house and i was protesting as a college student, so we're coming at it from different perspectives. but a lot of americans are with me. >> thank you for your time tonight and that vigorous debate. >> thanks. >> thanks. >> i'm michael eric dyson. "politics nation" with the reverend al sharpton starts right now. tonight on "politics nation," donald trump live and on the campaign trail. he talks to reporters this hour for the first time since the debate and his feud with fox news. also, bernie sanders takes california by storm. jeb bush tries to rewrite history on iraq, and dr. king as you've never heard him before. a new version of his "i have a dream" speech from the year before the march on washington. welcome to "politics nation." donald trump is due to talk to

reporters within the hour. the first time he's met with the press on the campaign trail since the gop debate. and with trump, there's always a chance things will get contentious. but one place that was very friendly to trump today, fox news. >> he's back! donald trump joins us on the line. donald, glad you're back with us and glad we're friends again. >> well, we're friends, dave, we've always been friends. great to be back with you. >> so i guess trump and fox have buried the hatchet? they're friends again. but trump isn't making nice with his fellow candidates. >> his numbers are not good, and of course there's tremendous dissension. they've been fighting. i liked scott walker, i've supported scott walker. in fact, i've financially supported scott walker, but his numbers have been very bad in wisconsin, and a lot of problems. i will take care of women like

nobody else can. certainly jeb bush doesn't even know what he's talking about. he admitted that the other day. believe me, that will be his 47%. his statement on women's health issues will take him down. >> and that's the danger of trump going forward. he's willing to say anything about his gop rivals. and now are hitting back. >> if you want to elect somebody who says people are bleeding or stupid or pigs, go right ahead. but i want to fix the country. i don't think we should reward vulgarity. vulgarity did not equate with insight. >> rand paul is trying to punch up and bring up his poll numbers. will trump be able to resist the urge to hit back? we'll see when the donald speaks to press later this hour. nbc's katy tur is live from the trump event in michigan. also with me are ed rendell and

shira center. but let's start with katy. you've been covering donald trump for some time. what do you expect from him at this event tonight? >> well, i expect him to address the controversy head-on. he's certainly going to address his comments to don lemon on cnn and he's going to say once again that he did not mean what people thought he meant and that he was just trying to move the conversation forward. he's also going to talk, i assume, about what happened with fox news and how they came back to him and asked him to come on and apologize saying that they'll treat him fairly from now on. i think he's going to hit the media like he always hits the media, saying they're not fair to him. and he's going to continue to do that because it continues to work for him. and supporters continue to say that they like him because he's speaking bluntly and they think he's an outsider, and they think he's frankly an underdog. >> katy, you've been talking to trump's supporters, after the debate, after megyn kelly

controversy. what are they saying? >> well, they're basically saying just that, that they like that he is not part of the political establishment. many that i speak with say that they just don't trust anybody in politics at the moment. i've asked them, are you a republican tried and true, will you stay with the republican field even if trump goes to the independent side. a lot are saying they'll follow him to the independent side. they say they don't feel inclined to any one establishment. i've asked them if there's anything that he could say that would make them stop supporting them. and one woman i spoke with said that the only thing that she thinks that he could say was that if he said a nice thing about president obama. that was one of the people i spoke with, but i spoke with a number. take a listen to some of the sound. >> i think one thing about trump, because he's been in business so long, he's going to find the people to do these things. he says i'm going to fix health care, get rid of the health care, he doesn't have to do it. he's going to find a person to do it.

>> i think donald trump is the only hope this country has. the country's in bad shape. it's upside down. >> in america we're too used to the political class, he brings that edge where he doesn't appeal to donors. he can be his own donor. >> and what we're hearing from them is that some of them at least would like to hear more from the policy issues. i spoke to a couple of young guys, 19-year-old guys saying they're looking to come here tonight and to hear him say some specifics on what he plans to do, specifically with job creation. these kids said they're open to the entire field, they'd even be open to bernie sanders or hillary clinton, but they do want to see what trump has to say. they like his ideas. when i asked, is it just because he's a celebrity. some people are saying, yes, it is name recognition. he's getting people to watch and getting millions for a debate. but because of that, he has an opportunity to advance a plan and show how he could potentially make things better.

so far, though, no specifics from the trump campaign on how he'll actually carry out any of these grand ideas that he's put forth so far. >> nbc's katy tur, thank you very much for your time tonight. another trump moment getting a lot of attention today, when the candidate was asked about a conservative columnist who called him, quote, fabulous whiner. >> i do whine because i want to win. and i'm not happy -- >> are whiners winners? >> i am a whiner, and i keep whining and whining until i win. i'm going to win for the country. >> let's bring in ed rendell and shira center. governor, what do you think? have you ever seen a candidate run to be whiner in chief? >> no, i haven't, rev. and everything about donald astounds the conventional political wisdom. i thought after that debate performance last week that his

numbers would plummet, and yet the first poll taken after the debate showed he was ahead of the field, 23-12 over i guess scott walker or ted cruz. he didn't seem to suffer at all. and 18% of the people polled thought he won the debate. how in god's name did he win that debate? >> you know, shira, let me bring this up because i think this shows some of the problem in this race, at least for some of us watching it. rand paul, he's the latest to go after trump. is it the only way he can get attention is by going after trump? >> no, i do think there are certain aspects of rand paul's campaign specifically that it's not doing so well and that's why he's going after such an easy target like donald trump right now. there have been many reports, at least one of which in the "boston globe" about turmoil amongst his campaign and the super pac. so yes he's picking donald trump and it's an easy target. but he did it at the debate

thursday night. he's trying to get his spot in the top three or four candidates in the top tier of the republican nomination. and it's looking really difficult for rand paul right now. >> governor, you know trump was also asked today about a report that he would pledge not to run as an independent. let me show you how he responded. >> i want to run as a republican. i'm leading in every poll. one poll came out yesterday, i'm at 32%. and nationally. and that's what i want to do. i want to run as a republican. but i do want to keep that door open in case i don't get treated fairly. >> treated fairly. i mean, what is his definition of being treated fairly? >> whatever he says it is. that's the beauty of being donald trump. he makes it up as he goes along. and you know, he fits the definition to what's happened lately. if he wants to run as an independent, he's going to run as an independent. the only thing that would stop him is if he decides that it's

just too futile and he might be embarrassed and that's a real potential. r ross perot got 19% of the vote. i don't know if donald trump could get that high a percentage even if the election is held now. the time will come. there will be several more debates. he has to start saying something substantive. i understand from what i've read he's working on a tax plan to simplify the tax code. he's got to have something to say other than just be angry and rail against the system. that will get him just so far. to get further, he's got put some substance in, meat on the bones. >> shira, let me go back to something the governor said, that even after trump's performance at the debate and his attacks on megyn kelly, he'll still leading in the polls. in iowa, he's got 17% with scott walker in second place and in new hampshire he's got 18% compared to jeb bush at 13.

do republican voters just not care about the offensive things he said? >> i think it is very clear right now that the republican party, especially the people who are taking these polls, hold do donald trump to a different standard than other political candidates. can you imagine if jeb bush or scott walker said some of the stuff that trump said? they'd be booed out of the race. they'd leave in shame in no time. i do think that his trajectory as a candidate, i thought he would make one big comment and he'd crash and burn and this would be the end of donald trump's real presidential bid for once. i can't help wonder if he'll see instead more of a slow decline. people are going to get some trump fatigue over the next few months as he continues to dominate the debates. as the governor pointed out, he won't release specifics on his policy proposals. have you ever tried to binge watch an entire season of "the apprentice." we get kind of frustrated

president not that i've tried. >> i have to admit that's not one of my pastimes. >> people will get tired of him in the end. it could be a political death by a hundred paper cuts or something. just continue to chip away as opposed to a grand explosion of a candidacy as we've seen with celebrities in the past few cycles. >> on the other side of the field, hillary clinton went after governor scott walker on education. listen to this. >> i think this is a major challenge, and i want us to address it. not one word from the other side. and you take somebody like governor walker of wisconsin who seems to be delighting in slashing the investment in higher education in his state. i don't know why he wants to raise taxes on students, but that's the result. >> now, this is the day after yesterday she went after marco rubio by name. is this suggesting that

secretary clinton considers walker or rubio the possible candidates she may face? >> well, she went after jeb bush the week before. now, i think hillary clinton's getting into campaign mode. and in campaign mode, you want to run against anybody but yourself. for too long in the early stages of her candidacy, she was running against herself. as someone who has run for office 17 times, rev, the hardest person to run against is yourself. you want an opponent out there to focus and contrast the difference in your policies with them. i think hillary's done an effective job in taking statements from the republican field. all of them, not all of them, but a lot of them. and contrasting her positions with their positions. and she's been feistier and more aggressive. and i think people are waiting to see that. i think she's hitting her stride by doing that. so i think, you know, walker is a frontline candidate, so is rubio, so is bush. but i think anyone who makes a

statement in the field that makes no sense, she's going to go after because she wants to point out the difference between democrats and republicans on seminal issues like education. you know, it was shocking the things that weren't talked about at that first republican debate. shocking. >> no, it really was. and you're right. you want to run against an opponent, not yourself. when you run against yourself, usually end up beating yourself. >> absolutely. >> ed rendell and shira center, thank you both for your time. >> thanks, rev. >> still ahead, donald trump speaks to reporters on the campaign trail for the first time since the debate. what will he say about fox? what will he say about his gop rivals? plus a republican candidate named bush is about to question withdrawing troops from iraq and mock democrats for trying to be peacemakers. sound familiar? also, bernie sanders pulls

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web bush says he's a different person than his brother. but tonight he's going to hit president obama for supposedly losing iraq, and he's sounding a lot like the man who got us into iraq in first place. is the return of the bush doctrine? stay with us.

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is it the return of bush doctrine? late today the jeb bush campaign released a video reviewing his foreign policy speech tonight. where he's expected to attack president obama and hillary clinton. >> this agreement is an incredible win for iron and a loss for the u.s. >> the united states has a huge role to play in the world. we are the leader of the world. >> tonight bush will lay out his vision in remarks at the reagan presidential library, and it looks to be an aggressive speech. according to excerpts tonight, bush will say, quote, who can seriously argue that america and our friends are safer today than

in 2009 when the president and secretary clinton, the storied team of rivals, took office? so eager to be the historimakers, they failed to be a the peacemakers. but the real question will jeb criticize his brother for starting the iraq war in first place? he's had a lot of trouble with the issue. it's almost become a punchline. >> governor bush, for days on end in this campaign, you struggled to answer a question about whether knowing what we know now -- i. >> remember, megyn. >> i remember it, too. >> we all remember it. and the nation remembers the folly of invading iraq. tonight will jeb bush confront that mistake or will he call for a return to the bush doctrine?

joining me now is john saltz, the chairman and co-founder of vote vets.org. he served two tours of duty in iraq. thank you for being here tonight. >> thank you, reverend. >> john, does jeb bush tonight have to directly confront this country's decision to invade iraq in the first mace? -- place. >> i hope he does. the whole speech makes me angry. he fumbled the football on the whole iraq question. you look who is financing the super pac, the same neo conservatives who started this war. he's fumbled the football so much when he's asked questions, this is a way for him to put out his vision and narrative and seize back control of where he stands in the polls. he can't answer the question on his own, so they can lay out his argument on iraq which is to try to put blame on secretary clinton and president obama, which makes me nauseous, to be honest. >> you know, we've learned from excerpts of his speech that jeb bush is expected to talk about

the surge. now, here's what he said about it before. >> isis didn't exist when my brother was president. al qaeda in iraq was wiped out when my brother was president. there were mistakes made in iraq for sure, but the surge created a fragile but stable iraq that the president could have built on and it would have not allowed isis. >> now, this has become a talking point for the right. you've served two tours there. does this make sense to you? >> that's not true, that clip you just showed. he said those words, but he doesn't know anything about what he's talking about. isis started the day we invaded iraq. it started the day that we sent the iraqi army home and we debaathized the iraqi government. and all these sunni insurgents were created to fight against the american propped-up shia government. that's the first issue. i think when you look at the core fundamental reasons that we left iraq, the iranian regime

controlled iraq after the invasion. and they controlled iraq because in the democratic process their parties won power. so they were never going to allow us to keep u.s. troops in iraq. so i give him a question, would he have kept them there and hung in the gallows like saddam hussein? i was one of the last advisers out, and al qaeda in iraq was still there at the end. they killed our soldiers when they would leave the gates. when i took a helicopter out of taji in november of 2011, aqis, we called them, drove a car bomb on to the iraqi side of the base and blew up the prison. they were always there. the fact that he doesn't know that they were still there at the end shows he's completely unprepared to be commander in chief and he's floating talking points about something he knows nothing about. >> are the gop or the right-wing trying to rewrite history? >> absolutely they are because this is an achilles' heel for them. they started a war and invaded a country. and when they invaded iraq, they handed the country over to the

iranians. and the iranian, you know, influence inside iraq guaranteed through the democratic process guaranteed they would control the state. they never wanted to work with the sunni minority. the sunni minority started things like aqi and isis as a way to represent people that weren't being -- you know, weren't being appropriately dealt with by a regime in iraq that was, you know, controlled by tehran. that's the issue. they created isis. they started it when they invaded iraq and it's continued today. >> when you look at the advisers, foreign policy advisers of jeb bush, they're some of the same people that advised his brother. >> they're the same morons. they invaded a country and pushed a democracy where 60% of people are going to vote with the iranians. what kind of answer do you want? you have a regime that beats up on the sunni minority. the surge never had a chance. it was never a strategy. it was punting the football to the next administration. we talk in the military about lines of effort and operations

and end states, all these doctrinal materiterms. tend state of surge was for political parties and how to go forward. we put seven brigades in baghdad. we controlled a certain security region of baghdad, that was our objective. that line of the effort worked. we provided better security. but we could never ever be more committed to the peace and prosperity of a foreign country than the indigenous population. even with the seven brigades, the iraqis still skdecided they weren't going to do anything. ridiculous to continue to ask american kids to fight and die in foreign countries when the indigenous population isn't committed to a peaceful solution. >> a lot of passion on this issue and riftfully so. john saltz, thank you for your time tonight. how a new discovery could change the history of america's most famous speech, i have a dream as you've never heard it. plus donald trump live on

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♪ [music] jackie's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. we're awaiting a live press conference from donald trump just moments before his first appearance in michigan as a presidential candidate. for nearly a month trump has led the field of 17 candidates despite the fact that he's

barely talked about his policies, and this morning he continued the trend. >> i will be so good to women. i cherish women. i will be so good to women. i will work hard to protect women. >> would you pass an equal pay for women? >> i'm looking into it very strongly. and i'll have a position on it in the not too distant future. our tax code is too complicated. and we can simplify it. i want to put h & r block out of business. you can have a fair tax or leave the system alone which is probably the sim pestest. i know what i want to do but i don't want to announce it yet. >> he doesn't want to announce any of his poll sicies. joining me now, a democratic strategist tara dowdell,

jonathan altar and jane tillman. i'm sorry, jane. thank you all for being here. jonathan, he's not saying much. i mean, what are republicans going to do when he finally does start talking policy? >> i don't think it's going to be that big o a problem for him. it's just a question of where his ceiling and his floor is. it might be the same place, i don't know if it's 10% or 15%. there's a certain percentage of primary republican voters who wants the strongest, toughest guy who is not taking any money from anybody, which is a very important part of this. they like rich candidates because they think they're not on the take. and he's gaffe proof. support is going to melt away because he doesn't have a position paper is just more of the wishful thinking that is really, you know, infecting the republican party now.

they actually have it in their head that this nightmare is going to end for them. it's not. it's going to go on for at least a year until the republican convention next summer. maybe further. >> well, jane, you've covered trump a lot, and does he ever talk policy? i mean, has he ever really said any specifics in any of the areas of concern to american people? >> he's covered a handful of prospective. every legal immigrant that crosses the border we're going to charge mexico a hundred grand. >> every legal immigrant -- >> illegal. >> illegal immigrant. that crosses the border, we'll charge mexico a 00 grand. >> policies that aren't set in stone. people don't want to hear them. if policies led the election, bobby jindal would be number one in the polls. but they're in it for the cult of personality. this is not about the issues and

the policy proposals he's going to come up with. >> because he's strong. this is the key thing. they know whatever policy ideas he has, they will be in your face and they will apply, you know, to the spleen. they will be something that, you know, people get from the gut. and the specifics don't matter. >> but to be strong, tara, would know that no heart is personality. if we go through this for the next year, don't we risk lowering the bar that is expected in a presidential race? i mean, this could have real implications going forward in terms of what we expect out of candidates. >> i would argue that the bar is already very low. when we look at the presidential primary, the republican primary last go-around. look at a lot of the candidates, many were not serious at all. they were out promoting books. i don't think that this is really inconsistent with other

presidential candidates in the republican primary. to echo what was stated, they're not demanding any policy from him. until that happens, until the people who support him demand that, he has no incentive to offer any policy solutions to anything. and people seem to be enamored with the fact that you said rich guy but also that he's a business guy. he's a business guy that's been a business guy since the 1980s. i think that is also playing a big part. >> jane, is it also looking on the other side of this, is it also a risk if he starts talking policy that he could lose some of his supporters because he like the gusto, they like the strength, and they may start hearing some things that all of them don't agree on if he starts getting specific? >> yeah, when he starts getting into the actual specifics, he has the opportunity to offend people. we've already seen him do that. he'll hit a critical mass where

he's offended so many people that he's running out of voters to appeal to. while he's just being bombastic and saying make american great again, you are not offending anybody. everyone is on board with that. >> and walking around with a, you know, a baseball cap saying that. it's easy. when you start laying out a tax plan or an employment plan or a plan around equal pay for women, jonathan, whichever way you go, you're bound to have some of your supporters saying, no, i'm not for that. >> but he's not going to do that much of it. when you ran for president, you didn't have a boring position paper on every single issue. >> but i had policies. >> but he'll have some. he won't go too far. he'll be careful not have ones that are too out of step with the republican party. but the point is because we're now in a kind of new system where all of these guys can stay in long past iowa and new hampshire because they have these super pac backers, so you

have multiple candidates. even if he only has 15 or 20%, even if he offends certain voters, he's still very likely i think to maintain his lead in the polls for quite some time. >> i just think it's amazing. when we ran, all of us had to take a position on iraq, what we were going to do about affirmative action, same-sex marriage. this guy is taking a position on nothing. >> you are also running in a democratic primary. democratic voters want to see policy positions. >> while we're waiting for trump, let's move on to another trub candidate. just two months after announcing a second run for the white house governor rick perry reportedly has stopped paying all of his campaign staff because his fund-raising has dried up. perry's campaign manager told the staff they are free to look for other jobs. it's bad news for the former governor who said earlier this year that his 2012 loss was a big blow.

>> listen, this was a very humbling experience for me. the fact is we go through humbling events in our lives, and that one certainly was. anyone who watched that campaign knows it was a very humbling time for me. but that's not necessarily bad. i judge people on how do you react after a failure? how do you pick yourself up and go forward. >> could he be the first candidate to fall? >> there are a few of them that are teetering around bankruptcy. but perry is certainly looking that way. i know it was reported that his campaign manager told people that they can start looking or should start looking for other positions. >> for other jobs. >> for other jobs -- i mean, positions with other campaigns. so i think that when you look at perry, he never escaped that huge blunder. it is dr every time people talk about him, they still play that. so that's just stuck to him. he's not recovered from that. and he will not recover from

that. >> but does this also speak to -- back to the trump point, jonathan, that you referred to because he was the first one to go after trump and it didn't work. >> right. then trump, who is a counterpuncher. he doesn't usually start it. but if you go after him -- and this is something all these candidates are worried about, he will deck you. what he said about rick perry's glasses, how that doesn't make him smarter, it was just a very short comment. that was it for rick perry. you can't unring that bell. everybody goes yeah, yeah, these goofy glasses he wears. even though trump has goofy hair, suddenly the glasses on rick perry are worse. he's just not getting any traction. >> jane, is trump manageable? does he listen to a management team? does he listen to advisers or is it all trump? >> do you think anyone can tell trump to be quiet. >> has anyone tried? >> i imagine roger stone tried

and that's why he stopped that campaign. longtime adviser been with trump longer than anybody. i didn't want to fight about megyn kelly, i wanted ta touk about core issues. he's on the media circuit still defending trump, so they haven't had too much of a falling out but trump is running his own campaign. >> he was fired, he didn't quit. trump's right about that. there's no way roger quit. >> i agree, though -- >> i know roger. if roger says he quit -- well, go ahead. >> the opposite, sure. >> but i will say this, when trump made his first campaign announcement speech, it was not supposed to be that long and it was not supposed to reference any of the things that were referenced. i know that for a fact. that speech trump went and said exactly what he wanted and completely disregarded what was prepared for him. that's exactly how he's going to conduct himself throughout this pain. that will be his achilles' heel because what he's not doing is a

field operation, which is -- that's just the bread and butter of any campaign. the media's great and he'll continue to ride that wave, but if it's not accompanied by a robust field operation, you just limit yourself no matter what. >> you're talking about him as a nominee or as a president. that's not going to happen. but as a factor who will shape this race, who will use what he calls his leverage -- >> right. >> it's a very big deal. >> oh, well, yeah, but i'm talking about his -- >> leverage to do what? what's the endgame? i knew when i ran i wanted to put out certain issues, make sure certain things were not ignored, have it on a national stage. what is his endgame? leverage to do what? >> i think donald trump actually things that if he keeps going out there and flies his jet around the country, he will be president. but in reality he's going to be an issue candidate. he's going to force the other candidates to the right on certain issues. it won't be a functional way -- >> but by accident because he's

not laying out policies. >> but he's tackling issues like illegal immigration and he says he's the only one that put that on the radar. when you talk to more moderate voters who say trump isn't the guy for me, they all say that they like what he's forcing conversations on. that's something republican base voters do like. >> i don't think honestly, from my knowledge of trump, i'm not certain that he cares about these issues. he's reversed himself so many times. for him this is about attention and influence. donald trump has proven over the past decades that there's nothing he loves more than attention. and building his brand. so i think that initially this started as a brand-building exercise. he started to gain momentum. now he thinks, wow, i can make it. but at the same time he likes influence. that's why he had the clintons at his wedding. he loves the influence and the power. >> -- jonathan, with his very offensive statement about women, about mexicans and others. hasn't he hurt his influence at

the post leaked, hasn't he hurt his brand, because there's certain people that won't be able to go near him. he won't be the wedding invitation of the year in many circles. >> that's true. it already wasn't the case. anybody with any class didn't want to have any association with him. anybody with any real class. but i think he probably figures, well, how many latinos and women play at my fancy golf clubs? not very many. >> but a lot of conventions go to his golf clubs. if he becomes the guy where people say i can't go to your golf club for my convention and politicians say i'm not crossing picket lines, he becomes something much less than what he was. >> i don't think he's so worried about this because this is such an ego trip. the word "egomaniac" doesn't really fit donald trump. he wants to be bigger than egomaniac. you have to go to megalomaniac.

everything always has to be bigger than it is. i remember i once went and interviewed trump on the subject of supersizing everything. you remember like starbucks, everything got supersized. and he said, look, you always want to be the biggest and the best that you possibly can. so this is, in his mind, a step up. >> but what happens when it's over? >> he never thinks that far ahead. >> leakedelections there's a da over. so while we wait, let's turn to the democrats and bernie sanders. "the washington post" reports over 100,000 people have shown up to rallies in recent weeks, 11,000 in phoenix in july, 15,000 in seattle on saturday, 28,000 in portland on sunday and over 27,000 last night in los angeles.

>> whoa! unbelievable. we began this campaign all of 3 1/2 months ago, and the momentum, as you can see tonight, has been nothing less than extraordinary. thank you for being here. >> and on monday, the senator scored an endorsement from a major union. national nurses united. the crowds are impressive. and yet the national media still streets him like he can't seriously challenge hillary clinton. jonathan, is it time senator sanders gets more respect? >> yeah. i think it is. he's going to be a factor in this race. he's going to win some primaries and some caucuses. the idea of hillary clinton running the table i don't think is plausible. he's going to go to that convention with some delegates. it's unlikely that he'll have enough to get the nomination, but he will be a factor. and i think you'll see him with a primetime, you know, speaking

role. he represents something real in the democratic party. the insurgent idea is a big one for democrats. he's speaking to economic issues that have a lot of resonance. and i think it's important that he get more coverage, but i don't think that means he needs to be covered as if he's a true competitor to hillary in terms of getting the nomination because the polls don't yet reflect that, and that's what the press is responding to. >> jane, you've covered him. you've talked about his rise, unlike trump, he is trying to put certain policies and he has laid out a clear reason for running. assuming jonathan's scenario ends up being true, he gets to the democratic convention with delegates, with support, primetime speaking slot. he uses it to push these policies. what does he do? how does he force mrs. clinton, if she's the nominee, in terms

of some of the issues and direction of the party? >> essentially for him to -- the crowning moment of this would be if he passes it on to hillary clinton and says, you know, she's adopted enough policy proposals and i think it's okay. we can endorse her, i support her. i mean, he speaks to these really core visceral issues about economic inequality and the game being rigged in favor of the banks and against the first year college student. i spoke to someone at the phoenix rally that you mentioned, and she seemed like a really -- she's a paradigm of bernie sanders supporters. i'm not politically active. i don't go to these things. i drove to get here and canceled my cable subscription to give money to bernie sanders every month. they turned to volunteers. they can really be an x factor in a race. but bernie sanders needs to evolve to make this -- to do anything more than, you know, just sort of crown hillary clinton with a couple of the

issues that he can force them. >> but is there a risk, and if he does that, that some of his fervent and more ardent progressive supporters feel that, well, he's just delivered us to hillary, that he's not getting enough? isn't there a risk for him on that side like it is for trump when it's over, does he have to make sure he gets so much that its clear that he ran for a reason and not just got all of this momentum and really only got a half a loaf of bread and that not toasted? >> well, i think, though, the point is with someone like bernie sanders is that his supporters are so fervent and are so ardent. so i don't see them deviating from him that much. i do think he risks disappointing them, some of them. but i do think when you have this type of supporters that he has that are so wedded to you and wedded to your ideas, i think they pretty much follow you. and i don't see bernie sanders,

he's been so consistent over the years, i don't see him compromising unless he feels that he has adequately gotten what he likes. >> he hasn't said a word critical of hillary clinton. it's been on the issues. he's already forced her to the left very recently on education and -- >> he's drawing the biggest crowds of either republicans or democrats. >> in those debates, they will debate the issues. he'll be to her left. and i think it will be fairly cordial. >> we'll see where o'malley tos. we're waiting on donald trump, but we're going to break. we'll come back, but we are waiting to see what donald trump has to say live good or bad, it will be huge. crack like nobody's watching. why? because it's red lobster's crabfest. and there's so much crab, so many ways. and with dishes like this luscious crab lover's dream or savory snow crab bake. i'm just getting started so hurry in and get crackin'

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we are still waiting for donald trump and his first meeting with the press and first appearance in michigan. but first meeting with the press since the gop debate and his fight with fox news host megyn kelly. tara and jonathan and jane are still with me. let me ask you something, jane. you had said in your covering him and being around him no one can tell him what to do and there's no real adviser that can move him either way. is there a fear around those around him that he may go too

far? it almost would seem to me you'd be living on egg shells around some candidate like that. >> you know, i'm not sure. michael cohen was one of his top sto sort of advisers but he's not telling him what to do. he's supporting him, helping him. >> but michael cohen, for example, scared he's going to mess up? i mean, if i'm with a guy that i don't know what he's going to do, i'm nervous right now he's on his way into a press conference, like you don't know what he's going to do. >> absolutely. donald trump does not behave like any other candidate does. a week before his announcement i asked his campaign for a statement about some campaign hire in iowa, you know, an operative that they'd hired. donald trump called me personally out of the blue not having been requested an interview, just to chat and say, i want to make america great again. what adviser would say, yeah, call a reporter out of nowhere and see what he asks. >> at least go over what you're going to say. jonathan, you called me

undisciplined. >> you know, in some ways, there is a little bit of a similarity. i hope you don't consider this insulting. between your role when you were running for president and trump's role in that it's a wild card. >> right. >> in the best sense of the word. nobody knows how it's going to two. it makes the debates much more interesting. they were much more interesting with you in them and with trump in them. it gives the opportunity for comic relief. you got off the funny lines in the debate. >> but the reasoning, tara, was different. everyone knew i was there because i didn't want to see the party continue in triangulation. i used humor because i wanted to play against this i was this mean polarizer. he does humor because he wants to make fun of people. and he's there not trying to pull anybody that's left out. he's a billionaire. he's not left out. so there's a reason. and not only me.

dennis kucinich had a reason when he ran. and it's different when you have a wildcard, yes. but at least the wildcards we had were in the deck. this guy is totally -- yeah. so the joker. and we don't know what deck he's playing with. >> right. and every week the deck changes. i do think that, as you mentioned earlier, i have to say i really really think he loves this. he loves the attention. and not just that, he likes to fight. he's feuded with people over the years. >> everybody. >> this is not new. it's just at different points in time he has a bigger platform so the feuds become more public. but this fighting with people is not new. this picking and sometimes he's the one that responds but sometimes he's the aggressor. and that has been a long-term thing with him and he revels in it. that's why it was so hard for him to hold back in that moment against megyn kelly. he wanted to unleash right then and there. >> i got to take another quick

break. we'll be right back. donald trump not only doesn't have an adviser, he doesn't have a scheduler that can tell him what to do. we'll be right back. we're waiting on donald trump. y you are surrounded, like a guppy in a shark tank. it just feels like, car salesmen want to sell whatever car is best for them, not best for me. there's gotta be a better way. ♪ as long as people drive cars carmax will be the best way to buy them. thankshow may i help you?s list. i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that.

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donald trump has still not shown at the press conference. he's about 25 minutes or more late. but i'm sure we'll see maybe not while we're on the air on this show, what he has to say. but i think that the fact that he has everyone waiting to see what he has to say is the story and the circumstance the republican party finds themselves in. >> i used to be really sick of trump. i just didn't -- i didn't want to see him on miss universe or miss america or whatever, i didn't want to see him on anything. i wanted the media to boycott him. the idea six months ago of us waiting around to see a donald trump press conference would

have, to use a donald term, disgusted me. now i'm real interested in what he has to say because couldn't happen to a nicer political party. they're getting what they deserve. they've created trumpensttrumpe. their own franken sign monster. >> thank you for being with us tonight. and i'm sure whenever mr. trump appears, we will go to that. today was the 50th anniversary of the beginning of the unrest in watts. i'll be live from los angeles tomorrow night. lessons that we should learn from watts to baltimore to ferguson and staten island. and we'll talk about that among other issues on tomorrow night. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. the trump show must go on.

let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. hillary clinton to pulverize republicans on women's issues. jeb bush goes back to iraq and rick perry's campaign hits its lowest point since oops. but we begin with the best reality show on television these days, donald trump. we are waiting right now for trump to speak to reporters in michigan. this is going to be i first campaign appearance since thursday night's debate. katy tur joins us from the trump event in michigan. robert costa with "the washington post" and michael steele is an msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the rnc. katy, you're on the scene, let's start with you. 'r