lace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card. really? that worked? american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here. the donald has landed. good morning. thanks for getting up with us this morning. steve kornacki has the morning off. i'm michael dyson. air traffic controllers lost contact with the regional aircraft nine minutes before it

was scheduled to land in the mountain o mountainous region. officials have called off the search for the evening. i'm being joined now on the phone by former commercial airline pilot anthony roman. we have our first photo of the type of aircraft they were flying on this route. what is your experience with this kind of, what appears to be, propeller aircraft? >> the atr-42 is a french and italian built twin turboprop. simply what that means, dara, is that it does have propellers but those are modern jet engines and this aircraft has a long, very safe history of flying with very few on dgoing mechanical proble, originally produced in 1984 and

still built today. this particular submodel seats approximately 42 to 50 people. it has suffered 23 whole loss accidents since 1984. and interestingly enough, one in the general vicinity in which the current aircraft has been lost during august 2014. the aircraft was lost in papua, new guinea, and had crashed with all the crew and passengers lost. i have to caution everyone. this is a very safe aircraft, made for short haul flights. the flight from jayipura to

oksibil, we understand there were approximately 54 people on board. we've also learned that the search for the aircraft after they lost contact with it has been suspended as a result of local bad weather. thunderstorms, heavy rain and night fall. based on our review of the satellite photographs, we understand that the terrain in which the aircraft lost contact is extremely remote. mou mountainous with very steep slopes and high mountain peaks. it's very dense jungle there. >> commercial airline pilot anthony roman, many thanks to you. stay here on msnbc as we keep following this breaking news story. for now let's return to "up with steve kornacki" and michael

dyson. spectacle of donald trump's arrival into the race for president, looking very much like his arrival to the fair yesterday, swooping in from the air to offer local kids a ride on his helicopter. don't you wish you were there? not even hillary clinton eating a pork chop on a stick could top that. both bypass convention skipping a chance to speak at the so-called soap box. hillary clinton had this to say about her ongoing e-mail investigation. >> this is the usual partisanization, which i may have just made up a word -- and i've been at this for a really long time. and i think people in iowa, like people across the country, are going to want to vote for somebody that they believe will deliver results for them. and i think i've got a very strong case to make on that. meanwhile, donald trump answered questions just how much he is willing to spend to

finance his own campaign. >> i had a lobbyist call me up yesterday. he is a friend of mine. good guy. smart as hell. he's tired. i don't blame him. i want to put $5 million into your campaign. i said i don't need it. i don't want it. when you come back to me in two years and you want help for a company that you're representing or a country that you're representing, i'm going to do the right thing for the people of the united states and i don't want to have to insult you. >> msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt joins us live from des moines this morning. i know you caught up with trump amongst the mobs yesterday. i don't know if you got a helicopter ride or not. what did you talk about? >> reporter: no helicopter ride for me, michael, unfortunately. they were mostly for the kids that donald gather dsed -- excu me, mr. trump gathered here at the fair. this is unlike anything we've seen at the iowa state fair. this is where candidates have been coming for years, really.

donald trump dispensed with everything traditional. the fact that people were so excited to see him, it reflects the political mood. as he was driving his golf cart through the fair, that's what i asked him. >> i think you'll see people are tired of politicians. >> reporter: so, there you have it. that's his overall message. he's still not getting too specific. although, he is releasing elements of his immigration plan on "meet the press" in an interview with chuck todd. he does say all the illegal immigrants -- excuse me, undocumented immigrants currently in the united states should be deported immediately. we're start iing to get some id on that front. michael, the question here has been whether or not he can translate this celebrity. as people started to figure out

he was here, the mob grew and grew and grew to the point where aides had to divert him from a planned stop at the water cow because too many people were packed in, waiting to see him there. they missed the turnoff to go to the pork producer's tent where he was supposed to be and the crowd of people was so thick that he couldn't turn around. the question is whether he can turn that excitement into actual votes. it's one thing to have people excited and take a selfie with you at the fair. it's entirely another to get them to show up in the dead of winter, school gymnasium and caucus for you. i caught up with his chief campaigner here. here is what he had to say about what he's hearing from trump supporters on the ground. >> the goal of the republican party is to expand the base. add voters. stop being outnumbered.

that's what this campaign is doing. they can't stand him for some reason but this is exactly what the republican party needs. >> reporter: so this idea that trump is reaching out to new caucusgoers, he says when people come up to this trump bus that they've been driving around in towns a lot of them tell him what's a caucus? how do i sign up for this? how do eye vote? the question will be whether they can actually get those new people engaged in the process and ultimately get them to vote or whether this trump bubble bursts before we get to february next year. michael? >> kasie, thanks so much for that great report. please stick around. >> thank you. an excerpt of donald trump's interview with chuck todd that you just talked about. the topic? immigration. >> you'll rescind that one, too? you'll rescind the dream act? >> we have to make a whole new set of standards. >> you're going to split up

families? you're going to deport -- >> chuck, we're going to keep the families together. we have to keep them together. >> you're going to keep them out? >> but they have to go. >> the full conversation will be online at "meet the press" path msnbc.co msnbc.com. >> i want to bring in my panel. perry bacon, senior reporter here from nbc. what do you all make of the donald trump comment on "meet the press"? the surrounding is not normal for chuck todd to be up in what looks like a private helicopter chatted i chattedi ining with the donald. what do you make of the comments, the sort of phobia that has been apparent in his rhetoric? >> he is at least consistent in

continuing to demonize and categorize people who are here undocumented as evil or those people or someone separate from who we are. he is obviously tapping into that sense of people who believe that they are the source of everything that's wrong with this country. speaking for the common man, telling it like it is, people identify with that. overall i think it's dangerous. we continue to have this conversation about immigration. it is a complex thing. he's making it seem so simple in how we address it. >> i think he is unambiguous. even when he's self contradictory -- by the way he

now has a red hat. the headline there, i think when he said i won't take a millionaire's money. our political system is so vulnerable to that critique, people love that. and people in the republican party love what they're hearing him say about mexico, even if a supposed wall costs billions of dollars, it doesn't matter. it's unambiguous. as far as translating to iowa, that's exactly the message they want to hear. he is giving them exactly what they want. 40 staffers in state. i don't know if it's going to continue on and grow. it might be a bubble. it's a bigger bubble or more likely to get support than any of his rivals, at least in places like iowa. >> robert george, is it the nightmare of the republican party that their leading figure is donald trump with all the baggage, no pun intended on his helicopter, brings along to the party? this kind of xenophobia,

anti-immigrant, at least in terms of undocumented people in the united states of america? it seems to run against every intent of the republican party to broaden its intent and bring more people in. does donald trump do that? >> it's a big problem. the party definitely has a major problem dealing with that. as l. joy said, though, there is a bizarre kind of consistency with trump. a number of republicans have been trying to sort of have it both ways on immigration. one hand they say we need a border. they also recognize you can't deport 11 million people. trump is basically saying you can do that. the longer he stays in the race, that message kind of spreads and becomes more problematic for whomever is going to be the eventual nominee, assuming it's not going to be donald trump, in

dealing with how to move forward. >> assuming it might not bebliee it's donald trump. there's prem megyn kelly and there's post megyn kelly. there's no argument with the numbers there. is donald trump here to stay, perry bacon? does he appear to be a flash in the pan? that seems to be quickly fading. it seems he is a man here to stay and the republican party has to deal with him. >> exactly. one thing candidates often have to leave the race because they don't have enough money. rick perry will have to do that soon. donald trump has the money. we now know he has support. i think he will be here for the caucuses for sure. he could be winning. i never thought i would say this but he might win the iowa caucuses. i still think overall the republican party has a lot of -- there are plenty of moderate republicans in places like new

hampshire, florida. jeb bush, marco rubio, scott walker more likely to win than donald trump but he's going to be here and is making an impact. you can tell the candidates -- a rot of them are talking about liberal immigration reform. now jeb bush is moving to the right and talking about sanctuary cities. donald trump has moved the debate to the right in a way -- >> historically, the winner of the iowa caucuses does not go on to win the republican nomination. >> they're certainly praying for that. he is pulling them to the right but with you trump card, so to speak, is that look i've got my own money. that kind of point wsticks out. >> right. he's not taking money from lots of millionaires, just from one, his own. >> it's a selfie. >> he embodies this notion that

we talk about where you can have right middle class and working class voters voting against their own interests. trump embodies that, right? this wealthy guy has all of the privilege and is talking simply about jobs and the economy. he is a great salesman and could probably sell water to fish. >> he would argue on -- >> taking on what people want to hear. >> he would argue on immigration that he's speaking for their interest because of work and jobs. >> let's get kasie hunt in. given the kind of rackus conversation we've had here, do people believe ta donald trump can further the interest of the republican party? >> reporter: it's a mix.

plenty of people there just wanted to see donald trump in the crowds yesterday. a famous billionaire who has been on screen for his business and private life. undocumented immigrants or some of the other things you guys were talking about. in some ways it's simply the way he is delivering it in this simple, straightforward, not messing around way. it's such a contrast with how many of these other candidates are used to talking about issues and being careful in their political posturing or talking around things, getting into the specifics. people are just tired of it. when i hear from people who say they would consider voting for him, they say he's not

politically correct. he says what he believes and i trust he is saying what he believes. people who eventually win nominations and the white house, that's a fundamental thing. perry and others on the panel are right when they say he is, at this point, likely going to be a factor in the iowa caucus and could potentially win it. other republican campaign operatives and aides who i talked to are starting to plan for that contingency and for somebody like scott walker, for example, it's potentially a really dangerous situation. >> all right. my thanks to kasie hunt for joining us. still ahead, the obama administration opened an embassy in cuba this week. can they close guantanamo? another week, another record for the bernie sanders campaign. that's next. stay with us. i just ran a couple of sweaty miles with these guys,

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i want to wish you a happy birthday. to some institution it's called social security, 80 years old. there's donald trump. what can we do? i apologize. we left the helicopter at home. >> that was bernie sanders yesterday in iowa. it's been another big week for the vermont senator. his week began with the rally in portland, oregon, that drew a record of 28,000 people. sanders spoke to nearly as many supporters, 27,000, in los angeles. by wednesday he had overtaken hillary clinton in a new poll in new hampshire. surging ahead of the one-time front-runner by seven points in this one survey. the sanders campaign will expand its field operation in iowa, opening several new field offices. what's fueling the rise of bernie sanders and can it last? so, look, when you think about

bernie sanders, we were having an interesting conversation during the break, interesting mr. marcus and straight out of compton. i don't want to say anything else about that. remember all the interests about elizabeth the senator, right? elizabeth warren and all of the warren interest generated and people thinking she's going to take in. bernie sanders has obliterated all of that. and opposite sides of the same coin, bernie sanders and donald trump. l. joy, do you think bernie sanders has absorbed the progressive energy of the democratic party and those even further to the left is now is the emblem of a real possibility? does he have a real possibility of winning within democratic politics? >> certainly when he began the campaign, people were talking about him just as the candidate

that was going to help to push the clinton campaign further to the left. i think he is definitely doing that and has absorbed, as you mention, senator warren, the excitement of drafting senator warren in the race and people wanting to see an alternative. lots of conversations happening. there's what happens within the party to create this candidate that is representative of all who are in the party, those who may be progressive. those who are sort of right leaning on the left and finding a candidate who can ride that middle ground and represent all of the interest. at the same time, there's also what's going on in the republican party. and in both conversations we're having, both trump embodies and bernie sanders embody this anti-washington, this sort o anti-against career politicians. something that i'm always amazed at. it's the only profession where we don't want people to be career, really good at their

jobs. >> no experience needed. >> no experience needed. >> let me ask you this question to tag on to it. is bernie sanders pulling the country, along with hillary clinton, to the left? is he forcing hillary clinton to come out with her viewpoints that she has established, especially in regard to race, number one? but also in terms of college debt and the like? is he pulling her to the left? >> i don't think he is actually doing that yet. if you look at hillary clinton's plan, they've been similar to president obama's. she's definitely trying to win the obama coalition. bernie sanders is talking about limiting the size of banks, increase of security benefits. he is talking about things. hillary clinton is not really there yet. >> college plans. >> the college plan is similar. >> and the kind of racial talk. >> i think she said that anyway. >> bernie sanders is obama in the first quarter, what obama is doing in the fourth quarter. >> i think hillary is trying to follow obama, very close to obama, obama at $15, hillary at

$12. trump is a celebrity kind of running a reality show campaign essentially. he is tapping into something. but he is really -- bernie sanders has been in congress for a long type. he has had the same idea -- thought the same thing for 30 years and now the rest of us are like, maybe he's right about some of them. >> his argument here, perry's, is that what that seems to be, what the voter -- trump, i'm sorry. what the voter really wants and donald trump is taking the challenge to move beyond it, obviously thinking about who is going to be in his cabinet and vice president. isn't he kind of ramping up to the kind of real demands of on-the-ground politics? >> trump? i think he has hired staffers. who will be in his cabinet? the vanderpumps? >> the kardashians. >> hillary is politic iking mor

and that's good. only poll that showed he's winning anywhere. nationally she's 31, 40 points in nbc polls, wall street journal polls. bernie sanders is like elizabeth warren in that they hear him. he seems fine. to them he's just liberal alternative. do voters know about his views, and know that he's pretty pro gun? it probably will hurt him if it comes to that nationally. >> it will certainly appeal to those across the aisle in an election. >> sanders benefits from the either/or. one liberal candidate. i see trump as much more likely to win than sanders. >> before we go to break i want to play some of his speech from yesterday and then we'll pick up on the other side of the break. >> i want to thank the people of iowa for the courage of voting

for obama in 2008. and what you showed is that a state that is mostly white could go beyond the color of a candidate's skin and vote for somebody based on their character and their ideas. >> fascinating comments. >> interesting. >> still ahead as we continue, has bernie sanders opened the door for vice president joe biden to enter the 2016 race? that's still ahead. first an update on the search for that missing indonesian airliner.

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civil rights activist julian bond has died after a brief illness, long-time chairman of the naacp, organizing rallies and protests against segregation at institutions that led to the landmark civil rights laws. he served in the georgia legislature and was professor at american university and university of virginia. he was 75 years old. more politics ahead on "up with steve kornacki."

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guantanamo but once again obama's plans are meeting resistance. ash carter and the pentagon so far have refused to let go any of the 52 detainees cleared for release. while looking for some place on u.s. soil to move the detainees, doing that will require congressional approval, something that is not likely to happen. from the american herald, carol, thank you for joining us. a new piece out is detailing alternate places for these detainees to be taken. what are some of the other places being talked about? >> since 2010 closing guantanamo has meant moving it. pentagon has been out scouting, ft. levin in kansas. they're not going to the two new briggs that have been built

since president obama's vow to close the detention center. as you pointed out, the problem with this is that they need congress to change the law to allow them to move at least some of these detainees to the united states. while the pentagon is out shopping for locations, the question is politically what is the white house going to give congress to lift the embargo that prevents the transferred? >> people are getting blinkered by all the facts. the american public knows it's a detention center, it has something to do with afghanistan and 750 prisoners that most are from muslim countries but some from french, british and other places. why is it so difficult? can you explain this in a layman's kind of perspective? why is it so difficult for the president to keep thhis promise and close guantanamo? >> i think because congress loves guantanamo, the messaging of the prison. they're not interested in giving the president this victory by allowing him to close it and

make good on the promise. we're talking about, at this point, 116 people there with the staff of over 2,000 guards and contractors working at that detention center. and there seems to be no will or certainly no one in congress advocating for closure, in effect allowing them to move them to a similar guantanamo situation. you know, we call it guantanamo north. they want to release 52 of these men. but we're talking about what they like at the white house to call the irreducible minimum, 60 some odd detainees they would move to the states. civil liberties people think that's not closing it. they argue that's not closing it and they want everybody tried or freed and think this detention regime this president and the president before him has set up is not consistent with american due process. >> what's the significance of the u.s. blocking the release of the hunger striking detainee

there? >> tarq ba odah has been on a hunger strike since 2007. he is at 56% of his ideal body weight, 74.5 pounds, according to his lawyer. 5'3", 5'4". the justice department, the defense department, the man is cleared for release. that's the irony of this whole thing. he has already been -- it's been decided by these boards, these panels, that he can go if there's a safe place to send him. the bush administration and obama administration now won't send detainees to yemen. they're shopping for a country to take him just like these other 51 men who were cleared. they don't want to acknowledge or to allow a court order to

free him. they think that will encourage more detainees to go on hunger strike. the fear is that the detainees will gain some sort of power if tarq ba odah leaves and each of them try to starve themselves into freedom. that's the fear. the problem is that the man has already been cleared and at least since 2010, the obama administration decided they don't need him at guantanamo. they don't want him at guantanamo. they just need a place to send him, a country to take him that will take responsibility for hi him. the other thing is that he sounds extremely sickly. if they're willing to take him to a rehabilitation program where his family lives, it's not clear at all to me or others who have looked at this case whether he's well enough to travel. he is a sick man, michael. >> thank you, carol rosenberg,

for joining us this morning. latest sign that democrats may be having reservations about a hillary clinton nomination. next, will rick perry be the first candidate out of the race for president? one of his most prominent supporters weighs in. that's next. stay with us. mmm yoplait! it's snack time! oh, look! yoplait original now has 25% less sugar. time to taste it.

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pac supporting perry. he joins us live. what do you think is going on with rick perry in regard to how he was handicapped initially to break into the race? is it that donald trump sucked up all the oxygen in the room and that donald trump played the card well before rick perry was able to do so? >> as you know, sometimes politics is really difficult to rye to handicap. here is what i know. he probably wasn't capable of raising money like his campaign wanted to. that's okay. just like american families what do you do? you go lean and mean and tighten your buckle. 1979 and what then governor reagan had to do his campaign was broke. of course, he was a former governor at that point in time. they made tough decisions.

we have a new add we just went up to. talking about issues that matter and resonate with voters in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. >> you plan to take over. i want to ask you a tricky question here. i taught there was no coordination between super pacs and campaigns. how does that pan out in terms of the restrictions and rules? >> you're right. we cannot talk to the governor, his staff. we have not and cannot. typically super pacs will do television ads, digital media ads. we've done about 4,500 gross points lot of television in the state of iowa and even some national nationally. what we can do is definitively go hire on staff, our own ground

game, precinct organization. we started that a couple of weeks ago and noticed that the campaign had not raised as much money as they would probably have liked to. and we decided to move forward on those activities ourselves. to support the governor as best we can. it's gone really well so far. >> so $17 million by the pacs, $1 million by perry is not good math. that's fuzzy math. do you begin to say, look, he is not a worthy investment? we have to figure somebody else out to invest in? >> you go back and look at his record. when he became governor, texas was ranked -- they're number two. 5.6 million people have moved to texas. they're going there for a reason. there are high-paying jobs.

they like him. look at external or internal polls and his favorables are very high. you know, politics is sometimes hard to figure out and we're going to be very patient and support him as best we can for the opportunity of the freedom super pac. >> stand by your man. austin barbour, thank you. >> thank you. >> how realistic are donald trump's plans to build a wall along the border with mexico? al gore running in 2016 rumor actually come from? that's next. stay with us. onto that lot and y you are surrounded, like a guppy in a shark tank. it just feels like, car salesmen want to sell whatever car is best for them,

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race aren't bernie or donald. it's joe and al. advi over the e-mail server she used as secretary of state has made everyone nervous, even her campaign staff is said to be nervous. nervous about whether the scandal will stay in the way of her winning the white house. perry bacon has been writing about the will they or won't they speculation and joins us now here again on set. perry, you're the man. you're the guy. you're the steph curry throwing the three pointers up. you're our mvp. little kevin durant there as well. tell us why this makes sense to talk about now in light of the troubles and trials hillary clinton is having vis-a-vis the

e-mail server that the vice president biden and al gore candidacy looms larger? >> some in the party are worried that if hillary is not a viable candidate who else can we have? bernie sanders, their view, is that he's a socialist and cannot win the general election. enter joe biden. enteral gore. next week my guess is that you'll hear about john kerry, somebody who is viable and well known. gillebrand, cory booker, those people could have ran earlier. it's too late for helm to get into the race now. if hillary had some real -- joe biden has been voted for by a lot of people already twice nationally. the kind of person that could get in and do pretty well in a swren electi general election. >> will biden suck more oxygen,

air, money as well from hillary clinton or is he going to suck it more from bernie sanders? >> i would suggest he would suck more from hillary clinton. bernie sanders are the warren people. they want a very progressive person. he is an established democrat, pretty much where hillary clinton is. nothing wrong with it. the polling, white liberals will like bernie sanders. minorities and more moderate democrats, more conservative democrats like hillary. biden would be competing with her. he ran against hillary in 2008 and he lost by a very large amount to hillary. >> how do you raise doubts about hillary? is this something in the -- it seemed initially to be something in the weeds. something about a server and whether or not they were -- whether they were top secret or not. now it becomes more real, more concrete and she's having a more difficult -- >> exactly. >> when the fbi is investigating, it suddenly gets real. and that's why you're seeing

nervousness. i might say bordering on panic among certain democratic elites. once the fbi is in there, you don't know where it's going, whether it's going toward an indictment of her, her staffers or so forth. once that happens, as we saw going back to the '90s with president clinton, it can become literally a federal -- it is literally a federal case. if you've got the person that the party, the establishment has put almost all their eggs in that one hillary basket it's not surprising they're starting to look around for people like biden and gordon. >> let me ask you this. could it backfire, though? if hillary clinton is carrying the baggage from her husband, the clintons are always under scrutiny and there's some of that. and the fact that she's a woman, being subject to a standard that is not -- and they were not subject to the same kind of standard. i'm just asking.

>> michael. >> let me ask l. joy. robert, you jump in later. >> there are a couple of things, right? first thing of remember -- this is the clintons, right? they've been under investigation for as long as i've known. >> the last 30 years. >> there's always some investigation. there's always something. so, me, in general, i find it hard to think as someone who would be under investigation all the time i'm going to do something deliberately wrong when someone is always watching me. that's number one. number two, yes there is a number of issues regarding sexism in terms of how she's covered or how she's held to a different standard as a woman. all of those things come together. you can sometimes separate the arguments out, talking about age, how she's dressed, being a grandmother, things like that. can you kind of separate and sometimes they're all mangled

together, as in life. >> when she's putting out her own server, she's creating a different standard for herself. >> but the question of the server itself is subject to scrutiny. this wasn't the rule when she was doing what she was doing. >> exactly. >> right? >> right. >> they had individual e-mails. >> here is the problem with the biden bubble. the problem with hillary may be in the specific this server, though there's always going to be something. she's stasis, more of the same. that's why conservatives are anyone but jeb. bide sben gore are still stasis. it took serena williams years to master the two handed backhand. but only one shot to master the chase mobile app.

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this morning. i'm michael eric dyson in for steve kornacki. some of the loudest and most influential voices in the race for the white house. i'll get that right. we've been staying on top of this morning's breaking news, airliner with 54 people on board. >> officials have called off the search for a missing indonesian airliner through the night, thinking their time. air traffic controllers regional aircraft, nine minutes, 13 nautical miles eastern province of papua. trigana air flight was making a domestic short in a very remote region carrying 54 passengers total. i'm joined by john cox.

>> atr has been in service for many years, considered a veteran in the industry. it's regarded by pilots as being a very solid airplane. it's got a good reputation. >> okay. it's a prop plane. reports of bad weather, even one report suggesting that the pilot said it is going to be impossible to land in the bad weather at the destination point, which was oksibil. talk about the difficulties landing a plane like this in bad weather. >> well, they have weather radar on board. as far as being able to see and avoid the thunderstorms, that's something they could certainly do. as they approached the airport, the pilots will have a plan to deal with the weather which includes an alternate airport if necessary. so they have another place to go land. as this airplane had been in flight about 33 minutes. so they were familiar with the developing weather situation. we don't know exactly what

happened yet. we just know that they did not respond to air traffic control calls and this is obviously something that the investigators will look at. >> in terms of detail, those 54 people, 44 adults, 5 children and 5 crew members. john, we know the area to be very, very remote. it is jungle like. in fact, apparently there was not even a weather observation tower at the destination point. what do you think of that? >> well, i will be very surprised if there was not some observer that the pilots could talk to. there may not be a formal air traffic control tower there but my experience is someone with the airlines will have qualified as a weather observer and pilots can talk to them and get the exact conditions at the landing airport. >> let's talk about trigana airlines, what we know about it, john. you have to note from 2007 to

2009, this airline was black listed from flying in europe. now, a point could be made that they don't even have the kinds of planes that would make it to europe from this regional indonesian area. what does that tell you? >> well, the indonesian carriers are not the only ones that have this listing with the europeans. you're correct in that they don't have the aircraft that are capable of reaching europe. as far as operationally, that black listing would not affect them. it does say something about the concerns on the part of the europeans of how this operates. i think the investigators are going to need to look very carefully at the operation of this airline to see if there is some cultural or systemic problems. >> captain john cox, thank you so much.

for all of you, of course, we'll stay along this, bring you the very latest as we get more information on this missing plane. also this morning we've learned of the passing after a civil rights icon. julian bond died after a brief illness, long time of the board chairman of the naacp. founding president that center released a statement that reads, in part, with julian's passing, the country has lost one of its most passionate and eloquent voices for the cause of justice. he advocated not just for african-americans but for every group indeed every person subject to owe pregnancy and discrimination because he recognized the common humanity in us all. he was 74 years old. i'll send it back to you, michael. >> thanks, alex. news of julian bond's death comes as the black lives matter movement continues to make its voice known on the campaign trail. when jeb bush asked how he would address racial injustices in

policing, this is what happened. >> everyone needs to be engaged in this to recognize that this is a serious problem. perceptions become reality. there is racism in america. best way to solve these problems are the way that i believe charleston solved it rather than communities where there was denial that there was not a serious problem. >> governor bush met privately with members of the movement before that town hall. but that didn't stop activists from breaking into chants of "black lives matter." black lives matter activists scored another big meeting the day before in new hampshire, sitting down privately with hillary clinton for 15 minutes. they had plans to disrupt her event but didn't make it in. protesters took to the mike at a bernie sanders' event, shutting down his remarks on social security. robert george of the new york post. npr and host of the slate podcast the gist and president of the brooklyn chapter of the

naacp and nbc reporter perry bacon jr. l. joy, let me begin with you. julian bond was a remarkable figure that you knew as part of the naacp that i knew very well in my own circles. one of the interesting things about the passing of julian bond and the black lives matter movement is that people don't recognize, he was part of snicc and dr. king's group, diane nash, james lewis, james bevel and julian bond and many others were for a leaderless movement. they challenged the top-down hierarchy put forth by preacher-led movements like selc. black lives matter had its first real incarnation to some degree and some measure with snicc from the '60s. >> often times we look back at history and have a very

sanitized view and a fairy tale view of the movements for freedom. that could be from freedom for this country overall to the civil rights movement. we tell the story as this fairy tale that this happened and everybody was on board, everybody was on the bridge with king. and we were all moving the country forward. so, it's very interesting to me both as a student of that movement and movements before. we often forget that there were movements for freedom before then. and as a current social justice advocate that we don't look back at history and see the similarities from there. completely with snicc you can see the similarities and the criticisms of the organizers and activists in black lives matter are so similar. >> very much. >> criticizings the tactics they're using. why are they interrupting people? where are their manners?

same language that you can just pick out from different books and seeing that. i'm so incredibly proud about the work that they're doing. here's why. particularly in presidential election context -- >> what's going on with the democratic vote. >> the candidates are in iowa, new hampshire, in early primary states and caucuses and the rest of us have to sit and wait for the candidates to come to us to address our issues. here and now black lives matter activists, young people saying don't forget about us. i'm not going to wait until you tell me using polls and coded language on what issues matter to me. i am pushing my -- pushing your envelope and your buttons to address my issues now. don't just go to caucuses. don't just go to early states. address my issues now and include that in your presidential campaign. >> especially in iowa and new hampshire. >> rather pale states. no pun intended. >> exactly. >> handicap for us what's going

on with the republicans. bernie sanders, hillary clinton. when you have secret service it's hard to have a black lives movement right there. tell us what's happening with the republicans. >> i thought it was interesting that the hillary people seemed to sort of prevent them from interrupting her but keeping them out ahead of time. almost like a preemptory attack. but, look, we were talking about this a little bit in the break. we've seen actually some folks on the republican side addressing some of these issues. >> give us an example. >> rick perry had a rather thoughtful speech several weeks ago, talking seriously addressing racism and inequality, addressing some of the things they've done to try to address it in texas. unfortunately it wasn't covered that much by the media. ben carson was here in new york this past week and he engaged. now he engaged on the question of black lives matter in a way

that black lives matter folks may not like. >> calling them silly? >> well, he said that they were kind of pointing fingers where he thought there needed to be more internal discussion within the black community as far as -- doesn't he think there should be less conversation about race and not more? >> he did not go that far to say that. what he did say was he did talk about the fact that the number one cause of death among young black males is homicide and it's at the hands of other young black males. >> rudy giuliani? >> no, but -- >> there's a correlation between what they're saying. >> but ben carson and rudy giuliani has different backgrounds and ben carson has a better standing than rudy giuliani. >> good point but what are the tactics that they've been using so far? especially with bernie sanders, why are you attacking our

friends, our allies, a guy like bernie sanders who came out after the seattle disruption with a very strategic and interesting and thickly detailed racial agenda and hired a black woman on top of it? he is upping the ante so to speak. >> i think l. joy is right. people calling them rude is kind of irrelevant and two, the tactics are working. bernie sanders did not have that plan a few months ago. now he does. martin o'malley did not. now he does. jeb bush wasn't talking about race a few months ago. now he is. dreamers brought immigration -- the goal is not to be nice but to get candidates talking about issues beyond their preferred talking points. >> we've seen this not only with the dreamers but -- >> gay rights. >> exactly. bisexual people. give us a sense of this notion of rudeness aside, the efficacy, as perry indicated, of demanding

the candidates ante up right now. tell us what you're going to do right now. not at the end goal where you can avoid us again but integrate it into the very fabric of your discussions about the issues now. >> sure. i think the tactic is smart for them. however, i often think that mass movements are a reflection of what's going on and what's brewing as opposed to the point of the spear. we have an anniversary of ferguson and a discussion needed to be had and that's why you have the mass movement. i covered the perry speech. i don't want to give perry too much credit. i covered it extensively on "the gist." sanders currently only has 20% name recognition in the black community. we were talking about bernie sanders' chances. black support in the community, recognition is the biggest problem. his agenda all along -- he got more specific -- but was criticized of covering it up under the cover of darkness.

his entire political career has been pretty much in lockstep with what black activism wanted. rick perry, for a republican, interestingly said we're too much into state lives. >> let me ask this question very quickly. why has barack obama not been interrupted by black lives matter? >> social. >> to the point that was made, it's very difficult to interrupt the president and also hillary clinton, when you have secret service protecting you. there's only so far -- you're not getting up to the mike. that's not happening. but they have been very critical both online and in different -- about the president and about him not addressing these issues. we talk about that statement he said, "mac me do it."

people have been trying to push for a very long time to push him to move on these issues. towards the end of his presidency, we see him doing more. i still think not enough. but it's been a very critical point. >> barack obama managed to unite the white progressives and the black base together. with him sort of departing, you see tension -- the black lives matter fight is between the black base of the party and more sort of upper crust upper west side. >> i don't want to be black lives matter and interrupt but still ahead, as we continue, military brass speak up on the iran nuclear deal. first, one president made history with a call to tear down this wall. now a presidential candidate is calling for us to build one. those details are next. isn't it time to let the real you shine through?

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donald trump is promising to unveil his policy positions on immigration and tax policy next month. as of now, one of the few policies he has expressed is his very expensive desire to build a wall along the u.s. border with mexico and to make mexico pay for it. >> we're building a wall. it's going to be a wall that is not -- nobody is going through my wall. trump builds walls, i build walls. we're building a wall. it's going to be strong. it's going to be solid. it's going to be policed. people said they can tunnel under. that's true. with x-ray equipment, they can't. fly a drone over it. they can see that immediately. nobody can go under it. nobody's going over it. you know what? we'll have a big door for people that come in legally. >> a spokesperson for the mexican president told bloomberg

new this is week they would not pay for a wall and said any suggestion that they would was irresponsible. just how realistic is building a wall between the two countries and what would a border wall like this accomplish? joining me now, sylvia longmeyer, a drug war analyst. si sylvia, is even possible to build a wall that donald trump is talking about? >> no way it's remotely practical. you have the expense. one mile of a border fence costs anywhere from $1.6 million to $22 million. have you environmental factors to worry about. and a lot of the territory along the southwest border is privately owned. dealing with all the red tape that deals with buying up all that land to put the fence there in the first place. >> the mexican president has already contradicted donald trump. how does that play into the i'm going to do it. i'm going to make them pay for t

it won't cost us anything and all the things he's talking about. does this lower his threshold of expectation around getting this done effectiy leffectively? >> it's pure rhetoric. look at the last election. during the republican bait, candidates said they wanted to build an electric fence. this comes up every time during every election cycle and it really panders to viewers who want that border fortified. it doesn't necessarily mean it's practical. >> would it be an effective way to reduce illegal immigration? >> absolutely not. there is a use for the border fence. it's not designed to stop anyone. it's designed to slow people down, move them into places away from urban areas and for border patrol to apprehend them in areas that are -- that make communities safer. however we've seen time and time again that not only does that not work, because people are still getting across the border but it's more dangerous for

immigrants coming across because it funnels them into more dangerous parts of the border areas. >> keeping the undocumented in the united states, what's your thought on that? >> it's become very, very dangerous for michltgragrants t. they pay anywhere to $3,000 per person to bring them across areas of the border that are not fenced. it's becoming more expensive and dangerous. the fence isn't stopping anyone. added border patrol agents aren't stopping anyone. it's a matter of desperation, lack of security, lack of economic opportunities. >> so what would be the most effective way, in your mind, of reducing illegal immigration? >> i'm in favor of a strong immigration reform program. i wish i knew what the answer to that would be or i would be making a lot more money. by handling that at a

legislative level, policy level and removing that from law enforcement reduces the burden on our very hardworking men and women and customs and border patrol to go after the real national security threats, drug smugglers, murderers and folks coming across that are really coming to harm people in this country. >> what about other immigrants from other parts of the world that get lost in the sauce in this conversation? >> absolutely. a lot of immigrants are coming not only from europe but africa, china. and the immigration system, visa system is absolutely broken. you have a 300,000 case backlog of people that are supposed to be going in front of only 236 immigration judges. wait to get a legal visa from some countries up to 20 years. for folks in a desperate economic situation, how many of those folks will wait for 20 years to come here legally? you're looking at revamping an

entire legal and immigration system. >> thanks to sylvia longmire for joining us today. >> thank you. still ahead, more information on that missing airliner. it's more than a network. it's how you stay connected. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you get an industry leading broadband network and cloud and hosting services. centurylink. your link to what's next. look aon tripadvisor.l hotel wait. why leave the site? don't you know the tripadvisor you've always trusted for reviews,

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stay strong. stay active with boost®. welcome back, everyone. i'm alex witt. an indonesian plane carrying 54 people is missing this morning. kelly cobiella is standing by in london with the very latest. good morning to you. >> good morning, alex. villagers in this remote part of papua reportedly saw a plane flying low then crash into a mountain, the very latest. search and rescue teams are heading to that area close to the destination airport. they plan to begin searching at dawn in about ten hours. this was a local carrier, trigana air service. a twin turbo prop plane. 44 adults, five children, five crew members on board. all of them indonesian.

the plane was flying from the provincial capital of jayapura to oksibil. the pilot said the visibility was too poor to land. there was very bad weather in the area at the time. heavy rain. strong winds, fog. and it's a difficult place to fly and search as well, alex. dense jungle and mountains. in fact, some planes that have gone down there have never been found. but at this hour it does appear that villagers near the destination airport, about 15 miles from the destination airport saw the crash, saying the plane flew into a mountain. we'll keep you up-to-date, alex. >> at least that is a bit of at least glimmer on the search and rescue efforts. very mountainous, difficult region to try to find people and

a plane. thank you so much, kelly, from london. on the very latest out of tianjin, china. the death toll has risen to 112 in the wake of an explosion at a chemical warehouse on wednesday. nearly 100 people still missing, most of them firefighters. authorities are working to contain contamination that has been detected beyond the site of the blast. more news and politics ahead for you. feeling intense lower back pain?

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signed an open letter in support of the deal writing, quote, the international deal blocks the potential pathways to a nuclear bomb, provides for intrusive verification and strengthens american national security. america and our allies in the middle east and around the world will be safer when this agreement is fully implemented. joining me now is retired admiral general. thank you for joining us. tell us why you signed this letter. >> we thought it was important to state what this agreement is. there seems to be a lot of false information, misunderstandings about what it is. this is a good deal. it sets out what it prevents to do, iran getting a nuclear weapon. alternative is probably a war. this is a good deal because it gathers together the international community.

it's not based on trust. it's based on verification. >> it has that reagan-esque trust about it. >> but it's not trust. we don't trust them. in the cold war, we didn't trust the soviets but we've had agreements with them to reduce arms. this san even more intrusive agreement than that with regard to inspections. >> if you had a platform before these u.s. senators that were undecided what would you say to them to sway them? >> look at what the agreement does, monitoring of their entire nuclear production facilities, from the mines, storage, centrif centrifuges. that lasts for 25 careers. they have to commit to never having a nuclear weapon. they reduce their current stock by 98%.

they have enough missile material right now to make eight to ten bombs, right now. the other thing i would tell members of congress is that the alternative is terrible. they could have these nuclear weapons in a few months and then we don't really have options after that. sanctions that we've put on them have worked to bring iranians to the table and we need to give these a chance to work, particularly when we've got such an intrusive inspection regime that's been set up. >> letters sent by senators trying to preemptively strike against this deal, has there been blowback about that? what about americans concerned about national security, should this make them more anxious? >> it makes me a lot less concerned about national security. iranians already had the nuclear plant discovered several years ago. by the way, our intelligence,

allies and u.s. intelligence services discovered that. we know what they're doing. it's hard to hide nuclear production. it takes tens of thousands of centrifuges to enrich uranium. they're going to pour concrete into the iraq heavy water eractor, ship out their spent fuel for years and years. this will be in effect. not only national security but regional security of our allies. >> is the president going to get the votes to safeguard against a veto? >> i think he will get them. can i ask a question of the admiral? >> sure. >> i agree with everything you've been saying about pushing out, break back time and why the president would frame it in this way.

what about the extra aspect that by lifting sanctions they'll be able to fund hamas? let's talk about hezbollah. why is that not a primary concern? are you worried that hezbollah will be able to cause so much more havoc and we have to weigh that against the benefits of a breakout time? that's a few months longer? >> those are all legitimate concerns. because of these sanctions, iran is about half a trillion dollars behind. they have critical needs. with regard to terrorism, missiles, human rights, we're trying to get americans out of iran. all those sanctions still stay in place. these sanctions just have to deal with the nuclear deal. they have to perform before they go into effect. the money they do get will be

overseas, used for trade and will have to use it in order to relieve some of the tremendous economic problems they've had because of these sanctions. >> president obama has made the argument that sort of this deal, what we are left with, either a, going to war, b, failure of diplomacy to work and c no mechanism in place to hold them to accountability and to forestall a potential strike of iran against its neighbor in israel and other areas of the region. does that make sense to you? >> michael, it's a key point. it's not just we'll get a better deal if we hold out longer. letting this deal lapse means sanctions start to erode immediately, they'll get a nuclear weapon within months or a year and all the things that held them in check will start going away and i think there would be much worse problems for our all is in the region if we don't have this deal in place.

particularly because this is an historic deal. we have our european allies and russia and china have signed on it. the way that this works is that if iran ever cheats -- we'll know it if they are -- we can snap those sanctions back in place without a chinese or russian veto. >> let me ask you this question. when people like you, decorated in war, represent our military, sign on to a deal like this, it gives the president far more legitimacy than u.s. senators, many of whom have never darkened the corridors of theaters of war and more broadly it suggests something more powerful is to be said when u.s. military figures come to say this is a good deal. >> you're going to find military officers on both sides of this particular one. but every military officer agrees we cannot allow iranians to have nuclear weapons.

our military education we're taught about the dime principle. diplomacy, instrumentation, military, economics. we've used economics to bring them to the table. we have information out there that we know what their nuclear capabilities are now. we have to use diplomacy, particularly when we've gathered the international community together around this deal before we move to military. if we don't do this, military is about the only option left. >> thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you. still ahead as we continue beyond the helicopter, what will donald trump's policy plans look like? stay with us.

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the works with trump telling "the post" he will reveal his immigration and tax policy plans next month. are you going to meet with him on the helicopter, steven or where -- have you figured out where you're going to meet with the donald this coming week? >> good morning, michael. look, i've formed this group committee with steve forbes and larry kudlow and others. our mission is how do we increase economic growth and make this country prosperous again? we've met with almost all the candidates on the republican side and extended invitation to hillary clinton on the democratic side. donald trump has agreed to meet with us and will face hard questions about what does he think on immigration and energy policy and others and hopefully

have influence on what his positions are. right now he hasn't put out much of a statement. >> i was going to say that. he's not saying much. so is he going to get away with the generalities and vagueness that he has been putting out so far? you have been able to put the screws to him, so to speak, and make him give analyses. >> that's a good question. sometimes presidential candidates never get real specific about what they want to do. when bill clinton ran, it never really put any meat on the bones. if he think he can win the republican nomination he will have to convince republican voters he is a conservative that he believes in lower taxes and that he believes in less

regulation and i would say pro immigration. the thing that troubles me -- a lot about trump that i like. i don't have a dog in the race right now. the thing that is most concerning is his trade protection when he talks about china eating our lunch and mexico is the next china and china is a currency manipulator. republicans are generally a free trade party. one of the things i'm going to tell him, by the way, michael, i'm going to say the last republican president who was a protectionist was herbert hoover. >> that dam didn't work out. when you think about donald trump bragging about money more than jay-z or your favorite rapper, will it make a difference in terms of what donald trump ends up doing vis-a-vis his populist message?

>> i think he has handled the money question well. he said i made billions of dollars and i'm proud of it. he has been hit on the right for going bankrupt so many times. he was asked about -- he said he wanted to pay as little tacks as possible and the press came down on how can you say that? two reasons, he said. i thought it was a great answer. look, as a businessman if i pay less taxes that's more money i can use to hire more workers and pay them more money. second of all, washington wastes so much money they don't need more of my money. those answers are appealing to people. he is running as the nonpolitician. he doesn't follow any of the conventional rules. we haven't seen anything like this, i think, in 50 years in american politics. >> all right. 15 seconds. tell me in your mind, is donald trump a serious candidate? >> he is. >> is he trying to test the water? you think there's no doubt in your mind -- >> there's no doubt in my mind. he is the greatest mashlthing person i've seen in politics in my lifetime.

i think he and his campaign now believe they can win this race. >> all right. >> we'll see. >> my thanks to stephen moore for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> this programming reminder. if you want to marry more from donald trump, you're going to want to catch chuck todd's exclusive interview on "meet the press" airing at 2:00 pm eastern here on msnbc and catch the full interview on msnbc.com.

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and i am a certified arborist for pg&e.ughes i oversee the patrolling of trees near power lines and roots near pipes and underground infrastructure. at pg&e wherever we work, we work hard to protect the environment. getting the job done safely so we can keep the lights on for everybody. because i live here i have a deeper connection to the community. and i want to see the community grow and thrive. every year we work with cities and schools to plant trees in our communities. the environment is there for my kids and future generations. together, we're building a better california. there's a lot going on this morning. let's get caught up on some of the other headlines making news with today's panel. the admiral talked about the dying principle. let's link that to this los angeles times, if you will, headlines. "straight outta compton" is a

big box opening. it earned $25 million friday and is on its way to $50 million this weekend. it will be one of the biggest blockbuster openings ever for a movie. not a musical, not a bio pick. >> last year it was "garden of the galaxy," this year it's the nba. it's a well done movie, it's also compelling, it's hitting at a cultural moment where you're seeing tensions between the african-american community and the police. there is a significant scene where they're told not to play their song "blank the police" and they go ahead and play it -- >> in detroit. >> -- in detroit, and there is a riot. we were saying this early on, with donald trump out there, you have these people who are saying what they feel is their truth

and they don't want to be held to conventions of political correctness. it's hitting an interesting cultural moment. >> i haven't seen it, i don't know if i'll see it in theaters, but it is also interesting to note sort of the frenzy that was caused by law enforcement. at some of the theaters in new york, they had an auxiliary cop sitting outside the theater, just sitting there. they were talking about the movement and how people of color are treated differently in this country, and so this movie somehow is more violent and more prone to violence than all the other movies that have guns and shooting up and tearing up the world. somehow we need a police car in front of the theater just in case black people decide to do something. >> right. well, it's been fascinating. >> it's blacks and whites at the movie. >> it spans generations. guys in the nwa are 46, 47 right now. >> billionaires, like donald trump. drake could run for president. >> people want to watch this

movie, and it's uplifting. it's not a downer. as great a movie as "selma" was, it was a downer. >> i was a seminary professor in hartford seminary running an anti-property project teaching ethics, but i had my bible in one hand and nwa in the other. you know, "blank the police" coming straight from the underground, another brother got it bad because i'm brown, so police think they have the authority to kill the minority, blacks aren't the ones to be beaten on. how relevant is that to black lives matter and the movement in the streets talking about police brutality, mistrust between the police departments and the communities of our broader culture. >> and it's interesting because art sort of helps to amplify what is happening currently, and that's what nwa did, and now it was released at a perfect time to continue that conversation. >> we're going to toss right now to alex witt for an update on

the indonesia plane. maybe we are. okay. that's all right. so let's toss back to me. all right. she's ready now. alex witt. >> i am so sorry. we've been monitoring everything from our desk. just so you know, we're getting word from the ministry of transportation official in indonesia. they say they have found the plane. this is the plane we've been following, this atr 42300. 54 people on board. it is a plane that disappeared about 13 nautical miles from its landing destination. that was in oxyvil, the destination point in indonesia. the disappearance happened at 1:00 a.m. eastern time. the problem, as you know, michael, is the fact that it was in a very, very remote area that it went down. again, they're just getting word through the transportation ministry that that plane has been found. they'll look to see if they can

provide rescue or recovery operations there. that is the latest word out of indonesia. ran back from the studio to bring it to you. >> alex, let me ask you one more question. is there any fear of any kind of extraneous or external kind of forces on this plane other than weather? >> you know, that would be very premature to speculate, and it's always the question that is asked given the region, or actually any plane traveling these days, michael, but the fact is there were reports of terrible weather, inclement weather, and we know the last communication from the pilot to the control tower was they were having trouble landing. they were worried about the landing because of the bad weather. this is a very mountainous region. there are reports that planes have never been found in these remote jungle areas. so at this point, it looks like weather related but not confirmed. >> all right, alex. thank you for that update. let's go back to our headlines. let's go to the next one, although we could stay all day, of course, on the nwa. a crazy brother named ice cube from a gang called with

attitude, you, too, boy -- okay. expressing herself as the great one is really great. "new york times" at&t helped u.s. spy on internet on a vast scale. so there is information out here that at&t somehow had some relationship to spying on people -- >> paging rand paul, actually. >> this is libertarian? >> this is something in the wheelhouse of the senator, and i think it's something that will get people agitated on both sides. >> very quickly, sporting news, the nfl's first female coach. i want to say amen to the nfl for doing the right thing. it's not just politically correct, it's athletically correct. why we want to be politically correct on everything besides politics is beyond me. i thank my panel, and thank you

for getting up with us today. up next is melissa harris-perry. joe reed is sitting in for melissa today. stay tuned.

good morning, i'm joy reid in for melissa. we begin with breaking news this morning. roeters reports that the plane that went down over indonesia has been found. the plane was en route to the town of oxibill after leaving jayapura. the flight usually takes about 45 minutes but the plane lost contact about 40 minutes after takeoff. let's go to kelly cobiella. what do we know about this plane being found? >> reporter: they are citing an indonesian transportation official as saying this wreckage has now been found. villagers in this remote part of indonesia had reportedly seen the plane flying lo