pushing for women and girls and saying it's not acceptable for them to be second class citizens anymore, and they talked about counterterrorism and ways in which he expect the united states and kenya to move forward. he now has gone on to ethiopia

a country with many of the same problems with things like terrorism, corruption and even a more difficult challenge with democracy and there are a lot of people that suggested that the president should not go there in the last election the prime minister got 100% of the vote but as his aides point out he goes to places like china, and you don't always go to places where you agree with the leadership but you go there to push for our democratic values. >> thank you so much for that. up next before they worked it out it was an all-out twitter feud. yes, what nicky and taylor tell us about feminism and pop culture and politics. you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure. hp helps business move on all the possibilities of today.

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year. the most views in 24 hours last august took issue with her exsphraouson from the video of the year category. she tweeted this when the other girls drops a video, and if your video celebrates with slim bodies then your video will be nominated. the former country music star tweeted nicki her take. the two continued to tweet back and forthwith swift making this offer, if i win, please come up with me. you are invited to any stage i am ever on. nominees brunner mars and ed

shearin joined in. and then came think pieces and it's about so much more than girl crew love. and even among some of the most fortunate and famous women in the world, womenhood is a different experience when you are a woman of color, and women who deviate from straight white american normal are often sidelined by the same people who claim to be advocates for women of generally. >> i thought i was being called out. i missed the point and i misunderstood and then misspoke. nicki minaj accepted the apology

on her "good morning america" appearance. >> she was super sweet and she said i did not understand the big picture of what you were saying and now i get it. i posted something on instagram, and it showed the stats of other videos that had been nominated previously, and there seemed to be a little funny business going on. >> legendary side eye. back at the table, a contributor to msnbc, and joining us journalist and lawyer who we just quoted. jill, did taylor swift finally get the point or maybe missing

the point initially finally get the point. >> i was glad to see her apologize, and she said this was not about me but a bigger issue, and every time nicki minaj comments on it and having that conversation on "good morning america" is a huge deal and important and it's excellent that she keeps refocusing on her point and making the conversation about the more important topic than the twitter beef. >> richard, what do you know about the twitter beef? >> you are the expect on this. >> yes, so what i find interesting about this conversation is how the men kind of jumped in a little bit, and was that trivializing the intense conversation that nicki was trying to have. >> yeah we have something where

men come in and trivialize the issue, and women are color are traditionally sidelined of course they are backup singers for white artists, which we have seen, and so this idea that here is something serious, and let's pivot to poke fun at each other misses the extreme point, which is there is racism in the industry in america, and this is just one area where you can see it, a spotlight being shined on it because of the two stars. >> going at the level lower to the table here when we look at feminism feminism, how it's different for those -- this is obviously a topic discussed at length how it's different but exhibiting itself in the twitter feud how it's different between white women and black women or women

of color, and the difference when we talk about the idea of what feminism is. >> i wonder how we are keeping everything -- when i talk about my own feminism i often speak about transness and being a woman of color and a black woman and what all those speak about, so how do we have these conversations because they bubble up over and over and over, and we saw it with amy schumer recently as well. >> and discuss it for those that may not be at that level, and we talk about men or others engaging in the conversation and they don't understand there are distinctions there. >> that's part of the reason why i think we cannot make celebrities feminist spokes people, and nicki minaj is a publicly independent strong self assured woman and all of that is important, but if you have somebody as taylor swift, and she is probably not super well

versed in feminists theory and doesn't know what the word enter sectional is you don't want her to be the spokeswoman, and publicly screwing up here it opens up the greater debate where people that are taylor swift fans who never heard the word enter sectional, they can click and read about the pieces written about it and hopefully broaden their understanding, and people like you, janet, who is much more educated on what feminism means, and taylor swift feminism -- >> i have to talk about the

entertainment weekly online story that reported on the twitter feud between these two women, and i did not see it as a feud and that's a whole other thing. >> tell us. >> they had -- they were forced to replace the story after they used interesting photos that skewed the way in which nicki minaj was portrayed within. >> you came back with your own pick stitch which was brilliant because we have the angry black woman that they were using and they were using imagery, so they had the very beautiful angelic looking taylor swift like this and then nicki minaj with the crazed wide-eyed probably a stamp from a video, and here is the split. you are like wait a minute nicki minaj was the one having a very intellectualized conversation about how she says herself and other women in the music industry and why they are not being recognized. i think one of the best things that they have said and it's on

the cover of "eboni" right now, and you know, you have these white women who love black culture but dismiss the understanding and the cultural weight that black people have to actually go through. so nicki minaj having a conversation about how black women influence the music industry like nobody else and are pushed aside as not seeming mainstream. >> thank you so much. up next making a splash. >> the piranhas are in nerd land. stick around for that. mazing? but you get there and find out it's far from amazing. it's almost like it was too good to be true? that's like when you switch wireless carriers, and find yourself stranded with a frustrating unreliable connection.

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growing up in hawaii i spent a lot of time in water. it was kind of hard to avoid on the island, right? >> you're bragging. >> i am. this isn't the case for many black pem. the usa swimming foundation

found that 70% of african-american children cannot swim. according to the cdc, black children ages 5 through 19 drown in swimming pools at rates 5 1/2 times higher than those of white people. but a group of brooklyn youngsters on the ymca piranha swim team are changing those sta tis tigs. they're making a splash since the '90s, and 18 of the 45 swimmers qualified for state championships this year. >> joining us right now, one of the piranhas that qualified for the championship for the 50-yard free style, and her 8-year-old brother matthew, and the guy behind all of this, welcome all three. >> thank you for having us. >> ashley favorite stroke, what

is it, free style, i guess? >> yes. >> why? >> i qualified for it in state championship. and i placed 11th. >> 11th? congratulations. that's you and -- you must be fast. >> what got you started swimming? >> we started when we were 8 months old. >> you've deny doing ingbeen doing it basically forever. >> yes. >> i started when i was 1. >> you are an old guy. 1-year-old, come on. joking. >> that would be our shrimp program. >> yes. >> what are some of your favorite swimmers that you see in the olympics or on the national stage? >> william neil and olia atkinson. >> she's from jamaica, is that correct? and how about yours?

>> michael phelps. because he's good at butterfly, and butterfly is also my favorite stroke. >> you're going to leave track to dedicate full-time to swimming, is that true? >> yes. because i've been doing swimmer much longer and i'm better at it. and i just started track. yeah. >> you can do everything. you're kind of like an all-fielder is what we like to say. daugherty, for 20 years i was a "y" kid. this is so important. talk about the swim programs. we have the dynamics that janet was describing in terms of 5.5 likelihood to drown, african-americans versus nonafrican-americans. >> we are incredibly proud of our ymca piranhas. they're challenging the myths around young black people and swimming. it takes a real amount of dedication and hard work to swim at the level that they do.

and the fact that they exhibit these values at early ages are truly wonderful. swimming programs at the "y," we feel it is vital that swimming skills are incredibly vital to young people and their success. their ability, the challenges related to drowning. >> a couple years between the two -- the three of you, when you were growing up and when you look at here ashley and matthew, different experience from when you were growing up. >> absolutely. growing up for me swimming wasn't a part of the activity that we participated in. i was an inner city kid, blacktops, basketball the community pool which is only open in july and august. it's not recommended for learning to swim. so those are challenges. this is where the "y" steps in a xhun-based organization that provides swimming instruction year round for young people. >> ashley what advice would you give to other kids who may be a little scared to learn how to

swim? >> you should just relax and not be too tense. >> just relax. matthew? >> because, like if you get, like, scared it's not going to help at all. later on you'll see that you'll really like it. >> it's a lot of fun, i'm sure right? ashley, renwick, matthew and daugherty, thank you for sharing your story with us. >> good piece of advice for us. do it every day. relax, breathe. you we do that every day before we go on tv. thanks for sticking around with us. >> melissa will be back next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. catch my popular fridays on msnbc.com. >> appropriately named, so popular. i love that show. thanks you guys. for all of you out there, coming up at the top of the

hour has the criticism for donald trump hurt his campaign for president. we'll show you how he's doing in the early voting states. also the arrest of sandy bland. were the state trooper's demands legal? i'll speak with defense attorney tom mesereau. a story about acceptance and transformation. what we can learn from "i am cait," and cait's journey. welcome to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm.

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