presidential debate. c-span is hosting a forum in new hampshire. this is not a sanctioned debate but all major declared gop candidates received an invite. trump's leading the national poll averages securing a seat thursday in cleveland with the new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll with telemundo. factor in the 6-point margin of error and still neck to neck with both scott walker and jeb bush. and in the past month support of jeb bush has been slashed by a third and across the political aisle, the big news well it is about joe biden. will he or he won't he enter the race? nbc news can confirm that the vp has not closed the door on a potential presidential run. those reports this weekend, well they ignited a ton of twitter traffic and renewed interest in the old draft biden super pac. mark murray has the details. mark, let's start on the

republican side of this new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll his support is up and the claim to win the latino vote, they don't hold up. 75% with a negative view of donald trump. that's staggering. put it in context for the non-political junkies throughout. >> they're terrible for the a republican party that wants to do well with the latino vote. donald trump says he would win the latino vote as a nominee. citing a poll that doesn't meet our standards winning in nevada. i think this poll and an oversample of latino respondents debunks that and 61% have a very negative impression of donald trump. 61% of latino voters end up saying that. and so that just really shows you the stark reality, particularly if you end up believing that the latino vote

is one of the big swing votes and determine the presidency in 2016. >> of course the damage is how much question is this doing with the republican brand? we'll learn that as a campaign progresses. mark, break down the poll more for us though. donald trump, where is his support coming from? i went through it. seems to be doing well with independents. he's doing well with the tea party faction. doing well with conservatives. >> yeah. luke, we will have more numbers on donald trump and support and how republicans view him beyond the horse race at 6:30 tonight on "nightly news" on msnbc and certainly nbc news.com. but i think it is fair to say when you look at all other polling out there, he is doing well with all segments of republicans and sometimes surprising with the moderate to liberal republicans. but he does pretty well with conservatives. he does pretty well with tea party folks. but what is i think worth noting about donald trump is that he almost seems to be maximizing with the republicans who are in support of him. there is still a sizable portion

of the republican party that's opposed to him which shows that he does have a pretty low ceiling here. doing well among all republicans giving him a chance and i think it is republicans that don't want to give him a chance that can spell his fate in january, february and march in the primaries and caucuses. >> as of right now, more than content to allow the show to go on. we appreciate it. let's bring in jonathan allen, chief political correspondent at fox. thank you for being on the show. >> thank you. >> donald trump had this to say about his debate prep and what he expects. >> i'm not a debater. i've never debated before. never been on a stage debate. my life is a debate in one way and never been 0 a formal stage debating so i don't know. >> and i think the question john is that the other candidates don't know what to expect from donald trump. john weaver, the adviser to john kasich said it's like preparing for a nascar race knowing a driver is drunk.

how do these other candidates prepare for trump and what is trump hoping to accomplish on thursday? >> i think each of them has to have a strategy. i think jeb bush or scott walker hoping that one of the other guys takes him on in a full frontal way and see if they get under donald trump's skin undermine the points. but, you know, i don't think it's a collective response. i think ideally for republicans, donald trump will show himself to be less appealing to republican voters than been so far. >> john, we heard from the jeb camp over the weekend that they love donald trump staying in the news because it allows them they say to not have to deal with the rise of a challenger like a scott walker or perhaps marco rubio going to challenge from the right. now, there's another side the walker people say, look donald trump is good for us showing that there's an angry conservative part of our primary electorate that we are in much better position to take than jeb bush is. who do you think he benefits more, the jeb camp or the walker camp? >> can i be quoted rolling my

eyes they're not worried about the rise of donald trump? looking up at somebody ahead of you in the standings, you should be concerned. but look. i think -- i think they're both trigt an extent. looking for silver linings, jeb bush is right that you know, this is winnowing out the other contenders and might be best for scott walk we are an opportunity to land between them and show he's a serious guy along the lines that jeb bush wants to be and also hearing and frustrations of the republican party that led to the rise of a complete outsider of reality tv star to the leading spot in the gop primary field. >> i think the party's still trying to figure out what it is that trump tapped into it. make no doubt about it. they need that to try to win the general so they have to figure it out. let's turn over to the democratic side jonathan. huge story this weekend. i'm going to read the quote of dowd's piece which i think jumped out to a lot of people about joe biden and son bo.

beau was losing his nouns and the right side of the face partially paralyzed and tried to make his father promise to run arguing that the white house should not revert back to the clintons. hunter pushed his father telling him, dad, it's who you are. maureen dowd placinge inging beau biden to his father. what a narrative that is. >> she got the inside the room details. i don't think there were a lot of people inside that room. so this is something that's probably coming from either hunter biden or joe biden himself. you know hunter biden said to be extremely active in pushing his father obviously, somebody's pushing joe bide on the get into the race through the pages of "the new york times." the broader story that beau biden was in favor is something that "the new york times" reported a while ago. not only do they want him to run and think about beau biden's dying wish there, but also wanted to make sure it was

repeated and got a little bit more traction. >> it certainly striking. pulls on people's heartstrings. when you break down the possibility of a biden candidacy and look at it objectively, jon, the first thing that he would have to do is beat her in a primary. and if you look at the breakdown, is it way over 50%, possibly 60% of the primary electorate in the democratic side is women, hillary clinton has very high favorability numbers with democrats herself. she is a little bit behind in terms of trustworthiness. joe biden not younger, not latino. he's not that much more energetic than say, somebody else. where does he come at her in a democratic primary? probably to the right of her. definitely not the left. >> this is a big challenge for him. one area where he might be able to contrast from the left is that he's been a lot more dovish on foreign policy at least as president obama's vice president. there's several issues there within. he was against the bin laden

raid. he was against intervening in libya and the afghanistan surge and clinton were all of them and plays differently but he could present himself as a dovish candidate. that helps him with white elites or white working class voters and the challenge for him is breaking into hillary clinton's effective coalition politics. can he win latino voters? take away african mirn voters? he is included in a lot of polls and well well behind her and most behind bernie sanders, as well. he is not in the race and i don't think you can make a judgment until he runs but he's got his work cut out for him if he does. >> he does. there's not a segment he instantly has. jonathan allen of vox, thank you. take care. >> take care. now to breaking news out of colorado. the jury deciding the fate of convicted theater shooter james holmes has reached a second

verdict. juror wills move on to the final portion where they'll decide if holmes deserves to die. scott cohen is outside the courthouse in centennial colorado. victim pact statements play a key role and one juror could prevent a death sentence in colorado. tell us about this. >> reporter: that was the case luke, in the phase that just concluded and colorado law sets a high bar. just to give you a sense of the power of this verdict, again, only a single juror could say, there are enough mitigating factors, mental illness and the like, we should just sentence him to life in prison and be done with it. any without any explanation to the fellow jurors. it took the jury about two and a half hours to throw out all of that mitigating evidence. the emotional testimony of holmes' parents and sister and say, no we want to move on.

in this next phase, the prosecution will present what we expect will be some very powerful testimony from survivors, family me believes people who have felt the full effect of this crime. they're also one more opportunity for james holmes to make a statement in his own defense. he's declined to do that but his life is now on the line. >> this is a story to continue to watch. thanks so much for your wonderful reporting from colorado. and we'll continue to track those developments and here's what else we are following overall. just minutes ago, the president unveiled a major new clean energy plan. can he get congress on board? not likely. right now, wildfires raging in california w. the latest on the extreme measures firefighters are taking to contain the flames. mh-370 investigators huddle in paris over that wing piece. what clues does it hold? that and more when we come back.

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believe it or not, this could be the week we finally solve the greatest aviation mist write of our time. something that rivals even the disappearance of amelia earhart. for 16 months, we have been wondering what happened to flight 370. the answer could investigator lickly very likely lie on reunion island. >> reporter: that's right, luke. malaysian officials due to meet in paris with a french judge and experts to determine how they'll examine the possible pieces of debris on this island in the indian ocean on wednesday. the suspected wing fragment is

tested and experts say they'll be looking at the barnacles, the sea life clinging to that piece to see whether the chemical competition of the water or the temperature of the water yooelds any clues to pinpoint the rest of the wreckage. meanwhile. high winds are blowing from the east and bringing lots of other debris on the shoreline and poses a challenge. there's hundreds of objects on the beach. most of it every day ocean trash and trying to identify which is garbage and could be a potentially significant clue in the mh-370 mystery could be a big headache for them in the coming days. meanwhile, officials are putting no time scale on that testing forensic process in france and won't begin until wednesday and could take several days and more waiting and when's already been a 16-month mystery. luke? >> thanks so much for that update. now let's dig deeper into what

investigators are hoping to find there on reunion island. we're joined by an underwater specialist who knows more than i do about all of this president of the group mad dog expeditions and a world renoenled diver and knows about the sea. thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you. >> we appreciate your time. the barnacles attached to the wing we believe that this wing is from a 777. there's only one missing in the world and seems to line up. a lot of marine biologists and others say you can learn from the wing and where it's been. what are the clues they provide? >> well it's as allister said they're going to examine the barnacles to try to determine through growth rate and decay how long they have been attached, how long they have been at sea so ideally it will be able to tell us a little more information about whether wreckage has been -- it could have been there for days months.

that's what they're going to try to help determine through a myriad of biological observations and testing. >> we believe that mh-370 went down about 2,300 miles from reunion, that is what the speculation is. and that's quite a distance. >> right. >> what could we learn about the sort of currents? is there anything to pick up on this? where it may have gone or a crash site for you. >> this is the million-dollar question. at this point, the debris field that -- if this is and it looks like it is the flapperon, will have help us sort of determine that there is wreckage and the most important thing is that if you have this mid central indian ocean, depths of 24,000 feet you have a debris field and will be there. it's somewhere out there. at this point, this is going to start people really looking, taking into account when's been washing ashore and a matter of time with the currents as you said there's a debris field

somewhere along the coastal islands. >> what are some of the challenges that you are faced with, underwater topography. they're not well-known areas or mapped. what are the challenges? >> well there's so many challenges at this point looking at 16 months into this. the topography as you said, you have rough seas in the next month or two shutting down operations. i don't think there's anything that they can do at this point other than to keep searching in the area that they have been searching. we don't have any reason to go elsewhere. the challenges are going to be you can't put people in the water. you're looking for floating objects and each object has a different characteristic. but yancey characteristic. that determines how far the debris field may be moving. they should be looking along reunion and madagascar. trying to follow these current patterns and i believe it was the university of western australia that had a very good model that predicted withen 18

to 24 months to have the debris and on track, i think. >> remarkable thinking about the technology to come down to sort of the investigation of barnacles and ocean currents thing that is we don't necessarily attach to a plane accident. christine, thank you so much for being on the show. take care. still ahead, a manhunt under way right now for the suspect in the shooting of a police officer during a drug deal over the weekend. we'll go to memphis for the very latest on that sad story. trump is on top of a latest poll. what would a trump presidency yes, i said that correctly, what ld that look like? we'll be back in three. it's so shiny. i know, mommy, but it's time to let the new kitchen get some sleep. ♪ if you want beautiful results, you know where to go. angie's list. everyone can shop for services from highly rated companies, even without a membership. but as a member, you can save more. and you get exclusive access to ratings

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developing now, a political power play from the president this afternoon when it comes to climate change. >> i am here to say if we want to protect our economy and security and our children's

health we're going to have to do more. the science tells us we have to do more. today after working with states and cities and power companies, the epa is setting the first-ever nationwide standards to end the limitless dumping of carbon pollution from power plants. >> msnbc's alex seitz-wald at the white house. alex, this really is a historic initiative by the administration. congress is not going to overnight accept everything he said here. >> reporter: absolutely luke. historic is about the only thing both sides can agree on. for opponent, they view it as an industry, way of life coal mining going away and for the administration, this is a promise that goes back at least to the administration when obama said it was under his watch to start to roll back the sea levels rising and start to see

something about climate change a promise unfulfilled largely seven years and finally doing something ate. they're touting big changes from this. equivalent of 106 million cars off the road and, luke i want to play you a little bit of the speech. emotional here for the president talking about his grand kids swimming in hawaii. take a look. >> i don't want my grand kids not to be able to swim in hawaii or not to be able to climb a mountain and see a glacier because we didn't do something about it. i don't want millions of people's lives disrupted and this world more dangerous because we didn't do something about it. that would be shameful of us. >> reporter: you know, for a president who's often seen as above the fray not very emotional, too rational, that

speaks to the power obama sees in making this move luke. >> indeed. tears in his eyes. alex thank you for that report. folks in california can't catch a break. 21 wildfires burning throughout the state this afternoon. 90 square miles. roughly issize of baltimore engulfed right now. dozens of homes destroyed. thousands more are at risk. nbc's joe fry yaer with the latest on the fire fight. >> reporter: the rocky fire continues to grow at an unprecedented rate. it is now burned 60,000 acres, over the weekend. it tripled in size. but firefighters are starting to gain the upper hand. they now have it 12% contained. and improvement from over the weekend when it was just 5% contained. flames are largely burning in a more remote area away from homes but they know in the hot, dry conditions things change in an instant. the winds have been unpredictable with a number of challenges. two dozen homes burned in the

fire. right now, more than 13,000 people have been evacuated because the fire threatens their homes across drought-stricken california more than 20 large wildfires are burning right now. the governor declared a state of emergency clearing the way for more resources to come in and fight the flames and that includes helicopters and air tankers. in all, in california, 9,000 firefighters are now on the ground. they're hoping that slightly cooler temperatures today will help them make more progress. back to you. >> yeah let's hope for that indeed, joe fryer, thank you. we have a developing story out of memphis this afternoon. cops have identified a suspect in the death of a police officer over the weekend. now, they're on the hunt to track him down. nbc's adam reiss in memphis for us. adam, how goes the search? >> reporter: luke good afternoon. police and u.s. marshals on the hunt for tremendous mail wilburn, armed and dangerous. they say wanted for first-degree murder.

served ten years in prison for a bank robbery charge. the officer is patrolling by himself. approaches a car illegally parked. doesn't realize it, he's interrupting a drug deal. the person in the car wilburn jumps out, confronts him. a struggle and wilburn according to police shoots him several times. wilburn and the driver flee the scene leaving bolton on the ground to die. several people try to call 911 but could n't get through until someone uses his two-way radio to reach and call out for help. police officials say it's all for less than two grams of marijuana. >> when you look at this individual you're looking at a coward. to show you how senseless this is, this is less than 2 grams of marijuana. a misdemeanor citation. >> reporter: now there's a $10,000 reward for wilburn's capture. now, police officials here say this is exactly why the car, when you pull someone over so

dangerous. they don't know if the person is armed or not. they don't have dash cams or body cams here. bolton, 33 served in iraq in the ma reens, served here for five years. he's a third officer here to die in the last four years. luke? >> tragedy in memphis. thanks so much for that report. now to a controversy so massive it ended up on the side of the empire state building. an image of cecil the lion and endangered animals to raise awareness worldwide. we're joined now by famed biologist jeff corwin. and, jeff these lions supposed to be on protected wildlife proservels. how protected are they really? we saw what happened with cecil. he was lured out by some bait. >> hey there, luke. good to talk with you. unfortunately, it is very very true. cecil was lured literally out of a protected sanctuary. national parks are sacred. just like here in the united states you mentioned the term

protected reserves. they're more than that. they represent the ultimate protected place coming to wild landscapes and wild creatures and in the united states as well as in places around the world, and including zimbabwe it is illegal to hunt in a national park. >> jeff one thing we've heard a lot from some of these safari groups is that look you might not like what we're doing, hunting the trophy hunts, the big games, the lions and elephants and so what. but we do do a service that a lot of money paid for the hunts goes into conservation to pro- serve the population. do you think there's truth to that? is that a bloated claim? >> it's an interesting and very sort of taboo subject. you know? is there a benefit from hunting? and, when it comes to the metrics, when it comes to money, a lot of these countries, there's basically 11 out of 54

countries in africa today that allow big game hunting. and a lot of the money they use to manage natural resources comes from the hunting license and the specific specy tags. but if you want to compare it luke, to the united states we generate $700 million from hunting, fishing license and public land use. and that covers half the budget of managing these resources for all 50 u.s. states. so, there is definitely a financial contribution that comes from hunting to resource management. >> it's interesting to see how that issue plays out, specifically. jeff, there is a lot of worry regarding cecil's cubs. the idea and you're a bigger expert on this than i am if the father lion dies another adult lion could see the kubls as a threat and hurt them and so far they have not been hurt. >> it's unfortunately a

conundrum coming to the dark side of lion ecology and the family structure of a lion pride. the male basically, the head lion, protects his environment and by doing that he has access to the females to breed with them. really, that's about it. he provides some defense and he has some connection but it's the females, it's the lionesses, luke, that do the lion's share of this work. here's what happens. when a competitor moves in the first thing he does is disposes or deposes the head lion either drives him away or kills him in battle. then what he does is usually kills all his cubs and that plishls two things. one, it gets rid of his genetic competition and the other thing it accomplishes is brings the females in to season in to heat to breed with him. it's very true often the case that the babies are in great peril when dad is gone. that's not always the case. it depends on how healthy and

how protected that ecosystem is and also depends on any competing lions that want to move in and take over cecil's territory. >> lastly get you out of here with this one, do you suspect the dentist who killed cecil, there's a lot of talk of him being extradited back to zimbabwe, if in fact that does happen, do you think it changes the overall nature of these big game hunts or do you think it will just be a temp tear weeklong news story and people move on eventually? >> well there's a few ways the look at that luke. first of all, i think it's unlikely he is sent back to zimbabwe for trial. but if these accounts are true and these accusations are correct, he will be defined as a poacher and a poach, even a legal hunt we are the permits and tags if you break the law, you are a poacher but the trend for hunting is decreasing.

keep in mind 60 million people visit africa every year. right? out of that 60 million people only about 18,000 people are hunting. spread over 200 million acres of habitat in 11 countries. and overall we see this trend developing both in the u.s. and internationally coming to hunting. but the biggest danger to lions is poaching. poaching is the thing that's wiping out most of africa's creatures. the reason why one out of every 12 african elephants is disappearing is because of poaching. it's why rhinos are on the decline. it is a $20 billion a year industry and it is wiping these incredible creatures off the face of the earth. >> tragedy, indeed. what you're doing by spreading awareness of it can only make a situation perhaps better. jeff corwin thank you for the time. we appreciate it. take care. still ahead, life behind bars with no hope of getting it. >> it's a nightmare that doesn't

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whether it's for your business or your personal life, don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up. because we're here. we're here we're here and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here. welcome back. let's get a reset here for you. french and malaysian investigators met in paris today as they try to determine whether that wing piece discovered on reunion island definitely belongs to missing airline flight 370. meantime meantime, the search for other possible wreckage continues on the island. cooler and wetter weather is helping firefighters as they battle to contain a massive wildfire in northern california that's already burned two dozen homes and is threatening thousands more. and torrential rains prompting evacuations and rescues in central florida. there's up to six inches of rain in some areas. showers forecasted to ling sbeer

the night and then taper off. and now let's go back to the top story, politics with the first 2016 republican debate now just three days away our brand new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows donald trump is topping the list. sunday on "meet the press" trump talked about the debate prep strategy. >> who knows? i certainly -- i think i know most of the subjects very well. i've been through it. a lot of people have been asking me a lot of questions for three or four months and we'll see what happens. but again, i don't think you can artificially prepare for something like this. >> many continue to have trouble taking the candidacy seriously and the national journal's new cover story tries in an interesting thing happens, staff writer andy kroll joins us. thank you for making the time. >> thank you for having me. >> one thing i've always thought about covering donald trump is if you actually covered donald

trump on the issues he's a notorious flip flopper. i'm playing a clip of a few weeks ago of "meet the press." >> i'm almost more disappointed with the republicans. they have to toughen up on obamacare which is a total lie and which is a total and complete disaster. >> health care? >> liberal on health care. we have to take care of people that are sick. >> universal health care? >> we have to take care -- nothing else. when's the country about if we don't take care of our sick? >> i'm pro-life. >> i'm very pro-choice. i hate the concept of abortion. i hate it. i hate everything it stands for. i cringe listening to people debating the subject. but you still -- i just believe in choice. >> i mean that's so remarkable. i covered the republican backlash against health care on capitol hill. anybody that supported universal health care at any stage immediately tarred and feathered

and then on the topic of abortion, i mean, that's a cardinal sin to say you're about being pro-choice. how come donald trump you feel has essentially been allowed to escape from this and been able to run this campaign where he's gotten so much conservative support? >> well i think what donald trump makes an appearance at somewhere like laredo texas, or des moines iowa he is asked questions and just a king at brushing things off or just dismissing them out of hand. and moving on to the next question. i mean i saw it firsthand following on the border. people ask him questions and if he didn't like it he completely deny the question or deny reality which i saw multiple times and move on. you know i think that talking about taking trump seriously, you know what does he stand for and be like as president, we can take trump's own words from one of these clips about debate prep and said who knows? that's basically what we came about with in this story is a

shrug and who knows what he is thinking and doesn't deserve to be taken seriously that we. >> interesting a lot of fellow candidates not really gone after him because they don't want to upset conservatives but going after him after his record there's an opening there. in terms of media coverage you had words. i want to read them. quote, in laredo i expected to see stories confirming perhaps even lamenting the futility of it. the stories tended to describe the visit as a run of the mill presidential campaign event as if it's just the kind of performance that a jeb bush or a scott walker say might have given if they scheduled a day at the border. are we failing as a media? >> i think that we're not treating trump as he should be covered if we should be coffering him at all. i say at the end of the piece, media could quit him and should quit him. i don't think it meenls stop covering the phenomenon of trump. i would love to see reporting of

people in polls who say they like what he is saying on the campaign trail, like something that's connecting with them and a ton of you know interesting insights to be gleaned there. as for trump himself, yeah i mean, i don't think he deserves the coverage he is getting, the attention he is getting. i think as i say, again, in the story, that, you know if the media disappeared, i think he would, too. he lives for this and feeds off of that. we're feeding his id in some way and probably doesn't care about poll numbers. they're abstract and meaningless at this point. media has a role to play. could be more critical or probing of him if it follows him around for as long as he is in this race. >> you sent him very straight forward questions and what would you look for in a vice president and sort of solve a congressional dysfunction? you know aside of immigration, if you were to put your name on a domestic piece of legislation, what would it be? these are very average run of the mill questions that presidential candidates field

all the time. if you go on his we believe site there's nothing about this. if you go on scott walker or jbl's website, you're filling with policy papers and articles of what can come up in a republican primary. why do you think we as a media missed this completely? he is not willing to put himself out there at a meaningful substantive way on an issue even beneficial to him. >> i think he makes good copy. i think he makes good headlines. i think that he you know i mean stories, interviews with him, get traction. and people are drawn to it in some way. and it's probably not, you know probably not as appealing to be walk me through how you would roll out an immigration reform. have you seriously thought about it? he hasn't. now, to give credit you know there have been a handful of stories, more recently saying where are your policy ideas? donald trump your website doesn't have a policy section on it. it's been trump spectacle.

digging back into his past, his business deals, his hair obviously. but not as much on the fact that again, the website doesn't have a policy section on it. >> andy i want to read a concluding sentence of this piece. i thought it said so much. quote, so this is my story, such as it is. i have zero to report about trump's plans for being president except for from all available evidence he hasn't given it a moment's thought. that's just -- it's striking. it's striking. how did you -- tell me about that. like, how did you leave it at that? >> well i just looked over all my failed attempts to try to get something out of his campaign. i mean one of his top advisers you know dismissed those question that is you read off earlier as really quite silly questions and then started saying something about trump's wife's wardrobe which was not in my set of questions and i don't know where that came from and attempts to get something out of

the campaign spokeswoman went nowhere and at the end of the day the fact i had nothing became the story and really had no clue whatsoever from these questions, from talking to his campaign from going to layredo and the interviews elsewhere, you are left with really nothing and nothing becomes the story here. >> we have often talked about how politicians are loathe to give us specific details but this takes it to a whole new level. andy, thank you so much for the story. everyone, check it out. have a good day. >> thanks. today the co-creator of hitchhiking robot that melt the untimely ending this weekend say they may rebuild. after making it safely across canada and parts of europe the bot relied on the kindness of strangers destroyed after just two weeks in the u.s. yes, america. vandalized in philadelphia. the city of brotherly love. what is wrong with people? in philadelphia they threw

snowballs at santa claus. the social experiment made it into canada netherlands, germany and boston. winning friends and tens of followers and left us with an enduring message. my trip must come to an end for now but my love for humans will never fade. godspeed, hitch-bot. you are adorable. thank you. ladies your belts all snugged up? why do we have to buckle up? the pick up stinks with diesel. [ding] you've got to be kidding! oh please! ah! this is the end! oh my god! [brakes screech] we need resuscitation. mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. hurry up! [laughing] doers. they don't worry if something's possible. they just do it. at sears optical, we're committed to bringing them eyewear that works as hard as they do. right now, buy one pair and get another free. quality eyewear for doers.

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honor and prison aren't two words you normally hear

together. you may have heard of honor blocks. convicted killers enmatt and sweat, escaped from one in new york in june. honor block was shut down across the country the so called honor yard at california state prison has been turned into a unique place for those seeking self improvement during a life sentence. >> this is it. if you look around at my surrounds, which are a stones throw either way. this is it. this is all i have. what can i do with my life? what can i do in here? should i allow what i can't change to drive me crazy or should i just continue to help the people i can, contribute where i can and do the best that i can in the life that i given? and that's what i do. >> toe tag parole to live and die on a yard follows 3 of the more than 600 prisoners living inside the walls. premieres tonight on hbo. thank you for being on the show.

>> thank you for having us. >> so what is -- we'll start with you, susan. what is the honor yard? and how does it work? >> well it is an experimental yard we started in 2000 for lifers. california has the highest population of men serving life sentences and lifers are a special kind of people. at some point they recognize that is it. they are going to be there. and they wanted a yard that was free of violence because violence dominates prison life. it is very stressful. so the cdcr california department of corrections, created this yard. and you have to have strict regulations to get in. three years of no incidents on your record. no drug no gang affiliation, no violence and you have to participate in these classes. >> some clips are striking. i want to play one about these folks in there for life who they say about their nns. >> i'm sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

which is exactly what it says it is life without the possibility of parole. it is not better than the death sentence because it is the death sentence. it is not a better kind of death penalty. it is the death penalty. and the outcome of the death penalty is death. it is never being free again. so it is the death penalty. i have reconciled the fact that i will probably almost certainly die in prison. >> allen, we get a sense of the hopelessness that the prisoners face here but one thing this honor yard seems to do is give them a sense of purpose, a sense of life a sense of ability to perhaps get fulfillment. talk about that. >> well as the combination of peer group sessions that hopefully help them adjust to prison life. they have anger management. we have a veterans group, people who served in the armed forces. also an interesting one called houses of heeling where they are asked to come to terms with the

pain they inflicted on their victims and victims' families. there is also art program, music program, creative writing. these are all efforts to i guess help them grow spiritually and emotionally and make them better people. and i guess the concept that america is largely dispensed with rehabilitation, you know where you try to get someone to change and become a better person. >> susan it is one of these things that politically it is so difficult. because people will say why are you giving these opportunities to prisoners? we should be giving these opportunities to children and this is not the right ray to go about it. these part-time did some terrible things. but when you break it down not only does this lower the amount of violence at prisons, but if your the most conservative of conservatives this actually saves money. talk about that. >> we have locked everybody up is basically what we've done. and when you take these men

serving life without. there are no programs for them. the corrections people say why spend money on them they are never getting out. so this program gives them things do. if they you county give them things to do they can revert to violence. and as far as giving this to children most certainty. our prison budget is high. and and if you keep locking people up at this rate you are going to have a geriatric population and giving them healthcare and that budget is going to go really high. i would rather see us look over our prisons and understand it is out of control and needs fixing and maybe we should spend more on education or maybe we should upgrade our policing and re-examine how policing in neighborhoods can change crime. instead of just locking everybody up. >> an interesting by-product of this program is that it improved race relations in prison.

and one thing we learn from prison is ultimately it is all broken down by race and that is how gangs form. what did this do for race relations? >> as part of the process of getting on this experimental yard people have to -- the prisoners have to agree to not identify by race. they have to co-mingle. meaning they have to play sports together. >> and that is a really hard thing to do in prison. >> i would say in 99% of the prisons in america all races self identify. the white guys black guy, a large hispanic population. they don't intermingle. but here they do. and i think it is something that is aless lesson to teach other systems that you don't have to have this polarized tense situation where violence is lurking any minute. you can create a mellower yard where the prisoners interming. >> well, and guards actually like this too because they don't

have to worry about certain ganging fighting it out. thank you for joining us. everyone check out that documentary tonight. and that is it for us at the 3:00 p.m. hour. eamon is up next with the latest on politics thecal wild fires and the american express for travel and entertainment worldwide. just show them this - the american express card. don't leave home without it! and someday, i may even use it on the moon. it's a marvelous thing! oh! haha! so you can replace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card.

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. we are following major development in the shooting trial in colorado movie theaters. in california firefighters are battling a massive and fast

growing fire with 12,000 people already forced from their homes will there be any more accusations today. and. and reports that vice president joe biden, will he run? good afternoon. we start with big news from the president today. it is being called the strongest u.s. action ever taken to combat climate change and the clean power unveiled is also a major part of his legacy. announcing new regulations to cut greenhouse gas emissions, the president said taking action is a moral obligation. >> as one of america's governors has said we're the first generation to feel the impact of climate change