for the first time in weeks donald trump is not alone in the republican poll. trump and ben carson are tied i. carly fiorina is in third place with 10%. ted cruz has 9% and jeb bush only has 5%. he's polling slightly above the margin of error. so, in fact, things are looking so bleak for jeb bush, he's changing the logo to going from this, jeb 2016 to this. i like it better, actually. i think it's more understated. >> all right. >> the fight has begun. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> there's a lot going on. >> not the fight here. in politics. >> jeb went after trump yesterday. there are cross tab onz the ppp poll really ugly. donald trump supporters and what they believe, what they don't believe, really ugly stuff that i know donald is going to have

to con front. >> we have mike barnical with us, harold ford jr. and catty kay in washington. dick cheney and secretary of state john kerry and presidential conditioned date lindsey graham will be joining us this morning. >> can i say quickly, you and i both lawyers. one of us is not a good lawyer, me. but we both went to law school. i want to explain this to my republican brothers and sisters. this kentucky clerk is refusing -- >> we have that in news. >> i know. but refusing to perform marriages. right? defi defying the supreme court. they say the 14th amendment doesn't say what it says. now you have republicans defying the united states supreme court. i mean it's really ugly out there. and this party has got to be very careful in august and september of 2015 how they define themselves for 2016. we're a nation of laws. whether we like the laws or not,

i follow the laws. >> i watched one of the numbers you had up on one of the earlier shows and i'm sure you'll find it interesting, catholic voters, 44-39 view gay marriages, 44 against, 39 say it's okay. even catholic church finds itself coming around this in a big way. for an elected official to selectively choose which laws he or she is going to enforce is not a political partisan issue, it says a lot about where politics is and even where the sanity and intelligence of our politics is. >> even if it's 90-10, you follow the supreme court. you follow the united states constitution. it's crazy. we'll have more. >> a lot of other news to get to including. that first, we start with politics. we'll get it all in. the jeb bush versus donald trump social media war got off to an early start yesterday. did you see this? >> jeb's leaning in, baby. >> it began with this bush salvo

on youtube. >> i lived in manhattan all my life. my views are different than if i lived in iowa. partial birth abortion? >> i'm more pro-choice. i'm pro-choice in every respect and as far as it goes. >> as far as single payer, it works if can d.a. it works incredibly well in scotland. >> the fact is that 25% for high income people, it should be raised substantially. >> who would you like representing the united states in a deal with iran with this regime? >> i think hillary would do a good job. >> do you identify more as a democrat or republican? >> you'd be shocked if i said in many cases i identify more as a democrat. >> then why are you republican? >> i have no idea. >> trump waist wasted no time - >> in all fairness, a lot of times i say i have no idea either. >> yes. that's true. that's true. a little different here. trump wasted no time hitting back on twitter.

yet another weak hit by a candidate with a failing campaign. will jeb sink as low in the polls as others that have gone after me? and jeb is spending millions of dollars on hit ads funded by lobbyists and special interests. bad system. and while the full bush ad was 91 seconds, trump hit back with another 15 second instagram post. >> we recognize the commitment of someone who devoted her life to public service. i want to say thank you to both secretary clinton and to president clinton. >> what did that make hillary clinton to the bush family? >> my sister-in-law. >> the attacks continued offline. >> oh, my god. >> and in spanish. when bush spoke to reporters, this is pretty good, at a school in miami. take a look. [ speaking spanish ]

>> and donald trump met with the ceo of the hispanic chamber of commerce. he'll attend a public question and answer session with them on october 8th. i think that's going to be fascinating. >> the "washington post" reported on how this was a high risk strategy for jeb bush. all the supporters are saying you have to go after trump. but, of course, the risk is you only strengthen trump. what's your take? >> i don't see it adds a risk at all. he should have done it from the beginning. nobody wants to be lectured in a policy seminar. they want to see someone tough and conservative. he's able to say he's more conservative has trump and trying to prove the tough guy. he doesn't do tough guy that

well. donald trump does it terrifically well. you're reading of the tweets is fantastic. points of emphasis just where you puts the points of emphasis. he's better at it. i think if you believe like most people in washington believe that eventually trump burns out, jeb's doing exactly what he should be doing if he wants to be the person that replaces him. >> and kathleen parker also has an op-ed saying it is time to take the gloves off, republicans and go after donald trump. that hasn't worked in the past. it hasn't worked for the texas governor. it hasn't worked for lindsey graham. it hasn't work ford a lot of candidates. we'll see fit works for jeb. >> a new poll to this point finds that donald trump is benefitting from support of those who think that president obama is a secret muslim born in another country. and that immigrant children should be deported. public policy polling find that two-thirds of trump supporters believe the president of the united states is a muslim. only 12% will say he's a

christian. that is 12 points higher than the mainstream of the republican party. another 61% think he was not born in the u.s. 21% admit he was, again, substantially higher than the rest of the party. and 63% would amend the constitution to remove birthright citizenship. 20% would keep it intact. again, more conservative than the rest of the party. >> there is a new piece out on "politico" called donald trump's coalition of disdain. 61% of trump supporters say he's a muslim. 62% say he wasn't born in america. and then you have another high number that want to actually change the 14th amendment. do away with the 14th amendment. >> you're a republican, how do you deal with that? let's call dumb dumb. if you believe he wasn't born in the united states, if you really believe he's secretly a muslim

whether he says he's a christian, how do you as a republican play with that hand? that's why donald trump is doing terrifically well. there is a segment of the republican party that is hostile. >> the problem is it's not just donald trump. scott walker asked back in january or february, do you think barack obama is a christian? couldn't answer the question. >> it was litigated and resol informed 2008 and 2012. it just seems odd. six, eight, 12 weekends ago you talked about the openings that republicans may have because of a weak economy on certain iran foreign policy. the iranian deal, front page of all the newspapers around china. donald trump is an expert on jobs and markets. he doesn't talk about these things. for us to talk about whether he's a muslim or born in the u.s., you have to wonder if the republicans are secretly doing not only just trump but all of them are trying to elect mrs. clinton and making it so much easier for democrats to win

nationally. >> it seems to me that reporters are are going to have to ask, cnn and the debate is going to have to ask donald trump at least two questions. do you believe barack obama is a muslim? do you believe barack obama was born in the united states of america? if two third of supporters believe he's a muslim despite the fact he says he's a christian, two-thirds believe he was born outside of this country despite the fact all the evidence states otherwise, i think that -- i mean he's got to speak the truth to his followers. >> yeah. those are gotcha questions are fair enough. he is single-handedly the biggest figure and always has been in the birther movement. he is the one that demands that birth certificate be shown. i think not asking those questions would be negligent when you see that his supporters are echoing his points of view. so they've got to ask him that. i think they also have to do a little bit more of what jeb bush has done. take donald trump's past and present it to him. that is the most effective form

of counter attack against donald trump. this is what you said you believed on aabortion. this is what you said you believed in the past when it comes to whether you're a democrat or a republican. this is what you've said you believed on a national health care system. those are the kinds of things i think you're going to have to see more of both from the candidates and during the debate process as well. the guy is so far ahead at the moment that if they don't start attacking him at some other point, then he'll get too far ahead. they should have started earlier in the summer. it's a little late now. they have no choice. >> speaking of the debates, joe in the commercial break yesterday you predicted this. cnn changed the rules. in the next debate carly fiorina gets a spot on stage. >> you know, before the ohio debate, first debate, i said they're going to figure out a way to get john kasich in. you watch. sure enough, the rules changed. >> speaking of that -- >> i said, you're right. do you think carly will get in? yeah, they're going to rig it in

a way to make sure carly gets in. >> john kasich made a case for a minimum wage increase. we'll get to that. we have to get to hillary clinton. "the washington post" reports this morning that hillary clinton wrote and sent at least six e-mail that's contained classified information while using her private server. the revelations found in monday's release suggest that clinton's role in distributing sensitive material went beyond receiving notes by others on the e-mail system kept in her home. government officials deemed the information confidential after she left office but personally writing the messages contradicts what she claimed in march when the private server was first revealed. >> i did not e-mail any classified material to anyone on my e-mail. there is no classified material. so i certainly well aware of the classification requirements. and did not send classified

material. >> that's just ridiculous. first of all, i'm glad she said at the time, jim, she was aware of classified requirements. because this bs about it was not marked when that is -- that's no standard whatsoever. i'm glad she admitted right. there the one thing she did tell the truth is she's aware of what classified requirements are. and by the way, she's secretary of state. this is her only server. you have to be really, really stupid -- again, it's the blender test. i do trust you with a blender in my home to not stick your hand in this and, like, get it all beat up? if you believe that hillary clinton only account did not receive and send classified material in high volumes, then you should not be allowed within fiveblen blender in a kitchen. >> if you're a republican, you think hillary clinton is going to win and you want her to win f you're a republican, you have to be kicking yourself. 70% of people don't think she's

honest. 70% people don't think she's honest. she loses to -- or ties to almost every republican in a matchup in a swing state. she's clearly not a better politician on the stump than she was last time around. she didn't learn that nch that period where she wasn't in campaign politics. so she seems beatable. then you have republicans wondering whether or not the president's a muslim or not. i don't get it. unbelievable. >> go ahead. quick. >> in fairness, they talked about confidential and classified. there is a difference between confidential and classified. i don't believe any american, even though people associate those words with her, she did anything unpatriotic. did she handle this columns lum? yes. >> do you think -- is that the standard? is david petraeus a patriot? i'm asking you. is david petraeus -- you brought up the patriotic standard. is david petraeus is a patriot? >> he s he had a very sorry exercise of judgement providing

his biographer. >> who passed the classified material along, david petraeus or hillary clin? i'd be glad to make that mitt romney $10,000 bet. >> let me ask you a question. do you think the e-mails are more important or do you think her responses to? >> her responses. if she came out first day and said, you know what? i screwed up. if she said i screwed up. i really am so sorry. i know you all are tired of us doing this stuff and, you know what? i'm paranoid. after 25, 30 years of republicans trying to destroy me at every turn when i try to do good things for this country, i was paranoid and, you know what? i made a terrible mistake. i'm so sorry. i'm turning all the e-mails over and the server over to the proper authorities. and they can do what they will.

>> and she can do that better than you. >> i agree with joe. >> the disagreement is about what was classified appeared to be stark. the e-mails she sent to george mitchell and others are entirely redacted and blacked out. it's not a black and white issue. it kind of is right now. >> that's the state department who continues to -- read the last part. >> it's difficult to judge whether it was classified at the time which is why she shouldn't have her own server, okay? come on. meanwhile, ron fournier tweeted, a true fend and aide would tell hillary clinton she's destroying her kriblt, jucredibility. just tell the truth. >> she doesn't have a person around her who can tell her no. >> you were just saying that, joe, about how she should have

responded. exactly goats wets to why donalp is so popular. people are fed up of politicians because they're anxious about raising money bshgts longevity of the campaign about, the prevalence of social media. they are so cautious about what they say at every turn that it sounds like legal ease. then comes donald trump who doesn't give a damn what he says, says everything and people are drawn to that. that's exactly that paradox. >> all right. we have a lot of biden news. a new poll suggesting he would be the top choice among democratic primary voters if hillary clinton falters. so we'll get to that later. a couple other things he's doing as well, appearances and television shows. president obama's on the brink of securing enough votes to uphold the controversial nuclear deal with iran. democratic senators bob casey, chris coons said they would support. they're one shy enough to uphold a veto if they pass a resolution to kill the deal.

secretary of state john kerry will join us live from the state department at 7:30 a.m. this morning. on the heels of that, sheriff's deputy being killed in texas, another police officer was shot to death yesterday. a massive manhunt is underway for three men suspected of killing 30 year veteran joe gliniewicz. he was pursuing three suspects on foot described as two white men, one black man just before he was shot and stripped of his gun and pepper sprayed. joining us live outside police headquarters in fox lake, illinois,on yang with t o illinois, john yang. >> you can see outside the police department a make shift memorial sprung up. people in this community suppressing their -- expressing a tribute to this officer, charles j.gliniewicz.

his fellow officers are expressing tribute by pressing this search as hard as they can. they're pledging to go at this 24/7 until they find these three guys suspected of shooting him. there are 48 canine units in this search, six air support units, federal, state, local officials, state police, neighboring local police. we've seen officials from the atf, the u.s. marshal service, the secret service, the fbi, all pushing this search. back to you. >> all right. john yang, thank you. >> mike, it seems to be open season on police officers. how you would like to be the wife, the husband, the father, the mother of an officer that goes out every night these days? they have targets on their back. >> it's one of the few jobs in this country where you put on the shield every morning and you go out the door to work and there is always a possibility that you might not come home. it's one of the few jobs that is ever present. >> it seems that possibility only increasing. you look at the vile comments

that were made after this police officer was shot dead on twitter yesterday. it's unbelievable that there is a segment of this population that is actually cheering for the deaths of police officers. >> and they're all anonymous, obviously but they're shocking. >> let's get to wall street. a new month did not mean a fresh start for the markets. more concerns out of china sent the dow plunging 470 points. that puts it back in correction territory and down more than 10% since its may high. the day marked the worst september start in 13 years and the worst start for any month since 2008. the state of the global markets now has the president of boston's federal reserve bank cautioning about raising interest rates. >> harold this is actually the opposite of 2008. in 2008 you had a bubble. the fundamentals were not solid. here the markets gone down

because what is happening in china. india grew at 7.5% over the past few months. the united states government, we're getting good numbers coming in here. it seems to me people don't need to be running for the gates. our economy is solid. >> it shows our how connected we are globally. the concerns here but in europe about china's appetite for importing things that we sell and that the rest of the world sells. this very to figure out how they stabilize there. the concern i have is you make the point, the fundamentals are strong here but one of the first times it's completely out of our control what happened. we can't control what happens in china. it mablkes the state visit by t president of china impressive. >> i said it a million times over the past five years, everybody is talking about how china is going to stop us economically. we heard the same thing about japan in '88 and '89. japan has had a loss decade and a half. people that are talking about how china is going to overtake

us need to understand their government can't even figure out how to get out of this mess and they're trying to rig the market. even when they rig the markets and devalue the currency, they still have a long, long way to go. br they're in our league. >> they have a people management problem over there and how they reconcile and manage that will determine in big ways how our economy and our market is going to react. >> john huntsman said if they don't grow at 9%, 10%, the communist leadership knows they're in big trouble. >> making it to mcdonald's in time for breakfast -- >> this is a great story. >> will soon be a problem of the past. that's because the fast food chain will start serving the most important meal of the day all day starting october 6th. the move follows years of complaints that customers had to order their egg mcmuffins before the 10:30 a.m. cutoff. >> which is sick.

>> especially on saturdays. >> it's the latest initiative from new ceo steve easterbrook aimed at trying to end the three year sales slump. and also trying to keep up with the times in terms of healthy options and i think now they're trying to get out of what is sort of an abyss of little problems that are bringing them down. >> they're trying to help america is what they're doing. >> they love america and harold ford, it reminds me of the bible verse, ask and you shall receive. seek and ye shall find. and we have found all day breakfast at mcdonald's. god is good. >> it's one of the reasons -- >> god is good, harold? >> always. i can't wait to take advantage of -- i take advantage of it anyway. i just convince them to make them anyway after 10:30. >> now you do have to shrimp them a $100. >> god bless the egg mcmuffin and god bless america. >> i think you should treat our

entire team to breakfast. >> i'm coming back. >> still ahead, a huge edition of "morning joe" is ahead with former vice president dick cheney, john kerry, republican senator and 2016 candidate landcy graham. up next, more on the county clerk in kentucky as she defies the supreme court and refuses to issue same-sex marriage licenses. the video coming up. plus, pope frances tackles a very heated issue in his latest attempt to have a more inclusive church. and yahoo ceo, remember her, she's pregnant again with twins. why her plans for maternity leave is generating a major debate. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> we'll take hot cakes and sausage. >> sorry, sir. we stopped serving breakfast. >> what you are talking about? we're four seconds late. >> no we stop serving breakfast at 10:30. no. no. don't cry. i wasn't cursing at you. i was cursing at the lady. >> nice parenting.

>> thanks are you my therapist? take a walk. you want a happy meal. can we get a happy meal? will somebody get the kid a happy meal?

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26 past the hour. time too take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the "new york times." pope frances announced that all catholic priests will be allowed to absolve women for the "sin of abortion if they seek forgiveness during the upcoming holy year of mercy." he wrote, "i'm well aware of the pressure that led women to this decision. i know that it is a moral ordeal. i met so many women who bear in their heart the scar of this agonizing and painful decision." >> mike this is what makes this pope so remarkable. >> yes. >> not changing policy. abortion is still a sin in the catholic church. but he keeps talking about forgiveness, whether it's abortion, whether it's other moral dilemmas.

>> everything. >> yeah. everything. he's saying who am i to judge? which is actually following what jesus said. judge not that you not be judged. >> this has been already in the brief papacy, amazing papacy. a world changing papacy geared to elements of the catholic faith that have not been forgotten but put on the way side for several years and they are mercy, forgiveness, and as the pope himself said, who am i to judge? >> sexual abuse scandal, divorce. >> and two other pieces, humility and nuance in this time where everybody is rigid. he is the man of the decade in terms of somebody who is actually coming at a tough culture and showing humility and showing nuance in some of the debates in a way that i think is having a disproportionate effect outside of acatholicism. >> it s every time you hear about faith, it makes alex very uncomfortable. you say god and he says move on!

okay. i'm going to finish this first though. it really is the spirit of you look at the gospel, i don't know why he hates god so much. i'm just joking. >> that's not a funny joke. >> it is if you know alex. >> he tells his god jokes all the time. take my god. please, i don't get. that that is rodney dangerfield. so anyway, nobody gets that unless you're over 80. so jesus though, when you look at jesus' ministry, he talks about sets very high bars. and people are like how can we -- how do we reach the standards? jesus, explains, it may be impossible for you, it may be impossible for a camel to get through the eye of a needle but nothing is impossible with god's love. yes, this is what this pope is doing. yes with, very rules. god laid down laws. we don't expect you to be perfect. but we do expect you to play to live about it guidelines. but if you fail, we have a forgiving god. that's been forgotten in the

church for only about 2,000 years. >> it's been the year of the church. think about south carolina, the church is led that community to forgive that young man what happened in that church. the church has had a great year. >> by the way, alex say he may not love god but he loves rodney dangerfield. >> a county clerk in kentucky is defying the supreme court by refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. >> we are not issuing them today. >> based on what? why are you not issuing marriage licenses to day? >> because i'm not. >> why? >> under what authority? >> under god's authority. >> i pay your salary! i pay you to discriminate against me right now. that's what i'm paying for. >> county clerk kim davis cited her opposition to gay marriage but says because she isn't issuing licenses to anyone, she

isn't discriminating. two federal courts ruled against her ordering her to do her job and the supreme court refused to block those decisions on monday. a federal judge has now ordered her to appear in court tomorrow. from nbc news -- >> really quickly, if that's what she believes and it certainly, you know, people of faith may not want to do that. and i certainly respect them for being consciousous objectors to this. but if you are, you need to find a new job. if the supreme court of the united states of america says this is how we interpret the constitution, do your job or go somewhere else. >> and in a practical level, she needs to be reassigned because this is becoming a media circus. i wouldn't want something bad to happen. nbcnews.com along with the news

she's expecting twin girls this december, yahoo chief executive says she is not taking advantage of the maternity policy. instead, the 40-year-old plans to work throughout her pregnancy and take limited time away as she did following the birth of her son in 2012 just months after taking the helm at yahoo. there's a lot of talk about this. criticism, i would think some support as well. what is your gut whether you hear that story? >> i read one thing on this last night, mika, that actually got to what i feel about it. a lot of criticism, a lot of talk about it. if she was a man, nobody would be raising this, right? this would be a complete nonstory. we wouldn't be discussing this. i think that's a very valid point. she's the ceo of a major company. she's going to deal with this how she needs to deal with it. i don't think if you're a ceo you can expect to take six months maternity leave off or three months maternity love own still be running yahoo. i don't think that's the way it

works. you make compromises if you're going to have twins. i think most people understand that. >> i disagree with katty here. i think if a man were having twins, i think the news would cover it. >> i actually think this is, katty -- >> we would be having a lot more interesting conversation about this if a man were having twins, you're right. we would be having the top doctors on the panel. >> i think this is a fascinating conversation about women, their choices and sort of the ramifications of those choices on other women. >> right. i think we want the choices to be there, right? the choices need to be there so that we can take them. and that's very important. and we've got to that position. now she's choosing not to take advantage of that maternity leave. i don't think that should mean other women shouldn't take advantage of maternity leave either. if they want to, they should. we have to have the options on the table. >> don't you think her level of affluence factors? >> sure. she can hire night nurses from the beginning, 15 of them if she wants. >> i think her stapding in yahoo

has something to do it with, too. she's not exactly secure in her position. so anybody judging her should just mind their own business because she's fighting for her job right now. >> but see then, i'm sorry this is why this is a bigger segment. i have a situation where i was not making her money and i didn't have maternity leave and i went rushing back fighting for my job and had a terrible accident. so there's different pressures on different women which is why it's not an easy conversation. but it's one we should have a lot of. because it takes it to the next level as women make it to the top. >> i don't think can you judge any woman is what i'm saying. >> oh, no. >> every situation is different. and so no one should be pointing fingers. >> do we increase the pressure on each other when decisions like that are made? it's a good conversation to have. >> if you're running yahoo, i'm sorry, you're not going to be able to take six months or three months off whether you're a man or a woman. >> i do agree with you. if a man did have a baby, i

think that is a observation we would have to address. >> that's a major news story. >> all right. still ahead, republican senator and presidential candidate lindsey graham joins us live. plus, he's spearheading the effort to draft joe biden into the race for 2016. senior adviser josh alhorn on the president's plans. but first, bill kristol joins us for the must-read opinion pages. he reveals what he considers the best democratic ticket. keep it right here on "morning joe." hey terry stop! they have a special! so, what did you guys think of the test drive? i love the jetta. but what about a deal? terry, stop! it's quite alright... you know what? we want to make a deal with you. we're twins, so could you give us two for the price of one? come on, give us a deal. look at how old i am. do you come here often? he works here, terry! you work here, right? yes... ok let's get to the point.

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to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. with us now with the must-read op-eds, we have the editor of "the weekly standard" bill kristol. you say the ppp poll is pure bogus. 66% of trump supporters believe he's a muslim. 62% -- we'll show the numbers. you talk and tell us why you think they're bogus. >> i just don't believe it. ppp is a democrat being polling firm. i want to see who they talked to. i think a lot of people enjoy talking about this at dinner time and it's a liberal firm probably. they decide to shock people by saying, yes, i think. that i don't think 15, 20 million americans are misled in that way. i actually met quite a few trump supporters.

i heard from a lot of them and didn't like it when i said trump would peak. there are crazy ones and overly devoted to the donald types. there are a lot of normal americans frustrated by the political class. >> you say can you ask questions of bernie sanders supporters and get similar results? >> sure. bush knows there weren't weapons of mass destruction in iraq which is a ridiculous point of view. he wouldn't have led noose wus r if you knew. that can you get crazy questions with polling. i said trump peaked about six weeks ago. i was a little early on that. >> you were right then. >> you said trump peaked like 20 times. >> but he has. >> actually, honestly if, you look -- look at the polls. he is stable. he is stable around 25%, 28%. he's never gone above that. >> i've seen some in the 30s. >> yeah, let's see if that hold. carson is gaining on him in iowa. i think he peaked. i think he is a important

phenomenon. and politicians should listen to him and take the lesson of trump seriously. >> what's the lesson of trum p?p >> republicans need to have a much more serious populous message including on economics. it has to be a substantive message. it can't be we're unhappy, we don't like washington and congress. it's worth listening to a trump speech. all americans like watching trump. he's interesting, livly and entertaining and he also talks about a bunch of issues. and a dogmatic belief, an orthodox republican conservative economic message does not work. >> doesn't. do you agree? >> you're agreeing? people are sick of phonies. they're sick of the same people. the same people that talk in a language that makes no sense to them whatsoever. they're sick of seeing the exact same faces and same stupid things over and over. >> and bill this is something that republicans need to understand. the base -- the base does not believe hedge funders should pay

14%. i'm talking about the conservative base. >> he has a lot of support. they're going to evenly spread. there are a lot of perot voters that people voted for hillary clinton in the 2008 primaries. that is a very good example. michael asked jeb bush last week, went to a bush rally, do you believe with trump that the exemption should be done away with? that's what allowed mitt romney to be paying 12% income tax. >> and obama i think 18%. >> and jeb bush said wait for my tax reform proposal. that will be an interesting one. next week bush is laying out big tax plan. >> he won't put it in there. >> he's got to put it in there. if the republican party is the party that defends a ridiculous exemption for hedge fund managers, it's the only way they can manage to lose this next year. >> i moderated a panel of governors at the republican governor's association, john kasich was talking about his

dad, milkman, milkman, doesn't understand the new fangled big type -- wall street republicans. i said okay. well your dad then would agree that a hedge fund guy shouldn't be paying 14% in taxes? >> well, i'm not going to get into a debate about carried interest. they don't touch it. they won't touch it. that's what makes trump trump right now. >> in the absence of anyone else taking that up, i agree. >> how do you explain the carson phenomenon? he is tied with trum notary public iowa. that is mystifying. >> two things. he actually is up in iowa on radio. he is on christian radio. he's a decent guy. he's not a politician. isn't trump trump, carson, fior? i think trump has an important message. i don't believe he'll be the nominee which is why i'm relaxed about it unlike a lot of media and republicans and conservatives pulling their hair out, trump is 28%, we have to

take him down or the air is going to end. he's going to go down. he won't be the nominee. republicans will end up with a good nominee, i think. i believe this. the democrats are -- the democrats have a front-runner who could be the nominee who is a deeply flawed candidate. the republicans have one that is entertaining and flawed that is not going to be the nominee. >> bill kristol, stay with us. still ahead, we're going to talk about joe biden. john kerry joins us live before a big speech today on the iran nuclear deal. up next, we'll talk to the man who was a top adviser to the late beau biden and leading the push to draft the vice president into the rain for the white house. we'll be right back. two streetlights. the only difference: that little blue thingy. you see it? that's a sensor. using ge software, the light can react to its environment- getting brighter only when it's needed. in a night, it saves a little energy.

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>> i can't wait to get in the ring with her or joe biden. if you want to turn around foreign policy, the last two people you should pick is his vice president and his former secretary of state. >> electing joe biden is like electing hillary clinton. it will be a continuation of our current policies. >> i'm a job producer. i have a great record. i haven't been involved in plagiarism. i think i would match up very well against bud. >> a new poll suggests vice president joe biden would be the top choice among democratic primary vote ferz hillary clinton falters. the reuters/ipsos poll asked who they would support. biden topped the list with 28%. two points ahead of vermont senator bernie sanlders. it comes as more public officials and politicians are now speaking out about a possible biden bid. delaware senator chris coons said he would support biden if he decides to run calling him "unmatched foreign policy and

national at security." and when the aflcio president was asked about biden yesterday, he told reporters the field is still wide open adding he could make a good candidate and good president. today biden heads to florida where he'll headline a private fund-raiser for senate democrats at miami-dade college. a lot going on with him. >> a lot going on. let's bring in the senior adviser of the draft biden super pac. a lot of people reading the tea leaves. is the vice president going to run for president? >> well, look, i certainly hope he does. the enthusiasm we've seen for his candidacy, for his potential candidacy over the last month or so that i've been with draft bide sen tremendous. we were in minneapolis at the dnc convention. the dnc meetings last week draft biden was in full presence. there was a lot of interest. a lot of folks want to see him on the debate stage in october and see him in this race. >> josh, what do you think right now, zbdespite your efforts, wh

are the biggest obstacles he's trying to get over to make this decision? >> i am not sure if there is any significant obstacles. what draft bide sn is doing is organizing. we're beginning to organize in key early states and key early states and we're just reminding people who joe biden is. so that's our focus. i'm sure that there's folks who would pontificate about challenges his campaign would face. those are questions for the future. draft biden has a mission right now. we're working to execute. that. >> bill kristol. >> you know i'm a draft biden enthusiast myself. i'm sure you're happy to hear. that it will help him a lot with the democratic primary voters. shouldn't he get in soon? he spent a month looking at this. i think doing so pretty dramatically and intelligently. he is marching with working class democrats on monday.

i'm worried that if he spends all month calculating he is weighing the odds. if he should be president, he should run. >> look, he's got a deliberatetive process. i said before it's our job at draft bide tone gin to give him space he needs. he had a firsthand, you know, a front row seat for the demands that the presidency puts on your family. he's run two national campaigns before. he's been on the ticket for two national campaigns. so he understands the process. draft biden is really here to do the organizing that he needs -- that we can do in advance of his announcement. the important thing is he's on the debate stage in october. >> okay. >> october 13th is an important day. >> josh, thank you very much. good to have you on the show. >> do you think it's going to happen? >> i don't think he runs. color me deeply skeptical on this one. he would have to get into the race and want to tear down hillary clinton to actually be

the nominee. i don't think if you look at the mood of the electorate, he's been in politics for 45 years running. yes, he's authentic. i don't think that's where the democratic party s i don't think that's where the general he lek rat s i think at the end of the day he'll make the calculation that will is not really room for him. is he really going to go down trying to bring hillary down? >> you look at the democratic numbers, people vote in the primary, they're overwhelmingly hillary people. >> yeah. listen, the vice president's best shot is if the hillary clinton campaign just collapses at some point and the party turns to him which i think, you know, could happen. who knows what's going to happen? i think that's his best shot. >> he's going to run. he's going to get in. he should get in labor day itself surrounded by working class democrats in pittsburgh where he's going to march with the labor fray. he'll get in. he'll either take off and be strong or he won't. if he isn't strong, elizabeth warren can get in. she will win the nod.

she would win the nomination. she is the fresh face and speaks for the heart and soul of the democratic party. >> one of the major republicans who thinks vice president joe biden should run in 2016, former vice president dick cheney will be here on set in our 7:00 a.m. hour. >> that will help him. that will help him a lot. that trumps my endorsement. >> yikes! ck? actually, knowing the kind of risk that you're comfortable with, i'd steer clear. straight talk. multiplied by 13,000 financial advisors it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. what do a nasca comedian... and a professional golfer have in common? we talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® has also been proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. i tried warfarin before,

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our heavy hitters are still ahead this morning.

former vice president dick cheney, secretary of state john kerry, and republican senator and 2016 hopeful lindsey graham all join us ahead. plus, when it comes to the fight on social media, jeb bush might be bringing a knife to a gun fight. we'll show you how he's trying to take on donald trump and what "politico" is calling operation backbone. and new details from the "washington post" that hillary clinton wrote and sent at least six e-mail that's contained classified information. keep it right here on "morning joe." do you like the passaaadd?

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finest and shiniest journalism out there. tonight we present weather man stevie jacobs from today australia with the award for cleanse in reporting. ♪ >> you get military training and become -- oh, no. >> we'll give an honorable mention tonight to gavin gray of bbc news for reading everything in the teleprompter whether he was supposed to read it or not. >> we didn't really know full story of what was going on. all of a sudden, five hours later we're not supposed to be at our destination, when he to deboard the plane. >> pause for effect. now a russian has been crowned champion in finland. >> that didn't happen. did it happen? >> wow. >> welcome back to "morning

joe." it's the top of the hour. harold ford jr., bill kristol and katty kay still us with and moderator of meet the press chuck todd. a lot to talk about this morning. you want to do jeb-trump first? >> it's ugly, chuck. >> it's getting ugly. >> i'm trying to figure out if this is a good idea for jeb or not. >> exactly. >> i think if he was standing by and not responding to a text, i get that everybody would be jumping and going why are you not responding? why aren't you an alpha male and all this, when you think about where his campaign was six months ago this is not the campaign he said he was going to run. i'm not going to run this type of campaign. i'm going to run -- this is not a joyful campaign. this can't be joyful right now. >> not only that, the strategy of it. you're jeb bush, you're the front-runner. you're supposed to be above it all. i go back to 2004 as a classic example of how you can take

somebody else down but you take yourself down. howard dean had all the way to iowa. dick gephardt knows he has to take howard dean down. he does. he takes himself down as well. he allows john kerry to slip into first place and win the nomination. i don't think jeb wants to be known as the guy that just takes down donald trump. >> i get the theory which is trump has 100% name id. he is sitting at 25-30. that means there is a large chunk of the party that's not for trump. >> right. >> it's not like he's an unknown figure. >> right. >> so that's the theory of the case. the problem for jeb is this is just not -- this is just not who he is. it just doesn't feel -- it just doesn't feel like it's a comfortable place for him. >> jeb needs to play the long game. i do agree with bill on this. we've been saying that donald is going to be the race. he was going to be relevant. he was going to do very well.

but you never heard me say i think donald will get 50% plus one. he may. but if i'm jeb bush, i play the long game. i have a lot better chance of getting 50 plus than donald trump. i just don't care. i've seen it a billion time and so you have. august is crazy time. and then we go into the fall. still a little crazy in iowa. a little less crazy in new hampshire. swing south to south carolina. usually gets a little more conservative. i always say when those states -- when those contests start going north, they start going to the midwest, then they go back to winner take all, when new york, connecticut, and new jersey all in one day and poof, the crazy gets sucked out of the race. i'm not saying it's trump. trump and carson are doing better today than they will be doing a year from now. >> i've not been bullish on

jeb's prospect. i think he's overrated as a candidate. i do admire the flip side of what you say. this isn't the campaign he wanted to run. successful candidates often have to adjust to circumstances. and do not run the campaign and want to run. they have to run the campaign they have to run. he is where he s i admire him for being willing to pivot and do what he has to do to get in the fight. he needs to go to a positive messa message. >> don't you think this is driven by donors? >> yes. 100%. >> why don't you fight back? >> right. that's what i think had s i don't think he wouldn't fight back. why don't you say this about him? why don't you say that about him? >> i think that's what this is. >> i think joe said it well when you talked about he had to play it where he s he is a dentist much he's boring. you remind people you can manage the country. he would do a little of both. the contrast between jeb bush and donald trump ultimately jeb bush wins in a because people come home.

if he runs the candidate like he did a week and a half ago and continues this contrast, he finds himself in good shape. >> so jeb bush squared off against donald trump yesterday in a series of moves that "politico's" michael enis calling operation backbone. it began with this post on youtube. >> i lived in new york city and manhattan my whole life. my views are a little different than if i lived in iowa. >> partial birth adoration, i'm very pro-choice. >> are you a democrat or a

sflen. >> you'd be shocked if i said in many cases i probably identify more as a democrat. >> then why are you a republican? >> i have no idea. >> trump waste nod time hd no t back on twitter. he is low in the polls as the others that have gone after me and jeb is spending millions of dollars on hit ads. bad system. and while the full bush ad was 91 seconds, trump hit back with a 15 second instagram post. >> we recognize the commitment of someone who devoevot devoted to public service, hillary clinton. >> what does that make hillary clinton to the bush family? >> my sister-in-law. you know who enjoyed watching that? marco rubio. seriously. bush goes after trump. a negative dose on both of them. >> bring it down.

>> yeah. >> the attacks also continued off line and in spanish which bush spoke to reporters at a school in miami. [ speaking spanish ] >> donald trump met yesterday with the ceo of the u.s. hispanic chamber of commerce ceo. he'll attend a meeting on october 8. >> that will be fascinating. a new poll finds that donald trump is benefitting from support of those who think president obama is a secret muslim, born in another country and that immigrant children

should be deported. two shirdz of tr-thirds of trum believe that obama is a muslim. 12% will say he's a christian tlach. that is a 14 point net difference. another 61% think he was not born in the united states of america. 21% will admit that he was a 25-point net difference from the rest of the party. 63% would amend the constitution to remove birthright citizenship. 20% keep it intact. again, more conservative than the rest of the party. >> you're skeptical. >> yeah, i want to know how the questions were asked. they have a history of requesting the questions very leading in how they do it zblflt do you think they're trying to indicate something that doesn't exist? >> i'm shocked that i -- no, i'm -- whenever they mess around on this topic, you start looking and say boy you're asking for an answer here. too much.

i'm not saying that there aren't, you know, i'm just saying that it's instead of 41% it's 61% the way they do it. i would be skeptical. >> the bloomberg poll did find similar things there. but i think it will take a few more polls. >> so in just about two weeks the top republican candidates will debate for a second time and there will likely be one more candidate on stage. the original rules were going to make the ten person cut with polling dating back to july which could have undercut car lee fiorina who surged after her first debate foremanance. the new rules for entry announced yesterday by cnn will also include any candidate who has ranked in the top 10 since the first debate. meaning fiorina gets a spot. and there will be 11 candidates on stage. this as another poll in the iowa caucus shows outsiders leading in iowa with donald trump and ben carson far ahead of jeb bush. this is the third consecutive

iowa poll with carson in second or tied for first place. >> so let's look at that poll. trump, carson, bush, cruz, walker, fiorina, huckabee down at 4. and the last winner, not even showing up. of course santorum and then marco rubio not even showing up. it's tough to get oxygen out there, isn't it? >> i think this year you'll not have to be in the first two or three in iowa to continue on and possibly be the nominee, six, seven, eight people, maybe nine. i think someone who runs fifth or sixth in iowa can be the nominee. the exchange between bush and trump you showed a few minutes ago that, is smart for bush in the sense that it boosts carson. if you're a conservative in iowa, you sort of like trump's message. you shake things off. you discover he is pro-choice. who do you go to? you don't go to jeb bush. you go to ben carson. that's fine for bush and rubio and the others if it stops trump's momentum. >> carson by far favorability of

any candidate running. favorabilities are over the top. >> look at that. >> and you hear -- when you talk to voters and ask him, why are are you for carson? the first thing they say is, i mean sh the one thing that you should know about him is he is a brain surgeon. you say he's smart. well, he's a smart guy. he'll figure it out. almost as if politics isn't brain surgery. and this guy is an expert at it. you can almost picture him running that ad. right? politics isn't brain surgery. but it's not bad to have a brain surgeon do it. >> all right. "the washington post" reports that hillary clinton wrote and sent at least six e-mail that's contained classified information while using a private server. the revelations found in monday's release suggest that clinton's role in distributing sensitive material went beyond receiving notes written by others on the e-mail system kept in her home. government officials deemed the information confidential after she left office but her personally writing the messages

contradict what's they claimed in march when the private server was first revealed. >> i did not e-mail any classified material to anyone on my e-mail. there is no classified material. so i certainly well aware of the classification requirements and did not send classified material. >> the u.n. press conference seems to be every day goes by just seems to have one more brick pulled out of the wall. if it hasn't completely crumbled down, it's close. >> she seems to be spinning herself in knots on this one and a lot of it is a self-made problem. you have to wonder when she gave that press conference back at the united nations, wasn't she aware of the six e-mail that's are now being found, that are being released and potentially there are more as they go through further e-mails.

i still think in term of the public you're right. what we were discussing in the last hour this is not so much about the e-mails themselves. really people clear on what is the difference between classified and confidential and the whole thing about the server seems incredibly complicated technically and politically, it's her response to it that's the problem. and it has been her response all along that's the problem. and trying to -- the more she sounds like a politician about this, the more she sounds like she has her lawyer sitting on her shoulder dictating what she says. the less she sounds like the authentic person that is donald trump that is getting all of this appeal. and the contrast between the two, particularly on this issue of the e-mails and her response to it, couldn't be starker. >> chuck, they're getting into september. it's been a terrible summer for hillary. what is the impact going into the fall? >> i think it's -- i think we're seeing it. i feel like some of her democratic opponents now are getting more comfortable talking

about this for the first time. not just martin o'malley who is a desperate mode but even bernie sanders, even though he says i'm not going to do it, you get the sense and people around him, i think this isn't going away. and now october, this hearing, it is now turning into a more important than any debate she's going to be in. like this will be a make or break moment for her campaign. how does she handle it? how does house republicans handle questioning her? that's going to be -- there is that fine line they could end up helping her if they go too far. how she handles herself. but we're now -- it just feel as if we're waiting for that moment in six weeks. >> all right. katty kay, bill kristol and chuck todd, thank you all. two very opposing views on the iran nuclear deal. secretary of state john kerry joins us live and republican senator and 2016 hopeful linldcy graham is here as well. and up next, former vice president dick cheney and liz

cheney standing by. we think they may have a thing or two to say about iran as well. >> thank god. >> you're watching "morning joe." here is a simple math problem. two trains leave st. louis for albuquerque at the same time. same cargo, same size, same power. which one arrives first? hint: it's not the one on the left. the speedy guy on the right is part of an intelligent system that creates the optimal trip profile for all trains on the line. and the one on the left? uh, looks like it'll be counting cows for awhile. so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. if an electric toothbrush was going to clean better than a manual. he said sure... but don't get just any one. get one inspired by dentists. with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's rounded brush head cups your teeth to break up plaque, and rotates to sweep it away. and oral-b delivers a clinically proven

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this afternoon i'm going to interview dick cheney and liz cheney. it will be interesting to see if he has an opinion on donald trump. i think that will change the arc back to the campaign and then donald trump is going to have to respond to that. they're going to have to talk about very serious subjects. >> it's exceptional. >> did you have to pay him? >> no. we're thinking of getting off the road ourselves and just having him do it. >> that would be nice, right? book tours are hard. joining us now, the former vice president of the united states, dick cheney along also with us liz cheney, a former deputy assistant secretary of state. they are co-authors of the book

"exceptional: why america needs a new america" and they are also father-daughter. >> you have not been cheating on your wind sprints. you're in great shape. i saw you here a couple years ago and -- you're healthy. >> three years ago i got a new heart. >> my gosh. >> thanks to a donor and modern medicine and prayers of a lot of people. and it's remarkable. the whole new lease on life. >> good heart? >> good heart. >> it's working. >> fantastic. >> wow, let's talk about -- these are crazy times. >> they are. >> you think you've seen it all. and then donald trump gets into the race. >> that's correct. >> and -- >> lots of surprises. >> what's going on with the republican party right now? >> i think we've got obviously a lot of candidates. i think there is good talent there. i think it will sort itself out over time. that's the way the primary system is supposed to work. but our concern when doing the book was to make certain that national security issues were

front and senter in this campaign. >> right. >> and our party and part of the national debate. >> are they? >> you think they will be. i think given the threat levels out there that are rising around the world and what we believe is our diminished capacity to deal with those threats, i think it's very important. >> what have we done over the past seven years, eight years? we have to talk about the deal with the iranians. our capacity to project power is significantly less than what it used to be. the former chief of staff of the army just retired. he said the army's readiness level is the lowest it's ever been in the history of the army. we have serious problems. >> i'm looking back over the previous eight years. what's the worst mistake that you and president obama made that still having an impact on the middle east? >> i think we got a right with

respect to iraq. and when we left, iraq was in bad shape. >> you got what right? >> the situation in iraq was stable when we left. and there was a coalition government, the vice president was a sunni. and there were sunni officers in mi the military ranks after we left and after obama pulled out a stay behind force. that created a vacuum and isis came on to the map. i think that was a significant problem. >> was going into iraq in 2003 the original sin? >> no, i think it's the right thing to do. >> hit nuclear programs. israelis took it out in '81. we took it out in '91 with desert storm. >> wasn't the world more stable with saddam hussein in power? >> no.

when we took down saddam, kadavy gave up his nuclear program. he had weapons design. >> would you have kept him in power, muammar qaddafi? >> what i'm saying is mow march kada kadavy, i agree with you on this point, muammar qaddafi was frightened by what he saw. the united states wasn't going to tolerate nuclear weapons. so he did a deal. should we have worked to keep him in place or should we -- >> no. the most important thing was he get rid of the nuclear materials. imagine what would have happened if he hadn't done that and isis moved in and took over in libya? they would have ended up with -- >> my question is did barack obama make a mistake by pushing muammar qaddafi out? >> i can't say that he did. i don't know how long he would have survived under those circumstances. we came very close to having a radical group acquiring nuclear capability. the same thing in eastern syria when they built a reactor.

fortunately the isies took it out in '07. isis would have occupied that part of syria and they would have inherited the nuclear materials. so we have come very close already with respect to the possibility of these materials flowing into the hands of radicals and that was the direct result. the fact that it didn't especially with respect to libya because we took down saddam. >> let's look forward, liz. what do we move forward with the challenges we have especially with isis who we find out that pentagon's been exaggerating possibly exaggerating their claims on our success against isis. i didn't even know we were doing that well against isis. >> right. i think one of the things that we want to make sure we did in the book is give the historical perspective and talk about how far this president has departed from a bipartisan tradition of 7 75 years, understanding a need for a strong america, powerful america. and then also lay out a series of recommendations for the path

forward. so on an issue like isis, we have to make sure we defeat isis. the president said that. but then his actions haven't met that objective. >> what should we do? >> i think we need to -- >> that he's not doing. >> we probably need to deploy additional people, deploy special operators, people that can call in air support. >> how many? lindsey graham talked about 10 now thou. >> you have to ask the commanders. look, we need to defeat isis. what it is going take to do it? this has to be objective driven. >> what you have learned from the commander? >> i know you talk to military people. obviously you guys are still involved. what number do you hear? >> i don't want to give a number. i think that is irresponsible. the way a president should operate is if isis is the threat that we believe it is and that president has said it is, he needs to say to his commanders, how do we win? how do we defeat them? then the commanders say here's what it's going to take. >> this isn't a gotcha question. we want this to be part of the debate.

i'm sure chaerve is concernever about isis. do we need to send 10,000 troops? >> it may than we need to deploy additional ground forces and that may be the number. >> are the generals being ignored here? >> i think there has been a breakdown between the white house and the military. i don't think they listen to the military. i think that all of those decisions are being made inside the white house. a string of decisions. there is an objective in the white house. >> i want to ask about iran. you're bringing me back to october of 1979, the hostage crisis. but moving forward, looking at the iran deal, is there any better option than going with this deal now and building upon it? >> absolutely. i think that at this point as we lay out in the book and as has been explained, what this deal will do is provide hundreds of billions of dollars to the world's worst state sponsor of terror. lift the ban on conventional weapons. lift the ban on the preliminary

program a -- ballistic missile program. reject the deal, go back to the negotiating table and actually negotiate from a position of strength. it's interesting you mention october 79. your dad was there and had the firsthand experience of attempting to open a relationship with this new government that had just taken over then, making tremendous offers of providing the weapons we've been planning to sell to the shah. they rejected it, walked away from the table and seized our embassy. so we tried for many, many years the approach as president has taken. it's clearly not effective. >> there is a collaborative effort with a lot of, you know, different countries involved. wouldn't it hurt our credibility? you're talking about exceptionalism. you're talking about our power. don't we undermine our own power if we go back on a deal that has been negotiated for months and months and months? >> but the deal is propositioned that it's a good deal and it's not. if you look at the things that

have been given away, the fact that, for example, the nonproliferation treaty, been in force since the 1970s, has been the key in terms of fairly successful in term of limiting proliferation. one thing they give away here inadvertently, perhaps, but when they allow iran to continue with enrichment, there are breaking one of the key requirements with respect to the nonproliferation treaty where enrichment is limited. here we're giving enrichment capability to the iranians. it will directly lead, i believe, to an arms race in the middle east. saudis, emirates, others are not going to stand by and watch iran acquire nukes and not have some themselves. >> i don't want to live in the rearview mirror, i'm sure you don't want to either. but your comments about iraq to joe trumps the question who,

what administration signed the status of forces agreement that provided the withdrawal mechanisms for american troops in iraq? what administration presided over the debaathification and drove it to civil war? was it the obama administration or yours? >> the status forces agreement, there was one in place for while we had our forces there. there needed to be a follow on agreement. the follow on status of forces agreement. and that's what was never negotiated. that led to the ultimate withdrawal with respect to the u.s. -- >> it wasn't negotiated because the iraqis wouldn't go along with providing coverage for american soldiers implicated in the war crimes. >> but we negotiated 40 of those around the world. there is always a controversy over the sovereignty of the host country. and it could have been done here if the administration were serious about it. they weren't. the numbers that the commanders thought they needed for a stay behind force was never agreed to

by the white house. they continued to reduce the number of troops. i think from maliki's standpoint, he didn't feel he could go to the parliament and run the political risk he would have to run. >> and just one quick question on the iranian pact. what is your understanding? what is your estimate of how quickly iran would get a nuclear weapon without this agreement? would it be shorter period of time or it would be the 15 years? >> i think it's an interesting question, mike. even the president himself has admitted there is a sunset clause. and we're talking up to a decade for the most part. after that, the iranians have complement ability to acquire nuclear arsenal basically with the sanctioning, legitimatization. >> we're not going to get that far. >> that's my point. >> i'm sorry, i will say it. the iranians are going to cheat. they're going to get their money and they're going to be able to use the money. >> that's what i was going to say. exactly. it's not going to get ten years.

anybody thinks the iranians are going to go ten years without cheating are fools. we've been looking for moderates in iran since 1979. we give them birthday cakes, bibles. there are no moderates still in iran. please tell me, what is going to stop the iranians from taking the money and then cheating? >> nothing. >> how do we get that money back? >> well, obviously the money flows once you lift the sanctions. >> exactly. we don't get the money back. >> what we need to do is have congress reject the deal. it ought to be treated as a treaty, for one thing. i'm offended by the fact that it's not treated as a treaty. it should require two-thirds vote of the senate to go in force. the democrats are talking about filibustering the whole thing. there will never be a vote. no member of the senate will have to be recorded. i think that's outrageous. >> listen, joe biden needs help. he's trying to decide whether to run. >> come on, joe.

this is where i'm going to interrupt. >> he needs strong endorse dmen. >> mr. vice president, you behave, please. >> i would like you right now to tell me whether joe biden should run, if it's good for america for joe biden to run? >> i think it's good for the democratic party. they need more choices. they're far short of candidates compared us to. >> yes, do you. >> i'd love to see joe run. my attitude is go for it, joe. >> you actually worked with him before. >> i've known joe quite a while. he's a good guy. we don't agree on very much. >> right. >> but all the years i was vice president, president of the senate, he was serving in the senate. >> before we go, we have john kerry coming up. he may not agree with you either. want to ask what is the greatest threat to this country right now? we have a very short memory. everybody wants to retreat and then they see one or two americans get their heads cut off and suddenly they want to start spending more money. but the greater threat, i all said is iran and not isis.

what is the greatest threat to the united states of america? is there another possibility of 9/11? >> i think there is another possibility of 9/11. i think may time it will be a lot deadlier than box cutters and airplanes. i think you'll have the problem of proliferation of nuclear weapons in the middle east. this isn't just about iran getting nukes. this is also about the neighboring states that are going to insist on getting their own. they have the money to pay for it. that will be a big problem. it's going to happen right away. that is not going to be the kind of thing that 15 years down the road they may do it. it will be far shorter. >> we were talking about saudis, emirates, egypt. >> all right. the sbook exceptional. "why the world needs a powerful america." can you read an excerpt on our website. former vice president dick cheney and liz cheney, thank you very much. we really appreciate it great to see you. in a few minutes, the man who

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all right. a lot straight ahead on "morning joe." secretary john kerry was listening to the interview we did with dick cheney. he is standing by ahead of his big speech today in defense of the iran nuclear agreement.

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live customer support, and better pricing. visit angieslist.com today. the deal is propositioned on that it's a good deal and it's not. it will directly lead, i believe, to an arms race in the middle east, saudis, emirates, others, are not going to stand by and watch iran acquire nukes and not have something to sell. >> it is 41 past the hour. joining us now, secretary of state john kerry whose name, mr. secretary, keeps popping up at dinner conversations across the country saying he should run for president. >> i already did. >> good sense of humor. again. again. >> and you came very close. i think that's why people are saying he needs -- no, wait. seriously. >> that's cute. >> everywhere we go, your name keeps coming up. >> just sayin'.

>> that will be another conversation. you've had some big business. you heard the vice president, vice president cheney speak before. i want to bring up one of the issues that he brought up that we hear a lot b i know you heard a lot about this also from worried lawmakers. does this deal not encourage sunni arab states, especially the saudis and the uae possibly egypt, turkey, to joins the arms race? >> i don't believe so. in fact, joe, i really believe the fastest way to a genuine arms race in middle east is not to have this agreement. because if you don't have this agreement, iran has already made clear what its direction is. and that is a direction that is only slowed down or stopped by this agreement. in other words, if there are no inspections, if there's no regime by which they have to roll back their current program, if there is no insight to their program day to day if, we don't have the additional 150

inspectors going into iran, if we don't have requirements under international law that they have to allow us access to be able to inspect a suspicious site, that is what will provoke each of those nations to say uh-oh, these guys are free and moving in a direction we know. therefore, we have to rush to do it. it is precisely the opposite of what former vice president said. it is because we have this agreement fully implemented and i emphasize fully implemented. if this agreement is in place, we will know to a certainty what iran is doing. and that precludes any necessity for any of those countries to proceed forward to chase a weapon on their own. that's why more than 100 nations that have come out and taken a position on this say this is a good agreement and they support it. and only one nation is opposed. >> okay.

>> that's why so many people around the world believe this is the good agreement that we've talked about. >> which leads to the second concern that the vice president brought up. not just the vice president but a lot of people brought up. if the iranians stick to the terms of the agreement, it does push off the date at least a decade. but what have you seen during these negotiations that would lead you to believe they aren't going to see the sanctions lifted, take the money and then walk away from the deal three years from now? >> they're in very serious trouble if they do that. >> what are the implications of that action? >> i will tell that you, joe. let me just explain first of all where we are. before we began negotiations, iran had already mastered the fuel cycle. iran had 19,000 centrifuges. iran had 12,000 kilograms of a stockpile of material which is enough for 10 to 12 bombs. that's before we began.

iran is already a threshold nation. this fear that is being expre expressed by opponents, oh, my gosh this agreement is going to allow them to become a threshold nation in 15 years is completely misplaced because they already are that threshold nation. and the question is what are we going to do about it today? i was interested to hear liz cheney say two things, one, she invoked mika's father as an example of how to do things. well, i'm proud to say is a strong supporter of this agreement. she secondly said that this sun sets and even president obama's admitted it. no, it never sun sets. there's no sunset in this agreement. there is a ten year extra strong restraint on what they can do. there's a 15 year restraint on what they did do. there is a 10 year restraint. there's a 25 year restraint which requires all their uranium to be tracked from the mine to

the grave. but the additional protocol and the requirement to live under access and inspection is for the lifetime of this agreement. so eye lan is never free to go move towards a weapon. that is just a misstatement that is repeated again and again and again by the opponents. they are never free to do this. and if we do the right job of inspecting and israel and the gulf states and we in our friends, france, germany, britain, china, russia all are doing the right level of intelligence gathering, believe me, we will know what iran is doing. >> let's talk about a world without an agreement, mr. secretary. how long would it be in your estimati estimation, how quickly would the iranians get a nuclear weapon, get to a nuclear weapon without an agreement and how

quickly would money flow into iran without an agreement? >> without an agreement, mike, money will flow immediately. there are countries chomping at the bit to do business. by the way, that's another misstatement by opponents. i heard liz cheney say that hundreds of billions of dollars would flow. that is not accurate. there is a maximum of $55 billion and we don't hold it in american banks. that's why the money will begin to flow and countries will begin to do business and sanctions will fall apart because people will look at this agreement and say wait a minute, the united states has been enforcing the sanctions but theret ones who walked away from the agreement so why should we live by the sanctions? i can't tell you exactly how many ms. it would be before iran. it depends on how many centrifuge thez spin and whether they decide to dig deep near a mountain, hide their program more, try to avoiz consequend c.

it could take longer under those circumstances. what i can tell you is if we walk away from this agreement given the suspicion that's the supreme lead her about entering into negotiations us with, we will have proven their worst fears. you can't deal with the west. you can't trust the west. therefore, they have to go do what they have to do to protect themselves. and they will get a weapon one way or the other as a result of not accepting this agreement. >> mr. secretary, harold ford. good morning. >> good morning. >> two quick questions and the concerns that some expressed one, the any time, anywhere inspections, the agreement calls for 21 or 24-day notice that the iranians have before they come n how do you answer that? and, two, the idea that $100 to $2 hundred h00 hundred billion into iran. what safeguards are in the agreement to guard or protect against that, sir? >> harold, first of all, we have a number of restraints in the

agreement itself and outside of the agreement that prevent the iranians or allegedly prevent the iranians, it hasn't been enforced adequately. that is something the president is going to double down on. is making certain that the u.n. resolutions that prohibit the flow of weapons to hezbollah, for instance, that's outside of this agreement. and we will enforce that. the flow of weapons to the iraqi shia militia, that is a u.n. resolution separate from this agreement. the flow of weapons to the huti in yemen that, is separate from this agreement. if those are properly enforced, iran can be held accountable for its choices in the future. but with respect to the 24 days, i've heard so many kind of, you know, off the wall comments about well they can flush it down the toilet or it can disappear in that period of time. we're talking about nuclear material, enriched material. you cannot make a bomb without

enriched material. >> right. >> and nuclear material cannot be hidden in a span of 24 days, 24 months, 24 24 years. this is something that can't be eradicated and our intel community has done experiments checking on ways to get rid of it. it's impossible to do. we're confident that those 24 days are really a process. they are not an end time -- they are not a -- they are not -- it's not a requirement that it be 24 days. there's a 24-hour notification and technically, we could get access within 24 hours after that. but the key here is that our technical people, our experts are absolutely convinced that nothing can be hidden in that span of time that presents a threat. >> all right, mr. secretary, we have to let you go. before we go, we've got a quick and easy question that shouldn't

take longer than five seconds. israeli and palestinian peace process, it's not going to be the red sox, that is an easy one to answer. but really quickly, dr. brzezinski will be asking, why did you not ask the question? i know you're in the middle of this, any chance of future talks or future progress? >> i believe there is a chance and i think it is imperative we have not lost sight of that issue in one iota. it hasn't been right for a number of different reasons. when this is finished, it's our hope that there will be a way to try to proceed forward. i just read today that prime minister netanyahu said he's ready to have open negotiations with no strings attached, no preconditions. let's wait and see what happens. i think we have to get through the next weeks before we start talking about the rest of the agenda. >> secretary of state john kerry, you know, that john

kerry, whenever he takes a job, he goes for the small stuff. >> small stuff, exactly. >> thank you. >> thank you, john. we appreciate it, mr. secretary. >> great to be with you, thank you. still ahead, a man who calls the iran nuclear deal a marriage from hell. republican senator and presidential candidate lindsey graham joins us onset and tomorrow former governor mike huckabee will be on the show. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ (dorothy) toto, i've a feeling we're not in kansas anymore... (morpheus) after this, there is no turning back.

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we still have a lot to come in the next hour, another damaging detail emerges before hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server. the report that claims at least six e-mails she wrote contained classified information. and the latest round of jabs between jeb bush and donald trump that is turning into a social media smackdown. plus, marissa may er expecting twins, we'll talk about the buzz about her decision about maternity leave. keep it here on "morning joe." you may think it's a result of brushing too hard. it's not. it's a sign of early gum disease... which you can help reverse by using listerine(r). added to your brushing routine...

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what did iran's supreme leader get in the nuclear deal? to start with, $100 billion. they keep their nuclear facilities and ballistic missiles. there won't be surprise anytime-anywhere inspections. and after ten years, restrictions are lifted and iran could build a nuclear weapon in two months. congress should reject a bad deal. we need a better deal.

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for first time in weeks donald trump is not alone in the republican field, according to a new poll, trump and ben carson are tied in iowa at 23%. car jeb bush only has 5%, polling slightly above the margin of error. things are looking so bleak for jeb bush, he's changing his logo, to going from this, jeb 2016, to this. i like it better actually. i think it's more understated. >> i don't know, the fight has begun.

>> jeb went after trump yesterday. donald trump supporters, what they believe and what they don't believe, really ugly stuff that i know donald will have to confront. >> we have mike barnicle and harold ford in washington and katy kay. >> harold, you and i both lawyers, both went to law school. this kentucky clerk is refusing -- >> we have that in news. >> refusing to actually perform marriages, right? define the united states supreme court, you get republicans saying the 14th amendment doesn't say what it clearly says. now you've got republicans clearly defying the united states supreme court. i mean, it's really ugly out there. and this party has got to be very careful in august and september of 2015 how they define themselves for 2016.

we're a nation of laws. whether i like those laws or not, i follow those laws. >> i watched one of the numbers you had up on the earlier shows and catholic voters, 44 to 39 view gay marriage -- 44 against 39 say it's okay. even the catholic church finds itself coming around. for an elected official to selectively choose which laws he or she is going to enforce, it's not just a political partisan issue and says a lot about where politics is and the sanity and intelligence of our politics are. >> even if it's 90-10, you follow the supreme court and united states constitution. >> we have a lot of other news to get to including that. first we start with politics, the jeb bush versus donald trump social media war got off to an early start yesterday. did you see this? >> jeb is leaning in, baby. >> it began with this bush salvo

on youtube. >> i lived in new york city and manhattan all my life, my views are different than if i lived in iowa. >> partial birth abortion? >> i'm very pro-choice, i'm pro-choice in every respect and as far as it goes. >> as far as single payer, it works in canada and works incredibly well in scotland. >> the fact is 25% for high income people, it should be raised substantially. >> who would you like representing the united states in a deal with iran with this regime there? >> i think hillary would do a good job. >> do you identify more as a democrat or republican? >> you would be shocked if i said in many cases i probably identify more as a democrat -- >> why are you republican? >> i have no idea. >> trump wasted no time -- >> in all fairness, a lot of times looking at how bad the republicans are in washington, d.c., a lot of times i say i have no idea. >> trump wasted no time hitting

back on twitter, yet another weak hit by a candidate with a failing campaign. will jeb sink as low in the polls as the others who have gone after me? and jeb is spending millions of dollars on hit ads funded by lobbyists and special interests, bad system. and while the full bush ad was 91 seconds, trump hit back with another 15 second instagram post. >> we roitz the commitment of someone who has devoted her life to public service. i want to say thank you to both secretary clinton and to president clinton. >> what does that make hillary clinton to the bush family? >> my sister-in-law. >> the attacks continued offline. and in spanish when bush spoke to reporters, this is pretty good. take a look. [ speaking spanish ]

>> and donald trump met with the ceo of the u.s. hispanic chamber and commerce. he'll attend a question and answer session with them on october 8th. >> that's going to be fascinating. >> the "washington post" reported how this was a high risk strategy for jeb bush. all of the supporters are saying you've got to go after trump but the risk is you only strengthen trump. what's your take? >> dwro see it as a risk at all. why not? nobody wants to be lectured to. they want to see someone tough and conservative and out there

trying to prove his tough guy bona fide. donald trump does it terrifically well, your reading of the tweets is fantastic, points of emphasis where he points the points of emphasis. he's better at it. i think if you believe like most people in washington believe that eventually trump burns out, jeb is doing exactly what he should be doing if he wants to be the person that replaces them. >> and kathleen parker has an op-ed saying it is time to take the gloves off, republicans and go after donald trump. that hasn't worked in the past and hasn't worked for the texas governor and hasn't worked for lindsey graham. >> it has to be the right one. a new poll to this point finds that donald trump is benefitting from support of those who think that president obama is a secret muslim born in another country. and that immigrant children should be deported. public policy polling finds that two-thirds of trump supporters believe the president of the united states is a muslim, only

12% will say he's a christian. that is 12 points higher that be mainstream of the republican party. another 61% think he was not born in the united states of america. 21% will admit he was again substantially higher than the rest of the party and 63% would amend the constitution to remove birth right citizenship. 20% would keep it intact. more conservative than the rest of the party. >> jim, there's a new piece up on politico called donald trum ep's coalitiocoalition. 66% of trump supporters of the latest poll say he's a muslim. 62% say he wasn't born in america and 62% are birthers and another high number that want to actually change the 14th amendment. >> i mean, you're a republican, how do you deal with that? let's call dumb dumb. if you believe he wasn't born in

the united states, if you really believe he's see kreltly a muslim when he says he's a christian. how do you as a republican play with that hand? that's why donald trump is doing terrifically well. there is a segment of the republican party that is hostile -- >> the problem is it's not just donald trump, scott walker asked do you think barack obama is a christian? couldn't answer the question. >> he was asked the question like -- >> litigated and resolved in 2008 and 2012. it seems odd. six or eight or 12 weeks ago you talked about the openings that republicans may have because of a weak economy, uncertainty around foreign policy. the iranian deal, front page of the newspapers around china -- donald trump is supposed to be a expert on jobs, he doesn't talk about these things. to talk about barack obama is a muslim or born in the u.s., you have to wonder if the republicans are secretly, trying

to make it so much easier for democrats to win nationally. >> it seems to me that reporters are going to have to ask, cnn in debate will have to ask donald trump at least two questions. do you believe barack obama is a muslim? do you believe barack obama was born in the united states of america? i mean, if two-thirds of his supporters believe he's a muslim and two-thirds believe he was born outside of the country despite the fact the evidence states otherwise, i think that -- he's got to speak the truth to his followers. >> those are fair enough. donald trump is single handedly the biggest figure in the birther movement and demanded the birth certificate be shown. not asking those questions frankly would be negligent when ut say that his supporters are echoing his points of view. so they've got to ask him that and they've got to do a little bit more of what jeb bush has just done. take donald trump's past and

present it to him. that in a way is the most effective form of counter attack against donald trump. this is what you said you believed on abortion. this is what you said you believed in the past when it comes to whether you're a democrat or republican and what you believed on a national health care system. those are the kinds of things i think you'll have to see more of, both from the candidates and during the debate process as well. the guy is so far ahead, if they don't start attacking him at some point, he'll have got too far ahead. they probably should have started earlier in the summer. it's a little late now but they have no choice at this point. >> speaking of debates, joel in the commercial break yesterday you predicted this but cnn chaz changed the rules and carly fiorina gets a spot on stage as of now. >> before the ohio debate, i said they'll figure out a way to get john kasich in and sure nur the rules changed and i said

yesterday, do you think carly will get in? yes, they'll rig in a way to make sure carly gets in. >> john kasich made so much of a case for minimum wage increase so we'll get to that in a second. >> the "washington post" reports this morning that hillary clinton wrote and sent at least six e-mails that contained classified information while using her private server. the revelations found in monday's release suggest that clinton's role in distributing sensitive material went beyond receiving notes written by others on the e-mail system kept in her home. government officials deemed the information confidential but personally writing messages contradicts what she claimed in march when the private server was first revealed. >> i did not e-mail any classified material to anyone on my e-mail. there is no classified material. so i certainly am well aware of the classification requirements

and did not send classified material. >> that's just ridiculous. first of all, i'm glad she said at the time that she was aware of classified requirements because it's -- this bs about it was not marked when that's no standard whatsoever, i'm glad she admitted the one thing she did tell the truth about there, she's aware what classified requirements are. by the way, she's secretary of state. this is her only server. you would have to be really, really stupid -- again, it's the blender test. do i trust you with a blender in my home to not stick your hand in there and get it all marled up. if you believe hillary clinton's only account did not receive and send classified information in high volumes, then you should not be allowed within 5 feet of a blender in the kitchen. >> it helps explain donald trump's rise, they are sick of the phoniness of politicians and if you're a republican, you think hillary clinton is going to win and you want her to win.

if you're a republican, you've got to be kicking yourself. 70% don't think she's honest. 70% don't think she's honest. she ties almost every republican in a match-up in a swing state. she's not a better politician than last time around. she didn't learn much when she wasn't in campaign politics so she seems beatable and you have republicans wondering whether or not the president is a muslim or not. >> it's unbelievable. >> go ahead, quick. >> in fairness, things that talked about confidential and classified. there's a difference between confidential and classified. even though people associate those words with her think she did anything unpatriotic. did she handle this clumsily -- >> i can't -- >> do you think is that the standard? is david petraeus a patriot? >> the comparison -- is david petraeus, you brought up the patriotic standard, is he a patriot? >> i believe david petraeus is a

patriot but had a very sorry exercise of judgment providing his -- >> who passed more classified information along, david petraeus or hillary clinton out of secured locations? i would be glad to make that mitt romney $10,000 bet if i had $10,000. but i invested in the stock market so maybe i can -- >> do you think the e-mails are more important or do you think her response to the e-mails -- >> her response. if she had come out first day, you know what, i screwed up -- if she said i screwed up. i really am so sorry. i know you all are tired of us doing this stuff and you know what, i'm paranoid, after 25, 30 years of republicans trying to destroy me at every turn when i try to do good things for the country and paranoid and i made a terrible mistake and so sorry, i'm turning these e-mails over and server over --

>> it's a fantastic point. >> they can do what they will. >> she could do that better than you. >> i agree with joe. >> the disagreement is about what was classified, the e-mails she sent to george mitchell and others are blacked out because they are classified. a state department spokesman said it's not a black and white issue. it kind of is right now. >> that's the state department who continues to -- >> read the last part. >> difficult to judge whether it was classified at the time, which is why she shouldn't have her own server, okay? come on. meanwhile, ron fornier tweeted, a true friend or honest aide would tell hillary clinton she's destroying her credibility, just tell the truth. >> that is the problem with hillary clinton all along, she doesn't have a person around her who can tell her no. >> you were just saying that joe about how she should have

responded, exactly gets to why donald trump is so popular at the moment. because people are fed up in this political system of politicians because they are so anxious about raising money and lon gefty of the campaign and so cautious about what they say at every turn, it sounds like legalese and then donald trump says everything and people are drawn to that. it's exactly that paradox. >> coming up, how many time should a working mother take off after giving birth. why the yahoo! ceo is igniting that debate. >> took a year off. >> took it to the max, yeah, he really needed it. >> senator lindsey graham is standing by. >> had to get rid of the baby -- >> he did one of those special workouts and had a mat, bright

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time to take a look at the morning papers, we'll start with the new york times, post francis announced that all catholic priests can absolve women for the sin of abortion if they seek forgiveness during the upcoming holy year of mercy. he wrote, i'm well aware of the pressure that has led women to this decision and i know it is a moral ordeal. i've met so many women who bear in their heart the scar of this agonizing and painful decision. >> and mike, this is what makes this pope so remarkable. not changing policy.

abortion is still a sin in the catholic church. but he keeps talking about forgiveness, whether it's abortion, whether it's other moral dilemmas, did everything. >> everything, he's saying who am i to judge, which is following what jesus said. >> this has been already in its brief papacy, a world changing papacy, geared to elements of the catholic faith that have been sort of not forgotten but put on the wayside for several years and they are mercy, forgiveness and as the pope himself said, who am i to judge? >> sexual abuse scandal, divorce. >> two other pieces, right, like humility and nuance, he's probably the man of the decade in terms of somebody who's actually coming at a tough culture and showing nuance in

these debates in a way that is having a disproportionate effect outside of catholicism. >> you say godnd he goes move on, next story. okay, i'm going to finish this first though, it really is, the spirit, if you look at the gospel, i don't know why he hates god so much. >> that's not a funny joke. >> it is if you know alex. he tells god jokes all the time. i don't even get that, it's rodney dangerfield, doesn't make sense. nobody gets that unless you're over 80. when you look at jesus' ministry, he talks about sets very high bars and people are like well, how can we deal? the standards and jesus explains what may be impossible for you or may be impossible for a camel to get through the eye of the needle but nothing is impossible with god's love. that's what this pope is doing. yes, young people, we have

rules. god has laid down laws. we don't expect you to be perfect but we do expect you to live by the guidelines, if you fail, wefl a forgiving god. that's been forgotten in the church for about 2,000 years. >> it's been the year of the church. south carolina, the church led that community to forgive that young man for what happened in that church. the church has had a great year. >> nbc news.com along with news that she's expecting twin girls this december, yahoo!'s chief executive won't be taking advantage of her company's generous maternity leave policy. the 40-year-old ceo plans to work throughout her pregnancy and take limited time away as she did following the birth of her son in 2012 just months after taking the helm at yahoo!. there's a lot of talk about this, katty, criticism, i would think some support as well. what's your gut when you hear that story? >> i read one thing on this last

night that got to what i feel about it, there's been a lot of criticism and talk about it. if she was a man, nobody would be raising this, right? this would be a complete nonstory, we wouldn't be discussing this. that's a very valid point. she's the ceo of a major company. she's going to deal with this how she needs to deal with it. i don't think if you are a ceo you can expect to take six months maternity leave off or three months maternity leave off and still be running yahoo!. i don't think that's the way it works. you make compromises if you're going to have twins and i think most people understand that. >> i disagree with katty, if i man were having twins, the news would cover it. >> >> he would be having a lot more interesting discussion about this, you're right. >> it's my guess xbl we would have top doctors on the panel. >> this is a bigger segment in a fascinating conversation about women and their choices and ramifications of those choices on other women.

>> i think we want the choices to be there, right? the choices need to be there so we can take them. >> they do. >> that's very important and we've got to that position. now she's choosing not to take advantage of that maternity leave. i don't think that should mean other women shouldn't take advantage of maternity leave. >> exactly. >> we have to have thoz options on the table. >> don't you think her level of ainfluence factors in? >> sure. >> she can hire night nurses from the beginning, 15 of them if she wants. >> her standing at yahoo! has something to do with it too. she's not exactly secure in her position. anybody judging her should mind their own business because she's fighting for her job right now -- >> i'm sorry, this is why this is a bigger segment. i had a situation where i was not making her money and i had a baby and i didn't have maternity leave and went rushing back fighting for my job and had a terrible accident. there's different pressures on different women. it's not an easy conversation but one we should have a lot of.

it takes it to the next level as women make it to the top. >> i don't think you can judge any woman is what i'm saying. >> no. >> every situation is different and so no one should be pointing fingers talking about what type of mother -- >> do we increase the pressure on each other when decisions like that are made? >> if you're running yahoo! i'm sorry, you're not going to be able to take six months or three months off, whether you're a manor a woman. >> coming up on "morning joe", bringing back dr. brene brown who sparked a discussion about fear and redemption. we continue that conversation and why we find out she is one of the top five talks. first lindsey graham is here in the studio, why he says isis loves donald trump. >> okay, that's a tease. >> we shall return. >> we'll be right back. do you like the passaaadd?

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the deal's propositioned on it's a good deal and it's not. it will directly lead, i believe to an arms race in the middle east. >> i believe the fastest way to a genuine arms race in the middle east is not to have this agreement. >> what this deal will do is provide hundreds and billions of dollars to the world's worst state sponsor of terror. >> i heard liz cheney said

hundreds and millions of dollars would flow, that's not accurate. countries will begin to do business and the sanctions will fall apart because people will look at this agreement and say, wait a minute, the united states has been enforcing the sanctions but they are the ones who walked away from the agreement. why should we live by the sanctions? >> boy, that was an hour of power this morning, wasn't it? >> first, you have the cheneys coming on talking about the deal, the iran deal, why it doesn't make sense and mike barnicle throwing a couple of high inside fastballs and john kerry coming on. >> punching back. >> punching back in a big way. those two giants in the foreign policy field framed the debate very well. >> they did. joining us now republican presidential candidate -- >> speaking for the little people. >> senator lindsey graham. how is the campaign feeling? >> it's been fun. it's feeling unusual.

>> it is unusual out there. you and i came together in '94, you've been there a long time. why is it the top three people in all of these republican polls have never held a day of office before? >> i think people are disgusted the way washington works, count me in. i'm up there. what's wrong with us, we can't get things done because every time you try to solve a problem, somebody says you can't do that. here's what i think will happen, 100% of americans should be concerned about one thing, that the next president is ready to be commander in chief because we're at war. i hope over time we'll start realizing the next president needs to straighten out the world that's fallen apart and think about experience when it comes to commander in chief and protecting us all. the one thing i can say about isil, they would kill the lady in kentucky and wedding cake baker and gay couple. they don't see a difference. >> so what about ben carson? we've asked a lot of questions about donald trump.

i don't know a whole lot about ben carson, a lot of republicans like ben carson, is he ready to be commander in chief? >> that will be up to him. he'll have to convince the public -- >> has he convinced you? >> i don't know -- would know -- >> wouldn't be here talking to you. >> why is he doing so well? >> he's so nice and most people are jerks in this business. i mean, at the end of the day, he's conducting himself in a fine fashion but you don't want to take the da and give it the department of defense. he suggested we do that. i discuss you give every veteran a card to go to the doctor or hospital of their choice if the va doesn't serve them well. i don't understand what he would do to destroy isil. what would you do different than president obama. would send larger numbers to iraq, 10,000 rather than 3500, couple aviation battalions and american helicopters flown by american pilots and trainers at

the battalion level and drop bombs on the right people. special forgss to kill isil leadership and syria is the hard one. ten times harder than iraq. >> that sounds good but wouldn't it be easier to make them apply -- i mean, in iraq, what was your question? >> i said those numbers, the component parts of your plan that you just mentioned, you're talking about 100,000 -- >> 10,000 troop. we have 3500. general jack believes 10,000 along the lines i described would turn the tide of bat. syria? how do you fix iraq without syria in. >> i don't see a ground force capable of destroying isil and replacing assad because that window has closed. there's nobody left in syria to train. you've got to get a regional army of arabs and turks, go in on the ground and pull the caliphate up by its roots. we'll have to be part of that force, maybe 10,000 of us.

>> donald trump says billionaires shouldn't be allowed to pay 14% in taxes. do you agree with him? >> i would have ordinary income versus what they have today if you pay down debt with the money. >> what does that mean? >> that means i want to do something like simple son bowles, i would do revenue. >> this question though -- >> i would take the revenue. >> what about billionaires on wall street, this is a more general question about that, should they be paying 14% taxes when small business owners are paying 39%? >> i'm not going to generate more revenue for the government unless we pay debt down with it. i'm not going to go from 14% to 30% whatever the number is unless we have a deal to get us out of debt. if you're looking for a republican to do revenue, count me in. >> harold? >> senator, you've raised the points about syria and iraq -- >> if it was harold, that would

be different. >> raise pointsz about syria and iraq and we see what's happening in with trump. what has trump done to the overall kind of tea party coalition within the party? has he exposed party, made it easier for republicans to expand their reach to build a broader coalition and disaffected democrats? >> all that think obama is a muslim, and that he was born in kenya, whatever bloc that is, that's what he got. and i'm going for the other crowd, the crowd that says, okay, i think he's a christian and born in hawaii but he's a bad president and poor commander in chief. mr. trump's solution to destroying isil is as follows, i'm going to send our guys and gals over there to take oil from iraq and syria to pay our wounded warriors. i don't think that destroys

isil. that destroys our standing in the middle east. isil would love that plan, the biggest recruiting opportunity in the history of isil. it is ill conceived and he's leading. pay attention to what the guy is saying on national security. making no sense. >> the other day, talk about making no sense, governor walker in an attempt to out trump donald trump on immigration sounded as if he were trying to get the endorsement. brick layers union when he said let's build a wall across canada. >> see this is where we need to go on immigration. we need more walls on both borders. >> and do you -- >> he says, he says tongue planted firmly in cheek, bloggers. >> to get through the harbor because there will be a passage

for them. >> do you worry a year from now the republican candidate and many of them trying to get close to donald trump's positions or rhetoric, will tie up the republican party that the chances of winning back the white house would be lessened? >> i think the wall that mr. trump is building is between us and hispanics and our guys are taking the bait. at the end of the day what i'm worried about most, not somebody coming from canada but from syria or iraq with a western passport to attack us. another 9/11 is coming. i agree with dick cheney. we're talking about silly things, building a wall between us and canada. at the end of the day what i'm most worried about is radical islam is on the move over there and coming here and we have no strategy to disrupt them before we get attacked. >> what's lindsey graham's job strategy. >> job strategy? to fix the debt so we'll have money one day to -- deregular late the economy. we all say the same thing, replace obama care with something easier on the economy.

if you had 48 employees, he wouldn't hire more because they get covered by obamacare, go to 30 hours versus 40. i would replace the epa regulation with carbon with something more business friendly and change dodd frank so you can borrow money. but nobody talks about what makes us -- chris christie to his credit talks about adjusting the age of retirement and what he won't do is revenue. here's what i'm trying to telling anybody listening. i understand the revenue part of a simpson boel deal has to be done by republicans. i would close many tax loopholes and take the money to pay down debt and increase rates on hedge funds if you took the revenue to pay down debt and ask democrats to adjust the age of requirement and needs test. $70 trillion short of the money we need to pay medicare and medicaid bills. the challenge, can baby boomers lead us out of the wilderness? there is a baby boomer that will

get democrats and republicans and say we're going to do what reagan and o'neill did, when i was a young man, i needed it, today i could give up some. nobody had the courage to do that. >> thank you very much. >> it's good to see you again, thanks for coming on. >> tomorrow on "morning joe", one of senator graham's rivals, former governor mike huckabee. >> do you want us to elbow him? >> he says you don't need to change social security at all. mike, you're wrong. >> up next this morning, can the dow recover? that's the big question, there are no answers to. from the worst monthly start in nearly seven years we'll go live to the new york stock exchange next on "morning joe." what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service?

exactly. that's what pushes us to deliver smarter simpler faster sleeker earlier fresher harder farther quicker and yeah, even on sundays. what's next? we'll show you. what did iran's supreme leader get in the nuclear deal?

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44 past the hour, time for business before the bell with sarah eisen. what is moving the markets today? >> good morning, we're seeing futures pointing to a higher open after another brutal session on wall street where the major averages lost 3% and dow closed down 470 points. we're in the middle of yet another tu multiuous week. it was the first day of trading for september which is a weak month for the stock market. this was the worst start to a september in 13 years. we had our third worse day of the week yesterday. the previous two worst days of 2015 happened in last two weeks. it gives you a sense of what kind of pain we're in the middle of the. in the united states, the concerns in the markets, overseas what's happening in china, in the u.s. the news continues to come in pretty decent. we just got a read on private

sector hiring, the adp report is out ahead of the big jobs report on friday and showed that companies added 190,000 jobs in the month of august. it wasn't as good as some economists were looking for, about 200,000 but pointed to steady job growth and that's been a continuing theme. >> what's interesting, if you look back over the past week, you start to think, well, if china gets pounded the night before, it's going to be a bad day on wall street. that happened for a couple of days but then on the third day it happened, it's almost as if wall street said, wait a second, the u.s. economy is not completely tied to china, we're okay and people went in trying to get bargains. it looks like that might happen again today. china has a terrible night again and yet the futures pointing slightly up. >> there's a few things here and investors are trying to figure out the linkages between the u.s. economy and chinese economy. the chinese stock market is not the chinese economy. only 10% of chinese people

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we had a great conversation with dr. brene brown, about rising strong. >> it wasn't long enough. >> this is a book about what it takes to get back up. it's actually written on the cover, we wanted to continue the conversation, dr. brown, because we barely scratched the surface. we were talking about how we even see what you're talking about in candidates out there, people who really put themselves out there because they risk failure every day, almost every second of every day. >> i started my research in six months before 9/11 and i have watched over the last couple of years, fear run rough shod and

it's decree atded a culture of scarcity. the hall mark of a scarcity culture, what am i supposed to be terrorized about and whose fault is it? i think politicians who can tap into this sense that we're so tired of being afraid, we're so tired of waking up in the morning and being afraid about our jobs and about shootings and about every single thing in the paper, that if you can tap into that feeling that all of us are carrying right now of i want to be brave with my life, i'm tired of this, you can really -- i wouldn't underestimate that ferver. >> the flipside of that in terms of what you're talking about in the political world is that a lot of politicians, perhaps too many politicians, campaign on fear, be afraid of immigrants,

be afraid of isis, be afraid of losing your job. that palpable fear mongering does attract a lot of people to the candidate. >> because what i think is happening, it's a one-two punch. the one punch is here what's i'm going to tell you to be afraid of and i'm going to use all kinds of schemes to get you fearful. but then i'm going to come in with the second knockout punch, which is how i'm going to solve that and overly simplistic ways that are mostly bs because if they worked, they would be done. i can tell you this for sure, if you can keep people afraid, you can do anything you want with it. >> that's power. it's power. >> there's something here that i found interesting, we have to choose carefully on who we share our stories of struggle with. >> that stuck out to me. >> yeah, because simple equation, vulnerability minus boundaries is not vulnerability.

a great example, i'm working with silicon valley ceos and a guy comes up to me after my talk and says, what you're saying is i should stand in front of the vces and investors and say the truth and be honest, i'm in over my head, we're bleeding money and i don't know what to do next? and i was like, well, not if you want another round of funding, i would not do that. here's the thing, but if you had money invested in this company, wouldn't you hope he's saying that to someone somewhere? i would hope to god he's siting across from someone saying i'm in over my head and bleeding money. we have to be aware of our roles and what roles we play. vulnerability is not oversharing. you can be boundaried with what you share and be transparent and authentic person. the fact we've set that up as binary speaks more to what's going on in our culture right now than i think than the nature of vulnerability.

again, vulnerability, has a simple definition, it is uncertainty risk and emotional exposure. am i willing to show up when i cannot control the outcome in a job, in my writing, in a unforgiving hyper critical world. >> i told my oldest son, the proudest i was when he tried out for a basketball team in eighth grade and he didn't make it and no one thought he should have made it and i said to him afterwards, that's the best thing ufl you've ever done, having the guts to fail. >> here's the thing, people say to me, vulnerability feels dangerous. it feels really -- i'm not sure about it. and i agree it feels dangerous but here's what's more dangerous, getting to the end of our lives and having to ask what if i would have shown up? what -- >> the regret. i should have done this, i could have tried that. >> i could have said yes. there's an amazing quote that

says, failure is an imperfect word because the minute we start to learn from it, it ceases to be a failure. >> it's the best thing that ever happened to you. >> this is further proof that baseball is the greatest game ever and i'll tell you why, if you fail seven out of ten times, you go to the hall of fame. >> that's true. >> you need to take that one. >> baseball is an incredible -- i've been asked to step down from the sports metaphors but baseball is an incredible metaphor for life, it is. >> dr. brene brown, we could talk all day. thanks. the book is "rising strong." great to see you. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."

i'm bill karins and the heat continues pretty much from coast to coast. you can go from salt lake city to boston with high temperatures 90 plus degrees. we will see a few thunderstorms around minneapolis, down to des moines. overall, a dry forecast and also pretty windy in the more than rockies where we continue to watch dangerous fire weather. milk cow here with an important announcement about how yoplait original now has 25% less of the sugar. less sugar?? yes. but don't worry it still tastes good. oh that is great news, milk cow. enjoy! i will. mmmmmmmm! it tastes good! i know. yoplait! nbut your dell 2-in-1 laptoped gives you the spunk for an unsanctioned selfie.

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welcome back, let's talk about what rewe learned today. >> dick cheney, john kerry, the list goes on, barnicle? >> by making peanut butter and sandwiches for john kerry and cheneys and getting them together for -- going to have a good time. >> it is fascinating, this debate is so split. but we're really excited to have the cheneys and john kerry talk about two sides of a deal that people will be debating for years to come. thanks for watching as always

and we're always grateful for your patience. stick around now, "the rundown" starts right ahead. >> developing right now, a massive manhunt is entering a second day in northern illinois for three suspects in the killing of a veteran police officer. 52-year-old charles joseph gliniewicz set to retire this month was shot to death during a foot chase. the mayor of fox lake says the community has lost a dear friend. >> not only did we lose a family member but a dear friend. many residents knew him as gi joe and remember him as someone deeply committed to fox lake and fellow officers. >> let's go right to nbc's john yang. good morning. what's the latest? >> reporter: good morning, jose, i've got to add mitd there is a