this weekend bernie sanders is going to be in portland, oregon. the campaign announced they have had to move the event. from a 13,000-seat coliseum to a larger venue to one that seats 20,000 people because they think they are going to need it. sunday, portland, oregon, bernie sanders. setting the bar higher and higher and higher.

not run as a third party candidate. let's watch. >> raise your hand if you won't make that pledge tonight. mr. trump. >> to be clear -- >> i fully understand. >> the place where it will give the nominee the nod. >> i fully understand. >> and that experts say an independent run would certainly hand the race over to democrats and likely another clinton. you can't say tonight that you can make that pledge.

>> i cannot say. i have to respect the person if it's not me the person that wins. if i do win, and i'm leading by quite a bit, that's what i want to do. i can totally make that pledge it i'm the nominee. i will pledge i will not run as an independent. i am discussing it with everybody, but i'm talking about a lot of leverage. we want to win. we will win. but i want to win as the republican. >> seconds later rand paul went after trump. >> he buys and sells politicians of all stripes. he's already hedging his bet on the clintons. if he doesn't run as a republican, maybe he supports clinton or maybe runs as an independent. i'd say he's already hedging his bets because he's used to buying politicians. >> just to be clear, we're going to move on. you're not going to make the pledge.

>> i will not make the pledge at this time. >> the trump show is only get. ing started there. he went after megyn kelly on the issue of women's issues. >> you have called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. >> only rosy o'donnell. >> it was well beyond o'donnell. your twitter account has comments about women's looks. you once told a contestant it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. does that sound to you like at temperament of the man who is running our country. >> i think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. and i don't frankly have time for total political correctness. what i say is what i say.

and honestly, if you don't like it, i'm sorry. i've been very nice to you, although i could probably not be based on the way you have treated me, but i wouldn't do that. >> the rnc chair, chuck todd is the moderator of "meet the press." he joins us from new york tonight. and steve kornacki is with us. this is a tough call tonight. it's still hot. did donald trump make two big mistakes tonight? this is the way i think regular republicans, people who grew up republican will hear it. i'm not a reliable republican i'm not really part of the political party, not. loyal to it. number two, it isn't a matter of political correctness to make fun of women's looks. he wasn't making a political can

statement. he was just being borish and he defended it as part of his independence. did he cross those two lines tonight? >> i think it's possible and i think the second point and that exchange with megyn kelly, an important piece of information is going to be how often does fox replay that moment over the next few days? how often do viewers see that over and over and over again. the more it's played, the more damaging it could do when you consider the importance of the fox viewer. i think that is possible. on the first question, i think a lot of republicans, that's going to bother him. trump has to have a better answer than that. the idea of leverage and all that, i think that is -- i think that could be who want a republican to win. they don't want hillary clinton to win.

it doesn't take much to put that math together to make voters see that. >> those exchanges were ended with threats. e he said if i don't get treated right, i'm going to run against this party i'm claiming to be part of. then if you listen closely throwing in rosy o'donnell and say figure you keep this up, i'm going to get nasty. >> you have to say can you keep being a bully. >> this is the temperament question that a lot of people have about donald trump when it comes to being president. whether or not the president in donald trump would come out tonight. i don't think it did here. in that moment, it showed what people like about him, but that's not the stage of that. we want to e see whether you can handle that kind of pressure in a way that makes people say, yeah, you're going to fight for me but you're not going to go

outside the line. >> people grew up republican. members of the party take it seriously. what do they think of a guy that says it's in my interest. >> it's going to be concerning for a lot of grass roots activists out there. how far down the road do i go with this before he decides to pull the plug. >> they remember ross perot and what happened in 1992. and that was determinative factor in that election. >> put clinton in the white house. >> by the time he bailed out, it was too late. >> as a republican, i'm talking about people who are party chairs, county chairs, people that go to the meetings and part of the party structure. they say he's not on our team. >> you have a lot of voters that look at the leaders and say they are not on my team. you look at the numbers with ted cruz, ben carson, 40% of the republican party are in an open rebellion against the

establishment. it's an open question whether those trump supporters are going to be bothered by that. >> will they follow him? >> i don't know. i do know this. if they follow him and he runs as a third party candidate this will be a a big question. >> let's hear from steve kornacki. about those two points, women don't like have people talk about their looks as if he gets to decide who is in and out. rand paul went after trump for his support for single parents. they are going back into his history. here's some of them. >> as far as single payer, it works in canada, it could have worked in a different age, which is the age you're talking about

here. what i'd like to see is a private system without the artificial lines around every state. get rid of the lines. we have to take care of the people that can't take care of the themselves. >> hold on. >> news flash, the republican party has been fighting against a single payer system for a decade. i think you're on the wrong side of this if you're still arguing for single payer. >> i don't think you heard me. you're having a hard time tonight. >> let me. go to stooe kornacki. this is an file on somebody and get a strong statement. you were with him sometimes. he said that must take a look at something else and show a contradiction. is this going to matter to the trump bytes, i wish he hadn't been for single payer a a few

years ago. i wish he wasn't saying he was pro choice a few years ago. u but he clearly wasn't. is that going to bother them? >> i think it depends on the issue. when you look at abortion, it's fairly mitt romney was able to change his position on abortion and bring the base around on that. it depends on how this gets interpreted. the conservative media, the media outlets that republican voters read, listen to, watch, they take their cues from. is the point of emp siz over the next few days that donald trump said nice things about single payer health care. that he refused to rule out the third party campaign. is that the emphasis of the coverage or more donald trump said something funny about rosy o'donnell. it's a a wild card right now. i'm curious how conservative

media spins this in the next few days. >> my question is he's a big city guy. he's rich. why would anybody really believe he's pro life? all of a sudden it sounds pretty convenient he's pro life. >> i don't think it particularly matter when is it comes to donald trump. let's look at talk radio. these folks are not interested in advancing conservative policies to govern the country. it's defined by the obnoxiousness of the tone. so his conservatism is validated not by his abortion position, not by his view on single payer, but on the tone ta he brings to the campaign every day. >> trash obama, trash hillary clinton and you're a conservative. >> that's so smart. i just don't know on his defense

of bankruptcy, he was asked by chris wallace about four of his companies going bankrupt and then pulling out of atlantic city and all the people that were laid off. he said i took advantage of the laws. everyone else does. that's the way we operate. i'm not so sure in this era of real anger at income disparity growing income disparity whether taking advantage of the bankruptcy law and laying off all those people, does that sell? >> i think the point here completely transparent, completely honest. all these people are gaming the system but they lie to you about it. i'm going to fight for you because i know how the system works. i do think the other thing we're going to find out with regard to megyn kelly is this. how thick is the trump teflon with these women issues. every other candidate on that stage had they done what had he

did, lights out, end of their political career. we're going to see what happens with that. i have no idea. >> let's go to chuck on this. there was a battle about the toughest upbringing and it reminded me of kennedy. one guy is the son of a milkman, a postman, the other was an alcoholic. donald trump is saying, yeah, four bankruptcies, one was called trump entertainment resorts. he's so big and so outrageous he doesn't pretend he was born poor. what do they want in the republican party? >> i think when you think about the iowa caucus goer and you think about the rank and file blue collar working class

primary voter, they want to connect to a personal story. i think the kasich personal story or rubio personal story is more of the patriotic that i think that voters want to gravitate too. there's a strain that is fiep with trump. he's being political incorrect and he's the guy that ek woes what people scream at their tvs. but we don't know what the size of that electorate is in iowa and new hampshire. i go back to the same point i was making and kornacki put it in good terms. how will conservative media deal with this over the next 72 hours? is it a big pylon on all the things he said.

i'll be curious to see how donald trump handles the questions. if you're donald trump, you're saying to yourself, has a sights set on me to take me down. the first two questions are the two questions we're talking the most about right now, chris. >> is that murdoch or ails? >> i don't know either men very well personally. >> much more ahead from tonight's epic first republican debate. who came out on top? who threw the best punches? what will we be talking about tonight? and the kapd that helped himself the most, i'll tell you about that. this is "hardball," live coverage of the first republican debate live from cleveland.

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everybody is up tonight in cleveland. we're back with our panel. we are more highlights from the debate. let's take a look. one big fireworks came from chris christie and rand paul. we knew this was going to happen. let's watch these two guys go at it on deep ideological differences on security and libertarianism. >> i want to collect more records from terrorists. >> i want to collect more records from terrorists, but less records from other people. how are you supposed to know? >> get a warrant. >> make your point. >> senator, when you're sitting

in a subcommittee blowing hot air about this, you can say things like that. when you're responsible for protecting the lives of the american people, then what you need to do is to make sure that you use the system the way it's supposed to work. >> you misunderstand the bill of rights. every time you did a case, you got a warrant from a judge. i'm talking about searches without warrants of all american's records and that's what i fought to end. i don't trust president obama with our records. you gave him a big hug. if you want to give him a big hug, go right ahead. >> the debate goes on in every household. it's a real one. how much information does the government have to collect and at what point do they take away people's rights. unfortunately, both guys threw a little crap at each other. one said it's hot air and all you do is talk. the other is hugging obama.

>> you're going to see it play out over and over again. right now it's a little bit of a draw but in the end the guys are talking about the constitution. that's tea party. >> i think after the beheadings of isis that this country has gotten far more hawk ir. ish. >> but does that translate because you're the government? >> who is going to win this one? security or freedom? >> i think given the chaos in the world, i think security. there's a constituency on the civil liberties issue, but it's el itting about that exchange is we saw some of rand paul's peevishness first directed at savannah guthrie the day after

his announcement. i don't think he did well in this debate. >> calling the other guy an obama hugger. >> you can have a fight or two, but he fought with too many people tonight. >> what was interesting about that i think from christie's perspective, he needed a target and he targeted rand paul. >> that's the giuliani number. >> chris christie has not had the forum to remind people that he was a prosecutor on september 11th. he was locking up terrorists. >> marco rubio, a young guy who made a plus out of his youth. it's great to watch a politician take advantage of who he is. he cast himself as the guy of the future that's going to be ready for the big economic change. he's selling a millennial view of things.

>> this country is facing an economy that's been transformed. the largest retailer in the country in the world today is amazon, it doesn't own a single store. they have changed people's lives. the jobs that sustained our middle class either don't pay enough or they are gone. we need someone that understands that as our nominee. >> was he talking to the parents? >> that was the marco rubio we saw when he announced the candidacy and everybody swooned. all night long, he seemed the most. confidentable. ted cruz looked comfortable in moments. cruz really wasn't helped by the fact he didn't get as much air time. that's the rubio to quote the term, he's a good athlete and it showed.

his skills and came out tonight very strong. he needed -- it's funny. he needed this night to remind people that, yes, he should still be a front runner. he was falling in the polls a bit. i think he got it. >> he stopped. >> he's a good debater in that he kept his whole spiel down. he didn't go over. if you were coaching him? >> i think the rubio campaign tonight has got to look at this and say that was a flawless performance. did a fantastic job. when we nominate in a year's time the next republican nominee, it could be marco rubio standing on that stage. that was a phenomenal performance.

>> put him next to hillary clinton, he has a zest. without looking for an enemy. cruz looks for enemies. >> he brings that the to table and makes himself relevant to the conversation on not just the stuff that the senate and all that, but the important stuff of national security, the economy. he was consistent throughout the night in expressing how he sees the america of tomorrow and how he sees millennials playing a role in that. >> chuck, if you're thinking about hillary clinton, who is still the front runner in all the polls, if she has the role played in the gender issue, i think he loses from beginning to end. you can't be a bully. you can't be physically talking

about looks and all that sort of thing. it's gross. and yet if hillary clinton had to face marco rubio, how do i handle that guy? >> and you talk to democrats and they are concerned about because rubio presents that generation contrast. look particularly in the television era, look at the last 50 years. more times than not, the younger candidate, the next generation when presented has won that race. a few exceptions. reagan was an exception. but the new generation takes over. obama is not really a baby boomer. he's technically there, but he wasn't eligible. are we going to go backwards in generations or forward to genx. that's rubio. we usually want to move forward. that's what makes him a dangerous opponent for hillary clinton.

>> i think you're right. i think we're on to something tonight. i think the debate did something. they display a lot on the same stage the same night when erbe is paying attention. it's going to be profound how people come out of this tonight. >> the cream always rises. you saw that with rubio. >> i think john kasich did fantastic. >> i'm a kasich/rubio guy tonight. hillary clinton is thinking who do i least want to take on? how do i prepare for the one who will be coming at me. up next, reaction from the paul and cruz campaigns. hillary clinton's camp responds tonight to the republican attacks against the democratic front runner, her. this is "hardball," the place for politics from cleveland

tonight of the first republican debate.

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welcome back to "hardball." we're still in cleveland with a big crowd coming back from the hall. an adviser u to ted cruz is joining us. and george pataki debated today

in the earlier forum and asked about being the only pro choice republican candidate up there on that stage. here was the governor's response late this afternoon. >> i'm a catholic. i believe life begins at conception. but row v. wade has been the law for 42 years and i u don't think we should try to change it. >> do you think that's your position. do you think the republican party wants to go back to that fight? >> no, i also don't think the american people have it high on their list of issues as to what's happening in this country. we have to deal with radical islam and get the economy going. it's an issue that matters, but when the motor voters are going to look they are going to look at other issues. >> rand paul got into the great american debate tonight, which is freedom versus security,

which is how much information should the government get from people before it starts interfering with their privacy. and how much can you avoid if you want to protect this country. i thought it got a little sloppy in that debate. one said you hugged obama and you used hot air. >> your guy is right? >> governor christie, you're cruz, i'm paul. >> the best candidate in the race to bring americans together. chris christie said i'm the only one that's prosecuted folks. if i would have been up there, i could have said i'm the only one of you guys that has ever had his phone tabbed, people looking at your records and you talk to the authorities and they say you can go tell the press, we have never had interest in you. if that's the case, i go tell them that, they call you and they say with can neither confirm nor deny.

i have a different world view on gathering all these records for the sake of getting one person and you've got four of us here, we're not even close to the number that you're really after. so i think that's a fair debate for us to have. >> how did cruz do? >> i think he was definitely among the top. >> you think he was the best? better than kasich? >> i thought he was a reassuring presence on the stage. he wasn't as engaging in a schoolyard brawl and that he was knowledgeable about the issues. i think he came across as a statesman. i think he did very well. >> i think it was a horrible format. i don't say that because i don't think my guy got the kind of questions that i was hoping he would have gotten. talking about outreach and grow. ing the party and what he's done. >> there was nothing on civil rights tonight.

>> nothing and as republicans we ignore those type of things. we have a national audience. >> nothing on obamacare. >> how can people sit around there tonight, smart people like the moderators, and decide we're not going to talk about all these police cases. they are all different, but there's a pattern there. we're going to look at that concern. they didn't bring it up. >> that's right. it never crossed their lips. and i thought in spite of that, i thought it was a horrible format for ten candidates. >> how are you going to make it better? >> the voters are going to start eliminating. i don't think you're going to be able to make it better. >> what did you think? i think we learned a lot. >> it was particularly bad for the folks in the earlier race. we talked about this before. we have 17 candidates and a democrat who doesn't know the difference.

>> that didn't come up tonight. >> look at what they have on their side. i think it's something the republican party can be proud of. >> let me run it by you guys. all republicans here. does it bother you that the guy getting all the air time, getting all the numbers in the poll said i may run third party. >> can i say something on that? it's been bothering me enormously that all the press wants to talk about is donald trump until tonight because i think the american people got to see that this is someone whose interest is self-centered. will you support the republican normal e knee, yes, if it's me. he doesn't have the temperament to lead the could be try. he doesn't have the solutions that america needs. i don't know who won the race, but i do think donald trump is the big loser and that's a positive for the republican party. >> do you think he fell tonight? >> i do think he hurt himself.

i do think he hurt himself. i'm not pro. >> what hurt him most? >> i think the republican voters want to feel like every one of the 17 candidates are saying regardless of who the nominee is, it's all hands on deck at the end of the day. that didn't happen. politics, it is a tough business. and you put a lot on the line in and people invest a lot in you. at the end of the day, you want a republican. tonight he dised the party. >> cruz has been tough on his leadership of the party going after mitch mcconnell calling him a liar. i think we drop the use of that word in politics. your boss called mitch mcconnell a liar.

is he going to be upset about this and go to meetings and say if i get nominated. >> i'm backing the nominee of our party. >> he certainly said that. trump did say that. i u don't think trump gave the best performance tonight, but trump is the receptacle of the party frustration. they are angry because we gave them the tea party gave them the house. they said that's not enough. people ran on obamacare. then they funded it. people said they were pro life and gave us a show boat on the funding of planned parenthood. the party is sick of it. trump gave them a vehicle to show all the candidates we are angry.

and i think ted cruz is the only person who stood up against obamacare u. >> will that work? >> what i do think will work is reaching across party lines. what you're saying is exactly right. it doesn't change. it doesn't matter. e we had 17 candidates pretty much saying largely the same thing. but no one said how they are going to get it done. unless by some miracle the republicans have the presidency and two-thirds in the house. >> they still have to tell the truth about what's going on. >> they say one thing. they do another behind closed doors. they u can't get it done. that's one of the reasons i'm running is because i was able to change government in a blue state with a 2-1 democratic house. none of the others have that experience. we have to talk more and outrage

to minorities and others as rand paul is doing as i did in new york. but the other thing is how you're going to get these changes through. the other is to get democrats to work with you. i can do it in washington. >> you didn't hear much of that tonight. primary campaigns are about playing to the base. we all know that. >> but republicans didn't talk about it no more than democrats are going to talk about it. let's be fair. >> i made that point. >> one thing too, donald trump, he's magic in showing the teeth. you never saw his teeth. >> going after rosy o'donnell wasn't a winning move. thank you all. three-time governor of new york. we'll respect you for experience.

lots of attacks on hillary clinton. we'll get. the reaction from the clinton campaign to those attacks when we come back. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics live from cleveland from the first republican debate here tonight.

welcome back to our coverage of the first republican debate. there's been a lot of information. it was a hot time in cleveland. none of the candidates held back from engaging each other directly. nor did they hold back from attacking the likely democratic nominee hillary clinton. senator marco rubio made a generational contrast. this is what politics should be about. getting your strengths, where you're coming from. here he is. >> this election cannot be a

resume competition. it's important to be qualified. but hillary clinton is going to be the next president if it's on resume because she's been in government. longer than anybody running tonight. >> that lays it down. walker slammed hillary clinton for using a personal server while she served as secretary of state. >> the cyber attack with russia the other day it's sad to think right now, but probably the russian and chinese government know more than do the members of the united states congress. >> the former governor mike huckabee closed his comments tonight with this. >> it seems like this election has been a whole lot about a person who is very high in the polls but doesn't have a clue

about how to govern. a person who has been filled with scandals and who could not lead. of course, i'm talking about hillary clinton. >> there's another one brought in the lunch bucket. you're from ohio. you're a democrat. are you a moderate democrat? >> depends on who you ask. >> what do you call yourself? >> moderate. >> let me ask you about your state. let's have one state election in this country. skip all the billions of dollars from the koch brothers, just have ohio vote. it's like you guys do it. these people are going to decide the next president.

>> who is going to make their life easier and reduce the anxiety of daily life here in ohio. >> what did you hear tonight? >> a the lo of rhetoric and pandering to the billionaires. a lot of talk about dodd-frank. i think the losers tonight were women. you hear what scott walker's response was to the abortion question. you hear rubio's response. women are the real losers. ohio is a moderate state. >> didn't you switch on abortion? >> i did. >> why are you trashing these guys? >> it was longer than that. >> how long ago were you pro life? >> a year ago. >> so a year ago were what you are attacking these guys for being. why would you do that? >> here's my experience. i had a baby. i got married. i had a baby. my life u started to be viewed through a different prism.

>> you became pro choice. >> it was not as extreme. a mother should die according to scott walker. >> that's what i'm saying. even if you are pro life and moderate, that's an extreme position. in ohio, suburbs of cleveland and cincinnati that may lean republican, those women are not going to vote for a candidate like that. >> i like something you were pushing long before, which is the idea of keeping choice, allowing choice but reducing the number of abortions. >> ask where they are on birth control. >> that's certainly extreme position. >> kathleen, you haven't been up here before. who won tonight? who is going to walk away saying i nailed it? >> i think marco rubio did very well. i think john kasich did very well. he's on the home turf. but the thing i liked about him is he just comes across as so real.

he's not putting on anything. his genuine concern for people comes across without his explanation of the medicare expansion was just moving. and i'd put him at the top. >> i don't care what they say, they watch the opposition. hillary clinton is going to watch the clips. she's got to be thinking can i play as strongly as megyn kelly played it on the looks thing when he's making fun of women's looks. you can't defend that. or am i going to go at the guy or can i take him? can i take a guy 20 years younger than me talking about the future. that's hard to fight. rubio talking about amazon being a company with no stores. brand new idea that people in their 70s can't quite grasp. >> hillary clinton is talking

about that and a heck of a lot more. where are the resources going to come rubio wants to continue with that haven't worked here in ohio. same with john kasich. i have never seen a guy revise history like he did tonight.

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he's taken on the issues that are seen as his liabilities and cheered him on when talked about medicaid expansion. marco rubio really seemed passionate who shares the values of the people here. he really surprised people. heavy a definite winner of this crowd. >> how did the room react to donald trump, especially his refusal to pledge to support the republican nominee?