their basement. >> we'll have to leave it there. thank you all very much for joining me tonight. really appreciate it. trump wants immigrants out of the country z that include the man you're calling an illegal immigrant, does that include the president of the united states? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the man has a plan for 11 million immigrants, send them all home. question, mr. trump, does that mean mr. obama, too? does he have to go back to that country you said he was from? or should we forget that? should we take seriously that you have to say, mr. trump?

katy tur joins us where donald trump reported for jury duty today. you have gone to jury duty to follow donald trump. he's been released. how do you explain the crowd at the courthouse today? >> everywhere he goes he draw as big crowd. the vast majority today were reporters and whenever we see him in new hampshire or iowa or south carolina or arizona or michigan, he's always drawing a lot of reporters specifically because no one is sure what exactly he's going to saf. i don't think his staff even knows what will come out of his mouth half the time but when you're there, you see very large crowds of supporters, even here today when people realized he was coming out of the courthouse, a lot of pedestrians on the street to stop to cheer for him and he signed a dollar bill. in places, iowa, new hampshire and south carolina, immigration does seem to be very hot top pick for them. even though they are not directly involved in the

immigration battle, if you will, they are not boarder states by any means, he does seem to be appealing to those people, speaking to them directly telling him he will get undocumented immigrants out. it's unclear if he was able to factor in how much that would cost into the plan. he said he would fund the border wall but upping the fees for visas. to get the 11 million undocumented immigrants out of this country, independent analysis says it would cost between $1 billion and $2 billion and we were asking him about that today, whether or not he factored that in. he dodge that question basically say thing is our country and we need to close the borders, get them out and make it great again. >> thanks for that report. what a strange world we live in. trump released the first big policy position and it was hard line and on immigration. it is three principles and not a nation a nation where laws is

not a nation and a nation does not serve citizens. hard to argue with those principles. an interview on "meet the press" trump made clear anyone that entered this country illegally must be made to leave it. >> we have to make a whole new set of standards and when people come in, they have to come -- >> you're going to split up families and deport children? >> no, keep the families together. we have to keep the families together. >> but they have to go. >> they have to go. >> what if they have no place to go? >> we will work with them. they have to go. chuck, we have a country or don't. >> it's not clear. >> it will work out so well, you will be so happy n. four years you will be interviewing me and you're going to say, what a great job you've done president trump. >> yesterday appeared finally on "meet the press." finally. let me, let me tell you why i think trump is going to get paid in iowa.

everybody else uses the politically appropriate term of undocumented workers, doesn't say immigrants. you're not going to try to get those people out of the country. you accepted them, they left their driver's license at home and conveys the idea you're not serious about illegal immigration. he's crazy when he talks about the president and that establishes to me i don't know why he does anything he does in public life because you say things like that, you can't be taken seriously but on the issue of immigration and voter, i think the voter here is this guy means it, david, he's not one of the guys jockeying how to keep the hispanic group happy and keep the catholic church happy and the farmers happy. i just want to say the truth. he sounds like truth. >> well, and his policy propels, which he put out today, the particulars don't matter that much. i think anywhere from 10 to 20 or 30% of the base are people who want someone who is angry and is outraged as they feel

they don't like pressing one for english, two for spanish and want somebody that will be like your uncle who says this is what i believe and the particulars don't matter. they want -- >> by the way -- >> they want hatred. >> slow down. i will give him more credit. you don't agree, fine. there is another point of view. do we have a border plan? i give credit to schumer and lindsey graham because they signed onto the bipartisan bill that does stop people from getting hired illegally but other politicians are panlder bears. they don't want to lose the hispanic vote. at least he's saying. >> look who he sought counsel from, the one u.s. senator was jeff sessions of alabama who is a favorite of the conservative activist and had a bill, a true boarder hawk and saying look, i may be liberal on issues and may have disappointed you and been a democrat but on things that matter, immigration i'll with you on the hard right.

>> he says something. like you disagree with it, you don't like the sound or smell but you know what he's saying, at least we know that. what are these other guys saying? >> he says something and people apparently eat it up. what he says is totally impossible. right? i mean, let's just establish that. it's totally impossible. >> not moral, too. you got to be totally right wing. >> it's not impossible he says it. he says it forcefully. >> why is it important? because this will help him carry iowa? >> you know, in iowa especially -- >> there are millions of republicans, i think, who want and who actually want these people deported. they may agree it can happen or not but they want to see the effort and he says i'm going to try it. this has to happen.

>> a guy opens up a flower shot and paper delivery system and has a contract. he's gone. >> out. >> he's not really gone. he's not going. >> i would like to think because i'm a reasonable person that there's a happy medium between that crazy talk and doing nothing which is make it, remove it for the guy sneaking across the boarder tomorrow night. >> that was a bipartisan senate bill. >> trump's plan won over iowa hard liners like congressman talking about the crazy. who knows, steve king who attacked illegal immigrants in the harshest terms like god, cantaloupes. wisconsin governor scott walker finds himself trailing behind trump in iowa and he sounds like he likes trump. in an interview with "fox news today" he sounded like he, too, wanted to build a wall at the boarder. >> i was on "fox news sunday" and laid out what i think we should do, secure the border, build the way, have the technology to make sure it's

safe and secure. >> walker never mentioned a wall in the interview. never mentioned but now he's all for it. that was the start of it. governor walker came out against automatic citizenship for children of those who entered the country illegally. here is walker with msnbc's casey hunt. >> do you think that birthright citizen ship should be ended? >> like i said, harry reid said it's not right for this country. absolutely going forward. >> we should end birthrights? >> yeah, it's about enforcing the laws in this country. >> you know, the 14th amendment which came out of the civil war to protect the newly infranchised african americans and said if you're born in this country you're a citizen, it's really simple and he wants to get rid of that. >> enforcing the laws of this coup tri, that's the law of this country. >> i will take three-quarters of the states to get rid of the 14th amendment, which i think the american people as anguished as they might be won't change

the constitution. >> i've been on the phone with donors to walker, huckabee, carson and think they have to move right now to iowa because trump is moving up. >> you know what they remind me of? remember the movie "doctor of strange love" and slim pickens riding the rocket, all riding trump. yahoo, this is great. they are riding, to where? to where? >> what happens? a lot of these guys -- >> how do you beat trump -- >> at the next debate. >> robert costa, how do you get trump's vote against trump. >> huckabee, santorum, remind them he's not one with the social issues. >> sorry. >> i think on the immigration issue and they will see people trying to get to his right and probably in the next debate

you'll have a debate with each candidate saying i'll build it 20 feet high, 28 feet high. >> out trump trump. that won't work. >> he continues to lap the field, a fox news poll, trump leads with 25%, 13 points ahead of ben carson and 15 points ahead of ted cruz. jeb bush in single digits. he's very proimmigration. trump is narrowing the gap. this is a big number, a fox number but in june, clinton, mrs. clinton, secretary trumped trump by 17 points. not getting so hypothetical. clinton is leading by five points, five points. >> couple thing haves happened. one, trump has become a genuine candidate for president of the united states. now i think we have to agree, he is a candidate and people were saying he could be a candidate. i can't -- >> anybody here think -- okay. it's plausible. i want to test this.

three smart people. can you answer this question? is his nomination by the republican party plausible? >> republican party. >> is it plausible? >> crowded field, yes. >> plausible? >> not plausible, possible. >> it's certainly possible. >> certainly possible. anyway, thank you, thank you robert costa, david, we have -- the jury reached a decision. look out. [ laughter ] >> coming up, donald trump says he cherishes women. that's a good line. cherishes all women. what's this about? can he earn their vote? i'll speak with a woman that knows her well. omarosa and biden poses threat to clinton but will the vice president move from showing interest as he apparently is to actually jumping in? that's our question tonight and speaking of questions, a simple yes or no. do you like how things are going in your party? how about the country? where the candidates stand, yes or no and we'll remember the life and legacy of julian bond

as civil rights icon that spent his life fighting for equality. i remember him from the democratic convention in chicago. he was one bright light then. this is "hardball" the place for politics. it's so shiny. i know, mommy, but it's time to let the new kitchen get some sleep. if you want beautiful results, you know where to go - angie's list. now everyone can get highly rated service even without a membership. you can shop special offers or just tell us what you need, and we'll help you find a local company to take care of it. angie's list is there for all your projects, big and small. pretty. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. but first, we have a very special guest. come on out, flo! [house band playing] you have anything to say to flo? nah, i'll just let the results do the talking.

[crowd booing] well, he can do that. we show our progressive direct rate and the rates of our competitors even if progressive isn't the lowest. it looks like progressive is not the lowest! ohhhh! when we return, we'll find out whether doug is the father. wait, what? this is wild, wisconsin governor scott walker took on protesters that showed up for the soapbox appearance at the iowa state fair. >> a great test with the protesters because you think you want someone tough. there is people that talked up. i'm the only one that stood up to 100,000 protesters, stood up to the big union bosses. i'll stand up to washington regardless of party and fight for the american people. >> again, unintimidatinged. i am not intimidated by you sir or anyone else out there. i will fight for the american people over and over and over and over again.

you want someone whose tested? i'm right here. you can see it. >> walker talks there about standing up to the union boss and a new poll shows that 58%, a strong number of americans approve of labor unions and in 2009 it was 48%. unions are coming back generally speaking. we'll be right back. why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away

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>> welcome back to "hardball." donald trump with a is it your opinion speech in the quest for the 2016 republican nomination and issues with china, jeb bush and immigrants, of course, lately and he's added one promise to the country. >> i will be great on women's health issues. i cherish women and will be great on women's health issues, believe me. i will help on women's health issues more than anybody including democratic side.

women's health issues you watch. >> my mother was this incredible woman. i have great children. i have a great wife. i cherish women. >> these assurances came after the debate in cleveland. and his response to megyn kelly the filing night. >> she gets out and asks ridiculous questions and you can see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. >> wherever. anyway, in the wake of that firestorm can trump promise to cherish women voters win over women voters? joining me now is orlina maxwell who writes for "essence" and a woman that knows donald trump well, omarosa worked for trump productions and appeared on 75 episodes of "the apprentice." we have to get you here but let's look at this first. >> okay.

>> your mama should know. your mama should know, piers. your mama should know. you're mama should know. >> i'm on this side this time. >> who cares. donald makes the ultimate decision. don't get it twisted this is not cnn. i'm a grown woman. i run a company and half of the west coast for "okay magazine". >> om ma rosa, easy. >> we make good tv for ten years and 13 seasons. >> i agree. >> anyway, she made hundreds of thousands of dollars working for donald trump and she also worked in the clinton white house. thank you for joining us omarosa. tell me what it's like, all my life i worked for politicians and often times there is a tremendous difference between what you see on television and sometimes it's worse. sometimes it may be better. post of the tile better in person but is donald trump better in person or different when the lights go off and you

go back to the green room and talk about the show, how is he different professionally than theater. >> donald trump is funny, sense of humor, laid back and a great swag. you don't see that. that doesn't translate. managed to make him look like a chakt arter. he's a fun guy to be around. >> who create that picture? >> i saw where they are making fun of his hair or he's got his handout doing you're fired. people make fun of the big moments but there are also significant moments that people miss. donald trump does care about women. he has worked to make sure that people know his passion and we're going to have to know more about his positions on issues that are important to women and you'll see that in the next comes weeks. >> let's see what he said about carly fiorina. trump is going after her. he tweeted this at cleveland debate.

quote, i just real rised if you listen to carly fiorina for more than ten minutes straight you develop a massive headache. she has zero chance. >> i think at the next debate they will sick carly on donald trump -- >> what is they? >> the republican establishment is intimidated by donald trump and they can't control him. >> they can control carly. >> they can manage carly but not trump. >> why would you assume they could with the only woman candidate run sglg she's going to fall in line and indebted to the donors and their positioning and fox news. donald trump is unfiltered. unbothered. unbought, unbossed, you can't control him and so you'll see in the debate, you just watch, chris, they will sick her on him and she's going to go and get tore up. [ laughter ] >> i don't miss anything omarosa. stick with us. you have a point of view we

haven't heard on the show. what do you make of what you just heard? >> i mean, i'm sure that donald trump might be a nice guy to people that he likes or women that he likes who are in his inner circle and that he has given sort of the stamp of approval to. the problem, though, is he's trying to attract women as voters and you don't do that by making period jokes or talking about people's appearances. >> he never made a period joke. >> he has a long history of talking about women dismissing them as bill bows like megyn kelly or calling them ugly dogs like he did with rosey o'donald or "the new york times" columnist gail collins. he has to put forth specific policy propels. he hasn't said whether or not he'll defund planned parenthood. >> he made statements about that. >> i think that as he's talking in specifics and also i think he should, you know, say look, i was inarticulate or said things that were offensive about women and now i don't think those things. i think the fact he keeps saying

things makes us women and women voters believe he might believe women's place is in the home or women's place -- >> he never said that nor did he make a period joke. >> he did. that was a period joke. >> he did not say anything about her period. let's get to real issues. >> i think that people would -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> let's stop for a second. ladies. one second. >> important issues but name calling is not an important issue. >> i'm not calling names -- >> let me ask you-all, omarosa, why do you think women thought he was talking about menstrual there? >> he said or whatever. you have to be vulgar. let's not go crazy. donald trump really did feel that where she was coming from was not with good intention, if she wanted to know where he stood on women's issues she would have asked about a policy-based question and gender-based question. >> he said blood coming out of

your eyes or wherever to your eyes. >> if that question about -- >> why did he say to the a woman. >> if that question was asked to rosey o'donald by a male moderator, he would have went after them just as aggressively. it's not paint with a big old brush. >> i'm asking. >> it does not mean he does not like all women. >> i did not articulate he didn't like all women. >> you specifically talked about the names that he responded to her when she insulted his family and i'll tell you, you come up to my family, i'm coming after you, too. >> will you vote for donald trump. >> i'm a democrat, i can't vote in a republican primarily. >> wait a minute, if he's candidate for the republican party, would you vote for him? >> i can't wait to see him go toe to toe with hillary clinton and when that happens, i'll make that decision. >> you can imagine voting for him? >> i could imagine voting for the person that advances my interest. >> no, no, come on, don't get --

>> you know i my position. you know i worked for the clintons and in the white house. i never hedged on that. >> but you can't, i'm asking a simple question and easy yes or no. >> let's ask the question. >> you can imagine voting for donald trump? >> it depends. i'd like to see the rest of america where his positions are on key issues. >> do you want to see -- >> i want to know if he's going to be hard or soft on the economy and create job opportunities in my community and where does he stand on education and if he does, i would consider it, absolutely. >> and you would never vote for him in a million years, right? >> never, safe to say. >> thank you both. interesting discussion. julian bond, legacy on civil rights up next and this is "hardball" the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." tributes pour in for julian bond that died this weekend. president obama said julian bond was a hero and i'm privilegeed to say a friend. he helped change the country for the better and what better way to be remembered than that? a founder of snic, he was' elected at the age of 25 and three years later, the democratic national convention when his name was put in nomination for vice president. >> we wish to offer a nomination the wave of the future, it may be a symbolic nomination tonight, but it may not be symbolic four years hence. we offer a nomination with the greatest pleasure, the name of julian bond. [ applause ] >> boy, did he look good then snow was only 28. i don't think he was legal

enough to be vice presidential nominee knee. julian bond went on to become chairman and remained a strong champion and in recent years spoke up in favor of same-sex marriage. here he is. >> when someone asks me are gay rights civil rights, my answer is always of course they are. gay and lesbian rights are not special rights in any way. it isn't special to be free from discrimination. it is an ordinary universal entitlement of citizenship. >> that's why he had 25 honorary degrees, the man could speak clearly what it is an american. i spoke to him in june of 2013, the day the supreme court gutted the great voting rights act of '65? >> this is just as robert's dream. he was trying to do this since the regan's justice department

as a younger lawyer and finally made his dream come true. he's been able to maneuver the supreme court so they cut the voting rights act and made it impossible to block to suppress block voting. this is a good deal for the republicans and an awful deal for the united states. >> joining me now dr. amus brown and a one-time student of dr. martin luther king at more house college and julian bond was in that class with him, they were classmates and the author of "give us the ballot." we only have a little time but you first, dr. brown. tell us about this man's role in history and how you knew him personally. give us the insight on him. >> well, he was a very gentle and well cultured man and i am saddened that my very close friend is no longer with us. he was catapulted into doing

great things and caused the upbringing he received in his father's home where he saw and heard that he composed the spoken about, the missionary group to the 90% of african americans who needed to be infranchised, needed to be educated and given the opportunity to enjoy all of the amenities of this nation. >> a natural leader. you're doing great work on this more recently talking about him. talk about his role in terms of gay rights, as well. how did he fit into the contemporary arguments? >> he was always for voting rights. he embraced gay rights and if you look at julian bond, he was someone who was president of the creation of the votes rights act and communications director in alabama and one of the first black elected officials after

the passage of the vra in 1965 and 50 years later, he was still engaged in this battle criticizing the roberts courts, gutting of the voting rights act and urging the congress to restore the vra. so it was sad right before julian's passing, he felt like he was fighting life all over again, that people like him -- >> who doesn't? >> engaged with the same battles they thought they won 50 years earlier. >> we're celebrating what they tore apart. here is what julian bond had to say. >> you have to have them ask themselves do we want to see a republican president elected in the next decade or so? do we want 20 years from now there to be a republican president of the united states? if we do, we've got to change their behavior. we've got to be attractive to black voters, we've got to be attracted to hispanic voters and the way we behave, they are not attracted to either one and

we're repulsive. >> dr. brown, younger people don't know in 1964 and '65 overing whemingly the republicans not house supporting sieve rights and voting rights. it was the dixie crats that stood opposed to it. >> it had to be someone that stopped our progress that we fought for so hard and i must say julian was not just concerned about civil rights for black people, but he was concerned about human rights for all people. he learned that in dr. king's class where dr. king taught us something able persons, all persons are to be respected as having worth, dignity and in this nation, there should be liberty and justice for all and all meant all. >> back to you, is this fight over voting rights and game playing by state assemblies by republicans and legislatures,

following the alex organization go around finding ways to screw the black vote. as simple as that. they don't do it because they are black but because they think they are all democrats. is this going to stop or keep going? >> it's going to keep going in 2016, chris, because this is the first presidential election in 50 years without the full protections of the voting rights act so you'll see in states like north carolina, wisconsin, new voting restrictions will be in effect. they will be more difficult to be challenged and julian told me that he believed that voting rights were untouchable. he thought we had moved past this issue, and he was shocked at how brazen the republicans had been in recent years in pursuing these new restrictions and gutting the voting rights act and he's absolutely right it's a short-term strategy. you can't prevent everybody from voting who doesn't agree with you but unfortunately, that's the strategy the republican party has chosen and pursuing for the 2016 election.

>> think of it this way, it's even worse. states like pennsylvania where i come from where our ancestors fought the civil war in many, many thousands died to end this kind of crap, you've got their current republicans fighting against voting rights. thank you for joining us in the memory of julian bond, a great man. ari's book is called "give us a ballot." too bad we can't do these tributes and eulogies before someone passes. >> a bid for the presidency and really split, which is sophisticated answer. i don't know what to tell the guy if he would listen to me. i don't know if i want him to run or not. i tell ya, i like the guy. most of us do. we'll see. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics.

i get around a lot. people are not talking about those e-mails. i don't get where this is coming from.

hilary is a fighter. i served with hilary on the same committee. i saw this fighter in terms of joe biden, we haven't heard the last of him in terms of what he can offer to the united states in the future, but what this calls for right now is hillary clinton, it's time for a woman, past time as a matter of fact for a president. the field is out there. it's set right now. >> wow, welcome back to "hardball." popular guy that stayed out of the fight but today or this weekend endorsed hillary clinton. he said the former senator said there is no room for joe in the field. it's set. he said the field is set. but biden supporters out there don't think so and biden himself was making calls to friends and allies from vacation in south carolina to discuss what a presidential campaign should look like. they are split.

45% say he should run, 47% said he shouldn't. that tells you how finally cut this is. the relentless questions about over front runner hillary clinton's handling of state department e-mail provided an opening for somebody and that means for vice president himself and that wasn't there a few months ago. time for the round table. we didn't do little things for howard. global, read it, buddy. white house correspondent available to opinion on anything around the world and republican strategist. >> that's right. >> i love real strategist. >> what campaigns have you won? >> i haven't won as a strategist. >> what did you do? >> ill -- >> just to get this right because ways people are described, i know what this cat does. name a great strategy overhead.

>> the biggest strategy was try to reach out to the latino community in a way we had never done with mccain. more press, more out reach, we had more surrogates. >> that was innovative because very little was being done. >> it was. >> okay. let's go. >> let's go. here is the question:is he moving toward a run or moving against one right now as we speak? >> as we speak this minute, he's moving towards it. now that doesn't mean he's going to do it. but calling around today, i was surprised at the extent to which there said people right near him say they get more and more calls. now with the indirect effect of the e-mail thing and whatever troubles hilary is having, which i agree are not fatal by any means. >> is there a bet on the explosion. >> they are loosening tongues and potential men. >> you're catching my eye on this.

>> i'm catching the eye. >> a lot of times, guys announced in 1964, weird years, men and women ran in 1980. sometimes you want to be on the ballot because anything can happen. whoever is on the ballot if this does explode, does kick her out of campaign somehow, you want to be on the ballot. >> this is the year, non-traditional presidential campaigning time for anything to happen. for joe biden to come in at this moment if he does after vacationing and making this decision, anything can happen. >> is it bad for him to sit there and hope something explodes because right now he can't beat her. >> let me say on a couple fronts, if he comes in there is a wind fall of money. in about four to six weeks, about 1.5 to $2 million they will guard in four to six weeks for money for joe biden starting out if he does come in and then also -- >> unlimited. >> she's got unlimited money but at least starting out. then you also have the negative side. the negative side where as a

white house correspondent, joe biden has not made available to the press. if he does run and talk to the press, joe biden is sometimes the gift that keeps giving. he likes to be very real. yeah, he talks too much and that's one of the things the white house tried to work with him on to help him but the problem is he is so real, he has been able to do things on the hill. >> if you advised him, would he be judged by past problems on plagiarism? which way will the press go? >> they are not giving him a break. with all due respect seriousness, first of all, she's a bad candidate. the fact of the matter, the reason there isn't a biden candidacy, he's always been a lousy candidate. he's prone -- >> how many times -- >> his work on capitol hill. >> how many times have we had a sitting vice president who has

not been seriously considered until he had -- say a vice president of a president whose been quite successful. this should have been barack obama's third term. not because he's the wrong messen ger. >> this is "hardball" my ears don't blanch. you don't think he's a lousy guy. >> he's a good guy but a lousy candidate. worst -- >> hillary clinton -- >> she's a terrible candidate for a different reason. >> he's an undisciplined candidate. she's overly controlled. joe is under controlled. >> exactly. >> the one amazing thing about him though is he's a lifetime politician who at the same time seems to be a real guy and spend a lifetime in politics.

that's a trick of some kind worth something. >> the image of joe biden is joe biden. >> i was surprised to learn he thought of himself he might run again. >> for president. >> for president. >> the year of the outsider -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> i can't stop this. this is out of my control. by the way, senator at the age of 29 elected. i think he had high hopes. the round table is staying with us and politics comes down to, either vote yes, i like the way things are going in my party or no. let's take a look at which candidates are no candidates. we don't like the way things are going and which candidates are part of the scope. we'll be right back and that's coming up next.

when the iowa state fair this week end, donald trump offered his helicopter for rides to children but one young boy might have gotten the best scoop of all. let's listen this. >> mr. trump. >> yes. >> are you batman? >> i am batman. [ laughter ] >> we'll be right back because you can't beat that. [ laughter ]

the policies of the bush administration, none more so than the war in iraq. of course hillary clinton on the other hand represents the obama party, will the yes or no faction win?

>> i think some version of the no faction will win. >> i agree. >> if you look at the polls, the no candidates are surging. >> bush is down to single digit, the yes candidate. how do you see the republicans going? yes or no? >> the republicans are going to have to take a lot of no because with that yes i think it will be a no. >> absolutely a yes candidate. absolutely. >> so you think bush will win? >> i do. this is the silly season and the fun season. i think this is ephemeral. i think this will pass. >> why is bush in single digits? >> because we talk about trump all the time. >> we've known about the bushes for 40 years. >> once people start making real choices, activists start participating in primaries and caucuses -- >> okay, let's get the democratic side. the democratic side, will hillary clinton hold her lead? it's not much right now. >> she's got to get all of this e-mail stuff behind her to be able to keep that lead and she's going to have to push like bernie sanders into the no category so she can become -- >> she has to run against the

way things are. >> she has to go more left. >> is that dangerous, howard? >> it's dangerous because the public is not in a happy mood. if you ask where the public is, they're in a no mood. >> for the moment. for the moment. >> in the general election, that favors the republicans if they have a plausible candidate. i don't think it's likely to be jeb bush. >> but there isn't a plausible no candidate. >> there isn't a plausible no candidate. >> in 1968, we ended up with nixon, the ultimate yes candidate. he was like a challenge to the system, too. let's disagree here, after all this fighting and anger among african-americans, among hispanic, among whites, among everybody young and old, everybody's bitching right now and we'll end up with jeb bush after all that? >> but you've seen the program. you've seen the declarations trump made today on immigration. you've seen -- >> but he has a plan.

>> there are no plans. even the plan -- you're going to deport 12 million people. >> what's bush's plan. >> you're going to wreak havoc on the economy? at the end of the day, this is a sun of frustration. voters, as they've done, n the past, will come to their senses. >> listen, richard nixon had the ability to run the "let's bring us together --" remember, he road -- ran on the bring us together campaign. i don't see -- >> he was a yes candidate. >> i like jeb bush. i don't see him having the arm strength. >> marco rubio. >> what a lively show it's been on a monday. adolfo franco, thank you. you want to disagree, fair enough. when we return, let me finish donald trump and why his immigration plan may just resonate with american voters. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics. hard ball.

let me finish tonight with the reason donald trump is getting huge attention with his immigration proposal. it's because he's the only candidate who people at least believe is saying someone. does anyone trust the other candidates to deal with the challenge of illegal immigration?

does anyone believe any politician who is ready with a plan to end the endless talk about illegal immigration and the endless failure to stop it? if illegal immigration doesn't bother you or grab you as an issue, pay attention to those it does bother. people who care about illegal immigration have one candidate speaking out about it. people who are saying me, too on this, trump is saying something. maybe, just maybe, it will get others to speak out with credible workable fixes to the problem. senator schumer and lindsey graham have both backed the bipartisan senate bill which includes enforcement against illegal hiring in this country. for that, they deserve credit. the late ted kennedy was also for that bill. either we have a country or we don't. and that's what donald trump says. either we enforce our laws or don't. we aren't going to send people out of the country who have been here for years. just maybe trump's over-the-top idea, though, will get the so-called responsible politicians to start taking

responsibility. and end this endless babble about which the country's establishment has proven worthless to fix. i mean it, they don't do the job. he's talking a plan. that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in --" >> they're calling it the summer of trump. >> the summer of the trump continues. >> they have to go. >> as the republican front-runner gets radical on the border. >> people are standing up and cheering. >> and kind of reasonable on iran? >> the deal lives in a trump administration? you're just going to be -- >> it's very hard to say we're ripping up -- >> tonight, why donald trump is closer to the average voter than the rest of the republican field. plus, is the speculation over hillary's e-mail getting out of control? >> her arrogance is breathtaking. >> and the passing of a civil rights icon. >> i think we have to each other, black legislators, white