the immediate aftermath. had about 20,000 and went down to 10 and back up now to about 70 thousand. >> that's it for me this hour. michael eric dyson is next. west. tonight a new poll puts trump at the top even as his insults continue. plus scott walker's free fall. and the headset gazi, the patriots kick off another season with the scandal. and a new quinnipiac poll shows trump leading the republican field in iowa with 27%. ben carson in second with with 21%. ted yoouz at 9% and jeb bush at 6%. trump is the clear front runner in the hawk eye state. he's been leading all polls for

past month. meanwhile a two-year-old tweet from trump got some attention this morning. it outraged many on the 14th anniversary of 9/11. trump tweeted, quote, i would like to extend my best wishes to all, even the haters and losers on this special date september 11th. the tweet was deleted this morning. when asked why? the trump campaign responded it is from several years ago. the fallout continues over his insult about carly fiorina's experience. can you imagine that? the face of our next president? >> trump later said he was talking about fiorina's persona. the comments were universally condemned from both sides. on thursday jindal was asked about trump's remarks and had this to say. >> i think it is outrageous for him to attacking anybody's appearance when it looks like he's got a squirrel on toip of his head. >> trump responded by tweeting

oh wow, light i weight governor bobby jindal who is registered at less than 1% in the polls just mocked my hair. so original. >> many people deem especially with the latest thing of the carly fiorina, deem that comment as sexist. du do you think it is sexist? >> i think all of this kind of stuff is like nonsense. the main thing honestly voters are thinking about are the 54 million women of working age who aren't in the workforce today because there aren't jobs out there for them. >> fiorina will likely get her chance to respond to donald trump next week. cnn has announced the debate line up. the prime time debate will include. the earlier debate will include

the debate will be held next wednesday september 16th at the reagan library in simmie valley california. for more let me bring in amy guests. what is your reaction to trump being the clear front runner in iowa? >> it doesn't much surprise me. donald trump since the time he got into this race has really captivated the spirit of the republican primary voter. he -- he is captivated their idea that washington is broken. they want to take on the powerful who have done little to change what's happened since obama was elected president with all of these policy changes coming right from the oval office. whether or not he leads from the beginning to the end is to be scene but he's leading in every poll you see.

>> do you think trump's vicious attacks on candidate likes fiorina will ever hurt him? the sexism will ever put a dent in his record so to speak? >> you would think so. but it seems like poll after poll he either expands his lead or goes occupy. look at the polling numbers. they are amazing. him and ben carson have a significant lead over two guy whose we expected to be very competitive, if not in the lead at this point, jeb bush and wisconsin governor scott walker. i think that is the big news is how bad many of the wlisht candidates are doing right now and you have two candidates that have never run for office successfully and never really been involved in politics heavily, they are right out front. and if you combine their totals they are almost 50% of the vote right now. i think a lot of the members of the party, i think that is why you are seeing bobby jindal say very strong things against donald trump because the candidates know they are going to have to start attacking donald trump if they are ever going to go up.

>> it seems to be counterintuitive but the more unruly trump gets he sooms to garner more support. >> it does seem counterintuitive and it's taken me by surprise starting about three weeks ago. but the longer you think about it the more it kind of makes sense. the republican primary electorate right now has proven by their support of trump that -- that they are interesting in nothing except the most outside of the outsider. they haven't demonstrated much interest in supporting somebody who would go to washington and fix it. they just support somebody who can help them complain about it. >> oh come on. >> no, seriously though. but donald trump is -- he hasn't learned the difference, i don't believe, between being on offense and being offensive. now, that hasn't hurt him a bit. brian is right. but i think it eventually will.

i think to voters, even republican primary voters, he will eventually remind people of that first date. where, you know, through the salad and halfway through the entree it is witty and funny and fresh and new. but i'm not so sure that this shtick lasts all the way to dessert. let's not forget how long it is between now and iowa caucuses and the new hampshire primary. i think this wears thin at some point. >> in light of this wonderful references to dining that brother herald was giving. >> i didn't know where he was going with that. >> now that trump is the clear front runner how important are these debates to him and the other candidates? >> it is great in this process buzz the debates are incredibly important. i really think the viewership at the first debate, i think we're going to have a huge viewership at the second debate. carly fiorina at the top tier is going to drive it even more eyeballs on the debate. and i think it is great.

look, i totally -- i totally disagree that somehow republican primary voters are just cranky. they have a damn good reason to be upset. which is our country is in a very perilous position from an a national security perspective and economic perspective. they wonder if america can lead the world again? and democrats are worried and upset about the way they have been treated by the obama administration and that is why you see so many democrats turning to it now. someone who is an interesting different outsider like bernie sanders. so there is a lot of political upheaval in both parties and as far as my party is concerned i'm glad we're thrashing this out in this debate with lots of candidates because it give ours voters the chance to pick the candidate they want to see be the next president of the united states. >> what happened to walk ner iowa? he was going great and now he's in tenth place. >> yee 3%.

it is reallypath pathetic. and i have to imagine walker is going through the same thing mccain went through about eight years ago, carrying his own bags around and firing his staff. a lot of these campaigns are taking a hard look at the mirror. they are not where they are supposed to be. they are not where trump is or carson is. they are losing to candidates who are unproven quantities and they have to retool and the next debate is going to be very important. so i bet we're going to see fireworks at the next debate. we're already hearing jindal take aim at trump. you are going to see that more and more and they have to talk about policies. we need a very strong policy debate and that is what is going to motivate the voters. because i do agree this is early phases. you are on your appetizer. you are maybe just starting your meal. people are just getting interested in this race and when they get to dessert they are going to make a real decision on what they want and it may not be donald trump. >> harold cook, in hopes of

another enticing and clishs metaphor of dining would it be smart for these candidates to go after trump? clishs delicious. >> it worked for fiorina in the first debate and she wasn't on the same stage but i think that is what put her on the map. you could argue this one of two ways and perhaps i ought to switch to a football metaphor instead of dinner. >> i can't hear you. must be the patriots. i can't hear you. [ laughter ] >> there is a pretty good argument to be made for making yourself as a candidate distinct from donald trump by not going after trump but going after and articulating solutions to the problems that most of these candidates would agree exist. there is an equally good argument to make that by golly it is just somebody's job on

that stage to make trump look like a punk. and i think either thing is doable. but what you cannot do as a competitor if you want to stand next to trump and fair well with republican primary voters is doing the same thing you have been doing. but look there are a lot of highly qualified people on the stage. they are accomplished. not like they are sitting around in conference rooms discussing nothing. they are learning how to keel with trump. and sooner or later somebody is going to get the secret handshake going and it is going to be at trump's expense and to the benefit of the candidate who finally gets it right. >> let me return to the delicious dining metaphor of both harold and brian. do you think trump is having his cake and eating it too? the republican establishment is coming around and embracing trump as the front runner? >> yeah it is just so stupid. i mean, donald trump is a real candidate. take him seriously. he -- he -- he started talking about illegal immigration and its an incredibly serious

problem for this country and the something republican primary voters care about. i don't want to hear about his hair or carly fiorina's face. even though i think happen to this it's beautiful face. i don't want to hear about it anymore. he has a great slogan, make america great again. that's what i want to hear about. and in california, it is going to be in the shad doeft the reputation of the president ronald reagan who gave us the 11th commandment and told republicans they shouldn't just worry about problems other republican candidates have. we should give revision to the country. and it is about what people think and we have to win. it is crucial that we win. we will not win unless we expand the numbers of people that are attracted to our party and our candidate. >> to extend this food metaphor to absurd proportions, where is

the beef? what happened to chris christie? he's polling at 1% in iowa. >> he's disappeared. lookout at chris christie and a lot of these candidates, they are going to walk into that debate with a new game plan. because they need one. and i will say, you know, if you are going to compare donald trump to the patriots and tom brady, you might get me to vote for donald trump because i'm a big patriots fan. but he is doing great. i mean, he is exceeding expectations, he's putting points on the board. playing a very good game and he is running on an issue. and i think both party, one thing we see missing right now is a unifying theme. hillary clinton is not running on any issues. she's running on what she did in the state department and her history and her family history and same with the republicans. the republicans are going to have to get a unifying theme that they run for the white house. and it is going to be based in policy and in issues and i think that may develop over the next few months. we may see the begins of it in the next debate.

>> pittsburgh steelers coach mike tomlin might have a different reading of that. thank you for your time tonight. ahead this hour, wisconsin's fallen star. what is behind scott walker's slide from first place to afterthought in the republican field? and later vice president joe biden opens up about his political future. so when my husband started getting better dental checkups than me, i decided to go pro... with crest pro-health advanced. my mouth is getting healthier. my teeth are getting stronger. this crest toothpaste is superior in five areas. great checkup. now that's a full weekend. ♪ join in and guess the five stops they made by tweeting #altimaweekendcontest for a chance to win your own weekend adventure!

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try a meta health bar. the iowa star has fallen. scott walker carried rock star status in january. the audience exploded when he recited his ultraconservative record in january. >> since i've been governor we've passed pro life legislation and we've defunded planned parenthood. and we've enacted legislation that allows for concealed care and castle doctrine. >> we require in our state by law photo id to vote. >> we said no to obamacare. >> scott walker is wisconsin's governor. but he let iowa know he didn't plan to be a stranger. by february walker dominated the iowa polls. quinnipiac showed him with double digit support and 12 points ahead of the closest candidate. he took his receipt rake rick to the next level and compared union levels to isis. >> i want to a commander in

chief who will do every thing in their power to ensure that the threat from radical islamic terrorists do not wash up on the soil of american soil. >> scott walker returned to iowa in april while he still led the republican pack, the gap was shrinking. by the time scott walker announced his candidacy in july donald trump has gobbled up his lead significantly. scott walker was just two points ahead of trump. the iowa state fair should have been a homecoming for scott walker. the only resemblance to his home state was the protesters that followed him around. in the latest polls scott walker isn't just losing to trump. but he's fallen behind bush, cars carson, cruz and fiorina just a few to name. joining me now my guest. thank you raoult for joining us tonight. why has scott walker fallen so

precipitously and so sharply in this fashion? >> well i think there are two factors. one is donald trump who is the major factor right now in the republican primary. and donald trump has taken out a pull horn and said the things that walker used to say with a dog whistle. when you played the clip of his speech all of these things he bragged about doing in wisconsin have the subtle racial sub text. and that is no accident. walker's political rise comes out of right wing talk radio sphere around the suburbs of milwaukee. and there is a lot oaf very explicit racism there and that's bhn a part of his campaign in a low key way. donald trump just gets right out there with it. so he's taken his bull horn out and drowned walker out and has caused walker not to be able to finish introducing himself. the second factor is walk ears response to events. he's shifted around all over the

place to position himself differently as this problem has gotten worse for him. and that is something we've seen in wisconsin for a long time. when you hear walker brag in the presidential primary that he closed planned parenthood clinics. you would like to see a side by side with his ad campaign during his reelection when he was talking about the abortion as the choice between a woman and her doctor. and voters don't like that. >> we have a breaking news. rick pirerry is dropping out of the 2016 race. what is your reaction to that. >> the field is too crowded. like a clown car. how many more people can they jam into this little vehicle? and people look at the poll numbers and at some point make a rational decision. >> sure. what what's been the response to walk ears heavy campaigning in

iowa. >> he's got 39% approval in wisconsin. the other major factor is the results of his policies are taking effect. he's talked a about this trickle down economics was going to lift wisconsin. in fact we're dragging the nation in terms of economy. and he's attacked the public school and university with suj such brutal budget cuts that people are feeling the effects in communities where they are trying to send kids to school and planning for their future and they are feeling stressed and anxious about what kind of a future their kids are going to have. and after a while that has really caught one walker. >> harold, what do you think about rick perry dropping out? >> it doesn't surprise me a lot. he's struggled from the start. he got into the race still under criminal indictment and that can be an anchor on any political dempb. b endeavor. but the hardest thing to do in

politics is to make a second first impression. he was flying high briefly four years ago and flamed out. spent the ensuing three years boning up, trying to become a serious candidate only to face this field of 17. it is a very, very crowded field. and i think -- i think what he was weight for is to see if by some miracle he could get to the main stage for this next debate. and when they announced that he wasn't going to make it, i just don't see -- he probably just didn't see a way forward. >> right. ruth, in light of the fact that you spoke about the implicit bias and the dog whistle politics of scott walker being put all but on blast by donald trump, what's interesting about rick perry is he was telling black people, look, you haven't been really represented. i'm the candidate who can really reach out. so it seemed that he had a message unusual for some republicans to really embrace

the broader minority community. what happened there? >> i just don't know how many of those votes are republican candidate can really count on? i just don't think that perry could put together the pieces that would form any kind of reasonable percentage of republican voters that we're going to keep him in the race at all. >> harold cook, is he a kind of fred thompson like character that on the one hand you come out all gang buster and look good and sound good and then peter out, not only unexpected by lew in a way that is dramatically under scoring what lack of substance you might have had not only financially but even politically. >> i think politically he -- this is kind of iranic, michael. he actually came out this time a pretty learned candidate. he had boned up on the issues. he knew his material -- >> i hate to interrupt you but let's listen to rick perry. he's about to give a statement. >> conservatives think we need to protect the people from

government. we got too much government. too many government answers. too much government meddling. all at the expense of individual freedom. we need to get back to the central constitutional principle, that in america it is the content of your character that matters, not the color of your skin. that it doesn't matter where you come from but where you are going. in an america blind to color. an america that champions the individual, that recognizes marriage. there is no room for debate that denigrates certain people based on their heritage or their origin. we can secure the border of this country and reform our immigration system without inflammatory rhetoric, without

that base appeal that will try to divide us by race, by culture or creed. and let me be crystal clear here. for those of us in christ, our citizenship first and foremost is in gods kingdom. our brothers and sisters -- our brothers and sisters are those who are made in the image of god. and our obligation after loving god with all our heart, with our mind with all off soul the is to love our neighbors as ourselves regardless of where they come from. demeaning people of the heritage is not just ignorant. it betrays the example of christ. we can enforce our laws and borders and we can love all who live within our borders without

betraying our values. it is time for us to elevate this debate. from the divisive name calling, from sound bites without solutions. and start discussing how we will make the country better for all if a conservative is elected president. and let me say something. i know a little bit of something about enacting conservative principl principles. because we've done it in my home state. during my 14 years as governor, texas created nearly 1/3 of all the jobs created in america. we passed balanced budgets. we cut taxes. we set aside billions of dollars for a rainy day. we elevated our high school graduation rates to the second highest in america. i want you to keep in mind in 2003 texas was 27th in the nation in high school graduation rates. this is a state that is pretty diverse.

this is a state that in the year 2000 the population in our public schools became a majority minority. this is a diverse state. ethically, culturally, geographically, economically. we got a high number of young people who have english as the second language. it is not the easiest bunch of kids in america to educate. and we were 27th in the nation in 2003. some people would say, you know, that is pretty good actually being in the middle of that with four plus million people in the state and that diverse a population. but we didn't think so. i i didn't think so. and we started putting policies into place. we put policies into the place that really made a difference. we started -- we had the largest teacher incentive pay program in america. we had a huge expansion of charter schools. we started testing kids in the

fourth and eighth grade and testing where it matters, where we could intervene and get them back on track. and in a ten year period of time we went from 27th in the nation to the second highest high school graduation rates in america. that is conservative governance. that is giving people the opportunity to succeed in life and not have to depend on government. we didn't -- interesting. we based all of that -- all of that success that happened in that state on conservative principle. we didn't overtax or overregulate. the most sweeping tort reform in the nation. and it mattered. you want -- if you were a pregnant female from el paso to brownsville, that is 1,200 miles. in 2003 you had to leave that county to get prenatal care. but because of the tort reform that was put in place, because of those conservative policies

that were put in place, individuals across that region of the state now have access to healthcare. this has been about access to healthcare. this is about the hospital system in corpus christi serving south texas and a high minority population that saves a hundred million dollars a year in defense costs. that is a hundred million dollars that can go back to doctors and nurses and technicians and technology and buildings. making people's lives better. that is what conservativism is really all about. and we got to get back to it. we can do this. it can be done. it can happen all across america. i want to tell you, 2016 is the most important election of our lifetime. i know you hear that every time there is election. this just happens to be the

truth this time. it is true because we have -- we have had six and a half years. six and a half years of expanding the welfare state. and a contracting of the freedom state. there are two visions for america. the government-run welfare state, like you might find in the state of washington or california. or new york. and you got the limited government freedom states like you find in places like texas or louisiana or south carolina or florida. the centralized state offers more regulations and less freedom. a world where everything costs more. from college tuition to the cost of housing to the price of government. >> their answer to our current

economic mess is more government solutions. more tax dollars placed in the hands of bureaucrats. more distribution schemes. and a shrinking pie for the middle class. i think it was margaret thatcher that said the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of spending everybody else's money. but it doesn't have to be that way. with the right nominee, we can cut taxes on corporations and individuals. we can unleash growth and create jobs and lift wages. we can create opportunity by drilling for american energy and selling it all around the world. questi we can restore our reputation by reasserting our moral authority.

by standing with our allies like israel. by standing up to our adversaries like iran. we can be the america that we know in our hearts we are meant to be. a nation of ideas and innovations. a place where freedom flourishes. that special land that those heros at normandy died for. conservative principles applied consistently will make the better place for all of us. but especially those minority americans. more african americans are living in poverty today than they were when president obama took office. that is because he offers them government programs. instead of creating new incentives for people to work. we can improve the lives of

americans minorities. the formula is simple: stop these politically correct regulations that keep housing from the single mom. let the low and middle income americans keep more of what they make. challenge all of our kids to excel in school. we did that in texas. and you know what the result was? an extraordinarily powerful economic place. from 2007 through the end of 2014, 1.5 million jobs were created in that one state. while the rest of the country collectively lost 400,000 jobs. those are conservative policies. it is a place where life was

protected. and people flocked there. they came in droves. we added some six million people to our populations during that decade. and in case you're asking, are you thinking it wasn't because the weather is so great in august that they came. they came there because there is still a place where freedom matters. where freedom reigns. for me the message has always been greater than the man. can conservative movement has always been about principles. not about personalities. our nominee should embody those principles. he or she must make the case for

the cause of conservativism more than the cows of their own celebrity. cons when i gave my life to christ, i said your ways are greater than my ways. your will is superior to mine. today i submit to you his will remains a mystery. but some things have come and become very clear to me. that is why today, i am suspending my campaign for the presidency of the united states. we have a tremendous field of

candidates. probably the greatest group of men and women. i step aside knowing our party's in good hands as long as we listen to the grassroots. listen to that cause of conservatism. if we do that, then our party will be in good hands. and i want to share with you rick it's been an honor to speak with the country about their hopes and dreams, to see a sense of optimism being prevalent despite this season of cynical

politics. and as i approach the next chapter of my life, i do it with the love of my life. at my side. anita perry. we have a house in the country. we have two beautiful children -- >> let's bring back harold cook, democratic political analyst, ruth, editor and chief of progressive magazine. and jonathan alter. harold, what struck me here is a couple of things. first had he campaigned the way he's now leaving he might have stayed longer. but two, was there enough oxygen in the room with donald trump sucking it all up? but he hit the themes of the

martin luther king, jr. with the content of your character and not the color of your skin. and talked about the relationship to christ in a explicit and straightforward fashion. what do you make of the themes he strikes on the way out the door. the typical conservative ones. but those two themes at the center of his extended story of the plight of minority peoples. >> look there is a supreme irony of this political chapter that rick perry may have given one of the best stump speeches in recent times on his way out the door. i think -- i think that was great red meat for several swaths of republican primary voters. and he'll probably be pretty wistful about it tonight. along with the fact that he'll know that this afternoon he is probably gotten more media attention than he has for the entire rest of the campaign. there were a lot of things he

left out of his list of accomplishments as texas governor for one thing, you know, yes he balanced the budget but he did it by slashing public education and he did it by not expanding medicaid, leaving texas with the most insured people in america. there is a lot of bad news too that but the republican primary voters don't care anything about those things. i'll bet if they watched were thinking gosh i wish i had taken a better look at that guy. >> right. ruth earlier you had a skepticism with how many votes he could get. but on the way out the door he reemphasizes the fact you don't have to denigrate immigrant populations in order to have border security. whether do you make of this balance between the freedom to exist as a minority person and also the concern about the immigration policies? >> well, rick perry is identifying the absolute central crisis of the republican primary

season, which is that these candidates are competing to espouse more and more anti immigrant and frankly openly anti latino sentiments. all the way people who have been paying attention know that you cannot win a general election when you alienate latino voters in the united states. and the republicans needed latino voters and he made headway for george w. bush in attracting them. and mccain lost that and lost the race as the result. and nowhere is this more noted than in texas. and this heartfelt statement is recognizing this political reality and recognizing that he like a lot of other candidates have been shouted out of the race by donald trump and it is incredibly frustrating. his personal frustration is i think is blended together this trump phenomenon is not going work and it is frustrating for people like rick perry. >> a whiff of that may be for ted cruz but most of that

pungent and powerful thing that we heard today is aimed at donald trump. is donald trump going to be -- continue to be that dominant, that even implicitly he's being referred to here and all of his policies are what are shaping the future of the republican party. >> well, you know, trump's insult against perry where he made fun of his glasses is the kind of things voters remember. they remember the insults more than the policy details. but i think rick perry sealed his fate in republican politics. in 2012. not with the oops line. that got all of the attention in the process. that was a gaffe he could have gotten past. but from his progressive position on immigration. and he defended against romney and others the idea of letting latinos in texas go to texas state universities. and he said that that was the compassionate thing to do and he used the word love when he was

describing his immigration policy. this is just a complete non starter in the republican party of today. nobody can be nominated or even make the slightest headway if they have an enlightened position on immigration. where i fault perry is that at a time when they could have gotten this issue behind them, when a bill passed the senate, if the governors and other leaders in the party had come together and said we must pass this comprehensive immigration bill that we've compromised on with the democrats. it is a good, solid bill. it does a lot for border security and other things. it has a path to citizenship. and they had done that and gotten this issue behind them, then perry might have had a chance at the nomination. but they didn't step up and take leadership on immigration when it counted. and that is sealed his fate. >> what about that, harold? if jonathan is right that the

timing is everything and they failed to take advantage of it when they had it, what does that mean now going forward for immigration policy? is it going to be forever caught between a kind of reactionary politics that asserts immigrants at the predicate for all that is messed up in this country? or will there be a pathway to sensible and sane reformation? >> well i tell you, i remember when the immigration bill failed. there were some republicans in congress and also republican consultants who were saying behind the scenes, look guys. you better take a somewhat unpopular vote now or you are going to be creamed on this in the future because of the republican primary voters. and now here we are finding ourselves in election season, where now suddenly donald trump has set the tone. and the tone is somewhat akin to i'm going remind people of george wallace without reminding people of george wallace. they are stuck with this until they become part of the solution if there is still a majority in

congress after the election. but i think look, this is the cost of not dealing with a real problem is that you end up with campaign rhetoric. and that campaign rhetoric cannot fail to very much hurt them in a general election. >> herathank you for joining us. we'll be right back. a new test with pluggable febreze.

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welcome back. we're following breaking news. former texas governor rick perry has suspended his presidential campaign. this makes him the first republican to officially exit the race. joining me now is chuck todd, nbc news political director. chuck, perry is out, so who is the next shoe to trodrop? who is the next candidate to leave? >> perry always viewed himself as somebody who should be top tier. if he couldn't get in the top tier debate he thought what am i doing to my reputation. his decision to do this will put pressure on. his decision was financially driven. one presidential candidate when they dropped out some 20 years ago when you're out of bud, you're out of beer. when you're out of money, you're out of the game. he was out of money. i think you look at the other guys like the bobby jindal, lindsey graham who have good

resumes but can't even get into the first tier debate. you can't help but wonder that they into be -- when they can't pay a staff, that's when they end up dropping out. >> chuck todd, it may seem cruel to say so, but some people may go, hey, was rick perry still in the race? >> no, it's fair. look, mike, i don't mean to interrupt you on the question, but i think this is -- this is a -- he's part of -- voters -- republican electorate wants something different. they want new. he's not the only guy who was running again who was not getting traction. mike huckabee is struggling, rick santorum, jeb bush is related to somebody who ran before. they're struggling. voters are saying don't give us old, give us something new and different. >> so this lessons the number to a four of the people at the earlier debate. does that change the tone, texture and character of that debate at all some. >> i bet you cnn is wondering why they're doing it.

i think that's what those candidates have to start fearing. you know, right now the networks have felt compelled, well, we should have two debates. when you start asking yourself, you know, perry, the end of the day was a fairly big name, a very deep resume. you know, been the longest serving governor of texas. then you start asking yourself why are we holding an event for bobby jindal, lindsey graham and -- you know that's what those candidates have to fear now. >> well, you can't reasonably ask the question who rick perry's exit harms most, can you? because if he had a minuscule impact to begin with it doesn't seem to negatively handicap the people who are left. >> if it has any impact, it's a financial impact and it's with texas donors. i do thing there were some texas donors who were with perry out of loyalty, particularly for his super pac. his super pac still had some money, but he'd run out of money for his regular campaign.

so i think perhaps if you're ted cruz, jeb bush or rand paul, the other three candidates in the race that had deep texas donor ties, you might all of a sudden get a couple of people who are saying, hey, i'm not doing anything until perry's out. >> right. >> so that's where it could have an impact. >> you listen to the speech. pretty striking to me, the emphasis on that content of our character, color of our skin and the personal evangelical outreach in his personal confession of christ. what do you make of that in the landscape? it was a riveting speech as long as it lasted. but what do you make of his legacy and what he ends up -- you know, the impact of his own presence in that race? >> don't forget where he was at. the group is a very religious oriented group that he was speaking towards. some of the remarks was geared towards that audience of phyllis schlafly in that forum. not to discount that. but remember what the event was about. when you write the -- when you

write the chapter about rick perry and presidential politics, the chapters not going to be about 2016. it will be about 2012. a year ago at this time he was the front-runner for the republican nomination. he was the conservative who could win. that was basically his whole pitch. and donors initially had bought into it. he had raised more money than romney. he was ahead. he had his moment. it wasn't this cycle. it was last cycle. and he blew it. and it was over the issue of immigration. everybody's going to point to oops. he was already in trouble before oops. he was the first reminder of just how the immigration issue is just, no matter how conservative you are on any other issue, if you're at considered not conservative on immigration, he was a dreamer, that was texas law. he signed into law and he defended it. that's what started to undo him before oops. >> chuck todd, thank you so much, as usual for your splendid

insight. >> all right, michael, thank you, sir. let's bring back harold cook, a political analyst and jonathan alter. chuck ended with the point you were making very powerfully about the timing for the immigration policy and what they might have done. is donald trump going to be the bane of their existence? if they don't get that worked out, how much longer can donald trump play to the politics some have said of xenophobia, others have said of refrenchmetrenchmee borders. >> it can play out for more than a year until the 2016 leakeelec. anyone who said trump is not going to be the nominee, is definitive about it, is not paying attention. he's still not the favorite, even though he's leading in the polls for a variety of factors that we've been discussing a lot, but he could well go all the way to the nomination. then if he gets stomped in november and there's a real

repudiation of trumpism, at that point the party has to take a serious look in the mirror or could actually break apart. now, that has happened before in american history where, you know, convservatives say we're not going to go down with the ship again. six out of seven presidential elections because we're not in touch with the demographic future of this country. and if there's one branch of our party, the trump branch that wants to be anti-immigrant and wants to just blow off the fastest-growing population of voters, we might spay bye-bye t them and form a different kind of republican party. so these are big tectonic plates that are shifting in our politics, and rick perry's kind of, you know, a canary in a coal mine. he's not a major figure himself. but he represents the quandary that republicans find themselves

in. >> so harold cook, do you buy the robert frost analogy here that where two roads div urge in the yellow wood and the republican party has to determine which road it's going down. given jonathan alter's very insightful analysis there, how do they make the choice at some point to say either we're going to broaden the tent after that autopsy came out about the republican party or we'll continue down this road that has led us to such disaster electorally? >> well, either choice takes an awful lot of guts because one choice you're splitting a party, which at least in the short term almost surely means that you're weaker as each party of these plit party split parties. the other choice takes almost more guts which is today is the widest swath of republican primary voters and saying to them, up yours. the grown-ups have taken charge. we're not going to be racist

anymore. we're not going to be hating on women anymore. we're going to start appealing to the wider swath of voters than the rightest of the right wing. that guy that says that is not going to be mr. popularity right off. that's great campaign strategy, but i don't think what the tea party wants to hear. >> we've got 30 seconds left. what do you think? who is the next person to drop out of here, jonathan? >> i think it's probably somebody like george pataki or rick santorum. you can't run if you don't have the oxygen, if you don't have the money. but what's different this time is that there are these billionaires who are behind a lot of these guys, and they can go for months on end running on fumes and super pac money -- >> even like a scott walker? >> yeah, as long as they kind of live off the land a little bit and don't have big bloated staffs, they can hang in there well past iowa and new hampshire. >> harold cook and jonathan

alter, thanks for your time tonight. i'm michael eric dyson. thanks for joining us. right now on msnbc live, breaking news. rick perry dropping out of the fight for the republican nomination. why he did it, why now, and who could be next. also video just released showing the nypd officer arresting former tennis star james blake and bringing him down to the ground. two people detained by police in arizona. could it be a possible breakthrough in the highway shooting terror? breaking news tonight on the 2016 republican field. former texas governor rick perry is dropping out of the race. >> today, i'm suspending my campaign for the presidency of the united states. we have a tremendous field of candidates. probably