we were sitting right on it. febreze is stunningly effective. continuously eliminate odors for up to 45 days break out the febreze you plug in [inhale + exhale mnemonic] and breathe happy. i know there have been questions about my e-mails. so i want to address that directly. looking back, it would have been better if i'd simply used a second e-mail account and carried a second phone, but at the time, this didn't seem like an issue. >> i think there's so much confusion around this that i understand why reporters and the public are, you know, asking questions. but the facts are pretty clear. >> you may have seen that i recently launched a snapchat account. i love it. those messages disappear all by themselves. >> in retrospect, it's turned

out to be anything but convenient. >> you were in charge of it. did you wipe the server? >> with a cloth or something? no. >> nobody talks to me about it. >> you said recently that using your personal e-mail while you were secretary of state was not the best choice and you take responsibility. are you sorry? >> well, i certainly wish that i had made a different choice. and i know why the american people have questions about it. but, in retrospect, it certainly would have been better. i take responsibility. >> are you sorry? do you want to apologize to the american people for the choice you made? >> well, it wasn't the best choice. >> it's a distraction, certainly, but it hasn't in any way affected, you know, the plan for our campaign. >> wow. more than six months, if you can believe it. >> it's been a long time. >> of that kind of dealing with the e-mail scandal. i think we have a change this morning. >> well, i do. she's now saying that she's

sorry. no, she's saying, i haven't seen it yet, either, but she's saying she's sorry for her decision to use -- >> no. >> well, let's just say this, i haven't seen it, but it's got to be really exciting. >> i mean, it's sort of like finally turning a page, right? >> right? >> turning a page. >> build the campaign, move up. it's got to be massive. >> that's huge. >> it's got to be like the end of, like, a dramatic movie. >> i don't know. i would think so. i finally, i think it'll be great. turn the page. >> like the end of this movie. alex, do you have a movie? >> oh, hello, mr. bank examiner. i know, $8,000. i'll bet it's a warrant for my arrest. >> something like this, mike barnicle where you wait for 3 1/2 hours and get a massive payoff. >> that's why we buy the tickets, walk out of the theater

with a smile. >> so let's see this. >> finally. >> climactic ending to hillary clinton and the dragging and the finally apologizing. let's watch. see how it went. >> what i had done was allowed. it was above board. but, in retrospect, certainly, as i look back at it now, even though it was allowed, i should have used two accounts. one for personal, one for work-related e-mails. that was a mistake. i'm sorry about that. i take responsibility. >> well, when are we going to see the real ending? >> i think she did it on -- >> just do the end of it. hold on a second. listen to how flat the voice is at the end. seriously, this was a hostage video. right? was it? i mean, here we go. here we go. >> what i had done was allowed.

it was above board. but, in retrospect, certainly, as i look back at it now, even though it was allowed, i should have used two accounts. one for personal, one for work-related e-mails. that was a mistake. i'm sorry about that. i take responsibility. >> did they cut out the part where she said today that, okay, are you happy now? >> well, she tried again on "the ellen show." >> i bet that was better. >> that's going to air on thursday. but here's a look. >> yeah. >> let's talk about the e-mails. >> okay. >> okay. what? >> what? well, i want people to understand this. so i'm glad you asked. i used a personal e-mail account, it was allowed by the state department. but i should've used two different accounts. i made a mistake, and i'm sorry for all the confusion that has ensued. i take responsibility for that.

>> i'm sorry. it looked -- i've got to say, it read a lot better in the "washington post" breaking news alert. she says it with the flattest -- >> maybe her facebook page. posted an apology on social media late last night. >> we're not being difficult. it's flat. >> writing on her facebook page, she made a mistake by using only a private e-mail. she quote, could've and should've done a better job of answering questions earlier. i don't know, she keeps saying it was allowed and allowed and allowed and allowed and allowed. john heilemann, was it allowed? >> first of all, she apologized. but it's obviously pushed to the edge of a cliff to apologize. >> kicking and screaming. >> which, if you're kicking and

screaming but you apologize finally, that's fine. but here, i don't know. >> well -- >> maybe we're just being too tough on hillary clinton. >> we're being snarky. >> it sounds like it was the flattest. >> you're worried about the tone of the apology? >> well, a little bit like -- like oh, god, i get it now. >> i think she was pushed in this direction. >> feels like that. >> but i'm more with you. less about her tone with the allowed and the semantic game. there was a state department policy nine months into her term that said it was not allowed. everything had to be captured on state department servers, and all of her e-mails were not captured. >> it was not allowed. >> it was certainly not allowed. >> was it allowed? >> nine months and the obama administration said, like willie said, all e-mails had to be captured on the state department server. >> thank you for reporting the honest truth. >> i feel like we've said this now a hundred times. >> but hillary clinton -- >> she's continuing to argue

that she's allowed to have a personal e-mail account. she was allowed to have a personal e-mail account. the way she managed it was not allowed by the standards of the administration. >> for national security reasons, correct? >> yes. and i think that point is beyond dispute. to me, what's interesting about this is two things. one, think about the tone point. look. she did what you want her to do. she's finally apologized. if you look at the tone that she had, she told the snapchat joke. you think about the verve with which she told it. that was from the heart. there's this sarcastic and kind of dismissive. but it was real. when she told that joke, she enjoyed telling that joke. yesterday, she did not enjoy apologizing. >> yeah. >> the other thing, the point she's now gotten to does suggest that everything she's said previously about the fact that no one's paying attention and

hasn't affected my campaign, none of this has mattered, no one cares, that has all been a lie. the truth is, if no one was paying attention and the focus groups weren't telling them what they were telling them and the polling wasn't showing what it was showing, she would never have done what she did yesterday. yesterday was an admission that, yes, in fact, people are paying attention, it is afrifecting he standing with democrats, with the country. it's a problem for her. >> and by the way, guess what, she's day careentaken a little down the road. tone does matter. >> heart matters. >> and mike, between you and me, we have more children than a lot of small countries. we know when our children are forced to apologize. and we know when they mean it, we know when they don't mean it. tone does matter. why does it matter? because you get an understanding of whether the person gets what they did was wrong. or, you know, to our significant others saying that we're sorry. you know, there's a b.s.

detector that tells our significant others, we're saying we're sorry, but we don't really mean it. >> yeah. always knows that. >> you're just saying you're sorry. but here, again, it's almost as if. and this is the point. and listen to just the end of it. we're not going to play it, again. but at home, it's almost as if she purposefully said it as quickly and as flatly and as -- >> unwillingly. >> -- unwillingly as humanly possible. >> well, like us, quite often, you say you're sorry when you get yourself in a difficult situation with your spouse or whatever hoping that the apology will make the issue go away. i'm sure that's what she hopes. but that's not going to happen. the issue is not going to go away. the issue is larger than the e-mail now. the issue is being drawn to these apologies. the issue is the whole 20, 25 years of luggage that the

clintons bring to each day. >> well, it's also the hearings coming up. and quite frankly on capitol hill, a big push to get this guy who set up the server to plead the fifth. they want to hear from him. and he doesn't want to talk, which, again -- >> i don't blame him. >> who blames him? and by the way, again, this is simple. now she's taking it one step further down the road. now, you apologize. and sound sincere. that's a good next step. >> so clinton also spoke about rebuilding trust with the american people. and choked up while talking about her mother. >> i cherish and love this country. it gave me opportunities far beyond anything my mother or father could've had. she told me every day, you've got to get up and fight for what you believe in no matter how hard it is. i think about her a lot. and i remember that.

i can have a perfectly fine life not being president. i'm going to fight for all the people like my mother who need somebody in their corner and need a leader who cares about them, again. so that's what i'm going to try to do. >> clinton is also bringing humor to her campaign. this is something the campaign said they'd be showing more of. she started with dancing on "ellen" and to beyonce and jay-z's music. the full interview airs on thursday. clinton also announced she'll be appearing on the "tonight show" with jimmy fallon next week on the night of the republican's second debate. president obama's former senior adviser david axelrod tweeted this. quote, today's "new york times" story on hrc reads more like "the onion." her detailed plan to show more authenticity and spontaneity, #justdoit.

>> some of these clips, will through, look like they're out of the latest season of "veep." they really do. they look like they're out of the latest season of "veep." down to the dancing, everything. you can't -- you can make this up because the producers of "veep" made this up. >> to be clear, the dance she was doing was the whip nae-nae dance, silento. especially when it comes on the same day there was a front page story that said we're going to show more humor and heart, and that day, you see more humor and heart. looks more scripted. obviously, when she's talking about her mother, that's insere. sincere. >> of course it was. >> it looks a little choreographed. >> when does bill clinton become really involved in this campaign? >> very soon. >> tomorrow. >> you think so? >> soon. >> yeah.

>> if not already. >> look. >> you know, this whole thing is reminiscent of, and i don't know if you'll have long enough memories, i'm sure you do. but back in december of 2007, when she was in huge trouble in iowa, just coming into the iowa caucuses. >> right. >> in the middle of that month, the campaign went to the "new york times" and said that hillary was going to go around iowa, and go on what they call the likability tour. and she was going to fly around iowa to demonstrate to the people of iowa she was likable. and it was one of the most ham handed things you ever saw. what i'm going to do now is go around and -- you don't think i'm likable. i'm going to show you how likable i am. that's the same thing as spontaneity and humor offensive. when you announce, hey, i'm going to be on a likability tour. it suggests that -- >> a way to describe this weekend, it's all so ham-fisted. >> and i'm going to say, i think

she can do ten times better than this. i really do. i've seen it, i know it. i know it's in her. and i want it to work for her, which is frustrating. but there's a couple of things they cannot get around. and that is being overly controlling to the point of freakish. even andrea mitchell on this show yesterday had to tell us that they only gave her 12 minutes. so did "ellen" get more because it was ellen and it was going to be fun? you know what, have an interview. have, you know what, to do an interview, get it done. get it done, it'll be fine. she's really talented. she's been doing this for a long time. her campaign is tripping her up. >> they're doing the same exact thing they did in 2007. >> i've never seen. >> while she was losing. >> 12 minutes? >> i can't believe they are working to blow her second shot at the white house by doing the

same thing she did in 2007, and it took barack obama pushing her up against the wall where she had to win every state for her to relax. >> go with her gut. >> to go with her gut. and to stop being programmed like a robot. >> and the network shouldn't allow this. i'm sorry for all of us. >> and i'll say the last thing about this i think is fascinating is that, it's not, it's all different people now. it's not like the same group of people from that campaign. it's a different group of people. it was all going to be different this time because the team was going to be different. yet, it's very much the same. so suggests the issue isn't about the people around her, but about her. >> from your knowledge of the internals of the campaign right now, are the people around her just too afraid to approach her and say, hey, this is stupid what we're doing. you've got to do this, a, b and

c. is everyone afraid or in awe of her in their approach to her? >> i think there is a -- there's a -- it's neither one of those things. it's not, obviously none of these people are dumb. i think none of them are exactly afraid of her, but it is, i think there's -- it's hard to reach her. it's hard to reach her because she comes with so many concentric circles of people who have been around her for so long that for new people to come in and be able to breakthrough and pierce that. is not as possible for new people. >> alex tells me, willie, that the interview was 30, but at 12 minutes, andrea felt like they were going to pull it because she was talking about the e-mail controversy. controlling the, like, closing in on reporters that might veer too far into the abyss of

frightening controversy. >> selfishly as journalists, we wish every candidate had the donald trump approach to an interview. ask me what you want. >> a lot of them do. >> they do. >> i think we have another one coming here today. >> one thing to point out as we digest this and there are more problems and questions, a new poll out yesterday. hillary clinton's favorability within the democratic party, 71% unfavorable, 17%. she still has a 20-point lead. people are still rooting for her, still like her. she's very well maybe the nominee, may be the president of the united states, but she's got a lot of questions to answer. >> i saw last night a poll on "hardball" where she's lost 10 percentage points, gone from 52 to 42 in the democratic party, as well. favorabilities are still high, and she's still, i think, is odds-on favorite to not only win the democratic nomination, but given the state of the republican party right now, yeah, that's what i saw last night. here's hillary. if you're any candidate in

america running for any race in america and at 52% last month and 42% this month, there is something terribly wrong. and there is something about that 40 level. hillary does not want to drop any more. does not want to get into the 30s. because that's when the al gores of the world and john kerrys of the world and joe bidens think, she's in the 30s, it's time to move. >> it is true, her problem is greater with elites than it is with voters. joe biden, not in the race. and if you win back, again, and i keep going back to eight years ago, she was more than 20 points ahead of barack obama in national polling in september of 2007. and yet, things change really fast in the course of that fall. and she's 20 points ahead of a guy not in the race. i'd be a little concerned about that if i were here. >> all right. we've got a couple of other

political stories we'll hit on later. jeb bush was on colbert, ben carson cries, maybe something he can do better than others are saying. also, still ahead on "morning joe," mike huckabee joins us. plus, former nypd commissioner ray kelly will be here onset. tough words on how mayor de blasio is running the city. wow, everyone's closing in on the mayor. and later, buzz bissinger is marking 25 years since the release of his book "friday night lights." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. just might be the one. to clean the oceans, to start a movement, or lead a country. it may not be obvious yet, but one of these kids is going to change the world.

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your poster and campaign poster is just "jeb!" >> it connotes excitement.

>> jeb! how many of us when we got excited about things didn't just go, jeb! >> all in florida, they do, when they see me. most of them out of happiness or deep anger. that was jeb bush. i've been saying this about the exclamation point. i said it. i said. >> yeah. but i've been saying to you, he's had that since 1994. >> you can't connote excitement if you're not exciting. connote something else. jeb! dot, dot, dot. >> oh. >> colon. >> oh, i like it. >> what is it with the exclamation point? no. >> it's worked in the past, it'll probably work in the -- >> it's not working right now. he needs dot, dot, dot. >> you know what -- >> what? >> question mark. >> yes, he does. major. >> mike? >> yeah. >> yeah. and yours is a whole bunch of different symbols.

okay. presidential candidate ben carson is calling for guest worker status for many undocumented immigrants already in america. and, yesterday, he took a shot at front-runner donald trump. >> it sounds really cool, you know. let's just round them all up and send them back. people who say that have no idea what that would entail, in terms of our legal system, the costs. forget about it. >> carson's rise in the polls has been slow but steady. now, in second in the latest nbc news poll in iowa. and he had this emotional moment while discussing his grass roots ground swell. >> we have over 400,000 donations. and the average donation is o y only, you know, around $50. you know, some of the letters are so poignant. you know, people on fixed incomes, and they say, you know,

i can only afford to send $25 this month. but they say, next month, i'm going to send you $25, again. and the next month, i'm going to send you $25, again. and i've got to tell you, i did not want to disappoint those people. i certainly don't want to waste their money. >> well, that is a different approach. obviously we've heard a lot of people talk about the tone being much different. ben carson, than donald trump. >> you know, he's such a nice man. but i -- i am stunned at those poll numbers. i am just stunned. >> i am, too. >> well, he speaks from the heart. >> look at that. >> i know. >> 6% for jeb bush. 4% for ted cruz. >> got to invite ben carson to

come on here. >> what is going on out there? >> it is a good question, willie. >> he's got an incredible personal story, too, that not enough people know about. i suspect if he were a democrat, there would have been long, weepy pieces about him. grew up in poverty in detroit to a single mother, went on to become one of the most preeminent neurosurgeons in the country. movies made about his career and life. i think people are going to start paying closer attention to ben carson. he said crazy stuff. compared the affordable care act to slavism and naziism and things like that. but he's got a compelling personal story. and like you say, a different tone than any other politician. >> well, he's not a politician. >> well, that's what's so -- it's hard to square that, i mean, the clip we just saw with a guy who compares obamacare to slavery and the u.s. to nazi germany. you know, that's the, the latter

sounds like a fire-breathing tea party trump-ish kind of person. and you see him in that humble, soft spoken, affecting way. >> yeah. >> there's something, there's an interesting tension there. >> but, you know, what surprises me is that eight years after republicans criticized the democratic party for choosing a glorified state senator who we all said was ill-equipped to be president of the united states and who i believe the past eight years have proved barack obama was ill-equipped to be president of the united states. just like i've said marco rubio would not be ready to be president of the united states because he just got into the senate. and, you can say the same thing about ted cruz and rand paul. you know, they get to washington, immediately they're running for president of the united states. i'm stunned that the republican party. that the republican base is now selected three people at this time in american history with foreign policy more in shambles than it's ever been in shambles before.

and with the national debt being, what, $18 trillion, $19 trillion now. with all of our crises, our federal government being a failed state, the v.a., more people dying waiting to get on v.a. rolls than died in every war after world war ii that you're going to send novices to washington, d.c.? i mean, at least have one person that served more than one day in the government in the top three. i know it's a democracy. i know it's a constitutional republic. i know this is the way it works, but ben carson? i mean, and -- donald trump's never served a day. carly fiorina's never served a day. and you're hearing 65%, 70% of republicans saying we don't want anybody who has ever spent a day in washington, d.c. and it's just a little

off-putting. i'm not saying they can't be great presidents, i'm looking at the party as a whole. >> i agree. i hope biden jumps in. >> well, it'd be like -- it would be like wanting, you know, yeah, i had a friend that had a botched brain operation. so, i don't want a brain surgeon that's never operated on anyone. >> well. >> well, it's the same thing. look at barack obama. he doesn't know how to work washington, d.c. he doesn't know how to do it. he goes to american university, and instead of trying to bring people together on the iran deal, he insults them. why? because he hasn't been in washington long enough to know that you probably, when you're dealing with one of the most important agreements in recent american history, you don't go out and spent yod your days aggravating the other side and suggesting chuck schumer is on the same side as radicals in the streets of tehran screaming

"death to america." that comes from inexperience and not knowing how washington works. >> or it comes from having a republican party that has literally gotten in front of you every step of the way in terms of dealing with iran, undermined you, brought the leader of israel over, basically given him kind of not a lot of options. >> chuck schumer didn't do that. >> okay. >> other democrats didn't do that. he said, this is the easiest decision ever, and it's black and white. no, it's not. but when you come out from outside of washington and you never have to deal with the frustrations of washington, d.c., that's how you run the country. and it's not always good, mike, and we have historical precedence. >> yeah, but if you go back and look at the interview. read the interview he did with mark maran and the garage this spring. there's a lot in there that points to where he is today in the route that barack obama has taken. at one point during the interview, he says he's now fearless because of what he's dealt with in washington.

as soon as he took the oath of office in january 20th, he could've said, you know, we're going to propose, there's going to be sunshine every day. and he had a republican party led by mitch mcconnell then who said we're going to do everything we can to make him a one-term president. and he's had to fight that every single day. and so his frustration at governing has been visible, nearly every day in office. and, okay, he makes a speech in american university. a lot of democrats were unhappy with that speech. a lot of democrats were unhappy with that speech. he is where he is today, has the votes to shut it down in the senate. i assume he's probably saying to himself. >> mitch mcconnell has said, if you work with us, we'll be glad to work with him, as well. and he has the votes to shut it down. yeah, he has the votes to shut it down. he's got right now. i don't know if we have the polls, alex, but the overwhelming majority of the american public against this deal, 2-1. a large number believing that iran's going to cheat on the

deal. and he's going to pass the most significant plan in foreign policy in, i don't know, 20, 25 years? there we go, 49% of americans disapprove, 21%, approve. and so, he's going to -- this is how you pass the most important bill? instead of bringing people together? divide people and say you're either for me or, no, i'm talking about, what, i'm talking about the american people here. i'm not just talking about republicans. 70% are not confident that iran's going to comply with a nuclear deal. if he'd spent less time comparing chuck schumer with terrorists chanting "death to america" in iran, maybe the numbers would be different. >> i think it'd be hard to, at this point. there was a period of time where you could certainly claim that barack obama did not understand the ways of washington in the early part of his administration. i think just at this point, he's seven years in. i think he's been president for

that long and seen what he's seen. >> right. >> i don't think inexperience, whatever critique you want to level against him. it's not that he doesn't understand the levers of how power works in washington. he has a theory of the case, which is the theory that mike is putting forward. and he, again, you could argue with it it's wrong. >> it's not now based on inexperience. >> it's the same theory. it's i'm right and everybody else is wrong. and you talked to former aides, and they will tell you the greatest frustration is that he comes to a conclusion and says i'm right and i'm going to wait for the entire world to come to me. that's not how washington works. that's why getting people who don't know how washington works is sometimes a problem. john, go ahead. >> alex says i have to -- >> i know. but i interrupted you. >> pretty much the entire republican party came out against it before they had read it. so i'm not sure that, i think you're right. >> it's a hard point. >> in terms of public

persuasion, he could've done more. in terms of bringing republicans over, no the clear he could've done anything more. >> elizabeth warren on "the view." she's not running or anything, but on "the view," parallels with donald trump. up next, county clerk kim davis is released five days after being sent to jail for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses. this was an incredible thing to watch. >> a spectacle. >> how she will influence conservative voters in 2016. cbn's chief political correspondent is joining us live from kentucky. it was somewhat of a campaign event, as well. we'll have that. >> speaking of which, mike huckabee's going to be here later. for these parents, driving around was the only way... ...to get their baby to sleep. so when their windshield got cracked, we can't drive this car they wanted it fixed right... ...so they scheduled with safelite. our exclusive trueseal technololgy means a strong... ...reliable bond, every time. at safelite we stand behind our work...

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♪ i just want to give god the glory. his people have rallied. and you are a strong people! we serve a living god who knows exactly where each and every one of us is at. just keep on pressing. don't let down, because he is here. >> that was kim davis yesterday in kentucky. the rally exposed how some of the republican presidential candidates are jockeying to gain support by defending her. this video appears to show an

aide to mike huckabee blocking senator ted cruz from approaching the microphones. the "new york times" reported cruz appeared to be, quote, incredulous. >> they're not letting him on stage? >> it allowed huckabee. >> i thought this was about jesus. why wouldn't they let ted cruz on? >> it allowed huckabee to share the spotlight with her alone and continue to defend her while -- oh, my god. while others said their time. >> they blocked ted cruz from going out there? shouldn't we all, if this is about jesus, shouldn't everybody celebrate it? >> oh, this might have been about mike huckabee. >> others said their time was spent on more pressing issues. take a listen. >> somebody needs to go to jail. i'm willing to go in her place. and i mean that. i'm tired of watching people being just harassed because they believe something of their

faith. and we cannot criminalize the christian faith or anybody's faith in this country. >> i believe in traditional marriage. but i've said i was going to accept the court's decision. everybody's entitled to their opinion. and i love mike huckabee and what he stands for, but i think there's bigger fish to try here in terms of the issue of people understanding what faith in god really means. >> so with us for more, the chief political correspondent for cbn news. i understand you were sitting to talk to davis' attorney when you all both suddenly learned that kim davis was being released from jail. tell us about it. >> yeah, we were trying to get exclusive footage with him specifically, and one of his aides whispered and said, hey, kim davis has just been released from jail. and matt staver looked at him

and said, what? and i heard their conversation. and, of course, we here at the show, we went into full stalking mode. >> what was this event, exactly? the music was played by who? because it might have sound like music we -- that was actually there. "eye of the tiger." >> like a pep rally, right? >> and all of a sudden mike huckabee there. can you explain, was this a campaign rally? an event? what happened? >> it was billed in essence, his campaign organized this. some other folks on stage were part of the event. but mike huckabee's campaign organized it. let's step back for a few, for a moment here. this was arranged about three, four days before this. and there was a whole big inner workings of this as to who was going to speak and all of that.

it's interesting. here's a backstory for you. i'm on my way to charleston, west virginia, to get to kentucky, and i see a campaign aide for ted cruz on the flight. and i'm like, oh, this is interesting. and, indeed, ted cruz, as we know, came down to the event. there was no expectation he would speak at the rally at all. but he wanted to be there. and, indeed, he was. and it's interesting, there i am on the media riser. and i look behind me, and there's ted cruz doing a press conference with about 75 or so reporters during the actual rally. i'm not sure if huckabee was on stage at the time. i think he was for part of it. it was interesting. >> by the way, we're looking at pictures of ted cruz being kept off the stage. so ted shows more restraint than i do. but it looks like they blocked ted cruz from going on stage. >> well, let's just be clear about this. you say on stage. it may not have actually been on stage. the cruz folks are telling me

there was never any expectation he was going to go on stage and speak. i think what he was being blocked from, and once again, no confirmation of this. seems like he was being more blocked from addressing the reporters right there next to the stage and that's why he had to move around behind the riser. >> there was a little confusion about that. >> wow. very interesting. david brody, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. that is one of the more surreal events of -- >> so what was? >> how can you say this about this campaign season? but that was one of the more surreal events. >> important to point out, the front man for survivor who sings "eye of the tiger," not happy about the use of the song. kim davis is an elected official free to go back to work. >> right. >> the judge has said other clerks need to issue the licenses now. but if she's there, will she again make that stand and say i'm going to step in here based on my religious leafs?

beliefs? >> she's going to continue. and i don't think -- i'm a little bit nervous about this. that was weird. we're going to speak live with mike huckabee in our 8:00 hour and ask him about that. up next, senator tim kaine and ian bremner are standing by. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." ideas are scary. they come into this world ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are.

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how much prot18%?does your dog food have? 20? nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna has 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. in just a few hours, presidential hopefuls, donald trump and ted cruz will uphold a rally to oppose a nuclear deal in d.c. it comes as four more senators have announced the support for the deal bringing the total number to 42. one more than needed to block the senate from passing a resolution disapproving the agreement. and joining us now, president

and founder of eurasia group, and editor at large for "time" magazine ian bremner, and member of the armed services and foreign relations committee, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. good to have you both on board this hour. ian, what, you know, we were talking a little bit about the president's handling of sort of the concept that people see from the outside. the polls, or whatever. but he has gotten this done. he's gotten this deal through. not without a lot of pain along the way, but isn't that part of the process? >> absolutely. and six months ago, we're talking about obama's foreign policy, and you'd said the legacy was negative almost across the board. now, he's got a number of wins. the trade promotion authority got down. he's on track to finish this big trade deal with the pacific allies. you saw, of course, the cuba opening. now you've got the iran deal and his last africa trip was probably the best single international trip he's had over

the course of his administration. i do think this means that this china summit coming up is going to be a lot tougher than the chinese expect. because he does want to show he has more strength on foreign issues. >> senator, how concerned are you that the president's going to have this become a law? this iran deal, despite the fact that he's not going to get half the support in congress and that americans oppose the deal according to a new pew poll by more than 2-1 margin? >> joe, doing diplomacy with friends is hard. and doing diplomacies with adversaries is even tougher. remember when truman said we're going to invest billions and rebuild the economies of japan and germany, that was controversial. when kennedy tried to negotiate the nuclear test ban treaty with the soviet union, that was controversial. when nixon said let's go to china, that was controversial. this was very difficult stuff. but great presidents in america

have often decided that tomorrow is more important than yester y yesterday, and you've got to do tough diplomacy even with adversaries. in this case, diplomacy that will deprive iran of a nuclear weapon for at least 15 years or more is something that's worth doing. and that's why -- >> can you recall any time that any foreign policy measure this important, this sweeping as david ignatius said this much of a cosmic bet was so unpopular with the american people? i just can't, can you? >> look, i think the opening to china would have been unpopular at the time. the plan to rebuild germany and japan was controversial at the time. i know this, when kennedy was negotiating the test ban treaty with the soviet union after the cuban missile crisis, hugely unpopular. that's why he gave that famous speech at american university. this is a very difficult thing to do. but, you know, for me, all you've got to do is look at the status quo. i'm not even thinking about

alternatives. the status quo was an iranian nuclear program rocketing ahead nearly 20,000 secentrifuges. for at least 15 years, in my view, this is a dramatic improvement over the status quo. it's not perfect because no compromise or concession is. but it is dramatically better than what we had, certainly better than the path that vice president cheney, you know, laid out yesterday. the track record of that path followed the cheney doctrine, and you ended up with expanding and accelerating iranian nuclear program. that's the last thing we need to do for the u.s. or our allies. >> as you sat with the balance sheet weighing the pros and cons, you said one of the cons was what might happen in 10 or 15 years. what are those specific concerns? what are you worried what might happen a decade from now? >> right. so willie, really quickly. the cap's in place on the plutonium facility, enriched uranium.

and also, the inspections regime is very strong. what happens after you're 15, as you know, some of the caps start to come off. enhanced inspections stay on through year 25. after year 25, basically, iran is only then subject to the terms of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, which includes inspections, and inspections we haven't had before. as the caps start to come off after year 15, we enter into a more challenging period. but 15 years is a long time. and 15, you know, even the critics of the deal. here's what they're saying. they were saying iran is months away from a nuclear weapon. now, they're saying they don't like the deal because in 15 years, iran could be months away from a nuclear weapon. 15 years of peace is worth diplomacy. and more importantly, as a member of the armed services committee, i want to hold out the ability to use a military threat. doing diplomacy gives us more of a military threat because we'll be able to do inspections that

will give us better intel. and we have a coalition together around us doing diplomacy first. and we should always do do diplomacy first. that enhances our military threat. >> senator tim kaine. thanks so much for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. >> absolutely. >> you know, i wanted to ask senator kaine the following question, he had to go, but tim kaine, the pope is coming to washington, in a very few days. this great moral issue that we have in front of us, the world has in front of us, the pope speaking about mercy. we have a flood of refugees in europe. very few public people in this country are speaking to this issue or addressing this issue. why? >> well, the immigration issue that has come to the fore is, of course, about building a wall with mexico, as i'm sure you know. the chinese, have a large number of immigrants. it's not the wall that protects us, it's the oceans that protect

us. it's really hard to swim from syria to the united states. it's really easy to get to europe. and you've got 4 million refugees in syria right now from syria. overwhelming, 95% of them are in turkey, they're in iraq, they're in jordan, lebanon, and 5% are starting to make it to europe. you're seeing the pictures, and now we're all up in arms because that issue is just starting to affect europe. wait until next year. we're not going to have to deal with this and probably won't, frankly. >> ian bremner, thank you for being on this morning. coming up, ray kelly joins the table. what he's blaming bill de blasio for an increase in homicides. special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries. the microsoft cloud allows us to immediately be able to access information, wherever we are. information for an athlete's medical care, or information

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coming up at the top of the hour. the day many thought would never happen. hillary clinton says she's sorry for using a private e-mail server. unfortunately, her style was off. maybe it does matter in politics. we'll ask that question. and could that have anything to do with another poll shows vice president joe biden surging? plus, what do democrats think of a possible biden/warren ticket? a new era begins in "late night." keep it here on "morning joe." when your windshield needs fixed, trust safelite.

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i know there have been questions about my e-mail. so i want to address that directly. looking back, it would have been better if i'd simply used a second e-mail account and carried a second phone. but at the time, this didn't seem like an issue. >> i think there's so much confusion around this that i understand why reporters and the public are, you know, asking questions. but the facts are pretty clear. >> you may have seen i recently launched a snapchat account. i love it. those messages disappear all by themselves. >> i mean, in retrospect, what was supposed to be convenient

has turned out to be anything but convenient. >> you were in charge of it. did you wipe the server? >> what? like with a cloth or something? well, no. >> nobody talks to me about it. >> you said recently that using your personal e-mail while you were secretary of state was not the best choice and you take responsibility. are you sorry? >> well, i certainly wish that i had made a different choice. and i know why the american people have questions about it. but in retrospect, it certainly would have been better. i take responsibility. >> are you sorry? do you want to apologize to the american people for the choice you made? >> well, it wasn't the best choice. >> it's a distraction, certainly. but, it has want in any way affected, you know, the plan for our campaign. >> welcome back. >> it hasn't affected the plan for our campaign. even as she towards an apology, she can't tell the truth. >> welcome back.

>> i say it as somebody who likes her. i like her, but -- you want your kids to tell the truth. and they just -- and you're like, i know the truth, just -- i've had this conversation with one of my four kids. >> walter isaacson. >> just tell the truth. it'll be easier to tell the truth. she can't do it. >> also in washington, nbc news political director and moderator of "meet the press," chuck todd. >> she just can't do it. >> can she do it, chuck? >> well, it depends on your definition of what an apology is. >> oh, my god. >> yeah, exactly. >> i'm trying to -- i think she's sorry it's become this huge story right now. >> yeah. >> you can't help -- you can't help but look at it that way. six months ago, she didn't view the story that way. she views it this way now after six months of political pain. >> all right. so we're surrounded by some of the smartest political pros, chuck todd, of course, walter

isaacson, john heilemann, tv's own willie geist, the great willie geist. you guys have been around, seen it all, willie, of course, you've worked on wendell wilkie's campaign. >> yeah. >> he actually looks like wendell wilkie. >> i get that a lot. >> he does get that a lot. the kids, he's walking down the street, you know, you look like -- >> who? >> wendell wilkie. >> deep cultural reference. >> all of you political pros, between you thousands of campaigns you've followed, let's look at this apology that hillary gave yesterday and see if it was as moving for you all as it was for me. go ahead, run it. >> that was a mistake, i'm sorry about that, i take responsibility. >> does it move you, walter isaacson? does the page now turn? >> well, you know, you made a good point a minute ago, which is, whenever she's asked something you don't feel she's going directly to the most honest answer. you feel she's kind of calculating what's the best

answer in that situation. and i think even to take minor examples. i remember she was in the iowa state fair. trump's helicopter comes circling in and everything and, you know, landing and what did you think of trump's helicopter? and she said, oh, i didn't notice it. i was talking to these wonderful people. no you should make a joke and say, yeah, man, that helicopter, it's been circling all over. she could change her campaign a little bit by stunning everybody by being brutally honest. there have been stories, you know, fictional stories written about characters who suddenly tell the truth all the time. and it's usually a bit tricky. but in politics, that would be such a refreshing change. if every time you asked her a question, she gave an absolute honest answer. >> you're telling, she's not telling the truth up until now? >> i'm saying, like, most politicians, she's calculating what's the best answer as opposed to quickly saying, all right, what's the truth?

what can i really tell here? and i think you could surprise people. i mean, you see it on the show, with everybody you deal with. >> every day. >> every now and then, you find somebody who surprises you by their absolute honesty, and i think that's the best antidote to the situation. >> i'll say, all the candidates come through here. i will say, over the past eight years. i've never seen a candidate have as much trouble getting to the truth, john heilemann, as hillary clinton has on this e-mail situation. and, it is costing her at least right now in september, in the polls, another poll out yesterday among democrats, her approval drops from 52% in august to 42% now. >> people have a perception she's not being straightforward and not being fully disclosive about everything that happened, why she did what she did. the core question remains, why. and she still hasn't answered that question. and to me, we discussed her tone

on this apology at some length this morning. how forced it felt. and all seems to me secondary to getting to the answers to the core questions people have. why a private server in your home? why? >> it did have a feeling of you want to apologize? unfortunately for her, there's many, many more questions that have to be answered. e-mails that will come out once a month for the foreseeable future. this is not an issue that will go away with a single apology. >> no, and it did feel like this is the correct answer that this is the, i think, walter was putting it. this is what she is saying. democratic activists want to hear from her. the e-mail was the same way. she is in a negative feedback loop. as she tries to move on, there'll be a series of e-mails

that come out, that's a week worth of distilling the e-mails. then, of course, she's got the october testimony. there's not going to be until january that there is no new e-mail information. she's got to figure how to get out of. >> she also apologized at a taping of the "ellen" show yesterday that's going to air on thursday. >> let's talk about the e-mails. >> okay. >> okay. what? >> what? well, i want people to understand this. so i'm glad you asked. i used a personal e-mail account. it was allowed by the state department. but i should've used two different accounts. i made a mistake, and i'm sorry for all the confusion that has ensued. i take responsibility for that. >> clinton also posted an apology on social media late last night writing on her facebook page that she made a mistake by using only private

e-mail, and that she could, quote, should've would've done a better job answering questions. >> wrote this this morning, sorry for what hillary? and he said, an apology doesn't fix it. an apology doesn't answer the most important questions. wrote up 16? >> 19, i think. >> 19 questions. i'll read the first. while apologizing on tuesday, you said, what i did was allowed, it was above board. ron writes, you know by now that the state department allowed use of home computers in 2009. but agency rules required they be secured. new regulations required your e-mails to be captured on department servers. you stashed yours on the home brewed system until congress found out. why not admit you violated policy? why do you keep misleading people? and there are 19 really difficult questions. really, mika, sort of answering your question as to why she doesn't go on an interview that's not controlled.

>> very controlled. andrea talked about at 12 minutes in feeling if she didn't get to another topic, they were going to end the interview. and it appears, i don't know what happened with abc, it appears all these interviews are very tightly, tightly controlled. and you're seeing other candidates on the republican side able to go on forever. clinton also spoke about rebuilding trust with the american people. and choked up while talking about her mother. take a look at this. >> i cherish and love this country. it gave me, you know, opportunities far beyond anything my mother or my father could've had. she told me every day, you've got to get up and fight for what you believe in no matter how hard it is. and i think about her a lot. i miss her a lot. i wish she were here with me. and i remember that. and i don't want to just fight for me. i mean, i can have a perfectly fine life not being president. i'm going to fight for all the people like my mother who need somebody in their corner. and they need a leader who cares about them again. so, that's what i'm going to try

to do. >> besides the heart, clinton is also bringing the humor to her campaign. this is something the campaign said they'd be showing more of. she started dancing on "ellen." also announced she'll be appearing on "tonight show" with jimmy fallon the night of the republican's second debate. >> you know, willie, we all laughed yesterday about how calculated this was. don't expect it after your aides say we're going to start having more fun she's dancing in the afternoon. it's something that david axelrod, president obama's former adviser picked up in a quote. he said today's "new york times" story more like "the onion," her detailed plan to show more authenticity and spontaneity. #justdoit. >> here's the thing, as you said earlier, and as we said many

times, mika, she is more than capable of showing humor and showing heart and spontaneity. she's talented, smart, impressive. all of those things. when you announce it first in such explicit terms and then deliver on it the same day. >> yeah. >> it all looks that much like stage craft. >> she's been doing this since 1978 when her husband first got elected governor of arkansas. >> what's going on? >> how can they be -- >> you know, john, it's the question. wipe doesn't she explain why she did this? that would be one of the authenticity things. look, this has been going on since '78. i got a server of my own because i wanted to protect my e-mail. i'm so used to people trying to get myself, make fun of what i've own done that i wanted to protect them. wouldn't you? and that's the honest answer. that's why she got that separate system. and i just think she ought to try explaining just in a, you know, sort of surprising such honest way. >> it's an honest answer and an

acceptable answer for most americans who would say, yeah, if they've been doing that since 1978. >> yeah. >> so i decided to bend the rules and get an e-mail server. if you were in my shoes, you could probably understand why i did it, i shouldn't have done it. >> that would shut most of it down. >> all right. donald trump and jeb bush are back at it again on social media. trump's latest instagram video. have you seen it? >> yes. >> okay. >> focuses on those two words he uses repeatedly to describe his republican rival. low energy. >> having trouble sleeping at night? too much energy? need some low energy? >> they have an hsa in some companies, some companies don't. but i think the norm ought to e be -- >> jeb, for all your sleeping needs. >> humor helps, too. >> humor helps, too. >> and that's a way, if you're

going to go after trump, i mean -- i was watching colbert last night, okay, if you can really get every joke in on trump, it probably deflates him. that's what obama did at one of those white house correspondents dinners. >> bush tweeted out a picture of him with a sleepy town hall attendee. said she's a working mother awake since 4:00 a.m. and later in the day hit back with an instagram video of his own. >> who would you like representing the united states in a deal with iran with this regime there? >> i think hillary would do a good job. she's always surrounded herself with very good people. >> all right. >> chuck todd, it goes on, jeb and trump and somehow seems like they're playing two completely different games.

>> i can't believe this is what the presidential campaign has been reduced to. the front-running candidate is making sleeping jokes. i mean, just, really? i mean, like this is -- this is what is high-minded political engagement in 2015. look, i don't know if what bush is doing is the right call. it doesn't -- it feels a little, i go back to something i said last week. it feels as if a whole bunch of donors said to him, you've got to keep on taking on trump, so they decided to take on trump to please sort of nervous supporters. it's not dissimilar to why did hillary clinton put up that e-mail yesterday and do that? nervous supporters wanted to hear the words, i'm sorry. it just feels like it's manufactured. and i don't know if that's going to work. >> but the high-minded political campaign thinkers may, may sneer at what trump is doing. but it's working. >> but if you think about one of

the things you're talking about. hillary before is the notion that how much of this is the people around her, the advice she's getting versus just who she is, how she -- what her character is as a political performer. i think there's a similar thing going on with jeb bush. he has advisers, strategists, people telling him what to do. there's no question that this attack that trump has keyed on, low energy, which to me has always sounded like he's calling jeb bush the low "t" candidate. this is another way for jeb, for trump to assert his alpha male superiority over jeb. >> emasculate. >> to emasculate him as steve schmidt said on this air a week ago. i think it's gotten under his skin. it's not his advisers say you've got to hit back. jeb is annoyed. and this has gotten, it irks him, digs at him, and i think he's fully engaged.

however this back and forth is, it's not a manufacture and consultant driven thing, it's a personal thing now for jeb. >> yeah, jeb's shown us all it's gotten under his skin. >> you know, what got under his father's skin, it was "newsweek." >> same deal. >> same deal. >> but one of the things is, we were saying how horrible the campaign has gotten. gotten into these tweets of back and forth. to give them the credit, it's usually our fault on tv or the press, bush did put out a pretty interesti ining tax plan. >> he did. >> and hillary put out a good campaign finance plan, and hillary is doing an iran deal speech today that seems well reasoned. >> oh, no doubt about it. and you look at bush's tax plan. i think he cuts the top rate from 39 to 28%. he actually gets rid of carried interest. the bush people had been telling me for a long time, they were

going to get rid of carried interest long before donald trump talked about it. so you do have a part of that effort. >> major corporate deduction cut. >> yeah. a lot. and he cuts a lot of tax loopholes. this is actually going to be something of substance that when they do finally officially release everything about it, it actually may garner some attention, at least for 15 minutes. >> so yesterday on "the view," senator elizabeth warren may have given fuel to those who claim donald trump is not a conservative. >> there's a lot of points where he talks about important things. we both agree there ought to be more taxation of the billionaires. the people making their money. >> he must be driving the right wingers out of their mind. >> it is a pretty bright position. >> so in the last 48 hours, donald trump's economic policies have picked up the endorsement of paul krugman? >> yes. >> elizabeth warren. >> yes. >> and perhaps more importantly,

yesterday, warren buffet. >> yeah. >> who said, he said as i look at donald trump's views on the economy, i'm not sure i can find much i disagree with. interesting. >> that'll help with the base. >> i would like to hear. i would like to hear whether, buffet was talking about trump's tax plan. >> right. >> i'd be curious to know what he thinks of trump's use on trade. i'm not 100% sure warren buffett will be for the 25% import duties on chinese goods. >> but, chuck todd, that's quite a triumpha when you're talking about elizabeth warren, warren buffett supporting your tax plan for the republican base. or at least, maybe as paul krugman would say, the republican establishment, because the republican base actually seems to support it. >> yes. thank you. >> i was going to say, there's a difference. this is, you know, there's been this assumption that the republican party is this always

low-tax party, pro-business party. but it's become more working class over the last decade and a half. right? as we've seen this transition. >> yeah. >> this is a lot of republican voters, for instance, don't want to see their social security cut at all are very concerned about the idea of messing around with medicare. when you ask them about raising the minimum wage, they're for raising the minimum wage. and for taxing wall street, they're for taxing wall street. there's an us versus them mentality that i think we in the corridor forget about. and, look, mike huckabee tapped into these folks eight years ago with a similar populist message. and here we go again. and so, i don't. you know, i don't think this idea that bush -- and this is where i question bush's strategy and trump. bush is trying to say, hey, trump's not a real conservative, not a real republican. i don't think some republicans are going to view it that way. i think there's plenty of republicans who are going to say when trump is accused, well, used to be a democrat 20 years

ago. they're going to say, yeah, so was i. >> yeah, you know, i've talked to a lot of republican groups over the past quarter century. and unless they were in board rooms in manhattan, i've yet to find many that weren't just as pissed off at wall street as they were with washington, d.c. just as suspicious of big banks as they were of big government. just as suspicious of, you know, wall street as k street. donald trump actually in this respect has tapped into something, wallet ter, that the washington establishment has been blind to for a quarter century. republican supporters have become much more blue collar, much more working class over the past 20 years. >> we haven't seen this that since john connolly tried it 20, 30 years ago. it would be interesting to see if you could have a real populist nominee of the republican party. one who was against the banks and the billionaires.

>> all right. >> yeah. >> thank you so much. walter, stay with us, if you can. still ahead, did mike huckabee's campaign sideline one of his white house rivals at yesterday's rally for kim davis? the presidential contender weighs in live on "morning joe." we have a lot of questions for him. and up next, former new york city police commissioner ray kelly joins the table. his no holds barred view of mayor bill de blasio and his succe successor. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. one. to clean the oceans, to start a movement, or lead a country. it may not be obvious yet, but one of these kids is going to change the world. we just need to make sure she has what she needs. welcome to windows 10. the future starts now for all of us.

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now, i think the facts count for a lot. and i think if you talk to everyday new yorkers about their quality of life, what they're experiencing, people know it was the safest summer in 20 years because they're experiencing it. they're not feeling the effects of crime they used to. there are some neighborhoods where you have a profound problem. and i had tremendous respect for bill bratton. 1300 more cops coming, by the way, to help them o do that. this nypd is doing extraordinary things, and i believe this is going to get even safer. >> i'm just stunned as most

people in this area this has been the safest summer in new york. you know, no one else believes that except for the two people just on your set. i guarantee this, this guy doesn't believe it. nor do the other people. it's the liberal policies in the city that have led to the lawlessness. >> that was chris christie and bill de blasio on "morning joe" yesterday, which is now the longest serving police commissioner in new york city history. he's out with a new book called "vigilance," my life serving america and protecting its empire city. the "new york post" yesterday, mr. commissioner, showing a picture of chris christie who went after bill de blasio right after the segment. you do some of the same in this book. are we -- there's a perception that we are losing our way. is that perception or reality when it comes to fighting crime and homelessness in this city?

>> perception is reality in many ways. particularly in this city. this is feeling that the city is drifting. obviously, the optics of more homeless on the street contributes to that. but i think people have that sense. >> but bill de blasio says it's the safest summer on record. >> we've never measured it like that before. >> right. >> you know, we'll see. i don't know what the data is. >> isn't the data that the murder rate is up 8% at this point? >> it's up from where it was last year. >> right. >> but is it still -- >> from where they were in 2013, i think. >> his data -- sorry, mika, his data is these are the fewest homicides june through august. >> i don't know. and if that's true, that's good. we usually measure it by the year. it's up 8% this year. >> yeah, for the year. >> this is a new approach for doing business. and we'll see if it works. >> so talk about how mayor de

blasio. what changes have been made since you've left that concern you the most? >> well, it's difficult for me to say. i'm not getting briefed every day on what's going on in the department. but in this book, i talk about mayor de blasio's against the police department in 2013, his campaign. >> how did he do that? >> he did it by, i think, attacking tactics of the police stop and frisk, for instance. when the department had a 70% approval rating during 2013, my problem with mayor de blasio is that he, when he got elected mayor, he didn't go forward with an appeal on the stop and frisk case. which the judge on that case was removed from the case. and yet, he continued to go forward with it. i think it was bad luck. it was a bad decision.

it's a valuable tool that has to remain in the tool box. >> what is the tool supposed to accomplish? >> i think if you look at how it's written, it says if someone is abroad in a public place, a police officer sees suspicious activity and suspects crime is about to happen, is happening or has happened, he can intervene. obviously, it's meant to prevent crime and to arrest people ultimately or stop them from conducting their suspicious activity. >> and if, i'm just wondering because i think one of the accomplishments also was hoping to get guns off the streets. >> yes. >> in most cases, only about 1% of the people who were stopped and frisked actually had guns. >> well, it actually has a deterrent. very difficult to measure that. in the bloomberg administration, we had 9,500 fewer murders during the 12 years of michael bloomberg than we had in the 12

years previously. in 2013, we had record low shootings. record low murders, and record low shootings by police officers. and the department had 70% approval rating. i personally had the 75% approval rating. >> and by the way, i've got to say, the 1% figure actually proves that stop and frisk works because it is a deterrent. if you know that you're going to be stopped by police officers, you're going to bless likely to carry guns. if you're less likely to carry guns, the streets will be safer, they were safer, they have been safer. >> that's one way of looking at it, or as a lot of innocent people are getting shaken down and it's unconstitutional. there's two ways to look at it. >> depends on also what you define as innocent. i say in the book, an example of people -- obviously that's suspicious activity. you want the police officer to intervene. you stop that type of action. crime is prevented. no one's been arrested. >> yeah. so how -- talk about this book

and how it outlines, how new york city was turned around. >> well, it really is a memoir. so it's not just about what's going on in new york city now. it starts with -- >> yeah, but we're in new york, so we're self-centered. and then you can tell yours. let's start with that. that's in the center of the debate right now. >> it talks about mayor bloomberg coming in 3 1/2 months after 9/11. we knew we had to do something different as far as counterterrorism's concerned. we put in our own counterterrorism bureau. brought in experts from the federal government. we assigned police officers overseas to act as listing post trip wise for the nypd. we've had 16 during our watch, 16 attempted terrorist attacks here. as a result of good work on the part of the federal government, good work by nypd. none of them came to fruition. crime was down to record lows. and we had 6,000 fewer police officers than the previous administration had.

so, it sort of sums that up in that portion of the book. >> yeah. >> but it talks about my time in haiti, a little bit of my time in vietnam. i was undersecretary in the clinton administration. i was on the board of interpol. i was a boxing commissioner here. so i obviously can hold a job. >> a little bit of everything. >> what's your sense today of cops in the car? in the sense that they are in a city whereas you point out, it's your feeling that the mayor ran against the police department when you ran for election. there's been a sort of undercurrent of tension between the department and offices since then. and now you have videotaping of everything that a police officer does. you have the tragic incident in brooklyn, you've had two police officers assassinated in the -- in brooklyn. what's your sense of where the department is today in terms of the average patrolman? less reluctant to get out of the car when they see something?

more active? where are you? >> yeah, i think it's only common sense. they're more reluctant to get out. there's all sorts of signals that don't engage or engage in a lesser level than you have in the past. some of it is national, some of it is local. i think you'll see, you know, the rise in murders in 30 cit s cities, that's the so-called ferguson effect where cops are. less reluctant to engage in proactive policemen. that's more of an issue in new york. it's going to take some time to get over it. but it's -- >> there's a ferguson effect? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> what do you mean by that? what is the ferguson effect? >> well, you know, ironically, of course, darrell wilson was totally exonerated by the justice department. we talk about ferguson, but a lot of people forget that fact. well, the ferguson effect is that police officers, and

obviously involves other high-profile cases, disastrous events in north charleston, south carolina, but obviously it means that police officers are thinking twice before they engage. and with the advent of cameras, which i ultimately support, but cameras are going to make police officers hesitate somewhat. in some people's minds, that's good. in some people's minds, that's bad. but i think you're experiencing now a reluctance somewhat for police to do what has been done in the last 20 years. crime is down dramatically throughout the country. in the last 20 years. i attribute it to smarter policing, proactive policing. you're seeing a backing off from that. for a variety of reasons. >> are you worried as you look at new york city today that it is sliding back ward a little bit? i mean, there's still, manhattan is very wealthy. it's still thriving in many ways. do you worry it actually could return to the bad old days? >> i think everybody, you know, has to be concerned about that

possibility. i think bill bratton is a professional. but the mayor sets the tone. he's the chief law enforcement officer. the police commissioners are going what the mayor ultimately wants. >> do you believe the commissioner believes in bill de blasio's philosophy on policing? >> that's a question for bill bratton. >> it's a great book, and one of the things you talk about quite a bit in the book is terrorism. and the terrorist incidents you say were stopped, were they stopped partly because of things like nsa intercepts? and can you give us examples you have in the book? >> sure. the classic nsa intercept was the one in aurora, colorado, mixing up a bomb to bring back

here to new york. there's an intercept because he has difficulty making this mixture turn the right color. so he communicates back and forth. they tell him how to do it. he gets in his car, drives to new york, we, being the jttfs, fbi and nypd have him followed to new york. he comes into new york city, he is raised up because he's stopped at the george washington bridge. his car is examined, the bomb is not found. but he goes through a place in flushing where he lived before. he flushes it all away. his intention was to blow himself up with two companions on the new york city subway system on september 14th of 2009. he was arrested, all three of them arrested, ultimately convicted. gives up the entire story. but comes about as a result of an nsa intercept of his communications of someone in pakistan. >> wow.

>> last question. a lot of people have wanted you to run for mayor over the years, including last time around. any chance you run next time? >> i'm honored when people say that, but i'm happy with what i'm doing right now. >> no chance you'll run? >> i'm happy right now. >> he's not going to say that. thank goodness. >> the book is "vigilance," my life serving america and protecting its empire city. ray kel kelly. thank you very much. coming up, a match for the ages, serena and venus williams in the u.s. open. keep it right here on "morning joe." behold, these are two wind turbines. can you spot the difference? the wind farm on the right was created using digital models and real world location-based specs that taught it how to follow the wind. so while the ones on the left are waiting, the ones on the right are pulling power out of thin air. pretty impressive, huh?

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a lot of noise, but donald trump is introduced. i'd say the reaction was more mixed. >> now, that's an interesting duo right there. johnny mack and donald trump. >> running mate maybe? >> vice president mcenroe. all the stars out to watch top ranked serena williams taking on venus williams in a quarterfinal match-up. venus, not quite able to play spoiler, although she played well. not spoiling serena's quest for sport's first true grand slam in 21 years. she advances after a three-set victory. it was the 27th time venus and serena squared off. serena spoke about playing big sister.

>> it's a really great moment. she's the toughest player i've ever played in my life. and the best person i know. so it's -- it's going against your best friend and at the same time going against the greatest competitor for me in women's tennis. so it was really difficult today. >> you talk about a tough predicament for venus williams. >> that's incredible. >> standing between your sister and truly sports history. >> it would be a proud moment. >> she did not roll over. won the second set 6-1, and serena was too much in the third set. it's fun to watch them play. venus is 35, serena is 33. remember the old days when you turned 25 in tennis, bye-bye, it's over. they are still doing it. they're incredible. serena is two matches away from the calendar slam now. up next, an in-depth look at the very complex and complicated relationship between barack obama and hillary clinton. and what it could mean for the future of the democratic party. we'll be right back.

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clearly, we know from media reports that the obama campaign is deliberately distorting this. i think it's such an unfair and unwarranted attempt to, you know, misinterpret and mischaracterize what i've said. look at what i've done my entire life. working on behalf of human rights, civil rights for years. and i know how challenging it is. and i have the highest regard for those who have put themselves on the line. >> that was presidential candidate hillary clinton in 2008 accusing then senator barack obama of distorting her remark about the role martin luther king jr. played in securing civil rights laws in the is the 60s. joining us now, joy reid. she writes about the politics of race in her new book.

congratulations on the book. >> thank you. >> out yesterday. >> yes. >> great to have you on the show today. >> thank you so much. great to be here. >> you talked in an interview about this book about the difference between liberalism and black liberalism and there's always an assumption from the outside it's the same thing. >> yeah. >> this book shows it's not. >> it's not. and, you know, african-americans and liberals have had this kind of back and forth struggle ever since the 1960s. you have to remember, african-americans were attempting to essentially break into a party, particularly in the south where they were very much not wanted. the democratic party was very hostile to black desires for voting. in the south, they were the only game in town. it was the only way to go. and, you know, one of the things i find fascinating in the beginning years, the committee reached out to both political parties to get their platforms. they wanted to know what each of the parties was going to do on race and african-americans used to split, you know, roughly the way hispanics do now, 65/35

between the parties. and democrats and liberal democrats have had this struggle of whether to keep affirming the era. keep going in that direction. >> right. >> or to try to veer to the right and away from it to get back working class -- >> got about 35%. >> yeah, dwight eisenhower did better. there used to be a substantial number of black republicans. >> we've seen this on the campaign trail. the split between bernie sanders who does very well in progressive, predominantly white areas and black lives matter. >> yeah. >> is hillary clinton going to see this moving forward? or whoever the democratic nominee is? >> i think so. i think what's interesting, you had hillary clinton's husband, bill clinton, really be the guy who championed pushing aside white liberals in order to get the party back into an electoral majority in the white house. so essentially the liberals, the mar mario cuomo liberals.

they have come back big time in the obama era. they have moved the party back to the left. and liberals are much more assertive and demanding their items be met. african-americans are much are assertive on items like policing and demanding their platform items be met and they are not the same items, anti-wall street and economics on the other, not the same platform. >> how much of the root of this tension between the clintons and i say both clintons and barack obama, has to do with sort of a undefined sense that the clintons seem to have given off to barack obama and others, we are more for civil rights than you are. you're just a kid. you're just young and here. we've been doing this for years, don't tell us anything. >> i think it was a sense in 2008 that it was hillary's turn. the parties are both very

hierarchical. and i think for hillary clinton, she believed that she embraced a young senator obama, really tried to be in his corner. she was the only other senator who understood what it meant to be a celebrity senator with cameras following you everywhere you go and trying to get work done while also being in the national spotlight and glare of the spotlight. i think the clintons felt blindsided by then senator obama running for president. then they really dismissed the idea he could possibly beat them. i don't think it was so much they felt they were better on civil rights. i feel like they were not expecting him to run, let alone do so well, let alone do so well in a state like iowa where they thought this was going to be their territory. he shocked the country and shocked the political class and clintons. >> your book is a good history book. and you call clinton the chapter on bill clinton, uses the quotas the teitle, the first black president. what do you think will be the

chapter title ten years from now? >> that's really interesting. i guess you would have to call him in a way -- i don't know i can get it into one simple phrase, kind of the president that verebuked the clinton era d reversed a lot of compromises made by bill clinton, whether it was on gay rights, all of that has now gone so far by the wayside, even the clintons have foresworn it. now really on crime policy, you're seeing hillary clinton walk away from the clinton era crime policy because of black lives matter. he would almost be the rebuker or restoring of the liberal party. not because he came to do that but because the forces that had been yearning for so long to get back on center stage saw his presidency as an opportunity to do that and they did. >> you know else you could title it? the first black president. >> the actual first black president. >> the actual. i'm just saying the monicker

that he put -- >> tony morrison. >> and wore it -- >> the book is "fracture" and you can read it on our site. congratulations, thanks you for coming by. >> congratulations, joy.

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coming up at the top of the hour, after months and months of

criticism, hillary clinton says sorry for using a personal e-mail account as secretary of state. >> i'm sorry. i'm sorry. >> we're going to dissect the apology. why not. we'll look at what made clinton tear up during an interview as her campaign tries to showcase their candidate's softer side. also still ahead, republican presidential candidate mike huckabee joins us, he's not backing down in his defense of county clerk kim davis. >> and why he says he would be willing to spend the next eight years in jail. >> keep it right here on "morning joe." has one simple plan. just pick a size. small, medium, large and extra large. if you need less data, pick small. if you need more, go with extra large-- a whopping 12 gigs for $80 a month plus $20 per phone. pick a size. change it up anytime. it's the simple way to get the best network. and now, get $300 when you switch.

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i know there have been questions about my e-mails so i want to address that directly. looking back, it would have been better if i had simply used a second e-mail account and carried a second phone but at the time this didn't seem like an issue. >> i think there's so much confusion around this, i understand why reporters and public are asking questions, but the facts are pretty clear. >> you may have seen that i recently launched a snapchat account. i love it. those messages disappear all by themselves. >> in retrospect what was supposed to be convenient has turned out to be anything but convenient. >> you were in charge of it. did you wipe the server? >> like with a cloth or something? >> i don't know. >> nobody talked to me about it, other than you guys. >> you said recently using your personal e-mail while secretary of state was not the best choice that you take responsibility. are you sorry?

>> well, i certainly wish that i had made a different choice and i know why the american people have questions about it. but in retrospect, it certainly would have been better. i take responsibility. >> are you sorry? do you want to apologize to the american people for the choice you made. >> it wasn't the best choice. >> it's a distraction, certainly. but it hasn't in any way affected the plan for our campaign. >> wow, more than six months if you can believe it. >> it's been a long time. >> of that kind of dealing with the e-mail scandal. i think we have a change this morning. >> i do. i mean, she's now saying that -- >> i didn't see it. >> she's saying -- i haven't seen it yet either but she's saying she's sorry for her decision to use -- >> no. >> let's just say this. i haven't seen it, but it's got to be really exciting. >> it's sort of like finally

turn the page, right? >> right. build up campaigns, move up. it's got to be massive. >> i'm looking forward to it. >> it's got to be like the end of like, a dramatic movie. >> i don't know. i would think so. i think it will be great, turn the page. >> the end of this movie. alex, do you have a movie? >> hello, mr. bank examiner. >> i owe $8,000. i bet it's a warrant for my arrest. >> something like this mike b n barnicle, where you wait two and a half hours and get a massive payoff. >> walk out of the theater with a smile. >> let's see this climatic ending to hillary clinton and the dragging and finally apologizing. let's watch. let's see how it went. >> what i had done was allowed and it was above board.

but in retrospect certainly as i look back at it now, even though it was allowed, i should have used two accounts, one for personal, one for work related e-mails. that was a mistake. i'm sorry about that. i take responsibility. >> when are we going to see the real ending? >> think she did it -- just do the end of it. hold on. i want to play that again. listen to how flat the voice is at the end. this was a hostage video, right? was it? i mean, here we go. >> what i had done was allowed. it was above board. but in retrospect certainly as i look back at it now, even though it was allowed, i should have used two accounts, one for personal and one for work-related e-mails. that was a mistake.

i'm sorry about that. i take responsibility. >> they cut out the part where she said to david, okay, are you happy now? >> she tried again on the "ellen" show. >> i'll bet that was better. >> that's going to air on thursday. but here's a look. >> let's talk about the e-mails. >> okay. >> what? what? >> well, i want people to understand this so i'm glad you asked. i used a personal e-mail account. it was allowed by the state department. but i should have used two different accounts. i made a mistake and i'm sorry for all of the confusion that has ensued. i take responsibility for that. [ laughter ] >> i'm sorry. it looked -- i've got to say it read better in the "washington post" breaking news alert. she says it with a flattest of

effect as if, i don't know -- >> maybe her facebook page, she posted an apology on social media late last night. >> we're not being difficult. it's flat. >> writing on her facebook page she made a mistake by using only a private e-mail, that she, quote, could have and should have done a better job answering questions earlier. i don't know, she keeps say it was allowed and allowed and allowed and allowed. john hielemann, was it allowed? >> first of all, she apologized, but it's obviously pushed to the edge of a cliff to apologize and -- >> kicking and screaming -- >> which if you're dragged kicking and screaming and apologize finally, that's fine. here i don't know. maybe we're just being too tough on hillary. >> we're being snarky. it sounds like it was the flattest. >> just worried about the tone of the apology? >> what do you think? do you feel like oh, god, i get

it now. >> i knew we were going to get here eventually. she was obviously pushed in this direction. but i'm more with you, less about her tone than with the allowed and semantic game about what was legal and what was allowed. there was a state department policy nine months into her term that said it was not allowed. everything had to be captured on state department servers and all e-mails were not captured on state department servers. it is certainly not allowed. >> nine months in, the obama administration said like willie said, all e-mails had to be captured -- >> thank you, willie for reporting the honest truth and nothing -- >> i feel we've said this now like a hundred times. >> but hillary clinton has said 400 times it was allowed. >> she was allowed to have a personal e-mail account. she was allowed to have a personal e-mail account. the way in which she managed it was not allowed by the standards of the administration. >> for national security reasons, correct? >> yes. again, i think -- i think that

point has come in dispute. what's interesting are two things. if you think about the tone point, you think whatever you want her to do, finally apologized. if you look at the tone that she had when she told the snapchat joke, right, you think about the verve of which she told it, that was from the heart. there's a sarcastic and kind of dismissive but it was real. when she told that joke, she enjoyed telling that joke. with david muir, she did not enjoy apologizing. >> didn't believe it. >> the point she's gotten to does suggest that everything that she has said previously about the fact that no one is paying attention, hasn't affected my campaign, none of this matters. no one cares, that that has all been a lie. the truth is if no one was paying attention and focus groups weren't telling what they were telling and polling wasn't showing what it's showing, she would have never done what she did yesterday. yesterday was an admission that

people are paying attention, it is affecting her standing with democrats and it is affecting her standing with the country. they are hearing it's a problem for her. she needed to do this yesterday so she finally did it. >> she's taken it further down the road and people were saying we're knit picking don't understand politics, tone does matter. >> heart matters. >> mike, between you and me, we have more children than a lot of small countries. we know when our children are forced to apologize and know when they mean it and mean when they don't mean it. tone does matter. why does it matter? because you get an understanding of whether the person gets what they did was wrong. you know, to our significant other saying we're sorry. there's a bs detector that tells our significant others we're saying we're sorry, but we don't mean it. >> mike always knows that, i'm sorry. >> you're just saying you're sorry. again, it's almost as if -- this is the point. listen to just the end of it. we're not going to play it

again. listen to the end of it. it's almost as if she purposefully said it as quickly and as flatly and as -- >> unwillingly. >> unwillingly as humanly possible. >> like us, quite often, you say you're sorry when you get yourself in a difficult situation with your spouse or whatever, hoping that the apology will make the issue go away. i'm sure that that's what she hopes but that's not going to happen. the issue is not going to go away because the issue is larger than e-mail. it was being drawn to these apologies and the issue is the whole 20, 25 years of luggage that the clintons bring to each day with each issue. >> all of the hearings coming up and quite frankly on capitol hill there's a big push to get this mr. pugliano to change his decision on pleading the fifth, the guy who set up the server, the tech guy. they want to hear from him and

he doesn't want to talk, which again -- >> who blames him. this is very simple. now she's taken it one step further down the road. now you apologize and sound sincere. that's a good -- that's the next step. >> clinton also spoke about rebuilding trust with the american people and choked up while talking about her mother. >> i cherish and love this country. it gave me, you know, opportunities far beyond anything my mother or my father could have had. she told me every day you've got to get up and fight for what you believe in no matter how hard it is. and i think about her a lot. i meiss her a lot and i remembe that. i don't want to just fight for me. i could have a perfectly fine life not being president but i want to fight for people like my mother who need somebody in their corner and leader who cares about them again. that's what i'm going to try to do. >> besides the heart, clinton is

also bringing humor to her campaign. this is something the campaign said they would be showing more of. she started with dancing on "ellen" and to beyonce and jay-z's music. the full interview airs on thursday. clinton also announced she will be appearing on "the tonight show" with jimmy fallon next week on the night of the republican second debate. president obama's former senior adviser david axlerod tweeted this. today's "new york times" story on hrc reads more like the onion. her detailed plan to show more authenticity, hash tag, just do it. >> some of these clips look like they are out of the latest season of veep. they really do. they look like they are out of the latest season of "veep." down to the dancing, everything.

you can't -- you can make this up because the producers of "veep" made this up. >> to be clear, the dance she was doing was the whip ney ney dance. >> my children do that. >> also, especially when it comes on the very same day there was a front page story that said we're going to show more humor and that day you see more humor and heart. it looks a little scripted. when she's talking about her mother that's insinceuffici tha >> when does bill clinton become very involved in the campaign? >> very soon. >> tomorrow. >> you think so? >> soon. if not already. yeah. >> look -- >> this whole thing is reminiscent and i don't know if you have long enough memories, but back in december of 2007 when she was in huge trouble in iowa, just coming into the iowa

caucuses and middle of that month the campaign went to the "new york times" and said that hill we was going to go around iowa and go on what they call the likability tour. she was going to fly around iowa to demonstrate to the people of iowa she was likeable. and it was -- one of the most hammy headed things i ever saw. what i'm going to go is prove -- you don't think i'm likeable? i'll show you how likeable i am. the other fascinating thing, it's not -- it's all different people now. it's not like the same group of people from that campaign. it's a different group of people. it was all going to be different this time because the team around her was going to be different. yet it's very much the same which suggests that the issue isn't about the people around her but about her. >> from your knowledge of the internals of the campaign right now, are the people around her just too afraid to approach her and say this is stupid what we're doing? you're going to do this and ab

and c or is everyone afraid or in awe of her in their approach to her? >> i think there's a -- it's neither one of those things. obviously none of these people are dumb. none of them are exactly afraid of her. but it is -- i think there's -- it's hard to reach her. you know, it's hard to reach her because she comes with so many con sen trick circles -- people have been around her for so long, that for new people to come in and break through that and pierce that -- >> i've said that for five years. >> you're really intimate with, not as possible for new people. >> alex tells me, willie, that the interview was 30 but at 12 minutes andrea felt they were going to pull it because they were talking about the e-mail controversy. it's like the closing in on reporters that might veer too

far in the abyss of frightening e-mail controversy. just answer the question. >> selfishly as journalists we wish every had the approach of donald trump. >> a lot of them do. we have another one coming here today. >> one thing to digest all of this and more questions and problems, the new poll out, hillary clinton's favorable within the democratic party, 71%, unfavorable, 17%. so she still has a 20 point lead within the party and people are still rooting for her and like her. she very well may be the nominee and president of the united states but has questions to answer. >> she lost 10 percentage points from head to head, 52 to 42 within the democratic party as well. favorables are still high and she still is the odds-on favorite. not only to win the democratic nomination but given the state of the republican party right now, yeah, that's what i saw last night, winning it all.

here's hillary, if you're in candidate in america running for any race in america and you're at 52% last month and at 42% this month, there's something terribly wrong. there is something about that 40 level. hillary does not want to drop any more. does not want to get into the 30s because then that is when the al gores of the world and john kerries of the world and joe bidens of the world start thinking, she's in the 30s, it's time to move. >> just to point out, it is true her problem is greater with elites than it is with voters. if you look at that number right there. she has got a 20-point lead against joe biden. he's not in the race. if you go back eight years ago, she was more than 20 points ahead of barack obama in national polling in september of 2007. and yet things changed really fast in the course of that fall and she's 20 points ahead of a guy not yet in the race. i don't know, i'd be a little concerned if i were her.

>> still ahead, united ceo gets grounded by a federal corruption probe. cnbc's brian sullivan has more in business before the bell. buzz reflects on one small texas town, a quarter century later. how his best selling book "friday night lights" changed the way we see football in america. up next, republican presidential candidate, mike huckabee joins us live. why he's offering to serve time for eight years, yeah, in jail. you're watching "morning joe." ns equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda.

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♪ former governor mike huckabee of arkansas. why were you in kentucky?

>> well, i had spoken to kim davis before she had the hearing in which the judge ordered her to jail. and after i had heard she had been put in jail, i said this is crazy. this is unbelievable that she's going to be put in jail for this. so i immediately said let's go to kentucky and do a rally for her. we had people on the ground within eight hours of that moment and organized a rally. yesterday over 5,000 people were there according to law enforcement in a town of 3500 people, right? what we didn't know was that kim davis would actually be freed yesterday right at the time of the rally, which was somewhat providence shal. >> one of the people at the rally was ted cruz. we've been enjoying watching clips of him this morning. it looked like your people blocked his way to the stage or at least to even get out in the crowd. do you know what happened there? >> well, he was welcome to get in the crowd and be there.

we didn't know he was coming until just the day before. obviously, we were delighted he wanted to show up and show his support. i invited him to come back and visit with kim davis, which he did. i'm not sure what the buzz is. we were getting ready to go and do a statement to the press, matt staffer, the attorney for kim davis, and it was as simple as that. >> no buzz, he was trying to get somewhere and kept getting blocked. but we'll hear more about that later. so i'm just curious, still obviously we disagree on constitutional grounds here. i want to ask you though biblically, what are the biblical grounds of somebody that works for ceasar, not rendering under ceasar, which seems to be the verse that would apply the most, where of course jesus is asked to pay taxes by

the romans and says render under ceasar, that which is ceasar, that which is god. which seemed to state, if you're working for ceasar, you work for ceasar, if you want to preach for god, preach for god. >> there's no conflict in this case because kim davis was elected under a ceasar that was exkplis italy clear, marriage was one man, one woman. that was the lou she was elected under and law she took an oath under. the supreme court, if you believe and you and i do disagree that the court can make law. i think when you were in congress, you were a part of the body that can make law. i don't think the court could. but that's a whole different discussion. let's assume for the moment that the law has changed. the big question is, did the judge overreach and do exactly what i've been warning about, which is judicial tyranny by putting this woman in jail rather than trying to figure out a way to give her some

accommodation so she didn't have to affix her name to a marriage license to which she objected because of her christian -- >> she's willing to work other jobs that keeps her away from having to do that? >> well, why can't she be the county clerk. why can't the licenses be issued under the name of the state. if the governor of the state is so zermed to make sure they have same-sex marriage in a state where 3e78 repeople rejected it and he wants to surrender and say the court is some body he has to completely obey, even if there is no legislation to really empower that, then he can make that happen. he doesn't even have to call a special session. once we're into this place of every branch doing what it wants to do, i guess the executive branch can do the same. >> i guess a lot of people sort of -- i want to be very careful here, but governor, you know, for example, pope francis just made some moves to forgive

divorce, anullment recently in the news. from that angle, what if kim davis wanted to get a third or fourth marriage license from somebody who truly believes you should only get married once. what would you say to that? >> she's been married four times. >> that's my point. >> and here's the thing -- maybe what you don't know, she has been married four times. i lived a very different life, a life of sin. and four years ago, kim davis came to christ. she really had a powerful experience because her dying mother-in-law asked her to go to church. she did. she found forgiveness and the reason that she is so sted fast and unwaivering in her faith is because she knows what god's grace means. she's experienced it. as a result, she says i can't ever go back and live that life again and the god who forgave

me -- >> that's not the answer to my question. >> governor, again, i certainly don't want to get into a thee logical debate with a preacher -- >> come on, let's do it. >> i spend enough time in the southern baptist church to know like most of the red letters in the gospel and you and i both know, i say this as a divorced man, jesus focused a lot more on divorce, focused a lot more on lust, focused a lot more on the poor. focused a lot more on clothing than naked and visiting people in jail and taking care of the hopeless than he did on homosexuality. in fact, he never mentioned homosexuality. i think to myka's point, you can read the text of the gospel and what jesus christ said, and

there's a lot more condemnation for people like myself who have been divorced than there is condemnation for people that participate in the gay lifestyle. >> let me challenge the idea that he never spoke about marriage because he did -- >> no, no, not marriage -- not marriage he spoke -- >> homosexual marriage was not an issue in the first century. there was no push for same-sex marriage when jesus was teaching but what he did say was that a man shall leave his father and mother and woman shall leave her home and two shall become one flesh. when people say jesus never talked about same-sex marriage, he did by virtue of talking about what marriage is. >> jesus was much more explicit about divorce and you can much more easily make an argument that a judge would refuse to grant divorces because jesus was far more explicit by divorce equalling adultery. >> and i think -- >> what would you think if a

judge in arkansas said i'm not going to divorce these people because jesus christ said that divorce is an abomination and it is adultery? >> a judge in chattanooga in fact dismissed a divorce case before him because of the supreme court case. he said if the supreme court doesn't think that the people of tennessee are smart enough to define when marriage begins and what it is, then obviously the supreme court zntd think they are smart enough to determine when one should end. >> i don't want to hear about that judge because mike huckabee, i asked you a question, would you support a clerk who would not give kim davis a third or a fourth marriage license? you. >> i'm not sure if i follow that question because -- >> if the court says, i'm sorry, i don't think you should get married more than once or twice and asking for your 30th license -- >> that's a different nature. >> no, it's not. >> would you support that clerk?

>> there's a difference between a marriage between a man and woman and marriage between two men or marriage between two women. >> you would support the clerk -- >> let me answer your question. >> i would love it. >> okay, what we're talking about is whether or not we can redefine marriage, not whether or not that a person can have more than one because the law clearly says what people can do. they can have a divorce. we laws for that. >> a law says you can get married now as a gay person, so if you're following -- >> what law is that? can you quote me the statute? can you quote me the specific statute or tell me and let me know which article of the constitution that says that same-sex marriage is under the jurisdiction of the federal government? >> it's a supreme court decision. we've had this same conversation before with roev wade -- >> it requires, joe, it requires an agreement on the part of the other branches of government.

you can't have just one branch. >> this might clear things up. because yesterday i saw a lot of crosses out in the crowd. i heard a lot of people talking about jesus. we're talking to you this morning and i think you would agree with me, for jesus if you read the new testment and believe that the new testament is a literal word of god, you will agree with me that jesus christ looks upon those who divorce, upon those who lust after women or men, equally is lost as people who engage -- let's say get married or of the same sex. would you agree with that proposition under jesus' teaching? and then i'll get to the second question. >> okay, what i would agree with, whatever sins we commit and we all commit them, me, you, we all commit them, the message

of the gospel is not to delineate the sins we commit. it's to emphasize the grace of god to forgive those sins and cleanse us from them. yes, we commit sins and whether it's the sin of divorce, failing to live up to the covenants of our marriage and thinking or speaking evil about other people, there's no a person watching us today who's not a sinner. >> exactly. >> we've all fallen short of the glory of god. my question to you is, are you here this morning, were you here yesterday, were you in kentucky yesterday talking about your faith and you were there because of your faith or were you there because you think that this is a constitutional abomination? two completely different things. >> constitutional abomination, but because of my faith i believe that i have a responsibility to stand with those who are being persecuted not only for their faith but for following the law and especially

those who are being beaten up by the heavy hand of the judicial branch of government and put in jail for doing what they believe in. >> then you certainly understand that another presidential candidate using your logic, could stand with a clerk that refused to grant a heterosexual couple their second marriage license because the word of christ is quite clear when it comes to divorce, that it is against god's -- >> the word of the law is clear. >> i guess what i'm saying is, let's keep our faith out of this. if it's about the law, if it's about ceasar, let's debate ceasar. let's not mix up ceasar and jesus. it's two completely different things. >> let's take your position, joe. if the people's elected representatives in congress, if they want to come out from their

cowardess and say same-sex marriage is okay and president signs it, then we all have to accept that same-sex marriage then is the law of the land. the same thing would be true in kentucky. i accept that. i won't like it but i would accept that maybe i would disobey it, maybe i would pay the penalty for it, but that's not what we're talking about. we're talking about does the court, one branch of government oppose and different from the other two get to -- >> that's fine. we have this debate last week. you're talking about ceasar. let's go to john heilemann. >> governor huckabee, let me ask you and make you an offer an analogy, if there were a muslim court clerk who decided that because islamic faith says that a nonmuslim can't marry a muslim, if that clerk denied a marriage license on that basis

and invoked his or her religious conscience and put in jail for contempt of court, would you have behaved the same way? would you have gone down and stood with that person on the same grounds? >> if i'm understanding what you're saying, if the law specifically allowed people of different faiths, whether a muslim and christian or jew and muslim, whoever it is, if the law specifically allowed for that and dntd disallow it, then yes, that person should have to provide that marriage license. but the point is if that hadn't been legs lated and never codified into law, we're a people of law, not of politics. when the courts become political and when the courts begin to be the super legislative body, which is what has happened here, that's a dangerous path on which we're going to lose this great republic. you guys want to pick out some obscure hypothetical. i'm talking about the reality of

when the courts venture into the territory that jefferson adams and lincoln and jackson and hamilton all warned about. that is becoming its own body of law. separate from the two other branches of government, that is dangerous to the future of the republic and it is something to which we should absolutely resist. >> mike barnicle. >> governor, one more quick question here on msnbc morning bible class. it is this. what do you figure jesus would say and do if he were in little rock arkansas this morning about a flood of refugees in europe coming from syria and northern africa, what do you figure he would say about what the united states ought to be doing and what would you say? >> well, first of all, i think we need to be providing humanitarian assistance and providing food, helping them to be able to have a shelter. there are many ways in which we can be helpful. depending on again whether these

are refugees that are truly escaping for their lives or they are merely running, that's a determination that has to be made on the ground as they are being evaluated. but absolutely we should provide humanitarian assistance for them. the united states always has done that. i was in pakistan after the earthquake and you know who showed up? americans did. we were the ones who were feeding. after katrina, when i was there, who was there? americans were. all over the world, whether a tsunami or earthquake or some type much genocide. it's almost always the americans who show up with love and with tangible assistance and it's one reason i love this country and i think it's one reason we ought to preserve and protect america. we're the only ones who show up most of the time. >> mike huckabee, we appreciate you coming on. >> thank you. >> even when we disagree there are one or two candidates who are too cowsardly to actually do that. you are certainly not one of

those. >> no, i'm not. >> thank you so much for being with us. good luck. we'll be right back with ate guest i'm very excited about. >> really? >> okay. from odessa, texas. friday night lights. >> we'll be right back. they keep their nuclear facilities and ballistic missiles. there won't be surprise anytime-anywhere inspections. and after ten years, restrictions are lifted and iran could build a nuclear weapon in two months. congress should reject a bad deal. we need a better deal. on the internet... of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the new consultants are here. it's not just big data... it's bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution

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>> i'm really excited about this. >> yes. >> up next, conic book, hit movie and remarkable acclaimed tv series.

>> buzz bisinger joins us for 25 years of friday night lights and why he's now on a seconds book tour. >> fosh the second book tour, safer than the first book tour. we'll explain how that went, went horribly, horribly wrong. ♪ ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? quicker smarter earlier fresher

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>> how are you doing? >> how are you doing? >> pretty good. >> how are you doien? >> we're out getting flowers for the ladies. >> secretaries week. >> is that right? i'll be darned. i don't have a secretary so i guess i don't have to worry about. >> you win state, we'll get you two secretaries. >> everything all right? >> well, yeah, everything is going to be just fine as long as we get out there and get what we need to get done and you know,

win state. look at connie britton. >> that was a scene from the 2004 movie "friday night lights" an adaptation of the best selling book by the same name based on the true story of the 1988 permeon panthers high school football team in odessa, texas. the book's author and long time contributing author, buzz bissinger. buzz revit visited the players he profiled as a new afterward for the book's anniversary edition. what a great idea. >> buzz, we're massive fans of the book, the movie, the tv show. >> thank you. and why don't you tell us. it's a fascinating story, 25 years ago, you tried a book tour -- >> i did. >> didn't go too well. >> when the book came out it was controversial in odessa because

i didn't hide frommish issues that had to be talked about which is racism, which was ram pant in the town. they don't like hearing that. misplaced academic properties, more money spent on athletic tape than on books for the english department. going to away games by chartered jet and discouraging kids from the s.a.t. exam. i was supposed to go to o dress is a for book signings and people said if that guy comes, we're going to punch his friday night lights out. they are good, hearty people, but they'll do it. >> true to their word. >> this was the sacred cow and they just been kicked out of the playoffs and they blamed it on the book. so tempers were really high. >> what was it like to see the book success and movie's success and see with a kyle chandler and that extraordinary cast did for the tv series. >> it's been a magic carpet

ride. to talk about anything 25 years later is amazing and that proved in my case marriage because i never made it. it's been a great ride. i'm not sure why it happened. the book has become timeless. i think it's because people identified. they said this is my high school, i knew the kids in the book. you hit on what is unique, great and scary american experience which is high school sports and high school football in small communities. >> 25 years later, football is a religion in odessa and a lot of other towns, a lot of friday night lights still as much of a religion, as thick with relig n religion? >> not as much in odessa because they are not awinning as they were. in the 80s it was a legendary team and there were cinderella aspects, undersized and small and played with their heart out. when you play with your heart out in high school, you can win. but texas football, allen,

texas, just built a stadium four or five years ago, $60 million. >> come on. >> wasn't even built right. the foundation crumbled and they had to rebuild it. katy, outside of houston, 12,000 seat stadium, $58 million. >> high school. >> high school. >> it's alive and well, particularly now in the suburbs, rich suburbs and these kids have private trainers and this and that. great facilities, it's like semipro. >> concussion impact on football? >> not real -- i don't think down in texas. i think it's still religion. at this point they know the risks and i don't see much impact. i'm concerned more and more parents will say i don't want my kids to flay and it's going to become more and more a sport for minority inner city kids and that's not right because they feel a desperation to get out hooking to sports, which is a false hope. >> well, it is really great to have you on the show today. the 25th anniversary edition is

available now and you can catch buzz on the road as he sets out on his national book tour. this one is going better. >> they love me now because the tv show and movie. they say, what book? >> are you going to odessa? >> next week. it will be first time i've officially had a book tour speaking in odessa and midlapd and taking my son as protection. >> we need a camera down there. >> if you don't mind -- >> no, i'm looking forward to it. i think people in odessa have sort of read the book it was an ugly look in the mirror but it was a look in the mirror we had to see. >> thank you for that look in the mirror. >> buzz, great to have you on. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪

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we'll do role playing, i'll be the moderator and you answer the first question. governor bush, what's reyour reaction on the iran nuclear deal? >> i think president obama is being naive to trust the ayatollahs and this will create an even more unstable middle east and troubles me. >> we've written up an answer that's just a little bit just trumpier, just read it right off there. >> this could be dangerous. >> this will be fine. >> governor, what is your reaction to the iran deal? >> i will build a wall between the united states and iran and make mexico pay for it.

>> there you go. >> that's funny. >> that would work. >> welcome back. it's time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned that friday night lights obviously, a great book about our culture and football in odessa texas, buzz bissinger has another great book, prayer for the city about ed rendell's philadelphia, one of the best books about cities and politics you'll read. i'm not the only one who has an issue with jeb exclamation point and i think it should be jeb dot dot dot. >> like what's coming next? >> yes. >> fascinating, intriguing. campaign sign. i'll tell you what i've learned, buzz is starting his friday night lights book tour at the same time that hillary is starting her apology tour. hers started off a little more slowly than buzz's will but we shall see. she took the first step. >> going back to odessa.

>> he's going back to odessa. >> coach and tam may will be waiting for them. >> kyle chandler, more and more people talking about bloodline. can we get kyle chandler on this show? >> we want kyle chandler. >> now it's time for "the rundown". >> and connie britton too. >> up next after a quick break. have a great day, everybody. ♪ i'm meteorologist bill karins, incredible heat on both coasts, 97 in l.a. and 94 in d.c. this will be the last day of the

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by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together. work can work better. with xerox. good morning. first on "the rundown", the mia culp pa ahead around the country, hillary clinton saying she's sorry for only using a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of state. >> in retrospect certainly as i look back at it now, even though it was allowed, i should have used two accounts, one for personal, one for work-related e-mails. that was a mistake. i'm sorry about that. i take responsibility. and i'm trying to be as transparent as i possibly can. >> and live pictures now out of washington where we will soon hear from hillary clinton. any minute she'll layout her