talking about hillary clinton. >> good morning, and welcome to special edition of "morning while managing to win the white house. the gop is looking to stake its claim early here and last night voters were introduced to 17 candidates all battling for that job. >> divided by public only. the contenders took the stage in two separate debates, taking shots at each other and chief democratic rival. we have a huge show ahead. all breaking down the big moments. plus, live interviews with many of the candidates including donald trump's first interview of the morning. >> and we're also talking to car lee fiorina. we're going to be talking a lot about this throughout the day. if you had to pick one candidate that broke out over everybody

else in both debates, i just don't know if it's a close call. i think it was carly and everybody else. >> i'm not sure i disagree with you. i think i might agree with you on. that i was blown away by her. i didn't agree with a word she said, but i thought she said it really well. >> she said it really well. >> she was precise and controlled. just a step above the rest to an extent. joining the conversation, we have a great group this morning. the managing editor of bloomberg politics john heilemann is here. they applauded when you walked in. >> i walked in with willie. i walked in with willie. >> were you drinking all night here? is that it? >> not here. >> msnbc political analyst, former chairman of the national committee, michael steele is here. al hunt and at the site of last night's debates, kacie hunt joins us as well.

should we get right to it? i want your take away. >> a lot going on. this is one of the first debates in all the years i've been following debates where the key players were the moderateors. everybody was talking about the moderators "the washington post" this morning they wrote the questions were directed much more -- they were much tougher towards donald trump. you agree with "the washington post's" assess. . you said, before ann, that every question that donald trump got were heat seeking missiles then they would have somebody in the garden somewhere. and now the next question to marco rubio, donald trump, do you beat your wife when you're drunk? and now the next question to marco rubio, hi have you ever been an entrepreneur? you've seen a lot of these debates. there was no doubt these moderateors were treating trump to a different standard than

everybody else. >> they were. there was an imbalance. i thought the dwoez trump were fair and tough. i thought the questions to the others were the soft balls that price harper should wish for every day. they weren't for -- i also don't think the debate in the end changed a whole lot other than trump got hurt a little. he showed himself to be a bully again. before that kind of audience he promised to rise above the fray. if that's above the fray i'd hate to see him down and dirty. >> the questions were all legitimate that they asked trump. but if you're going to ask cupcake questions of others, they xndasked rand paul, what you are going to do to protect religious liberty and then you go to trump and talk about bankruptcy or ask the question. when did you become a republican? just an imbalance there. >> i may be in the minority. i thought they did a good job. maybe there were soft balls. but over the course of three hours, i thought they were all good. donald trump i thought in that

department had to take the next step and put a little meat on the bones and talk beneficiary use and flush out his positions. i'm not sure he did. that maybe he held serve. maybe the people who liked him and brought him to top of the polls watched that performance and said yeah that's what we like about him. he's putting it back on the moderateors. i thought he needed more substance. >> a defensive crouch if you take joe's point of view. i wonder about yours. let's let the viewers decide. here's a look at the questions that trump got, especially as they pair -- paralleled to other's questions. >> you don't use a politicians filter. however, that is not without down sides n particular, when it comes to women. you call women you don't like fat pigs dogs slobz, and disgusting animals. your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell. >>, no it wasn't.

your twitter account has several zparnlging comments about women's looks. you once told a contestant on "celebrity apprentice" it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. does that sound like the temperment of a man we should elect president and how will you answer the charge from hillary clinton who is likely to be the democratic nominee that you're wart of part of the war on women? in senator paul, on the ruling of same-sex marriage, carol fox wants to know the following. "what will do you to ensure christians are not prosecuted for speaking out against gay marriage and will christians be forced to conduct business that conflicts with their religious beliefs?" >> mr. trump, i give you 30 seconds. i'll give you 30 seconds to answer my question which was what evidence do you have specific evidence that the mexican government is sending criminal as cross the border. 30 seconds. senator cruz 1400 people submitted questions on this very

hot topic of illegal immigration on facebook. a number of them were about the murder of kate steinly in san francisco, allegedly shot down by an illegal. this question will you support kate steinle's law which imposes a five year prison term fon an illegal deported and then returns to this country. >> obama care is one of the things you call a disaster. complete disaster. saying it needs to be repealed and replaced. >> correct. >> now 15 years ago you called yourself a liberal on hk. you were health care. you were for a canadian style system. why were you for that then and why aren't you for it now? >> governor huckabee on facebook we have this question. will you abolish or take away the powers and cut the size of the epa, the irs, department of education? so the question is, at this

point is the government simply too big for any one person even republican to shrink. >> trump corporations casinos and hotels declared bankruptcy four times over the last quarter century. >> you know then they're going -- another question to trump. that goes on for four or five minutes. questions of trump about bankruptcy. you could ask marco rubio his problem with paying for a ranch house in northwest florida and they didn't do it. i mean you're asking those questions of trump and john heilemann, then they throw softball questions to ted cruz and about sank wary cities. it's fairly laughable. >> there's no doubt that front-runner who commanded most of the media attention and most of the oxygen in the room for last couple months again got more time on stage last night than any other candidate but also got tougher questions. i don't think there is any doubt about that. i don't have that much sympathy

for anybody who is in the front-runner -- if you're in that poll position and in the front, you're going to get tougher questions and more scrutiny. he is a tough guy, says so all the time. be ready to take the questions. on the merits they were fair. i agree with you, it would have been better in the other candidates got similarly tough questions. the questions themselves were fair. >> you can't, though dig up something donald trump said 15 years ago and hammer him on that and say when did you become a republican and then turn around and ask somebody what are you going to do to protect religious lib snert or then the next question is, what are you going to do to stop sanctuary cities? it's laughable. it's like trying to face a bob gibson fastball coming at your head versus placing a ball on the t. >> it's a very strong argument for tougher questions to the other candidates. >> exactly. >> but not foregoing -- >> exactly. >> and michael, that's all i'm

saying. you ask the same type of tough questions to marco rubio, rand paul, everybody else -- >> about finances. >> they would have dissolved. >> i agree with that. b, a couple things, one trump handled it. in large measure he was unphased. he stood in there, he threw his hands up. let me finish the rest of the thought for you. i think trump anticipated that. and you could see from the setup question with megan that yeah okay i know. you're going to come after me. that's fine. but how this plays out for the other cad datesndidates, they should be listening and learning. as they get closer to the center point that, spear is pointed at them as well. >> i don't think there was a personal anemous for donald trump and the republican establishment. a lot of people listening might have said that crowd is a little hostile to donald trump. you go back and look at

bloomberg's focus groups they're not the party elites that got the ticket. >> this is the establishment. >> this is the establishment sitting in that room. >> i think even for some of those people i think that trump got cut last night. it really -- the substance of the questions, people learn some things. people might not have known beforehand he was pro-choice. now he's pro-life. he was for wealth tax, now he's for kugt for cutting all taxes. now he's for ending obama care. what they didn't say is four years ago ronald reagan was a con man. this guy is the caitlyn jenner of american politics. he really is. i think that's coming through. >> all of that could have been accomplished without the headline being that fox went after trump. >> by the way, al hunt if you're trying to get a contract at fox news -- >> you just got it. you just got it. >> by the way, i love the

moderateors. i do. i understand what they were trying to do last night. i think i can get you a job at fox. >> so here's what -- >> first of all, 10 after 6:00. mark on your calendar the first caitlyn jenner reference. >> in a bar in cleveland. >> the last couple days we thought donald moderated himself. he's more measured. he wasn't different last night. he was donald trump. the people who love donald trump, what he did last night regard lzless of what we may say, they still love donald trump. i'll be fascinated to see what his numbers look like in two days from now. >> i think the numbers go down. and i don't think jeb bush did himself any favors either. eric erickson at red state said you couldn't even hear his answers on a lot of the questions through the boos. >> here's what donald trump said about the questions asked last night. >> i thought their questions to me were much tougher than other people. i think megan behaved very

badly, personally. overnight he shared these. >> wow she really bombed to night. people are going wild on twitter. funny to watch. he is a slow class slob looking to come into my office and had zero interest know he picks anti-trump panels. your focus groups are a total joke. zont don't come to my office looking for work again. you're a clown. and i really enjoyed the debate tonight even though megan kelly wasn't very professional. >> he is above the fray. >> by the way, the way they started was amazing. >> i think let's say though that is actually what they did to trump, if they had done to every

candidate there, they would have provided an extraordinary service. so i don't want people to misread us saying they're too tough on donald trump. >> they did a 60 minute ind interview for trump and everybody else got a local news debate. >> i'm a big believe that's right two year process should rip the bones from your back. it needs to be tough. it needs to send people through the grinder. and donald trump was exposed last night. but if you are going to do that to trump, you should do that to everybody. >> and there's lots to work w. >> i like that bruce springsteen reference. i agree. i totally agree. great argument for being tougher with the other candidates. i also agree we should talk about it more. i think it was not a good night at all for jeb bush. >> yeah. we got a lot of other things we want to get to on trump. first, i want to go around. let's talk about who is the winner for the day. i'll start with you, willie. both debates. >> i thought -- i thought two people jumped out. john kasich was really good.

part of that probably was that his -- he was in the hometown arena. he got a lot of cheers. i thought marco rubio, we this our questions about him over the last couple weeks and months. why wasn't he popping? why wasn't he rising in a way that a lot of people expected. i thought he looked smart and measures and calm and presidential. >> mika? >> i think it was a good night for john kasich. a good nice for marco rubio. a good nice for chris christie and a great night for carly fiorina. >> i echo that. i thought kasich and rubio for me did the best to help themselves, move up get focus. and particularly for someone like john kasich that just got in the race to climb on to that stage in that tenth position and to stand out. i think the polls are going to show him moving up rapidly. and overall, both debates, hands down for me was carly. i thought she hit it out of the park. >> i thought john kasich. i agree with. that i think ted cruz helped

himself. 'paeld he appealed to the base. some will peel off donald trump. and i'm going to lose my job at fox news that you just gave me because i think if the questions to rubio, if the questions to jeb bush about immigration had been well framed it would have been a different debate. i wanted tim russert there last night. >> kacie hunt what were your thoughts last night? winners and losers? >> one person we haven't talked top of about is rand paul who i think actually did have a difficult time on this stage both facing down chris christie and then also facing down donald trump. i think you talked a little bit about jeb bush. a little bit of a tough night for him. i thought it got better as the night went on. i think people close to him that was their feeling in the very beginning of the debate. he didn't start out as crisp, necessarily, as they would have liked. but by the time you got to him and donald trump having that exchange which trump called very civil afterwards in the spin room and who a source close to

jeb bush said he was impress how'd gently and nice donald trump was to jeb bush behind the scenes which is kind of interesting. and on the questions, i mean jeb bush got asked about dynasty, iraq war and act of love comments. i'm not sure that while i think to al's point that framing was a little bit different i think bush took front-runner style questions last night as well. >> so ted cruz how do you think ted cruz how do you think rand paul did? i personally thought they kind of disappeared last night. >> yeah. >> that's the place i take issue w i thought it was not a bad night for ted cruz. i don't think he popped in any strong way. i thought rand paul all of the worst things about rand paul were on display. the thin skin -- >> all of it. >> the rolling of the eyes. >> didn't work. >> i thought ben carson had a poor night, too. you could feel the energy on the

stage sag whenever carson spoke. very nice guy. >> i thought he'd never get to me. >> and then winye whiny a little bit. >> chris christie? >> feisty and on mark. >> i thought he was good. >> i liked him. >>en that exchange with rand paul, i thought he clearly won that exchange back and forth with the eye roll and everything else. i thought christie who was marginalized, did he what he could to stand out. >> he bought in. john kasich was asked about his justification for being one of the few republican governors to embrace the medicaid expansion. take a look. >> you should know that president reagan expanded medicaid several time. i had an opportunity to bring resources back to ohio to treat the mentally ill, 10,000 of them sit in our prisons. it costs $22,500 a year to keep them in prison. i'd rather give them medications so they can lead a decent life. you know what? everybody has a right to their

god given purpose. look, i'm an old fashioned person here. i believe in traditional marriage. the court ruled. i said we'll accept it. guess what? i just went to a wedding of a friend of mine who happens to be gay. so if one of my daughters happened to be that of course i would love them. i would accept them because, you know what? that's what we're taught when we have strong faith. >> actually, we need to add one caveat, one after the risk to what we said. the megyn kelly question leading into that was very tough. >> it was. >> basically saying do we have to worry you about using jesus to raise our taxes and raise spending? that was very tough. which actually is one of the things, willie that made kasich's answer to that so impressive. unlike donald trump, kasich got a fastball at his head and he hit it out of the park. that is one of the better moments all night.

>> that was the best answer of the entire night that any candidate made. he took that and if you were following the reaction online from both sides, p empeople that don't agree with any republican good answer. >> rubio had a good answer on debt too. >> two purple state governors, one very memorable, john kasich wlachlt did scott walker do? >> let me ask. how did scott walker do? >> basically an enigma. he was just. there didn't register. >> i thought the true for all the governors, the place where case being stood out, spoke the language of optimism last night. >> yes. >> the most reaganesque in some ways. he was sunny, hopeful and very much himself. that again is really playing to his advantage as he tries to get altitude in this race. >> mika and i like scott walker a lot. we know him. we talked to him from the very beginning on the phone. can't say enough nice things about him as a person. i will just say this whoever is

running his campaign is keeping him tightly scripted. they're keeping him on talking points nonstop. if scott walker wants to be a big player in this race, he has got to get off the talking points and he's got to let loose. like you said, there wasn't a memorable moment last night because his entire campaign has been circa 1980 reaganesque talking points that sound 35 years old. and up against a donald trump or up against a john kasich you know, it's going to sound old, tired and dated. we all heard it before. >> you said he had the most to prove. i guess he didn't prove it? >> he didn't prove it. at the same time, he didn't do anything last night that's going to take him out of the top three. if you look at arrows going up and down side ways i think kasich goes up. trump goes down. and i think scott walker held his own. i guess for a first debate that's not so bad.

>> so donald trump has been bullet prove through gas and things we thought were deal breakers. it will be really interesting to see if this is different. >> so let me just say. as you and i have been saying well everybody else -- even when you said the mccain thing is going to kill him. i said no it wasn't. he's going to keep going up. and now the press is saying well this probably isn't going to hurt him. i think it is. >> i'm not sure. >> i think you're going to see if he's doubling jeb right now, i think you'll see him lose five, six, seven, eight points off this. >> the most interesting thing about this trump phenomenon last night is liberal reporters and commentators thought trump did fine. it's not going to hurt him. conservatives all think this is going to hurt him. like you. they think he's going to go down. >> it's the cluelessness. the very people said it would never be relevant are saying this won't hurt him. >> i don't think it will hurt him. >> i don't think it will hurt him. >> the outtakes do not seem as

cringe worthy and people were not watching with all eyes on it like us. >> a problem for donald trump moving forward is a split with fox news. roger, actually was very good to donald. i don't think -- roger defends his people. and god bless him. we should all have you know have somebody that just pounds people in the face if they cross them. i don't see roger taking it. >> and megyn kelly was front and center as the new face of fox news and now he's in a feud with megyn kelly. >> it's just not good. still ahead on "morning joe," live from cleveland, we've got who's who of the republican candidates for president on tap here at the bar, donald trump will join us for the first interview of the morning. plus we'll talk to carly fiorina, lindsey graham and rick

santorum and a republican pollster on the set. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?

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>> jeb bush will be played by sam the eagle from the muppets. rand paul will once again be played by '90s justin timber lake. >> okay. we're live. we're live at flannery's pub in cleveland, ohio. it is the day after the morning after and a lot of us are still awake. joining us now, "new york times" reporter jeremy peters and the co-founder of the opinion

research firm echelon insights kristen solstace anderson. your name didn't fit in the prompter. it's great to you have here. we have a lot to talk b i want to get to a little montage of carly fiorina but where do you want to start? >> let's get take aways first of all. jeremy peters? >> first of all, we have a question we need to ask because we like the guy. we've never seen him where he's not in complete control. everybody had the same question from the second lindsey graham stepped on the stage and that is what was wrong with lindsey graham last night i heard a couple different things. >> like what? >> just that he was -- it was the first time he was nervous. the setting was really weird and bizarre. there were no people in the audience. i think it threw him off. >> i would not underestimate the power of being at that second debate with have of deflating

someone's confidence. there was no one in that audience addressing an empty arena. they already suffered humiliation of being told that they're basically not good enough, not popular enough to make the final cut. i think that got inside his head. i talked to him the night before. he was pretty upset about being excluded and thought that fox needs to completely redo the criteria. >> hold on. we have a phone call from somebody. let me see who it is on the phone. it is my mother? mom? is that you? >> dad? what do we got? >> good morning, darlings. >> it's the donald. donald trump. >> good morning. >> donald we've been talking about the debate. you were up there. give us your thoughts. >> well i had a great time. i enjoyed it. i think my questions were you know, some what unfair. but it's fine. was okay with it. i really enjoyed it. i really liked -- i was with nine people and i really got to know some of them well. i liked them.

a lot. >> who did you like a lot? >> well, i thought marco was terrific. i supported him in the past. i don't know that i've ever met him. i don't think i met him. very good guy. walker good guy. carson terrific guy. i'ven in him before. i got to know jeb bush really for the first time. he was a terrific guy. really a nice guy. >> do you think that fox -- do you think the fox moderators were fair? >> i don't think so. i don't think fox is fair. maybe i should keep it going. whatever it is it seems to be going. i don't think so. actually, some of the other people came up to me that were on the stand and they said man, i'm glad i didn't get those questions you were getting. and they didn't. i mean they didn't. but i've been set up before. i think i handled it well. i guess you have a couple polls that came out. drudge and "time" magazine i won in a landslide.

jeremy's newspaper a very good newspaper has a beautiful story in it to day about trump won. i think the questions were much tougher. i think i handled them well based on drudge and "time" and other the things i've been reading on twitter. >> so, donald one thing that you said before the debate is that this is something you haven't done before. and obviously, there's a learning curve and there are more debates to come. what would you tweak, change? what approach would you take if you could do it again? or what is your strategy next time? >> i don't think i could have done any better. i answered the questions well. there was no question that i would like to say oh, gee i wish i would like to have a do over. in this particular case i think the first was really a setup beyond belief lake raise your hand. by the way, other than that, the audience to me was fantastic. i was getting as many cheers as anybody. and by the way, the governor of ohio, another really good guy, i met him.

he was terrific and very nice to me in some of his answers. he had a lot of people in there. he is from ohio. i thought he was terrific. but i don't think so other than the first question was tough. raise your hand and i raised my hand. obviously i'm the only one going to raise my hand. there was a little bit of a wrangling in the room. outside of that, i had tremendous response all night. >> i want to hear a little bit more of an answer to that question as to why you raised your hand. because i think that's kind of a bigger story about the republican establishment, about the party and about leadership moving forward. why is it that you raised your hand? and what does it say about the party? >> i think i'm a natural negotiator. i like leverage to be honest with you. that's what the country needs. they need somebody that knows how to use leverage and cut down the $18 trillion in debt even

bigger than that frankly. and i just felt that why should i give up this leverage? i am running as a republican. and i'm winning by actually a lot. you see the polls. personally based on twitter and tile magazine polls and drudge i think i go up. i would think i go up. but we'll see what happens when the next numbers come out. i think i'll go up. there's a lot of love for what i'm saying. i don't know if it's for me but certainly there is a lot of love for what i'm saying. people are really fed up with politicians. and they want to know how to get us back. so i think i had a great time. i'm running as a republican. i'm a front-runner. i would much rather run as a republican. i let that be clear. and i just want to see if i'm -- if somebody gets in that i like

and if i'm treated with respect, i would not run as an independent. but i want to leave the option open just in case that doesn't happen. >> donald it's willie. good to talk to you this morning. >> hello willie. >> as you know if you look at the polls, if you do step outside and run as an independent candidate, it greatly damages the republican candidate in the race. are you worried at all about the idea of running as an independent and getting hillary clinton elected president? >> well you know again willie it's not something i want to do at all. but a lot of people are asking me to do it. they're begging me to do it. they think i would win as an independent. you don't need -- hillary is not exactly the great abraham lincoln as joe would say, by the way. but hillary is -- i think she's going to have a hard time. i don't know if she gets past the e-mail scandal. she's got a lot of problems going on. and so i don't even know she's going to be the candidate, necessarily. but certainly i'd rather run as

the republican. i think based on polls and that i see and new polls are coming out that i hear are great even better. but we had a poll come out in south carolina where i'm in the mid 30s. nevada where i'm in the 30s. by the way, winning the hispanic vote easily. we're having some north carolina poll came out where i'm in the 30s. it's a phenomenal poll. don't forget when you say the 30s, you're against 16 other people. that's -- when you're into the 30s, you're against 16 people. the fox poll i guess was 26% and one of them was 28%. en that is national polls. >> and, yeah in the deep south where i'm from you're in high cotton. let's go to the great "new york times" great jeremy peters. >> good morning, mr. trump. >> hi, jeremy. >> how are you? there's no doubt that last night fox went straight for you. they knew where to turn the screws, where the good tv would be. but i wonder if you worry that by picking a fight with the media you risk leaving the

impression with your supporters that basically there's no question anyone can ask you that everything is off-limits. >> i thought they were unfair questions, jair michlt ieremy. i think i handled it. i was congratulated. they couldn't believe what was happening. they were guesting softball questions. they couldn't believe what happened. maybe they were just being nice to me. they were tough. i don't care that much. i would have rather had maybe a different type of question. the question on the women, i didn't say many of those things. they said something and they were giving out some words and i don't remember that on "the apprentice." i don't know where they got some of the words, to be honest. in fact i'm going to have somebody call up and find out where the words came from. i don't recognize those words. not that i'm an angel, by the way. but i don't recognize those words. so she was spewing out these words. i'm sitting there. you know when i said the rosie o'donnell thing, the room broke up.

it was the biggest -- probably so, the biggest event in terms of sound and in terms of combustion in the room. it was the biggest vent of the evening. it really threw her off. it was interesting. it totally threw her off. she thought, you know this was going to be a cake walk. and that really was an interesting moment if you want to know the truth. but i don't recognize the words that she was giving me that i said this i said that. and some of those things i don't think happened. but we're going to have it checked out. >> yeah. al hunt is with us from bloomberg. >> let's pick up on that mr. trump. you want to continue this battle with megyn kelly? you said something later last night that you thought that she had been unfair as you just reiterated to day. can we see trump-kelly slugfest the next couple weeks? >> i don't care. it's not that important to me to be honest. i have a life. i have an interesting life. i have a good life. and it's okay. if she feels that she wants to do it that way, that's okay with me. but i just don't think it's very

professional. i do say this i was listening to you folks and joe before. if you're going to do that to me, i think it's great. you have to do it to everybody else. or ease it up. but you can't do it to trump. i walked out of that room and people were saying that was really unfair. if you look at twitter, i mean twitter is all over the place. it's the biggest story on twitter. it's the number one story on twitter about the unfair treatment. so it wasn't just joe and a couple of the folks that i'm talking to right now that saw it. people thought it was very unfair. can i live with that? yes. i'm very surprised at fox news that they would do that because, you know i would say it's pretty unprofessional. but we will live it with. it's just fine. >> let me ask you about the bankruptcy question. there was some people after that talked about bankruptcy for a time your company declaring bankruptcy four times.

you then talk about how you were the person to take care of america's national debt. square those two things up and i'm also wondering after you square that up weren't there a lot of better answers that you could have given, like for instance, the airline that i fly on, that i trust my life on that i trust my children's life on that, i trust my family's life on delta airlines. they went bankrupt and they came out a better company. don't you think there are better ways to answer it than that? >> i never went bankrupt. >> i know that donald. >> i have 500 companies. i did a filing. and i have 500 companies. i have a net worth of over $10 billion. i have an income of $400 million a year. this is in the federal filing. or it's in the, you know the filing, period. and i have an income a tremendous -- and these are four companies out of hundreds of

companies. and many other great people carl icahn, i could name ten people, they use the bankruptcy laws. and so do i. i bought things in the following day throw them in bankruptcy so i negotiate a great deal with banks. that they're not babies, by the way. they're pretty tough cookies. that's what i do. i use the threw my advantage. and i had made great deals. i make great deals, that's what i do. but out of hundreds of companies and hundreds of transactions, four of them. now for her to bring that up. i think i answered it really well. number one, i never went bankrupt. these are companies that are unrelated to a lot of things. >> yeah. >> i think i answered it really well. i built a tremendous net worth. but i use the laws of the nation sometimes to my advantage. they're there. you might as well use them. a lot of people don't get it. a lot of people don't know how. they don't understand it. and that's interesting and maybe it's better if they don't. but people such as myself i could throw out names, sam zell

i could throw out leon black of apollo apollo, a lot of big names. they do that and nobody talks about it. i could throw out other names. i won't do it. i don't want to embarrass anybody. but there is nothing to be embarrassed about. they have a company. they throw it in. they make a good deal. they take it out. and they're pros. we're pros. that question the way it was worded was i thought inappropriate. you wouldn't ask that question of warren buffett. you wouldn't ask that question of other people. but they ask it of me. i never went bankrupt. >> donald trump, thank you for calling in. we will see you soon. hopefully on the set of "morning joe." thanks a lot for calling in. great talking to you. >> thank you, donald. >> thank you. >> thank you, meek yachltika, thank you, joe. >> i think fox set out to do something last night. i think they ended up doing him a great service. >> do you really? >> i'll put it on the line. >> you think his numbers are going to go up. >> i think they'll go up. maybe 24 hours from now i'll be dead wrong.

but looking at the outtakes and i'm listening to him and if you look at the sound bites, the stuff people are going to watch. >> any time you pick a fight with the media, i think you risk looking like you're losing. he's not picking a fight with the liberal media this time. >> but donald has been picking a fight with the media all along. and he's been winning. i will say though if you're in a republican primary and you pick a fight with fox news that's a fight you don't want to pick. >> i don't know if his base of support really is the fox news audience per se. it's not really been this ideological audience. i think it's just people who are overall kind of frustrated and maybe not as tuned into the process. so i actually i kind of agree with mika. i don't know that he'll increase in the polls. but i don't think he falls back that much because i think he was brash. he was unapologetic. i think for better or worse, that's what a lot of fans like. >> here's the real wild card. we don't really know, al how

this is going to go. as i said, before usually you have a debate. and it's all the elites. it's all the donors. they're all getting marched in because somebody knows somebody. can you give me two tickets to the debate? can you give pe four tickets to the debate? and they all march in. and it's the party establishment that is watching the debate. donald trump has nobody in the party establishment supporting him. and last night on fox news he had very little -- very few people up there on fox news. >> and started out by saying i might leave you. that's honest. >> and he said i might leave you. i mean he is a real wild card because it seems to me the people that are supporting him aren't going to be in the hall because they're disaffected from the republican party as well. >> joe, i think that's right. i think he was hurt. i think he was cut. i think it will be slow. i don't think it will be anything dramatic. however, i wouldn't be stunned if mika is right. it may be that he is oblivious to all.

this i was in iowa for a couple days. when you talk to the people for trump, they don't see him as president. they just see him as someone who is going to give people hell and they like that. >> can you stay one more block? >> absolutely. >> still ahead, we'll look at carly fiorina's night who is being held as the breakout star from last night's debates. you're watching "morning joe" live from cleveland. ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. those who have served our nation. have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life.

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>> how does the conservative base feel about donald trump's performance last night? the executive editor of the daily caller joins us. "morning joe" live from cleveland. we're in a pub. we're at the tap. we'll be back in just a moment. shopping online is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. we're making hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. you don't have to be a member to buy their services directly at angieslist.com but members save more on special offers. angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. visit angieslist.com today. you wouldn't do half of your daily routine. so why treat your mouth any differently? complete the job with listerine®. kill up to 99 percent of germs. and prevent plaque, early gum disease and bad breath. sfx: ahhh listerine®. power to your mouth™! you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels,

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carly fiorina, closing statement. >> hillary clinton lies about benghazi. she lies about e-mails. she is still defending planned parenthood and she is still her party's front-runner. we need a nominee who is going to throw every punch, not poll punches, and someone who cannot stumble before he even gets into the ring. i'm not a member of the political class. i'm a conservative. i can win this job. i can do this job. >> all right. a lot to talk about about carly fiorina. there was a lot that worked for

her. that was carly fiorina at last night's happy hour debate. joining us now we have the executive editor of the daily caller and chief national kpant for correspondent for "the new york times." and joe and me are still here with you. let's talk about carly. first of all, i was really impressed. >> i think just about everybody i talked to was. vince, what did you think? >> i thought carly's performance last night was so good that fox actually had to bring her performance, clips of it, into the second debate to show the other candidates. >> that's right. >> so carly was definitely the winner in terms of her performance on stage. i thought she came out really strong. one thing i would note a lot of people are talking about how someone found her statement printed in and out a hotel printer. if you read that closing statement, it was word for word. her mem orization is incredible. her preparation for this debate was to the word.

she knew every word. >> precise. >> yeah. she nailed it. >> in a strange way, being on that undercard really helped her. because if she's in the big group of ten people and we're still talking about donald trump this morning, she gets lost in the shuffle. but she was such a clear winner to so many people in the undercard. she's got a big spotlight on her. i know we'll be talking to her in a few minutes. >> someone said that one person there is room for one person to basically escape from the happy hour debate. and it looked like it was carly. >> i think she was it. again, i think what willie said it benefited her to be -- to win the loser's bracket as it were as opposed to being blended in with the bigger bracket. >> she got a donald trump size crowd from the reporters by the way. in the spin room you sh you have seen. as soon as she walked in, every reporter was on carly. >> she's got a business background. she's a fighter. that's doing well in the polls these days. if you watched this show on wednesday morning, you wouldn't have been surprised by her performance. a lot of the things she said

about my first call will be to benjamin netanyahu. my second call is the supreme leader of iran. these were the things she said on the show if you've been listening to carly over the last few months this wouldn't have been a surprising performance. i think a lot of people haven't much that's what's so exciting. >> but here's what -- >> she outperformed every step of the way. >> she has. there were things though that she was able to control under a situation that you would probably describe as duress being on a debate stage, surrounded by men with people watching trying to breakthrough. and not a lot of people were able to do that quite well. carly did. and i think as a woman, i think she had other things that could have struck against her and she had them all in check. her voice, her demeanor her sense of control, her discipline, her precision. it was pitch perfect. >> yeah. i think she comes to the table knowing as a female candidate, the bar is just going to be a little higher. there are some things that are tougher and she came ready for. that. >> how did trump do with conservatives? >> i think all of the energy if you're just going to look at the

quantitative values trump did great. the trudge you is look at just how things are doing on line especially, on facebook, people respond to trump big time. it's evocative and emotional. people hear him talk. i was saying before trump is like the greatest news source for himself. you hear it all the time. he's talking about how fantastic i am. >> what's amazing is how no one has any idea how he did last night. even now. >> i think i know. i know. >> half the country seems to think that oh, he's off the rails now. this will be the beginning of the end. the other half saying clearly he won. it's emblematic of the make it up as you go along. >> he wasn't a war hero i thought that is when he was over. >> there you go, bullet proof. vince, mark thanks. kristen, thank you. coming up on "morning joe," live from cleveland, chris matthews eugene robinson and bloomberg's reporter joins the conversation. we'll be right back.

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all right. still ahead, the candidates join us here at flannery's. carly fiorina, senator lindsey graham and rick santorum all join us at the pub. chris matthews and eugene robinson robinson.

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raise your hand now if you won't make that pledge tonight. mr. trump? mr. trump. to be clear, you're standing on a republican primary debate -- >> i fully understand. >> i fully understand. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joe, willie and me are live from

flannery's pub in cleveland. the center of the political universe last night and this morning. joining the conversation we have the host of msnbc's "hard ball," chris matthews pulitzer prize winning columnist and nbc political analyst eugene robinson and also senior correspondent from bloomberg business week josh green. you were so good on "hard ball" last night. >> i'll help you out. >> i did it for you. >> it has my lipstick on it. it's okay. >> too early. >> a little early? >> the morning avenue party. >> we're still up. >> okay. we got a lot going on this morning. >> we have a lot going on. we've been trying to figure out exactly what happened last night. fox news of course very tough on donald trump number problem with. that but seemed tougher on trump than everybody else.

the question i've been asking has been, it's going to hurt him at the end of the day. boy, guiness at 7:00 in the morning is tough. and i'm not a beer drinker. zbh i'm not either. >> you said it's going to help him in the polls. i'm starting to get some reporting in this morning that is suggesting you're right and i'm wrong. let's -- must be very scientific about this. josh green with bloomberg, i'm going to go with you first. this is scientific. did you something extraordinary after the debate last night. tell us about it. >> so i called all the ohio trump supporters from bloomberg's last poll and give me the instant reaction after the debate. they were furious at fox news. they thought trum health care plan been railroaded. i talked to a 69-year-old nurse named janet roberts. she said fox news showed me everything that's wrong with american politics. and they said support for trump

only intensified. i think that will be true of a lot of trump supporters. if you tuned in to see donald trump, you got donald trump. why you would abandon him. >> the gasoline for his program, the rocket fuel a middle finger to the establishment. that means the media and politicians standing on stage with him. he did that again last night. he was short on substance. we talked about that. his cam paint isn't about substance. fwz telling everybody in the elite and establishment and media, including fox news screw you guys. zbh i'm not ready to cross the river sticks to fox news yet. i understand fox is getting flooded with e-mails about how the debate was performed last night. it will be interesting to see what roger, bill what a lot of my buddies over there say as we go into the afternoon. gene i'm going also ask you for on the ground reporting last night. >> yeah. >> you were -- you went out to

see how the response was to the debate. >> i watched the debate at the house of blues which was an american conservative union. >> you fit in well. >> they were great. everyone was gracious. while cheering for donald trump from the beginning he got the biggest ovation all night long. and all those, you know whenever he would lob a bomb at him, his response got a huge cheer. the first one about would you declare that you wouldn't run as an independent and he gave the answer big cheer. the thing about statements he made about women, you know tend of his answer big cheer. big cheer. he got big cheers and of course on immigration. >> which shows, mika i think from what we're hearing at least

right now, you may be right here. >> chris matthews you asked a fascinating question before we went on the air. it's a question i started asking a couple weeks ago which is -- this is right out of tootsie when bill murray says when people walk out of his place, he likes them to go what just happened? what just happened? i guess my question is your question. where are we exactly? are we picking a president? are we starting a protest movement? what is happening right now in this party? because this still seems to be donald trump's party even after a really uneven performance. >> the republican party, as you know, before the civil war was composed of the abolitionists and the wigs and the people driven by passion about slavery, driven by ideology. that seems to be coming apart. it may not stay apart. then they get back together. but when i see donald trump doing this and doing this thing

he does. this is my proposition got it? i'm bringing this party down. i'm going to say it. if they don't pick the right guy, me i'm running against it. that's a pretty direct challenge to the republican party itself. so i see this as a coalition of really wild angry conservatives and they're out there now. and an establishment party emblemized by jeb bush the ultimate sort of wig political party of landon wealth that has some good instincts. i think that's coming apart right now. i think as long as this goes on as a tv event, trump is on home court. i don't think he had any charm last ni. most of the time when you have him on or people have him on he has that smile. you go he doesn't really mean it. he's really not that nasty. i thought it was going to be a fight between megyn kelly who is very ambitious and him. and she wanted to score some points last night, too. and the minute he saw her trying to score points on him, boom! >> yeah. >> and now the social immediate

yashgs of course, is on his side according to what i'm listening. to on right, they're rooting for him. so they want rebellion. they want mutiny they want to take on -- and nobody is saying how great jeb bush is. it just isn't there. >> i spoke at cpac a couple years ago, willie. the biggest applause line was big government republicanism is just as bad as big government conserve -- as big government liberalism. and the crowd went wild because if you're at the american conservative union, if you're at cpac if, yurt republican base then you're like me. you feel your party has betrayed you because they spent too much money, they drove up the debt way too much. they got us into way too many wars and they get elected and i've seen it for 30 years. they get elected. they go to washington. and they become part of the problem. and if that's how -- that's how i feel. that's how millions of conservatives feel right now,

why wouldn't awe plaud a guy that said, no i'm not going to support some schmuck that's going to go up and extend big government republicanism into the fourth decade. >> whether you're donald trump or carly fiorina, can you say i'm not one of them. you all hate these people. i agree with you. i'm not one of these politicians. the question for donald trump is if you're a conservative, he is really that conservative guy you think he is? i think some of the questions started to get at that last night. your support in the past for democrats, you were pro-choice. a single payer health care. you said it works in canada and scotland, why not the united states? there are questions about hisself-described conservatism. i don't think they did it last night. if you're his conservative horse, you may check closer. >> if they just stuck to those questions, i think it will be a different story this morning. >> trump's worst moment he is said i evolved a great deal.

sounded just like mitt romney. >> that's a problem. i agree that is the worst moment. it sounded like a politician. for the whole rest of the -- >> by the way, we conservatives and somebody says we evolve we shutter. it's always -- they've evolved. bad moment for him. >> for the whole rest of the debate, i thought trump's success was not sounding like a politician. was sounding like something different. i think -- this is my theory. i don't have the science to back it up. i think his core support is people who are fed up with both parties. would are fed up with politics. who are fed up with politicians. >> yeah. >> don't have the sort of you know clinging to the idea that it has to be the republican party that does it. >> so chris, we were talking about ideology. i talked about this before a couple weeks ago about what i'm sure you heard, too, bobby

kennedy's family always shocked that his support after his death in june of '68, a lot of it went over to george wallace. donald trump, i think it proves what i've always believed. americans just aren't that ideological. i don't think donald trump is about ideology. i think it's all protest against -- >> i think it's really a deep patriotism. you meet a lot of west virginia guys, a lot of country guys. he took me under his wing this fellow, leroy taylor. he said -- i'm a college kid. he called me aside. chris, you know why the little man loves this country? because that's all he's got. and the regular guy out there who didn't have a college and a big fancy family doesn't have a fancy home or vacation home or anything really. all he has is his flag.

he feels he's been betrayed. he feels nobody is looking out for the border. nobody is looking out for the debt and his jobs. we're selling them off to foreign countries. we're not looking out for who even comes into his -- people walk into the country, you don't even have to be an american. he said nobody is even looking out for my americanism anymore. and trump got to that sense of betrayal. he says it in a way that people get it. and it's raw. and he's not a perfect vessel by any means. he knows how to talk. he said something very honest about the immigration issue. if i wasn't here we wouldn't be talking about it. illegal immigration. not undocumented workers. not all the euphemisms we grew up with, all the political correctness. i think on the women thing, that is not a political correct thing. he overstretched the definition of breaking with -- you can't talk about people that way. i think that megyn kelly is the perfect person to raise that with him. she was out there scoring points against hip. i think chris wallace made a mistake of challenging him on the points on immigration when

he was missing the main thrust. he's the only politician. i think rubio did talk about at least illegal hiring. nobody believes the politicians are going to fix the problem. the republicans represent the business guys who want the cheap labor that's coming over tomorrow night. not last week. tomorrow night. freshest cheapest hardest working people are the guys that just got here. they want that cheap labor. and the democrats, let's face it, want the votes. >> the fix is n you're exactly right. that's why a lot of americans still betrayed him. but what's interesting about trump, willie? you and i have noticed this over the past several weeks, what donald trump is saying now about our leaders being stupid and deals with the chinese and in deals with the mexicans and deals with people all across the world, he has been saying since the 1980s. you go to every interview where he talks politics he's been saying the same exact thing. he believes it. >> we played a clip of the

"today" show from 1987 the other morning. donald trump talking to jane pauley and replaced to day's china with 1987's japan. it was almost like he was giving a speech in 1987 that he was giving last night on the stage. his message is clear the whole time. one of the people that went after donald trump to try to get attention from him is rand paul. senator paul had been stagnating a little bit. went on the attack, particularly when it came to chris christie and donald trump. >> he buys and sells politicians of all stripes. he's already -- >> dr. paul? >> he's already hedging his bet on the clintons okay? so if he doesn't run as a republican, maybe he supports clinton or maybe he runs as an independent. >> okay. >> but i'd say that he's already hedging bets because he's used to buying politicians. >> i have plenty of money. >> news flash, the republican party is fighting against a single payer system for a decade. so i think you're on the wrong side of this if you're still

arguing for a single payer system. >> i don't think you heard me. you are having a hard time tonight. >> respecting civil liberties and protecting homeland. i will make no apologies ever for protecting the lives and the safety of the american people. >> i want to collect more records from terrorists but less records from innocent americans. [ applause ] the fourth amendment was what we thought fought the revolution over. i'm proud of standing for the bill of rights and i will continue to stand for the bill of rights. >> that's a completely ridiculous answer. i want to collect more records from terrorists but less records from other people. how you are supposed to know? what are you supposed to -- >> use the fourth amendment. get a warrant. get a judge to sign it. >> wait. governor christie make your point. >> senator, when you're sitting in a subcommittee just blowing hot air about this you can say things like. that when you're responsible for

protecting the lives of the american people, then what you need do is to make sure that you use the system the way it's supposed to work. >> i'm talking about searches without warrants. that's what i fought to end. i don't trust president obama with our records. i know you gave him a big hug. if you want to give him a big hug again go, right ahead. >> the hugs i remember are the hugs i gave to the families that lost their families on 9/11. that's what i remember. >> wow! major fireworks. >> yeah. >> he was great, chris christie. >> yeah. >> where i was sitting, rand paul got cheers. >> really? >> i thought he had a rough night. >> he got some cheers. otherwise, i thought he had a rough night. >> trump buried him with that aside. you're having a hard night. cut him off at the knees. >> it was clear though chris that, rand paul was going to take a donald trump moment when he knew all at tension and eyes

were going to be there and jump at that first clupip we played was off the first question. then on the single payer question which donald said the opposite of what rand paula kused him of. >> he had to go on the attack to get back in the game. it's like in basketball you have to foul the other team to get the ball. >> did it work? >> number trump made the ap wire story for the first two hours of the first minute. i'm not going to stick with the republican party. that was a direct statement. i'm not part of this here. i'm here to try to change this country. i think that was the news all night long. and nothing beat it again. >> the other thing i think resonated with a lot of people was that thing about trump buying politicians and trump essentially said yeah sure. i bought a lot of politicians. i give them money so they return my calls when i need something. >> and that moment -- >> people on this stage -- people say why did hillary come

to your wedding? he said because i ordered her to. >> i tell her to come to the wedding, she comes. >> they only come when i buy them. >> yeah. >> he's good with it. >> welcome to america the beautiful. >> but that's the system. i played the system. i think that resonated with a lot of people. it was a glimpse at how it really works. >> it's honest. zbh and >> and it's true. the reason politicians go and pros pros straight themselves that, part of the message zblment do you realize the truth he is sowing? it worked. the clintons take honorary even for weddings. >> so do we -- do most of us agree that rand paul was the loser last night? is that an understatement? >> i think rand paul and ben

carson just didn't stand out. >> yeah. >> they asked him like three questions the whole night, right? he kind of stood there. >> i think he was totally lost until his closing statement. >> ted cruz also you forgot he was on the stage there for a while. >> yeah. >> again, maybe that's because they were so obsessed on trump and taking down trump that people like ben carson and ted cruz and rand paul -- >> cruz's style, that princeton debating style or whatever he speaks in paragraphs he phrases. and for some reason that just seemed a bit out of place last night. it didn't connect, i think, the way it might have in some other setting. >> another person we haven't mentioned in 45 minutes is jeb bush. just saying. >> yeah. >> listen, i saw some poll that insiders say that jeb had a good night. i sure didn't see that.

>> that's -- by the way, that's what insiders would say. and that's how we used to judge these things based on what insiders say. this is not an election that insiders are going to decide. >> what was fascinating about jeb is if donald trump had not been on that debate stage, his answer on iraq i think, would have been the headline coming out of this debate. still struggling with it. defending his brother and his father and trying to connect and really i think failing to connect with the conservative base. because of all the fireworks and the donald trump show nobody is talking about that. >> they go -- somebody is saying i don't want to have to wait until friday to know what the senator meant on tuesday. it takes a long time when jeb says something to refine it. what did he exactly mean? he's like an older brother that is cautioning you all the time. don't go so fast. but what are you doing here? something really distance. he's no the that passionate.

>> it's a good word diffident. i like that word. i always have. >> i never knew exactly how to use it. >> maybe i'm being diffident about it. >> i think you want to see who you would debate out of this group. for me, trump, christie rubio and carly fiorina. i'd like to see a room with those folks debating. >> we have to talk really briefly. but scott walker read his talking points very well. i've been very honest about liking scott walker a lot. sort of more naturally lined up with him ideologically than most other candidates. i didn't agree with everything he did on first union fight. but agree with him for the most part. but it seems that all scott walker's people want him to do is read talking points that we heard since 1980. >> he walked in with his lunch pail and opened up the lunch

pail and said here i am. okay. it was prepared material. one thing about last night, i thought most people didn't do. that everybody seemed to be spontaneous and reactive. they seemed like they were awake. >> they were on. >> they didn't come in with the little things he planned. he looked like he was doing that. >> we deposit say anything about huck abeechlt huckabee is just great on tv wlchlt you agree or disagree huckabee is great on tv. >> last time he was the happy warrior. he wasn't so happy last night. >> he was not. josh green, thank you so much. >> thank you josh. >> chris matthews and eugene robinson stay with us if you can. >> you can't go. >> and i'm going to drink your beer. can i have this beer? >> it's coffee time for me. >> flannery's guinness you turned down. >> is that an irish reference? >> still ahead, you drink, i talk. presidential contenders carly fiorina and rick santorum

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when i was 21 when i was 22, my dad died. woenld a liquor store, restaurant, bar and we lived in the back. every penny we needed from -- every penny we got from social security because my sister was a minor, we needed. today i'm 60. i'm not married and i don't have any kids. i would give up social security to save the system that americans will depend on in the future. if you make me your president, i'll put the country ahead of the party. i'll do what it takes to defend this nation. this nation has been great to me and that's the only way i know to pay you back. >> and that was republican senator lindsey graham. he joins us now.

we have the moderator of "meet the press." you have a gift. >> i do. >> they gave you an empty room yesterday. >> this is not a crowd. people in a bar at 7:30 in the morning. thanks. >> there you go. >> i grew up with you. >> there you go. they could have given him a beer, at least. an empty room. >> they could have gotten prisoners to come. >> it could have been a little johnny cash moment. >> they could have shipped in prisoners. we said before you looked uncomfortable up there. nobody's ever seen you look uncomfortable in front of a tv. i never seen you -- whenever there is a camera, there you're comfortable. i've known you for 20 years. you looked uncomfortable yesterday. we thought it might be because the bizarre setup of having you talk to 20,000 -- an empty room that usually holds 20,000 people. >> it's like having a debate in a bathroom. at the end of the day, it was a bit uncomfortable.

when people start getting you going and the guy next to you or the gal next to you is fun. but, you know -- >> you feed off the crowd. >> you feed off the crowd. whether wh there is no crowd, it's hard to feed. >> you have a very warm crowd here. >> and the more you drink, the better i'll sound. >> yes. >> by the end of this you'll want to kill isil too. >> just three beers, right? all right, so we want to talk about the debate. before we talk about the debate massive news last night. chuck schumer decided to use the donald trump debate to bury the lead that the most important democratic jewish voice in america is actually against this deal. mika, i -- i don't usually tweet in the middle of debates. but i did on this one. and i said -- i just asked, now is barack obama going to call chuck schumer ignorant or a liar

like he suggested at american university? anybody that doesn't support this deal was either ignorant or not telling the truth. >> so senator graham senator schumer released a statement saying i will vote to disapprove the agreement not because i believe war is a viable or desirable option nor the challenge to the path of diplomacy, it is because i believe iran will not change. and under this agreement, it will be able to achieve its duel goals of eliminating sanctions while retaining its nuclear and nonnuclear power. >> what do you think? >> a very political big deal. you know the accusation that i and other republicans are aligned with hard-liners against the moderates took a blow. there are no moderates running the government. the moderates exist -- >> you're talking about in iran? >> in iran they were shut down in 2009. chuck saying no to this deal is a very big political move and it's not between this bad deal and a war electronics between

this deal and a better deal. so at the end of the day, not much discussion the second debate. how you would actually get a better deal? is it really a choice between this deal and a war? if it's a bad deal how did we get there and how can you fix this bad deal? >> let's bring in chuck todd from new york. chuck, we want to talk to you about the debate obviously. this is big news. one of the most important democratic voices in washington really undercutting everything president obama said at american university the other day. sort of an us versus them approach which some people say sounded a lot like george w. bush trying to justify the gulf war. >> look, in his reasoning was just a scathing indictment of the entire deal. i think the toughest part the toughest critique of the deal is where he echoed what benjamin netanyahu echoed has been arguing which is if iran complies with the deal it's a bad deal. because at the end of the deal if nothing changes inside of

iran, then they're a nuclear threshold state. and that is the unacceptable outcome from him. the only favor he did, joe, is what you brought up at the point. he buried it and i think honestly that schumer is not campaigning to stop it. look at the person that rarely splits with schumer on foreign policy issues she came out for it first early. you can't help but wonder is if he gave a heads up he had gone first before her or then maybe he would start campaigning f you're the white house today, you knew you were going to lose schumer. tactically this is the way you want to lose him. after you had already secured some other votes. >> and while the rest of america was looking at donald trump. hey, chuck let's move on to why we brought you here. >> yes, sir. >> talk about the debate. we've had some interesting information come on the set about trump. a lot of anecdotal.

but we didn't think trump did especially well. we thought it might actually impact him. but gene robinson josh green came back with some pretty strong anecdotal evidence that all it did is ril up his voters more. >> it co. a lot has to do with how -- you can't help but say that tone for trump was set by the moderatmoderators. they were tough on him from the beginning. to put the third party question at the top of the debate it -- it's a scene setter. and if you're a rank and file republican voter, you can't help but -- that's got to give you pause on trump, no matter how much you may like what you've heard, you sit there and say, geez, he doesn't want to be a member of the party. the normal laws of politics, joe, would say that this debate didn't help him. it probably hurt him. but every time we thought something was going to hurt him, he has defied conventional political gravity.

so we'll see. a lot of this may depend on how aggressive fox is at replaying the megyn kelly moment f that is on a loop over the next 48 hours and conservative media circles, that's not good for trump. >> i think the big question is what is fox hearing this morning and my guess is that fox is catching a lot of hell for the debate last night because where gene was at the american conservative union, they were booing the questions. cheering for trump, booing the questions. >> i had the exact same idea that this was more of a inqui decision -- inquisition than a debate. >> you've been critical of donald trump, for you to say that is pretty strong. >> at the end of the day, as the man a question to explain his positions and his solutions rather than start out with a ten-minute question saying you're the biggest bastard on the planet.

>> that does set him up. he's not. i met -- he may be in the top ten, but he's not. >> but -- here we go. thank you. >> keep him drinking. >> all right. >> please. >> cheers. >> don't stop at that. okay. >> get the shots, mika. >> a missed opportunity. i thought it was a missed opportunity to talk about things that really mattered. you understand what our position on immigration was after this debate? everybody was wonderful. you're not going to self deport 11 million people. i don't know whether we're at self-deportation or magically go away. >> chuck i want to follow up on this. i know all three of the moderators and like them all very much. and they're all very good at what they do. it was an inquisition of donald trump. they were very long questions. they all ended with a zinger which is like so tell me when again did you become a

republican? it was all -- as lindsey graham said, somebody being harshly critical of donald trump, it did seem like an inquisition to trump while marco rubio is getting questions about what is the best way to make daffodils bloom in a spring time? >> he talked about it with command, like using peat moss and making sure the flowers grow. there are different philosophies. you and mika have done it. i've done it. there are interview questions. you come up with questions. you can come up with greats questions. is this an interview question for a specific candidate or is this a question that allows for actual debate between multiple people on stage? and you have to make that decision as a moderator how you go. you saw really good interview questions. sometime interview questions are not the best debate questions. they don't spark actual

conversation as senator graham said on an issue. >> i have to pay tribute you to. you're one of the few senators who's been absolutely consistent on a coherent plan to deal with illegal immigration. illegal immigration is not about the people that have been here for 20 years. snob going throw them out. it's about the guy coming over tomorrow night. >> most of us wouldn't, yeah. >> the guy coming over is coming because an illegal job waiting for him in chicago or something. he has a cousin that says come up. there is a job in the kitchen. can you make $3 an hour. you're not making anything now. that's the deal. i thought it was great that you pushed for the comprehensive solution which is we have to deal with people here. we have to deal with the policy we follow going in the future. and that's the positive thing that every government has to do. rubio came out for e-verify. he had the guts to come out for it. donald trump is not going to come out against illegal hiring much these business guys -- they need illegal hiring and the businesses they represent. i think that is the challenge you have in your party. the democrats problem is they want all the votes.

>> there's a reason we have gone from 44% to 27% of hispanics about this issue. i've been doing this for ten years. if you got a tattoo for being a gang and trying to solve the immigration problem, i'd have a harmful. mexico is not making the people come here. they're coming here because they want to. try to get a better life. they live in hell holes. they're trying to come to america. they're mostly very good people. the whole construct that they're sending worst to america i jekt. and we're doubling down on the strategy that is not working. we're demonizing a group of people who have relatives who are legal. the dream act kids come here as babies illegal. they've had a brother, sister born here. so when you slander their brother and sister what do you think the legal part of the family thinks? at the end of the day, i think we're missing a great opportunity to talk about a party that can grow fix immigration in a rational way. i'm disappoint the as where we're going on immigration.

we're going backward, not forward on as a party. >> let me ask you another question before you go or have another beer which ever you choose. joe said you've been critical of donald trump including on the immigration point you just made there. he's leading the poll. based on what you saw last night, if you should not get the nomination, would you be comfortable with him as your nominee. >> i would vote for the nominee. if it was donald i would hold my nose and vote but hillary clinton will beat him like a drum. 60% of the people say they would never vote for him under any circumstance. that seems like a good guy to pick. >> i don't think that is the beer talking. >> no. >> i think we can have a facial expression contest. lind lindsey and me. your pretty good. thank you very much for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> lindsey graham. chuck todd thank you as well. coming up two more presidential

candidates join "morning joe." we're going to talk to carly fiorina and rick santorum. we'll be right back live from cleveland.

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okay. up next, two state republican chairman including one from the key swing state here in ohio they break down the state of the party and the race after last night's big debate. "morning joe" live from flannery's pub in cleveland is back in a moment. ♪ no student's ever photographed mean ms. colegrove. but your dell 2-in-1 laptop gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie. that's that new gear feeling. get this high performance laptop bundle for only $399. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. i'm caridee. i've had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life.

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♪ thank you. all right. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 47 past. we're live at flannery's in cleveland. and we got a the lo of beer here. we're going to see a drinking game with our next guest, chair of the ohio republican party, matt borges chair of the mississippi republican party and

republican congressman shawn duffy of wisconsin who is a surrogate for governor scott walker's campaign. you definitely need one of these. all right. >> matt, let's start with you. a big night for ohio. a big night for ohio republicans. what's it a big night for ohio's favorite son john kasich? >> i think it was. we were thrilled to have this here. it was great to bring all the attention to ohio and cleveland where the center of the political universe every four years and maybe this time more so than ever. not only bringing the convention here and in a little less than a year and had the first gop debate here last night, but now our governor is running for president and off to a great start much he's up to second place in the polls in new hampshire. he had -- i thought he had a great performance. >> congressman, you're here for scott walker. what new did we learn about scott last night? >> i think he looked presidential. you had people that were throwing bombs at one another who on the out skirts with eight, nine and ten positions. and scott walker was i think presidential. he gave great answers. he kept the focus on hillary which was positive.

i think we're not looking for who can fill the best red meat we're looking at who has the best ideas that can move the country forward. >> what you would say is the big rational for scott walker's presidential campaign? what is the one thing can you say about him that makes him different? >> we have huge problems in america. you have to fix the debt. you have to fix entitlements. what scott walker did in wisconsin shows he has the leadership capability to lead the country forward like did he in wisconsin. you'll get huge blowback when we do the big reform that's are necessary to fix the country. scott walker is not wavering. you need a guy like that to fix america. >> joe, there is obviously a split right now in the republican party. you've got reformers. you have people that are supporting trump. sort of the anti-establishment types and then the establishme in. t type and we're hearing that here, too. >> we had a governor elected with 93% of the vote. >> that's not bad. >> that's unified. last night i thought from my perspective that nobody walked in there who was for donald trump who walked out not for

him. i don't think will is anybody who walked in not for him that walked out for him. >> how strong is he in mississippi? >> i think people him. >> how is trump doing in mississippi? >> i think people are intrigued but his numbers are soft numbers. i think jeb bush in my opinion made a lot of progress because the people for him are for him in my opinion for sure. he is not his dad, not his brother but his own person. i thought chris christie everybody said he had to break out. i think his moment the colloquy they had where it was like do you want a law professor to talk about philosophy or somebody to protect the country. >> we just talked to lindsey graham about donald trump is leading the polls. if scott walker is not nominated would you be comfortable with donald trump? >> i would. anybody in the lead by that kind

of margin. if you think you are going to win you are like we support the leader the winner of the primary when donald trump says no it tells you he is not serious thinking he is going to win. i did reality tv back in the day. donald trump is still playing reality tv guy. he is playing reality tv with you guys. >> you said you would support him if he is the nominee? >> i think he won't be the nominee but he is better than hillary clinton. >> let me ask you about the moment at the beginning of the debate when asked if he would support the republican nominee? >> gives us pause when you hear a candidate on the stage say that they wouldn't support the eventual nominee, that is a huge problem. we are looking for someone who is ready to rally around the nominee. we love our favorite son, john

kasich. he is the only one who has done it on the federal and state level. we would love to see him emerge from this process. we have to get ohio red again. >> i will ask you the same question. if it is donald trump do you support donald trump as a nominee? >> we would take the position that we would support whoever the nominee is. the fact that he won't is making us question. >> if donald trump ends up being the nominee then we are wrong about him not being a serious candidate. if romney's problem was he couldn't connect to the average voter i'm not sure donald trump is the answer for that. still ahead on "morning joe." their dislike for hillary clinton. we will play big one liners against the democratic front runner ahead. and carly fiorina is moments

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the washington examiner says there were two debates and only one winner. that winner carly fiorina joins us next live on "morning joe."

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it seems like this election has been a lot about a person who has been high in the polls and doesn't have a clue about how to govern a person who has been filled with scandals and who could not lead. of course, i'm talking about hillary clinton. >> i think god has blessed us blessed the republican party with really good candidates. the democrats can't find one. how is hillary clinton going to lecture me about living paycheck to paycheck? i was raised paycheck to paycheck. how is she going to lecture me on student loans?

i owed $100,000 just four years ago. hillary clinton lies about benghazi. she lies about e-mails. she is still defending planned parenthood and is still her party's front runner. 2016 is going to be a fight between conservatism and a democratic party undermining the character of this nation. we need a nominee who will throw every punch and somebody who can't stumble before he even gets into the ring. welcome back to "morning joe" live from flanry's pub in cleveland, ohio. remember when i threw tough questions she punched back. when you get on that debate

stage and you are like boom, boom boom i'm done. we have republican presidential candidate carly fiorina, also pulitzer prize winner columnist for the washington post. it is great to have you on board. congratulations on a great debate yesterday. >> thank you. >> frank is right here. cheers. there we go. >> he enjoyed watching too. >> you know that a republican has broken through when at the end of the debate nika goes i don't like republicans but she really inspires me. maybe i shouldn't have said that on the air. >> thanks. >> you had to be in a really change situation, carly, because outside of that room people like me were on the phone calling

saying turn on the tv. you have to watch this. this is a breakout moment in american politics. inside like lindsey graham said it was empty like debating in a bathroom. there was no reaction. >> i have done that before. >> great. you couldn't have known until you stepped out. it had to be surreal. >> it was. here you are in this cavernous stadium, basically. it's deadly quiet because there is no audience. occasionally somebody would applaud and get shooshed because it was against the fox news rules. >> look at this. carly fiorina, you never have like knockouts unless it is in a movie. put those back up again where you have one newspaper after another newspaper saying you absolutely dominated the debate. carly fiorina won the happy hour debate by a lot, that's the washington post.

carly fiorina dominates, the daily beast. carly fiorina shines politico. carly fiorina clear winner washington examiner. those reviews are a lot better than she's okay. >> newt gingrich tweeted immediately after the debate that they should invite carly fiorina back for the 9:00 debate. >> they did. they used a sound byte. >> so obviously you got momentum coming out of that. what do you do with that now? what is your next move? >> i went into this debate with only 40% of republicans knowing my name. i had the lowest name i.d. of anyone in the field because i'm not a celebrity and not a professional politician. i started this campaign in may with a lot of people saying i wonder if she can do this. now a lot of people discovered there is more than one woman

running for president. a lot of people discovered i could do this job. >> we are showing the top searched candidate during the debate every state but louisiana and alaska. rick perry is big in alaska. >> i'm going to keep doing what i have been doing. i'm going to keep talking to the american people about the issues i think they care about. i'm getting on an airplane heading to georgia for a red state gathering. i am going to keep campaigning and talking to people about what i think they care about. >> i want to ask you a donald trump question but not the type asked of most other questions. i was noticing you outperformed when i saw you in new hampshire. you are the one candidate i have seen in a long time that exceeds expectations. i started seeing your numbers go up and then there was the big trump rise. i thought another business

person antiwashington person may have taken some of the wind out of your sails. did you sense that when trump rose did you get a bump down? and how do you work around that? >> i think when you look at the polls when trump started rising everybody started falling. one of the reasons for that is because national polls measure name i.d. donald trump is a celebrity. if you look at state polls we are in the top ten in state polls and have been consistently in the top ten and remain in the top ten. i think this is a long race. this is going to be a process of elimination before it is a process of selection. and i think after last night i'm still in the race and i'm going to be in the race for the long haul. >> i would say you are more than in the race. when you and i spoke yesterday before the debate you said you hoped to accomplish that people would know your name. i think that is a done deal. what was the question you didn't

get asked that you wish you had a chance to talk about? >> i didn't get asked a lot of questions, any questions on the economy. i threw my point of view on the economy in at one point. i wish we had more time to talk about that. honestly the time goes very very quickly when you are up there and there are so many people. i wish i had time to talk about how i would cut the washington bureaucracy down to size. it is a hugely important thing. we talked about this on your show before. we have to get citizens engaged in this process of holding the bureiocracy accountable. >> part of the trump phenomenon i think is that he is not a politician and people are just done with politicians. you're not a politician. will you play that up even more going forward? the fact that you are not like these guys? >> it's certainly been a big part of what i have been talking

about and i will continue to. it's interesting that you mention that because when i launched in early may a lot of the pundantry in the political class said you are not a politician, how can you do this? if you look at some of those interviews i said you know what voters say? yea, you are not a politician. i think people really under estimate how tired folks are of the sanitized sound bytes, bumper sticker rhetoric. i think people are tired of it. you know why they are tired of it? because our problems fester. because whatever people care about honestly the political class has failed them. >> when people hear politicians go into political speak they say that is fine but they are not going to do it. >> you know it when a candidate switches into their stump speech in response not to the question but just because they want to

get out their sound bytes. >> i will describe it because these were television events both the 5:00 and later event. i think when rick santorum and bobby jindal i don't know because i went like this and when you spoke i was like what is she saying? it wasn't like trump which was more of a reality show itself. i wonder what you think of how the evening debate went. do you think it was sort of interesting the way they approached trump compared to the other candidates and was it fair? >> well i think the first question out of the box which was would you commit to supporting whoever the nominee is, i think that was an important question. i think it was a telling answer on his part. so now voters will have to decide what do they think about

that. i. >> i agree and i think he was honest. the questions towards him versus to other questions did you see it as a take down of trump. did you see a difference? >> i think the questions were pretty tough of every candidate. i certainly noticed at the 5:00 p.m. and the 9:00 p.m. that the questions -- i give the moderators credit for this. they were set up in a way to say here is a vulnerability. how do you answer it? i think the vulnerabilities are the characteristics of donald trump or marco rubio or anyone else were fair. >> what did you think of the question posed to trump about his comments about women being dogs or whatever they were? terrible comments but taken completely out of context? >> i said of both democrats and republicans, i don't think that name calling is helpful in

politics and we have too much of it. i think when you paint with a broad brush it's not helpful. we have too much of it. i have been critical of some of donald trump's comments. when the president of the united states compares republicans to iranians chanting death to america that is equally problematic and doesn't get nearly as much attention. >> as you know with success last night comes a bigger spot light and more scrutiny. there are people coming out saying carly fiorina was great last night. let's look at what she did at hp. it is getting a lot more scrutiny this morning. you have heard it all, job losses golden parachute for you as you went out the door. how do you respond to criticisms? >> i led hp through a difficult time. in tough times like this sometimes tough calls are

necessary. despite the tough times we took a company from $44 billion to almost $90 billion. we quadrupled the growth rate and tripled innovation to 11 patents a day and went from lagging behind to leading. many of our competitors don't exist. i was fired in a board room brawl. when you lead you challenge the status quo. and when you challenge the status quo you make enemies. it's part of it. it is part of why so many people don't lead. i am exceptionally proud of the hard work the people at hewlett-packard did to transform a company from a laggard to a leader. >> i view it as a success story? >> i do. >> the numbers sound good. >> you don't get to fudge the numbers. the numbers are the numbers. >> i'm not really good with

numbers. >> you went to alabama and only learned to count to one. >> you are all a bunch of communists. roll tide! >> that's why you pander. >> that's sort of the carly i was just attacking ohio state for beating alabama. file this under when you talk tough you make enemies. let me ask you a question that you said wasn't asked last night which i think is the most important question. what do we do about the economy? average wages declining since 1973. the rich is getting richer poor are getting poorer. working class is disappearing. middle class is squeezed. manufacturing jobs have gone away. some are coming back but they

went away at $30 an hour and coming back at $15 an hour. how do we get this economy back to the place where we were in 1970 1971 1972? >> three things. we have to know what the engine of economic growth. it's small businesses new businesses, family owned businesses. i started out as a secretary in a nine-person real estate firm. my husband, frank, started out driving a tow truck. most americans start out the way we did. small businesses create two thirds of the new jobs. we are crushing them. when we crush small business we are destroying more than we are creating for the first time in u.s. history. >> how are we crushing small businesses? >> the weight of a 75,000 page tax code regulations that keep pouring out of this government. point two, crony capitalism is

alive and well. the bigger government gets the more capitalism succeeds. only certain kinds of people make it when government is so big and costly and powerful. the big, the wealthy, the rel connected, the powerful. the small, powerless are getting crushed. we need to understand in the 21st century we have to compete for any job. we are not competing for jobs. we have the highest tax rate in the world. that's insanity. we have a regularatory environment that is crushing. president obama just rolled out a set of epa regulations, didn't talk to anybody, didn't ask anybody. this is a lawless overreach and they are going to crush jobs. they are going to increase the price of energy which is important if you are trying to compete globally for jobs. we have to get small business going and growing again. we have to break the strangle

hold of a powerful government. if you look at the states where liberal policies have been in place for the longest california is an example. liberals have been in charge for a long time. 120 plus billionaires, good for them. the highest poverty rates in the nation. the exodus crushing of the middle class, destruction of industry after industry after industry. >> you know what you described? my home state of connecticut. >> or illinois or new york. >> california is having this problem that connecticut is having. everybody is focusing on general electric threatening to leave. small businesses are leaving. a realtor told me 18 clients put their houses on the market since the second mass tax increase. >> what happens when big government, big labor and big business get together republicans and democrats alike

are guilty of this. it is why people are sick of politicians. every election cycle we hear great ideas for what we do and somehow they never happen. government has gotten bigger and bigger, more powerful for 50 years under republicans and democrats alike. it's why people are tired of it. let's quit talking and solve some of this. it is why i say i think we need somebody in the oval office who understands how the economy works and understands how bureaucracies work how to hold them accountable and who understands technology because technology is changing the world. >> you are talking about doing some pretty dramatic things. once bureiocracies are in place they are difficult to dismantle. how do you sell this to the public? how do you actually do this thing that you are talking about? >> a couple of big levers that have to get pulled to hold a bureaucracy accountable we have

to have zero based budgeting. we have to fire people who they don't do their jobs. remember the v.a. scandal people were outraged and a bill got passed that we can fire top 400 executives. we need to be able to do that across the government. i'm going to ask the american citizens like you here i'm going to go in the oval office in a weekly radio address take out your smart phone. i want to ask you a couple questions. do you think it is important you know how your money is being spent. one for yes, two for no. people do that for the voice. maybe we can do it for our government. do you think we can fire people if they don't do their jobs and are watching pornography all day long. why is that important? >> going pretty far here. >> willie geist is an important part and some people can be -- >> i get very upset about this.

>> the point is this. technology is a tool that can be used to reengage citizens in the process of their government and citizens will put pressure on politicians. politicians respond to pressure. given that pressure they can pass bills. let's go pass a bill for zero based budgeting. when you ask you vote one for yes. remember that. >> one for yes. carly fiorina. thank you, frank. i think we can toast to that. >> she is on a roll. >> congratulations. up next, another participant of last night's happy hour debate joins the "morning joe" happy hour. rick santorum is next. you are watching "morning joe" live from cleveland. how much protein does your dog food have? 18%? 20? introducing nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna and 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one.

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a lot of people are talking about defunding planned parenthood. i think it is time to do something more bold. i think the next president ought to invoke the 5th and 14th amendments to the constitution now that we know that baby is a person at the moment of conception. it is time we recognize the supreme court is not the supreme being and we change the policy to be pro life and protect children instead of rip up their body parts and sell them like they are parts to a buick. >> that was mike huckabee weighing in on the battle over planned parenthood funding and abortion rights. joining us now republican presidential candidate and former pennsylvania senator rick santorum. casie hunt rejoins us as well. >> we just had lindsey graham talking about how difficult it

was to debate in an empty arena. how bothered were you that you were the runner up number two guy from last time and you were stuck in the happy hour debate? >> well you know i have been pretty clear from the beginning talking about why we should have had everybody on the stage. i think if you saw anything from last night the happy hour debate was a substantive debate, really good people and there should have been room for everybody. the idea that the party would see that as a problem and try to limit certain people and separate people out and try to create two tiers i think is a mistake. >> doesn't it make it hard for you to break through? >> it's august. it's a long way to go. here is what i do know from being involved in these debates in the past everyone is paying attention to the killer sound bytes. the people in iowa and new hampshire are looking at

substantive answers to the questions and saying who is hitting on the themes i care about. i feel good that we addressed a lot of important issues and hit those themes very well. >> speaking of things that are important to you you ran as social conservative in iowa one in the end if not right away. donald trump got caught up in a question about his position on a abortion. do you think social conservative pro life voters can trust donald trump? >> i would say that if you look at how most social conservatives are going to vote they are going to vote on someone that they do trust. this is a primary. you don't have to take a risk. you have lots of different choices. >> would you vote for him as social conservative? >> i would vote for him over hillary clinton. >> in the primary? >> i would vote for me in the primary. >> good call.

>> duh. >> that's out on a limb there. >> so you won iowa last time and won 11 states and had a really good showing. what's different about your campaign this time? when people say here comes rick santorum running for president again. why do you think you will break through this time? >> the reason we broke through last time will be the reason again. there is no one fighting for working men and women in the country. the people you had on today talk about small business. i think small business is the engine to drive things. but just saying a rising tide lifts all boats everybody is going to be fine. everybody isn't find because millions of americans have holes in their boats. we have to make sure we have an economy working for everybody and the happy talk about growth, growth, growth. i put forth a plan that i call the 2020 perfect vision for america, a fair flat tax. it's 20%.

it's on business. we allow expending. we will create an economic growth but we are also doing things to focus in on what i believe is the important sector of the economy that creates -- the sector of the economy that will create opportunities for people to rise. the 74% of americans who don't have a college degree who are not doing well in the economy are seeing wages flat line. when ronald reagan took off there were 30 million people in manufacturing. there is 11 million today. that is the key to having a healthy. ask the folks here. ask the people in ohio and pennsylvania and across the industrial belt of this country if we have an economy that is generating jobs that are going to provide for families in manufacturing. we are not. we are not competitive. i put forth a comprehensive plan on how to get manufacturing back to this country and that is the message we can take to working men and women and saying we are going to grow the economy but we are going to grow the economy so

you can do well. no other republican is talking about it. no other republican is talking about the impact on immigration. donald trump saying we are going to be tough at the border. every republican is going to be tough at the border. even jeb bush will be tough at the border. the question is will you be tough here at home to take care of american workers? there is nobody calling for reduction in the amount of immigrants. we have had 35 million immigrants come in the country. more than any 20-year period in history. almost all are unskilled workers coming in and holding wages down. no one has called for a reduction except me and i have done it in a targeted way. >> the issue of funding planned parenthood, this $500 million that they get every year from the federal government has come up in a big way. some say it is worth shutting down the government to strip them of their funding. should the government be shut down if planned parenthood? >> that is a decision of barack

obama if they want to stand by an organization founded by someone who wanted to eliminate the black race. they started by dehumanizing individuals. they believe certain people are worthy and other people are not. if you look at what planned parenthood does today they dehumanized the child in the wound. they said it is a blob of tissue. it is obviously they don't value and respect that little child in the womb. do we want to put your hard working taxpayer dollars in support of an organization who is that callus and has that much disregard for human life? i would say we are better than that. if that organization wants to go out and pros -- >> should we shut down the government over it? >> i would make the argument that barack obama has to make that decision if he is going to stand up for that organization. should republicans say we are not going to allow our taxpayer dollars to go to an organization who does such callus and

barbaric things to little children? you absolutely should. >> you didn't hedge. >> where do you go next. >> off to iowa next week for a solid week. hopefully lineup our 99 counties in the next 30 days or so. >> great to have you on. thank you so much. coming up the breaking news on the economy. july jobs report is due any moment. we will bring you those numbers next. we will be right back with much more "morning joe" live from cleveland.

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we have breaking business news right now. july job numbers just released moments ago. let's go to cnbc's dominic chu. >> in line with expectations. 215,000 jobs for this past month here in july. that's in line with expectations exactly. unemployment rate comes in at 5.3%. that's also in line with expectations. and then wage growth up two0.2.

. the job gains by private sector employment up by 205,000 jobs. the bulk of that getting done in the private sector. health care 28,000 jobs and the food service hospitality industry added about 29,000 jobs as well. the real weakness continues to be and has been the mining and logging and timber industries showing job declines of $4,000. here is where we start getting to interesting points. the long term unemployment stands at 2.2 million people and the under employed stands at 10.4%. that's the number of people that don't have the kind of job that they want as full time employment. back over to you guys. >> thank you very much.

5.3. what do you make of the numbers? >> the economy must not be that bad because carly fiorina said the question that wasn't asked last night was on the economy. you go back to 1992 when the bush/clinton debates that is all they were talking about. in 2008 it was about the economy. suddenly we are talking about a lot more social issues. we are talking about immigration and isis. we are not talking about jobs as much. >> the last number is the critical one, the one that says how many of us are not in the job we want to be in? how many want to be full time employed but are part time employed. that is going to be an underlying driver. the more that bubbles up the more you get to see how the folks begin to address wages, jobs and what this country looks like on that front in a year. >> we came out to cleveland actually a couple weeks ago to take a look at some of the differences in this city as

downtown is booming. the thing we heard the most in the neighborhoods that are struggling is the people are under employed and they used to be able to work that gave them health insurance but was going to let them get by. the people we talked to said there are jobs out there if you want to get them. you need more than one of them. that is what people are still struggling with. >> these are the issues to drive some really interesting conversations in the debates and the campaigns to come. what do the democrats think of last night's debates? congressman congressman get inspired with aarp travel. plan and book your trip online and get hot travel tips from the pros. find more real possibilities at aarp.org/possibilities. why should over two hundred years of citi history matter to you? well, because it tells us something powerful about progress:

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this isn't the waltons. it's a race for the presidency of the united states. i didn't see anything tonight that was out of bounds. it was typical jabbing here and

there and it was just fine. >> i think donald trump is getting into a good place on this. i just think that tonight i don't think he was ready tonight to raise his hand. i have been talking to donald trump. i talked to him yesterday. i talked to him last week on thursday or wednesday. i talked to him the week before. i think he is getting to a new place and i think this is new for him. he is in the center stage podium and has a lot of decisions to make quickly. i think going third party is a death wish. i don't think that is a secret at all. i don't see that happening. you can't win an election against hillary clinton unless you are running as a republican. >> that was rnc chairman reince priebus talking about last night's colorful debate. joining us now director of the

huffington post media group howard fineman and chair of democratic national committee congress woman debbie wasserman schultz of florida. good to have you both. >> you have a take on the debate last night. tell us about it. >> i think marco rubio has been talked about a lot and in the context of the quote colorful debate if you want a rebel and somebody who can go against hillary clinton and somebody who is an outsider by definition you can go with a donald trump or you can go with a young politician, a guy who hasn't been in the game for a long time who represents a new generation and who is an outsider by definition and that is marco rubio. >> you think marco won the debate last night? >> i don't think he won it. i think he did himself a lot of good. i don't think donald trump gave himself another booster rocket in the polls. i don't know that he is going to go down. analysis of donald trump is

always wrong. and people like push and walker establishment candidates i thought were pretty much nowhere. there were times where jeb bush was saying we need civility and respect in politics where i thought he looked like the guy who wandered into the wrong auditorium. >> what did you think? >> i felt pretty good that we increased the chances that the democratic nominee will be elected president of the united states. there is a reason that reince priebus didn't want to have 20 debates because when you expose america to the extremism that is the republican party today like they did last night it is evident that there will be a dramatic and clear contrast going into the general election and democrats are going to show off that we care about fighting for the middle class and they care about taking care of the wealthiest ones. >> you have your own problems with debates. you have two candidate ss who are

a little bit ticked off with the idea that they feel relegated to a second tier status or not given the opportunity to really engage your potential nominee hillary clinton in a debate. how do you deal with that on your side going forward? >> that is an attempt and a valiant one at creating drama where there isn't any. >> by me or them? >> by you. >> i'm not complaining about your debates, congress woman. your candidates are. >> we are going to have six robust debates. as we always do there will be organizations that sponsor forums. our candidates will have plenty of opportunity to showcase their view points draw contrasts between one another. our voters will have plenty of opportunity to see what our candidates are about. >> will socialist be allowed?

>> why change now? >> you guys are hilarious. >> so will you be excited if joe biden jumps in? >> we welcome any of the candidates that would choose to run as democrats. joe biden has been a remarkable vice president of the united states 36 years in the united states senate has an incredible record but has been through the most horrific tragedy that a parent could struggle. >> martin o'malley saying -- >> said it is an undemocratic process. >> he is a candidate for the president of the united states. >> we are thrilled that all of our candidates will participate in our debates and will all have ample opportunity to showcase. they may not like -- >> martin says it is undemocratic. what do you say to martin? >> i say he has chosen to

participate in the debates. we welcome him. we are glad all of them will participate and they will have plenty of opportunity to showcase differences. >> a lot of people who support hillary clinton think she would be an historic candidate because if elected she would be first woman president. a woman was here on the other side who can make that claim, as well. are you impressed by what you see in carly fiorina? >> no. not in the least. >> really? >> what's impressive about a woman who nearly drove a fortune 500 company to the ground and fired 40,000 people when she was ceo, whose stock dropped by 50% when she was head of the company and recovered after she was fired by 10%? and who claims that the president barack obama is crushing small businesses. the president pushed through 18 different tax cuts for small businesses. it's not surprising that someone who drove a company into the

ground doesn't understand what crushing business means. she crushed it herself. >> it was in the middle of the dot-com bust. >> she got fired. obviously her board of directors didn't think she was doing a good job? >> you don't think she would be a formidable candidate? >> steve jobs got fired. >> he didn't nearly run a company into the ground. >> he got fired twice. >> here is my question. i think that people in the current economic situation like entrepreneurs. i think the millennials are all entrepreneurs. they have no choice. they don't have old structures to go to. there is some appeal and somebody who understands the market place and lived in the market place and who doesn't look to government as the answer to everything. how does hillary clinton somebody like hillary clinton

and others who spent their whole lives in government deal with that kind of thing? >> if you look at jobs numbers, 215,000 jobs adding our 56th straight month of job growth thanks to democratic economic policies. democrats under barack obama before he was president the country was losing 750,000 jobs a month. thanks to a balanced approach that we had an election you cut spending, increase taxes on people who can afford to pay a little bit more and you move our economy forward like we have done. >> we have to go to break. what is your take on carly? >> i thought she was a big hit. and for the reason that i say. it's not totally accidental that donald trump and carly fiorina have a lot of buzz around them for the reason i said. the millennials don't believe government is the answer. i think people are looking after

a lot of government for people who understand the market place. it's always a balance between the two. i think that is a powerful force that the democrats have to deal with. >> that is why our economy has grown. >> thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. they tell us to go to break. up next we take a look at other big events. a star studded farewell for jon stewart after 16 years of hosting "the daily show." keep it here on "morning joe." my school reunion's coming fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro... when you go this summer, go to the new choicehotels.com

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i'll never forget you, jon, but i will be trying. >> good riddance. >> don't go. come back. >> jon, i'm being sarcastic. >> and just when i'm running for president, what a bummer. >> see you pip-squeak. >> what has 9 1/2 fingers and won't miss you at all? this guy. >> i'm sure you will be missed by somebody. >> a lot of things happening that keep me up at night which is why i relied on you to put me to sleep. >> i'm jon stewart. i'm dumb. i'm stupid. so long.

>> that mccain bit was so funny. >> what a night for jon stewart to step off the stage. >> part of me thought he might go live at 11:00 just to react to the debate but he didn't. watch the debate and switch to jon stewart. his legacy was on display. you had movie stars, tv stars, stephen colbert. it was an amazing outpouring for love on the set and the show closed with bruce springsteen showing up and ending jon stewart's run with "born to run." >> quite a legacy. >> to think one of the most influential figures in our popular culture of our time. he spawned a whole sort of industry and comedy journalism

that takes the news seriously and laughed at it. we will figure out here in the pub if we learned anything today at all. we'll be right back.

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what did we learn today? >> thank you fairfax hospital for taking care of somebody i love. which one is sarah? which one is jordan? happy birthday girls. >> how old? >> 17. >> happy birthday! >> what did you learn? >> cleveland is where it is at. >> it's all happening in cleveland. >> yeah baby. >> what did you learn? >> donald trump is capable when he said like what i'm saying but i'm not sure they like me. maybe he realizes this might be projection. >> the governor of ohio is the man to watch. >> you did. >> i learned that political analysis of donald trump is always wrong. >> yes, yes. thank you. >> come over here. tell us what did you learn today? >> i learned that johnny

football is not popular in cleveland. >> that's news. that's just news. >> that is news. >> we have to try that again. >> what do you guys think of johnny football? >> it's kind of bad when that's happening in your hometown. >> what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." >> stick around "the run down." is next. and good morning. first this morning fresh off their first primary debate ten republican candidates are about to hit another stage, this time it's in atlanta to kick off the red state gathering. donald trump has a new explanation on why he would consider a third party run.