to get you the right gear. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. which is more important to me business or politics? i would say until about three months ago, business was much more important to me. and i would say that that wasn't even close. but for the last few months i've been -- i hate to use the word, i've been a politician. i talk about politicians all talk, no action. they don't get the job done.

they're terrible. our country is going to hell. that's what they do. they talk and there's no action. i'm not known for a politically correct person for good reason. i think there is too much diplomacy. i think we're so politically correct in our country that people are sick and tired of it. you want to be diplomatic. we're diplomatic in our country all over the world. the world hates the united states. i think i'd be very diplomatic. people find that hard to believe. but i think i'd be very diplomatic. i think i'd be a great uniter. i think i would have great diplomatic skills. i think that i would be able to get along with people very well. i think the world would unite if i were the leader of the united states. >> that was donald trump speaking with reporters yesterday at his golf course in scotland.

>> you know what i found out? >> the hat comes in red as well. >> that's ridiculous. >> i need one of those in red. i have one in white. i need the red run. >> i'll get you a full rainbow for your birthday. >> us with on set, john heilemann. those were fascinating focus groups. you have more today? >> a lot more today. >> all right. >> dunny deutsche is here much he has a new show called donnie. >> of course it is. >> i can't wait to see it. i'm supposed to be in it. i haven't gotten my phone call. >> you're in two episodes. >> i think you're leading me on. it's so good. >> i have yet to see it. >> it's going to be funny. >> i must have missed the call. >> you fwhr twowere in two episodes. isn't that enough? >> no it's not. >> thank god, someone that sticks to his word. jeremy peters in washington. yes. >> all right.

>> it's friday. >> can we show the focus groups? >> yeah. so what do we have today? that was pretty crazy yesterday. >> we watched that iowa focus group. so many people said they were blown away. >> a lot of e-mails on that. >> blown away by that. >> usually i get hate tweets. >> a lot of people's eyes really opened up by the people who were supporting donald trump. why they were supporting trump and the fact that they weren't all just per owe supporters and buchanan supporters. there were a lot of bush supporters in there. a lot of people that had cruz as the second choice et cetera et cetera. let's hear more of the negative comments. >> yeah this is interesting. >> that they had to say about trump. >> what's the thing that you like least about it or the thing that concerns you most about him as a presidential candidate? what is the thing about donald trump, if anything. could be nothing if you want. >> i think potentially he could cross over with some

inappropriate comment that's going to turn a large number of people off and it would very much concern me at that point he was the nominee and he's down to two people. >> does anything about donald trump worry you? >> i think in my opinion, it's what hurt romney's success and that was his money. that could be his down fall as much as it is his asset. it could be a weakness because of the way people perceive wealth wealth. some of us see it as success and others see it as greed. somehow in america profit motive has come to equal greed in the mainstream media. when you see a man who runs profitable businesses and is wealthy, he's a target for people to hate. >> right. john, what about you? anything worry you? >> yeah i think he could shoot himself in the foot. >> right. >> he'd make money off of it. >> and they laugh about. that john you also talked about the group talked to the group about donald trump's democratic

roots and what would happen if he ran as an independent. >> so we mentioned the trump was a democrat for a long time. that's true. and not only was he as democrat but he's given a ton of many ton democratic candidates z that bother people in the room that he was a big democratic donor until recently? >> hundreds of thousands of dollars is like me giving him a quarter though. >> it doesn't change where he stands in his -- in what's going on now. >> yeah. that's the past. >> i don't hold that against him that all of a sudden he's decided to -- he's more aligned in his thoughts with the republican party than democrat. >> he seems more of an independent. >> so there's been talk about the possibility that if trump doesn't get the republican nomination he might run as an independent candidate, a third party/independent. who would be open to considering -- open to supporting donald trump as an indend candidate, why? >> the only thing that i think can force him out is the

republican establishment and rnc doing something and forcing him out f that's the case then i'm voting for trump as an independent and it's going to teach republicans a lesson even if we have another democrat. >> for those of who you are -- who would not support trump if he ran as an independent, why would you not support him? >> ross perot. >> you think it would help elect a democrat? >> absolutely. the math is done. math doesn't lie. >> all right. so let's listen to more of the reasons the group is attracted to him. >> like he said i won't be bought off. whereas anybody else they have the chance of being bought off. zbh and >> and washingtonitis. they go to washington and become completely -- they don't work for the constituents anymore. >> the way i see it, the political rhetoric they say pastel colors. they talk for two hours and you go away saying what did they say

of substance? probably nothing. but they haven't offended anybody and tried to make everybody their friend. well, if they're pastel donald trump is vivid colors because he says things the way they are. >> i'm going to go around the room and ask you to name any other candidate who has struck you as being promising. anybody else you look at and think you notice them and might be someone you're interested in? >> ben carson. >> no one. >> ben carson. >> ben carson. >> can't think of anyone. >> ben carson. >> ted cruz. >> can't think of anyone. >> all the lower level guys. they all have very good points. >> right. >> but they're just not -- i don't want to vote in a primary for somebody i know that can't make it. >> right. >> ben carson. >> no one. danielle, anyone? >> rubio, carson trump.

good choices. >> andy? >> carson. >> there's a lot -- there are a number of you that are romney supporters. jessica is one and other people are romney supporters in the room. for those that were romney supporters, do you see romney and trump as being sort of similar? >> no. >> successful business people? yeah. >> i guess in the business sense. but as far as his -- maybe you could call electability i think they're completely different. i think romney was a little too censored. you can see that after the first debate. he completely fell apart. everyone is wondering what happened to romney. i don't see that happening with donald trump. >> from what i see, he's in touch with what everybody is thinking, what everybody wants. he's in tune with america and what's needed not like they said not what people want to hear. >> right. >> he's like one of us. he may be a millionaire that separates him from everybody

else, but besides the money issue, he's still in tune with what everybody is wanting. >> and there's that line again, mika. "he's one of us." >> it's like he's a very good cmo. you know? can figure out what -- okay. so what is your take away after talking to these people at length? i just want to know. how did you feel going in? what did you think you were going to get and what did you get walking out? >> they were fatscinating. this is a very cultureally economically diverse group. six men and six women, six leaning republican independents and six republicans. there was unemployed to a baker in the room. unemployed working class, middle class and upper middle class. no one really rich but people what made over $200,000 a year. there was a reasonable spectrum. and i said yesterday on the show

people rose to not a summer fling. the second thing is that his economic success as a capitalist is what it initially gets him over the credibility bar for people not the immigration rhetoric, not the -- even the establishment rhetoric but a business person who built stuff and they know. that the third thing is one of us thing is very powerful and they all know he's really different from them in that he's a billionaire and lives in a skyscraper and has a private jet. the way they define one of us is he's not one of them. one of them is a politician. politicians, washington people bad. >> he doesn't talk like them he talks like us. if he's pissed off, it doesn't take you 30 minutes to figure out he's pissed off, it takes him three seconds. he says what he thinks. and that's why we were talking about this mika that a lot of

times the negative press turns into positive press because he pops off. gets killed by what they consider to be the politically correct press corps and that only makes you like him more. trump speaks his mind and then they knock him around for it. a lot of anger towards the republican party. >> yeah. you know you're talking about particularly for the republicans a base of people who feel like they've been lied to for the last 30 years. all the great promises. elect us. give us the power. we're going to make these things right for you. and they haven't. it all comes to a head during this administration on obama and supreme court and so forth. and so that frustration that, sense of one of us is the key linchpin here. >> donnie it's how you present yourself to the american people which he has done. >> for 30 years. >> but you know mitt romney had a car elevator and it came out and just the most embarrassing for him and kind of this awkward thing he was asked about. donald trump is like yeah i have a car elevator i have ten.

don't you want to have one? >> that's his brand. i know donald a long time. i had him on the show ten times. i did "the apprentice" three seasons. >> you'll probably have him on the new show. >> what you see is what you get. obviously that's the appeal. to joe's point, he is bullet proof. it doesn't matter what he says it's well you want me to be like -- not like everybody else and i'm shining a light on it and so he plays in this political arena but has a shield that nobody else has. it is -- the other word that was used in that is when they xfask of the candidate, who you are interested in? carson. he's different. feels different. so it just -- you want to tune in. literally, figuratively and to me the net, net, net of this he's not going to get elected. >> jeremy really quickly as an

advertising guy, marketing guy, nobody manhattan, nobody in georgetown, nobody in any of the elite circles would have ever guessed that john hil man would have -- john heilemann would have done a focus group with unemployed people, middle class people in new hampshire and the word that comes away several times is one of us. >> okay. >> reaganesque. >> that was the other thing, one of us. he speaks his mind. >> jeremy? >> i was going to say that i think -- >> at the end of the day -- >> go ahead. >> at the end of the day, he certainly not going away. he'll run as independent and get hillary clinton elected. >> i don't think. so all right. jeremy? >> i think a lot of this is aspirational. what these people see in trump is the embodyment of the american dream. a lot of these candidates, whether it's trump or rubio or

jeb, they're all running to restore what they see as the american dream. and he does that for a lot of people. now i think the question is how long do they take him seriously? because trump, he connects with a lot of very serious ideas. but fundamentally, he has to present himself as a serious candidate. i don't know that he's done that yet. >> all right. some other news. hillary clinton registered her worst favorability ratings ever in a university poll released yesterday. just 40% of all voters said they view her favorably while more than half said they have an unfavorable view. when asked if they thought clinton is honest and trustworthy, just 37% of voters said yes while 57% said no. and in hypothetical general election matchups the poll found that she's in a virtual tie with both jeb bush and scott walker. she faired better against donald trump who she is leading by 12 points. and this morning, jeb bush and

hillary clinton will share a stage in ft. lauderdale at the national urban league. later clinton will call for ending the embarkgo with cuba putting her at odds with the two republican presidential candidates with florida ties. clinton's use of a private e-mail server is the subject of a flurry of headlines. clinton's serve her e-mails with information from five u.s. intelligence agencies. according to the roar, fiveeport, five embarrass with classified materials have been found and the one known to be connected with benghazi was among nearly 300 e-mails made public in may. it was improperly released. the intelligence community inspector general has warned there are potentially hundreds of classified e-mails on clinton's private server. >> i want to jump in. durlg this store during this story, you're leaning out. during this story, you're leaning out. i think it is important.

>> there is also a thumb drive. >> i see joe lean in on that story on some occasions. >> i speak for mika which i say it makes us tired. >> i don't think i'm the only one. >> we have to go back to the united nations press conference and you hate to say this she just didn't tell the truth time and time and time and time again. and when we were watching it, we were cringing. we weren't cringing for any other reason other than we know her. we like her and you just sit there saying who has sent you out to say things that you know are false and that we know will be revealed the next week or month? i had a call into the mccain person who obviously said something that wasn't true. i said to him, do you not think the sun is not going to rise tomorrow and i'm not going to find out that you're lying to me? this is a long game buddy. you can't just go around lying.

the sun comes up tomorrow. you're going to get caught. and for them to be -- let's just get to -- hillary said there are no classified e-mails. i don't know where to begin. and inspector general for the intelligence agency says, yes, there may be hundreds. and this doesn't even include all the e-mails she destroyed. she wiped out unilaterally by herself in getting rid of the drive. it's stunning. >> you have a brain and you're told we've given you all the e-mails. they haven't. so why do they keep saying that? >> they haven't. and they keep lying you to. they say you is all the e-mails. no. they destroyed, what 35,000. and they won't turn over the server. now you know why. even the ones that they cherry

picked are very sensitive and dangerous. >> what? >> john heilemann? >> there's a lot in that. there's a lot to react to. i'm trying to figure out which one i should go for. >> actually there's not that much. >> there is a lot, actually. >> it's either she handed over e-mails and she should have done it or she didn't. >> well i've always said -- she should have never had a private server in the first place. start. there it is a big problem? so far they have not been able to because of the weak competition and because of people's eyes glazing over they've been able to bull their way through this without this being of catastrophic political consequence so far. it is, i think, taking a long term churning kind of toll on her. if you look consistently now over the months her numbers on

honest and trustworthy are getting worse and worse. and they have argued now for months that it's not really getting -- it's not that bad. people trust her to fight for them. whatever. if you look at the numbers over the -- ever since this scandal issue, whatever you want to call it started, she's got worse and worse on a key indicator for the general election. that issue which is honest and trustworthy. is it taking a long term political toll? i think it may be. >> on contrast with the trump story. very simple. that is the complete symbolism of a politician caught in a mess, the way it works and e-mails and versus trump. i want to make america great again and i have a red hat and tell it like it s i want to watch one show and not the other show. it's that simple. >> keep focusing on bernie sanders and the head-to-head matchup. this is hillary running against herself. >> yeah. >> this is like a cross country runner. this is like a marathon runner

training. she's not doing this against anybody else. she's doing it against herself. you look at the q polls in the swing states where her favorability ratings are down 15, 20 25 30%. when you look at these numbers, its not bernie sanders at the end of the day. it's the joe bidens it's the john kerrys. it's the whoever else decides to jump in. i had people last week tell me at dinner oh, well it's early. it's never too early to be freaked out running out of the theater with your hair on pfeifer and favorabilities are minus 30. it's never too early. >> sound like someone who maybe done that. >> no. i would freak out if my favorabilities were plus 20. why does everybody hate me? >> that's the key thing. the favorability is in one sense a leading indicator. but it is also a lagging indicator. one of the things to john's point will catch up with her when she gets into a general

election campaign. because when people really start to focus, if they didn't like her now, how much more are they going to like her then? that's her problem. >> and with all the dynamics and the clear connectivity that donald trump has with his audience, whether the echo chamber likes it or not, that one of us connectivity the only other person in the horizon that has that i think genuinely is joe biden. >> yeah. >> he does. >> mika, i just got this text in from joey. joey, i hope you're right. he says it sounds about right. hillary's trustworthy numbers are worse than bill's were after he admitted he lied under oath. >> how about joey scarborough on that. >> it's 6:21. >> to your point about never being too early, to me she's one of the best known political commodities in american life. people know who this woman is.

key word is commodity. >> it's not too early to be concerned. because of the fact that to have those kind of numbers, the fav and unfav numbers, to be so far up side down she is not introducing herself to the country. she's a known commodity and yet her numbers on the key metrics are getting worse all the time. and that is the reason why you be concerned. how does she fix that? how does she reintroduce herself to the country? what new positive information does she have to bring to the table? it's a challenge for her and a big one. >> and it's like if you're looking at socks. but you look over two years. if you see this right? that's hillary. if you put hillary where she was two years ago at a 6 a%5% approval rating and then you see this and it's going into the ground and all of her people have the head stuck in the same ground and

saying it doesn't matter. it's too early. no. not with this kind of numbers. and not with the mood of the country. >> all right. still ahead, the battle over planned parenthood heats up. a fourth undercover video is released and now the fight over fund kog lead to another government shutdown. plus -- >> can we go back to trum snp. >> sets his sights on two more republicans, now ted is railing hard against mitt romney and jeb bush. >> okay. >> i think, mika a lot of people know it's now or never to get attention. and draw contrast between yourself -- it's interesting. ted said he wouldn't attack trump because he thought -- >> because he's scared. >> he thought the republicans would attack him. here's a guy that we love to attack every day. >> he's scared. >> what are you talking about? >> oh, please. stop. i know he's really smart, but -- >>, so bill i'm driving back

with my kids yesterday from mystic. zbh but >> beautiful day. >> today is a great day to go to the aquarium. maybe go to mystic pizza, have ice cream at the draw bridge. everything is fine. and then typhoon mary sweeps us of 95. that was the hardest rain. i am a florida guy. that was unbelievably bad weather yesterday coming up the east coast. >> yeah. the whole line went from boston all the way south to d.c. just so humid. when that cold front tried to come through, it was torrential rain for a half hour. now we get to see what they experience in the desert southwest. a dry heat in the mid-atlantic and northeast. it's still hot but a lot less humid. you'll feel it this afternoon. the cold front moved off the coast. the dry air and less humid air. that was in the great lakes and ohio valley yesterday is pushing to the eastern seaboard. over the weekend, it's going to be dry. but it's still going to be warm. some even would call it hot. but considering how humid this last week was, it will feel a lot more comfortable especially

in the shade as you go throughout the next couple of days. so low 90s upper 80s. the cream heat continues in the northwest. it was 103 in portland. seattle yesterday was in the 90s. going do it again today. they've had more 90 degree day this is summer. they don't have air conditioner in chicago. it continues to be warm across the country. we don't have as many extremes all the way through sunday. in florida, you'll duck the afternoon storms, that's typical. chicago to minneapolis sunday afternoon, you may have to deal with a few thunderstorm. overall this weekend looks really nice for the end of july. we're funlly done lyfinally done with a lot of our extreme heat. still looking for the first heat wave of the summer. you may get it over the next three days. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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♪ 28 past the hour. it's time to work. >> get my glasses on. >> ted cruz finds himself at

odds. it centers on the republican senator and presidential candidate saying that nuclear deal with iran would "make the obama administration the world's leading financier of radical islamic terrorism." wow. that prompted romney to tweet, i'm a posed to the iran deal but senator ted cruz is way over the line on the obama terrorism charge. hurts the cause. he has to sort of like be the dad. cruz then went after romney in a radio interview and jeb bush for saying mike huckabee is wrong to compare the nuclear deal to the holocaust. >> and when you send billions of dollars to jihadists trying to kill americans, you bear responsibility for the murder that they carry out with the money you have given them. and, you know one of the reasons republicans keep getting clobbered is we have leaders like mitt romney and jeb bush who are afraid to say that.

part of the reason mitt romney got clobber bid barack obama is because we all remember that third debate where barack obama turned to mitt romney and said i said the benghazi attack is terrorism and no one is more upset about benghazi than i him. he said never mind i'll just rearrange the pencil on the podium here. it was really unfortunate in the past couple of weeks to see jeb bush, number one attacking mike huckabee for speaking out about the incredible threat a nuclear iran poses to israel and this i agree with prime minister benjamin netanyahu and mike huckabee both. he said this nuclear iran poses a threat to israel. i'm sorry, jeb bush is wrong. we shouldn't shy away from saying that. >> hold on. let me say. that i've said it for a zillion

years. you know? i'm a zillion years old. a nuclear iran poses a threat to israel. and if iran ever gets a nuclear weapon, it is the responsibility of the united states to back israel and any other country to go in and militarily destroy those nuclear weapons. wipe them out. wipe them clean off the face of the earth. that's not a radical right-wing thought. thomas freedman was on the show last week and said that congress should pass an authorization for a president to go in militarily and destroy nuclear weapons if iran ever builds them. that's far different than saying that john kerry and barack obama are marching six million jews into an oven and incinerating them. >> i mean come on. >> far, far different. i will tell you the rhetorical

game that those on the right are trying to play the game had a is trying to be played michael, is that if you don't agree with people that are saying these most outlandish things because i guarantee you if iran ever ultimately crosses that red line there will be israeli jets and american jets and this to our friends in iran that are watching we won't be coming to get you. and we will destroy your weapons. we're not going to stay there for ten years. we're just going to blow a lot of things up arrest a lot of leaders, try you for war crimes and then we're coming home. but to suggest that somehow if you don't want to talk about marching jews into ovens and incinerating them like hitler that you're soft on this iran deal, that jeb is soft on the iran deal is outrageous. >> it's outrageous. i think it plays to the requirement now to outtrump or

get into a position where your message is sort of elevated above. and so what you see with someone like cruz is he's finding his friends. so it's trump and huckabee. he's trying to fibldnd his friends. what does that mean politically? it means when those campaigns falter or fail that support comes to him. it's a calculation that exposes him. >> i want to use that word calculation. when trump says something outrageous, it's authentic. and there is something -- that's yes gets the pass. when you get the sense as absurd as what cruz said is it's very calculated. and there's a difference. >> it's needy desperate, totally disingenuous, dirty, ugly. >> it's real. >> oh, come on. oh, come on. what they said i can't call dirty, ugly needy, desperate and absolutely inappropriate? really? do you really want to challenge me on that? >> i'm going to back away. >> no way.

no way. >> i've been away for six weeks. i've seen a dynamic changing here. >> i'm scared of her. >> i never saw fear before. >>, no i'm scared of her. you should have seen her a couple days ago. we brought in this -- >> he was here during that. >> you could see it on camera. joe went like. this he was like this. >> it's like keep your arms and legs inside the window. >> you really to. yeah. >> you know i'm right. that's why you're backing away. >> it's like the san diego wild animal park. >> i'm a little tired these days. i'm not going to have a filter. >> all right. coming up desperate times call for desperate measures. we're desperate around the table and very scared but we're not talking about meek yashgsika but where they're trying to make the cut for next week's fox news debate. if i were in their position i would do the same thing. we'll be right back.

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as far as preparing for the debates, i am who i am. i don't know. i never debated before. i'm not a debater. i get things done. i build. i create jobs. nobody does better. that's what i do. you know they debate every night of their life. that's all they do is debate. they debate all over the place. and nothing happens. so i'm sort of the opposite. >> that was donald trump talking about his debate strategy. campaigns are loving a hard to find a way in.

a new york magazine that campaigns are trying to figure out what polls fox news will use to determine the top ten. and that allies of rick perry are calling chairman and ceo roger ails to lobby him directly. tenths of percentage points separate john kasich and rick perry. it's based on national polls. some say don't really give an accurate picture of the race. msnbc political correspondent kacie hunt reports on the length sometimes candidates are going to make a splash and make the stage. ♪ >> reporter: what won't republicans do to get on to the debate stage? >> what you would say to mr. trum fp he were saying that in your president snens. >> let's get a pull up bar out there and see who can do the most pullups. >> reporter: the bottom of the pack is turning to physical stunts and harsh words trying to drive up their national poll

numbers. >> stay in the race just stop being a jack ass. >> reporter: trump is guaranteed a spot on stage and that scrambling debate prep for the other candidates who are on track to be there, too, jeb bush scott walker marco rubio and rand paul. >> if i stood at a podium and debated a large number of people. two hours i'm going to be in the lion's den right? >> reporter: further back mike huckabee, ted cruz and ben carson. chris christie is airing it out on fox to try to stay in the mix. and john kasich is on the bubble. currently out, rick perry, jobby jindal carly fiorina and lindsey graham. kasich's last minute push was done the old fashioned way, the super pac is spending millions to air that ad in new hampshire. this fight to get on stage comes after the republican national committee took control when nearly two dozen debates in 2012 led to a string of difficult moments. >> i stepped in it man. yeah. it was embarrassing. of course it was. >> i'd like to have an american

on the moon before the chinese get there. >> i'll tell you what. $10,000, $10,000 bet? >> i'm not in the betting business. >> reporter: the rnc was betting that cutting the number of debates in half would help. but this time around there are 16 serious candidates and senators, governors, and the man who won iowa in 2012 are about to get left out. >> i'm not as excited about the idea of you know picking winners and losers if you will nine months out or eight months out or seven months out. >> i'm curious as to what you think about potentially not having a place in the debates. we had a pretty interesting conversation. >> i think it sucks. >> yeah. >> i think it sucks. >> i think it sucks, too. >> and kacie joins us now. wow. could there be any last minute changes and when are they going to announce who is in? >> i think it's come down to rick perry versus john kasich

for that final slot. i think almost any way you slice it. who knows, could get late surprises. we may have one or two national polls come out. the process is fairly opaque as to which exactly they're using and how they're going to weight the form l.a. they're so close at the bottom of the pack. kasich and perry, especially perry, he is trying to take a mulligan on his race in 2012 and it's the debate stage that screwed him up. >> yeah. it really is. i don't know if he needs it or should stay away from it. >> i don't know. how important it is michael, that they get on the top tier? is this a nonstory at the end of the day? somebody shines in the earlier debate. >> yeah. i think because the process is so arbitrary and opaque no one knows -- everybody knows the national polls mean absolutely nothing right now. a better barometer would have been using first three states you know south carolina iowa new hampshire, and average of that maybe. but i think for a lot of these

folks, they're going to make some noise next week. >> yeah. >> they have to. because the national thing is beginning to form is your campaign is done if you're not on that first stage. that's unfortunate. the one thing we tried to do in setting up for 2012 was to give every candidate who didn't have the big bucks and didn't have the big name id bhutut had ideas an opportunity to voice their views. if i'm a candidate, i'm not sitting at a kiddy table at 5:00 in the afternoon. this is not happening. so if you're serious about your presidential race, you're going to make noise next week whether fox wants you to or not. >> yeah. >> you know the other aspect of this, joe, that is entertaining is all these people would have been preparing candidates for decades for these kinds of debates, they have no idea what to do with this one. donald trump is standing in the center of the stage. there is plenty of ways to strategize about what to tell your guy. here's how, okay scott walker is leading in eye ichlt at this

point no one has any idea. >> exactly how to approach. this it looks like we could get jeb bush donald trump and scott walker in the center of that stage. >> that's amazing. we're going. are you going? >> i'm going. >> come on. >> we'll see you there. "morning joe" will be live in cleveland next friday morning for the debate. if you're in the area come join us. we're going to be at flannery's pub starting at 5:30. oh really? >> that is a disturbing picture. look at that picture. super imposed two of the three of us in there. we're not going to tell who you. >> that's just uncomfortable. >> why? >> we have to work on that art work. that is next friday. he attended president obama's briefing for the nuclear deal with iran. dan kilde takes us inside the meeting and why he now supports the agreement.

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we don't want them ever to be exchange ford a concession. we have removed the association of the americans into this negotiation. >> this is a marine that said i don't care what do you with me do not include me in these negotiations. i will stay here for life. >> that was democratic congressman dan kilde michigan and man tell williams speaking on the capture of a marine who is imprisoned in iran. we've been following the stories and wondering how they play in the big picture. congressman kilde is here after pledging support in favor of the obama administration and the iran nuclear deal. congressman, good to have you on the show this morning. back again. what was the process that had you -- put this position forward? is there any hope of getting him home? >> first of all, for me it's

been about a 2 1/2 year process. i've been involved in the iran process since i took office. i took a very careful approach mitt with people on both sides of the question and ultimately consulted with harvard university experts on nuclear weapons and met with the president finally and con sumented with -- >> what did you tell you to make you support an iran deal that all republicans that i've talked to and a lot of democrats are really concerned about? >> well it wasn't just the president's persuasion that affected my decision. it was a part of it. he was able to answer the questions. what specifically. what do americans have to focus on whether they support this deal or not? >> the focus on my question was whether or not we still had as a nation and as a world all of the

option that's are currently available to us to intervene in iran militarily as you said earlier in the show if in fact iran either cheats or at the end of the agreement decides to violate the terms of the nonproliferation treaty and move toward the weaponization of nuclear weapons. >> do you feel we have the option to attack them militarily if they end up breaking the agreement with us? >> i think we have stronger standing to use that tool because we would have given diplomacy a chance and in order to have international support for military intervention which i think would be critical i think it's really important that the united states be willing to give the diplomatic process an opportunity. it's less treacherous than the path forward if the agreement is rejected. >> if you learned that iran was, in fact building a nuclear weapon would you support military action to stop the building of that weapon?

>> i would. >> would you? >> i would. i don't think there is any doubt that the united states should use any intervention available including military intervention to keep iran from developing a nuclear weapon. >> are you concerned? a lot of people are concerned about the 24-day waiting period for inspections. it zptdoesn't make a lot of sense to people from the outside. what have you learned in this process that gives you more comfort that that's not a deal breaker? >> well both from secretary muniz and graham alice and i asked this question they're convinced there is no practical way that iran could conceal evidence that they were -- had a clandestine effort to develop nuclear material for weaponization. so the 24-day requirement has to do with undisclosed sites that would be discovered and would allow inspection within 24 days. and again, nobody that i've spoken to really understands the

psychics involved has been able to say that there wouldn't be a way for us to detect even after a much longer period of time. >> right. the radioactive contents. all right. congressman dan kildee thank you for coming back and talking about it. absolutely fascinating. next joint chiefs chairman like you never seen him before. >> ever. >> he brings his "up town funk" next on mnch"morning joe," when i think of general dempsey what do i think of? >> "uptown funk." e'll log in with her smile. he'll have his very own personal assistant. and this guy won't just surf the web. he'll touch it. scribble on it. and share it. because these kids will grow up with windows 10. get started today. windows 10. a more human way to do.

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♪ because uptown funk going to give it to you ♪ >> martin dempsey brought "the uptown funk" to an event for children for military families in washington, d.c. on thursday. here is how he responded when asked if he thought failure plays a role in success. >> you know it's like i get knocked down and get up again. right? i'm trying to connect to the kids here. >> yeah. >> and then their fathers. >> you don't want me to break into "uptown funk" do you? ♪ don't believe me just watch ♪ >> how about that? connected with the kids by bringing up a 20-year-old song. i love it. >> leading the kids to a rousing rendition of the unicorn song

complete are hand motions which actually exists. >> not bad, good for him. >> we should. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> if you talk long enough -- >> come on. let's see what they got. come on. and we'll hear it. i don't think we ever pumped up to that song. >> let's see what you got. >> let's not start now. >> much more about that compelling focus group about the new hampshire republican voters. why they want to hire trump to be the next president and what they expect from the presidency. chuck todd eugene robinson they join the conversation. plus nbc news obtains a very troubling government areport about how many chinese spies are striking inside the u.s. for the first time we see all their targets. pete williams will join us with that report. ♪ i get snokknocked down but i get up again ♪ >> yeah! when you're not confident your company's data is secure the possibility of a breach can quickly

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he speaks the truth. >> and what truth is that? >> when he talks about, especially immigration control and the border he really -- he doesn't care what people think. >> unchoreographed. >> he is honest. >> i like his roughness and little reaganesque. >> he's not a politician. >> he's not going to be like he said, i won't be bought off. >> trump is a threat. >> yep. >> he doesn't fit in the same box all the other republicans are in. >> he's like one of us. he may be a millionaire and separates him from everybody else, but besides the money issue, he is still in tune with what everybody is wanting. >> when he referred to some illegal immigrants as rapists

did that bother people? didn't bother people? what was your reaction to that or didn't you notice it? >> i didn't notice. >> it didn't bother me. >> didn't bother me. >> he said he'll put a wall down on the southern border. when you talk about common sense, that's the common sense thing to do. >> i knew that he was a wealthy successful man and i remember asking my mother if i could write him a letter to ask him how he made his money so that i could do it too. >> even as a very young kid, the word trump meant rich to you. >> it meant success. >> i think he's a successful person. >> he's successful. i want to be a billionaire. >> how can i begrudgeon that? he worked hard. >> what do you think trump presidency would look like? >> classy. >> it would like to see the debt clock going the opposite way. >> i think we can be a proud america again. >> to the american people it will be a presidency of hope. >> isn't that interesting that trump is aspirational. you didn't hear this thing with mitt romney. >> totally different. that's the one of us thing. >> one of us.

>> romney was the other guy. >> the question i have is if you're the other 16 presidential campaigns preparing for next week's debate and you're seeing and hearing the language coming out of this focus group, what do you think right now? how are you going into this debate? what's your psychology knowing that the guy who is standing on the stage is one of us for them? >> let me tell you one thing you don't do and let's bring in chuk todd chuck todd from washington and eugene robinson who is a close and personal friend of donald trump over the last several weeks. one thing do you not do and that is -- and i'll talk about my brother yesterday. i said he loved jeb until jeb attacked trump. and now he has no use for him. he loved perry until perry attacked trump. got no use for him. because that's the establishment. you want to make you're self look like the scared establishment, attack this

insurge enlt. look what john heilemann found from the focus group on other republicans attacking donald trump. >> i don't think he reps the republican party and his views are way out of the mainstream of what republicans think. he's not a stupid guy. so i don't assume he's like he thinks that every mexican crossing the border is a rapist so much he's doing this to enflame and to insight. >> so there is jeb bush. what do you think about that criticism of donald trum snp. >> what are the fringe ideas that he's putting out there that the mainstream conservatives don't agree with? what is he talking about? >> i think it's jealousy. i think he probably doesn't like how trump is doing right now. and i think he wants anything he can do to discourage him. he can make himself better and sway the people towards him. >> just take him off my list. >> and then same thing happened with rick perry. he attacks trump. john heilemann, they pounced. >> we played the perry speech and there were people in the room who literally said you

know, i like rick perry until i saw. that and they said he seems scripted. he seems pompous. i thought rick perry was a good guy. he looked like one of guys in the establishment. a number of them would say that trump is -- these guys perry, bush others, they're reacting this way because trump is a threat to their candidacies and because he's a threat to the republican party and the old order that they represent. so it's both sides. and he's upsetting the apple cart and they view the attacks on trump as signs of defensiveness and jealousy. >> here's the problem the other candidates have. if they don't, they seem like milk toast compared to the guy that says what he feels. so there is this box that they're in. >> and chuck todd you know a lot of people love to say it's too early to talk about this. too early to talk about that. that's nonsense. all of the side issues are raising the money. they're building support. the building the coalitions. that takes more than a couple of weeks to take place.

but next week at the debate, that's opening day of this election season. and it is a massive -- preseason is over. donny deutsche touched on it. the question that 16 republicans are asking what do we do? how do we treat trump? we attack him we lose support. if we don't attack him, we look weak. >> look, i go back to watching jeb bush. i go back to something. joe, do you remember when jeb bush criticized mitt romney right after the debate in arizona of the primary debate where he shook his head. he didn't like what romney did on immigration at the time and he said i thought i was conservative. i don't know if i would be. but he was then critical of romney and he was critical because he felt romney was hurting himself for the potential general election. which i think tells you where jeb's head is at. and it will be interesting to see if he keeps that focus the entire time every time he shares a debate stage with donald trump. i say every time now. i think the idea that this is

going to be a one time thing, i think everybody needs to put that notion aside and stop wishing trum april way. i -- trump away. i think the guy is in this for the long haul. that's why jeb is saying what he's saying. he's trying to figure out what will this look like if i'm the nominee. but in the meantime boy, seeing that focus group -- you know john heilemann i'd like to ask you, i get the sense that if you asked that group this question and you may have done it that's why i'm asking you this. what do you feel like government's done for you in the last ten years? what do you feel like the republican party has done for nut last ten years? i get a feeling that is a group people that feels government and politics let them down and that's why -- and that may be as much of an attraction to trump as anything. >> absolutely right. i didn't ask that question quite framed that way. but over the course of 100 minutes listening to this group talk about their relationship with the republican party and to be clear, some of them liked -- some of them expressed a fondness or affection or semisupport for jeb bush ted

cruz, a variety, marco rubio, john kasich. but collectively, the view of the republican party and the institutional arrangement that support it is skeptical and frustrated. there was a lot of you know what is so great about this republican party as currently constituted? what has the republican party done for me lately? what are the big wins? we lost five of the last six elections. why isn't it time for a change and something different? >> you asked what a trump presidency might look like. take a look. >> try to tell me what you think a trump presidency would look like. >> better america. >> it would be cleaned up. >> yep. >> you wouldn't have all these departments within the government wasting away having secret e-mail accounts and servers. you just wouldn't have that. he would clean house and ensure that america is on the path to prosperity again. >> cut out the czars and bureaucracy. >> absolutely. >> department of this and

department of that and -- >> i think it will be exciting. >> yeah. >> i really do. i'd look forward to it. an interesting thing every day. >> yep. >> i think it already more transparent. >> it will be nice to see that debt clock going the opposite way. >> what do you think a trump presidency would look like? >> classy. i feel like he would bring a lot of companies back to our country and be a lot more promising than it is and has been. >> yep. >> i think it would be to the american people it would be a presidency of hope. >> that's it. >> he allows people to dream. it's a -- some of the things they're saying were, of course could never -- clean up the departments. get rid of all the departments. he gives people permission to dream. should he? >> some would say he gives them hope and change. >> did somebody already say that? >> that is actually, gene that remains -- change is the most

powerful brand in politics. it has been for a very long time. you add hope to it. whether it's a realistic hope or not. and i argue that years ago barack obama wasn't a realistic hope. try telling that to 52% of americans. i mean that is a powerful counter punch there. >> where have we heard this before? hope and change are very powerful. my favorite response in that roundtable though was classy. i love it. that's so trump. look this is a phenomenon that i keep writing several times that republicans are whistling past the graveyard if they think this is suddenly going to collapse or go away. because i don't see actually how he's not in this for, you know almost as long as he wants to be. until people start voting and then we'll see how he does. but what's going to drive him out of the race? i don't think it will be this debate. he's good at being on television. he's good at projecting a

persona. he's good at filibustering. so i think he'll answer the question he wants to answer rather than the one that is asked. and this is -- i cannot wait until next thursday. i just can't wait. >> and what happens next thursday john if donald trump comes to the stage and everybody's attacking donald trump and he sits there and actually muted. you actually have -- let's say, you know the other candidates have to be careful. >> i agree. >> if all of them start teaming up on trump and smiles and says, what? are you really that scared of me? why are you all attacking me? then suddenly you have sort of a freaky friday where every, you know everything changes. >> it's a very difficult tactical challenge for the candidates and the debate. one thing that came out of the groups that we haven't talked about is i was fascinated by -- i ran through a bunch of things in the group about trump's

political views in the past and what they knew about them. and although they know a lot about him as a capitalist and businessman, they don't know that much about his political history. >> but did they care? >> the thing thezs they didn't care about that he gave money to democrats, was a big supporter of hillary clinton. they didn't worry about that. i don't care about that. i said you know they went -- the clintons went to trump's wedding. >> i don't care about that. they didn't care about the money giving or the fact he was pro-choice. >> they care about anything. >> the one thng they cared about is he had been supportive of single payer. single payer health care. no one in the room knew about that. it is the one time where everybody was wait a minute. the two things that bothered them one was single payer. that's how -- that's the system they have in can d.a. we don't like that. and second didn't he -- he attacks obamacare but he was in favor of single payer? is that a flip-flop?

maybe. interesting. i need to know more about that. >> what is interesting, chuck todd is donald trump has been asked if he's going to back off of that position. and at least in the clip i saw he said no. i think everybody deserves health care in america. >> yeah. he sort of -- i think he certainly is -- owes us all details what that would look like. you can get rid of -- don't forget, hey, there are a lot of people on the left that attack obamacare because it's not single payer. so there is a way of attacking that. i think that tells you, by the way, how obama care's been messaged on the right that it is seen synonymous with the idea that it is single payer or government run. but i think that's -- you know the next phase of the trump campaign is going to be to sort of meet that next threshold of legitimacy is putting out some details. what is his health care plan going to look like? he talked about a universal

safety net for people below the poverty line. that sounds like an expansion of medicaid to me. so what is that going to look like? how does he sl it? how does he pay for it? that's the next step probably in trying to take his 20% and turning it into 30%. >> all right. hillary clinton registered her worst favorability rating ever in a q poll released yesterday. just 40% of all voters said they view her favorably but more than half said half said they have an unfavorable view. 37% of voters said they is trustworthy and 57% said no. in a hypothetical general election matchup, poll found she is in a virtual tie with jeb bush and scott walker. she faired better against donald trump who she is leading by 12 points. hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server is once again the subject of a flurry of headlines. clinton's serve her e-mails with

information from five u.s. intelligence agencies. according to the report five e-mails with classified material had been found so far and the one known to be connected to benghazi was among near will he 300 e-mails made public in may. intelligence officials say it was improperly released. the intelligence community inspector general has warned there are potentially hundreds of classified e-mails on clinton's private server. separately, there is reportedly a thumb drive holding copies of the e-mails kept on clinton's server including according to political he could e-mails with classified information. clinton's private lawyer who has security clearance has it. and the state department is reportedly taking "appropriate measures to secure it." senator chuck grassley asked the fbi to make sure it is. and yesterday clinton responded to claims the state department was not turning over e-mails fast enough. >> i think we have been proceeding in a timely fashion. and, indeed the vast majority

of the e-mails that i turned over and that are being turned over by others were already in the state department's system. so this is really a question for the state department. they're the ones that are bearing the responsibility to sort through these thousands and thousands of e-mails and determine at what pace they can be released and i really hope that it will be as quickly as possible. >> not true. that last statement is just not true. >> right. >> and since she ran the state department, couldn't she ask them to hurry up? >> you have a federal judge, chuck todd that, is saying what the hell is taking too long? this state department, john kerry's state department purposely dragging their feet. it is a slow drip by drip by drip process. and you just start with her saying at the very end she wants them released as quickly as possible when a federal judge is

taking on the state department for not releasing them in a timely manner. you sort of wind all the way back up to the top of that story that talks about some very disturbing poll numbers for hillary clinton. yes in august of 2015. unpack this for us. >> first of all, it's a burden on the state department because hillary clinton made it a burden on the state department. she made the choice to have the private e-mail server. she made the choice to do it this way. and then she dumped all this on the state department and said oh, no go release it in a timely fashion. wait a minute. if they had been archiving in a timely fashion from the get go we wouldn't be in this position. she could have released a lot more of this now a lot sooner on her own. >> chuck, can you help us out here? maybe you have better intelligence than we do. the white house, obviously, very disturbed by how hillary clinton handled the e-mail. you talked to top people --

>> they made it clear. >> they are angry that she didn't follow the regulations. they said we passed regulations in 2009 to make sure this didn't happen and she deliberately ignored the regulations. she deliberately ignored direct direct orders from us. and they're very angry. and, yet, their state department is dragging their feet. i'm trying to figure out what is the white house doing? are they covering for hillary clinton even though they're angry with hillary clinton? we can't really sort it out. >> i can't either. maybe let's give them the benefit of the doubt. maybe they are overwhelmed with having to deal with a backlog of information that has been dumped on them. at the end of the day, the reason it's taking a long time is because hillary clinton chose to do it out of the norm out of the way it was done. she can claim she's doing the

same protocol as colin powell but that was basically a half generation ago in how communications were dealt with. it is a classic deflection and sort of confusing the matter in the moment. it has had an impact. it is fed a narrative. i've been trying to figure out what motivate herd to decide to use a private server? it's very possible that her and her political team are paranoid about house republicans and have been for years. are paired noid about transparency and have been for years. they said we're going to make this as hard as possible for congress to sort of poke around our personal affairs. so we're going to do something that hasn't been done before. we're going to try this private server route. whatever their motivation was, it only feeds a perception that doesn't take long to be triggered with american voters. that's what's happened here. >> that is the best reason. >> she triggered it.

>> that is the best reason. >> best case scenario. >> that's a best case scenario. >> and it's not a good one. >> exactly. i know. what is the motivation for the private server? what's on the thumb drive? everything that was on the server? >> i don't know. and if there is -- and if they did hold that thumb drive, somebody -- a lawyer probably said you better hold that thumb drive because if all of this come out and there's an investigation on the criminal investigation and you destroy evidence, you better -- you better have that thumb drive. >> have you ever read the book "if you give a mouse a cookie"? >> yes. >> you know that whole. that is -- i'm sort of i guess how the clinton folks are thinking. right? they believe if they turn over the server then they'll go poking around something and make hay out of something that's nothing. and that's their mindset when it comes to i think dealing with government accountability and government transparency and this

lack of trust that they have in the system. but guess what? if they have a lockack of trust in the system, the system has lack of trust in what she's doing and the votes have a lack of trust in here. >> and gene robinson though of course they say much to do about nothing. hillary said no classified documents here. even with the ones she released not counting 35,000 she destroyed, here's a classified information, five e-mails that of the few they looked over with information from these five intelligence agencies. i guess what stuns me the most about this gene, is just how sloppy this has been handled from the very beginning by somebody who's been in the game since 1978. >> yeah. you go back to that first very awkward press availability she had on the issue. and then throughout. to say categorically there is no classified information on them when you're dealing with that that volume of e-mails. and you were the secretary of

state. it seems to me that just the law of averages says there's going to be something in this. i'm not going to find something in there. and we can argue about whether it was classified at the time classified later? should have been classified? but if you're secretary of state, you're not doing your job if you're not reviewing material that is sensitive and that others shouldn't be in the public domain. it goes back to the original decision to have a private e-mail server. that's what it goes back to. i think it goes back to the right-wing conspiracy. >> have a private server. run a foundation that funnels millions of dollars through it and husband who has huge speech money, all those e-mails. it's all in. there. >> that's what ron said from day one. i have to give ron credit, from day one the second all this

exploded, he said clinton foundation. >> yeah. follow the money. a top democrat who support hillary forever said follow the money. that's what the e-mails -- you want to know what the e-mails are about? the e-mails were about all the money. all the communication with foreign governments setting up speeches, setting up this setting up that. even if you're not doing it directly, just working your relationships and suddenly bill's speaking in kazakhstan two weeks later. >> we have 35,000 on the foundation. >> all speculation. we're having to speculate because they wiped out a server. >> all right. >> i think ron was right. >> chuck, thank you. what's coming up on "meet the press." >> alex is yelling in our air. >> ouch. >> he is screaming. i think we only went five or six minutes over chuck. minor detail. >> three minutes over. this is like making it on time. >> what you got? >> we'll have the big final

prefox debate poll. we'll find out who is in our top ten on sunday morning. we'll have dr. ben carson. i'll have the chairman of the republican party, chairman of the democratic party. it's a super bowl preview show right? >> we're going to cleveland. >> he's going to read out loud "the mouse that ate the cookie." >> gene thank you as well. we greatly appreciate you being here. >> coming up the cincinnati police officer charged with murdering an unarmed motorist faces a judge as new video emerges from another officer's body camera. and up next this map shows all the successful chinese hacking attacks in the u.s. in the last five years alone. nearly 700 in total. why is the country so vulnerable? and what the fbi is doing to stop it. pete williams joins us next with an nbc news exclusive investigation.

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are revealing how vulnerable we are to cyber spying. china lone is responsible for hacking into almost 700 u.s. targets and that's just over the last five years. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams joins us live with this exclusive. china hit 49 of 50 states? >> that's right. it is just an example of what the u.s. has been warning about, how aggressively china is engaged in cyber spying. but a classified map dra mat being -- dramatically how wide sprez it's been. >> reporter: as the u.s. scrambles to learn the extent of federal government personnel records said to have been stolen by china, nbc news has obtained a classified government report that shows the remarkably pervasive reach of chinese cyber spying nationwide. this national security agency map shows a red dot for successful computer intrusion by china over the past five years. nearly 700 with computer attacks in every state but north dakota.

the northeast corridor from washington to new york is a massive blob of red and intrusions are clustered around california's silcon valley the pacific northwest and southern california's defense industrial base. among the trade secrets targeted, the specifications for hybrid cars formulas for profitable drugs and workings of civilian and air traffic control system. the fbi says the chinese also target power and telecommunications systems and even some individual u.s. citizens. >> there's no corporate structure out there no matter how small if it's a mom and pop organization that is immune from this threat. >> reporter: the fbi is investigating hundreds of cases of suspected chinese espionage, 53% more than just a year ago with estimate that's chinese economic espionage cost the american economy $300 billion a year. now the fbi is making a big new push to urge american companies to vastly improve their cyber

defenses if there is any good news here, it's that while china is intensely cyber spying the u.s. parentally has the means to know when they're doing it. mika? >> pete williams thank you very much. the fired university of cincinnati police officer charged with murdering an unarmed motorist is now out on bond. we're told 25-year-old ray tensing's father posted the $1 million bail just hours after his son pleaded not guilty in the murder of 43-year-old sam dubose. tensing's attorney says his client feared for his life and did not mean for anyone to die. >> reporter: wearing a very different uniform, former university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing entered court with hands shackled. >> you understand you've been charged with one count of murder and one count of manslaughter. >> yes, your honor. >> pleaing not guilty in the shooting death of sam dubose an unarmed black motorist pulled over for a missing license

plate. bail was set at $1 million. the courtroom erupted. [ applause ] >> ladies and gentlemen! this is a courtroom. >> reporter: tensing's body camera captured the deadly encounter. >> do you have a license on you? >> reporter: after he doesn't produce his license, he asked him to take hoff his seat belt. the officer appears to reach for the door. >> take your seat belt off. >> stop, stop. >> reporter: seconds later, he shoots him in the head and appears to fall. a second video released of the body camera of another officer shows tensing on the ground. tensing's attorney says it was self-defense. >> he thought he was going to die. he thought he'd be sucked under that car and run over as he was pulling away. >> reporter: the prosecutor's office says they're investigating two other officers. one of whom supports his claim that he was dragged was placed on administrative leave. i sat down with dubose's family.

>> he cold blooded shot him for no reason at all. i saw it. i saw it with my eyes. >> reporter: they remember sam as a peaceful man. >> he loved all his kids. and they loved him. they love him so much. >> gene i'm not a forensic's expert but if the police officer was dragged under the car, he was dragged under the car after he shot the guy driving the car. >> exactly. exactly. >> so i don't know how -- oh, i killed the guy so he wasn't able to maneuver and i feared for my lichlt he put himself in that position. >> exactly. there's a sequence problem with that story. and because it certainly appears from the video he shot the guy and then if the car lurched or whatever that's what happened. i mean this is -- you know this raises all kinds of issues. the legal process is underway. i think it's a great thing that

the authorities have moved so quickly into the justice arena to really find out what happened and to meet out if necessary the appropriate punishment. it also raises questions to me about the universities and other institutions like that. they have their own armed police forces which is a problem. that is certainly a problem for the prosecutors there who think this is not a good idea. >> yeah. and michael, you have on the front page of "the new york times" a real crisis for the police. you have the fact that glare of video is shifting the public's view of police. it has been a very very bad year. >> it has been. >> going back to ferguson. oh, yeah. and that -- >> you know the thing that works here is the body camera. the body camera tells you exactly how it happens. so the narrative of i was threatened. i felt threatened.

i was dragged under the car just doesn't prove out. and i think if there's any saving grace from all this is that now the police have the protection of the body cameras, but the civilian does as well. and that's the most important thing. the justice system here now has the extra tool that can work on behalf of citizens and maybe as a result of that joe, this tension that has been built up over the years since ferguson begins to dissipate because the public now has their eye on the situation. >> yeah. no. i mean the people did not believe this was happening for a long time. coming up a fourth undercover video is now out from activists taking on planned parenthood. calls for the government to defund the organization are growing and even supporter hillary clinton is calling the videos disturbing. will the justice department investigate? that story is next. just in case you were wondering what cheerios are made of whole. grain. oats.

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all right. 38 past the hour. the controversy over planned patienthood just got worse. a fourth individual quo has been released from an anti-abortion group that claims it has proof the organization is selling aborted fetal tissue. it comes as congress readies a vote to strip planned parenthood of $5 million in government funding. it is also setting up the possibility of another

government shutdown. >> reporter: by releasing a fourth undercover video, an anti-abortion group is enflaming a controversy over how planned parenthood donates fetal tissue used for medical research. an official describes the public perception of that process. >> i think it makes a lot more sense for it to be in the research. >> reporter: the clinic chose not to ent near a deal with the activists posing as researchers as planned parenthood insists it's doing nothing wrong. >> we follow the law that says can you not sell fetal tissue and we don't. women donate it. there is no selling and there is no profit. >> reporter: this week it's website was hacked as planned parenthood braces for a higher stakes attack in congress prompted by the release of the videos of campaign led by this man. >> is this about a debate over fetal tissue donation or is this about abortion and doing something to make waves to reignite that debate? >> yeah i don't think it's an either/or. i don't think it has to be

either one of those two. this is about documenting and illustrating really clearly for the american people what planned parenthood does to the body parts of the babies that they abort. >> defund planned parenthood. >> reporter: at least 18 congressional republicans are promising to oppose any federal fund of planned parenthood drawing fire by democrats. >> it's another effort by the republicans to, you know try to limit the health care options for women. >> reporter: but even supporter hillary clinton called the videos disturbing. the anti-abortion group says eight clips will be released when analysts say this could lead to a government shutdown. >> wow. >> you know i -- i got to say of all the areas where i think there is media bias the greatest area is on this issue. >> yes. >> i think most reporters do the best job they can do and they try to be as fair as possible.

but when it come to the issue of abortion, there is the greatest built in bias. and it is completely cultural bias. it is unintended. but if the roles were reversed we do this all the time but it's true. there is a group on the right doing what planned parenthood has done on the left and is adescribed on the left, there would be justice department -- there would be indictments already going down. hillary clinton said it. anybody that's looked at these videos michael, still will say it. even if you're pro-choice -- >> it's horrendous. >> what top officials describe is absolutely horrendous. >> no i absolutely agree with you. and the fact of the matter is the press does not dig into this story. if nothing else to prove that the way they brought about this story is somehow flawed or there's a problem. in other words, do the job of investigating what is true and what is real in the story.

that's not happening. you have the their parties that are exposing inside at least the mindset, the conversation that the folks of planned parenthood are willing to have when it comes to fetal body parts. and that is very disturbing for the american people. the congress should defund it and move on. >> and talking about how they abort to preserve fetal body parts to use later, it is -- jeremy, it's obviously -- you know it's disturbing if hillary clinton a long time supporter of planned parenthood talks about how disturbing the videos are. how it is impacting the debate on capitol hill? >> democrats are on the defensive. when looking at this it's important to think about what's different this time around. and what's changed is the anti-abortion movement has gotten much more sophisticated and savvy. frankly, is now a lot more better funded than it used to be in the campaigns to put democrats on the defensive. this wasn't some campaign to sneak a nurse into a clinic

under false pretenses. this way's a three year deliberate effort to learn about a side of abortion practices that nobody really knew about. >> i think what they learned was some rather i think when it's put in front of the public like this alarming and graphic descriptions of how these procedures are carried out. and that's what's different, i would say. now instead of talking about just abolishing a woman's right to choose to terminate her pregnancy, we're talking about an aspect of abortion that is really quite unpleasant and has made even a lot of democrats wince. >> deeply deeply offensive to most americans. this is one of the things you put this in front of most americans and a "60 minutes" store yishgs 80% of americans, 90% of americans will be deeply offended by what is going on in the clinics. the rub here is kacie, it's taxpayer funded. >> it s to be clear, the hyde

amendment forbids money to be made. they use the federal for mammograms and contraceptives and medicaid where they're allowed to use it and only in the case of rape and incest and threat to the life of the moeshlg. this is something that republicans have been talking about for a long time defunding planned parenthood. it's a test issue for social conservatives. it hasn't got real traction. it's something they talked a lot b you haven't seen a lot of action around it. these videos are so graphic and so disturbing that you are seeing this become a legitimate possibility. this funding makes bupabout a third of the revenue. it will be a really serious problem. >> it's making its way into the debate. >> what i don't understand is you get the taxpayer funded. i understand with the hyde amendment that you're funding, what, the largest abortion provider in america? and where they move that money in sil yoes we know how easily.

i guess my question is why is planned parenthood the only organization that can get massive amounts of taxpayer funding when 50% of americans or maybe 45% of americans are pro-life, the number sort of varies there. and most americans don't want their tax dollars supporting abortion let alone an organization that does and talks about what this organization does in the video. >> i agree. i think it's a really good question. i'm not sure i completely understand it myself. i think the answer may lie in republican women and some of the views that are in this generation, the next generation to come. i think they're changing on these issues. contraception and abortion. i think it's a little more convoluted. >> it's more convoluted because

of technology because viability comes at a much much earlier date. and also 3-d imaging. i have never, ever ever ever once heard somebody say would you like to see my fetus that i -- you would like to see my baby? would you like to see my unborn child? look at the nose. jack, 7 years old. i put him to bed last night. 7 years old. i see the profile of his nose which is identical to the profile i saw in the first 3-d imaging that came of him. very early. and, of course, he's apremie. so i learned a lot there, too. i think planned parenthood has a problem and for good reason. >> up next he said he was still in the undecided column on the nuclear deal with iran. we're going to ask democratic congressman and member of the house intelligence committee jim heinz what he is waiting to hear from the white house.

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the content of these agreements in public? why is this classified? it's not a sensitive u.s. document? the iuayatollahs know what they agreed to? >> we respect the process of the iaea, and we don't have the power to reveal it. >> the ayatollahs will know what they agree to and not the american people? >> not exactly because wheal share with you what we understand the contents to be. they negotiated the agreement with the iaea. >> here with us now, member of the house committee on intelligence jim himes. >> that's not his toughest job. what is the toughest job? >> representing a very very diverse district. >> very diverse. >> that's a polite way of saying

it. >> including my constituent, joe scarborough. >> every moment on tv raising hell. >> awful. bringing down property values for everybody. unbelievable. so where are you on the deal the iran deal? have you moved on it? >> i spent a lot of time on it. i have not yet made a final decision. i have access to intel some of my colleagues don't have. i will tell you after a lot of work, i'm leaning positively towards it and i'm not hearing a lot of good answers to the question of what the alternative is. >> let me ask you, question we asked of congressman kildee woo was on earlier today. if you end up supporting this deal would you also support military intervention down the road if they cross the line and started building a nuclear weapon. >> yeah, look i think it's essential that the united states, if we do this deal which i think we will do is we make it very very plain and

very specific what we do in the event that there's any cheating and by the way one of the questions is what if there's small cheating? if there's big cheating snapback, but what if there's small and marginal cheating? it's also important to reassert the fact we're united behind the deal if they make a sprint three years zs from now or 15 years from now, military response is a likely outcome. >> what do we do if they get their $150 billion and three years from now cheat? >> first of all, it's not $150 billion. there's a lot of misinformation out there. $150 billion, most of that is already committed to collateral projects in places like china. listening to the treasury secstaresec secretary secretary, the number on the high end is arth $50 million. >> you're saying this money that is iran's money will go to china for debts. you say it's collateral money. >> it's been used to collateralize money, committed

to projects. the number is a lot less than $150 billion. that doesn't mean there's not money possibly going to hezbollah, to hamas. there's fair criticism of the deal. that's not one of them. the deal was always going to be in exchange for giving up its nuclear program, they were going to get money. once a deal has been made for the opponents to say, holy smokes they're going to get money. that's the point of the deal. that's not comfortable, but that's the point of the deal. >> congressman, thank you very much. >> should i read the tweet? how many more frankensteins need to run amuck before the gop stops assembling the body parts? >> it's hurtful. >> sorry, michael. >> come on. >> i was watching donald trump on tv and that sort of came. twitter had to happen. >> there you go. thank you for coming on. still ahead, a new documentary takes us behind the scenes of the 1968 debates. the secret to their infamous

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up next he may be rich but he's one of us. why donald trump's stock is sky high with new hampshire voters. we have more from john heilemann's fascinating focus group. >> plus hillary clinton hits a new low. his worst favorability retting

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matters most. politically correct person for good reason. i think there's been too much diplomacy, i think there's been too much. i think we're so politically correct in our country that people are sick and tired of it and things aren't getting done. so i don't think, certainly you want to be diplomatic. i mean we're diplomatic in our country and everybody hates us all over the world. we're politically correct, and the world hates the united states. i think i would be very diplomatic. people find that hard to believe, but i think i would be

very diplomatic. i think i would be a great uniter. i think i would have great diplomatic skills. i think i would be able to get along with people very well. i think the world would unite if i were the leader of the united states. >> that was donald trump speaking with reporters yesterday at his golf course in scotland. >> you know what we found out? >> what? >> the hat comes in red as well. >> it's ridiculous. stop. >> i need one of those in red. >> i am sure you could get one. >> i have the white one. >> with us on set, we have john heilemann. those were fascinating focus groups. you got more today? >> oh, yeah. a lot more today. >> okay. >> smorsgasbord. >> donny deutsch has a new show. he has a new show called "donny." >> of course it is. >> i can't wait to see it. i was supposed to be in it. >> two episodes. >> i think you were leading me on.

it's so good. >> picture me and christie brinkley in bed together. our clothes on. it's funny. >> i must have missed the call. >> you were in two episodes. is that not enough? >> no it's not. >> michael steele is here. so nice. sticks to his word and jeremy peters in washington. yes. >> so can we -- >> it's friday. >> can we show the focus groups? >> yeah. >> let's show focus groups. >> what do we have today? that was pretty crazy yesterday. >> we watched that eye-opening focus group. so many people told me yesterday they were blown away. >> got a lot of e-mails on that. >> donny, i don't know if you saw that. >> usually i get hate tweets. >> but a lot of people's eyes opened up by the people supporting donald trump, why they were supporting trump and the fact they weren't all perot supporters, buchanan supporters. a lot of bush supporters people who had cruz as their second

choice. let's hear more of the negative comments. >> this is interesting. >> that they had to say, though about trump. >> what's the thing that you like least about him or the thing that concerns you most about him as a presidential candidate? what's the thing about donald trump, if anything could be nothing if you want. >> i think potentially he could cross over with some inappropriate comment that's going to turn a large number of people off, and it would very much concern me if at that point he was the nominee and it was down to two people. >> what about you, gesjessica? anything about donald trump that worries you? >> in my opinion, what hurt romney was his success and his money. i think that could be trump's down pm fall as much as his asset. it could also be a weakness because of the way people perceive wealth. some of us see it as success and others see it as greed. somehow in america, profit motive has come to equal greed in the mainstream media. >> right. >> when you see a man who runs profitable businesses and is

wealthy, he's a target for people to hate. >> right. john, what about you? anything worry you? >> i think he could shoot himself in the foot. >> all right. >> if he did, he would make money out of it. >> and they laugh about that. john, you talked about the group. talked to the group about donald trump's democratic roots and what would happen if he ran as an independent. >> we mentioned trump was a democrat for a long time. that's true. and not only was he a democrat but he's given a ton of money to democratic candidates. does it bother people in the room that he was a big democratic donor. >> hundreds of thousands of dollars is like me giving them a quarter. >> i don't think it changes where he stands in what's going on now. >> that's the past. >> i don't hold that against him that all of a sudden he's decided that he's more aligned in his thoughts and everything with republican party. >> seems more of an independent.

>> there's been talk lately about the possibility that if trump doesn't get the republican nomination, he might run as an independent candidate as a third party/independent candidate in the general election. let's start with those. you guys who would be open to considering, open to supporting donald trump as an independent candidate, why? >> the only thing i could think of that would force him out is the republican establishment and the rnc doing something and actually forcing him out. if that's the case then i'm voting for trump as an independent and it's going to teach republicans a lesson. >> so for those of you who are -- who wouldn't support trump if he ran as an independent, why would you not support him as an independent? >> ross perot. >> yes. >> you think it would help the elected democrat. >> absolutely. proven. the math doesn't lie. >> all right. so let's listen to some more of the reasons the group is attracted to him. >> he said i won't be bought off. where as anybody else who has

the money, has a chance. >> get washingtonitis, which so many politicians, they go to washington and they become completely, you know they don't work for the constituents anymore. >> the way i see it the political rhetoric most of the politicians talking would say pastel colors. they talk for two hours and you go away saying what did they say of substance? probably nothing. they haven't offended anybody, and tried to make everybody their friend. well if their pastel donald trump is vivid colors because he says things the way they are. >> i'm going to go around the room and ask you to name any other candidate who has struck you as being kind of promising or that you're interested in a little bit. anybody else who you look at and you notice them and think you might be interested in. >> ben carson. >> ben carson. >> no one. >> ben carson. >> can't think of anyone. >> ben carson. >> ben carson. >> ted cruz. >> can't think of anyone.

>> all the lower level guys. all have some very good points but they're just not -- i don't want to vote in a primary for somebody i know that can't make it. >> right. >> ben carson. >> fred? >> no one. >> anyone jump in your mind? >> rubio, carson trump. yeah. good choices. >> andy? >> carson definitely. >> there are a number of you who are romney supporters. jessica is one, i know from other people who are romney supporters in the world. for those of you who were romney supporters do you see romney and trump as sort of similar? >> successful businesspeople yeah. >> i guess in the business sense. >> go ahead. >> as far as his, maybe you can call it electability, i think they're completely different. i think romney was a little too censored. you could see that after the

first debate. he completely fell apart and everybody was wondering what happened to romney. i don't see that happening with donald trump. >> from what i see, he's in touch with what everybody is thinking, what everybody wants. he's in tune with america, what's needed not like they said not what people want to hear. you know he's like one of us. he may be a millionaire, but besides the money issue, he's in tune with what everybody is wanting. >> and there's that line again, mika. he's one of us. >> it's like he's a very good cmo. you know? >> yeah. >> can figure out what -- okay so what's your take away after talking to these people at length? i want to know how did you feel going in? what did you think you were going to get, and what did you get walking out in. >> they were fascinating and i said yesterday on the show this was a very culturally economically diverse group. there were six men, six women.

six independent, republican leaning independents, six republicans. people from unemployed to a banker in the room. we had, you know -- >> wow. >> unemployed working class, upper class, and upper middle class. no one really rich but people who made over $200,000 a year. a reasonable spectrum in terms of economic diversity. i said yesterday on the show people rose not a summer fling. these people are really attracted to trump. i think their attraction is durable. the second thing is his economic success as a capitalist is what initially gets him over the credibility bar for people. not the immigration rhetoric. not the, even the anti-establishment rhetoric but he's a businessman who built stuff and they know that. the third thing is the one of us thing is very powerful. they know he's really different from them in that he's a billionaire and he lives in a skyscraper and he has a private jet, but the way they define one of us is he's not one of them.

one of them is a politician. politicians, washington people bad. >> he doesn't talk like them. he talks like us. if he's pissed off, it doesn't take you 30 minutes to find out it takes you 3 seconds because he says what he thinks. and that's why we were talking about this mika. a lot of times, the negative press turns into positive press because he pops off. he gets killed by what they consider to be the politically correct press corps, and that only makes them like him more. trump speaks his mind and they knock him around for that. a lot of anger towards the republican party, too. >> oh, yeah. well, you know you're talking about particularly for the republicans, a base of people who feel like they have been lied to for the last 30 years. all these great promises. elect us give us the power and we're going to make these things right for you, and they haven't. then all of it comes to a head during this administration on

obamacare, on the supreme court, so forth, and that frustration, that sense of one of us is the key linchpin here. >> donny, it's also how you present yourself to the american people, which he has done. >> for 30 years. >> for 30 years. but mitt romney had a car elevator and it came out and it was the most kind of embarrassing for him. kind of this awkward thing. he was asked about. donald trump is like yeah i have a car elevator. i have ten. don't you want to have them? >> i have known donald a long time. i had him on my show ten times. i did the "apprentice" three seasons. look, what you see is what you get. obviously, that's the appeal. to joe's point, he's bullet bulletproof. it doesn't matter what he says. it's well you want me not to be like everybody else and i'm shining a light on it. so he plays in this political arena, but has a shield that nobody else has. there is -- it is -- the other word that was used in that is

when they asked of a candidate, who else are you interested in. key word interested. they came up with carson. who is different, feels different? so it just -- you want to tune in. >> all right. some other news. hillary clinton registered her worst favorability ratings ever. in a quinnipiac university poll released yesterday. just 40% of all voters said they view her favorably well more than half say they have an unfavorable view. when they asked if they thought clinton was honest and trustworthy, 37% said yes. in hypothetical general election matchup matchups, the poll found she's a in virtual tie with jeb bush and scott walker. she fared better against donald trump who she is leading by 12 points. this morning, jeb bush and hillary clinton will share a stage in ft. lauderdale at the national urban league. later, clinton will call for ending the embargo with cuba, putting her at odds with the two

republican presidential candidates with florida ties. but clinton's use of a private e-mail server is again a flurry of headlines. mcclatchy reports she had e-mails from five different u.s. intelligence agencies. five e-mails with classified material have been found so far, and the one known to be connected with benghazi was among nearly 300 e-mails made public in may. intelligence officials say it was improperly released. the intelligence community inspector general has warned there are potentially hundreds of classified e-mails on clinton's private server. >> i don't know where to begin. and inspector general for the intelligence agency goes yes, there may be hundreds. this doesn't even include all of the e-mails she destroyed. she wiped out unilaterally, by herself, in getting rid of the drive. >> the thing that frustrates me -- >> it's stunning.

>> -- as a person when you have a brain and you're told we've given you all the e-mails, but they haven't. why do they keep saying that? >> it's a lie. they keep lying to you and keep lying to reporters. they say, you've got all the e-mails. no they destroyed, what 35,000? they destroyed them and they won't turn over the server. now you know why. even the ones they cherry picked are -- are very sensitive and dangerous. >> what? >> it's a lot in that. i think -- there's a lot to react to there. trying to figure out which one of the things i should go for. >> actually not that much. >> there is a lot, actually. >> either she handed over e-mails and she should have done it or she shouldn't have. >> i always said she -- she never had a private server in the first place. if you look consistently now over the months that her numbers

on honest and trustworthy are getting progressively worse and worse. they have argued now for months it's not really that bad. people trust her to fight for them. whatever. if you look at the numbers ever since this scandal issue, whatever you want to call it started, she's gotten worse and worse on a key indicator for the general election. that issue, which is honest and trustworthy. is it taking a long-term political polltoll? i think it may be. >> a contrast with the trump story. that's the complete symbolism of a politician caught in a mess the way it works and e-mails versus trump, i want to make america great again and i have a red hat and i'm going to tell it like it is. i want to watch one show and i don't want to watch the other show. it's that simple. still ahead on "morning joe," ted cruz isn't just breaking reagan's 11th commandment to not criticize other republicans. he's throwing it out of window. who he's now going after.

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ted cruz finds himself increasingly at odds with members of his party. mitch mcconnell to mitt romney to jeb bush. it centers on the republican senator and presidential candidate saying the nuclear deal with iran would, quote, make the obama administration the world's leading financer of leading islamic terrorism. romney tweeted, i'm opposed to the deal but senator ted cruz is way over the line on the

obama terrorism line. hurts the cause. he sort of has to be the dad. cruz then went after romney in a radio interview as well as jeb bush for saying mike huckabee was wrong to compare the nuclear deal to the holocaust. >> when you send billions of dollars to jihadists trying to kill americans, you bear responsibility for the murder they carry out with the money you have given them. and you know one of the reasons republicans keep getting clobber clobbered is we have leaders like mitt romney and like jeb bush who are afraid to say that. part of the reason mitt romney got clobbered by barack obama is because we all remember that third debate where barack obama turned to mitt and said i said the benghazi attack was terrorism, and no one is more upset by benghazi than i am. and mitt i guess, listening to his own advice said gosh i don't want to use rhetoric so

okay, never mind. i'll kind of rearrange the pencil on the podium here. it was really unfortunate in the past couple weeks to see jeb bush, number one, attacking mike huckabee for speaking out about the incredible threat a nuclear iran poses to israel and this i agree with prime minister benjamin netanyahu and huckabee both. it poses an existential threat to israel. jeb bush is wrong. we shouldn't shy away from saying that. >> let me say that. and i have said it for a zillion years. because you know i'm a zillion years old. a nuclear iran poses an existential threat to israel. and if iran ever gets a nuclear weapon it is the responsibility of the united states to back israel and any other country to go in and militarily destroy those nuclear weapons. wipe them out.

wipe them clean off the face of the earth. that's not a radical right-wing thought. thomas friedman was on our show last week and said that congress should pass an authorization for a president to go in militarily and destroy nuclear weapons if iran ever builds them. that's far different than saying that john kerry and barack obama are marching 6 million jews into an oven and incinerating them. >> i mean come on. come on. don't repeat it. >> far different. but i will tell you the rhetorical game those on the right are trying -- >> pathetical rhetorical game. >> are trying to play the game trying to be played michael, is that if you don't agree with people that are saying these most outlandish things because i will guarantee you, if iran ever ultimately crosses that red

line, there will be israeli jets and american jets and this to our friends in iran that are watching, we won't be coming to get you. and we will destroy your weapons. we're not going to stay there for ten years. we're just going to blow a lot of things up and arrest a lot of leaders, try you for war crimes and then we're coming home. to suggest that somehow if you don't want to talk about marching jews into ovens and incinerating them like hitler -- >> okay. >> -- that you're soft on this iran deal that jeb is soft on the iran deal is outrageous. >> it's outrageous. i think it plays to the requirement now to outtrump or get into a position where your message is sort of elevated above. so what you see with someone like cruz is he's finding his friends. it's trump it's huckabee. he's trying to find his friends. trump, huckabee. so what does that mean politically? when those campaigns falter or fail that support comes to him.

it's a calculation. >> can't he find a different way to find friends? >> when trump says something outrageous, it's authentic. there's something, that's why he gets the pass. when you get the sense, as absurd as what cruz said is it's very calculated. to that point. there's a difference. the american public will not accept that. >> needy, desperate, totally disingenuous. dirty. >> mika. >> what it is. come on. what they said i can't call dirty, ugly needy, desperate, and absolutely inappropriate? really? do you really want to challenge me on that? >> i'm going to back away. >> no way. no way. >> i have been away for six weeks. i have seen the dynamic change here. something happened. >> ymg scared of her. i'm scared of her. you should have seen her a couple days ago. we brought in this -- >> he actually was here during that. >> horrible. >> you couldn't see it on camera. joe went like this. he was like this. >> i'm very scared. >> keep your arms and legs

inside the window. >> you really have to. when you're -- yeah. >> you know i'm right. which is why you're backing away. >> like the san diego wild animal park. >> coming up on "morning joe," we turned on the tv yesterday, and there they were together at the orioles/tigers day. the daily caller's matt lewis, and ron fournier make the round table the next step on their cross country tour. >> trip across america. also still ahead, god, sex, and politics a behind the scenes look at the explosive 1968 debates between gore vidal and william f. buckley jr. that really was considered to be possibly the start of the -- >> cable news revolution. >> cable news culture. we'll be right back.

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if you would give some other candidates time from 8:00 in the morning until 8:00 at night every day for three weeks i'm guessing some other candidates might rise as well. for example, while some people are hearing about one candidates all the time very few people know i have offered a tax code where you can fill out your tax return on one page 14.5%. if i had a billion dollars worth of advertising and every network going gaga over that i think we could get ours to rise also. there's going to be time for that. i think this is a temporary sort of loss of sanity, but we're going to come back to our senses and look for somebody serious to lead the country at some point.

>> what was that john heilemann? >> a distinct sound of whine in there. a little whiny-ish. >> really? >> cry baby-ish. >> that's coming from you? >> well yes. but i'm not a presidential candidate. at least not yet. >> that was kentucky senator rand paul yesterday offering up his whiny explanation for donald trump's rise in the polls. joining us from washington senior contributor for the daily caller, matt lewis, and director of the national journal, ron fournier. good to have you on. >> was he whining? >> ask matt that. that's your description of it matt. we have two people who said rand paul sounded like a whiner there. what do you say? >> make it three. i agree. >> wow. tough crowd. >> i mean again, as a commentator, i agree with what rand paul said. but coming from a candidate for president, it seems like he's whining, complaining. i mean this is the big leagues. there's no crying in baseball. and i feel like it's not going

to work. i mean if you were to -- if you were to do some sort of a poll test or a focus group on what rand paul just said i think everybody would say he seems like he's whining. i don't think it works. >> matt, can you explain why do republicans like donald trump? can you explain why -- and you know what's so interesting is even the people who we kind of hang out with on twitter, the conservatives that are consistently conservative they don't get trump. it's like not only does the establishment not get trump and the republican establishment not get trump. the conservative establishment doesn't get trump. yet we show these focus groups. there are a lot of working class and middle class people who do. why? >> i can tell you, joe, the 17-year-old matt lewis would have been a trump fan. i would have found it exciting and refreshing and it's only because i've followed politics very closely for the last you know decade or so or more and

know that donald trump's actually a liberal. not really a conservatism. he's actually manipulating -- >> what does 19-year-old matt lewis think about him? >> oh, stop. >> i think he would have been a trump fan, too. >> he is, okay? >> he is older than 19 mika. stop that. mika thinks everybody under 50 is young now. >> yes, i do. the "wall street journal" is pointing out for ron, i'm curious, the extent to which the clinton foundation and mega bank ubs overlap. here's the story. happening particularly during hillary clinton's time as secretary of state. the paper reports in 2009 clinton was alerted by her swiss counterpart the irs was suing the bank to find out which americans have secret accounts there. the journal reports in months clinton announced a tentative legal settlement an unusual agreement by a top diplomat. they turned over information on a fraction of the accounts

sought by the irs. the paper points out after that ubs' donations to the clinton foundations multiplied. from 2008 and earlier, they totaled about $60,000. as of 2014 about $600,000. >> boy, i can't wait to read the e-mails between secretary and ubs officials. >> ubs has also paid former president clinton to do sessions. >> say that again. >> ubs, the paper points out. >> paid bill clinton. >> $1.5 million to do q & a sessions with one of its executives. according to the paper, that makes them the top corporate source of speech income since he left the white house. >> wow. ron fournier just where do you start there? i mean we always seem to find that the cherry on top is bill clinton going somewhere and getting paid $550,000 for speeches. of course when hillary clinton,

secretary of state, here after she saves ubs, he gets paid $1.5 billion for a q & a session. >> million. >> million. i'm a politician. okay. come on. $1.5 million for a question and answer session. >> yeah this is why i asked senior democrats months ago, including people very very close to the clinton operation who were loyal to the clintons saying that we had to follow the money. the e-mail scandal and foundation questions are probably related. and when you -- i mean when you ask about trump, this trump phenomena isn't just about republicans. bernie sanders isn't just about democrats. we have a population right now that is really fed up with politics. and why? why would we expect anything else? we have hillary clinton hiding god knows what on e-mails that she covertly hid and deleted. and we've got republicans calling our president of the united states, comparing him to hitler. this is no way to run a

government. this is no way to campaign. it's why a guy like trump, you know, who really is i think, the des moines register had it right, a feckless blowhard but he's something different now, something that an alternative to the crap we have. >> the paper notes there's no evidence of any link between the secretary of state's involvement in the case and the bank's donations to the clinton foundation or the speeches the former president was paid for. here's what the former secretary of state said yesterday. >> well, i would say that any implication that is attempting to be made along those lines is categorically false. i remember the government wide erchts to try to pursue america's interests with respect to swiss banks. and there was a resolution to that, and it continued to be the subject of diplomacy and law enforcement interest.

and you know this is just the kind of unfortunate claim or charge that you see in campaigns. >> so i'm wondering, michael steele i think what's unfortunate is that she just -- we're supposed to believe that. >> yeah. >> how do we know? there's no way of knowing? >> blah blah blah. >> okay. >> blah that's what i hear when i hear her talk about this. because it doesn't answer a fundamental question in light of the new revelations. so how do you explain, then going from a $60,000 to a $600,000? >> that's false, i have the records to prove it here are the records to back tup, here are the receipts. >> explain how you get a ten-fold increase in donations to the foundation and how come your husband is getting $1.5 million to meet with an executive and do a q & a session. explain that, ifalize rr no correlation, no linkage. >> by the way, that's kind of -- if anything, the money should be

going to the foundation. >> and bill clinton, matt lewis, bill clinton's speech fee skyrocketed up to $550,000 once she became secretary of state. did he really become that much speaker? >> a real coincidence. as concerning as all of these ethical things look and these convinceincidences look and e-mails disappearing and private servers, i still come back to what michael steele was just saying about the blah blah blah thing. i think the real problem hillary has is she seems like a phony. she doesn't seem like she's telling us the truth. and going back to the donald trump comparison she is the epitome of a politician who is not giving us straight talk. and i think that's really at least partially behind this erosion she's had in terms of likability. she's a horrible candidate, and i think she's gotten worse over

the years, not better. >> it's interesting, mika what michael steele said, and of course churchillian, blah blah, blah. donny deutsch said as he was walking off the set, shaking his head watching hillary on tv he said it's like she starts talking and i completely tune her out because i know she's not telling the truth. >> all right. >> and it's just -- >> do you hear blah blah blah? >> kasie is not going to give her opinion on that. she's a news reporter. >> the only thing i noticed, she was asked specifically about that. she said any implication is categorically false. she outlawed anything. clearly, something went on with ubs and the state department. i'm a little unclear how she can rule out literally anything associated with it. >> can you imagine, john heilemann, we have to go but can you imagine trusting bad judgment of doing a deal cleaning things up for ubs, and then having your husband make

$1.5 million asking executive a couple questions in some sessions? >> that's very bad judgment. >> knowing that she's going to run for president. >> it's characteristic bad judgment and one of the things about the clintons is they have exhibited, i don't want to say they're greed heads, but their desire to make a lot of money has been evidenced in president clinton's post-presidency, the quest for cash the quest for cash has overridden a lot of political judgment. >> thank you guys. still ahead, new numbers on u.s. wage growth. business before the bell with sara eisen is next. you're serious about fighting wrinkles, turn to roc® retinol correxion®. one week fine lines appear to fade. one month deep wrinkles look smoother. after one year, skin looks ageless. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. prep trauma unit 5. what've we got? bp 64/40 sterilize sites. multiple foreign objects in the body. tweezers.

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which is actually the smallest on record since we began tracking this number back in the early '80s. economists are looking for stronger numbers, looking for signs that wages finally in this recovery are growing for americans. and just to put it in perspective, first quarter, which we know was a weak quarter because of the winter weather, that wage growth was 0.7%. this is pretty weak which is important in the overall economy. we just got word that the second quarter economy grew 2.3%. just continuing along with this sort of blumpy recovery which is not all inclusive and which isn't including wages. that's a key factor for the federal reserve as it debates whether it wants to raise interest rates in september. last trading day of july expect august to be dominated by this question of higher rates. >> sara eisen, thank you very much. >> a decade of blahs. we are japan. coming up next it was cable news before there was cable news. a look at the amazing political

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the only thing i can think of is yourself. >> listen you [ bleep ]. stop calling me that.

>> [ bleep ]. >> you stay plastered. >> gentlemen. >> let's go back to his pornography and stop making any illusions in the last war -- >> >> that really [ bleep ]. >> that was a look at the infamous on-air clash between gore vidal and conservative william buckley who faced off on tv as the nation tuned in for the 1968 political conventions. a new documentary, best of enemies sheds a light on the deep-rooted hatred and joining us now, co-drengter erco-directors of the film robert gordon and morgan

neville. tell us who the best of enemies are, as i named them but give us the background and what you learned. >> i say you called gore videllal democrat. i don't think he would identify with that. he was a hand grenade thrower of the left. >> okay hand grenade thrower of the left. >> bill buckley was one of the -- >> hand grenade thrower of the right. >> exactly. the insurgent on the far right that started the national review, had a tv show firing line, for 33 years and helped confine the conservative movement of reagan's era. >> what did you learn about these best of enemies putting it together? >> a couple things. one was when the red loit turned off on the camera they were still enemies. >> right. >> this was a real -- a real dislike, and even a fear of each other. >> it wasn't a performance, per se. >> they had a good sense of theater, as you can see when you see them on tv.

but their enmity was real. the stakes for them were the future of the nation. this was really about what was good for america and what was bad for america. and they saw the other as the bad. >> watching just a clip that we showed, i was struck by the fact that if it were to occur today, they would be the kings of cable. they would be the absolute kings of cable. but i'm interested in what did they fear about one another? >> this is like the time of when identity politics were being formed. the whole notion. so gore a gay man, lived a life that bill thought was the kind of thing that would destroy the nation. bill a conservative, gore called him basically a shill for the corporations. gore was interested in more

social programs and bill was against. so they each thought that the ideals of the other were the path that would be the nation's ruin. >> really they were so similar in so many ways. they were born the same year, went to the same types of new england boarding schools. they had the same weird mid-atlantic accents that aren't really to be found in nature. but there was something about the other that haunted them. it was the only time in their life that i think they felt like they had an equal across from them. >> cut to the core. mark? >> i have seen the film i give it not two thumbs up but three. fantastic. nbc books these guys. did abc regret booking them or did they think it worked out great? >> this is the day and age when abc, they would have been the fourth network, but there were only three at the time. >> a distance third. >> this was kind of a hail mary move. they couldn't afford to do gavel to gavel coverage at the

conventions. they needed money from commercials running shows like flying nun and batman. they decided to do what they called unconventional conventional coverage. doing the consolidated 90 minutes of coverage and bringing them on to fight every night. >> by the end, were they happy with it? >> by the end, they were very happy. initially, they took a lot of grief from the press and other networks. by the end every network was imitating them. >> fantastic. i think we have another clip. do we have another clip? >> buckley expected this to be an opportunity to debate the issues. to have some fun. he was not prepared for mr. vidal. >> gore told he me hired a researcher. he wanted to paint national review as being racist if he could, anti-semitic. >> i don't think he was really interested in conducting a debate about the issues. or about the parties.

or about the policies. or about the platforms of the two parties. what he wanted to do was to expose bill buckley. >> your confrontation is about lifestyle. what kind of people should we be? their real argument in front of the public is who is the better person. >> this is really good. >> you know the last clip we showed, they are the same person. i mean, bill buckley is on his yacht on long island sound, probably. gore vidal is in some place with gold mirrors behind him. they have the same elitist, high-pedigree, w.a.s.p.-ish character. they they fear they're the same. >> he says in the movie they

each saw in the other their own anxious versions of themselves. it's like a distorted eded fun house mirror. they knew they were similar, and did not want people to mistake them for the other. >> soy they really hated each other? >> they did. they were not frenemies. they were truly enemies. >> this looked really good. you loved it. >> loved it. it will stay with you. it's got echoes of what life is like today in political media way ahead of its time. >> best of enemies in select theaters now. robert morguegordon and morgan neville. we'll be back with much more "morning joe."

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in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned about. >> it's cath ln's last day. >> we're going to miss you. >> and look who's here. >> and her brother. >> this is my brother. >> did you have fun working for us? aren't we great? >> wonderful. the best in the business. >> see, i told you. >>ules great to see you. >> good to be here. >> did you learn anything? >> bill clinton made $1.5 million for doing a session. >> nice. >> i learned there's no time for me to say anything. >> stick around. "the rundown" is next. catherine, thank you. thank you so much. and good morning.

i'm jose diaz bulartd. i want to take you live to the nation urban league conference in ft. lauderdale. where right now, hillary clinton is speaking. but we're going to talk about that throughout the remainder of this program. i want to take you now to very developing news on "the rundown" this friday. sources telling nbc news the airplane fragment found on reunion island in the west indian ocean is indeed from a boeing 777. this picture of the barnacle-covered plane piece shows an id number which sources say is attached to a 777. that's the same model plane as malaysia airlines flight mh370 that disappeared in march of 2014. the only 777 known to be missing anywhere in the world. the degree found on the french territory of reunion island will be sent to france for closer examination. at the same time officials h