this morning my question: just what is jeb bush's strategy? plus, head secretary hulian castro joins us live. but first, all of washington is asking, will joe run? good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. it's hard to imagine now, but joe biden is an extremely unlikely vice president. remember he ran in the 1988 race for president? he was out before the end of 1987. and when he ran again in 2008, he got less than 1% of the vote in the iowa caucus and dropped out before the new hampshire primary. perhaps his biggest headline from that time is from when he was still in the primary and described then-senator barack obama's candidacy in february

2007. >> i mean, you got the first, sort of, mainstream african-american who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, i mean, that's a storybook, man. >> man, yep. that happened. but candidate obama clearly didn't hold it against him, and in august 2008 announced joe would be his running mate. there was so much interest in who would be the robin to obama's batman that the campaign turned it into a way to amass contact information of supporters by encouraging people to sign up for a text message that would announce the decision first before it even hit the press. the campaign collected phone numbers that they then used to remind them to vote and to encourage them to sign up as volunteers. that text message was received by nearly 3 million people. and of course the rest is, well, history. until now. we now know that the vp is considering a run for the presidency.

biden has been reaching out to supporters and fellow democrats, including senator elizabeth warren to discuss a possible run. there are reports that his son beau's dying wish for his father was to run for president. with beau's death at the age of 46 just three months ago, it continues to weigh heavily on the vice president. >> if i were to announce to run, i'd have to be able to commit to all of you that i would be able to give it my whole heart and my whole soul. and right now, both are pretty well banged up. >> still, a lot of people are riding with biden. at least one big strategist has joined the draft biden campaign so far, if for no other reason for a great match-up to report on, i'd also like to see him run. but i'm also a political scientist. so let's look at the cold hard numbers of a possible biden candidacy. hillary clinton still dominates the democratic field, even when you include biden in the

numbers. the latest quinnipiac poll has hillary clinton at 45% with bernie sanders at 22% and biden at 18%. those numbers are pretty decent for someone who hasn't even declared yet and well above candidates like martin o'malley. they're also not great numbers for someone who is sitting vice president of the united states. let's not forget that biden has already run against clinton in a contest for the vice presidential nomination, and he didn't do well. he sometimes pulled 40 points behind clinton. on the other hand, biden does do well in potential 2016 general match-ups, even better than hillary. biden would beat former florida governor jeb bush by six points, senator marco rubio by three and donald trump by eight. the poll also has clinton beating them all. goodbye, narrower margins. actually, the only match-up that had republicans winning was rubio versus sanders. anyway, here's the key number

for me: trust. that recent poll asked voters if they find various candidates or potential candidates, quote, honest and trustworthy. for clinton, the answer is a resounding no. 34% think she is trust worthy, 61% say she is not. for biden, those numbers are almost flipped. 56% say he is honest and trustworthy while 33% say he isn't. when you consider the words most associated with hillary clinton are liar, dishonest and untrustworthy, ow, these are numbers that could make a biden bid possible. joining me now is contributor to the "washington post" monkey cage. i'm so happy to have you on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> even if i had to come to d.c. to get you here. tell me what you see as a matter of the data. is there a pathway, however narrow, for joe biden to win the nomination? >> i would say it's about as narrow a pathway as you could

imagine at this point in time. hillary is such a dominant candidate that she has something like 124 endorsements from the house of representatives. it would be an extraordinary lead in the primary and it would be an extraordinary achievement for biden to come from behind and beat that. >> isn't that, however, what senator obama did in 2008 when he first announced in 2007 he had a 16%, lower, even, than where joe biden is? >> it's true, but it wasn't as dominant as it is in 2015-2016. i just think for biden, it's already so late, right? he has to ramp up a campaign from scratch, and it's almost september before the election year. i think he also has to make a persuasive case that he's offering something different to the party than clinton is. sanders can maybe make that case, but biden, it's not clear what he's offering other than perhaps he doesn't have an e-mail scandal going drip, drip

every day. >> let me make a suggestion about what i think is possible just based on what i see on the numbers. when i look at biden's numbers with non-white democratic primary voters, they are double those of sanders. now, granted, they're only about a third of hillary clinton's, but they are astoundingly high with bernie sanders and he's not even made a case like a third-term presidency. can he get the primary voters? >> he would have to say something different than hillary clinton can say, and i'm not sure what that is. >> i'm barack obama's vice president? >> well, she was barack obama's secretary of state, and people are already dredging up things on biden's senate career where his positions were not exactly where minority voters would want him to be. at this stage it's so easy to be excited about a biden candidacy because he's not really running and he's not facing the scrutiny that a candidate would typically face. >> when you talk about how late

it actually is and you talk about how many endorsements, how much money there is with this huge fundraising edge, but we see it not only on the democratic side for hillary clinton, we also see it, for example, on the republican side for jeb bush. he has way more money in his war chest, yet it doesn't seem to be translating into the capacity to actually be leaving there. >> i think money is necessary but it's not necessarily the most important thing. what candidates want is to be building support among party leaders. typically that's the most visible of endorsements, but obviously they'll get it in other ways we can't see. what's happening on the republican side this year is the pace of endorsements is really slow, it's slower even than 2012, so in a sense the party really hasn't begun to coalesce around a front runner. that's good news from bush's perspective, but most republican leaders are sitting on their hands and not wanting to commit right now. >> let me ask you one more

question of how hillary clinton may be thinking about this. let's take a listen when she was talking about the lessons she learned in 2008. >> this is really about how you put the numbers together to secure the nomination. as some of you might recall, in 2008, i got a lot of votes, but i didn't get enough delegates. so i think it's understandable that my focus is going to be on delegates as well as votes this time. >> she's got a very clear delegate-based strategy. is that part of why biden will have a hard time finding room here? >> he has to be able to build a campaign that can execute that kind of strategy and has to be ready to run four to five months. for clinton that quote tells you she learned a major lesson, right? as a political scientist, we appreciate it, and the roles determine who gets the nomination, and in 2008 her campaign has been breathtakingly clueless, and now in 2015-2016,

they're playing the right game, a smarter game. maybe a game that in some sense ignores some of the day-to-day news chatter about polls and this and that. you can see it the same way in 2012. mitt romney was widely viewed as having this really rocky path to the nomination because of rick santorum was a primary in certain states. but if you watched the delegate, he was getting delegates on top of delegates on top of delegates and nobody was making a dent. >> let's talk about the primary and see what the general election would look like. you wrote that you believe hillary clinton's running mate is likely to be a man. i think that makes sense for a lot of reasons, including the fact there are many more men in the kind of elected office positions that one usually chooses a vice presidential candidate from, but what sort of man? who do you think is the right compliment is, in fact, hillary clinton were to become the nominee? >> it's clear it will be someone younger than she is.

she's probably on the older side of presidential nominees. they'll be looking at candidates from states where they think there might be some marginal benefit into winning the electoral college battle in that state. i don't know if there is a name to toss around, but i think it's the usual calculations. from a political scientist perspective, we know that it's not really clear that vice presidents really bring a lot of extra bang to the ticket. maybe in extraordinary circumstances when you have a figure such as sarah palin that really commands a lot of attention, that's one thing. but for the most part, the vice president is really not sort of a central asset or even, you know, a detriment to the campaign. >> although i have to say, when i heard that vp biden was meeting with elizabeth warren, i thought, now, if the two of them came out as a kind of co-ticket, you would see that potential enthusiasm, right? >> i think there would be many democrats that would be excited about that, and the question is, is that a ticket that would be

able to bring interest from the average voter as well? >> absolutely. thank you, again. so nice to have a chance to talk with you. up next, the person who might take down a joe biden presidential bid? olivia pope. ♪ (dorothy) toto, i've a feeling we're not in kansas anymore... (morpheus) after this, there is no turning back. (spock) history is replete with turning points. (kevin) wow, this is great. (commentator) where fantasy becomes reality! (penguin 1) where are we going? (penguin 2) the future, boys. the glorious future. (vo) at&t and directv are now one- bringing your television and wireless together-

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sometime next year, hbo will air a new film about the senate confirmation hearings of supreme court justice clarence thomas. central to the film titled "confirmation" are allegations by anita hill, now a respected law professor. the nation first learned of her as a former coworker of thomas who claimed she had been sexually harassed on her job. carrie washington, best known as olivia pope, will star as anita

hill. yes! and we already have a picture of her in the role. also depicted in the film will be joe biden who at the time was chair of the senate judiciary committee, and therefore, the leader of the hearings. critics of senator biden said he went too easy on thomas and allowed other senators to browbeat anita hill in trying to discredit her claims. he was also criticized for not reading hill's allegations until they were leaked to the press. biden responded that hill herself wanted to keep the allegations confidential. >> some have asked, how could you have, the united states senate voted on thomas' presentation and left hill's charges in the dark? to this i answer, how could you have expected us to form professor hill against her will into the blinding light which you see here today? >> oh, yes. this is one of the things that will undoubtedly come up in part thanks to a new movie should

vice president biden declare his candidacy for the top job. joining me now, white house kornts and bureau chief for american networks and author of "presidency in black and white," an up-close view on presidents in america. also contributor and "washington post" columnist. maria teresa kumar, president of vote latino. bush-cheney senior adviser and vp of communications for the bipartisan policy center. thanks for being here. i love being in d.c., getting my d.c. folks. i already live in too many places. listen, what kind of candidate would joe biden be if he decided to run? >> he would be a candidate right now who is human. he's still dealing with issues of his son's death, someone he was very close to. if he were to run, okay? but he also behind him has some strong wind.

he's been in politics in washington for 40 years. he's been a part of so much to include the movie that's getting ready to come out. people are going to see the fact that this man was involved in history. you have to remember, for those who will criticize him, 1991 was a different time. it was scandalous to even talk about the pepsi man. that was very scandalous. but at that time he held himself and he held that chamber with respect as much as he should with all the kind of details that came out. but i think he's someone who people like, they like him as being a real person, but i think a lot of the weight of what's happening in his life is going to plague the campaign. >> i was going to say, my favorite line of the day on biden is matt dowd to maureen dowd in his column this morning, trump is the only one who can make biden look disciplined. that fact about biden at the moment is an asset rather than a liability. i think he's got two things

going for him. one, everybody talks about his gas. he's almost immunized like he's taken a serum. people are like, that's joe biden, so there is kind of an acceptance to it, and there is said to be a longing for authenticity. we'll see if that longing lasts all the way to next year. lord knows he's authentic. i think we've seen more on the down side that he's run two times and he didn't make it. he's a warm, likeable person. the party likes him. but i also think if he gets in, the whole idea of, wait a minute, hillary clinton had the chance to be the first woman nominee last time, now all of a sudden, she really has a chance now and people are going to jump in the way. i think that's more complicated than what people are talking about now. >> i think what biden is doing is having these conversations with elizabeth warren, he's trying to get the media to talk to him, but i think it's because democrats realize if there is a falter in hillary clinton's campaign, they don't have a plan

b. >> if you look at iowa, she is in iowa deeply vulnerable. >> the difference between biden jumping in today with someone who has a political machine that has bakesically been building ts machine for the last eight years, he doesn't have that infrastructure. i think he says, let me actually see what happens with hillary clinton, and if she falters big enough where the donors start withholding their money, then all of a sudden he can come in. >> but he's the alternative, though. >> he's not a real alternative. this is the challenge with sanders is he has a very progressive white base, but he's having a very difficult time with the african-american population. >> that is exactly where i see the potential lame for biden. when you look at the numbers in the new poll around non-white voters -- and i was talking about this to john earlier, right? hillary clinton has 61% right now, and that's to be expected,

but look, joe biden is more than double that of bernie sanders. >> what's interesting about this, and i think maureen makes a good point. joe biden connects with white middle class, at least he did. that very much translates to 2016, so the question becomes whether or not hillary clinton has a glass draw. she does, because her numbers are so soft. we see that so well with the huge numbers bernie sanders is getting in the poll. the vast majority of people are saying, you know what, i respect secretary clinton, i think she's a very smart person, but there's something about the trust factor here that does not translate. with joe biden, that's completely different. >> i hear you, maria, if some scandal breaks out, but that actually strikes me as less of a concern, the e-mails, than the drip-drip piece by piece destruction sense of her as an honest person that can happen

just as a result of the scandal existing out there even if it doesn't become the one thing that takes her down. >> i think there are two poll to see look at, one, new hampshire and the other, the country. in new hampshire bernie sanders is doing incredibly well. these are mostly white states with lots of progressives in the primary who loves what bernie has to say. in the national polls, he's been creeping up but he still doesn't really challenge hillary clinton. her numbers among democrats, despite a miserable three months, are still pretty strong nationally. the question is, does biden help or hurt her? obviously she thinks -- anybody would think you get a stronger opponent in there, you wouldn't like it. i kind of think it would help her in two ways. one is why is there all this focus on e-mail? partly there isn't a real contest. biden is strong if he were to be the nominee, but the press can

have a contest. secondly, i think so much of the country's attention is now on the republicans because of trump, democrats need somehow to draw eyeballs to their side of the story. >> i want to bring something back to what we were just saying about the black and the latino vote. you're not hearing the vote going to any candidate right now because the black lives matter issue on the democratic side, bernie sand erers, of course, o'malley, that's not even a consideration with the crimes issue in baltimore. on the republican side, blacks and latinos are not thinking about trying to vote for donald trump who is talking about every community, and then some of the other candidates. >> the republicans also don't need african-american and latino voters to vote for them, they just need them to stay home. they just need them because obama is not on the ballot.

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a man in harris county, texas has been arrested in the shooting of a sheriff's deputy, at a suburban houston gas station friday night. shannon miles shot deputy darren goforth as he was walking to his car. >> any time there is a cold-blooded assassination of police officers, this rhetoric has gotten out of control. we've heard black looifives mat all lives matter, well, cops'

lives matter, too. why don't we just drop the rhetoric and say all lives matter. >> he has chosen to politicize this tie moovrvement that seeks end violence. for more we go to jamie live on the ground in houston. jamie, what do we know at this point in the arrest? >> reporter: good morning, melissa. shannon miles, the suspect here, is behind bars today. police have identified him. he's 30 years old. he was charged yesterday, and he's facing capital murder charges, police say. in the meantime, there's been an outpouring of grief here. hundreds of people at the gas station last night, and as you can see behind me, already a handful of members of the public and sheriff's deputies here. the deputies, melissa, are posted officially here as an honor guard . in keeping with department practice, there are also deputies with the fallen depu

deputy's family, and also with his body until funeral services are held. as you mentioned, no apparent moefsh in t moef motive in the attack, according to police. the sheriff drew attention to the black lives matter movement. he drew in part a rhetoric having to do with police. he blamed that rhetoric for creating an atmosphere that he said puts law enforcement at risk. but again, no apparent motive yet, the sheriff says. the suspect has a criminal record. he has been arrested in the past on trespassing charges and on charges of disorderly conduct with a gun. we hope to learn more about him later today and there will be a vigil held tonight at a local church, melissa. >> thank you to nbc's jamie novorod in houston, texas. up next, jeb bush is struggling, the gop is crumbling and the whole thing is entirely

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it has been a long week for gop presidential hopeful jeb bush. he is waking up this morning to a new iowa poll showing him mired toward the back of the pack. a national quinnipiac poll released thursday showed only 7% would vote him, a record low since 2013. and yesterday three of his consultants abruptly called it quit. the former governor is facing backlash for his recent use of the term "anchor babies." the pejorative phrase used to describe unauthorized immigrants. on monday he attempted to dig himself out of that hole. >> what i was talking about was the specific case of fraud being committed where there is organized efforts, and frankly, it's more related to asian people coming into our country, having children in unorganized efforts, taking advantage of a

noble concept with its birthright citizenship. >> the suggestion that asians were to blame for the exploitation of u.s. birthright laws has apparently brought affront to the asian tourism, particularly women. joining me in my panel now is christine chen, executive director of the nonpartisan asian organization of the machine american vote. nice to have you christi, chris. >> good morning. >> have you heard in asian communities how that comment by mr. bush is being received? >> well, the comment from jeb bush, as well as other candidates, are being seen as tactics that are demeaning and divisive by focusing on such a minute issue. what we're looking for is hearing about policy changes and consensus building, about passing comprehensive

immigration reform and really addressing the issue of the millions that are actually on the backlog. also historically what we found is that rhetoric like this only promotes blaming of immigrants when they're trying to make a case of the economic downturn or uneasiness. and with that rhetoric, we also find there will be an increase of hate crimes and also scapegoating. what we're also finding is by them promoting this rhetoric, they are really providing a stereo type that asian americans are also this perpetual foreigner. >> all right, so this is interest to me. it's part of what i really want to dig into with you, because it does feel to me like for jeb bush, it actually might be easier or more politically palatabp palatable to do this in asian communities because they are seen as less relevant in the content of the republican

primary, but also because jeb bush is hoping to make himself in part the candidate who is most palatable to latino voters moving forward. i guess i'm just wondering about that pitting of asian voters to latino voters on the question of immigration. >> latinos and asians are actually on the same side when it comes to comprehensive immigration reform. also in terms of jeb bush, this is actually a turn in his thinking. because back in 2013, he was the one that actually noted that asians are -- asian voters are actually the canary in the coal mine for the republican voter. 73% of the asian vote went to obama and that would actually be seen as a problem for the republican party. >> stick with us, christine. it just felt to me like, wait a minute, did he just kind of make that term -- >> it wouldn't have fed the latino vote but it would feed

the one that put me over the top. i have to say this anchor baby term folks are talking about, it's less about immigration and it's more about the changing demographics of our country. what is another word for an anchor baby? an american. let's be clear. that's what our constitution says. >> we know that, in fact, u.s.-born children are actually not anchors to their parents. it's been one of the critiques of the obama administration is the deportation of undocumented parents that split up families. >> to that point you have roughly over 3,000 american kids in foster care because their parents have been deported and they cannot cross -- they can't cross country lines because they're u.s. citizens and their parents are not. so that's a nonsense argument, but it goes more to the heart of the changing demographics and trying to basically make recently arrived parents of children and those american children other. we all know what happens in other. >> the politics of what jeb bush did is incomprehensible.

i thought he would be a better candidate than he's been so far. we talk a lot about how barack obama beat mitt romney by almost 3-1 among latinos. he also beat mitt romney by 3-1 among asian americans. asian americans once voted for republican candidates. the republicans actually did pretty well among them in the mid-terms. they cannot lose asian americans in a margin like this. >> christine, let me come to you on that, because certainly part of what we saw around a strategic asian american vote was in 2008 in virginia, and it was in part about candidate obama at that time, but it was also about the slur from virginia governor allen sort of earlier that had helped activate that community. i'm wondering if this actually ends up sort of pushing back and actually activating asian american voters and they're like, wait a minute, this is not acceptable. >> right. what we're hearing from the grassroots community is there is actually more interest in organizing voter registrations

and get out the vote activities even for the 2015 local elections. and when you look at the virginia population, especially with the growth of our community, you know, in 2012, obama won his election with 115,000 votes. well, the asian american electorate in virginia is actually double that. when you start looking at virginia, nevada and florida, the electr the electorate, when you combine it with a latino electorate, actually makes a difference. >> we're going to come back on this issue and we're going to talk a little bit more about the republican party and how it talks about not just asian americans, but in this case about asia, when we come back. ♪ (dorothy) toto, i've a feeling we're not in kansas anymore...

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for him. this is an opportunity to speak bluntly to this authoritarian ruler, not to treat him to a state dinner. >> i just think when it comes to an official state visit, that's one of the highest prizes we can give to countries that we work with that are allies and partners. i think we need to not just look the other way, i think we need to stand up and do something about it. >> the chinese leader is coming over here next week. we'll give him a great dinner, we'll celebrate him. you don't do that to people that -- let's have lunch. you don't need these big state dinners. >> so, april, i mean, we were talking in the last block about this notion of asian american voters being harmed in part by the language we heard from jeb bush, but it's not just asian american voters, it's this idea of china as this great, dangerous villain out there that soviet russia once played in our defense. >> china is very important to the united states. we have a very interesting relationship, i will say. one, we owe china a lot of

money. we have borrowed so much money to fund the war because of china. they gave us money. not only that, but we have issues with them with human rights. one-child policy, we can go on, but right now china hold a lot of cards. what if the iran deal does not go through? they, along with china, along with russia could actually -- their sanctions could just fall through on iran. they're very important to us. then also when it comes to china, let's look at the currency issue. last year the imf said they were the greatest world economy, and look what's happening now. so we have to deal with china. i think this is a great thing for both sides to come together in bilateral meetings to talk about the issues that are on the table, and the community here in china is strong. it's a big economic community. if you look at the jobs numbers every month, they have the best unemployment rate out of anyone in this nation. >> but i think really what this is is obama has had an asian strategy. with the markets tumbling in china, all of a sudden what we have is an opportunity in the

united states to go back into asia and basically say, china is weak. you have to come back and negotiate with us. you have to make sure that we are part of the conversation. and yes, china has large investments in our economy. they don't want us to default on our debt, so it's actually an opportunity. let me be straight, too. the idea that we don't want to engage with people that remain not seeing eye to eye is absurd. ronald reagan would never say don't come to dinner. he would say sit down with me and let's have a conversation. >> this is the part of what i find interesting, robert. in a moment when one person is governing or one party is governing and the other party is on the outside, there is always this role you can play. i would do it so differently and i would be tougher. part of what i'm wondering is whether a nuanced analysis can emerge out of the republican primary field right now or if it's all just about yelling at the same volume. >> i think that's a brilliant question, melissa. the primary is going to be black

and white, figuratively speaking, but when you're governing it turns to shades of gray. remember, this is a republican primary and remember there are a lot of conservative voters out there saying to your point china, the scare. i see my job going to beijing and it's not coming back. i see the browning of america and they don't look like me, so therefore, this is a country i don't recognize anymore. the point donald trump is making and also these other people are making in the republican field, it resonates with the republican voter. i'm not saying it's right, but those are the retail politics. >> the opposition party is always anti-china and the party left out says we have to deal with it. but i think even on this subject where republicans might have gotten some traction, trump's campaign kind of got in the way. a colleague made this point, i hadn't seen it. when he went after jorge rawho

ramos and meghan kelly, he said, let's have lunch so we can debate the politics over lunch instead of dinner. >> the issue with donald trump, and i'm really surprised he just wants to have lunch instead of dinner. trump is a businessman. i would think he would think about the issues of trade. our trade with china is so important. >> but his discourse isn't i'm a businessman who understands global trade, his discourse is, i'm a guy who will just beat others. >> this is how he would govern if he was in china. when we come back, everyone is talking about women's bodies. that's next. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you.

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released by an anti-abortion group suggesting that planned parenthood affiliates illegally profited from selling tissue from aborted fetuses. despite reports that the videos were manipulated, they have helped to galvanize a movement to defund planned parenthood. so much so that last week massive demonstrations occurred outside 300 planned parenthood clinics around the country. ohio governor john kasich, a gop republican contender, has not taken a public position. but he does oppose abortion, and since entering office, the two-time governor has entered 16 anti-abortion measures. then jeb bush. another gop presidential contender had this to say. >> i don't think planned parenthood ought to get a penny, though, and that's the difference. they're not actually doing women's health issues, they are

involved in something way different than that. >> but the biggest headlines on women's health did not come from the right this week. they came from democratic front-runner hillary clinton. >> extreme views about women? we expect that from some of the terrorist groups. we expect that from people who don't want to live in the modern world. but it's a little hard to take coming from republicans who want to be the president of the united states. >> sorks , maria, was this too far -- it's a good, strong, clear position from candidate clinton, but it also mentions terrorists. >> one of the reasons terrorists are at the forefront is they have basically put women back in the stone age. she's trying to create that

parallel. hillary was also able to break through her e-mails, they weren't questioning her about that, they weren't questioning her about whether she's the wrong democratic candidate. she was able to say this between republicans and me. let's not forget we are the party for democratic women and the right to choose. she's trying to, again, energize her base because she's having problems with women. >> she might have needed that rhetoric. >> it was no longer about trump, it was no longer about jeb bush. >> i flip my argument. notice this is a democratic primary. she has potentially maybe two people who may get into the race, whether it would be elizabeth warren, there's some chatter about that, or vice president biden. this is about fundraising, this is about energizing the base. and lastly, what's interesting about this is i talked to some

hillary clinton folks and they're saying, look, what we have to do is we have to change the narrative here from the defense as opposed to the server on e.j.'s point and make it something hillary is going to stand for, that she's going to fight for. >> i so appreciate both of you go right to the important politics of it, and i did as well, but there is also part of me that thinks, why in the world is this part of the political football? there are some things i wish were off the table. i don't think we should talk about the bill of rights. i don't think we should talk about whether or not if i get to be president, then ufr tyou hav right to marry. i think there are some basic rights and to me this is a settled matter of the supreme court. people have a right to privacy, and that right to privacy extends to the right to terminate a pregnancy. >> but i think that's one of the key pieces of the republican party. the abortion piece is one of the huge pieces. every republican cycle we've had same-sex marriage, we've had the war, we've had so many different

things. this is part of it, but the fact that's not coming out is clearly, and is not articulated as i would think it should be, is the fact that planned parenthood only has 3% of their health of women's issues is dedicated to abortions. and that's the thing that i am not hearing in this discourse. you're hearing the terrorist thing, and i don't think women's health should be funded, but the issue is that's 3%. >> i agree with that, and i think it's an important point because if you look at that video, i found it disturbing. i don't see how anybody can not find it disturbing, even if you understand that this is a doctor talking about medical stuff. but more of planned parenthood's money goes into family planning which actually reduces the number of abortions, but the fact is abortion isn't a settled issue in our country. and, in fact, it's probably less settled than gay marriage is, because what you've seen is a lot of steady movement in favor of gay marriage, and i think that issue is going to go away. the numbers on abortion really

haven't changed. you've got a majority that's pro-choice but kind of a minority majority. you've got ambivalence, because if you're ambivalent, you've got problems. >> you're talking about hillary clinton has to make her position clear, especially if there are other folks jumping in. but biden, part of his narrative is his strong catholicism. he's also been pro-choice in the past, but those could be different to hold if you're a presidential candidate. >> liberal politicians have been struggling with this for 25 or 30 years. pope francis makes it a little easier for them because pope francis, he's very pro-life, he's very anti-abortion, but he says this is not the only issue. he has gone back in a way to what used to be called the seamless garment or the consistent ethic of life where

the church also talks about poverty, war, the death penalty, immigration. it's going to be very interesting during his visit to see what does this do to the catholic discussion? >> the fact that the republican party right now is really image bashing because they're changing demographics. we're talking about the red scare in china and the soviet union. you understand who the electorate and it's an older electorate. >> it may be older but the democratic party's candidates are much older. so i would say what the republicans have are a lot of young people and a very big, wide, broad, can last for a long time bench. >> what you're going to find, though, is joe biden is going to be just like obama. he has to look at the religion and also being president of all

of america. >> thank you april ryan, also teresa kumar. still to come this morning, hud secretary julian castro joins me live. plus the surgeing candidacy of ben carson. it is happening, america. more at the top of the hour. at sears optical, we're committed to bringing them eyewear that works as hard as they do. right now, buy one pair and get another free. quality eyewear for doers. sears optical

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welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry and we are live in washington, d.c. this morning. yesterday in new orleans, a series of commemorative events celebrated 10 years since hurricane katrina broke, bringing deluge to the city. but we look at what happened immediately following katrina. this was the dramatic scene, the day the city council gathered to vote on the housing developments in the wake of hurricane katrina. chaos erupted as police officers

used pepper spray and tasers against protesters who showed up to oppose the plan as a land grab that would only exacerbate the vulnerabilities of new orleans' most impoverished residents. it fell on deaf ears, and eight years after the vote to oppose the demolition, the brick buildings that made up four housing projects are gone, as is most of the city's public housi housing. what has taken their place is a mixed income facilities. today housing has still fallen short of the scale that was lost in the demolition. and according to the times picayune, the goal of centralized housing in the city houses nearly 9%. the remaining 91% are holding

vouchers which would allow them to choose neighborhoods with less crime, better schools and improved health care and jobs. according to a report, a large percentage of those families were pushed out of places that had been their homes for generations only to be put in the outskirts of the city. joining me now is secretary julian castro in the u.s. department of housing and you are ban development. good to have you here. >> good to be here. >> you were in new orleans in part to mark the 10th anniversary. eight years since the vote to bring down the public housing. do you think that was the right decision? >> i believe that the decision was made with the right intention, and ultimately, whether or not that was the right decision is going to depend on whether we get it right now and in the years to come, right? because this idea that we ought to get folks into, at their choice, areas of higher

opportunity makes a lot of sense. just a couple months ago, there was very powerful research from a group out of harvard that said when you get families into higher opportunity areas, that has great outcomes in terms of educational achievement, in terms of income. at the same time, you can't forget about the distressed areas and investing in the older urban core neighborhoods. so i believe that generally, getting this mix right of using housing choice vouchers plus reinvesting in those older, traditional public housing, that getting that balance right is sometimes challenging, but it makes sense. so i would say that it's on the right track as long as we stay true to that balance. >> so that balance strikes me as important when i often hear people talking about getting families into areas of greater access and community. it makes sense if you think of

the legalitarian or just outcome is family by family. we want to make every community a community that has access, that has opportunity, and it does feel like housing is such a big part of that. how might hud policies actually might make a difference not only in new orleans but in other cities across the country? >> that's a great question. one of the things i think will be a lasting legacy of the obama administration, and i saw this when i was mayor of san antonio, is for the first time it came in and said, look, in these distressed urban communities, it's not enough just to focus on improving the housing or just improving the education or transportation, you have to focus on all of these things. so the work that we're doing with the choice neighborhood initiative, the work we're doing with promised zones, for instance, the work that the department of education is doing with promised neighborhoods is all about making sure that we invest in those older urban core neighborhoods, that we invest in the people there, and that ultimately we lift up the level

of economic opportunity and quality of life. so it's that place-based work that i believe is the strongest answer to the question of, well, what do we do to not forget about folks who also want to live there where they've lived forever, you know? i had the chance when i was in new orleans to meet families who have lived in these neighborhoods a long time. that's their home. that's where they want to be. if you gave them a choice to go somewhere else, they wouldn't because they want to live there, and there's a good reason for that. and we can't forget about them, and fortunately, the obama administration has taken this holistic approach to investing in those neighborhoods. >> let me ask you a political sort of pause of the day question. clearly mr. trump, the current republican front-runner, is making headlines with comments that many in the latino community see as outrageous, as painful, as inaccurate. can i ask you what your response to the kind of headline-making comments of mr. trump are? >> well, you know, i see it on

different levels, of course. i see it as somebody who has been in politics, and i understand why it's politically advantageo advantageous. he's not doing it by accident, he's doing it because it appeals to his republican base, and we've seen folks from pete wilson 20 years ago to jan brewer a few years ago to steve king in iowa that drum up resentment against immigrants in order to get elected. at the same time, personally i can only imagine what so many folks are feeling of different colors and backgrounds who have an immigrant history in our country. i know my grandmother came when she was six or seven years old in 1922 from mexico as a young orphan, and she worked her entire life as a maid, a cook and a babysitter. so she didn't reach, quote, unquote, the american dream, but because of that, my mother was able to graduate from high school, go to college, and my brother and i have become professionals and then public

servants. so what he's doing, the plan that he's put forward, is a dangerous one, it's offensive, and i don't think that it's practical for an america that is operating in a 21st century global economy. and my hope is that ultimately people will choose reasonableness and this sense of embracing our immigrant past instead of the divisiveness and the rhetoric that trump is offering. >> mr. secretary, that is an almost seamless answer that included a really lovely reminder about your own story. are you thinking about running for vice president? >> i am not. i'm thinking about doing a great job at hud. first of all, you can't run for vice president. >> have you been approached for potentially, sort of eyed by the folks who are currently running in the democratic party? >> i can tell you no one has approached me about that. i've seen that, but no, i've learned in life that if you want

to have a good future that you have to do a great job with what's in front of you, so i'm trying not to forget what's in front of me and do a fantastic job at hud. >> thank you so much, and thank you for being in new orleans and listening to folks. it is a city i love greatly and want to see good things there. >> it's a great city. >> thank you. when we come back, donald trump may be at the top of the gop pack, but be careful! you got to look at the candidate drafting right behind him, the unlikely contender is also an unlikely republican, and that's next. plaque psoriasis... ...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement

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with all eyes on donald trump and his surprise emergence at the head of the american presidential pack, you may have missed the guy behind him in the

number two spot, an unlikely front runner for the nomination. retired, dr. ben carson is the only candidate in the republican field pulling support numbers in the double digits. in a new des moines register poll of possible caucus goers has risen to 18% of support, within five percentage points of trump. he has outpaced experienced political veterans in his first f foray into politics. the comparatively mild-man innered carson has managed to attract his own sizeable share of supporters. just last week in arizona, 12,000 people turned out to a carson campaign rally at the convention center, more than trump and bernie sanders had attracted to the same venue in recent weeks.

carson addresses supporters with the same trump flare in his rhetoric. he has managed to seal all four of the country's borders, and in the past has called obamacare the worst thing to happen in america since slavery. in fact, it was carson's critique of the law during the speech of the prayer breakfast that marked his emergence onto the political stage. >> here's my solution. when a person is born, give him a birth certificate, an electronic medical record and a health savings account to which money can be contributed pre-tax from the time you're born to the time you die. when you die, you can pass it on to your family members so that when you're 85 years old and you got six diseases you're not trying to spend up everything. you're happy to pass it on and there's nobody talking about death panels. >> carson's attack on president obama's signature legislation while the president was just sitting a few feet away transformed him into a hero among tea party conservatives who saw him as someone unafraid to speak truth to power. for his new fans on the far

right, carson and his personal story of overcoming a childhood of poverty to become a world-renowned neurosurgeon was the very embodiment of reliance and responsibility. but as far as his reliance as a truth-teller, those had already elevated him to hero status in the african-american community. for a generation of people who came along in the '90s, his book "gifted hands" was practically required reading of pulling himself up by his bootstraps in his life story. he was a troubled man raised in the city of detroit by a single mother who goes on to become johns hopkins youngest chief neurosurgeon and becomes the first man successfully to separate congenital twins joined at the head. but despite this, he made the improbable feel possible. in the qg profile of carson

earlier this year, the writer said of carson's frequent visits to inner city schools as resident of johns hopkins, quote, any time anyone wanted to bring out any inspirational figure for young black boys, they turned to ben carson. but more than 20 years later, carson's re-emergence as a tea party hero has exposed some of the nuances in black tea party because some of those same people grew up with a figure of a success story and a message of personal responsibility. and the same message that has brought people to their feet in the polls for president obama may not have quite the same resonance when it comes wrapped in carson's rhetoric. joining me now, e.j.dion, will jerando, a former white house aide, and robert trainam, former

vice president of communications for the bipartisan policy center. will, i actually want to start with you, because i think there is a way in which carson's kind of bootstraps, individualist, politics of respectability is not that different from what we hear from president obama, for example, in "my brother's keeper." but then the veilance feels different when it's republican versus democrat. >> i think ben carson gets it 70% right. the ideas of personal responsibility, of working hard, of parents that care, of church, of family, of values, same things the president talks about and believes and i believe. i grew up similar to him, very poor in silver spring, maryland. my mother stayed on me hard. but the difference was i had a structure around me and i was fortunate to get scholarships to high school and college and law school, and what he fails to recognize is that from chattel

slavery to jim crow to the failed drug war that's led to mass incarceration, these are state sanction systems that make it harder to succeed, and so it's not all about personal responsibility. i've had good friends like probably dr. carson that didn't make it out because they didn't have scholarships, they didn't have mentors, and he fails to see the connection between the two. >> it does feel like that kind of conservatism, not the partisanship, but the conservatism is a thread throughout. not to me, because i don't believe in conservative polit s politics, but for many people it's a common thread. but it does feel different when it comes packaged republican. >> dr. ben carson is my brother, he's your uncle, he's your grandfather, he's one of us in the black community who is literally brilliant and pulled himself up from his bootstraps. let's acknowledge that, that he's a black man who has pulled himself up and is very, very smart. the difference is, guess what, he's a black republican.

when we start whispering it, the new car smell of the veneer kind of goes off a little bit. i'm very proud of him, this brother does a good job, therefore, he's a republican and not one of us. he's kind of like a bill cosby, he's kind of like a barack obama, but the fact of the matter is he's a republican and, therefore, he's discredited and that's a shame. it's a shame in the black community and it's a shame across the nation. >> i think it's a thing we often hear from black republicans is that sense of being somehow cast out of the race, of being racially inauthentic in some way. i would actually want to go all the way back to the first claim which is, let's just go ahead and say he's a brilliant guy who pulled himself up from his bootstraps. i will totally give you that he's brilliant, there's no question about that, but i don't know whether or not he pulled himself up by his bootstraps. my suggestion actually is that's probably not the full story. >> how can you say that when his

life story, single mom in detroit, his mom works three jobs, apparently. how can you not say that? >> because i think hard work is necessary but an insufficient condition for success. which is simply to say, must we work hard? absolutely. but does hard work necessarily lead to success? no. and so i always want to think about the other side. >> but that's his story. >> i think there are two issues here. one is, do we admire what ben carson made of his life? you bet we do. this is an amazing story. it's a great thing. and i think it's a deep debate in our country's history about is individual effort all by itself always enough? i mean, my feeling is not a single one of us is self-made because there is always somebody -- first of all, there is a mom or a dad. there is somebody in the neighborhood, there is a coach, a teacher, and often there is a scholarship, there is -- i got to go to college partly on scholarship and social security. >> i go even further because i think that even still leaves us within the realm of the kind of

civic action very neatly within a small government world. my bet is that there is also almost always a public school, a health plan. in fact, we have the people around us. there is almost always public policies, too. >> there are policies that get cited, and that's where i disagree with you. this is not just a black man who gets cast out because he's a republican. he's pushing policies not recognizing structural racism, not recognizing all the things that add to making lives harder for black people in america. it's not just about the republican run. yes, feel-good story. we all read about it. we hold him up like, oh, my god, ben carson, he's brilliant. he's brilliant when it comes to medical science, but i will tell you, when i've heard him talk about policy, i wouldn't say he's brilliant on everything. >> i have to show ben carson at the iowa state fair talking about the brains buzz ecause itt

makes me happy. >> with the kind of brains god endowed us with, we don't have to limit ourselves in any capacity whatsoever. the human brain is the most magnificent or begga organ syst universe. it remembers everything you've ever seen, everything you've ever heard, can process more than 2 million bits of information in one second. >> i love that! i want to go to the iowa state fair and hear someone talk about brain science! it's great, but it also doesn't quite make me think he's going to make the policy i need. up next i'm going to bring in one of the key people in st. louis who wants respect but is not doing it in a respectable way. we'll be right back. don't leave home without it! and someday, i may even use it on the moon. it's a marvelous thing! oh! haha! so you can replace plane tickets, traveler's cheques, a lost card. really? that worked?

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today, republican presidential candidate ben carson writes, the idea that disrupting and protesting bernie sanders speeches will change what is wrong in america is lun si. the black lives matter movement is focused on the wrong targets, to the detriment of blacks who would like to see real change and to the benefit of its powerful white fuliberal funder using the attacks on sanders for political purposes that mean nothing for the problems that face our community. this week also brought a response to one of its original demands. as the ferguson municipal court announce aid major overhaul in accordance with the new st. louis county law that will include the withdrawal of all warrants issued before december 31st of 2014. joining me now from st. louis is founder of hands up united and the hip-hop artist who just

released his latest album "war machine 3." tef, nice to have you here. does the announcement sound to you like a victory, this announcement about the municipal court changes? >> i mean, i think it's a noteworthy achievement, but i also feel as if it's irrelevant to the lives of the men and women that are struggling with the things that the system has impounded upon us. there is a lot of talk in st. louis right now about the rates raising and really defining what poverty means and what hardship means to people of color in this city, and i think any type of dialogue that we have personally, poor people have to be in the forefront of that discussion. >> can you respond a bit to these critiques that have come from kind of a black conservative world? are you saying the black lives matter is either just focused on the wrong things or using the wrong strategies or just simply disreputable? >> you know, we live in a world where people are telling us to be respectable to targets that

just aren't respectable. there's nothing respectable about white supremacy, there is nothing respectable about oppressi oppression, there is nothing respectable about sexism, mysogeny, rape. the tank is a war machine that came to destroy a village and genocide their people. this is the dilemma that we have. we have a non-respectable enemy that's asking us to essentially respect his humanity while they don't even acknowledge ours. >> tef, stick with me. one of the reasons i wanted you at the table is a piece you wrote for the root this week. you were kind of talking about, i believe in many of the same values that president obama and dr. ben carson believe in, but you also wrote about how resp t respectability won't save you from injustices or inequality in

this case. >> that's exactly right. i write a piece about how we'll need more voices in the debate. i'm a black man, i'm a father, but i was also respected. it was a misunderstanding, the charges were dropped, but people don't understand that we're at a critical point. we're not at an in flexion point, we are at a breaking point. to see that when you have one out of two african-americans that have been arrested by the time they're 23, 44% of latino men, 70% of the juveniles locked up today across the country are people of color, are children of color. to say that this is -- we're supposed to just be calm to these young people and that we're supposed to be a very calm and respectful, peaceful movement i think is crazy. we're seeing the tip of the iceberg of the success of this movement. i want to tell my daughter in 15 years i was at the forefront running for congress, pushing the democratic table, too, not just understanding it but

understanding we have to move. if it's respectable, bernie sanders, senator sanders does not raise a racial platform. so we can't be respectable. >> julian, talk to me a little about this. it does feel to me that movements like black lives matter can sometimes feel like it's contesting civil rights organizations or urban league or others. how do we get all those organizations to push an agenda? >> it's important to have a spectrum of voices, right, and the movement for black lives is clearly staking out a position that is pushing us into a discourse that we would not have otherwise had in this country. you know, for him to call it n lunacy, no, let's talk about the changes that are happening and the kind of conversations that are happening and we see a real systemic reform that's kind of a ripple effect of young people calling out racism in this country. >> tef, let me come back to you, because i can cite something actually happening in st. louis around policy.

we heard will hear cite bernie sanders coming out with a racial justice platform. certainly black lives matter is not declaring victory or doing a victory lap, but i wonder, are you starting to see some meaningful victories? >> i believe so. and i think that it's also important to note that in any frontier of a battle, you have different planks, you have different areas and people with different skill sets and different capabilities. one thing i was talking with one of my elders yesterday about jam jamala rogers, she brought up the fact that we need not shoot down different idealogies and different methods just because they don't look like a route that we may deem is capable of bringing about victory for us. i believe you need people on the front line with the gas mask and the bandanas and their shirts off and the young ladies with their fists up and the tank tops just like you need hillary clinton wearing the suits.

this is a vast assortment of people. i also want to note, you know, that when white supremacists like donald trump look at black people, when they look at people lake harriet taubman, to him harriet taubman is the same person as nicki minaj. donald trump doesn't have a conscience. people like him really don't care about our general perception of ourselves to them, and i think that within the ferguson movement, that's one thing that a lot of the protesters began to notice. in the early days people were in the streets and we thought that we could chant our way into making police officers respect us, we could chant our way into making politicians view us as valid members of society. i think now we realize that's not possible and no matter what you look like, you can have a suit and a tie on -- martin luther king is just as dead as tup tupac. i appreciate you joining us

here in washington. the rest mif panel is sticking around. the big business of buying structured settlements from those suffering from lead poisoning. choosing a wireless plan can be complicated. so verizon made one simple plan with four sizes that you can switch at any time. small... medium. large. and extra large. if you need less data, pick small.

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if you grew up in the '70s or '80s, you probably remember the public service announcement warning parents about the health risks associated with lead-based paint. paint containing lead was popular in the 19th and 20th century because it was durable and quick drying. it's also toxic, causing serious health problems. lead poisoning can affect the entire body, resulting in symptoms including headaches, irritability, confusion, memory loss,able pain, nausea and loss of appetite.

babies and small children want to put anything and everything into their mouths and lead paint chips are very sweet tasting. even lead paint that isn't peeling can shed harmful dust which can settle on toys and beds. children inhale it faster than adults, and because they're still growing, it can result in permanent learning disabilities, behavioral problems and stunted growth. many countries in europe band lead paint in the first decades of the 20th century, and the league of nations pushed for a worldwide ban in 1922. at the time, the united states was the world's largest producer of lead, so despite widespread knowledge of the dangers interior lead paint could bring, it wasn't officially banned in the u.s. until 1978. lead paint was banned going forward, but what about the millions of homes already covered in it? removing lead paint is extremely difficult, is a process and often results in dangerous exposure. those who can afford to hire

professionals to remove lead paint from their homes or who could afford to move did so. what about those who couldn't afford it? let's look at two cities. in chicago the rate of lead poisoning in children under six growing up in poor black communities is six times the city's average. in 1995, more than 80% of children tested in the city's upper class lincoln park neighborhood had elevated levels of lead, nearly the same rates as those in the low income austin neighborhood. by 2013, the percentage of children exposed in lincoln park had gone to zero. but in austin, children still had dangerous levels of lead exposure. in baltimore, the rate of children with lead poisoning is nearly three times that of the national average. as in chicago, the toxic rates of lead exposure are concentrated in low-income, predominantly black neighborhoods. many children suffering from permanent disabilities as a result of lead poisoning have filed lawsuits and received settlements worth hundreds of

thousands of dollars. but a new investigative report reveals why some of those people are getting only a fraction of what they were awarded and why other people are making millions off of their suffering. and that story is next. it took serena williams years to master the two handed backhand. but only one shot to master the chase mobile app. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank.

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the ottoman? thank you. fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. so get your credit swagger on. go to experian.com, become a member of experian credit tracker, and take charge of your score. next week important court hearings will begin in the freddie gray case to determine if the trial should be moved out of baltimore, if state's attorney mary mosby should be recused. freddie gray died while in custody. gray was awarded a structural settlement after his family filed a lawsuit in 2008 based on the lead paint exposure freddie and his siblings suffered in their rented home. two years before his death, he agreed to sell $146,000 worth of his settlement to a company called access funding. in exchange he received $18,000. in other words, over time he

would have received $146,000 in small amounts, but by agreeing to sell his right to that 146, he received 18,000 up front as a lump sum payment. according to the paperwork gray signed, it said gray wanted to pay off debt and improve his credit. an investigative report in the "washington post" this week details how companies like access funding approach recipients of structured settlements. the companies offer quick cash for significantly less than what would be the cumulative total. access funding, one of the many companies that buy structured settlements, says the industry helps people who have urgent needs. but critics say these companies profit off vulnerable individuals and communities. gray's stepfather told the "washington post," quote, they sucker you in. they didn't know they were giving up so much for so little. because the city is dotted with old homes full of lead, many baltimore residents have received lead paint settlements ask gray is hardly alone for selling his for pennies on the dollar. access funding has purchased

about 200 structured settlements since 2014. one didn't graduate from high school, suffers from severe learning disabilities and lives with his mother in a house he purchased from a structured settlement. in 2015, he indicated he wished to sell $663,000 worth of his settlement for just $50,000 in return. despite already owning a home, the paperwork for access funding, jones says, indicates he needs money because he doesn't want to pay rent anymore. we reached out to access funding to see if anyone would join us, and in response to our invitation, they provided this statement. quote, previous media coverage contained numerous factual inaccuracies and presented a materially misleading direction of the practices of our business and the industry. we are eager to work with skurmtz, policymakers and others to educate them as to the actual

practices and regulations already in place. we are also supportive of and have pro actively adopted various initiatives being discussed to update the current maryland structured settlement trafr laws to be on par with other more stringent poefrlz throughout the country. we have a reporter who has been digging into those numbers, terrence mccoy of the "washington post." did i get that right, terrence? >> yeah, you got it right. i think the most important thing to remember in these structured settlements, they're different than traditional settlements paid out in one lump sum. the reason these started the way they did is because these people are vulnerable recipients and they may not have much experience of wiring sums of money. so they eke out that money over time to help that person weather the stresses of ordinary life. these are usually the only assets these people have. na the meantime, disability is

expensive, poverty is expensive and it piles up. that really is what gave rise to this industry that comes in and pays out what sometimes can be dimz dimes on the dollar for these structured settlements. >> it reads to me almost like the predatory lending we've seen not only in mortgages that i think we're used to hearing about, but also in used cars, in pa the pay day loans. is it in that category? >> critics do say this is predatory lending because these are extremely complicated. they stretch across at least a dozen pages, and when you think about the people striking deals with them a lot of times, especially if they come from circumstances, say, in baltimore when they had lead poisoning, they have diminished capacity to be able to understand complexity like that. again, in that sort of situation, it gives rise to the situation you see, where these dollar amounts just don't even seem to equate. >> judith, i wonder if we could think of this issue as a civil

rights issue or an inequality issue in ways that we don't. >> i definitely think so. your analogy to predatory lending is spot on and we do need to be looking at this as a violation of civil rights. because i'm sure if we actually got some real data behind this that we would see african-americans and latinos probably hit more disproportionately by these kinds of practices. >> it makes sense given what you report here about the lead, right, that the lead in the homes is most likely to happen in communities where people have fewer housing choices and options. >> this story is steeped in the historical sweep of baltimore when you think of decades of segregated housing policies that really crammed a certain demographic in certain neighborhoods, and it started atrophy. in that atrophy you had situations like lead paint poisoning because those houses aren't being maintained properly. if you just follow the footsteps all the way back to the origin of the story, you can make it into a civil rights issue. >> first of all, i'm very biased here, but i do want to say let's

hear it for good, old-fashioned journalism. it took three months to put this story together. we need this kind of journalism, so let me just put that out there. this does link up to the conversation we had in the last segment about black lives matter, and there is clearly a linkage between class issues and race issues, and there are coalition opportunities there. when you go back to dr. king, you think about two aspects of his approach, aspect 1 was militancy and protest. and you have to put problems before people, you have to put them in people's faces. for myself, it wasn't at the front of my mind before that when my 22-year-old son goes out in the street, i don't worry that he's going to be shot by a cop. that's the one side of it. the other side of it is if you look at what he did, dr. king was very focused on the conversion of adversaries and on coalition building, and i think when you look at that movement,

you have the first half where you need the militancy to get the problem out there, but you need coalition building to solve it. and i think that that's -- >> it's okay for it to be different people doing that work. >> i think e.j. is exactly right. you need the militancy as the starter. it's the match that lights the flame. but you also need a new set of leaders that have lived experience, that can go in and talk to -- i think now you have republicans that don't understand a lot of these issues or deny them, and then you have many democrats that care, want to care, but don't understand the urgency. baltimore has been a democratic city for a long time, i know a lot of people there, and i think you need folks that have lived through it to be some of these leaders that can help bring these coalitions together and bring us real policy. one without the other doesn't work. >> i would add to that also, and this maybe goes back to the hands clap for journalism. you put issues in front of people to be able to tie those links. i appreciated we all meet freddie gray in this moment of

his arrest, but that the questions about what impacts freddie gray's life are these large structural questions that go much beyond it. >> the arc freddie gray traced from his early life and slum housing in baltimore all the way to his death, this is the stuff that's been repeated by hundreds of different people in those urban centers. when you think about being born into lead paint tenements and then you see the compounding damage of failures in the classroom, truancy and run-in with the law. >> the story becomes that much more complicated and rich. i want to say thank you to judith brown, edith jajuan and terrence. up next, the civil rights activist confirm to the nation's highest court on this day 48 years ago.

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on this day in 1967,

thorou thoroughgood marshall was affirmed to the highest court. marshall established himself as one of the legal giants of the 20th century. and a tireless warrior for racial equality. as a student he was denied admission to the university of maryland law school because of his race. marshall went on to attend howard university law school. graduating first in his class. shortly after graduation, he successfully sued the very maryland law school that rejected him, forcing an end to their segregation policies. for more than 20 years, marshall worked as a chief counsel of the naacp legal defense fund, where he helped formulate the strategy of using litigation as a tool for social reform. he traveled the country taking on major and minor cases involving questions of racial justice. >> maybe you can't override prejudice overnight, but the

emancipation proclamation was issued in 1863, 90-odd years ago. i believe in gradualism. i also believe that 90-odd years is pretty gradual. >> he challenged texas' with whites-only primary elections and housing covenants. his most significant legal victory came in 1954, as the lead attorney in brown versus the board of education, the landmark supreme court case that struck down segregation in public schools. marshall argued 32 cases before the supreme court, earning an impressive record that president lyndon johnson noted when he assigned marshall to the high court. >> he has argued 32 cases before the supreme court. he has won 29 of them. and that's a batting average of

900. >> for the next 24 hours, justice marshall was a fierce advocate on social justice issues, standing up for affirmative action and reproductive rights and against the death penalty. he was known for making his case in blunt, straightforward language in and out of court. [ applause ] >> you ought to go around the country and show yourself as an inspiration. for what? these negro kids are not fools. they know to tell them that there's a possibility that some day you'll have a chance to be the only negro on the supreme court, that those odds aren't too good. >> i love him. marshall retired from the court in 1991. and though the current supreme court with its conservative majority has undercut much of what marshall fought for by

gutting the heart of the voting rights act and laying the groundwork for further rollback for affirmative action, it is also more diverse than ever. a court that includes three women, including the first latina on the court. a transformation that began with the appointment of thoroughgood marshall to the supreme court on this day in 1967. i'm going to see you next sca saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. hi, alex. >> we do love those guys in d.c. thank you so much, melissa. the death at a baseball stadium. what went wrong and was foul play involved. chris christie fighting off criticism over his plan to track with fedex. a wild week. what you can do to protect your investments.

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new polls and 'rks. the bernie sanders surge gets fresh momentum in iowa. the only woman in the gop field. will she be part of the main event at the next republican debate or part of the undercard? i'll talk to her deputy campaign manager. police now have a suspect in that execution-style killing of the officer in houston. one big piece of the puzzle remains a mystery at this hour. u.s. obama will go where no other u.s. president has ever gone. why is there controversy surrounding this trip. hey there, everyone. high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." we begin with new polls for the race for the white house. bernie sanders