this morning my question, why did trump just get dumped? plus, my interview with the attorney general 50 years after the voting rights act. and the real debate, drake versus mill. the reality of immigration versus the rhetoric of the gop. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. we begin with the first republican presidential debate. where, despite the positioning of donald trump right in the middle during the main event, there was still enough room for

policy issues like immigration to take center stage. the candidates while looking to distinguish themselves from the pack, largely took the tough stance on immigration supported by republican-based v ed pew po. scott walker was asked by the moderators to explain his flip-flop from his decade long position of supporting comprehensive immigration reform and a path to citizenship, and he explained his evolution was a response to what he learned after visiting the border. >> there's international criminal organizations penetrating our southern based borders and we need to do something about it, secure the border, enforce the law, no amnesty and go forward with the legal immigration system that gives priority to american working families and wages. >> donald trump got more specific, doubling down on his earlier controversial comments about undocumented mexican

immigrants. >> many killings, murders, crime, money going out and the drugs coming in and i said we need to build a wall and it has to be built quickly. we need jeb to build a wall. we need to keep illegals out. >> marco rubio took things a step further invoking the specter of mexican criminals but also claiming that not even a wall would be enough to keep them out. >> i also believe we need a fence. the problem is if el chapo builds a tunnel under the fence, we have to be able to deal with that, too. that's why you need annen t e entry/exit tracking system. >> louisiana governor bobby jindal didn't make the cut for the prime time debate but had this message for immigrants during the undercard forum earlier in the day. >> we must insist on assimilation. immigration without assimilation

is an invasion. we need to tell folks who want to come here they need to come here legally, learn english, adopt our values, roll up their sleeves and get to work. >> amid all the candidates' characterizations of immigrants as invaders, criminals and, quote, illegals, former florida governor jeb bush took a different policy approach to addressing immigrants as something else. people. >> i believe the great majority of people coming here illegally have no other option. they want to provide for their family. and there should be a path to earn legal status for those here. not amnesty. earned legal status. you pay a fine and do many things over an extended period of time. >> for the 11 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the united states, immigration is as much a humanitarian issue as it is a concern for national security or crime control. one year ago we brought you the story of one of those millions, rosa lareto, a married mother of two sons in tucson, arizona, a

community that has been her home since she first arrived in the united states on a visa in 1999. when she was pulled over on a traffic stop in 2010, she was flagged to border patrol and held in detention for 53 days. after spending years fighting her case in immigration court, rosa was ordered an issue of deportation in july of 2015. the night before she was to be deported she sought sanctuary at tucson's south side presbyterian church where as of today she has lived for 366 days. still awaiting word she will be able to remain with her family in the only community she has known for the last 15 years. joining me from tucson, arizona, the person who opened the doors of a safe space to rosa. the pastor of the south side presbyterian church. nice to have you this morning. >> thank you. >> let me start by asking how is

rosa and her family? >> well, these 366 days have been difficult. it's been a time of a lot of despair and disillusionment as we have continued to see policies that have been laid out by the obama administration and the department of homeland security not be implemented on the ground level by i.c.e. it's been a difficult time. it's also been a time of increased leadership on the part of rosa and she has felt an immense amount of support from our community here in tucson. and she has a lot of faith, still, that she will be able to see her leave sanctuary safely soon. >> let me ask you a little bit about that republican debate and some of what we heard. i almost hate to play this game but pause for a minute and let's listen to some more of what we heard from republicans, and then i want to ask you what they're getting wrong in this story. >> but we need jeb to build a wall. we need to keep illegals out.

>> is it as simple as our leaders are stupid, their leaders are smart, and all of these illegals coming over a criminals? >> including illegals, prostitutes, pimps, drug dealers, all the people that are freeloading off the system now. >> are those words that describe rosa? >> no, no, absolutely not. she's a little league mom. she loves her kids. she is a loving wife, a community member here in tucson. across tucson we have over 9,000 signs, yard signs, that say we stand with rosa. tucson is saying this is a valued member of our community, someone who should be allowed to stay here with us. >> part of what i think i find interesting about this immigration debate is how frequently we talk about undocumented immigrants and they are a great threat to the united states but rarely talk about the threats facing undocumented immigrants themselves and a new report by buzz feed this week

tells us that the visa program has actually helped to fuel these abysmal working conditions that look very close to human slavery. i'm wondering if in the work you're doing there you're hearing about work place abuses or other kinds of vulnerabilities that immigrants both undocumented and otherwise are facing. >> yeah, absolutely. our work is not just about sanctuary. we respond in a multitude of different ways to meet the needs of our community and neighbors. we actually have a day labor center that has been in operation at our church since 2016 -- i'm sorry, since 2006. and the reason we had to establish it is because we were seeing horrific abuses of day laborers, men who had come here largely from mexico to provide for their family back home in ways that they weren't able to do in their country of origin, and we were seeing abuses and abuses, wage theft, unsafe

working conditions, abandonment of workers on a job site far out. it's been difficult for us to see the way in which the undocumented communities here in the border lands have not only been treated poorly by employers but have really been living in fear constantly. and it's something that grieves us deeply. >> you use the word sanctuary, that you are providing sanctuary for rosa and other individuals you have provided sanctuary, but the language of sanctuary cities became a political hot topic after some very difficult events that occurred just a few months ago. so i'm asking, can you just distinguish that a little bit so our viewers will know the difference? >> yeah, absolutely. to begin with as a mother and as a pastor, we grieve and we pray for the steinle family in this time of great personal tragedy in their lives but, you're right. the difference between a congregation being called by their faith to practice the

ancient tradition of sanctuary and take into their house of worship an undocumented immigrant, to protect them while they begin a campaign to stop their deportation is very different than a law enforcement policy that a city may implement in order to give more -- to provide a more stable community. what we've seen through the sanctuary cities is that when you have law enforcement who are just able to act as law enforcement and not as immigration officials people are more willing to work with law enforcement, report crimes. women are more willing to comfort. and when you have law enforcement agencies, you have a destabilizing force in the community and you also have families like rosa's that was torn apart.

it was a traffic stop in 2010. it was the collaboration between law enforcement and immigration that ended her up in detention and ended her up with deportation order and she's now in sanctuary because of that ill conceived policy of collaboration between law enforcement. >> let me say thank you again to reverend alison harrington. and stay right there, everybody else. up next, trump gets dumped from a major conservative event as the tide turns against the front-runner. ♪ [ female announcer ] everything kids touch at school sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. you handle life; clorox handles the germs.

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during the 2012 presidential race more than 100,000 people signed a petition calling for a woman, any woman, to moderate one of the debates. it had been 20 years since a woman had done the job.

in the end cnn's candy crowley refereed one of the debates between president obama and governor romney. that's just a little context for fox news' megyn kelly's star turn at this week's republican primary debate. she earned high marks from many for her blunt questions of the candidates. one candidate in particular did not appreciate her forthright questions. here is what donald trump said last night on cnn. >> certainly i don't have a lot of respect for megyn kelly. she's a lightweight, and she came out there reading her little script and trying to be tough and be sharp. when you meet her she is not tough and sharp. she asked me ridiculous questions. you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. >> trump was supposed to speak this weekend at the conservative red state gathering in atlanta, but after those remarks on cnn eric erickson tweeted that he

had decided to rescind mr. trump's invitation. in a post last night on the website red state, erickson explained, quote, his comment, that's trump's, was inappropriate. it was unfortunate to have to disinvite him but i don't want someone on stage who gets a hostile question from a lady and his first inclination is to imply it was hormonal. it was wrong. casey hunt joins us now from atlanta where the red state conference is taking place this weekend. just how has the trump campaign responded? >> reporter: well, at this point, melissa, the trump campaign has responded with its typical bravado and he's tweeted several times over the course of the morning but has not apologized. one of the tweets seemed to suggest that he was talking about megyn kelly's nose when he said wherever, but that's not what he's been saying in private. erick erickson talked about this very topic and he said he had

been on the phone back and forth with the trump campaign trying to get some clarification, to say this isn't actually what everybody interpreted it to be. he said that the trump campaign wouldn't do that, that they had doubled down on their comments and he wasn't going to invite trump here today. and that's been met with some mixed reaction from the crowd. there are some people here who do really want to hear from trump and erickson faced a few boos from the crowd but he probably faced more applause on balance. to a certain extent these are comments that don't really fly in the south. you saw him describe megyn kelly as a lady and that's where some people are getting tripped up here. >> even a big deal to get disinvited from this event? i don't want to act as though it's a televised debate. it's not like cnn disinvited him from the next republican debate. what difference does it make to be disinvited from this? >> reporter: i characterize this as an important gathering of

particularly the tea party-poe cu focused wing, talks like ethanol, focus on financial issues. it's not necessarily a classic social conservative gathering the way something in iowa may be. i will say that senator ted cruz, for example, someone who is very popular with this crowd and i think you can interpret this as a little bit of a coming to the defense of some of the conservative candidates who have been drowned out by donald trump, those angry voters who are really saying right now in the polls that they back trump. those people are very important to candidates like ted cruz potentially to a scott walker. disinviting trump, i think, sends a statement to that part of the field. >> thank you to kasie hunt in atlanta, georgia. i want to bring in my panel on this. joining me christina greer, assistant controversy at fordham university and author of black ethics, race, immigration, and the pursuit of the american dream. juan manuel benitez, who is a

political reporter and host on new york 1, kate dawson, national republican consultant and the south carolina campaign director for governor rick perry, and rachel campos duffy, a national spokesperson. thank you all for being here. >> thank you. >> all right. i enjoyed megyn kelly on thursday night a great deal in part because, i mean, this show was part of, i think, many others who in 2012 was like, look, agree or disagree, republican or democrat, fox news, msnbc, could we have a woman's voice represented here? and then it just got ugly. >> to me what this looks like as a conservative is it shows how new trump is to the conservative movement and there are limits to his understanding of what conservatives are like. so if you're in a debate and you take a shot at rosie o'donnell, it's red meat, they love it. they don't like her. megyn kelly is the darling of

the conservative journalist crowd. every guy wants to date her. every conservative mom wants their daughter to grow up to be her. he didn't read the crowd well. there's a danger here and i agree with what erickson did, but there's a danger in making the point for him in that he said in the debate i don't have time for political correctness. this country doesn't have time for political correctness, and a lot of republicans and conservatives really respond to that. they're sick of all the oversensitivity and they're making the point for him. i think there's a balance here. >> it's an interesting question. i'm wondering why is this the bridge too far? mr. trump has said a lot of things that are offensive or troubling and things that are distressing to a wide group of people like his comments against senator mccain, right?

why these comments? why is that the bridge too far? >> the race really just started. i witnessed all of it. our primaries move like a nascar race. trump has all this attention looking for the entertainment value. i've done this for years. you can only put that teapot up so much. the comment about megyn kelly and the blood in her eyes is a bridge too far. >> it wasn't about the blood in her eyes that was the bridge too far. >> it's about the insensitivity that republicans have about women. they felt smear about the war on women in the last election and they're sensitive about it. >> so maybe -- i actually had a moment this morning about this

because, again, i don't share much in the world of political and ideological agreement with ms. kelly and she doesn't like me very much but, that said, the thing that i think is odd here is what i was appalled by in that comment was she's a lightweight. she's not too bright. she comes with her little words written down, but that isn't the thing people were mad about. if that were the bring too far, i'd be down with it. yes! get it! it seems to be the suggestion that a woman of childbearing age menstruates. we know women's bodies are so disgusting, so vile, so awful, though we talk about regulating them, we can't talk about menstruation because then, now, mr. trump, you have gone too far. and that actually worries me. >> i think the 17 candidates should worry us. they're so obsessed with women's bodies. we know donald trump is a race

bathing miss o.j. nis. i think i was more appalled when he's in the debate essentially joking that he has called women pigs and made similar comments in the past and none of his counterparts ever said, excuse me, sir, that's highly inappropriate. >> megyn kelly was very clear it was inappropriate. let's take a listen. and here we go. do we have it? do we have it? nope, we don't. we will wait. >> can i jump in here? i don't think for a second that the republican candidates or the republican party or the people watching or hearing these comments from trump are disgusting by menstruation. i think the first person to tweet about this was carly fiorina because she understands that. >> let me just say -- >> conservatives are sensitive

for having been unfairly smeared with the war on women and are not going to let it happen again by someone who is an outsider to the party. >> control room, we now do have -- let's take a listen and i'll come back. >> you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. does that sound like the temperament of a man we should elect as president? would you really let a mother die rather than have an abortion? how would you destroy isis in 0 days? if you believe life begins at conception, how do you justify ending a life just because it begins violently through no fault of the baby? >> well, megyn -- >> when did you actually become a republican? >> she was extremely no nonsense, completely capable of protecting herself in the world. this is a woman who doesn't actually need erickson's help. >> she is moderating the presidential debate. >> and moderated it quite well, thank you. i don't think -- because it

isn't -- this is a person who has said pigs, dogs, slobs. it really, literally was when he said this thing about blood coming from everywhere. >> the republican party was waiting for something to really give them an excuse to try to get rid of donald trump. i think everything started with that demeaning answer he gave to a question by megyn kelly at the debate. that's not what we see by the people in the audience. i think the one thing for republican voters, they're not stupid. one thing to be angry but you can be angry and okay with your stand-up routine on the stage. when you're on the stage with other candidates and i'm expecting you to discuss serious policy issues and you're giving me still that stand-up routine, then that's not going to work that well. >> let me unpack it a little bit. juan is right. >> they're going to make me take a commercial first. disease is tough,

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the republican presidential primary, an estimated 24 million viewers tuned in thursday night. as they finally took the stage together for the first of 11 planned debates. cleveland where 12-year-old rice was killed by a police officer last year. cleveland, where the police department is under a federal consent decree after the d.o.j. found a pattern of officers using deadly force unnecessarily. where the national conference was just held a few weeks ago. the republicans were hoping black lives matter wouldn't come up, they came to the wrong place. >> many in the black lives matter movement and beyond believe overly aggressive police officers targeting young african-americans is the civil rights issue of our time. do you agree? >> it's about training.

it's about making sure that law enforcement professionals not only on the way into their positions but all the way through their time have the proper training particularly when it comes to use of force and we protect and stand up and support those men and women and for the very few that don't, that there are consequences to show we treat everyone the same. >> that's right. that was megyn kelly asking about black lives matter and it's a start. i want to ask about a different question. when it comes to republican candidates and voters, what lives matter? based on the responses of the candidates, it's clear they believe potential lives certainly matter. >> i believe that's an unimportant child in need of protect. i've said many of times that unborn child can be protected and other alternatives will protect the life of the mother. >> i have advocate that had we pass a law in the country that say all human life is worthy of protection. i think that law already exists. it's called the constitution of the united states. >> and this notion we just continue to ignore the

personhood of the individual is a violation of that unborn child's fifth and 14th amendment rights for due process and equal protection under the law. >> so what about immigrants and women, transgender people who want to fight for their country? what about black lives? how many of those other lives are going to matter for the votes for the gop? what do you have to say? >> as a latino woman the pro-life issue is about brown and black lives. >> not on them. >> let's be clear. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. i hear you. that proposition matters. there are times in this country we know his ttorically reproductive justice has been performed on the bodies of women of color, of latinas, of black women, people have taken away the right to choose, have involuntarily sterilized. that's not what happens when

people are making a choice to terminate pregnancy. >> but you talk about historically, planned parenthood was founded by a racist woman who was for eugenics. >> in the united states of america. i love this country deep and profoundly because it is bigger than those who founded it. >> they target minority communities. we know that. it's a fact. it's a fact. >> they do not target minority communities. >> no. >> it's not -- >> our babies are being killed so let's be clear about that. >> it's not a fact that planned parenthood targets communities of color. planned parenthood often is cite ed -- sited, on a site, because they provide health care for women who cannot afford -- >> you call it health care. i don't. >> you do call pap smears --

>> that is such -- that's what obamacare was for. if they want to give money, if they want to give money for pap smears, for breast exams, there are plenty of organizations that we can give our federal dollars to. most americans, the vast majority, almost 80% of americans, want federal funding out of abortion. >> it is out of abortion. >> i know. but we know those funds are fungible and that's not true. >> so i appreciate it and i appreciate -- >> i'm just telling you how i feel. >> and, look, i appreciate it. this is a meaningful debate, right? it is a meaningful debate but part of what i'm asking them is given the intensity of this debate how we then didn't hear about, for example, 12-year-old tamir rice. >> and let's be fair. it's great that they got more than 20 million people watching the debate, but let's not forget who the audience of the debate is. the debate was for republican primary voters and the republican party, the same as the democratic party, they are trying to appeal to a certain

demographic. that's how politics is played. and in this case there were other more important questions for those candidates to answer that those primary voters want to hear the answers. >> there are some republicans who are thinking forward to the general election. >> it's too early. >> i want to play rand paul talking about -- because he doesn't kind of do it in an interesting black lives matter moment. let's look at mr. paul. >> i've also gone to chicago, i've gone to detroit, i've been to ferguson, i've been to baltimore because i want our party to be bigger, better, and bolder and i'm the only one that leads hillary clinton in five states that were won by president obama. i'm a different kind of republican. >> that's an interesting moment to me. i get the point, right, the strategy is win the primary first. also saying, hey, i recognize the primary is going to be insufficient. >> when you look down the road, republicans are very successful.

68 bodies all over versus 98 republican-controlled house and senate. over 32 some-odd governors. we're doing well around the country as republicans, but we realize that oir chances of winning a national election have diminished. we should have beaten president obama last time with the issues there. we didn't. you can't -- either base can't win. we understand that. this is a primary where they're going to talk about pro-life. you're going to put your stake in the ground and move on. you have to widen the tent. that didn't do any widening for us. it was a debate that was pretty tough. fox did a nice job. >> fox won. as we were saying earlie fox won the debate. >> and our party, trump might come out and get away with it. megyn kelly is a little different. at the end of the day when you unpack all of this, this is an election that just started.

we are six months away from the first vote being counted and i would contend trump's shelf life will diminish as we go further. >> the republican base gave us lots of interesting moments including this one. >> the military is not a social experiment. the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. the purpose is to protect america. i'm not sure how paying for transgender surgery for soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines makes our country safer. , but ended up nowhere. now i use this. the nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release technology, helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time. that's why i choose nicoderm cq. so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep them all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberyy apple scones smell about done.

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24 million people watched thursday night's debate. the biggest audience they've ever had. they wanted to introduce themselves, their background, to those 24 million people. and there was definitely, let's call it, a common theme. >> i'm proud of my dad and i'm certainly proud of my brother. in florida they call me jeb because i earned it. >> my dad came home.

>> i'm a pastor and evangelist. i will keep my word. my father fled cuba and i will fight to defend liberty because my family knows what it's like to lose it. >> well, megyn, my father was a mailman. his father was a coal miner. >> both my parents were born into poor families on the island of cuba. my father was a bartender and the journey from the back of that bar to this stage tonight, to me, that's the essence of the american dream. >> i can't even make fun because i almost always start stories with my dad and my mom. it is the way we introduce ourselves. i wonder what that tells us about what the candidates thought this debate was. >> they're trying to appeal to a base, the working class, older male, white male, or latino cuban in this case with ted cruz and marco rubio trying to send a message to the primary base but if we're talking about that

issue, he's not a real republican. >> he just ends up in the republican party because it's too far-flung but he's in a whole different category. >> isn't it beautiful that all of these men had fathers in their lives that made this kind of mark that evoked this kind of attention? i look at this -- i mean, it propelled all of them to run for the highest office in the land. we started the show talking about do black lives matter, i think dads matter and these guys are all testament of how important it is to have a father in your life and especially when we know the number one predictor of poverty is not having an active father in your life. >> i'm sorry. that's not quite what the predictor of poverty is. it's dual income households. i just want to clarify that the data is different. i think part of what's important and i think this is part of what you were emphasizing initially because i want to point out poor

dads matter. i don't want to reduce the role fathers can bring to the lives of any child. >> ted cruz brought that up. that was a powerful story. his father left. there was hope and redemption. he came back. the point of daddies they have to stick around. >> sometimes they don't. let's get back to the debate shs. all of them are introducing themselves to the republican party primary voters for the first time in many ways, right? you have to come up with an origin story so everyone is going back to this sort of 2004, my son of a coal miner narrative that we saw within the democratic party. >> that didn't turn out well. >> i'm always fascinated by my dad was a mailman, a coal miner. opportunities to be mail men or coal miners. >> and point out on the black lives matter movement, because i

think this gets lost in our discussion about, like, how important they are, the black fathers of the boys and young men who have been shot and killed by police beginning with trayvon martin, despite the fact his parents were divorced, had been and was and was right at the moment actively, lovingly parenting that child. while black fathers do matter in many ways, i have one that matters, they are not sufficient bulletproof against a system that -- >> a system that disincentivizes marriage. >> talking about their fathers the way hillary clinton is talking about her mother. >> they're saying these are the role models of the. >> you're putting the politics to it. some of the appeal of donald trump is the political correctness and he's not a politician. ben carson is not a politician. carly fiorina not a politician.

you introduce yourself as a normal person. that's the politics of telling your personal story. >> can i play for a second scott walker saying something about his normality because it was funny. let's listen to it as we go out. thank you to juan manuel benitez and to rachel duffy. up next a preview of my exclusive interview with attorney general loretta lynch. we have to listen to scott walker for a second as we go. >> i'm a guy with a wife and two kids and a harley. i was called aggressively normal. with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line.

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this week i was honored to be in the room with president obama, congressman and civil rights leader john lewis, and attorney general loretta lynch. we're in washington to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the signing of the voting rights act. i say commemorate and not celebrate because of this law which endured for decades is

significantly weaker than when president johnson made it the law of the land in 1965. the vra is section five which requires states and localities with specific well-documented histories of voter discrimination to have any change that they're proposing to their voting rules precleared by the federal government. basically these areas have to ask permission before they can make changes. for decades section five covered most of the former jim crow south. two years ago the supreme court deemed the voting rights acts formula for identifying which states and counties were subject to federal review unconstitutional. no formula, no section five. and congress still has not acted to replace it. all is not lost a. federal appeals court ruled that texas' voter i.d. law violates the voting rights act as it disenfranchises black and hispanic voters. while in washington, d.c., i had the chance to sit down with attorney general lynch and get her thoughts on the state of the

vra and the need for a new preclearance formula. >> it was a very helpful tool not just for the department but, frankly, for the country. obviously that's a loss, a blow but not a death knell to the voting rights act. we still review those actions. we now look at them in the context of the impact as well as the intent behind them where we have evidence that there's a discriminatory intent as we put forth in the texas case so our enforcement of the voting rights act will continue to be vigorous and it will continue to be strong and in-depth. we will do all that we can to protect this most fundamental american right. >> you can see all of my interview with the attorney general, lore tta lynch, tomorrw on "mhp" show. up next, the nation's ari berman, "give us the ballot." h, which saves money. they settle claims quickly,

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on august 6, 1965, president lyndon johnson signed into law the voting rights act marking one of the greatest triumphs of the civil rights movement. finally there was a law to combat the poll taxes and procedural twists used to bar minorities from our democracy. the victory wasn't the end of voting discrimination. 50 years later lawmakers are finding new ways to keep people from the polls through voter i.d. laws, reduction of early voting hours, and voter role purges. it's been half a century and the fight is far from over. reporter at "the nation questions and author of "give us the ballot." i love the book. you know this because i think it's very important -- >> the first blurb in. >> i read it cover to cover. help us through the book here so folks know what is the current landscape, the world of voting look like for americans right now? >> well, it's deeply unnerving

that 50 years after the passage of the voting rights actuary having a new debate about voting rights and voting rights are under attack. you look at the last four years following obama's election and all these states flipping to republicans in 2010. introduced in 49 states over 2011 to 2015. this is a debate, half the states passed new voting restrictions during that time. in the 2016 election the first presidential election in 50 years without the full protection of the voting rights act, these will be in place for 2016. places like wisconsin, virginia, north carolina. so we're having a whole new struggle for voting rights today. >> when you start talking about the states, that state doesn't look like the civil war map, right? if the supreme court is right, were they right the preclearance formula was outdated, outmoded?

all of that stuff happening in the middle in pennsylvania and wisconsin, that wasn't covered under preclearance. >> no, what the supreme court should have said is southern borne have moved north. so if anything we should expand the voting rights act. >> like the great migration in a slightly evil way. >> and the central irony when we needed the voting rights act the most, they said we needed it the least. kansas, ohio, pennsylvania, they are doing a different version of what was done 50 years ago in the south and that's why we need expanded voter protections and they should have said draw more expansive formula not a more narrow formula for covering the states. the whole wave of voter suppression we saw in the 2012 election was completely ignored by the supreme court. >> you mentioned congress there. were you in the same room when the president was speaking but the most intense person was representative john lewis. let's take a listen to him.

>> in spite of all the changes, in spite of all the progress, there's a deliberate systemic effort to make it harder and more difficult for minorities, for people of color, for low-income people, for students, for seniors to participate. >> so here is what i kept thinking, as i'm standing in the room looking, there's congressman john lewis. there's president barack obama. there's attorney general loretta lynch. how in the world is it that we're -- literally, what is the path that gets us to that level of political leadership being that diverse and a fight about voter rights happening at the same time that feels dissident? >> we do have all these people in the highest echelons of office who represent the voting rights act. barack obama is the ultimate culmination of the voting rights act. john lewis is the ultimate

culmination, and we're having a new attack on voting rights precisely because of the progress that has been made. all of these legislatures saw how obama was elected and they tried to target the very methods that led to this dramatic turnout, the most diverse electorate in american history in 2008 and then again in 2012. so it's precisely because of the progress that we're seeing the backlash as well that's happened throughout american history and is happening today. >> ari, thank you so much and thank you for the book. everybody should be reading this text and then also following your reporting because this is a struggle on going. you're covering the north carolina case and other cases around the country. up next, school discipline. should handcuffs be used to discipline an -year-old? and on a much lighter note, the beats that broke the internet. there's more nerdland at the top of the hour.

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welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. july marked 25 years since the passage of the americans with disabilities act. the law was created to protect people from discrimination and employment. transportation, governmental activities and public accommodation like public schools. and yet this week a video of an 8-year-old, a student, being handcuffed as punishment is calling no question how the ada has upheld or not upheld for children in our schools. according to a federal lawsuit filed monday by the american civil liberties union, a school resource officer handcuffed two small children both with disabilities as a means of punishment in covington, kentucky. as part of its case against the kenton county sheriff's office, the aclu released a video of sumner handcuffing one of the children last year. now the video was recorded by a school staffer and later obtained by the aclu. we'll show you part of the video

now. as you will see the 8-year-old is handcuffed above the elbows and sitting in a chair crying. the adult, you will see, is deputy sumner. i want to offer a warning that this content is very disturbing. >> you don't get to swing at me like that. you can do it or suffer the consequences. >> that hurts! >> now sit down in the chair like i asked you to. it is your decision to behave this way. if you want the handcuffs off you will have to behave and ask me nicely. if you behave, but if you act up you will not get them off. >> they remained on the child for 15 minutes according to the lawsuit which cited school records. the lawsuit says the boy was enrolled in the third grade. stood about 3 1/2 feet tall and we'd 52 pounds. a second student at the school, a girl, enrolled in the fourth grade and weighed 56 pounds, was

handcuffed twice last year allegedly. they have attention deficit activity disorder or adad and were being punished for behavior related to those activities. one child is latina and the other is african-american. the aclu argues that handcuffing the children violates the americans with disabilities act and in response the kenton county sheriff's department release add statement, deputy sumner responded to the call and did what he was sworn to do in conformity with law enforcement standards. the deputy put the children in handcuffs because they were placing themselves and other people in danger of harm, and that's what the book says to do. according to the department of education children with disabilities comprise 12% of students in public schools who make up 75% of students restrained by adults nationally. this case was filed a month after the department of justice informed georgia governor nathan diehl and attorney general sam

owens of a d.o.j. investigation into the state's adherence to title 2 with the americans with disability act which prohibits discrimination against people with disabilities and as we reported last week on this program the d.o.j. found that when georgia students with disabilities like autism or behavioral disorders share a school with other students they are physically separated from their peers. separate entrances, bathrooms and sometimes buildings. they are taught with computer based lessons rather than a teacher. what does this say? christina greer, assistant professor at fordham university, a restorative, kate dawson, south carolina campaign director for governor rick perry, and athea robinson mauk, ending the school house to jailhouse track campaign for the advancement project. and in san francisco matt cole,

director of the center for equality of aclu. so let me start with you. tell me why the aclu decided to bring this case other than the horrifying video that we just saw. >> the case wasn't brought because of the horrifying video at all. the case was brought because last year according to the estimate over 52,000 children with disabilities were physically restrained in school and over 4,000 of those children were placed in handcuffs. and it's our belief that the way you deal with emotionally distraught children, particularly emotionally distraught children with disabilities, you talk them down, you de-escalate. restraint is almost never appropriate and handcuffs are never appropriate. and we brought this case to rectify what we think is a big problem. >> let me ask a little bit after question. there's legal strategy here. in this case, the case is against this particular officer and the sheriff's department but i guess part of what i'm wondering is were they acting on

behest of the school? i'm wondering about the culpability of the school in this. >> i think they were acting at the request of the school. part of what we want to highlight is not only the inappropriateness of restraint for children with disabilities but what we think is a problem with putting police officers in schools and using them not for law enforcement purposes but for ordinary disciplinary purposes and this is another example of that. that's why we wanted to focus on the sheriff's department and their role in this. >> don't go away. i want to come to you on this because you're talking about the school or the jailhouse, or the jailhouse in the school house. i didn't even know about the ada angle when i first saw the video and it just is literally sickening to see this happening. >> it's incredible. we really need to examine the role of police in schools.

what we know is that police officers are not trained in how to address young people particularly young people with disabilities, and we have a fundamental problem. when i watch that video, i'm looking at an officer poor ly trained, at an officer that should never have intervened in the first place, should not have been there. that's something we need to address. why are they there? >> when you look at it, there are aspects from the placement of where the handcuffs are. if you have a child that tiny that the handcuffs are on their biceps but the officer saying you can't swing on me like that. you're choosing this. this is your fault: it's his fault he's being traumatized. >> we are going to expect that young person to be able to focus in class after dealing with that

trauma and we see this with black and latino youth. >> i'm wondering, now expecting this student to go back to class and to read and to concentrate and all of the students, because there's an aspect of fear that this creates because if this is -- i can remember being afraid to go to the principal's office. if you think that this might happen, how much more fear does that create for students? >> we're turning our schools into a place that's not safe. police have no roles. it's not necessary for them to be there. it heightens the fears and creates unnecessary tension and it's turning our schools into jailhouses. the things that students have to go through when they're coming to learn, there's no way you can focus if there's an armed officer in your school building. >> remember how they got there. i remember in the 1980s when we put officers there. in the '80s it was this sense they were outsiders that would

come in to harm us. the kids needed to be safe. school is usually a safe place to be. then they turn back to policing the kids. they police black and brown kids. when we look at the data, black girls are under attack in school. the rates in which they're arrested or have negative interactions with these police officers are actually astounding. >> i agree. >> of course. and sassy and mouthy and all of these things that teachers can't control and a police officer needs to intervene. i think it goes to the point not only do you not want to go back to class, you don't want to go back to school. >> right. at all. >> so people may not know your involvement in school but you've

been involved with a variety of issues. what do you see when you look at this video? >> what i see in the video, i represent a school in ohio that has caught these kids that are coming out. a guy should go down as a patriot. for the kids that were being dropped out of the schools. the largest graduating class in america is in ohio but they've had to go home to learn but not home schooled, with the new electronic technology. it's remarkable innovation, police in schools. they're there to protect you not to assault you. a teacher hit me and just about knocked me out because i couldn't sit in my seat and

continued to talk in class. i remembered it when you brought it up. the first time it flashed back to me, has this ever happened to me in school? the inner city schools, miami-dade and the other ones we know about, there will be outrage about this. the bricks and mortar system, pick them up on the buses at 5:30 in the morning. where is the outrage on that one? the kid goes to the street at 6:00 in the morning. >> i want to come back to you. >> how powerful is the ada going to be here? just talking about the voting rights act, the extent it exist s but has been deeply weakened. is the a.d.a. strong enough at 25 years old to actually make a difference in this question of policing in our schools? >> i think it is actually. the a.d.a. was weakened in a

series of cases but congress went in and toughened it back up in a number of ways. i think the a.d.a. will help us on the problem of kids with disabilities and cops in school. >> thank you so much, matt cole. stay with us. more on these questions of education. up next, why one of the largest school districts is eliminating out-of-school suspensions. ♪ hp instant ink can save you up to 50% on ink delivered to your door, so print all you want and never run out. plans start at $2.99 a month. right now, buy an eligible printer, and get three months of free ink with hp instant ink. available at participating retailers. the most affordable way to print. hp instant ink. he needed help all day so i adopted him.r. when my back pain flared up, we both felt it. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day.

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3.5 million public school students are suspended at least once in the school year. almost half of those are suspended twice or more. out of school suspensions correlate closely with lower test scores and higher dropout rates which have much to do with one's ability to make a living and to stay out of the criminal justice system. some students are much more

likely to be suspended than others. almost a quarter of black, middle and high school students were suspended, more than three times the rate of suspension for whoit students. and students with disabilities are much more likely to face suspensions than the general school population. so how to end the disparity in our school suspensions. well, you could just end out-of-school suspensions altogether and this year one of the largest in the country, miami-dade, is planning to do just that. joining me now from miami, florida, is alberto who is the superintendent of the miami-dade county public schools. all right. this is quite an initiative. please let me know how is it that the school system came to make a choice to end out-of-school suspension? well, good morning, number one, melissa. i think, number one, it's driven by common sense. we've reviewed research that shows out-of-school suspensions don't work.

the economical consequences of suspending kids without acknowledging the root cause of the problems that cause their behavior is significant. we know, as you noted earlier, that the disparities and the inequities in terms of out of suspensions as assigned to students specifically african-american students versus their counterparts is very significant and then we are surprised as to why graduation rates are disparate across the country. african-americans make up 16% across the country. 20% in miami. the reality is that in terms of outdoor suspensions nationally in the state of florida and miami-dade. what should be the best course to take? eliminate outdoor suspensions and bring about a redefinition of discipline that does not deprive the student of his

fundamental right to continue his or her education. >> this idea of bringing about a new understanding of discipline. you were recently invited to the white house to attend the rethink discipline conference. and it's interesting to me. we were just talking about policing in the schools. miami-dade actually has their own police department. can you explain that to me a bit? >> we do. we attempt to strike a fair balance between safety and security, protecting the schools, the students and teachers, and provide a social effective envelope that nurtures and protects the whole child. so our officers are trained not just to really dole out law enforcement and arrest kids, they're trained to interact with students and demystify the student/child relationship with law enforcement, something the rest of america needs to learn from. so they are part social workers. they are part police officers. much more work needs to be done. secondly, we have decided early on that putting kids out of

school is not useful. it is not grounded in good practice. so we created success centers where students that for a brief period of time need to be removed from that environment are still in an educational environment with digital c contempt, with social workers, with psychologists perfectly trained and able to detect the early signals of behavioral issues and actually connect them with the appropriate social services. doing something other than that is just inhumane. >> stick with us for a second, superintendent. i want to come to you on this. this is one set of alternatives. i wonder if there are other ways, language about restorative justice, gets away from discipline as discourse at all about what's happening between our students, our teachers and our school community. >> well, we need to bring the community back into schools. somehow we got mixed up in discipline being painful punishment. really discipline should be to teach or learn and these are opportunities to show students how to be productive members of

society. so restorative justice is an excellent community, a community based approach where it brings all stakeholders to the table, parents, teachers, administrators, everyone is a part of the problem and it isn't an issue between a victim and offender but how can we work together? what the school system is doing now, they place all the blame and we don't think -- there's always a reason for negative behavior. it's a manifestation of the deeper need and we're not taking time to look at the student and meet their needs with special education. these students have ieps, legal documents, that si what they need when they need it. if they're not being met, how can we punish them for acting out when we haven't given them what it says in the document that they need. so education is important. students, teachers, educating their rights so they can advocate for themselves and stand up when things are going wrong in the school system. >> we're seeing one with miami-dade but other place that is are showing us a different way to engage schools.

>> absolutely. we have seen a push in places across the country to shift away from zero tolerance policy approach and one thing i will say about the superintendent's announcement to end out-of-school suspension came about because of grassroots leadership on the ground, social change in miami has been beating the drum around ending out-of-school suspensions for over almost a decade now and asked for restorative justice initiative. i'm excite body this announcement because it gives the superintendent an opportunity to work with the community based organizations and put these kinds of models in place. >> i like this idea. when i say you go to the white house and talk about it, i love the idea you're talking about it but that actually the initiative for it comes from the community itself. >> there are so many people talking about this issue of alternatives to discipline, and they talk about it so much they believe they do something. we decided -- and by the way, a lot of folks talk what's needed in education not really

understanding much about it but they, too, believe they're part of the educational reform movement but that's a different story. look, a recognition of two things. number one, the state of florida we lead in terms of student arrests. we reduced youth arrests by 41% in four years. then we wanted to go deeper and we know that there are behavioral causes that lead to dramatic consequences that often populate the juvenile justice system that can be eliminated by routing out outside suspensions. this is not a cool board initiative singularly. this is a result of many community discussions led by youth organizers who have felt the pain of outdoor suspension and incarceration. we can do better. we just approved a budget that adds 60 counselors and social workers to schools without hiring one additional police

officer. we're shifting the investment in terms of more prevention and less satisfaction with investing on remediation or the consequence. >> thank you. we are definitely going to keep an eye on what this school year looks like for you. here in new york, thanks to christina greer and to tyler and athena. up next, to ferguson, missouri, for an update on events planned this weekend in the memory of michael brown. do you want to know how hard it can be to breathe with copd?

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this weekend the city of ferguson marks one year since the shooting death of michael brown by a former ferguson police officer darren wilson. events commemorating the day kicked off yesterday in the city and will be continuing through monday. earlier this morning a walk in mike brown's memory began at the sight of the shooting and ended at ferguson's norm mandy high school. today's events will end late

they are morning with a ferguson rocks concert and will commence again tomorrow with a moment of violence at 11:55 a.m. local time to mark the moment of the shooting. msnbc has been following the n anniversary remembrances. what have you been hearing this morning about how they're feeling at this time? >> reporter: good morning, melissa. they say this anniversary is an opportunity for both sides, state and local legislators or leaders in the activist movement to really assess what changes have been made since michael brown's death. missouri governor jay nixon was in town yesterday speaking to concrete actions made, notably a piece of legislation that municipal court reformed that effectively cut down the policies to line the city's coffers. they're still stalling on police reforms we saw a bill go through the legislature that would have

brought body cameras to police departments across the state. that stalled. there's another piece of legislation on the use of deadly force. that also didn't go anywhere. and so many of the activists and legislators i've talked to over the last day say they're frustrated to watch other red states like texas implement body camera legislation but the birthplace of the black lives movement can't do the same. they're asking for caution, for people to wait. these are long, deep-seated changes that need to be made. the events happening over the weekend are celebrating the birthplace of this movement and pressing for more change. >> it is hard to imagine that -- we have seen body cameras, which feels like a first step even in accountability, implemented across the country and they wouldn't be coming to missouri. >> reporter: many people are frustrated by this and they say that though the municipal reform bill was very historic, it also was low hanging fruits in the eyes of many legislators here who said this was a problem

plaguing for generations and it should have been addressed long before this. there was a leadership mix-up, a shake-up. we did see many leaders did step down in the wake of the really scathing department of justice report that came out in the springtime. but since then we've only had interim leaders come to power. we haven't seen anyone do any type of wholesale change. activists have been trying to oust the mayor of ferguson, and they tried to do a formal recall effort but were unable to gather enough signatures. and so really this is kind of the midway point of these systemic changes that they're trying to implement but i think activists are having a difficult time working from within the system and trying to figure out ways to disrupt it from outside. >> one year later the struggle certainly does continue. thank you to amanda sekuma and tomorrow we will have much more from ferguson as the city and the nation mark one year since the death of michael brown. tune in for that. but up next, the rise of nwa

with the stars of compton.

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next week the highly anticipate ed biopics out in compton will be out in theaters. it dates back to 1986 when rappers formed hip-hop's iconic group nwa. and the film reveals how through the music and the searing lyrics and artistry of these young men they decided to take a stand to speak up and to rebel against a particular kind of authority. yesterday i got a chance to speak with the lead actors from the film. son of the original nwa member ice cube. i asked him about portraying his father and the state of modern hip-hop. >> my father's philosophy on this whole thing is at a certain

point in the '90s all the media outlets as far as, you know, rap goes and a certain point knocked out the artists who had something to say or were speaking on political issues, if you will, and it turned into the money, music, and that starts to get played on the radio only and so those who want a career in music think that this is the model and that begins to really filter out all those groups that have something to say that are speaking to the people in a different manner. you still have artists today, kendrick is one of them. they have something to say. they're working to inspire. they're speaking on issues. they, as artists, find a balance. that makes them stand out. >> and that young man looks like his father. you can see the rest of my interview with the straight

outta compton cast at 10:00 a.m. eastern. next up modern day rap story only in 2015 do hip-hop beats start and end on twitter. but who won? is this a beef? i don't even know. oh larry, lawrence. thanks to the tools and help at experian.com, i know i have a 798 fico score. [score alert text sound] [score alert text sound] oh. that's the sound of my interest rate going down. according to this score alert, my fico score just went up to 816. 816. 816! 816! fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. so get your credit swagger on. go to experian.com, become a member of experian credit tracker, and take charge of your score. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because it gives me... zero heartburn! prilosec otc. the number 1 doctor-recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 9 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? by now you've heard about the feud that launched a thousa thousand. for those of you who have not been following breaking rap news, here is a recap. it all started two weeks ago a south philly rapper nicki minaj and this was tweeted to drake. stop comparing drake to me. he don't write his own raps. that's why he tweet my album because we found out. drake remained silent about the accusations for a few days. meek continued to make his case on twitter adding this on meek's

new single. he ain't even write that verse on my album and if i knew i would have took it off my album. i don't trick my fans. lol. man, you know you have some serious beef when you are lol at the end of your tweet. after four days the rapper couldn't hold back. he released two tracks. first the three-minute song "charged up" and then the freestyle many critics have credited with ending the feud back-to-back. neither addressed meek's claims that drake does not write his own rhymes but did attempt to take a few swings at his masculinity by referring to meek's opening performance for nicki minaj's pink tour. one of drake's back-to-back versus, lover and then you have to give her -- given the world to her is that a world to her or your girl to her. another line implies nicki is

the boss and that she hit him with a prenup. drake was not done. monday night during his appearance at the ovo fest, drake performed "back to back" in front of a production of one saying offering meek up for participation award. critics have agreed that the ovo performance shut down the whole debate and drake even posted his victory of him smiling with kanye west and will smith after the monday performance on instagram. it's all very entertaining. right, right! what is at stake in this new form of hip-hop beef that trigger fingers have turned into twitter fingers. the contributing writer and author, hip-hop educator and i love this title, the first

official u.s. hip-hop ambassador, damon young, editor in chief, very smart brothers, and freelance journalist and writer of penny for your thoughts. man, i love having you all here. let's just begin with this. if it all happens on twitter and instagram -- >> it matters. >> sure, right. but, i don't know, when drake is the hardest rapper in the game and with the fresh prince celebrating about it, it just -- i'm having a little -- am i too old? what is going on? >> i don't even know where to start. this beef or whatever you want to call a beef puts some energy into hip-hop because it's been lackluster as of late. >> and i do love back-to-back. it's a great track. >> hip-hop has been like, eh, lately. this has definitely given us a reason to listen to the songs. >> and my question, is he the hardest or the smartest?

>> he's definitely the smartest. >> he's an art of war technique. >> and the thing is meek mills is not equipped with the skills necessary to really perform well in this type of beef because he's not witty. he's not known for being clever. he's not known for having punch lines. he's not known for -- >> be careful. he might get you on twitter. >> you know who has the skills, is known for being clever, terribly fascinating as an emcee is nicki. because when drake goes for meek, he goes for him by saying nicki's better than you, she is. she is better than most humans, right? >> she's better than drake. >> right. what i want to see is the nicki/drake battle. it feels she can't because there's a masculinity of her partner associated with it. >> it's not her battle to fight.

>> just because it would be fun. enjoyable. >> she became the toy, the puppet in the middle. >> she's nicki minaj. she cannot be someone's toy. >> to me that's the only point meek should have made in his comeback. how is it a dis that i'm with a powerful woman? you didn't dis me by saying boss woman. so what? >> especially when drake's video with rihanna in "what's my name" was like a domestic bliss video, like the sexiest thing that happens and rihanna washes a wineglass. i'm down for black love and sexy kitchen wineglass washing but i'm just saying it was very bizarre. >> but it perpetuates this idea that a woman can't be strong, smart, beautiful, powerful, and attractive to a man. >> without threatening his masculinity. >> and a man's worthiness is based upon him needing to have

more than this woman. >> the thing to me was if drake had said that, i wish we all had reacted the way we did. everyone had been like, it would have fallen flat. >> a lot of the people that are on twitter and facebook, a lot of men who are getting at him for being with a woman more successful are tweeting from their girlfriend's laptop, their baby mama's wi-fi. >> hanging out the passenger side of their best friend's ride trying to holler at me. yes, they are. >> so let's keep it real. >> so let's go back all the way to the initiation, though, of the beef. i read it as the authenticity of voice. so it's about whether or not you write your own rhymes. part of what i'm interested in, in the world of music right now, does that matter anymore, this idea of having to write your own rhymes? >> in 2015 it doesn't matter at

all. >> it did for me and i came up in t and it should be damning but it's not. >> not now. >> i come from a cultural perspective hip-hop music and culture. that's what i like to think i represent. a lot of hip-hoppers i know never considered drake an emcee before now. drake got his emcee status right now. >> because he got into a fight. he was in a battle. >> he's an entertainer. instagram model, too. >> so are those well-earned creds? i like he's now shifted, that maybe now we see him different. is it well earned? >> i don't know if it's well efrnd. it was all strategy, all smarts. was it really lyrical prowess or genius? i had this debate all week with my partners. >> it's a testament of what's going on in hip-hop right now.

there's really nobody out there that stands out. i'm going to sing and rap. that's what makes me bigger than everyone else. >> there may be a new authenticity that is about that kind of strategy and acumen, right, with the transition of dre, with the transition of jay-z, but to be hip-hop is to be capable of -- to come out with back-to-back, part of what he did was to create something when you play that in a club, you have to play it at the club because it is a fabulous song. >> look at how he released it on the day of the baseball game against philly. >> jay-z is one of his models. so he took the jay-z models. >> maybe he noticed jay-z has a powerful wife, too. up next, rapper ice cube talks about the new school district.

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before i had the shooting, these feet grew up in a family diabetic of boys... married my high school sweetheart... and pursued a degree in education. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and she prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda-approved to treat this pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new, or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and i love helping first graders put their best foot forward. ask your doctor about lyrica.

it's classic hip-hop. i love it. i love the beefs. it's how, you know, hip-hop came no the forefront. i grew up with l.l. going at it. beefs is a part of hip-hop. it's great to see guys spar on the record. you know, the key is keep it on the record. >> that was ice cube, a former member of nwa, the 19 80s . that was the thing. and now apparently the rapper formerly known as most def will do their thing. i'm interested in that. what do you think of motown? what will that look like? >> it is the in thing now. >> i think there's a return to the art of them singing. it's happening slowly and

gradually and this beef between meek mill -- >> if you want to call it that. >> this battle challenge. it's not really a battle. >> it's a drakes -- if you look in the history of battle rhymes -- >> so for those -- stop! just stop! >> so help with that, right? because i know -- my mom is very committed to watching the whole show all the way through every saturday. so right now she is like what just happened? >> help us out, foud do a top five, what would they look like? >> l.l. cool j., cool mo dee. >> biggie/pac. and you can rthrow in jah rule

and 50 cent. >> but that was fun, though, they had -- >> it was a competitive thing. >> let me shift back a bit from the battle and think about the different things hip-hop is. i was struck -- i had an opportunity to talk with the cast of "straight out of compton" and i asked them, because they were -- here they were reproducing, young men who were children or maybe not alive during the rebellions in south central for which that that music was a sound track. is hip-hop providing the sound track that is necessary for the black lives matter snoouchlt the broadest sense? is it doing the work of helping -- there are a lot of young people in black lives matter who love hip-hop nnd n a variety of ways but i'm wondering if it's -- >> i'm a part of the web site that harry belafonte launch and there's an artist happening this weekend and the challenge is how do we put the -- like the next

battle needs to be drake, yo, what up? why aren't you in ferguson? why haven't you said anything about ferguson? >> which is different than do you write your own lines? >> so come at him with 16 bars challenging him to come with two -- >> but there have been emcees who have -- kendric's album, and aisha harris at slate just wrote a piece about how all right is the new black national anthem. you hear in the the club, it's a song that makes you feel better. >> even at the black lives matter convening that became like a big -- like kendric provided by a song for 5000 black people to put their fists in the air. >> i know you're reading my face because now we're back to where we begin which is drake is hardest brother in the game and kendric is the most political and hip-hop is dead so i'm going to have to have -- >> kendric is our krs-1.

>> well, then i feel sad zblrngts if kendric is your krs-1 i feel sad for your generation. >> but why? >> because he's not krs-1. >> to me we should celebrate the idea that hip-hop is ours. we should celebrate that hip-hop is pop music. hip-hop has songwriter, a.k.a. ghost writers. it has mariah carey ander er e vanna. >> i'm down then. if that's hip-hop, it's great. good job. >> we need to create spaces. there are talented artists that have something to offer and say and it's problematic when those artists don't get a platform to say one thing, when they exist. it's almost like the female emc emcees. nicki minaj is great, but i know 20 nicki menajs.

they are invisible women. >> when i heard from ice cube's song and we'll play this whole thing tomorrow, but apparently cube's analysis of the change in hip-hop is structural. not the emcees are whack, is that's the music industry changed it what it provided by space for. and i think your point about women emcees is clear. we hear this discourse about hip-hop is bad for women, misogynist misogynistic. i don't want to tell the boy what is to say or not say, but i want to hear more girl's voices. i don't need boys to put me on a pedestal, i just want to hear more women and whatever stories which might be uplifting or sexy or political or whatever. the i feel like i'm missing that. >> i agree and when you think of the genesis of hip-hop or rap music in general, it's hard to escape the misogyny. it is. it's not just an annoying part, it's a foundational -- >> right, it's the third pillar. >> right. >> but we have to be clear about why.

the world that we live in is a a misogynistic world. >> i would also say you can't extract it from, like, america, or wall street, or yes, hip-hop is not alone. >> and we have to continue to do the work to the help extract that. but as you get more mature and have this cognitive dissonance and you don't want to hear 2 chanz. >> what i love about your world, in your world as you get older your politics get more progressive. >> yeah. yeah. >> i'm just saying. >> and your tastes change as well. >> in many people's worlds as they get older their politics become less progressive so it's a nice way of think mag which you arty might constitute progressiveness and higher level feminism. i'm in into that. >> but it does start with labels does they have an edict to -- they have to make money so if it's almost like -- if it's not

broke, don't fix it it's unfortunate. >> jay-z is brilliant enough to sell what he seshlgs he can talk about clean water spin 16 bars and make that verse about clean water so hot, right? that we walk into the hood talking about i need clean water. i need to knock out chlorine in my water. >> it's about to get real in nerdland. thank you very much. we just had a clean water free style. [ laughter ] that's our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. i'll see you tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. we have a special show planned. we'll have extensive coverage in ferguson a year after the death of michael brown plus my exclusive interviews with attorney general loretta lynch and the cast of straight out of compton. they're not in the same interview, they weren't together. that would have been interesting. now time for a preview of

"weekends with alex witt." >> you're back in a half hour. can you bottle that energy and bring it back here. >> but i'm not going to wrap. i'm not michael eric dyson. >> we'll talk about the new statements from donald trump about his megyn kelly comments. we'll talk about whether this ongoing drama will do damage to the gop. is the debate system rigged? here from former presidential candidate gary johnson about how candidates are chosen for debates. in texas, the questions and outrage after an unarmed college football player shot and killed by a police officer. don't go anywhere. i'll be right back.

>> if you haven't heard, i disinvited donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] >> look at that response, another twist in the donald trump saga. the billionaire facing a backlash over his latest comments and just a short time ago he