there. thank you so much for that report. tom costello for us. appreciate it. thanks for watching. i'm richard lui. attack of the little people. is trump ready for it? let's play "hardball." good evening. chris matthews in washington. i think the battle in the republican party's going to look a lot like this. donald trump is that elephant there with that pack of hungry lions trying to bring him down. he'll spend the next couple of weeks fli weeks flinging them off his back. i'm joined by robert kosta, stephanie cutter and howard fineman for the huffington post. we know now what the debate stage will look like this wednesday night at the reagan library. cnn announced 11 candidates made

the main stage with the addition of carly fiorina. donald trump will be center stage flanked by jeb bush and dr. ben carson. how contentious will it get? according to "the new york times," many of the candidates are convinced they're better off using the debates to make forceful and targeted appeals to viewers rather than trying to knock off mr. trump. advisers of several candidates said that. anyway, there are some exceptions. these are interesting. both jeb bush and carly fiorina are expected to take on mr. trump most aggressively like those lions going after the elephant. mr. bush's advisers say he will confront him for not sharing the values of conservatives. howard, what's your bet? i think carly fiorina, just to start with her, because she did make the cut. he's been attacking her looks, whatever. he owes her a somewhat chivalrous comeback or what you'll call a stepback from that. and she's going to be there and everybody will be watching her

attitude towards him. >> right now she's the headline of the show. at least the pregame. she's going to be there. cnn made sure that she would be there. i would bet that the first question will be to her, and it will be, ms. fiorina, do you have any comments about what donald trump has said? then she'll lead the tone of how things are going to go. i would expect that she would not attack him at the level he attacked her -- >> on looks. >> on looks. that would be a dumb response. >> she will say that she is the business executive with the real knowledge of how the economy works and the real experience. >> well, stephanie, as the woman among the four of us, you have the right to the chair now. what do you think is the smart move for her if you had to game it for her? >> she does have to address the comments, but not on the same terms as trump leveraged them. you know, i kicker with what howard said in that if she goes to her business experience, trump will come right back and hit her on it.

because that's where he had started, that she's a failed ceo. >> a loser. >> a loser, was the worst ceo in american history. and i think she should use it to leverage some of the issues that she's running on and say it's not that -- you know, what i said about my looks is not insulting but where you stand on an issue is insulting. that's his weakest point. he's a bully. hiss bravado. that's all he's running on. he's not running on anything of substance. >> you argue that and i agree with that in terms of the game, the way they're fighting it. you're covering it every day. it seems to me he's playing high school bully. making up nicknames. there's always somebody that was good at making up nicknames. some of us were victims of this. the low energy, the low testosterone. bush thinks he's saying low test tost ron. he's saying low energy. but he's appealing to a

toughness in the republican voter electorate against their leaders. he's grabbing something out there among women and men both now. they like this approach to life. >> the voters seem to like it. the base likes it. we're in this post labor day moment and everyone is looking to shine on this stage. i was with trump on capitol hill this week. talked to trump, talked to his campaign manager corey lewandowski. they say bring it on. >> like the lions going after the elephant. >> those lions will come with canned lines. trump's whole game is i've been a public showman for three decades. >> canned lines, that's what he's ready for, the set pieces. he doesn't need set pieces. it comes to him. nothing comes to mind with these other people. anyway, what was that vice president for bush guy? dan quayle. nothing comes to mind. anyway, in the past few days, by the way, donald trump has gone to war with pretty much everyone in the republican field. and the candidates are taking a much more aggressive stance against him. >> that's a very big part of who

i am, humility and a fear of the lord. i don't get that impression with him. maybe i'm wrong. but i don't get that impression. >> i think he believes that he can insult his way to the presidency, and i don't think history's a very good guide for that. >> he's the most unqualified people -- most unqualified person to be commander in chief. >> he's a nast is a cyst. he's an egomaniac. the only thing he believes in is himself. donald trump is not a serious person. this is a carnival act. >> hmm. anyway, better to have the carnival act than no act, mr. jindal. not just the candidates fighting back according to the "boston globe." many of his advisers, through no concerted effort, they are curiously aligned once again in common cause, a stem-to-stern effort that has united old comrades even as they nominally play for different teams, stopping donald trump. this is what i'm talking about, this pack approach to him that we showed with the wildlife

pictures there. is that going to look good on tv, a bunch of hyenas -- >> depending on the exact choreography, the results, i think is good for donald trump in many ways. >> you said, stephanie, she takes the first shot at him because the anchors will make sure, the moderators will make sure. then the others will say, and i agree. is that what the others will do? >> they'll take the lead from the tone she says, which she is key to the way this thing goes down. but yes, if they all train their sights on donald trump, the fact that he's faster on his feet than the others and tapping into the thing time and time again revulsion with the system that exists, all the rest of them are going to look even more like the system that he's attacking. it's paradoxical. but to the extent they get down to his level and get out of their own comfort zone. >> right. >> bobby jindal is a rhodes

scholar nerd who is suddenly trying to act like a schoolyard bully. >> making fun of the guy's hair. why do they all stupidly go for the looks game? they all go for the hair. it's so predictable. >> they're all such lookers themselves. >> let's not start on that. but there is a certain three stooges aspect. almost expect trump to go like this, ba, ba, ba, like curley because they make stupid obvious comments. he just kills them. >> what's that old word, vigor, who will have vigor on the stage? >> will the low energy guy have it? >> he has to. >> a natural inclination among bush allies and these other rivals to be dismissive of trump. >> that's not working. >> kasich, rubio, do they bring the life, the energy? trump has changed the stakes of this race. you have to play at his level. >> someone has to corner him

with substance, chris, at some point either on what he doesn't know, on the fact that he's flip-flopped if not lied on issues. on the fact that he doesn't understand the depth of things. i don't know who is going to do it. a debate format with 11 people is not the place to do that. hugh hewitt, the conservative radio guy did it because he had him on the stage alone. >> joyce behar, she won't need my help, she's an aggressive person. when will you start talking about women's brains instead of their looks? and the audience applauded. he walked away with that. you won that round. he should have done that with megyn kelly, let the other side have a round now and then. if squloi behar says a really good line, does he walk away in it and pick a fight somewhere else? >> i've been covering trump all year. he adapts. he makes mistakes a lot but he

adapts. they'll all try to rattle him. >> news now, rick perry, the former governor of texas, has dropped out of the presidential race. so the little kid's table's getting littler. >> he was one of the first people -- >> he looked like he had a shot. >> the first guy, actually, to attack donald trump, not that he was going anywhere to begin with, rick perry, but he at least was the first guy to try to take him down. got run over in the process. >> you've been in the business, stephanie, and you're good at it. you got advice to republican candidates to at least get points on the board next wednesday night? is it the smart move to take a shot at him or is the smart move to somehow use those moments on the stage to separate yourself in a way i think kasich did the first time? >> i think you have to do both. but both have to be the opportunities need to be there for you to take it. you can't manufacture opportunities. otherwise trump is going to slam you. you can't have canned lines. so jeb bush is the perfect example.

donald trump is going after his weakness that we can all identify, his lack of strength, his lack of energy, excitement. and he's coulding to j indoing lots of people did to his father when he ran for president. >> calling him a wimp. >> he needs to address that, the debate is the perfect place. but he needs to do it in an area that he has strength. doing it just to pick a fight -- >> howard and i were looking at the betting odds right now. trump is in the top three as the best bet to win among people who put money on the table. people with money are betting it on him now to win the nomination. >> he's got a coalition that brings in new voters. the question is can he keep his interest in this race, can he keep running a campaign that has a national network on the ground. >> can he keep his interest or can he keep the voters' interest? i ask that seriously because part of it is whether he keeps his own interest in the darn thing. >> we'll meet tomorrow morn pg and get breakfast and look over

the morning line again. robert costa, stephanie cutter and howard fineman. coming up on this anniversary of the attacks of september 11th, former new york mayor rudy giuliani argues that the threat of terrorism is still real and present. he's coming here next. joe biden's heart-wrenching appearance on the "late show" is fueling the question of whether he plans to get into this presidential race. inside the complicated relationship between hillary clinton and president obama. she's separated from him on the hot spots, syria, russia and the middle east. can she go to the hawkish side and still win the obama people? finally, let me finish with a positive legacy of september 11th. those two heroic words "let's roll."

everyone loves the picture i posted of you. at&t reminds you it can wait. we just reported the breaking news that rick perry is dropping out of the presidential race. here's perry speaking late today

in st. louis. >> we have a tremendous field of candidates. probably the great eest group o men and women. i step aside knowing our party's in good hands as long as we listen to the grass roots. listen to that cause of convftism. i give you this news with no regrets. it has been a privilege for me. it has been an honor to travel this country, to speak with the american people with their hopes. and their dreams. to see a sense of optimism being prevalent despite this season of cynical politics. >> governor perry took a thinly veiled parting shot at donald

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only from xfinity. two airplanes struck the two large towers of the world trade center. we spoke to the white house. there also apparently was an attack on the pentagon. we asked that the air space around the city of new york be sealed by military aircraft. we've been informed that it has been and we've seen military aircraft up in the air. so we're hopeful that right now things are secure. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was rudy giuliani on the morning of september 11th, 2001, as he offered a calm by commanding voice amidst the chaos. today in shanksville, pennsylvania, they remembered the 40 passengers and crew of united flight 93 for their courage. at the pentagon with the same cloudless september sky of 14 years ago family members and

survivors held a ceremony of somber remembrance. and beside the empty footprint of the world trade center twin towers, the names of the dead were called this morning. >> michael f.cammerota. >> david otay campbell. >> jeffrey thomas campbell. >> robert arthur campbell. >> sandra patricia campbell. >> in an opinion piece in "the wall street journal" today, rudy giuliani warns that vigilance is still needed. he writes, it would be a mistake to conclude that 9/11 is part of the nation's history like pearl harbor. one big difference, the causes and hatreds that created 9/11 are still with us. joining me is the former mayor of new york, rudy giuliani. one thing i always liked about the way you handled that, was

giving us the information as you got it. i hate rolling disclosure. i like when they stood on the curb across from the five-alarm fire and gave the info. it was the comic book hero. you played that role. and i appreciate it. when the nazi said he would invade new york and humphrey bogart's character said there's certain neighborhoods in new york i wouldn't advise you trying to invade. that attitude about our country, i don't care whether it's the tough neighborhoods or the nice neighborhoods, i like the fact that we're willing to fight. what was your reaction when you heard that the three american guys on r & r, two gis over in france on the train having a good time nevertheless had the instinct and the guts to jump up and run over and grab the guy with the ak-47, the automatic luger, disarm him and capture him on l all on his own initiative with one guy yelling "let's go." i'm so glad we still have it. your thoughts. >> reminds me of my firefighters

and police officers that day. reminds me of steven siler who ran through the battery tunnel 40 was off duty but he wanted to go help. he lost his life there. there's a whole foundation now called the tunnel to towers fund that's building homes for wounded warrior, believe it or not, with the money that they raise. so we do have it. what september 11th answered for me and it answered it in one picture was the picture of the firefighters put the flag in the ground that looked so much like iwo jima. it answered for me the question asked by brokaw in the book about the greatest generation, whether we had it, you know, whether we still have that. and what i said was, when i saw that and i saw the construction workers come and volunteer at 5:00 in the afternoon and tell me -- i asked them, what are you doing here? they said we're here because we're big and we can lift things. i said, these are the sons and the daughters and the grandsons and the granddaughters of the

people who fought the second world war. and when things are okay, we fight with each other and we create lots of problems, but when we're under stress, we're one nation and we're one country and we fight back. >> yeah, i loved it when the yuppies in those days, to use an old term, were sitting at the sidewalk cafes in the nicer parts of towns cheering the firefighters as the trucks went by. those were magic days. >> how about the ones that were cheering president bush? >> well, i cheered him too. i thought that was a moment of greatness when he said, we're going to get those guys. i mean, we were united. >> i was driving up the avenue with him and governor pataki and the police commissioner and the west end, of course, is very democratic and they're all yelling and screaming for the president. we love you, george. and i leaned over to him. mr. president, i don't know how to break this to you, none of these people voted for you. >> but they voted for you the second time. now that we'll get into the difficult stuff and i know we

disagreed about the iranian deal. we'll see how that works out in the future. but peter king who is a tough customer, real new york kind of guy who is very skeptical about this decision by the president to bring in those people from syria. what's your view about how do we ensure, at least the best we can, that they don't bring their politics with them? >> we got to do tremendous background checks on them. >> is that doable? >> i mean, peter is right to be careful. i mean, you might bring in a thousand and 997 are terrific and 3 of them want to blow some place up. so you better be careful about who you're bringing in. this is not bringing in people from -- it's not even like a situation with mexico or some place like that. >> mexico hasn't been at war with us since 1840. >> totally different situation. peter is right to be careful. i think we have to take some numbers. i think we have to participate, but i think we have to be very careful about who we take. >> let me ask you about the question of what we have to do

to behave. i was with a group last night out in denver. and they really want to educate people to how we respond individually to terror attacks. we have marshals on airplanes. maybe you're good at spotting the guy on the plane. it's a guy usually. i can't do it. but some people say they can tell who the marshal is, he's the guy that asks for the diet coke. he's armed and ready and sober, obviously. but then you get on trains, you get in movie theaters and malls. israel i was there years ago when i got out of the peace corps. a nice looking young woman next to me with an uzi. nobody will mess with that theater. because they're going to get killed instantly before they can lob their grenades. how do we respond as a society reasonably? do we deputize people? have volunteers? we can't have police everywhere. we don't want them everywhere. how do we keep ourselves safe in large public spaces? you raised a large alarm in that piece. it's a danger.

>> first of all, we make sure all of our police departments are trained in looking for the precursors of terrorism. new york is, los angeles is. chief bratton in new york, commissioner bratton in new york and commissioner kelly before him were terrific at it. i think actually it's commissioner bratton who coined the phrase "precursors of terrorism." they train their cops to look for it. chicago is good at it. all police departments should be good at it. and to have courses to train people in what to do if there's a terrorist attack, how to defend themselves and how to help. you don't want to raise the alarm too far. here's the reality. the reality is very little chance that any one of us will be killed by a terrorist. but there's a very good chance there's going to be a terrorist attack. if that makes sense. it's like the airplane crash and the car accident. many more people die in cars than airplanes, but when there's an airplane crash, it is a much more horrendous event.

and the reality is it isn't as if most americans are going to be killed by terrorists, but we are going to have terrorist attacks. we can't constantly be successful. we've had them. ft. hood, boston marathon, you've had them in europe. and now that they've decided that they can do these one-offs and two-offs, it becomes much, much harder for law enforcement to stop that and to track it. >> by the way, i think sirhan sirhan was the first terrorist who killed bobby kennedy. that was about mideast politics. in a tribute to rudy giuliani and a lot of our viewers are liberals and progressives. but you did something big really right and thank you. >> thank you very much, chris. i really appreciate that. coming up, the incredible story how america was made by the best-selling author who traveled the length of the oregon trail in a covered wagon. you are looking at two airplane fuel gauges. can you spot the difference? no?

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what's the best way to really see the open road these days? turns out it's a covered wagon. journalist rinker buck is out with a new book that's selling big "the oregon trail." about a four-month ride. 2100 miles. 79 campsite journey retracing the old oregon trail from kansas city, missouri, all the way to portland, oregon. along the way buck and his brother nicholas discover some of the physical challenges the settlers faced once, but a lot about the spirit of americans today. joining me right now is rinker buck to tell us about his fascinating adventure. i love these books. iconic, about america, mt. rushmore and stuff like that. this is what david mccullough always digs up, but you got there first. >> it was an accident. i was up in kansas and wanted to see the flint hills country. i came across an oregon trail marker. >> was it a paved road? >> right off of paved roads, but

many people think the oregon trail must have disappeared but most of it is still two-lane blacktops now or about a thousand of the 2,000 miles trail is original ruts, you know. >> what was it like with the mules? what were the mules all about? i'm looking at it right now. they're pulling your wagon and they pulled the wagons back in the 19th century. >> i say that what i learned on this trip is body language. i learned body language. they're actually smarter than horses. they have a bigger cranium capacity than a horse. so you tell a horse what to do sort of like a dog and a horse will generally do it. a mule goes, well, let's consider that. let's try to figure that out. so you have to do a lot more coaxing and you have to be a lot more emotional with them. so you call the mules, you talk to them. >> you don't whip them with a whip. >> bad horsemen do. but they'll never forget it. so you don't -- so we had some places where we had to come down the mountains, 2,000 foot drop

in a mile, mile and a half. and you got really talk to them. >> how do they hold the wagon back? jt actually, we had the wheels chained in that situation, but they do have something called breaching straps on their rumps and they lean back into the harness. that's why going downhill is a lot scarier. >> what did america look like, poor, rich, mixed? >> fascinating. through the agriculture areas in eastern nebraska and kansas, the small towns have died. that's very depressing. but you get to one and it's usually more than 50 miles from a walmart and it's revived. the generosity of the people is fabulous. but the most interesting thing is that the trails a is all sti there and all the trail encampments. the places where the pioneers camped like plum creek and chimney rock, they've all been turned into state parks. as a matter of fact, they were converted into state parks during the new deal.

and you can ride right in there and camp just like the pioneers did. >> what do you think it's about america that everybody loved what stephen ambrose did with lewis and clark, and this is still a real place you can go to. nostalgia, trying to figure out where we came from even if our parents came here more recently? >> i think there's a residual memory of what the historian library of congress said, daniel borstin said, the covered wagon was a community vehicle. it required activities in groups. that was very true. while we were alone we were reminded how much easier it would have been to be with a covered wagon train, getting uphills and emptying the wagon, everything. america's subliminal memory of still doing things as a community in groups. >> i think of the old cowboy movie, whether true or not, circling the wagons when under attack. >> they actually didn't do that. >> that never happened? >> well, it happened, but to

keep the cattle in. >> it wasn't to fight the indians. >> no, it wasn't to fight the indians. what the book is all about and why i got motivated to write it is all the myths that are passed down by our history teachers and hollywood were inaccurate in many ways. and so the book goes into all the things -- >> seen the troika before. >> the three-mule hitch was common in the 19th century. we used the three mules because we were pulling what liberated us from vehicular support -- there i am on one of the trade markers. >> rinker buck, we're out of time. >> good. >> what a great story. big on the best-sellers list. and when you bundle your home and auto insurance through progressive, you'll save a bundle! [ laughs ] jamie. right. make a bad bundle joke, a buck goes in the jar. i guess that's just how the cookie bundles. now, you're gonna have two bundles of joy! i'm not pregnant. i'm gonna go.

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connection with the shootings along interstate 10 in phoenix. 11 vehicles have been shot at since august 29th. more than a hundred people are dead after a devastating crane collapse at mecca's grand mosque. 200 people were also hurt. democratic lawmakers are calling on president obama to allow at least 100,000 syrian refugees into the u.s. hundreds of thousands have flooded into europe. back to "hardball." i want to talk about the elephant in the room, which in this case is a donkey. do you have anything you'd like to tell us right now about your plans? >> yes. i think you should run for president again, and i'll be your vice president. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was vice president joe

biden with stephen colbert when he talked about speculation about his candidacy for president in 2016. an emotional interview especially when it came to the loss of his son beau. this is how he recalled one of his final conversations with his son before he died. >> he said, dad, i know how much you love me, so you got to promise me something. promise me you're going to be all right because no matter what happens, dad, i'm going to be all right. promise me. this is a kid who, who -- i don't know what it was about him. he had this enormous sense of empathy. and i know i maybe sound like a father. i hope i -- anyway, but -- >> sounds like you love him, sir. >> oh, geez, i mean, i -- >> well, he also told a very candid story about the pain he carries with him into public life. >> i went out to denver and landed at a military base.

i met a whole group of military families which is not unusual in a rope line about 100 yards from the aircraft. it was going great. and a guy in the back yells, major beau biden, bronze star, sir, served with him in iraq. and all of a sudden i lost it. >> well, the vice president, while he said he's not emotionally prepared to decide whether he'll run, even to decide he spent the last two days of hillary clinton's turf in her turf in new york joining governor andrew cuomo at a rally for the wage hike. noorks msnbc telemundo marist poll today finds that joe biden fares better than hillary clinton in a hypothetical matchup against republican opponents. clinton would beat trump by 13 points while biden would beat him by 18. a matchup with jeb bush, clinton 49-45 while biden would beat bush by 8.

i'm joined by the roundtable to decipher all this. david corn, joy reid, the new book, we'll keep talking about this book "fracture," and senior political reporter perry bacon. first of all, what i think is happening is biden's getting bigger in our national discussion. he's a larger figure than he was a few months ago. not just because of the tragedy of losing his son but something else is going on. i would argue power hates a vacuum. an old tip o'neill argument. hillary clinton is not on the ropes but she's in some kind of quicksand. i don't know what you would call it. for whatever reason her numbers drop. joy, there is an opening for somebody. and i don't thing bek bernie's answer. ben & jerry's country, is certainly going to have a following on the campuses. but no one things he'll grab the whole country by their heart.

there's an opening there. i guess that's what biden is tempted by. >> democrats that i talk to who are more obama/biden people than they are clinton people tell me two things. one he clearly wants to be president. a dream he's had a long time. two, he definitely is not in an emotional place where it seems likely he would do it. but he hears the noises. the party is looking for a plan b. he sure doesn't want it to be al gore -- >> how about the way you said that? >> i'm sorry. did i say that with attitude. joe biden wants to be the plan b. he's out there getting his name out there. he doesn't want someone else to be it. >> a lot of people -- he's an older politician obviously. but a lot of people built their entire political lives on putting their names on the ballot in in their 20s and 30s and they won. the old argument is if you want to win, you got to have a seat at the table. >> he even feel a sense of

responsibility. after barack obama, he's the number two democrat. and if you look at hillary clinton -- i don't want to be in the whole panic mode about hillary clinton. >> what they call the bed-wetters. >> but she certainly is at a lower altitude now than she was six months ago, and a lower altitude where she and her people would like her to be. >> and sinking. >> well maybe. she can gain height or maybe go down. >> you were betting on her going up in the next few weeks? >> not the next few weeks but january is a can although ti-- away. biden can say i'm not there yet, but the party may need me and i may want to do this. there's no reason for him to make a declaration in the next couple of weeks. >> do the calculations here. is it something that's going on with hillary that's driving something with him? >> yes. if hillary were doing better, her numbers, she's not in a

moment of panic yet but her numbers are going like this. >> why would someone who can't fathom why we're talking about it. if you had to write it down for an essay question, why am i not writing for hillary clinton when i was two weeks ago. the handling of the e-mail matter. i can't explain it. >> it's less that and more of i'm tired of the controversy of the clintons, the media hates the clintons. you'll be stuck in this clinton story forever if you elect her. >> that's a good bet, by the way. >> i think biden, maybe there's a break from the clintons. >> let's talk about the fact that there's a jack for every jill, there's usually somebody who is contestant for every opportunity. >> so biden comes off. >> biden's the opposite.

he's like a big st. bernard. he's there slobbering and he'll lick your face. well, maybe not. >> he's built for the kind of sort of model of -- >> look at this pep lothis, lov human contact. look at this, every person. >> he's a little -- >> i'm sorry. >> positivity. >> i'm here. >> talk about a valuable commodity in american politics. authenticity. here he is talking, i think he's like to think and maybe he's right about himself. >> ask yourselves the question, would you want a job that, in fact, every day you had to get up and you had to modulate what you said and believed? if you are going to run, you're running for a reason. you want the job for a reason. and if you can't state why you want the job, then there's a lot more lucrative opportunities other places.

>> i can't -- i can't imagine what it would be like to spend nine years pretending to be somebody that you're not. >> who is he talking about? >> himself. >> oh! he's talking about colbert, the guy he's playing. >> i know exactly why bernie sanders wants to be president. i don't know why any of the others want to be president. and that's a problem. what is the log line of the other campaigns? what is their reason for being? >> by the way, now that we have you on, it's not a surrogate, plain, lucy, why does bernie sabders want to be president? >> he wants to take on the banks. he wants to use the power of the presidency to take on wall street. it's simple and a one-liner. hillary's one-liner i haven't heard yet. hope and change. joe biden would be running on the continuation of the obama era. it's simple. >> the democratic wing of the

democratic party? >> that's right. >> the tricky relationship between hillary clinton and president obama. is she going to the right of him on foreign policy and to the left of him domestically and will the base of the democratic party loyal to the president stick with her? this is "hardball" the place for politics.

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telemundo maris poll, latino voters favor hillary clinton over donald trump by a wide margin. that gap widens if joe biden is the nominee. biden 71% latino support versus 20% for trump. we'll be right back.

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mother nature can turn in an instant; sfx: drum beats don't turn back. ♪ introducing the new 2016 ford explorer. be unstoppable. ♪ this is my fight song... we're back and the question will be who's covering the president's back? the relationship with the obamas and clintons has been an unsettled one. now they need each other more than ever.

the 2008 primaries hillary clinton openly patronize his foreign policy views as naive. the relationship was patched up when hillary served as the secretary of state. now the fish susures appear to widens once more. hillary clinton criticized president obama's handling of russia. >> we have not done enough. i'm in the category of people who wanted us to do more in response to the annex sags of crimea and the continuing destabilization of ukraine. >> she second guessed his response to syria. >> we have to bring sufficient pressure on assad to force a political solution in syria, including a meaningful increase in our efforts to train and equip the moderate syrian opposition, something i called for early in the conflict. >> and in response to a question about tough love with israel she

suggests he got it wrong there too. >> i just don't think it's a particularly productive approach for the united states to take because in large measure it opens the door everybody else to delegitimize israel, to pile on in ways that are not good for the strength and stability -- not just of israel obviously -- but of the region. >> the "washington post" ran this headline following her speech. in break with obama clinton lays out tougher world view. we're back with the round table. the new book is called fracture. so you have to start here. i think she will run to his right. i thought this for a long time. more pro israeli, more netanyahu, play to that obvious opening there. on domestic play the challenge she is getting from bernie. >> i think it's a terrible idea. there's always a feeling of quid

pro-quo to the relationship between the clintons and obama in terms of -- >> you mean transactional. >> yes. the tranks actional will fall apart if she tries to go away from barack obama. she need s him in order to win. if she thinks a clinton restoration opposed to an obama will work, she should ask the red states how that worked out for them. >> she said she was a moderate and i think she has been moderate during her career. what does that mean? i'm worried about the word moderate on foreign policy being left on that one. i'm afraid it means hawkish. >> the last thing we said she wasn't authentic. these are her foreign policy views. she is being authentic. we may not like those. she's been more hawkish for a long time. she's been criticizing syrian policy for a long time. >> what were we supposed to do in syria that could have been

done? >> this is what is so great. she can say i would have done it better. >> who are the syrian liberation groups? we can't find them. >> there was no one really good to support. >> to give guns to. >> it is a guest and specter. that is the way republicans say we could have negotiated a better deal. i do think she is burdened by perhaps the assumption that if she is going to be the first elected female president she is going to have to be seen really tough as commander in chief. it's unfair, but i think a lot of people -- >> who says? you say. >> this is my guess. this is not the way with i would like to see the world. i think a lot of voters looking at voting for a woman for the first time. >> what you are saying she has something to prove and that scares me. >> she has. she hasn't been elected president yet. >> i think she is seen as a muscular figure on foreign policy.

everyone sees her as a hawk. no doubt she would be a firm commander in chief. her authentic self is right of where the democrat ic party right now. >> how do you know? >> if you look at the energy in the party it is on the left on every issue, gay rights, gays in the military. it is this thing that the clintons have of believing you have to chase after white working class voter and i think she is hawkish on foreign policy. >> she was senator of new york for a long time. >> she is more hawkish. >> i think some other president could do better. they have had a few that hopefully the next president can solve. hillary is not wrong about that. >> you are going to enjoy your day at the beach with that. >> when we return, let me finish with the legacy of 9/11. serious stuff. you are watching "hardball," the place for politics.

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let me finish tonight with the marking of 9/11. we have to be careful here. there are too many people out there, forces throughout who will use the horror of 14 years ago to drive us toward more mayhem. by the wars we start and consequences that come with them. everyone in this country pulled together after 9/11. the yuppies cheered the firefighters. the democrats cheered w. we were together going in after al qaeda for what it had masterminded against us. then came the exploitation, based on nothing but ideology, the bush administration and its

allies decided here's their chance to knock off a country they didn't like n. that are pair lance a regime, iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 but an easy target. a cake walk to use the phrase of the hour. it went from there to 800,000 people dead. sunni government overfloen thrown by a shia government aligned with iran. the ayatollahs removed the country of iraq torn in to pieces. offices of the iraq army thrown out to become the army of isis and of course america divided. look, some good has come of marking 9/11. we have a better system of keeping our eyes on potential enemies, better safety for airlines, taught to be ready for action. if we see a terrorist operation underway like those brave americans that disarmed the terrorists on the train headed to paris. that reminded me of a positive legacy of 9/11. what happened on 93 on

pennsylvania, when those passengers said let's roll. now there's something to remember if it is ever your moment to do with your very best to match. that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. . tonight on "all in" -- >> i'm suspending my campaign for the president cy of the united states. >> reporter: well, he's gone. the republican hunger games primary claims its first victim. >> and i think he is overrated as a doctor. >> for the first time donald trump has a fight on his hand and video of james blake's arrest. the former tennis star is speaking out again and joe biden opens up to stephen colbert. >> he said, dad, i know how much you love me. he said you have to promise me.