is there blood in the water for donald trump? good morning. thanks forgetting up with us. i'm jonathan capehart in for steve kornacki. a conservative forum has taken back its invitation to billionaire businessman donald trump. details on that in a minute.

carly fiorina seems to be having a moment since her debate performance this week. we'll assess what's next for her. plus president obama begin as seven-day trip to martha's vineyard, likely a working vacation with much lobbying needed for the iran nuclear deal. a life sentence for aurora movie theater gunman james holmes. juror reaction live from colorado. we begin with donald trump versus fox news. a feud that's taken a dramatic turn overnight. trump frustrated by the questions he received in thursday night's republican debate not holding back in his attacks against moderator megyn kelly, trump calling in to cnn last night with these comments. >> certainly i don't have a lot of respect for megyn kelly. she's a lightweight. she came out there reading her little script and trying to be tough and be shock. when you meet her, you really

know she's not very tough. i don't respect her as a journalist. i don't think she's very good. i think she's jai-alai overrated. she gets out and starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. you can see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever, but she was -- in my opinion she was off base. >> quote, blood coming out of her wherever. the blowback swift this morning. donald trump banned from speaking the day at the red state gathering conference in atlanta, georgia, he was scheduled to attend. organizer erick erickson writing in a post at 11:56 last night, quote, i think there's no way to interpret his comment. in attempt at clarification, mr. trump meant whatever, not wherever adding his comments was inappropriate.

it's unfortunate to have to disinvite him. trump was slated to be the event's final speaker. erick erickson adding he has invited megyn kelly to speak in his place. kasie hunt is at the red state gathering and joins us this morning. casey, a very quick response from red state canceling dronal trump. has there been any statement from the trump campaign? >> reporter: they did put out a statement calling this another example of weakness through being politically correct. they also called erick erickson a weak and pathetic leader and claimed trump is going to be stopping in public somewhere other than the red state gathering today. jonathan, this is an example of trump not translating, especially in the south. the south doesn't really do crass especially when it comes to women. ericsson's reaction was pretty quick. >> kasie, has there within

responses from other republicans? is. >> reporter: so far you had carly fiorina on twitter saying there's no excuse for this. sean spicer was on the "today" show. take a listen. >> i'm hoping that mr. trump because he does speak off the cuff, doesn't ascribe to political correctness, was speaking in a way that was fully thought out. he needs to clarify that first thing this morning. >> reporter: a little tricky for the republican party. you have reince priebus saying running as a third party candidate would be a death wish for trump, but also a real problem for the republican party, and to have trump go rogue even if it's off something like this, is a potential problem for them as the party apparatus. we've all been wondering whether there would be a point at which trump would go too far with some of these comments. i think we'll have to wait a little while to see if it shakes

out that way. taking on fox news this way in a republican primary is a really dangerous place to be for any candidate, whether trump can break that set of rules i think still remains to be seen. >> kasie staying with us. let's bring in the panel this morning. kathleen sebelius, former u.s. secretary of health and human services, msnbc political analyst michael steele, former chairman of the rnc and jonathan allen, a reporter with vox. okay, i was going to be -- we were going to be talking about donald trump and his debate performan performance. these comments about megyn kelly, i have to go around the table, starting with you, michael steele. >> why are you starting with me? >> mr. former republican chairman. is this a fatal blow? >> it's hard to say if it's a fatal blow.

we thought john mccain comments were a fatal blow. we thought the comments past in the past were a fatal blow. i think this is an unnecessary -- i don't get the logic. okay, i'm using that term, of going after megyn kelly. megyn kelly is not running for office. megyn kelly is a reporter. we get the whole thing with the party and reporters, and candidates and reporters. this is a fight you don't want to get into. then to make it so personal, it really makes it harder for people i think going forward to look at this candidacy in a way that says, okay, this is something serious and i can take it legitimately. i think there was some bleeding that came from the debate on thursday night. i think this is now growing into a cause for real concern or should within that campaign because the numbers i think are going to reflect that problem that he's beginning to build for himself. kasie is absolutely right. in the south, no, this just does not play with a lot of

republicans in the south. >> kathleen? >> i hope it doesn't play with a lot of republicans across the country because i don't think it's the south who should be particularly offended by offensive comments against women. it should be everybody. i was appalled at his initial take on megyn kelly at the debate and the notion that donald trump is offended by what is a very legitimate question, do you say hateful, disgraceful things about women. he personalized and attacked her and not a single man on that stage, not a single man said, wait a minute -- called him out on that. he's now doubled down and, if i understand correctly, still no male candidate in the republican party has actually called him out on it. so i think he's got a real problem, but i think the whole party has a real problem when 53% of the voters are women and this is a very personalized,

very derogatory -- he goes after meg again kelly, after rosie o'donnell, after women in general. i think that's a huge problem. >> jonathan, before i get your reaction, kasie, to kathleen's point, have any of the other campaigns said anything about donald trump's comments? >> reporter: so far i have no, ma'am seen other campaigns respond directly. keep in mind this happened late at night. i have heard privately from several other republican campaigns very interested in making sure that i was aware that these comments had been made. so it's certainly something that all the other campaigns are paying very close attention to. we're going to hear from several of these additional candidates here today at red state. i'm sure as the day progresses, we're going to start to hear more from these other campaigns. i think there's been some hess tans to criticize trump from

some of the other corners, john kasich on the debate stage saying what donald trump has been doing has been productive. if you turn this raff that he's turned on megyn kelly on himself, it can be a dangerous place to be, especially for republicans trying to win over the base. i think there's a little shift here. a lot of people i've talked to since walking in this morning, they have been men who have said to me, i have a wife, i have daughters, and you don't talk about women like that. i think that's a reflection to the certain e tent of the southern culture. they would use the word lady to describe megyn kelly, for example. if they're going to have a serious conversation about winning this republican nomination, it goes straight through the south. donald trump is a manhattan businessman and that's come across here. >> he's a manhattan billionaire. jonath jonathan, let's get your reaction to all of this? >> number one, i think he's so angry because he did such a good job of making a point about a huge failing of his which is to

be respectful to anybody including women. so that's how i look at it. this is like the tantrum of a man who had a really bad moment on stage the other night and is trying to make up for it. the other thing i would say is at some point someone will stand up to him. we saw this with carly fiorina. if he said that in the bar to somebody, he would be picking his teeth up off the floor. i'm not advocating anybody go out and punch donald trump. but at some point somebody is going to do that at least rhetorically, and somebody who has perhaps greater standing within the republican party i think. so we'll have to wait for that moment and see what the reaction is. i think he lost during that debate question and lost the opportunity to win a lot of women voters. i think he's having an angry outburst. >> let's go back to before these comments to the debate. the conversation yesterday was just if he had weathered the

storm. we were listening to conservative radio yesterday regarding the reaction to trump. take a listen to some of the things we heard. >> the big loser was donald trump. and while he continued to say things in a way that americans will connect with, i think he showed himself as a bully, as very unpresidential. >> i think he dominated that debate last night. he might not have said everything i would have said and i think would have added some meat to the bones. i don't think there was any body blow delivered to donald trump. i just don't believe it. >> but the candidates did not make one move toward taking donald trump out. the broadcast network did. the candidates didn't. i'm not getting on megyn kelly for asking the question. this is a presidential debate. here is the point. not one of the remaining nine

candidates joined megyn kelly in taking the shot at trump. not one. >> okay. wow. you and rush limbaugh, you both agree. but that's a mixed bag from glenn beck and laura ingram and rush limbaugh. how do you think he did? i'll start with you, jonathan. >> how did trump do? >> yeah. >> i think he still appeals to the people he appeals to who are angry and in a lot of cases nativist and maybe in some cases sexist. i think he's brought out an eggly part of america in a lot of ways. i also wonder the extent to which some people who don't like the media and don't like pollsters are telling pollsters they'll vote for donald trump but wouldn't actually pull the trigger. >> you have that mind meld with rush limbaugh? how do you think he did? >> i agree with jonathan. part of his appeal is he is unvarnished. people like the fact that he's a

billionaire. they like his sort of pizzazz. but i think it goes -- there are sort of guardrails and he may have leapt over the guard rail by insulting 453% of the population and then doubling down on it. i think he -- insults for ones bg being legitimate. she's mean to me. this is tough donald trump who can negotiate with anything about anything, weeping on stage because megyn kelly asked a tough question. i found that amusing. to go after her in a very vicious, personal way seems particularly egregious. >> mr. chairman? >> i think what was amusing to me to listen to were the conservatives who went after fox the day after and almost immediately after that debate in the way that they went after trump.

i think there was some of that reflected in the comments of rush and others. but i think that the key thing was for a lot of conservatives, was the fact that -- and rush touched on it. you didn't have the other candidates take the moment and drive home the point and to really kind of sort of bring in this lion on the stage. i think that was the key moment that did not happen, and i think that bothers a lot of folks. what's going on now in georgia with red state i think is the further reaction to that, and erick erickson is like we're not even going to pretend and go down this road and push people to get it done the right way. >> kasie hunt, we'll see you again in the next hour. much more from where you are in atlanta. and we'll look at what we can expect from some of the other candidates speaking at red state

now with that first debate behind them. while the republican candidates spend the next few weeks campaigning across the country, president obama will be spending some of those weeks playing golf and going to the beach. the president along with the rest of the first family left yesterday for their summer getaway at martha's vineyard. it's a working vacation for president obama as he tries to win congressional approval for his iran deal, approval that got a bit more difficult this week after senator chuck schumer announced he will not support the agreement. nbc's hallie jackson joins us live from martha's vineyard. >> reporter: good morning, jonathan. the president taking a break for the next couple weeks up here in new england. he will certainly not be disappearing from the scene altogether. the white house not ruling out that he will be making some phone calls to try to drum up and lock in support for his deal with iran. this is getting some new urgency after senator chuck schumer publicly came out and said he would oppose that deal. for a couple of reasons schumer

arguing it's the worst of both worlds. on the one hand, it doesn't do enough to stop iran from build ag nuclear weapon. on the other, it eliminates sanctions he feels are effective against the country. a couple hoff house democrats over the last 24 hours have also come out saying they would vote to block this. that said, jonathan, not going to be enough to tip the scales most likely. we've seen top-level senate democrats including ciersten gillibrand from new york come out in support and most recently, bernie sanders saying he would support the deal as well. jonathan? >> my thanks to hallie jackson. still ahead, why some republicans' threat to shut down planned parcht hood may be losing momentum. next, more on donald trump. we'll talk to a dreamer about undocumented immigrants on thursday night's debate. he thinks it smells fine, but his wife smells this...

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people that i deal with, that i talk to say this is what's happening. our leaders are stupid, our politicians are stupid, and the mexican government is much smarter, much sharper, much more cunning, and they send the bad ones over because they don't want to pay for them, they don't want to take care of them. why should they when the stupid leaders of the united states will do it for them? that's what's happening whether you like it or not. >> that was donald trump thursday night, not backing away from comments he made when he first entered the race for president, labeling some undocumented immigrants from mexico murders and rapists. he also renewed his call for a wall along the border. >> we need to build a wall and it has to be built quickly. i don't mind having a big, beautiful door in that wall so

that people can come into this country legally. >> florida senator marco rubio, part of the bipartisan gang of eight that crafted the stalled reform package in 2014 poked holes in trump's wall plan. >> the evidence is now clear that the majority of people coming across the border are not from mexico. they're coming from guatemala, hon cuduras honduras. we need to build a fence. the problem is if el chapo builds a tum, we need to deal with that, too. you need other things to prevent illegal immigration. >> joining the panel to discuss how the republicans tackled immigration on debate night, activist erica and ola. thanks for being here. let me start with your general thoughts on how the republican candidates have been handling the issue of immigration. >> thank you for having me.

nice to see you. i was watching the deb waet and i wasn't really expecting to be offended by donald trump. i'm an undocumented mexican woman. so i couldn't expect anything else from him. i think for me watching the debate and seeing how the other candidates would react. unfortunately he's driving the rhetoric for the republican party when it comes to immigration. it's been very offensive towards mexicans, towards immigrants. i was hoping bush or rubio would stand up to that. i think they defended their views on immigration. bush said he would still think that undocumented folks come here for an opportunity. he went on to say he wanted sanctuary cities, to get rid of sactuary cities. it needed to pull back stronger

on that. >> erica, i was going to ask if there was anyone other than donald trump who had a stance on immigration that you could support or gave you maybe a ray of hope, but it doesn't sound like it at all. >> i was pleased to see bush would still say that he does think he cuss lick ki to come to the united states as an immigra immigrant. bush's wife is mexican. rubio is a latino. for me it was like at what point are they going to come out and say your comments are racist, very offensive to our community. no one said that. for me, i'm waiting for that to happen. if they want latinos to listen to the republican party right now given that they've done absolutely nothing for the undocumented community or immigrant community, they have to step up their game. >> erica brought up governor bush's comment about illegal

undocumented immigrants coming over as an act of love. michael steele, do you think that message will resonate with republican voters? or do you think he needs to make aa harder stand? >> i think he needs to stick -- the message the party up until recently always supported. we've always been a party of als simulation. it was something part of our package, if you will, when we talked about immigration. how do we make people who want to be here fully american? i think there are elements of this debate that certainly need to be addressed in an ongoing way, border security, using technology, using manpower. at the end of the day, you'll have to deal with immigrants and others as human beings. that is the aspect of the bush argument that resonates the most and the loudest. even though people don't think so within the party, i think it

does. you have a lot of folks banging a different noise right now. i think in the end that argument will win out. it was good for him to stick to his guns. marco rubio, stand up and go back to your position with the gang of eight. it was all good public policy to help these individuals who want to be here. >> go ahead, jonathan, real quick. >> donald trump has given an excellent opportunity for republicans to say we can have conservative policies without being racist. there's an opportunity for them to do that. they missed it on the debate stage. as we saw with the remarks about megyn kelly, you don't have to be mass sojistic. >> do you expect going down the road a republican candidate will do what jonathan said and say this is racist and here is what we need to do as a party for

undocumented immigrants? >> i do. i hope so. like i said, i was hoping it would happen at the debate with either rubio orr bush or anyone else. it hasn't happened. i think that would distance themselves big, big time from trump at this point. >> erica and ola, thanks for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> still ahead, will carly fiorina's performance at the kid's table be enough to win her a spot in the next debate? sentencing of the colorado movie shooter. what led the jury to spare james holmes from the death penalty? but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...

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the man who opened fire in a colorado movie theater three years ago will not get the death pen amendment. a jury sentenced james holmes yesterday to life in prison without the possibility of parole. holmes was convicted of killing 12 people and injuring 70 others during a midnight pleer of "the

dark knight rises" in 2012. nbc's scott plume joins us from centennial, colorado, where yesterday's decision was announced. >> reporter: yesterday's decision was actually a non-decision. the jury of nine women, three men could not come to a decision on the death penalty under colorado law that means life in prison. members of families of the victims were shocked, outraged, saddened, crying in the gallery. initially we were told none of the jurors wanted to talk about it. then a juror identifying herself only as juror number 17 said that the public deserves answers. >> i hope there will not be a backlash. we have to respect the jury's decision. there's nothing that can change it at this time. i feel that we really truly did our best to come to a proper

verdict. >> reporter: she said that there was a single holdout on the jury, partly swayed by the defense's argument that james holmes was mentally ill, deeply mentally ill and we do not e can you tell people who are sick. holmes will formally be sentenced in a three-day hearing august 24th. >> scott kroen, thank you very much. the fight to defund planned parenthood takes center stage. say with us. the fight to de parenthood takes center stage. say with us. much. the fight to defund planned parenthood takes center stage. say with us.

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♪ ♪ it took serena williams years to master the two handed backhand. but only one shot to master the chase mobile app. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. june of 2010, funded planned parenthood, it gets no tax money for the people of the state of new jersey. >> why doesn't anybody ask the meade yoo, are you willing to shut down the government to fund

planned parenthood? there's more outrage about a dead lion than there is about dead babies. >> republican presidential candidates continue to threaten funding for planned paurnt hood last night in atlanta. the health provider has become a big target on the right in the wake of videos released by an anti-abortion good, it's alleged planned parenthood is selling -- alabama became the late estate to cut off funds for planned parenthood in the wake of the controversy n. the day before, a vote to defund planned parenthood failed in the senate. talk of shutting down the government over the issue continues to grow. >> i don't like a government shutdown, but this is a clear case of totally improper use of taxpayer dollars. i have an obligation to the

taxpayers of arizona. >> senate majority leader mitch mcconnell who promised no government shutdowns on his watch threw cold water on the idea of thursday. >> this is a tactic that's been tried going back to the '90s frequently by republican majorities that always have the same ending, that the focus is on the fact that the government is shut down, not on what the underlying issue that is being protested is. >> again, that was senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. he makes a good point. michael steele, can the majority leader keep his caucus in line and avert a government shutdown? >> i think he can try. there's a lot of pressure something be done, something overt and public be done to draw attention to the conversation, numb number one, and to deal with the problems that perceived or real with the way planned parenthood operates and the questions

surrounding the dollars that come in from the federal government, where exactly do they land? how are they spent? and i think that part of the debate is a legitimate debate to have because, as we've seen from polling, yes, planned parenthood has support amongst the public, but there's also concern when it comes to questions like this, how those dollars are being spent, taxpayer dollars which federal law requires not be spent in that regard. >> kathleen,out want to jump in. i can see it. >> the law has been very clear for decades. there has been absolutely not a shred of evidence that the law is broken that any federal dollars are used for abortion. that's what this debate supposedly is about. no federal dollars for abortion, that is cooler. it's been the law. it's been in place for loong time and it continues to be in place. it's in place in every contract

left by hhs. this is about defunding the massive contraception services, primary health care, breast cancer screening that planned parenthood delivers to millions of people across the country, and without their clinics in operation, millions of women will not have a choice of health care providers. there is no federal money, none, zero, zip, used for abortion funding. >> you don't have any evidence to support that. and that's the problem. >> it's been investigated. it's been looked at. >> clearly not investigated enough because according to what we're hearing from the people running it, that there are legitimate questions being raised about how those dollars are being spent when it comes to fetal tissue, getting fetal tissue, et cetera. i think from my perspective, the reality is, you're getting federal money, let's throw it up in the books and do the audit and see where it goes, number one. more importantly, wooi doesn't planned parenthood separate out that function? why doesn't it take that

function, the abortions that it does and put it in a separate entity that can be privately funded. there is no question about federal funds going there. it has nothing to do -- then you have that whole keep intact and whole all those health care services they provide. secretary, you know it's on the books, it's not the same thing as saying two separate entities. >> she is the secretary of hhs. she of all people would know. >> it's been alleged for a long time. it's been investigated over and over again. the law is clear. there has never been any allegation that the law was broken using federal funds to fund abortion services. >> jonathan. >> for the planned parenthood folks and democrats having the abortion services provided by somebody that does 97% women's health care is a good thing politically, right? you can say it's about women eats health care, about contraception, and it's true,

about std treatment and all of those other things. so to have them lump together is good for the democrats. republicans would like to stop abortions. to the ex-temperature they can separate out the two things would make it easier to cross whatever that second entity would be, if you had a second separate entity. on the government shutdown stuff, ted cruz wants to shut down the government because it's raining, because there's sun outside. he wants to shut down the government. this is like a perfect storm for him in that he's got an issue of conscience for the republican side he can combine with shutting down the government and shrinking government. the truth is most of these services that planned parenthood provides are ones that almost everybody in the country supports. press cot bush supported it, jeb bush's grandfather. his father created title ten where midwest of the funding comes from. most of this stuff used to be completely controversial. everything else has to be seen

through the lens of one side fighting the other side over abortion and trying to weaken the other side's institutions. >> i would say, jonathan, the final thing about abortion services is the good news is that the numbers of abortions have dropped year after year after year. fewer women are opting for abortions, fewer younger women. the access of now 47 million women to contraception through their health plans is good news because they will then be able to engage in family planning activities on their own. i think that the very services that planned parenthood provides to the vast majority of people actually reduce the numbers of abortions, provide an opportunity for families to make their own choices about when and if to have a child. so it's somewhat ironic that if you canceled out the contraception services, if you eliminate the opportunity -- >> no one is talking about that. >> defunding planned part hood will do just that. >> no one is talking about that. i love that -- >> defunding planned parcht hood

would do just that. >> they're very clear about what they want to defund. they're not talking about defunding those services. >> defunding planned parenthood would do just that. >> planned parenthood can get money for abortion services from other sources. >> it doesn't come from the federal government. canceling federal funding is the whole thing. >> there are a whole lot of folks out here who are concerned and curious about that, and i think that from planned parenthood's position as well as from the national debate as a whole, then, look, let's get the clarity on it and let's see where the money goes. when it comes in the door, where does it go? what buckets does it go into and how much? >> this conversation obviously is going to continue on future shows. still ahead, the former politician who was apparently funnier than jon stewart at least according to one acquaintance who spent several summers with the two of them. one participant in the

so-called kid sail debate may not have been too thrilled to be attending. who won the so-called happy hour debate? we'll talk about that next. you know when you book a fabulous vacation cause the photos look amazing? but you get there and find out it's far from amazing. it's almost like it was too good to be true. that's like when you switch wireless carriers, and find yourself stranded with a frustrating, less reliable connection. if your network isn't working for you... come home to verizon and get 10 gigs for $80 a month plus $15 per line. come home to a better network. who thrives on the unexpected. ha-ha! shall we dine? [ chuckle ] you wouldn't expect an insurance company

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until you open every nuclear and military facility for real inspections, we are going to make it as difficult as possible for you to move mon i have around the global financial system. >> that was carly feerp rena, the former hewlett packard chief executive and the only woman running for the gop nomination. she won the 5:00 p.m. debate according to many political analysts, myself included. she seemed the most prepared and most serious about her candidacy. >> we have arrived at a point in

our nation's history where the potential of this nation, and too many americans iseing crushed by the weight, the power, the cost, the complexity, the ineptitude, the corruption of the federal government. and only someone who will challenge the status quo of washington, d.c. can lead the resurgence of this great nation. i will do that. >> his her strong showing enough to increase her standing in the polls? should we see her on the main stage at the next debate? kathleen, i thought carly fiorina did an excellent job in the debate compared to all the other guys, literally guys on that stage. what do you make of her? >> i thought she was smart and tough. i think it's difficult to run for president as your first elected political office. that's a big leap. and being in a campaign is a

tough slog. we'll see. she did well on the debate. i think she has good points to make. you're right. she is the only woman in a stage full of lots of guys. she did distinguish herself as being serious and thoughtful. i don't agree with a lot of her positions. >> and neither do i. >> but was she good in the debate with the happy hour kids? i think she did very well. >> like gulliver. i'll make the argument the republican party won because carly fiorina won. that is to say she's the only woman in the race and incredibly competent. i think it's going to be impossible to keep her -- maybe not impossible, untenable to keep her off the debate stage, particularly when you have this trump-megyn kelly thing going on. >> they didn't call it a happy

hour debate for nothing. everyone was drinking and no one was watching. that was unfortunate for the party. i've always had a problem with the way this was set up. i think carly fiorina's success proved the point. she should have been on the main stage thursday night. and the fact that she wasn't i think makes it very clear that for the next one she will be. i don't care what the damn polls say. she needs to be on that stage to have her voice amongst those others to show those men how to run for president because she has been the only one so far who has laid out i think an effective argument, whether you agree or disagree with it, whether it's on the economy, on national security or whatever the issue happens to be, and i think that voice, her vois is going ton an important element going forward. >> you talked about how no one was watching and having a problem with how this was set up. if you looked around the arena, there was no one in the room. and lindsey graham said, senator

graham said on "morning joe" that it was like having a debate with yourself in the bathroom. they had no one to feed off of. >> such a colorful analogy. >> you say something and you wait for the reaction and it didn't come. you're like, okay, let's move on. >> is there anything any of the candidates could have done to make an impact. carly fiorina made the most of it. she used that format very well. any of these other cats, is there anything they could have done? >> no. look, you can't -- you cannot do it the way you want to do it when you don't get a reaction. so you're just really talking. you're having a conversation. they're not even reacting amongst themselves that much. i thought she was the most effective of taking advantage of the room, taking advantage of the situation and that's because she was prepared and she has a sense of what she wants to do as president. >> who do you think did the best

job of going after hillary clinton? >> well, that's her main thing. >> she was good at it. >> we talked about, are the other debates going to be like this? so will you have now people sent from the big stage to the kids' table and will you have someone called up to sit next to their grandmother? it's very interesting, and i think not particularly helpful dynamic for the party or for the american people to try to figure out who all these folks are and then not have them actually be able to be compared side by side. it is a split screen that doesn't work very well. >> i wish we could talk more about this, especially you, michael steele. still ahead, a red state gathering with red meat for the base. next, a river runs yellow. stay with us.

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there is a lot going on this morning. let's get caught up on other headlines making the news today with the panel.

here is a story in "the new york times." wastewater spill in colorado turns a river yellow. i think that was the picture we showed going to break. look at that. >> yuck. >> why would they be in that water? >> that's a really good pumpkin soup color. >> and he's in a hazmat suit. >> his face is not covered. the e.p.a. caused the spill on wednesday while investigating a leak at an abandoned mine. 1 million gallons of wastewater containing led and arsenic have con tachl nated -- >> i knew it was obama's fault. >> of course it is. >> i knew you were going to say that. >> that would be interesting, the e.p.a. finding the e.p.a. that's really gross. >> will it catch on fire? >> we don't want that water.

>> 90 seconds left. washingt washingtonian, what was it like sharing a beach house with jon stewart. if you look in the picture, you can see jon stewart. and she said, the amazing thing is, jon wasn't always the funniest guy in the beach house. anthony weiner often made me laugh just as hard. jon is there on the far right. i can't tell which one of these dudes is anthony weiner. do you see him? >> you've seen other pictures before. >> i don't think you need to drill down on the picture. >> this is from the '80s. >> looking at the wrong picture. >> he is a funny guy. >> i don't think he's more funny than jon stewart, but he's a funny guy. >> more of this stuff next.

a full hour of nous and politics stim ahead including the drama unfolding in georgia this morning. donald trump saying he will still speak today after being banned from a republican conference. stay with us. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. ♪ they lived. ♪ they lived. ♪ they lived. ♪

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no apology from trump. thanks for staying with us this saturday morning. the first republican debate might have ended almost 36 hours ago, but the fallout from it including donald trump's interaction with moderator megyn kelly continues to reverberate. comments he made after the debate have cost him a spot at one of the most prominent conservative gatherings this weekend. we'll go live to atlanta for details and the fallout for this latest trump controversy. she may be the most

well-known contestant over on "the apprentice." amerosa, known by just her first name, will be joining us live on our state to discuss what she thinks about donald, the presidential candidate. while all the focus has been on the republican debate, we'll find out when democrats are square off. the schedule isn't zitting well with some of the candidates. donald trump has been kicked out of a republican voters' conference after new remarks about fox news's megyn kelly. presidential candidate donald trump calling in to cnn last night continuing a two-day tirade against megyn kelly for what he perceived as unfair questions in thursday noit's debate. take a listen. >> certainly i don't have a lot of respect for megyn kelly. she's a lightweight. she came out there reading her little script and trying to be tough and be sharp. when you meet her you realize she's not very tough and not

very sharp. she's zippo. i just don't respect her as a journalist. i don't think she's very good. i think she's highly overrated. she gets out and starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. you can see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her, wherever, but she was in my opinion she was offbase. >> new this morning, erick erickson, the organizer of the conference trump was scheduled to speak at today saying trump is no longer invited. erickson took the stage moments ago to explain his decision. >> if you haven't heard, i disinvited donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] >> i've got my wife here, i've got my daughter here, i have 800 friends of mine here. it's a family friendly program. if he's not going to clarify that this isn't what he meant, i don't think i want him at my

event. >> republicans at large coming out against trump. carly fiorina tweeting, quote, mr. trump, there is no excuse, and i stand with@megynkelly. let's go to msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt for more on the conservative reaction to trump's comments and what he's saying. kasie, what's going on down there? >> reporter: that's a great question, jonathan, to start off this morning. we do have a little more of a clarification from donald trump on his comments, although not an apology. he tweeted a few minutes ago, re megyn kelly quote, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever, then he writes nose. apparently he was talking about her nose in those comments he

made with don lemon. we did have erick erickson on stage talking about how he was on the phone back and forth with the trump campaign last night trying to get them to explain what did he really mean? did he mean what it appeared that he meant initially, and there was no claire kafgs, no attempts to apologize. that's why in part erickson says he's disinvited trump. he also went on to say after that clip he played he didn't want his daughter in the same room with trump. it was meant with a smattering of boos, but mostly clears. clearly some people here in this room who are interested in seeing trump. erickson did have to say he would refund the money for anybody who came here and wanted to see trump and had now been disappointed. >> kasie hunt in atlanta, thank you. donald trump over shadowing something of a victory lap for a speaker yesterday at the red state gathering, carly fiorina. fiorina receiving a standing

ovation as she walked on stage fresh off what many considered a standout performance in thursday it in's early debate, a label fiorina seemed proud of. >> well, i don't know. i think we kind of rumbled last night. what do you think? >> sometimes we tend to think of politics as a game, a sport, and everybody got ready for fight night last night. it kind of feels like a sport and a game. the only thing is, of course, politics, while it sometimes can be fun like a sport or maybe disappointing like a sport, it's not a game because politics and politicians and the policies they pursue impact every single person's life. >> i want to bring in arthur brooks, the president of the american enterprise institute and author of the new book "the conservative heart, how to build a fairer, happier and more prosperous america." the panel is back with me, kathleen sebelius, michael

steele and jonathan allen. arthur, let me start with you. we'll get to carly in just one second. i do want to get your thoughts on donald trump's comments last night? >> well, what can i say? it was ridiculous, and i think erick erickson did the right thing. that's all there is to say i think, right? >> i guess that is all there is to say. let me ask you about carly fiorina. she was lauded for her performance at thursday night's debate. she spoke yesterday at red state to a more energized crowd. do you think she'll be able to force her way into the next debate? >> i think so. what happens ordinarily, at this point in republican politics, you get people who are surging sort of month by month by month. we're in the middle of the first surge. we'll get later surges. she'll probably get one of them. she's talking the right way, talking about aspiration as opposed to just talking about anger. i think that's going to play really well. it should play really well.

jonathan, the main thing that has to happen if the republicans want to be successful, and you and i have talked about this a great deal already, the republicans need to be the aspiration party, the party of opt mim 34i678. th optimism. if they don't, they'll lose in 2016. if they dorks they can win if they come in and start offering solutions for the most vulable people who need opportunity the most. >> i've been reading your book and i have it right here. i'm curious -- you touched on this in your answer a second ago. i'm curious, if you recognize any of the tenets of what you've been writing about in any of the candidates either on that stage thursday night or over the past few days and to your mind, who won the debate? >> well, who won the debate, that's tricky for me. i'm looking at technically what's going on with each of them. i never have a good sense of that. i thought marco rubio did well.

i thought some of jeb bush's answers were very aspirational. scott walker was pretty polished. i thought the questions were really good, by the way, as well. when you look at them when they're doing their speeches on the stump, i'm hearing more and more talk about who is going to do the best for the people who have been left behind in the past decade in this country, a more optimistic vision of where the country can go, better sense of the moral consensus of how opportunity has to be at the center of our society so we don't treat liberals and we as conservatives don't treat liberals as the enemy all the time and there can be more flexibility. if we go in this direction, it can be a new day. i'm hearing it more and more from the candidates. i'm pretty optimistic about where it's going to go. >> you say you're hearing it more and more from the candidates. specifically from who? >> jeb bush, marco rubio, more and more scott walker. you'll har it more and more i think from chris christie as he starts to get more play along these lines.

who knows what we'll hear from the other candidates as well, but those four for sure. >> before i throw it out to the table, arthur, i have you here so i'll ask as many questions as you can. are you disappointed that topics like income inequality or childhood poverty or any of those things came up at the debate? >> i was disappointed. the key thing is not exactly what was asked. the key thing is for people to show leadership by pivoting to those issues. this is a really important thing for the presidential candidates to do. look, you're going to be asked what you're going to be asked. you'll be asked about social issues and things that are divisive and things that tend to be pessimistic. your job as a leader is to pivot what matters the most. child poverty, people left behind, a foreign policy based on an optimistic vision of american leadership around the world. if they can't pivot to those things, they're not gong to look like leaders. if they do, on the other hand, americans will respond. >> jonathan you've been champing

on the bit. >> there's an optimism gap, like a problem in that you have republican candidates predicated, particularly jefb bush and chris christie, predicated doing something for the middle class on 4% economic growth a year throughout their presidency. that's insane. that's not going to happen. what they're saying is let's turn to the middle class, lower income workers and help them once we've got the 4% growth. if the 4% growth doesn't happen, then they don't benefit. so i think that's a problem with the aspirational talk without backing it up with some policies that talk about how you do targets and benefits to folks basically on the losing end of a huge income and wealth disparity. >> i also think you've got a dynamic where millennials this year are the largest population in the united states. they've exceeded the number of baby boomers. they're also the most economically challenged generation we've had.

a lot of them emerging from school with big debt. they are struggling in this economy. no conversations about that. governors on the stage have slashed higher education budgets in their states, and that causes more tuition increases to fall on students and parents. there's a little bit of a gap in reality versus aspiration. i think it's one thing to talk about things. i think what they do about things is very different. i would agree with jonathan that, if you predicate everything on unrealistic economic growth, but also you heard everybody on stage basically doubling down on increasing the size of the military. so if you look at the federal budget, if you actually grow the military to the point that some of them were discussing that they would like to do, where does the money come from and how do -- the math doesn't work very well. >> i think all of that is exactly right. that gets into weeds of policy. >> exactly. >> you're exactly right.

you cannot promise what you can't deliver, but that's politics. so we know that. i think to arthur's key point, and this is what i love about his book and heilly recommend people read it, it is the aspirational aspect. you want to understand donald trump. it's more about the aspirations he is bringing out of people, someone who is being authentic and real and at least giving me a sense that they're willing to fight for something i believe in or something i want. so a lot of the stuff that both of you are talking about does not -- is not cheapened, lessened or unimportant. to arthur's point, you've got to begin to turn fraes phrase, to bring people's attention to the idea that we will and will do better. we can be better and grow from there. then you get into the policy because that becomes real important. then it's a guns butter argument. >> you touched on donald trump. i want to go back to this morning's headline about donald trump. new reaction from gop presidential candidate chris

christie telling the brody file that trump should not be in presidential politics saying, quote, i like him. i think he's a good guy. i think he's got a lot of skills, but i just don't think for this. i think he's not right for this. and that was yesterday. jonathan? >> how can you call him a good guy while all this is going on? no, he's not. he may do some good things with his money or whatever. at the end of the day, he is driving divisiveness in america, an anger, a hatred in america. he's saying sexist things, saying anti immigrant, anti hispanic things. this is not somebody who should be praised. there shouldn't be a real caveat there where he likes the guy. he just wants to win donald trump's voters. >> but understand, when erick erickson made that announcement, it wasn't a round of applause from everyone in the room. there were also boos. that's the tightrope these

candidates are going to be walking on. as much as we can sit around and go after donald trump and say he shouldn't say this and shouldn't say that, there are people out there who still want to see him. they still want to hear him, and that's going to drive him and motivate him to stay in this race. >> i think that's the issue. if you have candidates who sell their soul to try and get the voters of donald trump who believe in some of the things he's saying, hateful, anti immigrant, haitful against women, calling everybody stupid -- i have a 3-year-old grandson who is scolded by using the word stupid. that is not how he's being raised. you have a grownup on the stage who is basically calling every human being who disagrees with him stupid, lightweight. that's just offensive to people at large. he should be called out on that. >> right. as i said, i think his comments are morally objectionable. arthur, let me bring it back to you. in terms of talking about

aspirational qualities of the candidates that chairman steele was talking about, one person who didn't come up in any of our conversations was ohio governor john kasich who, as i'm reading your book and listening to governor kasich, to my mind he's someone who comes the closest to what you're arguing for, the conservative movement and the republican party should be moving towards. >> he hasn't broken through into the front line yet. but if he does, assuming he does, he could do really well because he's doing exactly this. let me address just for a second the more progressive members of the panel who say the problem is not that republicans are not aspirational enough, it's that they can't do these things to which they aspire, juch as 4% growth. this is the class sive progressive line, republicans can't be optimists because they can't do the things they set out to do. more growth? of course we can get more growth. lifting people up through opportunity as opposed to treating people like liabilities to manage, which is what we've

been doing over the past eight years, of course we can do those things. give republicans a break. give them some space to try to do these types of things as opposed to dismissing their ideas out of hand. if we do that, liberals -- jonathan and i have talked about this a lot. liberals and conservatives can come together around the moral consensus of more opportunity for the people at the bottom, and then we can have a competition of policy ideas. let's not dismiss these things out of hand as impossible or that somehow republicans don't want to do these things. >> arthur, you have lit a fire at this table that i have to snuff out. arthur brook, president of the american enterprise institute, thank you so much for coming on the show. >> thank you, my friend. great to talk to you. still ahead, joined by a self identified trump whisperer. next, a republican presidential contender gives an impassioned defense of medicaid expansion. stay with us. [ school bell rings ]

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we have to end obamacare and we have to make our country great again, and i will do that. >> one of the best things we can do is get the government out of the way, repeal baup kaer. >> we meade to repeal and replace obamacare. >> the affordable care act has extended health insurance to more than 16 million americans and survived two supreme court challenges. republicans are campaigning the get rid of it once again. on capitol hill mitch mcconnell said republicans are poised to use a special once a year budget procedure to put legislation on the president's desk repealing obamaca obamacare. among all the attacks, one republican stood out for his strong defense of expanding medicaid under the new law. >> the working poor, instead of them having to come into the emergency rooms where it costs more, where they're sicker and we end up paying, we brought a

program in here to make sure people can get on their feet. everybody has a right to their god-given purpose. >> before we get to kathleen, because this is a kathleen focused segment, who obviously has a strong connection to the health care law, let's start with those comments from governor kasich. chairman steele, did he make the comments for the controversial medicaid decision? >> i think he did. unlike what we saw with mitt romney in 2012, he owned what he did. that you have to respect, agree or disagree with it, he owned what he did. he laid out why he did it. he did it from a policy standpoint. he did it from the executive role he has to play in governing over the people of this state. he also did it from a compassionate standpoint, recognizing that, you know, while i have problems with this policy and this may not be the way i would absolutely do it, i

cannot leave off the table the opportunity to help people, particularly our seniors, particular those who are poor when they most need that help. i think that's a very powerful argument for particularly someone to make like him, going back to our conversation with arthur brooks, that's the type of aspirational compassionate conservatism that i think the country will be looking for. i think kasich well positioned himself to make the broader argument. >> i see you kathleen, wanting to jump in. >> well, two governors on that stage, republican governors have expanded medicaid. chris christie also expanded medicaid in new jersey. >> he hasn't talked about it much. >> he does not talk about it much, but it is the reality. 30 governors, republicans and democrats have at least attempted a couple -- a couple of republicans have been blocked by their legislators. you two-thirds of the governors in this country moving forward.

actually it's 242 million people now who have health insurance either in the marketplace for medicaid based on the affordable care act. and i think, again, i agree with chairman steele. if you think about arthur brooks' aspirational issue, if you think about lifting people up, providing health care so they don't go bankrupt if they get sick, they can have access to mental health care which john kasich talked about or primary health care or make sure they can take care of their kids and their family and they become productive workers, i think there's something so morally wrong with leaving that program on the table and saying to the lowest income workers of your state, because of my politics, we're not expanding your health care. >> the big triumph of the affordable care act lies in that number you just mentioned, 22 million people now have health care. a new poll out this week finds people who got insurance through

the health care marketplaces are let's satisfied with their plans than people covered by their employer, medicaid or medicare. what's your response to that? >> i've seen that poll. i've also seen other polls that say 70% of the people who got marketplace coverage are very satisfied. i don't know what to believe. what i do know is that this is an opportunity for those people who didn't have affordable coverage in the workplace or who are too poor to actually even qualify for workplace help to have health care. it's been talked about by republicans and democratic presidents. it's finally the law of the land. is it the perfect bill? absolutely not. does it need to be fixed? you bet. but somebody needs to ask the republicans who stand up and pledge to repeal where are they going to get difficult dynamic scoring $137 billion that the congressional budget office just said repealed costs up to $500

billion which is the original score. nobody talks about that. health care costs are rising at the lowest rate in 50 years. medicare beneficiaries are taking advantage of that, medicaid in states across the country are taking advantage. we're seeing not only an expansion of health care, the largest drop of uninsured ever in the history of this country, bs actually the lowest health inflation we've ever had. >> here is one problem that's rearing its head. health insurance companies are seeking big rate increases for 2016. many people buying plans on the exchange are facing high deductibles. even with the tax credits, the cost of health care is still too high for many americans, and you talked about how the law is not perfect. how do you think the law can be fixed to respond to this? >> well, actually the initial rate filings are just that, initial rate filings.

as a former -- in one of my former lives i was the insurance commissioner. insurance commissioners across this country have an opportunity to look at those rates, to negotiate those rates and decide on the ultimate rates, and i hope they do. i hope they get involved and look at what the underlying trends are. these are brand new customers for the private insurers in this country. this is not the government takeover. this is the private insurance market. year-in, year-out, the ten years before the law was passed, double digit increases for people who bought their insurance in the private market. that's no longer the case. they have been going up at a much slower pace. there are some big rate increases by some plans in some markets proposed. people have choices that they have never had before. so they have a range of plans, they have a range of options, and i think that what i've seen preliminarily, there are no final rates in the market yet. but preliminarily, it looks like most people will still have very

affordable choices, again, that they have never had before and be able to ensure themselves and their families. >> i'm still stuck in my market. i'm stuck in my market. i can't get out of my market. so if my market is going up at a faster rate than the market next to me or the market across the country, i don't have the ability to put myself in a better market so i am stuck where i am. >> unfortunately, chairman steele, you're going to have to have that conversation during the break. still ahead, why bernie sanders will be speaking at one of the most conservative colleges in the country. next, ferguson prepares to mark the one-year anniversary of michael brown's death. a look at the protests that have already taken place this week. you show up. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts.

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a frg son police officer shot and killed michael brown last year. the officer was later cleared of any charges. but brown's death sparked weeks of violent protests in ferguson. eventually the national guard was brought in to help keep the peace. we'll have live reports from ferguson tomorrow morning here on "up." still ahead, fired by donald trump on the apprentice not once by three times. omerosa joins us in studio to give us her take on trump's campaign and whether his public persona meshes with what happens behind the scenes. next, the democratic national committee releasing their 2016 debate schedule, but some of the candidates are unhappy with it. we'll tell you why. stay with us.

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can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? while the republicans battled away at each other on the debate stage thursday, the democratic field was getting word of how their debate schedule will shape up in just a few weeks. the democratic national

committee announcing a series of six debates for the presidential hopefuls over the next year. the first taking place on october 13th. front runner hillary clinton's democratic challengers are unhappy with fewer chances to challenge her. >> i think it's a big mistake for the dnc to take upon itself the real of trying to limit the number of debates that the democratic party has. it's very undemocratic of the dnc to limit the number of debates that the democratic party holds. >> that former governor martin o'malley of maryland. kathleen, i'll start with you. hillary clinton is probably very content with the debate schedule. do the other candidates have a legitimate gripe here about wanting to debate more? >> the democratic national committee announced six debates, one a month going forward. there are five candidates who all will be on the stage. >> no kids' table. >> no happy hour debate, no

second tier, which means all of those candidates are going to get a lot more air time than probably any of the republicans until you get to very late in the schedule. i think to me six debates in one month at a time seems to be a pretty rigorous way to go about exposing democratic candidates to the american public. >> how many republican debates are there? >> nine. >> but nine with 147. >> by the time you get to six, seven, eight, nine. >> from day one you'll have everybody on the stage and they get a fifth of the time. >> we hope. but you go, martin, you go. >> jonathan, you wrote a book about hillary clinton. >> i co-wrote it. >> with army parns. >> who lives in your building. >> former building. but anyway, about her time in the state department, the e-mail

scandal continues to dog her. the "new york post," you take that for what it's worth, is reporting the fbi is investigating hillary's e-mails and saying it is a, quote, criminal probe. you think she's being hurt by all this? >> i do. i think it's hurting the question of honesty and trustworthiness. she's leading the democratic field by a lot, leading republican contenders and most of the american public doesn't think she's honest or trustworthy. i i'd love to get governor sebelius' thoughts, having been an obama supporter, curious what you think about that. i think it's hurting her for this reason. it show as pattern -- you look at this with the interesting relationship that huma abedin became a contractor and was paid by an outside firm and also being paid by the u.s. government, you see this pattern of running into a rule, running into a law and saying not is it legal for me to do this, but how can i do this legally?

what's the loophole i can walk through? what's the loophole i can sort of get around the spirit of the law? i think people see that. i think that's a problem for her going forward unless she can find a way to explain it or change the behavior. >> people see that. i was in north dakota, minnesota a couple weeks ago, weekends ago. there are people who are saying, we don't care about the e-mails. how do you explain that dichotomy? we're all sitting around talking about it. it's big, big news. out literally in the heartland in the middle of the country. >> we have the exact same conversation about donald trump. how many times did we see even in the new hampshire focus group people saying, well, we don't care about the bankruptcies. we don't care about all this stuff attendant to donald trump. the same is on the democrat side. you have people outside the oh cella corridor, i don't really care about that.

but it does translate to your point into something. clearly the trustworthy numbers and likability numbers are not where the campaign would need them to be. there is something going on out there that i think would be interesting. that's point one. the final quick point is, i'll be curious to see if those debates whether or not any of the other candidates start using words like trustworthy and whether they start using words like likability, not directly going after hillary, but making the point that we really don't trust this woman right here. >> real quickly. >> it is possible the american public will trust her to run the country but not trust what she says. the honest trustworthy questions are sort of a specific thing about whether they trust what she's saying. they may not trust what she's saying but trust her to be a good leader. >> i was going to say i think the polls continue to be pretty overwhelming. people understand hillary clinton is incredibly accomplished, incredibly knowledgeable, a very strong leader, well poised to lead this

country. to me at the pd of the day, that's what the debate will be about with the american public. is this the leader for the future? what are the plans, and back to the discussion we were having earlier, what's the aspiration for the people who are now in the big gap? >> teasing bernie sanders and the big speech he's going to give. he's going to conservative christian school, liberty university, founded by jerry falwell. the university says it's very easy for a candidate to speak to team who hold the same views. it's harder but important to reach out to others who look at the world differently. what do you make of this move. >> i think it's wonderful. i think it's what our candidates need to do. jeb bush said at the beginning of his campaign, i'm willing to lose the primary to win the general. i think that is something that applies across the aisle. i think bernie sanders is playing a little bit into that. he's going outside of his comfort zone, going into a space

where he knows his typical stump speech message will not resonate necessarily with a lot of the folks in that audience. but he's going there nonetheless. rand paul, going to hbcus and going into the community to strike up a conversation whether you like the outcome of it or not i think is what we need to see more from politicians who want to lead. >> well, i agree. we are one united states, and the notion i only talk to people who agree with me -- unfortunately i think our press commentary sometimes has been very divided in terms of views, i only watch with the people who agree with me and go to places who agree with me. i would agree strongly with the chairman that we need a broader conversation, we need diverse views and we need people to listen to one another. >> i misspoke in reading that quote. that wasn't from liberty university, but from senator sanders himself. up next, one of the most memorable contestants from "the

apprentice is here," omerosa will tell us what it's really like to go head-to-head with the donald. fresher harder and yeah, even on sundays. if that's not what you think of when you think of the united states postal service, watch us deliver. ♪ [ female announcer ] everything kids touch at school sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. you handle life; clorox handles the germs.

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or purchase with 0% apr financing. >> omerosa, you were the project manager. >> yes. >> you not only lost but got creamed. i've always been a big am race so fan, but you're fired. >> that was donald trump dismissing apprentice contestant omerosa, one of the show's most memorable contestants. she faced off with donald trump for not jun, but three seasons in the famed board room giving her unique insight into what the gop hopefuls were up against thursday night. live in studio, onset, omerosa. >> hi everybody. >> thank you for coming in. >> i like the intro for the

apprentice. i have to give my political background. i worked in the clinton white house, i worked with the dnc. as much as i love "the apprentice," there's much more to me than the board road. >> it's because of the board room you're here, your duelling with donald trump that you're here and it's because of the unique insights that all that experience gives you that we invite you here -- talk to us about donald trump. are you surprised by anything that happened on that debate stage thursday? >> i'm not surprised at all. that first moment set the tone that he was a true leader that could not be controlled, manipulated or bought. i have to disagree with critics who said he didn't do well. i thought he did spectacular. he has changed the face of debates. this is a new era of political debates. 24 million people. you have to look at this from a different perspective, it's like

watching "the apprentice," getting 18 to 20 million people. they're tuchbing in for donald and there's a different analysis and metrics. >> you're applying an analysis of reality tv. >> not reality. >> let's not just call it reality television has now taken over television. people want to see real moments and see life unfold in front of them, not scripted, real moments. >> on television. but a presidential debate, yes, it's on television, but we're talking about ten men standing on a stage who are on television talking about how they're going to lead the country and why people in that audience and watching at home should vote for them for president. >> what's the question, jonathan? >> the question is, do you think it's a good thing or bad thing that reality television and the ethos there is bleeding into presidential politics? >> bleeding into it.

when you have a big reality tv star as the front-runner for the republican nomination, there's no way to separate it. this is the new reality. donald trump is the front-runner, and you have to deal were thing that comes with it, his business side, him as a father, him as a candidate. that's what we're dealing with, not just the tv or entertainment side. he's going to have to answer policy questions. he's going to have to give his pox on serious issues. and he may also call people pigs. that's part of the trump thing that comes with the package. >> let's roll back the most infamous moment in that debate, the megyn kelly question. >> you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell. >> that was pretty funny, you've got to admit. just because he insults rosie o'donnell doesn't mean he dislikes all women.

i insulted piers morgan for five years, that doesn't mean i hate all brits? you have to understand the dynamic of celebrity fluids. i made a kaer career it. just because i insulted janice dickinson doesn't mean i hate all super models. you're making it way too complicated. he's selling the sizzle, not the steak. you're getting caught up on the sizzle. >> michael steele? >> can i just remind you that i also called the george w. bush candidacy as well. are you serious? he had a problem pronouncing basic words. let's not panic, folks. he became president. did he have problems pronouncing basic words? >> sure. but he did not stand on stage running for president calling someone out by name as a fat pig

and then later on going on to demean, belittle and denigrate the woman who asked the question, not just one time, but several times over now two days. >> if you want to get into this arena, and michael and the secretary will tell you this, you have to have a thick skin. that means for the moderator, candidates, the journalist. no one is off limits. >> i like to.out, i don't think we've heard from megyn kelly since she asked that question. donald trump, talk about having a thick skin, his skin is so thin, i could wallpaper my walls with it. >> everybody is trying to figure out why donald trump is having this kind of effect, why he hasn't fallen off the cliff yet.

it's because that authenticity, that realness, it's connecting with people. over time this is -- the secretary said he's running for president. she's absolutely right. over time, as we get into the fall of this campaign, that's going to settle in with the lerk tort. that's going to settle in. when they start making the conscious choice as to who they wa want. is this person in the oval office to deal with putin, with ice sis, all these big issues. right now. the donald trump political obituary. he's not going anywhere. he has staying power. >> on that point and to what michael steele just said, when people start focusing in on do you want him in the oval office

negotiating with vladimir putin, given everything that you've just said here today, would you vote for donald trump? >> i'm a die hard democrat, come on. i have hillary clinton tattooed on my left arm. >> is that true? >> no, it's not true. >> just made the point. >> because that's some serious allegiance. >> no, this is great for politics as a whole. i think it's great for politics as a whole. to ask me if i would vote for him, i'm a journalist first and foremost, but i'm interested in watching this political process unfold. he's like tiger woods. when tiger got involved with golf, people who had never been watching or were involved or interested, they got engaged. that's what's happening with this trump candidacy. people just not interested in the republican party politics, with all due respect, now they're engaged. >> that's true. she's right. i've said it for a while. there's a disaffection amongst the base to the point of just anger, frustration with the

leadership, and he is that fresh air that's come in and said, okay, i'm willing to shake it up. but it will settle itself out. >> omarosa, thank you for being here. we'll be right back. hi. hi. hi. hello. hi. hi. hi. hi my name's josh. kelly. my name is raph. steve. my name is anne. tom. brian. krystal. and i am definitely not a robot. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom. whether it's for your business or your personal life, don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up. because we're here. we're here, we're here, and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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okay. so what's going on here, you're watching me, us at home, do this show. omarosa is doing a live periscope to your followers on twitter. this is a part of modern technology that is just over my head. >> you can follow me, too too, @omarosa. >> this is how we communicate and the political class needs to understand, cut the tv ads. this is where you need to be. >> so true. >> he has more followers than all of the other candidates combined. >> thank you to the panel this

morning. we have to go. kathleen sebelius, michael steele, omarosa. thank you for getting up with us. tomorrow morning, reaction to the latest blow on the iran nuclear deal from his colleague, chuck schumer. before that, you're going to want to watch "melissa harris-perry" up next. have a great saturday. no student's ever photographed mean ms. colegrove. but your dell 2-in-1 laptop gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie. that's that new gear feeling. get this high performance laptop bundle for only $399.

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this morning my question, why did trump just get dumped? plus, my interview with the attorney general 50 years after the voting rights act. and the real debate, drake versus mill. the reality of immigration versus the rhetoric of the gop. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. we begin with the first republican presidential debate. where, despite