sometimes that allows you or forces you to go in more interesting directions. >> all right. alex gibney, documentary on steve jobs, excellent work. thank you very much. >> thanks so much. that's all for this evening. the rachel maddow show with much more of andrea mitchell's interview with hillary clinton starts right now. since hillary clinton started running for president, overall this time, with all that has happened so far in the presidential race she has done two -- precisely two -- national sit-down interviews. she'll occasionally do a press gaggle or short press conference here and there, she'll occasionally take a shouted question. but when it comes to taking, though, a long haul series of questions from one reporter with follow-ups and everything, an in-depth interview, that is the unicorn with hen's teeth jumping over a double rainbow of a blue moon of this campaign. that's impossible to get. but andrea mitchell just got

that and we have the whole remarkable interview tonight. it includes secretary clinton's most comprehensive comments on the e-mail controversy. it includes secretary clinton moving beyond saying yes to the iran deal to the point where she starts taking credit for the work it took to get that deal done, owning it making it a hillary clinton deal as well as a barack obama deal. she takes a shot at donald trump's campaign slogan. she also stands up against donald trump on behalf of her staffer houma abedin, but also on behalf of kareem abdul-jabbar and in the first portion of the interview we'll show you now, she gives a forceful defense of one of the thing she is gets criticized for a lot which is that she's too careful. she's too safe. andrea mitchell asks secretary clinton here what she thinks about the crowds that are flocking to candidates like bernie sanders on the left and donald trump on the right. what she thinks about the praise for joe biden's authenticity andrea asks secretary clinton if that's because, in contrast, she's too lawyerly.

watch. >> looking at the campaign now, you see huge crowds for bernie sanders and for donald trump and people talking about joe biden having an opening if he decides to make a difficult choice on an emotional level, which we understand. they talk about how authentic these candidates are. does it hurt you when people say you're too lawyerly? you parse your words, you're not authentic, you're not connecting? >> well, that's just not my experience out campaigning. i feel very, very good about where we are. we've built a terrific organization in the early states and we're expanding into those states that will be after iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, nevada. the level of support, the intensity of support that i'm experiencing as i speak with people and talking about issues that i know are on their minds, i want to be the president who deals with those big problems that are in the headlines but

also those problems that keep families up at night that's why i started out listening. because i think you can come with your own ideas and wave your arms and give a speech but at the end of the day, are you connecting with and really hearing what people are either saying to you or wishing that you would say to them? so on everything from mental health issues to substance abuse to college affordability to the continuing struggles that families face despite the fact that we've got a recovery and unemployment is down, people aren't feeling it. i am very excited and very energized by the campaign that i'm running. after labor day you move more toward the laying out of your plans and moving toward debates and having the exchanges that you expect in a campaign. that's the next stage and i'm looking forward to that. >> are there real difference,

big differences between you and joe biden on domestic or foreign policy? >> you know, i'm not going to address my of tany of the polit questions around my friend joe biden. he has to make a really difficult decision. you can see him struggling with it and i just wish the best for him and his family. if he continues as vice president, he will continue to serve with great distinction. if he gets into this race there will be plenty of time to get into the debate and the back and forth but i think everybody should give him the space and respect to make what is a very difficult choice for him and his family. >> you'll be giving a big speech on iran next week. at the same time donald trump and ted cruz will be holding a rally on capitol hill against the iran deal. what do you say to your friends, many in the jewish community who think this is a terrible deal. >> well, that's why i'm giving a speech next wednesday because involved in the preliminary

work. i helped to put together the sanctions that pushed iran to the is negotiating table. i was the person who explored the early efforts to see whether there could be a negotiation. so that i believe the agreement is not perfect. it's by no means some kind of validation of iran, you know, my view is don't trust and verify. but it is a very important step and it is better than the alternative so on wednesday i will be outlining in great detail both why i support the agreement but equally importantly what i would do as president to enforce it, to hold iran accountable and to make clear that no options were off the table, that they can never, ever, have a nuclear weapon. so this is not only about the agreement and what looks to be its approval by the congress,

it's about what comes next and i think the american people are going to want a president who supports diplomacy even with those who are our adversaries to try to reach the kind of understandings that we have but who will also get up everyday and enforce that agreement strongly and vigilantly and i think that's a far better approach than some of the words you will hear on the same day that i deliver my speech from those who apparently don't believe in diplomacy, don't believe in the hard work of putting together international coalitions, don't belief in trying to get the best deal you can and then don't believe that it needs to be enforced the way that i would enforce it. >> and donald trump, among other things that he's done, has really personally attacked one of your closest aides, houma abedin. what was your feeling about that? >> well, he's attack sod many people, including my close aide

and myself and many other people. you know, i can a that. that's just par if the course. i do regret he is going after so many people many of them by name, from great basketball players to people who express different opinions from him. i think it's an unfortunate development in american politics that his campaign is all about who he's against, whether it's immigrants or women broadcasters or aides of other candidates. he is the candidate of being against the vision i have that for america is now we come together. how we work together. how we set big goals again, whether it's combatting climate change and getting moving on clean energy or making college affordable. i have specific plans about what i think would be good for the american people and good for us

as a nation. i think we are a great country and i think we are great because of our values, because of our history, because of the way we've ever come adversity, how we keep moving toward a more perfect union. that's what i'm running on. so he can run his own campaign, he can, unfortunately, do what he's doing which i think is a bad development for our american political system. >> do you think he had a point of raising the question whether it was appropriate to her to be taking a state department salary and also be paid by an outside company closely associated with your husband by you? >> well, i was not directly involved in that but everything she did was approved under the rules as they exist bid the state department so again he's great at innuendo and conspiracy theories and really defaming people. that's not what i want to do in my campaign and that's not how

i'm going to conduct myself. i also believe the president of the united states does have to be careful about what he or she says. i do know sometimes people say well i'm careful about what i say. that's because for more than 20 years i've seen the importance of the president of the united states, the leader not only of our nation but of the world having to send messages that will be received by all kinds of people. loose talk, threat, insult, they have consequences. so i'm going to conduct myself as i believe is appropriate for someone seeking the highest office in our country. >> front running democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton today asked once but looping back twice to this issue of her speaking carefully. she's keying off what she described as republican candidates donald trump's innuendo and conspiracy theories and defaming people. she says over the course 206

years one of the thing she is has learned about the presidency is that loose talk, threat, insults, they have consequences. and she also defended kareem abdul-jabbar who donald trump is attacking for having criticized mr. trump. kareem abdul-jabbar was here to talk about that fight. hillary clinton is now defending kareem abdul-jabbar's honor against donald trump and the whole thing gives me the best reason i've ever had to show you one of the all time greatest photographs ever taken of andrea mitchell with kareem abdul-jabbar. i will direct your attention to the fact that in this picture andrea mitchell is wearing heels. we'll be right back. >> i do regret he is going after so many people, many of them by name. from great basketball players to people who express different opinions from him.

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in february last year, the bill clinton presidential library released some clinton administration papers to the public for the first time. the trove of stuff they released included this memo from 1995 which was prepared for then first lady hillary clinton and it was about the notable qualities of the press corps that was going to be traveling with the first lady on her big trip to china. including someone named andrea mitchell from nbc news about whom the first lady was warned in 1995 "she is a very aggressive and a very good reporter." hillary clinton warned about andrea mitchell's aggression 20 years ago today. the warning still stands. >> why did you wipe the server clean even after you knew that a congressional committee or more committees were investigating? you've said it was because it was convenient. clearly from the e-mails released it wasn't convenient. are you sorry? why do that?

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was both a rare publicly emotional moment for mrs. clinton, tafls the start of a comeback for her that brought that race down to the wire in 2008. andrea mitchell today asked hillary clinton a pretty uncomfortable question about that time then and the campaign she's in right now. >> i think back to 2008 in your opinion the coffee shop in new hampshire and people really saw a different side of you. perhaps you feet that it might be slipping away after what happened in iowa. do you think back about that and do you worry this should be happening again? that what happened with your e-mail has created so much controversy that you could be losing this opportunity a second time? >> well, i don't feel that. i feel i have questions to answer which i intend to do at every turn with you and others about the whole e-mail issue and

to keep saying the same thing and then also to keep making the case that i'm making for the presidency, what i stand for, what i've always stood for, whatly fight for and how hard i will work to make sure that not just my granddaughter but every child, every grand child in america has the same chance to live up to his or her god-given potential. i know we're living at a time when there's a lot of skepticism about politics, even cynicism. people are angry, frustrated, they feel somehow that their lives are slipping away and they want some answers. sometimes those answers are bombastic and very ideological but i can understand why people are looking for some way out of what they view as their own problems, particularly their economic problems. i mean, we're beginning to see the fruits of the recovery but

paychecks aren't growing. people are not feeling that theorizing with rising corporate pay and raising corporate profits. that's just wrong and i have said that for many years and even in my campaign last time i was very clear against some of the worst abuses that i thought were unfortunately bad for our economy and not fair to the american people. i'm talking about the same things, i will continue to talk about the same things and i trust the american people. >> secretary of state hillary clinton today rejecting andrea mitchell's suggestion that her campaign is in trouble because of the e-mail issue which brings us to the e-mail issue. that's ahead. stay with us. >> there was so much work to be done. we had so many problems around the world. i didn't really stop and think what kind of e-mail system will there be.

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one of the ways in which presidential candidate hillary clinton made news in this interview today with andrea mitchell is that she went further than she's gone before not just in saying she's in favor of the iran deal, in this interview with andrea, secretary clinton now started taking some credit for some of the diplomatic work that made that deal possible. she is embracing the iran deal. and there is still drama about that deal. the republican-led congress, of course, wants to scrap it -- they will not be able to -- but from among these five democrats

and maybe also republican susan collins of maine, from among these five or six remaining senators president obama still needs three more votes. if he wants to avoid having to use his veto power to save that deal. so seeing hillary clinton really embrace that deal and make it her own today that is news, that's a pretty important new development in that ongoing drama around the iran deal. and now next crisis. what would hillary clinton do about the desperate human columns of refugees? mostly out of syria in europe right now, what would hillary clinton do to stop that terrible crisis and to fix it? >> as someone who has such a record in foreign affairs, what do you think, what do you feel when you see these thousands and thousands of migrant, men, women and children caught between two worlds unable to get to germany

and austria willing to receive them with open arms. should the united states raise its quotas and permit more people from syria to come in? >> well, the pictures, the stories, we've been watching this terrible assault on the syrian people now for years, it's heartbreaking and i think the entire world has to come together, it should not be just one or two countries or not just europe and the united states we should do our part as should the europeans, but this is a broader global crisis. we now have more refugees than we've had in many years, i think since the second world war and as we've seen tragically, people are literally dying to escape the conflict in syria. i think the that the larger middle east, asia, everybody should step up and say we have to help these people and i would

hope that under the aegis of the united nations led by the security council and certainly by the united states which has been such a generous nation in the past we would begin to try to find ways to help people get to safety in other lands. however, that does not solve the problem and the problem is one that the entire world now sees doesn't just affect the syrian people, it affects all of us. that's what i've been saying for years, that's why i advocated for a more robust response when assad began his on slaugt on the syrian people and i think we have got to come to grips with the fact that this is not going away and the millions of people who are fleeing need safe places to be but the conflict needs to be brought under control. >> was this a failure of the president's policy? >> well, it's the world's policies, it's not only the united states. i advocated for, as i say, a more robust policy but sitting

here i can't say that that would have on its own made a difference because this had to be an international effort and of course, we know the russians were standing in the way and i negotiated the agreement in june of 2012 in geneva which the russians signed off on and then immediately began to renege. so we know that this is not just a problem that the united states can solve. we have to do what i did with the iranian sanctions. i had to get the russians on board, i had to get the chinese on board. it was not easy. but that's the kind of intensive diplomacy that will be required in order to stop the flow of refugees and to try to bring some peace and security back to the region. >> i had to get the russians on board, i had to get the chinese on board, that's the kind of intensive diplomacy that will be required. hillary clinton speaking with andrea mitchell about the crisis of refugees in europe. this very rare sit down interview with secretary clinton today hitting multiple foreign

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have you had a conversation with a hillary clinton supporter lately you know about the anxiety, there's a palpable worry among her most ardent fans that manifest itself in this question -- but what about the e-mails? today secretary clinton had the longest and most substantive exchange ever about her private e-mail account she used at state. andrea mitchell grilled her on it relentlessly and there are two simultaneous ways to watch her response to that grilling. one, is hillary clinton proving her case that there's no substance to the concerns about her private e-mail server at state. two is hillary clinton soothing the anxiety among her base? is she convincing her supporters she can weather this as a political storm?

watch. >> you said recently that using your personal e-mail while you were secretary of state was not the best choice and that you take responsibility. are you sorry? >> well, i certainly wish that i had made a different choice and i know why the american people have questions about it and i want to make sure i answer those questions starting with the fact that my personal e-mail use was fully above board, it was allowed by the state department as they have confirmed. but in retrospect it certainly would have been better, i take responsibility, i should have had two accounts, one for personal and one for work related and i've been as transparent as i could asking that all 55,000 pages be released to the public, turning over my server, looking for opportunities to testify before congress, i've offered for nearly a year finally the committee will give me a chance

to testify in public word the end of october and i'm going answer these questions and continue to talk about what's important to the people that i meet about this presidential campaign because it's critical we renew the basic bargain of america so that if you work hard, do your part you can get ahead and pay for college and have equal pay for equal work and the other important issues on people's minds. >> but this has created what your campaign manager has said are some head winds, a lot of noise out there so let's get through some of it. first of all, are you sorry? do you want to apologize to the american people for the choice you made? >> well, it wasn't the best choice. and i certainly have said that. i will continue to say that as i've also said many times. it was allowed and it was fully above board, the people in the government knew that i was using a personal account. but it would have been better if i had two separate accounts to begin with and certainly i'm

doing all i can now to try to be as transparent about what i did have on my work-related e-mails and they will be coming out, i wish it were faster. it's frustrating that's taking a while but there's a process that has to be followed. >> since 1995, the state department foreign affairs manual said that all e-mails, all records had to be preserved in. 2005, the manual was updated to say "sensitive but unclassified information should not be transmitted through personal e-mail accounts." eight months after you took office the us code of federal regulations was updated to say "agencies that allow employees to send official electronic e-mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that federal records sent or received on such existing systems are preserved by the appropriate agency recording system. so there were a lot of advisories, no law, direct, but a lot of advisories including

white house guidance against using personal e-mail. and especially using personal e-mail exclusively. just now you said people in the government knew you used personal e-mail. the recent e-mails indicated that the help desk at the state department didn't know. they couldn't recognize your e-mail address. >> well, the people i was e-mailing to on the dot-gov system knew and they would respond to me on my personal e-mail but i do think it's a fair question. it was allowed and i chose to do it, as others who had been in high official positions had as well. and i believed -- and it's tu turned out to be very much confirmed, that the vast majority of everything that i was sending to a dot-gov, the official government account, would be captured and i have gone the extra step and gone

through all of the e-mails that i had from those four years in the state department to make sure that anything, even being overly inclusive, that could possibly be work related was made available to the state department. >> a few quick points. there was an inspector general's report last march that said in 2011 only 61,000 e-mails at the state department out of more than a billion were preserved because the archival system for five years was so bad and people didn't know how to use it, people weren't trained properly. so things weren't captured at the receiving end. >> well, that's not the case with my e-mails. i know our government -- and this is an issue we must address -- is not up to speed technically and there's a huge amount of information. i can just speak about the state department but the entire government as we have seen with the white house and every other agency is struggling to try to keep up with the onslaught of e-mails. >> but does it concern you that

people don't trust your answers on this? i mean, there was a quinnipiac -- i know this poll was everyone, republicans and democrats, but the first words that came to mind when asked about you were "liar, untrustworthy, cooked." how does that make you feel? >> well, it certainly doesn't make me feel good. but i am very confident that by the time this campaign has run its source people will know that what i've been saying is accurate and i will have a chance to do that in front of the entire world with the congressional committee hearing they may disagree, as i now disagree with the choice that i made but the facts i have that put forth have remained the same. but more importantly the american people will now that they can trust me when it comes to standing up for them and fighting for them and being their advocate and their champion and i think that's what this election when it's all said and done has to be about. who has the vision for america,

who will be there every single day trying to renew the basic bargain that americans should expect from our country. who can get results, who has the tenacity and the skill to do that and i'm very comfonfident t the american people believe i do and will support me for president. >> a couple other quick points. why did you wipe the server clean even after you knew a congressional committee or more committees were investigating and why the leaked -- the 30,000 or so e-mails were deemed personal and how did you decide what to delete and not to dreet. >> i'm glad you asked that, andrea, because i think it's one of the questions that people have. in the fall, i think it was october of last year the state department sent a letter to previous secretaries of state asking for help with their record keeping in part because of the technical problems that

they knew they had to deal with and they asked that we, all of us, go through our e-mails to determine what was work-related and to provide that for them. the letter came to my lawyers. i asked my lawyers to please do that and it took weeks but they went through every single -- >> so the lawyers went through it. >> yes. every single e-mail. and they were overly inclusive. if they thought anything was connected, in fact, so incluesive the state department has already told us they're going to return 1200 e-mails because they were totally personal. at the end of that process -- again, following the request of the state department -- they had to print out all those e-mails that were work related. it ended up being 55,000 pages. those were delivered to the state department. they kept a thumb drive there was delivered to or kept by my lawyers under lock and key. that left all the personal

e-mails and i was asked, do you need to keep your personal e-mails and i said no, i don't, you can delete those and they were. but that doesn't change what we were asked to do, how carefully we did it and how even the state department said we sent them things that they don't believe they should have gotten. >> do you know what a lot of people are asking? why? why have just a personal system? you've said it was because it was convenient. clearly from the e-mails that were released it wasn't convenient. there were a lot of confusing thing, breakdown, outages. why do that? were you trying to keep reporters or investigating committees away? what was the defensive mode? >> well, i had a personal e-mail when i was in the senate, as the vast majority of senators do. it was very convenient, i did my personal business on that. >> but you're a member of the national security cabinet. >> that's why i'm so careful.

and has been confirmed repeatedly by the inspectors general over and over i do not send or receive any material marked classified. we dealt with classified material on a totally different system. i dealt with in the person, on secure phone lines. i had the traveling team, the technical team that went with me and they set up tents so that when i was traveling anything that was classified would be protected from prying eyes. i take classified material very, very seriously and we followed all the rules on classified material. now what happens when you ask or when a freedom of information request asks that information be made public all the agencies get to weigh in and what you're hearing from other agencies is it wasn't classified at the time but now we think it should be. and that is not uncommon. in fact, if i had just a government account, that was on

the unclassified system, they would go through the same process. so, again, it's confusing and that's why i'm trying to do a better job of explaining it to the american people. >> you have said that colin powell did the same thing. he actually had a personal e-mail and a state.gov. i don't think there's any precedent for someone just relying on a personal system at your level of government. >> i can't speak for him. that's been portrayed differently depending on how it's considered but this was fully above board, people knew i was using a personal e-mail. i did it for convenience. i sent e-mails i thought were work related to people's dot-gov accounts. the vast majority were captured by the system. and now we've made sure that

everything that could be considered work-related is in the system of the state department. >> did anyone in your inner circle say "this isn't such a good idea, let's not do this"? >> you know, i was not thinking a lot when i got in. there was so much work to be done. we had so many problems around the world. i didn't really stop and think what kind of e-mail system will there be. >> does it raise judgment questions? >> well, i don't think so. i think the facts are pretty clear that we had a lot of hard work, hard choices to make and i'm very proud of the work dedid and the people i worked with. i think we really served our country well and now the state department has everything that they could have. so at the end of the day i am sorry that this has been confusing to people and has raised a lot of questions but there are answers to all these questions and i will continue to provide those answers and those answers have been confirmed and

affirmed by the state department and by other government officials and eventually i'll get to testify in public and i'm sure it will be a long and gruelling time there but all the questions will be answered and i take responsibility and it wasn't the best choice. >> it was not the best choice. hillary clinton after she did this interview, that have interview came out today, hillary clinton got thrown all this shade in the press that she didn't properly apologize. if you watch that whole exchange between her and andrea and you think hillary clinton is not expressing regret about the e-mail system, you are watching that discussion through very thick glasses. so thick they could possibly be warped. more coming up, including andrea mitchell here live. stay with us.

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and i am a certified arborist for pg&e.ughes i oversee the patrolling of trees near power lines and roots near pipes and underground infrastructure. at pg&e wherever we work, we work hard to protect the environment. getting the job done safely so we can keep the lights on for everybody. because i live here i have a deeper connection to the community. and i want to see the community grow and thrive.

every year we work with cities and schools to plant trees in our communities. the environment is there for my kids and future generations. together, we're building a better california. is. so this clip i'm about to show you is amazing. it happened 20 years ago tomorrow. it's then health and human services secretary donna shalala physically fighting her way past a blockade set up by chinese security forces. note the reporter waiting for her on the other side of the figh fight. >> stop pushing! stop pushing! stop pushing. >> are you all right? >> i'm fine. >> what happened when you tried to get through the gate?

>> they were lined up with their arms locked and they were only letting a handful of people through but more importantly people were pushing them back. >> andrea mitchell and secretary shalala in beijing 20 years ago tomorrow for super controversial address by then first lady hillary clinton on the topic of women's rights. they were there even though lots of members of the u.s. government and the chinese government did not want them to be there. 20th anniversary of that beijing speech is tomorrow. >> we've got the president of china coming later this month for a state visit and 20 years ago 20, years ago tomorrow, you were leading the delegation and gave a speech that accused china of human rights abuses implicitly. you said that women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights. and i'm wondering whether you

feel 20 years later that women have any more rights, have made progress in china and indeed around the world. >> you know, andrea, it feels like it was yesterday. you were there in beijing. >> we were just kids. >> and i was very humbled and proud at the same time to represent the united states and make that speech and to set forth a platform for action. 20 years later i would say this. women and girls have made progress in health and in education. in health we have done a lot to improve women's health, particularly lower uma te-- maternal mortality. in education girls are attending at the same rate as boys but the gap comes back in secondary education so we have work to do. but if you look at economic rights and participation, political rights and participation, security and conflict, we have a lot to do.

so it's a glass half filled kind of scenario and as a senator, as secretary of state secretary of state, i argued strongly for putting women's rights at the center of foreign policy because when women have rights you are more likely to have a middle class. you are more likely to have more stable families. you are more likely to have the opportunity for democracy to take hold and grow. so this, for me, was not only a moral issue, a humanitarian issue, a rights and equality issue, it was a security and strategic issue. i'm going to continue to make that case. there has been progress in china. they have a long way to go, as so many other countries do, but even in advanced economies like our own we don't have equal pay for equal work. the minimum wage is two-thirds of the people on minimum wage are women. that's not a way to get yourself

out of poverty. we still have our own challenges. clearly my running for president is a way of sending a message that we have unfinished business in america and we have an opportunity to lift up everyone, women, men, girls and boys at the same time. >> i didn't know this at the time, but you kept that speech very secret because you knew the state department and the white house national security advisers did not want you to deliver that strong of a message. never before had a first lady taken the world stage and shaken things up. did you get a lot of blow back? did your husband or others respond? >> no. because before i went there was a lot of hand wringing and concern in the congress as well as in the administration. >> i remember it well. >> but i made it clear i was going to go. we had an excellent dell gachlgs

it was bipartisan in those days, both republicans and democrats and madeleine albright, then our ambassador at the u.n. was the official head of the delegation. i was the honorary chair of it. i made it clear that even though it was 20 years ago, it was a critical issue about america's values and our interest and future security. i made the case and i went and i was very pleased after the speech some of the naysayers thanked me for doing it. >> i love the part about the naysayers. hillary clinton sounding donald trumpesque there. the people call me and tell me they are sorry. very trumpesque of her in the best possible way. one more thing in which andrea mitchell catches her off guard so much she does this. that's next. stay with us. can you spot the difference? no?

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early bird or night owl? >> unfortunately both. i'd like to be one or the other. >> work outof choice. >> swimming but that is not always available to treadmill, weight with and walking. >> the food you crave most? >> probably chocolate. >> i'm with you on that. >> what are you binge watching? >> right now, we were so late in watching "house of cards" we are nearly done with the season. >> text or e-mail? i'm not sure that is appropriate. we are asking you. >> e-mail. >> one with thing you can not live without? >> sleep. don't get enough of it. always want more of it. >> thank you again. >> thanks. >> andrea mitchell has covered clinton, hillary and clinton, bill for more than two decades

now and that record includes this landmark, aggressive far-reaching interview with the front running democratic presidential candidate who's usually notoriously unavailable for comment. andrea mitchell is joining us here now. congratulations on this. >> thank you, rachel. i can take a deep breath now, can't i. >> i don't want you to interview me. how did you get her to talk to you? this is the longest interview she's done since she's been running. the third sit-down interview she's done in the whole cycle. >> there are a lot of parts to it. perhaps because they realized they needed to reset. the campaign needed to do a serious interview on the subject. the one they did a couple of weeks back with cnn was before a lot of other things had happened. they had been answering questions particular my on the campaign trail. it was not a serious response. they tried to joke about it with

snapchat. they tried to be aggressive and defensive. what did i wipe the server clean with a cloth. you can't joke about this stuff. once the fbi is involved and then once 24 hours ago we learned that one of her former aides who set up the server is going to tell the committee next week he's taking the fifth. you can't joke about this stuff. it's going to be around for a while. try to be as transparent as you can. >> you pressed her so relentlessly on the e-mail. she has never had to answer so many followup questions. did you come away with a new understanding of the scope of the problem and how she is handling it? >> i have come away with the fact that on the subject of why and how she got rid of those 30,000 e-mails she had the lawyers do it. that was interesting. >> that was new. >> in talking to intelligence and state department officials,

as recently as this week, intensively. there was no such thing as a classified portable blackberry or device. if you are an assistant secretary of state and traveling to a foreign capital and speaking to a foreign leader, you have to go to an embassy, a secret place. even if it weren't on the private system there are all sorts of dplichs in how information is transmitted. people are communicating back by elliptically saying i was with so and so and all of the bad guys know who it is and the chinese and russians are hacking them any way. there there is that. but white house officials are upis set because they are told by the chief of staff and national security adviser on a weekly basis, what are you doing on your private, official system. don't mix the two. the fact she only had private is what they find inexcuse canable. >> andrea mitchell,

congratulations on the scoop today. you are a very good interviewer. only you could have got this interview. you made a ton of news today. thanks. >> thank you. >> that does it for us tonight. we will see you again next week. until then, both andrea mitchell and i are sending you to prison. msnbc takes you behind the walls of america's most notorious prisons. into a world of chaos and danger. now, the scenes you've never seen -- "lockup raw." inside every prison there's one question that both inmates and correctional officers must ask themselves. knowing the right answer could mean the difference between life and death. the question, who can i trust? >> you can get close to somebody but you can't trust that person because that person might be the one