you don't worry about donald trump. he's a force to be reckoned with, but you don't reckon with him by dealing with it. i just quit answering donald trump questions. he's getting ten times the amount of coverage that any other candidate is getting, and the dumbest thing a candidate can do right now is to give him more coverage by answering all the trump questions. >> good monday morning. what? >> that sent down smooth. >> have a little coffee there. >> good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." >> i love that, everybody goes, well, he's getting so much more press coverage. >> yeah. >> yeah. because he's having rock shows and is ahead of everybody by like 30 points.

>> it was -- >> so are we supposed to be covering rand paul at 2.6%. >> stop. >> like having meetings in kentucky? or marco rubio, that the press is, oh, he's so great because he delivers a student council speech. >> who watched the mobile, alabama, rally live friday night? >> of course. >> that's unbelievable. >> including my parents. yes. >> friday night. it's just crazy. >> like at 9:00. >> we had people over. we put the tv on. donald trump's face was on and people just stopped and turned up the volume. people who don't like donald trump, some of them don't like donald trump, a lot of them did, and listened to the entire speech. football stadium full of fans got me excited for s.e.c. season. but it was remarkable. it was vintage trump. people who are complaining there wasn't a lot of substance should probably get over that at this point.

this is what he does. >> what they're not getting over, you watch the sunday shows and the same people that said, oh, he will never enter the race. well, he will enter the race but he won't be relevant. well, he'll be relevant but he'll be a flash in a pan. and then talk on their shows every week about how this was his last week, that he was going to collapse are now saying of course he can't win the nomination. and it's just like seriously, you have the mainstream media, mike, that have been dead wrong, dead wrong about the two biggest political stories of the year. one, trump. two, hillary's e-mail. >> well, here's the question with regard to trump, i think, just from sensing it from the broadness of his demographic that backs him. and it's not just one particular slight of the electorate. >> it's everything. >> it's a broad demographic. the question is what does donald trump's success say about the rest of the field? >> yeah. >> and that's what -- >> that's pretty bad. >> -- what somebody told me, john heilemann yesterday, whose

name i won't reveal, but he's one of the best known political observers who's been saying from the very beginning this is the most overrated field. most overrated field since he's been covering politics. that you have a couple of good candidates, but we're seeing the failings on the campaign trail of scott walker and of -- well, just about all of them except for like ted cruz and one or two others. they are not what everybody said they were going to be, and that's why trump is running over everybody. >> this field benefits enormously by comparison to the field in 2012. >> exactly. >> which was the worst field of anybody in our lifetimes. it looks good compared to that field. >> it does. >> but it's not the greatest, most formidable field in a generation or since world war ii, it's just not. >> let's look at this reuters poll that came out. look at these numbers.

donald trump at 32%. jeb bush half of that at 16%. carson at 8, huckabee 7. now listen to this, scott walker. everybody is saiying, oh, scott walker is the guy. 5%. marco rubio, everybody says he's the greatest ever, 5%. ted cruz 5%. carly 3%, chris christie 3%. rand paul, who we all talked about last year, 3%. look how flat, willie geist, everybody is after you get -- well, actually you get past jeb. >> particularly looking at marco rubio and carly fiorina who we said as well the morning after that debate in cleveland had great nights and probably would see some kind of surge out of it. that has levelled off or dropped actually. >> look at where's john kasich on that poll? >> john kasich below that, who

another guy, i love him, but the media loves john kasich. john kasich is 30 points below donald trump. and usually you get that bump when you first announce. he's at 2%. i'm not saying -- maybe he jumps up to 5 or 6 or maybe even higher, but right now people saying there's no way donald trump is going to win the nomination are seriously in a state of denial because they have embarrassed themselves so much over the past several months. >> but it's fascinating you read the press accounts of his rise and no one will just say he's succeeding and he's doing well. they'll say, well, it's because of this, it's because of this and it's going to die eventually. >> we know this, though, as people in new york, nobody ever can give trump any credit. they mock him. i'm talking even before this. if people know -- you know donald trump, a lot of them will be oh. well, you know those buildings aren't really his. oh, he just gets paid millions

and millions of dollars to put his name on some building? you know that. he's succeeded over the past 30 or 40 years, extraordinarily well, and yet people are always trying to knock at him. that was in manhattan. now the same thing is happening in washington. >> and now the narrative seems to be to me, the media narrative anyway, that this is fine for now, but wait until people start voting. then we'll really see if they support donald trump. >> why don't they stop predicting? why don't they just cover it? why don't we all just cover the story. let's cover the clinton story, let's cover the trump story and let the actual events speak follow themselves. this analysis by "the new york times" predicts that trump has real staying power in the race. the review of recent national and early state polling finds him leading among tea party supporters over ted cruz, loading with evangelicals over mike huckabee. >> it's unbelievable. >> and leading with moderate republicans over jeb bush. what's so vexing to the

establishment about this is that he says absolutely nothing that would lead him to be leading. >> well, he goes to a church and he says i don't have any reason to ask god for forgiveness and he's leading among evangelicals. >> that's funny. >> it is. but you bring up a good point. why can't people just get out of the way and cover the story. we have been mocked and ridiculed by a lot of our friends for several months by just saying he could win. >> they're saying, oh, you're on trump's side. no, we're just saying we're going to watch this. we know how things go and this may not go so badly for him. >> he could win. >> he could. >> but it's very hard for a lot of the media to admit this. they have snuck up on a lot of campaigns as well. >> speaking of someone who said from the very beginning that something real was going on with trump and that he could take a substantial chunk of the republican nominating electorate, i will also say, if you look at the polls, there is a challenge he faces to winning, and that is that he has this

extraordinary large number of people in the republican party who say they will never vote for him under any circumstance. he's got a very high never, never. >> he also could not win. >> mika, i'm not saying he won't win. i'm saying as a candidate who has to face a challenge of how do you get to 50, once the field is down to not 16 people but down to two. if you have over 50% of the party saying they would never vote for you, that is a challenge he will have to overcome. >> there are a couple of things we don't know. first of all, he's moved, obviously. in the general election he was losing by 30 or 40 points a couple of weeks ago. now he's beating hillary clinton in pennsylvania, in florida, in ohio. also new voters that are coming to the polls. this also may change things substantially. may not, mike, but at the same time -- >> i've got to get some elements. as we said trump took his campaign to mobile, alabama, friday night. despite the heat and even a chance of rain, police and fire

officials estimated that over 20,000 people showed up, making it the largest rally on the republican side so far. ♪ >> wow, wow, wow. unbelievable. unbelievable! thank you. you know, now i know how the great billy graham felt, because it's the same feeling. we love billy graham. we love billy graham. who cares if it rains, right? rate? you know, if it rains, i'll take off my hat and i'll prove -- i'll prove -- i'll prove once and for all that it's mine. when jeb bush, who's totally in favor of common core, weak on immigration, right? very weak on immigration wants to let people come in, although

now he is using anchor baby. he put out a memo you cannot use anchor baby. now because i used it, he's using it. we're leading in florida. can you believe it? and we're leading big in florida. and you know it's really amazing. i said, well, florida, i love florida, it's a great place, right? right. but florida, we have a governor and we have a sitting senator and i'm killing them. explain that. obviously they're not doing a very good job, because that shouldn't be happening. you know, if this were another country, we could maybe call for an expedited election, right? i would love that. can we do that? can we do that? i'd like to have the election tomorrow. i don't want to wait. >> jeb bush super pac hired a plane to fly over trump for higher taxes, jeb for pres. you know, it just kind of shows

the perspective big versus small. he shouldn't have done that. trump's personal jet also did a flyover at the stadium, dipping its wing toward the crowd. so let's try to get to the democratic side really quickly. >> let mike finish up and then we'll go. >> real quickly. >> just one thing. if you go to a trump rally and you listen to trump, we just heard clips of trump there in alabama. if you go to a rally, you listen to him and talk to the people who attend the rally, sure, he does the immigration stuff and he does the one-liners about all the other candidates. but his candidacy at this stage, it's not just ideology that's driving his popularity. it's disgust with the process. >> it's not ideology at all, because there's not -- he just thumbs his nose at ideological inconsistency. as i said this weekend, he doesn't even feel like he needs to complete sentences on stage

because they know what he's talking about and he knows what he's talking about and they sort roaring. it is all attitude and all -- i mean it's not ideology, i don't think. >> it's the one campaign that's doing that with joy. i mean even on sanders side -- >> which is a huge deal, he's not boring. >> he's not boring and the rest of them are. and he's not angry. >> that's important. >> he's speaking out -- he's speaking out against a government that everybody hates. >> so now to the new wave of speculation surrounding vice president joe biden's plans for 2016. "the wall street journal" reports that biden is now leaning toward getting into the race for the democratic nomination. the paper reports that he is, quote, weighing multiple political, financial and family considerations before making a final decision. meanwhile, nbc news has confirmed that biden huddled privately over the weekend with massachusetts senator elizabeth warren at his d.c. residence.

that comes as politico reports on a possible division a biden run would create within the white house ranks with so many obama supporters already signed onto the clinton campaign. one staffer tried to sum up the mood. even though their mind is with clinton, their heart is with the vice president. clinton's sagging poll numbers in key states coupled with constant questions over her e-mail server has no doubt thrown fuel on the biden fire. here's the advice jerry brown gave the democratic front runner yesterday. >> this e-mail thing, it has kind of a mystique to it. you know, an e-mail is just an utterance in digital form, but it has some kind of dark energy that gets everybody excited. so i don't know how, it's almost like a vampire. she's going to have to find a stake to put right through the heart of these e-mails in some way. >> and hillary clinton is going

to cut her hamptons vacation short this week to get back on the campaign trail. it comes, mika, as reuters is reporting there are indications that some of clinton's e-mails are filled with the type of information the state department automatically deems as classified from the outset, whether marked or not. of course hillary has been claiming all along they never sent anything classified. of course david petraeus charged for classified information without any markings on it. john heilemann, break down what's happening on the democratic side. the clinton -- this clinton e-mail controversy just keeps growing by the day. >> well, they -- the clinton campaign last week engaged in a self-described, relatively aggressive effort to try to address these issues. it's the first time they have kind of done that in the course of the week from secretary clinton doing her press avail in las vegas to various clinton

spokes people going out and doing interviews. there was a video last week, they did a call at the end of the week and at the end of the week i think they were in a worse place than when they started the week. >> the detroit news calling for a special prosecutor, the des moines register hammering her in a way that will vote iowa voters. >> so the investigations proceed and the facts that come out of this reuters thing raises a lot of significant questions. reuters basically saying any time a secretary of state has a conversation with a foreign leader, that becomes -- and wants to report back on a private conversation with a foreign leader, that's automatically according to the state department should be called classified and they apparently on the basis of their independent review of some of the e-mails have seen a number of them that include that kind of information. >> yeah. >> so the questions of substance being raised are overshadowing the efforts to try to beat it back, whether you call it spin or whatever. the public relations campaign is being superseded by the progress

of the story in terms of actual facts. >> a lot of it, mika, the public relations campaign really has depended on people listening to what the clinton spinners are saying, never reading the newspaper, never paying attention to any of the news coverage over the past six months and the ignoring of objective facts. our friend, howard dean, yesterday was on a sunday show and it was unbelievable what he was saying. none of it true. >> she didn't break rules, she didn't break policy. this is a strategy that is basically dependent on people not being smart, which i think is really condescending. it's -- you know, she did break rules, she did break policy and they're kind of moving the conversation to whether some were classified or not and that middle ground. let's back up to whether or not having your own server at your home and then based out of the bathroom in colorado was policy. was it? can anyone here at the table

tell me that she followed policy? look me in the eye and tell me that she followed policy and didn't break rules. >> of course she didn't. willie, we keep going back to the u.n. press conference. what she said at the press conference, so many of those things have been proven wrong, including classified information. maybe it's marked. it's classic clinton, where they're trying to parse every word. it's -- >> move it along. >> it's just really hurting her. >> i was away last week and watching from a little bit of a distance and i was struck by how the approach seems to be, to be dismissive of this or make jokes about it or make light of it, but this is a serious issue in an age where china every day is trying to hack government employees. we've seen stories time after time going after that information. this is deadly serious. and if they don't treat it that way, they're going to be in a lot of trouble because it's not going away. the fact that they say it's so complicated, people can't sift through it, voters out there have common sense, they know. this doesn't add up.

the idea that you would take all your government work and put it on a private server without telling people and assume that's okay -- >> breaking the policy of the white house and the state department. >> that's not going to fly. >> and the white house, by the way, says they have broken the policy. they say it off the record. >> we're going to continue to try to get it on the record because at some point they have to answer the question. >> i've got to say what's pathetic as well as the state department that's not answering questions about documents, whether she signed them or not, trying to cover up for her. when you have john kerry, we know john and like john, but when john kerry comes out and says a couple weeks ago, well, i'm sure my e-mails were hacked by the chinese and russians as well because he knows what's coming. john kerry knows that we're going to probably find out that hillary clinton's e-mails on her home brew server were hacked. and so now the whole administration seems so

desperate to elect her that they're putting that consideration, i'll say it, ahead of protecting classified secrets. and there is going to be a reckoning. i've been saying it here for some time. the state department either starts working to get the truth out or they continue down this road of trying to cover up for her. and there is no in between. and they have been acting shameful thus far, and they need to be transparent. just tell us the truth. that's all we want, state department, stop covering for hillary clinton. just tell us the truth. maybe you can exonerate her, but just tell us the truth. answer the press's question when they ask you every day, did she sign the document before she left. just answer that question. but they're not doing it because right now the state department feels like their responsibility is not at getting the truth out and being transparent about what went on with classified documentation, their responsibility is to protect the former secretary of state, and

it's really sad. >> but what you're saying and what willie said gets to the ultimate point of vulnerability for the clinton candidacy. if you listen to what's out there, a lot of -- the e-mails, some of it goes over people's heads. what it does do, it shows her inability to deal effectively, honestly and quickly with the e-mail situation. and what that does is open the door to the past, to the clintons, to the baggage that they bring to everyday campaigning. and elections are about the future. and this just opens the door to the past. that's all it does. it's another thing with the clintons. >> it also opens the door to joe biden and elizabeth warren. i can't believe we didn't talk about that, your two favorite topics. i think that was the story more than the clinton this weekend that electrified the political world, the notion of joe biden meeting by their -- by biden camp's description, a last-minute decision to suddenly

leave wilmington and fly down to -- train down quickly to washington to have a tete-a-tete. the reading of tea leaves was intense this weekend in the political class. still ahead on "morning joe" international markets are already in turmoil this morning. >> oh, boy. >> are we in store for another dismal day for the dow? >> china just keeps going down. plus "morning joe" is the place for presidential candidates. governor chris christie will join us on set. and sir patrick stewart is going to be here. we'll talk about his new comedy straight ahead on "morning joe." first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> a lot of us had another nice weekend, but the northwest and northern rockies is still the problem. today is going to be a dangerous fire day. over the weekend the winds were light. bad air quality but at least the fires weren't spreading too much. today is a different story. the winds are going to pick up,

the air is going to mix and they are very concerned about these big fires spreading rapidly this afternoon and this evening. here's a map showing where all the current fires are located, including much of washington, northern idaho and into montana. as far as today goes, red flag warnings are in the red. bad air quality shown there in the gray. the other story that we went into the weekend with was hurricane danny down to a weak tropical storm heading over the leeward islands this morning. we actually want rain in puerto rico. we're going to get a little bit but not enough. they're in a historic drought down there in puerto rico, so danny is not a problem at all as we look towards the future. as far as the other story, cool air in the great lakes, enjoy that. 50s today as far south as st. louis this morning. it's warm and humid in the east coast. if you're in the washington, d.c., area, showers and storms this afternoon for you all the way back up to upstate new york. and then on tuesday afternoon, we'll bring you some storms into areas from boston up into maine. overall, it's a very quiet weather week ahead for many of us and still very warm too. leave you with a shot of new york city, where today will be

day 46 in a row, a record, for the most 80-degree days in a row. "morning joe" when we come back. you are looking at two airplane fuel gauges. can you spot the difference? no? you can't see that? alright, let's take a look. the one on the right just used 1% less fuel than the one on the left. now, to an airline, a 1% difference could save enough fuel to power hundreds of flights around the world. hey, look at that. pyramids. so you see, two things that are exactly the same have never been more different. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. they don't worry if something's possible. they just do it. at sears optical, we're committed to bringing them eyewear that works as hard as they do. right now, buy one pair and get another free. quality eyewear for doers. sears optical

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maybe that's why they like -- we're talking about trump and you say there was -- he was like faulkner. the sentences just ran on. >> it's mesmerizing. >> you can read the entire transcript of every statement, every speech he makes. there's not a pause, there's not a comma, there's not a period. it's just stream of consciousness. >> bold stream of consciousness. >> and you know what the real thing about -- everybody is with him every step of the way. >> they know where he's going. >> the head nodders. >> willie, we were talking about some of the things, never going to eat oreos again. nabisco moving to mexico. he'll never touch another oreo. if you watch that entire speech, he goes off on tangents just for two seconds and comes back. he was talking about genetic, how he has great genes in his family like secretariat.

actually he wasn't that good. "usa today" the three americans who foiled what could have been a massive shooting aboard a paris-bound train on friday met with president francois hollande this morning. he awarded spencer stone, national guard special alec skarlatos and anthony sadler and thanked them for their heroics. here's what they had said in a stunning news conference. >> alek just hit me on the shoulder and said "let's go." ran down, tackled him, we hit the ground. alek came up and grabbed the gun out of his hand while i put him in a chokehold. he kept pulling more weapons left and right. >> in the beginning it was gut instinct. >> i saw spencer get up, i saw alek get up and those were my close friends. i couldn't let them go alone. >> he seemed like he was ready to fight till the end, so, so were we. >> it was unbelievable.

you can't help but think of todd beamer and those guys that saved the capitol. but "let's go." they ran ten meters towards the guy with an ak-47 and -- >> pounded him. >> and just pounded him into the ground while he was cutting one of the guy's -- >> almost severed his thumb. >> one of his thumbs off and the guy still was gripping him until he passed out. it was unbelievable. >> not the first time americans have helped out in europe. >> no, not at all. >> and, you know, the french actually did appreciate it. they were -- >> you know, spencer, despite the fact his thumb was almost cut off and he had been cut on his own neck, he is credited with saving the life of the other passengers whose throat had been cut. he put pressure on the wound as his thumb was falling off. these guys are incredible and we can't wait to welcome them home as heroes. let's move to the "new orleans times picayune." a state trooper is in critical

condition after being shot in the head during a traffic stop. the man suspected of shooting him is behind bars because of the help of civilians. 13-year veteran steven vinson was responding to a report of a suspected drunken driver about 50 miles east of the texas border when this happened. police video reportedly shows him approaching a pickup truck in a ditch trying to talk a man out of the vehicle and then the man shoots him with a shotgun. officials say a passing driver saw vinson lying on the ground so he stopped and wrestled the gun away from the suspect. a second driver help and they used the injured trooper's handcuffs to subdue the man. now he is behind bars and the trooper is fighting for his life. >> my trooper, steven vincent, he's up on the third floor right now and he's fighting for his life. when you think of what happened just a few short hours ago, it's not something he should be doing right now. here's a good guy. his wife, katherine, his son,

ethan, 9 years old. here's a guy who loved to run. he ran marathons. and as we're standing here, the doctors tell us his organs are in great shape, his heart is there, his lungs are there, they're all ready to work, but the gun shaushot wound to his h has messed up his neurological output and simply, his brain is just not telling the rest of his body what to do. >> police say the suspect had been stopped many times before and received, quote, numerous duis. the state police superintendent says he'll now face charges of attempted first-degree murder of a police officer. all right. from the "atlanta journal constitution" hundreds of people showed up at maranatha baptist church in plains, georgia, sunday hoping to hear former president jimmy carter deliver his sunday school lesson. it comes after his moving news conference that cancer had spread to his brain. the turnout was so big that

carter gave a second lesson at a nearby high school for about 250 people. the 90-year-old spent less than five minutes recapping his cancer diagnosis before saying that's enough of that subject and beginning his lesson on faith, love and relationships. coming up, the president's deal gets new support from a top democrat in the senate, as iran unveils a new ballistic missile. david ignatius joins us next on that. plus, the must-read opinion pages. unbelievable! toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine proven to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. look at the footwork! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness, itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain. smash it! make the call and ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. new larger size now available.

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34 past the hour. senate minority leader harry reid has come out strongly in favor of the nuclear agreement with iran, diminishing the chances that congress can block it. reid says he will do, quote, everything in my power to make sure the deal stands. he is the 27th senate democrat to come out and support. "the washington post" counts 31 senators in favor or leaning that way, just three necessary of what's necessary to uphold a presidential veto against a resolution of disapproval. meanwhile, iran unveiled a short-range solid fuel ballistic missile at a ceremony attended by president rouhani. the government says it can more accurately pinpoint targets and aired footage of it launching on state tv. a recently passed u.n. security council resolution to endorse the nuclear deal called on iran not to undertake any activity

related to ballistic missiles capable of delivering nuclear weapons. iran says none of its micssiles are designed for that purpose. >> that's comforting. >> great. joining us now, we have columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. also political writer for "the new york times," nick confessore. >> it looks like we have so many op-eds across america today filled with clinton stories. the detroit news, clinton e-mail probe needs special prosecutor. ruth marcus from your "washington post," stop digging the hole, secretary clinton. goes on and on. and then "usa today," clinton e-mail controversy is no joke. that's from the "usa today." we're going to read something on donald trump and the republican party, but first this really

does seem to be rising so much to such a greater level than people like james carville and howard dean would hope. you have "the des moines register" coming out with a very, very tough editorial too. it's like something happened this weekend where this story seems to be reaching critical mass. >> i don't know about critical mass, joe. it certainly is persisting. the issue that's at the heart of this that i think has the potential to do real damage to secretary clinton's candidacy is the question whether some of the e-mail traffic back and forth to her private server was classified and whether she had any knowledge or control over that. that's a serious issue. it's taken seriously in government always, not just in this case. there are arguments this is just political really don't hold up there. but we don't know yet what the circumstances are about the classified e-mails. she argues that these were out of her control, limited. i'd like to wait for more facts

before going to that issue, which i think is the real heart of this. >> all right. let me -- we'll get to the ballistic missiles in just a moment. "usa today" says it this way and i'll just jump to the point of it. one of the many reasons that it was a bad idea to mix personal and business messages is well known to anyone with an e-mail account. as hard as you might try, you can't control what comes into your inbox. and if you are the secretary of state, that's inevitably going to include some sensitive information. contrary to the clinton camp's assertion that the controversy is a lot of nonsense, federal computer security is no joke. regardless of whether clinton broke any laws, her decisions about the server represented bad judgment bordering on recklessness. >> that's the "usa today" editorial. of course the problem, david, is that she left everyone who worked with her no choice but to e-mail one account.

an account that she had not protected. >> it's an example of very bad judgment. it certain lies all but side tracked every other issue in this phase of her campaign. i do think when i look at the daily newspaper headlines how many terrible things are going on in the world. i'd like to spend a little more time thinking how clinton would spend on those and less on the e-mail issue. i want facts on the circumstances of classified information being used. yes, it's bad judgment. is it the most important thing in the world that we could ask clinton about right now? probably not. >> well, i think she has to answer that question, nick, before we go on and see whether she can be trustworthy on other issues or not. david petraeus obviously had his career side tracked for what many people think may be less than that. >> we've seen all these investigations and prosecutions of classified material of reporters, of high commanders in the military.

you know, so it's important for the same standards, i think, to be exacted on everybody. it's hard to imagine, right, i mean she decides she's going to have all of her e-mails on a private server for work, which is a terrible idea, first of all, right? and she hasn't admitted it yet. second of all, she's the secretary of state. she's going to have classified material coming over. it has to happen, right? the whole thing doesn't make sense. >> it doesn't at all. >> it just doesn't. >> all right, david, i mentioned before we got into this about iran announcing their new ballistic missiles and saying that they're not really being used for the purposes that we should be concerned about. what do we make of this, especially in light of the deal, looking like it might get through congress? >> well, it's the kind of timing that will infuriate members of the obama administration that just negotiated this deal. this is a relatively short-range missile. its range is said to be 500 kilometers, about 300 miles.

it can attack targets in the region, conceivably reach to europe. the agreement that's been negotiated specifically says iran will not be allowed to build weapons -- missiles designed to carry nuclear weapons. read that however you will. one of the weaknesses in this agreement is that it will allow iran after eight years to gain missile technology under the agreement. the other thing that i thought was significant today was the announcement that harry reid, the former senate majority leader, has decided to support this agreement. he got an awful lot of pressure back home to do otherwise and fought it off. when you look at the numbers, it seems pretty clear to me that this -- the president's veto is going to be sustained and that this deal is going to go into law. senate aside, the house, the votes are so overwhelming to

support the president's veto that i think you just start with the house, see that it's going to carry there and that's the story. >> there you go. up next, he was the top lawyer in the land for president bush. we'll ask former attorney general michael mukasey whether he thinks there should be a criminal investigation into hillary clinton. we'll be right back with that. i hate cleaning the gutters. have you touched the stuff? it's evil. and ladders. sfx: [screams] they have all those warnings on 'em. might as well say... 'you're gonna die, jeff.'

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(vo) at&t and directv are now one- bringing your television and wireless together- and taking entertainment to places you'd never imagine. (rick) louis, i think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. well, this is an honor. 45 past the hour. joining us now, former united states attorney general under president george w. bush, michael mukasey. good to have you on the show this morning. >> good to be with you. >> it's so good to be with you. a lot of people were buzzing last week about the "wall street journal" editorial page where you say i believe, because going back and talking to lawyers in the intel community, if you look at the u.s. code that applies, that this is a case that could involve criminal issues.

>> it's possible. >> it's possible. but you say the main thing is just a breach of common sense. >> right. you don't as secretary of state, you're handling the top foreign affairs and foreign policy issues for the government. nothing that isn't sensitive gets to you, it gets resolved below. you don't put it all on a private server. i mean that's sort of like your surgeon doesn't need a sign in the o.r. that says "wash your hands before you operate" in order to know to wash your hands. >> a lot of people in the news media have been going around giving an incorrect standard for this, which of course shouldn't be a shock. but they talk about she had to know or should have known that it was classified material. there actually is a standard that is more relevant here, which is grossly negligent behavior. >> yeah, grossly negligent. >> would running america's top secrets through -- and

classified information through a home brewed server reach the level of being grossly negligent if a lot of classified information was exposed. >> a properly instructed jury could find that it did. >> that's the polite way to say it. it seems to be -- it seems to fit the definition of what's grossly negligent. >> what would be the differences, general, in what happened with john deutch, former director of the cia, general petraeus who was indicted and thus far in the clinton e-mail? >> the difference is that so far we haven't established, as far as i know, that there was in fact classified material there, although i think they found some and there may be more, and that she knew that it was classified. that's all a matter of something that's going to be found one way or the other. that's, i think, a ground ball. there's going to be classified material there. she's already said that she directed that this be done. >> right.

>> i think the more dangerous part of this from her standpoint is not so much the placement of the material there as wiping the server, because there are other statutes that deal with what happens to you if you are a custodian of public records and you among other things alter them or obliterate them. number one, that's a felony, but that statute makes you unqualified -- disqualifies you from holding any further office in the united states and she's running for a further office under the united states. >> you're saying there's statutes on the books now -- >> yeah. >> that would prohibit that? >> title 18, 2071. >> oh, yeah. >> in our house we speak of little else. >> you know, that is the thing -- i think that is the most, most disturbing is that she -- and again, they give no straight answers, but we are led to believe that they wiped the

server clean. and if they wiped the server clean, then yes, as public custodians, first of all, they ignored the 2009 reg and if they wiped the server clean, there's -- there's legal -- there are legal problems in that. >> even if they didn't actually wipe it clean so that it can't be detected, if they tried, that's enough. >> what is your personal feeling, not as a former attorney general, not as a lawyer, but john deutch lost his job as director of the cia merely for taking classified material home. >> and he had a cia computer but it wasn't cleared for nonclassified information. that was -- he was pardoned by president clinton. >> but as a former attorney general, i mean you know people are trying to crack into what you're saying, what you're sending on e-mails. what's your personal feeling about this? >> i don't know what it was that was sought to be concealed,

whether it was -- whether it had to do with the foundation, whether it had to do with speaker fees or something, but i can't believe that this was done simply to hide e-mails about the wedding and yoga. i mean if she was that deep into yoga, she's be wearing saffron robes rather than pantsuits. >> it's stunning. and again, mika and i were just asking what's going on here? first of all, why isn't the government -- why isn't our government that's supposed to protect us and protect classified information, why aren't they moving more aggressively to be transparent and tell americans the truth? the state department won't even answer a simple question on whether she signed a certain document before leaving office regarding classified material. we can't get -- did she wipe the server or not? we don't know. did she direct her people to

wipe the server? she won't admit. did she sign the document? >> she hasn't signed the document. she did not sign the document. >> how do you -- >> how do you know that? >> because they have already found that she didn't. the state department has said the document is not there, she didn't sign it, so she can't be held to have falsified the documents and she didn't sign it. >> they say there's no record of it. >> okay. i'm willing to say that -- >> how do you lose a secretary of state's document? how does that happen? >> you don't. >> you don't. >> right. you shouldn't. but regardless of that, i mean that's small because she's already signed a statement that she submitted to the court as the judge directed under penalty of perjury saying that she had produced everything. >> which, of course, she didn't produce. >> well, we'll find out when we find out what was on the server. >> yes, we will. i'm sure your family will be talking about that. what's the code that you and your family --

>> title 18. it's dinner table conversation. >> that's hot. >> okay. former attorney general -- >> 2071 was the one. >> that was what you discussed over dinner last night. 2071. >> we were looking at 2072. >> it's also pillow talk in the household. former attorney general michael mukasey, thank you so much. still ahead, governor chris christie joins the table. plus jon stewart's retirement didn't last long. we'll show you him stepping into the wrestling arena? next on "morning joe."

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i'm getting another call. ed harkin. what? oh, my god! listen, everybody, ling wong, the panda, is giving birth. getting corningstone over there right away. the network is picking up a feed. i want a shot of that panda being born. >> fred willard. we love fred. >> panda watch. a giant panda gave birth to twins hours apart just days after zoo officials confirmed she was pregnant. they are her second and third in two years after she gave birth in august 2013. the pandas not yet named, must be reared apart though both will spend time nursing with their mother. >> that's so cute! >> unbelievable. >> just gave birth hours after

confirming she was pregnant. >> jon stewart. >> he's not retired. >> wwe super slam at barclays in brooklyn last night. jon is an avid wrestling fan, not just a spectator last night. no, no, he gets in. the former "daily show" host got into the ring during the main event with the help of a folding chair and took on john cena. >> wait a minute, jon stewart? >> what is jon stewart doing? >> jon stewart? >> you don't see that on the preshow. if you need any help i'm there. >> remember, stewart has had issues with rollins on his own "daily show." >> jon, don't do that! you cannot do this! >> jon stewart has no business being in there, none. it's a world championship match. get him out of there! >> i can't believe this. oh, come on! >> wow! there's so much going on there. >> so much.

>> stewart and seth rollins had a feud going. you think he's going to rollins and he goes to cena and rollins gets the belt. >> it's all made up. that is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen. >> what do you mean it's all made up? >> that is -- >> what are you talking about made up? >> what's wrong with you? >> guys, that's awful. >> go back and show it again. you see the chair right there hammering the abdomen. >> next you're going to tell us that like george washington didn't cross the delaware. >> what is that whole thing? >> or chop down a cherry tree? or have wooden teeth. >> that's as real as life gets. >> god, thank you, america. >> in august. >> thank you, baby jesus. coming up at the top of the hour, forget roll tide, it was roll trump on friday. the front runner has his biggest campaign event as he invades alabama. plus we're just moments away from our interview with chris christie. we talk with him how he gains traction and gets to the top tier of the republican

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so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. who cares if it rains, right? right? you know, if it rains, i'll take off my hat and i'll prove -- i'll prove -- i'll prove once and for all that it's mine. you know, if this were another country, we could maybe call for an expedited election, right? i would love that.

can we do that? can we do that? i'd like to have the election tomorrow. i don't want to wait. >> welcome back to "morning joe." you guys figuring it out? john heilemann, nick confessore, david ignatius all still with us. joining the conversation, jeff greenfield, good to have you back on board this morning. >> so it looks like one of your alternate histories actually came true with donald trump but nobody would have believed it. >> i just tweeted out if anybody says to you they saw this coming six months ago, you are talking to a liar. >> exactly! >> beyond -- you couldn't be more right. this is why when a year and a half out people say here's what's going to happen, you just have to say really? if this isn't a lesson in holding back a little and letting events play out, i don't know what is. >> what's incredible is the very people that said trump will never run in a million years, trump will never tell us how much that he's really worth. >> trump's not serious.

>> so once he gets in, trump will never be relevant. we've had some very esteemed guests get up in a huff when we said he will be relevant. now they're saying trump will never win the nomination. who knows? nobody knows. >> thank you. >> and all we have been saying and have been blasted for being trump apologists is we don't know. who are any of us -- >> winnie goldman wrote a book about hollywood and the theme was nobody knows anything, in terms of predicting a movie or what's going to work. what i think the central mistake all of us made is we saw as a bug what other people saw at a feature. the very personality -- you can't take this guy seriously, americans like gary cooper, they like john wayne. they don't like braggarts, they don't like loud mouths. but in this case he's talking to people who his supporters say it's about time. frankly that immigration plan of his, it is both unconstitutional

and nuts. but his supporters say at last we've got somebody who's willing to do something. >> jeff, and where are the gary coopers and the john waynes in the republican field? >> well, anybody is quieter than donald trump. >> you know what i'm saying. >> what we're saying is who is the viable alternative? if somebody likes that trump gets up there and fights back against the idiocy of washington, d.c., and the $18 trillion debt and entitlement programs that aren't sustainable and a foreign policy that was a wreck for the past 15 years because we either did too much or we're too passive, who -- who's out there? this republican field seems awfully thin, even with the 48 people they have in there. >> could we go back to what you said a minute ago? it's still august. and i think the fact is that the great majority of voters, even if they all watch the debate because trump is a star, haven't

begun to really think about that. the question for me is will any of these other candidates provide an alternative that is both kind of within the bounds of what we think of as politically potent and speaks to this new move. the second thing is will voters, will voters, when they actually go, actually take this period -- you can say who you are for now, actually vote for somebody this unusual. >> look at the latest tracking survey from reuters. donald trump is doubling his nearest competitor with 32% while all but jeb bush remain stuck in single digits. an analysis by "the new york times" predicts trump has real staying power in the race. the review of recent national and early state polling finds him leading among tea party supporters over ted cruz, leading with evangelicals over mike huckabee, and leading with moderate republicans over jeb bush. >> the thing is i want people to see, keep these numbers up. willie, the thing that always drove me crazy about politicians and drives people crazy, they

calculate so much, right? what i found was when i walked into a room, the second you walk into a room, people either get you or they don't get you. i've walked into a room where i said, you know what, i could talk baseball for the next hour and i'm going to get every vote in this room. i've walked into other rooms where i've known immediately i could deliver the gettysburg address and not one person here will ever vote for me. put those numbers back up and you see donald trump goes to iowa and says to evangelicals, i've never asked god for forgiveness. that is at the core, that is at the core of everything they taught us in the baptist church from day one, that you ask for forgiveness. jesus will forgive your sins and it is arrogance above all else in the face of god that is a blaspheme. donald trump says that and he's ahead among evangelicals, he's

ahead of moderate republicans despite the fact he's talking about repealing the 14th amendment. >> and look at the three names that he's up against. >> in style. >> each name is the poster child for the category that they're running in that. so ted cruz for the tea party, he's the tea party favorite. he's being doubled up by donald trump. mike huckabee, same thing for evangelicals and jeb bush is the moderate. he's right in the middle, he's going to keep his head down and win and donald trump is beating him in that category as well. jeff, i'll ask you this question. when the news first game that donald trump was entertaining the idea of running, we didn't say but a lot of people said we're not following for this again. then he gets in. then this is a summer fling, the expiration rate is labor day. clearly that's not happening. so if you believe that the air is coming out of this trump balloon, when does it happen, how does it happen, why does it happen? >> i don't necessarily believe that it happens if, as the campaign moves closer to voting,

voters take a sober second thought, whether it's buyer's remorse. the danger for the other republicans is every once in a while voters do something really weird. they elect the next wrestler as governor of minnesota. they recall a sitting governor and put in arnold schwarzenegger. and what we don't know, we don't know if voters are going to say it's time to really do this. th time to throw the bomb. we don't know. >> john heilemann, you look at those numbers, you look at the "new york times" story, it doesn't make sense to political prose. >> we talked about this on friday. the combination of the fact that he is campaigning with such joy and he looks like the happy warrior and the fact that he is not spouting poll-tested bromides i think appeals to a lot of people. i think jeff's point, though, is as all the campaigns puzzle through how to deal with this, there was a lot of talk about

who's going negative against trump. bush, walker, rubio. i think none of them are going to for a while because people recognize that you can't take trump down by telling people who like him that they shouldn't like him. people are going to have to figure out a time when it becomes time to pick a president time and they can somehow make the argument that you were right to like this guy, but he might not be the person that you want with his finger on the nuclear trigger and that argument will be a subtle, more complex argument you have to make than merely he's bad, he's dumb, don't vote for him. >> exactly. but right now he's unpredictable. >> he is. >> and it does not help that as a republican i could tell you what's going to come out of every republican's mouth since 1980. i know. scott walker, i love scott walker. but when scott walker starts talking, i know exactly what he's going to say. i know it's poll tested. i know it's market driven.

i know they cut and paste it. marco rubio, who everybody says is the great hope. >> i was watching him on c-span. >> marco rubio, it is so obvious that everything he says is poll tested and market driven. >> and practiced with a room of people. >> and they say do this and then read it. that's why when they ask him questions about rape, incest and the life of the mother he gets twisted up in a thousand knots. when you ask him questions about the 14th amendment, even when he says he supports the 14th amendment, he makes sure that it's so twisted up in knots that we're still trying to sort through what he's going to say. marco rubio, i am a lawyer. i studied law, i practiced law for a long enough time to know how to pick apart the most convoluted cases. marco rubio deliberately just goes in. okay, rape, incest -- what is it? no, he said this. seriously as a lawyer i will line up all of what he said. it just -- it's just twists and turns to try to confuse people.

and all of these candidates -- ted cruz, i like ted cruz, but ted cruz, it sounds like a political speech. and we've heard it all since 1980. >> and as you said, it's totally predictable. part of the reason why people like stories is they want to see what happens next. and with trump, you never know what's going to happen next so people are kind of sitting on the edge of their seat kind of waiting to see. i have no idea what's coming next. i want to know what's going to happen. >> so this is why we have a lot of instability on both sides. "the wall street journal" is reporting that vice president joe biden is now leaning toward getting into the race for the democratic nomination. the paper reports that he is, quote, weighing multiple political, financial and family considerations before making a final decision. meanwhile nbc news has confirmed that biden huddled privately over the weekend with massachusetts senator elizabeth warren at his d.c. residence. that comes as politico reports on the possible divisions a

biden run would create within the white house ranks. with so many obama supporters already signed on to the clinton campaign. one staffer tried to sum up the mood, telling the site, quote, even if their mind is with clinton, their heart is with the vice president. and another day, another big crowd for bernie sanders campaigning in south carolina over the weekend. and while in new hampshire he talked about america in crisis. take a listen. >> if you think about it, it is very likely that our country today if you throw in climate change as well probably faces more serious crises than at any time since the great depression. that's the bad news. the good news is that these crises have been caused by human decisions. we can transform america by making better decisions. >> let me go to nick.

nick, another thing i noticed yesterday was you had a lot of people on the sunday shows talking about bernie sanders and crowds of 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 and saying of course he'll never win the nomination. who are these people? why don't they let the voters decide who will win? bernie may be a long shot. he's getting 30,000 people at events. >> listen, i agree, joe. it's not our job to say who should or should not be the nominee or who -- who can win or who can't win, it's not our job, right? what i'm seeing on both sides, right, is remarkable passion for candidates who are unscripted, who are not canned, who have terrible hair, right, who are not the model of a normal candidate. it's amazing. people are tired of politics. politics is terrible. campaigns are terrible. it's scripted, it's canned, it's blow dried and trump and bernie sanders are not. >> bernie sanders getting 20,000, 30,000 people out there. we just don't know how this is going to end.

i remember in 2006 and 2007, i mean i will say it's one of the first times i got something so terribly wrong. there's no way barack obama is ever -- the clintons are going to grind him into dust. and then i saw his first quarter reporting on money and that day i go okay, never mind. you never know until it happens, right? >> well, he and trump are getting the same size crowds out there. it still remains unlikely that he would defeat hillary clinton, but who knows. i mean the gap is huge at this point but it's closed over the last few months. but i think as you and nick rightly point out, people who -- i don't know what the agenda is, but people who are dismissing any challenge to hillary clinton i find a little bit fishy. >> let's talk about that with david ignatius. david, obviously you've known joe biden for a very long time. this is a difficult decision for joe. but you look at some of those poll numbers. they have moved in swing states and certainly in general

election matchups and i guess they may see a path forward. >> well, to think about biden, try this thought experiment. imagine that donald trump gets the gop nomination. it's not inconceivable now. and think who's the kind of candidate who could beat trump. not just beat him, really wipe the floor with him, and the answer is joe biden. joe biden is the person who knows how to speak to people in that same direct, blunt language that trump uses but in a less antagonistic way. biden has actually been there for decades in key decision-making areas. he's a natural, nice, ordinary guy. he has a story of human suffering, grief with his family members. i mean, you know, i think the biggest strength of joe biden when you look at him is that he could shred donald trump if it ever came down to it. >> and he too has joy. >> he does.

>> like donald trump in a different way, joe biden has joy. you can't -- we know both of them. you can't -- and it's like -- you know, hillary clinton was asked why did you go to the trump wedding. and she said the truth. it's fun. the guy is fun to be around. joe biden, he's fun to be around. >> he is indeed. >> he's joyful. >> the question that i ask myself -- i talk to myself a lot -- i put myself in the old job i used to have as a political op before i became pure. what could he say in his announcement speech, the rationale as governor cuomo used to say. the truth is, i think, that his most effective argument would be she's going to lose, and she's got too many taints on her character. can you make that argument within the context of a partisan primary? the republicans can jump on it, but if you're a democrat saying about your present secretary of

state implicitly, i think, she doesn't have the character, she thinks she's above us. is that an argument? >> i don't think so. i think you have to say i love her, i respect her, i've worked with her for so many years. america owes her a great debt of gratitude. one of the best secretary of states in my lifetime. >> but. >> there are too many issues at stake. obamacare's very future rests on who the next president is going to be. at the supreme court a conservative in the white house for eight years will do away with roe v. wade, a conservative in the white house for the next eight years will appoint people to the supreme court that will forever lock in, you know, the extreme views of gun rights. god, as we'd say in the south, god bless her, god love her. >> god bless her heart. >> god bless her heart.

but he's got to do that. loves her, respects her, but this isn't about her and it's not about me. it's about the country, it's about democratic values, it's about progressive values, it's about not turning this country over to extreme supreme court justices and the koch brothers. and that will probably get you an applause line even if it's a cheap shot. >> david ignatius -- >> i mean do you agree? is that the way forward? >> i actually think that you've offered the best argument and said what's at stake is too big to risk losing this white house and then the subtext is and she's damaged goods, yeah. >> david ignatius, nicholas confessore, thank you very much. jeff greenfield, thank you as well. your latest book "if kennedy lived, the first and second terms of john f. kennedy in alter tat minate history." up next, new jersey governor chris christie joins us next right here in the studio. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. remember pa.

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lawlessness in america and around the world under barack obama, sanctuary cities engulfing americans in crime.

drugs running rampant and destroying lives. isis beheading christians. iranian radicals and nuclear weapons. now hillary clinton thinks the law doesn't apply to her. really? we need a strong law enforcer as president. someone who says what he means and means what he says. we can do it. let's make america a leader again. i'm chris christie, and i approve this message. >> okay. well, he's here and i'm here. >> amazing. this is fabulous. >> that's a new one. that was a new national campaign ad from our next guest, republican presidential candidate governor chris christie of new jersey. >> so, you know, everybody is writing these things, poor chris christie, nobody is paying attention to him, he can't even get a dog to look at him. we had six months left -- we've got six months left. we're talking a lot about trump because trump is a fascinating character and he has -- he's sort of a revolution of sorts in politics. but as i say to donald when i talk to him, we've got six months left. so the question is, you pick up

two, three percentage points a month, you're there, you win. how do you gain traction with all of this madness going on in both parties? >> you just keep working. the bottom line is the way these primaries always get won are by the folks who work the hardest and develop an organization and then get the vote out, joe. you know, there's nothing new about politics now. >> so what are you doing to do that? you're holding a lot of town hall meetings. >> a ton of town hall meetings. 17 of them so far in new hampshire. they're really well attended and really well received. we were in iowa this weekend and got the endorsement of the speaker of the house of iowa, the highest elected official that's endorsed anybody in iowa so far. and we just keep working hard. that's the way you do it. and again, remember, herman cain was winning this time four years ago. rudy giuliani was winning this time eight years ago. there's a lot of things to happen. john kerry was buried back in 2004. >> john kerry was buried in like november. >> yeah.

so it's fine. i understand it's vacation time. we need fun stuff to talk about. that's fine. we'll just keep working and talking about the issues that matter and then get where we need to get to. >> your ad looks like you're focusing on the general, the one that pounds hillary clinton. >> well, she deserves to be pounded. the fact is she doesn't think she's accountable to the american public. she won't answer questions. take away any of the individual problems that she has, she won't answer questions. and she dismisses things. you know, and then tries to make jokes that someone obviously wrote for her about snapchat. oh, they disappear by themselves. >> what's the key question here? >> there's a few. >> let's set this up. you're a federal prosecutor. i've read the statutes because people in the intel community have sent me the statutes saying look at these standards. why -- people in the intel community, people saying why isn't she being prosecuted because i would be in a federal penitentiary for a decade if i did it. so what are the key questions that a federal prosecutor would

look at? >> well, let's go in order and this is the way a prosecutor would do it and the way i did it for seven years as a prosecutor. first, why did she have a private e-mail server and why was she conducting all of her business over a private e-mail server. i was a federal prosecutor for seven years. they told you from day one, you do your business on your government server. you have private e-mails you want to send, you can have your own e-mail account. she said colin powell had an e-mail account. of course he did, but it wasn't his own server. she had her own server. why did she do that? second, when she was under subpoena from the house of representatives, why did those e-mails disappear? third, classified information. >> by the way, let me ask you about the second one. what's the liability attached to the fact that when you have documents subpoenaed they are then wiped clean? >> potential obstruction of justice. and then third, the question is on classified information, what did she and her staff do in the handling of classified information. david petraeus, one of the great generals in the history of this country was prosecuted for this.

sandy berger was prosecuted for this and hillary clinton won't even answer these questions. >> john deutch. >> yes. and hillary won't even answer these questions. she goes back to the typical clinton response to every criticism. oh, it's all politics. well, it's not all politics. she has not stood up and answered the questions in a forthright way and exhaustive way. >> shouldn't we get the answer to these questions from the state department or the white house? >> aren't they answering these questions? >> that's a good question. the president should order complete cooperation by everyone. >> why isn't he? >> you always wonder, joe, but it probably means he's got something to hide. this president has set a standard in washington of lawlessness. what i mean by that is this, if you don't like the law, don't enforce them. if you don't like the immigration laws, don't enforce those and let there be sanctuary cities. if you don't like the marijuana laws, don't enforce the marijuana laws in certain states if they don't feel like

enforcing them. and now as it applies to hillary clinton, she can do all of her work over a private e-mail server, even though that's against the law and against public policy and this president just decides which laws he wants to enforce, which ones he doesn't. executive orders on immigration or not. but the american people are frustrated that the government doesn't work and the government can't work if you don't follow the laws. >> before you get a chance to take on hillary clinton, potentially hillary clinton, you've got to fight your way out of this primary. it's a long fight, it's a long climb as you said. when you're out there at the town hall meetings, what's the issue you hear about the most? what are people asking you about, is it jobs, is it immigration? >> the top three things i hear about are national security. >> isis. >> isis and other terrorist threats to the united states and just our role in the world. i hear about russia and hear about a. people are concerned about america's role in the world. second, immigration. i think at core it's people are frustrated about the fact that the government doesn't seem to be able to do its job. and third, the thing i hear

about third most out in iowa and new hampshire is student debt. people are really concerned about student debt, about how this is affecting their children's lives. and it kind of couples with the weak economy that this president has put into place because they feel like kids are coming out with huge debt and can't get jobs to help pay off that debt. >> i know we're republicans, we're supposed to be hands off. it is absolutely offensive how much colleges cost. >> it's incredible. >> offensive. i had a guy i was talking to last week who came up to me and said my daughter's first year at college was $45,000 a year. we took out loans, we did everything we could. by her senior year, it was $65,000. this is obscene. >> it's totally obscene. and i've -- first of all, i just paid the bills, i've got two in college. between princeton and notre dame this year it's $122,000 for the two of them. secondly, here's what i've suggested out there that we need to do on this, joe, is we've got

to make these guys accountable. have you ever seen a more opaque bill than the college bill? it's three lines. tuition, room and board, other fees, $62,000. if you got a bill like that at a restaurant, if you went to a restaurant and had $150 and it just said food, $150, you'd send the bill back to the waiter and say tell me what i'm charged. instead college costs, we write it. they should have to detail what they're spending their money no and they should unbundle it. the reason these costs go up, there's no market test on college tuition. if i said to my daughter, sara, who i just dropped off at notre dame, if i said at $62,000 i don't think notre dame is a value anymore so we are going to send you some where else. after the crying and slamming her door shut, we're sending her back to notre dame if we could possibly afford it. families are having huge debt and the kids are overwhelmed by it and parents are overwhelmed

by it. by the way, the government is ripping people off too. they're charging interest at 7% or 8%. >> 9 in some cases. >> and you can't refinance it. you can refinance your mortgage. one of the things we should change is they can refinance those loans at market rates so the government is not making money off of kids who are trying to struggle through in this lousy economy that the president and mrs. clinton has given us. >> willie asked you what the most common threads were in town halls in iowa and new hampshire. i'm curious how you experience the difference between iowa and new hampshire. what's different? >> they're very different states, different tempers and temperaments in those rooms. compare/contrast. >> iowans are a little more laid back. iowans are more sitting, keeping their arms folded, let me listen now, let me see. new hampshire residents are a little more flinty, a little more pushy. >> engaged. >> they want to ask you something and they want to do it now. they don't want to wait. where iowans are a little more laid back, a little more let me

sit back and listen. that's why these polls are meaningless now. four years ago, 68% of the people in iowa said they decided in the last month. and so, you know, everybody needs to just take a deep breath because what people are really upset about and i think what you see in the reaction i was watching your spot before i came on, what people are reacting to is the fact that washington stinks. >> yeah. >> and they really hate it. they just hate it. and they want somebody who's going to go there and stand up. >> you're talking about donald right now. they see a guy that is punching back. >> listen, they see somebody who's never been any part of it. i think that's more of it than anything else. because you listen to some of the things donald says sometimes and think people don't really -- aren't really hearing that. i mean i was watching him the other night on friday night when i got to iowa and he's just kind of stream of consciousness talking and he says, you know what i'm really good at that nobody writes about? military. i'm good at that. i'm a tough guy, right, right? and everybody cheers. well, okay, i don't know exactly

what that means but what people are relating to is the fact they don't like what's going on in washington right now. they hate it. they don't like this president and what he's done, they don't like congress and what they're about and it's about both parties. so that's what they don't like. i think it's less about him than it is about the situation. >> you've dealt with him through the years, right? >> i've been friends with donald for 13 years. >> he's a fun guy. >> listen, when you go out to dinner with donald trump, which i've done on a number of occasions, it's an exhausting experience. right? it is. i mean that in the nicest way. >> what people don't know about donald is, and this is what hillary said, they went to his wedding because he's fun. but it's just like -- it is stream of consciousness. and they go, oh, by the way, this reminds me, these are the same chick peas that we have over in scotland at my course, greatest course in the world. and it is stream of consciousness. but you leave there with a smile on your face because he is, he is charged up. >> and exhausting. >> are you -- are you having

fun? >> yes, i am. >> because you have -- you've been around the block by now. >> well, so have you, mika, how about that. >> are you talking about my age. >> heilemann is laughing, he knows she's been around the block. >> wait a minute, what are you talking about? >> you've been beat up now. >> that just makes you better. >> at first there was a lot of vigor, it was fun, it was joyful. i'm wondering if the joy is still there and where in some areas perhaps are you less joyful but a little smarter. how have you evolved? >> i'm definitely smarter than i was when i first sat down here in 2010 and i'm much better because you go through difficult experiences in your life and they make you better and make you tougher. i'll tell you what the last 18 months have done for me. they make you realize that no matter how hard you get punched, if you're willing to get back up and go to work and put one foot in front of the other, you're better. you're better. that's what americans are experiencing every day. they're getting hit by this lousy economy, they're getting hit by a government that's totally ineffective, they're

getting hit by government that lies to them and won't answer their questions. and they're expected to get up every morning, go to work and put one foot in front of the other. the least they can expect of the people they're asking to be their leaders is to do exactly the same thing. so i've vetoed more tax increases than any other governor. they want somebody who's going to washington, who's going to stand up to congress and say, all right, it's time to get to work for the people of the country. i think i'm one of the guys that can really do that. but the fact is my job now is to go out and try to sell that to folks. am i enjoying myself? absolutely i'm enjoying myself. when you're flipping pork chops with terry branstead over a hot grill in iowa at the iowa state fair, how can you be having more fun than that. >> exactly, governor chris christie -- >> willie and i agree outside the holiday inn -- >> while chain smoking.

>> of course you're chain smoking. >> joe, have you done pork chop on a stick? >> yes, i have. sensational. >> not yet. >> it's the only way. >> when i was eating that pork chop on a stick yesterday, i was thinking about you. i was thinking there's nothing joe scarborough -- you know, the stick is not a stick. >> what is it? >> it's the actual bone from the pork chop. you hold that bone and bite off a bit of that pork chop. it's the new white meat. tender, juicy, fabulous. >> okay. >> it was incredible yesterday. it really was. >> so you're on the soap box. where are you yesterday? >> i was out there for five days before you got there. but i like the idea of you looking at a pork chop on a stick and thinking scarborough. >> i was thinking there's nobody in the media today who would love pork chop on a stick more than joe scarborough. >> governor chris christie, thank you so much. we continue our political

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do we believe in the gene thing? i mean i do, right? you know, i do. like they used to say secretariat doesn't produce slow horses. actually secretariat wasn't one

of the best if you want to know the truth. >> oh, my god. >> oh, my god. the greatest horse of all time. >> well, but he would know. >> a mammal athlete some people argue. >> what's that? >> a mammal athlete. >> i've always argued that. i actually remember -- >> i mean not that great. >> '73. no, no, i actually remember '73. i was a young kid he likes seattle slew maybe. i don't know. i guess he's talking about breeding or something. >> he was. but just his gratuitous 40-year-old cheap shot at a horse. >> it was such a remarkable sporting event i don't have -- i love sports. i don't have any pictures in my house of sporting events where i didn't take the picture. no like ali or whatever except for one. and it's the picture of secretariat and the rest of the field at belmont and you just can't see them. >> 31 lengths. >> the most extraordinary -- >> so you thought. >> but he wasn't that good.

>> so i thought. let's bring in chuck todd right no now, matt radar ofoderator of " press." so we have chris christie here. let's put up the reuters poll really quickly. chris christie does a very good job, he's chris christie. and that should resonate. a lot of people love marco rubio and think every time marco comes on it's the best president performance they have ever seen. ted cruz is doing very well. he's an sga candidate. let's stop pretending that he's not. there's ted cruz. ted cruz is doing really well. he's raising a lot of money. he can't get oxygen. scott walker was the great hope for so many conservatives. scott is flat at 5%. what's -- and rand paul, god, i mean what do we even say about rand paul. >> let's add up trump, carson, i

still want to add up trump and carson together, that's 40, throw in fiorina, 43. the sort of outsiders. >> and throw ted cruz on there and you're close to 50%. you do, because ted has been fighting against washington from the second he got to washington. what's going on? >> if cruz were -- if we were stock, that would be the stock i'd be buying right now on the conservative lane, that that's the guy -- >> i've heard a lot of smart people say that. >> if iowa -- because he's sitting on some resources. and at some point, things will shake out and he's the one that you feel could do evangelicals and tea party conservatives, which would be the perfect storm in iowa if he got off the ground. but you brought up walker. i don't know if anybody has had a worse august right now. we have seven more days, anything can happen in this race, we know that, and hillary clinton hasn't had a great august either. but she's still at least ahead on her side. walker, walker is losing altitude and you have to wonder donors who thought, okay, maybe walker is the perfect combination of conservative that

can merge the base and the establishment. and if you -- i think a donor is not going to come and take a second look. that's the fear. >> i don't think -- >> john heilemann, i'm very straightforward about how i vote, who i like. i said last time i voted for ron paul as a protest against big government republicanism. i can tell you at the beginning of this process, i know scott, i like scott, i know most of these guys and women. scott walker has my kind of republican. >> that's what you meant wanted right? >> three times in wisconsin, he's not from the deep south, he's a midwest guy, nice guy, a reagan republican. and yet i'm sitting here with a lot of people a lot more powerful with me that write big checks scratching our heads going, like you said, this has been a terrible august for the guy that we like. >> but i don't think it's a fear, i think it's a reality. i think both the walker campaign and rubio campaign are having a lot of trouble now with donors.

there's money -- they are having not -- i don't mean money troubles as though they'll run out of money but their fund-raising has really, really fallen off the table this summer. summer is a hard time to raise money for all campaigns. but if you think about where this has hit among candidates who had high expectations about in terms of raising significant amounts of money, rubio and walker are hitting a wall because donors are unhappy with a va vie tretee of things but t had so much of their oxygen stolen by trump. it's not as big a problem for bush. actually if you look at those polls -- >> bush is in a pretty good position. >> bush is not in a bad position, but it is becoming right now, the dynamic is and partly fed by the fact that trump is attacking bush all the time, it's becoming this two-person race. they are the only ones getting a lot of attention. >> i still think it's a little bit of a risky strategy here because he's already pulled a few romneys. said things -- anchor baby. >> women's health care.

>> yeah. but it has drowned out walker and rubio. and who's the greatest threat to bush? rubio. let's be realistic. >> do you think rubio and walker's performances have changed, though? >> rubio's haven't. the difference -- >> walker is the one that was struck performancewise. >> so, joe biden meeting with elizabeth warren. is that interesting? >> i think it's -- >> more interesting than anything else? >> i think it's interesting not for what everybody is -- it's interesting because this is biden desperately looking -- realizing there's another person in the race, bernie sanders. and if -- he doesn't want to start at 15. biden wants to run. i think we now know this, right? he wants to run. you don't leak out this meeting. but he wants to start at 35. he doesn't want to start at 15. and if you get elizabeth warren sort of de facto unofficial endorsement, maybe he can create a ground swell.

there's not a ground swell yet. >> also on your show yesterday, howard dean was talking about hillary clinton's e-mails saying no rules were broken, no policies were broken. that is true? >> well, it depends on your definition of what's a rule and a policy. there's no laws that have been broken. >> no, he didn't say that, he said no rules and no policies. >> that's the part of this that's just not true because there was a policy on the table. dean said something else, though, and i'm sure the clinton campaign wasn't happy about. he was on there sort of representing them. that she's been too lawyerly about this. and that -- that is -- i think that is 100% true. they have attacked this as a legal problem, not as a political problem. and until they start viewing this as a political problem, they're never getting out of this. >> how big of a political problem is it? this week you had the des moines register with a tough op-ed, the detroit news saying there needs to be a special prosecutor, you have democrats saying enough, get this behind you. >> when you're bill nelson, who's not a bomb thrower, go public, when you have john

yarmuth, this is -- by the way, there is one major election this year, kentucky governor. and i've heard on the ground kentucky democrats, it's hard enough dealing with obama and coal in kentucky as a democrat, and this is a seat that democrats think they can hold. this is beshear, he's not running again. mitch mcconnell's nemesis got the them nation nomination. i have heard on the ground this hillary thing is the last thing they need. that they are -- if they lose this race, they almost would attribute it more to hillary than obama. so that's your definition of a political problem. >> chuck todd, thank you very much. up next, the takedown that may have prevented a tragedy. we'll hear from the three americans who stopped a man with an ak-47 on a passenger train. we'll go live to paris straight ahead. [ nurse ] i'm a hospice nurse. britta olsen is my patient. i spend long hours with her checking her heart rate,

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the three americans who foiled what could have been a mass shooting aboard a paris-bound train on friday met with french president francois ohaund this morning. joining us, kelly. the heroes welcome comes as we're learning more about the suspect. >> absolutely, willie. it's only been three days since this happened. it's been an intense three days for the three young americans who were on that train. they said yesterday that they still can't quite believe that it's all happening. they never in their wildest dreams imagined that they would be taking down a gunman on a train. never imagined they would be invited to the presidential palace in paris. yet here they are, going home with france's highest honor. arriving at the president palace in paris, three modest americans. spencer stone. alek skarlatos and anthony sadler.

receiving france's highest honor, a hero's welcome in the city of light, for their briavey in disarming this man on a train who was armed with an ak-47, a pistol, and a box cutter. ayoub el khazzani, a 26-year-old from morocco, known to authorities in spain and france for alleged ties to islamic extremists. in their own words, the americans giving the reporters a play-by-play of the harrowing incident at a press conference. first, the three men hear a gunshot and the sound of breaking glass. they turn and see el khazzani struggling with an automatic weapon and immediately tackle him. during the struggle, they say he pulled out a handgun and a box cutter. slicing spencer in the arms. the three men finally render him unconscious, tying him up with the help of other passengers. >> entered the car, we saw him cocking the ak-47. do something or die.

>>ee seemed like he was ready to fight to the end. so so were we. >> spencer was injured in the assault but ignored his own injuries to help a fellow passenger identified as french american mark mugalian, for the three men, friends since middle school, it was all for one and one for all. >> i saw spencer get up, alek get up, and those are my close friends. i couldn't let them go alone. >> if it wasn't for them, i would have been dead. >> alek and spencer are both headed to germany now. spencer still needs rehabilitation on the injaerj on his hand. anthony is headed home, we believe, with his parents. and of course, willie, with that medal. >> kelly, thanks so much. an unbelievable story. >> unbelievable. >> great. >> the actions they took. you don't have a lot of time. you duck behind your seat or your charge them. >> they said all the french attendants on the train ran. got scared and huddled in a room. locked themselves in. >> they did the opposite.

>> still ahead, the grim sides we're in for another gut-check day on wall street. we'll talk about it after this. ♪

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up next, a political world's biggest star fell on alabama. we'll take a closer look at donald trump's rally that drew tens of thousands in mobile. >> plus, the joy of joe biden. why the vice president may be another step closer to a 2016 run. and why he may be just the

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you don't worry about donald trump. he's a force to be reckoned with, but you don't reckon with him by doing with it. i just quit answering donald trump questions. he's getting ten times the amount of coverage that any other candidate is getting. the dumbest a candidate can do is give him more coverage by answering all the trump questions. >> good monday morning. >> goes down smooth. >> have a little coffee there. >> i love that. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> i love that everybody goes, well, he's getting so much more press coverage.

>> yeah. >> yeah. because he's having rock shows and is ahead of everybody by like 30 points. so are we supposed to be covering rand paul at 2.6%? >> stop. >> like having meetings in kentucky or marco rubio, that the press is oh, he's so great because he delivers a student council speech. >> who here watched the mobile, alabama, rally live friday night? >> of course. >> that's unbelievable. >> my parents. yes. >> friday night, it's just crazy. >> like at 9:00. >> we had people over. >> and you watched trump. >> put the tv on. donald trump's face was on and people stopped and turned up the volume. people who don't like trump turned up the volume. some don't like him, a lot of them did. and listened to the entire speech. football stadium full of fans. got me excited for s.e.c.

season. but it was remarkable. it was vintage trump. people who are complaining there wasn't a lot of substance should probably get over it at this point. this is what he does. >> they're not getting over it. you watch the sunday shows, the same people who said he will never enter the race, and then, well, he will enter the race, but he won't be relevant. he'll be relevant, but he won't be a flash in the pan. then with talk on the shows every week, this was the last week he was going to collapse, are now saying, of course, he can't win the nomination. and that's everybody -- it's like, seriously, you have the mainstream media, mike, that have been dead wrong. dead wrong about the two biggest political stories of the year, one, trump. two, hillary's e-mail. >> here's a question with regard to trump, i think, just from sensing it from the broadness of his demographic that backs him. not just one particular slice of the electorate. >> it's everything. >> a broad demographic. the question is, what does

donald trump's success say about the rest of the field? >> yeah. >> that's what somebody told me, john heilemann, yesterday, whose name i won't reveal. i'll let him say it himself, but he's one of the best known political observers saying this is the most overrated field. most overrated field since he's been covering politics. that you have a couple of good candidates, but we're seeing the failings on the campaign trail. of scott walker and of -- well, just about all of them. except for like, let's say ted cruz and one or two others. they're not what everybody said they were going to be. and that's why trump's running over everybody. >> this field benefits enormously by comparison to the field in 2012. >> exactly. >> which was the worst field of anybody in our lifetimes. it looks good compared to that field. >> it does. >> but it's not the greatest, most formidable field in a

generation or since world war ii. it's just not. >> let's look at this reuters/ipsos poll that came out. look at these numbers. donald trump at 32%. jeb bush, half of that, at 16%. carson at 8%, huckabee, 7%. listen to this, scott walker, everybody saying scott walker is the guy, 5%. marco rubio, marco rubio completes a sintance and everybody says he's the greatest ever, 5%. ted cruz, 5%, carly, 3%. chris christie, 3%. rand paul, who we all talked about last year, 3%. look how flat, willie geist, everybody is after you get, well, actually, after you get past jeb. >> particularly looking at marco rubio and carly fiorina who we said as well the morning after the debate in cleveland had great nights and probably would

see some kind of surge out of it. that has leveled off or dropped, actually. >> where's john kasich on that poll? >> as well. >> below that. another guy, i love him. but the media loves john kasich. john kasich is 30 points below donald trump. usually, you get that bump when you first announce. he's at 2%. i'm not saying, he may not -- maybe he jumps up to 5% or 6% or maybe higher, but right now, people saying there's no way donald trump is going to win the nomination are seriously in a state of denial because they have embarrassed themselves so much over the past several months. >> fascinating you read the press accounts of his rise, and no one will just say he's succeeding and doing well. they'll say, well, it's because of this. it's because of this. it's going to dive eventually. >> people in new york, nobody ever can give trump any credit. they mock him. i'm talking even before this.

if people know you're -- you know donald trump, oh, ah. you know those buildings aren't really his? oh, he just gets paid millions and millions to put his name on them? you know that. he succeeded over the past 30 or 40 years, extraordinarily well, and yet people are always trying to knock at him. that was in manhattan. now the same thing's happening in washington. >> now the narrative seems to be to me the media narrative, anyway, this is fine for now, but wait until people start voting. then we'll really see if they support donald trump. >> why don't they stop? why don't they just cover it. why don't we all just cover the story. let's cover the clinton story, the trump story, and let the actual events speak for themselves. this analysis by the "new york times" predicts that trump has real staying power in the race. their review of recent national and early state polling finds him leading among tea party

supporters over ted cruz, leading with evangelicals over mike huckabee, and leading with moderate republicans over jeb bush. what's so vexing to the establishment about this is that he says absolutely nothing that would lead him to be leading. >> he goes to a church and he says, i don't have any reason to ask god for forgiveness, and he's leading among evangelicals. >> it's funny. >> it s but you bring up a good point. why can't people get out of the way and cover the story. we have been mocked and ridicals for several friends for saying he could win. >> they're saying you're on trump's side. no, we're saying we're going to watch this with no sort of how things go and this may not go so badly for him. >> he could win. >> he could. >> but it's very hard for a lot of the media to admit this. and snuck up on a lot of campaigns as well. >> speaking of someone who said

from the beginning something real was going on with trump and he could take a substantial chunk of the republican electorate. there is a challenge he faces to winning. there's that he has this extraordinary large number of people in the republican party who said they would never vote for him. again, not saying -- >> he also could not win. >> i'm not saying he won't win. i'm saying as a candidate who has to face a challenge of how to get to 50% once the field is down to not 16% but down to two, if you have over 50% of people in the party saying they would never vote for you, that's a challenge he'll have to overcome. >> there are a couple things. first, he's moved obviously in the general election, he was losing by 30 or 40 points a couple weeks ago. now he's beating hillary clinton in pennsylvania, in florida, in ohio. also, new voters that are coming to the polls. this also may change things substantially. may not, mike, but at the same time -- >> i got to get some elements.

>> okay. >> as we said, trump took his campaign to mobile, alabama, on friday night, despite the heat and even a chance of rain, police and fire officials estimated over 20,000 people showed up at the stadium, making it the largest rally on the republican side so far. >> wow, wow, wow. unbelievable. unbelievable. thank you. you know, now i know how the great billy graham felt, because this is the same feeling. we love billy graham. we love billy graham. who cares? if it rains, right? right? you know, if it rains, i'll take off my hat and i'll prove. i'll prove -- i'll prove once and for all that it's mine. when jeb bush, who is totally in

favor of common core, weak on immigration, right? very weak on immigration, wants to let people come in. although now he is using anchor baby. he put out a memo, you cannot use anchor baby. now because i used it, he's using it. we're leading in florida. can you believe it? we're leading big in florida, and you know what's really amazing? i said, florida, i love florida. it's a great place, right? great. but florida, we have a governor and we have a sitting senator, and i'm killing them. explain that. obviously, they're not doing a very good job. because that shouldn't be happening. you know, if this were another country, we could maybe call for an expedited election, right? i would love that. can we do that? can we do that? i would like to have the election tomorrow. i don't want to wait.

>> jeb bush super pac hired a plane to fly over with a banner, trump for higher taxes, jeb for prez. it just kind of shows the perspective, big versus small. he shouldn't have done that. trump's own personal -- also, did a fly over at the stadium, dipping its wing toward the crowd. oh, god. okay, so now to the new wave of speculation surrounding vice president joe biden's plans for 2016. the "wall street journal" reports biden is leaning toward getting into the race for the democratic nomination. the paper reports he's, quote, weighing multiple political, financial, and family considerations before making a final consideration. meanwhile, nbc news has confirmed that biden huddled privately over the weekend with massachusetts senator elizabeth warren at his d.c. residence. that comes as politico reports on a possible division, a biden run would create within the white house ranks with so many

obama supporters already signed on to the clinton campaign. one staffer tried to sum up the mood, telling the site, quote, even with their mind is with clinton, their heart is with the vice president. clinton's sagging poll numbers in key states coupled with constant questions over her private e-mail server have no doubt thrown fuel on the biden fire. here's the advice that california governor jerry brown gave the democratic front-runner yesterday. >> this e-mail thing, it has kind of a mystique to it. you know, an e-mail is just an utterance in digital form, but it has some kind of dark energy that gets everybody excited. so i don't know how it's almost like a vampire. she's going to have to find a stake and put it through the heart of these e-mails in some way. >> and hillary clinton's going to cut her hamptons vacation short this week to get back on the campaign trail. it comes, mika, as reuters is reporting there are indications some of clinton's e-mails are

filled with the type of information the state department automatically deems as classified from the outset, whether marked or not. of course, hillary has been claiming all along they never sent anything classified. david petraeus charged for classified information without any markings on it. john heilemann, break down what's happening on the democratic side. the clinton -- this clinton e-mail controversy just keeps growing by the day. >> well, the clinton campaign last week engaged in a self-described relatively aggressive effort to try to address these issues. it's the first time they have kind of done that in the course of the week from secretary clinton doing her press in las vegas to various clinton spokespeople going out and doing interviews. brian fallen in a video last week, a call at the end of the week, and at the end of the

week, they were in a worse place than when they started the week. >> detroit calling for a special prosecutor. the des moines register this weekend hammering hard in a way that will hurt with iowa voters. >> the investigations proceed and the facts that come out of the reuters thing i think again raises questions, reuters basically saying any time a secretary of state has a conversation with a foreign leader, that becomes, and then reports back on a private conversation with a foreign leader, that's automatically, according to the state department, should be classified. apparently on the basis of their independent review of some of the e-mails that have become public, have seen a number that have that information. the questions of substance being raised are overshadowing the efforts to try to beat it back. whether you call it spin or whatever. the public relations campaign is being superseded by the progress of the story in tact. >> a lot of it is so horrible. the public relations campaign really has depends on people

listening to what the clinton spinners are saying. never reading the newspaper, never, never paying attention to any of the news coverage over the past six months. and ignoring of objective facts. our friend howard dean yesterday was on a sunday show and it was unbelievable what he was saying. just none of it true. >> she didn't break rules, didn't break policy. this is a strategy that is basically dependent on people not being smart. which i think is really condescendi condescending. >> still ahead on "morning joe," an unparalleled story of hero m heroism. we'll hear from the three americans who preventing disaster on a train bound for paris. >> and sir patrick stewart is here to talk about his new show about trying to make it in the world of cable news. >> brutal. >> we understand how he feels. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 130 yards now...

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all right, let's take a look at the morning papers. usa today, the three americans who foiled what could have been a massive shooting aboard a paris-bound train on friday met with president francois hollande this morning. he awarded spencer stone, alek skarlatos and college student anthony sadler with france's highest civilian honor and thanked them for their heroics. here's what they said yesterday in a stunning news conference. >> alek hit me on the shoulder, said let's go, and ron don, tackled him. we hit the ground. alek came up and grabbed the gun out of his hand. while i put him in a chokehold. seemed like he kept pulling more weapons left and right. >> at the beginning, it was gult

instinct. >> i saw spencer get up, alek get up. those are my close friends. i couldn't let them go alone. >> he seemed like he was ready to fight to the end, so so were we. >> unbelievable. right? you can't hup but think of todd beamer and those guys who saved the capitol. but that just -- >> yeah. >> let's go. they ran ten meters. towards a guy with an ak-47. >> pounded him. >> just pounded him into the ground while he was cutting -- >> yeah. >> one of the guys. >> almost severed his thumb. >> and the guy still was gripping him until he passed out. it was unbelievable. >> not the first time americans have helped out in europe. >> no. >> no, no. >> and you know, the french actually did appreciate it. >> spencer, despite the fact his thumb was almost cut off and he had been cut on his own neck, is

credited with also saving the life of the other passenger whose throat had been wounded. these guys are incredible and we can't wait to welcome them home as heroes. >> let's move to the "new york times" peceuni. a trooper is in critical condition after being shot in the head in a traffic stop. the man who shot him is behind bars. he was responding to a report of a suspected drunken driver about 50 miles east of the texas border when this happened. police video reportedly shows him approaching a pickup truck in a ditch, trying to talk a man out of the vehicle. and then the man shoots vincent with a shotgun. officials say a passing driver saw him lying on the ground so he stopped and wrestled the gun away from the suspect. a second driver helped and the pair used the injured trooper's handcuffs to subdue the men. now the man is behind bars and

steven vincent is fighting for his life. >> my trooper is on the third floor fighting for his life. when you think of what happened just a few short hours ago, it's not something he should be doing right now. here's a good guy. i mean, his wife, catherine, his son ethan, nine years old, he ran marathons. and as we are standing here and the doctors tell us his organs are in great shape, his heart is there, his lungs are there, all ready to work, but the gunshot wound to his head has messed up his neurological output. and simply, i guess as simply as i can put it, his brain is just not telling the rest of his body what to do. >> police say the suspect had been stopped many times before and received, quote, numerous duis. the state police superintendent said he'll now face charges of attempted first degree murder of a police officer. >> all right, from the atlanta journal constitution, hundreds of people showed up at a baptist

church in plains, georgia, sunday, hoping to hear former president jimmy carter deliver his sunday school lesson. it comes after his moving news conference that cancer had spread to his brain. the turnout was so big that carter gave a second lesson at a nearby high school for about 250 people. the 90-year-old spent less than five minutes recapping his cancer diagnosis before saying, that's enough of that subject and beginning his lesson on faith, love, and relationships. coming up on "morning joe," overseas markets are a mess already. fortune's leigh gallagher and dominic chu join us as we prepare for another gut-check day for the dow. here is a simple math problem. two trains leave st. louis for albuquerque at the same time. same cargo, same size, same power. which one arrives first? hint: it's not the one on the left. the speedy guy on the right is part of an intelligent system that creates the optimal

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it's 29 past the hour. it's kind of makes you nauseous. time now for business before the bell with cnbc's dominic chu. also with us, fortune magazine's assistant manager editor, leigh gallagher. an ominous start, really, to the trading day. >> i guess you could say some people expected this. other people didn't. after 1,000 points being shaved off the dow last week, we were looking for at least maybe some kind of stability. maybe not as much selling. it didn't start off that way last night when stock futures opened. we were looking to maybe be down

90, 100, 110 points in the dow. all of a sudden, the current check is dow futureerize indicating what could be anywhere from a 550 to a 650-point down day for the dow jones. that's just a start. again, this is not that there's panic at all in the market, but there is certainly an overwhelming sense, a bias, if you will, for the markets to be lower from here. during times like this, it's very difficult to go out there and tell people that things are going to be okay. we don't know what's going to happen here with the overall markets. what we can say right now though is that we know people are coming back from vacation. we know that people are maybe looking at their 401(k) statements online or in paper form and trying to figure out what's going on. the reality that we have seen this type of move before. we saw about a 10% poll back in the broader stock market for the u.s. last fall, mid-september to mid-october, when the ebola scare was happening. the last time we saw a more

pronounced move it was about 17% to the down side. you have to go all the way back to april to october of 2011. >> china's driving all this? >> you know, china's driving what main traders tell us is china is driving a large chunk of this. it's not all china. there's obviously many parts to this overall story but the world's second biggest economy, if it's showing signs of weakening, slowing down, when their own stock market which was up by one point, the main benchmark for stocks in china, it was up by 60 points. it's given up all those gains. china is even worse. >> dominic, thank you so much, and leigh, here's the really bad news, the chinest communist government controls their market and it's still collapsed. >> that's the big fear because china has been trying to move towards more reliance on the private market. i mean, it really has to do that to sustain this super growth that china has been experiencing.

that's the big fear. are things worse than we think, everyone thinks? it's kind of a black box, you don't know. it's funny because the markets here really shrugged off a few plunges in china in july. it's when the government devalued the currency was unexpected and that's sort of what started this whole, you know, what we're seeing now. >> the energy sector at the same time. you take somebody like c caterpillar growing well because of china and oil, and then oil collapses. china collapses. >> both of those things, exactly. >> that's taking down a lot of companies. >> it's not just china, it's other emerging markets as well. there's so many companies reliant on that growth and way more investors are exposed to emerging markets than ever before. so any of those issues are going to be felt. i have to say, the economy here is okay. and it's important to keep that in mind. our economy is actually -- we are in the middle of this recovery. there's been this big mismatch

between the economy and the market, and that's now kind of -- some people are saying, hey, not so bad for that to come back more into line with things. maybe we're due for this, a little breather. it may not be that bad. as dominic said, we have seen this kind of fall before in the past couple years. things have been very calm the past couple years. we had it good. >> everyone sounds so -- what's the word? dominic and leigh, we have seen it before. >> you just can't panic. >> and you trail off, but we don't know what the hell is going on. >> we don't know what's going to happen. >> there certainly is not the bubble that there was in 2008. there's certainly not the bubble that there was in 2001. there's not the bubble out there that's ready to burst. the great irony is while we're getting all these horrible economic numbers and the economy was struggling to come back to life, the stock market was soaring. excuse me, now that unemployment is down and things look like they're doing better in the economy, now it's the market that's collapsed.

>> exactly, until last week, everyone was freaking about what is the fed going to do. now, ironically, the fed may not act in september because of this. we don't know, but it is -- i think the worst thing you can do in a moment like this is panic and make big changes. ride it out. >> are we waiting for what the fed does? if the fed decides not to touch interest rates, do we see a rebound? >> i think at this point it's sort of a double-negative. everyone will know the fed is not acting because things are really bad in the markets. that may not have the boost that's intended, but you never really do know. the upside, of course, is gas prices are really low again. and that has an impact on everyday americans, which, you know, who maybe have not participated as much in the stock market surge that we've seen. so you know, there's that. >> all right, dot, dot, dot, leigh gallagher, thank you very much. amy klobuchar will join the table. plus, the next frontier for sir

patrick stewart is cable news. he'll tell us about his latest show and what it's like working with mogul seth mcfarland. we're back after this. i hate cleaning the gutters. have you touched the stuff? it's evil. and ladders.

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can a business be...alive? join the table. we have democratic senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. she's out with a new book "the senator next door." i don't know how you have the time, but i'm glad you wrote it because you address a lot of issues women confront. why now, and what's the impetus for doing this book? >> well, part of this is my story of how i went from being a car hop and a pie cutter to ending up in the u.s. senate. i think it's really important for more normal people to run for office that come from regular backgrounds. i think that would help in washington, and i also wanted to make the point that not everyone is a cartoon caricature in the opposite corners of the boxing

ring. there are people who work together. i was telling joe i have a section called republicans and dems i have loved to work with. >> exactly. is he one of them? so, you also talk about not being cartoon characters, but being, you know, a woman and having pretty typical problems that women confront across the country. dealing with child care and issues that really get in the way of their own success, and their family's success ultimately. >> exactly. i think part of this was showing the that you can't do it all and i have tried my best but every woman who says they have perfect at doing it is probably not right. my daughter once said you're not a helicopter mom, you're a submarine mom. i said, that sounds cool. she said it means you lurk beneath the surface and come up unexpectedly. we try our best and a lot of moms have it harder than me where they're working several jobs and trying to make it home

for day care and the point here is that i wanted to tell the story to show that you can do this. you can overcome these obstacles. >> it's really tough. you talk about your husband finding out you were running for senate on the news. >> you liked that, didn't you? i kind of forgot to call him in the afternoon. >> it happens. >> was he okay with it? >> he was fine. very encouraging. and it was the last minute sitting senator, senator dayton, had decided not to run. i got asked about it immediately, i was the prosecutor. he kind of found out on the news before i called. >> you talked about being a prosecutor, you actually learned, it says that you learned how to not cry when you were prosecutor. how did you train yourself to do that? >> part is you have these horrific cases, murder cases, families torn apart. and you job as the prosecutor is to be strong. your job is to say this is what's going to happen. we're going to get this guy that did this, and he is not going to do this to anyone else again. in that way, you will -- the

memory of your loved one will not be forgotten. if you start crying and sobbing, you really don't give them that strength. over time, no matter how much people would cry, i would say, i'm not going to cry. i would literally bite my tongue once and it started to bleed so i wouldn't cry. >> important for you. what about the struggles as a working mother in terms of how it impacted the policies you pushed? what you brought to washington? >> well, i actually first got involved in politics when my daughter was born. she was really sick. i cauwas kicked out of the hospital. they had that rule, you could only stay 24 hours. i actually went to the state capital and i wasn't involved in politics that much, but iented up testifying and getting the rule changed. minnesota was one of the first states in the country that adopted the 48-hour rule. that's when i learned if i show up with a bunch of pregnant moms and the conference committee says when should that take it effect and the lobbyists want it

to be later and six pregnant moms say now, that's when it happened. >> one of the reasons you wrote the book is to give people expoexer to the fact an average person can run for office. you want more average people, ordinary people, to run for office. but it takes an enormous toll on your family at several different levels. the travel, the media exposure to you as a candidate. what impact has all of that had on you, but more importantly, your family? >> well, i think first of all, i have an amazing husband, and he has been there for me every step of the way. and he's helped with our daughter in ways that i think if he hadn't done that, it would have been hard to do this, honestly. the second thing is my daughter grew up with this, but i tried so hard to keep her out of it as much as possible. i still remember when she first asked me, i told her, there may be some negative ads. that's what happens in politics. in this dramatic 8-year-old way, she said, do you think they would put me in them?

i thought, you can't lose this moment. i said, well, if you don't practice your piano and they come to the recital. i was kidding. anyway, that was the end of it. she came out of it fine. you know, that's one of the things you have to do, try to protect your kids so they have a normal life. >> so, let's talk about presidential politics. how do you think this e-mail controversy is impacting hillary clinton's campaign? it appears to be affecting in the polls. there are questions that won't go away. are you with her, thinking it's just us? >> well, i am a supporter of hillary clinton. and i do think you have to look at the facts. she did give up the hard drive. she has produced over 30,000 e-mails that are being reviewed. and she has said she will talk about this at a public hearing or whether it's the debates, and i think there's going to be plenty of time to ask a lot of the questions that you raised on the show about this, that you all discussed. >> are they legitimate questions? >> of course, there are, but at

some point, there are severe differences between the candidates, of the two parties. and on one side, you have the lead candidate for president saying that, you know, kids that were born here that have lived in this country their whole life should suddenly be deported, uprooted and deported. that's a major shift. >> she has to get through bernie sanders first. >> of course. >> are there severe differences between hillary and bernie? >> i don't really see that on the policy side. they have obviously had different experiences. she made it clear, i believe, having known bernie. we came into the senate together, that he is speaking from the heart, and i don't think that's a bad thing to have. you're not just going to have one candidate in a race when there's 17 and counting on the other side. >> john. >> just putting aside the question, the importance of the work you do, how do you find the senate as a workplace? >> in this book, i have really worked hard to show that there are some people of good will. whether it was, you know, ted stevens helping me pass a bill so that you have safer swimming

pools for kids, whether it's sessions and inhofe helping me pass a bill to get kids adopted when their older siblings are adopted. people don't know those stories of good will and humor that happen all the time in the senate because it's so often they see people fighting on tv. so i actually have enjoyed being in the senate. i know that's going to make me 1% or something, and lately, we got an infrastructure bill done that mitch mcconnell negotiated with barbara boxer. those stories aren't always told. that's why i wrote the book. i want people to realize politics isn't all evil. >> the book is "the senator next door." senator amy klobuchar thank you so much for being on the show. good luck. there's the book. it's out today. >> out tomorrow. >> tomorrow, you can get it online. sir patrick stewart is next. stay with us.

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elect me on the air tonight. let me plead by case to the american people. >> no. why should i? >> because i have given you the last five years of my life. >> i don't care, walter. you are facing felony charges. your ratings have been [ bleep ] for months and your frontal lobes have turned to razorisira. >> it doesn't mean my frontal lobes are dissolving. what if i -- what if i had a priest absolve me on the air. you're the face of the network.

i'm going to take your billboard dpo down. >> no, no. bob, how about -- what if i gave you my jaguar in exchange for one more broadcast? >> well, that's how it works around here. >> is it? >> yes. exactly. >> new comedy, "blunt talk" that follows walter blunt as he attempted to conquer the world of american cable news. joining us, the star of the new series, sir patrick stewart. >> this is delightful because here we are with the authentic news program. >> that's definitely not true. >> he did not offer a jag. he offered a range rover. >> that's cool. >> whatever gets you on air. we obviously know the premise of it, but set it up for the viewers. >> walter blunt is a british

newsman, ex-military who left the british army because he was disillusioned with politics in the army and decided if he wanted to make the world a safer and better place, where better to do it than behind the news desk or writing for a journal. so he came to the united states. i think for cnn. >> yes, exactly. >> then he has his own show. and you met the head of the network there, played by romanny malco. he's a very good news man. he wants to make the world better. he even wants to try to make a few improvements to the united states. which is a little grandiose for an english journalist. and may remind you of someone else. but he has a pretty dysfunctional private life. >> to say the least. >> a few flaws. >> to say the least. >> uh-huh. >> a lot of the fun and the

humor revolves around that private life. >> you've got a dysfunctional news staff. you've got a train wreck of a personal life. >> that never happens. >> about the only constant in your life is a hard-drinking man servant named harry you have imported over from the uk. >> yeah. harry was with walter when he was in the british royal marines. and there was an incident during the faulkland war, which i'm not going to tell you about because we see it in i think episode seven or eight. this instant bonded these two men together and they will live and die for one another. and he provides chauffeur services, chef services, massage, training, sword fighting. certain illegal drugs. and all kinds of advice. i don't know what's happening here. oh, yes. >> you're getting spanked. >> he's whipping the alcoholic poisons out of my body with a

wet towel at this point. >> now, we see you here on ubs, which i think was the network that patty's network. so i think is an homage to that and to the howard beal character. >> you're right. jonathanomies, our creator and i talked about network many times and made references to it. ubs is indeed a very, very modest homage to that great move e. >> this is the first time you have starred in a tv comedy. why the change? why did you decide to make this jump? >> it was not a conscious career move, but i have been working with seth maccfarlane now for over 11 years. on a modest little animated series called "american dad" about cia agents. who are themselves quite dysfunctional. it turns out. seth came to be two years ago and said i have this idea. how would you like to do a half-hour live action comedy

show. i said, well, if you're going to be involved with it, i'm onboard. that was the end of the conversation. >> wow. >> but then the really significant thing happened. he brought onboard jonathan aims, brilliant wrielter and novelist. i had just read his novel "wake up, sir" and loved the writing. what you hear in this show is jonathan ames' voice everywhere. a very distinctive writer's voice. he gives us interesting things to say no matter how ordinary and everyday they are. >> i love it. "blunt talk" aired saturdays at 9:00 p.m. on star. thank you so much for being on the show. >> fantastic. >> great pleasure. >> we're excited. >> we'll be right back. when you do business everywhere, the challenges of keeping everyone working together can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help.

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don't turn back. introducing the new 2016 ford explorer. be unstoppable. ♪ this is my fight song... this is in fact manufactured partly by a press that's bored and partly by the republicans. here's the deal. she did not break any rules. she did not break any policy. she may have sent stuff that was classified that wasn't labeled classified, and it is well known that the state department and others are starting to get stuff classified after the fact. she can't be blamed for this. >> all right. nothing to see here. >> stop. >> move along. move along. what did you learn today? >> i learned that i'm going to try to keep learning it. what did you learn? >> apparently, sectariate, not such a great horse after all.

you know, just -- >> a stunner from mobile, alabama. donald trump. >> hadn't really focused on that, but now that i'm focusing on it, just another nag, apparently. >> amy klobuchar, united states senator from minnesota, we need more people with a smile in public office. >> really enjoys her job. >> really nice. >> you think there's a lot of people in washington who are miserable, and some candidates who are miserable, too. good to have chris christie on today. >> he did very well. and again, the thing that we all need to relearn every day is first of all, what we talked about with jeff. let's not try to guess what the voters are going to do. stop saying bernie sanders can't win or donald trump can't win or so-and-so can't win. it's not your job. that's the voters' job. i think that's important. and again, i also think that it's very interesting how the caseys spend their evenings at

home. >> very interesting. knowing it by heart. it's way too early, what time is it? >> "morning joe," but stick around. "the rundown" starts now. and good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. developing now on "the rundown," the three americans who acted fast and subdued a heavily armed gunman on a passenger train speeding through europe have just received france's highest honor this morning. french president francois hollande presented them the french legion of honor friday for their actions on the train carrying about 500 people. >> he had enough weapons and amunition for horrendous ga carnage. this is what he would have done but for your intervention. you took all the risks, including that of your own life. >> and we're learnin