>> thank you, lawrence. >> we have to sell a bunch of these for you. >> thank you, really appreciate it. >> the battle has arrived. it's biden versus hillary. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. he looks like a candidate out there in pittsburgh yesterday running back and forth across the parade route shaking hands, smiling, kissing babies, being joe biden. nobody loves the crowd more. and all of a sudden the crowds are starting to love joe back. we've got a new national poll showing him passing bernie sanders now. and now the number one challenger to hillary clinton. and she knows it. michael steele was chairman of the republican party. he's an msnbc political analyst. amy walters and radio talk show's ron reagan is an msnbc political analyst.

hillary clinton's campaign has been seen trying to muscle vice president joe biden out of the democratic race before he gets in. she'sing appealing to gender loyalty with fierce speeches about women's reproductive rights and headlined a big new hampshire for hillary rally in that crucial first primary state where she was officially endorsed by jeanne shaheen. hillary's campaign is also touting their support among party insiders including most especially superdelegates. bloomberg reports senior clinton campaign officials are claiming that hillary clinton has already secured one-fifth of the pledges needed to win the democratic presidential nomination. well, they're also, the clinton people, trying to calm down nervous democratic donors. the associated press reports donors who have publicly expressed support for a biden run have been contacted by the clinton team, according to donors and democratic strategists, even clinton herself has made a few calls. they said, to express her disappointment with those

jumping ship, i suppose. and finally "the new york times" reported that the clinton campaign is pursuing a southern strategy and looking to the south as a firewall to lock up the nomination in case she loses contests up there in iowa and new hampshire to sanders. in interviews advisers said the campaign pass increasingly devoting staff members and money to win the primary while laying the groundwork to sweep alabama, arkansas, georgia, oklahoma, tennessee, texas and virginia on march 1st. that's ambitious. they point to her popularity with black and hispanic voters down south as well as her policy stances and the relationship that she and bill clinton have cultivated. for weeks now, months, we've watched bernie as number one opponent. he's got new hampshire pretty much in the bag for a while, he's threatening in iowa. a new national poll shows something's going on with biden. is he just picking up the loose pieces from clinton -- ship clinton?

whenever there's a bad story about e-mail, does he get another ten points? what's going on here? >> joe biden and hillary clinton have the exact same favorable ratings among democrats. it's saying i like both of these candidates. sure, give me a choice right now. >> for president. not liking them. not who they're going to have dinner with that night. >> she's not losing votes as much as he's gaining them. >> why is he gaining them? >> i think they like that there's another option out there. when i talk to democratic voters, their big u.s. frustration is the lack of enthusiasm on the part of hillary clinton. they want the see an engagement. they see a lot going on in the republican side, and they want to feel like their vote matters, too. and she has to earn it from them. >> there's something there. first of all, i'm baffled by some of the so-called issues these days. benghazi. i don't care if you trumpet it on 50 different musical instruments, i don't know what benghazi means. e-mail seems to me a decision

she made out of privacy concerns. okay, she's a private person. is that a mortal sin? i'm not sure. i doubt it. when people say they're against hillary before e-mail, i go you were for her before e-mail? make a lack of pizzazz in her campaign. maybe that's it. a reason for running. joe biden's picking up speed. >> if joe biden is gaining votes, he's taking them from someone, right? and that's hillary clinton. or maybe even bernie sanders but most likely hillary clinton. and there's a reason for that. it goes to what amy said. there's a sameness about her campaign that hearkens back to 2008. she's basically running the same playbook and getting the same result. she's in the same position looking over her shoulder at her opponents who are gaining ground on her when she's the presumptive heir apparent. >> isn't that like every candidate who has ran tw except reagan. >> reagan changed it.

and there's enthusiasm. >> what do you make of this biden boomlet. it shows him going up to 22%. he was at 12 recently. hillary clinton is going down 10 is a majority. 42 from 52 which something's astir here. i don't know whether it's permanent, a trend or just a burp. what do you make of it? >> i make of it that people are very nervousbout hry clinton. she doesn't seem to be able to shake this e-mail scandal, and i put that in quotes. like you i'm not sure this is much of a scandal. it may raise questions about how computer servers ought to be used for public officials. but i don't see her having done anything illegal or really even wrong there. but nevertheless, the media narrative around hillary clinton is always paired with scandal. so she's got that sort of headwind here. joe biden i think perceives that.

there are people who are nervous about her being able to close the deal. and so they look for another -- >> look at joe. >> -- another establishment candidate. >> we have an advantage. watching biden do what he did. i was standing out there with al roker at the last inaugural break. and he does this. he just loves contact. he loves the physical connection with regular people. i don't think it's even ideological or political. >> no, it's not. >> he wants to physically hold people. >> in many ways he's the opposite of clinton in that way. >> i think so. >> her people are now talking about how we're going to show you more of her heart. she's going to loosen up now. if you got to have assistants telling you that that's what the candidate is going to do, they obviously have a hard time doing that. joe biden does not. you're right. he's a natural at this. >> he would serve as president so he could run for office. she'll run so she can be president. >> there's a joy level and campaigning that you see every day with him. my mother saw him when she was

in south carolina. he kissed her on the lips. i've never had a candidate -- she didn't know him. but one of those things, i never met him before but felt like, okay, well, there we go. >> my relatives, nothing wrong with it. just very direct and very loving. let's watch joe biden in action, maybe not kissing but marching, pledge, hand shaking, baby kissing, not shaking babies, i hope. and labor unions like the great man himself richard trumka. >> i'm going to run part of it. i'm going to run part of the parade. this is a struggle to be able to catch up. >> i want to ask you mr. republican, how can richard trumka is okay with biden who basically backed the trade deal then out there saying to

hillary, we want you out there against the trade bill. how come she's being measured by that standard and not joe? >> because he loves joe. >> joe's standard with the unions is baked in. >> even though he's with the trade deal? >> look, they forgive -- just like trump and republicans. >> what did hillary ever do wrong? >> i'm just saying, he's bringing something. he has a history that they respect. they understand him. he's one of them. >> how come hillary ain't? >> because she's not one of them. >> i don't know that we've lost -- i don't know that she's lost labor. >> i don't think she's lost them but clearly -- >> explain why labor's being cute with biden. head of the labor union walking along chuckling with him. >> why not? more pressure on hillary clinton to do what they would like to see her do. >> where is she on the trade bill? >> we don't know. >> you want to answer that question about a double standard. is there a double standard? there often is, but is there one here where hillary is being judged harshly by the head of

the labor association, the afl-cio and biden is not suffering through that kind of little test? >> mm. >> is there a double standard? >> there can be in a way. as michael was saying, the labor support for biden is baked in. and they understand, i think, that this is a loyal vice president supporting his president's trade bill. hillary clinton, on the other hand, you don't quite know where she is. you know, is she going to support it or not? so there's a big question mark there. >> you just defined terms, but what's the answer? are they being fair to her? >> probably not. but who said politics is fair? >> here we are, a candidate who said it is not unfair. the head of the largest labor union on "meet the press" afl-cio president richard trumka talking about what kind of support hillary clinton might expect from his union. >> here's the difference.

if she doesn't take a position on ttp, then you can say she's looking for our vote. if she does take a position on tpp, then she's looking for our support. and the difference is if you get my vote, i come out on election day and i pull the lever. if you got my support, i get up at 7:00 in the morning, i stuff 200 envelope, i make seven calls, i go knock on a few doors and i get my neighbor all excited about voting for her as well. that's what's at stake for her. >> you know what's going on, everybody is pulling her chain because they think she's a little vulnerable. >> of course. >> is biden going to make the move? i mean, i don't want to make it too tough on you guys because i don't know the answer. will he get closer to running? >> i think he wants to get closer to running. >> november he says now. you have to predict things. job >> but in this case more of a psychiatrist trying to predict somethinan a pitical

analyst. >> you don't want him to run? >> do i, though? there's this part of me that wants him to run, then he knows what it is to run and does he have the stamina. >> people who run for president tend to keep running until they win it. what do you think of this guy, joe biden? >> are you asking me? >> yeah. >> i think biden's going to do it, but you know we just don't know. he's had personal tragedies in his life, as we know, just recently. there may be an emotional component here that's something beyond what we can predict. i would say that he's going to go for it. >> i think he's about ten minutes away from running, any moment now. he really wants to run. he may put it off but he wants to run badly. he things he can win because he thinks this is his chance in history and he thinks hillary will falter. he's not a big fan of the clintons. he thinks this is his chance and

it's never coming again. michael steele, thank you. three of us agree, amy doesn't. i think i got it right. although you're more quizzical here. ron reagan and i are totally in agreement. he has the votes he needs. a big win for the president and a defeat for republicans like dick cheney who wants to tank the deal. still, donald trump ben carson have over 50% support in the latest iowa polling while jeb bush, marco rubio and scat -- scott walker are stuck in single digits. and two weeks before pope francis makes his first trip to america, there's a culture war growing inside the vatican between his liberal supporters who hail him as a revolutionary and strict conservatives who are resisting the changes he's brought to the church. let's talk about how conservatives in this country are reacting to that fight. let me finish with the iranian nuclear deal.

a kentucky clerk jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples is now free. a federal judge ordered kim davis out after five nights behind bars. she was jailed thursday of last week held in contempt of court for refusing to issue those marriage licenses. davis addressed her supporters late today. >> keep on pressing. don't let down. because he is here. and he's worthy, he's worthy. thank you so much. >> well, today presidential candidates mike huckabee and ted cruz met with davis and rallied with her supporters. here's huckabee. >> we do not want to see this country become the smoldering remains of what once was a great republic where the people ruled

and is exchange for a place where five unelected lawyers think that they can rule. we're here to say no, they cannot. >> there's a glorious tribute to the u.s. constitution. we'll be right back. ey were aske what you're doing now, janice. blogging. your blog is just pictures of you in the mirror. it's called a fashion blog, todd. well, i've been helping people save money with progressive's discounts. flo, can you get janice a job? [ laughs ] you should've stuck to softball! i was so much better at softball than janice, dad. where's your wife, todd? vacation. discounts like homeowners', multi-policy -- i got a discount on this ham. i've got the meat sweats. this is good ham, diane. paperless discounts -- give it a rest, flo. all: yeah, flo, give it a rest.

welcome back to "hardball." president obama and supporters of the nuclear deal with iran could have reached a major victory today. four more u.s. senators came out in agreement. bringing the total to 42. that's enough to block a congressional rejection of the deal. congress has until september 17th, next thursday, to vote on the deal, but opponents aren't going down without a fight. today former vice president dick cheney called the agreement madness and warned that the results could be catastrophic for national security. senator richard blumenthal is one of the four senators who

came out in favor of the deal today. great honor to have you on. i can only imagine what you've been through in your heart staying up at night thinking about it. tell us -- take a minute or so. take us through your own battle with this decision. >> there were very strong and compelling arguments on both sides. and friends and supporters on both sides, it has been a deeply difficult decision. but at the end of the day, i decided that supporting this agreement was the best path to preventing a nuclear-armed iran and doing so by peaceful means through diplomacy, not military force. and one of the key facts for me, as i learn throughout this process was that our allies and partners in this negotiation are not coming back to the table. and rejecting this deal means that the united states, not iran, would be isolated. iran would be enjoying the results of sanctions being lifted, a huge windfall without any kind of discipline or united action.

i want the united states to be in the lead here through diplomacy. and to be able to stop the funding of terrorism through a crackdown and overwhelming sanctions that we can help to lead going forward. and that was ultimately very persuasive to me as well as i stayed up those nights that looking forward i hope through unilateral action or consulting with our allies we can take specific steps to strengthen and improve this deal which is far from perfect. >> let me ask you, was there ever a time during the decision-making, personal decision-making when you thought you would go the other way? did you ever get hit with a really good argument against this deal? >> iran is not to be trusted. that's a good argument against this deal. there are shortcomings in the inspection verification process. another good argument.

and there are also shortcomings in the duration of the agreement. as i spoke to opponents of the agreement, i saw arguments on the other side and some of them were made with tremendous passion. >> i'll bet. >> and vehemence. but at the end of the day, i became persuaded as a matter of conscience and conviction that supporting the agreement was right for america and right for our allies. >> just happened that over the weekend i was reading an amazing book about world war ii. there's chapters in there about the holocaust which i've never read anything like them before. firsthand account of a survivor of auschwitz and the way in which he saw the german, european, if you will, say the sadistic torture of people. humiliating them right to the end without anyone stepping up and saying no one said no. did that enter into your thinking that there was such a recent history in the human experience that made you wonder do the jewish people have to look out for themselves? >> chris, my dad came to this country in 1935 to escape

persecution in germany. he succeeded in bringing here his immediate family, but i lost family in the holocaust. and that memory is still very much a part of who i am. and i'm very much aware of the need to be resolute and steadfast in support of israel as well as our other allies in the middle east, that they will need military assets, and i'm determined to fight for them in order to maintain their qualitative edge and also for their survival. and so i'm determined to make some good come of this great to strengthen and improve it. >> i hope you're right. i think you are. senator richard blumenthal of connecticut, thank you so much. who decided today to support the agreement. dick cheney continued his attack on the deal during a speech at the american enterprise institute. his talk was interrupted by a protester who called him a war criminal before being forced out

of the room. he gave a classic cheney performance full of fear and threats of mass destruction to this country. >> with the removal of restrictions on iran's ballistic missile program this agreement will give iran the means to launch a nuclear attack on the u.s. that guarantees that in less time than has passed since 9/11, a regime with death to america as a pillar of its national policy will have the ability and the materiel to produce an arsenal of nuclear weapons. charles krauthammer has written that it took nazi germany seven years to kill 6 million jews. it would take a nuclear-armed iran one day. to build a deliverable nuclear weapon is a mercifully difficult enterprise. but when the world wakes up one day to find the news that islamic radicals in tehran have done it, all the pretenses will fall away and new lines of force

come into view with all further terms to be worked out under the threat of the first use of the nuclear weapon since nagasaki. i'm joined by the president of jay street, a pro-israeli group that came out in favor of the deal early on and robert grim. this has been amazingly difficult. you've been right in the front of this fight. cheney is selling cheney, he sells it all the time. >> these arguments were the arguments that were used in the last fiasco that we had in -- >> 200,000 people dead because of that war. blowing up in the middle east. thank you, mr. cheney. >> look what we have today. there's an argument you wouldn't have the whole situation with iran today if you didn't have that decision. >> iraq was the only buffer against iraq or israel. >> it changed the dynamics of the region. >> how about europe. everything he be changed because of that stupid war in iraq. >> listening to those arguments that are now being resurfaced by him and the prime minister of

israel and some of the republican party in congress today. and they're trying to sell us the same -- >> what do you think were the worst mistake of people against the deal having made? >> prime minister netanyahu coming here in march to make that speech. >> against this country's government. >> it made it far less of a rational decision about the rational deal and the policy. a huge mistake by opponents of the deal. >> i don't think john boehner's a bad guy. but i think that was a bad decision. >> bad mistake. >> when cheney came into office there were zero centrifuges in iran. when he left there was something like 5,000. >> how does he get away with that? >> it's not clear he totally does. >> don't say it that way. don't say on fox news. that's how they end it with us. they almost did a good job of interrogating him. and pointed out that the real advances made by the nuclear program was under a republican

watch. >> he just looks the other way and just keeps repeating talking points. but history will not judge that kindly. i think the fact that he came out and then you saw this flood of supporters of the deal announce their public support, i think also says something about his credibility. i think obama couldn't have asked for a better spokes to come forward for the other side. >> it seems to me that in politics, the safest votes, as you know, jeremy and you know, ryan, are to vote for something that passes or to vote for something that fails because then you're not personally responsible for what happens, the consequences. what are your responsibilities now? what are the responsibilities of this administration to make sure that iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon? >> the implementation of the deal is absolutely critical. living up to the promise -- >> did you read alan ger show wits today? >> not today. >> they say in preamble language they're not going to have a nuclear weapon. >> this is the president's commitment, right? and not just the 15 years of the deal. this is a commitment that goes

beyond the deal. it's in perpetuity. there are pieces that continue beyond this window. that's the commitment. we have to make sure that the resources are there, the cooperation is there to implement it. >> is this the end of the fight? is it over? >> this particular fight is over. yes. now it's about implementation. a lot of people took courageous votes like senator blumenthal came forward before it was over. >> and ron wyden just now. >> senator cantwell. >> what do you make? >> trying to be conservative. yes, he said publicly, i am leaning yes. he said the opponents haven't made an argument for what could be done if this deal goes down. in other words, he saw that this was something he ought to support or that he wanted to see pass. >> all the signals. >> once it was passed, he said, oh, free vote, i'm voting no. >> when you need 41 to stop the resolution from passing, because

it is a no-confidence vote in our president. >> which they have, they have the 41. >> that's a major victory for the president. jeremy, a great diplomat, a great fighter on this. jeremy ben-ami of j street which you'll be hearing a lot more of in the future. up next, donald trump and ben carson are making the most noise in the republican party. they're getting most of the votes right now. i'll ask haley barbour.

i will be totally pledging my allegiance to the republican party and the conservative principles for which it stands, and we will go out and we will fight hard, and we will win. >> guys like a p.o.w. with his fingers crossed. that was donald trump pretending

he'll stick with the republican party. donald trump at least formally committed himself to the party last week renouncing even the prospect of a third-party bid if he doesn't get the nomination himself. trump's rise has been fueled by a wasn't of anti-establishment zeal that's overtaken the electorate. trump and carson are leading the field. trump at 29, carson at 22, while all their opponents are in single digits. support for trump and dr. carson accounts for more than half of iowan republicans. according to a national poll last week, 73% of republicans, about three-quarters, say they'd prefer an outsider as president to someone with experience in washington. i'm joined by a man who knows what he's talking about, former republican national chairman haley barbour. "america's greatest storm." i want to talk to you about the storm in a minute because it's a

hell of a story of the american people. is the republican party coming apart? your party was formed before the civil war. you had the a boll igsists that really wanted to get rid of slavery, when the whig party. is it breaking off from the old bush party, the establishment party? >> what you're seeing in the republican party, you're also seeing a version in the democratic party, people are unhappy. if you look at the poll, every poll by everybody says more than 60% of americans think the country is going in the wrong direction. by that they're describing washington. if you ask them about their home state, the numbers are radically -- >> why aren't they backing governors. walker and kasich aren't getting numbers. >> because right now it's the anger and trump has done a -- >> anger at what? >> at washington. >> what does that mean? >> the country is going in the wrong direction. >> these are generalities. why is jeb bush getting half of

single digits? >> because lots of republicans are very mad at washington. >> he's not from washington. >> exactly. that's one of the interesting things about it. he is the ultimate washington candidate. but look, chris, people think the country's going in the wrong direction at warp speed. they look at this economy and they're told, oh, the economy's getting better. not getting better in their lives. >> what are the chances of an establishment republican candidate winning the president? i'm talking somebody like jeb bush. can he actually win the nomination after all this anger? >> i think -- >> what about insiders? >> could jeb win? yes. marco rubio? yes. but what is driving the polling today in the summer of 2015 is anger, dissatisfaction, not believing in washington, and look, don't thing bernie sanders isn't part of this, too. >> i'm going to talk about him, too. do you think trump could win the

nomination? >> of course he could. do i think he will. i think it's unlikely, but i do think one thing he did to help himself. he saidly not run for third party -- >> who has a better chance than him to win the nomination. give me a name. >> ben carson. >> has a better chance of being the nominee. you want to take that back? >> no, i don't want to take it back. >> haley barbour says ben carson has a better chance to win the nomination than donald trump? >> you're asking me a question that's silly for me to answer. >> you're an expert. let's talk about something you've written beautifully about. "america's great storm." you were the leader in your state and many parts of the region of the south after katrina. i think you rallied the people. i think the people look pretty darn good in mississippi. there you are in the field, in the rubble. they came back pretty strong along the gulf of mexico. >> the truth is i didn't rally the people.

the people rallied themselves. the thing about katrina that's very undercovered, really not covered at all, is the spirit and the people of mississippi got knocked down flat, bore the brunt of the worst natural disaster in american history, utter obliteration, back up within 24 hours rebuilding their communities. not just helping themselves but helping their neighbors. the outpouring of volunteers, chris, 954,000 volunteers. >> you mentioned that people don't like washington. all right? as an idea. in your book you write about how you butted heads personally with the bush white house and members of your own party in your effort to secure more money in the aftermath of katrina. i was really upset by the lack of support from the white house -- that was the bush white house. when my state was in its greatest hour of need, the president wasn't going to help me. in order to overcome the resistance to doing something that had never been done before, and to overcome the resistance to spending billions of dollars of federal money in the katrina

states. i had to explain what was at stake and why it was the right thing for the federal government to do this. they were resisting you. >> i wrote later in the book it became clear to me that the white house was saying we're not going to endorse this. we don't want to put the president out on this limb. but we think you're going to win without us. we're not going to fight you. i wasn't happy about that answer, but it was sure better than when i first thought are they going to oppose this? they never opposed it. but they made us -- or we were required to win this on our own. it wasn't just me. thad cochran, bill frist was from tennessee, the republican leader. everybody worked together. i tell a story in there about barney frank who i bumped into walking into the capitol and he called me over and said, i hear mississippi's got a plan for special hurricane relief. he said send me a copy, i want to write every member of the house and urge them to vote for it, which he did. >> haley barbour is the best at telling its story.

he was a can-do leader when mississippi needed one and the country needed to see one. i wrote that. the name of the book is "america's great storm" a great story of america and how we do come back. thank you, haley barbour. up next, pope francis is coming to america in two weeks. he's leading the catholic church in a more liberal, more tolerant direction, climate change, social issues. how long can social conservatives in this country continue to dig in and fight against the changing tide of history?

battle royale over faith and progressive politics has hit the front pages today. pope francis is making friends on the left and some enemies on the right and he's headed for washington. as "the washington post" reports, conservative dissent is brewing inside the vatic an right now. the changes left the hierarchy more polarized than any point since the great reformers of the 1960s. the pope's leading something of a liberal crusade.

you might also call it a crusade of compassion. this is what he said about homosexuals, about gay people, who am i to judge? on climate change, our home is being ruined by human activity. our home being the earth. his directed priests to offer an sole ugs to women who had abortions and called for softer immigration policies. when he comes to the u.s. he'll address a joint session of the u.s. congress. the roundtable tonight, michelle bernard, paul singer and ruth markus. i want to start with you, michelle. you're closest, i think. what are you episcopalian. >> catholic light. >> that's fair enough. my father was episcopalian before he found the light. let me ask you about the american reaction to this pope. i look at him -- it's not going to be doctrinal changes. but what he's doing -- i am a catholic all my life. i am a catholic. i'll forever be one. what he's saying it's the sin,

not the sinner. it gets back to that we're going to forgive, even mortal sin. a woman who has had an abortion is many ways a tragedy for her. she had to make a decision. and after she made it, she decided that wasn't what she felt good about or whatever, that there would be a way to come home. you go to confession and no more excommunication. i think that's a wonderful embrace of so many catholics. >> absolutely. >> to come back to the church. >> absolutely. i love this pope, for one. >> as do millions of people. >> as an episcopalian. for people who are gay, for women -- >> that's not a decision. you are gay. >> for a woman, you're either born male or female. for people who feel excluded by the catholic church or even take it outside of the realm of the church, have felt excluded in our culture in any way, this

pope is talking about what it really is to be -- >> no religious test here. why would the right wing not like the guy? i have a theological theory. they don't like it because they like the fire and brimstone. they like the terror of sin. if you commit a sin that's so horrible and you are now an outcast. therefore you'll be lest likely to become an outcast, which i think is crazy. i don't think it works that way. >> i'm a reporter who covers politics. i'd like to see more politics where we believe it is the sin not the sinner, where we can disagree with each other on a policy issue and not think that you are bad for america and you probably beat your dog when you go home. >> how about dick cheney? you have some exceptions here? >> even dick cheney can go to confession. but it's the language of let us love each other and disagree with our ideas, not with our humanity.

>> i think on the question of compassion and i think that that's -- religion has a role in ordering society. you know, keeping marriages together. parents look out for the kids. all these values by the ten commandments are human values. that's why i don't have a problem with them appearing in a government building. because they're really human values. >> the pope is arriving in the united states an absolutely interesting political moment. this is a pope whose politics, if you will, are much more in line with those of american catholics than his predecessors, which actually helps to explain a little bit, i think, why the conservatives, political conservatives might not be so happy about his arrival. many of the things he's stressing, the tolerance, issues of global warming, issues of opening up immigration are not in line -- well, not gay marriage, but things where he's really been very clear we must be welcoming towards immigrants,

they're not republican party or conserative dogma. and that's going to create some potentially uncomfortable moments for republicans as he speaks to congress. >> the wild thing is, which is very secular, it's the first time he's ever been here. he probably thinks like a lot of people from the east or the south that we're much more of a capitalist country than we are. there's a good social welfare system in this country. it's surprisingly present. social security and medicare and medicaid. he'll be happy to hear there's a lot of effort in this country. it isn't all me first. it's not that bad, your holiness. the roundtable is staying with us. how will europe cope with the influx of hundreds of thousands of migrants of refugees from the middle east? look at these pictures. we sent two women into a real guys night out

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yesterday, a spokesman of the security council said the white house was looking at options to allow more refugees to come here. today, germany just announced plans to take up to 500,000 of them annually. angela merkel says, quote, this is a test that will decide our european values, the entire world is watching us. that's a big question for us tonight. can these millions of refugees and migrants, if you will, adapt to european values. ruth, this isn't just a question of bringing people in, it's letting them become europeans and hoping they will. >> well, it's a really complicated question, and it's an issue that europe has been struggling with for some time now even before this latest influx. look at what has happened in france with muslims. well, with the alienation of many people in muslim society. >> so you can't wear head covers --

>> yeah. and all of that. so now, you have -- >> what's your answer? is it doable? what can they -- >> my answer is, it doesn't matter if it's doable or not, because it's necessary for europe. it's necessary for other countries. >> what do you do? >> it's necessary for the united states. >> i agree. >> to try to -- >> and then what? >> then we're going to have to figure out. >> paul, how do we do it? >> i just want to -- >> the second step's very important. >> because we are morally responsible and europe is in part morally responsible for this situation. >> it's easier for the americans to do it because we have a culture of assimilation, immigration, larger by population and size. we can absorb more people. it's easier for us to do it than the french or germans or italians who have, you know, these cultures. >> how do you do it without the politics in the middle east? how do you bring them in without the politics? >> you can't. >> i'm going to kill somebody who -- i have a right to do that. >> are we going to politically

test everybody? >> i don't know. i can put miss hands out, too, got to make a decision up front. >> i don't think you can. i agree with ruth. we have a moral obligation to take in as many people as possible. however, there's some serious questions posed. what happens when you have second generation people who go to europe and they're not doing as well as others. they might be the subject of religious discrimination. and they might feel like they are in a culture clash, a religious clash. what do you do at that point in time? and does that lead to more terrorism. those are questions that europeans and americans are going to have to ask themselves about how we bring -- >> you're right when you're right. and seriously, that second step. are you going to have problems down the road? michelle bernard, thank you. paul singer. ruth marcus, i read you all the time. and when we return, let me finish with a difficult deliberation. you're watching "hardball," the

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let me finish tonight with the difficult deliberation over the nuclear deal. i can't remember a time i've watched individual senators go through a hard time of weighing two sides of a question. do they back the president? or do they stake out a place for bold opposition. it's clear how the republican senators decided. they did it as a pact.

as they behaved in each vital stage of the presidency. their default position shepherded by the leaders has been no. on the democratic side, the matter has caused sleepless nights, long conversations with trusted friends, endless sessions with staffs and political strategists. it's been a battle for the heart. well-based concerns for the state of israel were born in the country in the very aftermath of the holocaust. i spent the last week reading the brilliant "1944" with the unforgettable accounts of went on in auschwitz. the lack of remorse in the way europeans killed jewish people by the millions. having to think of a present day iran, present day israel, present day america and the present day world all with the memory stirring of what happened in the recent century is a hard test. not just a political judgment or policy judgment, but in the deepest, most permanent of moral terms. i think and hope i've lived up to this test to judge the way members voted not on motive,

which is a mixture all the time, but of consequence. i do believe that we are in a stronger position as a country, as a force for good. if we stand together and back this agreement. and back our president and that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. >> tonight on "all in." decision 2016 descends on grace in kentucky. >> if somebody needs to go, aisle going to go in her place. >> the latest on the spectacle to stop same-sex marriage in kentucky. then, colonel lawrence wilkerson on dick cheney's downward spiral. >> didn't you leave the administration, leave president obama with a mess? >> well, i don't think of it that way. >> plus, what role is the media playing in hillary clinton's slipping poll numbers. and he's an nfl hall of famer and an american icon. my interview with jim brown on