this sunday, former secretary of state colin powell. his first interview since the iran deal. where does he stand in the agreement, on race in america and on election 2016? plus, our brand new nbc news/maris polls from two states that count the most, iowa and new hampshire. who's up? who's down? and which of these candidates may now have a reason to worry. also, jeb bush takes on trump. >> there's one candidate in the republican party that is preying on people's angst and fears, that has a philosophy that is not about the goodness and greatness of the america people. >> will it work? >> so far everybody that has attacked me has gone down the tubes.

and the big interview with hillary clinton about her e-mail mess. >> i didn't really stop and think what kind of e-mail system will there be. finally, will this heartbreaking picture change how the world deals with syria? joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning are -- tom brokaw of nbc news, pulitzer prize winning historian, doris kearns goodwin, and radio talk show host, hugh hewitt. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good morning. you might have noticed something just different now about the opening of the show. you heard it right, we have a new announcer. appropriately, that was the voice of a tv president. dennis haybert who played david palmer in "24." now to fascinating news out of iowa and new hampshire. this week we learned that congress can't stop the iran

nuclear deal. that's not stopping donald trump and ted cruz from attending a rally this week here in washington that will attempt to showcase opposition to the deal. the trump/cruz duet is sim top mattic of how polaraized foreign policy has become. 70% of the democrats approved the deal with republicans only at 15%. this is a polarized item these days. i can think of no better people to discuss this than retired general collin powell. general powell, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. good to be back. >> appearance number 33. let's start right with iran. is this a good deal? >> i think this is a good deal. i've studied very carefully the outline of the deal and what's in the deal and i've also very carefully looked at opposition of the deal. after my judgment after balancing those two sets of information is -- it's a pretty

good deal. i know there are objections to it, but here's why i think it is a good deal. one of the great concerns the opposition has is that we're leaving open a lane for the iranians to go back to creating a nuclear weapon in 10 or 15 years, but we are forgetting the reality they have been on the super highway for the last ten years to create a nuclear weapon or nuclear weapons program with no speed limit. and in the last ten years they have gone from 136 centrifuges up to something like 19,000 centrifuges. this agreement will bring them down to 5,000 centrifuges, all of these will be under iaea supervision. and i think this is a good outcome. the other thing i have noticed is that they had a stockpile of something in the neighborhood of 12,000 kilograms of uranium. this deal will bring it down to 300 kilograms. i mean, kilograms. it's a remarkable reduction and i'm amazed they would do this but they have done it. and with respect to the plutonium effort, the actor in

iraq which is now starting to operate, the reactor is going to be shut down except for minor parts of it and concrete will be poured into the reactor core vessel. and so these are remarkable changes. and so we have stopped this highway race that they were going down. and i think that's very, very important. now, will they comply with it? will they actually do all this? well, they get nothing until they show compliance. and that's the important part of the arrangement. >> well, the other criticism of this deal has to deal with behavior changes. why didn't we ask for -- it wasn't enough to just try to slow them down on their nuclear front or stop their ability to get a nuclear weapon, it is, should we also have put in this deal having them stop the funding of hamas and hezbollah, stop the backing of assad in syria. what do you say to that? >> those are all important objectives and they should not be set aside because of this deal. we have to keep pushing on the bad behavior that the iranians show constantly throughout the world. but this deal specifically had

to do with the thing most concerning to the world, the most dangerous to the world, and that was their nuclear program which could produce a weapon in a very short period of time. that has been thrown in to a detour. it isn't going to happen. and in 10 or 15 years we don't know what the future will hold, but it's not clear that 10 or 15 years from now they will want to start it up again or the material that has been under iaea supervision for the 10 or 15-year period will be available or suitable for such an increase. so that's pretty good. the real issue i think that it came down to for the opposition is how do you verify it. i am reminded by what my former boss ronald reagan would say, when he talked to the receive yets -- trust but verify. with respect to the iranians, it is don't ever trust, never trust and always verify. and i think a vigorous verification regime has been put in place for the iaea and other news organizations, especially listening to secretary of energy

moniz, he really knows this stuff. he is a nuclear physicist and he and the intelligence community are confident they can verify what's happening inside of iran. >> we can talk some of this here in the united states politics, but there are allies in the gulf and of course israel. are probably the most opposed to this deal as well and they in some ways have been generating the opposition here in the united states when it comes to this deal. what do you say to their concerns and to the folks in saudi arabia and israel? >> i think this deal -- which, by the way, king salman did give his approval this week here with the president. but if this will unfold, they will see they are more secure by derailing this iranian nuclear program. and we also have to keep in mind that we are in this with a number of other countries. all of the ones that have worked with us -- china, russia,

germany, france, britain -- they have already agreed to it. the british foreign secretary was already in iran last week with a trade delegation. and so even if we were to kill this deal, which is not going to happen, it's going to take effect anyway because all the other countries in it with us are going to move forward. the u.n. is going to move forward. and a hundred nations have already agreed to the deal thinking it's a good deal. and they are all going to be moving forward. we are going to be standing on the sidelines. >> you were involved in the administration that negotiated a nuclear deal that tried to stop north korea from getting a nuclear weapon. that didn't work. why will this deal not look like the north korean deal in five years? >> well, the north korean deal was flawed since 1994's original agreement all the way through. after a while my view of north korea was, you know, they really can never really use a nuclear weapon without committing suicide. i think the same thing is true with iran. if i was with the iranians just like i have said to the north koreans on a number of occasions, you do realize that

anybody thinking you are going to use one of these, you are committing suicide because your capital and your society will be destroyed the next day. if i was talking to the iranians at a senior level i would say, what do you think you're getting wi this investment that you have made in this all of these years? you would think that you can actually use these without having the entire world condemn you the next day for being the only nation to have used nuclear weapons since 45? everybody will be against you. secondly, you won't accomplish any strategic purpose. you'll have killed tens of thousands of people, destroyed part of a city and the next day you will see the repercussions in terms of what will be done to you. and so this is something that is a waste of your money, a waste of your time, and i think that you ought to enter this deal with a full intention of complying with the outline of the deal, with what is required of you to do and cooperate fully with the inspectors. now, people will say, now, you can't trust them. i don't trust them. i say we have a deal, let's see how they implement the deal. if they don't implement it, bail out.

none of our options are going. none of our options are going. but this is something we aught to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms under u to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms undeg to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms undeh to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms undet to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms unde to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms unde to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms unde to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms unde to pursue and try to make it happen under the terms unde >> let me move to isi connected migrant crisis that's faced in europe and the syrian refugee crisis. and i guess i will quote jeb bush. jeb bush said, in order to defeat isis, you have to get rid of assad in syria and deal with the syria problem. number one, is he right and what is your view on how to deal with isis? >> isis is not just an enemy waiting to be defeated in syria and in iraq and elsewhere. it is a movement. it is not something that's going top lend itself to immediate military power to take it out. it's a movement and will have to be defeated by the people who live in the area where is the movement exists. so air power can just do so much. but air power is also destroying a lot of homes and towns and villages and other things.

and so i think especially in iraq, it's going to take the iraqi army believing in its government, and the government believing in its army. and is giving the army what it needs to be successful. they have to not only defeat iraq on the ground but hold the ground, they have to stay there or else it falls apart. with respect to syria, i think that situation right now is so complex, so confusing, between the government and damascus which is still there but seems to be weakening, between what the russians might or might not be doing at the moment. that is a concern to secretary kerry. and who would replace assad? who would replace any of the other groups that are fighting for power? whether it is isis or anyone else, i think syria has every potential of falling into the kind of disrepair that we have seen in libya and elsewhere. >> i want to play for you a compendium of presidential candidates on iraq. obviously with jeb bush's presents in the race, it's brought up the iraq war again.

it's amazing to hear all the republican candidates almost repudiate the war. take a listen. >> i would never have committed ourselves to iraq. >> the intelligence was clearly wrong. what we know about the intelligence, no, i would not have authorized the war in iraq. zblr the iraq war was a mistake. it was based on false intelligence. >> i would have not engaged, i would not ve gone into iraq. >> where are you on this? >> if we had known the intelligence was wrong, we would not have gone into iraq. but the intelligence community, all 16 agencies, assured us it was right. my speech at the u.n. was based on that information. but guess what? 376 members of congress, if i have my number correctly, voted on the basis of that intelligence that it was something that the president could do. we tried to avoid it. i asked the president if we could take it to the united nations and he agreed. we took the case to the united nations. all assad had to do to get out of jail at the time was to comply with the requirements of the united nations. he chose not to.

and the president decided based on the intelligence that he had and what he knew about the overall situation that military force was necessary. we quickly took baghdad. my own personal belief is that after taking baghdad, we made terrible strategic mistakes. disbanding of the iraqi army, which we were counting on. the pentagon asked us to count on that army to provide the security. and so i think the execution of the operation was flawed, badly flawed. but the president made a decision as commander in chief based on the information intelligence he had. >> there was a lot of people that wondered if dealing with the iraq war would not create a bigger mess overall and believe it or not of all people, a former secretary of defense in the mid-'90s, i want to play for you a clip of him, who later became vice president. here's what he said about why the first george bush didn't take out saddam. >> that's a very volatile part of the world. if you take down the central government in iraq, you can easily see pieces of iraq fly

off, part of it, the syrians would like to hand to the west. part of the eastern the iranians would like to claim. fought over it for eight years. in the north you have the kurds. the kurds spin lose and join with the kurds in turkey and then you threaten the integrity of turkey. it's a quagmire. >> 21 years ago there was dick cheney talking about the turks and the kurds, talking about the quagmire in the middle east, talking about the problems with the border between syria and iraq. here we are and did the iraq war create isis? >> the joint chief of staff at the time in the second bush administration, my view was, remember, if you break this, you're going to own it. it will not be a simple solution. >> did you call it the pottery barn rule? >> no, someone else did but i'll accept it. it was a news man, as a matter of fact. but the fact of the matter is, we did it right in the first gulf war.

we had to listen to arguments years afterwards about why did you go to baghdad? then the 2003 war came along and you saw why you wanted to go to baghdad. we had a clear commission clearly defined and put the resources against that mission. we took out the iraqi army in kuwait. restored the government, that's what we intended to do and that's what mr. cheney was talking about. you have seen the impressions of his words at the time that you can create chaos. once you pull out the top of a government, unless there's a structure under it to give security and structure to the society, you can expect a mess. we saw that totally in libya. perfect example. in egypt we thought it was going to be good. we got rid of mubarak. now we have another general in charge of the country after a detour with the muslim brotherhood. so be very, very careful when you try to impose your sysm or your thinking on a society that's been around for thousands of years around it is not really like us. >> i want to move to domestic issues here. this is a tumultuous year in race relations.

and obviously probably the most poignant moment was happened in charleston. i want to play for you a clip from the president and what he said during the memorial service in charleston. >> maybe we now realize the way racial bias can infect us even when weapon don't realize it. so that we are guarding against, not just racial slurs, but we're also guarding against the sudden impulse to call johnny back for a job interview but not jamaal. >> is that where we are today? that we are still -- we still got a ways to go? >> we do have a ways to go, but let's not overlook how far we've come. 50 years ago nobody could have dreamed that a black president would be making the statement just made or that a black guy could be secretary of state, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, national security advisor. so we've made great progress. but in that progress a lot of people have been left behind. we should have no lusions about the fact there are still

people in this country to judge you by the color of your skin. i faced it in the course of my career, but i've always tried to make the problem that of the racist and not of me. and just keep doing my job to the best of my ability. >> what do you make of the black lives maerpt matter movement? >> that's a way of capturing the essence of the property we have where blacks have been killed b? >> that's a way of capturing the essence of the property we have where blacks have been killed by police officers in a way that doesn't seem appropriate. not that killing is appropriate in any circumstance. so i don't mind the slogan and i don't mind the movement because it draws attention to the problem. but the greater problem is violence in our society. black on black violence is worse than white policemen on black violence. and when you see what's happening in every one of our cities every weekend, washington, d.c. right here, you've got to stt asking yourself, is there something we can do to reduce the violence? is it gun control? or more importantly, is it teaching our children a different way? is it giving people more opportunities to have jobs and to have stable communities and stable schools and schools that

work? how do we restore the families in our country? not just black families that are not as intact as they used to be. you'll see the same thing happening in hispanic families and white families. >> two more questions, do you still see a dark vein of intolerance inside the republican party today? >> yes. people are saying, why are you calling us racist? i'm not calling the party racist. i'm just saying there are some in the party who practice a level of intolerance that is not good for the party and not consistent with american values. >> your game gets name gets inv this e-mail controversy. once and for all, can you explain what you did with your e-mails as secretary? >> you can read my chapter in my latest book. you can buy it on amazon. >> plug. >> the point is i arrived at the state with a disaster there and had to fix it. i had to bring the state into the 21st century and the way of doing that was giving them new

computers that gave them access to the whole world. then in order to make sure i changed the brainware of the department, not just software and hardware, i started to use e-mail. i had two machines on my desk. i had a secure state department machine which i used to secure material. and i had a laptopo use for e-mail. and i would e-mail relatives, friends, but i would also e-mail in the department. but it was mostly housekeeping stuff. what's the status of this paper? what is going on here? it was my own classified system but i had a classified system also on my desk. >> do you believe this is a serious issue for secretary clinton or not? >> i can't answer that. we now have two igs working on it, we have the fbi working on it. mrs. clinton and some of her associates will be testifying or be going before inquiries with the congress and i think it is best for me just to talk about what i know and not what occurred under secretary clinton's jurisdiction. >> general powell, i would love to talk to you for longer but we're going to stop there. thank you for coming on "meet the press." you're 33rd appearance in case

you're counting. >> thank you. when we come back, we'll turn to the race for the white house in our brand-new nbc news/maris polls out of iowa and new hampshire. the republican race -- well, here's how the british news magazine "the economist" decided to look at the race right now. yes, that's trump's hair being placed on top of the white house. we'll be right back. understands the life behind it. those whhave served our nation. have earned the very bt service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. ♪ [ female announcer ] everything kids touch at school sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products.

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in explaining away bad poll numbers, it's getting pretty late to use the excuse that it's early.

labor day kicks off a new phase in the 2016 race and we already t a taste of it this week. it's going to get a lot more contentious. we have brand-new nubbc news/mas polls out of iowa and new hampshire. and for now we'll look at the republican side of the race. in iowa two candidates who never held office are blowing away the field. donald trump leads at 29%. ben carson close behind at 22%. combined, they're over 50%. no other candidates rates double digits. in fact, no other candidate is above 6%. look how things have changed since the last time we polled in july, six weeks ago. trump is up 12 points. carson tripled his number. meanwhile, jeb bush has been cut in half and the one-time leader scott walker, his campaign appears to be on the verge of imploding if not careful. once more as we look at the rest of the field, many candidates counting on a strong performance in iowa are barely on the board right now. we'll quickly move to new hampshire where trump is also dominating, 28% of the vote. second place is john kasich at 12%. the power of paid television ads on that one.

carson again in double digits at 11% ahead of jeb bush and carly fiorina. since last polling in july, trump was ahead but lower, he's gained seven points. kasich and carson doubled their support. bush has faded, fiorina is growing. and paul, cruz, christie and walker and rubio round out the top ten. and scott walker went down from 12% in new hampshire to 4% right now. he was down from 19% to 15%. walker's free-fall is probably one of the polls bigger stories. let me bring in the panel, hugh hewitt, i'm going to start with you because you are here. we earlied you up. you and mr. trump had an interesting back-and-forth, and we're going to get to that in a minute, but your reaction to the poll numbers. carson and trump, two unelectives. >> the second inning was good to carson and trump, the first inning was good to scott walker. there are seven more innings. we were talking baseball

in the green room beforehand, and i'm going to use it throughout. i talked advisers in walker's campaign, they are not worried. i think he will continue to grow and we'll see what happens with donald trump. general dr. ben i think will continue to grow. donald trump is unique. >> he is unique. i want to play, speaking of trump, i'm curious of your take on this. i got an interesting trump versus bush. bush decided to engage trump and decided he has to do it and started this week. here it is. >> this guy can't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. he's very low energy. >> this is not a guy who is a conservative. and using his own words is not a mischaracterization. [ speaking spanish ] >> when you get right down to it, we're a nation that speaks english. and i think while we're in this nation, we should be speaking english.

>> i think donald trump is trying to insult his way to the presidency and it's not going to work. >> i watched him this morning on television. and it's a little bit sad. don't forget, he was supposed to win. >> i'm sure as hell when he attacks me personally or disparages my family, you're damn right i'm going to fight back. i would hope you would, too. >> this is not the campaign jeb bush wanted to run. >> no, he wanted to run a campaign where he would be a sunny figure, where he wouldn't have to take out the general election by saying things in the primary that were going to hurt him. and he has to do this, however. i think what trump did by saying he was weak energy made people feel, ah, unless he's fighting, this is today's world. unless you're fighting and unless you're blustery or saying things, you're weak. the question is, is it going to be enough to say he's not conservative enough. trump supporters seem to be not concerned about where he is on conservative or where his past was, they like his attitude and stance. but sometimes when i listen to this i wonder, maybe we shouldn't have ever gotten into

these primaries. 1912, the first primary ever. >> you want to get rid of the primary! >> listen. the first primary ever. "new york times" had an editorial because taft and teddy both running for the nomination were calling each other fat heads, pig heads. this is so embarrassing. we hope the first presidential primary is the last ever. people are blushing over what is happening. >> by the way, they both were overweight at the time. tom, i'm curious, let me play the exchange heard around the world. the gh hewitt pop quiz of donald trump. instead of making hugh defend it, i'm curious your take on it. let me play it. >> are you familiar with general solamani? >> yes. but go ahead, give me a little -- go ahead. tell me. >> he runs the quds forces. >> yes, okay, right. and i think the kurds, by the way, have been horribly mistreated by us. >> no, not the kurds, the quds forcers, the iranian

revolutionary guards forces, the bad guys. >> right. >> i thought you said kurds, kurds. >> that was scott walker and marco rubio, tom. then you would say their campaign is over. >> i thought it was an appropriate question. my own personal feeling is, however, it is not the primary issue of donald trump. we remember eight years ago when george bush was running and he couldn't name the prime minister of india. he was questioned by a boston reporter. i think we've got to get to the end of bombast with donald trump. he's obviously rubbed a very raw nerve out there. there's a river guide on the american west that describes difficult clients has half-cocked or in the ticked-off position. he doesn't say ticked off but another phrase. but that's the constituency of donald trump. a lot of people say, i don't want to deal with conventional politicians. this guy is saying all the things. but at some point he's got to tell us if he's going to take down obamacare and replace it with something that's a lot

cheaper, a lot more effective. come on, give me details on that. if you are going to move 11 million migrants back to their home country, how much is that going to cost? and the point of that is if someone came to him with a real estate deal that was only about, this is what i can do and no numbers attached to it, he would throw them out of the office. at some point both the press and voters have to say, show me the money, donald. >> show me details. very quickly, joy, react to this column. the conservative movement flirtation with the non-establishment candidates is according to dave weigel, might be rooted in hillary clinton's weakness. here's what he writes this weekend in the "washington post." in 2005 right after the defeat of the kerry-edwards ticket, beltway wisdom dictated that the party needed a red state governor to win the white house. and then? then the 2006 elections happened. gone very quickly was the sense that the party needed to settle on an electable candidates. republicans may be living through their own version of this. weaker clinton looks, the more republican voters can basically shop around. >> i'm not so sure just in my

conversations with people who say that they like donald trump, they don't really bring up hillary clinton. they more often bring up a general frustration with the poll-tested scripted nature of politi politics. and i think that the fact that donald trump is giving them political incorrectness is very appealing to white working class voters who are overall frustrated with the political system, frustrated their party of choice, the republican party, hasn't been able to deliver on the things they promised. the republican party used the energy and enthusiasm of the tea party movement to get in office. and once in office, they say, well, we really can't do that. and i think that now you have people -- and i think we also are reaping the rewards of an overconfidence in the quote/unquote businessmen to run things. they assume trump will figure it out. they love his messaging in terms of his style, but i don't think supporters are paying attention to the substance. >> we'll pause here and get to the democratic side of things in a moment. we have new polling on that side. here's the bottom line question you'll find out -- whatever

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to do homework when you're at home. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. democrats traditionally have democrats traditionally have been able to count on the support of organized labor, but as we enjoy this labor day weekend, membership in labor unions remain in decline. in 1983 they accounted for 20.1% of american workers. by 2014 it was down to 11.1%. earlier this week i sat down with the current president of with the afl-cio and asked him what it would take for the labor movement to work hard for hillary clinton.

his answer -- it's all about whether she stands or takes a stand against the transpacific partnership, or what's known as tpp. take a listen. >> so here's the difference. i think if she doesn't take a position on tpp, then you can say she's looking for our vote. if she does take a position on tpp, she's looking for our support. the difference is, if you get my vote, i come out on election day and pull the lever. if you got my support, i get up at 7:00 in the morning. i stuff 200 envelopes. i make several calls. i go knock on a few doors and i get my neighbors all excited about voting for her as well. that's what is at stake for her. >> i also gave me a take on the possibility of the vice president getting into the race. he is going to be with joe biden tomorrow. >> joe biden has been a champion for working people all this life. he's a blue-collar guy and is liked by the membership. he's liked by americans and he'd make a good president. hillary would make a good president.

the number of people out there would make good presidents. the question becomes, are they willing to articulate a message that really says to our members that workers out there, i'm not only going to talk about changing the rules of the economy, i'm going to fight to make them a reality. and a candidate that can convinces our members, working america, that they're going to fight to change the rules of this economy to make it better for working people, that's going to be a groundswell and the decision will be made pretty quickly. >> the rest of the interview including trumka's take on trump can be found at meetthepressnbc.com. don't look now, bernie sanders is starting to take on hillary clinton directly. as hillary's ad campaign in iowa and new hampshire help to ward off of the bad news? bernie sanders thinks she's rattled. >> don't tell anybody, i think she's nervous. don't tell anybody.

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just wanted to touch base. we came to manage over $800 billion in assets, through face time when you really need it. it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because it gives me... zero heartburn! prilosec otc. the number 1 doctor-recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 9 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. you want to understand why hillary clinton felt she had to sit down for a 30-minute nationally televised interview with my colleague, andrea mitchell, and answer question after question about the e-mail controversy. all you need to do is look at our new polling in iowa and new hampshire. over the last month the clinton campaign has been poring money into the campaigns in the early states, over $2 million. and look at her numbers, while clinton leads bernie sanders in iowa, 38% to 37%. that's actually down from a 29-point lead in july before she

went up with paid advertising. and now take a look at this. sanders is now ahead by 11 points in new hampshire. that is not a typo. we have him up 49%/38%. just two months ago before the hillary clinton campaign started running vv ad schtv adk, clinto sanders by 13 points. tom brokaw, this -- you know, you like to say the unforeseen. bernie sanders is the definition of the unforeseen. >> well, my wife reminded me the other day when everybody was saying that hillary was a lock six months ago. a lot of the women were saying it's over, she's going to win the nomination and finally have a woman as president. i always invoke the ufo theory. something to remember, however, is the caveat in all of this. iowa is not a go to the polls and vote state. it's a caucus state that has to be extremely organized. a lot of people forget that george w. bush, 41, beat ronald reagan in effectively what was his home state of iowa, even though the polls would have shown it the other way.

we are talking about a big universe here. we are also talking about iowa. she's made some huge mistakes in my judgment. and that wonderful interview that andrea initiated, and typically of andrea, she went right after the issue. when she said, "i didn't think about the effect of e-mail, i was stunned. i mean, we were deep into the digital age at that point. she's secretary of state. >> do you believe her? >> well, i don't -- >> she didn't think about it? >> i believe she was presumptuous is what i believe. that's what a lot of people think, is that she's presumptuous, that if i believe it, it is the way of doing things. where were the security people at the state department saying, madam secretary, you have to have a secure server over here? you can have something off to the left as colin powell said he did. but at this point to suggest the secretary of state, as much as she was around, didn't think about the impact or possibility of hacking just astonishes me. and i think it takes away from her big argument, i've been

there, done that, i know what i'm doing. >> and now doris, i'm not going to put them up for now, people can get on the website, she has an electability problem. joe biden is running stronger against trump and jeb. donald trump leads clinton in one of those polls and biden leads trump. this is an electability problem now. >> somebody said the inevitable became eviatable. she said in time my statements will be accurate. she's lost time because of the e-mail controversy. and the questions that are now rolling around integrity are the most important attributes. you lose time and integrity, i think she has to handle this get, get on it even harder than she has. and i think the problem is when you see sanders, there's an army veteran who said, i'm for him because i feel a sense of movement for the first time since i've been back from the army and you don't feel that movement of girls an women toward hillary that i thought was going to carry her through.

>> joy, it goes to what you said in the previous part -- authenticity. sanders has it and clinton doesn't. >> i think particularly white liberals were looking for a movement post barack obama. >> the new hampshire poll if you look at it, gary hart is beating walter mondale. the wealthy white liberals are for sanders, the poor working-class folks are for hillary. >> right. these are two states overwhelmingly white, so we are talking about a universe of more white liberals. however, one caveat on the biden numbers, who doesn't love joe biden, but this is joe biden unadulterated by media scrutiny. so in the abstract, yes, biden is doing well in these polls. i think it is interesting that he comes in and he takes 10% each from sanders, it seems, and hillary. that he comes in and sort of a pox on both houses. >> it didn't change the structure of the race. >> no, but he's an interesting addition. i think hillary needs energy. the feeling of movement that is around the sanders moment isn't there with hillary and at least

not now and not with women. i think they are campaign is trying to zero in on trying to get that going with the women. but maybe having somebody like joe biden in the race will really force her to sort of make the campaign more kinetic is maybe what she needs. >> very quickly, there's a theory saying, some clinton people say, as bad as her poll numbers are, there's a bunch of republicans that wish they had her bad poll numbers. >> that's true. i will point out, whenever your senior aide invoekkes the fifth amendment, that's a bad week. and in the andrea mitchell interview, the other bad news is the refugee crisis. she said she would have advocated for a more robust response when assad started to kill people. she's trying to get ahead of her next problem, which is 4 million syrians on the merge and libyans on the march. >> it's the most important overlooked piece of andrea's interview. what she said about syria and trying to break from the president, speaking of the syrian crisis, we're going to hit on that next.

we'll change subjects when we come back. hugh was very gracious in giving you was the smooth transition there. we'll get a closer look at the growing crisis in europe and the question, should the u.s. do more to start taking in syrian refugees as well? you guys think of the test drive? i love the jetta. but what about a deal? terry, stop! it's quite alright... you know what? we want to make a deal with you. we're twins, so could you give us two for the price of one? come on, give us a deal. look at how old i am. do you come here often? he works here, terry! you work here, right? yes... ok let's get to the point. we're going to take the deal. the volkswagen model year end sales event ends on labor day. so hurry in to your local volkswagen dealer today. ♪ [ female announcer ] everything kids touch at school sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. you handle life; clorox handles the germs.

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welcome back. there have been jubilant scenes this weekend as thousands of refugees arrived in germany and austria after 00 hungary eased restrictions on their travel. but there's no sign of the crisis abating as tens of

thousands more attempt to make the journey. over 360,000 migrants have crossed the mediterranean to reach europe so far this year. and just over half of those are fleeing syria. the syrian refugees have endured a dangerous journey that started on the syrian/turkish border most traveling by boat from turkey to greece, then through macedonia, serbia and hungary with budapest's main train station a choke point. richard engel is at the train station in booudapest where thousands are still hoping to continue their journey to the austrian border. a warning, this is a disturbing report. >> reporter: forced to pay attention by powerful images, the boy who washed up on a beach while trying to get to greece. the train in hungary blocked by police.

migrants dragged off to camps. families at budapest's grand railway station and under it where conditions were so squalid they decided to walk out of the country until hungary got too embarrassed and decided to send buses to pick them up. but getting less attention is the cause of this crisis. these people are overwhelmingly from iraq and afghanistan where u.s. military interventions failed to bring stability. and from syria where a lack of international action allowed a civil war to rage on. they are escaping failed states and failed policies. it's been four years since the assad government started bombing its own people. isis has now carved out its own state. if the u.s.-led war on isis were working, people wouldn't be going to such great lengths to leave and the u.s. is barely taking in any. >> the united states has always taken the position that as the leader of the world community,

as the wealthiest country in the world, as an immigrant country ourselves, we have to respond to refugee disasters wherever they occur in the world. >> reporter: european officials perhaps troubled by their own dark past of trains, camps and unwanted people, have decided the solution is to redistribute the migrants among their nations. but the migrants don't want to go to poorer european countries. and there are simply too many of them draining the world's war zones and spreading them around europe won't work. >> when you have 11 million syrian homeless, half the population of syria, when you have these tragedies in iraq, syria, lebanon, yemen, libya, we've got to wake up and accept the fact that the united states has a self interest in trying to end these humanitarian disasters. we also have a moral responsibility to act as the leading democratic country in the world. >> reporter: and the crisis is already causing the rise of the right wing.

this is a global crisis that washington morally and strategically can't ignore. >> and richard, i guess you pointed to this in your piece, but ultimately this is about a policy that isn't working here. and already this morning the headline in "the new york times" is about the united states warning russia about their support of assad. obviously, the more russia supports assad, the longer this civil war lasts. >> reporter: it's really about a variety of crises, syria the biggest one of them, but also the unresolved situation in iraq, libya, the entire middle east is in a state of collapse. and what we're seeing now is just hopelessness from the people. people have decided that things are so bad in syria and other parts of the muslim world that they are not going to get better and have no choice but to move on. and certainly actions by russians to support the assad

regime just convinces people even more that there is not any light at the end of the tunnel and they have to do whatever it takes to find a better place. and many people that germany and scandinavia are the only parts in the world where they can start new lives. >> richard engel, thank you very much. to discuss the response to the crisis, i'm joined by the president and ceo of the international rescue charity, david miliband. welcome to "meet the press." let me ask you a basic question in today's "new york times." it is simply, who failed the 3-year-old child that was found dead on the shores there. who failed him? >> i think there have been three levels of failure. obviously, he was barrel-bombed out of his own city. first of all, damascus and then ka ba kobani, so this starts with president to assad. secondly, there's a chronic failure of the international powers including the u.s., but

strategically like russia, saudi arabia and iran to come to grips with the nature of the syrian civil war so that it's mess as it sized not just into a syrian civil war but one that engulfs parts of iraq as well. the clear culprit is clearly the european union whose fumbling feeble response over the last few months and years has led to the appalls scenes that you've seen on tv screens and newspapers around the world. >> we have short-term issues, we have long-term issues. short-term, what are we going to do with the refugees right now? can europe alone handle them all? >> short-term, you're right in your report to say that the choke-point has been hungary. but the eye of the storm is greece. i've spoken this morning to our field director there on the key island where people are transitioning from turkey to get onto the european union. and frankly you've got 25,000 people stuck on the island. they are arriving at 3,000 to 4,000 a day. and the immediate crisis is to

provide water, sanitation and transportation off the island and three of the neighboring islands there. if you're asking should the united states be playing a role alongside the european union, my answer would be a strong yes. and there are two elements for that. first of all, one of the reasons people are fleeing the middle east is that the neighboring countries to syria, that means lebanon and close allies like jordan and creeking under the strain of millions of refugees. and america has historically been the home for refugees in the settlement, but over the four years of the war the u.s. has only taken 1,400 syrian refugees in total. >> is there a number you would like to see the united states pledge to take? some lawmakers here in the united states say the number should be as high as 65,000 by the end of next year. >> well, 65,000 has a clear logic to it and the national rescue committee has resettled new americans for the last 80 years since we were. founded by albert einstein here

when he came in 1933. he have been clear that for the u.s. to maintain its leadership position in refugee settlement, it should take about 45% or 50% of the u.n. recommended number. and the u.n. said by the end of 2016, 130,000 syrians need to be resettled around the world. that's why the 65,000 figure is the one to continue to show the leadership that has decayed. over the moment, the leadership position is being overtaken by germany because they have clearly said 800,000 people are going to register for asylum or claim refugee status in germany this year. it's time for the u.s. to have the debate about how to continue its leadership role. >> speaking of leadership or lack thereof, the gulf states have not taken in a single refugee. saudi arabia, the uae and some of the other countries. by the way, they are the ones that have been the most encouraging in the united states to get involved on the side against assad in syria. what do they owe the world? >> that's a great point.

there are about 500,000 syrians in saudi arabia and 130,000 syrians in the united arab emirates. but you are right to say they are often as workers rather than refugees. it is certainly the case that with the new distribution of economic power around the world, it is vital that countries, including in the gulf, play their role in this humanitarian tragedy. it is also important to recognize the gulf has a critical role when it comes to actually getting to the roots of this political impasse that has gotten worse and worse over four years. any solution has to involve russia and the u.s., yes, but also the gulf states. david miliband, you have a big job ahead of you in what you're working on. godspeed on that work, sir. >> thank you very much. it's very good to be on. a quick reminder, don't forget to set your dvr in case you can't watch us live because we are always here, just a click or two away on your remote, your ipad or however you watch us on

demand. we'll be back in a moment with our end game segment. when it comes to issuing marriage licenses in same sex couples, should a kentucky clerk follow her conscience or the law? what do you think? >> announcer: stay tuned for "end game," brought to you by boeing. diabetes, steady is exciting.

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>> announcer: time now for "meet the press" "end game" brought to you by boeing. where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. it's been a dramatic week in kentucky. we had a shutdown between a clerk, not wanting to issue marriage licenses. she ends up being taken away to jail. presidential candidates all weighed in. but doris, i was struck by something else. this is the only place in the country that we've had this. meaning that i think a lot of people thought we would be more clerks that wouldn't do this. >> that's the most important thing to realize.

we get so focused on one person in one county, but the supreme court spoke on a very controversial issue and all of the country, in all the counties, people have gone issuing marriage licenses. and that's the important thing to understand, that the social movement created an acceptance. maybe this will have a copy-cat thing going on after this, but at this point in time it is accepted by the country, and that's pretty extraordinary. >> i think acceptance of same-sex marriage is so outrunning the opposition, that its's game over, quite honestly. this is an exception down there. i was thinking earlier whether she was opposed to interracial marriage and said, that's the law of the land. she took the oath of office, i presume, she swore to uphold the laws of the land. that meant that she's entitled to her opinion and faith and what she wants to do, then she ought not be the county clerk. >> if i may quickly say, the attempts for her and some people to equate her with the civil rights movement and dr. king and rosa parks is horrendous and i

think should really be spoken up against. >> hugh, i want to give you a chance to respond to donald trump. because i think you are a second rate. i don't think you're a third rate. that's just not fair. >> well, i have interviewed everyone on this panel at length. donald trump, if i can use a baseball analogy, when you interview donald trump it is like facing bill lee or daylord p perry. he is difficult. he is the best interview in america. i've seen every show with him. >> look at you admitting it. >> and if i was unfair, i will take criticism. >> you seem a little defensive. you wrote an op-ed and -- >> i don't like "gotcha" questions. but i think in the green room, general powell said, he became the trump of iran and had to pull him back. he said, can i quote you and said, yes, you may. so it matters, but nevertheless, journalists have to be open to criticism and i am.

we'll see if others agree. it was an old irish saying, if everyone says you're drunk you better sit down. thus far only a couple of people thought i was wobbly. >> stay standing. >> all right. fair enough. one final thought, today marks one year since i got the privilege of being the custodian of this chair, of this long-running program, all of us here at "meet the press" are grateful that you've let us into your homes each sunday morning. it is the greatest professional privilege of my life and i know, i hope you're going to want to stay with us because this is going to be the most fascinating yooer in americ eyear in americ. every four years i say this, tom, you may say this but here we are again, this is crazier than ever. >> there are no rules and they have all changed, by the way. >> and by the way, the rules are going to change again in a couple years. >> i have never seen anything like it. >> thank you, all. that's all for today. we'll be back next week and every sunday because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

a rampaging elephant. >> i probably should have died that die. >> a run-away cadillac. >> i missed it though. >> and a terrifying earthquake. >> i'm thinking i don't know if i'm going to get to the bottom of this stairwell. >> reporter: on-the-job nightmares caught on camera. some end with a crash. others are blown away. and sometimes broadcast on live tv. >> i didn't know what to do. >> but, hey, it's no use crying over spilled wine bottles. 9:00 to 5:00ers who weathered the storm. >> we're having a great time, as you can see. >> and live to