and stay ready for everything that is still to come. two key early states. this sunday our brand new polls. hillary clinton is struggling, and donald trump is surging in two key early states. >> i'm leading as a republican. i want to run as a republican. the best chance we have of winning is if i win as a republican. >> why trump may be a more durable candidate that many people realize. also, the man who has the clinton campaign very nervous, senator bernie sanders. and the latest republican in the race, john kasich. both will join me. >> we're not running for class president. grow up! plus, the latest twist in the hillary clinton email controversy. >> i am confident that i never sent nor received any information that was classified at the time it was sent and received. >> will there be a justice department investigation?

and the planned parenthood firestorm. serious wrongdoing or an orchestrated attempt to discredit the group? i'm chuck todd. joining me to provide insight and analysis this sunday morning are msnbc and telemundo jose diaz-balart. former white house political director under president george w. bush, sara fagan. amy walter of the cook political report and ron fornier of "national journal." welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." well, good sunday morning. it's been another big week in the presidential campaign with donald trump continuing to wreak havoc in the republican race. we'll have plenty of that later in the program, including trump's strong numbers in our brand-new polls from iowa and new hampshire. but we're going to start by focusing on the battle for the democratic nomination and those new nbc news surveys out of iowa and new hampshire. there's some particularly troubling news for the hillary clinton campaign, confirming

that there is a negative trend happening here. her favorability numbers are dismal. remember, iowa and new hampshire are actual swing states in a general election. in iowa, 56% of all voters have an unfavorable view of the former secretary of state. just 37% view her favorably. it's the same story in new hampshire. 57% say they have an unfavorable view of her and an identical 37% say they have a favorable one. all this has impacted her lead over senator bernie sanders among democrat voters in iowa. clinton leads sanders 55-26, it's a solid lead, until you realize this. she was up 61 points when we surveyed in february. in new hampshire, she had a 56-point lead back in february. that lead has shrunk down to just 13 points, 47-34. all of this as the hillary e-mail controversy is in the news again. did she have classified e-mails on her privateer server? did she know? will the justice department investigate?

will will she testify before the benghazi committee? >> i am confident that i never sent nor received any information that was classified at the time it was sent and received. i think what you're seeing here is a very typical kind of discussion to some extent disagreement among various parts of the government over what should or should not be publicly released. >> a much ado about nothing defense from her. we'll get a lot more on the clinton e-mail controversy in the show. right now i want to bring in the independent senator from vermont, bernie sanders, who joins me from new orleans. he has been spending the weekend in louisiana. senator, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be with you, chuck. >> you're in louisiana so let me start with the tragic news there. get into the politics of it a little bit, which is having to do with the issue of gun control. a lot of democrats, president obama has expressed some remorse that he hasn't been able to make

more progress on gun control. and you continue to walk a -- straddle a line here. you talk about you're sort of pro nra votes in vermont, having to do with being about vermont. >> chuck, chuck, that's not what i said. i come from a state which has virtually no gun control, and yet i voted to ban certain types of assault weapons. i voted to close the gun show loophole and i voted for background -- instant background checks. what i said is that a nation -- as a nation, we can't continue screaming at each other or else we've got to find common ground. >> what is that? what is that, because you said it. >> for a start, universal instant background checks. nobody should have a gun who has a criminal background, who's involved in domestic abuse situations. people should not have guns who are going to hurt other people, who are unstable. second of all, i believe that we need to make sure that certain types of guns used to kill people exclusively, not for hunting, they should not be sold

in the united states of america. we have a huge loophole now with gun shows that should be eliminated. there may be other things that we have to do. but coming from a rural state, i think i can communicate with folks coming from urban states where guns mean different things than they do in vermont where it is used for hunting. we don't have to argue with each other and yell at each other. we need a common sense solution. >> you bring up the instant background checks. if you look at the -- it appears to be the situation in louisiana, the situation in charleston, there were background checks made and they didn't work. they didn't catch what was necessary. instant background checks lead to more speed and more mistakes. don't you need longer waiting periods? >> well, what we need to do is -- whatever we need is a system that works. bottom line is i hope that nobody in america disagrees that people, as in the case of the shooting here in louisiana, who have a history of mental instability should not be having guns. people who have criminal backgrounds, people who are abusing wives or girlfriends

should not be having guns. that is the issue i think we can bring people together around. >> i guess going back to that question, we have those laws on the books and it's not working. >> then we've got to make them stronger and more enforceable. that's what we've got to do. >> i want to move to -- you last night spoke at the southern christian leadership conference. of course it's a major civil rights organization, a lot of history there. but i want to play -- i want to play a clip that you had, sort of a reaction last week at net roots nation in a confrontation with a black lives matter -- >> i didn't have a confrontation. what i had was -- i was there to speak about immigration reform and some people started disrupting the meeting. the issue that they raised was in fact a very important issue about black lives matter, about sandra bland, about black people getting yanked out of in this case of sandra bland, getting yanked out of an automobile, thrown to the ground and ending up dead three days later because of a minor traffic violation. so this is an issue which is a very important issue, an issue

of concern that i strongly share. >> well, some people felt you were being too dismissive of the protesters. >> no, i'm not dismissive. i've been involved in the civil rights movement all of my life, and i believe that we have to deal with this issue of institutional racism. this is what i also believe, and speaking to the ftlc last night, this is what i quoted. martin luther king, when he died, when he was assassinated understood and was working on a poor people's march. we have to end institutional racism but we have to deal with the reality that 50% of young black kids are unemployed. we have massive poverty in america, in our country, and we have unsustainable level of income and wealth inequality. >> the criticism that's come to you is that your answer is always economic injustice. >> no. >> and many african-american activists believe, no, no, no, no, you've got to deal with -- institutional racism is a separate problem from economic injustice. >> they are parallel problems, they are, absolutely correct.

but as martin luther king jr. told us, we have to address both. we have to rid this country of racism. what we saw in charleston, south carolina, a few weeks ago, a guy motivated by hate groups who goes out and kills black people because they're black. sandra bland being yanked out of a car, dying three days later for what? for minor traffic violation. but my view is that we have got to deal with the fact that the middle class of this country is disappearing. that we have millions of people working for wages that are much too low, impacts everybody. impacts the african-american community even more. those are issues that do have to be dealt with just at the same time as we deal with institutional racism. >> let me go to economic injustice. hillary clinton on friday gave a speech in front of a wall street speech showing that she wants to get a little tougher on wall street. does that tell you your campaign is working? >> i think my campaign is working. i think a whole lot of people are talking about what i have been talking about for decades. and that it is morally

unacceptable that the top one-tenth of 1% of people in this country own almost as much wealth and the bottom 90%. we have millions of people working for starvation wages. we've got to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. that we have a trade policy which allows corporations to shut down in america and take our jobs to cheap labor countries abroad. so i think that message is resonating. i am in red states, i am in blue states and i think the american people want changes in the way we do economics and politics. >> this morning "new york times,"" washington post" lump you and donald trump as touching the same chord in different ways. do you buy that comparison. >> no, i don't. i think the chord that we are touching all over this country is that people are profoundly disgusted with economics that make the richest people richer and everybody else poorer. they are profoundly angered and disturbed by a political campaign system that -- that allows billionaires to buy elections because of this

disastrous campaign finance system called citizens united. what i have said is if elected president, we're going to pass a constitutional amendment to get rid of citizens united so we restore democracy in america. this is a huge, huge issue. >> so you don't buy these comparisons to trump and the chord and populous chord he's touching either? >> no. we are having working people who are saying that it is absurd that all almost new income and all new wealth is going to the top 1%. they can't afford to send their kids to college, they can't afford child care to their kids, they're working longer hours for low wages. we want an economy that works for all of us, not just the billionaire class. we want a campaign finance system that ordinary people can run for office on without being dependent on the koch brothers and other billionaires. >> senator bernie sanders, i'm going to leave it there. i know you've been all over the country these days campaigning. stay safe on the trail, sir, thanks for coming on. >> my pleasure. >> let me bring in the panel here. jose diaz-balart, sara fagan,

amy walter, and ron fornier. amy, let me start with you. you know, he's fiery, he touches on these issues, but it's interesting here, he was pretty quickly defensive with me on two areas. the clinton campaign is trying to poke at him a little bit here, guns and african-americans. >> and on the liberal base. look, for all the talk about hillary clinton's drop among -- and her favorables among the broader electorate, when you see where she is among the democrat electorate, she's still very popular. the support for bernie sanders isn't coming at the expense of because they're saying i don't like hillary clinton, i'm going to choose somebody else. they like her but also like his bluntness, they like his refreshing candor. he is the exact opposite of hillary clinton in terms of how he presents himself. and i think that is something that's appealing to democrats. but they're not going to him because they think that hillary clinton is not a good enough advocate for them. >> you know, ron, there's something interesting in our

polling in iowa and new hampshire about bernie sanders and the rest of the field. we tested on favorability ratings about seven or eight candidates, all the major republicans and both hillary clinton and bernie sanders. there's just one candidate who has a net positive favorable rating, bernie sanders. what does that tell you? >> partly they don't know who he is and don't see him as part of the politics they hate, the part of politics that's not getting anything done, the part of politics that's cynical, the part of politics that's broken. the part of politics that only cares about winning the next election. the week that donald trump got in, i compared the two men. they both are channeling -- they both reflect the public's anger in politics. what is hillary clinton doing? bless her soul, but she's playing right into that disdain. we have a candidate here who's being secretive, unaccountable, not playing by the rules that everybody else is and not being honest or candid about what she's done with her e-mails and that is exactly what the american people don't want. >> jose, if sanders has hit a ceiling right now, it's because he can't convince

african-americans and latinos that he's a better choice than hillary clinton. he's trying to get better on immigration, talk about it more. how did he do there? he wants to go back to economic injustice. >> he hasn't been perceived in the past as someone who is a standard bearer on the immigration issue. he was trying to do that by addressing the issue of immigration, but, chuck, you know what it is i think people see in him? they see someone who probably believes what they say and says what they believe. >> you never look at him like he's a politician. >> you never get the sense that what he's telling you is focus group, poll driven what are the key words, the key terms to use. this is a guy who comes across. in that sense, chuck, i think there is a similarity with the perception there is out there with donald trump. >> when you see sanders, do you think it's dragging hillary clinton to the left in a bad way or do you think it's making her a better candidate? >> i think it's dragging her to the left in a bad way. the reality is if you look back over the last 20 years, the last

of the democratic party has moved farther than the right of the republican party. on taxes, on spending, on social issues. >> they both moved farther to their spaces. >> they did, but they moved more. and her ability to win a general election is her ability to run as a centrist candidate. bernie sanders will make that very difficult for her. >> i don't think george w. bush was far different on immigration than romney was. >> but social issues, spending, taxes, they have moved farther to the left. he impersifies that. >> her problem is that people don't trust her. that's the problem. >> it seems to be. but where does sanders go from here and at what point does he become big enough that joe biden doesn't get in? does that have any impact on biden's thinking? >> i can't believe that it does. but i do think that this is really the question for hillary clinton. you hit right on it.

which is at what point do voters say i don't know that i can trust her becoming much more of an issue and where bernie sanders hits it is exactly that. there's an authentic -- >> authenticity. >> -- that she cannot replicate. >> at what point, chuck, does hillary clinton decide that grinding out this election and winning even if people don't trust me but i'm better than the other guy. >> it's if the person will do better for them. all the other issues are secondary. >> i'm going to pause it here because we have more time to go through this. but i am trying to get to other parts of the show. up next, he continues to surge in the polls. no matter how much criticism he gets. you know who i'm talking about. just who are the voters that are supporting donald trump after the break. so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep them all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberyy apple scones smell about done.

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it's no secret donald trump and bernie sanders have little in common. you saw bernie doesn't want to less known thesomething they do share. they are starting more conventional rivals by surging in the polls thanks to two american political movement, populism. >> you got it. >> on the right -- to be talked about, which is something that most politicians just dance around. >> i think he would stop the in america. >> trump and sanders supporters are disenchanthey s see as a broken system. fed up with washington dysfunction. economic anxie similarities end. sanders supporters are likely to be white, liberal and have a coll comes from voters earning more than $50,000 a year.

trump supporters are also more likely to be white, but without a college degree. he performs somewhat better among self-described moderates. >> we have a tremendous danger on the border with illegals coming in. >> and trump is taking advantage of a powerful wedge issue in the republican primary -- immigration. >> we're tired of the dishonesty and people that can't do anything. >> he's not politically correct. >> you can't buy it, okay? he has some ideas people need to pay attention to. >> we've seen this attempt to appeal to republican voters who feel left behind economically and culturally before. pat buchanan channeled anxiety inside the gop in 1992 and again in 1996. . >> you watch the sustainment. all the knights and barons will be riding into the castle pulling up the drawbridge in a moment. because they're coming. all the peasants are coming with pitch forks after them. >> ross perot tapped a coalition of the disaffected back in 1992,

winning 19% of the vote by exploiting fears that nafta would send jobs overseas. >> there will be a job-sucking sound going south. >> if trump follows perot and takes the independent route -- >> trump would be sliding into the perot slot of '92 and would for the same voters and do the same thing. two mean once again a third clinton might be elected with less than 50% of the vote. >> between clinton and the nomination, there's bernie sanders, a modern-day eugene mccarthy, with a message on economic\s that's drawing crowds. >> all of our workers, from coast to coast, need 15 bucks an hour. >> 10,000 in madison, wisconsin. 7,500 in portland maine. 2,500 in council bluffs, iowa. >> he's not bought by the billionaires. he's honest and stands up for what he believes in. you can't buy him. >> the better sanders does, the more attention hillary clinton has to give to the progressives in her own party. >> joined by pat buchanan who

rode that populous wave to a strong showing in the '92 showing in new hampshire and won new hampshire in '96. also john nichols, washington correspondent for "the nation," celebrating its 150th anniversary this month. congratulations. he's also interviewed bernie sanders many times. welcome to you both. pat, when you see trump and what he is doing to the field -- i know you both have had your own encounters in the past -- similar to what you rode in '92? >> there are similarities. trump's strepg is the trump's strength is the exact opposite. one is overlap with bernie sanders, that's the trade issue, export of american jobs and factories and what's happening to the american middle class. the other one trump is hitting, which is one of the hottest issues in the whole west as well as the united states, is the massive invasion, if you will, and what people feel is the conquest of the west by massive third world immigration from refugees and border jumpers and

all the rest. he's wired into both of these and they're enormously popular issues. >> john, even when you talk about immigration, immigration is tied to economics. basically they're both appealing to the same working class voters who feel left behind. is that fair? >> i don't think so. >> okay. >> i think our politics has really divided a lot since pat ran for president. i think our parties are very, very different. the truth of the matter is that within the democratic party, i think when you -- and i've been at these events bernie sanders has been at. i've moderated panels. i've introduced him. the truth of the matter is that the people who are at these events tend to be very supportive of immigrant rights, passionate about getting real immigrant -- immigration reform. i'd be very concerned, as you point out, about black lives matter, about a lot of these other issues, and concerned about economic injustice. but i think the thing a lot of people are missing at this point is that a lot has changed since

2008. we have seen a development in this country of mass movements. for $15 wage. saying it is wrong to bail out bankers and run military campaigns. a lot of people who speak that language profoundly. >> that is left populism. that is the populism of the full dinner pail, the cost of gold -- money changes and the temple of our civilization, fdr. there is an aspect seed to thissish issue that's not economic. it's about social, radical, ethnic, that america is changing dramatically. we're becoming a different country. rooted people all over america are deeply concerned about. remember barack obama talked about these people, their stuck to their bibles and their guns and their hostility to foreign folks? this is an enormous movement. in europe there's a fire all over this movement in every country.

in russia -- excuse me, and trump has tapped into this. frankly, just like the issue you had that -- you know, that black lady that was killed, you had -- or that killed herself eventually, but you had that lady out there in san francisco, these things are going to feed this, chuck, all the way into the primary. these incidents just like the black lives matter. 't disagree with pat more about this. i think this country is growing and evolving. and i think that what's really positive is we've started to see labor movement, which was white -- once resistant to this immigration issues. >> in 2007 bernie sanders was with the senate in killing immigration. >> labor. >> and labor was there, too. >> i want to tell you, people have grown. you know, you point out, you know, you're critical of president obama with some of the tharty -- >> not in the republican party, but you criticize president obama, i respect what you're saying, but i will tell you, president obama won the nomination and the election.

he won because -- >> but, look. >> -- because a substantial portion of americans who want to get beyond -- >> is this a silent majority or vocal minority in republican party? >> immigration issue -- if you talk about border security and the rest of it, look, the republican party, they overturn mccain and bush and all of them in 2007. this is enough -- frankly, those two issues are enough to carry you to a republican nomination. trump is ranked number one. he's like kentucky in the sweet 16. i think he gets into the final four. if he maintains these polls, he'll be in the finals. let you tell you something else. if the president comes home with his tpp, his transpacific partnership trade deal i can see bernie sanders and trump out on the stump and going up to the hill and killing it. >> can you picture that? >> they will not be together. >> no, no. >> we haven't gotten that far yet. >> there's a point in sanders' candidacy -- and martin o'malley

talking about a lot of these issues, too. even hillary clinton bringing up some of this. if there is a point to this it is that a billionaire beating up on immigrants is not an economic populism that america wants or needs. >> but, look -- >> that's where this populism is not the same. >> these are profoundly -- >> there's an aspect of trump, which is, you know, the showman and the big limo and the rest of it. you know, every man a king but no man wears a crown. he's got that. we're going to make america great again. there's people -- >> do you know what the best economic populist in america was franklin delano roosevelt. he didn't talk about poor people or immigrants or people of color and say, they're the problem. >> i believe he was -- >> no, that's -- >> but that's a better populism. >> i'm going to pause it there. you two are going to continue this debate in the green room after that anyway. thank you. the two strains of populism. later in the broadcast, the big news from our new poll from the two states you may have

heard of. a couple of them named iowa and new hampshire. first, the lengths some republicans are going to get out of the shadow of, yes, donald trump. >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you by morgan stanley, where capital creates change. hey terry stop they have a special! so, what did you guys think of the test drive? i love the jetta. but what about a deal? terry, stop! it's quite alright... ok, you know what? we want to make a deal with you. we're twins, so could you give us two for the price of one? come on, give us a deal. look at how old i am.

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. welcome back. with donald trump being, well, donald trump, the rest of the field for the republican nomination is having to contend

with a major problem. how to break through when trump is sucking up media attention like a black hole. well, let's start with ted cruz. he departed from accepted rules of behavior on the senate floor friday when he decided to call out his own majority leader, mitch mcconnell, over his position on the export/import bank. >> what we just saw today was an absolute demonstration that not only what he told every republican senator but what he told the press over and over and over again. was a simple lie. >> a liar. he called a fellow republican a liar. then there's rand paul, kentucky chainsaw massacre of the tax code, which paul says he'd like to simplify to just one page. let's not forget lindsey graham, who's been fielding a lot of extra calls after trump gave out his cell phone number. graham decided it was time for a new number and a phone upgrade.

so in a way to get some attention, he started a video showing some crowative ways to destroy his old flip phone. >> if all else fails, you can always give your number to the donald. this is for all the veterans. >> we'll be back with our latest poll numbers from iowa and new hampshire. good news for, yes, you guessed it, that guy that's sucking up all the attention, donald trump. [ school bell rings ] ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] everything kids touch at school sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox

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would they smell anything? the room itself was like [sniff] ahhh. feels like someone has pumped fresh oxygen into the room. on the last day we revealed everything. oooooohwoww. we were sitting right on it. febreze is stunningly effective. continuously eliminate odors for up to 45 days break out the febreze you plug in [inhale + exhale mnemonic] and breathe happy. ♪ ♪ nerd screen time. we are back with more numbers from our brand new poll out of iowa and new hampshire. the biggest story on the republican side, no surprise here, as donald trump would say my poll numbers are huge. so, let's start in iowa, where few figured where trump would be a major player here. guess what. trump has surged into second place behind wisconsin governor scott walker who edged him out by two points. the only other candidate in double digits is former florida governor jeb bush with 12%.

we have three tiers we have to cover with so many candidates. here's the second group of candidates in iowa. the ones in sort of mid-single digits. ben carson and mike huckabee lead this tier with 8% and 7% respectively. our next guest, john kasich rounding out things at 2%. the third tier are six other candidates who poll at 1% or less including someone who won the 2012 iowa caucuses, rick santorum. now let's move on to new hampshire where trump has surged all the way into the lead. he's sitting at 21%. again, it's the same three candidates with double digit support. bush is this time in second place with 14%, and walker is the one in third place. let's take a look at the second tier of candidates in new hampshire, though, and look who leads this tier. john kasich, 7%. one thing you may not know about kasich, he has tv advertising, $2 million, in new hampshire. the bottom in new hampshire

looks the same as the bottom in iowa with the same names at 2% or less. as you can see, we have to use carrots, we don't have "less than" signs when you have so many candidates on that front. sara fagan, our polling in both iowa and new hampshire was conducted a little before the mccain incident, and a little after. what's interesting is in iowa, trump's numbers actually went up post-incident. he was at 16% before, 18% after. in new hampshire, trump is after. after the incident he went down to 14%. trashing john mccain is bad politics in new hampshire still. >> it is bad politics in new hampshire. yes, donald trump has had a good couple weeks from a poll perspective, but he's at 20%. which means that 80% of republican voters are not for him right now.

and so he's sucking up a lot of oxygen, and there's a lot of noise in the system, but at the end of the day, he is not going to be the republican nominee. and that support is likely to go elsewhere, it a ted cruz or perhaps a rand paul. >> that's what i wanted to touch on, too. has he hit a ceiling at 20%? when you look at his negatives in new hampshire, he's up 53%. there's nowhere to go after 20% -- >> it's an improvement, though. >> he was at 65% and getting 14%. >> i was where you were. i would say, oh, yes, this is the peak. this is the end. every time we think -- i'm with you. >> first of all, again, this is not about trump. this man is more liberal than any bush and more slippery than any clinton, okay? if it was just on merits, he wouldn't be anywhere. but he's reflecting his anger and populism as you mentioned before. ross perot, who got 19% wasn't a credible man in a time that wasn't as tumultuous as our

times now. what if hughie long had the internet? trump is not going to win the nomination s my guess, but what he stands for is not going to go away. somebody else is going to tap it and it's not one of these two parties. >> i don't know if that's true. >> jose, it's interesting how he used you as a -- you asked him a question in lower raid dough -- >> i tried to ask him a question. >> i tried. he used you a way -- it probably pleased his supporters by beating you up. >> and pat buchanan talked about that perception of the invasion, right? >> which is what trump feeds off of. >> i was pointing out the invasion is within. the majority of immigration is u.s. born. i have breaking news for him, for all of you, which is, it's over. it's dangerous to start thinking of latinos as a demographic. 53% of america is either married to a latino, latino, living in a multicultural community,

sprinkle that on your wheaties or sprinkle that -- u.s.-born. >> vocal minority, as you said. >> we shouldn't discount the stylistic appeal of donald trump. take aside the issues. it's the authenticity, say it like it is, directness -- >> not scared. >> not scared, loud, proud. that appeals to people in a time when most people are sick and tired of politicians. >> bernie sanders, intellectual authenticity. donald trump, that sort of gut-level authenticity. when we come back, my interview with the latest candidate to enter the presidential race, ohio governor john kasich. but before we go to break wanted to show you some of those new pictures that have just been released by the national archives. all of these photos come from september 11, 2001.

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welcome back. there are now a sweet 16 set of candidates, officially in the race for the republican presidential nomination. and if you can name them all in ten seconds or less, well, kudos for you for being on the ball this sunday morning. the latest candidate to enter

the race is ohio governor john kasich. i sat down with him yesterday in michigan where he was campaigning and started by asking him whether it's harder for him to break through in the polls because he refrains from using hot rhetoric. >> oh, i think a chunk of it is hot rhetoric. the other part of it is, i'm a problem-solver. i'm not just going to make statements just to make them. you ever notice when people run for president, they never keep their word, they never keep their promises. because they make promises that are ridiculous. they don't know what they're talking about. running ohio -- this is a big, big state. this is an important start. but i solve problems. i'm balancing budgets, promoting school choice cutting taxes, deregulating so much of the silly laws we have in our state. >> you also do another counterintuitive thing. you do a lot of things talking up your experience in congress. a lot of people when they run for president, i don't care if

they're democrat, bill clinton, george w. bush, barack obama, they talk about they're going to come in there and clean up the mess that's washington. you're running on, no i have the experience to make washington work. how are you going to sell that so voters who don't like congress, who think congressional experience isn't worth a darn? >> we have to be careful what we think voters think. i think the voters want our system to work balance budgets, fix the fence, solve immigration problems. they want us to do many, many things. reform the health care system. so, they know there is great anger and antipathy between the parties. i don't think they want that to be the case. secondly, i can run on it because i spent ten years of my life trying to balance the federal budget. now when i say i was an architect, i feel like i'm talking about some sort of a fiction movie, you know, because people have a hard time believing it can be done. and then when it comes to the pentagon and the reform things we that we did, i'm very proud

of what i was able to do there and, chuck, now being a governor, an executive, i know what the problem is down there. and part of the reason i'm running is because i have the experience to know how to fix it up. can't fix it with hot rhetoric, one party. it has to be -- either we're in this to fix america or in this to get elected. someone said to me -- >> can you do both anymore? >> well, chuck, they say it's about electability. i say, no it's about capability. part of capability is electability. if we're running for these offices to get elected. we're not running for class president. we're running to be the commander in chief and the united states of america. grow up! >> biggest, tough tess foreign policy challenge for the next president. >> radical islam really is a giant -- >> that's number one. >> yes. i said all along, we should have a coalition, we should be there, including boots on the ground and we need to degrade and destroy isis. >> you would be sending more troops. >> i would have them in a role where they're going to be on the ground fighting.

you have the air power but you can't solve anything just with air power. i would be part of a coalition and i would take them down and begin to destroy -- -- >> it would include u.s. troops? >> yes. i said it months ago. every time i travel through ohio. i've been a part of focus groups. you talk to people. it's amazing to me ohioans in general, i'll say it across the spectrum, they're leery of trade deals, and they still blame nafta. you go to ohio, i don't even bring up nafta, and they immediately went to nafta and said, bad deal for ohio. >> the interesting thing is, there are now some car companies talking about moving things to mexico and they're citing nafta, and i'm going to dig into that. by and large, open trade is good for us. >> you were a nafta guy. >> yes. it's part of our ability -- >> tough thing to be in ohio. >> well, chuck, we're not in this to get elected. we're in this to do the right thing. aren't you tired -- forget it, i'm not doing those calculations. now, here's what i do believe. i think that we have in some ways been saps. i have a friend that ran a steel company.

i said do you think, koreans, for example, are dumping material and destroying our jobs? he said, yes. why don't we do something about it? he says, it takes two years to get a remedy, a solution. that is baloney. we need to have these decisions decided quickly because we can't have people coming in here dumping stuff and destroying our jobs in this country. that's where i grew up. i grew up with steel workers. what i would say to you is open trade, but we're not going to be saps. we're not going to look the other way when there's a problem. now, there are some people actually running for president now who think that no matter what happens, they're free traders. i'm not. i am not. i am for open trade, free trade, but i am for clamping down when the united states worker gets shafted because somebody is cheating on a trade agreement. >> you brought up mexico, so let's go to immigration. the senate comprehensive compromise on immigration reform. what did you make of it? would you have supported it? >> i don't know what the details are. i support a guest worker program

expanded so people can come in and then go home. sale the border. there are some interest groups that don't want the border to be sealed. >> what does seal the border mean, though? and how do you do it? >> you do it with fencing and you do it with technology, drones and sensors and duncan hunter over there in san diego has significantly reduced the number of people coming across the border because of his initiatives on fencing. do as best you can there. i've been told by grown-ups, real experts that, you know, most of this can be done and can be done effectively. guest worker program, the 12 million that are here? >> right. >> if they violated the law, they go out or go to jail. if they're hard working, god-fearing, family people, go to church, they work with us, let them stay. >> you said violating the law, though. some say just being here that's violating the law and that should be held against them. >> they have to pay a fine and a penalty for the fact they violated the law. if they're part of our culture now and society and they're doing fine, they're hard working, they go -- they're just

like all of us. then i think they can stay. i have learned over the course of my lifetime, you need some degree of bipartisan cooperation and just think back to ronald reagan and tip o'neill. i mean, they were working together when it was to serve america. that's what i think we need. a good dose of that. >> one of the things do i in first interviews with candidates, we have a deal with facebook and we have a facebook-specific question. this comes from -- let me get it right here. this comes from grant. simple question, governor kasich, why did you give up the challenge against unions when your governor to the north in wisconsin did not? >> our initiatives were different. secondly, when you get really beaten on something and the public speaks clearly, you got to listen to them. okay? frankly, in my state, we now have very good relations with organized labor. >> let me ask a question about trump that you asked about trump. this came from you back in 2004.

>> well, okay then. >> you were asking a celebrity a prenaparen apprentice. your question was this, and what about this fascination with donald trump? it doesn't seem to be abating? what the heck is the deal with this? i know we're a big celebrity culture? what's the deal with this guy. that was your question. >> that's really good. >> answer your own question. what do you make of this? >> no, no. i asked somebody. >> i know. what was their answer because i'm not getting into that. >> he's larger than life, is what he said. >> he's just fascinating. >> chuck -- >> what is your read on this? >> i don't really pay any attention to it. >> i understand that. >> i don't have a read on it. i'm not talking about him. >> the preannouncement video for you from new day for america, your superpac on july 19th that in here that sort of made me raise my eyebrow, describing your bio, said kasich worked in the real world as a commentator

on fox and financing in ohio. do you think most americans would say your experience on fox -- >> yeah, somebody else pointed out -- it was a great experience, yeah. it's real world. >> but not what americans -- >> let me tell you what the real world is. you get bad ratings and you're not going to be doing "meet the press." >> there's no doubt. >> okay. it's part of it. the real world for me is i had about five different jobs. i worked at lehman brothers where i traveled the country, meeting with entrepreneurs and business leaders, i served on a few boards. i taught -- people don't know this. i taught at three universities on a part-time basis. my dad was a mailman -- >> a lot of people think that's the real world. >> well, it is, it's a real world. look, in my mind's eye, it's the people i grew up with. working in the steel mills, working in the chemical plants -- >> rather than being a political pundit on fox. >> well, it's part of the world. >> my world. >> i wouldn't really say the working people -- >> yeah. >> kasich is one of those candidates who could surge in new hampshire, so keep an eye on him. quick reminder if you can't watch "meet the press" live on

sunday mornings you can catch us on demand. dvr us, season pass, whatever your machine makes you do, do it, that way even if it isn't sunday, it's still "meet the press." coming up, our "end game" segment. we'll be focusing on the planned parenthood videos. what's the bigger story, the content or the tactic used? stay tuned for "end game" brought to you by boeing. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla apremilast. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts,

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>> announcer: time now for "meet the press" "end game" brought to you by boeing with a drive to build something better inspires us every day. >> announcer: time now for "meet the press" "end game" brought to you by boeing with a drive to build something better inspires us every day. it's "end game." we have a lot of news and politics that slips through the cracks. i wanted to talk about a couple of controversial videos that came out. a group of anti-abortionist videos, that released undercover videos. in the edited videos, the actors posing as tissue buyers describe the process of donating tissue from aborted fetuses with top doctors from planned parenthood. there's a portion from one of those videos. >> we've been very good at getting heart, hung, liver. >> in statements planned parenthood called the group's claims that it profits off tissue donations outrageous and the group are a bunch of extremists. but planned parenthood president has also apologized for the

doctor's tone and statements in that video. abortion gets everybody to stiffen their spine a little bit. amy walter, the tactic here is fascinating, a very aggressive tactic. the content is obviously very gruesome. what's bigger here, the content or the tactic? >> i think the bigger story is when we talk about abortion rights oftentimes we're sort of up on this plane up here. it's very theoretical. >> not about the actual procedure. >> planned parenthood is correct. they're not profiting on them. they're pretty much donating tissue for research. >> but they're -- >> they're not donates -- >> they're haggling -- >> they're haggling over price to pay for is what it was. the bigger issue -- hold on. let me finish. i think that's the issue. once you start getting into the details of this. you're talking about crushing. talking about tissues, you're talking about human beings, then it gets to be a much more difficult, visceral content.

>> tactic or content. >> this is a content problem. let's describe what these two medical doctors, senior officials at planned parenthood are describing, which is the extraction of an infant, which infanticide, crushing below -- below the lungs, above the heart. by the way, illegal in the united states, and selling them. that's what they have described -- >> it's want illegal to do that. it's illegal to sell it for profit. >> to sell it for profit. >> separate from the issue of abortion that brings up so many different sentiments in people. when you see the unedited version you see over and over again the official was saying that they weren't in it for profit, they weren't going to be haggling the price. separate from that, to watch someone as they're eating a lunch or dinner talking about making a fetus less crunchy, it's just very uncomfortable to watch that. >> any time -- to answer your question -- >> sorry.

>> any time an institution makes it about the tactics, you know the issue is the content. in this case a lot of people in this country who are against abortion, period. a lot of people say women's right to choose, period. a lot of america is ambivalent about it. when you have a video like this it makes it impossible for americans to have the kind of emotional and political, psychological distance from abortion that planned parenthood has to have. this put abortion right in our faces. >> one unifying moment for republican field, sara. it's the one thing that has unified jeb bush and the rest -- donald trump and everybody as they're attacking each other like crazy. >> not just the field. every republican. i think this is going to be a huge issue this fall. there will be congressional hearings and every democrat has to answer what they're going to with the money they accepted from planned parenthood. >> amy, in 2012 defunding planned parenthood worked against republicans. it was a wedge.

it's almost as if the conservative movement said, oh, yeah? we're going to take away the planned parenthood wedge from you. can they do that? >> it's a war on women -- >> is this a crisis moment for planned parenthood where they're whole organization is at risk here? >> given what the republicans in congress and the ones on the campaign trail are talking about, there's a very serious movement there now. listen, they got support from enough democrats, the president, that they will not be defunded. >> nothing is going to -- the perception issue -- >> if i was advising planned parenthood, stop taking money for tissue. if you donate it, donate it. >> i saw -- >> just donate it. don't take money to them and argue -- >> i saw some scientist say, you know what? planned parenthood doesn't need to be in this. they don't -- >> this is not morally ambiguous. it's wrong. americans understand this is wrong. this signed a big light on the practices that these folks find acceptable. and it disgusts most people. >> does it bring the abortion issue into the political square in the general election, jose, or does this become more of a

primary fight? >> it's a visceral issue. i think it re-affirms your position one way or another. again, if you remove that position, watching someone eating a salad as they're talking about that is very difficult. >> by the way, success on -- i got to wrap it up. the success on this issue as a tactic point, i think you'll see other political groups left and right say, you know what, be damned, ends justifies means. >> i can -- >> we got to go. i got to let you go. we'll do it on periscope. i promise you. that's all for today. we'll be back next week. because, if its's sunday, it's "meet the press." for today. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." "caught on camera: terror at sea." cruise ships run aground. >> it was an actual scene out of

the "titanic" movie. >> and vacationers fight for their lives. >> rocking the boat. please, don't rock this. >> when a barge mows down a boat full of sightseers. >> my poor little daughter didn't have any idea what to do. >> a tourist is blasted by a rogue wave. and a day trip turns disastrous. these unsuspecting victims all struggle to keep their heads above water.