yes, the health law is the law of the land and, no, it cannot be easily torn down. it will not be torn down now or some future president who replaces this one.

i love iowa and i love these children. they have great children. >> sometimes there's been a backlash against rich candidates like mitt romney. any chance of that with you? >> first of all, he wasn't rich. and i don't really think they were -- >> here you go, boys! >> and the people in iowa have really loved us. >> so no matter how -- >> let's watch this. put it down. >> whoa! >> i was hoping you'd wear jeans. >> do you own jeans. >> these are my jeans. >> do you own jeans? >> i do. >> oh, my gosh. so we find out that mitt romney wore jeans and it didn't help him out, and also, that mitt romney wasn't rich. welcome to the wonderful world of trump, now airing 24 hours a day on a news channel near you.

good morning. welcome to "morning joe." hope you had a great weekend. with us -- we've got so much to talk about. what a -- if you were smart and didn't watch the news this weekend and instead hung out with your family, in the great weather, we have a lot of news for you this morning. unbelievable stuff going on. unbelievable new polls. unbelievable turn of events in this campaign. hillary clinton making jokes about an fbi investigation, about e-mails that her own staff are now starting to worry could have a big impact in her campaign. tons of political news going on. to talk about it, we've got katty kay, nicole wallace, ed rendell, sam stein in washington, and mark halperin in iowa. mark, i want to begin with you. you were the one following donald trump around a good bit on his magical mystery tour. you said this. most importantly, of this weekend, we've reached a turning

point with trump, the major establishment campaigns of both parties now think trump could win iowa, and most of them think he could win the nomination. and a significant number think he could win the white house. this is a big change. it was all enough for you, of course, channeling sophocles, to say, they were in, quote, full freakout mode. take us through this weekend. >> reporter: well, look, trump may not end up as a nominee, but right now, he's changed the race. not just leading in the fox poll, but coming to the fair. i've been to the fair with barack obama at his peak, sarah palin at her peak, with other candidates, george bush, the reception trump got here was not just about celebrity. i walked with him for 45 minutes after the helicopter ride, he came to the fair. and people were yelling things to him with passion. "save us," "you're the only one

who can stop hillary," "thank you for making america great again." the other leading republican campaigns monitors trump's behavior here. and that was along with the fox poll and the last couple of weeks, along with them now saying is, as you just quoted, they now believe trump can win iowa. >> and mark, that really changes everything in this campaign about how they react to him. jeb bush, all of the money in the world, all the endorsements in the world, everything in the world, he still can't get out of his way on an iraq question. and, you know, in all of these media darlings, marco rubio is officially the media darling of this campaign. you can't have people say enough wonderful things about marco, if he completes a sentence, without drinking water. i mean, after -- oh, marco won! marco's the greatest candidate ever! oh, my god, look at marco! and he's at like 5 or 6% in

these polls. rand paul in complete collapse. jeb bush, down. it's -- trump is dominating everything. it really does change the entire field. scott walker, who was supposed to be the great hope for conservatives, he's at 6%. kasich, another media darling, at 4%. and by the way, i like kasich. chris christie and paul, both sitting at 3%. this is donald trump versus the field. everything has changed, mark. >> and the problem for these campaigns now is you think about, okay, there's a runaway front-runner with tons of conventional vulnerabilitievuln. on "meet the press" with chuck yesterday, he said seven things that would have been firestorms for other candidates. they're now grappling with, what is it about trump that they can take him down with? family, business dealings,

temperament? but they're grappling, how do you move forward, think about what states you can win, when the reality is no one has a trump strategy they're confident with. and trump, i spent a fair amount of time with him at the fair over the weekend, he's not afraid of anybody in this race, not afraid of anybody in this race. and that confidence gives him the ability to do what he wants to do, putting out his immigration plan, going where he wants to go when he wants to go, hasn't started spending his own money yet in any real amount. again, trump has weaknesses, there are other candidates in this race who are strong. but it's a snapshot where we are now today. this is a seismic shift of saying, what happens in the possibility, and some are thinking probability that trump wins iowa and other states early on. >> and we had this past sunday which was different from other past sundays, because you couldn't read articles in "the new york times" or "the washington post" explaining how trump's campaign was over.

this was a weekly feature in most newspapers over the last few months, telling us why donald trump's campaign was coming to a screeching halt. that didn't happen this weekend. and i think in part it's because people are starting to realize he's going to be around over the weekend, this guy can't be knocked down, except by himself. this is donald trump talking about his own durability in the polls. >> i don't think i've made mistakes. i mean, every time somebody says i've made a mistake, they do the polls and my numbers go up. when i said mexico was ascending, i was talking about illegal immigration, the people understood it. when i talked about john mccain, i was talking about how bad he's treated the veterans, because the veterans are treated badly. then they did a poll, who do you like better, to the veterans, john mccain or trump and i swamp him. and this last thing be swamp, i like roger ailes, all you have to do is ask roger ailes, who won?

>> okay. i don't know where to go from there. he seems -- if this is possible, if this is possible, he seems to be getting even more confident. so, you have run republican campaigns, you have been through this. i remember you telling me one time a year ago, it takes more money to run in a large state for senate than it does to run for president of the united states in the early stages. you said, it's all about catching lightning in a bottle. donald trump has lightning like all over the place. what's going on -- >> listen, i think he is the lightning, right? i think he's the lightning and the thunder. and i think to talk about donald trump and think you can do that without disparaging his now very animated, very passionate supporters, is the mistake that the elites keep making. >> well, they've been calling them fools for a very long time. and yet, and yesterday, by the way, i saw on sunday weekend shows, people talking about, oh, it's lower class, it's

uneducated -- >> my father -- >> your father likes trump? >> my father is so mad at me for calling him a clown and i called him hideous, my father said, knock it out, i love him! >> by the way, my brother, very well educated, he's got a great job, hard worker, has voted for every republican nominee since he was 18 years old. he loves trump too. >> and the sentiment is, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. so my dad and a lot of people that are excited about trump, they're animating sort of desire is to have somebody who breaks the mold. and trump does that when he fails and trump does that when he succeeds. so trump does that when he says something great. trump does it when he says something freaking moronic. so what they love is trumpism. what they love is a guy who says the inappropriate thing. they lova guy walks into a quote/unquote political scandal, because it means he's unafraid. it means he's not poll testing

his comments andin positions before he says it. >> and so much of this has to do with the failings of the republican party. >> and the whole political culture. >> but a lot of people have felt that republicans have been impotent through the years -- >> and weak. >> and weak, and they've caved in and started too many wars, spent too much money, run up too many deficits, haven't been able to do anything to stop barack obama and they're simply fed up. >> but it's not even as specific as policy proposals, i think it's what nicole is saying is. that the more that trump is like trump, the more he points out how other politicians have become canned and cautious and scrutinized and controlled by polls, and controlled by their handlers. and he sets up a contrast that we've been saying for years, the person that runs for president of the united states has to be somebody now that, because of the amount of scrutiny that they have, because of the 24-hour news network, because of social media, they're inevitably going to end up being somebody who's bland and kind of more abrupt --

and he isn't. >> and katty, you're exactly right. and he makes scott walker, who measures every word out on the campaign trail -- >> or lihillary clinton -- >> -- even more measured. or hillary clinton, who has snapchat jokes fed to her, makes her look like a robot. jeb bush, my god, makes jeb bush look so tired and boring. you put him up against any of them, other than maybe john kasich. >> and people -- i don't think people are scrutinizing exactly what donald trump's policy positions are, because on illegal immigrants, at the moment i don't favor pass citizenship, that might change. but public health care works great in canada and works great in scotland. so if you said to people, do you really support his policy positions, that's not what it is. it's what nicole is saying, that comes across as authentic and, i don't give a damn.

>> governor, i know it, you know it, we've both run, you've run at a larger level. but i've told people in my campaign very early on, my first year, i figured it out. yes, there are ideologues out there, but the people who decides who wins elections, they're not ideological, they don't vote based on position paper, they vote based on their gut. does this get me, is this guy going to fight for me, or is this guy going to let me down, or this woman. that's how they vote! >> there's no question. authenticity is the hallmark of the campaign. ben carson in second place, authentic as can be. bernie sanders doing well in the republican primary. as authentic as can be. so authenticity is reigning. >> is that one of hillary's problems, too, why she's losing in new hampshire? >> i think she's out there trying not to lose. when your campaign is trying not to lose, you lose. >> everybody going, you're going to lose!

>> hillary's in the prevent in the first quarter. >> it's a bad mistake. >> but i think the question of, how do you run against trump, if you're one of the republicans, is i run against everybody else. i want to be there when it gets to one on one or one on two, because then donald has a problem. he has that 59 or 60% of the republican electorate who say, i don't like the guy and i don't want him to be president. so in a field of 16 or 17, he's going to dominate for a while. >> but i want to say, what they need to do, is not, i like the guy, they need to love him and his celebrity, but the second part of what you said, i don't want him to be our president. >> and the more they hear from him, the more they seem to like him. the state fair, he took questions from the press and was surround by children who gathered for helicopter rides. he talks to them, of course, about donors, and what sets him apart from the other candidates. take a listen. >> many of the people who gave

to jeb and to hillary and everybody else, they're friends of mine or enemies of mine, but they're people i know. these are not people who are doing it because they like the color of his hair, believe me. these are highly sophisticated killer. and when they gave $5 million or $2 million or $1 million to jeb, they have him just like a puppet. he'll do whatever they want. he is their puppet, believe me. and me, i had yesterday a lobbyist call me up, a friend of mine, good guy, smart as hell, he's for his client. i don't blame him. he said, donald, i want to put $5 million into your campaign. i said, i don't need it, i don't want it. he said, no, no, i want to put $5 million in. i said, i don't want it, because when you come back to me in two years and want help for a company that you're representing or a country that you're representing, i'm going to do the right thing for the people of the united states and i don't want to have to insult you. >> boy, that's a strong message. you laughed a couple of times. i liked that part when he said,

i have a friend that said, i wanted to give you $5 million, and he said, i don't want your money! >> i laughed at the helicopter rides as well. listen, his entire persona is about everything that's broken in our politics. the sense that money has corrupted the whole damn thing. i think this is particularly a cue for hillary clinton and the foundation and the foundation cashbook, which is riveting, i just finished it. but he is, right now, the antibiotic to the entire infected political body. >> it is a strong message for voters. how do you think voters in bucks county would take it. a candidate saying, somebody wanted to give me $5 million, and i said, i don't need your stinking money. >> that will resonate with almost any voter. but the problem is, donald was the guy for the longest time trying to buy the candidates. >> and he didn'll tell you that! >> he gave me a lot of money, we

were friends, and he gave me a lot of money, and he applied for a casino license in pennsylvania. and guess what, his location -- i wanted him, because i wanted the trump name. i thought he would draw. but his location was a bad location. the casino control board didn't vote to give him a license, so all the money he gave me didn't -- >> do the trick. >> does he still like you? >> no. in fact, when i was on one morning here, he called me and ripped me for saying nasty things about him. he said, after all the none you gave me. and donald, i said that you've got growth potential, but you've got to get serious. and i think it's interesting. we all saw the interview with chuck. i think he's trying to be a little bit more presidential. he's trying to fit himself -- not into a politician's mold, but trying to tone it down a tiny bit. >> are you saying he'll deport even legal citizens -- deporting the dreamers, these kids are citizens. >> donald trump is moving, i

think, into a new phase of the campaign. you talk internally, mark halperin,internally, you talk to the trump people and they'll tell you they are moving to a new phase of this campaign, and you could pick up in the tone this weekend, donald trump turning the page. >> reporter: without a question. he's not -- i think governor rendell is exactly right in sort of the tone. there's lots to nitpick and pick at in terms of the stuff he said to chuck and "meet the press," but he had a lot of answers that were pretty fluid, almost like a normal candidate, but, again, as governor rendell said, he knows he can't give up his overall image of not being a politician. and if you read the immigration plan, look, if you're someone who disagrees with him on the issue of legal and illegal immigration, you'll hate the plan. but there's a lot of seriousness in the policy plan he put out. and at a time other politicians don't have many other policy plans, and certainly not very many that are accessible to the public, this immigration plan gives him a way to say, you want

some serious policy, here, by the standards of presidential campaign, are some pretty serious policy, even if there are some flaws in the plan. >> and i understand a jobs plan is going to be coming out over the next couple of weeks and we'll see more of these position papers. sam stein, it seems to me, though, that the rest of the republican field has to be pulling their head out -- their hair out. look at jeb bush, a guy who's done everything right, he's raised over $100 million. he's got all the right people in place, all the right foreign policy experts. all on his side. he's playing by the rules. >> a terrific governor. >> and was a great governor for two terms in a very big, a difficult state to manage. and nobody's talking about him. >> well, they're talking about him, but not in the way he wants to be talked about obviously. if you look at this poll or any poll recently, you get the clear trend, which is anyone who is associated with being outside d.c. or not in politics does

pretty well in these primary polls. and jeb, for all his, you know, qualities is associated with d.c. and i think he's picking up on it, too. because the other day he was saying he's a washington, d.c. outsider. the son of a president and the brother of another president, that's a little tough to sell. but he's got a lot of money that he's sitting on. and he announced that his super pac will go on-air, a $10 million ad buy in new hampshire and iowa. i don't think that's from a position of strength. i think that's him recognizing that he needs to do more. specifically in new hampshire, he's got to do more and get more biographical ads out there, because he's not catching the wave that trump has caught or that ben carson is catching or that carly fiorina is catching. >> still no time to panic, you're six months away from the primary in new hampshire, a little less than six months away from the primary in iowa. but, still, the trend lines are just not good. >> and he is never going to be donald trump or ben carson.

it's just not his style. if that's what the voters are after this cycle around, it's not jeb bush. he can put out as many ads as he wants with bulb he's not going to have a character transformation, although he did have a beard before midday. >> always a sign of strength. >> he did also hit the soap box in iowa, where he continued to face tough questions about the iraq war and his family ties. >> first of all, the iraqis won our help. they want to know that we have skin in the game, that we're committed to this -- >> 2011. >> excuse me? >> -- out in 2011! >> we didn't have to get out in 2011. >> -- signed the deal! >> that was the expectation. everybody in iraq and washington knew this deal could have been expanded. now what we need to do -- now we need to do something else, which is to deal with the fact that we have islamic terrorists, organized as a caliphate, and the way that you take them out is to rebuild the iraqi

military, provide arms and support for the kurdish peshmerga, to reengage with the sunnis, to be able to have a strategy to take them out. the parlor game that's played -- you know, where you have 25, 30, or 40 people that are helping you with foreign policy, and if they have any executive experience, they've had to deal with two republican administrations. who are the people that were presidents? the last two republican -- this is kind of a tough game for me to be playing, to be honest with you. >> that's the toughest game for him to be playing, especially in an age of trump and an age of bernie sanders, where the electorate obviously wants a big change and he's got two relatives who have been president of the united states that he's kind of close to. let's go to washington, d.c., right now.

actually, very close to him. political reporter for "the washington post," ed o'keefe. you wrote over the weekend how jeb is failing and trying to escape his brother's shadow on iraq. of course, there's nothing you're going to be able to do when you get up there and somebody starts screaming from the arguments. by the way, those were democratic arguments that were being shouted at jeb, by the way. so i don't know that that's going to be a republican caucusgoer six months from now. but at the same time, jeb hasn't been able to get out of his own way on this issue for some time. why? >> i think you encapsulated it there, perfectly. it's simply family history. if it was someone else making this argument, yeah, the democrats would say, yeah, it's the bush doctrine all over again. the problem is, this guy's last name is bush. it will be impossible for him to ever really separate himself from that family legacy. and look at what he's proposing. a lot of it bears the marks of his brother. so the comparison is, you know, unavoidabl

unavoidable. >> and his top adviser would be george w. bush. that doesn't exactly ensure tme that this will be a break from what we saw for several years. >> and the campaign believes this is something that should be talked about in the middle east. they're, in essence, unapologetic about it. it allows them to look serious on trump that he's still a little shaky on. if he's taking his cues from tv generals versus guys who, yes, worked for their brother and father, they're more serious guys and a lot of them developed a more serious plan, that provides a contrast for those republicans who are skeptical of trump. >> by the way, don't knock tv generals. >> i'm joking. >> i spoke to him over the weekend. they're not in any sort of panic mode over trump. if trump is what people desire, they understand that they are not the answer. i think their strategy -- >> are they panicked about being down at like 7, 6%?

>> no, and you know jeb. panic is not in any of the -- >> what about his people, though? how can you not be pan picked being a front-runner one month, and the next month being fourth, fifth, sixth in national polls? >> i think that jeb and george w. bush, they're incredibly uncomfortable when they're out ahead. i worked for george w. bush when he was ahead of john kerry and -- >> jeb must be very comfortable right now. he's in fifth place. >> these guys work for everything they get, politically. so does 41. this is not a family with feeli entitlement. and the same way that hillary clinton is not damaged because she's hillary clinton, she's damaged because she squirreled away her e-mails on her yahoo! account or whatever, jeb bush is not paying a price because of his father or brother's legacy, he's having to report. the republican base is not unaware of his last name and not unaware of where we are on where we are in iraq. he has to muddle through some of

this difficult terrain about why we're there in the first place -- >> it shouldn't be this difficult. >> well, i think it's an important argument. >> he knew it was going to come. >> of course, he did. the speech at the reagan library -- >> yet he slightly fumbled the answers time and again. first of all, why do you put paul wolfowitz on your foreign policy advisory team when you know that's something you're going to flag up. and why not have come up with an answer that was smoother and keep repeating it. >> kathy, he doesn't do smooth. >> we need to go to break. we'll keep talking about this and much more on the other side of the break. ed o'keefe, thank you so much for being with us. still ahead, we'll remember the rights and legacy of civil rights leader, julian bond. reverend al sharpton joining the conversation much later for that. also, is president obama betting his foreign policy legacy on the ayatollahs in iran? bob woodward is here with his thoughts on the iran deal as we get closer and closer to the congressional vote on the agreement. and up next, more problems for hillary clinton this morning

as the number of classified e-mails found on her server surges. we'll take a look at her latest denial and her poor attempt to joke about the controversy that the fbi is now involved in. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's more than the cloud. it's security - and flexibility. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions from a trusted it partner. including cloud and hosting services - all backed by an industry leading broadband network and people committed to helping you grow your business. you get a company that's more than just the sum of it's parts. centurylink. your link to what's next. ♪

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and now get 12 gigs for $80 a month plus $20 per line. verizon. come home to a better network. first, i've said in the past that, you know, i used a single account for convenience. obviously, these years later, it doesn't look so convenient. i never sent classified material on my e-mail and i never received any that was marked classified. so, i'm going to let whatever this inquiry is go forward and we'll, you know, await the outcome of it. >> that was hillary clinton this weekend, responding to questions about her private e-mail server. now, "the washington times" reports that as many as 60

e-mails reviewed from the server have been flagged so far for possible classified information. according to the paper, most of them were at the lowest level of confidential. meanwhile, a new fox news poll shows many people are skeptical about her comments on her private server. 58 say clinton knowingly lied when she said there was no classified information in her e-mail. 33% say there's probably another explanation. and 54% say the country's national security was put at risk by her use of that server. at a democratic dinner, she seemed to make light of it all. >> by the way, you may have seen that i recently launched a snapchat account. i love it. i love it. those messages disappear all by themselves. >> ugh. i -- i'm in pain. well, for a lot of different

reasons. first of all, it's just so canned. it's just so prepackaged. it's just so, "add to drops of water and the flower sprouts into a joke." but also making light of this at a time when your own campaign, according to press reports, is starting to panic because they don't know where this fbi investigation goes, where the number of classified e-mails jump up from 4 to 60, allegedly, based on news reports, when she said that there were no classified documents. and what was the parsing you were talking about? >> that she has said that her -- she didn't get e-mails that were marked classified. >> right. everything is -- >> as opposed to just classified. >> everything is so parsed when she or anyone in her position knows full well, when you are sending information about drones to intel agencies, it's classified information, that is your responsibility. anybody in the intel industry will tell you to protect

classified information. and as we said before, federal agencies responsible for protecting this country have, over the past several months, been negligent in not doing what they have done in every other case, including general petraeus'. when you know there is classified information outside the building, outside where it's supposed to be, it's a quick two-step process. get the classified information and bring it inside the agency. and then you begin the investigation. and you see how this happened. and the fact that hillary clinton's lawyer had a phone drop of classified information and the state department did nothing about it. that nsa did nothing about it. the cia did nothing about it. the fbi did nothing about it. the white house did nothing about it. the justice department did nothing about it. this is stunning. and this is the news. and i would recommend the next time the public editor for "the new york times" says, "the new york times" might be taking it a little too hard on hillary

clinton, they need to look at the real scandal here. and the real scandal here is, that the entire federal government has allowed hillary clinton to do what nobody else in america would be allowed too. and has allowed her lawyer to carry around information that had classified information on it. some of it possibly highly sensitive. without bringing it in. because it's hillary clinton. the igs have a lot to be concerned about and they've started to mention it. and, yet, ed, despite all of this, she's telling jokes at a fund-raiser about destroying messages. >> yeah, i wouldn't tell a joke about it. i'm not sure that's the right thing to do. >> with the fbi, certainly. >> one thing i want to propose here, i think she goes slowly on this. because you heard what katty reported, that even the things

that maybe were classified were considered low level. >> some of them, some of them. >> let's wait -- >> there are two that we know that are top secret. >> this is going to come out. let's wait for the facts and "the new york times" should have waited for the facts, obviously, when they first broke the story about the so-called criminal investigation. this will all come out. it's a little like benghazi, joe. benghazi, seven investigations. >> that has nothing to do with -- >> thouno, no, but everyone was pre-judging benghazi. all of those investigations found no wrongdoing by hillary clinton or anyone else in the chain. so all i'm saying is, let's go slowly. this will come out. if there's something here, this will come out. but i think we ought to go slowly. >> if you were talking about to hillary clinton now, how would you advise her to respond? >> well, i would have told her at the very beginning to give the server over. when you're reluctant to give anything over, people begin to think that you've got something to hide. get it out there because it's

going to -- they should have known. >> when did the fbi go in and seize the server? >> it shouldn't have been necessary. >> there was classified information on the server. there was classified information on the thumb drive. why was this a voluntary exercise for six months? why -- where were you, fbi? where were you, justice department? where were you, state department? you had classified information outside your control. a private citizen had classified information. you had no idea what was out there. and you did nothing for six months and allowed a citizen to decide whether the classified information was going to be taken over or not? explain that to americans. you need to explain that to americans. because somebody is being political and possibly endangering america's national security. mark halperin, what was the response at the fair this weekend on the hillary clinton

e-mail controversy? >> reporter: i agree with you on the substance of this stuff, on the politics of it in iowa, when she told me that joke, there were people around me who gasped, because it's not a joking matter for a lot of people. she said here at the fair, real voters don't talk to her about this. they never bring it up. well, real people never bring up to me that i need to lose some weight. they might talk about it to other people, but never say it to me. i will tell you, here in iowa, talking to people at the fair, talking to elite democrats, day bring her e-mails up to me. extraordinarily high degree, high frequency of people saying, what's the deal? it's why joe biden, i think, why maybe al gore and others are saying, do we have a problem here? are we heading towards nominating someone by consensus who has this big problem? i have never in my career dealt with a presidential campaign who's as unresponsive to basic questions. governor rendell said, turn over the server. that's not the only issue. there's lots of facts that they

won't respond to on a daily basis. you can ask them every day, what are the answers to these questions, at a time when people want transparency, she's still an extraordinarily strong candidate, a great public servant. she's, i think, right now, the most likely person to be elected president, but she is not dealing with this issue. and between the fbi and the congressional investigations, this is not only not going away, but it shouldn't go away on the substance, and voters do care about it. >> mark halperin, the problem is, there just aren't good answers, apparently, to a lot of those questions. so they just -- >> but i think she's got to bite the bullet and give the bad answers. >> you may be right. >> all right. coming up, a man who probably knows more about washington scandals than anything else. legendary reporter, "washington post" associate editor, bob woodward will be here and we'll be talking the iran deal and barack obama, when we return. ♪ ♪

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it's time to take a look at the morning papers. we begin with "the wall street journal." the pentagon is set to increase the number of daily drone strikes across the globe by 50%. because we haven't had enough drone flights across the globe. the first major uptick since 2011. by the way, if you're reading that, tongue is planted firmly in cheek there. the drones are going to operate in places like the ukraine, iraq, syria, and the south china sea in north africa and the drones will be performi ining surveillance and lethal strikes. the air force oversees much of

the operations right now, but they're expected to expand to the army, special ops command, and even contractors. >> "the new york times" reports new information about a decades-long partnership between the national security agency and telecom giant at&t. nsa documents released by edward snowden and obtained by "the times" show that at&t has helped in a broad range of activities over the years and has provided the agency access to billions of e-mails. it's long been known that telecom companies have assisted the nsa in information gathering, but "the times" describes this particular relationship as being especially productive. with one document appraising at&t's, quote, extreme willingness to help. >> and from the "usa today," at the end of the final round of sunday's pga championship, it was jason day who hosted the wannamaker trophy after a record-setting performance. day earned his first career major, ending at 5 under 67 on the final day and he becomes the

first player to finish a major championship at 20 under par. not too bad. runner-up, jordan spieth takes over as the world's top ranking from roy mcelrocelroy, who fini 17th. and what a year spieth has had. >> and in the world of tennis, from the bbc, the world's top-ranked tennis player said he was feeling dizzy on the court because he said he smelled weed wafting from the stands. novak djokovic complained to . e he went on to lose in yesterday's final against andy murray. no celebrations from the brits around the table. thrilled, andy murray beat djokovic, finally. >> big news! must have been the weed. but if you're in montreal, what are you expecting? >> for a brit to win at something, it had to be something. >> coming up next, he compares donald trump's candidacy to a

roulette wheel. bob woodward says you never know where it's going to land. the pulitzer prize winner joins us next on "morning joe." we're also going to be talking about iran and president obama, when we return. imagine - she won't have to remember passwords. or obsess about security. she'll log in with her smile. he'll have his very own personal assistant. and this guy won't just surf the web. he'll touch it. scribble on it. and share it. because these kids will grow up with windows 10.

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angie's list is there for all your projects, big and small. pretty. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. joining us now, pulitzer prize winning associative editor of "the washington post," bob woodward. let's get this comment. i want you to listen to what madeleine albright has said recently. the "washington examiner" unearthed this story last week. it goes back to the year 2000, and what secretary of state madeleine albright had to say about numerous security issues, including a missing laptop. albright assembled hundreds of state department stuff with more joining from around the world on satellite for a speech. quote, i don't care how skilled you are as a diplomat, how brilliant you may be at meetings, or how creative you are as an administer, dr. albright said, in stern tones,

reminiscent of her days as a georgetown university professor, perhaps. if you are not professional about security, you are a failure. she went on, you may have seen reports indicating that i am furious about these incidents, well, i am. and i hope that you are, too. that was madeleine albright. >> and bob woodward, obviously, you can hear that not only from a lot of career diplomats, you also hear that off the record from an awful lot of people in the intel agency, who just cannot believe how sloppily all of this was handled. >> it's extraordinary. and, again, it's the volume. 60,000 e-mails and hillary clinton has said 30,000 of them, half, were personal and they were deleted. who decided that? what's on those e-mails? i would love to have all 60,000, read them, it would be a character study about her personal life and, also, what

she did as secretary of state. and let's step back for a moment the big question about hillary clinton is, who is she. is she this secretive, hidden person, or is she this valiant public servant. look at those 60,000 e-mails, and you're going to get some answers. and there's a hydraulic pressure always in the system here. you've got the fbi, you've got the inspector generals, you've got lots of people in government who are furious, because they spent hours being trained, like the example of madeleine albright. you have to be careful about this. hillary clinton went in -- i mean, what was the origin? who knew about this idea of using a private server? when i first read about that, it's unimaginable. >> and bob, that's what i hear.

when you talk to people in the fbi and other intel -- and people in intel agency, and even people that have worked at the state department, they are furious that this was ever allowed to happen in the first place. and that they didn't immediately seize -- we've been talking about this for a couple of days. they're all asking the same question. why did they allow hillary clinton and david kindle, her lawyer, to allow whether they were going to turn over that classified information or not? i think this is unprecedented. >> well, it certainly is, but, i mean, follow the trail here. you know, there are all of these e-mails. well, they were sent to someone or someone sent them to her. so if things have been erased here, there's a way to go back to who originated these e-mails or who received them from

hillary clinton. so you've got a massive amount of data. it, in a way, reminds me of the nixon tapes. thousands of hours of secretly recorded conversations that nixon thought were exclusively hers, his, that he was not going to get them. hillary clinton initially took that position. i'm not turning this over. there's going to be no cooperation. now they're cooperating. but, this is -- this has to go on a long, long time. and the answers are probably not going to be pretty. >> bob, is there any legal jeopardy that her staffers would face, anywhere from a senior staffer who may have been aware of this or a low-level staffer, who may have simply been instructed to do something that turns out to be illegal, like take off the classification? >> you know, i don't think that's really the question, but

that's also a possibility. >> if you're a staffer it is, though. i worked in the white house staff during investigations. it can be a scary place when an investigation like this picks up steam and the fbi gets involved. >> that's exactly right. that's why this, you know, who knows how long this is going to go on. but, the other issue here is, for hillary clinton to go out, as she did, in recent days and say, this is politics. this is dirty politics. they're trying to smear me in an unfair way that dog will not hunt, at all. you have got barack obama's government now investigating her and looking at this. now, at the same time, nothing's been proven to be illegal and rendell there had a good point that, you know, kind of slow down. i think in the media and political environment we're in, where everything is driven by

impatience and speed, that's going to not be possible. but, they're going to have to get some answers. >> and you are right. that charge that it's a partisan attack, that dog won't hunt. because it's "the new york times" and the fbi now that are going after her. not rush limbaugh and breitbart. we've got sam stein with a question. sam? z >> well, i just wanted to, sort of -- because bob knows this stuff better than anyone here, no offense to you, joe. but we talked a little bit about the petraeus similarities here. the clinton people will say, it doesn't work there. there was no leaking to classified intel on people who are not supposed to be on the receiving end of classified intel. my question to you, how does this classification system work? what are the responsibilities placed on public officials such as david petraeus or hillary clinton or anyone else lower in

the food chain, which is where you see most of the trouble. what are the responsibilities placed on those people to make sure the classified information doesn't get out to people in the public? >> the first level of scrutiny is common sense. and, you know, in the world where petraeus was dealing either as a general or cia director or hillary clinton was dealing as state department, almost everything is classified one way or another. and so you have to have some systems to protect it and you have to use common sense. sam, you're asking a good yes. how does this work? easier to describe the creation of the universe. it is -- there are literally, everyone, when i was a lieutenant in the united states navy, in the '60s, i had classification authority. i could say, oh, yes, this is top secret. so, almost anyone can do it, but there's got to be a common sense

approach here. and the idea of the server and this excuse, oh, it was all for convenience, isn't going to work. >> all right. bob, stay with us. we want to get your thoughts on the nuclear deal with iran, coming up. we'll be right back. it's more than a network and the cloud.

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coming up at the top of the hour, 2016 candidates hit the iowa state fair, but one word

sums up the weekend story, trump. he's getting much more specific with his plans, his other campaigns reportedly start to hit the panic button, including hillary's campaigns over e-mails. plus, how a computer glitch brought travel to a standstill from new york to florida over the weekend. what does it say about our airline infrastructure when a software upgrade can trigger such a widespread shutdown. we've got a former fbi cyberexpert weighing in on that. bob woodward, also, straight ahead on iran. i think she tried to kill us.

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energy system. there's donald trump. what can we do. >> bernie! bernie! bernie! >> i apologize, we left the helicopter at home. it's in the garage. >> it's in the garage. >> welcome back to "morning joe," katty kay is with us, nicole wallace, ed rendell, sam stein, and bob woodward still with us as well. and katty, a lot of news in iowa this weekend. most of it surrounding trump. >> i think bernie sanders and donald trump are the only people having fun in this race. they look like they're having a blast while everybody else isn't. but a lot of news this weekend. >> that may be the secret to their success, right? >> maybe. it was the first major national poll since the highly rated republican debate. that's just come out. and stop us if you've heard this before. guess what, yeah, donald trump, up in the lead. trump is first at 25%, roughly

where he stood before the debate, while retired neurosurgeon ben carson rockets into second, nearly doubling his pre-debate support. ted cruz climbs to third place after being tied for fifth. and jeb bush has slipped six points since that debate and scott walker has dropped three. over the weekend, trump talked about his durability in the polls. >> i don't think i've made mistakes. i mean, every time somebody says i made a mistake, they do the polls and my numbers go up. i guess i haven't made any mistakes. look, when i said mexico asce ascending, i was talking about illegal immigration, the people understood it, even though the press didn't want them to. my numbers went up. when i talked about john mccain, i was talking about how he treats the veteran. they did a poll, who do you like better, john mccain or trump, and i swamp him in the polls. and this last thing with fox, i love roger ailes, but all you

have to do is ask roger ailes, who do you think won? >> he thinks he won. he talked policy specifics rolling out his point-by-point approach on immigration. >> they're making a fortune. mexico is doing very well -- >> as we discussed earlier, they're not doing great. >> let's see. they have the money. they will pay for the wall. they're sending drugs and taking money out. they're making a lot of money. mexico's making a lot of money. i'm a big fan of mexico. i'm a huge fan of the mexican people. i have thousands of mexican people working for me right now and have over the years. but they have to pay for the wall. and we need the wall. do you know that ten years ago, hillary and everybody wanted a wall. >> people did want the wall then. >> now they say, it's too expensive. one of the reasons, environmental impact statements. >> you believe you'll be able to streamline that? >> i'm the best builder in the country. >> you have to get rid of birth by citizenship -- >> you have to. >> you believe that they're to do this? >> you have no choice. you have no choice.

the executive order gets resc d rescinded -- >> you'll rescind that one too? the dream act executive order? >> we have to make a whole new set of standards. so when people come in -- >> so you'll split up families and deport children? >> no, we'll keep the families together. we have to keep them together -- >> but out? >> they have to go. >> what if they have no place to go? >> we will work with them. they have to go. chuck, we either have a country or we don't have a country. >> trump also spoke to chuck about where he gets his recommendations on american military policy. >> who do you talk to for military advice right now? >> well, i watch the shows. i really see a lot of great -- you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows and you have the generals -- >> so you do -- but is there a go-to for you? every presidential candidate has a go-to? >> probably, there are two or three. i like bolton. i think he's a tough cookie, knows what he's talking about. jacobs -- >> you mean ambassador bolton?

>> yes and colonel jack jacobs. >> ed rendell, how do you watch that? i watch tv? >> it's a good as place as anyone. >> we have some great ones here. colonel jake jacobs, a great guy to listen to. >> but that's trump saying, i have this blue ribbon commission of all these people you line up on a page and hardly ever talk to any of them. the guy sitting at home or the woman sitting at home thinks, gre great, yeah, i'll take that. >> anybody who thinks that through a little bit has got to say, good god. and like katty said, it looks like he just pulled bolton out of the air. the first name that came to his head. if you're a voter in the long run, when it comes time to the nitty-gritty, that stuff has got to make you a little bit scared. >> listen, i love ambassador bolton as much as anybody. i think he's fantastic. but i didn't even get the impression that this was someone he talked to. i got the impression this is

someone he enjoyed his commentary on fox news. >> right, a name he knew. and in terms of, you know, what a lot of people think about the wisdom in washington, they think we all just sit around and talk on television. >> bob woodward, we've been talking about it for some time. the political world is upside down. dru donald trump seems to be flying his plane upside down, but it seems to be working. you've covered a few elections in your lifetime. try to put in perspective for us? >> it's a great question. and you were in congress, joe, in 1996. you may recall the republican nominating process. there were two outsiders who appeared. pat buchanan, the former nixon aide, bomb thrower, and steve forbes, the magazine genius who was, in a sense, if you look, you know, what is trump? he's both of those. he's the bomb thrower and he's

the guy who says, i've got the business experience to fix things. look what happened in 1996, which i'm sure you remember well. buchanan literally won the new hampshire primary, beat bob dole by one point. steve forbes was on the cover of "time" and "newsweek." that was 20 years ago, when that was important. and it was a big deal. and there was this sense that everything's been turned upside down, and then look what happened in the -- almost all of the other voting, dole won, hands down. and i think ed rendell's got it right. when you get down to the nitty gritty, you've got this opportunity for people to voice their anger and their distress,

all very legitimate. but when it gets down to the nitty-gritty of governing, people are going to say, and the polls show this, not trump to govern, there are other people who have much better prospect of actually performing. >> well, we shall see. you can go back to august four years ago, when people like michele bachmann were in first place. i just -- there seems to be with trump more durable. you know, we had a new leader every week by four years ago. it was herman cain, then he dropped. then it was michele bachmann, then she dropped. >> santorum. >> it was rick santorum, then he dropped. you had rick perry for a couple of weeks and then he dropped. newt gingrich, up/down. this has been the summer of trump. and there have been three times in his political death has been reported. and sam stein, that political death never followed. and that has to give opposing

campaigns a little bit of pause. >> i agree. i think it's a different game when this field gets narrowed a little bit. i mean, we're talking about, what, 17 candidates, 16 candidates. i think when it becomes a three or four-person race, it gets to be a different equation. i have a quick equation for nicole, a thought experience based on what trump said to chuck todd. had sarah palin in 2008 said that she got her military advice by watching cable news, what would the reaction have been? >> she would have been destroyed? >> she would have been destroyed. and she gave a similar answer when she asked what she read and kind of fumbled the question. i don't think his answer was anymore elegant than hers, but she was destroyed for it. >> so what gives here, then? >> i think that she had as much support among the republican base as he does, so that's not the variable. but i think he's being treated differently by the media. and i think he brings behind him this sort of international fame of being a tv celebrity and an international businessman that she didn't have. >> he's got 30 years of success. he's built buildings all over the world.

>> he's been a celebrity, a business man. >> if the biggest knock against donald trump's success is that elites in manhattan bitch about him going around being worth $9 billion. he's been a success about about everything that he -- there's a big difference between that and sarah palin who was a governor for 1 1/2 years. >> and he does build good buildings. no question about it. >> but also what mark was saying last night, right? he's not afraid of anybody. >> neither was sarah palin. neither was palin. i think the political persona there parallels. but what's behind trump is that he's been known for decades in the business community and in the entertainment community and in new york where he lives. >> i talk about my brother, who is a trump supporter. i remember my brother buying "the art of the deal" when he was right out of college and starting his business career. you have 30 years of that sort of relationship with a lot of people -- >> a lot of the public. >> middle america, who aren't in the political class, that comes

back to help you when a lot of people in washington and new york are attacking you. let's go right now to msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt. she's with us from iowa with a behind-the-scenes look at the fair. kac kacey, what a weekend? >> reporter: there's a pretty standard way to do the state fair. come and hang out with senator chuck grassley, but none of that was necessary if you're donald trump. at first, it seemed like any other year at the iowa state fair. >> eat fried oreo. >> reporter: there was a clinton eating a porkchop on a stick. >> i highly recommend the chop on the stick. >> reporter: and a bush attacking a clinton from the "des moines register" soapbox. >> writing an ebook about my e-mails. i think we need a lot more transparency in politics today. >> reporter: that was before donald trump showed up. taking kids for a ride in his helicopter. >> let's give them a helicopter

ride, okay? right? good? >> reporter: cruising in on a golf cart. >> people are tired of politicians, they're tired of incompetence. >> reporter: trump was mobbed. >> give 'em hell, donald! >> this is what happens when mr. trump visits the iowa state fair. all chaos breaks lose. >> thank you. >> reporter: trump literally overshadowed clinton, whose throng of admirers got a flyby from the trump contincopter. bernie sandered joked about it with his huge crowd. zp >> i apologize, we left the helicopter at home. >> reporter: it's not the usually way of winning in iowa. >> it's a caucus state, so it requires a slow, steady buildup of people who want to not just vote for you, but commit to you. >> reporter: there's nothing slow and steady about trump. >> i'm doing well, leading in every poll, the little ones and big ones. i'm leading, so importantly to me, i'm leading in iowa.

>> reporter: but at this point, there are no signs the red-hot gop front-runner is about to flame out. >> i don't think i've made any mistakes. but so far, you would have to say, hasn't worked out badly, right? huh? >> reporter: it hasn't worked out badly so far. one of those little kids that was on that helicopter, it was reported, looked up at him and said, are you batman, and trump looked at him and said, i am batman. >> oh, my god. that is so -- >> forget being president. he's batman. >> thank you, kasie, what a wild weekend. now, ed, you've spent a lot of time around trump through the years. i don't know if you've spent time with him in personal settings or whatever. i've been with him off and on over a decade. not a lot, but a dozen times. and i will tell you why donald trump works in the crowd is if you're ever with trump when he's at the trump tower or if you're ever with trump at a golf course, or if you're ever with trump like walking down the

street, donald trump with no cameras on, a kid comes out and asks for an autograph, he'll sit down and go, do you want to grow up to be like me. everybody's laughing and takes pictures. i guess what i'm saying is what you see at the iowa state fair, like, it's working, because that's what donald's been doing for his entire life. he is what my mom would call a good-time charlie. a guy that's like, life's a party, he's having a good time, he's relaxing. it's strange to say of a billionaire developer in manhattan, he never meets a stranger. and he's got no problem hugging them and loving on them immediately or starting a fight with them if they want to fight him. >> but he is an incrediblincred personable guy. if you have dinner with donald trump, it's a constant stream of people coming over to the table. >> what did hillary clinton say

when they ask, why did you go to his wedding? because he's a good time, he's fun! we bring this up because not to say that donald trump is a good guy and will be the next president of the united states, but to explain these guys. to explain why -- hillary clinton can't do this. jeb bush can't do this. marco rubio can't do this. rand paul can't do this. there are very few candidates ever -- bill clinton can do this. >> right. >> ronald reagan can do this, but there are very few candidates who can do this and that's what makes donald trump powerful at places like the iowa state fair. i've got to say, jeb kind of looked like eeyore there going, well, it's slow and steady -- but he does make a good point. when i first ran in 1994, i would see my opponents waving at state fairs and i would sit and laugh. i would say, you wave at state fairs. i would drive to neighborhoods and knock on doors and grind out the votes. they were waving at a thousand

people. i knew who was going to be voting in the next republican primary. i was knocking on doors, handing -- and very quietly saying, may i please put my sign in your yard? >> and donald building an organization to get those caucus voters to the polls? >> yes, he is. by now, he is. and what i heard yesterday from halperin is most interesting, he's taking that big blue trump bus and he's going where i would go back in the 1990s, every time i wanted to get people, i would put up a cardboard table in front of walmart and i would just sit there all day saturday and all my constituents would come in. at least the ones that voted for me would come in and out of there. that's what he's doing. that's how he's organizing, and that works. >> that does work. you make a good point about jeb and how you turn people out. this is not trump's all by himself. this is going to be a republican contest that will have ups and

downs. four years ago, there was a new person every week, i think trump will prevent that from happening, but there may be a new person in second place every week. that's what jeb's counting on. trump is, to me, the guy that matches the moment. even the hat, making america great again. the message, the persona, the guy that -- >> do you know what that is? that's anti-obama. barack obama has been preaching the limits of american power and american exceptionalism for almost eight years now. saying we have to strike a deal with iran, when, actually, we had all the chips on our side of the table. iran needed the deal more than we needed the deal. and what donald trump talks about is, in this era when everybody's talking about america in decline, he's saying, no, we're not. >> he talks about winning again. >> we're going to win. and whether you're a democrat or a republican or an independent or a millennial or a senior citizen, you want to hear that. >> exactly. >> and he talks about winning, but when you start listening to what he says, how he's going to

win, you know, there are a lot of practical issues with the proposals he has for beating i islamic state, for example. i'm going to take them out. what does that mean? we're going to take out the oil fields. the oil prices have already collapsed 50%. that's not where they're getting revenue right now. >> truth be known, you can say the same thing about ronald reagan in 1980s. ronald reagan asked how are you going to get the hostages back, and he said, we're going to treat them like the terrorists that we are and bomb them and get them back. >> but it's fair to be pushing somebody when he makes statements like, we're going to win, we're going to take out isis. how? there has to be policy to back that up. >> let's go right now to political reporter for "the washington post," robert costa. robert, what a weekend. wow. put it into perspective for us. and why don't you answer, because i heard you also talking about donald trump building an organization out in iowa in a way that has to be scaring a lot

of his opponents. >> it is. and they see trump's iowa operation, they see someone who has this bus going to iowa parking lots and bringing in nontraditional voters. it will be a relatively quiet for monday and tuesday for trump. he's going on jury duty in manhattan. his campaign tells me, he'll continue to target new hampshire. on wednesday, trump's likely going to have an event there. they're also looking at south carolina. they think if this field is still crowded after iowa and new hampshire, they look at newt gingrich, 2012, running as the anti-media candidate. they think they can have a network there. they have a state rep, jim meryl, helping them out. >> so trump leaves iowa. when you say this was, by far, the biggest response you've seen in your two cycles of covering presidential campaigns? >> it was a spectacle unlike anything i've ever seen. but there is an interesting development behind the scenes -- >> can i write that down. "a spectacle unlike anything i've ever seen." it's like the magical mystery tour. >> i haven't seen much. i've only been covering it for a

few years. >> but that is a perfect way to describe this. it's sort of like a peter mack sort of post. a spectacle unlike anything i've ever seen. mark halperin saying the same thing and has been covering campaigns for over 25 years. why is it so different, robert? >> there's a candid humanity to trump in the way he campaigns. and people are not just laookin for an outsider, they're looking for somebody who doesn't have corporate talking points. that's what i've heard. but the thing most spreinterest to me, trump said he wanted to wait until september to release his immigration plan. instead he released it over the weekend. they needed to move quickly to add policy meat to the bones. >> let's go back to bob woodward. donald trump would say, it's a done deal, it didn't make a lot of sense. also a lot of republicans and supporters of israels saying the

same things. take us behind the scenes on that deal. >> first of all, you're talking so much about trump -- >> jump in! >> i would urge everyone, including you, joe, put on the brakes a little bit. yes, it's a percespectacle, it'e pat buchanan, a bomb thrower emerges. this is different and it is a different time. but the question for us, and i think, ultimately, for voters, is, can he govern? does he have the experience? does he have some way to just strategically think through the domestic and foreign policy problems and come up with some solutions? and, i mean, what comes out of his mouth -- >> nobody here is suggesting that donald trump is going to be the next president of the united states, but he is dominating the entire scene in a way that is making all the other republican candidates react to him, and the democratic candidates reacting to him. >> certainly, but in a sense,

we're covering the spectacle and in the polls, and ultimately, it's a governing question. and i know you would agree with that. >> well, of course, i would. and you don't get to govern if you are at 4% or 5%, like marco rubio and scott walker. we could talk about scott walker, but there's really little to talk about this morning. >> okay. >> this is the monday afternoon the iowa state fair, and this guy who has no policy prescriptions, according to the establishment, is sitting at 25%. and jeb bush, who should be running away from this, according to the establishment, is sitting at 9%. i'm not exactly sure, bob, what you have us talking about at the top of this hour. >> okay, what i'm talking about is, and you know, pat buchanan -- >> i remember pat. >> pat buchanan won the new hampshire primary. and there was this sense, my god, politics has been turned upside down. turned out not to be the case. and i think the questions -- i mean, i've watched trump -- i've

known him a little bit. and, you know, he will literally say anything. >> right. >> look at some of the comments he's made. look at the contradictions and so forth. and is somebody like that going to sit in the oval office and just kind of say, okay, well, let's bomb here or let's do this or let's -- >> i guess, bob, what i don't understand is -- >> that's dangerous! >> yeah, i don't understand what point you're trying to make. because i don't think any of us around this table would suggest that we think that donald trump has said anything since he's been on the campaign trail that would translate into workable policy in the white house. he's trotted out one position paper on immigration. but, yes, we've also said, this is august. we are six months away. we also talking about what happened four years ago in august, where you'd have a different candidate each week. i think what most of us are saying is, this appears to be different and he's going to be a

bit more durable and how do republicans, democrats, and independents alike respond to that? >> look, it's great fireworks and the pyrotechnic are -- yeah, you're all sitting around saying, boy, this is a great show. and it is a great show. i'm saying, also cover the substance. also focus on -- >> we do -- >> on some of the other things -- >> we do, bob. >> i know you do. but i'm saying -- >> we do cover the substance. and you know, it's not just donald trump and the coverage of donald trump, it's nicole wallace' fathers who's voted for republicans all the time who's going to vote for donald trump. it's my brother, an educated, very successful business person, who was a consultant, who speaks to consultant every day, all across the country, who we're talking about voting for druona trump, and yes, we are all scratching our heads, wondering why, but this is more than just

a story about the craziness of the candidate. >> and joe, this is an opportunity, i think, to point out what people are responding to. someone who is respected and seen as much as bob woodward has seen is saying, why are you talking about it? every person who's excited about trump hears that and says, you don't understand what you need out of his politics. we're talking about donald trump because we're fascinated him, you know him and you've known him for decades, but he has answered something people are so hungry for. and to describe why people why we're covering him, is because he is speaking to the voters in a way that no other politician is. i remember when obama emerged on the scene, no one thought he had the experience to govern, but man, did he prove a lot of people wrong. so i think to ignore trump is to ignore something very real and hungry in the political -- >> wait a minute, wait a minute,

please. >> bob, something that, quite frankly -- >> i'm not saying to ignore him. >> okay. >> i'm not saying ignore him. i'm saying, i mean, you're sitting there and kind of saying, we're not saying he's going to be president, but, then, oh, the brother is voting and this person is voting, you know, that's fine and true -- >> doesn't mean he's going to be president. >> are you offended by the fact that my brother is voting for him? >> though. >> i'm trying to figure out what point you're trying to make, bob? >> i'm trying to make the point that whoever is going to secede barack obama is going to have to govern. and we need in a very serious way to ask the question. >> we all agree with that. >> politico asked a thing about 199 things that donald trump has said. is and if you read that list, he's taken every side of --

>> it's shocking, i've read it. >> -- every issue, it's true. and we ought to be troubled by that. >> there are many, many people who are troubled by that, and that is what makes the story so fascinating and why we say he's flying a plane upside down and still in first place. because what we are trying to figure out, what the establishment is trying to figure out is why is he connecting the way he's connecting when you can look at those 199 quotes that would have destroyed any other candidate, including pat buchanan, before him. i don't think we're going to have time to talk about iran. i wanted to talk to you about iran. but you just -- you were so obsessed with donald trump, that's all you wanted to talk about. i'm joking, bob. can we get you back the next day or two and talk about iran? in fact, we'll be down in d.c. i'd love to talk about it for 30 minutes with you. >> indeed. >> fantastic. >> thanks for bearing with me.

>> i'm just a simple country lawyer. it sometimes takes me a time to figure things out. thank you so much. appreciate it. coming up next on "morning joe," thousands of passengers were stranded over the weekend because of a computer glitch. is the country in need of a major digital overhaul? that question answers itself, although it's awkwardly award. you're watch "morning joe." we'll be right back. (vo) what's your dog food's first ingredient? corn? wheat? in new purina one true instinct grain free, real chicken is always #1. no corn, wheat or soy. support your active dog's whole body health

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i really wanted to talk about iran with bob woodward. >> listen, it struck me listening to bob, who i revere. >> we love him. >> i have all his books. >> that we are sometimes talking to ourselves and donald trump is talking to the american people. and i think bob woodward made that point for us, right? >> he just wanted to keep talking about donald trump. >> and i think the frustration that some people feel about why he's connecting misses the point that he has connected. >> right. >> trump has connected. we should accept it, move on, and try to figure out why. >> i want to know why. >> we started the show at 6:01 with mark halperin from iowa saying in his interview at "meet the press" yesterday or with

chuck todd, he said, seven to nine things that would have upended any other candidacies, yet his poll numbers are secure. he is rising among the american people. that is the wonder of trumpism that we're trying to understand and explore here without disparaging his supporters. >> we've talked all morning about the inconsistencies in what he said, too. flight operations should be mostly back to normal this morning after an faa computer glitch wreaked havoc across the eastern coast. tens of millions of passengers were affected as hundreds of flights were canceled and more were delayed. stts likely related to a radar facility in virginia and the upgrades have been disabled. joining us now, sean henry. sean, what happens in america every time, it seems, we have an upgrade, there's a glitch, and people get stranded at upgrades for days. >> we see upgrades in glitches all the time, in companies around the world. when it happens in the faa, it impacts tens of thousands of

people around the country. that's when we see it on the front page. this type of thing happens pretty regularly. it's unfortunate when there's this type of a conflict. faa says it's a glitch, some specific issue with the software. we're not really sure at this point. >> how antiquated is our system? >> i think the system is fragile and we continue to build upon it? >> fragile in what way? the foundation is federragile ae keep building on top of it? >> it's almost like building on top of a foundation that's like sand and we continue to build more functionality. there are more and more devices that are connecting to the networks. and they don't always interact the way they should. >> what should we do? tear it down and start all over again? build that good foundation? >> there are some certain policies or procedures that organizations should be using. when you're rolling out a new software update, it should really be done in a controlled environment. a small subset of your network, so you make sure that it works before you actually roll it out

across the enterprise. >> does our frail system make flying less safe for americans? >> you know, this is, i think, indicative of what the entire infrastructure looks like, not just in the aviation sector, but across our entire infrastructure. whether it's safe or not. certainly, if the faa is not able to communicate there are certain problems, they're rerouting aircraft, et cetera. it doesn't impact specific operations and talking about airlines falling out of the sky, but the ability to keep things on time, to keep schedules, and to make sure airlines are flying in a safe manner, that -- >> so that explains laguardia. >> and it's going to get way, way worse. i spoke to some airline officials recently who said in ten year's time, three days a week will be like the night before thanksgiving. can you imagine what it's going to be like flying in this country. and the crime here is that everybody knows that spending money on infrastructure in america would be good for jobs and you could borrow zero percent, virtually for the last

few years. >> the economic reason to do it, the impact on our economy of thousands of people missing flights, why doesn't that drive more action? >> you would think it could. and the one issue we may be missing, this was apparently an innocent glitch of software conflict, but there are adversary groups that are looking to target infrastructure. when you think about them getting in and disabling and disrupting the capability for organizations to communicate, to disrupt -- >> terrifying. >> it's incredibly challenging for us and one of the most significant risks that we face. it's tall infrastructure. >> shawn henry, thank you so much for coming and having the discipline to talk about infrastructure instead of donald trump. coming up next, he spent his life fighting for justice and equality. we'll be looking at the life and legacy of julian bond, straight ahead. le announcer ] whether it takes 200,000 parts, ♪ 800,000 hours of supercomputing time, 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights.

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the world lost a pillar of the civil rights movement this weekend with the passing of julian bond, who died at 75 after a short illness. bond was one of the original leaders of the student non-violent coordinating committee, and chaired the naacp. he remained a lifelong activist for equality and justice. joining us now, host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. also, the director of the film

"rosenwald," she was a key friend of julian. and april ryan also with us. al, let me start with you. everyone weighing in on julian bond's passing. the president, justice and equality was the mission that spanned his life. >> julian bond was the quintessential civil rights leader. he was an activist and an intellectual and an organizer. all at the same time. i grew up in the immediate generation behind he and john lewis and jesse jackson. so i would study them. and jesse jackson ended up mentoring me. and these were like our heroes. julian bond literally was the first african-american that was put up for a nomination of vice president of the united states in the late '60s, before i went to high school. and he was denied his seat in the georgia legislature because he opposed the war in vietnam

and he ended up fighting it all the way to the supreme court. so you've got to remember, in this era where mohammad ali refused to go to war, lost his title, julian bond being unseated, it was all one thing that really impacted not only their generation, but mine and those generations to come. he was the one that became part of that symbol. he and john lewis and jackson, was to us what martin luther king was to them. >> and to say that he was a game changer in the field of civil rights and social justice would be a massive understatement. >> and he never stopped. we don't have vote rights in the district. i filmed a commercial with him, which was in every taxi saying, voting rights for the district of columbia. that was an important issue. for gay rights, the reverend and i were just talked aboing about.

he faced some hostility but made sure marriage equality was an important issue. and i remember the day that he and pam, his wife, went to the supreme court case and the victory we all celebrated. he was very concerned about how voting rights had been turned back. as a matter of fact, i was saying to his wife yesterday, you know, pam, in his honor, they should have a bill in congress so these vote rights that were established 50 years ago wouldn't be turned back. he would love that. he never stopped voting or working for some kind of civil rights, right, al? >> no doubt about it. and i think you can't take lightly what he said. when he came out for gay rights, lbgt rights, it wasn't popular, in the black community. he was for immigration when it wasn't popular. he was a true progressive, who, in many ways, influenced by -- >> like you said, even when it was deeply unpopular with his own base. deeply unpopular in the black

church. >> that is the test of leadership, when you go against what was popular in your own base. i think that's who he was. >> and april, he also founded the southern poverty law center, obviously, an extraordinarily important organization for civil rights leaders throughout the years, out of montgomery, alabama. >> yeah, yeah, he did. he did that plus so many things. and just until recently, julian bond, again, was still championing for everyone, like your guests are saying and reverend al is saying. he had such a wonderful career. i remember him as a journalist during the bush years, as someone who tried to be above the fray. i remember so vividly that he and then president george w. bush were having a war of words during the time of president george w. bush's administration. and the administration did not want to allow the president to go to the naacp convention. and i think the greater good,

looking at the greater good, julian bond and the president got together and they ultimately had the president at the convention, and julian bond even greeted the president. i remember president george w. bush saying to me that he would never go to the convention because of some of the things that jewulian bond would say abt him, and ultimately it was about the greater good. i think that's what his life was about. and even most recently at the naacp convention in philadelphia, julian bond has a new book out, many people don't even realize, it's called black leaders on leadership. and julian bond gave the book to president barack obama during that convention. and he wanted president obama to see that book and to read the book. and julian bond is someone who commuted with the masses. he was someone who sat high, yet stayed with the average everyday american. he was great on social media and he even was trying to get a verification on his twitter county before his death. >> he should have gotten that.

>> that's the true! >> aviva, what i liked about him was that he was a fighter. i actually, when i was flying from atlanta up to washington, to go back to congress, i was sitting next to him and i was excited to be sitting next to this legend and i kept trying to talk to him about the glory days. and the second he found out i was a republican in congress, rrr. so for an hour and a half, julian was going after me. and you know what i said, yes, sir. and i kept trying to -- but he wasn't interested in talking about the glory days. an hour and a half. and i get off that plane going, i like him. >> and what's interesting, and also, the environment was very important to him. but his style. he was actually, on a personal level, very funny, very intellectual. i know we walk around, you know, i'd often go to the movies with he and his wife. invariably, someone would come up and say, are you julian bond?

he would smile and give them time, and he would usually say, every day. i'm julian bond, every day. every day, he was for a cause. and in the film, "rosenwald," which he inspired me to make -- >> and he promoted the film a lot everywhere he went. >> the day before he died, his wife told me, he told his technician, go see the movie. the movie is such a positive story about african-american schools. >> wow. all right. well, thank you so much for being with us. reverend al, april ryan, aviva kempner, who had something to do with the start of mika brzezinski's career -- >> my family, not me. >> well, thank you so much. >> i love your show, every morning. >> thanks for being here and thanks for all of you for remembering the life and legacy of a great man, julian bond. we'll be right back.

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i don't know if i can. you want to do the tease? >> show us what you're made of,io. still ahead, is hillary clinton's new campaign suffering from old weaknesses? we have karen tackling that question. plus, the season is only one week old, but should defending premiere league champ s chelsea already be worried. >> good day in our house. >> roger billet coming up next. looks like he's going out. we shall return. a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive?

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kids, if you were the only one saying our own punk rock expert roger billet is here. dressing very well. >> doing well. >> nbc sports going to be making billions and billions. >> six more years. >> a shocker yesterday. katty kay comes in with her husband, a massive city fan, and seize it 3-0. >> katty kay was a change maker. a clash of the last two champions. it's like watching a sheik and an oligarch having a knife fight. surrounded by five chelsea defenders. we get mistaken for each other a lot on the street. chelsea, known for their organized defense. a defense organized.

not this week. it was a disaster. the spanking completed by this goal. chelsea loses it by three goals. >> okay, so explain this. that is quite a reference. explain to me what marino meant after the match when he said it was a fake score. >> imagine pat riley and bill belichick having a portuguese baby. he announced afterwards this was a fake loss. it wasn't a real loss. he has two gears this man. one is invincibility and glory. the other is burning everything down. >> katty, your husband says, as does everybody in england, not that we beat chelsea. >> we beat marineio. >> it's about beating the chosen one. >> your team, liverpool, played at 3:00 p.m. they're the seabiscuit.

>> how bad is arsenal? >> fantastic. they beat gritty crystal palace 2-1 with a beautiful goal from a beautiful man, the most beautiful thing since catherine duno. it's a beautiful way to go out. look at this. look at this gorgeous man. he can't believe -- >> oh. >> and his face says it. what's more gorgeous, that goal or my face? >> he loves himself, just like you, roger. he has a little bit of that. i have to go tighter on the sides. that's what all the kids are saying. whenever i walk down the street, i go to northwest florida, that's what they say. that's what they say. all right, roger, we love having you back. the season begins, and we'll watch men in blazers tonight at 11:00 p.m. on nbc sports network. guy ritchie is going to be the guest there. it will prolong your life by at least three and a half years. at the top of the hour, the person everyone was talking about at the iowa stoate fair,

donald trump. yet another poll puts him way out in front. keep it right here on "morning joe." a powerful new dell 2-in-1 laptop, and durable new stellar notebooks, so you're walking the halls with varsity level swagger. that's what we call that new gear feeling. you left this on the bus... get it at the place with the experts to get you the right gear. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great.

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on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. muddle no more™ . i love iowa and i love these children. they're great children. we're going to go on about four or five rides. >> sometimes there's a backlash against rich candidates like mitt romney. any chance? >> first of all, he wasn't rich. the people in iowa have really loved me. >> so no matter how -- >> watch this. whoa. >> i was hoping you would wear

jeans. do you own jeans? >> these are my jeans. >> do you own jeans? >> i do. romney wore jeans. >> oh, my gosh. so we find out that mitt romney wore jeans and it didn't help him out. also, that mitt romney wasn't rich. welcome to the wonderful world of trump. now, airing 24 hours a day. on a news channel near you. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." hope you had a great weekend. we have so much to talk about. if you were smart and didn't watch the news this weekend and instead hung out with your family in the great weather, then we have a lot of news for you this morning. unbelievable stuff going on. unbelievable new polls. unbelievable turn of events in this campaign. hillary clinton making jokes about an fbi investigation,

about e-mails that her own staff are now starting to worry could have a big impact in her campaign. tons of political news going on. to talk about it, we've got katty kay, nicole wallace, ed rendell, sam stein in washington, and mark halpern in iowa. mark, i want to begin with you. you were the one following donald trump around a good bit in his magical mystery tour. you said this. most importantly of this weekend, we've reached a turning point with trump. the major establishment campaigns of both parties now think trump could win iowa, and most of them think he could win the nomination. and a significant number think he could win the white house. this is a big change. it was all enough for you, of course, channeling soph clees to say they were in, quote, full freak out mode. take us through this weekend.

>> well, look. trump may not end up as a nominee, but right now, he's changed the race. not just leading in the fox poll, but coming to the fair. i have been to the fair with barack obama at his peak, sarah palin at her peak, other candidates, george bush. the reception trump got here was not just about celebrity. i walked with him for 45 minutes after the helicopter ride, and people were yelling things to him with passion. save us. you're the only one who can stop hillary. thank you for making america great again. the other campaigns, the other leading republican campaigns monitored trump's behavior here. that was part, along with the fox poll and along with the developments of the last couple weeks of them saying as you just quoted, they now believe trump can win iowa. >> and mark, that changes, that really changes everything in this campaign about how they react to him. jeb bush, all of the money in the world, all the endorsements in the world, everything in the world. he still can't get out of his

way on an iraq question. and you know, all of these media darlings. marco rubio is officially the media darling of this campaign. you can't have people say enough wonderful things about marco, if he completes his sentence without drinking water. after every gulp, marco's the greatest candidate ever. oh, my god. look at marco. and he's at like 5% or 6% in these polls. rand paul in complete collapse. jeb bush, down. trump is dominating everything. it really does change the entire field. scott walker, who was supposed to be the great hope for conservatives, he's at 6%. kasich, another media darling, at 4%. by the way, i like kasich. chris christie and paul, both sitting at 3%. this is donald trump versus the

field. everything has changed, mark. >> and the problem for these campaigns now is you think about, there's a run-away fro front-runner with tons of conventional vulnerabilities. on "meet the press" he said seven things that they would grapple with. what can they take him down with? is it his family history, his business dealings, his temperament. they're grappling with the challenge of how do you move forward, continue to fundraise, think about which states you can win when the reality is no one has a trump strategy they're confident of. trump, he's not afraid of anybody in this race. not afraid of anybody in this race. that confidence gives him the ability to do what he wants to do, putting out his immigration plan, going where he wants to go when he wants to go. hasn't started spending any of his own money yet in any real

amount. again, trump has weaknesses. there are other candidates in the race who are strong. it's a snapshot of where we are today. as you said, a sieismic shift o people saying what happens in the possibility, and some are thinking probability, trump wins iowa and maybe other states early on. >> this past sunday was different than other sundays because you couldn't read articles in the "new york times" or the "washington post" plaining how trump's campaign is over. this is actually a weekly feature in most major newspapers over the past couple months, telling us why donald trump's campaign was coming to a screeching halt wra. that didn't happen this weekend. in part, because people are starting to realize he's going to be around over the weekend. this guy can't be knocked down, except by himself. this is donald trump talking about his own durability in the polls. >> i don't think i've made mistakes. every time somebody says i have made a mistake, they do the polls and my numbers go up. look, when i said mexico is

sending -- i was talking about illegal immigration. the people understood it, even though the press didn't want them to. my numbers went up. when kwl talked about john mccain, i talked about how bad he's treated the veterans. then they do a poll, who do you like better, john mccain or trump, and a swamp him in the poll. the last thing with fox, i love roger ailes, but all you have to do is ask him who won. >> okay, i don't know where to go from there. he seems -- if this is possible, if this is possible, see seems to be getting even more confident. so you have run republican campaigns. you have been through this. i remember you telling me one time a year ago, said it takes more money to run in a large state for senate than it does to run for president of the united states in the early stages. you said it's all about catching lightning in a bottle. donald trump has lightning like

all over the place. what's going on? >> i think he is the lightning, right? i think he's the lightning and the thunder. and i think that to talk about donald trump and think you can do that without disparaging his now very animated, very passionate supporters, is the mistake that the elites keep making. >> they have been calling them fools for a very long time. and yesterday, by the way, i saw on sunday weekend shows people talking about, oh, it's lower class. it's uneducated. >> my father. >> your father likes him? >> he's so mad at me for calling him a clown. i called him hideous, and my dad said, knock it out, i love him. >> by the way, my brother, very well educated. got a great job. hard worker. has voted for every republican nominee since he was 18 years old. he loves trump, too. >> and the sentiment is insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. my dad and a lot of people who

are excited about trump, are animating sort of desire is to have somebody who breaks the mold. and trump does that when he fails and trump does that when he succeeds. he does that when he says something great. trump does it when he says something freaking moronnic. what they love is trumpism, a guy who says the inappropriate thing. they love a guy who walks into a quote/unquote political scandal because it means he's unafraid. he's not poll testing his comments. >> so much has to do with the failures of the republican party. >> and the whole political culture, not us. >> a lot of people feel republicans have been impotent throughout the years and weak and started too many wars, spent too much money, haven't done anything to stop barack obama, and they're simply fed up. >> but it's not even as specific as policy proposals like this. i think it's like nicole is

saying. the more trump is like trump, the more he points out how other politicians have become canned and cautious and scrutinized and controlled by polls and controlled by their handlers. he sets up a contrast. we have been seeing for years the person who runs for president of the united states has to be somebody now that because of the amount of scrutiny they have, because of the 24-hour news network, because of social media, they're inevitably going to be somebody who is bland and kind -- >> and katty, you're exactly right. he makes scott walker, who measures every word out on the campaign trail, even more measured, or hillary clinton, who even has snapchat jokes fed to her, makes her look like a robot. jeb bush, my god, makes jeb bush look so tired and boring. you put him up against any of them. and other than maybe john

kasich -- >> you know, i don't think people are scrutinizing exactly what donald trump's policy positions are because on illegal immigrants, he said at the moment, i don't favor a passport to citizenship, i don't know, but it might change. on health care, public health care works great in canada. if you said to people, do you really support his policy positions, it's not what it is. it's somebody who comes off as authentic and i don't give a damn. >> you know it, i know can. we have both run. i told people in my campaign very early only, my first year, i figured it out. there are ideologues out there, but the people who decide the election, they don't vote based on position papers. they vote based on their gut. does this guy get me, is he going to fight for me, is this guy going to let me down or this woman? that's how they vote. >> there's no question. authenticity is the hall mark of

the campaign. ben carson in second place. authentic as can be. bernie sanders doing well on the democratici side. authenticity is reigning. >> is that one of hillary's problems, in new hampshire, she's losing by six? >> she's out there trying to not to lose. when you campaign trying not to lose, you lose, simple as that. >> everybody screaming no, don't go to the prevent in the third quarter. you're going to lose. >> no question, bad mistake. the question of how do you run against trump if you're one of the republicans is i run against everyone else. i want to be there when it gets to be one-on-one or one on two, because then donald has a problem. he's got that 59% or 60% of the republican electorate who say i don't like the guy and i don't want him to be president. in a field of 16, 17, he's going to dominate for a while, but

it's -- >> what they need to do isn't i like the guy, i love the guy. they need to love him and his celebrity but say i don't want him to be our president. >> the more they hear from him, which they did do over the weekend at the state fair, the more they seem to like him. at the tate fair, he took questions from the press and he was surrounded by children who gathered for helicopter rides. he talked about donors and what sets him apart from the other candidates. take a listen. >> many of the people who gave to jeb and hillary and to everybody else, they're friends of mine or enemies of mine but they're people i know. they're not doing it because they like the color of his hair, believe me. these are highly sophisticated killers. and when they give $5 million or $2 million or a million to jeb, they have him just like a puppet. he'll do whatever they want. he is their puppet. believe me. and with me, i had yesterday a lobbyist call me up, a friend of mine. good guy.

smart as hell. he's for his client. i don't blame him. he said, donald, i want to put $5 million into your campaign. i said, i don't need it, i don't want it. he said, i want to put $5 million in. i said, i don't want it. when you come back to me in two years and you want help for a company that you're representing or a country that you're representing, i'm going to do the right thing for the people of the united states, and i don't want to have to insult you. >> boy, that's a strong message. you laughed a couple times. i want to give you $5 million, i don't want it. i don't want your money. >> i laughed at the helicopter rides, too. we had a chance to ride on trump force one, i would probably send him. listen, his entire persona is about everything that's broken in our politics. the sense that money has corrupted the whole damn thing. this is particularly acute for hillary clinton and the foundation and the foundation cash book, which is riveting. i just finished it.

he is right now the antibiotic to the entire infected political body. >> still ahead on mj, hillary clinton now says she never sent or received anything marked at classified. is that enough for voters? no, and the fbi. plus, the "washington post" looks at how clinton's team went from nonchalant to nervous over the e-mail controversy. first, here's a man whose forecast always makes us nervous, bill karins. >> it should, too. a summer cold going, but i couldn't call in sick coming off vacation. well, good morning, everyone. two heat waves building. one on the west and one continues in the east. i think this will be one of the hottest days of the entire summer in a few spots. but in the west, we are watching heat, dangerous heat, maybe even deadly heat. heat warnings in effect for areas of southern california and arizona and as far as the temperatures, 115, palm springs, 115, yuma. you get the picture. also little fire pictures

showing you where all the fires are. this fire in washington state, burning near a gorgeous lake in a resort area. over the weekend, it burned right down to the lakefront. this one is only about 5% to 10% contained. today it will be 90 degrees, dry, no rain in sight. there's a lot of fires burning, active fires in the northern rockies especially. as far as the east goes, 94 today, new york city. 94 in philly, and 95 in d.c. it will slowly cool as we go throughout the rest of the week. that's why i said there's a good chance today will be the hottest day until next summer. leave you with a shot of the big apple. we get to 90 today, which we easily will, it will officially be new york city's first heat wave in two years. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's more than the cloud. it's security - and flexibility. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions

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first, i've said in the past that, you know, i used a single account for convenience. obviously, these years later, it doesn't look so convenient. i never sent classified material on my e-mail, and i never received any that was marked classified. so i'm going to let whatever this inquiry is go forward, and we'll await the outcome of it. >> that was hillary clinton this weekend responding to questions about her private e-mail server. now, the washington times reports as many as 60 e-mails reviewed from the server have been flagged so far for possible classified information. according to the paper, most of them were the lowest level of confidential. meanwhile, a new fox news poll shows many people are skeptical

about her comments on her private server. sgat% say clinton knowingly lied when she said there was no classified information in her e-mail. 33% say there's probably another explanation, and 54% say the country's national security was put at risk by her use of that server. a democratic dinner, she seemed to make light of it all. >> by the way, you may have seen that i recently launched a snapchat account. i love it. i love it. those messages disappear all by themselves. >> oh. i'm in pain. well, for a lot of different reasons. first of all, it's just so canned. it's just so prepackaged. it's just so add two drops of water and the flower sprouts into a joke. but also, making light of this

at a time when your own campaign, according to press reports, is starting to panic because they don't know where this fbi investigation goes, where the number of classified e-mails jump up from 4 to 60, allegedly, based on news reports, when she said there were no classified documents. what is the parsing you were talking about? >> she said she didn't get e-mails that were marked classified. >> right. >> as opposed to just classified. >> everything is so parsed when she, or anyone in her position, knows full well when you're sending information about drones to intel agencies, it's classified information. it is your responsibility, anybody in the intel industry will tell you to protect classified information. as we said before, federal agencies responsible for protecting this country have over the past several months been negligent in not doing what they would have done in every other case including general

petraeus'. when you know there's classified information outside the building, outside where it's supposed to be, it's a quick two-step process. get the classified information and bring it inside the agency. and then you begin the investigation. and you see how this happened. and the fact that hillary clinton's lawyer had a thumb drive of classified information and the state department did nothing about it, that nsa did nothing about it, the cia did nothing about it, the fbi did nothing about it, the white house did nothing about it, the justice department did nothing about it. this is stunning, and this is the news. i would recommend the next time the public editor for the "new york times" says the "new york times" might be taking it a little too hard on hillary clinton, they need to look at the real scandal here. and the real scandal here is that the entire federal government has allowed hillary clinton to do what nobody else in america would be allowed to

do. has allowed her lawyer to carry around information that had classified information on it. some of it possibly highly sensitive, without bringing it in. because it's hillary clinton. the igs have a lot to be concerned about. and they have started to mention it. and yet, despite all this, she's telling jokes at a fund-raiser about destroying messages. >> yeah. i wouldn't tell a joke about it. i'm not sure that's the right thing to do. >> with the fbi circling. >> the one thing i want to interpose. i think we should go slowly on this because you heard what katty reported, that even things that may be classified were considered low level. >> some of them. >> let's wait -- look. >> there are two we know are top secret. >> this is going to come out. let's wait for the facts. the "new york times" should have waited for the facts, obviously. when they first broke the story

about the so-called criminal investigation. this will all come out. it's a little like benghazi, joe. benghazi, seven congressional investigations. an independent panel headed by an admiral who nobody thinks is in the bag. >> that has nothing to do with it. >> no, no, for everybody prejudging went gaubun ghazi, a investigations found no wrong-doing. all i'm saying is let's go sl slowly. it will come out. if there's something there, it will come out. we ought to go slowly. >> if your wutalking to hillary clinton now, how would you advise her to respond? >> i would have told her at the very beginning to give the server over. when you're reluctant to give something over, people think you have something to hide. get it out there because they should have known -- >> why didn't the fbi go -- you have been in government for a long time, why didn't the fbi go and seize the server? >> shouldn't have been necessary. >> there was classified information on the server, there was classified information on the thumb drive.

why was this a voluntary exercise for six months? why -- where were you, fbi? where were you, justice department? where were you, state department? you had classified information outside your control. a private citizen had classified information. you had no idea what was out there. and you did nothing for six months. and allowed a citizen to decide whether the classified information was going to be taken over or not? explain that to americans. you need to explain that to americans because somebody is being political and possibly endangering america's national security. mark, what was the response at the fiair on the hillary clinto e-mail controversy. >> i agree with you on the substance. on the politics in iowa, when she told the joke, there were people around me who gasped because it's not a joking matter for a lot of people. she said here at the fair when

she had a press availability, real voters don't talk to her about this. they never bring it up to her. you know what, joe? real people never bring up to me i need to lose weight. they never tell me that. they might talk about it to other people, but they never say it to me. i well tell you, here in iowa, talking to people at the fair, talking to elite democrats, they bring her e-mails up to me. extraordinary high degree. high preek wfrequency of people what the deal. it's why joe biden and al gore and others are saying do we have a problem here? are we headed toward nominating someone by consensus who has thigbig problem? i have never in my career dealt with a presidential campaign who is as unresponsive to basic questions. governor rendell said turn over the server. that's not the only issue. there's lots of facts they won't respond to. you can ask them every day what are the answers to these questions. she's a strong candidate, a great public servient. she's i think right now the most

likely to be elected president, but she's not dealing with the issue. between the fbi and the congressional investigations, this is not only not going away, but it shouldn't go away on the substance and people care about it. >> the problem is there just aren't good answers apparently to a lot of those questions. >> i think she has to bite the bullet and give the bad answers. still ahead, bringing in the "washington post's" karen tumulte on her reporting on hillary clinton. why she said the clintons can't learn from their past. plus, the "new york times" publishing a scathing report on the work place culture at amazon. why jeff bezos said it's not fit to print. i wonder if it has to do with the fact he now owns the "washington post." we'll be right back. do you like the passaaadd?

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nixon tapes, thousands of hours of secretly recorded conversations that nixon thought were exclusively hers -- his, that he was not going to get them. hillary clinton initially took that position. i'm not turning this over. there's going to be no cooperation. now they're cooperating, but this has to go on a long, long time. and the answers are probably not going to be pretty.

>> that's bob woodward earlier this morning on "morning joe" comparing hillary clinton's e-mail servers to the nixon tapes and saying at the end, like he did, this is going to go on a long time and it's not going to be pretty. maybe it explains the stories this morning about joe biden starting to tell his people get out there and get ready. >> right, there are enough problems swirling around hillary clinton at some point is this going to come back to haunt her? is she handling it in the right way? that's the other question, right, with jokes about snapchat? terrible canned jokes about snapchat. was that the right way to handle this when the fbi is investigating? >> and as ed said, former dnc chair. she's playing prevent. doing it the wrong way. you said she should have turned over the server. >> at the beginning. they should have known it was going to happen anyway. it's interesting when she fell behind, she became a great candidate, but she let it lose. she talks about what was on her

mind and let it loose. she was a great candidate. >> she really was. with us from washington, let's bring in national correspondent for the "washington post," karen tumulty. you co-wrote this about hillary clinton. quote, it was supposed to be different this time. after the wounds of 2008, many of them self-inflicted, hillary rodham clinton rebooted for 2016 with a new message, new advisers and new energy. but two dynamics have crystallized this month suggesting the new hillary is hobbled by old weaknesses, once again, worried supporters see signs of a bunker mentality in response to bad newsuble her e-mail server and other controversies and they see a candidate who can seem strangely blinkered to the threat posed by a lesser known challenger. we were at an event where hillary's people were introducing the team to a lot of the press in a sort of small casual setting, and a lot of really good people. and the word was, more access.

we're not going to be paranoid. we're not going into a bunker. but that appears to be exactly where hillary is right now. >> well, that's right. of course, this was -- this campaign, this time around, was supposed to learn from the mistakes of 2008. it was going to be open. it was going to be accessible. it was going to be authentic, and she also, her advisers vowed she was not going to be sort of crippled the way she was last time by her own inevitability. we have seen two things happen. one, this e-mail controversy has brought back all of her old instincts towards secrecy, towards closing things down. i mean, her speech on friday night had such echoes of the old vast right-wing conspiracy to it. >> when it's the "new york times" and now the fbi that have been driving a lot of this investigation. >> that's right. and the other -- that's exactly

right. it's impossible to say this is just a partisan witch hunt. you know, she was saying that about the benghazi investigation on the hill. you cannot say that when the fbi is involved and when the department of justice, as we reported on friday, has assigned the same prosecutor who prosecuted david petraeus to this case. >> karen, we were covering the 2008 campaign together, and you remember the hillary clinton press operation then was like the toughest operation to try to deal with. you couldn't get them to reply. they treated the press with distain. the whole point was this time around, they were going to be more open, more accessible. this just feels so much like the past again. it feels like we've got -- we're up against a fence, and they sense they have sometimes that the world is against them, the world is attacking hillary unfairly. so they're going to go in to defensive crouch. >> and i think this reflects the candidate herself. this reflects her world view. but it's important to realize,

too, as i was reporting last week. the sense you get is that the campaign itself is trying to get its arms around what's really going on here. the fact is that the justice department was involved in this for nearly a month before the clinton campaign got their first inkling that this was going on. in fact, their first inkling came on the night of july 23rd when the "new york times" called them up and said, hey, we've got this story about a justice department referral. i'm told by people in the campaign, that was the very first moment they even knew this was going on and it had been out there for weeks. >> why isn't there anyone in her orbit who can walk in there and say this isn't the '90s. there's no vast right-wing conspiracy to speak of. they're busy fighting amongst themselves for the republican nomination. why can't anyone snap her out of this retro mindset that somehow a republican boogie man is to

blame? these are self-inflicted wounds and even democrats acknowledge that? >> first of all, she does have enemies, but there is, especially once there is a real sort of potential of legal jeopardy, all of her old instincts kick in. it's what we saw in white water when she wouldn't turn over those documents and it ended up with the appointment of an independent counsel who turned out to be ken starr. we know where that ended up. >> there is no ken starr, no republican investigation. this is hillary clinton against hillary clinton. >> actually, there is a republican investigation. the reason david kendall had all of those e-mails on his thumb drive was that he was arguing -- david kendall being her attorney, her personal attorney going all the way back to the white water days, he said he had to maintain them on the thumb drive because he had to preserve the evidence for the benghazi investigation.

>> but karen, trey gowdy is not hillary clinton's political problem. the "washington post," the "new york times," the fbi, the justice department, is hillary clinton's problem. >> that is her political problem right now, and it's her legal problem right now. and again, the fact is nobody knows where this investigation is going. she does keep saying, well, none of the stuff in my server was marked classified. that, we're told, is not the legal standard. >> that's not a legal standard when you're sending the type of e-mails she's sending around. everybody in the intel community i have spoken to over the past month say it's presumed classified. >> and it's also not just the e-mails that she was sending. it's the e-mails she was receiving. according to our reporting, a number of the e-mails that are being looked at for classified material here are e-mails that she received in some cases e-mails she didn't reply to. so there are a number of people in her orbit who are also going

to be questioned over this. >> all right, karen, thank you so much. we love having you on. we greatly appreciate you being here. >> coming up next, amazon ceo jeff bezos fires back after a blistering report from the "new york times." why he's calling out their reporting straight ahead. >> incredible. incredible article. are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now... to what it needs to become. toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine proven to treat toenail fungus.

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so nis amazon story that you read, you said it was just riveting. >> i was up last night trying to catch up on all the political news for this morning. i started reading the amazon article and i could not -- it's very long. i couldn't look away. >> what's so riveting? >> what that work place was reportedly like, purportedly for women who had kids. you could see why amazon would instantly shift into defense mode. the allegations, if true, depict a terrible work place. >> grown men crying. >> grown men crying at the desk. women who worked out deals with their supervisors for flex time getting punished on anonymous

e-mail tattlers. >> it quotes -- they interviewed 100 people who worked at amazon. it quotes one former employee who said it's where overachievers go to feel bad about themselves. >> dominic, not rave reviews this morning from the "new york times" article. from jeff bezos, pushing back really hard. >> they're pushing back really hard. like you said, it's probably the number one conversation happening at workplaces all over the country right now. you guys have hit on a couple of those points. let's bring the viewers up to speed on what's happening. that "time" story describes an environment at amazon as one of being really hypercompetitive. there's some perhaps back stabbing, cruelty, unsympathetic bosses at times. even instances where managers were viewed as having no empathy for employees who loved ones had even perhaps passed away.

it was damaging enough where amazon ceo jeff baizo personally responded to the story in a memo to his employees. he said, quote, the article doesn't describe the amazon i know, but if you know of any stories like those reported, i want you to escalate it immediately to hr, even if it's rare or isolated. our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. bezos also said he wouldn't want to work for a company like the one they described in the story. so if you talk about workplaces, especially in technology, these days, remember, all of these tech giants like microsoft, netflix, they'll trying to hype the idea that they're good places to work, that they have work life balance, think of all the maternity leave updates happening. a big deal. >> some of these tech places are the absolute worst places to work for. >> amazing. >> you read some of the stories from all of them. >> but in a sense, jeff bezos is

right, he says, i don't know about this, but he's right at the top. a bit like you said earlier. who is going to go in to him and say this is a terrible place to work? who can go into his office and say what is happening. >> i have to say amazon is the best invention of my lifetime. i ordered three things since i have been sitting here. >> some time, the app is absolutely stunning. >> i signed up for the two-hour delivery. >> you order something and you get it. >> you know, in response to what bezos said, not knowing about it. a work place gets its tenor from the person at the top. >> dominic, thank you for being with us. you're right. a story everybody is going to be talking about in the workplace today. up next, if you ever had a love-hate relationship with your sibling, this next movie is for you. josh lucas joins us to take a look that's a dark film that's a

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you mind if i -- >> strange air in here. >> yeah, it's a dance company. it's people from wurb. a funny mix. >> you can definitely tell who your friends are. >> yeah. >> you guys are fascinating to me. >> fascinating? >> they ended their season

tonight. this duet where he's like wild bronco being tamed. >> sounds like torture. >> yeah. >> that's a look at the new f m film. the film's co-star josh lucas and the director, john mcgary. you don't look real healthy there, josh. >> a lot of fun to play wildly unhealthy, i tell you. >> but it's called the men, but boy, you and your brother have a lot of issues you go through in the film. >> i don't think they're on the mend at all. if anything, they're falling apart. they're dealing with their demons, but i think the joy of this movie is that it's hard edged but punk rock and quite comedic all at the same time. that's what you watch these guys who maybe could have been friends when they were little are at a point where no longer. >> it ain't happening.

>> you talked about writing this. you sort of projected onto your characters a lot of real feelings about experiences about brother and sister relationships. you want to talk about that? >> i have an older brother, but i generally tell people he's nothing like matt. >> once people see that, it will be an important disclaimer. >> i think the two brothers are composites of me and my older brother. i try to sort of bring in our history of any strains or any kind of truth telling that's, you know, sort of leads to ruptures between us but also to like fixing the relationship. that's what is interesting to me. is how families stick together and fight and then blow up and then move apart and have to come back together. >> and new york city is a character in the movie from the way you talk about it. >> this is a fascinating movie to make because we shot it in john's apartment in north harlem.

you would walk in, literally, you would walk in in the morning at 3:00, 4:00 in the morning because we were shooting splits starting in the morning. and his girlfriend/writing partner would be getting out of bed as we're walking in with the film crew. >> i would wake up to a grip walking into the bedroom. >> that happens to all of us for different reasons. josh, you've been getting great reviews here. it looks like critics like this film and really like your performance there. >> i think we went for it. this is john's first feature film, and i tell you. this is a very nice thing to go out and talk with you guys because the movie you're deeply proud of. a director who has people who are watching this film for the first time, particularly other filmmakers and critics are going, wow, this is a voice. john set out to make a movie that had elminutes of scorsese

and woody allen. to me, he hit it. and that partly is because a lot of people risk ed going to work atthry:00 a.m. on a subway. seriously, i took the subway every morning at 3:00 a.m. >> long commute. >> yeah, a long commute. >> i got to wake up right on set. >> very good. >> josh is like, you have never seen quite like this. >> can't wait. >> looks great. thank you guys so much for coming in. we greatly appreciate it. the summer of trump, you didn't even bring up trump one time. >> love it. >> very close. >> very close. >> thanks so much. stick around because "the rundown" is coming up next. at ally bank no branches equals great rates.

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good morning. i'm frances rivera in for diaz-balart. we begin with 2016 republican front-runner donald trump who is making big headlines this morning, this time in a "melissa harris-perry" exclusive. he's offering the most specific to date on hot button topics including immigration. trump telled chuck todd all undocumented immigrants need to be deported. we'll play you an extended version of the interview in a few minutes. first, the billionaire is taking a break from the campaign trail to report for jury duty in lower manhattan. while his republican rivals have another busy day of