i'm ayman. now, the horror is playing out at delta state university near the mississippi-arkansas line. this is still being treated as an active shooter situation. the search for the active shooter continues this hour. the victim is assistant professor ethan schmidt. officials say no students were involved as of yet. now, the 4,000-student campus on lockdown just four week swoos the new semester. about a dozen area schools on lockdown as a precaution. mississippi highway patrol, local police and the atf all on the scene right now. s.w.a.t. teams are clearing the buildings, room by room. msnbc analyst jim cavanaugh is a retired atf special agent in charge and worked in this area of mississippi. he joins us now. when's the biggest obstacle for police here as they try to

secure this situation? >> well, what they're doing is moving the people away. that's the challenge. they're doing that efficiently it looks like and then certainly search all those buildings for the shooter. but they may have some incase of what's going on here. they reported, mark potter reported earlier that they said the shooter was not a student. so there is some indication they may have some identification on them. maybe this was a robly gone bad, maybe a personal motive. we don't know a random attack, we don't really know enough but locking the campus down. not a large 30,000-student campus. >> yeah. >> they're going to get the people out. >> i wanted to talk to you about that. about the situation of locking down this campus. now, the emergency text out to campus around 10:30 a.m. local time. talk to us a little bit about a procedure of a lockdown would look like on a campus like this? are they preventing anybody from

getting in or out of th campus at this point? >> of course, you are doing everything escorted by law enforcement but once the university put out the twitter alert, an excellent to do, of course, is everybody started barricading in their, you know, their building, their hall, their classroom, dormitory and that's what you got to do, barricade if you don't know where the shooter is. if you can find an evacuation route to get away, you should do that. but if you can't, then you have to barricade and secure yourself and what everybody seems to have done and waited law enforcement and now an orderly evacuation. >> does the orderly evacuation, we have pictures there on the scene of the students escorted out. does that tell you that police are confident that the shooter is no longer a threat on campus or at least not within the vicinity of the campus? >> well, just -- they think that they can safely evacuate the students along the corridor they're walking there with enough police on each side. they feel safe in that respect.

they may not know exactly where the shooter is. could be in another building on cam putz and then officers to go in and clear those buildings to make sure. they also may have leads on the identity of the shooter. it could be a robbery, a personal motive. description. they might think they know who he is and might be searching the far city and county for him, as well. there's a lot going on. we need the update from the police and the sheriff to see exactly what they know. >> all right. jim, i'll ask you to stick around with us. joining us now on the phone from campus is courtney warren, a senior staff write for the local newspaper there the bolivar commercial newspaper. can you give us an update? >> yeah. i'm talking to some of our delta state football players and the quarterback and they were in one of the science buildings so the campus is starting to flood with

students. they just were taken out of lockdown and released from the building so lots of students are around campus and leaving buildings and being escorted out by police officers from each building. >> and, courtney, you said you were speaking to the students. did any of the students hear the gunshot? can they describe for you or did they describe for you what the skeeb was in terms of whether they were on the campus where the shooting took place? >> the ones i just spoke with, they were in a different building and didn't hear gunshots and heard the first thing out of the quarterback's mouth was evan schmidt was an amazing human being. i mean, he was a beloved professor. >> yeah. i wanted to pick up on that point precisely. you say a beloved professor, somebody known to the students. what more can you tell us about him in terms of the relationship on campus and the relationship with the students? >> he was not one of my

teachers. he was -- but he had a great reputation on campus. he was involved in some of the offcampus activities like a trivia night at an off campus hangout called hey joe's and he was there and loved by the staff and a good participant and heard nothing but positive things from the students i have talked to about him. >> do you get a sense with the situation being considered as an active shooter situation, what is the current mood like there? is there still tremendous amount of anxiety? tense? do you feel that people are switching gears a little bit? >> from what i can feel, from the students, just, you know, walking the campus is small and i live very close and walked nearby house and very somber. a lot of students are calling home, letting parents know they're okay. it doesn't seem very tense. a lot of people are thinking

that it's not been confirmed but are wondering if the shooter is even on campus anymore. and so, it's just a matter of going -- a lot of students want to go home. >> courtney, can you talk -- can you tell us about the community there? it is a small university in terms of the number and the size. it seems like almost everybody knew a little bit of everybody in terms of the students and the community. and in particularly this professor. i was wondering if you can give us a background about the community and the student that is go to this university. >> sure. cleveland, mississippi, is the most amazing place on earth. i did not grow up here. i moved here and fell in love with the area and town. bolivar county is second largest county in the state and delta state university is a -- not a large university. and so, everyone is very close. cleveland supports delta state.

delta state supports cleveland. any time you have anything going on, you see on campus, the mayor there. a big event happening for cleveland, you see president la ford there and see, you know, active members -- it's everyone is involved and we're all very close and it's, you know, we all work together. >> and i take it there's still a very heavy police presence on the campus and in the vicinity of the campus? >> yes. they're all still here. it looks like there are a lot of police officers in our coliseum, the big basketball court. the sheriff is here. tunica. there are a lot of officers here. it looks like we're about to have another press briefing in the next few minutes. >> all right. courtney warren, we'll let you get to the press briefing and be with you throughout the course of the day. thank you for that update. mark potter is following the developments from the miami

bureau and joins us now. mark, thank you for being with us. what are you hearing about the ongoing situation? >> reporter: a couple of things. the police are saying they're still looking for the shooter. they are saying that the search is under way. they're asking people to be patient. tweet went out from the university also saying this. i'll read it directly. police are clearing all buildings on campus to ensure the safety of students and employees. no students involved. the other thing we're seeing is that a number of news organizations in the area reporting a possible link and i say possible. looking into the possibility of a link between a murder this morning in mississippi which is down in the coast a little east of biloxi on the gulf coast and the incident at the university. they say that a man there they're looking at as a suspect did have a tie to the university. that he was believed to have driven out of the area in a suv that vehicle matching that description was found at the

university and so they're looking at the possibility that these two incidents hours apart in terms of gentlemen graphic distance may be linked and one other thing that complicates this story right now. the shooter, again, according to police, and we'll hear apparently in a moment at this latest briefing has not been found. students are being removed from the building. and the assurance from police is that no students were involved, meaning not involved as the shooter or not involved we presume in injuries. so that's the latest. it's a very active situation. >> yeah. very much so. >> reporter: no conclusions yet. >> the police treating this as an active shooter situation as we understand it. give me a sense in terms of the resources that have been involved in this from what you're hearing. do they believe that this individual or perhaps a potential suspect that you alluded to as a possible link, how many different law enforcement agencies are involved this if you have a sense of that investigation right now?

>> reporter: well, everybody in the state from the governor on down is involved. mississippi bureau of investigation has come in. they have a task force. local authorities are here. again, the governor's watching offering all of her resources necessary. that is big deal. and they're throwing everything that they can into it. i understand the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms a federal agency is also involved and the person they're looking at there is a possible suspect in that case is -- does have ties to the university, to delta state. there's more being reported. we haven't confirmed it and going with the basics right now but i can tell you it seems clear that the police are looking for a link between those two incidents, one occurring earlier this morning and then the incident at the university and they're trying to see if there's a tie. trying to nail it down. as they try to find the suspect. >> all right. mark potter, thank you for that update. we'll check with you throughout the course of this hour as the

story develops. waiting if for that press conference, i want to bring jim cavanaugh back with us. he worked this area of mississippi before. how do law enforcement officers go about trying to figure out whether that second shooting that mark alluding to there, whether or not it's connected to the one we have seen at delta state? >> well, that vehicle that mark described is going to go a long way into seeing if the connection is there between the murder on the coast and going to be, you know, four and a half hour drive away from cleveland. so, the f the vehicle's found on the campus, that gives them leads if that's connected. >> and, jim, you know the area of mississippi pretty well. you also know this campus well. i was going to ask, do you think that there would be obviously, you know, circuit -- closed circuit television or security on campus itself that may be important clue right now for authorities as they try to figure out the suspect and talk

to us about the campus, difficult for him to get away? talk to us about the area that surround delta state university. >> well, right. not difficult to get away at all. if you shot someone and you got back to a vehicle or got to the surface streets, you could disappear quickly. i mean, carjack somebody. walk. get in another car. have an accomplice. no, it wouldn't be hard to get away. as far as cameras, i don't know that they have anymore than any other campus. i'm sure there's a few. but whether or not they were at job hall, you know, where the professor was killed, or showed egress or ingress to that remains to be seen. the investigative side is big and trying to put together who the shooter is besides the search of the buildings. we'll see which one bears fruit first. >> all right. jim cavanaugh, thank you for that update. we'll follow the story over the

course of the hour. next, good news/bad news for hillary clinton and donald trump in brand new poll numbers. i bet you can guess who the good news and bad news is for. it's back to work for kentucky county clerk kim davis. we'll tell you what happened when a same-sex couple tried to get a marriage license today. and california's wildfires turn deadly. hundreds of homes already lost the fast-moving flames. we are on the scene. we'll tell you all about that straight ahead this hour on msnbc. i could get used to this. now you can, with the luxuriously transformed 2016 lexus es and es hybrid. ♪

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house, as you can imagine, great news for donald trump and ben carson. they're dominating the latest "the washington post"/abc news national poll. bush is trailing with 8%. trump and carson also outperforming the rest of the field in new hampshire. trump's holding the lead and carson jumped 12 percentage points since late july. across the aisle, there's also great news for bernie sanders and online survey by cbs and yougov gives him a 10-point lead of hillary clinton in iowa and while they're not as reliable as traditional polls, the downward trend is not ignored and she is also lost significant grund on the national stage, down 21 percentage points since july. the biggest decline among women despite a push to shore up that demographic. today clinton is hosting two women for hillary events in

iowa. here she is earlier this afternoon. >> republicans often say i'm playing the gender card. well, if supporting women's health and women's rights is playing the gender card, deal me in because that is exactly where i want to be. >> all right. we are going to get to the republicans coming up but first the democratic field and for that we start nbc news senior political reporter perry bacon. clinton's national decline of women mirrors last week's nbc news marist poll with clinton down in new hampshire and 24 points in iowa. i think the question a lot of people asking is, what is driving this all of a sudden? >> i think the two factors that i would say are driving it the most is seeing among women and men to some extent the rise of bernie sanders. the fact that sanders is doing so well, his popularism is

catching on, one thing that's going on in i with and new hampshire and the national polls in particular is that vice president biden is getting more -- he's not running yet but getting more seriously into the race. his appearance on stephen colbert with attention and doing pretty well in polls, as well. combine the sanders and biden rise, as well. that in part explains why hillary's numbers are going down with two what looks like viable candidates running against her. >> the question becomes, is there anything she can do to try to reverse this trend around? she was holding two events specifically for women. women for hill to be precise. talk to us what you think the campaign can do to try to get the voters they have lost back. >> i mean, you saw one thing they did last week. trustworthy numbers going down. you see her being more forthright, talking last week about i'm sorry about the e-mail controversy. i think you will see her trying to do that, trying to get out in

front of that. you saw her on "ellen" last week and i think jimmy fallon a couple of days and designed to make her look more approachable and that kind of thing, as well. i think that's part of it and we're still i think we may be understating the fact that she is doing well among minority voters not as prevalent but the south carolina polls show she's doing really well there and one factor to keep in mind. sanders with whites and liberals and represented very well in mn hn and iowa. more diverse voters tend to favor clinton. >> thank you for that. let's talk more with jonathan allen, chief political correspondent at fox. thanks for joining us. so today in iowa, clinton is promising to crack down on sexuse sexual assault on college cam s campus campuses. is this part of the effort to reverse losses of women? >> this is something i think she wanted to talk about all along. certainly comes at a time where

she's suffering losses among women but it ties into a larger thing going on with the democratic party right now and actually really a bipartisan thing looking at it. senator mccaskill introduced a sexual assault bill in the senate just before the august recess. 33 co-spore sons and both iowa senators and both republicans and new hampshire sflors. i think this is an issue that she was going to talk about some point anyway. this is the time she is doing it. obviously, doing these women for hillary events, as well. but this is not something -- not terribly surprising that hillary clinton wants to crack down on assault on campuses. >> one of the biggest issues dogging the campaign, the issue of e-mail servers. it is a major concern for voters. 55% don't like how she's handling the scandal according to the poll there. 54% think she is covering something up and another 51% believe clinton broke government

regulations. in fact, "the washington post" reports that the server might not have been wiped clear and many of the 31,000 deleted e-mails could be retrieved. clinton says these e-mails were personal correspondence but you say that the scandal is not likely to change voters' opinions. >> well, i think the originalment that i'm making is if you really know hillary clinton, nothing coming out and should be surprising. she is secretive after years of being under attack by republicans by being under investigation by the media. and ultimately, what she tried to do with this server was try to protect her e-mail both work e-mail and personal e-mail from public view. i'm not saying that's a good thing but i do think that it's kind of in keeping with the way that clinton aggressively interprets rules in her way. i think it is something that, you know, is explained in some -- at some level by her

natural and through nurture her skepticism about the intentions of people who want her information. >> let's talk a little bit about bernie sanders gaining in the polls and today he brought his message to somewhat describe as an unlikely venue that of liberty university, the christian school where ted cruz announced his bid. take a listen. >> the issues of abortion and gay marriage are issues that you feel very strongly about. we disagree on those issues. i get that. there are other issues out there that are of enormous consequence to our country and, in fact, to the entire world that maybe, just maybe, we do not disagree on. and maybe, just maybe, we can try to work together to resolve

them. >> so sanders went on to speak about issues like income inequality and the pope. do you think that he's found some common ground that could help him in the general elections beyond the primaries? >> i think there are a few things going on here. number one, not everybody at liberty university is a republican primary voter and some of those folks may vote democratic an appealing to them. number two, i think trying to expand the democratic party and expand who he's talking to to show democratic establishment officials that he's got an opportunity to expand the field in the general election. if he were to get to a general election, he needs to win some crossover votes and the things are going on here. and look. there's a strong argument to be made that at a religious university like liberty there are going to be folk there is that look at the income ine qult and the state of that in the united states and think that's immoral. >> jonathan, appreciate that. thank you for joining us.

still waiting for the presser on the shooting at delta state university a. professor is killed there. the gunman on the late run. in kentucky, kim davis is back to work and not issuing same-sex marriage licenses quhachlt that means for couples who want to get married in that state. straight ahead.

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all right. developing now, governor brown had declared a state of emergency in parts of california has firefighters continue to battle fast-moving wild fires. hundreds of homes and buildings destroyed and evacuated. at least one person is confirmed dead. gina kim is live in california north of san francisco with the very latest. gina? >> reporter: good afternoon, ayman. today brought a little bit of good news in that we had cooler temperatures than all weekend long and a fire official we just spoke to said that is nowhere

enough to counteract what we're seeing right now. the winds really started to kick up and forecast to be about 20 to 30 miles per hour by this afternoon and if that actually does come to pass, that will be devastating and a huge setback for this fire. while we have been standing here this afternoon, spots we thought were dead were coming alive with smoke and flames and never too careful in that situation like this. this fire out of control so fast and furious, it even took firefighters by surprise. and that's because of the perfect storm combination we have of severe drought with high winds and a recent heat wave so the tally now is more than 400 homes and businesses destroyed. that one person who died, we don't know more details than that. 10,000 people remain under evacuation orders with no idea as to when they will be able to go back home. >> all right. gina kim, thank you for that update. now to the developing story following and that's the

shooting at delta state university. let's take a listen to the update held by authority there is. >> still under lockdown. and will continue to be throughout the day. we have canceled the classes through night classes tonight and we also want to say a special thanks to law enforcement officials. as you have seen on the campus, they have come out from every aspect of this city, state, county, we appreciate everything they're doing to apprehend the person of interest and we feel confident in the work they're doing and we thank them. >> again, i'm going to reiterate what happened this morning. at approximately 10:18 a.m., the delta state university police department received a call of shots fired in job hall. they immediately contacted the cleveland police department. upon officers arrival, gentleman was found deceased in his office who was later identified ady ei

ethan schmidt. we have a person of interest at this time and actively pursuing every lead we have. at the conclusion of this press conference, we will be released a copy of his photograph to the press. and we ask that anyone that knows this person or has contact with this person to please contact the delta state university police department 662-846-4155. the cleveland police department at 662-843-3611. or the bolivar county sheriff's department at 662-843-5378. the person of interest that we're looking for is mr. shannon lamb. he is an employee of the university. and at this time, we are following up on leads and we have nothing else to release at this time. >> what is his connection to professor schmidt? >> i have no -- i would not

release any information on that at this time. >> you believe he may have involved in a homicide elsewhere? >> at this time, we did have information that we could be involved a homicide in goshade. >> another -- >> do you think he's still on campus? >> at this time, we are not -- we don't think he's on campus and not taking anything lightly. we're at the process now we went in to lockdown. we made sure that the students, faculty, staff and administration were safe and at this time we're methodically going building to building to get the students out and let them leave and go home safely. our local high schools were locked down and at 3:00 we will have a significant police presence at these schools for the students from those schools to be able to go home to their parents also. >> was margaret school in the elementary school locked down? >> what was that? >> margaret green and the

elementary school lokd down? >> necessary. >> is he connected to another homicide here in town today at mr. schmidt's home? >> we have no information about another homicide here in town this morning. >> do you know if he had a record in the past? >> i do not at this time. >> you said an employee. which department did he work in? >> i'm not sure. i was advised he was an employee of the university. >> former employee? >> current employee. no students were injured. >> how many shots were fifred? >> no, sir. we're not releasing that information. >> weapon used? >> no, sir. >> are you going to release what he's traveling in if smshl poshl? >> we are not. we will have another press conference in approximately an hour to an hour and a half. and we will at that time hopefully have more information for you concerning this. that's all the questions. >> our press conference and let them get back to command staff. if hang out we'll have a copy of the picture of person of interest. >> all right.

there you were hearing officials in mississippi with an update on the situation and handing out what they say are photographs 0 of a person of interest who they have identified adds shannon lamb. they have described him as an employee of the university. they did not release any other information about the suspect but when the police official there was asked of whether or not that individual could have been involved a possible shooting, he did say that there was that possibly. he is being described right now as a person of interest. let's bring back analyst jim cavanaugh, a retired atf special agent in charge and worked this area of mississippi in the past. jim, your initial reaction to the information that was shared from that press conference? i think the thing that stands out at me the most is a person of interest, identified him as a potential employee of the university. and even possibly a person of interest involving that other shooting that we were hearing about from mark potter. what did you take away from that

press conference? >> personal motive, a personal grudge a. murder which is about a 4 1/2-hour drive down to the coast and this shannon lamb identified as a person of interest, as an employee of the university. and he -- also, ayman, professor schmidt was killed in his office. he could be dead, committed suicide on the campus somewhere. in an office, in a building behind a dumpster somewhere and the police haven't found his body yet. the car that's been left on the campus apparently belongs to shannon lamb. who was the suspect in the coastal murder and the employee university. so he didn't go back to the vehicle. deceased or did he spot a policeman on the way out and, you know, go another way? on foot or have to get access or commandeer another vehicle. they have a lot of work yet to do but they have an identity of

a person they're looking for. if the person is actually responsible for these two murders, then anyone who knows this guy or had prior contact with this guy in any way, family, friend, associate, co-worker, would be in danger. he may be out if he's free and not deceased and may be trying to seek revenge on anyone who crossed him. >> yeah. >> anybody coming in contact with him would be in danger. >> they have not given the all clear yet and certainly as you described that possibility he may have taken his own life and or because they don't know where he is at this particular point and not takes chance and high schools are still lockdown and heavy police presence around 3:00 p.m. local time at the schools release students back home and a heavy police presence there they said. the fact that he is a potentially -- or as they described him an employee of the university, does that make it harder for authorities? this is somebody when's familiar with the campus, access into buildings and more importantly know the area in and around

delta state university. as you mentioned earlier, possible routes and highways to get out of that area quickly. >> right. that's exactly right. he could have gotten out and know how to do that quickly or hiding in an office in a building, in the gym, in the campus building somewhere. just waiting. he could be barricaded, waiting for law enforcement to arrive to engage them or deceased. or he could have escaped. all these things are possible now but he's an extremely dangerous person if he's responsible for the murders as the police think. so, it's very dangerous time in cleveland and until this guy is located and like we discussed if anybody knows him or prior contact, you shouldn't go near him. he could be on a murderous spree right now. >> all right. jim cavanaugh, much appreciated. we'll have more information in the course of the hour. you heard police say they may

have another briefing. stay with us. we want to go back to politics. thousands expected the turn out tonight for donald trump in texas. but not all of them are fans. we'll tell you about that. and what miss alabama thinks of the gop front-runner, you know it's what folks are talking about if it's a miss america question. we're back in three. you are looking at two airplane fuel gauges. can you spot the difference? no? you can't see that? alright, let's take a look. the one on the right just used 1% less fuel than

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all right. you know how it goes. they say everything is bigger in texas and tonight donald trump is expecting big numbers at an arena event in dallas. organizers say as many as 20,000 could attend the rally at the american airlines center. normally home to the dallas mafrs. even if the crowd numbers fall short, the donald's poll numbers are holding strong. new monmouth university poll out today has trump with a 11-point lead on the closest competitor, dr. ben carson. that lead is even wider in the

"the washington post"/abc news poll. ali vitale is in dallas ahead of the big event and expecting supporters and potentially some protesters, as well. right? >> reporter: yeah. as was with a few of the trump events so far, a tale of very many supporters and few protesters outside. the number pales in number considering the people in the campaign behind me right now. tickets for the event did sell out a few days after putting them online. some of my friends in dallas and said they were seeing tickets on sole for $200 resold so definitely some interest here in dallas. i talked the people out front lining. the event a few hours away from starting and they feel that washington is bought and sold for so long and donald trump is the guy to come in and do what he says he's going to do and people filing in now and everyone's expected to see a

show tonight. >> all right. ali vitali live from dallas for us. thank you for that. for more on the numbers and means for the debate wednesday, i'm joined by political reporter elise viback. thousand for joining us. what will happen with these numbers wednesday night? >> could be a pile-on. we see a lot of lower tier republican candidates trying to swipe at trump to get the poll numbers. you know, the people i'll be watching in particular is carly fiorina, there on the stage, who trump attacked for face the other day. we know about that and ben carson and jeb bush. those are the interactions we'll be watching here. >> yeah. i mean, one of the things we have seen with a lot of candidates is they have been unwilling so far to take on dmp directly sort to speak and seen that from ben carson and shied away from confrontation with donald trump. take a listen to what he said on

sunday. >> it doesn't bother me because i recognize that i have plenty of energy. you know? operating on people for ten, 12, sometimes greater than 20 hours at a time, making critical decisions after many hours of intense work. situations come up. >> you actually -- >> you don't have to be loud to be energetic. >> so carly fiorina on the other hand, she seems to be looking more for a direct fight. who can we expect to lead the charge against trump in the debate? >> well, i think we are going to see it mostly from carly fiorina's side. she is very well spoken. she is excited to be on the debate stage on wednesday and i think she is really going to go for it. she is showing in her recent events willing to take on trump and fight back against the comments and i think she is the one and ben carson might need to work on the energy more compared to trump. >> and the latest person to take

on donald trump probably is surprising to many, miss alabama, the contestant asked about the gop front-runner last night. take a listen. >> i think donald trump is an entertainer and i think he says what's on a lot of people's minds and the republican party should be absolutely terrified of all the attention he is taking from incredible candidates like jeb bush and chris christie who could do the job of president of the united states. and if i were republican, i would absolutely be der if ied 0 of that. thank you. >> like everyone else who's taking on the donald so far, at least, she lost. what do you think we're to make of how much she's dominated this contest and the national conversation so far? >> that's right. i mean, donald trump is everywhere. everyone is weighing in on him. i saw a recent set of interviews with celeb tips talking about him. i mean, the energy is there. we see events like the one that is are going to happen tonight in dallas drawing the crowds and the fact of part of a miss america contest, not surprising.

i haven't seen trump's poll numbers in alabama but i don't know if her, you know, friends over there would necessarily agree with her. those were pretty strong comments. >> all right. thank you very much for that. we'll be watching what unfolds in 48 hours ahead of that debate. there's also huge news, former california governor and movie star arnold schwarzenegger is taking over as host of reality show "celebrity apre apprenti apprentice." he said i'm thrilled to bring my experience to the boardroom and continue to raise millions for charity. trump tweeted out congrats to my friend. he'll be great and will raise lots of money for charity. celebrity apprentice returns for the 2016-'17 television season. next, why she did it. the explanation former prison seamstress gave nbc's matt lauer for helping two convicted

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you handle life; can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? >> turning now to an nbc news exclusive, the "today" show's matt lauer sat down for a jail house interview with joyce mitchell, the former prison worker at the center of the summer's prison break in upstate new york. in the conversation, she explains why she helped the convicted killers escape and what life has been like for her behind bars. take a listen. >> and did anybody ever stop you and say, you know, joyce, back

off a little bit, get back behind the desk, treat them like inmates, stop being such a nice person, stop being friends with them? >> they never actually told me to stop, but they did say, you know, you're too friendly, you know, you're too nice. >> when they would say that to you, would you stop? >> i would a little bit, but at the time everything happened, i was going through a time where i didn't feel like my husband loved me anymore. and i guess it was just me, i was going through depression, and i guess they saw my weakness, and that's how it all started. >> so you were looking for something, you were looking for attention? >> yes, their attention made me feel good. >> both sweat and matt were violent offenders, something they never let mitchell forget.

>> rich matt was in prison because he killed a man who was his boss? >> yes. >> and then cut his body up? >> yes. and he had no problem telling anybody about that. he actually had a photocopy of the article, showing when he went to court. and he would show it to anybody. >> in some ways, as some sort of street cred, as to say, this is what i did and i'm proud of it? >> yeah. a new officer would come in, he'd show him what he was in for. >> david sweat's a guy who shot a sheriff's deputy 15 times. so these are two guys who committed heinous crimes. >> yes. >> and these are the guys you allowed yourself to have a friendship with? >> yes. everybody tells me i'm way too nice. >> when did they start asking you for favors? >> a few months before they decided to get out, they were

asking me for things. >> joining me now is joseph jack lone, retired nypd detective and now professor. she's already admitted her guilt. when you watch this interview, do you think it's a play to get a reduced sentence? what do you think the motivation behind agreeing to do this interview is? >> she's looking for rationalization, but she's going to have a tough time, because she makes contra dictery statements. >> she told matt lauer that she feared for her family's life. listen to this. >> it's nerve-racking because it's not someplace i would ever expect it to be. i did wrong, i deserve to be punished, but people need to know that i was only trying to save my family. >> are you buying that? these men were behind bars. she sounds like she's really

concerned about her family's safety. >> yeah, i'm not buying this. there was no chance of them ever getting out, unless she helped them to get out. >> but you're not worried they may have had contacts in the outside world, networks of people, nothing? >> well, her husband actually works in the prison. so if that's the case, they should have asked the warden to have both of them transferred out of there. >> let's talk about this relationship that was i guess friendly in some ways and in some cases went beyond a friendly relationship. how common is this between guards and prisoners? >> believe it or not, it's more common than you think. there was somebody in washington that impregnated four different guards. if you have somebody like joyce mitchell, she admitted she was in a vulnerable place. these guys are master manipulators. >> the question i think a lot of people are going to be asking, how do you avoid future joyces? >> we have to look strongly at the recruitment, selection, and training of these people,

especially psychological profiles and maybe spend more money in that aspect. >> she talked being depressed in that interview. >> and when everybody knows what's going on, telling her she's being too friendly. she referred to it as being too nice. that was code word for them saying, you're getting too close to these guys, back off. >> how realistic to transfer prisoners out, where they don't have a chance to develop a rapport with guards? >> it's difficult to do it. but in a case where somebody is being threatened or somebody is sexually assaulted, you have to be able to do that. and every law enforcement agency has a plan for something like that. >> and we were talking before about the interview and the warden. what does the warden gain in allowing an interview like this to take place? >> i guess looking at it, he couldn't make the prison system look any worse than it was by allowing the cameras in.

but there's no benefit for them to do it. the issue, the warden has to give the okay. >> for an interview -- >> especially a recorded one. it's very difficult. you can't even bring a voice recorder into some of these. as a law enforcement officer we'd have to leave our cell phones in the car. so to get this type of equipment in, it had to come from high up. >> thank you very much. that's it for this hour at 3:00 p.m. keep it right here, i'm back for another hour. we'll follow all the developments in the shooting at mississippi college, the very latest information right after the break. today, jason is here to volunteer

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we're following breaking news out of mississippi this hour where an active shooter is still on the loose after shooting and killing at least one person on the campus of delta state university. police have identified 45-year-old shannon lam, a current employee of the school as a person of interest. >> the person of interest that we're looking for is mr. shannon lam. he is a employee of the university. and at this time, we're following up on leads, and we have nothing else to release at this time. >> according to police, ethan schmidt and assistant professor of american history was inside his office when he was shot and killed. police have begun to clear all academic buildings on campus to