nomination. this sunday a potential political bombshell -- word joe biden is now seriously considering taking on hillary clinton for the democratic nomination. we'll have the latest on what we really know. also, game on. it's republican debate week. >> oh, hit trump, hit trump. i'm going to be in the lion's den. >> how will the other contenders deal with a wild card like donald trump? >> i'll be showing up with my big boy pants on. >> the man himself, donald trump, joins me. >> plus our nbc news/"wall street journal" poll as to who's in and who's out. and i'll be joined by the other non-politician who's been

breaking through -- retired neurosurgeon, ben carson. we'll talk immigration, black lives matter and the iran deal. >> it's perhaps the worst deal in history. >> i'm chuck todd. joining me to provide insight and analysis -- msnbc's chris matthews. elaine cooper. gerry seib. and helene cooper. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good morning. this is certainly not your average sleepy sunday in august. if you love politics, if you love presidential campaigns, this is the show for you this morning. all this week we've been talking about one thing -- the first republican presidential debate. but if that's not enough for you junkies out there, suddenly we have a potential political stunner. today's lead story in the "new york times" is this -- vice president joe biden is said to be taking a more serious look at jumping into the democratic race. of course, a biden candidacy

would completely up-end the democratic primary. we'll get to that potential game-changer in a moment about our own reporting on what's really going on in biden world and on the timeing with which he may make the decision. first, to the man who's already up-ended the republican race, donald trump. he'll join me for a few minutes in an interview, and he's going to like what we have to say about this, our new nbc news/wall street journal poll out this morning. very good news for him -- trump is leading the pack. 19% of the vote. he's followed by scott walker at 15%, jeb bush at 14%, and rounding out the double-digit leaderboard is ben carson at 10%. in the high single digits, cruz, huckabee, paul and rubio. all are in pretty good shape and should make the debate stage on thursday. kasich, christie, and rick perry round out the top 11, all sitting at 3%. those three candidates are battling it out for two remaining spots on thursday's

debate stage because only the ten candidates who rank highest in an average of the five most recent national polls released by tuesday will qualify for the debate. only the ten candidates who rank highest in an average of the as of this morning, here's where the 11th-hour scramble stands for those ten spots. candidates have been told they'll likely be lined up on stage according to their polling average. that means we'd see donald trump right in the center, surrounded by scott walker and jeb bush to his left and right. then you'd have rand paul, ben carson, marco rubio, mike huckabee and ted cruz. then, of course, who's in spots nine or ten on stage right and stage left. of the three candidates vying for those final two spots, the averages right now have kasich and christie on the wings making it on stage. rick perry, as of this morning, would not. as you know, this is not the spinal tap debate. this debate does not go to 11. once the debate begins, it's the man in the middle, trump who

will be center stage, literally and figuratively. >> they debate every night of their life. that's all they do is debate. >> reporter: as donald trump deplays expectations -- >> i'm not a debater. >> reporter: republicans preparing to be on stage with him are grappling with how to handle the elephant in the room. . 7 this week one of marco rubio's advisers called him a rattlesnake with a toothache. john kasich's political strategist tweeted -- imagine a nascar driver mentally preparing for a race, knowing one of the drivers will be drunk. >> oh, hit trump. and hit trump. what is this? for two hours i'm going to be in the lion's den, right? >> strategies vary -- ignore him. >> donald trump needs to be just fine for donald trump. i'm not going to talk about donald trump or anybody else. >> ignoring trump might be hard. the rules flavor from his shoot from the lip delivery. candidates will have just 60 seconds to answer and only 30 for rebuttal. challenge him?

rec rick perry's tried. >> rick perry should have to have an iq test before getting on the debate stage. >> but rick perry may not even be on stage to take trump on. so will anyone else? >> if donald tries to interrupt me, i can guarantee you, that that's not something i take from a reporter in the gaggle and it won't be anything else i'll take from somebody on that stage. >> with just nine debates officially sanctioned by the republican national committee, less than half the number in the last two contests, candidates will be trying to stand out. i'm joined on the phone from new york by the man that has shaken up the republican race, donald trump himself. mr. trump, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. >> in june, right before you announced, you were at 1%. in july, after you announced, in the last six weeks, you're in first place with 19%. why do you think you're resonating so quickly in the republican field? >> well, i think a lot of people did not believe i was going to be running, chuck. and they thought it was -- you know, they didn't want to waste poll votes, so to speak, and

they really felt i wouldn't run. i have a wonderful life. i have a wonderful -- i built a tremendous company. a lot of good things going on. they said, why would he give that up to go into this fray? once i announced, as you probably know better than anybody, my poll numbers started to shoot up like a rocket ship. they continue to go up. a couple of polls came out recently where i'm number one with hispanics, as an example in nevada. >> okay. >> north carolina was very strong. nevada was very strong overall, too, as was number one place in both cases. i mean, it's been -- it's been terrific. >> now, there is -- look, with the good, there is bad. you also have the highest unfavorable rating of any candidates we tested and a majority of folks we ask say you're doing more to hurt the republican party than help. why do you believe there is this sort of polarizing view of you? >> i don't think they understand my message or maybe they haven't heard my message yet. i notice in certain states, like north carolina, we have a strong favorability rating, and others, and other places, including new hampshire, including iowa.

there is a very strong favor ability rating. i've been in iowa a lot, south carolina a lot, new hampshire a lot. where i go and where i speak, they really change those numbers very quickly. >> let's talk about the debate. let me ask you this way, i know one of the things you did that surprised me is you downplayed your expectation. mr. trump, with all due respect, you never downplay your ability on anything. why did you downplay your expectations on debating? >> well, i'm not a debater. i've never debated on a stage debating. i guess my whole life has been a debate in one way, but i've never been on a formal stage debating, so i really don't know. i understand you have nine other people that will be shooting at me. that may be true, maybe not. i really don't know. i don't have pollsters. i don't want to waste money on pollsters. i don't want to be unreal. i want to be me. i have to be me. we have enough of that in washington with pollsters telling everybody what to say and everybody being controlled

by the special interests and lobbyists and et cetera, et cetera, and donors. i see donors all over the place and they don't give because they happen to be nice people. i know them. i think really -- who knows. i certainly -- i think i know most of the subjects very well. i've been through it. a lot of people have been asking me a lot of questions for three or four months. we'll see what happens. again, i don't think you can artificially prepare for something like this. >> you've been compared to a rattle snake by marco rubio's campaign, a drunk nascar driver, i think, by the kasich campaign. let me ask you this -- how would you advise a candidate to debate you on stage? >> well, i think i'm a nice person. i really do. and i think that's why my numbers always go up, as they get to know me better, i, think that frankly, i'd like to discuss the issues. i'm not looking to take anybody out or be nasty to anybody. as you know chuck, when i made harsh statements about various people, that was always in response to their criticism of

me. you know, rick perry, i always thought he was a nice guy. he started hitting me hard. so i hit him harder. i'm not looking -- don't know what they're going to be doing. i'm reading so many -- >> they don't attack you, you're not going to attack them. >> i think it's highly unlikely. i really do -- >> if they attack you -- >> i've always counter-punched. you have to counterpunch. i'm not looking to start anything. that's for sure. i would rather discuss the issues. our country is in serious trouble. we have a lot of problems on every front. i'd rather discuss that. i read people, i listen to you and others, and a lot of people say, oh, they're getting ready, they have their lines given to them by the pollsters. everything's perfectly put down by a pollster, what to say and how to attack me. you know, if that comes, it comes, and i'll have to handle it at the time. >> i'm hoping you and i are going to sit down face to face soon and go in detail on policy issues, but i want to ask you about a story in this morning's "washington post." it says candidate donald trump's platform, because i said so.

and there is some growing criticism that says, when are we going to see the details? when are we going to see your policy proposals? i know your campaign says you have them. there's a tax plan on the shelf ready to roll out. an education plan on the shelf, ready to roll out. when will the public see this, sir? >> well, it's all true. we do have a lot of different policy programs. i don't know if they're going to be popular but something that will set the country back right. one of the big things is we have to take back jobs from china. we have to take back jobs from japan and vietnam and mexico and virtually everybody that's taking our jobs and ruining our manufacturing base. we have to put people to work, chuck, because the real number is probably 21%, the real unemployment number is probably 21%. people give up looking for jobs and they no longer become a statistic and it's very unfair. so, we have to put our country back to work. we have to get great jobs for people and good paying jobs for people. we're going to be just fine. >> all right. very quickly, two more questions. one, the news about joe biden

thinking about challenging hillary clinton. who would you rather face, hillary clinton or joe biden? >> i don't have a choice. i would say this, i think with what she's doing and how she's coming out, you know, she's got a terrible record. she's probably the worst secretary of state in the history of this country and she's now -- you know the e-mail thing. what they did with petraeus is they zee destroyed his life. what they did is far greater and far worse than what petraeus did. i would think in some people you're going to get a prosecutor who's going to be an honorable prosecutor and there's going to be problems for her. and i think other people would be looking. >> you don't have much to say about joe biden. you gave him money in the past. >> i think he's fine. if he runs, he runs. you have to worry about -- i like to do things nice and systematically. right now i have i guess you could say 16 -- so somebody else just joined. i have 16 opponents. and i like to focus on them and then i'll focus on hillary. i think hillary will be easy, if it's her, but i'm not so sure it's going to be her.

>> i know we'll get into a lot more issues with you in a couple weeks, but i want to ask about black lives matter, the white police officer shooting an unarmed black man, the latest shooting. do you see this as a crisis in america? >> it's a massive crisis. it's a double crisis. what's happening, people -- i look at things, see it on television, and some horrible mistakes are made. at same time, we have to give power back to the police because crime is rampant. i'm a big person that believes in very big -- you know, we need police and we need protection to -- look, i look at some of the cities. you look at baltimore. you look at so many different places in this country, chicago, certain areas of chicago. they need strong police protection. and those police can do the job, but their jobs are being taken away from them. at the same time, you've got these other problems and there's no question about it. they are problems. there is turmoil in our country. >> do you understand why african-americans don't trust the police right now?

>> well, i can certainly see it, when i see what's going on, but at the same time, we have to give power back to the police because we have to have law and order. hundreds of killings in baltimore, hundreds of killing in chicago. new york is not doing so great in terms of that front and so many other cities. we have to give strength and power back to the police. you're always going to have mistakes made and you're always going to have bad apples, but you can't let that stop the fact that police have to regain some control of this tremendous crime wave and killing wave that's happening in this country. >> all right. all eyes will be on you for the next four days and, of course, in prime time on thursday night. mr. trump, i look forward to having a deep dive on policy and issues with you in a couple weeks, i hope. >> good. i do, too. thank you very much, chuck. >> thank you, sir. joining me now is chairman of the republican national commit renz reince priebus. welcome back to "meet the press." ince priebus. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. >> you talked about the other

day on the "today" show that you wanted all the candidates to pledge that they would not run as a third party. how do you go about getting that pledge? and have you personally made phone calls to all the candidates asking for that pledge, including mr. trump? >> i haven't made phone calls to every candidate, chuck, but what i was saying on the "today" show was simply that if you're going to run for the nomination of our private organization, which is the republican party, that is only makes sense that you, at number one, agree that a republican would be better than a democrat running on the other side, and that you wouldn't run as a third party because i think a third party, at least a serious one, on either side of the aisle would be a death wish to both parties. i don't think it's unreasonable to say that candidates ought to support on our side the republican nominee, if it's not them, and they ought to pledge not to run as a third party. we'll see where this goes, but i guess you could say it was the beginning of that conversation. >> let me ask you this about

donald trump himself. we got a new poll that's coming out. i'll sneak in the one question i asked him. a majority of the country believes he is hurting the image of the republican party. do you believe donald trump is helping or hurting the image of the republican party. >> you know, i guess you could -- i don't think it hurts. i think donald trump and the trump name is kind of a national brand name. i think in donald trump's case it is fair to say donald trump speaks for donald trump. so, no, i don't think it has anything to do with the republican party. i think all these candidates speak for themselves. when we get a nominee, i know we're analyzing week by week, we have a nominee by then beginning of march, end of march, we have april, may, june, july, the convention, september, october. i think those months are years and i just don't see it.

and i think both sides are going to have nominees that are going to speak for the party, but right now none of the candidates speak for the party. >> i'm saving this tape because you are predicting you're going to have a quick nomination and that it will end in march. we'll see about that. let me ask you about -- >> i think it will. >> okay. let me ask you about the debate process. look ng at theing at the top ten of polls. junior debate. is this what you had in mind when you were trying to take control of the debate process? because it seems as if all of a sudden national polling is having an undue influence about who should be on stage for a first debate. is this really what you had in mind? >> well, yeah, i mean, chuck, national polling's always been determinative of these debates. when you get into the iowa debate, new hampshire debate, south carolina debate, then those state polls will have a play into who's on the debate stage. you might recall -- i think everyone's got amnesia. jon huntsman didn't make a debate, gary johnson didn't make

debates. the fact is, we're proud of where we've come. we want to do a few things that no one thought we could ever do. as a nonstaging entity under the federal election commission law, which is another topic that would bore your listeners to get into it, but the truth is, we to want do a few things. one, we want to limit debates. we did that. the second thing is we want to have some say on who moderators are. we did that. so this idea of what companies decide to do with the corporate air time that they have is as a matter of law their decision. now, one last thing and i'll move on, all 17 candidates, chuck, are going to be participating in debate night. so, everyone's going to have an opportunity. i think that's wonderful for our party. >> chairman reince preibus, we'll be watching. i know we'll hear a lot from you this week as the spotlight goes to you and the rest of the field. thanks for coming on "meet the press." >> thank you. >> the panel, gerry seib, with the "wall street journal" poll

washington bureau chief. helene cooper from "the new york times." kathleen parker. and of course, chris mat thiz. matthews. let me start with trump here, chris matthews. rope-a-dope.matthews. let me start with trump here, chris matthews. rope-a-dope. this was mild-mannered donald trump. clark kent, you called him -- >> comic book hero. >> this was clark kent, not superman. >> i think he'll win with proposals on taxes to help the working guy and then he'll wait for someone to attack him. the counterattack will be a lot more fun to watch. i think he will surprise people that way. >> kathleen, it seems as if he's almost setting people up. let others look unreasonable and crazy. oh, no, i'm just sitting here. >> oh, absolutely. he's created this impression so we're waiting for the debate. more people will probably tune into this more than in the past because they want to see donald trump do his thing. he's clearly not going to do it. he's been calming down, calming down along the way. he's going to try to be the grownup, i think, and let everybody else then become

somewhat off-balance because he's not doing what he's expected. the american public will go, hmm. >> we've been talking about donald trump, donald trump. the other front-runner is jeb bush. here's what jeb bush told my clear, lester holt, about preparing for a donald trump debate. >> i was surprised that donald trump has surged. i think he's captured the deep frustration that people feel. i get that. i get the lack of rule of law, sanctuary cities, open borders, all those things, he's in a graphic way appealed to people's anger about those things. it's important to be respectful of that, make the case that we can fix these things and over time the trump phenomena will either succeed or fail based on his proposals. >> helene, i began this discussion by saying, donald trump has toned down. jeb bush is trying to tone down criticism of donald trump.

>> it's weird, isn't it? i can see trump having some gravitas but these guys revved themselves up to go after trump and it will be a weird dynamic on stage. i think jeb bush is probably the most to gain from this whole trump phenomenon but he has to look at how he plays it on stage opposite trump. >> there's an important article that i think the jeb bush people are reading by byron work in "the washington examiner" and it has conservatives upset that jeb bush didn't lay into hillary clinton. hillary clinton laid in to jeb bush during the urban league and jeb bush went up there and didn't respond. and they say, to some conservatives who question jeb bush's resolve to fight, his silence had an ominous sound to it. this was jeb who presented hillary with the national constitution center's liberty medal in 2013. is jeb tough enough may be a question he has to answer on

that stage. >> jeb bush's theory of the race is people in the end are going to look for someone who's optimistic, not angry. we'll see about that. he has a challenge on thursday night, as the others do, can you take on donald trump without taking down his voters at the same time. the interesting thing about our poll, if you look through demographic groups, there's broad support for donald trump. men, women, moderate republicans. it is not just angry white males which is kind of the caricature. so you have to not anger donald trump people. >> i think it's deeper than anger. there's a sense of betrayal, the best of the brightest giving it away on border, debt, jobs. they feel like they've been betrayed by the elite. donald trump, ironically, is fighting the elite. the little guy's rooting for him. >> and the more we in the media attack him, the more powerful he gets. . >> by the way, the happiest person in the world is jeb bush going into this debate because everyone will pile on trump and not him. >> we'll see.

i'm not so convinced of that. when we come back, the other political story of the week and of the morning -- how serious is joe biden about challenging hillary clinton for the democratic nomination? ever since darryl's wife started using gain flings, their laundry smells more amazing than ever. (sniff) honey, isn't that the dog's towel? (dog noise) hey, mi towel, su towel. more scent plus oxi boost and febreze. it's our best gain ever! in the nation, what's precious to you is precious to us. so when coverage really counts,

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welcome back. now to the other big political story of the morning, word that vice president joe biden is taking a new and more serious look at entering the democratic race for 2016. what's behind this apparent new-found interest? is it hillary clinton's falling numbers and his improving ones? according to a quinnipiac poll

out this week, hillary's personal ratings are upside down and an all-time high unfavorable rating overall in this poll. 40% favorable, 51% unfavorable. by coincidence, look at joe biden. he got his best numbers yet in this poll historically. 49% favorable and 39% unfavorable. throwing questions about hillary clinton's e-mails, the transparency and trust-worthy issues. you have a clinton campaign that could be facing a potential crisis right now. could be the summer of doldrums or something more serious. to discuss clinton's travails, and potential biden run, i'm joined by debbie wasserman schultz, the chairman of the democratic party. chairwoman schultz, good morning to you. >> thank you. great to be with you. >> let me ask you -- is there room for more candidates in the democratic race, including the sitting vice president? >> chuck, let me just say, there would always be room for the sitting vice president if he chose to run for president, but let's remember and take one step back that vice president biden

has just been through the most heart-wrenching tragedy that a parent could ever experience in the loss of his son, beau, who was a friend of mine and it was deeply tragic to watch that family go through what they have. but as chair of the dnc, i can tell you that throughout the beginning of the 2016 presidential cycle, as the dnc, we have kept candidates and potential candidates fully informed about what we're doing at the dnc, how we're preparing, what they need to know potentially. so, we've been in communication with potential and actual candidates throughout this process. >> you're being vague about the potential. you mean vice president biden? >> well, at every point in this process, each of the candidates before they announced was a potential candidate. vice president biden has never ruled out whether he would eventually run for president.

like any other candidates when they were thinking or in any stage of the process, we've kept his team informed as well as every other candidate, both before and since they have decided to join the race. >> what do you make of the rise of bernie sanders? >> you know, i think bernie sanders, hillary clinton, lincoln chafee, martin o'malley, any of our candidates when compared to the republican field have an appeal because they speak to american public. and the issues important to the american people. whoever our nominee will be will ultimately be president because our candidates and our party stand for representing people reach the middle class, making sure if you work hard and play by the rules that you should have an opportunity to succeed and that you can. and the republican field, look, you know, you've got their front-runner, who has deemed mexicans rapists, a presidential candidate in mike huckabee this week actually not rule out that he'd use federal troops to stop abortion?

jeb bush who said he'd phase out medicare. the contrast, whether it's bernie sanders, jeb bush, donald trump, mike huckabee, hillary clinton, any of that contrast between our candidates and theirs is very clear and the american people eventually choose our nominee as president. >> now, you were on with one of our panelists this week, chris matthews, and he asked you a question about bernie sanders. let me play the clip and get to you respond on the other side. >> what is it between a democratic and a socialist? i used to think there was a big difference. what do you think it is? >> the difference between -- >> democrat like hillary clinton, socialist like bernie sanders? >> the difference between being a democratic and a republican -- >> well, what's the big difference between a democrat and socialist. you're chairman of the democratic party. tell me the difference between you and a socialist. >> the relevant debate we'll have over the course of this campaign is what's the difference between a -- >> i think there's a big difference. >> given that bernie sanders is an unabashed socialist, believes

. social democratic governments, likes the ones in europe. what is the difference? can you explain the difference? >> you know, chuck, it's always fun to be interviewed by chris matthews. and i know that he enjoys that banter. the important distinction i think we're going to be discussing, i'm confident we'll be discussing in this campaign, is the difference between democrats and republicans. the difference between democrats and republicans is that democrats want to make sure that people have an opportunity to reach the -- climb the ladders of success and reach the middle class, have a good education, have a secure retirement. look at the republican field, what they stand for is the extremism that you've seen in -- on full display over the next -- the last few weeks, which is why donald trump is their front-runner. donald trump is essentially a reflection of where the republican party is today. limiting a woman's right to make her own health care decisions, supporting -- shifting to a more privately focused education system, ending medicare as we know it. that's the important and relevant contrast as we go

through the next 18 months of this presidential election. >> very quickly, we're only talking about republicans debating for the next two months. why aren't we seeing democrats debate over the next two months? >> oh, we're going to be having a robust series of debates. we're finalizing the last few details. our networks and organizational partners and we will be announcing our -- i'll be announcing our series of debates very soon. >> we're not going to see him in august or september? >> we will be announcing our schedule as soon as we get it finalized. we've committed to six debates. each will have at least one debate in each of the four early primary states. >> chairwoman debbie wasserman schultz, talking on the democratic side of the aisle. thanks for coming on this morning. 7 >> thanks for having me, chuck. the panel is back. chris, she doesn't want to answer that question. why do you think that? >> i think there's a big difference between -- socialists traditionally believe in government controlled economy. democrats believe in modifying the economy to help people at

the bottom with a safety net. but clearly they believe in the market. >> why do you think she didn't say that? >> politically, she doesn't want to offend the bernie people. >> you think that's the issue? >> i think so. maybe it was an intellectual problem but i will give her the benefit of the doubt in that it's a political problem. she thinks because i think hillary clinton hasn't staked on it the difference. she better. you have to run as a democrat, which is always harder to explain being a progressive and liberal, harder than being a right winger or left winger. clearly democrats have had a record in this country of being for social security, medicare, civil rights, interventions in the market but not getting rid of the market. clearly, they accept the power and the efficiency of a capitalist system. socialists do not. this is a fundamental difference. >> let's get quickly to the joe biden news. helene, in "the new york times" this morning we have maureen dowd's column where she talks about sort of a deathbed plea from beau biden to joe biden.

what would beau do be and he is recommending he wants him to run. my own reporting says the family has been behind him running this whole time. it's always a family affair. but there is a hesitancy. >> there clearly is a hesitancy. we have to remember biden is still -- the death of his son is pretty fresh and very, very raw. maureen is a fantastic reporter. before she was a columnist, she was a fantastic political reporter. she has great sources. so, i completely have faith in that beau biden anecdote. "the times" headline on the lead story today taking steps, and i don't think that's necessarily overwritten, but it's a long distance between, you know, taking steps and talking to people and actually announcing a candidacy. i'm curious to see, you know, which way we're going to end up going. >> gerry, a couple things i found out in my reporting. there's going to be a big family vacation bidens will have, in the next couple of weeks where the real decision is made. his sister ran his campaign.

his niece was political director. these are family decisions. but it is -- the other aspect of this is, how serious -- i mean, are donors asking for this? do we think other democrats are getting nervous about hillary? >> that's one of the questions. there are many questions. i don't think this situation has changed a lot in the last few weeks. wrote about this a few weeks ago, the family always thought this was a good idea. hunter, not just beau biden, apparently has said, you should do this, but others in biden world don't think it's a good idea. they don't think he should go out on his national political career on a down note. the donor question is a big one, a lot of money has been given to hillary clinton, committed, already. >> what's interesting here is that some of this is driven by -- that the clinton people are trying to smoke him out. they have actually leaked these anecdotes because he's sitting out there, hovering over the campaign and it make them nervous. >> i'm not tapped into that

conspiracy, i've got to admit. i think about what the bidens have been through, if maureen's sources are correct, then that son's request is very powerful, i would think. >> i think it is, too. >> i don't know -- i read bill schneider's column in which he points out vice presidents get nominated because people like them and they appreciate their loyalty, but they don't, in fact, get elected president. the exception to that was george h.w. bush because people wanted a third term of ronald reagan. this is schneider's writing and i think he's on target. >> it's about 41% approval rating for vice president biden i think probably has a lot to do with sympathy right now. whether that carries over into the long run, i don't know. >> another guy about biden, he's in the back room with the president every day. and proposals like breaking up iraq is a recent, historic development. i think if he runs, there's no more grandpa finnegan, no more gaffes, no more kidding down.

head down, knees up and run to win and run to beat hillary. if he wants to run that kind of campaign, it could be damaging. >> people close to him said this is the first time he's ever felt prepared to be president. that's important. he never thought that before until he was a sitting vice president. anyway, coming up, the man who's doing a lot better in the polls than you might think, neurosurgeon ben carson. first, why so many people are saying it's past time to put body cameras on all police officers. >> announcer: "meet the press" is brought to you by morgan stanley, where capital creates change. stanley, where capital creates just in case you were wondering what cheerios are made of whole. grain. oats.

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if you're one of those people who's concerned about the rise of money in politics, then listen to this. welcome back. if you're one of those people who's concerned about the rise of money in politics, then listen to this. according to politico, the 67 largest donors so far in the campaign have accounted for $128 million in contributions to the superpacs. compare that to the 500,000 smallest donors who only gave a third as much. 67 versus 500,000. $128 million versus $38 million. "the new york times" reports fewer than 400 families have donated half of all the money raised so far in the 2016 election. these are shocking numbers early on in this campaign season. no doubt, they'll be more shocking as time wears on. coming up, what the death of another unarmed black man, this one in cincinnati, tells us about how we decide who can and can't become a police officer. does the recruitment process of police officers have to radically change?

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soaring away from home towards the promise of a better existence. but these birds are suffering. because this better place turned out to have a less reliable cell phone network and the videos on their little bird phones kept buffering. birds hate that. so they came back home. because they get $300 from switching back to verizon, and so can you! verizon. come home to a better network. sadly, it's becoming almost a weekly occurrence, another disturbing video showing a white police officer killing an unarmed black man. it was a body camera video that led to the indictment of university of cincinnati police officer ray tensing for the death of samuel dubose this week. tensing claimed he was dragged by dubose's car but the video seemed to tell another story. it's why the call for more police officers to be equipped with body cameras is getting louder, but the problem with

videos from staten island to north charleston to cincinnati are not going to be solved just by cameras. is there a problem with the way we recruit and train police officers in this country? joining me is commissioner charles ramsey of the philadelphia police department, co-chair of president obama's task force on police commissioning. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> it seems as if there's consensus. we have to have body cameras on all police officers, period. is that your view, commissioner? >> yeah, i'm a proponent of body cameras. i think it's very important that we equip our officers with modern technology, body cameras certainly fits into that category. one thing i would like to add to that is that the expense associated with body cameras really needs to be taken into account as our lawmakers pass legislation requiring, it as departments move in that direction. it is a pretty expensive proposition, but i think it's worth it. >> there's certainly growing consensus around that. i want to get to the recruitment

issue, but with all due respect, commissioner, i feel big departments do a pretty good job finding good cops. a lot is suburban police departments, in this case a university police department, do they have lower standards? if they do, how do we raise them up? >> well, it would depend on the university. many universities have standards pretty similar to the larger agencies. i know in philadelphia we train several of the university police that are located in philadelphia. but recruitment is an issue across the country. trying to get diversity, trying to get people in our ranks that really have the proper skill to be able to deal effectively with the community in today's environment. and that is an issue. >> well, let me ask you a blunt question. i know diversifying police departments are very important. a young african-american man or woman seeing everything they've seen about police departments over the last year, why would they want to become one? >> that's a good question and it makes it very tough.

i joined the chicago police department in the late 1960s, a very similar environment. you had vietnam, the civil rights movement, images of what was taking place in the south, police and protesters. and it was something that i had to consider when i decided to come into law enforcement. and lost a few friends along the way as a result of that decision. we can overcome it, but we do have to change the image. right now the image of police in america is not that positive. >> is there a way to change the image beyond just time? do you -- is there something you can do sooner than that to at least spark a change in the image? >> well, one, we have to make sure that we really do hold officers accountable. the majority of our police officers, and there's almost 500,000 in this country that have thousands and thousands of interactions on a daily basis, you don't hear about it because they're not bad interaction. we need to do a better job of the positive things that are going on, but those officers that do act outside of policy,

outside the wall, there has to be consequences, very swift and certain consequences and rid our ranks of those people, then begin to really focus. in fact, we need to focus even during that time on getting people in our ranks. you know, people stay in this business 20, 30 years, so who we hire today is going to be with us for decades to come. >> is this a culture issue, cops protecting cops? i mean, you just see we had two police officers that were sort of taking the university of cincinnati police officer's side of the story, sort of the initial was protect him first rather than protect the truth. >> well, that's part of it. name a profession where you don't have that sort of thing. how often do doctors turn in other doctors for malpractice. lawyers turn in other lawyers. journalists that turn in other journalists that, perhaps, aren't doing the proper research on a story. >> touche. >> we need to be able to deal with that sort of thing, but that's part of a culture that exists in most professions.

a profession. in policing. the role we play in a democratic society is just too important. >> commissioner ramsey, i have to leave it there, but this is a conversation i know you're focused on and we all are interested. thank you for coming on this morning. >> thank you. up next, the other nonpolitician, who is shaking up the republican race. neurosurgeon ben carson. and then we close with donald trump. as someone said earlier this week, it's like preparing for a nascar race knowing one of the drivers is drunk, so how do you prepare for that? leave early go roam sleep in sleep out star gaze dream big wander more care less beat sunrise chase sunset do it all. on us. get your first month's payment plus five years wear and tear coverage. make the most of summer... with volvo. hi my name is tom. i'm raph. my name is anne. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom.

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and welcome back. we talked a lot about thursday's opening republican presidential debate and the role donald trump might be playing, but there's another nonpolitician who will also be on that stage in ohio. it's ben carson. he's, of course, the former neurosurgeon who is unique in the field for many reasons. not the least for being a least of which for being only candidate to be played by cuba gooding jr. in a tv movie. dr. carson, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. always good to be with you. >> let me start with the debate. what do you hope to accomplish? nine other people will be on stage with you. we know you're going to qualify. what do you want to get out of it? >> well, i hope that people will get an opportunity to see who i really am, not who other people have said that i am. and will have an opportunity to actually see what i think about a variety of subjects. you know, i have a tendency to

be asked about medical things. and very seldom do i get asked about, you know, other types of political things that are important. >> you know, it's interesting watching the rise of donald trump, and i know you were asked about this earlier, because you and him do share, along with one other candidate, you're the nonpoliticians in the field. in fact, you and mr. trump are the only ones who have not run for another office. do you think his rise has helped the idea of outsiders or does it hurt you right now as a candidate? >> i think it's a tremendous help. it's a tremendous aid because fewer people are talking about my lack of political experience now. and that's good. because, you know, experience can come from a variety of different places. and certainly the life that you have led, you know, in my case, solving complex problems, being involved in corporate america, starting a national nonprofit, you get an enormous amount of experience doing these things, particularly in solving

problems. and, you know, it's an erroneous thought that only political experience is expedient. >> let's go to some issues. you spoke to the national urban league earlier this week, and you also in an earlier interview this week asked about the black lives matter movement. and you called it silly. why did you call it silly? >> well, you know, i don't -- i don't recall calling it silly, but what i called silly is political correctness going amuck. that's what's silly. when, you know -- i guess it was martin o'malley who said, you know, black lives matter, white lives matter, he got in trouble for that and had to apologize. that's what -- that's what i'm talking about is silly. of course all lives matter. and, of course, we should be very concerned about what's going on, particularly in our inner cities. it's a crime. you know, for a young black man, the most likely cause of death is homicide.

that is a huge problem we need to address in a very serious way. >> that is what the black lives matter movement is doing and why they criticize politicians for saying all lives matter because their point is, until -- that there is\s here. that particularly you brought up african-american men and that overall stat, but think about the issue of police custody, that an african-american is more likely to die in police custody than any other race or ethnicity. >> yeah, but, again, i think we need to look at the whole picture. one of the things that i always like to point out to people is, how about we just remove the police for 24 hours? can you imagine the chaos that would ensue? and the vast majority of police are very good people. are there bad apples? of course. but if you hire a plumber and he does a bad job, do you say all plumbers are bad, let's go out and kill them? i don't think we do that. we need to be a little more mature, but certainly in cases

where police are doing things that are inappropriate, i think we ought to investigate those promptly and justice should be swift. >> let me go to some other issues. immigration, you're one of the few candidates that is comfortable saying that of the 11 million that are here that are undocumented, that they should be given some sort of guest worker -- guest worker permit in order to make them legal, pay some fines, things like that. a lot of conservatives would call that amnesty. why is that not amnesty, in your view? >> well, you know, i have heard people say, yeah, round them all up and send them back. they have no idea what they're talking about and how much that costs and how impractical that is. many of these people don't know any other place. this is the only place they've been. so, where are you going to send them back to in that situation? what i would do instead is let them register and become guest workers. they have to pay back tax penalty and they have to pay

taxes going forward. it does not give them voting rights. it does not make them a citizen. and if they want citizenship, they go to the back of the line and go throughout same process as everybody else because we cannot neglect the people that have done it the right way. >> again, people will call that amnesty. >> they can call it whatever they want to, but we also have to be pragmatic. >> i'm going to close here with a question from a facebook poster. this one came from victor roush. simple question. does the bible have authority over the constitution? >> he said that's a simple question? >> i know. >> that is not a simple question. >> a simply worded question, how's that? >> i think probably what you have to do is ask a very specific question about a specific passage of the bible and a specific portion of the constitution. i don't think you can answer that question other than out of very specific context. >> all right. i will leave that answer there. we'll see if mr. roush likes

that answer or not. dr. carson, thanks for coming on the show. good luck on the debate and stay safe on the trail. >> thank you so much. a quick reminder, if you can't see "meet the press" when we air on sunday morning, no problem. you can catch us on demand or just set your dvr season pass, of course, that way even if it's not sunday, it's "meet the press." coming up next, our "end game" segment where we'll try to answer the question. how would you debate donald trump? the radiant glow of being in love. capture it with new stay luminous makeup. stay luminous has all-day hydration

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breathe better starting within 5 minutes. call or go online to learn more about a free prescription offer. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. yes, it's that time, "end game" time the panel is here. i was thinking about donald trump, guys, what it's like -- have we ever seen the opportunity for someone to debate someone like, this a wild card. let me play a few clips and yes, it's that time, "end game" time, the panel is here. i was thinking about donald trump, guys, what it's like -- have we ever seen the opportunity for someone to debate someone like, this a wild card.

let me play a few clips and see if this jars your memory. here it is. >> i just realized i have a perfect part for you in terminator four. >> investment in education and in health care. >> there must be a ton of pork in the government because when you say the word investment to me, somebody's reaching into my wallet to private sector. >> who am i? why am i here? >> those are three of the more interesting wild card moments. by the way, in all three of those case, two of them, ventura and arnold, won, kathleen, and it was because of their debate. stockdale for other odd reasons. >> being memorable helps a lot. i'm sure he'll be memorable one way or the other. i hope other people are working on their clever responses. you know, as to how different people react to him, it depends on whether you have the ball or whether you're trying to get the ball. i would say to the folks on the far end of the debate stage will probably be interacting with him in a more colorful way. if i were jeb bush, i would continue to be the adult and be ronald reagan and with that there you go again approach

to -- >> chris? >> your real debate will be megan kelley against donald trump because she wants to score points professionally and she has a way to have the camera look at her while she judges whether you're right or not. trushl usual trump usually plays that part. trump used to have that part. she'll be like this, do i believe this guy or not? trump better be careful. he better left let her have a couple points. if he takes her on, that will be television. >> helene, how would you do it? >> it depends on which trump you get. do you get -- >> the one i had? >> yeah, you get the guy you just had, that's a totally different person. you know, i think if i were jeb bush, i would just go for gravitas either way and if it's the guy you have, then it's a far more boring debate, isn't it? >> i don't think that will have far fewer people chiming in. gerry? >> i take him to the commander in chief question. in the cold war there was this question, do you trust this person to have their finger on the button? what are you going to do about isis exactly and isn't that a formula for 75,000 american troops on the ground? take him to the substance of

foreign policy. test him out as candidate in chief. >> we talk about jeb, walker, i had ben carson on. what happened to marco rubio and rand paul here? kathleen? >> they have been sort of moved to the margins a little bit, haven't they? >> is it all trump? >> probably, yeah. i mean, i just think all the focus -- the media focus has been on him so much. while people criticize us for doing it you've got to cover the guy that's leading the group. >> i think there's going to be a post-trump success if he burns out, if he burns out. don't bet on that for sure but if he does someone's going to benefit from that sense of betrayal, that sense of anger we've been talking about. i think it's kasich or walker. somebody to the more interesting regular side than the whig candidate jeb bush. i don't think they're going establishment -- >> he's going whigs on us -- >> you know what i mean. >> i do know what you're talking about. it's the whigs versus the republicans thursday night. that's all for today. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the

sucker punched. caught off guard. this commuter thinks that commuter is talking too loudly on her cell phone so she takes matters into her own hands. >> who knows how far that escalation would have gone with a loaded gun? a hot tempered liquor store patron goes from impatient to out of control. >> i thought the lady lost her mind. >> a convenience store break ln in on four wheels forces a young clerk to run for his life. >> i just hear a loud noise coming from my right. then i turned and saw the car. a guy walks into a bar -- with a chainsaw! >> i've seen crazy animals