it is friday july 31st and the gang is all here. and i don't know how to read the prompter anymore. all the world is a stage and donald trump is at the center. it is unclear if the republican front runner will be wearing his "make america great again" hat. but it is near certain he'll be at the hoofrt the debate next week. the candidate with the highest polling numbers, that would be donald john trump, will be center stage with the rest of the candidates fanned out to the edge looking something like this. >> and jeb bush for one is very very glad that dr. ben carson will be there. >> before that thing's over we might just need a doctor. >> zing. joining me now, kurt anderson michael steele and lawrence

o'donnell. i put myself in the trump position here. i thought it appropriate for our last show. john you have done the focus groups that have shattered america's impression of who exactly supports tonld trump. and do you think it matters to trump supporters whou he ss how he does in the debate. >> first off i have a bunch of those hats and you are going to get pick which color you want. >> i will wear it and hopefully make america great again. >> the same way donald trump is impervious to most attack bis most of his rivals and it just rolls off him like water off a duck's back his supporters are impervious to almost anything that could happen to him. and i think it's surprising a lot of these people i talk to that are strong supporters know a lot about his business background. not as much about his political views but they rise to his defense if you suggest anything that might be a criticism, a

contradiction, hypocrisy, liberal positions. they dismiss them all because they think he is one of them. >> lawrence, i don't feel like donald trump actually needs do any debate prep. even though he's down playing expectations. let's play the sound. >> as far as preparing for the debates, i am who i am. i don't know. i've never debated before. i'm not a debater. i have no idea how i'll do. maybe terribly. maybe great. >> maybe he'll wear that red hat. >> does he need to prep is this. >> no it is not a fact based campaign. and prepping is about rehearsing numbers and this is what i want to say. so there is nothing for him to prepare for. and b. russell explained donald trump and explained the 20% slice of the polls in 1952 when

he said bertrand russell said that in democracies a stupid man is presumed to be more honest than a smart man. >> and that holds true for today. >> so michael steele, if you were talking to jeb bush or anyone who was going to be sharing the stage for donald trump, what would be the whisper you would give them in their ear. that sounds more suggestive than it should. >> stay in your lane. very much to lawrence's point. there is nothing you can prepare for when the guy says i've never debated before so i don't know how i'm going to do. so you stay in your lane. you know the points you want to cover as the former governor as the u.s. senator, as a doctor or whatever. you know what you want to talk about. stay in your line. the moment you get outside of your lane, all bets are off. and that is a train wreck, car wreck and airp all crashing together at one time in you do. so the best and smartest thing

is do you, boo. don't do anybody else. because it won't work. >> and rand paul kurt this week -- >> the most feverish candidate on -- >> is sparring with a trump stand in. so that could be a lot of vehicular manslaughter if he decides to take him on. >> so there is rand paul who has the stunt double for donald trump he's sparring with and then rick perry who has clearly made it part of his plan to be the guy, the right wing -- well who is aboutn't right wing. the guy who criticizes donald trump. so i'm praying and hoping at least one if not both of those guys violates the steele rule and gets out of their lane and goes at it. and i think they will. i do. >> here is the unexamined question no one east yet focused on. there are rules in debates.

>> oh rules. [inaudible] >> timeout limits and stuff. i believe that will be the donald's approach. 23 if you are up on stage and the bells are ringing and he's just going on. what do you do? >> let's bring in now a man who knows about rules and regulations. josh earnest. thanks for joining us. have you talked b to the president about these gop debates? will he be watching? does he have an opinion on trump? >> i think the president will certainly follow the news coverage. and he's got his own vested stake in this debate about, you know, where the country is going to go from here and certainly what candidates are getting some traction. but my guess is the president will probably find a better way to spend his thursday night. >> say that again, someone was talking in my ear. >> sorry, say that again? >> nothing.

never mind. i assume it was something right down the middle about whether -- >> he said the president is going to be watching the last word on msnbc. >> has does every monday through thursday. >> he and michelle every night. >> and he will be taking notes. >> i wopder josh. you said the president has a stake in the outcome. and that will presume something comes out of these debates. >> we i think the debates are going to be revealing. we certainly think that will be true. and it will be interesting to see if the stage actually tips to the right as all the candidates scramble to one side. and they think that will be revealing about the priorities and values of the republican party. and look the president relishes the opportunity to have a legitimate debate about what it is the republican candidates prioritize and what the priorities of the democratic party. and i think a lot of the candidates on the stage in the democratic debate will be

articulating values that are consistent with what the president has been fighting for and i'm perfectly willing to hazard a guess there will be a stark contrast with the values and priorities articulated by all of the republican candidates next thursday. >> back to my new york panel here. we're all sort of looking ahead to this as if it's going to be hilarious and entertaining. >> because it is going to be hilarious and entertaining. >> right. but actually to josh's point. do people come away thinking wow the party's gone really right. or is donald trump and the carnival just -- >> i think this is a question of how right the gop is going to be. these candidates have fairly established records to their conservativism. and they don't need to reprove that. certainly not in a debate format. i really think this is going to be how they get positioned to make their case in the face of a

huge x-factor someone like donald trump who can play anywhere on the field and likely will. you mentioned the bell is ringing and he's continuing to make his point. what do you as a candidate standing there? [ bell ringing ] >> speak of. it is the 18th candidate for the republican. is this willie geist. as i live and breathe. we were just talking about how you control someone like donald trump. and as an expert yourself what would your advice be to the debate moderators who may have to keep this man in time and off the air when it is time to go to commercial. >> my advice, do what the rest of us are going to do sit back and enjoy the party. i don't know. i don't know what you do. i don't know if he's going to come with any specifics when he was asked about repealing obamacare this week. he said i'm going to take it away and replace it with

something terrific. that is the kind of answer you are going to get and i guess you have got to press him on specifics but there is no question. as everyone has said it is going to be fun to watch. >> put you on hold for a moment, willie. terrific. i'm going to replace obamacare with something terrific. >> impressed there is a rotary phone. >> i requested this. >> it is a piece of theater, like donald trump. >> it is. a terrific piece of theater. >> trump telecommunications. your question alex? >> to the question of actual policy, i'm going to replace it with something terrific. you talked to supporters. do they just not care? >> i went through a bunch of the things that i thought the supporters may not know about his political industry. he was a big democratic donor. he once favored legalization of drugs. pro choice. sing parent healthcare they

didn't care about any of it. except the notion of healthcare. [ doorbell ] but the rest was i don't care. we flip-flopped. changed his mind that is okay. >> there is a ring at the door. and i think it is the reverend al sharpton. oh it just gets better. rev, thank you for joining us on this momentous day in newscasting. it is an honor and pleasure, as a former presidential candidate yourself no one probably has a better understand of that debate stage and what it what it actually means to run for president. what would your advice be to the underdogs? >> if i were on the debate stage with trump i would be ready to do one of two things. first of all i this i that his point in the bloomburg, the conversation they had. the focus groups, was very key. he is enjoying the image of standing up against government and the media.

so i would not just do you have specifics? i would jump on the moderators for not making him have specifics which gets some of of his crowds the feeling that i am also part of the anti them telling us what do. cris why rebatearen't you asking him what you ask us. i would use them the backboard to score on him. you are all a part of this. fox want to see this guy advance. why don't you make him answer specific questions. donald says -- excuse me mr. trump. i'm talking to them. >> that would work. >> i just like the rev doing his version of what newt gingrich did in 2012 which is to blame the conservative media. there are a lot of tactic and strategies. another thing that could work is humor. the other day when rick perry

lectured donald trump on how cancer was a conserve tism. -- so if you can be funny with trump you might be able to score some points. you can't beat him up. but you might be able to make fun. >> you can't go there. >> willie geist, what would you challenge donald trump to? do we still have -- >> willie is hard to get. >> it is a long connection over in the south of italy. josh ernest do we still have you? >> i'm still here. >> politically speaking what do you think the white house is the most effective sport to challenge donald trump too? >> probably something that involves wearing a goofy hat. >> we would be winning that contest. >> he would excel. but look it is hard to tell exactly what donald trump is going to be bad at because he's

going to spend most of the time in the competition explaining why he's god at it even if he hasn't. it will be good to see. >> you can can corner trump with facts but you have to use his frame. his world. what does he say every day? hillary clinton is the worst secretary of state of all time. now that would imply that donald knows how many we've had. he doesn't. >> good point. >> so you start with how many have we had. he doesn't know. he'll probably learn that by debate night. but then you go whose the worst? and in order to get to the worst you have to evaluate all 68 of them and decide that hillary is better than frederick friedenhousen from 1881 to 1885. i haven't thought about how good a job he did. >> but you know his name. >> but that is the thing -- >> i think you give him credit for too much there.

i would say then why did you socialize and hang out and have at your golf course two secretaries of state. and he will think i know something he did that i didn't know he's done. and he is a blow hard. and you have to know there is no way that is going miss. >> i just realized this the other day. we're all thinking how do the candidates handle them? how do the moderators handle him? and what self respect do the moderators have when leave that show in interaction is much more between the moderators and the candidate than between the candidates. >> you have huckabee and kasich. >> as we learned people on tv often don't have a lot of self respect. >> or self control. >> let's talk about that. >> on that we have to take a

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it's been seven weeks since hillary clinton launched her campaign and today she delivered her most direct political attack to date bashing not the donald but jeb bush. using the right to rise campaign slogan against him. >> i don't think you can credibly say that everyone has a right to rise and then say you are for fazing out medicare or for repealing obamacare.

people can't rise if they can't afford healthcare. they can't rise if their governor makes it hard are for them to get a college education. and you cannot seriously talk about the right to rise and support laws that deny the right to vote. >> joining me now -- chris, how is hillary clinton's campaign doing? >> i think pretty well. rather than a, sort of, judgment of how well it is doing, i am struck by how much it is a 180 of her husband's campaign 20 years ago. and just, you know, that campaign was born of a deep belief that liberals were a minority in the country, that democrats war minority and that you had to essentially pick off all of these voters in order to get to 50 plus 1.

and this is entirely the opposite. the whole conviction that is animating her in this race is a belief that the most important thing for her to do is keep to obama coalition together. and that means coming out extremely strong in proactive immigration, strong rhetorically on issues having to do with black lives matter civil rights defending obama legacy and obamacare, the iran deal etc. if you got that in a time machine to go talk to bill clinton strategists 20 years ago they would think this is madness. insane that you were basically going to be george mcgovern and maybe win a state with this kind of strategy. >> you were with hillary i think was today. jeb bush has been given eye-rolling acknowledgment of black lives matter. i wonder how you think hillary's campaign is energized by that.

>> touched on something that is hillary clinton understands she does have to have the obama coalition not just present but enthusiastic. and this is jeb's backyard. he's a miami resident. he's very friendly with the urban league. the miami urban league is a good friend of his, as a conservative african american. she came into jeb's house and was hammering home on a point i wrote down a cheat sheet for each candidate when they spoke today. and hers was racial justice. the democrats had to say black lives matter at some point today but she just kept emphasizing. and sideswiping bernie sanders sanders too and saying it is not just about economics. >> steve, she also did something which we haven't heard -- we have phrase we haven't heard in

a long time. we can't go back to cowboy diplomacy and reckless warmongering. which was a literal 10 gallon hat tip to gorge w bush. >> two things gong on. you are seeing a calculation that all the media attention for the last few weeks is on donald trump. they still believe you take trump out and walker and rubio, the most likely opponent is still jeb bush when this is all other. and when you look at the hillary versus bush match-up that is one that the clinton people don't feel that bad about. if you reduce it to everything else. hillary clinton is linked to a guy -- >> they share the whole last name thing. >> a 65% approval rating for bill clinton when he left office versus less for george work

bush. >> you are concerned about the last name bush being uttered over and over again. >> i've never been concerned about that the way some have. as i've said before and will say again. hillary clinton is not her husband. she has a lot of ground to make up. i love the pandering in front of the black audience the affected tone and the louder speech. but i'm just saying. >> we'll just use your vocabulary of choice. >> that's how i view it because that is what it is and how i hear it. she's got to do her thing. i get it. bush is not his brother. so both of these candidates ultimately are going to have to go out if they are the eventual nominees and have a conversation with the country and convince them they are not their respective spouse or brother. and that is going to be the test. so she's starting -- to her credit she's starting to do some of that now. but the question is how does it play longer term? because she still has bernie

sanders to her left. and he's got to keep that in focus as well. >> and the racial justice component is handy. that separates her because he's not been as explicit. >> but on the stuff important to the left right now which is the economic piece, it is not just the racial justice stuff, she has no now swing that way as well. >> i cannot get there this metric. and i don't know whether it matters but i was talking to one republican strategist who obviously thinks it does. her numbers are going down. among democrats her favorables have gone down 11 points from april. 81% in april. 70 now. hillary clinton is always generally the focus of republican but she's not in the hot seat the way she'll be later on in the campaign. is that an issue among democrats? >> it's hard to imagine there is not a real line out there on hillary clinton that is not already basically baked in.

we're gnatat a point where donald trump is getting 20% saying that is my guy. there is flex in the numbers. but no i basically think these are not worrying things for her. i'm not worried about the poll numbers on her behalf. the thing that is interesting here in the encounter today is we are look at the begins of a very gig question in this campaign which is how tidal are all of the discussions over black lives matter and income inequality? how much does jeb bush or marco rubio or whoever have to talk about that? >> or not. >> or not at all. and jeb bush said i'm going mention these things but i'm not going to say they have changed who i am in any way. and hillary clinton almosting a ing a algorithmically again had to push back and say that is not enough. >> she had an 81% approval

rating. you don't go up from that. that is about as high as a politician gets. the reason she had 81% approval is because she was removed from politics. it turns out when people step out of the political arena people like them more. they step back in and it goes down. and in terms of what's baked in here is the assimilatory here. asymmetry here. sfrvptd the campaign and the politician matter most in the primary in some ways particularly on the republican side because that is the one that is most volatile. there is no baked in equilibrium. once you become the nominee, anyone sitting at this table would be about 45% of the vote if the major nominee of a party. >> well -- >> sam definitely not. you would get 4.5. >> 30%. >> you definitely have more interesting e-mails than the

ones that have been released today. this is my favorite from cheryl mills. subject line shake your -- no. sorry. it is secretary of awesome. is that the subject line. secretary of awesome, which is how the attached youtube you of you boogying quite well by the way at carnivore, you shake your tail feathers girl. i love seeing the inside of hillary clinton's campaign. maybe this is what we've all been waiting for. >> it would be ironic in this long drawn out process of getting her to turn out her e-mail records that it ends up humanizing herself. >> we're playing this video of hillary shaking her tail feather over and over again. how can there be a down side? >> there is none. to bring in a little seriousness. the high point of her campaign in 2008 was her sort of throwing back drinks in a bar in

pennsylvania taking on this populous tone as things were down in the dumps. and i think there is something to be said about that. her weakness if there is a major one is that she seems a little too calculating. a little too political. that is partially why her poll numbers have gone down. and the more we see her in the human lens i should say, i think the better the poll numbers do. i'm not sure she's exactly endorsing this idea that all f her e-mails is turned over. but there is that possibility of an upside. >> that video, it's earned media right there. we have have to take a break unfortunately because we could just keep this train rolling for a whole hour. but when we come back whose afraid of donald trump is? apparent think entire gop field or not.

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can the gop find another candidate with the caliber of mitt romney? we'll discuss their options next.

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the first republican debate is just six days away and the prep is in full force according to politico scott walker has been gearing up with the help of his wife. and chris christie is summoning his staff to get around a table and torture him. joining me now -- jonathan is chris christie -- what is going to happen with chris christie here? where does he go from here? >> a friend of mine james slocum in los angeles sent me an e-mail

today and made a good observation. he said christie is the only one with enough balls to outbully trump. he may withbe the only one who takes down trump. i think he's right. so it will be interesting to see whether christie, his family and everyone gathering around the table prepare him with enough ammo to take trump down a peg or two. christie is a governor. >> can i just make a reservation for that video for my tv show. >> you can play it at the open every day. >> i'm going to need that. >> -- he has not shown any sign of being able to control his temper temper. even to this week. >> and the tunnel versus bridge or whatever that would be in the christie versus trump. >> yes. >> you know, it's fantastic. because they are different versions of the same guy. and have, you know poor impulse control and this metropolitan

area problem of being happy to be a jerk and who can outjerk the other. it will be the greatest spectacle to see. >> scott walker's wife is not going to rise to the occasion. what scott walker needs to do what they all need to do is find the richest most spoiled four-year-old boy they can find and spend the weekend with that little kid and try to convince that four-year-old boy to change his mind about anything. that is the training. >> do two jerks cancel out on a stage? this stage not included. >> if andy cohen was the moderator then i think you would have a nice real housewives ruinen kind of situation. but no. what two jerks do is pull focus and then we all have a laugh and then realize oh my god this carnival is real.

>> and you have a post about rand paul in the new yorker and seem to think he is in a stronger -- >> no. >> okay. go ahead. maybe i didn't read it all the way to the end. >> not his campaign. i was saying the campaign is doing so badly the issues are doing well. a few years ago he was talking about the export/import bank. >> congrats on that. >> z the it's odd despite the fact some of his issues seem to be resonating he is not at all. at least not yet. there was a point four years ago. he might get his week yet this time. >> it is sort of the perennial libertarian cook problem. even when the ideas have some resonance, you know, they have trouble finding a standard barer that gets gravity. the line on rand paul for a year

was this is not his father's boy. this is the mainstream version of these ideas. and he's still got the sam problems. it still doesn't become. >> he still has libertarian cook problems. >> this point four years ago ron paul's numbers were way higher than rand's right now. >> and dr. ben carson we do not give -- >> you mean the next poft united states. >> constantly in the pack. totally underdiscussed and the trump people that is their other guy. >> when you look at the trump 20 and the carson six in the polls, you look at those numbers. when you say when carson drops out where does his number go? it goes to trump if he's still there. and it starts to add up to a significant number. the establishment number, you know, if you have it all congeal on bush or walker is a bigger number. but that trump/carson wing is a pretty big wing of the

republican party. >> and what of ted cruz kurt? >> ted cruz is the person whom i would most like to see embarrassed in some fashion. >> your eyes lightly close as if channelling. >> dellwell. >> it is your deepest wish. >> it is. and as trump is the focus puller of the thing. but in ted cruz's desire if he's even on the stage as we'll know tuesday. many of these people we're talking about won't be there on thursday. ted cruz may well not be. >> and what i keep going back to jonathan is the arbitrary nature of all of this and whether the fact that fox news is sort of deciding which polls they are going to use as the determinants for who gets the adult's table. i shouldn't be saying this because we're devoting a whole show to it. but does in the end the debate have any measurable impact

beyond the entertainment value? because it is such a cluster getting to the actual debate stage. >> no. it has no value. the only reason why a lot of america even knows the date of the debate coming up next week next thursday is because donald trump is in it. he has said some mean nasty companynastyzine phonic things. kpen phobic zen phobic. >> and everything is now going gather in front of the television and watch what happens. >> 95% of america has no chance of even seeing a single frame of this debate. it will definitely be watched by republican activists and real republican primary voters especially in iowa and new hampshire. and i think they will start -- the polls after that debate will start to become more interesting. because it will involve a higher

level of consumer information for them. >> i just want to know how chris christie is going to take his jacket off. let's just play that out to the break. lawrence, you can have it for 10:00 p.m. whenever you want it. there it is. john kasich is not a fan of the roots. mike huckabee has issues with beyonce and mitt romney does not understand who let the dogs out. more on all that just ahead. whose ready to have a baby? buster posey? you're not my doctor... c'mon. i'm sorta your doctor. i mean we both wear gloves and we always deliver in the clutch. gloves. clutch.

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marco rubio has 2 pac. hillary clinton has marc anthony. and rubio has the roots?

this week dug up to which the ohio governor admits the buying an album but according to kasich he found the lyrics so vulgar he pulled over and tossed the cd out of the car. every other word was intended to shock and titillate. i couldn't listen. if i let that kind of garbage into my life and the life of my family i'd have lost. here with me -- and from l.a. eddie wong. john, i must start with you. because you are the "new york times" music critic. the roots? this is not chief keefe we're talking about. >> is this maybe the most robust roots review that's been written in the last few years. >> tread lightly. i'm just saying to titillate. this could have destroyed his family, the roots. >> he has a tender family number one. >> i guess so. >> we all know that.

secondary i think he's deeply out of the state with mainstream republicans right now. for john kasich it could be hey the roots are not my thing. he's out of step. >> as far as hip hop goes the roots are fairly mainstream. this is before the tonight show. >> [ inaudible ]. >> no disrespect to that. but you have mike huckabee taking on jay-z and beyonce. and i feel like these cultural sign posts are important. >> the roots is like the blue note jazz hip hop group. they got erykay badu on one of the records. if anything they are one of the most conscious groups and they have one of the top five hip hop love songs of all time with "you got me." >> and kay you also are the music head. can i say that on television. >> sure. >> we have this endless debate

how republicans establish cultural credential. and marco rubio constantly talks about rap, and wu tang and 2 pac and lately electronic dance music. david david guetta. >> he had a moment where he'sed a a foam party and the foam discolored his shoes and he decided that going out in partying in south beach was not the life for him and he wanted to really commit to family. >> that was his moment chris. >> that is not true. >> is that a true thing? >> that is a true thing. >> a foam party. >> but everyone has a moment. >> but they all have their moments in the 90s. >> but there is something to be said for having a legitimate relationship chris, to artistic output. and the feeling i think in some corners of the republican party is that there is no place for republicans. >> can i stick up for john kasich finish a second? >> yeah. >> it is going to be a weird

argument you make. >> he wrote this in 2006. that was ten years ago. possibly his views on the topic have changed. i'm curious, you know, to revisit the topic with him. i think it is a snapshot of a kind of sort of wedge issue politics republicans used to like. particularly in the late 90s. >> tipper gore like. >> exactly. and it was like a wedge issue. oh the filth that is coming through the ears of our young people. we need parental advisory stickers. the whole 2 live crew issue. and nwa. and that was a news cycle or more. >> but that is 10 years before john kasich -- [inaudible]. which is just a bizarre. >> i totally agree. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i would be curious if he would write that now. i think that was a kind of signaling that i'm not sure is -- >> but jeb bush tweeted in march, never thought ludicrous

would be my opening act. his foundation does great work. saying nothing of the damage,.j. t artist. >> first when there are statements made to align yourself with something culturally and then it is not followed through it is boring. two, kasich has twice now snuck in crazy, crazy, crazy socially conservative legislation in budget bills. so i don't know that he would probably say anything different because i do believe in his heart that he has really deeply -- he's deeply offended very easily. >> as the rap fan i do feel -- i don't know if you feel this way john, a little warm and fuzzy whenever a politician saying something nasty about hip hop. >> they are still the man. >> i'm like still got it. >> exactly right. because the worst is the opposite. i was talking to quest love and [inaudible]

>> -- [inaudible]. >> this idea that hip hop is oldies music now. i'm a 30-something dad and yeah -- >> what do you think about that? is some hip hop dad music? >> some of it especially in l.a. you have like k day. so it is the oldies station. but i find it really funny that these politicians are trying to relate to hip hop and use it to give themselves an edge. it worked for obama because obama actually related to the core values and the culture of the music. he wasn't borrowing it for a style. >> brushing his shoulders off in the video we see. there is something about legitimacy here. >> we have to talk about -- and there are two things we need to talk about. one actual rapper republicans. easy e went to a dinner on the white house under bush one. scar face has at some point indicated republican leans.

>> pit bull. >> my guy. pit bull. l.l. i think supported pataki at one point. >> that just proves my point. >> second thing there is a tremendous anxiety about the emergence of the white rappers. but the white rappers we have are generally good macklemore. i think we're ten years away from a conservative white pop star. and when that happens -- >> kid rock is a little bit. >> but he's too old. >> it's also the cycles of the nostalgia. clinton uses "don't stop" fleetwood mac. that's an oldy. and what's 15 years old now is the stanconia of outkast.

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chafee, our senior producer. we love you. for one last time that is all for now. the "ed show" is up next. good evening, americans, welcome to the "ed show." live from miami florida. i'm michael eric dyson in for ed schultz. get get to work. >> tonight, race matters. >> i want to work with the urban league movement to end this injustice once and for all. >> the real test of a candidate's commitment is not whether we come to speak at your national conference as important as that is. it is whether we're still around after the cameras are gone and the votes are counted. >> plus convincing evidence. >> debris found on