joining us tonight, really appreciate it. it's the time for politics. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. on my way tonight on the center of the storm. cleveland, ohio. home of the indians, the browns, and tomorrow night, huge debate of ten wannabe presidents of the united states. and whatever anyone says now, it's going to be a contest. we won't know the results of this latest tv reality show until it goes live in color, with everyone competing, including the questioners. everybody wants to look good, thrilled to see their rivals look bad. and nothing will stop it from being a zero sum game. if trump wins, the others lose. talk about extreme combat.

can trump trump or is he a roman candle everyone else is just waiting it see die? rudy guiliani, mayor of new york and a presidential candidate himself. that's my question to you, is he a roman candle, donald trump, or will he stay the distance and become a contender? >> first of all, he's not a roman candle. he's a very smart guy. he is media savvy in ways that some of the other candidates aren't. and he's a lot more substantive than you realize. i know donald 25 years. meaning, he understands a lot of the world issues with a lot more depth than you probably realize. so we might have a little bit of a ronald reagan here, a guy they underestimate. in my particular case, i'm personal friends with five or six of them. and i have a hard time deciding who i'd like to see be president and i'm probably going to take a little while. but i expect donald trump is

going to do pretty darn well tomorrow night. >> is he or is he not afraid of megan kelly? i need to know. >> i have to tell you, that story was so false. never talked to roger about it. never talked to donald about it. somebody made it up. i talked to him about it afterwards, after i got the call. but he did not call me to ask me anything like that. and i would never call roger to ask him anything like that. >> how about the other roger? >> which roger? >> roger stone. was there anybody else involved in pushing this story? >> nobody has asked me -- oh, who put the story out, i don't know. probably some jerk. >> they have a name for themselves. jerk. >> how about meyer? >> okay, good. let me ask you about this thing about new york. i grew up in philly, which competes with new york and loses a lot. new york's the big apple, it's loud, people are big, jackie gleason, the image of new york.

when you ran the last time for president, i thought, there's an anti-new york thing going, and now i look at trump who's like mr. big apple, loud, braggadocio, i'm the boss, i'm the smartest, the best looking, the richest the, it's like muhammad ali talking, yet it seems to work. why has the country changed so much? what's going on with the new york attitude? it seems to be selling when it didn't before. >> one thing, i thought september 11 changed the attitude of a lot of people toward new york. i traveled a lot of america before and plenty more after. and after september 11, people's attitude towards new york, i think, changed a little. second, i think people are desperate for clear-talking, tough, you know, leadership. i think they're even willing to disagree with somebody, if the person would just be straight and honest with them. you know, i think in that way,

donald has kind of grabbed that. >> yeah, and he's not the first one. christie tried to go for that, and of course he messed up with the bridge story, we know that, but he was going for that too. the tough-talking, excuse me, it's none of your business, that kind of talk. >> maybe there wouldn't be trump if christie didn't have the bridge thing. you're right. and as far as who is the best debater on the stage, bush will be very substantive, very good. rubio will be smart as heck. but christie is about as good a debater as you're going to find. he's a trial lawyer, which gives him a great advantage. so i would not count him out. >> let's talk about your party because you are relationship, always have been and yet the party has not always been in agreement with you. we've gotten the same-sex thing behind us, the abortion issue is not going away. but i'm looking at the republican platform here. your party hasn't changed. we reaffirm our support of a

constitutional amendment defining marriage as the union -- this is the weird part -- of one man and one woman. strange the way they word that. but what are they talking about? why in the world does your party want to stick with something that's now constitutionally protected, the right to -- whether people like it or not, it's constitutionally protected, same-sex marriage. why do you stick with it? what is your party up to here? >> i'm not the right person to ask because those portions ever the platform i never paid attention to. i'm a republican because of national security and because of financial conservativism. i'm a very conservative republican on finance, on economics, on low taxes, and i'm a hawk and proud to be. >> i certainly know that part. >> and proud to be one, because i think america needs to be the policeman of the world, otherwise china moves in, iran moves in. i see iran developing an empire, a persian empire in the middle east.

and i see saudi arabia having to react to that. those are the reasons i'm a republican. to me, these are bigger issues. on the social issues, you know it's one of the reasons i couldn't win when i tried and i haven't run again, because i can't get past the first litmus test, which is, i'm against abortion personally, as a catholic, but i feel a woman has to make that decision. i don't think it's my decision to make. i am in favor of gay marriage, my name is on the brief in the supreme court in the case that was successfully won. and on immigration, although i think i'd be the toughest on stopping people at the border, i also believe that at the end of the road, if they're good people and they do the stuff they're supposed to do, they should become citizens. but we should end the illegal part of their coming in. if we could do both those things, we'd accomplish what ronald reagan and your boss wanted to accomplish -- >> that was a good build-up. it was always a good bill.

let me -- lets have some fun here. first of all, sanctuary cities, they'll be arguing about all this with you. the country loves a good new york showman. it does now anyway. a few years ago, donald trump tackled vince mcmahon at wwe wrestle mania. and in 2000, you made an appearance with trump as part of a -- we got to bring it back. [ laughter ] >> you know, you're really beautiful. and a woman that looks like that has to have her own special scent. >> oh, thank you. maybe you could tell me what you think of this scent. >> mmmm, i like that. >> that may be the reason you didn't get the nomination before, but that is certainly timely to bring that out. we didn't show the rest of it. got a little gross there, but the part you showed -- >> the reality is, they used that one against me in south carolina.

so trump better watch out. that was one of the things i really liked to do. i think i'm a pretty darned good actor. >> let me ask you about this thing. how does your party go from this red hot, we like trump, at least now, to going back to the more established, really establishment bush family come the end of this fight? >> we've done it before. we did buchanan and then we went to bush. we've had this happen before. >> has it ever worked? >> well, it worked that time. i guess that's the time he won. look, you got a lot of people in it. you got a lot of good people in it. i know some of them really, really well. i'd like to get to know walker and kasich better, although i like both of them very much. the other group i'm much friendlier with. rand paul is a little too libertarian for me.

and cruz, maybe he's trying it a little too fast, but most of the rest of them, i have no problem with. >> wait a minute, don't kid me. you wouldn't back huckabee for two seconds. come on. >> look, mike huckabee is very right-wing, the way some of the others are. but as a person, i happen to like mike maybe more than most. i ran against him, got to know him really well during the debates. and he's an honest man. so i could certainly live with that. but i think it's going to be bush or trump or one of those guys -- >> trump really? you think trump can win the nomination? he can win? >> i think you better watch out. >> no, but you just said you think it's going to be trump or bush -- >> i was going to add trump, bush, rubio, maybe christie, long shot. kasich, long shot. walker, more than a long shot. it's that group.

>> i think donald trump is going to be proud to hear what you just said, you put him in the contender's circle. i don't know. >> i think he's going to be there until, you know, they get deep into it and nobody knows what happens. >> okay, last question, who are you rooting for tomorrow night? >> i'm rooting for a great debate. one in which we get a lot of attention for all these candidates and i got too many friends here to -- that's why i declined doing all commentary after the debate. i'm afraid i'll insult one of my friends. if some guy makes a big mistake, i don't want to be the first one to say, boy, that was the dumbest thing i ever heard and i'm too honest not to do that. >> love to have you on if you change your mind and decide to get cruel. we'll have two hours of coverage here on msnbc and back at 11:00 eastern until 1:00 in the morning. coming up, we'll talk to two pros, real professionals, how do you take on the trump man?

big question for all four guys with the best shot to be president. bush, walker, rubio and kasich. how do you prepare to take the stage against an outrageous showman like donald trump? plus, president obama selling his nuclear deal with iran upon. inside the new more aggressive campaign of hillary clinton, it's getting tough and he's getting tough. turning up the heat on the republican rivals, calling them out by name on women's rights, voting rights and immigration. and the dos and don'ts, rules live by for the republican candidates as they take the debate stage tomorrow night. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

you're not at all concerned? about what now?ly? oh, i don't know. the apocalypse? we're fine. i bundled renter's with my car insurance through progressive for just six bucks more a month. word. there's looters running wild out there. covered for theft. okay. that's a tidal wave of fire. covered for fire. what, what? all right. fine. i'm gonna get something to eat. the boy's kind of a drama queen. just wait. where's my burrito? [ chuckles ] worst apocalypse ever. protecting you till the end. now, that's progressive. >> i'm just saying, you referred to individual mandates, my

friend. >> you know what, you've raised that before, rick. and it was true then. and it's true now. i'll tell you what, 10,000 bucks. $10,000 bet. >> i'm not in the betting business. but i wrote the book. >> that was a classic moment between mitt romney and rick perry in the last republican primary cycle. be sure to join us tomorrow night for full coverage live from cleveland for the happy hour and primetime debates. we'll have full coverage prior to the debates and a second session from 11:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. we'll be right back. take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain,

as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. we don't use msg, bha, bht or partially hydrogenated oils. why? because if it's not a better ingredient, it doesn't make a better pizza. it's that simple. ♪

welcome back to "hardball." all eyes and ears will be focused on donald trump in tomorrow's debate. how should his opponents take him on? do you attack or take the defensive? trump says he's not going after his nearest competitors like jeb bush or scott walker.

let's watch. >> i'm not looking to do that. i'm not looking to hurt anybody. i'm not looking to embarrass anybody. if i have to bring up deficiencies, i'll bring up deficiencies. but certainly i'm not looking to do that. i'd rather go straight down the middle. you don't know what's going to happen. >> there will be ten debaters and some may wish they had a chair and a whip to handle donald trump, the lion in the room. joining us, charlie blanket and steve mcmahon. you guys have a wealth of experience in this. is it like a chair and a whip, charlie, when you're up against donald trump? >> i think it's fine for the news media to promote trump and to make the debate all about him. >> we are doing that. >> you are, but it's not about him. >> it isn't? >> no, it's not. he gets the same eight or nine minutes as all the other candidates. >> who's going to get the

headline? >> you never know, but i don't think it will be trump. i think it will be one of the other guys. an unknown. even jeb bush. they need to get their background, and where they stand on the issues, whoever can do it in an interesting manner will probably get the headline. i believe trump, he's not going to be on the attack. he needs to stick to the rules, not look like a bully and show people where he stands on some issues that make sense. >> just to justify the media attention, i just looked at our poll, 2% of the american people don't have a fixed opinion about this guy. so the american people have a lot of investment in thinking about donald trump, for whatever reason. he's far more interesting to most people than the other candidates. >> the debate's a level playing field. he only gets 1/10 of the time and you need to cover it that way. >> how do you approach it? >> depending if you're swinging up or down. >> who's swinging down on donald

trump? >> even though the poll numbers suggest he has a commanding lead, it's ten points. and jeb bush had that just a little while ago. i'd say jeb bush is punching across or down a little bit. >> should he punch? >> i think there's a moment, he could have a sister soldier moment. a lot of republicans are scratching their heads wondering what this trump thing is all about. he says outrageous things, gets a lot of attention and shoots to the top of the polls. somebody has to take this guy out. >> so if he says my wife is mexican, she's an american now, she's the mother of my children. how dare you call these people rapists? >> that's exactly what he should do. i hope for his sake that he does, because this campaign is calling for someone to do that. donald trump says outrageous things, and nobody in the republican party has the courage to call him out publicly. and you associate yourself -- >> you're putting your chin out when you do something like that. >> some people have. lindsey graham has been tough on him, but he doesn't get much coverage.

>> and so has rick perry. >> trump says the reason he's not in the top ten is because he took on trump. >> he went from two to zero. >> i don't believe anybody should take on trump in the debate. the first debate is the first act in a multi-act play and every one of these guys needs to get better known, educate the people about who they are, what they've done, what they're for. if somebody picks on them, sometimes a counterpunch is a good move, but i think you're likely to see a boring, mostly positive debate. and if donald gets off the reservation and butts in on people and goes over the time limit, he'll suffer. i don't think he'll do it. >> what i'm reading, the anchors over there, the questioners may get -- will be trying to serve up balls to the candidates, so they'll go after the other candidates. ask them a question about each other, something that forces a fight. >> that's exactly what they'll do. they're all about ratings just like everybody else is. donald trump is trying to

rewrite the rules of the debate. he's saying, now that i'm in the lead, i don't want to upset the apple cart. so i'm not going to punch, i'll wait for them to punch me. maybe one of the guys who's not well known or much noticed should do it, because they're swinging up. marco rubio is at 3% in the polls, maybe he should say something about the racist remarks donald trump has made about mexicans. maybe somebody else will. but there's a moment in the debate for anybody to stand up and own the stage. donald trump has owned the entire thing for -- >> it's not unusual for steve to stir up trouble in the other party. but i don't -- the first thing you coach candidates about in a debate, if the moderator tries to get you into a fight, you don't take the bait. >> somebody needs to punch the bully in the nose. and it's going to be interesting -- >> place your bets, will trump be the winner? >> i don't think there will be a clear winner.

i think what matters, who gets the news bite coming out. by the way, the early debate could produce the news bite. you've got some real stars there in carly fiorina and lindsey graham. >> i think they'll come with their prepared material. they'll be obvious, awkward. you know what they memorized. where's the beef or some line, don't use my youth, kind of thing. and trump will see that coming and everybody will watch trump's face as they watch this guy put his fist out, and it will be his chance to flatten the guy. and then there will be another rebuttal and trump will have outlasted. once the fight starts, trump's not going to let it end. he's going to enjoy it. >> he's authentic. i think he's crazy, but he's authentic, he's real, and he says things that nobody else on the stage will say. he's not a politician, and that's why he'll win unless somebody else disrupts the -- >> he can say, i got no problem with your wife, she came in legally.

>> he's popular, but he will not be the nominee. >> are you sure? rudy thinks he's a contender. what do you think? we just had rudy on. >> i heard that, but if i lived in new york and went to dinner with trump every once in a while, i'd say that too. >> until somebody changes the trajectory, donald trump is the front-runner and will be until somebody takes it away from him. up next, president obama invokes john f. kennedy has he sells the country's diplomatic approach to iran. this is pretty historic today. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

let's not mince words. the choice we face is ultimately between diplomacy or some form of war. maybe not tomorrow, maybe not three months from now. but soon. welcome back to "hardball." president obama offered that stark warning about the iran nuclear deal during a speech at

american university here in washington today. right across the street from mere. the president said if congress kills the deal, they're paving iran's path to the bomb. on june 10th, 1963, john f. kennedy delivered a speech from the same campus, urging a test ban treaty with the then soviet union and a broader commitment to peace between the two countries. >> i realize the pursuit of peace is not as dramatic as the pursuit of war and frequently the words of the pursuers fall on deaf ears, but we have no more urgent task. our problems are man-made. therefore, they can be solved by man. and man can be as big as he wants. no problem of human destiny is beyond human beings. >> well, president kennedy warned that day that too many of us think peace is impossible and war is inevitable. 52 years later, president obama

said we should not repeat the mistakes made in the run-up to the iraq war. >> i know it's easy to play on people's fears, to magnify threats, to compare any attempt at diplomacy to munich. none of these arguments hold up. they didn't back in 2002 and 2003. they shouldn't now. >> the same mind-set, in many cases, offered by the same people, who seem to have no compunction with being repeatedly wrong, led to a war that did more to strengthen iran, more to isolate the united states, than anything we have done in the decades before or since. well, senator mitch mcconnell announced today the senate will begin debating the iran nuclear deal on september 8. barbara boxer of california has publicly endorsed the agreement and joins me now.

it's an honor to have you on, because you were right about the iraq war, you were all alone and said it was a stupid war. now the president is calling out the same advocates for that war, advocating destruction of this treaty. your thoughts? >> well, i think the president and president kennedy, both presidents, kennedy was a truth-teller. barack obama is a truth-teller. this is very, very similar, because it's a vote of conscience and the alternatives are very, very clear. and i remember those painful days of the iraq war, and believe me, i didn't sleep much in those years, because i was trying so hard to stop it. and it just went on and on for so long. and we see the results of it here at home. so we have an opportunity here to take the path that offers hope. you know, i came out with my statement after i met with our allies, the ambassadors were here and they were called

together by senator dick durban who is a great leader on this. they spoke to us and let me tell you what they said very, very clearly. if we reject this agreement, we are playing right into the hands of the hardliners in iran. and it will lead to a collapse of the sanctions and for sure iran building a bomb, and then the option is what? it's war. and the people have had too much of that. let us go down this path and we always have that option, chris. we always have that option. we know iran is a terrible actor on the world stage. that's why we need this agreement. >> i guess my question is, watching you up there debating it and deliberate, the people who oppose this deal, they say if you bring it down, if the veto is overridden in both houses, then there will be some new deal out there. i keep asking, who will strike that new deal? do they have confidence? these people on the right, that the president will strike a

tougher deal, it doesn't seem like there's a better direction. do they really believe they can get a better deal from obama in the next year and a half? >> no, they don't. they know they can't get a better deal, period. because they know that the whole world pretty much is behind this deal. and we know that israel is concerned, and believe me, as someone who stands very tall, even though i'm only five feet, as the longest serving united states senator who is a jewish american, and the longest serving congress member, along with sandy levin, i'm saying to you, and he has said as well, this is the way to go. and i want to say this, as i look at the discussion in israel. we certainly know where prime minister is on this, and we know where most of the politicians are, but we're seeing now more of a chorus of the security people there, for example, the former head of the israeli fbi said, the agreement is the best

possible alternative from the israeli point of view. and we're seeing more and more of these security people come out in israel. so i think the longer this sits out there, i think the more momentum we'll get. today we got independent angus king come out in favor of this, which is huge, because he's an extremely thoughtful member. and i think the momentum is picking up. >> it is so great to have you on this show. i think you're always right. anyway, senator barbara boxer. >> thank you, chris. >> we're going to miss you in this business. thanks so much for all your service. in a speech today, president obama urged americans to get involved in this debate. >> my fellow americans, contact your representatives in congress, remind them of who we are. remind them of what is best in us and what we stand for. so we can leave behind a world that is more secure and more peaceful for our children. i'm joined now by susan page, washington bureau chief for "usa today." it comes down to numbers.

the fact is, he's got 34 senators on his side to sustain a veto, or 146 house members. >> i think that's a bar he can get over. >> either or? >> yes. it seems to me that it's likely congress passes the resolution of disapproval, he'll veto it. and we're starting to see the numbers come in. there are some democrats that are undecided or going the other direction. it will be likely that he'll be able to sustain -- >> can he do it in the senate as well as the house? >> i don't know. but you've had a series of some senators like barbara boxer -- >> and bill nelson. >> and angus king come out and say they're going to support it. you haven't heard from ben cardin. that will be an important one. >> i'm thinking if casey goes, that will be key. kuhns may well go, but i'm watching the ones you got to watch.

>> they're not just moderate. they're thoughtful on this issue. >> the pressure is on these guys from contributors. it's pretty strong. >> and one thing you saw the president try to do today in his speech was, as you've said, increase the number of people who are weighing in on this. so it's not only people who are supporters of israel -- >> 8% of opposed to this thing. but listening to all the chatter, you would think there's a huge amount of democrats against the president on this. 8%. >> the people who feel most strongly about it -- >> and they're willing to spend the money on these ads. thank you, susan page. anyway, up next, jeb bush fumbles and hillary clinton pounces. a look at the new aggressive campaign tactics from the democratic front-runner, hillary clinton. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. mornings.

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attacking women's health issues. you could take dollar for dollar, although i'm not sure we need a half a billion dollars for women's health issues, but if you took dollar for dollar,

there are many extraordinarily fine community health organizations that exist, federally sponsored community health organizations to provide quality fair for women on a wide variety of health issues. but abortion should not be funded by the government. any government in my mind. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was jeb bush, questioning the need to spend half a billion dollars on women's health issues. he clarified later saying broadly i misspoke, there are countless community health centers, rural clinics and other health organizations that need to be fully funded. >> but hillary clinton pounced on jeb bush's gaffe. tweeting, you are absolutely, unequivocally wrong. last night in denver, she dug in some more. >> jeb bush said he's not sure we need half a billion dollars for women's health issues. i'm reading it because i want to quote it exactly.

now, he's got no problem giving billions of dollars away to super wealthy and powerful corporations, but i guess women's health just isn't a priority for him. when you attack planned parenthood, you attack women's health, and when you attack women's health, you attack america's health. [ cheers and applause ] the truth is what jeb said, the other republican candidates believe too. >> hillary's clearly shifted to a tougher stance, don't you think? calling out her rivals by name and labelling them out of touch and out of date whenever she has the chance. let's bring in our roundtable, jason johnson, sabrina siddiqui, howard fineman. howard, she is getting tougher, she's calling out these people. this is no longer ignoring the republicans, she's hitting them. why? >> for several reasons. first of all, she cares about the women's issues. she's running more openly on women's issues this time.

but as you've said, it's easier to get into the flow of a story than to start one yourself. all the attention's on the republicans. she's getting in the mix on that. she's rather talk about jeb bush than bernie sanders who is creeping up on her in iowa and new hampshire. she's rather pick a fight on the republican side than be drawn into mentioning her actual rival at this point. >> is that true? she doesn't want to talk about bernie who is on her tail, within the margin of error. can she keep knocking jeb? >> i think at some point, you'll see her taking more digs at bernie sanders and other democratic rivals. right now, she's still struggling with progressives who view her skeptically. but this is something that the obama campaign that worked really well for them in 2012. they didn't want it to be a referendum on obama. that's what republicans wanted. they joined it into a substantive policy debate. and keeping intact the key voters, that's what she's doing.

>> why would a guy say -- a guy -- say that we should spend less money on women's health? when everybody knows women's health eye read the other day that men set the room temperature, because that i wearing suits. she's wearing lighter clothes and the fact is, we would like the temperature to be a lot lower. and women say, i'm cold in here. of course you're cold. but men get to set the thermometer. and certainly on health care, the money is going to men's things. >> exactly. this is why jeb's out of practice. that's why he keeps saying these sorts of things. and hillary clinton, you can't avoid attacking somebody if they keep fumbling on the 1 yard line. i'm going to run it in. i think jeb has gaffed and allowed hillary clinton to practice being witty and engaging and attacking because he keeps giving her the opportunity. >> last week, hillary took jeb to task over minimum wage, health care, and voting rights. let's watch. >> i don't think you can say everybody has a right to rise

and then say, you're for phasing out medicare or repealing obamacare. people can't rise if they can't afford health care. they can't rise if the minimum wage is too low to live on. they can't rise if their governor makes it harder for them to get a college education. and you cannot seriously talk about the right to rise and support laws that deny the right to vote. >> start with sabrina. has this campaign starting to -- does she think jeb bush is going to be the nominee? i'm in doubt on that subject. you go back to basically a bush, this revolutionary attitude in the republican party, everybody yelling and screaming, you go back to the same old bushes. >> she's gone most aggressively after jeb bush, so it seems the campaign believes he's the likely nominee. >> is she afraid to do the other

guy? >> i think she's afraid. >> to go after trump? >> trump would love this slam her. >> he would eviscerate here. >> he's got nothing to lose. >> exactly. in the urban league, she knew that jeb was following her, and she wanted him to be like the first new follower, like a prince guitar solo. >> like a what? >> like a prince guitar solo. >> oh, prince. the guy formerly known as prince. >> anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. the dos and don'ts of debates. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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there is no good reason to ever use frozen dough. ♪ as trump towers in the polls, new results from nbc news and survey monkey show the front-runner has found his areas of strong support. he over-performs among men and among voters whose education level is a high school diploma or less. he underperforms among women and college graduates. no surprise there. we'll be right back after this.

we're back with the roundtable. tomorrow's the first in a series of 15 scheduled debates this primary season. nine for the republican candidates, six for the democrats. it's high-stakes television. so we wanted to look at some dos

and don't of debates. rule number one, one liners do work, whether you're canned or not, a witty remark and often the only thing the audience remembers after the dust settles. in 1984, walter mondale was frustrated by what he said were insubstantial policy proposals by his primary rival gary hart. to make his point, he quoted this famous question from a wendy's hamburger commercial. >> when i hear your new ideas, i'm reminded of that ad, where's the beef? [ laughter ] >> bob beckel, his guy had to teach him that one. later that same year, when president reagan faced questions about his age, he famously turned the table with this one-liner. >> i want you to know that also, i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. [ laughter ]

>> rule number two, debate stunts are high-risk, high reward. one in particular worked for ronald reagan in 1980. after he put up the money for a one-on-one debate with george bush, reagan tried to re"new york times" -- tried to include four other candidates. >> will the countdown man please turn mr. reagan's mike off for the moment? >> is this on? >> would you turn that microphone off, please? >> i am paying for this microphone! >> but in 2000, al gore made a goofy attempt to intimidate his opponent, by walking right up to bush as he was speaking. it proved to be an awkward moment. >> i can get something positive done on behalf of the people. that's what the question in this campaign is about. it's not only what's your philosophy and what's your

position on issues, but can you get things done? and i believe i can. >> well, let's go with those first two. howard, what do you think of that? >> i've got to comment on the last thing. >> stunts. >> there's an occasion where there's no speaking. that's rare. it was just the double-take and the how you doing, weirdo, get back in the corner. >> horse's ass. >> that one debate, and that shows how much theatrics are involved here if you're gonna use a line, make sure it doesn't sound so canned. it's better if it comes in a reaction. if you make it sound like a piece of your youtube advertising video, people are going to smell the phoniness. >> somebody walks in, hot to trot, and donald trump, a master, he goes, nice work, what night did you come up with that one? you must be very proud and just nail the guy.

>> here's the thing. you land your punch in 2000, al

case in point, the then vice president george bush in 1984 who appeared to be lecturing geraldine ferraro about the middle east. let's watch. >> let me help with you the difference between iran and the embassy in lebanon. iran, we were held by a foreign government. in lebanon you had a wanton terrorist action where the government opposed it. >> let me say first of all that i almost resent, vice president bush, your attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy. >> a more recent example was barack obama when he said this of hillary clinton. >> he's very likable. i agree with that. i don't know i'm that bad. >> you're likable enough, hillary. >> that's what happens when barack obama is flying too high. a little bit condescending and it hurt. that was right before she beat him in new hampshire. >> both of these were with women candidates. and there won't be a woman on

the stage. >> in the happy hour tomorrow there will be a woman. >> it can apply to men. you played that clip, it played into the narrative that he is an out of touch so you have to be very cautious. >> you had a sense that he had in his pocket. rule number four is that gaffes are amplified. your mistakes make your opponents look good in comparison. in 1992 then president bush stumbled through how the deficit had affected his family personally. it made him look out of touch and played into clinton's hands. >> obviously, it has a lot to do with interest rates. >> she's saying you personally. >> on a personal basis, how has it affected you? >> maybe i will get it wrong. are you suggesting if somebody has means, that the national debt doesn't affect them? i'm not sure i get it. help me with the question and i'll try to answer it.

>> i was grilling her like an economics professor. are you sure you didn't mean to say depression or recession? you didn't mean to say deficit. >> then clinton comes in like the clean-up. i understand you completely. you're wonderful. it was brilliant. >> and it made bush look cold and distant. it made him look judgmental. >> exactly. you have to stay away from those gaffes. and you can't back off things either. if you make a mistake, you own it. you don't want to be like tim pawlenty. >> and finally, attack media. it has become an easy way. was newt gingrich response in 2012, about newt's ex-wife. >> she said you asked her, sir, to enter into an open marriage. would you like to take some time to respond to that? >> no. but i will. i think the destructive,

vicious, negative nature of much of the news media makes it harder to govern this country, harder to attract decent people to run for public office, and i am appalled that you would be in a presidential debate on a topic like that. >> whoa! >> that gave newt a short term lift with the core of the conservative base of the republican party in the south. but the only group of people that the public likes less than the media are politicians. and so he acted like the outraged politician for most of america, they looked at that and said, hey, buddy. you're in politics. you know what the game is. don't claim innocence at this point. >> good defense for our team with that. >> thank you. >> howard fineman for the defense. we'll be right back after this.

in finishing, i would like to say something about tomorrow night's republican debate. we're picking a president here. this isn't just reality tv. it is that, of course, but it is also about finding a person to lead this country we care so much about. it is about finding someone with the courage, the vision, the leadership ability to drive us forcefully through this early 21st century. they'll lead us in dealing with the challenges of our time. that's "hardball" for now. i'll be in cleveland tomorrow night for a special edition at 7:00 eastern and then at 11:00 eastern. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now.

>> good evening from cleveland. site of the first republican presidential debate of the 2016 campaign taking place tomorrow night. i'm steve kornacki in for chris hayes. these are the ten candidates invited into the prime time debate tomorrow night. under the rules set forth by fox news. the candidate with the highest poll number, donald trump right now, will be center stage tomorrow night with the other candidates positioned around him based on their standing in the polls. these seven candidates polled outside the top ten in the average of the national polls chosen by fox. because of that, they missed the cut. they will not be allowed the take cut in the main debate. instead, they are being relegated to an earlier debate at 5:00 p.m. tomorrow. a debate expected to attract far fewer eyeballs than that prime time showdown. and donald trump yesterday