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>> yeah. >> you don't hit them if a face with a football. awe! it happens. with us on set in washington -- >> doesn't have to, though. >> it shouldn't. >> yeah. >> anyhow. >> that is good entertainment. >> it was catchable. >> it was. >> mistakes were made. >> senior political editor and white house correspondent from the huffington post sam stein, you're in big trouble. >> i am? >> yes. >> eugene robinson joins us. senior political columnist for national journal rob fournier, nbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee with us, michael steele. >> a lot to talk about. >> the paper world is talking about one story other than donald trump, of course.

and, my goodness. that was an awkward press conference. and i just -- when you were watching it, i was listening to the words. it was oh, my god. you are looking at her face. >> yeah. >> said she's not keeping up with this. >> i just -- and then shook my head and walked away. because this is so salt inflicted. it is frustrating. so far, more than 300 e-mails from hillary clinton's private server have been flagged for further review. but clinton in a contentious news conference played down the significance of the questions, saying the same issues would have come up even if she used a government server. >> i mean in retrospect what was supposed to be convenient has turned out to be anything but convenien convenient. >> if i had a separate government account so that i had a totally designated government account and a totally designated personal account and i started

running for president and i said i want the american people to see everything that was part of my time in the state department. because i think it's educational and i want the state department to release all of my e-mails, which they already had, by the way. you know, in the government computer system. we would be going through the same process. it has nothing to do with me. it has nothing to do with the fact that my account was personal. it's the process by which the government and sometimes in disagreement between various agencies of the government make decisions about what can and cannot be disclosed. >> bob woodward was suggesting there was shades of -- and he said at the very least you stonewalled and he said you should tell the american people i'm sorry, i was wrong. but instead in recent days

you're talking about snapchat and blaming republicans. is leadership about taking responsibility. >> i take responsibility. no matter what anybody tries to say, the facts are stubborn. what i did was legally permitted. number one. first and foremost. okay? number two, i turned over out of an abundance of an attempt to be helpful over anything that i thought was even vaguely related. >> two inspectors generals stla are hundreds, they believe -- force. >> but, ed, you're not listening to me. ed, if it were -- >> independent inspectors. >> if it were a government account, they would be saying the same thing. the fact -- >> either way -- >> no. look, this -- >> classified information got out. >> this is a -- first of all that, is not in any way agreed upon. state department disagrees. that happens all the time in these efforts to say what can go out and what can't go out.

that is a part of the ordinary process. everybody's actsing like this is the first time it's ever happened. it happens all the time. what you're seeing is a disagreement between agencies saying, you know what? they should have. and the other is saying no, they shouldn't. that has nothing to do with me. if hit been a government account and i said release it, we would be having the same arguments. >> did you try to wipe out the whole server? >> i'm not -- i have no idea. that's why we turned it over. >> people were in charge of it. you were the official in charge. did you wipe the server? >> like with a cloth or something? >> i don't know. you know how it works. did you try to wipe it. >> i don't know how it works digitally. >> did you not try? >> ed, i know you want to make a point. i can just repeat what i have said. >> it's a simple question. >> in order to be as cooperative as possible, we have turned over the server. they can do whatever they want to with the server to figure out what's there or what's not there. that's for the people

investigating it to try to figure out. but we turned over everything that was work related. every single thing. personal stuff we did not. i had no obligation to do so. and did not. >> is this an indication that this issue isn't going to go away for the remainder of your campaign? >> nobody talks to me about it other than you guys. >> i don't know where to begin. there were so many things she said that caused people around this table to shake their head. it was so clearly false. and this is the thing she keeps doing with people that are even on her side playing them for fools. ron fournier, i was trying down the the number of things that hillary clinton said yesterday that we all know are objectively false based on previous statements, based on -- not opinion, but just outright false. how many did you count? >> yesterday i counted six.

what she is doing is following the script that is laid out in that spin document last week that you can easily parse and see example after example of either deceptions, deflections or flat out untruths. if you're saying something that you know is untrue, that's a lie. i think by this time she's got to know, for example, that it was against federal policy to have a server off the books and all of our e-mails on the server. she must know by now it doesn't matter whether or not the documents were marked classified or not. there's been people prosecuted for mishandling classified documents that were not marked classified. so she's saying things she must know or certainly should know. >> so voluntarily turning over servers and contacted the lawyer and said hold those, we're going to need them. can you go down the list. >> it's a long list. we keep writing over and over again, we keep saying over and over again that she's -- these are self inflicted wounds and

it's, you know, i'm kind of getting tired of the story, frankly, and hearing myself talk. but i know here's what's going to happen. the fbi is looking into this. the same person petraeus is looking into this. the same person that represented petraeus is representing hillary clinton. she's paying a big price politically. and she might pay a big price criminally. >> gene robinson, it's -- your name came up yesterday in the press conference. she obviously did not read your article. it was more stonewalg and more statement that's are openly false. >> we've already used the words self inflicted. hillary clinton should not have to be answering questions like this at this point in the campaign. the reason she does is summed up in the phrase private e-mail server. >> by the way, a private e-mail server we found out yesterday from the daily mail was kept in

a bathroom closet in a denver, colorado, condo. that's where america's national security secrets were being kept. >> not a server she turned over. it's a server we found out about because of a congressional investigation. >> that's true. again, if you decide that i'm special enough that i can do this, right? you know -- >> against federal regulations. >> right. then you're open to questions about laws that are on the books. about like where classified information can reside. if you are secretary of state and you are doing your job, sensitive information, classified, top secret, the whole range is going to come to your attention. it has to. you're secretary of state. so it's inevitable that your e-mail server, if you have it and i thought it was in the house in new york but now it's in denver or -- >> in a bathroom condo.

>> it's inevitable that information that shouldn't is going to transit that machine at the very least. and probably reside in that machine. you put that fact against statutes and you potentially have a problem. >> yeah. >> and there is a huge problem. i mean the fact that, again, this small business that nobody ever heard inform denver, colorado, kept their servers. again in, a cloz netset in denv colorado in a condo is breath taking. i will tell the people at home is wondering is this partisan. i don't think anybody thinks this is partisan anymore. i can tell you i got flooded with e-mails and if you want to know where a collection of gasps came up during hillary clinton's e-mail conference, i mean the conference? the white house. white house people working in the white house cannot believe she keeps saying that this was okay with the white house.

that this was okay according to the law. they cannot believe it. inside the obama white house that she continues to act this way. >> well, and then there's questions for the state department. but michael, before it gets to you and what republicans can do with this, people like sam stein have questions to ask and i think it becomes at this point not a partisan attack. i can't think of a way to move forward if i had an opportunity to interview hillary clinton without saying i don't have an answer to this question. it doesn't make sense. and we're worried that you haven't told the truth. >> yeah. i mean, we could all have anticipated this moment 5 1/2 months ago when the story first broke, right? >> no, actually, a lot of people didn't. >> i'm saying they could have made the calculation that this would be the inevitable end game of the story. and they could have gone ahead of it a little more than they

have by voluntarily turning over the server, by sitting her down and having her answer questions in the immediate moment that had become revealed she was only using private e-mail account, for instance. >> why do you think she did that? it was the right thing to do. why do you think she did? >> why i do think she did that? >> i think there's a mix of things here. one is i think they do legitimately believe that while, yes, she was skirting the letter of the law here, she wasn't doing anything fundamentally different than previous secretary of states. i think they believe. that i'm not saying i believe it. they believe. that they also believe that she, like every other public servant is entitled to having private e-mails. that doesn't mean she should control which ones are public and which ones are private. they do believe she has entitlement to have the private e-mail account. there is a sense she was doing things slightly different. >> they knew from the very beginning and we had people come on and there would be something the day before on "the new york times" saying there is a 2009 regulation that shez you are not

allowed to do this. you must have your e-mails saved and retained inside the department in which you work. enthe next day they would pretend like that didn't even happen. james carville would come on and go, look at that. and they would say look over there. where they knew from the very beginning that the obama -- and by the way, ask the obama administration on or off the record if there was a regulation in place. and they will tell you -- >> don't take ignorance as an offense. >> this brings up a very important point which, is you know, we will find out eventually how bad the situation is for her as we come to know how many e-mails should not have been on that server. maybe what the e-mails said. i doubt those will get public. but there is a broader point that you're getting at here which is also troubling which is she surrounds herself with people who are are afraid to tell her no. you can't do that. >> one of the most disturbing

parts is when she says you're the only ones telling me about this. that is the first true thing she has said because she is surrounded by people who were afraid to tell hert truth. >> but people are interested in this. a couple things, new national polling among democratic voters is out. just crossed. hillary clinton is 47% down from 56% in july. bernie sanders is up 29%, up from 19% in july. and just to your point here, i want to get to michael steele., they acknowledged there was an attempt to wipe the server before turned over to the fbi which is disturbing. >> and something she wouldn't say. >> sources tell nbc news that despite claims the server was purged, fbi investigators believe they can retrieve some of it. she maintains she neither sent nor received embarrass with information marked classified. then she says this happens all the time. i'm going to read this and then

michael steel e., it's all yours. the company that operate the clinton's server kept the servers in the bathroom, as you mentioned, in bathroom closets. former employees call plat river networks a mom and pop shop and tell the website the company worked out of a lock add apartment in denver. some servers there were apparently stored in a small bathroom closet on site. >> and that's is -- >> secretary of state. >> in the age of putin and in the age of north korean hackers and the age of chinese hackers. >> michael steele. >> we can hook up your e-mail needs. >> the safe is on the first floor of a condo. >> you should see donald trump's bathroom. it's the greatest bathroom ever. >> on his plane.

>> this is between now and this time next year, you're going to have a federal investigation that is going to be on going and is going to be, i think, the d administration, you're going to see a drip, drip, drip of information from. that but then you're going to have the benghazi investigation this fall in which the chairman says, look, i only need to see her once. but we're going to make it a marathon. and so now you got to -- >> and we're both republicans. they should stay out of the way. >> let the story speak for itself. >> they should keep their head down and ask her just for the facts. >> absolutely. >> and tell every member of the committee, if you want to make a speech, go home to the club and make the speech. it's not going to be at this level. >> i think that's the approach that gowdy is going to take. >> it's not just trey gowdy now. >> that's true. >> here's the thing. keep in mind, right after benghazi, the problem with the

benghazi story is those republicans so anxious to jum on hillary clinton made it a political issue as opposed to a substantive story about foreign policy and process within the administration. they cannot afford given how much hillary has done damage to herself to take her off the hook by demagoguing on the issue. let her talk. as the smart questions and just reel her in. that's the only way this is -- anything else and she's going to slip. >> i want to add a couple guys that can add perspective. i was talking to somebody -- >> it's entertainment to you. >> you were reading "maxum" in your bathroom when this was happening. a guy said he was covering national politics. he's been covering for 30 years. i've seen everything. he said, since robert bork,

every dustup, every scandal has been partisan. you've had the conservative commentators attacking or defending, the liberal commentators. he said this is the first did you tell dustup, scandal where i've seen among elite leaders in the media and politics disgusted across the board. they say it is -- other than the clinton campaign, he said get them off camera and everybody is shaking their head. everybody regardless of their ideology saying this is really serious. and it's really, really bad. >> i haven't seen a time since impeachment when democrats defended the president he should not have been impeached and should have been able to finish the term, but democrats were disgusted by the behavior in '98. that's what you're getting now. i'm talking to people inside hillary clinton world, inside

bill clinton world and all the circles around the clintons who are upset by this. and there's two big questions they're having, one, sam touched on and we rolled over as we talk about the bathroom and that is the idea of having yes people around her. what kind of president would she be if she has people around her saying you know what you're saying about the server is wrong you? can't do that. or have the guts don't do this with the server. what kind of president she going to be if she's that insulated from the truth? and secondly, the credibility. democrats can see she's not telling the truth. democrats can see the campaign is lying to them. and that makes them wonder about -- >> everybody knows, gene. everybody knows she's not telling the truth including people on her campaign and yet, she keeps doing it. it is a painful, painful thing to watch. >> right. i think the calculation such as it is must be tough it out,

tough it out. people will eventually lose interest. it will eventually go away. it can't at this point because because there are investigations going on. and the fbi has the server and it's going to get information off that server. we're going to hear, for example, are there any backups of any of this information anywhere? and we're going to swarm to that. >> what a mess. >> a little data point that makes it worse for her, at least politically speaking is what you have now is a judge who is saying he needs periodic updates about what's on that server. so that means that periodically we will have that number of e-mails with potentially classified information increase. so everyone knows there's going to be more e-mails, right? it went up it 305 this week. the press reacted rightfully. so wow, that's a lot of e-mails. that number is going to go up. they're still just going through the 60,000 or so e-mails they revealed. >> we are really backed up with other things. >> we have to say though, there

is no logical conclusion as to why she is stonewalling unless there is something in the other e-mails that she just doesn't want out s there? is there any logical conclusion? nothing was sent knowingly classified. >> but she said that from the beginning. it's false. >> we know that's wrong. >> that's already been proven false. >> she said it went into her e-mail system. was it marked classified? you can parse it. but if you do look at it that way -- >> sam stein, a secretary of state that receivsends e-mails knows what's classified, has the responsibility according to the law to know what's classified. people have been prosecuted for sending things that are not

marked. that mark, ron fournier, that whole it wasn't marked classified is a red herring and has absolutely no basis in law. >> it is a complete deflection. i think it's very possible we could find out that she's totally exonerated and she's been stonewalling for no reason. but because of the way they misled and the way they stonewalled, the american people have every right and we in the press have the responsibility to ask what were you hiding? what were you hiding? >> up next, the summer of trump continues as the new poll out moments ago now shows him within striking distance of hillary clinton in a general election. plus, will the no vote from senator bob menendez inspear other democratic defections on president obama's nuclear deal with iran snt former chairman of the foreign relations company joins us this morning. also, hard ball's chris matthews, general michael hayden and campbell brown from new hampshire ahead of her big

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all right. we have a new poll out just moments ago showing a tightening race on the democratic side, hillary clinton now below 50% against vermont senator bernie sanders. 29% among likely primary voters. clinton is down nine points. sanders has risen ten points, a nearly 20 point swing in the last month. among registered voters, clinton's favorability rating is just 43% and her unfavorables are at 55%, a six point increase from last month. and in the national head-to-head matchups, donald trump is closing the gap, down just six points. >> look at that number. look at that number. here we were a couple months ago. let's go to donald trump's new friend. i guess we call him fot. his new fot, gene robinson. you know, it wasn't too long ago

that donald trump was down by 20, 25, 30 points. if you see him down by six points, you get the feeling that's not just republicans. that's a lot of independents now that are starting to get onboard trump. six points. >> he is now been leading the republican race long enough that people are getting used to that. and getting used to -- and when you're leading the republican field, people start thinking of you as a real candidate as opposed to a reality show candidate. and, in fact, they start taking seriously the possibility that you could be running for president. >> michael steele., if you look at the numbers it's donald trump can't win. he matches up the most unfavorably against everybody else, now he's matching up better against hillary than jeb and the same with scott walker. >> yeah. it's amazing. and all of this is happening

just as folks are beginning to tune in. as we know this time of year everyone is coming back in, kids are getting ready for school and folks are settling back in. so you have the story on e-mails breaking. you have trump not just maintaining but rising in the polls. you think about everything before the debate, post debate, only lost one point and then started to gain again. >> getting into specifics here. >> there's more. taking a closer look at just republican voters, donald trump climbed six points since july. he is nearly doubling jeb bush and almost tripling everyone else in the republican field. but that's not the only place trump leads. he and bush hold the top two spots among republicans on all the issues polled and trump towers over book on the economy. 45% to 8%. on immigration, 44% to 12%. on who would best handle isis, 32% to 16%. and even on social issues where bush led in june, trump pulled ahead.

trump is the leading -- >> i want to say, go back to the last clart forhart for a second. 45 to 8, trump over bush. >> now that's entertainment, sam stein. >> it is. rn are you not entertained? >> a majority of republican voters say the party would have had a better chance in the general election with someone other than trump. among all registered voters, trump's favorable rating is at 40%. but his favorable number is better in this poll than jeb bush's. >> where to begin? well, the huffington post is doubling down on the decision to label the coverage of trump's presidential campaign as entertainment despite the fact that donald trump is within six points of hillary clinton. it is dominating jeb bush, dominating the republican field. >> go home and tell them to

change it. >> well, can i defend our website? >> no. you may not. please don't. >> the website -- >> i'm curious. >> so let's read the statement first. the website said over the last month of trump dominating the polls, they say, "we're still not taking the bait." over the last month we've seen the central argument proven right that trump is nothing more than a side show and a legitimate -- not a legitimate presidential contend we are serious policy ideas for moving the country forward." after that statement was made, they then ran to hillary clinton's press conference and fed her the answers from ed henry. >> i have a problem with this. this reminds me of the fox debate. it's like a news organization trying to, like, control something and move ate long in the direction that they believe is righteous. i'm sorry. think of that debate. doesn't it seem crazy? >> you know with all due respect

to sam, i think it's crazy. we can't dictate the news and we can't dictate who republican voters say they want to have as president. we have to cover that person. i mean we just have to. who are we? >> someone said if huffington post is going to treat donald trump like entertainment, maybe they should treat hillary clinton like action. that smart aleck was me. >> i thought you were going to stop. >> you can't call somebody with those poll numbers a side show anymore. >> you got to step back and cover the story on both sides. >> sam stein, do you care to defend your institution? >> are we going to shut up and let him talk? >> so let's step back for a second and let's look at this as a meta commentary. we're living in a world this is not disputable, that is vastly

different than it was a while ago. party bosses don't pick a presidential candidate but we have emergence of politics entertainment. it's a fact. and donald trump is better at it than anyone we've ever had before. and that doesn't mean it's pejorative to call him an entertainer. he said look at what i'm doing for fox news debates. the numbers are out of control. more viewers than ever. he himself seesentertainer who . and we are just -- >> would you put ronald reagan on the entertainment section? he's a businessman. >> a businessman with a reality tv show. this is not a pejorative -- this is us acknowledging that we live in a political system in which entertainment is very good in the polls. >> i love arianna but this is arianna and donald trump fighting each other is what it is. it needs to change soon. donald trump is not a side show. donald trump is in first place. >> i think the issues donald

trump is raising serious, political, substantive issues, for instance, birthright citizenship. that is not an entertainment matter. we won't cover it as an entertainment matter. but trump himself is an entertainer in politics and we're covering him as such. >> we're going to worry about this later. next, it ran nuclear deal and isis and hillary clinton's e-mail controversy. there is plenty to talk about with the former cia director general michael hayden. he joins us next. i'm going to ask him about marked document that's were marked classified and not and whether he in his position knew the difference. >> that will be interesting. we'll be right back.

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whether or not the supportist of the agreement admitted, the deal is based on hope. hope that when the nuclear sunset clause expired, iran will have succumbed to global integration, hope that hard-liners would have lost their power, hope that regime will allow the iranian people to decide their fate. and hope is part of human nature. but unfortunately, it is not a national security strategy. >> that was democratic senator bob menendez of new jersey announcing his opposition of the

iran nuclear deal. joining us now, former directsor of the cia and nsa, now a principal of the cehertock grou. >> it's been your job to protect classified material for very long time. this morning you wake up and you find out that the secretary of state, for several years, had classified documents going through a server that was in an apartment loft bathroom in denver, colorado. can you even begin to tell us what you would have done if you found out someone working with you while you're at the cia had done this? >> let me turn that around, joe and ask a slightly different question. what would i have done as the director of nsa against a foreign minister who had done that? i'd move heaven and earth to access the private e-mail account of a foreign minister. and i really go after an e-mail account in which the official

and the unofficial e-mails were co-mingled. you put a very juicy target out there. >> how easy would that be? >> well, fraly, not very difficult if you have the resources and talented foam eeo go after it. they do this all the time against better defended targets than we saw in the loft in the apartment in denver. i think the fundamental issue is to sit here and, ron, you mentioned this, to sit here and the original sin is the original sin. the original sin is actually co-mingling the two accounts and not using a government e-mail server. look, there's a big gray area that exists even in the unclassified government e-mail accounts. but you're fire walled against most wrongdoing there by the fact you're using a government account that has some protections to it. once you remove that, i'm stunned that her staff allowed her to do that in 2009 given the

unhappy outcome that this guaranteed once you started doing that. >> i thought it was legal and that everything was aboveboard. >> number one, put legality aside for a second, it's stupid and dangerous. >> dangerous? >> dangerous to her. and to the republic and to american secrets. but i don't even think it was legal. that has to be against policy. look, most folks like me, i never had a smart phone until i left government because of the sensitivity of the information i would put on there even if it were unclassified. >> right. >> part of the -- one of the mitigating factors the campaign is trying to use, part of the spin is, look, the state department gets hacked, too. is there any merit to that? >> sure, there s again, back tok a foreign intelligence agency, i go after the state department on classified e-mail accounts, too, because those are connected to the world wide web. they're attractive targets. but nonetheless, you still are

protected because now you are relying on the government standard to protect what you believe to be unclassified e-mails rather than this role of the dice for some private company. >> the argument is that government protection isn't any better than the private protection. >> well, actually, in a legal ethical policy sense, the argument doesn't matter. the government bears responsibility over here. you bear responsibility over here. >> that's like saying you get in a car descent 55 miles an hour or 120 miles an hour, what's the difference between going 120 miles an hour around the curb and going 55 miles an hour? i want to go to another thing that i heard a lot of pushback from the intel community on, a the love angry people when hillary clinton suggests and her people suggest well nothing was marked classified. so there's no legal jeopardy here or even political jeopardy. can you explain to our viewers that it is a responsibility of the person that is receiving and

sending material to make the assumption whether it's classified or not? >> no. particularly with regard to the person who is sending the material, look, i've been on the show a lot. you ask me questions. i have to answer with one lobe and not the other lobe. i know what is classified over here and what is unclassified over here. and so all of the time when you using an unclassified forum, you got to filter what it is you say. the problem the secretary has is she created an environment in which people could only communicate with her through this one medium. and, therefore, what she's done is set up circumstances where almost certainly people are beginning to shade in the direction of well this is the only way i can tell her. >> gene? >> do you -- what can you tell us that you know of the practice of the secretaries of state while you were -- >> gene, i really don't know what her predecessors used. but the fact of the matter, when we first learned of the private

server, that was incomprehensible for anybody with my kind of background in government. >> and assuming that an attempt was made or carried out to actually wipe the server, meaning to override the data, it is very difficult to get. can that be gotten back? >> in many circumstances it can. and in many circumstances nsa has gone after servers that have been captured in raids overseas that the target thought it was wiped and nsa has been able to retrieve data. >> can i ask a question about iran? >> sure. >> thank you. >> wait. is this under entertainment or foreign policy? >> wow. >> it just continues. >> the first time joe's done that. >> i believe you're skeptical if not skeptical about the deal.

everyone outside the united states congress and government has said that if this deal goes down, it will be virtually impossible to get the p-5 plus one back to the table to apply those sanctions against iran. simply because they want to do business with iran. let's call it what it, is right? so if that's the case, how do you go about getting a better deal? >> that is really hard, sam. the first vote, the one coming up, i think the no vote there is pretty easy. what we don't want is to suggest there is political consensus in this country that we're all in favor of this deal. so the first vote, no. the president vetoes it. now you got a really serious vote. this is the one that counts. i actually think there are plans b, c, and d. there is not just a binary choice between this or war. but i have no confidence that this government would aggressively pursue plans b, c, or d simply because of policy choices. >> again, how are plans b, c and d achievable if you don't have

any of the allied powers at the table with you? >> again, my point, sam, you don't have the allied powers at the table with absent very powerful, very strong, very ib siftant american leadership. and so even i am troubled by the second no vote that perhaps would overturn a veto because then you have a sharp u-turn with no actionable plan b. >> are you saying the united states would have to muscle, cajole and yank the p-5 plus one back to the table? >> i want to clarify. so for everybody at home that's watching, general is saying a no vote, the first time, is simple. it's a protest vote to let iran know that we're very uncomfortable with the deal and you can look at the poll that she showed americans are uncomfortable with the deal. but it you're saying we have the congress override the veto, that sends a very troubling message to the rest of the world? >> i am troubled that we wouldn't have the energy,

>> i would add other things, too. increased arment amounts to the israelis including the massive ordinance penetrator, the weapon they need. then you have a american political consensus that trends towards the middle rather than a vote that's been passed on purely partisan -- >> general hayden, thank you very much. up next, is donald trump the american version of vladimir

putin? david ignatius asks that in the latest question. the must-read opinion pages are next on "morning joe." >> trump keeps his shirt on. >> that's true. that's true. [whirring drones] just stay calm and move as quietly as possible. ♪ [whirring drones] ♪ no sudden movements. ♪ [screaming panic] ♪ [whirring drones] google search: bodega beach house. ♪

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plus, with most insurance a safelite repair is no cost to you. really?! being there whenever you need us... that's another safelite advantage. safelite repair, safelite replace. >> all right. i'm going to try goat a must read in here. chief white house correspondent for "politico" joins us, mike allen. >> he's tired. he's been doing the show a lot. >> that's what he was writing yesterday. >> he promises to restore his country's greatness without offering a specific plan. he uses crude, vulgar expressions that make him sound like an ordinary guy even though he's a billionaire.

he's a narcissist that creates media attention and he's very popular. whom am i referring to? russian president vladimir putin, of course, but the parallels with a certain american politician known as "the donald" are obvious. trump has got a wide following. he is running a campaign devoid of ideas. the bullying authoritarian personality, the putin style usually doesn't work here. this summer has been an exception. but history suggests that it won't last." >> only -- >> i see one line in here that's wrong. >> only if trump invade ukraine. >> one more for the list, do you think he advantage wished and then back. >> exactly. >> what is surprising about trump is he attracted such a wide following. i'm going to have to ask david ignatius to watch television and talk to people. he has a huge following, and he has for years, long before he

decided to run for president. this is just me speaking a fact, not siding with trump. >> and it's a massive following. it's not just lower class as a lot of people condescendingly said this weekend on the sunday shows. it's middle class and even upper middle class business people. >> absolutely. and so when you talk to these campaigns, two things are going on. one, there's a desperate effort to figure out who these voters really are. who the trump campaign and the demographics of them and how you adapt to them. we're seeing scott walker do things the other candidates should have done long ago. he is tapping into something that is obviously deep. why can't the other candidates do a better job of channelling that? we're seeing scott do it a little columlumsyly. >> and for some reason, he may be a billionaire, but people really connect with him. blue collar folks are feeling like they could be him.

>> it could be a woman from new hampshire, blue collar working mom say he's one of us. that tells you a lot about what he's able to do, his ability to draw people into him. you know, the whole thing with the helicopter at the fair was just -- that's exactly, you know, the billionaire brings his toys, too. we get to bplay with them. that's something that a lot of americans find refreshing in addition to the political speak. remember, we just spent the past year or so talking about how nasty and terrible people of wealth there. and donald trump in his own way is beginning to show well that's not necessarily the case. i can be one of you, too. >> we need to go to break. i want to continue this conversation though into the next hour. mike allen, stick around. still ahead, we got bob woodward us with. and we promise that we're going to stop him from obsessively talking about donald trump. >> i don't think we can do it. he can't do it. >> we're going to talk about the iran deal like we tried for 15, 20 minutes when he spent that 15 or 20 minutes telling us how we

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coming up at the top of the hour -- >> it's one of those stories or emblematic and the other is -- >> okay. okay, guys. a defiant hillary clinton doubles down denying any wrongdoing over her private e-mail server and why a new

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experts are saying during the debate he spoke at a fourth grade leading level. actually, it seems the longer trump is in the race, the more he seems to be dumbing it down. >> you know, i know the smartest negotiators in the world. the donors see me and say i don't need money. i never took your money. you have no krochlt bye-bye. bing, bing, bong, bong, bing,

bing. >> bing, bong, bing, bing, bong. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe" live in washington. eugene robinson is still with us. mike allen as well and the host of msnbc's "hardball," chris matthews joins the table. chris -- >> thank you. >> -- good to have you onboard this morning. >> ron fournier, chris and i were talking about something. i ron, i want you to pass that by chris what you said about trump and hillary actually the two stories playing off each other. >> we have hillary clinton playing into the people's disgust with politics, not transparent, not accountable, not honest, playing by her own set of rules. she is emblematic of what has people angry about politics. and trump is exploiting it. trump is exploiting people's anger and disgust for politics. >> and these two stories going at the same time, chris? >> yeah. i didn't think of them together. maybe people do. i think trump is on to something

when he talks about either we have a country or we don't. and the nationalism. i think that people who use phrases like undocumented workers are not really seriously concerned about illegal immigration. they find a better way of phrasing it rather than dealing with the problem. if you don't care about illegal immigration, fine. but if you do, trump is the only one that seems to have a proposal which as outrageous as it, is it's a proposal. the others don't. they don't. and the polling we showed last night is overwhelming. people trust the guy at least his proposal. >> i want to ask you this, too. i noticed from the beginning of this trump explosion, we've had a lot of people around our table that are skeptical of trump. sort of dismissive of the people who followed him from the beginning. >> yeah. >> you got trump. i'm wondering is that your philadelphia upbringing? no, i'm serious. the people you grew up in the neighborhood and you kind of like i know what republicans probably going to win at the end. i always saw my dad sitting in his chair watching cronkite and then watching the republicans.

you sensed it from the beginning that this trump thing wasn't a joke, that it may have been wrapped in some jokes but that people were going to get it. what is it about trum sp. >> i worked as a capitol cop as my first job. i worked for a west virginia guy. he was a country boy. he was an mp in the military like a lot of the cops were. and he took me aside and he said his protege college kid. and he said, you know why the little man loves his country, chris? and i said, no. he said because it's all he's got. he doesn't have mb, famous kids, all this going for him much he just has his country, his flag, he feels as he looks at the debt, he looks at the border and the way people treat citizenship is we don't have to have it to live here, he looks at jobs going overseas or jobs going to people in the country illegally and not him, he goes who is looking out for my country? that's all i got is my country.

and i think rightly or wrongly, i don't think moral judgment or os moes is about politics, this guy got it. he said we have a country or we don't much it's no the just about illegal people working here, it's about looking after your country. the big shots in washington and new york, they don't need their country. they got it. it's part of their life. they're not struggling and worrying about it. the working guy says who is looking out for my country? and it's -- you can call it nasty or whatever you want, people who say who cares about that stuff or we need workers heen and all this. but he's worried about the one thing he's got is his country. and for whatever reason trump up in his high gold you to we are his beautiful wife and his billions or whatever, he somehow talks like that guy. >> yes, he does. >> and that's it. >> yeah. >> mike? >> mika, there are points that chris and ron are making as why there is a view of trump inside the clinton inner circle.

the initial view was trump is great. he gives us space. he distracts attention from hillary's problem, he makes the republicans look crazy. but now they're realizing that if america is mad and there's this huge anti-establishment wave in washington sh that's never going to be her. and that's wrong. >> and look at this, gene robinson. donald trump down 20, 25 points before. not so long ago, maybe even a month ago. now he's within six of hillary clinton. doing better than jeb bush even against -- and we look at those numbers. i tell you what, there is a lot of independents in those numbers, i'm sure without even looking at the cross tabs. there are a lot of people saying wait a second this may actually give me an alternative, voting against a clinton -- i can vote against a clinton and a bush at the same time. >> yeah. >> no, absolutely. you know, it's a same sort of feeling i got when we -- you know, chris and i were in

cleveland and you were in cleveland for the recent debate. and you talk to the sort of republican party grandees who are walking throughout streets and they were still dismissive and it was just the it's all over. he's going to look like an idiot. ordinary folks were not dismissive at all. it's this disconnect in washington and out there. but if this campaign evolves into donald trump and then a whole bunch of other people trying to sound like donald trump, donald trump wins. >> right. trump on the economy, 45-8. isis, 32-16. >> nobody is going to outtrump, trump. it's not going to happen. >> you look at the economy. 45 to 8 number, meek yashgs ika unbelievable. >> you go from the numbers to this story. 300 e-mails from hillary clinton's private server have been flagged for further review. but clinton in a contentious news conference with the press yesterday played down the

significance of the questions saying the same issues would have come up even if she had used a government server. >> in retrospect what supposed to be convenient has turned out to be anything but convenient. if i had a separate government account so that i had a totally designated government account and a totally designated personal account and i started running for president and i said i want the american people to see everything that was part of my time in the state department because i think it's educational and i want the state department to release all of my e-mails, which they already have, by the way. you know, in the government computer system. we would be going through the same process. it has nothing to do with me. and it has nothing to do with the fact that my account was personal. it's the process by which the government and sometime in disagreement between various

agencies of the government make decisions about what can and cannot be disclosed. bob woodward yesterday was suggesting there are shades of watergate here and how you're reacting. and eugene robinson, who's not a conservative, liberal columnist for the wosh wosh post said that at the very least you stonewalled and you should tell the american people i'm sorry, i was wrong. but instead in recent days, you've been talking about snapchat and blaming republican attacks. it is leadership about taking responsibility? >> i do take responsibility. look, i take responsibility. no matter what anybody tries to say, the facts are stubborn. what i did was legally permitted. number one. first and foremost. okay? number two, i turned over out of an abundance of an attempt to be helpful over anything that i thought was even vaguely related. >> two inspectors general say that there are hundreds, they believe, of classified e-mails on --

>> ed yushgs n, you're not list me. >> these are independent inspectors. >> if it were a government account, they would be saying the same thing. the fact -- >> so it wouldn't be right then, right? >> look -- >> classified information got out. >> first of all that, is not in way agreed upon. state department disagrees. that happens all the time in these efforts to say what can go out and what can't go out. that is a part of the ordinary process. everybody's acting like this is the first time it's ever happened. it happens all the time. what you're seeing now is a disagreement between agencies saying, you know what? they should have and the other is saying, no, they shouldn't. that has nothing to do with me. if it had been a government account and i said release it, we would be having the same argument. did you try to wipe the server? >> i have no idea. that's why we turned it over. >> you were the official in charge. did you wipe the server? >> with a cloth or something?

>> you know how it works digitally. >> i don't know how it works digitally at all. >> you did not try? >> ed, i know you want to make a point. i can just repeat what i have said. >> it's a simple question. >> in order to be as cooperative as possible, we have turned over the server. they can do whatever they want to with the server to figure out what's there or what's not there. that's for the people investigating it to try to figure out. but we turned over everything that was work related, every single thing. personal stuff we did not. i had no obligation to do so. and did not. >> secretary, is this an indication that this issue isn't going go away for the remainder of your campaign? >> nobody talks to me about it other than you guys. >> clinton's campaign has previously acknowledged that there was an attempt to wipe the server before it was turned over last week to the fbi. sources tell nbc news that zbit claims the server was purged,

fbi investigators believe they can retrieve at least some of the data. clinton maintains she didn't receive or send e-mails with information marked classified. i heard over and over again these words, ordinary process happens all the time. >> turned it over voluntarily. >> none of it's true. go back to what chris was saying. where i grew up in michigan, people have been left behind about it economy for three decades. people have been disgusted by politics for three or four decades pechlt have been lied to like they are being lied to here over and over again. people have been seeing their government officials play by rules that the rest of them don't have. they've seen the media let them down. that's why whether donald trump last twoz more weeks or two terms if he doesn't turn this country around. if he doesn't give this anger a positive outlet, it's going to keep growing. and we're going to either lead

to a positive disruptor which is what barack obama promised nobody 2008 or we'll have something very negative. >> you followed the clins for 25, 30 years, is that one of the worst press conferences you've seen them give? >> yes. the difference between that and the best press conferences i saw her give in 1990, bill clinton was in danger of losing the democratic nomination. he was under attack by a very moderate, very former cabinet official named tom mccray. tom mccray was having a news conference talking about what a bad governor clinton was. and also we hear on the marble steps of the hallway, click, click, click. and it's hillary clinton coming in with a sheet of paper. all pot things tom mccray said about bill clinton and saying what you are doing? his campaign was over. bill clinton won the nomination. >> wow. what a moment. >> let me ask you this chris matthews. you winced as did we all when she talked about wiping the server with a cloth.

i saw it first last night on "hardball." i just sat there with my mouth open when she -- you know, she made the snap chat joke while the fbi is investigating, she's making this joke and the same day we find out the server is in a loft apartment in denver, colorado in a bathroom. general hayden here talking about the national security implications is staggering. what you are thinking when you see her? >> just from a press relations point of view, one of the first mistakes the clinton administration did when they first came in, remember they're going to clear out the press from the west wing? >> yeah. >> they were going to get them out of there. because they wanted to deal directly with the american people. through what? state of the union addresses? you can't -- you can't say it's just you guys talking about this stuff. because you guys is here. this is people watching television and follow politics. they care about these things and they're difficult and not always

fair in the coverage. but they have to deal with the press relations. she has a the love time. she's an amazing situation none of us investor been in or will ever be in. >> self inflicted. >> so far ahead in a nomination fight that you cannot lose and therefore she has -- the problem with that is kplasance and not having a topnotch approach to the press. >> and arrogance. >> that is an interpretive thing. but she is not worried about losing the nomination. she has plenty of time to fix this thing and start connecting with the press or some other strategy which is never worked which is don't connect with the press. >> mike? >> as we were listening to that sound, the people around the table she made the statements were saying not true. not true. something else that's not true is that exit line that chris was just referring to when she said it's just you guys. that's no longer true. you look this morning at the front page of the las vegas review journal above the fold. the coverage of her trip to vegas is clinton defends e-mail practices. we just popped up a story by

annie carney that goes inside the clinton campaign, talks about her top donors, top supporters, top visors that are worried about how she is and willing this. they tell us that david kendall, her lawyer, has too big a voice in this. that her answers are too lillis tick, the words that mika wrote down. and the campaign advisors are worried. they don't know what's on the 26,000 e-mails. so they're trying to talk about college plans, talk about policy. they know this is coming. october 22nd she's scheduled to testify about benghazi. we get another week of that coverage. then we're a year from the election. >> i'm sorry to interrupt. you know what is going on? the fact that they're all talking us to. because they can't talk to her. there's a frustration, i mean the big guys we talk, to the big guys on the show. the people we like personally. they all can't get in. and so they're lining up to get in.

>> i want to expand on this. two interesting things are happening is all the clinton people are talking to us off the record. >> because? >> because they can't talk to her about how shocked they are, how they can't get in. i had one person very high up say to me, "i didn't sign up for this. i did not sign up for this." and we're hearing the same thing from the obama administration. i'm sure you're hearing the same thing, chris and ron. the obama administration is shocked that she behaved in such a shoddy manner. >> at some point they have to be a part of this and same goes for the state department. >> yeah. >> the state department is -- >> they're kblcomplicit in the stonewalling. bill clinton's world has a problem with the way hillary clinton's world is running. it's getting that bad inside. >> i want to ask you, the boss here. >> she's talking to you. >> what did she mean by a cloth? was that a put down of the

question? was it an honest misunderstanding of the complexity of the machinery? >> she didn't seem to -- >> you know what it meant? what it meant is i'm being asked a question i have no answer. i have to kill for a little bit of time. she was completely knocked off guard. >> let me give you my answer. >> that is joe frasier hitting ali in the jaw and ali trying to stay on his feet. by the way, really quickly, then we'll go to the boss. >> i'm the boss. >> i know you are. and we said it before this is someone who is not used to being challenged. ed henry challengeder in a way she's not been clahallenged. >> the cloth and then the comment right after, i don't know how it all works. i actually think she may not. and that's an issue, too. as secretary of state when dealing with classified information, i'm sorry, you need to understand how e-mail works and if you're going to get a private server, you need to understand if it actually is a

private server. she didn't look like it. >> mika, she knows how it works. >> but you're not going to get a private server. that's the problem. you're not going to get a private server in a closet in denver. >> no, we can't let you go suggesting that there is any chance whatsoever that she didn't know what she was saying. >> i know her well enough to say she knows and joking there. >> i don't think either option, whether she doesn't fully understand classified e-mail systems or she actually knowingly did all this with complete understanding. i don't think either option is good for her. okay? >> that's true. >> joining us now from manchester, new hampshire, u.s. political editor for the daily mail who broke the news of the company that operated the clinton servers ran them out of a bathroom closet. david -- >> you just have to ask david, how did you find out it was in a

bathroom? >> in the potty? >> tell us about the story. what did you learn? >> well, we've got a whole cadre of investigative reporters that chase these things. we went and talked to former employees of the company who said, look, there is a mom and pop outfit. you know this doesn't make sense why we of all people would be handling sensitive classified stuff. and frankly doesn't make any sense at all. this is an organization that is politically connected, democrats in colorado. remember which is where the democrats had their convention in 2008. and aren't time that all of this was happening, they were running the company out of a loft apartment in denver. the only place they had for the servers, including the server that was running hillary clinton's e-mail traffic at the time wasn't a bathroom closet. >> what the heck? >> there was a lock on the closet. but that's what we reduced it to. i see no indication that company had any kind of security

clearance whatsoever. any kind of authority to be handling this kind of material even if nobody knew back then that there might be classified material, you know, there are dozens of companies on the gsa schedule that can you go to that are cleared to handle this kind of stuff. and i have to think at this point that the reason the clintons chose not to go with one of those companies and chose to go with a little mom and pop outfit is they really didn't want anybody to know what they were doing. and it's just -- the whole thing is ugly and getting worse by the day. >> ron fournier? >> the obvious question is why? why they went with this firm. i'm sure you're looking into whether there were political connectionors some reason why they picked this firm. do you have any idea why? >> at this point, here's what we know. we know that one of the founders of company is very connected to john hickenlooper, the colorado governor who is mayor of denver back in the day. we also know that another one of the high ups in this firm, plat river networks, was at one point touted to be renting his house

to joe biden during the 2008 democratic convention. bottom line is whatever the connections are, this is a democratic party connected firm. >> david, gene robinson here. do we know whether it was just the secretary of state's e-mail on the server or was it the whole clinton e-mail domain and thus, you know, former president clinton e-mail, chelsea clinton's e-mail? was it all on the server? >> what we know at this point is that hillary clinton's e-mails were transferred over and only those as far as we know at this point, it may change, but all we know is hillary clinton's e-mails were maged by plat river networks as she left the state department. this company took possession of the server, moved the data somewhere else and we're still trying to find out where that is. the fbi apparently is trying to figure that out, too. and then from that point onward,

managed hillary clinton's e-mail traffic. there is no evidence at this point that bill or chelsea or anybody else's e-mails were managed by that company at that point. but the story is moving so fast and changing so fast. who knows what the next press conference will be, what kind of jokes she'll be making about. that maybe there is a bathroom joke we haven't heard yet. >> david, thank you so much. i think actually, chris, the question that a lot of people are going to be asking is what david just asked is when there were so many firms she could have gone to that would have been approved, the only assumption can you make that she would go to a place that was so small that they could only shove a server inside of a bathroom closet suggests they wanted a server that was out of sight. >> you have to remember in hitchcock movies, what it is we're all fighting over? what is it she was hiding? i think the problem she got into is so deep and layered now.

it's hard to pull out of it. the original intent to keep secrecy was first of all she's maintaining a political army for four years. eight years. she has to keep the army together. 50 states, every friend she's got, the kid she got into stanford, the kid that didn't get in, the person she is helping and couldn't get the job for. you know politics. you have to keep up. there are thousands, tens of thousands of people, all that information is legitimate political information. and also scuttlebutt, did you hear what that clown said on joe's show? did youer that? that's ridiculous that person. all that information. it's not about a funeral. it's not about chelsea's wedding. it's enormous political information. and nobody talks about that legitimate vat of information she wanted to keep legitimately to herself. i don't understand why she had to do it this way. but that might be the motive behind it all. i have a lot of politics going on in my lichlt i don't want you to know about it. which is fair enough. >> one of the most damming things is what general hayden said earlier, by setting it up this way, she forced everybody

that needed to send classified information to the secretary of state of the united states of america to this one server that was backed up in a bathroom loft apartment in denver. >> chris, is it policy or protocol to be doing politics on the side while you're serving? because i don't think so. >> i know guys on capitol hill that had four cell phones. they had their official cell phone in washington. they had the personal cell phone in washington. they had -- and everybody i knew carried around two or three cell phones because they knew i cannot call somebody and ask for money on this government phone. and they would put it down. this is something that's, as you know, chris this is elementary. this is elementary for everybody that's serves in washington, d.c. >> but there is the problem she faces is her own history and

secrecy thing. there wasn't a white water when you got to the bottom of it. >> all right. >> it was a psychology. >> chris, stay with us, please. mike allen, thank you so much. >> thank you, mike. >> next, robert menendez joins us to break why i thinks the iran nuclear deal is a bad deal. up next, bob woodward joins the table. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." when you're not confident you have complete visibility into your business, it can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at&t's innovative solutions connect machines and people... to keep your internet of things in-sync, in real-time. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. the the lincoln summerre. invitation is on. get exceptional offers on the luxury small utility mkc

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♪ here we go. there is going to be fun. with us now, editor of "the washington post," bob woodward. we've been lying to to talk about iran for you for a couple days. we're going to try to talk iran again. but before we do that, before we do that, here's a picture of this guy nixon. you compared hillary's e-mail -- you said there were shades of nixon. and the nixon tapes. and it seems to only be getting worse. that press conference yesterday was mind boggling. >> yeah. it's not good. it's not being handled well. there's no question. but the point i was making about this in the comparison to the

nixon tapes is the volume. we're talking about 60,000 e-mails. i mean that is a lot of information on someone. and there's a process -- >> now the fbi is saying they might be able to go back and see what's on the others. that would be as if you could unburn the -- you know, it's like if nixon burned the tapes and could unburn them. i mean this is -- this is going to be a probe for reporters. >> and often that happens, we kind of miss the interesting headline. >> that's why we have you here, bob. because we were sitting around here talking about battle. and so now you're here. can you tell us. >> in her press conference yesterday, in fact all of it is interesting. but the most interesting to me she said i want the american people to know, to see what was on my e-mails as secretary of state. >> but she scrubbed it. >> no, that's the person ones.

he is said the ones as secretary of state i want people to see. well, that -- but that's astonishing. who's going to get -- is donald trump going to give over all of his e-mails if he uses this system? >> you are suggesting that she's voluntarily turning this over? >> i don't know how voluntary or involuntary. but she said, you heard her, say i want the american people to know and that's why we're cooperating and that's why we're turning over the information to the state department. >> do you believe that, bob? >> we'll see. if we get to see the 30,000 personal e-mails, those of as secretary of state, when she said to people, what people said to her, we're going to learn a great deal about her. >> you keep saying the personal

ones. do you assume the 30,000 e-mails are all personal? you make that sassumption to richard nixon if he said i burned half of the documents from '71 to '73, but don't worry sh i was just talking about pat's flower arrangements and the girls' weddings. >> that wouldn't work. but that is a category where she said it's personal and -- >> do you believe her? >> she has volunteered and through her own words said can you look. i want the american people to look at these 30,000. i'm in line. i want them to look. bob woodward, i have no idea what your point is. but it's fascinating. >> i do. i think he's taking her word at this point. but chris matthews, something else bob woodward said and a couple of people on the set have said it today. it's not being handled well. so eve been on kind of -- you've had different points of view in your career in terms of handling

situations. how could you hand this will well? >> well, the old rule is when in doubt, put it out. >> how? >> it's like fish. the longer you hold it, the more it smells. >> there is nothing to put out. she scrubbed the server. >> that is a forensic question beyond our grasp right now. are they going to be able resuscitate out of the server. i thought that was odd. so there is that question. what is left there to do? and also now we heard there is a duplicate held in colorado somewhere. that's another question. this thing is mercury. this is really murky. i think we have to go back to her i think almost -- well, let's put it this way, interesting sense of privacy. you go into public life to show

yourself off. like trump. you show it off. you're like christie, it's all on the table. it's out there. most politicians want you to know everything about them. they do like the fact that public exposure. she is the absolute opposite like nixon was. the exact opposite of that. she's in a public life that she doesn't want to be in personally. so she puts out this avatar this person that cares about children, this is this person. i want you to talk about this identity out here. it's not me. it's this public official who is a politician, wants you to think about the issues she cares b don't focus on me much it's a very strange things in politics. kasich put out this image of a working class, ethnic guy, worked his way up, went to ohio state. that is close to who he puts out. but her image is only a policy making being, not a person. i'm telling you, that's the thing that haunted her for 30 years. i don't want to talk about me. that makes her unique. >> bob, let's move to iran. we have another senator, a

democratic senator coming up, not a surprise, coming out against the iran deal. we had general hayden on earlier. actually expressing concerns. he thinks the deal is a horrible deal, expressing concern about congress sending the deal because of the signal it would send across the world. how did we get to where we are from all of this reporting? >> well, it is a large topic. i think if you can kind of step back for a moment, you can ask three questions about it. what were -- what was obama, john kerry, the administration trying to do? stop iran from getting the bomb. but also, opening the door to some sort of negotiation, we're going to deal with you. please deal with us. the second thing is did they achieve what they set out and there's immense controversy about that as there should be.

i think everyone would say, yes, it was worth trying. our system turns this over to the executive branch. obama did a credible job, quite frankly, on this. i think you can offer all kinds of criticism. but he's the one who is assigned it. we spend our lives in the book writing business. i'll write a book and people say oh, but you shouldn't have done this or you should have written it this way or you should -- a column. occasionally do you get second guessed? yeah. >> but sometimes that is within your family, i'll bet. >> yes. >> so it is a world of second guessing. and so we can sit on the sidelines and say you should have done. this you should have done that. and i spent a lot of time trying to understand obama. he does not like war.

and quite frankly, i think everyone in the country should salute him for not liking war and trying to avoid wars. as he said in his famous nobel prize acceptance speech, that you literally -- you get war, though sometimes it's necessary. it's a manifestation of human folly. i think he's right. and he's trying to avoid that. this is imperfect. but he's the designated negotiator. and i think there should be some leeway by all the people who have lidegitimate complaints an problems. it's not perfect. sometimes you have to say that's the guy in our system who has that power and we're going to have to defer to it. and this is not a political atmosphere of deferral. >> well, bob woodward -- >> we will defer to you.

>> yeah. i know you want to talk about donald trump. but we have to go to break. chris matthews, thank you so much. we'll be watching you on "hardball" tonight at 7:00 eastern. i love it. i watch it every night. >> this is not good. >> it's my staple. >> it is a great show. it is must-see tv every night at 7:00. >> you have fun, right? >> i like the pictures you show of the past as we go to break. >> i love it. >> we've been through this a few time. this isn't my first rodeo. >> i love the young picture you showed of you on the phone going to break. >> isn't that interesting? i had power then. >> you have more power now. you know you have power now. >> always hit the mark. >> what you are doing in here? >> you have more power now. >> we're going to take a look at how donald trump is winning over conservative voters without the usual conservative credentials. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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coming up, some of the top republican hopefuls for president are attending a major education summit today in new hampshire. we're going to talk to the host of the event, campbell brown. plus, jeb bush and donald trump will hold dueling town halls just 20 miles from each other in new hampshire as well. kacie hunt will join us for the political roundtable. we'll be right back. ♪

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i support high eer standard. so here's what i'm for. i'm for higher standards, state created, locally implemented where the federal government has no role in the creation of standards, content or curriculum. >> well that was jeb bush at the iowa state fair on friday discussing what could be a problematic issue for him among conservatives. bush will be among six republican presidential candidates taking part in today's education summit in new hampshire. joining us now if new hampshire is campbell brown. she's been working on this for weeks. i remember, campbell, when you were talking about this on our show a couple months ago. you're the founder and editor in chief of the 74, a nonprofit, nonpartisan news site reporting on america's education system which is hosting the event. campbell, take it away. what's on tap for today? >> good morning to everybody. well, we've got six of the gop

candidates coming. we're starting off this morning with governor bush. then carly fiorina and then we have governor kasich. we're going to take a break. in the afternoon, we have governor walker, do you this j governor christie. we're going in depth on education policy with all of them. 45 minutes, one-on-one. i think -- i mean i'll be honest in my, you know, 11 years covering politics this is the first time i've ever sat down with a politician on a single issue for this period of time. so i don't think that can you come in here with this crowd and do talking points and sound bites. i think it's going to be a really in depth policy discussion. they implemented this at state level. so i think it will be an interesting conversation. >> were these specific candidates only invited or did you invite them all and this

is -- >> this is a good group. >> it is a good group. we invited everybody. i think it's hard for some people to do something like this. i don't know if donald trum cop do something like. this because, again, you can't really keep the talking point line going for that long. and there's a lot of ground to cover here. obviously, we're going to talk about the expansion of school choice which they've been pushing at the state level. common core is a huge issue on the republican side. so that something we're going to cover, too. there's a big debate in washington. you talked about it. and whether we're going to put control back to the states. there are federal dollars we spent on education. so there's a lot of ground here. >> we look forward to hearing what happens. campbell brown, congratulations. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thanks, guys. >> joining us now, msnbc political correspondent kacie hunt and senior writer for

bloomberg politics. good to you have both onboard. kacie, you're headed to new hampshire today. >> yes. >> because you don't stop. >> it doesn't seem that way. >> there is a trump town hall meeting there. it is a dueling meeting. >> it's going to be fabulous, for sure. >> the best meeting ever. >> john kasich has a town hall at 1:00. it's the center of the political universe for next couple of days. i'm interested to see donald trump this is the first time he's done a town hall meeting. i haven't heard him take questions from voters he obviously takes questions from the press all the time from reporters. i'm interested to know how this is a classic format as you guys know. john mccain won new hampshire based on doing these over and over again. chris christie is trying to do the same thing. i think it's entirely unpredictable, as you know, covering donald trump. anything can happen. >> melinda, one thing that is really surprising is how donald trump is winning over conservatives when he's not taking conservative positions. and a lot of key areas, in fact,

he's winning conservatives, moderates, swings, he's winning them all. but how he is wooing conservatives that were supposed to be so rigidly ideological? >> i asked someone who is almost a single issuae anti-abortion voter, he is talking very highly of planned parenthood. he was pro-choice until a minute ago. how does this make -- how does that make you excited about it? she said, nobody's perfect. >> and he's winning. he's winning evangelicals in iowa. >> he's winning for a couple reasons. he's winning for a cou reasons. the emotion of it. they like he says whatever pops into his brain. he's speaking the truth. much of what he says is -- much of what he says is not accurate but he's speaking the truth.

he makes it look so easy, i'm going to come in here, you know how george bush used to say, it's hard. obama says we're all in this together. so many politicians say we have to work hard and sacrifice to make slow steady progress. no -- >> they are dumb, they are stupid. >> a few of the best negotiators and we've got this that's a big part how they have been treated by the establishment in the past. if you look over a period of time and this goes back to when you were in congress and now. back in the day, republicans in leadership did what they said they were going to do. there was a contract with america and you could check it off and walk through it. now look what's happened, they've been lied to about health care and a supreme court that will deliver on great promises and deficit and debt. big government republicanism. donald trump comes in, forget

all that, they are stupid, they've been handing you a bunch of stuff. they like the real deal. >> it's not the real deal. are we going to sit here -- >> sam, it's entertainment to you. >> are we going to say mexico is pay for a wall? >> you're such a literalist. >> i am, does anyone believe this is going to -- >> if you look at his plan, it makes -- >> mexico will pay -- >> that's not the point. it's the point that you're actually going to force the issue. that's the problem. who else has a plan out right now? >> who else has a brand that voters understand and instinctively know. this phase of the campaign is usually about somebody like john kasich introducing himself to the country. he doesn't have to introduce himself. if we get to the advertising phase of this campaign and donald trump is still at the top

and jeb bush's super pac has to spend millions on ads, do iowa voters realize he's been pro-choice for a lot of his career. >> they know it. >> but they might end up -- if they see it over and over again. >> iowa voters supported mike huckabee and rick santorum are now supporting donald trump. >> i'm jealous that you're going to the town hall. that's all i have to say. >> classiest. >> it will be classy. >> thank you so much. appreciate you being here. we'll be right back. that is funny. that's what pushes us to deliver smarter simpler faster sleeker earlier fresher harder farther quicker and yeah, even on sundays. what's next? we'll show you.

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you look [ bleep ]. ♪ >> up next, marco rubio had a moment on trail that could have been right out of the movie "the campaign". >> it wasn't that bad. >> it wasn't that bad? >> it could have been. >> the kid should have caught it, okay? >> wow, okay. plus, the press grills hillary clinton over her private e-mail server as polls show clinton plummeting. former senate foreign relations committee chairman robert menendez will join us after making his forceful case on why

senators should oppose the iran nuclear deal. we'll be right back.

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>> let's put the women and children to bed and go looking for [ bleep ] dinner, all right? >> protected well. lost one to the end zone -- ♪ >> oh -- >> you know, it's a lot easier to give them a ride in a helicopter. you don't hit them in the face with a football. >> it happens. with us on set in washington -- >> it doesn't have to though. >> it shouldn't actually. >> that kid has to get better hands. come on. >> it was a little high. >> it was catchable. it was a catchable ball. >> mistakes were made. senior political editor and white house correspondent for "the huffington post" sam stein, you're in big trouble.

pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. a lot to talk about. >> but the political world is talking about one story this morning. other than donald trump, of course. and my goodness, that was an awkward press conference and i just -- when you were watching it, you -- i was listening to the words and it was oh, my god you're looking at her face, said she's not keeping up with this. >> and then shook my head and walked away. it was so self-inflicted and it's frustrating. so far more than 300 e-mails from hillary clinton's private server have been flagged for further review. but clinton in a contentious

news conference played down the significance of the questions saying the same issues would have come up even if she used a government server. >> in retrospect what was supposed to be convenient has turned out to be anything but convenient. if i had had a separate government account so i had a totally designated government account, and a totally designated personal account and started running for president and i said, i want the american people to see anything that was part of my time in the state department because i think it's educational and i want the state department to release all of my e-mails, which they already had by the way in the government computer system. we would be going through the same process. it has nothing to do with me and nothing to do with the fact that my account was personal. it's the process by which the

government and sometimes in disagreement between various agencies of the government made decisions about what can and cannot be disclosed. >> bob bood ward was suggesting there were shades here and how you're reacting and eugene robinson at the very least, you staun walled and should tell the american people, i'm sorry, i was wrong. instead you're talking about sn snapchat and blaming republican attacks. isn't leadership about taking responsibility. >> look, i take responsibility, no matter what anybody tries to say, the facts are stubborn. what i did was legally permitted, number one, first and foremost. number two, i turned over out of an abundance of an attempt to be helpful, over anything that i thought was even vaguely related. >> two inspectors general say there are hundreds they believe -- >> but ed, you're not listening

to me. if it were -- ed, if were -- >> independent inspectors. >> if it were a government account, they would be saying the same thing. the fact -- >> either way -- >> well, look. >> classified information got out. >> this is -- first of all, that is not in any way agreed upon. state department disagrees, that happens all the time in the efforts to say what can go out and what can't go out. that's a part of the ordinary process. everybody is acting like this is the first time it's ever happened. it happens all the time. what you're seeing now is a agreement between agencies saying, you know what, they should have and the others say no they shouldn't. that is nothing to do with me, if it had been a government account and i said release it, we would be having the same arguments. >> did you try to wipe the whole server? >> i don't -- i have no idea, that's why we turned it over. >> you were in charge of it. did you wipe the server?

>> like a cloth or something? >> i don't know. you know how it works digitally. >> i don't know how it works digit tally at all. >> you did not try? >> ed, i know you want to make a point and i can just repeat what i have said -- >> it's a simple question. in order to be as cooperative as possible, we have turned over the server. they can do whatever they want to with the server to figure out what's there or not there. that's for the people investigating it to try to figure out. but we turned over everything that was work related, every single thing. personal stuff, we did not. i had knno obligation to do so d did not. >> is this an indication that this issue isn't going to go away the remainder of your campaign. >> nobody talked to me about it other than you guys. >> i don't know where to begin. there was so many things that she said that caused people around this table to shake their head. it was so clearly false. and this is the thing she keeps

doing with people that are even on her side, playing them for fools. ron fortier, i was trying to count the number of things that hillary clinton said yesterday that we all know are objectively false based on previous statements. not opinion but just outright false. how many did you count? >> yesterday i counted six. what she's doing is following a script jennifer palm merry laid out that you could easily pars and see example of example of deflections or flat-out untruths. if you're saying something you know is untrue, that's a lie. by this time she's got to know, for example, that it was against federal policy to have a server off the books. she must know by now it doesn't matter whether or not these documents were mark classified

or not. there's been people prosecuted for mishandling classified documents that were not marked classified. she's saying things she must know -- >> voluntary turning over servers with the fbi contacted her lawyer and said keep those, we're going to need them. you can go down the list. >> it's a long list and we keep bri writing over and over again, these are self-inflicted wounds and i'm frankly getting tired of the story and hearing myself talk. but i know here's what's going to happen. the fbi is looking into this. the same person who prosecuted petraeus is looking into this. coincidentally the same person who represented petraeus is now representing hillary clinton. and she's paying a big price politically and might pay a big price criminally. gene robinson, your name came up. she obviously did not write your

article. it was more stonewalling and statements that are openly false. >> you know, we've already used the words self-inflicted. you know, what -- hillary clinton should not have to be answering questions like this at this point in the campaign. the reason she did is summed up in the phrase private e-mail server. the initial decision -- >> by the way a private e-mail server that we found out yesterday from the daily mail was keptd in a bathroom closet in a denver, colorado condo. that's where america's national security secrets were being kept. >> not a server she turned over, that we only found out because of the congressional investigation. >> that's true. but, again, if you decide that i'm special enough that i can do this, right. >> against federal regulation. >> then you're open to questions about laws that are on the books about where classified

information can reside. if you are secretary of state, and you are doing your job, sensitive information, technically classified, top secret, the whole range is going to come to your attention. >> it has to. you're secretary of state. >> it's inevitable that your e-mail server if you have it and i thought -- apparently it's in denver. >> in a bathroom condo. >> it's inevitable that information that shouldn't is going to transit that machine at the very least. and probably will reside in that machine. and you put that fact against statutes and you potentially have a problem. >> not potentially. >> there's a huge problem. i mean, the fact that again this small business that nobody ever heard of kept their servers in a clos it in a bathroom in denver colorado, in a condo is breath

taking. for people at home that are wondering, i don't think anybody thinks this is partisan anymore because of the fbi. i can tell you i get flooded with e-mails and if you want to know where a collection of gasps came up during hillary clinton's e-mail conference -- the conference, the white house. white house people working in the white house cannot believe she keeps saying that this was okay with the white house, that this was okay according to the law. they cannot believe inside the obama white house that she continues to act this way. >> well, and then there's questions for the state department. before it gets to you, michael and what republicans can do with this, people like sam stein have questions to ask and i think it becomes at this point not a partisan attack. i can't think of a way to move forward if i had an opportunity to interview hillary clinton

without saying i don't have an answer to this question. it doesn't make sense. and we're worried that you haven't told the truth. >> and i mean, we could all have anticipated this minute five and a half months ago when the story first broke. at that juncture -- >> a lot of people didn't. >> at that juncture they could have made the calculation that this would be the inevitable end game of the story and they could have gone ahead of it more than they have by voluntarily turning over the server and sitting down and having her answer questions and for instance and so forth. >> it was obviously the right thing to do and smart thing to do. why do you not think she did that? >> i think there's a mix of things. they do legitimately believe that while she was skirting the letter of the law here, that she wasn't doing anything fundamentally different than

other secretaries of state and she like serve ants is entitled to having private e-mails. they do believe she has the entitlement to have her private e-mail account. there was a sense that she was doing things slightly differently -- >> they knew from the very beginning and we had a couple of people like joe con snon would come on, there's a 2009 regulation that says you are not allowed to do this. you must have your e-mails saved where you work and the next day they would pretend that didn't happen and james carville would say, look over there and they would say -- nothing here, just look over there. they knew from the very beginning that the obama -- by the way, ask the obama administration on or off the record whether there was a regulation in place and they will tell you they put it in place. >> they knew better.

this brings up a very important point, which is, you know, we will find out eventually how bad the situation is for her as we come to know how many e-mails should not have been on the server, maybe what the e-mails said. i doubt those will get public. there is a broader point that you're getting at here, which is also troubling, she surrounds herself with people who are afraid to tell her no. you can't do that. >> by the way, one of the most disturbing parts of the press conference when she walked away and said you all are the only ones telling me about this. i thought that is the first true thing she has said because she's surrounded by people afraid to tell her the truth. >> people are interested in this. a couple of things, new national polling among democratic voters is out, hillary clinton is 47% down from 56 in july. bernie sanders is at 29% up from 19% in july. and just to your point here and i want to get to michael steele. clinton's campaign previously

acknowledged there was an attempt to wipe the server before it was turned over last week to the fbi, which is kind of disturbing. >> and something she would not say yesterday when asked repeatedly. >> sources tell nbc news that despite claims the server was purged, they believe they can retrieve some of it. >> by the way is irrelevant. >> she says this happens all the time. i'm going to read this and michael steele, it's all yours. all right? i really can't help them. the daily mail reports that the company that operated clinton's server kept its servers in the bathroom in bathroom closets, former employees call flat river networks a mom and pop shop and tell the website they worked out of a lost apartment in denver. some servers were stored in a small bathroom closet on site. secretary of state. >> in the age of putin and north korean hackers and the age of chinese hackers -- >> michael steele.

>> that's where america's secrets were being kept. >> a little set up over here. hook up your -- all your e-mails -- >> bathroom fort ress, have you seen modern architect tour. >> it's safe, in a condo. >> let me see donald trump's bathroom. >> on his plane. >> huge. >> this is what it means between now and next -- this time next year. you're going to have a federal investigation that is going to be ongoing and there's going to be -- i think the administration will -- you'll see a drip, drip, drip of information from that. then you're going to have trey gowdy and benghazi investigation this fall in which the chairman says i only need to see her once but we're going to make it a marathon. now -- >> and they should stay out of the way and ask the question and -- >> let the story speak for

itself. >> keep they are head down and ask for the facts. >> chuabsolutely. >> if you want to make a speech, go to the rotary club and make a speech. it's not going to be at this hearing. >> it's not just trey gowdy, there's like five -- >> that's why -- here's the thing, keep in mind, right after benghazi, the problem with the benghazi story, those republicans so anxious to jump on hillary clinton made it a political issue as opposed to a substantive story about foreign policy and process within the administration. they cannot afford given how much hillary has done damage to herself to take her off the hook by demagoguing on the issue. >> make her look like a victim. >> joe is right, ask the smart question and just reel her in. that's the only way -- anything else, she'll slip by. >> a couple of guys that can add

perspective with ron and gene -- >> you're too young. >> it's entertainment to you. >> you were reading maxim in your fortress bathroom. >> with the server. >> it's going there. >> so i talked to a guy yesterday who everybody knows in the national press. he said i've been covering plikds for 30 years. and seen anything. he said, since robert bourque, every dust-up or scandal has been partisan. you've had the conservative kmen ators defending or attacking and liberal commentators depending on -- this is the first dust-up, first controversy, first scandal where i've seen among elite leaders in the media and politics disgusted across the board. they say other than the clinton campaign, he said get them off camera and everybody is shaking

their head. everybody, regardless of their ideology saying this is really serious. and it's really, really bad. >> i haven't seen a time since impeachment when -- democrats defended the president that he should not be impeached and finish the term but democrats were disgusted by the behavior in '98. i'm talking to people inside hillary clinton world, inside bill clinton world and all of the circles around the clintons who are upset by this. there's two big questions they are having. one sam touched on and we rolled over it to talk about his bathroom, the idea of having yes people around her. what kind of president would she be if she has people around her who aren't waling to say, you're saying about the server is wrong. you can't do that. or don't have the guts to tell her, don't do this with the server. what kind of president is she going to be if she's that insulated from the truth. and secondly, the credibility.

democrats can see she's not telling the truth. democrats can see that the campaign is lying to them -- >> that's what's remarkable. everybody knows, gene and that's the thing, she's not telling the truth, including people on her campaign and yet she keeps doing it. it is a painful, painful thing to watch. >> well, i think the calculation such as it is, must be tough it out, tough it out, people will eventually lose interest and it will eventually go away. you know, it can't at this point because there are investigations going on and the fbi has the server and it's going to get information off that server. we're going to hear, for example, are there any backups of any of this information anywhere and we're going to kind of swarm to that. >> still ahead on "morning joe." robert menendez is standing by. does he think any fellow democrats will join him and senator schumer to oppose the

nuclear deal with iran? up next, donald trump is already towering over the republican field for president. we'll look at new polls that show he's closing in on hillary clinton as well. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> so nice today. good morning, before i get to tropical storm danny, do you see what happened at wrigley field. the thunderstorms that were severe through much of illinois rolled right through chicago and take a look at this view from the upper deck. look at those winds howling there. the game was delayed and they finished the ball game. didn't get rained out. hearty folks in chicago. let's talk about tropical storm danny. it's going to be with us for at least the next ten or maybe as much as 14 days. right now it's barely getting on the screen here. here's the latest forecast path from the hurricane center. they have it heading generally towards the west and they will bring it towards the lesser an till lees as we go through the sunday into monday time period. affecting possibly the islands

there during the day on monday. of course the next in line for that is the virgin islands and puerto rico and they do expect it to be a hurricane. that has our attention. this is the first big storm threat we had this weekend. the squigley lines take it near puerto rico and dominican republic monday, tuesday and wednesday of next week. as far as the east coast goes, will the trough off the east coast late next week into the middle of next week catch it and through it out to sea or will the storm stall near the bahamas and wait and see where it goes from there. there's a lot of questions with this. until it's still a threat for the east coast, we're going to continue to watch it for the next week at least. arkansas to kentucky, a lot of soaking rain for you and it's still humid in the east. from areas from new york city southwards, down the east coast. there's a chance for a stray shower or storm everywhere this afternoon. leaving you with a shot of the big apple. we're done with the 90 degree heat but the humidity refuses to go away.

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♪ >> we've got a new cnn/orc poll out moments ago showing a tightening race on the democratic side. hillary clinton now below 50% against vermont senator bernie sanders and 29% among likely primary voters. clinton is down nine points and sander has risen ten points, a 20-point swing in the last month. among registered voters clinton's favorable rating is 43% and unfavorables at 55%, a 6 point increase from last month. in the national head to head mash-ups, donald trump is closing the gap, down six

points. >> look at that number. here we were a couple of months ago and go to donald trump's new friend, i guess we call hem fot, gene robinson. it wasn't too long ago that donald trump was down 20 to 25, 30 points. if you see him down by six points, you get the feeling that's not just republicans but now independents starting to get on board. >> look -- >> six points. >> he's been leading the republican race long enough that people are getting used to him, getting used to him and when you're leading the republican field, people think of you as a real candidate as opposed to reality show candidate and start taking ear seriously -- >> michael steele, the argument was, if you look at these numbers, it was, well, donald trump can't win. he's down 20, 30 points. he matches up the most

unfavorably against everybody else. now he's matching up better against hillary than jeb. and the same with scott walker. >> yeah, it's amazing. and all of this is happening just as folks are beginning to tune in. this time of year, everyone is coming back in, kids are getting ready for school and folks are settling back in. you have the story on e-mails breaking and trump not just maintain but rising in the polls. you think about everything before the debate, post debate, he's only lost one point and then started to gain again? >> look at the specifics here. >> there's more. taking a closer look at just republican voters donald trump has climbed six points since july, nearly doubling jeb bush and almost tripling everyone else in the republican field. but that's not the only place trump leads. he and bush hold the top two spots among republicans on all of the issues polled and trump towers over bush on the economy. 45% to 8%.

on immigration, 44 to 12. on who would best handle sis is, 32 to 16. even on social issues where bush led in june trump has pulled ahead -- >> i want -- go back to the last chart for a second and that top number, the economy. 45 to 8, trump over bush. >> that's entertainment sam stein. >> it is. >> i'm entertained with how you're going to wiggle out of that. a majority of republican voters would have had a better chance in the general election with someone other than trump. among all registered voters, favorable stands at 38%, but his favorable number is better in this poll than jeb bush's. >> where to begin? >> well the huffington post is doubling down on its decision to label its coverage of donald

trump's presidential campaign as entertainment despite the fact that donald trump is within six points of hillary clinton -- >> no doubling down. >> and dominating jeb bush, dominating the republican field. >> sam, go home and tell them to change it. >> can i defend our website? >> no. you may not. please don't. >> the website -- >> i'm curious. >> so let's read the statement first then we'll hear sam. the after a solid month of dominating polls, we're still not taking the bait. we've seen our central argument proven right that trump is nothing more than a side show and legitimate -- not a legitimate presidential contender with serious policy ideas for moving the country forward. after that statement was made -- they then ran to hillary clinton's press conference and fed her the answers to the questions from ed henry. >> i've got a problem with this. this reminds me of the fox debate. like a news organization trying

to like control something. and move it along in the direction that they believe is righteous. i'm sorry, think of that debate, doesn't it seem crazy. >> you know, with all due respect to arianna, i think it's crazy. we can't dictate what is and can't dictate who republican voters say they want to have as president. we have to cover that person. i mean, we just have to. >> yesterday it was tweeted if huffington post is going to treat donald trump like entertainment, maybe they should treat hillary clinton like -- and that was me. >> you can't call somebody with those poll numbers a side show anymore. >> you've got to step back and cover the story on both sides. >> sam stein, do you care to defend your institution? >> are we going to shut up and

let him talk? >> let's step back for a second and let's look at this as a meta commentary, we're living in a world that is vastly different than it was a while ago. where party bosses don't pick a presidential candidate but we have emergence of politics and entertainment. it's a fact. we have emergence of politics and entertainment and donald trump is better at it than anyone we've ever had before. i think he himself has gone out and said look what i'm doing for fox news debates. the numbers are out of control. more viewers than ever. he sees himself as an entertainer who is in politics. and we are just -- >> would you have put ronald reagan -- >> he had been a governor for two terms in california. this man has a reality tv show. >> this is someone -- us acknowledging that we live in a political system in which entertainment is very good in the political context.

>> i lock arianna and this is arianna and donald trump fighting each other and it needs to change. donald trump is not a side show, he's in first place. >> i think the issues he's raising or serious substantive political issues, for instance, birth right citizenship. that's not an entertainment matter. we're covering debates on policies as politics. but trump himself is an entertainer in politics. >> coming up -- >> the president and secretary kerry repeatedly said that the choice is between this agreement or war. i reject that proposition. we should make it absolutely clear that we want a deal but we want the right deal. democratic senator robert menendez on why he is opposing the iran nuclear agreement and the type of deal he would support. he's next on "morning joe."

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first vote, the one that's coming up, i think the no vote there is pretty easy. what we don't want is to suggest there's political consensus in this country that we're all in favor of this deal. the first vote no, the president vetoes it. now you've got a really serious vote. this is the one that counts. i actually think there are plans b, c and d. i think that there's not just binary choice between this or war but i have no confidence that this government would aggressively pursue plans b, c or d simply because of policy

choices. >> so that was former cia and nsa director general michael hayden earlier on morning joe. joining us now, member of the senate foreign relations committee, bob menendez of new jersey, another no vote on the iran deal. good to have you on this morning. >> you've voted with president obama 98% of the time over the past two years. why depart from him on a bill or agreement that is so important to the administration? >> well, joe, i voted with the president as you said according to congressional quarterly, 98% of the time and those have been on principled agreement. but where i have principled disagreement, i'm going to disagree. on this question, this is more than about supporting or opposing the president. this is one of the most significant national security nuclear nonproliferation agreements we've had in some time. and i just feel that the agreement falls far short from

what our stated goals were -- >> what is your reaction -- >> preserving iran's nuclear infrastructure not diminishing it and its pathway towards a nuclear weapon is more guaranteed as a result of it at a time of their choosing. >> what's your reaction to the president saying this is an easy choice and even suggesting that those who oppose the deal are actually making common cause with the iranian hard liners chanting death to america. >> that's unfortunate rhetoric to be very honest with you. as someone who has supported the president 98% of the time and someone who helped him when i was chairman of the foreign relations committee get to the benghazi tragedy, get him an authorization for the use of military force to stop syria's use of chemical weapons against its people, to promote his ambassadors and so much more, i think it's wrong to simply say that proposition, number one, to say that those who have serious

questions or oppose the deal like those who voted for the war in iraq, i did not vote for the wart in iraq. it was an unpopular vote but the right one. i think that we can have considered judgment and disagreement. i don't see this as a no brainer. i see this as a tough call in terms of what we will be left ahead. because the question is not whether or not this deal -- if performed would have some value. it would. the problem is if the deal is not performed, which is as pierational, which position does that put us in then? i think it puts us in a weaker position. >> gene? >> how do you react to the argument we heard from general hayden this morning, that if you want to vote against the agreement on first vote and in fact he opposes the agreement, but when you get to the second vote of actually voting to override the president's veto, you can have a plan b or plan c,

but this administration is not interested in a plan b or plan c. it's not interested in applying sorts of pressures you would have to pli to get everybody back to the table to restart negotiations and end up worse off than we are now. how do you respond to that? >> well, first of all, i note that there have been over 200 times in history where congress has rejected or saw significant modifications of treaties and international agreements, including 80 bilateral ones. this is not precedent setting, number one. number two, i would say of course i would expect to hear from the administration and our allies. we're not interested in a plan b. but plan bs are always part of an option you have to consider if the congress acting in its separate role and co-equal branch of government makes a judgment that this agreement is not -- doesn't reach the national security standards of the united states. and you can vote against the

agreement but also seek to have the administration continue to engage. i would have them go back to the interim agreement and i think there's just a few critical issues that need to be dealt with to make it an agreement that, for example, i could support. >> so, senator, having read the deal and fully understanding it and i'm assuming that's the case with you, i want to get your reaction to this point from former national security adviser brzezinski made on the show yesterday. >> this agreement is a process and i want to repeat that. it's a process. in other words, there are series of reciprocal actions over a longer period of time in which we move forward, there's res prosty and there's a agreement, look at it, investigation, perhaps some additional side negotiations. it's a process designed to change an incredibly complex

relationship. there is the real possibility that if it succeeds iran really joins the international community and becomes a force for good. >> senator, this is sam stein, i think what they are getting at here, this is not just a u.s./iran agreement. this is a p5+1 iran agreement. when you say bring it back to the joint plan of action and restart the negotiations, that's premised on the idea that france, england and china and russia will all come back to the negotiating table with us. i've seen no indication that that's actually going to take place. am i missing something? how do you get them back to the negotiating table to make the deal better? >> first of all, i have a deep respect for mr. brzezinski, called him as a witness many times and served with him on a panel, an exceptional contribution to our country and exceptional asset. what he said, i understand is as pierational but hope is not a

national security initiative. i think you have to look at the agreement, not as if it's all going to work but what happens if it doesn't. as it relates to your question, let me simply say, our allies got into this with us because they are concerned about iran having a nuclear weapon and yesterday in my speech i pointed out to the missile technology that the u.n. security council panel of experts says iran already possesses. that hurts europe far more than the united states right now. they are concerned about that. they know they need us in order to make sure that doesn't happen. they care more about dealing with a $17 trillion economy than a $415 billion economy, which is iran's. and we know that as we are negotiating t trans atlantic partnership agreement. i think it will take diplomacy. but i heard this in the past when i was pushing sanctions that the administration opposed, you'll break the international comedy and we'll lose our allies

and iran will walk away. that wasn't the case. >> didn't happen. we greatly appreciate it and really quickly michael steele. latest polling on the iran deal, 61% do not believe the iranians will abide by the agreement at all. only 6% say they will. a lot. >> that's the challenge of the administration, american people are not backing this because they don't trust the partner at the table. >> that's the case for the deal. the fact that they'll cheat is a case for the deal. it can be -- >> i don't know too many people who want to go into a deal with a cheater -- >> you want to expect someone who's going to cheat. >> apple music is celebrating having 11 million users but there's another number that the company likely won't be bragging about. that story is next in business before the bell. coming fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair?

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>> we just got word that target had a good quarter and raised its outlook for the second time. target has been in a turnaround. got a new ceo about a year ago and it is doing well. digital sales grew 30%. target also called out style baby kids and wellness categories as growth drivers during the quarter and particularly impressive because it comes just a day after big box rival walmart, the number one retailer in this country, reported a very disappointing quarter and lowered its outlook for the year. mixed fortunes for retailers, this is a period where consumer spending is uneven, going towards home prokds products less towards apparel. speaking of winners and losers, wanted to mention the new survey from music watch which surveyed 5,000 consumers and says that the new apple music product, 11 million people may be streaming it and signed up for it according to apple. only 48% of those who have tried

it failed, weren't blown away by the service. everyone is trying to figure out if apple music will be a game killer, a spotify killer. 28% of spotify paying customers were attracted to new apple music. only 6% of pandora users. apple is disputing this survey and saying 79% of those using apple music service are keeping it. here's my choice for music, streaming music going into the break. >> there you go. >> thanks for playing it. >> exactly. it is going to be hard for apple to crack the spotify crowd. if you're used to streaming that way, apple seems awfully clunky. >> and i've got sonos that can play throughout the house.

half of the songs won't play because they are so -- >> that doesn't work. >> really? >> in this one area, seems to be last generations. >> we're back in just a moment. no student's ever done the full hand raise in ap calc. but your stellar notebook gives you the gumption to reach for the sky. that's that new gear feeling. this week, these office depot brand notebooks just one cent. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great.

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morning joe continues to be the place for presidential candidates, coming up on friday, jim webb joins the table and new jersey governor chris christie will be our guest. up next, what if anything did we learn today?

i'm meteorologist bill karins, it's going to be a rough wednesday afternoon and location with the possibility of thunderstorms, including atlanta, new orleans, chicago and d.c. that's a lot of major airports that could have delays too. middle of the country looks great and where we've been struggling with the horrible wildfires as of late could see record heat in seattle and down to portland, oregon. have a great day. oh, look! yoplait original now has 25% less sugar. time to taste it. how is it? it tastes good! congratulations yoplait! you did it!

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>> it's a crazy ride. >> i learned apple is not going to be a big player in the streaming music business. >> i learned that the headline from the hillary clinton press conference that we get 30,000 e-mails to rummage through. >> how exciting. >> what did you learn? >> the most fantastic, most amazing town hall will be happening today in new hampshire. >> gold plated as well. stick around. "the rundown" starts now. >> good morning to you. developing right now in new hampshire, day two of testimony in the st. paul school rape case, the accuser now 16 years old is expected on the stand again today after an emotional afternoon in court yesterday facing the alleged rapist, owen lee bree, the accusers family spoke out in a brief statement outside the court. >> the family and i stand behind my niece in speaking out as so w