well both of the -- bush called me one time. bush sr. call add me yesterday . our wives were on the telephone with them. president obama called, vice president called, clinton called, hillary clinton called, secretary of state called. first time they called me in a long time. that's really something. former president carter talking about his condition yesterday. i have so much warm feeling towards that man. i respect. so we wish him the best and hope to get down there. >> we really do. we need to get down there. and it's been such a great honor to have -- >> he's still doing bible study on sundays. >> it's great honor to have him up here. you know, he has bible studies

and is a sunday schoolteacher. it's a small clutch that just happens to get bigger every sunday. jimmy carter teaches the bible. >> we'll have much more on him a little bit later in the show. with us on set, we have jeremy peters, donny deutsche and eugene robinson. a lot to talk b i was going to give you the choice. i think i'll choose the story. >> okay. >> a federal judge says hillary clinton didn't follow federal government e-mail policy using the personal server for state department business. the judge said, "we wouldn't be here today if the employee had followed government policy." the judge even opened the possibility the fbi could expand its search to include e-mails clinton may have deleted. he also called on the fbi to

hand over to state any e-mails that recovers from the server not yet in the state department's possession. the hearing was spurred over questions of work at the same time for both the state department and in the private sector. clinton has long said she turned over all relevant documents. her campaign staff said that her use of a personal e-mail account was consistent with her predecessors and permissible under department policy at the time. >> wow. >> is it or isn't it? hillary clinton's staff says it was permissible under department policy s that true? >> no. that is not true. >> why do they keep saying something that is not true? >> there is a regulation that required that you had to keep your e-mails contained and preserved, especially for the purposes of foia at the agency. >> i believe she says it was

permissible essentially at the moment she set up the server. however, those 2009 regulations did come out. that's clearly what -- >> what do you mean by that? >> 2009 regulations came out after she set up the server. >> then you don't use the server because the regulation doesn't allow it, gene. >> exactly. i'm not arguing. >> gene is agreeing with you. >> so you're saying hillary clinton's staff is not telling the truth and hillary clinton is not telling the truth. >> they're arguing that at the time she made the decision to use the private e-mail server, it was not prohibited. that's what they're saying. >> right. so are you saying -- >> however, the rules did come out shortly thereafter that says you can't do it. >> permissible is one thing. proper and in good judgment is another. that's what we're talking about. >> permissible or proper -- >> this is beyond proper. >> thank you. >> this isn't just -- this is

proper or this is not political. the obama administration will tell you this was improper. it was wrong. and you have a federal judge who is continuing this and saying the fbi needs to dig deeper. and there are people starting to look at the u.s. code for first time and realize a few things. and that is that hillary clinton may be in some legal jeopardy personally. >> here's what i believe. i'm curious what the smart guys at the table think. i equate this to donald trump saying things about mondjohn mc. if you like hillary clinton, you turn away. if you don't like her, you go with this. i don't think it has a profound effect. >> donny, where have you been? >> i think at the end of the day -- force. >> her numbers are collapsing. >> if you're a hillary person, you're a hillary person f you're a trump person yushgs a trump person. i find more than ever people are staying in their lanes. and she's taking a hit. i think as time goes on, people

will just kind of go -- >> i'm trying to find if members of the media are in some ways hillary people. >> members of the media -- >> i don't think she would say that. >> really? >> i'm curious what you think about what i just said. >> i think there is truth in that. i talk to a lot of people that say this is nothing. this is trumped up against the clintons. nobody's talking about it. here's the thing though. the fbi and the federal courts are not academic institutions who are just doing this to expand the store of human knowledge. they investigate and they find stuff out. then they go to the next step. i think once this process is started, it doesn't -- when does it end? it doesn't just go away. and it does -- i do not think

her numbers are collapsing. i don't think you can say collapsing at all. but i think it has weakened her numbers especially with independents. >> it also has in a poll yesterday joe biden actually matched up better against republicans in general election contests than hillary clinton in pennsylvania, florida, i believe in ohio as well. >> i think it's more of a function that biden finally raised his head and it's a real option. the cnn poll, she wasn't having any erosion. >> i'll tell you, john heilemann, mark halperin -- >> they're punks, those guys. >> kacie hunt, can you you can the state. democrats at the iowa state fair, people that supported hillary clinton were all asking about this. what happened? i want to support her. i don't get this. why didn't she -- >> i'm that way. but just a lot of the texture i get -- >> wait. we have here two lines, the

beginning and the end of the story. you are tell me what is wrong with this picture. a federal judge says she did not follow government e-mail policy using her personal server for state department business. and at this hearing for the foi suit, the judged is we wouldn't be here if the employee had followed government policy. then we have her campaign staff saying that her use of a personal e-mail account was consistent with predecessors and permissible under department policy. is it or is it not permissible? i just want the answer. i don't want like lots of sentences around it. i just want the answer. >> do you follow a federal judge's opinion on the surface or your own knowledge of political ministers? >> i think it's helpful to think about this. i don't have an answer for you. >> she says it was permissible when she did it. when she started it. but the rule came out later and she -- force. >> she broke it.

>> so she broke it. the federal judge said she did not do it properly. >> right. there were questions from the very beginning about whether or not this was in line. >> i'm asking you. he says it's impermissible. >> okay. fine. he says that, sure. i'm not arguing whether it was permissible. all i'm trying to figure out is what donny is saying which is, okay, how does this affect her politically? >> it's not going to hurt you to say, yes, the federal judge that works day in and day out who follows the law and reads the law, it's his job to interpret the law says that she imper misbly used e-mail. can you not just say -- you're saying i don't know. >> it's a question of how it affects the populous. >> no. >> it's a question of how a reporter for "the new york times" -- >> don't challenge "the new york

times"! don't challenge "the washington post"! >> do you want me to indict hillary clinton? i'm not going to do that. >> no. >> we have people on here that you try to get very specific with these lies that clinton's people keep spinning every single day. this is the reason that -- >> the point is the clinton lies worked for 20 years and doesn't affect them. >> i just want reporters by reporters to come on. you have a federal judge saying she did not follow e-mail policy. >> yeah. >> true or false, jeremy peters, reportser from "the new york times." >> that is the story from the beginning. >> i'm asking you. >> they continue to lie to you. >> i think the story now is what donny was talking about which is how -- i think it's helpful to look at this from the perspective of an ad maker f

you're a republican ad maker, how do you turn this? >> let me tell you right now, the investigators for the fbi that are circling around and seeing whether she did what david petraeus did, which by the way he got busted for having classified material in his possession wrongfully or sending it wrongfully that was not marked. >> that was to his girlfriend. >> that's what the fbi is saying. they're saying right now, what would donny deutsche think? no, they're not. >> you don't know. trust me. >> jeremy reports. he is an objective reporter. >> jeremy, don't bite. >> i'm not. i'm not letting -- i'm not trying to make you squirm. it's like bob woodward comes on here and says something clearly that is not straight. >> bob woodward has a lot more

credibility than i do. >> right. >> i'm going to move on to donald trump now. >> i'm not going to ask that. there is lots of news. let's go to donald trump. >> you two. >> let's call donald. why don't we call him right now to see what he is doing. >> i talk to him every day. >> i know you do. does he ever get pro active calls? i know he is watching right now. he has frosty os right now. we should call him. >> do you have his new number? >> i don't have his new number, no. >> in a few hours, alabama is hosting the largest event so far of the 2016 campaign. >> donald trump is xbeexpecting about 35,000 people at a rally in mobile. >> it's mobile, alabama. >> it's taking place at a stadium which is home to the university of south alabama jaguars. crews are removing one of the goal posts to accommodate a stage for the republican front-runner. the event comes as trump looks

beyond iowa and new hampshire. while his blunt style may seem like an unlikely fit in the south, trump says he is not surprised by the enthusiasm. >> what happened is we took a hotel like a ballroom that held 1,000 people. and the company, the hotel company calls up and says we're getting swamped. we don't have enough room for. this they took another one that was larger. then i believe they went to your convention center. i think it holds 10,000 people. within a few minutes we were wiped out of that one. we were way over. and then they end up going to your stadium because that's the stadium. that was the only thing that could hold it. and it's become like a happening. it's become an event and a real happening. they know they're not going to be ripped anymore. and they're smart people. and they know what's going on. they know how ignorant our

government has been in trade, in vets, they do such a poor job. i think that's why you have the crowd and why it polled so well in alabama. >> and this morning's usa today looks at what trump's long term campaign strategy may be. the plan includes consolidating the leads in the polls and sweeping iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. the campaign then plans to ride that momentum to the nomination relying on first time voters and those fed up with the status quo. >> and, of course, right after that, jeremy peters, the so-called sec primary in the deep south. donald trump is -- i mean donald trump is beating jeb bush and marco rubio easily in florida. he's ahead in alabama. his crowds have always been up in south carolina. he's always had good crowds in south carolina. his style obviously does fit in pretty snugly with the deep south. >> i would encourage you to read "the new york times" this

weekend. >> i always do. >> we have a story coming out that is going to draw some pretty surprising conclusions about the durability and longevity of donald trump's coalition. and what we've done is look at the poll numbers. we've interviewed dozens of people and did focus groups of our own almost. and we found that his strength almost across every single republican demographics is incredibly strong. now that ultimately could be the undoing of his candidacy because it's very easy to fragment a group that large. but for the time being, there's no sign that this strength is going to fade. >> and donald trump is like godzilla, as you said, gene robinson. what doesn't kill him makes him stronger. i did notice this again. there are always defining moments in campaigns. certainly for me if trump continues, the defining moment was a few nights ago.

a real skeptic called him one of the greatest communicators in republican history. i think he said something along those lines. i sat there. mika called me up and said oh, my god, turn on trump. i swhaed channaid what channel? she says turn on trump. they said we're already watching. everybody that she -- >> my daughter carly was watching. >> my brother is watching. i get the sense watching that that the establishment and the republicans and the media had donald trump on his heels sort of staggering around like a punch boxer in that first fox debate. and he admitted it. he said went out there. the first question, holy cow! i was just thinking watching him the other night, that's the

first and last time they're going to sneak up on donald trump. can you see the armor going up around him. >> he's not a stupid guy. right? he's a smart guy. >> i think that is new information. >> the idea that is 25% or whatever is the absolute ceiling which seems to be the story that the establishment is telling itself now. what's the empirical proof for that? >> a month and a half ago, trump wasn't going to be relevant. >> and the mccain thing was going to hill him. the megyn kelly thing was going to kill him. >> people say he's only going to get 25%. we heard three weeks ago he's not going to run well against democrats. there is no way he can ever get elected. we heard, through two quarters -- two-thirds of the republicans can't stand the guy.

now those numbers have changed. now he's ahead of hillary in the most important swing states. i'm with you. that 25%, that's not his ceiling. >> one thing in talking to supporters of his at these rallies which i've done for the past two weeks now is i asked them, okay, every time donald trump says something outrageous in the immediate what, what do you think? and they almost unanimously say keep it up. keep doing it, donald. we love his outrageousness. they're supporting him because of the outrageous things he says. it's like this political catharsis for him. he's saying something that they can't say themselves. >> to that point, let me ask you a gut question. there is no evidence. clearly he's very self-aware of his brand. he's very on point. >> always has been. >> now clearly a lot of the votes are politician stupid. dwoenlt like politicians. is there though a point where particularly when you close the

curtain and that you kind of have to vote for not what you don't want but for what you want that there is this mechanism that kicks in with people? i love what he says, but -- and there's a fear factor. >> they're going to vote for whom though? >> i was going to say -- if you get to that -- >> and nobody at this point has given them that alternative. >> is there somebody, i love donald but this guy, this woman, she's really a strong leader. i think that's a safer bet. right now that seems unlikely. the second thing is it depends on outside circumstances. if isis starts beheading americans every three days, if the market crashes, i mean, if there seems to be chaos in the world, people won't -- may not be as willing to be taking a

chance with donald trump. i always said bill clinton would have never gotten elected in 1990 when the soviet union was still the soviet union. he got elected in 1992 for a reason. bui but we did not elect people like bill clinton during the cold war. >> you're absolutely right. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," joe sits down with one of jimmy carter's closest aides as the former president battles cancer. we'll hear from dr. brzezinski. and jim webb will join the table. up next, senator ted cruz, the best hope to dethrone donald trump. we'll look at his secret plan to top trump.

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not the other way around.

there's a big difference between donald trump and me. i'm a proven conservative with a record. he doesn't. i cut taxes every year. he proposed the largest tax increase in man kind's history, not just our own country's history. i've been consistently pro-life, he, until recently, was for partial birth abortion. he's been a democrat longer than being a republican. i fought for republican and conservative causes all of my adult life. i just think when people get this narrative, whatever the new term is, the compare and contrast narrative, then they're going to find that i'm going to be the guy that they're going to vote for. >> governor, you -- >> he is losing in florida. people start realizing we need to win, it will look a lot better. >> by the way, donny, that is jeb getting worked up. he's saying a bit more passion what he said the night before.

that's what he has to say every single day. i don't know fit will work. >> here's the reality, he worked up versus trump, he still looks like he is asleep. >> which trump will tell you gladly. >> he said that other night. he said jeb is an incredibly low energy guy. it's very hard for him to get energy. he got under jeb's skin. >> okay. but what does jeb need to do to sort of deflect? you showed me yesterday an example. like immediately what you would do. >> i was noticing at the town hall meeting he was going through and explaining everything. and at one point in one of my campaigns i got frustrated because a guy that had been a democrat his whole life and liberal switched to the republican party. it was simple. you just go listen, i don't care. if you want to vote for a liberal, i don't really care. he's a liberal. he's done this, this, this, maybe you like that. if i were jeb, maybe you like a guy that supports partial birth

abortions one day and the next day -- maybe you like that. if you do, god bless you. maybe you like single pair health care. maybe you want your health care to be like sweden, norway, i don't know where they have single pair health care, but if that's what you like instead of a health care system like i like which actually believes that the free market should have something to do with it, then that's fine. isn't america great? you got a guy can you vote for. vote for single pair health care. and vote for an entertainer. and vote for partial birth abortion. that's your call. if that's your republican party, that's cool. democracy is great though. >> a little boring. but, hey, you can vote for me. >> jeb should say that, too. >> that's interesting. >> i know i'm not -- i know i don't look like donald trump with that hair. and thank god. i know i had a reality show.

i know i didn't write a book 40 years ago that i talk about every day. i know i don't go around -- i know i'm a little pastry. i know i have dentist glasses. but let me tell you something, maybe i look like a dentist. maybe i'm boring. i will tell you what, i will look like a dentist and i will be boring sitting behind the most important desk in america if you let me and i will veto every tax bill that nancy pelosi sends my way. and if somebody in the congress supports partial birth abortion and the bill passes through it and it gets to my desk, boring me with my dentist glasses, guess what? you don't have to ask what the boring pastry big looking guy behind the desk is going to do. i'm going to veto that bill. but what will donald trump do? i don't know. maybe he'll have a reality show to make you laugh. that's what he's got to do.

he has to be self deprecating. >> and take trump's strengths and turn them into weakness. what you just said actually, you don't say a lot of smart things. you say mostly unsmart things. but you're consistent. that's why i love you. but that is it. you just basically say, you know what? i'lli be on the state of the union at 8:00. if you want to watch trump on the "dating game," he'lli be on at 9:00. >> that is a strategy. very well done. alex's dad is a dentist. he is very insulted. >> hey! hey! my kid's grandfather is a dentist. >> i still have to get my teeth fixed. joining us from seattle -- >> i have to get braces. >> every time you talk about her teeth, she goes like this.

>> i know. the whole thing is a mess. never mind. we digress. >> it was a very long summer. cindy brady didn't have this. >> i tried inside braces. outside braces. >> joining us now, the chief white house correspondent for "politico," michael en. you have new numbers out of the political pacts ockets of iowa new hampshire. if the jeb bush group is in trouble, what did you find? >> happy friday! >> yes! >> the world is safe. >> all right. >> our poll of insiders in new hampshire and iowa, one of the questions this week about whether or not you're worried about jeb. and especially in new hampshire which jeb bush is really

dependent on. iowa would be a bonus for him. he definitely is going to play there. but he has to do well or win in new hampshire. and what our inside tlerz are telling us is that he has a relevance problem. what we heard after the debate, people aren't talking about jeb bush. people are either talking about trump or new hampshire as you guys know, tons of conversation about the ohio governor john kasich. so jeb bush needs to get on the radar in the conversation and he did that this week the way so many of the candidates have and that is to attack trump. to talk about trump. very fascinating in "the washington post" talked to mike murphy who is running the super pac supporting jeb. mike murphy threw the post, sending the message to jeb campaign headquarters in miami, don't attack trump. that's a losing strategy. just stick to what you're saying and we can fight trump later. >> wow. that's interesting. >> you know what's interesting

though? trump's attacks have a lot more staying power than i ever would have guessed. he has a way of making the person who is fighting look small. he did this to rand paul during the debate. i just think that it is a losing strategy to start attacking him. >> but do this thing which joe said, defining your service. it's not like saying -- like almost in a very charming way. >> trump has done the defining. he has defind the other candidates as, you know, boring politicians who are not going to do anything. >> and say he's right. you know, donald is right, i am boring. >> you do it with self deprecation and laugh at yourself. other people start thinking, wait a second. >> that's it. >> "politico" also has a story out on ted cruz's attempt to cut into trump's anti-establishment support. what is that campaign plan?

>> jeremy davis had an intrig intriguing sneak peek of the "times" story coming this weekend looking into the trump coalition. we're going to see there that trump coalition looks very similar to how a cruz one might look. very conservative. very anti-establishment. so cruz is saying i'm going to be the last conservative standing. when trump flares out and nobody knows how that's going to happen and commentary and press is all filled this morning with speculation about how that's going to happen, nobody knows. but when trump flames out, cruz wants to be ready. so he is in iowa and in southern states being very methodical about building endorsements with grassroots activists, putting some on staff. in iowa, he'll have a pastor in each of the 99 counties to run a faith based coalition. so whatever happens to the donald, cruz will be one of the final candidates left to deal with it. >> you know, it's interesting. that's what you should do.

that's playing by the rules. that's being smart, gene ron robinson. to go around quietly while everybody is paying attention to donald trump and building your support because you never know what's going to happen. >> it's really two primaries. it's the establishment and outsider primary. >> right. >> if you figure trump may go away, cruz is trying to position hum self to be the outsider guy, to be the conservative guy, the true blue guy against jeb bush or whoever else it is. he figures he has a good shot. >> the question is, mika, whether in 2016 campaign whether playing by the rules and doing all the things that worked in the past is going to have any impact whatsoever because trump's mega phone is so big. >> it is. >> was the john heilemann story yesterday -- >> incredible. it was incredible. >> what was the story?

>> did you hear this? so john heilemann was out at the iowa state fair and he was following hillary. he said this massive sort secret service people and police officers and hanger onners and new york like political types. and there are like 100 of them. they're moving through the crowd. >> and people wanting to meet the candidate. everybody was gathered around. and right as she went up to the fried corn dog stand, the helicopter and flew right over and john said it was really telling. as it flew over, everybody at the same time looked up in the air and they all whispered, it's batman! no, they all whispered, trump. >> i love the smell of napalm. >> but he said in that moment,

that was like a moment of how compelling he is as a candidate. he is from another world than washington, d.c. >> mike allen, thank you. yes, he is batman if you heard him tell the story. all right. >> i like whether he is asked, are you batman at the iowa state fair? he is like, why yes i am. >> coming up, why one republican strategist says the party will make or break its future with donald trump as a candidate. we have the must read opinion pages.

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with us now for the must read op-ed political consultant and founder of purple strategies, alex castalanos. thank you for being with us. >> yes. you look cute. >> did you shop together? >> i got the uniform. so you've been very fascinating to read over the last month or two. and your views changed on trump. that's what i found so compelling the other night. i was watching to see what you said. it was one of the cases -- a lot of times people watch and say what did joe and mika and the panel think? i was doing that with you. i said okay, did i just see something pretty remarkable

here? and then when you answered, as a skeptic, previous skeptic, i said yeah, i think i did. >> i was wrong. it happens. you know, rarely, but i -- >> maybe rarely for you but not rarely for me. >> unless i'm home. i thought trump would be contained. you were talking about the 25%. other people said he would collapse. i said, no, that's not going anywhere. the republican party is angry. we're angry about washington. i thought the fire would burn but burn there. what started as an anti-washington campaign has a second stage. and that is that we actually like him campaign. so now we're seeing the beginnings of that. how far it goes, don't know. >> yeah. so what should the republican party think? a republican party that looks awfully old and awfully out of touch every time donald trump gets on stage. >> well, jeremy, you were saying that why cast a small vote when

can you cast a big vote? when you think your country is going down the tubes, you don't want incremental change. here comes this bright peacock, you know, with very brightly colored feathers, at the end though i think what his strength is his weakness. because if donald trump goes wild and blows a real estate deal, he loses dural country club or the postffice building. but if he blows our relationship with the soviet union, that's world war iii. does he have that stability and character? we don't know yet. he's not a republican. he's not a conservative. he's kind of a -- what we know about him is he's a guy that is hungry for power in business. and now it seems in politics, too. he wants more power in washington to deport 11 million people and their children and take away their american citizenship. he kind of likes single payer. this doesn't sound so good. >> if that's the case, why can't

jeb bush, it seems to me, this should be an easy target. you know jeb. i know jeb. we were in florida for eight years with jeb as governor. he was a strong, powerful, assertive governor. i must say i don't recognize the jeb that i'm seeing on the campaign trail right now. >> i'm looking at your face. i don't think do you either. >> yeah, what's the deal? >> is he being overmanaged? >> i wonder if time stopped when he was last elected. the republican party was popular. george bush was popular. it was a -- he was a young prince, valiant in a way. the ideas guy. the world has moved along and right now you don't get the sense that jeb has grown it with. here's got news for jeb, campaign dozen not pick candidates. they make candidates. >> exactly. >> and they're testing. they stumble, they fall, some pick themselves up and grow in front of our eyes. jeb needs that moment. and maybe donald trump is the

guys that going to make the entire field better. they're going to have to post up against it. >> you're right. and jeb could be made much better by donald trump. we'll see. >> i wonder, alex, what you think about the effect offer hispanic voters here. look, for all of the comedy that is donald trump and how entertaining he is, he says some things that people find deeply offensive and hurtful as it comes to latinos, immigrants. that's not helpful. >> you will bring up the anchor baby. jeb bush follows. >> that is as much the problem as i have to carry my passport with me at all times now just to prove my citizenship. i'd like to hang around here. it is scary if you're a hispanic and you hear that kind of language from the republican party. but that's trump. trump is unique. he is not a republican as we were talking about. if he does not win, if does he not capture the nomination, then

he takes that with him. he'll be defeated by the anti-trump. and i think there will be an opportunity for a bit of a cleansing, washing the laundry. and you can see a better republican party come out of this. >> alex -- >> republicans all crowd over trump. >> we'll see. alex, you're going to stay with us. up next, we're going to bring in jim webb. we'll be right back. 40% of the streetlights in detroit, at one point, did not work. you had some blocks and you had major thoroughfares and corridors that were just totally pitch black. those things had to change. we wanted to restore our lighting system in the city. you can have the greatest dreams in the world, but unless you can finance those dreams, it doesn't happen. at the time that the bankruptcy filing was done, the public lighting authority had a hard time of finding a bank. citi did not run away from the table like some other bankers did. citi had the strength to help us go to the credit markets and raise the money.

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joining us now, former u.s. senator from virginia, jim webb. great to you have back on the show. >> good morning. >> how is everything going? >> doing all right. >> okay. >> being careful right now. >> so, senator, why should you be elected president of the united states? >> i that i when -- just watching your show here, you see how much attention is going on into the hysterical side of the political campaign right now. americans are very frustrated

with the basic political system, the leadership as poll after poll has shown. that's why you're seeing so much attention to donald trump and trump is doing a great job dominating the shows. i was on cnn last night, same thing. 25 out of 30 minutes was on donald trump and then had bernie sanders on the other side who is a great friend. he's getting large crowds. >> why is that? >> pretty soon i think the electoral process has to calm down and they got to -- it may not be boring. they want competence. they want inclusnclusiveness. they want leadership that can solve our problems. i wanted to add my respect to president carter this morning. if you look back at the polls, labor day 1975, only 5% of the people in the country even knew his name. and within a year he become elected president. people are looking for a different kind of leader than

the -- and what a hysteria back in that 1975 period. >> right. >> so how do you breakthrough? how do you do what jimmy carter was able to do? how do you do what obama was able to do and that is shock washington, d.c., in a political class? >> i think the most important thing to do right now is to stay calm and get out and talk to people. talk about the things that we did during the time i was in the senate and also in other periods. >> what did you do? >> we led the pivot to asia. we spent a lot of time on foreign policy issues. we talked about the economic fairness issues from the very beginning. i led criminal justice reforms. it's a very hot topic now. i started talking about this when i was running for the senate and in virginia, as you might imagine, people are telling me we were committing political suicide talking about our broken criminal justice system. we brought a constituent groups from all across the political spectrum to the table, brought that issue out of the shadows

where we can discuss it. basically what we did, by the way, we passed the greatest gi bill in history by developing a leadership model to work across the aisle to get democrats together. so the idea is stay calm. be inclusive. show that you can do things. work across the aisle. let's really work to solve the problems that people are so emotional about right now. >> i want to ask you how you address the issue of wages and what is your opinion on raising the minimum wage? >> in terms of wages at large, i think we have two separate problems. one is the almost disappearing of our manufacturing base and competitiveness in emerging economies where they can produce these products a lot cheaper and our corporations have been got. so the way to address that, i think, is to lower the corporate tax rate and incentivize the companies to come back and rebuild our manufacturing sector

to the extent that we can. the second problem that we have in the american working economy is that the working model for younger americans has been shifting into contracting work. part time work where people don't get medical care. they don't get retirement benefits. and that's really hurting the ability of people in the working environment to move forward. those are two issues that really need to be addressed. >> alex? >> senator, is there room in the democratic party today for jim webb? the democratic party just banned thomas jefferson when he said all men are created equal. they hooted bernie sanders off the stage for not being left enough. is there room for you? >> i think that's a question that i face every day while i'm out talking to people. my belief is that in politics addition is better than subtraction and we should be including people. going back more to the economic

base that has been a model for the democratic party and also through the economic base being able to address issues like the race issues and these sorts of things. that's where bernie sanldeders right. talking about how the economic inequalities affected all the other areas that we're talking about. >> gene robinson has a question for you. >> senator, what is your path geographically? do you believe you'll do well in the southern states? do you believe you have a chance in the big democratic strong holds? what's your geographic path to the nomination? >> i think we can be competitive everywhere. the challenge that we have right now is in the current political environment money dominates the process like it never has before. i think there is something like 400 people who have contributed half of all the money that goes into presidential campaigns this

year. you're looking at a situation where i said i don't believe that super pacs are ethically supportable concept. people will say this now who are running will say if i'm elected we'll get a constitutional amendment. we'll do something about the citizens united case or right now we'll take the money. and that money is really screwing up the political process. it's affecting our ability to get out and talk. we're going to do it anyway. the model would be to get the message out that we want inclusive leadership. we want people who have shown they can work across the aisle, bring people together. we have done. that we did it constantly whether i was in the senate. and let's solve the problems. let's listen to everyone and solve the problems. >> jeremy? >> if you were still in the senate, would you vote for this iran deal, yes or no and why not? >> i would not. and i've said that with all due respect to people that i do respect that have supported it. i believe the danger in the iran

agreement is in what it does not address and that is other than nuclear issues, that allow iran to continue to gain a greater balance of the power in a very fragile region. it affects israel. it affects the sunni countries. it's one of the reasons i oppose the invasion of iraq, by the way. we were going to shift the balance of power too much toward iran. and that is still there. we've had no signals from iran through this whole process, no confidence builders is what we used to call it when i was in the pentagon, that would indicate that iran is ready to move forward in a different way in the region. so i think you can vote against this. the congress can't amend it and then send it back and have people look at it again. i think it should have been with the congress in the first place. >> jim webb, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> good to have you on the show. >> coming up, we'll look at another democratic kacandidate,

senator bernie sanldeders and h elevator pitch for socialism. we'll be right back.

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coming up at the top of the hour, more problems for hillary clinton and her e-mail scandal. what a federal judge is accusing her of doing and why the fbi may take an expanded role in the investigation. plus, how donald trump is moving the goal posts, literally, for what could be the largest vent so far of the 2016 race.

and, the huffington post editorial director will join us. he's going to defend -- >> this is going to be fun. >> he's going to defend standing by their decision to cover trump only in the entertainment section. okay. keep it right here on "morning joe." i hate cleaning the gutters. have you touched the stuff? it's evil. and ladders. sfx: [screams] they have all those warnings on 'em. might as well say... 'you're gonna die, jeff.' you hired someone to clean the gutters. not just someone. angie's list helped me find a highly rated service provider to do the work at a fair price. ♪ everyone can shop, but members get more with reviews, live customer support, and better pricing. visit angieslist.com today.

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>> camels on the beach, an eight ball. why not? >> donny? i could live my whole life and never do that and be just absolutely better off. oh, god. the meantal image is not good. >> if you're walking on the beach in ab why you dabi. >> joe and i in our trunks. >> oh, come on! all right. >> is that what you call swimsuits in the hamptons? trunks? >> yeah. >> eugene robinson is still us with, thank god. alex castellanos is with us as well with great facial expressions. donny deutsche is here. and from washington, moderator of "meet the press," chuck todd, editor of "the fix" at the "washington post" chris alizza is here as well. >> we have a lot to talk b let's talk about what happens in a

couple hours. >> oh, my gosh, what a day it's going to be in alabama in just a few hours. the state that will host what could be the largest event so far of the 2016 campaign is getting ready for donald trump. he's expecting about 35,000 people at a rally tonight in mobile. it's taking place at the stadium which is home to the university of south alabama jaguars. crews are removing one of the goal posts to accommodate a stage for the republican frontrunner. symbolic, moving the goal post. the vent comes as trump looks beyond iowa and new hampshire while his blunt style may seem like an unlikely fit in the south, donald trump says he is not surprised by the enthusiasm. >> what happened is we took the hotel like a ballroom that held 1,000 people and the company, the hotel company calls us up and says we're getting swamped. we don't have enough room for this. and they then took another one that was larger. then another one. and then they went to i believe

the convention center. i think it holds 10,000 people. within a few minutes we were wiped out of that one. we were way over. and then they end up going to your stadium because that's the stadium because that is the only thing that could hold it. it's become like a happening. it's become an event. they know they're not going to be ripped anymore. and they're smart people. they know what's going on. they know how ignorant our government has been in trade in, taking care of the vets, they do such a poor job. and so many different ways. i think that's probably why you have the crowd and that's probably why they poll sod well in alabama. >> this morning's usa today looks at what trump's long term campaign strategy may be. the plan includes consolidating the leads in the polls and sweeping iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina. the campaign then plans to ride that momentum to the nomination relying on first time voters and

those fed up with the status quo. >> let's go to clubbihuck todd. that is like a cleanup litter sayi -- hitter to say my strategy is to hit a grand slam. when you're as far ahead as donald trump is in some of those states and you're cleaning up in the south, you suddenly, you know, if he can consolidate the leads he has right now, this nomination fight will be over very quickly. we're six months away. i understand that. i'm just saying for people that say that's a joke, that's how they're looking at it. well, consolidate all your money in the first three races where you're already ahead and suddenly your field of 87 becomes a field of two. >> what do they say? i talk to many republicans this week who i think are going through different stages of grief. and i'm noting acceptance that is starting to creep in about the idea of trump as the potential nominee. not full acceptance but this idea that it could happen.

i think his strategy if, he's looking for a strategy, the strategy should be whatever it takes to keep this field as large as it is. as long as 30 to 35% is a winning number, then, yes, he can sweep all of these states. he can go in and all this. the questions are what happens when this is a three, four, five person race? >> right. >> i it this larger the field, the better off for trump. by the way, strategy wise, look, the march 1 primary states, ted cruz has been campaigning in them. kasich earlier this week got the endors endorsement of the governor of alabama y is balabama getting s much ascension in they're part of sec tuesday. then the next big contests are going to be texas, alabama, mississippi, tennessee. you start looking at different ones. already it feels as if alabama has been circled as sort of the most competitive of those sec tuesday states.

>> and chris alizza, which brings us to tonight, there's a reason why donald trump is going down to mobile, alabama. there's a reason why him getting 20, 25, 30,000 people in a football stadium has such a significant impact on the way the other candidates look at this race. >> i think he is pushing to get as many people there as possible. he knows that a spectacle like this is sort of daunting. he had 35,000 people in mobile, alabama, on a friday night. how many other republican candidates could do that? the answer is none. >> right. >> like we know. that i don't know if you can probably take about ten of them. could they altogether get 35,000? probably not. so the trump show is sort of operating at a different level. i point back to earlier this week in new hampshire. you know, jeb bush is there and donald trump is. there jeb bush is holding a traditional town hall. 150 people, largely older folks. donald trump is holding the circus that follows him

everywhere. tons of media, tons of people you don't typically see at republican events. what gets covered and what swamps -- the trump event, obviously. he's going to dominate and have a big crowd. it's going to be a big crowd. it will be a big story. >> donald trump's recent use of the term anchor babies, i know you heard this right, to describe children born in the u.s. to undocumented immigrants has set off a firestorm over whether that term is offensive or not. but on this issue at least trump and jeb bush seem to agree. he used the term in a radio interview on wednesday and is defending his choice of words. >> there's abuse, if people are bringing -- pregnant women are coming in to have babies simply because they can do it, then there ought to be greater enforcem enforcement. that is the legitimate side of. this greater enforcement so you don't have the anchor babies

coming into the country. >> you used the term anchor babies on the radio. >> no i didn't. i don't. >> you don't regret it? >> no, do you have a better term? >> i'm asking you. >> you give me a better term and i'll use it. serious. >> governor -- don't yell at me behind my ear though. >> sorry about that. >> is that language, anchor baby, is that not bombastic? >> no, give me another word. >> that's like a -- that's not another word. look, here's the deal. what i said is it's commonly referred to that. that's what i said. i didn't use it as my own language. what we ought to do is protect the 14. you want to get to the policy for a second? i think that people born in this country ought to be american citizens. okay. now we got that overwith. >>al snechl. >> -- alex? >> he looked good for jeb bush. >> he does. >> i don't think it was a good moment. >> here's the deal with jeb bush. people that know jeb and work for jeb and voted for jeb

several times will tell you jeb can be cranky. and jeb always -- one thing with jeb is, hey, you know, he's always awkward up there. i'm just not sure that jeb doesn't need to show the real jeb in the age of trump. by the way, i'll say it again. i know donald will disagree. jeb's always been the smartest guy in the room. he's a bright guy. but not this time. he needs to start being himself. >> i think that's -- i think you're grasping. all right. >> trump is a strong guy. >> yes. >> right now when your country is falling apart, you want strength. >> alpha. >> that's his appeal. >> i wouldn't even use cranky. >> you're talking about jeb? >> really? you're grasping. >> no, we're not grasping. >> he said what else you would like me to say? he goes like that's -- it's

descriptive. at least there was a guy who is punching in there. >> by the way, punching back to the press. answer your question. i'm sorry, i think -- >> it never hurts you to punch at the press, right? we're the most hated people in america. >> no comment. >> i thought he looked kind of cranky and irritable and like he got up on the wrong side of the bed. maybe if you think that helps him, maybe that helps him. i didn't think it did. >> i think it helps him -- anything that makes him look less like a politician and more like a person that he is at his core, i think that helps him. >> hillary clinton was quick to wa weigh into the debate. she sweeted how about babies or children or american citizens? and florida senator marco rubio was himself -- >> what a beautiful american citizen you are.

>> and she tweets. come on. >> oh, my god. >> that american citizen looks just like you. >> that's a whole other issue. oh, my lord. what's going on? >> my american citizen is 5 pounds 11 ounces. >> just say babies. >> yes. >> this would have been a good time for her to go on camera and say it. marco rubio was born in the u.s. before his parents became citizens also weighed in on camera yesterday. >> stand up and say hey, stop. we're going down a road as a party and ch is not good. >> and we've done. that i use, for example, when i talk about 13 million people in this country, say 13 million human beings. it reminds people that -- >> anchor babies. people are talking about anchor babies. >> those are human beings. ultimately, they're people. they're not just statistics. they're human beings with stories. >> was that a bomb fish? >> that might have been the pub we were in. >> could have been.

or student lounge. >> you're so bad. stop. >> i thought it looked like the hunt and fish club in ozark park. >> stop it. >> a locker room. >> come on now. i thought it was the right way to put it on camera and confront it. a federal judge says hillary clinton did not follow government e-mail policy in using the personal server for state department business. at a hearing over a freedom of information lawsuit, the judge said "we wouldn't be here today if the employee had followed government policy." the employee in this case is the secretary of state, right? >> yes. >> the judge even opened the possibility, the fbi could expand the search to include e-mails clinton may have dele d deleted. he also called on the fbi to hand over to state any e-mail thez recover from the server not yet in the state department's possession. the hearing was spurred over questions of the work at the same time for both the state

department and in the private sector. clinton has long said she turned over all relevant documents. her campaign staff have said that her use of a personal e-mail account was consistent with her predecessors and permissible under department policy at the time. >> which, of course, is simply not true. and runs completely counter to what the federal judge said yesterday. and chuck todd this is just one of those political -- i don't know if we call them scandals, dustup, controversies that just won't go away for the candidate. usually something explodes politically and everybody hunkers down and then they're like let's give it two, three, four days to pass by. there is a snowball rolling down the hill. it just seems to keep rolling down more every day. >> can i just say the campaign is doing this. they're parsing the words so carefully. they're being -- they're trying to say well there wasn't a federal law, right? so they're using -- they're

picking words very carefully. regulation versus love, versus politics. they're trying to sort of gum this up for the masses a little bit. but the fact of the matter is the federal judge said what he did. the fbi is doing what it's doing. there's not an r next to the fbi. there's not an r next to the federal judge. they can't just put this up on house republicans as they hope to and turn this into a partisan thing. i think the legal parsing of words that they're trying so hard to do is just feeding this old narrative of clinton world. by the way, very quickly, i think watching rubio and bush handle this term, i can't believe i'm saying this. i'm shocked that it's rubio and not jeb that is thinking about the general over the primary. that's all -- one thing -- that was to me very striking. you had marco rubio thinking about what it would sound like in a general lection.

jeb bush, the guy who said he was only thinking about how he would run his primary campaign as opposed to a general did something that feels good in a primary but might not feel so good in a general. >> chris alizza, what we're talking about the parsing of words and 2015's version of the meaning of is is, i think chuck is right. they're parsing everything. like, for instance, you go back and look at her press conference where she talks about the e-mails that were deleted. never once does she say that she made the decision of what e-mails to delete. it was my lawyers, my staff, my whatever. it's very general. she will never say, because we know -- we know from the fact that every press conference she talks about she pushes it off on somebody else who deleted the e-mails. that we know she did look at the e-mails. at the same time, she then comes back and says i can guarantee you personally that there were

no classified e-mails in there. no, she can't. she's telling us she had nothing to do with the selection and deletion of the e-mails. all of this parsing just doesn't add up to a story that even the press can buy. >> no. the problem is -- let's put the e-mail legality aside which is a big problem. let's put it aside for political purposes. the big problem here is what chuck is talking about. it plays in -- do i think the average person knows? okay, well, she used a private e-mail account and that was exclusive and no one -- no secretary of state had only ever used a private e-mail account and private e-mail server. no, they don't know that. what do they know? this feels like the kind of story they didn't like about the last time the clintons were in office which is the paranoia, the believing that rules don't apply to them, the surrounding themselves with people who no one said you know what,

secretary clinton? let's set up the state department e-mail. let's just set it up because let's not just have a private e-mail server. >> alex? >> when you have a catchup stain on your shirt, you have to wash it. get it behind you. >> see, joe? i told you. >> you don't parse words. you don't say that is terrible. that was a huge mistake. >> thank you. >> do you what you have to and get past it. >> you say you're sorry. >> why doesn't she address this? >> i want you to come back. the outfit she is wearing. now say -- >> i'm going to pour water on you. >> just look at what she is wearing. orange. dressed like -- >> i want you to stop before this goes all over you. >> i'm with donny. i didn't say it zblich. >> i wouldn't wear an orange jump suit. >> oh, my gosh. >> i wish you would wear a orange jump suit. >> i would if it had the feds

looking at me closer. thank you. do not throw water. chuck todd, "meet the press." it was wonderful. donald is right. it was the biggest ever. it was huge. >> it was huge. >> what are you doing this sunday? >> car lee fiorina and -- i think this is big moment for her. >> yes. >> chuck, i'm available sunday also, buddy. >> oh, god. still ahead on "morning joe" -- just leave. >> the great donny deutsche. i'll see alex on sunday, too. >> oh, good. excellent. all right. he's been leading the polls for a month, so why is donald trump only in the huffington post entertainment section snt website's editorial director will join us with their defense and also ahead, the legacy of jimmy carter's presidency. we'll look at that and much more after his revealing and moving news conference. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service? exactly.

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joining us now is the host of steve cronacky. in washington, jamel bowie. and in minneapolis, contributor to the "new york times" magazine, anna marie cox. she interviewed bernie sanders for the new issue which we'll get to in a moment. great to have you all on. jamel, trump-sanders, are there major similarities? what's the big picture in your estimate? >> i think the big picture, i wouldn't directly compare trump and sanders. i didn't get two different phenomena. the bigger picture is there are a lot of americans on left and right that feel the two party system or the people involved in the two party system just aren't very responsive to their needs. on the right, that is especially true with regards to immigration and you have this large group of people, some analysts referred to them as the white people who didn't vote in 2012 who want to see a hard on immigration, want to seat republican party really

commit to what it said about repealing obama care and reducing immigration and so on and so forth. on left, you have people who are democrats. they likely voted for president obama in 2012 and 2008. but in the -- during the obama administration they're disappointed with the occasional timidity and his unwillingness to go after wall street. and sanders is speaking very particularly to this group of people who are going -- they voted and going to come out in 2016 and that is not really a question. he wants more of a full throated liberal voice. >> yeah. >> so i want to get to hillary clinton plays into all this in a second, steve. but anna, your piece on sanders, i wonder if you saw what i saw. i was watching c-span saturday night. >> as you often do. you need a life. >> yeah. i was watching it for hours. i was watching bernie sanders do the crowd at the iowa state fair. they just followed him with a

camera. and he was incredible. his stamina, just physically and intellectually his capacity to engage person after person after person on the banking system, on the economy. i think sometimes inside the echo chamber we don't realize how much stamina and might he has. what's your take? >> i think that he's definitely like a strong person on a lot of different levels. he's a strong personality. he's not -- he's not ashamed of who he is n a way, like i agree with jamel. there's a very -- the trump phenomenon is different and they're different men. one of them is an actual politician who has ideas about what to do. the other one is a performer. but there is something about them that is kind of similar. one of them is that their lack of self consciousness. and also their ability to engage on issues.

when they think an issue is important, when sanders thinks an issue is important, he can filibuster about it. what also came out in that sanders interview he is wants to be the one, a little bit like trump, to decide what's important. he wants to be the one to decide what is the thing we're going to talk about right now. when i try to engage him on stuff he didn't take seriously, for whatever reason, he was incredibly dismissive in a way that some people found charming, i guess. but wasn't in the moment super fun to deal with. >> so we have two candidates making waves. one a noncelebrity, steve that, is just sort of burst out there, bernie sanders. and then donald trump who, look, we started calling him a celebrity. i think it's fair to say he's a major player in republican politics right now depending on where that goes and whether it stays in that party. nobody knows. but people have stopped predicting. how does hillary clinton fit into this picture? >> it's interesting. maybe one of the similarities i see between the sanders phenomenon and the trump

phenomenon is how it affected their competition in each party. i think it's had the same effect on how people look at hillary clinton on the democratic side with bernie sanders being the opponent and how people look at jeb bush on the republican side. and similarity there is trump and sanlders both communicate authentici authenticity. the idea they're telling wlau is on their mind, they're not afraid of political consequences, they are unvarnished, sort of nonpoliticians even though sand serz a politician. >> so authenticity and jamel, i'll ask you to chime in on this. while we have the issue with hillary clinton, i think the contrast is bad for her. because i don't think authenticity or even a sense of completely getting the right -- getting the real answer is -- i mean you can ask donald trump about anything in his life and it could be bad, good. it could be, you know, something personal and he'll just put his arms up and say, yeah. it could happen. it happened. i mean there's not kind of a

wall up where he's hiding anything. i feel like i'm accusing hillary clinton of hiding something. i'm not. but at this point from the way her campaign is acting, it seems like she is. >> right. >> you know, donald trump seems authentic. bernie sanders seems authentic. i think authenticity in politicians, even like someone in trump is a bit of a shell game. those are just ultimately personas. we don't know what donald trump is like in his private life. we don't know what bernie sanders is like in his private life. these are probably more authentic personas than the one hillary clinton is presenting to the public. i wouldn't call them authentic personas, per se. authenticity is a very sort of nebulous thing we can't get our fingers on absent some incredible knowledge of the person. with that said, i do think that there's a way for hillary clinton to be a more authentic politician. i think it really is leaning in to parts offer that are not that

exciting. i don't know if you saw that video of her speaking in new hampshire, but what was really interesting about that video is that seemed like an authentic clinton. she's engaged in the issues. she really cares about this stuff. she is also sort of doesn't have time for sort of touchy feely conversation about what is in your heart. just wants to get things done. that seems like a hillary clinton who is not trying, as you suggested, to hide anything. it seems like someone who is more real. and that more realness isn't necessarily appealing to everyone. i know people who saw that video and they thought they were kind of turned off by it. i think that exact reaction that you see it and some people feel very strongly about it and some people feel strongly negative about it is better than what we have now. it is a milk toast, it's just hillary clinton. >> so looking forward and then looking back, steve, i saw you were talking about jimmy carter and we had his news conference

yesterday. the melanoma is now in his brain. he made that announcement yesterday and talked about life moving forward and continuing with bible study and even trying to get to nepal if he can to build homes. things are changing for him. your thoughts? >> yeah. it was an amazing press conference to watch yesterday. somebody 90 years old who can be that at ease philosophical about life still looking ahead to some hopefully adventures in the future. the cliche about jimmy carter for a long time has been, as a president, might not have been much to write home about. but as an expresident, as a former president, he is really setting an example of ground breaking example for a very vibrant activist post presidency. and now he is setting an example on how to face at the end of your life something like this. it's an amazing thing to watch. >> a person in my life i remember being able to do that with such great sort of strength and also platform is pope john paul ii. and it was echos of that

watching. but i will say there are some who would make an argument for his presidency having something to write home about, we're going to hear from my dad coming up. >> i bet you will. >> thank you very much. we'll be watching you on "up" this weekend. jamel bowie, thank you. anna marie cox, great to you have on the show. we'll be looking for your q&a with bernie sanders in this sunday's "new york times" magazine. donald trump continues to dominate the republican field for president, the huffington post is standing by their concept to sort of cover him only as entertainment. their editorial director danny shea joins us next to defend their stance. we'll take them on a trip down memory lane. ♪ you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!"

then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. what do a nasca comedian... and a professional golfer have in common? we talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® has also been proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. i tried warfarin before, but the blood testing routine and dietary restrictions had me off my game. not this time. not with xarelto®. i'll have another arnold palmer. make mine a kevin nealon. really, brian? hey, safety first. like all blood thinners, don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of a blood clot or stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer for bleeding to stop.

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we need to -- we need to talk about. this joining us now, editorial director -- >> he's so glad it's not him for once. >> it's danny shea, "huffington post" editorial director. put your mike on, thank you. >> you're sweet. >> thank you. we need to talk about this. i think you made a mistake. >> yeah. so i mean nobody can deny that donald trump is partly where he is in the polls because of the media coverage. and our big statement is that donald trump is not a serious candidate, he's an entertainer. >> you can't do that. i mean awe long with the "huffington post" washington bureau chief, you wrote last

month explaining your decision not to cover the campaign of donald trump as part of your political coverage and you said "trump's campaign is a side show. we won't take the bait f you're interested in what the donald has to say, you'll find it next to our stories next to the kardashians and "the bachelorette." >> except, danny, he's in first place by a mile in iowa and new hampshire and south carolina. republican establishment members are starting to say this guy may be the nominee. >> and bernie sanders may not be in first place but she has to go to c-span to watch coverage of him. he is getting this nonstop wall to wall coverage that is no different honestly than when cnn went wall to wall -- >> all right. but hold on. following that logic, let's say there was like a former comedian and performer for "saturday night live" who never held political office and running for the senate. huff post could cover that as entertainment, right? >> i'm sorry.

>> no. how about an a-list hollywood actress that is considering a senate campaign. you covered that. not in your entertainment pages, right? how about ashley judd on huff post politics in 2014? and how about a businessman in pizza mogul who had the 999 plan who never run for president and was known for some great quotes that surely would be entertainment, right? >> remember when you ripped up the paris hilton script. >> you think you should rip up the trump script? >> you said enough already! we're saying the same thing. we're not going to participate in this sort of legitimacy of a fringe candidate who doesn't even believe that obama was born in the united states. and to give him the coverage, legitimatize him time and time again perpetuates the legitimacy of a side show. >> gene robinson? >> you know, i love "huffington." but whatever you want to sashgs

the guy sleediis leading the republican field. with all due respect, he's leading the republican field. at what point do you say, you know, this was like great. it seemed like the thing to do at the time. to say he's an entertainer. but we got to transition and we've got to cover the race that is as opposed to the race we would like to see? >> well, what i would say in response to that is the race that we're talking about is called the trump show whether it is comparing him to batman on this set. there is an open secret that it's a joke and spectacle and what legitimate mainstream political media does by going wall to wall on it is just legitimizing it. >> did you put sarah palin on the entertainment page? >> maybe we should v. >> i'm a big fan of the "huff post," but you're insulting the voters. forget the reason it's happened.

in reality, whether we like it or not, twice as many republican voters see him as their nominee than any other nominee. so regardless of what caused it, what the enzyme is and you're correct what the enzyme, is we're actually insulting the voters and saying we're going to make up our mind for you whether there is a political candidate or not. >> no, i was not insulting the voters. i think it's a fundamental difference in what we view as the media's role, right? we would say the media's role is to lead here like mika did when she ripped up the pair it hilton script. it's our job to how we cover the candidates. the issue is we're not passive observers here in the trump show. we have a role to play. nobody can deny that his poll numbers are fuelled by nonstop media coverage which you wouldn't give him if you weren't a celebrity. you're not getting bernie sanders wall to wall coverage because he's not taking you on his helicopter for people to go for joy rides above the iowa state fair. >> let's read from the "washington post." they take on your argument that

the media is buying his rise. they're right about one thing, does he drive tv ratings. it's that fact responsible for where he is in the republican voter's minds? last time i checked conservative republicans weren't exactly looking to the mainstream media for cues as to who they should support. the trump phenomenon is organic, not a media creation. covering him as a republican frontrunner is a recognition of the political reality of the moment not sum sort of fantastical trip in search of traffic. and, you know, seems like every two sundays you have the entire mainstream media apparatus predicting donald trump and cheering for donald trump and assuming donald trump's immediate collapse. >> chris alyssa called donald trump's campaign a car wreck that you couldn't turn away from. it's that immediate hypocrisy, you know in private rooms we laugh about it and say can you believe the ratings on this guy?

31% bum frp "morning joe" and trump calls n amazing. but on the air, it's sort of trying to say it's good for business. >> the difference is say all this but say it in the political space. nobody -- that's great opinion. and that's a very -- many people say a very smart opinion. but keep that opinion to the political pages. >> that's correct. i can tell you when we're off the air, nobody ever says oh, donald trump is great for ratings. what we say is what the hell is going on? can you believe this? why is it happening? >> we predicted this before anybody. we know a little bit more about him much i will tell you, he is not paris hilton walking out of jail after a dui charge. okay? with everybody snapping pictures of her and that being the lead story. that was a joke. he is the republican frontrunner. you can't deny that. >> he is also shaping the entire debate. he is shaping jeb bush's campaign. he's shaping ted cruz's campaign. he is shaping all the campaigns. he's shaping the republican

party. they are almost full panic mode. they're trying to figure out what to do. he is a very real story. and the longer he stays in front, the more the story he's going to be. >> but he's a very real story. we talk about the mega phone that donald trump has. he does not have a mega phone. he is given a mega phone by the press. it's the press's job o to say this is a fringe candidate. this is someone he won't acknowledge that obama is born in the united states. >> he's not a fringe candidate. a fringe candidate has 2% and has a porn shoot and then you have him or her on and say why are you running for prime minister of italy or whatever? a guy that has a quarter of the vote is way ahead in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, he's not a fringe candidate by his very definition. i understand you guys. we love arianna. but i understand that arianna and donald have a personal rough background. >> come on. >> but i also understand that if

that weren't the case, there is no way that you would be out here in the uncomfortable position of having to defend something you know is indefensible. and sam stein doesn't believe it. >> you don't believe it. >> mika, mika, mika? you know what? it's too damn high on your front page. >> listen to me. we need to do something. >> we fleed to help him. >> we need to do an intervention. >> we need to do something for danny. we need to take arianna to breakfast. >> i'm having breakfast with her. >> so we need to sit down. we need to sit down and talk to her and tell her that she is causing -- >> a firestorm. >> pain and emotional d aal dur for her editors. >> do you think what donald trump has to say? >> i think you actually are insulted by him and taking it personally and you're making a

news judgment mistake. >> not at all. we respect him enough to focus the coverage on serious issues. what happened to the republican primary being about inequality? this was supposed to be the election where we woke up to the issues? >> what happened to you when sarah palin is running for vice president? >> it's time to say enough. >> well, you sure as hell haven't said no in the past and the media hasn't either. i think what happened is you had this idea. you thought it would be kind of cute and suddenly he caught fire and you're like oh, my god. what do we do now? what are you going to do if the guy is -- >> you don't really believe this. >> i do fully believe it. >> good job. you hung in. there. >> you stay with it. >> why did you put the rent is too damn high on the politics page? >> the rent is too damn high guy is not a celebrity side show entertainer. reality candidate. >> that's not entertainment? danny! >> we have to get off the air. we'll be right back with more

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♪ (dorothy) toto, i've a feeling we're not in kansas anymore... (morpheus) after this, there is no turning back. (spock) history is replete with turning points. (kevin) wow, this is great. (commentator) where fantasy becomes reality! (penguin 1) where are we going? (penguin 2) the future, boys. the glorious future. (vo) at&t and directv are now one- bringing your television and wireless together- and taking entertainment to places you'd never imagine. (rick) louis, i think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

you have suckered on to me like a car window garfield. >> that is not true. >> you think you're a big shot here? oh, my god, you're not a big shot, gary. you're a middle aged man who sanitizes my tweezers. >> you're wrong. >> excuse me? >> when is katherine's birthday? >> june 8th. >> 9th. >> 9th. >> which senator's daughter is in rehab? >> what you are wearing tomorrow? >> i don't know. i'm your calendar. i'm your google. i'm your wilson the volleyball coach. >> it's so funny. >> thats with a great scene. >> we knew tony was coming, we actually both said zeroed in on that. that was such a moving moment. >> yeah. drama. >> in a comedy series. >> you know him from the hit series "veep," tony hail joins

us next to talk about that "arrested development" and his latest project. we'll be right back. ove as quietly as possible. ♪ [whirring drones] ♪ no sudden movements. ♪ [screaming panic] ♪ [whirring drones] google search: bodega beach house. ♪ ♪ [drones crashing] ♪

>> hello. >> i'm in. i activated howell. >> what?

>> yait's tough guy assets are here and i'm trying to derail this operation but something's not right. i'm standing in front of the sheriff's station which is on fire. >> don't understand. i should not be talking to you. >> i need a weapon. >> oh, my god. >> i need to know where he's pulling the subjects for this operation. >> i have to hang up. >> don't hang up. he's boxing me into this town. he's going to trap he like a rat and kill me. >> what? >> when you were watching this, donny deutsch tells us on the set that he tried to get a date with tammy taylor. >> unsuccessfully. >> you can't do that to connie britton. >> true story. >> keep donny away. >> we texted back and fort and then she said -- >> no. >> so close to leaving. >> we love her. >> huge fans of you. never, ever get within 1,000

miles of donny deutsch. >> tony hale of veep fame and arrested development fame, now american ultra fame. >> this past season, you had -- we showed one coming in. you really had remarkable moments. it's been a comedy, but this past season for your character especially, we got to see you grow. >> well, she was president this last season. and when i -- because i'm her bag man, i'm close to her, and i didn't have access to her, so that's emotional suicide for my character. she called me a middle aged man who sanitized her tweezers. >> mika calls me that all the time. i still haven't figured out how to fight back. >> there's no love on the show. >> not much. >> you'll find a lot of things. love is not one. >> i -- my daughters and i watch "veep." >> massive fans. >> i don't watch anything. and i don't watch anything except "arrested development."

so i'm obsessed with your characters. >> you're like the daily double for me. >> i love that you like "veep" especially being a political show, it shows behind the scenes, and you know that stuff goes ob. tremendous amount of insecurity in d.c. everybody is posturing, spinning, and we show that. >> talk about "american ultra." >> kind of like a twisted bourn identity where jesse eisenberg plays the stoner kid who is like a sleeper ninja with mad skills. i am in the cia who has been using him as a puppet. it's fun watch. >> you have great characters. great actors. >> great actors. >> i love that i have all these newspapers in front of me. >> would you like to read one? >> that's pretty much where we get -- spit it out. >> makes me feel official doing this. >> connie britton, your co-star. >> my co-star. she's lovely. i work for her, and jesse has

been kind of her kind of project, but actually, him being a sleeper agent is unbeknownst to him. so he discovers the skills as we discover them. he's just a stoner kid and then he killed somebody with a spoon out of nowhere. >> you once again play a socially awkward character. >> i do. >> it's something you like? >> i do defeated and emasculated really well. >> what does your wife say about that? >> honey, i'm home. >> i have to turn it off. >> where do you draw it from? >> when i was playing buster, i would come home, he's so hypersensitive and defensive. she would say something and i would be like, okay, okay. she is like, we have to drop the character, get back to the marriage. >> your wife? >> yeah. >> a comedy, but it was actually based on a real-life cia program they were trying to develop. >> this is news to eme. >> yeah. a real-life cia attempt to

create super warriors that lasted three decades. launched in the 1950s. the attempt failed miserably. >> wow. >> there you go. >> i love that. >> the more you know. >> go ahead, no you. >> oh, donny. >> tell connie -- >> oh, no. >> i'm a nice person. >> no, no, can i say this? >> let me ask you this. was it through a friend? >> mutual friend. >> i would be more direct. >> i did, then she said my cat has to go to the vet. >> maybe you would have better luck with some of his other leading lady co-stars. >> julia is married. >> what about jessica? >> liza, i dated liza minnelli on "veep." perfect match. >> american ultra is in theaters today. tony hale, so nice to meet you. >> so nice to meet you. >> you're amazing. >> have fun. >> connie britton, stay light

years away from donny deutsch. don't do it. >> come back and bring your 9-year-old. >> i will. >> coming up, at the top -- that's nice. at the top of the hour, much more on the big developments involving donald trump's campaign and hillary clinton's e-mail controversy. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." or obsess about security. she'll log in with her smile. he'll have his very own personal assistant. and this guy won't just surf the web. he'll touch it. scribble on it. and share it. because these kids will grow up with windows 10. get started today. windows 10. a more human way to do. (vo) what'scorn? dog food's first ingredient? wheat? in new purina one true instinct grain free, real chicken is always #1. no corn, wheat or soy. support your active dog's whole body health

with purina one. what do a nasca comedian... and a professional golfer have in common? we talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® has also been proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. i tried warfarin before, but the blood testing routine and dietary restrictions had me off my game. not this time. not with xarelto®. i'll have another arnold palmer. make mine a kevin nealon. really, brian? hey, safety first. like all blood thinners, don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of a blood clot or stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto®,

watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. xarelto® has been prescribed more than 11 million times in the u.s. and that number's growing. like your guys' scores. with xarelto® there is no regular blood monitoring, and no known dietary restrictions. treatment with xarelto® was the right move for us. ask your doctor about xarelto®. quicker smarter earlier fresher harder and yeah, even on sundays. if that's not what you think of when you think of the united states postal service, watch us deliver. ♪

mother nature can turn in an instant; don't turn back. introducing the new 2016 ford explorer. be unstoppable. ♪ this is my fight song... well, both of the former president bush called me at one time, and george h.w. bush, bush, sr., called me yesterday afternoon again. i appreciated that very much, and the wives were on the television with them. president obama called, the vice president called.

bill clinton called. hillary clinton called. secretary of state called. first time he's called in a long time. >> really something. former president jimmy carter talking about his condition yesterday. i just -- i don't know where to begin. i have so much warm feelings towards that man. and respect. >> yeah. >> so we wish him the best. and hope to get down there. >> we really do. we need to get down there. and it's been such a great honor to have them here. >> he's still doing bible study on sundays. >> a great honor to have him up here. he has bible studies and every sunday. sunday school teacher. it's a small church that just happens to get bigger every sunday. jimmy carter teaches the bible. >> we'll have much more on him a little later in the show. with us on set, we have jeremy

peters, donny deutsch, eugene robinson, all here in new york. a lot to talk about. i was going to give you guys the choice, but i think i'm going to choose the story. >> okay. >> i'm not going to let you choose. a federal judge says hillary clinton did not follow government e-mail policy using her personal server for state department business. at a hearing over a freedom of information lawsuit, the judge said, quote, we wouldn't be here today if the employee had followed government policy. the judge even opened the possibility the fbi could expand its search to include e-mails clinton may have deleted. he also called on the fbi to hand over to state any e-mails it recovers from the server not yet in the state department's possession. the hearing was spurred over questions of huma abedin's work at the same time for both the state department and in the private sector. clinton has long said she turned over all relevant documents.

her campaign staff have said that her use of a personal e-mail account was consistent with her predecessors and permissible under department policy at the time. >> wow. donny -- >> is it or isn't it? they say it is. hillary clinton staff says it was permissible under department policy. is that true? why do they keep saying that? >> no, the is not true. 2009 regulation that required that you had to keep your e-mails contained and preserved. especially at the agency. >> i believe she says that it was permissible, essentially at the moment she set up the server. however, the 2009 regulations came out. >> what do you mean by that? i have no idea what you mean? >> 2009 regulations came out after she set up the server. >> then you don't use the server

because the regulation doesn't allow it, gene. >> exactly. i'm not arguing -- >> gene is agreeing with you. >> you're saying hillary clinton's staff is not telling the truth and hillary clinton is not telling the truth. >> the clinton staff is arguing that at the time, she made the decision to use the private e-mail server, it was not prohibited. that's what they're saying. >> right, so are you saying -- >> however, the rules did come out shortly thereafter that said you can't do that. >> permissible is one thing. proper and in good judgment is another. that's what we're talking about. >> not following policy -- >> this is beyond proper. this isn't just, this is proper or this is not political. the obama administration will tell you this was improper. it was wrong. and you have a federal judge who is continuing this and saying the fbi needs to dig deeper. and there are people started to look at the u.s. code for the first time, and realize a few

things. and that is that hillary clinton may be in some legal jeopardy personally. >> here's what i believe. i'm curious what the smart guys at the table think. i equate this to donald trump saying things about john mccain. i think if you like hillary clinton, you turn away. if you don't like hillary clinton, you go with this. i don't think it has a profound effect on the candidacy. >> donny, where have you been? >> i just think at the end of the day -- >> her poll numbers are collapsing. >> if you're a hillary person, you're a hillary person. if you're a trump person, you're a trump person. i find more than ever people are staying in their lains. she's taken a hit. >> i'm trying to find if members of the media are in some ways hillary people. >> members of the media -- >> i don't think she would say that. >> she would not say that. >> what i just said -- >> i think there's a lot of truth in that.

i talk to a lot of people who are hillary people who are like, this is nothing. this is all typically trumped up against the clintons. this is, nobody is talking about it. i'm out among the people, i'm not hearing about it. here's the thing, though. the fbi and the federal courts are not like academic institutions who are just doing this, you know, to expand the store of human knowledge. they investigate and they find stuff out, and then they go to the next step. and so i think once this process is started, it doesn't -- when does it end? it doesn't just go away. and it does erode -- i do not think her numbers are collapsing. i don't think you can say collapsing. at all. but i think it has weakened her numbers, especially her trustworthy numbers, especially with independents. >> also in a queninnipiac poll r the first time, joe biden matched up better against

republicans in a general election contrast than hillary clinton in pennsylvania, florida, in i believe ohio as well. >> more of a function that biden has finally raised his hand and it's a possibility. >> john heilemann, mark halpern. >> they're punks, those guys. you can't reference those guys. >> kasie hunt. >> kasie hunt is different. >> you can go down the list. people at the iowa state fair. democrats at the iway state fair. people who supported hillary clinton were asking about this. what happened? i want to support her but -- >> i'm a lot that way. >> so wait. we have here two lines, the beginning and end of the story. you guys tell me what's wrong with this picture. a federal judge says she did not follow government e-mail policy in using her personal server for state department business. at this hearing for the foi suit, the judge said we wouldn't even be here if the employee had followed government policy.

then we have her campaign staff saying her use of a personal e-mail account was consistent with her predecessors and permissible under department policy. is it or is it not permissible? i just want the answer. i don't want lots of sentences around it. i just want the answer. >> do you follow a federal judge's opinion on the surface or the political spin meister's answer. >> i think it's helpful to think about this. i don't have an answer for you. >> the answer, mika, she says it was permissible when she did it, when she started it. but the rule came out later. >> soon after. >> she broke it. >> most of us would say it's not permissible. >> a federal judge said that she did not do it properly. there was an impermissible use. >> right. there are questions from the very beginning about whether or not this was in line -- >> i'm asking you. the federal judge, you see he

says it's impermissible. >> impermissible, fine, he says that. i'm not arguing whether it was permissible or impermissible. what i'm trying to figure out is how does this affect her politically. >> would it hurt you to say the federal judge who works day in and day out, who follows the law and reads the law and it's his job to interpret the law says she impermissibly used e-mail. i'm trying to figure out, is this like fonzie saying he's wrong. you're saying, i don't know. >> it's a question how it affects the populous. >> it's a reporter for the "new york times" -- >> don't challenge the "new york times." don't challenge the "washington post." >> you want me to indict and damn hillary clinton. i'm not going to do that. >> no, i don't want you to sit here and play paungss pilot. i don't know. we have people on here who, use trump to get very specific with

these lies that clinton's people keep spinning every single day. i did this voluntarily. >> the point is clinton lies for 20 years and it doesn't affect her. >> i just want, though, reporter by reporter, reporters to come on. you've got a federal judge saying that she did not follow e-mail policy. >> yeah. >> true or false, jeremy peters, reporters for the "new york times"? >> that was a story from the beginning, wasn't it? >> i'm asking you. >> she didn't follow the protocol. >> isn't the story now that they continue to lie to you? >> i think the story now is what donny was talking about, which is -- if you look at, i think it's helpful to look at it from the perspective of an ad maker. how do you turn this -- >> let me tell you right now, the investigators for the fbi that are circling around and seeing whether she did what david petraeus did, which by the way, he got busted for having classified material in his

possession wrongfully or sending it wrongfully that was not marked. >> that was to his girlfriend. >> but that is what the fbi is saying. they're saying right now, what would donny deutsch think? oh, wait, no they're not. >> you don't know. trust me. >> jeremy reports, we decide, right? an objective reporter. >> squirm in front of everybody. >> don't bite. >> i'm not. >> i'm not letting -- i'm not trying to make you squirm. it's like bob woodward comes on here and says something clearly that is not straight or -- >> bob woodward has a lot more credibility than i do. >> all right. i am going to move on. >> so, well, i'm not going to ask -- >> lots of news. >> let's go to donald trump. >> you, too. >> why don't we call him right now? >> we talk to him every day.

>> i know you do. does he ever get proactive calls? you're watching right now. he's got his frosty os and in his feety pajamas and watching. we should call him. >> do you have his new number? >> i don't, no. >> in a few hours alabama is going to be hosting what could be the largest event so far of the 2016 campaign. mobile. >> donald trump is expecting about 35,000 people in a rally tonight in mobile. mobile, right? >> mobile, alabama. >> taking place at a stadium which is home to the university of south alabama jaguars. crews are removing one of the goalposts to accommodate the stage for the republican front-runner. the event comes as trump looks beyond iowa and new hampshire while his blunt style may seem like an unlikely fit in the south, trump says he is not surprised by the enthusiasm. >> what happened is we took a hotel like a ballroom that held 1,000 people, and the company, the hotel company calls us up

and said we're getting swamped. we don't have enough room for this. they then took another one that was larger than another one, then the convention center, and i think it holds 10,000 people. within a few minutes, we were wiped out of that one because we were way over. and then they end up going to your stadium because that's the -- >> right. >> that's because that was the only thing that could hold it. it's become like a happening. it's become an event and a real happening. they know they're not going to be ripped anymore. and they're smart people. and they know what's going on. they know how ignorant our government has been in trade, in taking care of the vets. they do such a poor job. in so many different ways. and i think that's probably why you have the crowd and it's probably why i polled so well in alabama. >> and this morning's usa today looks at what trump's long-term campaign strategy may be. the plan includes consolidating

his leads in the polls and sweeping iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina. the campaign then plans to ride that momentum to the nomination, relying on first-time voters and those fed up with the status quo. >> right after that, jeremy peters, the so-called s.e.c. primary, and donald trump, i mean, donald trump is beating jeb bush and marco rubio easily in florida. >> in florida. >> he's ahead in alabama. his crowds are always been up in south carolina. he's always had good crowds in south carolina. his style obviously does fit in pretty snuggly with the deep south. >> i would encourage you to read the "new york times" this weekend -- >> i always do. >> we have a story coming that i think is going to draw some pretty surprising conclusions about the durability longevity of donald trump's coalition. and what we have done is look at the poll numbers, we have interviewed dozens of people, done focus groups of our own, almost. and found that his strength

almost across every single republican demographic is incredibly strong. now, that ultimately could be the undoing of his candidacy because it's very easy to fragment a group that large. but for the time being, there's no sign that the strength is going to fade. >> and donald trump is like godzilla, as you said, gene robinson. put electricity on him, and what doesn't kill him will make him stronger. >> it makes him stronger. >> i noticed this. these are all these defining moments in campaigns. if trump continues like he does, the defining moment was a couple nights ago. i sat there, mika called me, said turn on trump. what channel? every channel. then she called her parents. she said turn on trump. they said, we're already watching. >> my daughter carly was watching. >> my brother was watching. i'm telling you, this is something, and i get the sense,

i got the sense watching that, that the establishment and the republicans and the media had donald trump on his heels, sort of staggering around like a punch boxer in that first fox debate. and he admitted it. he said he went out there and he's like, the first question, like holy cow. i was just thinking watching him the other night, that's the first and last time they're going to sneak up on donald trump. he seemed to have it sort of, the armor going up around him. >> look, he's not a stupid guy, right? he's a smart guy. >> i think that is new information. >> so the idea that his 25% or whatever is the absolute ceiling, it seems to be the story that the stabment is telling itself now. what's the empirical proof of that?

exactly. >> a month and a half ago, trump wasn't going to be relevant. >> the megyn kelly thing was going to kill him. >> he's not serious. >> i was thinking what you're saying. looking at the poll numbers, everybody said says but all he's going to get is 25%. we also heard three weeks ago, he's not going to run well against democrats. there's no way he can get elected. we heard, two thirds of the republicans can't stand the guy. now, those numbers have changed. now he's ahead of hillary in the most important swing states and i'm with you. that 25%, that's not his ceiling. >> one of the things in talking to supporters of his at these rallies which i have done for the past two weeks now, i asked them, okay, every time donald trump says something outrageous and the media predicts his demise, what do you think? they almost unanimously say keep it up, keep doing it. we love his outrageousness. they're supporting him because of the outrageous things he

says. >> still ahead on "morning joe," should jeb bush's campaign start to worry about how it's doing in iowa and new hampshire? why he might want to try selling boring. yes, actually being a boring person. and still ahead, joe learns about the time i almost caused an international incident. >> it was ugly. >> it wasn't so bad. i mean, unless you consider -- >> almost ran over a world leader. >> all right, you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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i'm a gas service rep for pg&e in san jose.. as a gas service rep we are basically the ambassador of the company. we make the most contact with the customers on a daily basis. i work hand-in-hand with crews to make sure our gas pipes are safe. my wife and i are both from san jose. my kids and their friends live in this community. every time i go to a customer's house, their children could be friends with my children so it's important to me. one of the most rewarding parts of this job is after you help a customer, seeing a smile on their face. together, we're building a better california. there's a big difference between donald trump and me. i'm a proven conservative with a record. he isn't. i cut taxes every year. he's proposed the largest tax increase in mankind's history, not just our own country's history. i have been consistently pro-life. he until recently was for

partial birth abortion. i have never met a person who actually thought that was a good idea. he's been a democrat longer than being a republican. i have fought for republican and conservative causes all my adult life. when people get this narrative, whatever the new term is, the compare and contrast nar tsk, they're going to find that i'm going to be the guy that they're going to vote for. >> governor -- >> he's losing in florida. when people start realizing we need to win, it will look different. >> that was -- yeah. >> donny, that's actually jeb getting worked up. he's saying with a bit more passion what he said the night before. what he has to say every single day. i don't know if it will work or not. >> here's the reality. him worked up versus trump, he still looks asleep. >> which trump will tell you gladly. >> he said jeb is an incredibly

low-energy guy. it's very hard for him -- yeah, he got under jeb's skin. >> what does jeb need to do to sort of deflect? you showed me yesterday an example. immediately what you would do. >> i was noticing at the town hall meeting, he was going through and explaining everything. >> i'm sorry. >> at one point, one of my campaigns i got frustrated because a guy who had been a democrat his whole life and was a liberal switched to the republican party. so it was simple. you go, hey, listen. i don't care. if you want to vote for a liberal, to run the republican -- i don't really care. he's a liberal. he's done, and maybe you like that. if i were jeb, i would go, maybe you like a guy that supports partial partial-birth abortions. maybe you like that. maybe you like single-payer health care. maybe you like your health care to be like health care, i don't know, sweden, i don't know, norway, i don't even know where

they have single-payer health care. if that's what you like, instead of a health care system which i like that believes the free market should have something to do with it, it's fine. isn't america great? you have a guy you can vote for. vote for single-payer health care. and vote for an entertainer. and vote for partial-birth abortion. that's your call. if that's your republican -- that's cool. democracy is great, though. if you want a conservative, you can vote for me. >> a little pasty, a little boring, but you can vote for me. >> jeb should say that, too. >> that's an interesting thing. >> i know i'm -- say this, i know i don't look like donald trump with that hair, and thank god, but i know i didn't have a reality show, and i know i didn't write a book 40 years ago that i keep talking about every day, and i know i'm a little pasty. i know i'm a little big. i know i've got dentist classes. let me tell you something -- >> he did it yesterday?

>> maybe i look like a dentist. maybe i'm boring. and i will tell you what. i will look like a dentist and i will be boring sitting behind the most important desk in america if you'll let me, and i will veto every tax bill that nancy pelosi sends my way. and if somebody in the congress supports partial-birth abortion and the bill passes through it, and it gets to my desk -- >> boring me. >> boring me with my dentist glasses, you don't have to ask what the boring, pasty, big looking guy behind the desk is going to do. i'm going to votto the bill every time. but what will donald trump do? i don't know, maybe he'll have a reality show. he'll make you laugh. i mean, that's what he's got to do. self-deprecating. >> take trump's strengths and turn them into weaknesses. >> joining us, mike allen. you have new numbers out of your politico caucus of iowa and new hampshire. insiders, and you asked them if

the jeb bush campaign is in trouble. tell us what you found. >> well, mika, we'll do that, but first things first, happy friday. >> yes, the world is safe. >> all right. >> this is the politico caucus, our poll of insiders in new hampshire and iowa. one of the questions this week about whether or not you're worried about jeb. and especially in new hampshire, which jeb bush is really dependent on. iowa would be a bonus for him. he definitely is going to play there. but he has to do well or win in new hampshire. what our insiders there are telling us is that he has a relevance problem. this is what we heard after the debate. people aren't talking about jeb bush. people are either talking about trump or new hampshire as you guys know, tons of conversation about the ohio governor john kasich. so jeb bush needs to get on the radar in the conversation, and he did that this week the way so many of the candidates have, and

that is to attack trump, to talk about trump. very fascinating. the "washington post" talked to mike murphy who is running the super pac supporting jeb. mike murphy through the post, sending the message to jeb campaign headquarters in miami, don't attack trump. that's a losing strategy. just stick to what you're saying. and we can fight trump later. >> still ahead, will wall street recover after the dow suffers its worst day of the entire year? business before the bell is coming up. up next, dr. brzezinski gives a look at his relationship with jimmy carter after the former president was candid about describing his cancer. we'll be right back.

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well, the best thing i ever did was marry rosalyn. that's the pinnacle of my life. and we've had 69 years together. still together. the haven for our lives has b n been -- i plan to teach sunday school this sunday and every sunday as long as i am physically and mentally able, in my little church. we have hundreds of visitors come to see the curiosity of a politician teaching the bible.

so i'll continue that. >> president jimmy carter spoke to the american people yesterday about his life and health for the first time since revealing he has cancer that has spread to his brain. the former president began targeted radiation treatment yesterday. >> i recently sat down with a man who knows president carter better than most, his former national security adviser, dr. brzezinski. we talked about their relationship, how it began, and how it endures four turbulent years. >> he was an exceptionally able president. he had two major problems. the iranians and the domestic financial challenge. but he had a remarkable list of accomplishments. in four years, that hasn't been matched since his time. if you look at the ten or so key accomplishments in different parts of the world, you know, in camp david, panama treaty, a

whole host of others, and that's really impressive. to me, of course, the cold war was the critical issue. and i think that the president was decisive and willing to do what was needed in a way that actually paved the way for reagan, as i emphasized. as a person, for me, it was a delight to work with him. because we sometimes spend saturday mornings talking about religion and change and the comparisons between the south and the european traditions and things of that sort, personal as well. and i liked him personally. i liked his wife, who i found to be very charming as a woman. and yet impressed by how tough she was and what important role she played in his life. i just thought he was a great guy and i liked him. at the same time, i did what i did, which was to advocate my

views. to the point that i admit i sometimes annoyed him. but he was very nice about it. and i remember -- >> and yet he -- he more times than not was aligned with you. >> yes. but sometimes i overdid it. i remember one day, his secretary came to my office with a kind of slight sneer on her face, and had an envelope in her hand. and i looked at her, and i saw green stationary. that's a note from the president. iticides, zbig, don't you ever know when to stop? what struck me the most was not the irritation that she was conveying in this terribly subtle way but rather strongly, could have been more threatening perhaps, but by his sense of, you know, let's not crush the weaker party in the relationship

which i obviously was. he was the president. i was just his appointee. he could have said leave and i would have had to leave. >> but in fact, he had others leave when the debate came down between your view of what should be done and -- >> yes. >> the person running the state department. >> the cabinet purge, and then some people in the state department. i remember i walked into his office at 7:00 in the morning or 6:30 because i was the first person to brief him in the morning, and he was sitting the reading the "new york times." and i looked at him, what's new? what's happening in the world? he said i'm checking if you're still in the government. that was the day they fired people from the cabinet and so forth. he had a good sense of humor. kind of waking you up in the

morning fashion. >> i need to ask before we close, is there a moment you remember with your daughter, who everybody knows through the show, mika, during those years, those were obviously formative years for her. >> very important. she was briefly at camp david. she almost killed, not intentionally, prime minister, who i got to like quite a bit, actually. i admired him because she and carter's daughter amy were driving one of these golf carts, something like that, and almost smashed into bagen at high speed. so it could have been suspected as a plot against him. but he was very polite and very nice. >> do you have a special moment that you treasure the most from your four years in the white house? what you would consider to be the high point? would it be the camp david accords? >> of course, in terms of

attainments, yes, but in terms of purely personal feeling, it was the swearing in. when i was sworn in with the cabinet members in a rather large gathering. i remember, i walked from that to my new office, and i remember, i said to myself, from now on, for the next four years, everything will be dominated with what is good for america, with what is good for the presidency. and i'm just going to give it my all. >> for too many years, we have been willing to adopt the flawed and erroneous principles and tactics of our adversaries. sometimes abandoned our own values for theirs. we fought fire with fire. never thinking that fire's better quenched with water. >> if you look at the list of his accomplishments, which is really quite remarkable for a four-year president, he did a lot of things. >> history's already shown that

you did what you set out to do when you first got there. dr. brzezinski, thank you so much. >> thanks so much. good to talk to you. >> very well done. >> boy, he went down the list of jimmy carter's accomplishments and a lot of them very courageous things that obviously weren't politically popular but things he did, and that's the one thing that struck me about your father, and i told it to president carter the last time he was here. whether in private or in public or with cameras on or with cameras off, there's nothing but great adveration for jimmy carter. and that continues through the years. >> did you ask my dad what he did during the energy crisis with the light bulb? >> i did not. but we -- >> should have asked him that. >> what did he do? >> you know, carter was in his sweater. his cardigan sweater. we needed to conserve energy. >> it was hot. >> no, no, so -- >> okay. >> he said turn your heaters

down. it was hot. it was the opposite, wasn't it. >> yes, but that's okay. i think we should tell it, probably. >> so it was just the opposite. they were trying to conserve air conditioning in the summer, so they had it set up to like 74 degrees. the air conditioner hardly ever came on. it was very, very hot. what dr. brzezinski did is took off a lamp and put it right under the thermostat so it would always push it up over 74 degrees. does that surprise you at all? >> no, not if it was really hot. >> exactly. still ahead, we'll have much more on that. why it looks like another rough day for wall street after the largest sell-off of the year. business before the bell is next.

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(dorothy) toto, i've a feeling we're not in kansas anymore... (morpheus) after this, there is no turning back. (spock) history is replete with turning points. (kevin) wow, this is great. (commentator) where fantasy becomes reality! (penguin 1) where are we going? (penguin 2) the future, boys. the glorious future. (vo) at&t and directv are now one- bringing your television and wireless together- and taking entertainment to places you'd never imagine. (rick) louis, i think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. 43 past the hour. time now for business before the

bell. cnbc's sara eisen joins us live. >> my mother would call her sister mary sunshine because she's coming with all the good news about wall street. like bill karins when he has to tell us there's blizzards for the next five weeks. not happy days. >> no, we'rane bit of a rough patch here. yes, yesterday was a brutal day on wall street. the worst in 18 months. 2% declined on major averages. now the s&p 500 is negative for the years thanks to yesterday's sell-off. the bad news is it looks like the selling is going to continue today. we got a rough number out of china on their manufacturing. the concerns on wall street largely have to deal with china swelling, second biggest economy in the world, lots of exposure for u.s. companies and companies around the world through exports, through consumer, through commodities. with that, the plunge in commodities. what is that telling us? joe, you brought up oil yesterday. oil is headed for another down week.

this is its longest losing stretch since 1986. we could break below $40 a barrel. analysts are looking for the $30s. just to give you perspective. last summer, oil was at $100 a barrel. yes, it's good news for the u.s. consumer because we get cheaper gas prices in the $2 range, but the message from sharply lower commodities prices is what's worrying wall street because it's a sign of slower global growth. >> all right, sara eisen, thank you very much. hold on to your hats. >> up next, imagine learning to drive for the first time in your 40s in new york city, after your marriage ends. the subject of a new movie starring emmy-winner patricia clarkson. she joins us next.

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i was a university professor like my father. >> why do you teach driving? >> for a better job, i would have to take off my turban, shave off my beard. people think i look dangerous. but this is how i know who i am, and here it is too easy to forget. >> do you ever get visits? >> i can never go home to india. it's part of political asylum. i couldn't get to see my dad before he passed away last year. i missed my mom's funeral, too, but then i was in prison there. >> why? >> no justice.

>> that was a look at the new romantic comedy "learning to drive." with us, academy award nominee patricia clarkson who co-stars alongside sir ben kingsley in the film. what a fantastic story and an unexpected romantic comedy. >> yes. >> not so much comedy, but it's always kind of funny watching people who live in manhattan learning to drive for the first time. that's what we have here. >> and it's truthful. you know, as you know. as manhattanites. many, many people grow up and never drive. >> driving is something you learn more easily when you're 16 than when you're later in life. >> oh, yes. >> i didn't learn until i was 28 because i gree up in manhattan. >> i'm from california where we drive before we walk. when i moved to new york, i lived here four years before i drove in new york city. so i love the idea of -- because she's sort of gone through

something. she learns to drive as a metaphor for really -- >> metaphors are plenty in this film. that's the beauty of it. it is about a woman who's come to a crisis in her life. an intellectual brilliant woman, has everything. my generation of women, we're lucky. we have it all. she has a job, a beautiful husband in jake weber, very handsome. and beautiful daughter. and then, you know, suddenly, her life shifts. and she's presented with this opportunity to learn to drive. who wouldn't want to learn to drive from sir ben kingsley? >> right, and he also is going through his own personal ordeal, moving towards an arranged marriage. >> yes. >> a very unhappy situation. somehow, you two with your completely different stories and lives unraveling in different ways, seem to be a really good fit. >> you know, surbeen and i have done a film before. and what was beautiful, you

know, he's an incredibly charismatic and warm and funny and available man in ways that i think people would find surprising about him, because he seems so -- >> composed. >> composed and serious. composed is a very good word. >> someone who has the word sir before him. >> be ask me, do you call him sir? yes, if i were dane patricia clarkson, you better call me dane. but we have such a mutual respect for one another, but we do kind of have this kismet, this chemistry that comes. he's very happily married, but be just get on well. we're very similar. we show up every day to work. doing this, you know, we really had -- he had to trust in me because i have not been driving. i was born and raised in new orleans, but i lost the ability to drive. as my whole family will attest to. they have to chauffeur me every

time i go home. i said there are going to be moments in the movie where i'm really going to be driving alone over the queens borough bridge. that was life and art coming together. that scene where -- there's a big scene where i drive over the bridge. it was so truthful, i never sweat. and i don't think sir ben does either. we were both sweating by the time we got over the bridge. >> explain the comfort and the chemistry you two have together, because it's so hard to find, and it's not something that can ever be manufactured. you either have it or you don't. >> you can't. i think it started, we did this beautiful film that the director of this film also directed called "elegy" and we had to get very personal, very quickly on that film. we had a nude scene, a sex scene. so there's nothing that will bond you faster. >> that will do it.

>> than simulated sex. >> i can only imagine. >> am i allowed to say that on "morning joe"? >> first time on "morning joe"? >> i'm so thrilled. i told everybody. i'm like, i'm on "morning joe." >> we loved having you. can't wait to see the film. >> "learning to drive" is in theaters. patricia clarkson, thank yous so much. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." from bank of america to buy a new gym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. kenny used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to join the wednesday night league. because he loves to play hoops. not jump through them. that's the excitement of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you.

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magazine with future president donald trump on the cover? this is the cover of "time." it says deal with it. for most people, that would be the face of an unsedated colonoscopy, but for donald trump, it's the face of america's future. inside the magazine, he posed for pictures with a bald eagle. they brought a bald eagle up to his office, which had to make for a weird elevator ride with the other tenants. they had a bald eagle with donald trump and they didn't even put a wig on it. >> welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned. >> all eyes will be on alabama tonight. >> huge. jeremy. >> tony hale is the exact opposite in person of the characters he plays on television. >> so nice, too. >> so awkward on the screen, but then in real life, such a charming guy. >> i know. >> donny? >> for some reason, i was being yelled at whien i was -- >> do you want me to throw water

on you? >> it's just a fashion glamour don't. that's what i was doing. >> my good friends at "huffington post" aren't ready to say we made a mistake. >> they just know it. they know it. he knows it. he walks away knowing he was wrong. >> we beat him up pretty good. >> way too early, what time is it? >> "morning joe," but stick around. we have "the rundown" coming up. and good friday morning to you. i'm jose diaz-balart. first on "the rundown" this morning, what a week for hillary clinton. and it's not over yet. this morning, a federal judge says the presidential candidate violated government guidelines, and again, it's all related to her decision to use a private e-mail server to conduct official state department business. meantime, while the democratic front-runner takes a break from the campaign trail, someone else may be ramping up. new polling shows a majority of democrats want vice president joe biden to mount a run of his

own. kristen welker joins us from martha's vineyard where president obama is vacationing. good morning. i imagine there's not a whole lot of vacationing going on for hillary clinton, or is there? >> well, i don't think so. i think the campaign is in damage control mode, jose. we're heading into yet another weekend in which hillary clinton's campaign is being overshadowed by the e-mail issue. she's been on defense all week long, and now a sharp rebuke from a federal judge. hillary clinton increasingly mired in the e-mail scandal. on thursday, during a hearing involving clinton longtime adviser huma abedin's e-mails, a federal judge scolded the former secretary of state who was not present, saying we wouldn't be here today if the employee had followed government policy. an indication he thinks clinton broke the rules. this comes as the fbi is in the process of trying to recover some of the data that was wiped from clinton's private server. for the first time, a representative from the i.t. company that provided that server spoke