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. scotland is having the women's british open. for years i was going to go to this tournament. now i'm going to put it down for a day and a half or something. i feel an obligation to do it. it's the biggest tournament i think in women's golf. it's a tremendous -- one of the biggest tournaments in golf. i'm going to go there very quickly, day and a half, two days. i'll be back immediately. i have to be who i am. you know these other people i know they all have their debate coaches and they all have their pollsters and they don't say anything without the pollsters knowing exactly and they pay the pollsters hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. i watch mitt romney where he

locked himself in a cabin for a week and he came in for the second and third debate and he wasn't able to speak, something happened to him. it wasn't a good picture. barack obama, he studied and where he wasn't great either. i would say that certainly he was horrible on the first debate and not good in the second two but romney was not good. so i am going to be donald trump. if i'm not donald trump, it's not going to look good. >> that's very interesting. welcome to "morning joe." mark halperin 6:00 a.m. right at the top. new national poll that we're crashing, what do you have? >> trump is at 20 and walker at 13%, bush at 10%. no one else above 6%. so trump another national lead. >> trump first, walker second. bush third. >> and once again he tops everybody in some people saying no way would they vote for him. 30% said they would never vote for him.

>> that was 60% not so long ago. >> that's right. >> it's 30% now. we have mike barnicle with us. mark halperin has great focus groups. >> yes. >> very excited about those. >> this is amazing. coming up soon -- >> this will really there are so many analysts and editorial writers and directors that have come on and really right sized us about this. and i think that these polls will back them up. >> so wrong for so long mika. >> yeah. >> we have been. >> so it's over. >> it's over for us. >> we want to go to new hampshire and say what do people there who like trump think? why do they like him? are they a john mccain said, crazy? >> no. he talked to a group of new hampshire voters. we look for people who were supporters of people like mitt romney four years ago. people who vote in the republican primaries and they are so articulate so on point about why they like trump. >> let me be articulate about

something. we were playing this before 7:00. so bloomberg, you figure out what you want to do with that. in washington we also have pulitzer prize winning editorial -- and we'll never play another focus group again. >> okay. >> jonathan capehart and former governor of vermont and form chairman of the democratic national committee howard dean. speaking of polls, a shock poll out of florida. >> the florida republican primary shows trump ahead of both jeb bush and senator marco rubio in their home state. trump leads 26 to 20. >> let's just stop for a second. i heard a wow. >> yeah. >> howard it was not so long ago that we were going mork yoe or jeb? marco or jeb? >> yeah. i'm not surprised by this at all. this is something we'll look back on say it's a high mark of trumpism or it was the gunning of the end of some of these florida candidates.

>> this is a shocker. the reason it's such a shocker is one of the reasons the polls are so weird at this time of a presidential campaign is because nobody really knows anybody. so they don't mean much. donald trump can get big numbers. but these two politicians are jeb bush and marco rubio are known and well respected in the republican -- certainly in the republican party in florida. this is an absolute shocker. and it is somewhat worrying for the republicans. one thing to have donald trump leading a national poll and nobody really knows who else is running. it's another thing to do it in a state who are among the leading contenders for the nomination. this is a stunner. i'd love to know what you think about this. i can't get over this. >> unfortunately i'm not surprised. >> i'm surprised that everyone is so surprised. >> i said for some time that it was probably going to be at the

end of the day jeb or marco for a lot of different reasons. trump had a lot of -- there's bnt trump effect. a huge impact has been what it's done to all these, well they were first tier candidates. i have to call them second tier candidates now. what it's done to ted cruz and marco, what it's done to rand paul. he has sucked the heart and support out of a lot of candidates that we were talking about really seriously a month or two ago. >> he had to help jeb bush. everybody else is frozen in place. >> but jeb just keeps collapsing. i mean we had a poll last week out of new hampshire. he's being doubled here. trump's beating him. i see you smiling. i'm sure that jeb people are smug about it all. i'd be worried now.

>> being ahead doesn't mean you'll be the nominee. jeb doesn't need help raising money. some other candidates are going to struggle to raise money. some others will struggle to learn how to be a presidential candidate under the spotlight. jeb bush does not have either of those problems. trump has florida ties. you look at who is the governor of florida? a wealthy businessman outsider. trump is a great fit for florida because of his message. >> jeb bush though owned florida for eight years. most popular politician down there. mike barnicle, it's just, again, this is just one poll. but it's more indicative of a lot of other polls that show donald trump is just pounding the republican field right now. >> it's one poll in july a year before the election but the bottom line on the poll is donald trump is not going away. he has taken all of the oxygen out of the room for several of the republican candidates. this is home state of a former governor, jeb bush and sitting united states senator marco rubio. and the amazing thing is that

trump, despite what we say about him, despite what he does to himself sometimes an tv and the clips that we show, i think the focus group will probably prove the point when we see it. if you stand in the back of a hall with any candidate, trump, any candidate and watch for people who nod their heads as that candidate speaks donald trump has more heads nodding than any of the other candidates. >> it is july. you look four years ago, we said it at the time. newt is in first place one week. then he's down. michelle bachmann is in first place, then she's down. herman cane is first place then down. can you go on and on through all the candidates. this is not 2012 and donald trump is not michelle batch man.chmann yet his numbers keep growing.

i guess the question now that people are having that say he'll have no impact on the racethat ended up being unbelievably wrong. what dynamic changes things? what can donald trump do to himself to actually start losing numbers? and that's the big guessing game now. i don't see what it is right now. >> i don't either. i think that's the point. i think that nobody knows what to do with him and there were some of us early on who this that instinct. i had a similar instinct completely different situation about candidate obama. everyone laughed and scoffed anded isand ed is and said no way. never going to make it. and the republican party, i said it to you. the republican party did not know what to do with him. and the chips all fell in his direction. >> i'll tell you what will bring him down a story about alleged sexual assault or front page "new york times" story about making fun of a woman of her breast -- wait both those

happened. he plays by different rules. and he's a warrior at a time when the country might have a bush-clinton general election. he is the most forceful outsider in the race. >> okay. >> howard nobody is getting carried away. we're just saying that for a month or two we've had people saying donald trump is going to have in impact whatsoever. yet a lot of people very scuffle around this set. so all we're saying is ---en that is-- and that is the question. what brings him down? >> here's what could bring him down which has nothing to do about front page stories. first of all this is a stunning poll. in a state where these two guys are well known, this shows something about jeb bush's weakness which i'm very surprised. very surprised at. and marco rubio. but here's what could bring him down. we don't know if he has a field organization. you cannot win in iowa without a field organization. and so you can do -- you can be in first place in july in the

polls and i think you are all right. this is far beyond anything any of us thought donald trump was going to get to. this is a big deal this poll in florida. but he still has to have an on the ground field organization to win iowa. if he doesn't have one, he's not going to win iowa. >> so then the question is not really awhat brings him down it's what brings any of the other candidates up. >> right. >> and what i'm asking -- >> i'm not suggesting that there is something that's going to bring him down. i suspect it will be self inflicted wound. if it's anything. but donald trump plays by different rules. >> you mean if he says something really outrageous like attacks a war hero. eventually there will be negative ads run against him. but it's pretty clear this guy has been, i mean he's been attacked for years. he plays by different rules. i talked yesterday to two people from other candidates who have a

lot going on -- a lot of stake in eye ichlt they say trump's people are organizing in iowa. that they see trump's people organizing events. this is not a lark. he's not running to help his business. he's not running for fun. he thinks he's going to be president. he's doing the things he needs to do to get lekt edelected. >> "the washington post" met with ed rollins in new york. rollins managed president reagan's 1984 re-election campaign advised ross perot in 1992 and more recently mike huckabee and michelle bachmann. atop nearly every recent poll donald is a lock on the debate stage. john weaver an adviser to the ohio governor says the campaign believes he will be in the debate even if he's currently missing the cutoff. weaver recently tweeted, imagine a nascar driver mentally preparing for a race knowing one of the drivers will be drunk.

that's what is happening for this debate. >> jonathan capehart that would be a nervous night in nascar race. >> and it's a great description. mark has -- in his comments has been dropping his little things that trump has done. it would have blown up anyone else's campaign. granted, i was one of those people who said that when he -- when trump said what he said about senator mccain that his campaign was done. because who ever heard of a presidential candidate denigrating the service of a war hero a former prison of war who is still in the race? and so -- >> jonathan. it wasn't just you, jonathan. i mean it was a guy like pete wayner who is a -- i have great respect for, love his columns.

he is spot on most of the time. trump is toast. "the new york times," "the washington post." >> i can't think of someone who didn't. >> i remember you telling me that you thought that this -- that he might need to apologize. this might be it as well. >> oh, absolutely. >> and you've been right about trump more times than not. but people don't really seem to hold him by the same standards they hold mere politicians. and mark halperin is here with the focus group out of new hampshire. >> i'm sure this will bring him down. you hear from real people in new hampshire, not us. >> washington establishment, meet me at camera three. this is new hampshire republicans who many of whom have voted for establishment candidates john heilemann was up there yesterday in manchester and said why do you like donald trump. their answers will surprise you. >> he speaks the truth. >> and what truth is that? >> when he talks about especially immigration control and the border.

he really -- he doesn't care what people think. >> unchoreographed. >> he is honest. >> i like his roughness and little reaganesque. >> he's not a politician. >> he's not going to be like he said, i won't be bought off. >> trump is a threat. >> yep. >> because he doesn't if i in the same box all the other republicans are in. >> he's like one of us. he may be a millionaire and separates him from everybody else, but beside the money issue, he's in tune with what everyone is wanting. >> when he referred to some illegal immigrants as rapist did that bother people? didn't bother people? what was your reaction to that? or did you not really notice it? >> i didn't bother me. >> i didn't notice it. >> didn't bother me. >> he said he'll put a wall down on the southern border. whether you talk about common sense, that's a kmons sensecommon sense thing to do. >> i knew he was a wealthy successful man and i remember asking my mother if i could write him a letter. >> even as a young kid, the word trump meant rich?

>> it meant success. >> i think he's a successful person. >> he's successful. i want to be a billionaire. >> he worked hard. >> tell me when you think a trump presidency would look like? >> classy. >> nice to see that deck clak going clock going the other way. >> i think we could be a proud american. >> a presidency of hope. >> that is incredible. >> wow. >> so let's see, aspirational successful. >> just like me but a billionaire. >> one of us. talk about your first cam pam campaign and what you learned. >> this is incredible. >> i learned that when candidates walked into a room they didn't have to say anything. that once they -- because we were all unknowns. a lot of times you walk in a room and stood there and people can figure out if you were one of them, whether you got them or whether you were a member of

the establishment. i was stunned. stunned going through that first process. it made no sense to other people. like for instance that one person that when roman said he's one of us. he's mocked and ridiculed about it establishment. he's dismissed. everybody says he's a joke. everybody says there is no way he can win. everybody is ticking him around in the papers every day. he fights back. he's one of us. one of the most shocking comments out of this focus group that people will be -- scratching their heads about. let me go really quickly to howard dean and then to mike. talk about how people get you. and it's not -- you walk into a room in vermont. you just stand there a certain way and people get you or they don't. they think you're one of them or

they don't. and it doesn't matter whether you're a doctor lawyer whatever. >> you're right. and this is the big thing that washington folks miss. voters vote on how they feel. they don't vote on issues. they vote the core values. they feel the values when they meet you and see you. they can do it on television. some politicians come across better on television than others. when you go to that room you look around. you go over to shake somebody's hand. they can tell right away whether you're a politician or one of them. that was a stunning focus group. i guess we'll all have to be more humble about donald trump's prospect for the next couple weeks until he says something outrageous again. >> that was a stunning focus group. >> a stunning poll. >> a lot of people voting democratic in the past independence. a lot -- i saw a lot of new hampshire independence in there.

>> sure. half of them from massachusetts, too. >> maybe the key, you pick this up when you see donald trump in action is he is unlike all the other candidates. he is approachable in a way that none of the other candidates are. you meet any of the other candidates and it's governor how are you? senator, how are you? it's donald to a voter. there is no distance between donald trump and the average voter. absolutely. there are a lot of people again, how many people in that focus group probably had a boss they couldn't stand and shot their mouth off and the boss said they couldn't stand got in trouble. >> if you're in a corner if you're in a fight and you mind the voters and the focus groups. who would you want in the fight? >> yeah.

and we can talk about whether donald trump will be a great president or not. i will tell you this though on a gut level. take everybody in there. if i had a busy wanted to run, if i wanted a negotiation i wanted to run on real estate or something else high level, i wouldn't go to most of the people in this field. >> interesting how the people in the group talk about the other candidates. particularly about jeb bush and how they don't want -- >> what do they say about jeb? >> another bush. we don't want another bush. we don't like dynasties. it's too much like the kennedys. we don't want one family dominated. what would a trump presidency be like? classy. that's not what the establishment thinks. everyone in that room had the same attitude. trump would be an aggressive classy president. and again, the establishment has to understand that because right now they're just thinking of him as a joke rather than someone who has for those new hampshire voters people in florida, a quarter of the electorate nationally in the republican field thinks trump is the answer to what ails america right now.

>> jonathan capehart what was your take on that focus group? >> i was stunned. i was stunned. i was stunned by what i heard. michael steele has been saying for a long time we have to stop focusing on the messenger and start focusing on the people following the message. and thanks to heilman and halperin we now hear trump supporters and why they support him. and what i'm curious about now is, okay so they're all reacting to what he's been saying in his announcement speech and in the speeches in south carolina and elsewhere where he speaks in generalities when he's not putting down one of the other candidates. i wonder what those people will think when if he's ever pushed to present actual policies and ideas and plans to turn those

general things that he says about dealing with china, dealing with iran bringing jobs back to america, what are those specific plans? and will those same people still like him? >> people do not vote on the specifics, the white papers that candidates write, they're all for editorial boards and smart reporters and inside the beltway people. people vote on what joe is talking about, on guts on their feel for people. i have to say, i have to stop making fun of donald trump for a while. >> let's talk about this. >> you and i could go to neutral state. and i think you'll agree with me. i could run in vermont and you could run in florida, whatever. forget about the ideology and everything else. i agree with you completely. it is got -- 50% of the people that came up to me after i won said i'm a democrat. i don't agree with you.

i know you go up to washington you're going to say exactly what you think. if i need you to fight for me you're going to fight for me. and i learned -- i was a very ideological guy. but howard like you, it's not about ideology. it's not about position papers. for the most part it is a gut decision based on instinct by the voter. and it is a very gut instinct. >> yeah i just think this is the day that i think the washington establishment better look seriously at donald trump. a guy that has 23% in a field of 16 that's a guy who's going to be in this race for a lot longer than i thought. >> coming up on "morning joe" -- >> by the way, we're going to play that again at 6:30. >> that focus group is stunning. >> i want to play it right now if we had time. i really want to watch it again.

>> we're going to play it at 6:30. >> there is something in water in rio. reports of watter that swimmers will be in during the olympics is badly contaminated. plus two of the republican candidates for president first george pataki will be here on set and then rick perry joins the table. we'll have the latest on the cincinnati officer indicted for murder and the story of an off duty detective who told a driver something horrific. >> he said i'll put a hole in your head and the kid was just sitting there. >> what's going on? we'll be right back. [dad]i wear a dozen different hats doing small gigs,side gigs...gig gigs. quickbooks self-employed helps me get ready for tax time. to separate expenses,i just swipe. it's one hat i don't mind wearing. [passenger] i work for me. and so does quickbooks. it estimates my taxes,so i know how much stays in my pocket. and that's how i own it. [announcer]stay in the flow with quickbooks self-employed. start your free,thirty-day trial today

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a university of cincinnati police officer who shot and killed an unmarked black man is set to go before a judge this morning. the court appearance comes one day after an ohio grand jury indicted ray tensing on charges of murder in the death of sam dubose. they released video from the officer's own body camera shot

during the incident nearly two weeks ago. nbc's ann thompson has the story. i want to warn you, it could be disturbing for some. >> reporter: the final moments of 23-year-old sam dubose's life captured on the body camera of the officer now accused of his murder. >> hey, how is it going? >> do you have a license on you? >> yeah. what happened? >> reporter: university of cincinnati officer ray tensing stopped him for not having a front license plate. he said it's if the glove box. do you have a license on you? >> dubows doesn't produce the license. >> reporter: the bottle says gin but he said it holds no liquor. several time he asked him for his license and then something happens. >> okay. >> i have to figure out if you have a license or not. take your seat belt off for me. >> i didn't do nothing. >> go ahead and take your seat belt off. >> stop, stop! >> reporter: less than two

minutes after' proechd, tensing fires a single shot hitting him in the head killing dubose as the car starts to move. he chases after the car and another officer arrives. >> he purposely killed him. >> reporter: in the bluntest of terms, the hamilton county prosecutor calls dubose's death senseless. >> this is the most asinine look i have ever seen a police officer make. he wasn't dealing with someone who was wanted for murder. okay? he was dealing with someone who didn't have a front license plate. >> reporter: the video appears to contradict tensing's story that he was being dragged by the car and had to fire his weapon. tensing's attorney says there is a second tape that shows his client was on the ground. >> that he felt like his life was in danger. >> reporter: tensing is 25. he's been an officer for four years. full time with the university of cincinnati since last year. the stop was made off campus but allowed under a mutual agreement with the city. for the dubose family --

>> seeing that video let me know that my son did absolutely nothing. >> reporter: both the dubose family and city officials are calling for call tom avoid the repeat of riots after a officer shot and killed an unarmed black man. an attempt to keep the focus on justness in the death of sam dubose. >> his family said he just got engaged the day before. here's i had mother yesterday. >> did you see in your heart to forgive this person this officer, whether he's convicted or not? >> if he asks forgiveness, oh, yeah. i can forgive him. i can forgive anybody. god forgave us. see, god is almighty. >> you know what? this is about -- we talked about body cameras, mike. you know what? right now we would be trying to

figure out exactly what happened. and there would be stories about what happened here and you would hear that somebody you know abusive and fighting and reach for this or. that the body camera tells the tale. >> the cop's own body camera tells the tale and it refutes the tale that the cop originally told. that he was being dragged by the car. he was not being dragged by the car. he clearly had his gun out for a stop for a missing license plate. there was a conversation ensued for at least a couple minutes on the tape as you watch it. and then what happens happened -- we just saw, within five seconds when the individual starts his car and begins to pull away. boom. within five seconds he shot and killed that man. >> "new york times" quotes a criminologist at the university of cincinnati john heck who says before this he was a body camera skeptic. now he changed his mind. now to this story from the

"boston globe." we've been saying it nonstop. the only people that body cameras hurt are bad cops. massachusetts detective is on addministrateive leave after he told a driver he would put a hole in his head. the video was captured about it driver's dash cam. here's how the scene unfolded after the detective who was off duty at the time pulled over the driver. [ beep ] >> i didn't know you were coming. >> i'll put a hole right through your head. >> okay. okay. okay. >> pull over. >> did that guy look like a cop? >> no. i mean come on. >> he's off duty. this is not the first encounter he's had within the police department i'm told. with anger issues.

he clearly has an anger issue. he clearly should not have a badge. >> the exchange -- >> and by the way, if a guy is walking like that screaming at me looking like that i'm not going to pull back. i'm driving off. >> oh, yeah. >> exactly. all right. the exchange continued after the driver agreed to move his vehicle and the driver has reportedly not yet posted any video showing the actual incident which the detective demanded he hand over on tape. >> wow. >> coming up on the must read opinion pages and more from that stunning focus group. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ ♪ no student's ever been the king of the campus on day one. but you're armed with a roomy new jansport backpack, a powerful new dell 2-in-1 laptop and durable new stellar notebooks,

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comcast business. built for business. joining us now, jay norlinger. for full disclosure he is a close friend of senator ted cruz and backs the texas republican for president. and jay writes the national news cover story on car leely fiorina. >> but that story has been trumped by this focus group. you said something about donald trump populous. a little surprised. >> well he's an odd kind of person to catch pop lust fire right? he is a new yorker real estate

tycoon tycoon. he was born to a smaller tycoon. he made a fortune. he lives a rare existence in pent house suites and private jets an exist thaens people with scarcely comprehend or imagine. and he's the people's tribune. he's the darling of the moment. i would have not expected it. >> fdr, baby. fdr. >> let's see that focus group of the new hampshire voters. >> he speaks the truth. >> what truth is that? >> when he talks about especially immigration control and the border he really -- he doesn't care what people think. >> unchoreographed. >> he is honest. >> i like his roughness and a little reaganesque. >> he's not a politician. >> he's not going to be -- like he said, won't be bought off. >> trump is not in the same box all the other republicans are

in. >> he's one of us. he may be a millionaire that separates him from everybody else, beside the money issue, he is still in tune with what everybody is wanting. >> when he referred to some illegal immigrants as rapist dshgs that bother people? didn't bother people? or did you not notice it? >> didn't bother me. >> didn't notice. >> didn't bother me. >> he said he'll put a wall on the southern border. when you talk about common sense, that's common sense thing to do. >> i knew that he was a wealthy successful man. i remember asking my mother if i could write him a letter to ask him how he made his money so i could do it, too. >> even as a very young kid, the word trump sort of meant rich to you? >> it meant success. >> i think he's a successful person. >> he's successful. i want to be a billionaire. >> how can i begrudgeon that? he worked hard. >> tell me when you think a trump presidency would look like? >> classy. >> it would be nice to seat deck clock going the other way.

>> i think we can be be a proud america again. >> it will be a presidency of hope. >> one of us. tom wicker of course wrote that book on richdard nixon, one of those. those are three powerful words. and stunning right now the washington establishment as you say and the manhattan establishment is sitting mouth agape at those responses. >> yeah. these are new hampshire voters giving voice to what we see in the polls. >> are these buchanan voters? >> no. question asked specifically in term of recruiting, five people voted for mitt romney. other voted for other establishment candidates. we're hearing from voices of people who maybe are not involved in politics or on the fringe. >> these are republican establishment voters. they voted for romney that voted mccain that, voted for -- >> a lot of them. and they find a guy that lives on fifth naveavenue on a pent house environment to be accessible and

their representative. and they talked about trump, you saw in the clip there, they like him personally. they feel comfortable with him, inspired by him. >> mike you were yesterday out talking to somebody that you've known for some time who is a very successful person. and you were just scratching your head about it. you said you had known trump for a long time. what did he tell you? >> this is a major executive in the world of professional sports in this country. and he was asking about donald trump's candidacy, chances, blah, blah blah. i asked him how well he knew trump. he said i've known him for quite some time. he's one of the nicest kindest people i've ever met which gives life to the fact that all the candidates everyone we meet actually in life he is more than just a one dimensional cartoon figure. there's a lot of dimensions to everyone. but certainly a lot of

dimensions to donald trump. >> and there are a lot of other people. i can tell a lot of stories. the trump hour of power. but i can tell a lot of stories of other people who for no reason while the cameras weren't on while nobody was looking, donald trump helped. and expected absolutely nothing in return. he's a very complex person. and a complex problem for the republican establishme in. t ted cruz is struggling everybody is struggling. he sucked all the oxygen out of the room. is this a danger for the republican party? >> i suppose it is. i think that focus group was telling. he is a character. he's an interesting personality. he's different. i also think that he embodies a kind of backlash against political correctness. he says things you're not supposed to say. and that thrill people. even thrilled me a bit. sometimes a lot.

>> you are thrilling. >> at this hour this is the best i can do. i'd like to play golf with donald trump. >> there is that would you want to have a beer. >> who you would like to fly in a 757 with? carly, you wrote the cover story on carly fiorina. she was starting to move up in the polls. before the trump surge. and it's flattened out a little bit. i wonder if donald trump business person takes away from carly business person? >> maybe. trump will have legs that will last in the caucuses and primaries. i thought this would be a summer story, a sum brer themer before the election year the phoney war before the real war. and i thought trump might have been an amusing memory by the

time people started to vote in ohio and new hampshire. >> i guess you're not alone. >> i guess i shouldn't place a bet. >> the second time you look at the focus group, it's a bit more jarring than even the first time. >> oh, yeah. i want to repeat something i said early cher is it does come down to organization. n. eye in iowa. he is now a serious candidate until iowa. and then we're going to see. the next step that a serious candidate has to do is have a really, good meticulous organization. that is why barack obama beat hillary clinton, his organization -- her organization was very good. his was, i've never seen anything like it and it will be a long time before we see anything like it again. so it's -- if he wins in iowa he's going to -- that's going to be the end for about half of the field right there. >> oh, my god. >> and so i don't know how he doesn't have staying power. but he must have really good organization in iowa. that is the next big test. we are -- we see now it's almost impossible for him to destroy himself no matter what he seems to say. i suppose he could think of

something really outrageous. but it is -- i must say this is a stunning thing for me to see. incredible. >> collecting the e-mail addresses in the contact information. he's barely spent any money to organize this yet but he's doing it. that's a the love advantage for a guy first in the polls. >> jay, jay in ordernordlinger. >> we can set up a golf game. >> carly is carly. i call her the most famous carly since simon. >> all right. we'll get you back to talk about carly again. >> up next with sanctions lifted what leverage if any does the u.s. still have over iran? former ambassador nick burns led the bush administration's approach to tehran and he joins us next.

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government document. the ayatollahs know what they agreed to. >> because we respect the process of the iaea and we don't have the authorization to reveal a confidential agreement between them and another country. >> so the ayatollahs will know what they agreed to but the not the american people? >> well the -- no. not exactly. because we will share with you in the classified briefing what we understand the contents to be. they negotiated the agreement with the iaea. >> that is secretary john kerry and senator tom cotton yesterday. with us from capitol hill professor of diplomacy from the harvard kennedy school of government former ambassador nicholas burns. he led the bush administration's effort in dealing with iran. where are we right now, nick? tough days for john kerry on the hill. >> well i think it's a tough environment on capitol hill. i testified twice. i met with a lot of members. i think you'll be shocked to know that politics is playing part of this. i talked to a lot of republicans. i haven't talked to a single one who supports the deal. the democrats are fairly muted.

and i think the administration puts the case forward. but they've got a long way to go. the vote won't happen until after labor day. >> you say the democrats are muted. are they afraid to get out too far in front of this deal? >> i would say there are very few democrats saying we're in support of this deal. they're holding back. they're asking questions. and so when you're inside the committee rooms, the republicans are the more valuable part of the debate. and they're very organized. and the republicans are trying to make the case that this deal can be essentially amended by the congress. congress can vote to change the deal. and there won't be consequences. when i testified yesterday before the foreign relations committee, i said i didn't think that will be possible. it's essentially a take it or leave it deal because it was negotiated for 18 months. there were eight parties to it. and if congress votes to disapprove or if congress tries

to put amendments on this or forces the administration to change major provisions i think it's pretty clear what will happen. the iranians will walk away and, therefore, you won't have the restrictions on their nuclear program. i think also this group that we're part of you know with the europeans, russians and chinese will begin to fray a little bit. and the sanctions regime will begin to unravel. so you got to weigh if congress votes, does it disapprove congress has a right to do. that but there are real consequences. i think iran ends up as the winner of that debate. >> all right. >> nick just to be clear, you support the deal correct? >> oh, i support the deal. yes, i do. >> so what elements would there be within the agreement between the iaea and iran that we don't know about? what elements within that would upset you if you found out about it? >> hopefully nothing. but we don't know until we know right? and i think this is a problem for the administration. the produce that iaea has with

all of the countries it works with including us is it doesn't dif you will divulge to other aspects of the regime. what i think the opponents are really aiming at is are the inspections going to be strong enough? will there be enough inspectors on the ground? and what are the specific details? and so at some point i think the administration is going to have to find a way on a classified basis to brief congress on this. >> jonathan capehart? >> senator burns, let me ask you, how much daujmage would be done to the united states if this deal were to unravel? >> well, i think -- i see this as a very complicated agreement. there are a lot of benefits to us. there are some risks here. i don't think this is an easy vote. that's what i advise members yesterday. the risk is this, jonathan. this deal freezes the iranians for 10 to 15 years. they have been on a roll for the past ten years. they have driven forward to become a nuclear threshold state. this really knocks them back in the continuum.

i think that's a real value to the united states. so if the deal unraflzfles, if congress votes to disapprove the president's plan then i think we are the short term loser because the eyeiranians don't have any shackles. they can go forward with the plutonium processing. we're worse off and we don't have -- i don't think we'll be able to hold together this big international coalition where every major economy in the world has been sanctioning iran. so i think that is really what's at stake here in this congressional vote. >> all right. ambassador nicholas burns, thank you for being on the show. see you soon. >> pleasure. still ahead this morning, america's lead negotiator on the iran deal wendy sherman, will join us. she went toe to toe with iran. we'll explain what's really in the agreement. when you do business everywhere, the challenges of keeping everyone working together can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help.

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still ahead, donald trump not only leads in the latest national poll, there are new numbers out of florida that should have jeb bush and marco rubio worried. plus, more from the stunning reactions from new hampshire. voters there talk about what they think of trump. we'll bring in john hil maneilemann who conducted the focus group. and george pataki and rick perry join us live this morning. this guy first roamed the earth over 65 million years ago. like our van. yeah. we need to sell it.

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so what do do you if you're this guy? this dentist. do you leave the country? >> canada or mexico. >> i mean the hate e-mails and i mean his website got taken down. he got taken down from a lot of other web sites. family threats. i mean he's -- >> terrible story. >> you say it took 40 hours for the lion to die? >> i guess because he shot it with a cross bow, right? >> it's just unbelievable. >> a hateful death. >> what do do you? >> welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and mark halperin

and howard dean are still us with. we have john heilemann with us from bloomberg politics. in washington nbc political contributor and editor of "the fix," chris alizza and doris concerns goodwin. next week her first book "lyndon johnson and the american dream" will be released as an e-book. doris, it is great to have you on. i can't wait to hear what she has to say about what john heilemann got in new hampshire. >> it is going to be fascinating. we're also excited to have doris here as mike barnicle pointed out, the autoth an50th anniversary of medicare and medicaid signed into law. >> harry truman was the first beneficiary of medicare. >> i think it's safe to say that was a big one. >> a game changer. >> that was a game changer. we'll be talking about that and much more. first, let's go to shock polls. the latest q poll just out. and a focus group that has

everybody in washington and new york talking. >> finally getting a grip. let's start with the new q poll released this morning. it has donald trump in the lead nationally with 20%. a fifth of the republican vote. scott walker is second with 13%. jeb bush with 10%. and the remarkable four way tie for fourth between marco rubio, ben carson mike huckabee and rand paul. on the undercard, ohio governor john kasich's rise to a% of5% of the vote and rick perry at 6% kasich is in the top of recent polls. i guess that impacts whether or not he gets into the debate. zbh yep. >> the national poll comes as a new poll of florida republicans shows donald trump ahead of both jeb bush and senator marco rubio in their home state. trump leads bush 26-20%. wisconsin goner scott walker taking 12% and rubio at 10%.

>> mark halperin, what is your take on the polls? >> in a big field, a quarter of vote is a big deal. there is no doubt that trump's national rise is being reflected in pretty much every state poll where he is first or second. >> why is he doubling jeb bush right now? >> i think the mood of the party is for somebody who is an outsider, even if florida where jeb bush is pretty well known. again, he's only got a quarter of the vote. you can go from a quarter vote to much less in a big hurry. but right now trump is -- without spending much money, just dominating the news and capturing the sensibility outsider andy washington truth teller that is reflecting in a lo lot of the republican electorate. jeb bush isn't doing. that and the others trying to do that people like ted cruz and scott walker and rand paul and others, they're not getting the attention. >> so we're going to put a face on this. jonathan capehart brought up something that michael steele talked about which is instead of focusing so many on the

messenger, focus on the people following the mess efrpger. all morning we've been talking about and we can't get enough of this focus group out of new hampshire. and a quote that i really want to talk to doris about this. there was a moment in the focus group that you could hear the collective gasps in georgetown. and on the upper west side. when somebody says of trump -- >> and on this set. >> -- he's one of us. >> that's right. >> here you have a guy that lives in a rarefied world, billionaire, industrialist, lives the type of life that very, very few people will ever see, know, relate to. and, yet, one of us. that sounds of course it happens from time to time where people like fdr are seen as populous champions and it stuns the political establishment when that happens. >> i want to hear john heilemann's reaction. he conducted the focus group.

first, take a look at new hampshire voters thoughts on donald trump. >> he speaks the truth. >> what truth is that? >> when he talks about especially immigration control and the border he really -- he doesn't care what people think. >> unchoreographed. >> he is honest. >> i like rizhis roughness. a little reaganesque. >> he's not a politician. >> like he said, i won't be bought off. >> trump is a threat because he doesn't fit in the same box all the other republicans are in. >> he's like one of us. he may be a millionaire that separates him from everybody else. but beside the money issue, he is still in tune with what everybody is wanting. >> when he referred to some illegal immigrants as rapists, did that bother people? didn't bother people? what was your reaction or didn't you notice it? >> i didn't notice. >> it didn't bother me. >> didn't bother me. >> he said he'll put a wall down on the southern border. when you talk about common sense, that's the common sense

thing to do. >> i knew that he was a wealthy successful man and i remember asking my mother if i could write him a letter to ask him how he made his money so that i could do it too. >> even as a very young kid the word trump meant rich? >> it meant success. >> i think he's a successful person. >> he's successful. i want to be a billionaire. >> how can i begrudgeon that? he worked hard. >> tell me when you that i a trump presidency would look like? >> classy. >> it will be nice to see that deck clock start going debt clock going the other way. >> i think we can be a proud american. >> it will be a president sieve hope. -- presidency of hope. >> howard dean i want to get back you to. somebody that's run for office before mika was looking at the people and she said they're very powerful. i laughed. you don't know how powerful. two or three days before my first election i had somebody say, you know what? my opponent said every doctor around the water is going to be

voting against you. i said yeah you know what? for every doctor that votes against me in the south end of the district i got ten people that are coming out of the mobile homes on the north endst district who are going to vote for me. i'll take my people over your people any day of the week. and i'll win. and i d and that's the thing. these people a lot of these people probably have seen as outsiders, even in their own community. and, yet, they are the most powerful groups in america. >> it's true. i hate to get a little off message. we've all been oohing and ahhhing over this. that poll is florida is also extraordinary. him doubling two well known popular republican politicians in florida is extraordinary. but let's -- the other -- we talked about the capacity to get out the vote in iowa. there is one other thing that i think is a big deal much it's going to be a problem. people will not vote for you for president unless they can see that you look presidential.

and that you act presidentially. so at this stage of the game i think we've underestimated trump, for sure. i think he can win caucuses. i think he can conceivably win the nomination. i would be surprised if the republican voters though as the reality of a donald trump nominee comes closer that they don't look towards the more establishment candidate. this is a party that is almost always going back to barry goldwater nominated the establishment candidate over the insurgent. >> that is true. >> i think you're wrong. >> this is a pretty stunning more thanning for morning for me. >> the republican party always picks the establishment candidate, even in 1964. barry goldwater, while the establishment didn't like him, he was next in line because of what happened in 1960. and there was an insurgency there. republicans don't go for insurgent candidates.

but this he have every year since ike. so talk about what you saw in that room that is surprising so many people this morning. >> well joe, you're going to see a lot more of this video over course of the next 24 hours as we get it all out. it was a really fascinating experience for me. i learned a huge amount. you know the first thing that i'd say is that the -- it's clear that donald trump is not what some people think which is a summer fling. these people who are supporters are -- they know a lot about him. they've known about him for a long time. this is not someone who just came into their consciousness recently. that is obvious. i heard that one woman talk about wanting to write trump a letter when she was a kid. another woman said she read "the art of the deal" when she was 8 years old on the beach. these people have admired trump's business success for a long time. a lot of him wanted to run in 2012. so these people are strong supporters of donald trump. a lot of them they were romney

backers. these are people who are working class, middle class, upper middle class. they're people who are not -- some of them are tea party people. some are not. a lot of the second choices were -- they range across the spectrum from jeb bush to marco rubio to ben carson. so there was a lot of diversity in the group. but there is support for trump is really strong. it's clear that trump to them embodies success. as much as the issues matter to them, or as much as his views on illegal immigration or even his brash style, it's that he embodies capital success mattered a lot to them. that is what qualifies him to be president. >> you know mika that's fascinating. somebody reading "art of the deal" on the beach whether they were 8. my brother was always growing up a huge trump fan. i didn't -- money doesn't -- i just never really got money. i wasn't aspirational that way. but my brother and so many other people who are aspirational and really wanted to pursue the capitalist stream they loved

trump. still do. and just think again, this goes back 30 35 years. donald trump on the cover of "time" magazine back in the early '80s. >> this is not new. this is i think it's new to the echo chamber. i really do. or to the folks that think they really can kind of predict what's going to happen in politics. this is not new information. doris, i'll ask you. is donald trump a summer fling? >> no. i suspect maybe he'll be an autumn affair as well as a summer fling. you know, i think what underlies so many so much of this is for the last few decades politicians are not been the people we admired the most. i was listening to what was said about success. and success in business in wall street, money has been what is part of the common culture right now. whereas we looked at our politicians in washington and how many people said i want to be one of those guys. they go down there and can't get anything done.

in certain sense that, is a problem for the country. that when that younger class doesn't want to be part of public life and doesn't want to have politics as an location as jfk said are we getting our best people in public life if they don't feel that's their goal? but i think that is underlying this whole thing. he's not a politician. and they think maybe he'll do something for us that politicians haven't done. and he has been successful. but i don't know. maybe it won't go into a winter marriage. we'll see what happens. >> okay. >> chris, let's get a fix on what the fix's take was on the focus group that we just saw. part of it obviously -- let's see if you agree with this. part of it is trump's appeal to so many people who have felt estranged from politics for so many years. but what's your view of what you just saw and heard? >> first of all, the best part of that focus group is the woman who said that a trump presidency would be classy. sort of a donald trump buzz word

come to life. i think sort of dissatisfaction with washington is one thing. i think the most fascinating thing to me is the don't really care that deeply what he says much more interested in that he says it. i keep coming back to mark cuban who is also not your average joe, the owner of the mavericks saying i don't really care what trump says i just like him saying it. that sort of idea ins lats trumulates trump in a way, the immigration, the divorce stuff that's come out, what really hurt your average politician but in a way it affirms the trump brand. i'm just going to say things. say what's on my mind and you can like it or leave it. people like that. because it is so unwashington and unpolitical. i did not see it coming as i sit here in the washington echo chamber. i didn't think he'd have the

legs he has had. i thought maybe he bumped up and would come right back down. i'm now at this point not going anywhere to say this is going away any time soon. whether intentional or not, he tapped into a real disgust. i always say sort of the middle finger of the republican base to the republican establishment. that is donald trump. they're sick of the people who are running for office. he is literally the exact opposite of what you would usually pick. >> you know sh joe, one of the more intriguing aspects of the trump candidacy and you piqued my interest when you talked about running for office in florida. the doctors were going to vote against you. >> yeah. >> so there are the doctors. and then there are the people out in the waiting room who probably voted for you and not the doctors. >> yeah. >> but the woman who said in that focus group that when she was a kid she sat down and wanted to write a letter to trump to see how she could be as successful as he is, part of our culture is so involved in this thing called television. she met donald trump on

television and therefore feels she knows him. and i think a lot of people feel -- >> but he connected through the screen. >> and you know it's aspirational. i always tell the story about when we lived in mississippi and drag down country club drive going to church on sunday mornings and we never set foot on the country club. we didn't know anybody who was a member of the country club. nobody would ever invite us to the country club. we were -- lived out in the country. and yet, every sunday morning my mother would look at the houses and look at the cars and the driveway and we just sit there and say you work hard in school you work hard in school can you do anything. and you can live on this street when you grow up. and that's the promise of aspirational america. >> that's right. >> we showed that that clip shows people speaking positively about him as john said there will be more on our show tonight. more on "morning joe" tomorrow. a very long focus group. we didn't show there people saying negative things about him. i think counterintuitively, that

part of trump's strength. they already know his weaknesses. they're familiar with the fact that he sometimes says outland sh things. they're if many that he does things that are unpresidential. they factor that in. they bake that in already and they still like him. >> yeah. john, tell people what they said about the other candidates particular lit other ones who have a lot at stake in new hampshire. >> well you know again -- mark, one of the things that is interesting, they spoke -- i was surprised. someone who would like donald trump consider jeb bush the second choice. >> i was, too. >> they spoke favorably about a lot of the other candidates. they're very solidly for trump but they're not haters on the rest of the republican field. but what was interesting is we showed them some video of bush attacking trump. and then video of rick perry attacking trump. and their reactions were incredibly negative. they not only did they dismiss the attacks as being a product

of envy on the part of bush and perry for the fact that trump is getting more attention. they dismissed them on the merits. and they liked bush and perry less after hearing the attacks than they did before hearing the attacks. >> i brought up my brother. i have to say it again. every time somebody attacks trump, george loves jeb. jeb attacks trump, george doesn't like jeb anymore. i mean rick perry. he says -- you know what he says? and this is perfect for a candidate. he says they're desperate. they're desperate because they're scared because he is shaking up the establishment. and doris, when you're put in that position where every attack actually becomes a strength you're in a very good position. at least for this moment during this summer fling. >> well i think that is the important thing. at least for this moment during the summer fling. people are still pretty far away from really focusing on this race. it's too long a race. sometimes i wish we could just go back to the old days when you had a convention in the summer

and the party leaders chose the candidates and then they had two months in the fall and you really focused intensely. right now i mean people's lives are going on. they're paying attention to what is on television. are they truly thinking about which person they really want to live with for four eight years in the presidency? we see these polls shift so much as time goes along. but he's got his moment in the sun. so i guess people are going to say, there he is. >> doris, elections matter. campaigns matter. and certainly the campaign in 1964 mattered a great, great deal. 50 years ago today as mike brought up earlier, lbj signed medicare and medicaid into law. what piece of legislation over the past 50 years come close to impacting american society as much as what happened 50 years ago today? >> no question not only medicare and medicaid but voting rights the civil rights act in 1964.

you know when president johnson went to independence missouri, 50 years ago this very day as we said to sign medicare went there because he felt the truman had been forgotten. and truman had first sponsored something like a health care legislation many daek aids before decades before. they changed their mine to vote independence. we can't fly half way across the country. he said i want people to remember him. he's alone out. there i hope some day people remember me. and i think it's been an extraordinary thing that this 50 year anniversary of so much of lbj's legislation shows in the long run more important than any of the stuff we talked about all day to day is when the person gets in there, are they going to do something that stands the test of time for the american people, that increases social justice, that increases economic opportunity? and however sad and wrong the war in vietnam was, lbj's legacy on those domestic issues is unmatched since fdr. so it's an extraordinary thing. i wish so much he were aly. i'm so glad his daughters are

alive to see the domestic accomplishments are finally getting their proper due. he was an incredible character. the most interesting politician i ever met. i not the most interesting man. i better say that about my husband. >> doris and chris, thank you. and still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> a couple of interesting things to say about you i'd like to get your response to them. he said you don't belong on the debate stage on august 6th. he questioned your energy toughness and "brain power" that it might require to run a successful campaign. what you would say to mr. trump if he were standing here saying that in your presence? >> let's get a pullup bar out there and see who can do the most pullups. >> governor rick perry all but challenges donald trump to a duel. with a very different set of guns. governor perry joins the table ahead. but first, we'll talk to

governor george pataki about how he plans to try and cut through the field of 17 candidates. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> we're going to do a focus group on the governor. get inspired with aarp travel. plan and book your trip online and get hot travel tips from the pros. find more real possibilities at aarp.org/possibilities. do you like the passaaadd? it's a good looking car. this is the model rear end event. the model year end sales event. it's year end! it's a rear end event. year end, rear end check it out. talk about turbocharging my engine. you're gorgeous. what kind of car do you like? new, or many miles on it? get a $1000 volkswagen reward card on select 2015 passat models. or lease a 2015 passat limited edition for $199 a month after a $1000 bonus. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta and fires up free wi-fi, with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before you know what he can do? let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks!

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they had me at 25% and the next person is at 12%. that's a big difference. a poll came out two days ago where i'm number one with the hispanics. i know you're surprised to hear. that i'm number one with hispanics. i said if i get the nomination, i will win with the hispanics. >> that was donald trumps moments ago facing questions in turnberry, scotland. joining us now former governor of new york george pataki. >> governor a big debate coming up. how do you breakthrough? >> i think you just let people know who you are and what you've done. there is no one who has my background. growing up on a farm working in a factory, having a scholarship to yale and then being a republican conservative governor in the most liberal state in the america and not just winning

three times but putting in place the most conservative change in government policies of any state in america. >> it seem -- >> no one else has done that. >> over the past several weeks -- >> you dismiss that, joe. >>, no i don't dismiss it. i brought your name up when people say of course george pataki. why you are interested in him? i say because he won new york state three time as a conservative. good luck finding another person who's done. that i don't dismiss you at all much it's a long, long race. >> yes. >> but let me ask you though over the past couple weeks people have set themselves on fire rhetorically to try to handle sort of trump suck is all the oxygen out of the room. like, for instance, we had mike huckabee a couple days ago talking about negotiating with iran is like marching jews into the oven. >> that's over the top. joe, i think you're right. the candidates are desperately trying to figure out how they can get air time and get on television. i'm just going to continue to make the case to the american

people retail wholesale, when i get a chance like this that i have the ability to win this race if i'm nominated i'll win. i'm not going to just tinker around the edges in washington. i'm going to dramatically change. >> how? >> we're going to change the culture by making congress live under the rules that passes. we're going to end the lobbying connection by getting rid of former legislators being allowed to serve as lobbyists. we're going to throw out the lobbyist driven tax code $1.3 trillion in exemptions every year. >> we're going to replace it with lower, flatter rates that get rid of all the loophole. >> more of a flat tax? >> lower and flatter rates with fewer exemptions. everybody is going to say. that the difference though is that i did it. i did it in a state where i had 103 democrats and 47 republicans in the legislature. and i did it in a way that was sustainable. so that when i left we had a state that had the highest credit rating in generations and billions in surplus. >> what happened in new york state since you left?

>> since new york, well, we still have low crime. notwithstanding the problems -- >> but as far as the tax problem. >> it's going up. after i left they went on another spending bifrpgnge. the spending is too high. taxes are too high. so what happens is the democrats, the liberals come in. they rule for 20 years. foul up the finances foul up the economic climate. they have someone else come in straighten it out. and then go back in and do it again. but at least i was able to make new york state a place people want to live again. and, you know i just was watching your segment on trump. he tapped into an enormous anger towards washington. he's an outsider. i have that same sense of anger towards washington. i don't express it in the same way. i'm not going to set my hair on fire. i think ultimately people are going to see me as someone who is that washington outsider who not only is going to say how he's going o change it but he's done it in the deepest blue state and he can do it in washington. >> mark? >> if -- or mike either one. >> you dealt with donald trump as governor. you know donald trump.

he is qualified to be president? >> i don't think anyone who hasn't held public office i don't think anyone who has diminished an entire ethnic group in this country as did he with mexicans should be president of the united states. you know i have two grandparents, we're all immigrants one was italian, one was irish. they were discriminated against. there were people that said slurs against their ethnic groups. to go out there and say mexicans are racists or thugs is unacceptable in the 21st century. i think ultimately americans are going to want someone who brings us together. we have a president today who has deliberately divided us to gain political advantage. we have a candidate when hillary clinton who is going to say that we're anti-woman or anti-black or anti-immigrant or anti-the middle class. we want to bring people together. i think the american people are fed up with the politics of the division. i did that in new york. i can do it in america. >> did you just say no one should be president who never held elective office? >> no. but if you look back on the history of this country in the last 150 years, we had dwight

eisenhower who was a national hero and great leader and we had grant who was a national hero. i think it's extremely unlikely that anyone will be elected president who hasn't held elected office. >> would president pataki say if israel said we would like to make a military strike against the iran nuclear program? >> i think iran cannot ab loud to have a nuclear weapon period. flat out. and if the only way to do that were military action whether it was by israelis or others i would not stand in the way of that happening. you know mark i can't believe that how many years it is 60 years after the holocaust, 70 years after the holocaust. hitler said we're going to zroit jews. it's political rhetoric. germans are a civilized people. that's never going to happen. now you have iran saying we're going to destroy israel. we're going to burn it to a crisp. and we're in the proservice giving them a path to a nuclear weapon. people are saying oh, it's political rhetoric. oh the iranian people are good people. we can never forget that lesson

of the holocaust. i will never forget the lesson of september 11th, radical islam wanted to destroy israel. they wanted to destroy us. and whatever it takes to prevent israel -- iran from having a nuclear weapon i will support that action. >> but this deal does for now. >> the deal does is empower the number one sponsor of state terror with hundreds of billions of dollars of funds that they're going to use to expand their terrorist activities. we get a paper saying that if they obey the paper, they will not have nuclear weapons for a period of time. well we had seven u.n. resolutions saying they could not have a nuclear program at all. and they ignored it. >> so you're saying we should act militarily. >> if we have to. if we have to take military action, whatever it takes to prevent iran from having a nuclear weapon, the civilized world must take. hopefully the iranians will come to their senses. this administration will come to its senses. congress will reject this deal.

we can avoid that confrontation. i don't think anybody sitting here i don't think anybody in america looks forward to any sort of military action at all. >> would you be hard pressed to find candidates out there that wouldn't say. and politicians in washington that wouldn't say a military option is certainly on the table. people say that's just not acceptable. jonathan capehart in washington has a question. >> governor listening to you speak, sound like somebody who should be on that deanbate stage a week from tonight clear ideas of how you would govern and where you would lead the country. let me ask you if, you're on that debate stage and donald trump were to attack you personally denigrate your three terms as governor of new york as

a former constituent, how would you respond? trying to prepare for this debate is like being a nascar driver. driving with someone who is drunk. how you would respond? >> i saw that tweet. you know i can't tell you the number of times that donald trump told me what a great governor you are and how many checks he sent me. you want to bring americans together. you don't want to divide us. you have the ability to win the election and the ability to change washington because you did it in the deepest blue state in america. i think that's the message that i think ultimately republican voters, independents conservative democrats are going to say this is the leadership that we need. >> governor george pataki thank you very much. >> thank you, governor. >> thank you. >> governor rick perry will join the table in just a few moments. also still ahead, there have been false alarms before. so it's now possible that parts

of the wreckage from that missing malaysian jet have finally been found. former ntsb investigator greg fife joins us next on "morning joe." you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you.

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♪ 38 past the hour. this morning there is new hope that the first remnants of

malaysia airlines flight 370 have been found on a small island in the indian ocean. joining us now from denver nbc aviation analyst greg fife. from what can you tell from the video, what is the likelihood that this is not just a strong lead, this is the wreckage? >> there is a lot of hope and there is some confirmation that this is probably the flaperon from a boeing 777. folks i talked to looking at not only the illustrated parts catalog that is a diagram of that particular part and some identifying characteristics all believe that this is from a boeing 777. >> so let as reverse it. what are the chance this is is not it? >> well again, there are some identifying characteristics. there was an air bus a-310 that crashed in that area in 2009. but each of these airplanes has

unique characteristics in the way they build the wing the wing panel flaps and that kind of thing. plus, there's identifying numbers on it. there is a data plate that would typically have a part number serial number and actually a build number for the subassembly. all of that will be used to -- for confirmation. i understand that this part will be moved to airbus i mean to the bea for identification. >> sir greg let's take it is part of the missing airplane. what does it tell us about where the plane itself crashed? the debris obviously can move hundreds of miles, right? >> absolutely. and that's what everyone has talked b the one thing i have not heard is how long that part's been on the island. i think that's going to be key as well. if it just washed up yesterday after 500 days, that changes where the drift pattern would actually originate or where

people would look for as far as a search area. if it's only been adrift for 100 days or 200 days and just now finding it, that too, will change the drift and exactly where they would be looking to either define a new search area or refine an old search area. so i think that there's going to be still a lot of scientific work to be done. of course, with the ocean currents and trying to find where the drift pattern may have originated. >> greg fife thank you very much. we'll follow. this up next presidential candidate rick perry joins the table. he'll be here next on "morning joe." ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. those who have served our nation. have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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treatment with xarelto® was the right move for us. ask your doctor about xarelto®. we're all talking. you are the yellow rose of texas. right? >> exactly. >> so yeah we were talking about kids and you were telling mika it doesn't get easier.

>> nope. >> big kids big problems. >> it is still a challenge. and you're still a parent. and no matter -- whether it's a small problem or big problem you're still a parent. >> and it's great. it keeps getting better every day. >> no. here's the deal. >> real honesty here. >> somewhere along this line grandchildren come. >> yeah. >> i have two grandchildren. >> i saw the video. >> they're pretty awesome. >> so cute. >> i get to keep them. we went and kept them over the weekend. so they're -- >> i'll tell you what, i said a lot stupid things in my life. the stupidest thing is when my 18-year-old son graduated from high will xoo, my oldest joey. i said one down. three to go. not my job here is done. it keeps going. it keeps going. it's a great thing. it's not a negative. you said something though once a parent always a parent. i look at these 24 25-year-old kids and they're excited about having the baby. i said it's -- it gives me

meaning to my life. the most important thing in my life. but understand, once that baby come out, that's yours until the day you die. it's your responsibility. everything else is secondary. >> my mom still agonizes over me. and what you all do to me. >> awe. >> i hope she wasn't watching in 2012. but anyway, so how is -- >> unfortunately sh she was. >> how is '16 different from '12. >> whether you've gone through this process, you think back no matter what you've done in life when you've done it multiple times than your better at it. >> yeah. >> but nothing prepares -- you ran the biggest -- one of the biggest states in america. nothing prepares you for running for president. >> and you're not healthy. you're not prepared properly. i spent the last three years in deep preparation for this. number one, i'm more confident. that i can sit on the stage and talk about this myriad of

issues. i mean it's an incredible amount of issues that you have to be more than just passively knowledgeable about. and then you know i look at myself and i -- as a kid that grew up on the dry land cotton farm 16 miles from anyplace that had a post office. anybody wants to talk rural, i can talk rural with them. if they want to talk poor i can talk poor with them. >> even the way you say rural tells me you're rural. >> wearing the uniform of the country and being the governor of the 12th largest economy in the world for the last 14 years, all of that makes me pretty unique in a set of individuals. >> so it's an extraordinary story. i know your story. it's really inspirational. your success story. what do you say to a focus group that talks about donald trump and perpendicular playing the focus group where they say he's one of us? talking about trump. does that make you -- does that

jar you? do you want to say, no i'm one of you. >> i don't understand how donald trump would be one of them when you look at you know how he grew up. very rich. very rich. and but, you know i think this is not about one of us as it is who's going to really be able to lay out the solutions for this country? who's got the experience? flight attendant asked me coming up here said why should i vote for you? i said when you get on this airline and the individual that gets up in the front left seat you want it to be the most experienced captain that you have ever flown with. because you're going to be flying you and your family somewhere. you want somebody that's been through everything that you can think of. i mean been through every storm, every light on that cockpit lighted up before yellow red, blinking. and you want somebody that's got the experience of being able to do that. i said i have. the 12th largest economy in the world. this is same size as canada or australia.

i mean this is a big economy that i've run and done very successful with. i think as we have this conversation listen the celebrity side of this remember back in '07 fred thompson and rudy giuliani led this thing for almost a year. so we're at an early stage in this process. and i don't get to confuse that we're going to have plenty of time to talk about solutions and at that particular point in time that's what i think the american people are going to really focus in on. >> governor congress being run by your party now.connell, what are they doing well and poorly? >> i think they're doing a poor job of making americans believe they can actually make congress work and work with the president. part of that is the president's problem. i think one of the things i learned as a governor is you have to reach out across party lines much i'd rather have half a loaf than no loaf. we're getting a the love no loaf. as a matter of fact, we're not even getting a slice at this particular point in time. so a president who actually

wants to work with congress and i think congress has got to be reaching across that line too. >> what are boehner and mccobble mcconnell doing well now? >> i think they're working towards getting some -- getting some financial things headed in the right direction, making some, you know reductions in spending. getting these agencies. but the fact is that american people don't really see washington whether it's congress or whether it's the president addressing the solutions that are facing this country. they want somebody that can get things done. i go back to as the governor of texas, we got things done. i never did anything not tort reform, not a major education bill, not any of the big issues that we didn't d. in in texas without democrats helping. you have to reach across and democrats and republicans working together. >> yeah. >> tell us about your wrist

bracelet. >> colton rusk he was killed in december of 2010. marine machine gunner gunner and a dog handler. his grandmother i knew. his dog eli was his life. and his mom and dad wanted to get eli back after he was killed. and i had, because some of my previous relationships with kids i went to college with that were lieutenant general in the marine corps. i called them said listen this is what i want to do. i want to get this dog, i want to get it back to his parents. i ran into road blocks ran into red tape. that's not how the marine corps operates. i went up and asked, listen this is chip chip conley great american. he said let me work on it. about three weeks later, he called me back and said

governor eli is on military airlift going back to cherry point, north carolina en route to lackland air force base texas, with instructions not to do anything but put loving hands on him. he's living with the family today. just had a littleer of puppies he just had. a sad story, but it had a good ending. >> governor rick perry. >> it reminds me about the cost of war. i've looked into the face of too many of these young men and women. i wrote a letter a week from 2003 through 2010 to a texan, a family of a young texan lost in the war. i know what the war costs. and the next president of the united states needs to understand that. but before we send our young men

and wim nn to battle to put their lives in jeopardy, that we have exhausted every, and i mean every option. diplomatically sanction wise covert, overt. >> right, right. >> so that when we go if that's our last option we do it with great strength. we do it with speed. we crush the opposition. then we come home. >> exactly. >> governor thank you very much for being here. >> thank you governor. >> good to be with you. >> still ahead, why a federal judge erupted over the state department's handling of hillary clinton's e-mails. we'll have that story on "morning joe." eady ya know what he becomes? great proposal! let's talk more over golf. great. how about over tennis? even better. a game changer! the ready for you alert, only at lq.com. hey terry stop they have a special! so, what did you guys think of the test drive? i love the jetta. but what about a deal? terry, stop! it's quite alright... ok, you know what? we want to make a deal with you.

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no camera on you. >> up next donald trump on a roll. topping two new polls. one national and one from jeb bush and marco rubio's home state. plus rough and tough and class classy. some of the words new hampshire voters used to explain trump's appeal. we'll have more from the bombshell focus group that explains the billionaire's rise in the polls. plus the developments in that traffic stop that ended in one man's death and an indictment against the officer who pulled him over. we'll hear from the victim's mother who says she's prepared to forgive the cop. that story straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around, barry ♪ ♪ i finally found the right snack

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. back with us on set, we have mike barnicle mark halburn, jonathan capehart, and howard dean as well. >> a new national poll that we're crashing. what do you have? >> trump is at 20. walker and bush walker at 13 bush at 10. no one else -- wow, above 6. so trump, another national lead. >> trump first, walker second bush third. >> and he tops everybody, and some people saying no way would they vote for him.

30% say they would net vote for him. >> 60% not too long ago. >> a new poll from the florida republican primary shows trump ahead of both jeb bush and marco rubio in their home state. trump leads bush 26 to 20. >> just stop for a second. i heard a wow. you know howard it was not so long ago we were going, marco or jeb? marco or jeb, marco or jeb? i'm not surprised by this at all. this is -- this is something that we're going to look back on and say there's a high mark of trumpism or it was the beginning of the end of some of these florida candidates. >> this is a shocker. the reason it's such a shocker is one of the reasons the polls are so weird at this time of a presidential camp pain is because nobody really knows anybody. so they don't really mean much. and a person like donald trump gets on and makes a lot of noise and gets big numbers. but these two politicians, jeb

bush and marco rubio, are known and well respected in the republican party in florida. this is an absolute shocker. and it's -- it's somewhat worrying for the republicans. one thing to have donald trump leading in national poll and nobody really knows who else is running. it's another thing to do it in a home state of two of the candidates who are thought at least by the inside beltway people to be among the leading contenders for the nomination. this is a stunner. i would love to know what you guys thin about this. i can't get over this. >> mika. >> unfortunately, i'm not surprised. >> i am surprised because -- >> i'm surprised everyone is so surprised. >> i said for some time, mark halpern halpern, that it was probably going to be at the end of the day jeb or marco, for a lot of different reasons. trump's had a lot of -- there's been the trump effect. but a huge impact has been what it's done to all these -- >> right. >> they were first tier

candidates. i have to call them second-tier candidates. what it's done to ted cruz to marco, to rand paul. he has sucked the heart of support out of a lot of candidates that we were talking about really seriously just a month or two ago. >> in the end, it may help jeb bush because everybody else is frozen in place while he has $100 million plus in the bank. >> jeb just keeps collapsing. a poll out of new hampshire, i guess he's being doubled there. trump is beating him. i see you smiling. i'm sure people are smug about it now. i would be worried. >> being ahead now doesn't necessarily mean you'll be the nominee. jeb doesn't mean help raising money. some of these candidates are going to struggle raising money. some of the others are going to struggle to learn how to be a presidential candidate under the spotlight. jeb bush doesn't have those problems. trump has florida ties. you look at who is the governor

of florida now. a wealthy businessman who is an insider. trump is a great fit for florida because of his message. >> jeb bush though owned florida for eight years. most popular politician down there. mike barnicle, it's one poll but it's indicative of other polls that shows donald trump is pounding the republican field right now. >> one poll in july a year before the election but the bottom line on the poll is donald trump is not going away. he's taking all of the oxygen out of the room for several of the republican candidates. this is the home state of a former governor jeb bush and a sitting united states senator, marco rubio. and the amazing thing is that trump, despite what wi say about him, despite what he does to himself sometimes on tv in the clips that we show i think the focus group will probably prove the point when we see it. >> we get it in a couple minutes. >> if you stand in the back of a

hall with any candidate, trump, any candidate, and watch for people who nod their heads as that candidate speaks donald trump has more heads nodding than any of the other candidates currently. >> mika t is july but you look four years ago. we said it at the time. newt's in first place one week then he's down. michele bachmann is in first place, then she's down. herman cain is in first place, then he's down. you can go on and on through all of those candidates. this is not 2012 and donald trump is not michellee bachmann and he has done some things that would have blown up other candidates, yet his numbers keep growing. so i guess the question now that people are having who said he would have no impact on the race whatsoever. that just ended up being unbelievably wrong. the next question is what dynamic changes things? what can donald trump to do himself to actually start losing numbers? and that's the big guessing game

now. i just -- i don't see what it is right now. >> i don't either. i think that's the point. i think that nobody really knows what to do with him, and there were some of us early on who had that instinct. i had a similar instinct completely different situation, about candidate obama. everyone laughed and sophed and said no way, never going to make it. >> i remember that. >> yeah, said it to you. the republican party did not know what to do with him. and the chips all fell in his direction. >> i tell you what would bring him down. it would be a story about alleged sexual assault or a front page "new york times" story about making fun of a woman over breast feeding. oh, no wait. both of those hanned. he plays by different rules and he's a warrior at a time when the country might have a bush/clinton general election. >> let's not get carryied away. >> howard nobody's getting carried away. we're just saying for a month or two, we had people saying donald

trump is going to have no impact whatsoever, and a lot of people very scornful around the set. >> i agree with that. >> all we're seeing is and that's a question. what brings him down? >> here's what could bring him down, which is nothing to do with front page stories about any of the other stuff. this is a stunning poll because in a state where these two guys are well known, this is actually, i think, shows something about jeb bush's weaknesses, which i'm very surprised at. and marco rubio. but here's what could bring them down. we don't know if he has a field organization. you cannot win in iowa without a field organization. and so you can be in first place in july in the polls, and i think you guys are all right. this is far beyond anything any of us thought donald trump was going to get to. this is a big deal this poll in florida. but he's still got to have an on the ground field organization in order to win iowa. that's true in both parties. >> then the question is not

really what brings him down. it's what brings any of the other candidates up. >> what i'm asking i'm not suggesting there's something that's going to bring him down. i suspect it will be a self-inflicted wound if it's anything. but donald trump played by different rules. >> you mean if he says something outrageous like attacks a war hero. eventually, there will be negative ads run against him, maybe, eventually, maybe more dis disclosures. it's pretty clear he's been atalka attacked for years. he plays by different rules. on the issue of you know is he a real candidate or not, i talked to two people from other candidates who have a lot of stake in iowa. they say trump's people are organizing in iowa. that they see trump's people at organizing events. this is not a lark. he's not running to help his business. he's not running for fun. he thinks he's going to be president. and he's doing the things you need to do to get elected.

>> the "washington post" reports trump recently met with ed rollins to discuss strategy at the 21 club in new york. he managed president reagan's 1984 re-election campaign advised ross perot, and most recently michele bachmann. trump is a lock on the debate stage. other candidates like john kasich are still question marked. an adviser to the ohio governor tells them he believes his candidate will be in the debate. imagine a nascar driver mentally preparing for a race knowing one of the drivers will be drunk. that is what prepping for this debate is like. >> jonathan capehart that would be a nervous night before. >> good times. >> nascar race. >> and it's a great description. i mean mark has, in his comments, has been dropping these little things that trump has done that under normal

circumstances would have blown up anyone else's campaign. i mean granted, i was one of those people who said that when he -- when trump said what he said about senator mccain, that his campaign was done. because who ever heard of a presidential candidate denigrating the service of a war hero a former prisoner of war, who is still in the race? and so you go on the debate stage a week from tonight and anything can happen. >> it wasn't just you. >> i know. >> a guy like pete wayner who is -- i have great respect for, love his columns. he's spot-on most of the time. headline, trump is toast. the "new york times," the "washington post." >> i can't think of someone who didn't. >> i remember you telling me that you thought that he might need to apologize. this might be it as well. >> absolutely. >> you have been right about

trump more times than not, but people don't really seem to hold him by the same standards they hold mere politicians. and mark halpern is here with a focus group out of new hampshire. >> i'm sure this will bring him down, right? you hear from real people in new hampshire that are not us. >> washington establishment, meet me at came rawra three. this is a group of new hampshire republicans who many in the past have voted for establishment candidates. john heilemann was up there yesterday, asked them why do you like donald trump? their answers will surprise you. >> he speaks the truth. >> what truth is that? >> when he talks about, especially immigration control and the border he really -- he doesn't care what people think. >> uncoria graphed. >> he's honest. >> i like his roughest and a little reagan esque. >> he's not a politician. >> he said i won't be bought off. >> trump is a trethreat. >> yep. >> he doesn't fit in the same

box all the other politicians are in. >> he's like one of us. he might be a billionaire, but besides the money, he's in tune with what everybody is wanting. >> when he referred to some illegal immigrants as rapist what was your reaction or didn't it bother you? >> didn't bother me. >> he said he would put a wall down on the southern border. when you talked about common sense, that's the commonsense thing to do. >> i knew he was a wealthy, successful man. i remembered asking my mother if i could write him to letter to see how i could do it. >> as a kid, he meant wealth. >> success. >> i want to be a billionaire. >> how could i begrudge him that. he worked hard. >> tell me what you think a trump presidency would look like. >> classy. >> it could be nice to see the

debt clock go the other way. >> it would be a presidency of hope. >> that is incredible. >> wow. wow. wow. >> so aspirational. successful. >> just like me but a billionaire. >> one of us. talk about your first campaign and what you learned. >> that i learned -- i'm glad you asked. i learned that when candidates walked into a room they didn't have to say anything that -- because we were all unknowns. and a lot of times, you just walk in the room and you stood there. and people could figure out whether you were quote, one of them whether you got them. or whether you were a member of the establishment. i was stunned, stunned, stunned going through that first process of how the judgments were made and it made no sense to other people. for instance, that one person the one woman said he's one of us. no no he's worth billions and billions and billions of dollars. but you know what?

he's pissed off. he's mocked and ridiculed by the establishment. he's dismissed. everybody says he's a joke. everybody says there's no way you can win. everybody is kicking him around in the papers every day, and he doesn't give a damn. he fights back. he's one of us. one of the most shocking comments out of this focus group that people will be scratching their heads about, let me go quickly to howard dean and then to mike. howard, just on a gut level, talk about how people get you. and it's not whether what you say or not. you walk into a room in vermont you stand there a certain way, and people get you or they don't. they think you're one of them or they don't. it doesn't matter whether you're a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. >> you're absolutely right. this is the big thing that washington folks miss all the time. if you have been in politics you kind of lose this understanding. voters vote on how they feel and what their instinct is. they don't vote on issues.

they vote their core values and they feel those values when they meet you, when they see you. they can do it on television. some politicians come across on television than others. you're right. when you go in the room you look around. maybe you head over to shake somebody's hand. they can tell right away right away, whether you're a, quote, politician, or one of them. that was a stunning focus group. so i guess we're all going to have to be more humble about donald trump's prospects for the next couple weeks until he says something outrageous again. >> a stunning focus group. >> a stunning poll. >> a lot of people in there voting democrat in the past independents. i saw a lot of new hampshire in there. >> sure probably half of them from massachusetts, too, having moved to new shamphampshire. one of the keys. maybe the key, you pick it up when you see donald trump in action, is he is unlike all the other candidates. he is approachable in a way none of the other candidates are. there's no distance between

donald trump and the voter. consider the field. you meet any of the other candidates, and it's governor how are you. senator, how are you? it's donald to a voter. he's -- there's no distance between donald trump and your average voter. >> maybe that's why they say he's one of us. >> he also says what he thinks often to his detriment. >> absolutely. >> how many people in the focus group probably had a boss they couldn't stand and shot their mouth off to the boss they couldn't understand got in trouble. >> if you're in a corner in a fight in your mind with the voters, in the focus groups who would you want in your corner? >> yeah and we can talk about whether donald trump would be a great president or not. i will tell you this though on a gut level. take everybody in there. if i had a business i wanted to run, a negotiation i wanted to run on real estate or something else. a high level. i wouldn't go to most of the people in this field. >> interesting how the people in

the group talk about the other candidates. particularly jeb bush and how they just don't want another bush. >> what do they say? >> we don't want another bush. his name is bush. we don't want him. it's too much like the kennedys. we don't want one family dominating. one person said what would a trump presidency be like? classy. everybody in the room had a same attitude. trump would be an aggressive classy president, and again, the establishment has to understand that because right now, they're just thinking of him as a joke rather than someone who is for those new hampshire voters people in florida, a quarter of the electorate nationally in the republican field, thinks trump is the answer to what ails america right now. >> coming up on "morning joe," the latest on the cincinnati officer indicted for murder. and the story of an off-duty detective in massachusetts who told a driver he'll put a hole in his head after a traffic violation. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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the university of cincinnati police officer who shot and killed an unarmed black man during a traffic stop is set to go before a judge this morning. the court appearance comes just one day after an ohio grand jury indicted 25-year-old ray tensing on charges of murder and voluntary manslaughter in the death of 43-year-old sam dubose. officials also released video from the officer's own body camera, shot during the incident nearly two weeks ago. anne thompson has the story. i want to warn you, it could be disturbing for some. >> the final moments of 43-year-old sam dubose's life captured on the body camera on

the officer now accused of his murder. >> all right. do you have a license on you? >> university of cincinnati officer ray tensing stopped dubose for not having a front license plate. he said it's in the glove box. >> you don't have to reach for it. it's okay. do you have a license plate on you? >> he doesn't produce his license. >> what's that on the floor? >> the bottle says gin, but he insists it holds no liquor. several more times, tensing asked him for his license and then something happens. >> i'm trying to figure out if you have a license. go ahead and take your seat belt off. take your seat belt off. stop, stop! >> less than two minutes after tensing approached tensing fires a single shot hitting dubose in the head killing dubose as the car starts to move. tensing chases after the car and another officer arrives. >> he purposely killed him. >> in the bluntest of terms,

hamilton county prosecutor joe deters called him death senseless. >> this is the most asinine act i have ever seen a police officer make. he wasn't dealing with someone who was wanted for murder. he was dealing with someone who didn't have a front license plate. >> the video appeared to contradict tensing's story that he was being dragged by the car and had to file his weapon. tensing's attorney said there's a second tape that shows his client was on inground. >> he felt like his life was in danger. >> tensing is 25. he's been an officer for four years. full-time with the university of cincinnati since last year. the stop was made off campus but allowed with the city. >> for the family -- >> seeing that video let me know that my son did absolutely number nothing. >> both the dubose family and city officials are calling for calm. to avoid the repeat of the riots of 2001 after an officer shot and killed an unarmed black man.

a video stape and swift indictment to keep the focus on justice in the death of sam dubose. >> sam dubose's family said he had just gotten engaged the day before. and here's his mother yesterday. >> did you see in your heart to forgive this person this officer, whether he's convicted or not? >> if he asked forgiveness, oh, yeah. i can forgive him. i can forgive anybody. god forgave us. see, god is allmighty. >> you know this is -- this is about, we talked about body cameras, mike. you know what? right now, we would be trying to figure out exactly what happened. and there could be stories about what happened here. and you would hear that somebody was abusive and fighting and reached for this or reached for that. the body camera.

>> the cop's own body camera tells the tale. and it refutes the tale that the cop originally told. that he was being dragged by the car. he was not being dragged by the car. he clearly had his gun out for a stop for a missing license plate. there was a conversation ensued for at least a couple minutes on the tape as you watch it. and then what happens happened we just saw, within five seconds. when the individual starts his car and begins to pull away boom. within five seconds, he shot and killed that man. >> "new york times" quotes a criminologist at the university of cincinnati who says before this he was a body camera skeptic. now he's changed his mind. >> now to this story from the "boston globe," and we have been saying it nonstop. the only people body cameras ss hurt are bad cops. a massachusetts detective on leave after video surfaced of him telling a civilian he would put a hole in his head after a

traffic violation. the video is captured by the driver's dashcam. here's how the scene unfolded after the detective, who was off-duty at the time, pulled over the driver. [ bleep ]. >> i'll blow a hole through your head. >> i didn't know -- i didn't know you were a cop. >> i'll put a hole through your head. >> okay, okay. >> did that guy look like a cop? >> no. >> i mean come on. >> off duty. this is not the first encounter he's had within the police department i'm told. with anger issues. he cleary has an anger issue. he clearly should not have a badge. >> by the way, if a guy is walking like that screaming at me looking like that i'm not going to pull back. i'm driving off. >> exactly.

the exchange continues after the driver agreed to move his vehicle. the driver has reportedly not yet posted any video showing the actual incident, which the detective demanded he hand over on tape. >> wow. coming up on "morning joe," another heated day on the hill for john kerry. especially over the question over who has seen the so-called secret side deals in the iran nuclear agreement. >> i believe one person may have read it at the facility but doesn't have it. they don't possess it. >> what is that person's name? >> it's possible i don't know for sure but it's possible wendy sherman may have but i don't know that for sure. >> we'll find out when ambassador wendy sherman, the top u.s. negotiator in the iran nuclear deal joins us straight ahead. the signs are everywhere. the lincoln summer invitation is on. get exceptional offers on the mkz sedan... the luxury small utility mkc ...the iconic navigator.

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if this deal goes through, the obama administration becomes the leading global finance ear of radical islamic terrorism sending billions to jihadists who will use that money to murder americans. >> that was senator ted cruz on his take on the deal with iran. mitt romney said i am opposed to the deal but senator cruz is way over the line on the obama terrorism charge. it hurts the cause. thank you. ambassador wendy sherman joins us now. she was the lead american negotiator in the nuclear talks

with iran. also joining us bianna golodryga. good to have you onboard again, bianna. ambassador, first of all, can you response to cruz's statements to huckabee's statements and maybe the statements that are maybe ploys to get into debates or to cut through the noise, how it impacts the cause. >> well, i think, you know we all understand that we're in a presidential season in some ways and we have a lot of candidates who, i'm sure sincerely believe what they do about this deal. but they're really looking, i think, more for the sound bite than for the bite of this deal. we're trying to insure that iran does not acquire a nuclear weapon. that's really serious business. it is true that iran is doing a lot of nefarious things in the region. and we want to stop those as well but you can't load everything onto one deal. what we decided, what the president of the united states decided, is we needed to get the

nuclear weapons off the table so we can focus on the terrorism, on the human rights abuses we can focus on the future of the region. >> there's a lot of talk about the side deals. are you aware of what's in these side deals and what can you tell us abilityout them, especially to help proponents of the deal understand why it should be trusted as a solid deal? >> there are no secrets here. we are well aware that the iaea which will verify this deal creates arrangements with countries, as they do with us under what's called the additional protocol. what we're trying to do here is make sure that everybody in congress knows. i in fact had a secure briefing with house leadership chairs and rankings and told them what was in the arrangements made between the iaea and iran so no secrets here. confidential information, yes. but no secrets. >> mike. >> so senator cotton raised this yesterday with secretary kerry. when there is a classified

hearing, will senator cotton and the other senators be appraised of what is in this deal the iaea has separately? >> absolutely. in fact we're trying to organize that briefing for the senate which is staying a few days later than the house. i briefed the house yesterday. i saw the pieces of paper but was not allowed to keep them. all the member of the p5 plus 1 did in vienna. so did some of my experts who understand this better than i do. >> another topic, similar topic, different category. with regard to the sanctions, if this deal goes sour in the united states senate and it does not come to fulfillment and the sanctions collapse and other countries don't go along with the sanctions, the extended anticipation that iran would not be able to get a nuclear weapon or have access to a nuclear capability for ten to 15 years, what would the timeframe, do you think, would be for them to get a nuclear weapon without these

sanctions being imposed? >> mike they could do it in pretty short order. everybody talks about their concerns about what happens 15 years from now, but quite frankly, i'm concerned about what happens today. iran has 12,000 kill uograms of enriched material. they have a plutonium reactor that is almost ready to go. they have mastered the entire fuel cycle. they know how to build a nuclear weapon. the sprum leader hasn't made the decision to go for one, but if this all collapses, if we walk away, quite frankly, we walk away alone. in that aloneness, iran is probably going to decide that it's going to move forward with its nuclear program because it will decide what good is negotiations? it's not going to get us to where we need to be which is to end our isolation in the world, to be able to engage back in the world. look, there are a lot of things we have to deal with with iran but first we have to get nuclear weapons off the table. >> when it comes to diplomatic negotiations, it's rare you have an energy secretary as a key person who can really go through

the science of it all. how important was his contribution to the negotiations? specifically when you go down to 24 days that they have before inspectors come in. what was he telling you that gave you concrete, i guess, guarantee and evidence that this was actually the right deal and a good deal for us. >> secretary moniz, as you all know, is a nuclear physicist. he is just extraordinary and working very closely with secretary kerry, really forged this deal together. he worked eded with the head of the atomic energy organization who was also schooled at m.i.t. mpt where moniz taught before he went into government. on this 24 days actually under the additional protocol iran can get in immediately if a country agrees. what has happened over the years is the country can docker back and forth for a while, and what we did with the access agreement that we created is we put a clock on that. we said that whole process to

insure access can't take more than 24 days. right now, it can take weeks, it can take months it can take years. even though people have complained about the 24 days in fact, it is an innovation that sets a very short clock and as ernie moniz has said when it comes to radioactive material you can't hide it. years later, you can probably still find them. >> you're one of the few americans in the generation who dealt at this level with the iranians. a lot of people are distrustful of them. what were your interactions with them like and how did it inform your willingness to strike the deal. >> i understand. it wasn't just death to america but it was death to wendy sherman. i took it personally. my family has concerned. i have come to know them. it doesn't mean i trust them. they don't trust me either. you have to have concrete benchmarks that can be verified monitored. we have the most intrusive monitoring of any arms agreement anywhere. we have to build over a long

pire period of time. i don't believe tomorrow our relationship is going to fundamentally change with iran. it's going to be a long time in coming and we have to work closely with israel and our gulf partners to get the stability we need. this deal won't do that alone. secretary kerry is going to meet with all of the gulf countries on august 3rd in doha because it's a serious problem. >> ambassador wendy sherman, thank you very much. thank you for your contributions and haurd work. >> coming up, michelle carice aa cabrera joins us. >> plus senator claire mccaskill told us how she celebrated when she would be running against todd akin. the answer makes us love her more, if that's possible. we'll be right back. no? you can't see that? alright, let's take a look. the one on the right just used 1% less fuel than the one on the left. now, to an airline a 1% difference could save enough fuel to power

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where olympic athletes will compete next summer in rio de janeiro. while brazilian officials insist the water will be safe in time for the games international experts say it's too late to clear it all up. one said what you have there is basically raw sewage. it's all the water from the toilets and the showers and whatever people put in their sinks and it's going into the beach waters. >> greece is saying do you miss us now? >> it's what happens when they give -- >> let's bring in cnbc chief international correspondent michelle caruso-cabrera. new numbers released. >> coming in at 2.3% which is much better than last quarter where we had originally seen a decline and were worried about a soft spot in the economy. last quarter was revised positive but not much. so this is a big improvement and

we're expecting a bigger improvement later in the year. >> and this sort of supports the language we heard from the fed yesterday when they indicated the economy is becoming healthier, it is growing. they didn't mention any of the tumult in europe or china, which investors saw as promising, and now we're waiting for an interest rate hike after seven years. >> it could be september, december. janet yellen did not play her hand on that because a lot of people think she's waiting to see another couple months. they feel like they want to do it this year. >> what is the impact if any, potential impact on puerto rico? >> if they raise interest rates? >> no. >> they have a tremendous debt problem. it's the greece of the united states. the thing is if you look at all the debt that puerto rico has, think of it like a greek diner menu. they have 1500 kinds of bonds

that are spread so far across different portfolios that the actual impact to individuals who might own them probably not so much. puerto ricans are going to suffer. they're already suffering. >> one of the differences though, right, between puerto rico and greece is there's mobility where they're fleeing to the states because they're using the same currency as opposed to greece. >> remember, they can cross borders in europe. it's almost exactly similar. it's so so parallel. they had a terrible brain drain. the most productive members of society leave puerto rico and greece. >> now to the much anticipated new book from missouri senator claire mccaskill entitle "plenty ladylike." "huffington post" sam stein got a look at the book and revealskaskcaskccaskill made a deal with her

daughters. if todd akin won the gop primary to be her republican opponent she would shotgun a beer. she writes after hugging my husband and calling my sons it was time to keep my promise. my daughters had to show me how. i did it, and we laughed until we cryiedcried. how do you do this? >> i learned it at welsly. don't you put a hole in the bottom of the beer and do that? you suck it from the bottom. >> that's one way to do it. >> one way? or shotgunning is when you chug it? very very fast all at once. >> alex is going to explain it. >> you cut a hole in the side of the beer then you pop open the top so the air flow is much more. it comes out very quickly. >> something that happened in the control room. >> you speed up the departure of the beer from the can and have to drink it that fast. >> talent. >> cnbc's michelle

caruso-cabrera thank you very, very much. >> wellesley. that's what they teach. among other things. up next the date is set. hillary clinton is set to testify on capitol hill this fall over benghazi and her private e-mail account. plus why a federal judge is furious over the handling of hillary clinton's state department e-mails. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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a date is set for presidential candidate and former secretary of state hillary clinton to testify before the house benghazi commitment. clinton will appear on october 22nd to answer questions about libya, the benghazi attack on u.s. diplomats in 2012 and her use of e-mail. this will be clinton's first time before the committee since the revelation of her using a private e-mail server to conduct state department business. this as a u.s. district court judge erupted at the state department's foot dragging on releasing the e-mails that clinton turned over. judge richard leon says the department has a pattern of delay in responding to freedom of information requests.

writing about a request to review 60 e-mails, he writes quote, now any person should be able to review that in one day. one day. even the least ambitious bureaucrat could do this. and there are new questions about what e-mails clinton turned over to the government after her tenure ended. the daily beast uncovered a two two-month gap among the work-related e-mails the state department turned over to the benghazi committee. it spans from may to june 2012 a period that also coincides with escalating violence leading up to the consulate attack on september 11th. that included three attacks including one that targeted the consulate. this was also the time period in which senior aide huma abedin received a special exemption that allowed her to work for the state department and the clinton foundation. e-mail was not the only way state department officials

communicated and abedin's employment status might not have been included in e-mails released to the benghazi committee. mark halpern. >> a lot of swirling questions that clinton people are confident that secretary clinton will be the decisive victor in the faceoff. i think they're underestimated trey gowdy and the vulnerability she faces because of the actions of some of her staff. >> bianna are these questions luegit legitimate? >> of course they're legitimate and this attests to a bigger problem that this isn't going away for hillary. to just depend on poll numbers, who the voters say this doesn't affect their thoughts now, that's pretty dicy because at some point it very well could affect their poll numbers. >> all right, up next the growing outrage against the minnesota hunter who shot cecil the lion in zimbabwe. we'll tell you why experts are now concerned for the lion's cubs. we'll be right back.

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spark global outrage, and the office of the minneapolis dentist accused of luring the beloved lion from a zimbabwe game preserve and killing him has become a focal point of protest. >> it's a barbaric hobby. >> killing cecil was not right. >> walter palmer a lifelong trophy hunter reportedly paid more than $50,000 for the hunt in early july. he claimed he paid his guides to obtain proper permits. in zimbabwe they appeared in court. one charged with poaching. the killing triggered a huge outcry on social media. on late night television jimmy kimmel became emotional. >> if you want to make this into a positive you could -- sorry. >> palmer sent a letter to his patients saying he has had to close his practice because of all the attention. he repeated he is willing to cooperate with any investigation. cecil was 13 a tourist favorite. fitting with a tracking collar studied by researchers.

>> cecil was simply magnificent lion. myself and my team have watched him for hours, indeed weeks, months, and years. >> there is no concern for cecil's cubs. without a father to protect them. each year u.s. hunters import some 800 lions as trophies. that's about 2.5% of the world's population. outside palmer's dental office, an artist paints a portrait of cecil. he says he hopes to sell it and give the proceeds to a wildlife conservation fund. >> that was kevin tibbles reporting. it's time to talk about what we learned. mike, what did you learn? >> i understand and appreciate the anger and outrage over the death of cecil the lion in africa. equal amount of anger and outrage over the deaths of so many people in this country through ludicrous handgun murders. >> mark halpern. >> i learned mr. trump supporter supporters in new hampshire are

thoughtful about why they like him. >> bianna. >> the economy continues to grow, and good news for this country. good news for workers, hopefully, and good news for the overall global economy if the u.s. continues to be a stalwart. >> and more positive news. alex coarsen's mom learned something when she turned the show on. she e-mailed you or texted you. >> so proud, turned on the tv to find my son talk about shotgunning a beer. >> actually the only one who knew how to shotgun a beer. it's fitting this week given your work. >> if it's way too early, what time is it? time for "morning joe." "the rundown" is straight ahead. have a great day, everyone. and what could be a major breakthrough in one of the greatest aviation mysteries of

all time. the discovery of an airplane fragment on an island in the indian ocean is viewed as a major lead in the search for missing malaysian airline. the plane mysteriously fangz lyly vanished without a trace 16 months ago. the deputy prime minister spoke moments ago. >> it's quite feasible the wreckage could have traveled that distance in the 16 months since the aircraft presumably went into the water. indeed, if there is a discovery of wreckage on reunion island it would tend to confirm that the aircraft has indeed gone into the ocean. the indian ocean. and that we should therefore concentrate our efforts on the search area that's been -- >> there's also this picture just out this morning. unconfirmed by nbc news. appearing, looks like a suitcase that may have washed