breaking news out of kentucky where a county clerk kim davis was released from jail and moments ago addressed a massive crowd gathered outside to support her. take a listen. >> oh i love you all so very much. i just want to give god the glory -- [ applause ] -- you are a strong people. just keep on pressing. don't let down. because he is here. [ applause ] -- worthy. i love you guys. thank you so much. >> davis was released today after the judge lifted the contempt order against her but ordered her not to interfere are her deputies issues marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

this is moments after her release answering questions from reporters. >> kim davis cannot and will not violate her conscience. >> she'll do her job and won't violate her conscience. >> also at today's rally was republican presidential candidate mike huckabee who traveled to kentucky to defend davis's cause. >> i am willing to spend the next eight years in the white house leading this country. but i want you to know i'm willing to spend the next eight years in jail. but i'm not willing to spend on who believe they can take our freedom and consciousness away. >> kim davis is set to go back to work with week. and let's talk about why kim davis was released. what happens next to her?

>> yeah that is a great question. because her release came as a surprise to a lot of people. dal today --. here is what actually happened. the judge had read a report from the plaintiffs in this case who said yes they were able to obtain their marriage licenses from the deputy clerks on friday. well the judge said based on that the court was satisfied her office is fulfilling its obligation to issue licenses to all eligible couples and he ordered her release. in that he also ordered that she not interfere with the issuance of licenses given out by her deputy clerks. and here is where things are going to be very interesting to watch. she is expected to return to work later this week. no specific day given quite yet. and her attorney says her

conscious will not allow her to continue those licenses to be issued under her name and authority. nbc news obtained would have been those licenses and her name actually doesn't appear on it. it is the deputy clerk's name and signature on it. kim davis' attorney say her name was removed by the deputy clerk. she does not believe they had the authority to do so. she believes the only one who does in this case is the governor or the legislature. so now her legal team is arguing that those licenses that were issued on friday aren't valid. well the county attorney says they are. so this is another one of these issues that we are going to see play out just because kim davis has been released does not mean ethical, legal, moral battle here in kentucky is over. >> we're going to be speaking to one of her attorneys in a moment. but first talk to us about the scene behind you. it seems part political rally with the presidential candidate

mike huckabee. and we heard a lot of the messaging as well coming out from kim davis as well as her lawyer. but what is the mood there like among the ordinary people? they are celebrating. but talk to us more about it. >> well people thought they were coming for a rally with mike huckabee as the featured speaker. ted cruz also announced this morning he was coming as well. people were already very excited for this. when i came in early this morning people already had their lawn chairs out here in anticipation trying to get a good view of the stage. and then it went from that level of excitement around kim davis supporters to this news that she was going to be released. and people were excited. they were jubilant when she came out. they cheered for her. you saw her overcome by this emotion for a lot of people in this crowd kim davis has become this symbolic soldier in the perceived war against christian values, this soldier in the war against same-sex marriage. it would be unfair though to say this community is solely pro kim davis. we've talked to people who are

for same-sex marriage or who are against it personally but feel the supreme court has ruled and it is time for her to do her job. >> sarah doll. >> the judge ordered davis not to interfere in anyway with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses to eligible couples. is your client prepared to do this? >> thanks for having me, ayman. and that is a great question. we don't know yet know what this order means for kim davis fully wlasmt we do know is that kim davis has never granted her authority for any marriage licensing to be issued while she was in jail. she remained the clerk and kentucky law says marriage licenses must be issued under her authority.

her objection has been that licenses could not be issued on her authority or under her name. now what we have is deputies issuing licenses really on judge bunning's authority, on the federal district court judge's authority and on his order. so we don't know that those licenses are valid. in fact we believe that they are not because they weren't issued by kim davis's authority. what she will do going forward when she gets back to the office -- we still haven't figured that out exactly. we haven't even had a chance to speak with kim as her entire legal team. only some team members have been with her and it's been very busy. but we will understand what kim's wishes and desires are very soon. and then she'll proceed accordingly. i think what she can say for sure is she won't violate her conscience. what that looks like in the office we don't know. >> and that's what i want to pick on. is specifically another one of

today's comments that struck out to me is one of the attorneys saying she would not and could not violate her conscience. what does that mean in the context of today's order from the judge? if you can spell that out in terms of what it means for her not to violate her conscience? >> right well i think kim davis has demonstrated that she's willing to pay whatever consequence comes from observing her conscience. she spent six days in jail because she was not willing to voluntarily have marriage licenses under her authority and name come out of her office. what that means going forward is something that as a legal team have to read judge bunnings order carefully and talk with kim davis about her desires and what her conscience is dictating to her and then we'll decide how to move forward. but that will be kim's addition. >> and could that possibly mean that she's prepared to go back to jail? >> i think all i can say for sure is kim davis would rather go to jail than violate her

conscience. whether there is a space for her to observe her conscience within what the judge ordered today remains to be seen. >> and would kim davis ever consider resigning before she issued a marriage license to a same-sex couple? >> well so far kim davis hasn't entertained the idea of resigning. she was elected by the people of the county. and has done a good job for them and wants to keep doing a good job for them. right now what she's asking for is a reasonable accommodation, which the governor of kentucky has the power to give her, and resolve this whole mess. >> what happens tomorrow morning? can we expect kim davis back at work? >> i don't know. >> and let me ask you very quickly before i let you go. this has become a political issue by some measures. we've seen today two presidential candidates. what is your take in terms of the public reaction that she is receiving and the political reaction she's receiving from republican candidates?

>> well i think we're all blown away by the public support that kim davis has received. the fact that presidential candidates would take time out of their busy schedules to appear at a rally in support of kim davis, it just speaks volumes about how important this issue is. kim davis wasn't looking to be in jail. she wasn't looking to become a public figure or even to pick a fight with anyone. she simply wanted to observe sher conscience. because because of her stand skpun willingness to back down, she's become somewhat of a symbol to resistance to violations of conscience. and we are glad to represent kim and her decisions and will continue to represent her wherever this may lead. >> thank you for joining us. >> as i just mentioned this kentucky clerk has ignited a nicewide debate over religious liberty. and particularly same-sex marriage. and it is becoming a major issue in the 2016 race. here is more from governor mike

huckabee, moments ago at the rally in kentucky. >> we don't gather here today because we hate anybody. we gather here today because we love god and we love this great country. and we do not want to see this country become the smoldering remains of what once was a great republic where the people ruled and -- a place where five unelected lawyers think that they can rule. we are here to say no they cannot. >> all right. joining me now is correspondent for the up shot at the "new york times" josh boro and republican strategist and columnist at the hill. thank you for joining us. this is obviously become political to some extent. every candidate has weighed in on kim davis by now. some in support and some saying she should obey the law. let's listen to the response from republican candidates. take a listen. >> why are we forcing people to

do something that in some faith, you know, is a greivis sin. >> this is the criminalization of christianity. >> i think it is absurd to put someone in jail for exercising their religious liberty. >> she's sworn to uphold the law. and it seems to me that there ought to be common ground. there ought to be big enough space for her to act on her conscience and for -- now the law is the law of the land for a gay couple to be married in whatever jurisdiction that is. >> and i'm going to begin with the obvious risks for candidates in jumping into this debate, what are they. >> i think it depends who you are in the field mike huckabee and cruz getting in behind her. if state and local officials don't like a supreme court ruling they don't have to enforce it. you have seen candidates closer to the moderate end of the spectrum. people like carly fiorina and chris christie saying well this is the law and you have to

follow the law. and then you saw what jeb bush said there, it is similar so something what donald trump said. we ought to be able to work something out where kim davis can have her conscience and people should be able to get the marriage licenses. kim davis has been indicating she doesn't consider that an acceptable compromised solutions so if this continues in the coming days then we may see that the position that the sort of mainstream candidates most likely to be the republican nominee whether jeb bush or feel weird to put donald trump if that box, that position is not going to be extreme enough for kim davis and her supporters but for a general election it is where republicans have had to end up. >> who do you think benefits more from this issue? those who support her or who have come out against her and in

particular what do you make of the mike huckabee taking such a position. >> it is no surprise of huckabee. i thought it made a great campaign commercial for him today. and gives him a boost in the election season. he really hasn't gotten that much notice from people. but i do think that for mike huckabee and for others this is their big chance to appeal for a significant portion of the republican base and get noticed again. for all the other republicans, e snoeshlz in the general election. i think mostly what they want to do is get this resolved and turn to other issues like a stagnant economy. >> and one of the candidates obviously that's also weighed in is chris christie. he accused cruz and huk bee of grand standing today. take a listen to what he had to say. >> senator cruz going out there to visit her in jail and governor huckabee have a rally. do you see a role for yourself in that. >> quiet frankly i don't think

you should grand stand on this stuff. this is a serious issue. and i don't know if she's looking forward to a visit from senator cruz or not. we'll see. and the fact is it i don't think you should grand stand on this and play politics. >> the word he's using is grand standing here. are senator cruz and mike huckabee grand standing do you think? >> of course they are. by definition when you are on a stage saying go ahead send me to jail if someone needs to be in jail. you are grand standing that. said everything in the republican field is going to be given to grabbnd standing as th try to get attention from trump. and this is a perfect opportunity for grand standing. chris christie himself is not a stranger to grand standing. yeah he's right but what else would you expect. >> and recently a gallup poll showed 60% of americans now support same-sex america. is taking on the case of kim davis really in the interest of

the republican party in 2016 or do you think as the play for primary politics. >> i think you answered your own question. obviously this is really important for mike huckabee and ted cruz. i think for the eventual nominee you kind of be able to fudge it because 60% is a big number to overcome. ronald reagan, on the 80/20, take the 80%. on the 60/40, you know, maybe be a little more quiet on it. so i think for republicans they have got to do a better job of seeking out those issues that the vast majority of the american people agree with them on and not talk about the issues that divide the country so much. that being said, ted cruz and mike huckabee, that is no brainer for them and of course they are grand standing and if they can't do it on this, what use is it the grand stand? >> gentlemen, thank you for your insight. coming. t front runner reboot. hillary clinton is looking to rebound from a summer slide in polls as calls grow louder for vice president joe biden to

enter the race. plus dick cheney rales against the nuclear agreement with iran. it comes as democrats reach a key threshold of support for the deal. and later as the world wakes up to the humanitarian crisis unfolding in europe, how are european nations dealing with the flood of refugees at their bord border? i hate cleaning the gutters. have you touched the stuff? it's evil. and ladders. sfx: [screams]

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let's get to the latest in the democratic race on politics. they are right now vice president joe biden, you can see on your screen, is delivering remarks at the white house apprenticeship summit. as hillary clinton seeks to turn the page on what some are describing as the tough summer with a campaign reboot.

according to today "new york times" and washington post it -- points in new hampshire. while her lead in iowa has shrunk to 11 down from 24 in july. also today the "new york times" reports a second review of her e-mails by intelligence agencies found two e-mails she received contained, quote, top secret information, including one on north korea's nuclear program. the troubles come amid growing enthusiasm for a biden 2016 bid. yesterday the vice president was greeted by chants of run joe run. >> and the major -- no. [ applause ] you got to talk to my wife about that. i've got to talk to my wife about that. >> joining me now is political editor and white house correspondent at the huffington post sam stein and political editor at the boston globe.

good afternoon to both of you. clint ones interviewed about her private server. she said that was a mistake. i'm sorry about that. i take responsibility, to put it in quotes. her campaign is planning a fall reboot but is that possible as long as news stories keep coming out about her e-mails? >> i don't know. it is a bit more contrite than she was to andrea mitchell last week when she said she didn't feel the need to apologize. they were operating under the letter of the law. they have been putting up policy papers and trying to put out an education campaign about the how the classification process works and they are hopeful that when she's called to testify before the house that that will create the type of contrast to help them move off the story. but they are living through a difficult reality which is the e-mails are being sorted through on a monthly basis. so until essentially january

there is going to be head lines about what was in her inbox. whether it was classified at the time and she will have to live with the story until then. >> how much of a concern is the new hampshire poll now showing her nine points behind bernie sanders in the granite state. she's upping spending and certain sometimes campaigns try to downplay polls but is this a cause of concern for her? >> absolutely. new hampshire was supposed to be her gimme. this is a state she's done well before. she attributes her comeback to in 2008. hn was supposed to be not the safest state but definitely her comfort zone. and to see her moving behind bernie sanders in that state it has got to be troubling for the new hampshire am kah campaign and the national campaign. i do think they will take sols

in the fact that the candidate who typically leads in august and september before the primary doesn't often win the primary in the end. new hampshire voters are notoriously fickle and often change their mind at the last minute. >> what are you hearing about the possible reboot? what would that look like? >> well i like i said. more contrite. i know there was a funny story yesterday about her being more authentic and spontaneous, which is sort of when you advertise it that way it is obviously not spontaneous. but we're going to see her do more national interviews including the one at abc and more non interviews. but i expect by and large the fundamentals will stay the same. which is they are going to raise a lot of money. they are going to cross the ts and dot the is when it accommodation to organizing. they have learned the lessons of the 2008 when you have to count delegates and they are going to be methodical about it. and that is her big strength,

which she is in many ways the establishment candidate. and that comes with benefits, money, endorsements and organization and having done it before. i think on the fundamental issues we shouldn't expect too much reboot. i think on the largely superficial matter, presentation, media availabilities, whatever. that is where you will see the reboot. >> and biden got serious encouragement to run over labor day weekend. new monmouth poll shows his support surging to 22% national into the second place. did he sound like a candidate to you in pittsburgh? >> yeah he certainly did sound like he was enjoying what is essentially campaign being i that is not news for joe biden. he loves pressing flesh. he loves getting out there and kissing babies and talking to voters. he's really in his element when he does events like this. so while it might be encouraging, obviously this is a very personal decision. more so than others even given his family situation for vice president. he might take some encouragement away from this but in the end it

is going to be a difficult decision for him. there is an interesting juxtaposition down the line in september where you have hillary clinton with the e-mails preparing for the benghazi testimony. the last week of this month where is joe biden going to be? he's going to be sitting next to the pope a whole lot on his visit to america. interesting contrast. >> and finally the latest attack video on jeb bush. take a listen. >> having trouble sleeping at night? too much energy? need some low energy? >> i have an hsa in some companies. some companies don't. but i think the norm ought to be. >> jeb, for all your sleeping needs. >> is there -- is there a danger that these attacks could go too far? that they are a little too personal sometimes? >> no. i mean the guy did make fun of john mccain for being captured in vietnam. so this is like not even close to that bar. he called mexicans rapists. making fun of jeb for putting

people to sleep is like the minimum offensiveness for donald trump. i think he's just having fun on instagram to be honest. >> i think on the donald trump ruthless scale it is like a 3 out of 10 compared o other things. >> i do feel bad for the woman in the video. she's just sort of dosing off. and now she's in this video. it is terrible. >> thank you both for your insights. coming up the clintn't campaign claims their candidate will start showing more humor and heart. and we'll look at the power of talk show campaigning straight ahead. and back to school, lawmakers return to the halls of congress but with eight legislative days scheduled will they avert a looming government shutdown. slp

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but this month's session is already build as the countdown to shut down. congress has two weeks to agree to keep the government from shuts down october 1st. and a big day for the president and the iran deal. an agreement that will certainly dominant the agenda. a huge day for the iran deal. tell us what happen and what it means. >> this first day back as congress begins what will be a very busy session, gave the president the number he needed of democratic supporters to block any attempt to -- to, you know -- to, you know, be able to block the republicans who wanted to be able to call for a vote of disapproval. this was a key number of democratic supporters for the president. but i can tell you the debate goes on. what we had today, three democrats in favor. one democrat, joe mangs of west virginia opposed. but the debate is happening as

we speak on the floor and the votes won't happen for a few days but the temperature will rise again on capitol hill over the issue. the outcome may not change but it will be a really contentious debate where you will get a lot of the detail and a lot of the background on why these different senators view the deal so differently. and it falls largely on partisan lines but not entirely. and you have republicans who want to push for a veto of zprovl to be able to say that a majority of the senate but not enough to block it. a number of senators want to say this deal isn't the right answer. we think democrats will be able to prevent that from happening. so this is one of those cases ayman where you have a fierce policy differences and it will be the rules of the senate and the process of the senate that will play out. it will be heated and it will be contentious even though it looks as if the president has a real legacy win here. >> and we're going to delve into

the deal later on in the program. another big question today. this is going to be a case of deja vu when americans see the headline but is congress once again ready to shut down the government? >> well there are a few voices in congress talking about that. and it becomes a possibility every time congress builds in a deadline about government funding. october 1st is the fiscal year for the federal government. and you have characters like ted cruz who is a presidential candidate and who is very much involved in the last shut down saying that it is time to try to block funding for the government to take a position against planned proarenthood. the leader of the senate says there will be no shut down. other voices are saying that. but the reality is they have to go through these steps and the heat over shut down fever may come up again. hard to imagine they will get there but something we're going to be talking about. >> thank you very much more fa update. coming up dick cheney gave a

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an update now on the big breaking news story of the day. kentucky county clerk, who spent five days behind bars for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples is now out of jail. kim davis' release now sets up another potential legal confrontation. the release order state she is must not prevent her clerks from issuing licenses to same-sex couples. however her lawyer says she will continue to block those licenses and she's expected to go back to work. davis's release came just ahead of a rally outside the jail where hundreds gathered in support of her, including mike huckabee. >> our friend kim davis has been in this jail behind us for six long days. that's why we are here to pay our respects and tribute to a

courageous elected official who decided that she had to obey god. and she did follow the courage of her biblical convictions. >> and as i mentioned, davis is expected to go back to work this week. now to washington, the white house just won a huge victory on the iran nuclear deal. hours ago in rapid succession, democratic senators announced their support for the deal to slow iran's nuclear program. this brings the total number of democrats supporting the agreement at 41 and that is enough to block a filibuster and ensure president obama does not have to use his veto pen. the white house is watching these developments unfold. joining me now chris jansing. obviously a big day for the white house. is the presidented today breathing a sigh of relief. >> this is a big win for him. a legacy issue.

a victory in the white house's opinion for diplomacy over what they said the only alternative to the iran deal was, which is war. but it has practiceem implications as well because its a been clear that the p 5 plus one that negotiated this deal didn't have the stomach to go back to the negotiating table. so this is making the argument that it would kill our standing in the international community. it also gives back a chance to push back against republicans. the latest of them former vice president dick cheney who had incendiary things to say about what this deal would mean for the world so the white house put out a two and a half minute video against cheney, stringing together a number of different appearances on news programs where they called into question statements he had made during

the iraq war in particular. and the point of the video is dick cheney, you were wrong then and you were wrong now. a sign that the white house is not going to back off on any of this. and in fact today one of the key points that josh earnest made at the briefing ayman was something we heard from him before. that republicans were against this deal before they knew what the deal was. clearly that has made the white house bristle for some months now. today they have a victory in their pocket. >> thank you very much. for more i want to bring in former democratic governor of new mexico. thank you for joining us. i know you have expressed reservations about this deal in the past. where do you stand on it now? >> well i do believe the president deserves credit. his negotiating team as i've said before, the nuclear side of the agreement i think makes sense. the compliance, making sure inspections. it is the other side of the deal that concerns me.

iran's behavior. the fact that they can proceed with lifting the arms embargo and they can buy and sell missiles and conventional weapons, mess around with israel and yemen and syria. there are four american hostages that are still at large. so i think the president and the administration have to be careful. this is a victory. they shouldn't gloat. a majority of the congress is still against the deal. the house will turn it down. so i think the administration has to focus on not gloating but making sure that the compliance, the inspections, the sanctions relief and pushi ining iran in next few months to behave, to be a member of the international community, to stop messing around is vital. because this is really divided this country. and our foreign policy should be bipartisan. >> and governor, to be clear

though, do you support the bill -- do you support the deal as it is today? >> i would vote right now, i would lean no. i would wait to get a little more time in terms of iran's behavior. there is still two weeks. maybe they will do some kind of initiative with syria. maybe they will release a hostage. if they take a responsible step, i may go the other way. i'm a democrat but i'm also an american. i -- i think this deal, the president deserves credit. but let's be careful and not appear to be divisive. >> and sir, i wanted to play a video the white house put out today. watch this clip. >> dick cheney was wrong about iraq, why should they listen to you on iran? >> because i was right about iraq. because i was right about iran. >> seems like the white house

would make to make him the face of opposition to the iran deal and they are also evoking the iraq war which probably resonates loudly with the american public. do you feel that's fair to do? >> i do think it is fair because this debate has gotten really partisan. and a majority of republicans, in my judgment, have been partisan. there are some that have not. and i don't want to cast the entire republican party in a negative light on this issue. but, you know, the vice president cheney has been bitterly attacking the administration. and this is -- you know, this is a salvo that i think is appropriate. >> but there are also democrats that are not supportive of this deal the way it stands right now. >> that's right. you know senator menendez, senator cardin, the ranking member on foreign affairs. >> senator schumer, yeah.

>> you know, i just don't think this is entirely partisan. there is concern on national security grounds. i think on the whole the nuke loor side of the agreement is good. and the administration deserves credit. but i think it is that iran behavior, the other side. the arms embargo side. the fact that they are not moving on syria, the fact that they haven't released american hostages. that israel is still vulnerable. there is two weeks left. maybe the administration makes a real push with allies to get iran to show positive behavior before the final vote i think they could get more democrats like me across the board. >> all right. it should be an interesting month to say the at least. bill richardson, thank you for joining us. coming up the desperate humanitarian situation in europe. how authorities are responding to the tens of thousands of migrants flooding borders.

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let's head overseas where authorities are continuing to deal with the growing number of refugees flooding borders. as americans begin to be bombarded with the images of the emergency unfolding overseas. over 28,000 refugees have arrived in germany the past week with almost 18,000 arriving on saturday and sunday alone. and new video shows hundreds breaking through a police barrier at the camp in hungary. the refugees were waiting for buses to take them to budapest but only one came. nbc is in budapest continuing to follow the crisis. let's talk about the refugees and migrants. where are they coming from? and why are they coming specifically to these partsds of europe? >> well ayman, most of them come

from syria and afghanistan. and war torn countries. of course they are escaping war and persecution. and they are just trying to get a better life in europe. so they are asylum seekers. they are refugees and they are not economic migrants. now if you look from the perspective of where i'm standing, which is coletti train station in budapest, this is where refugees try to catch trains to austria and germany. what looks like the situation from last week have dramatically improved. there are only about a couple of hundred refugees left here compared to the 3,000 that were here last week. but this is just in the [inaudible] of course most of the ones here last week have managed to get all the way to the border with with austria and then on to germany. but there are hundreds of more that are being prevented from coming here. they are stuck on the border,

just across the border from serbia into hungary. in a refugee camp that is so overcrowded that many of them had to sleep in the past few days on the field surrounding the camp on damp grass in the freezing cold. it has to be noted that the temperature here went from the high 80s from last week to the 50s of today. and of course it is very cold when you are sleeping rough. many as you said have been trying to -- this has contributed to the frustration of these refugees and many have been trying to break the cordons of the police and riot gear surrounding the center. only a couple of hundred managed to escape and they are probably making their way here. >> thank you very much for that update. coming up, and the politics of late night. jeb bush makes an appearance on colbert's debut late show. does talk show campaigning work? stay with us.

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>> a sneak peek at obama's outdoor at venture with bear grylls. a half eaten salmon. >> this is half a eaten by a bear. >> oh i heard a little sizzle there. >> i think a piece of salmon, this will work just fine. it would have been nice if he had had a cracker to go with it. the fact that he told me that this is a leftover fish from a bear? i don't know if that was necessary. he could have just left that out. >> let's get a clek on wall street. here is josh lipton. >> u.s. stocks closing sharply higher. rebounding after a long weekend from their second worst week for the year. that is gains in global markets boosting sentiment. the dow rose 390. the s&p 500 jumped 48.

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you always have a choice. book now at the new choicehotels.com summer is officially over. now comes the start of the high gear fall campaign season. and any moment now two key candidates will both be doing something considered non traditional, i guess, if you will, at least from a campaigning perspective right here in new york city. hillary clinton will be taping an appearance with ellen degeneres in new york. that interview will air this thursday. part of a new strategy that aids say is intended to show her humor and heart. a few blocks from her jeb bush will be taping his own talk show interview with stephen colbert. joining me to discuss the lighter side of the political campaign.

let's talk about whether this strategy will work for hillary clinton and show the humor and heart side of her that her aids want her to showcase? >> it will work if it is not seen as the strategy. and the whole idea of saying right, now i'm going to show humor and now i'm going show heart, the whole notion sounds very contrived. and the idea is -- in the case particularly of clinton and bush, the idea is to show a human side there is that is not necessarily seen in the caricature of both. but it is tricky. there is nothing worse than going on a comedy show or one of the lighter talk shows and to appear stiff, to appear like you are reciting laugh lines written for you by a speech are writer. it is dangerous in that way. you say it is non traditional. i would say it is becoming the new tradition that everybody needs to show they are an ordinary joe even if they are not. >> and something bush has been

criticized before, particularly by donald trump who's described him as low energy. what does jeb's appearance on colbert do for him? >> well look, it is a high-wire act. if he comes out and makes a couple of jokes that fall flat, that is a big problem for him. if he seems at ease with himself and he seems to be able to keep up the banter, that works fine it. s worked well for obama it. worked well for president bush before that. neither jeb bush nor hillary clinton is sort of known as that kind of "put them on the couch and they are going entertain you type." so i would say there is a higher degree of risk with these candidates. >> and you talk about this being the new traditional norm. president obama and bill clinton back in 92. president obama really perfected the talk show appearance. does this work? does this help candidates win

voters. >> absolutely. any little bit helps in here and if you can have a big moment that somebody will remember. we still remember bill clinton and his saxophone. if you can have a moment like that it will help you a lot. but a bad moment can also do trouble. >> appreciate that. we're going to watch tonight. that's it for this hour. michael eric dyson picks up live coverage next. thanks for watching. i'm michael eric kadyson. tonight the clinton campaign takes a new approach. and find out why kim davis support rirs comparing her to a civil rights icon. and first we have breaking news. hillary clinton is about to take the stage right outside the msnbc studios at 30 rock. she's taping an episode of the ellen degeneres show that will air on thursday.