we'll never win if we're appealing to people's anger each and every day. >> right down the road we have jeb. very small crowd. >> we're a conservative party, right? >> very small crowd. >> mr. trump doesn't have a

proven conservative record. >> you know what's happening to jeb's crowd a, as you know, right down the street. >> he was a democrat longer in the last decade than he was a republican. >> they're sleeping! they're sleeping now! >> he's giving more money to democrats than he's given to republicans. >> bush had, i heard, 140, 150 people. we have 2,579 people. >> when people look at his record, it is not a conservative record. >> one of the great honors is that everybody that attacks me seems to go down. >> oh, my god. >> okay. so there i am with jack last night watching this. the latest season blockbuster. and you call me up. and you say, you have to turn on the tv. trump's on. i said what channel you? say every channel. >> every channel. >> and i turned it on. i will say this, i have never seen anything in politics like it in my life. >> ever. >> i was just saying, is this

just me? >> no. >> and then i heard people analyze it saying the same thing. it is -- it was -- i have a very distractible 17-year-old who sat and watched that with me. we just watched it. we just watched it. and then that parallel with bush -- >> john heilemann, you were talking about on cnn a republican strategist who is significant in the party. >> we can say his name, can't we? >> yes. >> alex castellanos. he's been critical of donald trump. i think after the republican debate, i like alex a lot. i respect his views. that's why it's interesting. he was very critical of trump at the debate. he said he is going to lose altitude. this time, he said last night he was like the most gifted

political communicator he's seen since ronald reagan. that was two weeks ago from cleveland to now. that tells you how captivating he was. >> that's what it was last night. that's why when i heard alex say that, i was like okay. that wasn't just me. >> oh, no. >> it was -- it was unbelievable. and now you've got -- it's like the beatles are coming to town. my brother called me up last week and said -- and not just my brother. i'm starting to get calls. he's going to mobile, alabama. >> they had to change the venue already. >> and everybody i've known throughout the south are calling me going do you know anybody that -- i want to get in. i want to get in. >> i don't know. >> i haven't seen this happen a lot. and so now you're hearing the republican establishment going from saying he sucks, he's a joke. he's a clown. he's getsiting out of the race

now he's dangerous. >> yes, he is dangerous. >> we have john meachum with us, he's the author of the forthcoming book "destiny and power," the odyssey of george herbert walker bush which is out in november. >> although that title can be applied to the rise of donald trump. >> i know. >> that's his next book. but we're going to talk to john in a bit after we show the clips. and try to put this in historical perspective. >> give me that piece of paper on your computer. we've got trump, romney choked. trump, i'm a whiner. trump, not a politician. trump, beautiful wall. trump, "art of the deal." we don't have trump, john kerry is a baby. we'll save that for later. >> what is a 73-year-old doing riding around on a bike? i promise i'm president of the united states, i won't be riding

around on a bike during negotiations. >> he held a town hall where he took questions from the audience for the first time. but first, he met with reporters in a press conference where he talked about issues, his rival as enwhat is and what he would do the first day in office. >> the first thing is building a wall which mexico will pay for. okay? we're going to build it. i know how to do it. it's going to be a real wall, not a toy wall like we have right now. >> there's a very big question as to the anchor babies. they've been talking about it for years. there's a very big question as to whether or not the 14th amendment actually covers this. we're going to find out whether or not it does. changing the 14th amendment would take years and years, it's a long drawn out process. here's what's happening. a woman is going to have a baby. they wait on the border. just before the baby they come over to the border. they have the baby in the united states. we now take care of that baby,

social security, medicare, education. give me a break. mitt romney let us down. he should have won that election. he failed. he choked. he is no different than a golfer that misses a putt on the 18th hole. no different than a man who strikes out a baseball player. something happened to him. that's not going happen to me. somebody wrote an article that i was a whiner, that i complained. i said he's right. i do complain. because our country is in trouble. i said i complain and complain and i whine and i whine until win. and then i win. the only thing constant is trump. i mean all of them change. they're going up and down like yo-yos. i've been up there for a long time. you know, i read a lot of the phoney reports, a couple reports today in the paper say oh, well, you know, when donald trump gets

tired of doing this he's doing great and he's leading all the polls. but at some point -- i'm not going anywhere, folks. i'm not doing this for my health. i'm doing this to make america great again. >> i have a golden crust motto across my house, the only thing constant is trump. you have all his vanity, right? and then the only thing constant is trump. >> he had more than 1200 people, not including hundreds more who could not get in. >> i heard that jeb bush, that marco rubio, that governor walker -- who? that's what they're saying, who? the three of them are going to spend a lot of money on negative ads about me. so i think, you know, you can listen, listen. you're fired. but i just heard it. they said they're going to

spend -- i love these rowdy crowds. isn't it great? there's spirit. there's spirit. [ applause ] you know what? i'll tell why you. you know what is happening to jeb's crowd as you know right down the street? they're sleeping! they're sleeping now! i was at jury duty the other day. i enjoyed it. it was a great experience. i had to fill out a form. they said profession. it was a line. it said what profession? what's your profession? and i said i refuse to say i'm a politician. i can't say it. so if you people don't mind, you know what i did? i put real estate. i couldn't say -- i just couldn't say these politicians -- i can't take them. you know how tall the wall? it's like. this and it's not a wall. it's a little fence.

i'm talking about a wall. see that ceiling up there? higher. you do a beautiful nice precast plafr plank with beautiful everything. perfect. i want it to be so beautiful. because maybe they'll call it the trump wall. maybe. i have to make sure it's beautiful, right? i'll be very proud of that wall. if they call it the trump wall, it has to be beautiful. you know, i did write "the art of the deal." did anybody ever hear "the art of the deal." good. bring it up. come on. give me that book. nice guy. should i sign it? give me that book. see? great. [ applause ] president obama, secretary kerry, i highly think you should read this book quickly. quickly. quickly.

>> all right. so -- wow. so what do you think? >> i'm going to go to the correspondent. >> we have to digest a little bit of this first. >> i can't. it's too much. >> yeah, it is a little -- >> i got nothing. >> digest. >> look, he's a celebrity. will he be able to get the big crowds in mobile. people are going to show up because it's donald trump. you turned on the tv. it was a spectacle. >> i called my parents. i said you might want to -- it's just turn on the television. and they said we're already watching. >> right. exactly. i mean he's entertaining. it's august 2015. it's a year and a half. >> it's early, right? >> people are tuning in because it's a spectacle. >> you think people clapping and holding the book were there to be entertained? >> i don't think they were.

>> because those are voters. >> those are actual voters. do i think they'll all vote for trum snp trump? i don't know. voters are interested in hearing what all candidates are saying. trump is energetic and saying the types of things that republican primary voters want to hear. >> john heilemann, you've been covering a couple of cycles for your books. so you've been there. you were there in 2007 when giuliani was at 31%. you were there when michelle bachmann won the iowa straw poll. and we all as a point of reference go back and say well that's how it was in august 2007. that's how it was in august 2007. and that's what i was saying for a little bit. but this is entirely different. this is new brand of politics. i think that the thing that struck me last night as he got 30 minutes into it and was still going was okay, i can actually

start seeing him connecting some of the dots and he actually can do this on policy and make it through. i think that's the first time i saw it last night. yes, there are a lot of people watching our show that are deeply offended by the mere mention of his name. we had guests on that say he wouldn't be relevant. >> but this isn't about them. >> the page has turned. and jeb bush is yesterday and scott walker is yesterday. people are saying the same thing of john kennedy in 1960. he was too young. i'm not comparing donald trump to j.f.k. but harry truman was deeply offended that somebody is light weight as jfk would be there. people said the same thing about ronald reagan, a two bit b-list actor. but he took politics in another direction. it's happening before our eyes now. >> there are two things that i

think mika made -- two things about this performance that struck me. one chf i think isg important. she said he's talking without notes. the thing when we did that focus group with the trump supporters in new hampshire, it came through there. i think it come through watching this. you know, the thing of he says what's on his mind, he's not scripted, he's not poll tested, he's not focus grouped, he's just saying what he thinks, people love that. people like that. they like that he is speaking his mind. that's just -- seems to be really interesting. >> by the way, let's stay on that point for one second. i always talked about my dad. >> yeah. >> he talks like people like my dad and other republican voters who are frustrate wod be talking when they were sitting in their chair at home. that is fascinating about trump. he's a billionaire. but he sounds like a middle class dad like barking at walter

cronki cronkite. >> archie bunker quality. and even the verbal words enhance. that the second thing is he's having fun. i spent a bunch of time with jeb bush in iowa. he is just so joyous. >> bush wanted joy. >> he seems so joyless. jeb bush seems like he is slogging through the campaign. trump is the happy warrior. can you not underestimate -- >> it's magnetic. >> you can't underestimate the importance of that and how much voters pick up on a candidate who sen joig himself. >> we have kacie hunt standing by. we want to get john meachum in a bit. it's interesting. not only is he able to speak off the cuff and for extended -- but it's beginning to build into something that i think people underestimated. john meachum and also the importance of the joy.

>> and also how the establishment is caught asleep at the wheel. i guarantee you this morning people are looking at this and their noses are going up in the air. i still think some people don't get it. >> you know, i remember -- it's been 25 years but having some really smart politically engaged friends who very early on in the ross perot phenomenon in '92 were found perot to be the same kind of mesmerizing performance. eg, j "dallas" in that case. in the sense that here's somebody who is talking straight, who doesn't feel captive because of their own personal wealth and story, i mean all those populous things. and so i think the analogy with all the due caveats is probably close to perot and this goes to your point about it's, you know, perot got 19%. and so people were willing to vote for him. >> and, john, people -- we

actually have some people, you remember that, ross perot got 19% after quitting the race saying some crazy things like the black panthers were scaling the walls to try to disrupt his daughter's wedding. >> stockdale, who am i? why am i here? some bizarre things. you could actually go back and say if ross perot had kept it in the middle of the road, that 19% could have been 35% or 40%. i think you're right. i think ross perot is the correct analogy here. >> and so then to play the historical irony game, guess who is at the other town hall is a very buttoned down man named bush who's being bedevilled by this larger figure. >> oh, my lord. >> just compare the images, kacie hunt, yesterday what a

day. what a day in new hampshire. >> it was, joe. those image that's you're talking about were exactly the thing that stood out the most. i was in the room for donald trump and this ruckus town hall. this atmosphere is unlike anything i've ever experienced in covering all of these town halls. what would be normally considered a pretty strong event about 200, 250 people at a vfw hall. but when you have this -- when you have trump down the road, it's just very difficult to stand up for it. see how bush tried to get into the news cycle on donald trump here in new hampshire. >> mr. trump doesn't have a proven conservative record. he was a democrat longer in the last decade than he was a republican. he's given more money to democrats. even on immigration, look, it's the -- the language is pretty

visi have tree olic, for sure. it is not a conservative plan. why don't we support -- this is going to be my pitch, let's support someone who you don't have to guess where he stands because he's consistent. >> have i gotten under jeb bush's skin? i don't know. i will tell you this, you mention the word skin. he said the other day one of the dumber things i've heard ever in politics when talking about iraq. that we the united states, he said, have to show them that we have skin in the game in order to go into iraq. we've lost $2 trillion, thousands of lives, wounded warriors who i love all over the place and he's talking about we have to show them we have skin if the game? between common core, his act of love on immigration, and skin in the game with iraq. that's the third one that we now

added. i don't see how he's electable. jeb bush is a low energy person. for him to get things done is hard. he's very low energy. >> i'm sorry. go ahead. i'm sorry. kacie, jeb's done pretty well for himself. go ahead. >> yes. well, one of the voters in the back of donald trump's town hall when trump first took the stage yelled out isn't jeb bush sinking to the bottom of the lake right now? and trump stood back and put his arms out and said these are my people. how do you compete with that show? >> you can't. >> it's really hard. >> you can't. >> go ahead, kacie. >> i will add that i do think trump ran into some of the things that if in fact this is

going to take a down swing might trim p him up. a couple questions from the audience, one person asked him was his huberrous too much? was it going to become a problem? another person said i went to your website and looking for your policies, all i found is one on immigration, when are you going to put out the rest of them? he said i think the press is more interested in the policy piece thanksgivis than the vote. i want to good back to john meachum for a second. john, it strikes me here that this really is in large part the crowd certainly the power of celebrity, something that he's certainly using to bring the voters in. it's his job to keep the voters. he seems to be doing that. i think they had 25,000 people come because oprah was there in part early on in the campaign. it may have been in south

carolina. historically, is this new and unchartered territory for us as well? celebrity playing such a massive role in american politics? or are there analogies to draw there? >> as the candidate, him or herself, it's much rarer than the power of transferrable celebrity which is around for a long time. there's an architype. analogies are complicated here. the idea of the rich guy coming in, being beholden to no one, being able to tell him the way it is without being part of the process is a familiar american story. what i don't think we've seen, at least that i can think of off hand, is someone with this kind of entertaining power. so to go to your point, what's happened here is you have a traditional populous tributary and amazing celebrity tributary

intersecretarying and that's the river we're looking at. >> coming together. a guy who's been entertaining on tv and into the hot spotlight since the mid 1980s. let's bring in bob. you're going to be attending that rally and contributing to a new piece and looking at weather trump's brand will play with southern voters. i can tell you it certainly is with all the southern voters i heard. i want you to talk about that. but also, i want you to tell the viewers something i'm noticing and you have to be noticing on the ground. it's almost like trump's fist hit the ground and everybody is scattering and wounded. scott walker, there's no way to put it. he is wounded out there on the campaign trail. he's in trouble. jeb bush looks flat.

rand paul, nonexistent, ted cruz, where is he? i mean it's -- it is -- i don't think i've seen one person so dominate a crowded field like this. what is happening to the other campaigns? >> they're not drawing the same crowds. it's going to be fascinating to see trump on friday, joe. he's heading to your old neighborhood. he's going to be drawing people from pennsylvania coal yashgs mobile, alabama, mississippi gulf coast, louisiana, they're all going to be coming. trump's campaign manager tells me we should expect 30 to 40,000 people in a football stadium in mobile, alabama, on friday. roaring for trump. who els brings that energy to the race? when i check in with other campaigns, joe, you know what they privately say? just wait a few months. they say -- we think we'll whoop them if he's still in. we don't think he's going to be in early next year. just wait and see. no one wants to spend the cash at this point in the race against him. >> so -- and i think, you know,

having trouble putting words to it, even after watching what happened last night, again this morning as we bumped into the show. i don't know if that's necessarily going to happen. casey hunt, i'm wondering if you had a chance to talk to voters after the town hall and if you got a sense as to were they there because they wanted to be entertained or are these people that are going to be vote for donald trump. >> there were absolutely supporters of donald trump. they said i want to vote for this guy. there were also a lot of -- the typical new hampshire voters. the woman that said the first question is i went to see john kasich and chris christie, i'm going see everybody before i make up my mind. that's the way the process is up here. i think if, in fact, they're campaigning they're going to be seeing something different, it's going to be for that reason. because the voters are so

engaged. they're seeing all the different candidates. they're not necessarily swayed by celebrity. part of this is everybody everyone knows what to expect from trump, right? every time you get a new piece of information about donald trump, he says something new or different, it adds to this enormous pile that you already know. that's not true with any of the other candidates. >> kacie hunt and robert costa, thank you very much. >> i think we need to go to alabama. >> i just -- something -- i can't -- i've never seen anything like this before. >> still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump will join us live this morning. i'm going to ask him about policy. that's at the top of our 7:00 hour. and hillary clinton's campaign goes on the attack as criticism grows over the response to her e-mail controversy. it was very interesting. i think what we saw on your show yesterday, yep, will it be enough to stop the headlines? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (vo) what's your dog food's first ingredient?

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i mean, look, polls go up

and down. this is foolishness. i'm having to come out of vacation to deal with this kind of stupidity that these people are putting out. and hill i have going to be just fine. this goes on and on. it's never going to stop. you know, these people -- we don't like hillary. why is jim carville out there defending her? why can't we attack her? i understand. that i've been dealing with this for 23 years now. it's stupid media people talking and other stupid media people making stuff up and spinning themselves up on something that's not going to amount to a hill of beans. >> it just doesn't work anymore, does it? you know, 1992 was a great year. but it's not 1992. >> it's also -- >> also you have the fbi involved here. >> yeah. i know james. james need to take it up to the fbi. he can take it up with the "new york times," too. he can take it up with a lot of people. they can't do the stupid vast

right-wing conspiracy anymore. you also have to talk to the former cia directors. you need to talk to former state department heads. you need to talk to people in the obama administration that say this is a catastrophe she did this and endangered america's national security. you hear that among democrats. really quickly, you in a great analogy on donald trump, ross perot. >> you asked the question to meachum about the celebrity thing. the closest analogy to that regard is schwarzenegger whose celebrity if i when he ran for governor of california was a huge factor in turning him into the governor of california and who had controversies and scandals in his back ground. and when democrats spent millions of dollars in that campaign trying to raise those issues about issues he had with women -- >> the groping. >> they bounced off him. it points out will challenge for scott walker, jeb bush, ted cruz if any of them decide to go negative on trump. they should look really

carefully at the example of what happened with schwarzenegger when democrats were negative on him. >> and how interesting -- >> there's a way to do i. it's not easy. >> steve schmitt was in that campaign. he's the one person that morning that everybody jumped on us to say that trump was going to be relevant. steve schmitt is one person that agreed with us that said, yes. you know what? he's seen it before. >> yeah. >> all right. we do have so much other news to get. to we bumped in with an interesting comment by the professor after a tough news conference on tuesday, hillary clinton's press team went on the attack pushing back on the validity of the controversy surrounding her e-mail server. yesterday fox news first reported the contents of two e-mails that triggered the fbi investigation. the concern from an intelligence community inspector general that they contained classified information. one e-mail described the worsening situation in benghazi. the other had intel about the deadly benghazi attacks that

left ambassador chris stephens and three other americans dead. clinton's campaign believes they are vindicated and what remains is a dispute between agencies over the sensitivity of the information. a campaign spokesman told reporters that it proves clinton was a passive recipient of unwitting information that subsequently became classified. >> all right. let's get to john heilemann yesterday, yeah, there was an interview on your show that was described by everybody i talked to as just a disaster for the clinton team. talk about it. >> i talked to jim palmieri who is -- >> you've known him for a long time. >> since the '92 campaign. we did a lengthy interview. we ended up running 15 minutes on the show. i thought that she was -- she

was acting with professionalism. it was all on the e-mail issue. i think she was in a bad place. there were some of -- there were some elements of her -- some of the things we've seen from the campaign, evasiveness in this direction. i think we have sound that we're going to throw to. take a look at. that. >> people think that answer is a lot more complicated than it really is. if she answered this many times and she had, you know, she did have her own e-mail account others have done it before and it was just more convenient and she kept it like that. she didn't really think -- that's the thing. she didn't really think it through. she has said, had she, she would have done it differently. >> i asked her, it was the very end of the interview. i came back to the core question. why did she need a private server? why did she do this unprecedented thing that no other -- they say well people have private e-mail. yeah, other people use private e-mail. no one had a server in their

house. that's not ever happened before. i asked her that question. that was her answer to why. what did she need to do this for? and the answer, i don't think she really thought it through in the context, i think, of potentially classified information that, you know, again according to the law you're not allowed to take classified information and put it in an unsecure and unauthorized facility. the secretary of state didn't think it through, that is sort of beggar's belief. >> it does. i don't know how to say this charitably, it was a disaster of an interview. at least that's what everybody i talked to thought, mika. >> she seems to be really struggling. >> by the way, jen wasn't there when the server was set up. jen wasn't there when -- it's not like it's on jen. but she had -- >> during her news conference, it was -- the problem is that there's not a good answer. right? does anyone have a good answer? >> there is not a good answer. >> really work on it.

>> i'll say one more thing to speak to the palmieri thing. one of the most telling exchanges, i talked about platte river systems, the company that maintained the server. do you know anything about how hillary came to hire that firm which is reported operated out of a apartment in denver with a server in the bathroom, how she came to hire that firm? no. did she vet that firm? i don't know. what was the circumstances under which they were hired? what was the relationship? i don't know. i don't know -- again, i believe her. i believe she does not know. >> i do, too. >> again, from the standpoint of trying to manage this as a communications matter to not know the answer to that question, not a good place to be. >> he said something off camera that i think you'll be comfortable saying on camera. this is one candidate that if there is an fbi investigation going on if, there -- if she has the same lawyer representing her that represented david petraeus, if you have people in the intel community talking about just

absolutely shocked at what's going on here, there are obviously some serious concerns. you said any other candidate in america would have had everybody come together for ten hours and have the lawyers here and the campaign people here and then walk them through it. but they obviously aren't doing that with hillary. >> i don't know whether that meeting is taking place. as a matter of fact, i do not know it. but on the basis of all my interactions with the campaign and this talk yesterday with jennifer, i just don't think that's happened. i think there are many people who work for the campaign are in the dark. that key facts of what transpired. >> i think you're right. they can't answer basic questions because there are no good answers to those questions. there are no good answers to the question of why she got a server in a denver condo lost bathroom and why america's national security secrets went through there. >> along with her personal stuff and now it's scrubbed.

do you have a good answer? >> no, i don't. >> that's all. >> look, i think jon got to the point of what is the big deal with this politically which is i think the clintons kind of like sort of this sort of debating about whether or not it was classified or not, what the level was. the bigger question is why did you do this? that's the answer that will unsettle those -- >> why does one need to do this? coming up, who else would "time" pick to be on the cover this week? we'll look at the new issue and get the back story on this photo. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now...

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i did not see that coming. don't deal with disruptions. get better internet installed on your schedule. comcast business. built for business. jeb bush puts his friend in charge of his pac and they don't talk. i guarantee you, they talk all the time. and he's got $114 million sitting there that he's going to try to build up his own image which is not easy to do and he's going to work hard as is hillary clinton and they all have their friends running the pacs. they're all breaking the law in, my opinion, because if you tell me that jeb and the various other people that have set up pacs, and i'm not even talking about jeb. he's not even second in the poll for the most part. we have people far ahead of jeb, but the people that set up pacs are all talking. >> oh, my god. look at this.

what are you doing? this is going to be -- this is going to be on his wall for the rest of his life. >> yeah. >> he still has the "time" magazine article on his wall from 1989. >> that shows you how much he likes "time." >> i love the cover. >> it's incredible. >> deal it with, nancy gibbs, editor of "time" magazine and the washington bureau chief is here. what does deal with it sneen what are you trying to say, exactly? >> it's what he is saying to everyone who's been writing him off all summer. he's not going anywhere. you heard him saying against last night, you know, he's here to stay and he's in this to win. and we can focus all we likeout saying and ignore the poll and size of the crowd. i think we are missing the story. there he has whatever he might or might not do as president isn't what we should be talking about in august.

he just completely rewritten the rules and we can't take our eyes off of. >> i don't know what to say, actually, at this point when we sort of ran a montage. i was transfixed watching him last night. i don't know where this is going. >> you know what is interesting, too, watching it live actually was far more compelling than the clips. >> very compelling. >> this is -- >> talking to him in person is much more compelling than seeing it on the screen. what i would say, is you know, the risk of getting in trouble with the people, his role in this race is horrifying them, you can argue what we're seeing right now is potentially something that is very healthy. that to have this many people paying attention, to have this many people tuning into debates coming out or even arguing with him, no, you can't change the 14th amendment that, is all good. and what he -- the issues he is raising like about the role of money and politics which nobody likes, you may not think the answer is to have more

billionaires running, but some of the topics that are now front and center that were either we had given up either trying to do anything about them or even talk about them that he is saying oh, no, we're going to talk about this. you know, that is something that is probably to note now. and we can talk later about whether or not carl icahn is the right guy to be negotiating with china and japan. >> michael, all you have to do is look at the split screens between trump's events and jeb's or scott walker's and somebody else's and you see why on one side everybody is tuning him out. on the other side, everybody is transfixed. this actually is drawing more people in to pay attention to the campaign. >> that's exactly right. it's not just that he's more entertaining to watch. he actually comes across as more authentic which is if you think about it, enormously ironic. here's a guy who spent, you know, three decades in the public eye exaggerating his own

life. he's a pure salesman. yet, you put him at the iowa state fair and in his suit and he comes across as more authentic than the professional candidates who dressed up for the occasion in plaids and jeans and waving their pork chops in the air. >> that's a great point. they sit in front of the mirror and say does this plaid shirt make me look more -- >> or the belt here. >> and trump lands in the helicopter. >> that's right. >> he's more authentic. >> he is. and he's bringing -- so there's a criticism. there's a criticism of the media. there's a criticism of the political system. and we have a population now that is a significant share of, maybe even a majority, is sick of all of us. so that's incredibly appealing. and how do you respond to that if your playbook says and your consultants say you have to keep pretending? jeb bush has to keep pretending he's joyful. hillary clinton has to keep pretending that she really actually enjoys campaigning.

>> there's no joy in either of those campaigns. it's written over both of their faces. it is painful to watch. >> nancy, tell us about the eagle. >> so we brought in an american bald eagle. >> you brought that in? >> yes. >> it's real? >> it's a real eagle. oh, yeah. in fact, the photo editor said in fact, the photo editor said who has donecuçb

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critics are hoping new details about a secret side deal can help sway undecided lawmakers to join the opposition. the associated press first reported that the u.n. will let iran use its own inspectors at the sensitive nuclear site. tehran has been accused of using that location to covertly develop nuclear technology and the inspections center on past activity. joining us now from boston, member of the house arms services, seth molton of massachusetts. congressman molton who is a combat veteran of the iraq war has announce the his support ir >> congressman, why do you support the deal? >> i think it's the best option that we have on the table to prevent iran from getting a nuclear weapon. we can talk all we want about how the deal could be better. i'm not one to say that it's a great deal. but compared to going to war

immediately or trying to negotiate a better deal without any of the sanctions that we have in place right now is just not going to work. so we've got to implement this deal to prevent iran from getting a nuclear weapon. >> jon meachum? >> congressman, to what extent does your own military experience form that opinion? >> it's fundamental to why i'm here in the first place, why i ran for congress. and absolutely my experience in iraq and actually facing iranian weapons influences my views. we have to do everything we can to stop this regime. the number one priority is to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon. after we approve this deal, we keep up the pressure on them. they have american hostages. they violate human rights on a daily basis. and they're international sponsors of terrorism much that's all possible under the deal. that very important for people to remember. this is not about some nixon opening to china where we're

going on ski vacations in the mountains of iran. they are still the sworn enmiff the united states and our allies including israel and the middle east. this is about preventing the nuclear weapons development and we have to keep up the pressure on them in all the other ways. >> you mentioned keeping the pressure on iran. how can the united states keep the pressure on iran if the tehran regime itself is going to be inspecting itself at that site? isn't that a problem to have the sort of the drug dealers inspecting themselves on this? what is your response to this latest report? >> look, it's a very legitimate concern that's been raised. this is another example of why this is not a perfect deal. it's not a great deal. but it's still the best option that we have on the table. what these inspections are about are past dimensions of their nuclear program. is there anyone that thinks iran has not been developing nuclear

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breaking political news. what is the new poll? it just crossed. >> swing state polls, florida, pennsylvania, and ohio, joe biden running as well or better than hillary clinton against all the top republicans. >> okay. we'll have more on that coming up. also ahead, the donald is going to join us live in a few moments. and we'll also hear more of john heilemann's interview hillary clinton's communications director about the e-mail controversy that just won't go away. we'll be right back. you total your brand new car. nobody's hurt,but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do, drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement,

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maybe one more question. two more. go ahead. one question. you look so nice. okay, i'm going to have to go. all right. we'll do one from you. but it's always a negative question. go ahead. can you ask a positive question? i love that question. what a good guy. who are you? i love you. this is a great guy. why can't you ask me a question like that? >> oh, my god. >> it's the reverse of why i love mario cuomo press conferences. somebody ask him a question, that's a stupid question. and then mario will ask himself a question better. and it was a better question, of course, than the question the reporter asked and more relevant and actually even tougher because it was mario cuomo and he was just -- i guess mario cuomo would not

appreciate me comparing him to donald trump. but in a sense the strong, larger than life -- i remember growing up a conservative and looking at liberals. they were always wimps and apologizing. and then out came mario cuomo. 'pollingized for nothing. that's why i love bobby kennedy so much much he is a liberal that was tough. frank rich when he wrote for the "new york times," he's tough. >> i think today we heard donald trump in the same sentence with jack kennedy, arnold schwarzenegger and now mario cuomo. >> hey, heilman? deal with it. >> we're now talking about trump and the context of -- >> liberal and conservative. >> titans. jon meachum, what does very in common with all those people? bigger than life. no apologize and transcends politics. >> i think the compare and

contrast essay question will take a lot of blue books. >> you actually found a way to make it boring. okay. >> whoa! >> i'll tell you what, bar comes right at you still. >> joining us on the phone, the front-runner, republican race for president donald trump. >> donald trump, we're trying to figure out exactly there is that wonderful moment in "tootsie" where bill murray says he loves people to go in his place and leaves a couple days later and asks the question, what just happened? a lot happened yesterday. we're still trying to get our arms around it. what happened in new hampshire yesterday from the vantage point of you, the guy at the center of this political storm? >> we had a great evening, joe. it was an amazing evening. amazing group of people. and we had actually more than 2,500 people. we had a room that was filled. they had closed circuit televisions that were all over the place. they had areas of the building that the people couldn't get into the main auditorium. it was just an incredible -- it was an incredible place. and they're incredible people.

and they are trump voters. i was hearing you say before and kacie who is wonderful and all. those are people that are voting for trump. i guess 99% of them, i guess you always have a few, but most of them. it was like an evening of love. it was a love fest. i found out i have to call into your show this morning. and that was not good. >> wait. wait. did you just say that was not good? >> you're saying such nice thing this is morning that i hate to bring it up. i'd rather just listen. >> may i proceed? >> let's ask about politics first. then we get to policy second round. >> okay. go ahead. >> okay, jon heilman? >> mr. trump, i'm curious, you talked last night about you heard some rumors as we all have that some of your republican rivals might be getting ready to go negative on you and start spending money on television. how do you -- what's your take

on that and what is your plan to respond? >> john, i heard they're going to spend $3 million. the main names i heard was jeb bush. i heard that. i don't know. and i bring it up because i want people to be prepared for it. whether they see slanderous ads or ads that maybe aren't true and in some cases maybe are true. i want people to be prepared for it. i bring it up. it may or may not happen. so far sh it's been very interesting. lindsey graham was at 1%. he attacked me viciously. he went down to zero. not one person votes. the other is perry who really attacked me very strongly. and went from 4% or 5% down to 2%. looks like he's going to be out of the race. you know, that's really the

ultimate compliment when you get attacked and people go down. i assume they would go up to be honest with you. but they both went down. they got tremendous air time in the attacks. >> it's a compliment. jon meachum is with us from nashville. >> i'm curious, besides books you've written, are there some important political biographies that you have engaged with in the past years that are helping you as you think about what's going on right now? >> well, jon, i always found anything having to do with abraham lincoln fascinating. i found, you know, many, many -- i will read anything about lincoln. i just found the whole era fabulous. i studied it. i like it. you learn from it. but i found him to be a fascinating guy. very complex person. you know, i -- i gave an answer

the other day on "meet the press." i think it was a very good answer. they were saying when you're forming policy, having to do with isis, let's say, where do you get information? i see your show and other shows where you have on generals and where you have on people of substance that know the subject matter and people thought that was a strange answer that i see the shows. and i actually think it's a very good answer. you know, i'll see certain people that i like. i'll see certain people that i don't like. you know, i'm taking it to the next step. some of the people that i do like and do respect are actually come up to the office over the next few weeks and we're going to be talking about things such as defense and military and isis, et cetera. >> all right. michael warren is us with. >> we heard earlier in the show from jeb bush saying in his town

hall down the street from yours last night that, you know, donald trump doesn't have a conservative report. there are other candidates in this race like himself, like jeb bush, who can point to two terms as governor of florida that actually accomplished a conservative record on policy. what's your response to that? how can republican voters know that you're not just telling them what they want to hear, that you actually believe in these conservative policies that you've been aspousing for the last several months? >> right. i left my father's business at a pretty young age. i moved to manhattan. everybody in manhattan is a democrat. everybody. you sort of grow up in that atmosphere. and virtually you see races where republicans don't even run. there's nobody on the line. if you get -- if you're a democrat nominee, you automatically win the election, whoever gets that wins the election.

so i grew up with that. and if you look at it and if you really think about it, ronald reagan was a democrat. and really a democrat with a liberal leaning or liberal event and then became a republican and a pretty conservative republican. i wouldn't say the most by any stretch. but a pretty conservative republican. and that's where i am. and whether i started really getting involved politically was actual actually people don't recognize but i've been involved in politics for a long time. usually on the other side. i got to know ronald reagan. i think he liked me. i liked him. but when you get down to it, i am a conservative person. i am by nature a somewhat conservative person. i never looked at putting a label on myself. frankly, putting a label on myself, it didn't matter. i wasn't in politics. it didn't matter whether i was a republican or whether i was -- it was something that absolutely had no bearing on me.

but if you look at my general attitudes in life, i think i would have certainly the more conservative label put on me. >> all right. donald, i want to ask you about the american dream, your slogan is make america great again. i'm curious on the issue of wages which have been flat for years now. could you give us some specifics on how you would address that issue and do you think the minimum wage should be raised across the board? >> so mika, it's such a nasty question because the answer has to be nasty. we're in a global economy now. it used to be people would leave new york state and companies would leave new york state or leave another state and go to florida, go to texas, go to wherever they go because the wages, you know, all sorts of different things. now it's not leaving new york or new jersey or wherever they're leaving. now they're leaving the united states and they're going to other countries. and they're competing for low taxes and they compete fog low wages. and they're competing for all sorts of things.

and one of the things that's happening is china with what they're doing with their currency with the devaluations. they're making it very, very difficult for companies to compete. so what's happening now is people are shopping. i see companies where they have international finance years, people that live in london. they don't -- they're not even citizens of the united states. they're shopping their companies to different places. and we can't have a situation where our labor is so much more expensive than other countries that we can no longer compete. one of the things i'll do if i win, i'll make us competitive as a country. but we are no longer competing against one state against the other. we're competing. it's the united states against other places. joe, where the taxes are lower, where the wages are lower. i want to create jobs so you don't have to worry about the minimum wage. they're making much more than the minimum wage. i think having a low minimum

wage is not a bad thing for this country, mika. >> okay. that's an answer. and then also on foreign policy, just overall, how you would describe the trump doctrine? what does that look like? we don't get along with everybody. yet, everybody takes advantage of us. whether it is trade pacs or anything, they're so horrible. i'm bringing carl icahn in. i'm bringing friends of mine that are among the best, actually are the best in the world. we're going to straighten it out n term of military, we're going to make our military so big, so strong, so powerful. we're never going to have to use it. nobody is going to mess with us, mic meek yachlt we're not a respected country. we're laughed at. and everybody that deals with us takes advantage of us.

>> let me ask you a question. you have liberals and libertarians coming together over criminal justice reform. a lot of people on the right and left think it doesn't make sense that we have so many nonviolent offenders in prison and we spend $80 billion a year in incarcerating americans. we spend four time the amount keeping people in jail than we do on educating americans. have you been following the talk about criminal justice reform? i have. >> do you think we need to stop putting so many nonviolent offenders in jail and paying $8 o billion a year? >> well, i have to say this, in terms of our cities and in terms of the violent offenses, we have to get a lot tougher.

if they're allowed to do their job the way they know how to do it, they'll stop the onslaught of crime that we have in this country. >> so that's for violent offenders. what about nonviolent crimes? what about marijuana? should a kid be thrown in jail because he gets busted for marijuana? i don't really think. so i think that maybe the dealers have to be looked at very strongly. then you have states legalizing it. so it's hard to say that you're in one side of the border and you go to jail and you're on the other side and can you go into a store and buy it. so there is going to be changes made there, joe. there has to be. but you just can't. so when you mention the marijuana that, is a very tough subject nowadays, especially since it's been legalized. >> yeah. >> back to the economy. i'm just curious, i asked you this question last time. >> don't do it, mika. i know exactly what you're going to ask. i'd rather talk about mobile, alabama, what's happening there.

i know mika is going to ask me her favorite question. i got back late last night, i said i hope she'll ask me what happened in mobile where hopefully your brother is going to be there. >> my brother will be there. listen, donald, you know mika and i know mika, she has to as the question and then we can talk about mee beal. >> what is your position on equal pay for women and how you would address the on going problem of women getting access to capital? >> glad you asked that question. >> women should have absolute access to capital, mika. whether it comes to categorizing people, men and women into a group, it gets to be very dangerous. when you have to categorize men and women into a particular group and a particular pay scale, it gets very -- people do different jobs. if they do the same job, they should get the same pay. but it's very hard to say what

is the same job. it's a very, very tricky question. i talked about competition with other places and other parts of the world. there is one of the things we have to look at very strongly. >> but you did just say though, i think this is what mika is getting at, equal pay for equal jobs. it is tricky. >> who would you pay more here, donald? >> i would absolutely pay you more. >> oh, my god. >> i would pay you much more. i would pay mika so much more your head would spin. mika, i heard you talking about mobile. so what happened, mobile, alabama, is amazing. we took a barn and we had 500 people we thought. they called and said we're being swamped. then we took a room for 1500 people. and they call and they said we're swamped. then they took the convention center and now i understand they're going to have, like, 30 or 40 or something thousand people. they ended up taking the football stadium. so it's going to be an amazing

fry. your brother must be a brilliant guy. >> george is bringing three friends. he is going to be there. >> he wants to bring more. >> he wants to bring more. i told him eight was a little too much. let's go jon meachum in new york. >> what surprised you the most become a candidate as opposed to being a -- someone who is flirting with the idea? >> well, i've had a lot of pleasant surprised. i met great people. i met tremendous enthusiasm. my theme is make america great again. i even copyrighted it. i said you can't use it, it's copyright. i can't believe i got the copyright. i guess i have a good lawyer. that's what i do. >> that's a lot of billable hours. you know what? i gained a lot of respect for

some members of the press. i've seen a lot of, you know, i've seen a lot of dishonesty with the press. i also met some amazing people in the press that really are great political reporters. i'm really surprised at that aspect. i met some people that really write falsely, you know, where something that is written that just didn't take place. i'm sort of amazed. even at an event. i met some people in the press that i'm impressed with. >> it's interesting, ed. as you know, we talk about everything on this show and we don't hide the nakt we've nobody you for very long time. i even advised you early on, stop picking fights with people. and you ignore all my advice and then you go up 30 points in the polls. one thing that i learned is date of birth ald -- donald is -- bi

clinton told me not so long ago if you're going to be a good governor or good president, you have to have a short memory. donald, if he's punched, punches back. but what i found out over the past month is very short memory. he's always looking for friends. people can forget what people say and say let's get together. that's what bill clinton was a master of. >> joe, you have a great example in your studio. john heilemann, i couldn't stand this guy, right? i could not stand him. what happened is through his cohort mark, i met john and i liked him a lot. and they did an interview. i actually really like him a lot. >> you might want to rethink that. >> hey john, who would have thought i would have liked you, right? >> it'sks> you know, i do like him. i respect him.

a lot of times you meet so many people. you just have to be able to forget it. and i think i'm able to do that generally. sometimes i'm not. i will say. but generally speaking, i think i'm able to da that. >> i'll share the moment of bonding that occurred when mr. trump walked into the room and said hey, john heilemann, we should like each other, we're both german. >> let's get serious. >> so john has a quick question. >> i'm going to go back to policy. how big a problem is the budget deficit and if it's a big problem, mr. trump, what you would propose to do about it? and i specifically am curious what you think about entitlement reform. >> it's important. we have other things in important. you know, we spend more money by many, many times on the military than anybody else. i've been analyzing this for the last month. the money we spend is like protecting other places, like we protect saudi arabia. we protect south korea. we protect germany. we pro secretary so many other places. i'm saying what are we getting

out of this? what do we get out of this? these are competitors of ours. and they're economic competitors are above ours. what are we getting? there are so many places where we can cut because we have the massive deficits. we have now it's really 19 trillion. i've been saying 18 trillion. now it's $18 trillion that we owe. we owe china, think of this, 4 $1.4 trillion. we owe japan money. i say that's like a magic act. how do we owe them money? they say everything from us and on open of it, we owe them all of this money. so there are so many places, jon, that we can tut that people aren't even talking about, that other candidates don't even know about. i'm very proud of the immigration situation. by bringing it up, you know i took a lot of heat first couple weeks. boy did i take -- your friend rush limbaugh, said trump endured more incoming, first time i heard that talking about

the press. he's endured more incoming than any human being i've ever seen. and then it turned out i was right. now immigration and illegal immigration is the big topic. i'm honored about that. it should be. you had the horror shows going on and people are seeing what is happening. and now immigration is such a big thing. now we're taking it to the next level with my policy. john, there are so many place that's can be cut that we can get this budget balanced and we can have a stronger country, a much stronger country. >> so donald, we have news breaking across the wire. a new poll has just come across the wire. get this this is about hillary. vice president joe biden is running as well or better than hillary clinton in general election matchups against top

republicans in florida, ohio, and pennsylvania. the three of the most important states. and favorability numbers in general election voters are a lot better than hillary clinton's. clinton is still crushing but joe biden among democrats but when you talk about who can win the general election, watch this. while you and jeb were feuding in new hampshire, you actually took the alead according to the poll of florida. you lead that state's primary 21% to 17% over bush. marco rubio is tied with ben carson all the way down at 11%. so you're beating jeb bush in his home state of florida, easily beating marco rubio in the home state of florida. but the shocking news here is that now joe biden is doing much better in general election matchups than hillary clinton. are we starting to see -- do you believe we're beginning to see

the decline of hillary clinton as a democratic nominee? >> well, i think that could be maybe the beginning of getting joe biden into the race. you would think he'd want to get into the race. he's always wanted to do it. he's run, i guess, two or three times and he's always wanted to do it. so this could be it. but i will say this, you know, hillary what she did, if you look at general petraeus, what she did is far greater as a crime and it is a crime. the question is whether or not democrat prosecutors will prosecute her. and everybody is watching to see whether or not they're honorable. frankly, if that were a republican that did what she did, they would have already been in jail. >> look at bob mcdonald in virginia. didn't violate a state law. the justice department decides to go after him and puts him in jail for five, six, seven, eight years. >> very sad. >> because he got a rolex watch and had a diet supplement event

at the governor's mansion. he's in jail for six, seven, eight years. comparing that with what's going on here with america's national security, i got to agree with you. if this were a republican, somebody would already be indicted. >> this would have happened a long time ago, the indictment. and i think a lot of people are watching. and they know this is very serious what she did. it's at a much higher level. had there not been a petraeus and, you know, the catastrophic events that happened around him, it would be a different story. but petraeus on documents that were not nearly as important and on far fewer documents, you know, his life has been destroyed. it's like nothing seems to be happening with her. so the world is watching. now what's interesting is if a republican wins, hopefully it

will be me bushgts , but you ha ust limitation that's is five or six years. well, you know, hillary might really have to win this election because if a republican wins, i would imagine that their attorney general and their people are going to be their various prosecutors will be looking athe this because it goes for years after the election, four years after the election. so hillary might be fighting for her life in more ways than one. look, what she did is probably criminal. i think almost you could say almost certainly criminal. and it looks to me like she's not going to be prosecuted. and that's only because the prosecutors are democrats. >> okay. we'll leave it. there donald trump, thank you very much. we'll be watching you in mobile, alabama. we'll see you again soon. thank you. >> my brother will be seeing you there. >> thank you very much. i look forward it to, joe. >> thank you, donald. >> thank you, mika. >> he brings up david petraeus. you asked jen the question yesterday about the documents

that get general petraeus charged. and you asked her a question. she had no answer to. >> this classification was a complicated thing. they made a call, the clinton people, to make the point that there is disputes between agencies about what should be classified, all that stuff. the bottom line is that the law says -- >> they talk about the -- >> the law says that it doesn't matter whether the document is marked classified or not. it's not about the markings. that's not what the law goes. to the law goes to the information inside the documents. so in the petraeus case, the documents over which he was prosecuted and convicted were unmarked documents that were determined to be classified. and the primary responsibility for determining whether a document is classified or not resides with the public official. mike mckay is a former attorney general and wrote a powerful op-ed where he said there is no classification angel that sits on your shoulder. if you're the secretary of

state, you have to be looking at documents and saying are these sensitive enough that they might be classified? you have an idea about that, being sensitive to that. it should govern your behavior. his point is there is the legal issue and common sense issue. the common sense issue says if you're secretary of state, you should not have a serve you are in your house that might receive document that's might be classified. >> right. >> all right. we're going to be seeing that interview that you did with jen palmieri coming up. still ahead, award winning filmmaker ken burns joins us with a historical perspective on donald trump's presidential campaign. have we ever seen anything like it before? and up next, it seems everyone but hillary clinton wants to fwa talk about her e-mail scandal. we'll talk about the questions that prompted this already infamous shrug. we'll being right back. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag.

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handed over the server. they can do whatever they want to figure out what's there or not. there that's for the people investigating it to try to figure out. but we turned over everything. every single thing. personal stuff, we did not. i had no obligation to do so. and did not. >> secretary clinton, is this an indication this this issue isn't going to go away for the remainder of your campaign? >> nobody talks to me about it other than you guys. >> joining us now washington, nbc news white house correspond kristen welker who asked hillary clinton that final question on tuesday. and here us with on set, anchor for "the blaze tv," amy holmes. good to have you both. we have a lot to get to. we ran a sound bite, james carville earlier who says that this scandal is a bunch of stupid media people talking to each other. is that how you would characterize the folks who were at that press conference including yourself when you asked that final question? i mean, is this a legitimate story? how you would characterize this? >> i think it is a legitimate

story. i don't think it's just a con instruct of the media or of the republicans for that matter. her response that this is something that we only ask about, that we oem canly care a doesn't square with questions i have for voters, independents, undecides and those that want answers. does this mean she plays by a different set of rules? i put that question to the campaign yesterday. do they need to change their strategy? do they need to take this more seriously? and there is a sense that they're going to be ramping up their efforts to try to do damage control, reach out to some of the supporters. but i've been talking to democrats who say they're worried that this is a campaign in denial about how serious this issue is and the fact it is resonating with voters and we're seeing that bear out in the polls. >> john heilemann, did regular voters come up? did democrats ask but e-mail? >> every single one. and that --

>> every single one? >> actually, met most. democrats basically -- i'm talking about the people who like hillary clinton, who would say i'm for, i wants to be for her. these are democrats. but the question to reporters i know, how bad is this? how serious is it? i don't really understand it. could this hurt her in a general election? i'm nervous about it. tell me about it. not, again, not attacking her. not saying they shi she's necessarily corrupt or broken the law, but just a little nervous. a little queasy, a little restive about here's the guy bernie sanders who ha has obvious issues. he is a socialist. maybe that is not the most electable but he seems clean. there's no baggage there. how bad is this? >> so amy, when i talked to fundraisers, people that have been with hillary before, a lot of them in manhattan, the core of her support, they roll their eyes and a lot of them roll

their eyes and say to me, i can't -- obviously off the record, not for at bugs but they say i can't believe we're going through this again. and they are now getting worried about whether she's electable in a general election. >> right. the clinton scandal machine all over again. and john, to your point, democratic voters asking these questions because they're not getting the answers from the candidates. so they're going to reporters to say can you get to the bottom of this? this is how badly the clinton camp handled this. it's not the crime, it's the cover-up. in hillary clinton's case with the e-mails, it may be both. >> right. >> it's being investigated by the fbi and she can't answer the questions. >> and by the way, the voters are not only asking these questions because they don't have the answers, what john's interview yesterday with hillary clinton spokesperson showed was that members of her own political campaign don't have the answers to basic questions. >> on your show with all due respect, that's the title, here

is john heilemann, his interview with communications director for the clinton campaign jen palmieri speaking here about the process by which clinton's server was wiped clean. >> here's a question that was asked yesterday she wouldn't answer which was whether or not she wiped the server. okay, so let's just -- is the case that her lawyer has said the server was wiped, right? so did she or did she not direct someone to do more than delete the e-mails but in fact to either wipe, scrub, go deep near the system? did she allow that to happen? >> i think when you goat level of what actually technically happens on a server -- >> i'm not getting into that. >> i'm asking what she directed people to do with her server? did she ask more than delete e-mails? when i delete e-mail, i hit dele delete. so did she ask someone to do more than that or not? >> no. >> no? >> she said -- >> her -- she had lawyers look at all the embarrass to see what was personal and official and

she desided not to retaint personal ones and deleted. any technical questions about servers, that's not -- you know, i don't know. >> that's not the question. you're saying she did not direct anyone to do more than merely delete the e-mails? >> they went through it and deleted the e-mails. >> she doesn't have the answer, john. >> well, i then asked her, you know, so the company that ran the server has said the server was wiped clean. her lawyer says the server is wiped clean. they turned over this serve torte fbi and it has -- it has been scrubbed. >> who did that? >> if lawyer is saying that and she is saying here that all hillary said is delete the e-mail, there is a little contradiction there. quet is if it got wiped, how did it get wiped? why did it get wiped? if hillary clin didn't direct it to be wiped, then why was it wiped? and then later she backed away as i tried to more clarify the distinction between what i mean by scrubbed, wiped and merely deleted. she said i kind of don't know.

all i know is she wanted to get rid of the e-mails. don't know exactly what she said. >> you were. there first of all, and i'm just going to give an opinion that is obvious. i don't know that it should be stated as an opinion. it is so insulted to every reporter that is at that press conference when you ask about hillary clinton scrubbing, wiping clean the server, her acting like she didn't know what you were talking about. jen palmieri acting like she zblt know what she's talking b it's as if she thinks she's dauking to reporters that are incredibly dim. >> and some people described it as she seemed like she was filled with contempt when that question got asked. and a lot of her supporters who were rooting for her say that was really not a good moment for her. it exposed the fact that she doesn't have a clear answer to this question which a lot of people want answered. and when you're talking to democratic strategists, they're saying what she needs to do is

get out in front of this more. yes, she's been more accessible to the press. she's been holding more of the press conferences. she want to see her answer the tougher questions. maybe doing more interviews, for example. she did that interview back with cnn several weeks ago. she hasn't done one since. what you're hearing and hearing democrats say she really needs to do a better job getting out in front of this. and not being so filled with contempt when she gets some of the tough questions. >> and michael, not insulting everybody's intelligence. we all know what wiping a server clean means. hillary knows what it means. >> the secretary of state should know. >> jen knows what it means. her lawyer knows what it means. what do they think the reaction from the media is going to be when they sit there and act dumb going i don't know what you're talking about. >> i think they're living in a time when it was a lot easier to say this is it a republican attack. and maybe a media that was more willing to go along with that. or at least there weren't outlets for people to say, you know, to be able to pull up video and say wait a second, you

said this two weeks ago. now you're saying something different. or now the fbi is saying something different. i think they have been completely and hillary clinton is completely thrown off by what is sort of a new environment for her where they can't blame the right-wing conspiracy anymore. the fbi is actually involved. >> there is nothing to hide, she needs to do a real interview. >> right. mika, when james carville comes on and says what he said yesterday, when hillary responds the way she's responding yesterday, when you see people around her not being brought in to the inner circle and told what's really going on, you have a campaign that does -- it's a great point by michael, they think it's 1992 all over again. it's as if this campaign is 25 years -- like in the past. >> i would love to see the current version of the documentary. >> kristen welker, thank you so much. come back. amy, stay with us if you can. still ahead in the wake of the sony and ashley madison hacks,

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rnlg . up next, it's been 25 years since ken burns "the civil war," he's standing by to tell us about a new version. to worry a? well at safelite we know sooner or later, every chip will crack.

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kerry is a baby. he goes on a bicycle to go on a bicycle race. he's 7 o years old. he falls, he breaks his leg during the negotiation. and i tell everybody and you probably heard it, i swear to you, i will never be on a bicycle race as long as i'm president. >> oh, my god. ken burns is us with. documentary filmmaker. ken burns, it was somebody that -- he is the archie bunker billionaire. he's from queens. that is something that is -- it doesn't all line up. he is a billionaire. he lived in a manhattan. but when he talks, i say he sounded like my dad and millions of other middle class dads shouting at walter cronkite during vietnam, just win the war already. >> this is right. this is the classic third party candidate. someone who goes in without the support of a party, without the anxiety of a party, without all of the traditional buttresses that sort of want you to go in

to groom, stay on message. he's allowed to say everything. it's a lot of fun. it reminds you of huey long in '36, george wallace in '68. at the same time, he said nice things about the civil war series to me many, many times is there is a kind of beauty a, complexity and elegance to the political process and to american history. and that's what you want to wait for. what we like about the civil war is the way lincoln was able to negotiate complex sides and reconcile the two sides. when we see that, then you'll have a kind of leadership that americans want. >> what is interesting, you talk about political parties also. the republican party establishment is trying to kill him. >> of course. >> gene robinson said, it's like godzilla. why don't we use electricity? that will kill him. that makes him stronger and bigger. >> that's it. he plays right into all of this. he's so much fun that he has

taken up all the oxygen in the room. >> 25 years ago, mika, there was something that ken burns did that really did -- not only changed the way we watch television, it it changed the w we look at history. >> absolutely. and you've got that premiere 25 years ago, ken burns "the civil war" it had record-breaking ratings and rave reviews, and now pbs is set to rebroadcast the award-winning film over five nights in a newly restored version audiences have never seen before. >> we shot this on 16 millimeter film. the size of the image is about the size of my thumb nail, and we have done it in ultra hd, frame by frame, and everything will be crisper, sharper, stabilization of the image said. all the colors will be complex. it's what i saw from the viewfinder when i was working on it 30 years ago. >> amy. >> pleasure to talk to you about all of this. 25 years ago when you make this

docume documenty, could you have imagined 25 years later that the confederate flag would actually be a symbol of unity in america in terms of taking it down, particularly through the american south? >> you know, the civil war is the most important event in american history. everything that led up to it from, we hold these truths to be self-eft that all men are created equal. oops, the man who wrote that had slaves, and everything since has been a consequence of it. i'm working on a film right now about jackie ron binson about integrated swimming pools, hotels, about cops stopping young black kids. it's still going on. this is our central question in america. first of all, what is the nature of fraemd, and second, what do we do about race? if we brag we're this country started on the idea that all men are equal but we have 4 million people in 1861 who were owned by other people, then these problems are going to cascade

down the decades and we're going to be dealing with it. we came together on this issue. you know as well as i do, that battle flag is one of many of the army of northern virginia. it didn't come to prominence after brown versus board of education. this is not about taking away heritage. >> as far as education goes, i was a guy, born in atlanta, georgia, moved to mississippi, went to northwest florida, went to alabama, to gainesville, florida. i never knew that. history major. i got a scholarship. i never knew until after charleston that these flags that i grew up with were a reaction to brown v. board and everything that followed. >> when ft. sumpter fell, the first action of the civil war, they flew the stars and bars, not the dixie cross, not the

dixie flag, as we call it. that was the flag of the confederacy. this is one of several flags of the armed battle flags of the army of northern virginia that would appear in paintings and things like that, but it was not the symbol. it became the symbol of the confederacy once desegregation was under way. >> the first time i heard it 25 years ago, it didn't stick in my craw. i don't get it. shelby foote, who is one of the stars of the civil war 25 years ago said that anybody who thought the civil war was about slavery didn't understand the complexity of the civil war. >> no, i think what he was trying to say is that you couldn't just paint it -- we have unfortunately labored under the idea it was about something else, states rights, nullification, differences in political, economic stuff. just read south carolina's articles of secession. >> i know what it's about.

i'm asking you, what was shelby -- >> he didn't say in our film. actually, in his book, he excoreiates yajohn patterson, t segregationist governor of respectively arkansas and alabama who were at the time, so i think it would be unfair to tar shelby with that brush. a lot of people are trying to point to a great deal of complexity. the answer is simply as you know slavery, slavery, slavery. >> and coming from the day they signed the constitution. >> coming from the moment we signed the declaration, the moment we started the constitution. a sleeping serpent that lay coiled under the table. >> sleeping serpent. the rebroadcast of the civil war will air on pbs on five consecutive nights starting september 7th. >> by the way, the red sox will get them next year. >> we'll be right back.

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what a show this is. >> it has been. >> and it continues. >> you have to tell that story. we'll fit it in. coming up at the top -- that's incredible. >> donald trump holds court in new hampshire. we'll play you the highlights, and there are many. you just can't look away. plus, the latest attempt by hillary clinton's campaign to do damage control over the e-mail controversy. >> you can't look away. >> more on that coming up. we'll be right back. wait, i can freeze my account.

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we'll never win if we're appealing to people's anger each and every day. >> right down the road, we have jeb. very small crowd. >> we're a conservative party, aren't we? >> very small crowd. >> mr. trump doesn't have a proven conservative record. >> you know what's happening to jeb's crowd as you know right down the street? >> he was a democrat longer in the last decade than he was a republican. >> they're sleeping. they're sleeping now. >> he's given more money to democrats than he's given to republicans. >> bush had, i heard, 140, 150 people. we have 2,579 people.

>> when people look at his record, it is not a conservative record. >> one of the great honors is that everybody who attacks me seems to go down. >> oh, my gosh. >> okay. so -- so there i am with jack last night, watching nin joggo, the latest season is blockbuster. you call me up, and you say -- you have to turn on the tv. trump's on. i go what channel? you say every channel. >> every channel. >> i turned it on. i will say this, i have never seen anything in politics like it in my life. >> ever. >> i would say, is this just me? >> no. >> and then i heard people analyze it saying the same thing. that it is -- it was -- >> i have a very distractible 17-year-old who sat and watched that with me. we just watched it. we just watched it. and then, that like parallel with bush. >> and john heilemann, we

were -- you were talking about on cnn, a republican strategist who is significant in the party. >> we could say his name, can't we? >> alex cuastellanos. >> his take was a little surprising, wasn't it. >> alex had been quite critical of trump. i believe after the republican debate, and i like alex a lot and i respect his views. he was very critical of trump at the debate. he said he's going to lose altitude after the debate. just on him, he said that. this time, he said last night, he was like the most gifted political communicator he had seen since ronald reagan. that's like two weeks ago from cleveland to now. that tells you something about how good or captivating at least trump's performance was. >> that's what it was last night. when i heard alex say that, i was like, okay. that wasn't just me. >> oh, no. >> it was -- it was

unbelievable. and now, you've got -- it's likether beatles are coming to town. my brother called me up last week and said, not just my brother. i'm starting to get calls. because he's going to mobile, alabama. >> and they had to change the venue already. >> everybody i have known throughout the south are calling me saying, i want to get in. i want to get in. >> i don't know. >> i haven't seen this happen a lot. and so now you're hearing the republican establishment going from saying he sucks, he's a joke, he's a clown, he's getting out of the race, to now it's he's dangerous. >> well, yes, he is dangerous. staff writer at the weekly standard michael warren is with us. we also have jon meacham, he's the author of the forthcoming book destiny and power, the destiny of george herbert walker bush, which is out in november. donald trump held a town hall in front of hundreds where he took questions from the audience for the first time.

but first, he met with reporters in a press conference where he talked about the issues, his rivals, and what he would do on his first day in office. >> the first thing is building a wall, which mexico will pay for. okay. we're going to build it. i know how to do it. it's going to be a real wall, not a toy wall like we have right now. there's a very big question as to the anchor babies. they have been talking about it for years. there's a very big question as to whether or not the 14th amendment actually covers this. we're going to find out whether or not it does. changing the 14th amendment would take years and years, a long, drawn-out process. here's what's happening. a woman is going to have a baby. they wait on the border. just before the baby, they come over to the border. they have the baby in the united states. we now take care of that baby, social security, medicare, education.

give me a break. mitt romney let us down. he should have won that election. he failed. he choked. in the end, no different than a golfer who misses a putt on the 18th hole. no different than a man who strikes out, a baseball player. something happened to him. and that's not going to happen to me. well, somebody wrote an article that i was a whiner, that i complained. i said, he's right. i do complain, because our country is in trouble. and i said, i complain and complain and i whine and i whine until i win. and then i win. the only thing constant is trump. i mean, all of them change on the bottom, going up and down like yo-yos, but i have been up there for a long time and i hope i'm going to be up there for a long time. i read a lot of phony reports, a couple reports today in the paper saying, oh, well, when donald trump gets tired of doing this, he's doing great and leading the polls, but at some point -- i'm not going anywhere,

folks. yrm not doing this for my health. i'm doing this to make america great again. >> it's going to be in latin, the motto across the top of my house. the only thing constant is trump. you have all his vanity, and then you have the only thing constant is trump. >> trump then went before a massive town hall crowd of more than 1200 people, not including hundreds more who could not get in. >> i heard that jeb bush, that marco rubio, that governor walker, who? who? that's what they're saying, who? the three of them are going to spend a lot of money on negative ads about me. so i think, you know, you can listen. listen, you're fired. but i just heard it. they said they're going to spend -- i love these rowdy crowds. isn't it great? the spirit.

there's spirit. [ cheers and applause ] you know what. i'll tell you what. you know what's happening to jeb's crowd as you know right down the street? they're sleeping. they're sleeping now. i was at jury duty the other day. did you see it? i was at jury duty. i enjoyed it. actually, it was a great experience. but i had to fill out a form. they said profession. it was a line. it said what profession? what's your profession? and i said, i refuse to say i'm a politician. i can't tell you. so if you people don't mind, you know what i did, i put real estate. okay? i couldn't say -- i just couldn't say these politicians -- i can't take them. >> you know how tall the wall is, it's like this. and it's not a wall, it's a little fence. i'm talking about a wall. see the ceiling up there?

higher. you do a precast plank with beautiful everything. just perfect. i want it to be so beautiful, because maybe some day they're going to call it the trump wall, maybe. so i have to make sure it's beautiful, right? i'll be very proud of that wall. if they call it the trump wall, it has to be beautiful. >> you know, i did write the art of the deal. did anybody ever here of "the art of the deal." ? give me that book. nice guy. should i sign it? give me that book. give me that book. see. great. president obama, secretary kerry, i highly think you should read this book quickly. quickly. quickly. >> all right. so wow. so what do you think?

>> i'm going to go to the correspondent -- >> we have to digest a little bit of this first. >> i can't, it's too much. >> john, it is a little -- what do you think? digest. >> look, he's a celebrity. we're talking about will he be able to get the big crowds in mobile, some of these other places that he's going? people are going to show up because it's donald trump and, i mean, you turned on the tv. it was a spectacle to watch. >> i called my parents. i said, you might want to -- it's just turn on the television. and they said, we're already watching. >> he's entertaining. it's august 2015. it's a year and a half -- >> it's early. it's six months before the primaries. exactly. >> i think people are tuning in because it's a spectacle. and because he's saying something -- >> you think those people clapping and holding his book were there to be entertained? >> no, i don't think those people were. if you drive down -- >> because those are voters. >> i don't think they're all going to end up voting for

trump, i don't know. they see a lot of people, they like a lot of people. when i talk to republicans, they're interested in hearing about what all these candidates are saying. trump is the most energetic and saying the types of things that republican primary voters want to hear. >> john heilemann, you have been covering a couple of cycles, past couple cycles for your books. so you have been there. you were there in 2007 when giuliani was at 31%, 32%. you were there when michele bachmann won the iowa straw poll. we all, as a point of reference, say that's how it was in august 2007, august 2011. and that's what i was saying for a little bit. but this is entirely different. this is a new brand of politics. i think the thing that struck me last night as he got 30 minutes into it and was still going was okay, i can actually start seeing him connecting some of

the dots. and he actually can do this on policy and make it through. and win this thing. i think that's the first time i saw it last nights. and yes, there were a lot of pooe people watching our show that watch every day that are deeply offended by the mere mention of his name. we had guests on who said he wouldn't even be relevant. >> but this isn't about them. >> page has turned and jeb bush is yesterday and scott walker is yesterday. you can say whatever you can say. people are saying the same thing of john kennedy in 1960. it was all show biz, he was too young. no, i'm not comparing donald trump to jfk, but harry truman was deeply offended that somebody as lightweight as jfk would be there. people said the same thing about ronald reagan, a two-bit b-list actor, but he took politics in another direction. it's happening before our eyes now. >> there are two things that i think if you -- mika -- two things about the performance that struck me, one of which i

think is really important. one of which mika noted. he's talking without notes. and the thing, you know, when we did the focus group with the trump supporters in new hampshire, it came through there and it comes through watching this. the thing of he says what's on his mind. he's not scripted, not poll tested, not focus grouped, just saying what he thinks. people love that. people like that. even if they don't necessarily love everything he says. they like that it seems like he's speaking his mind. that's just -- it seems to be a huge thing. >> by the way, let's stay on that point. i always talked about my dad. he talks like people like my dad and other republican voters who are frustrated would be talking when they were sitting in their chair at home, which is fascinating about trump. he's a billionaire, but he sounds like a middle-class dad, like barking at walter cronkite in 1971. >> archie bunker qualities. that, and even the verbal

infelicities enhance that. he's having fun. and you look at -- i spent a bunch of time with jeb bush in iowa. he's just -- he seems so joyless. he seems so joyless. jeb bush seems like he's slogging through the campaign. trump looks like he's having a good time. the happy warrior thing is, you cannot underestimate -- you can't underestimate the importance of that and how much voters pick up on a candidate who is enjoying himself. >> we want to get jon meacham in, but to the points you guys just wove together, it's interesting. not only is he able to speak off the cuff and for extended, but it's beginning to build into something that i think people underestimated. jon meacham, and also the important of the joy of the fight. >> and also, jon, how the establishment has been caught asleep at the wheel. and i guarantee you -- and the media this morning -- i guarantee you this morning people are looking at this and

sort of their noses are going up in the air. i still think some people don't get it. >> you know, i remember 25 years, but having some really smart politically engaged friends who very early on in the ross perot phenomenon in '92 found perot to be the same kind of mesmerizing performance. it would be "the apprentice" meets "dallas" in that case, but in the sense that's here's somebodies who's talking straight, who doesn't feel captive because of their own personal wealth, their own personal story, all those populist themes. i think the analogy with all due caveats is probably close to perot. this goes to your point about it's, you know, perot got 19%. and so people were willing to vote for him. >> and jon, people -- we actually have people too young to remember that. ross perot got 19% after

quitting the race, saying some crazy things like the black panthers were scaling the walls to try to disrupt his daughter's wedding. >> stockdale, who i am? why i am here? >> his vice president saying who i am, why am i here? >> totally bizarre. >> you could say if ross perot kept it in the middle of the road, that 19% could have been 35% or 40%. i think you're right. i think ross perot is the correct analogy here. >> so then, to play the historical irony game, guess who's at the other town hall is a very buttoned down man named bush. who is being bedevilled by this far more entertaining figure who has the larger crowd. up next on "morning joe," hillary clinton's campaign admits it's changing its strategy for how to respond to questions over her e-mail controversy. we're looking at the new approach and if it will make a

difference. first, a check at the forecast. >> i'll get to the summer weekend in a second because we have a lot of changes going on. the summer weekends are ticking away. first, let's track the heavy rain today and tomorrow through areas where big cities on i-95. 6:00 p.m. this evening, syracuse, rochester, to state college and washington, d.c., best chances for thunderstorms. have the umbrella with you, and philadelphia. new york city, it looks like the storms move through early tomorrow morning, the very beginning of the rush hour down the hudson valley. then the storms track across new england, toward boston as we go through friday afternoon. today's forecast, beautiful weather in the middle of the country. you don't get days like this in august. 75, low humidity in chicago. still only 87 in dallas. the cool air and beautiful air in the middle of the country. let's forward to the weekend. the heat rapidly returns. dallas back up near 100 on saturday. we're going to have thunderstorms with cooler air arriving in the northern plains, and that will kick severe weather through the great lakes. does not look like a good beach

day sunday in the great lakes and the east coast, warm, humid, hit and miss storms but nothing to wash out the weekend plans. let's take a look at washington, d.c., one of the spots dodging showers and thunderstorms this afternoon. we're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. no student's ever done the full hand raise in ap calc. but your stellar notebook gives you the gumption to reach for the sky. that's that new gear feeling. this week, these office depot brand notebooks just one cent. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great.

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i'm a senior field technician for pg&e here in san jose. pg&e is using new technology to improve our system, replacing pipelines throughout the city of san jose, to provide safe and reliable services. raising a family here in the city of san jose has been a wonderful experience. my oldest son now works for pg&e. when i do get a chance, an opportunity to work with him,

it's always a pleasure. i love my job and i care about the work i do. i know how hard our crews work for our customers. i want them to know that they do have a safe and reliable system. together, we're building a better california. still -- i mean, look. polls go up and down. they talk, oh, this is foolishness. i'm having to come out of vacation to deal with this kind of stupidity these people are putting out. and hillary is going to be just fine. this goes on and on. it's never going to stop. these people, we don't like hillary. why is jim carvel out there defending her? why can't be attack her like we want to? i understand this. i have been dealing with this

for 23 years. it's stupid media people talking, other stupid media people talking it up, it's not going to amount to a hill of beans. >> it just doesn't work anymore. it was 1992 was a great year, but it's not 1992. >> also -- >> yes, also, you have the fbi involved here. i like james a lot. he needs to take it up with the fbi. he doesn't have to talk about stupid media people. he can take it up with the "new york times," too. he can take it up with a lot of people. they can't do the stupid vast right-wing conspiracy. you need to talk to the fbi, former state department heads, people in the obama administration who say this is an absolute catastrophe. she did this, and endangered america's national security. you hear that from democrats. >> after a tough news conference on tuesday, hillary clinton's press team went on the attack,

pushing back on the validity of the controversy surrounding her e-mail server. yesterday, fox news first reported the contents of two e-mails that triggered the fbi investigation. the concern from an intelligence community inspector general that they contained classified information. one e-mail described the worsening situation in benghazi. the other had intel about the deadly benghazi attacks that left ambassador chris stevens and three other americans dead. clinton's campaign believes they're vindicated and what remains is a dispute between agencies over the sensitivity of the information. a campaign spokesman told reporters that it proves clinton was a passive recipient of unwitting information that subsequently became classified. >> all right, let's get to john heilemann yesterday, yeah. there was an interview on your

show that was described by everybody i talked to as just a disaster for the clinton team. talk about it. >> well, i talked to jen palmieri, who is -- >> you have known for a long time. >> since the '92 campaign. she's the communications director for hillary. we did a lengthy interview. we talked for about 25 minutes and ran about 15 on the show. i thought that she was -- she was acting with consummate professionalism. all on the e-mail issue. and i think she was in a bad place. i mean, there were some elements of her, of some of the things we have seen from the campaign, evasiveness and misdirection, and also a lot of basic questions she didn't have an answer to. there's sound. let's take a look at that. >> i have encountered this a lot where people think the answer is a lot more complicated than it really is. she's answered this many times and she had, you know, she did have her own e-mail account.

others had done it before, and it was just more convenient and she kept it like that. that's the thing. she didn't really think it through. she has said, had she, she would have done it differently. >> i asked her, very end of the interview, i came back to the core question. why did she need a private server? why did she do this unprecedented thing that no other -- they say other people had private e-mail. yeah, other people used private e-mail, no one had a server in their house. that's not ever happened before. and i asked her that question. that was her answer to why. what did she need to do this for? and the answer, i don't think she really thought it through, in the context, i think, of potentially classified information that, you know, again, according to the law, you're not allowed to take classified information or potentially classified information and put it in annan secure facility. to say the secretary of state didn't think it through kind of beggars belief. >> it does. i don't know how to say it

charitab charitably. it was a disaster of an interview. at least that's what everybody i talked to thought, mika. >> she seemed to be struggling. >> by the way, jen wasn't there when the server was set up. it's not like it's on jen. >> look, hillary clinton is struggling during her news conference. >> terrible. >> and the problem is there's not a good answer. right? does anyone have a good answer? really work on it, make up one. >> i'll say one more thing, to speak to the palmieri thing. to me, i asked her about platt river systems, the network that maintained the server. i asked do you know anything about how she came to hire the firm, which has been reported operated out of an apartment in denver? do you know how she came to hire the firm? no, did she fevet the firm? i don't know. what was the relationship? i don't know. i don't know. i mean, again, i believe her. i believe she does not know. >> i do, too.

>> but again, from the stand point of trying to manage this as a communications matter to not know the answer to that question, not a good place to be. >> e-mails from the secretary of state, you said something off camera which i'm sure you would be comfortable saying on camera, the one candidate that if there's an fbi investigation going on, if she has the same lawyer representing her that represented david petraeus, if you have people in the intel community talking about, just absolutely shocked at what's going on here, there are obviously some serious concerns. you said any other candidate in america would have had everybody come together for ten hours and had the lawyers here and the campaign people here. and then walk them through it. but they obviously aren't doing that with hillary. >> i don't know whether that meeting has taken place, as a matter of fact. i don't know it. on the basis of all my interactions with the campaign and this talk yesterday with jennifer, i just don't think that's happened. i think they are, many of the people who work for the campaign are in the dark about key facts

of what transpired. >> i think you're right. they can't answer basic questions because there are no good answers to the questions. there are no good answers to the question of why she got a server in a denver cond o/loft bathroo, and why america's national security secrets went through there. >> coming up on "morning joe," ronan farrow hits hollywood with an actual hacker to show people just how vulnerable their information is online. if you have a cell phone, you're going to want to see his report. plus -- >> i didn't see anyone alive for over a year. my dad told us you can't leave the valley. as long as we stay here, we would be protected. >> here to preview the new post-apocalyptic thriller "z for zechariah" chiwetel ejiofor and

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what she did is probably criminal. i think almost you could say almost certainly criminal. and it look said to me like she's not going to be prosecuted. that's only because the prosecutors are democrats. i will say this. you know, hillary, what she did, if you look at general petraeus, what she did is far greater as a crime and it is a crime, the question is whether or not democrat prosecutors will

prosecute her. and everybody is watching to see whether or not they're honorable because frankly, if that were a republican, that did what she did, they would have already been in jail. >> well -- >> that was donald trump speaking. >> a big sigh. >> at least he doesn't make news when he comes on. >> it's amazing on many levels. actually -- >> fascinating. >> he has an amazing story from the iowa state fair. >> this is going to be the opening scene in game change three. >> yeah. oh, wow. >> saturday, hillary clinton was at the fair. she spent about an hour and a half. she walks two tenth of a mile because she moves in this falynx of media, voters, pork chops on sticks. everybody moving along. this heaving roiling mass, sweaty, 95 degrees. everybody is uncomfortable. and she's going from thing to

thing. as she's doing that, she gets literally to the pork chop on a stick stand, and at that moment, trump's helicopter flies over the fair. everyone around her, maybe not her, but every single other person, they looked up in the air and went, trump. >> wow. >> like this moment where the whole crowd looked up, and kind of under their breaths, trump. >> oh, my gosh. >> trump's here. as the helicopter passed overhead. it was a very cinematic, it made me think of "apocalypse now." i thought of, i love the smell of napalm in the morning. >> trump, trump. look up in the sky. it's a bird, it's a plane. >> time now for sara eisen. cnbc's sara eisen. we're going from trump to business. i am, and i don't know if you're talking about this or not. i don't follow the market that much. but i'm reading the news about oil.

man, you talk about boom, bust, boom, bust. they are in the middle of a massive bust. i mean, the stocks are down. the jobs are down. everybody is running for their lives. >> and it only keeps getting worse. we're looking at six and a half year lows for the price of oil, meaning we haven't seen these prices since the depths of the great recession, and people are bailing on these oil companies. the stocks are getting absolutely crushed. many of the stocks are in what's called correction mode, meaning they're 10% or more off the highs. 85% of the energy stocks, and yeah, it's going to mean lay-offs, a lot of pain for the states like texas which benefitted so much from the oil boom. >> stocks like caterpillar, for instance, also getting wiped out because they're so dependent, i mean, caterpillar, a double hit. usually a depending stock. china's downturn hurts

caterpillar, the oil hurts them. >> if you think about how much infrastructure needed to be built in this country and around the world to supply this oil and help this fracking boom in the country, names like caterpillar were involved. caterpillar. countries are getting hurt by this. countries like russia, all over the world, canada, our neighbor to the north, is about to go into recession because of this. a lot of these oil-exporting countries are getting slammed as a result. the one thing i will report, though, i have news on the u.s. economy. we just got word that 277,000 americans filed for unemployment benefits last week. it was a little higher than expected, which you don't want to see, but still, pretty solid pass, meaning firings aren't as much of a problem. it's sort of a dichotomy, the sell-off in commodities and oils hurting certain parts of the world and this country, yet at

the same time, the economic data continues to come in pretty steady, and pretty strong. and this is what wall street is grappling with. >> all right, sara eisen, thank you very much. and still ahead, a surprising look at just how much information can be compromised online using nothing but google. we'll be right back. what do you got? restrained driver in a motor vehicle. sir, can you hear me? two, three. just hold the bag. we need a portable x-ray, please! [ nurse ] i'm a nurse. i believe in the power of science and medicine. but i'm also human. and i believe in stacking the deck. [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson & johnson. [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, quicker smarter earlier fresher harder and yeah, even on sundays.

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41 past the hour. as many as 37 million e-mail addresses have now been released in the hack of the ashley madison.com, the website dedicated to helping people cheat on their spouses. reportedly, among them, more than 15,000 addresses belonging to u.s. government and military personnel, including white house employees. >> i read an article last night, ronan, like 95% of these people

that signed up for it were all dudes. >> right. as one can imagine. now, look, no surprise because two thirds of users of all digital dating sites are men. >> yeah. but yeah -- >> you have a look at how vulnerable. this really shows how everybody's privacy is vulnerable. >> it's raising a lot of different ethical issues about digital dating, privacy in general. one of the issues it's raising, just how accessible even the most personal information can be. 47% of americans had some kind of data stolen by hackers last year. a lot of that happened through big data breaches like the ashley madison one, but there are a whole variety of attacks hackers can undertake. i turned to one to take me inside what's at stake. >> that's really creepy. >> what? >> that's crazy. >> my name is ralph and i'm the ethical hacker and i special on breaking into systems to show how they're vulnerable. >> hollywood, home to breaches like the infamous sony hack and

a steady stream of tourists who can be a little too trusting of their technology. it's about cybersecurity. >> most people are very vulnerable and they don't really know it. >> what kind of things can you do to illustrate how vulnerable they are. >> caller id spoofing allows me to change the number you see is calling you. >> the mother is calling. >> mom is calling. >> hey, mom. that's really creepy. >> so if you got a call out of the blue from your mom's number, would you assume it's her? >> yeah. that's weird. >> you're getting a call? who's calling? what's up, pac man? >> and it's not just your cell phone that's at risk. >> the systems we use for water and power, things like health care as well as we are now seeing things like identity theft. >> you may be surprised how much can be compromised using nothing but google. take google dorken, using advanced search terms to access

specific file types like excel word sheets or documents, including files not intended for public viewing. >> you had a few minutes to find out everything about me digitally, what would you do? >> starting with the name, and once i got more information like an e-mail address or phone number, then i start digging through that. >> this is interesting. a log in for the white house movie theater. >> yeah. from 2013. we finally got the document from the white house opening and your name is in here. you are, and there's other information. >> there you go. i left a paper trail. >> exactly. all kinds of things. you can only imagine if we spent an hour doing this. >> the hacking business is really booming in the deep web. the parts that aren't indexed by search engines like google. you get there through a network of servers that conceals the user's identity and location. >> it's an anonymous location. >> are you coming from sweden based on the google ads there? >> yes. >> we're in sweden. >> that's what it looks like.

>> bolivian cocaine, classic cocaine. >> this is the menu of items. user name passwords, accounts into paypal, accounts into banks. >> all up for grabs on the deep web. >> ralph says the ways to protect yourself are very simple. exactly what you would expect, mika. harder passwords with a few more characters that aren't letters. it's not trusting e-mails and honestly, not trusting anything you see online. especially if you have an ashley madison account. >> if you use your credit card, like target and all these different hacks, those are real. how do you -- what about going -- >> the federal government has been hacked so much information. >> and that's going across borders, that's going to china, to russia. there have been cyberattacks that are really now part of diplomacy and even the supposedly small time hacked like ashley madison as we joke about, there's real credit card information, lives being

destroyed by this hack. >> anything you do online you should see basically as not private. is that fair? >> never ever anymore. >> thank you very much. >> fascinating. >> good to see you guys. up next, the star of 12 years a slave, chiwetel ejiofor joins us. he's got a look at his nigh film, z for zechariah where the last two men alive fight for the love of the last woman alive. that's something. we'll be right back. ♪ 800,000 hours of supercomputing time, 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights. whether it's building the world's most advanced satellite, the space station, or the next leap in unmanned systems. at boeing, one thing never changes. our passion to make it real. ♪

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get out of there. get out of there, quick! you need to get out of there. >> hold still. >> who are you? who are you? where are the others? >> who? >> where are the others? where are they? >> there are none. there's just me. you need to get out of the water, please. just -- you need to get out of the water, please. >> oh, my gosh. that was a look at the new post-apocalyptic drama "z for zechariah." joining us chiwetel ejiofor and the director, craig zobel. what was she saying? what's wrong with the water? >> it's contaminated. the valley itself is protected by the geographical reasons and air patterns and so on from the

sort of nuclear radioactive fallout, but the water that comes from outside the valley is not protected. he's in contaminated water. >> this is -- >> whoa. >> a great, great movie. great story that actually got changed a little bit. actually got changed a lot with just one move. >> correct. it comes from a book by robert c. o'brien who wrote in 1975, and the book only had two characters. and we kind of added a character. >> kind of added a character. two men fighting for the last woman alive. >> yes. >> that could be a little intense. >> it can be a little intense. yeah. i mean, john, who i play, is convinced he is the last guy. and she is the last girl for a while. and they develop this kind of relationship, friendship, relationship, burgeoning on something perhaps romantic and then all of that interrupted by the arrival of chris.

>> what is so compelling for all of us, whether it's books or whether it's movies about these sort of post-apocalyptic thrillers? these movies? because there's so many of them, and they're so compelling. >> i mean, i think at least for this one, for us, you know, the thought of kind of like what happens when you're alone, could i do that? could i survive by myself? not just like physically, but also emotionally, could i survive being alone? and exploring that as like interesting to people, i think. >> yeah, and whether you have, when things are gone, when systems of government, of justice, normalization of relationships, when they come back, what they mean in the film, race and religion also come back when there's three people. it becomes quite interesting in the post-apocalyptic landscape. you know, when things are relevant, i think that's why

we're constantly interested. >> give us a sense of the three characters. >> well, i play john, a scientist. he's, i think you saw there that he has developed with some other people this hazmat suit he's wearing in one of the sequences. he arrives thinking he's the only person on earth. on it is ann, and she is -- she's alone on the farm. she thinks, again, she's the last person, and they sort of have this burgeoning relationship, and then kaleb, who managed to asurvive, arrives. >> i saw this movie at sundance when you showed it. it's an incredible, great, fantastic movie. congratulations for making it. one of the things joe is talking about in terms of the post-apocalyptic thing. there are two kinds, the kind that is dystopian and the other that kind of has some note of optimism. this movie falls into the latter

category. talk about the strains of optimism, the things you wr just talking about in terms of the element of hope, about rebuilding out of the ashes. >> well, yeah. that's what they initially try to do. i mean, it's got both of those things. there is this element of hope, and i think that they strive initially in that kind of adam and eve context of it all to build on that and to rebuild. but then, you know, these sort of darker elements creep in when these two guys get locked into a sort of testosterone fueled aggression over her. >> there may be things that we would like to hope we could move beyond, sort of come back into the fold. >> and that is you're exactly right, what makes these so compelling, whether it's the road, or what's the denzel washington movie i have seen about 1,000 times where he was one of the last men alive? it really is.

it's so compelling. and this, again, john has just gone on and on and on about this. and you have survived working with john ridley. we haven't done so well. it's been emotionally crippling experience for us. but you survived, right? >> just about. >> just about, not really? >> he was like the founding father of "morning joe." >> how long ago was that? >> about eight years ago. >> can you believe that? >> a cheap date. you call him in l.a., he would leave his mansion, fly here, and wake up at 5:00 in the morning. and do it for three hours. and downhill ever since, but good for you. >> z for zechariah is in select theaters and on demand friday, august 28th. thank you so much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. up next, what if anything did we learn today? can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought.

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so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that. real help from real people. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. all right. >> time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned the impending joe biden versus trump election will be the greatest election ever. american history you have ever seen. >> oh, my gosh. >> please, god, please. >> so awesome. >> donald trump, jeb bush, side by side, technicolor versus black and white. >> pretty stunning. mika? >> we do have some news to end the show with. 10:00 this morning at the carter

center, president carter will be holding a news conference to address his condition. he had announced about a week or so that he has cancer. so we'll be watching for that. >> we'll also have dr dr. brzezinski's reflections on working in the carter white house tomorrow, and our thoughts and prayers certainly with jimmy carter and the entire family. >> if it's way too early, what time is it? >> "morning joe," but stick around. "the rundown" starts right now. morning to you. i'm jose diaz-balart. we start with breaking developme developments. overnight in washington state, three firefighters are dead. four more injured after a fast-moving wildfire took them near the small town of twisp. the governor confirmed in a news conference in a statement saying my heart breaks over the loss of life. the governor will travel later today to tour the damage caused by the massive fire still burning there. leanne gregg is at fire