you know at the beginning, three, four months ago, well he's just doing this for fun. he's doing this for his brand. i need this like for my brand. [ laughter ] but he's doing it for his brand. one person, a real loser said,

he's a clown. he's a clown. now they are saying oh, how do we stop this guy. no more clown. i haven't heard the word clown in a while. they don't use that word any more. >> if we stand together, if we do not allow them to divide us up by white and black and hispanic, by gay or straight, man or woman, whether we're born in this country or born somewhere else, if we stand together, there is nothing, nothing, nothing we cannot accomplish. thank you all very much. outsiders are killing it. >> the outsiders are killing it and can you go back a really long time and i know last night we were all probably watching trump. and, you know, i picked up the phone and called you and said are you watching this. you said yes it looks like a convention. >> did it. >> when they did the shots, and

it took a while for him to actually show, the establishing shots how big this place was. it actually from the ground in the back, it looked like a convention that we would see next year and here we are in september trump with 18 to 20,000. bernie sanders around 18,000. >> two separate rallies. >> in two separate rallies in september 2015. >> one at liberty. >> our reporter kelly o'donnell took that wide picture. she said this is not the kind of crowd you see at a pre-primary campaign rally. this is a general election crowd. >> that is something you would see in ohio a week before election. >> exactly. saturday before election day. >> i remember one time in 2004 seeing john kerry pull a crowd like this outside in madison,

wisconsin, mike barnacle and i said oh, oh, bush is in trouble. in september 2015. >> you're going to have to go back, i think. my guess is you have to go back to the spring of 1968 in this country to see crowds gathered for two candidates, gene mccarthy, robert kennedy, both coming from the outside against incumbents. the crowds are incredible. the messages, the messages are even more powerful and more incredible. bernie sanders speech was incredible. >> at liberty >> incredible. >> listen to what you say. you have to go to the spring of '68. that was after the primaries were already going. that's when everybody was already engaged. >> six months before the election. >> we're more than a year out. let me say for everybody talking how bad things are going in american politics, gene robinson look at bernie sanders crowds.

look at donald trump's crowds. look at the elites sneer. i want that triple crown. let the elites sneer all they want. let them say bernie sanders is a socialist to bankrupt america, donald trump is a bigot. blah, blah, blah. look at those people involved in american politics. something is happening out there that hasn't happened in our lifetime. >> show me the establishment candidate for either party who can draw those crowds, who can excite people that way and i don't see it. i thought bernie sanders, as barnacle said, was amazing yesterday going to liberty college, going into the belly of the beast and giving what i thought was a really powerful speech. he didn't convert a lot of people but he got a lot of respect forgoing there and doing that. donald trump, you know, he looks

and acts like a front-runner. not just the crowds, but he's changed as a candidate, i think. he's gotten better at this. and so people who want to dismiss this whole thing -- >> it can't to be done. >> mark halperin in salt lake city you've been covering campaigns, you've never seen anything like this. what do you hear out on the campaign trail? what's causing this? >> reporter: both those guys as gene just suggested got better as candidates whereas people they are competing against largely haven't. so remarkable in so many ways, bernie sanders socialist from brooklyn, vermont goes to liberty university and is confident and expressing his heart his vision for america. donald trump a billionaire from queens, from manhattan, goes to dallas. not only draws that big crowd

but gives them a message that they want to hear as what gene suggested a lot of confidence. it's not just outsiders, it's not just authenticity. it's guys who know why they want to be president and are expressing it really clearly. >> go ahead. >> bernie sanders speech specifically if you read that speech, he's talking to more than just, obviously, more than the people at liberty university. he's talking to a group of people in this country, millions of people in this country and i think this has gone unnoticed by most politicians or unaddressed by most politicians who feel unmoored from the foundations of the country since 2008 when the economy collapsed. they think no politicians care about them. they lost jobs. they lost homes. they lost hope. they lost confidence in the country. that's what bernie sanders is speaking to. in a sense trump is addressing that. >> that's exactly what donald trump is speaking to and what

bernie sanders is speaking to. they are both speaking to people that are not lining up perfectly politically. mika, i wouldn't use the word clowns. clowns in the national media for years have been trying to put evangelicals into little box. i've said it repeatedly on this show in 1994 when i started hiring for people in washington, d.c. if they were young, college students, they want to talk about abortion, marriage, et cetera, et cetera. by the time i left in 2001 they were in birkenstocks, they wanted to talk about feeding the hungry, helping the poor. today they are talking about the refugee crisis. when i went down to the hurricane katrina the federal government wasn't there. you know who was there? people from liberty college. christians. jews. a lot of other people of faith. >> we got a lot to get through and, gene, i watched you on

"hardball" last night you thought the a.d.d., the american people might help clinton get through her crisis. these people don't have a.d.d. there's a new national sentiment out there. i'm afraid it might be the noisy majority. we'll see. let's take a look. hold on one second. leapt get through some of this stuff. a new poll of new hampshire republicans shows a familiar theme, outsiders gaining theme while the establishment fades. donald trump has a firm lead of 11 points over ben carson who has tripled his support. governor john kasich, senator ted cruz and carly fiorina seeing big gains while jeb bush's drop is five points. >> donald trump still first. ben carson up 12 points. john kasich in third place. he's showing right now. that's a guy to look at moving

forward. of course jeb bush minus five points. no way to put good light on that right now. they got to find their reason for running and that's their challenge. >> last night donald trump's biggest applause was a 50 second stand ovation when he called for an end to illegal immigration. trump talked about the attention his opponents are getting and laid out specific terms for how president trump would bring manufacturing jobs back to the united states. >> so, the debate. i hear they are all going after me. whatever. whatever. i hear it. the polls come out and we're really killing it. we're killing it! so the polls come out and everybody is surging but trump. they don't want to say i'm surging. i went up to 40% today in new hampshire. you saw that.

40%! ben carson, good guy. i think he's 11 or 12 and they are saying -- here's the headliner. carson surging. i said what about me? where's my name? i'm at 40, where's my name? it's unbelievable. do you know where my name is? they don't know where my name is either. by the way, you can see in the back they have the best view. can you see it's really my hair. i'm self-funding my campaign. i'm not taking blood money. i'm not doing it. [ cheers and applause ] i'm not doing it. and i feel a little bit awkward and a little stupid. i have guys offering me millions and millions of dollars -- you know when you're in number one place then the blood suckers

come out, the lobbyists, the special interests, the do for months. don we love you. guys i haven't heard from in ten years. i turned $5 million last week. $5 million. i can't take it. i close my eyes. it's not natural for me to turn down money. i turn it down. because once i know the game. once they give you -- you sort of owe them. what would president trump do? president trump. trump, trump, trump. what would president trump do? so i called the head of ford or whatever company but i called the head of ford. i would say congratulations, i understand you are building a massive plant in the mexico and taking a lot of jobs away from us in michigan and other places. i don't like that. i don't like it. i just don't like it. he'll say well, mr. president,

it's wonderful, wonderful for the economy. oh, just great. wonderful for whose economy? not for our economy. what i say is the following, i don't want you to do that and if you do it you're not going to have any cars coming across the border unless you pay a 35% tax. that's it. that's it. and they are going to say -- they are going to say to me, mr. president, please, please -- i guarantee you. let's say i make this call at 9:00 in the morning. by 5:00 in the afternoon i think the deal is done they move back to the united states. >> he done have to finish the sentence. he done finish any sentences. everybody knows how the sentence is finished. we're sitting here mouths agape. you said while it was going on all of your friends are skidding off the road. they are going to trump or

carson. >> all my friends who don't work in politics, real people that i know are calling me about two people, donald trump and ben carson. they want to know more. you know i work for jeb bush. they said what does jeb have to do? he has to win something. a debate. news cycle. a poll. there's a piece by a former colleague of mine about trump emasculating. >> the first 30 minutes was donald trump talking about donald trump. >> in the polls here where i am in this poll. here's who likes me. we talked also dr. >> george loser. >> bombed when he came to

florida. >> let's look at bernie sanders. >> four and a half months ago we began this campaign and some of the media was saying well, you know, you got the senator from a small state. he's a fringe candidate because nobody in america really thinks that the american people are prepared to take on the billionaire class. [ cheers and applause ] well, it turns out that in virginia, in the west coast, in the midwest, in new england, it turns out people are prepared to take on the billionaire class. [ cheers and applause ] now in my view and i say this as

somebody whose voice is hoarse because i've given dozens of speeches in the last few months. it is easy to go out and talk to people who agree with you. greensboro, north carolina, just last night. all right. we have 9,000 people out. mostly they agreed with me. tonight we'll be in manassas and thousands out and they agree with me. not less important for us to try to communicate with those who do not agree with us on every issue. >> so, mark halperin, bernie sanders off that speech and said look there are things we disagree on. we won't solve that today. where we do agree our questions of social justice, poverty, income inequality and he got big ovations when he talked about those things. >> one way people have been

behind bernie sanders is he's not a movement candidate trying to win with a niche electorate. he believes his message of economic equality, the haves versus have notes will have deep resonance. there's plenty of people in the evangelical community in their own daily lives and view of social justice will find deep resonance. so i thought yesterday and mike's comments suggested he agrees, yesterday was one of the most important events bernie sanders has done not just the symbolism but message and execution and showing his heart. imagine if hillary clinton's staff proposed to her she go to liberty university and try to do an event like that. >> off of what you just said, here's one paragraph from bernie sanders speech. to liberty university, uniquely different crowd for any democrat to appeal to. this is bernie sanders yesterday. there is no justice, i want you

to hear this clearly when when the top 1% of one tenth of america owe almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%. in your heart you have to define the morality of that. >> person people are responding to that message. i draw you to what donald trump said in the middle of that speech yesterday in dallas where trump said that the rich guys were taking all the money. he said there's 200 guys in america who are doing great. and yet it's the middle class, what was the word he said, the middle class is getting decimated. people rose to their feet. people stayed up on their feet. gene robinson, you can, even though they are completely different people with completely different world views, you can draw a straight line from what bernie sanders said in lynchburg, virginia and

manassas, virginia to what donald trump said in dallas, texas about the few, the rich, the super rich who are getting richer and richer by the second, literally by the second while the middle class continues its spiral downward. >> you know, this is a powerful message and you're right. there is a commonality in that speech of speaking directly to the beleaguered middle class in a language -- trump's words are different from westerny's words but they are in the same language with a directness that other candidates haven't found. they haven't found that voice. you see that connection being made. now, you know, you can win the presidency 14 months out from the election. without you can lose it 14 months before the election and arguably jeb bush is in the process of losing it. and rick perry already has. scott walker is, i would say,

losing the election. i think the candidates who are in trouble are the candidates who don't understand the power of this message, and who haven't found words to kind of get in on this because this is, inis the narrative of this election right now. >> the power of these messages and the implications of some of the policy proposals. the "wall street journal" looked at the cost of bernie sanders proposal so far. the price tag $18 trillion over a decade. the journal describes it as the largest peace time expansion of government in modern american history includes $16 trillion for medicare and social security expansion. trillion for infrastructure. and billions for other programs like free tuition and paid leave. he plans a tax increase that calls for $6.5 trillion in revenue over a decade. >> still ahead on "morning joe" we'll be talking about something happening now in syria, a

dangerous development. russia's new build up with syria and we're going to be talking to state department spokesman john kirby and get his thoughts on what the united states is doing to help the unprecedented number of refugees pouring into europe. lester holt there today and getting some emotional stories. >> plus the chief strategist for romney 2012, stewart stevens weighs in on the gop field. "the washington post" on hillary clinton's rapid erosion of support among women. >> we'll show hillary. hillary was speaking yesterday. >> we'll show that. plus show some of these new numbers. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands

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>> if we stand together, if we do not allow them to divide us up by white and black and hispanic, by gay or straight, man or woman, whether we're born in this country or born somewhere else, if we stand together there is nothing, nothing, nothing we cannot

accomplish. thank you all very much. >> i'm not one of those who ever thought this was going to be a straight shot. i've been in and around enough campaigns to know that there's an ebb and flow. polls go up and down. people's attention and decision-making changes over time. i feel very confident about where we are in the campaign and very committed to doing everything i can to make my case as effectively as possible to women and men. and i think that will be successful. >> so while donald trump and bernie sanders was speaking to thousands, hillary clinton sat down in a more controlled setting taking on donald trump in an interview with mario lopez. >> well, you know, i am watching this with some concern because i think a lot of what he has said has been really inflammatory and

destructive. he has not put forth any real policies. he's made a lot of claims. and i think it may reflect on the republican side some of the pent up frustration that they have. i'm going to let them deal with however they choose their nominee. but i sam certainly looking forward if he's the nominee to debating him. >> meanwhile hillary clinton's e-mail sag j continues drip by drip. politico is reporting 55 messages deemed to include classified information passed through commercial earn mail services like g-mail. the site goes on to say the government has done little to retrieve or delete copies much e-mails that still exist on those platforms. asked about their efforts to recover classified information from e-mail serves, an official said the department is taking

appropriate steps. >> no they are not. the state department and now the justice department circling the wagons for hillary when this sorry saga comes to an end people in the justice department and state department are putting their reputations and careers on the line because they are holding her to a much lower standard than they are holding anybody else to. you know, the revelations every day come out. there are new revelations every day. you have the same few people spinning. i one clinton people that have been supporting clinton for 25, 30 years. what i don't understand, barack obama allowing his state department and barack obama allowing his justice department to not aggressively protect the rights of americans and the freedom of information act and they are not doing that.

i know they want hillary to win so his legacy will not be undone by a republican president. but they shouldn't undo their legacy in the process by turning a blind eye to all of this. and i'm afraid that's what the state department is doing and the justice department is doing. >> gene, a "the washington post" abc news poll shows clinton down 20 points in the democratic field and shows her biggest decline is among women. her support among female democratic voters was 71% in mid-july and no, it's at 42%. >> let's look at that number first. 71% in july. support among female democratic voters. 42% today. those numbers are staggering. >> gene how do people lose their

attention for this? do you think that could happen? >> well, you know, i think if you look at those numbers, if you see a lot of her support seems to go to joe biden. some of it goes to bernie sanders and some goes to joe biden. if joe biden is in the race, that's a different picture. from what i hear from joe biden he's not in the race. and i think it's less than even money that he does get into the race. if you look at the overall support number for hillary clinton, you know, 42% with biden in the race. without biden in the race according to "the washington post" poll it's 56% and bernie sanders is at 28%. that's still a strong lead. it's not a prohibitive lead any more but a strong lead. so don't count her out. >> i'm not. i'm not. i just don't see the attention going away. i don't know if the timing was there but these numbers came out

and then all of a sudden you saw hillary clinton on stage talking about donald trump and women. >> on the same day. >> take a look. >> you've heard mr. trump insult and demean women haven't you? educationally throws some heat my way. he recently said i don't have a clue about women's health issues. he would do a much better job for women than i would. and as i've said that's a general election debate i'm really looking forward to. in fact he says he cherishes women. well that's nice. [ laughter ] but if it's all the same to you, mr. trump, i rather you stop cherishing us and respecting us instead. [ applause ] >> willie geist? >> yes. it's a message she's used before. she's used the don't cherish line before. in contrast she can draw a big

crowd. it's just performance delivery. completely different than bernie sanders. >> she's looking down -- >> is there a problem. >> she's reading her notes. >> she's delivered that many times before. so it's not -- >> can we just do what we do on this show. can we do what we do on this show and tell the truth. can we actually tell the truth. that was a horrific performance. >> if that's part of your message and you're hillary clinton no wonder your numbers among women went from 70 to 40. >> she's reading her notes when she was comparing republicans to islamic extremists. >> talk about the iran deal -- >> she's a former accomplished candidate who is hamstrung to handle her e-mail wound. the e-mail wounds perhaps lethal

have prevented her from getting a message out. >> look at her. >> i'm looking at it. >> she's also clearly -- she should fire most of her staff. she's so overly stage managed that she sets up right there a curtain between her and any audience that she has. the audience watching her on tv or audience in person. she just sets up a curtain between herself and the audience. >> mark halperin we saw bernie sanders set an auditorium of young evangelicals on fire. did the same thing in manassas. we saw donald trump, 20,000 people in dallas. set the place on fire. going after the richest of the rich. the richest 200 in word that paul krugman agrees with on that part of his message.

we have hillary clinton reading notes to a small crowd and even her attacks of donald trump have her looking down. i think it's fair to talk about performance. when pat buchanan in 2008 said hillary clinton was one of the best political athletes he had seen in some time when she was behind but going after barack obama, i think it's safe to say and fair for us to say on this same show, in this same spot in 2015, she looks like one of the worst political threats. >> she's still in the 80s. >> reading those notes. what gives? where is hillary clinton of 2008? >> well her back was against the wall. i always thought her performance during that period was, in fact, overrated. people have made it more than it is in retrospect.

in the television era the more likeable candidate wins the election. the exciting candidates do well. she and jeb bush both who i thought and a lot of people thought would be the major party nominee as few months ago, both of them are going to have to look inside themselves, push the staff away and even fight for their party's nominations and that performance, we all agree is nowhere good. nowhere good enough to fight for her nomination and win it cleanly. she may win it through attrition, but winning it cleanly with a message she believes in, that's not even close. >> mike? >> go ahead gene. >> i was going to say there's a difference between the two sides however. there's an interesting question that the "post" poll asks. do you want the next president, do you want somebody from outside of the political system or somebody with experience in government. republicans, half republicans say we want somebody from outside. you see that in poll numbers

with trump and carson accounting for more than 50% of the vote. on the democratic side a harrington majority said we want somebody with experience. so that helps hillary clinton at least towards the nomination. she's being an insider and having experience doesn't potentially kill her as a candidate the way it potentially kills jeb bush. >> you can be an insider -- i would argue you can be an insider and still reach the public. i give you joe biden. he's an insider. he reaches the public. >> wow. >> what do you do, joe, if you're a candidate or human being whose back is against the wall on anything? what do you? >> you talk to people like they are human beings. >> you ask for people. in need your vote. >> i got to say this. if hillary clinton and jeb bush -- i think jeb can do it but 30, 40 years into this game can't speak from their heart about the issues that matter most for them for hillary clinton we heard for 30 years it's women's issues.

if you have to read staff notes about why donald trump doesn't get it on women's issues when you're fighting for your life you have got serious, serious problems and i'm not picking on her. i would say the same thing and i have said the same thing about people like rick perry in the last campaign. we said it about jeb bush in this campaign. and scott walker. i love scott walker. love him personally. love him politically. we talked about how horrible his performance is. it matters. at the end of the day it matters. especially if somebody has got 18 or 20,000 people on the other side and you're like reading notes. >> we have to go to break. >> this is the question i think this hour. i think gene brought it up or maybe mark brought it up. or jeb bush and hillary clinton able to push their staff aside and actually not play massive

front-runner political candidate? >> not only are they able, to i think the staff would like nothing more. i would not count either of them out. >> we're not counting them out. >> i think both -- i can't speak to hillary clinton but when jeb bush tells his own story, tells the story of his marriage, tells the story of his children and wife -- >> what's going on? >> nicole, people aren't waiting for this. >> people are waiting to vote. >> they are not sitting there with baited breath. >> is it to jeb bush to come out from behind this curtainy side yes. >> they have their focus groups. they look at their polls. every morning they have their messaging meeting. do you think bernie sanders or donald trump have a messaging meeting. you know what their message is? >> i've been to those meetings. they are overrated. >> i don't need a poll. i know what i believe.

and i know when i knock on 1,000 doors i know what they believe. i'm not spending $10,000 on your stupid poll. i don't need a poll. i got 62% of the vote in a race i wasn't supposed to even compete in. you don't need all these focus groups. it's literally strange technology life out of hillary and jeb. >> you know what happens when you have 100% courage in your beliefs, liberty university calls yeah i'll thereabout. >> everyone loves you. >> bernie sanders -- >> still ahead he wrote the book on reagan. so how does he size up the republican field? he joins us in just a bit plus the must read opinion pages ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪

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up next support for u.s. ground troops to fight terrorism. there's some surprising new numbers in how americans view foreign policy. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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bad to worse and now vladimir putin moving military hardware into syria and looking like russia is going to have an airbase in the middle east for the first time in decade. how much worse can it get in syria before we do something >> a very difficult problem and it has the prospect of just dragging out the civil war in syria even longer if russia tries to prop up assad. unclear what the primary motivation here is except putin wants to flex his muscles and have a role to rescue assad or help decide what successor government ought to take over after assad. hopefully it's more of the latt latter. >> michael crowley, do you sense from your reporting is everybody on the same page, the white house, the pentagon, the state department, are they all on the

same page with regard to going forward in syria? >> no. i'm not sure they are. i asked somebody recently who tracks our syrian policy very closely. who is in charge of our syrian policy. he said which syrian policy. we're running -- there's cia aid going to the rebels. the pentagon has this ill-fated training program that produced several guys that have been kidnapped or dispersed. diplomatic efforts that's constant and changing. it's not coordinated. it's impossible for everybody to be on the same page. what we're seeing russia do is frustrating and another big affront to the u.s. because after the iran deal you heard secretary of state and john kerry and others saying it looks like vladimir putin is open to working with us to get assad out and get a political settlement which the president said is necessary. you have to have a grand political deal. and putin is starting to sound

reasonable. now we see him doubling down. doesn't sound he's ready to work with us. >> worse than square one. just worse than square one. willie? >> congressman it's willie geist. as you watch this humanitarian crisis unfold spreading from the middle east up across europe with tens of thousands, millions more behind them streaming in to europe, how much responsibility do you think the united states bears for not intervening in syria soon center >> it's a very hard question because our options are limited. had we gone in earlier, had we introduced ground troops the situation could have been different in many respects. we could be there ten years from now with ground troops much as we are in iraq and afghanistan much it may have thwarted this humanitarian catastrophe or immersed us into it to a greater degree. i think along with europe, along with the rest of the world we have a humanitarian responsibility here.

whether we could have fended this off or not and i think that means we have to for one thing accept those that have applied for immigration in the united states, that have families here. >> congressman, until syria is stable, the humanitarian crisis continues. we're treating the symptoms of the much larger disease which is in syria. it's an unstable chaotic syria. >> joe, i agree with that completely. the problem is that what are the recommendations for action in syria? this is where it always gets difficult. >> again, i don't mean to be short with you here but let's talk about that because it's something that we've been debating for some time, actually off-screen. we heard it was difficult when 20,000 people were killed by assad and when 40,000 and when 80,000, when 100,000, when 200,000. then when isis started

spreading. we've been wringing our hands as a nation. i'm not blaming the president. we've been wringing our hands as a nation over syria now for two years and it only keeps getting worse. we're wringing our hands now and the russians are going into syria. at what point do we as a country come together on a policy to take care of the not only the humanitarian crisis, but the geopolitical crisis that's occurring right now in syria? >> joe, i would love to say now is the time to do that and here's how we can do it. the problem is it gets very difficult when you get to here is how we do it. after iraq and afghanistan there's no appetite to do that, no appetite among the american people to see american lives lost to separate largely muslims fighting other muslims in syria.

i think we have a limited range of option. we're utilizing those to the best we can. i think you're right, we taught have a new focus and a comprehensive review on our syrian policy to decide is there a different way forward but i wish i could tell you what that way ought to look like. >> it's hard to here when you look at lester holt's reporting and you see a child that was burned and lost his family as one of millions of tragic stories of migrants now fleeing, trying to get a better life. >> by the way, the images we have been seeing over the past couple of years, barrel bombs being used by assad, chemical weapons being used by assad. >> should the u.s. play an active role in world affairs now as opposed to 2014? 64% to no to 35%.

also shared leadership role in terms of the u.s. role in the world. should we have shared leadership? 63%, the dominant leader the u.s. 28%. i mean it's convoluted. we don't want to do it alone that's for sure but do we want to step out and let the middle east just roll. >> no i don't think so. the event is tomorrow for those who want to go. i hope you tune in or join. nobody wants you to go completely alone. the appetite for having a more active foreign policy whether there's a divide between democrats and republicans, has really risen. >> by the way, michael, let me just -- while we keep this up. we have a lot of people that listen driving into work. support from various anti-terror activities. air strikes, 77%. assassination of leaders, 73%. >> that's obama. >> the most shocking, u.s.

ground troops, michael now 60%. six in ten americans now support ground troops. >> nine in ten americans don't have anybody in the military. >> thank you. >> i found this number striking. another one that blew me away. 54% of republicans and i think maybe 44% of democrats said they would support u.s. troops taking out iran's nuclear facilities if iran cheats on the deal. we're seeing the isis effect. another finding in that poll is that the number of americans particularly republicans who call islamic fundamentalism a critical threat to the u.s. has just skyrocketed since the last time they did this poll which was of course before these terrible beheadings that began last summer, last september. and so the american public is in a much more confrontational mood and much more sense we have to get back in the world and join this fight that's come to us. >> check out michael's discussion on these findings,

the chicago council.org tomorrow. >> joe, can i say very quickly, i accept those numbers but those numbers would change very quickly the moment american boots are on the ground, our people start getting killed. we've seen this in the past where there's great support for getting in and great initial support. that can change if we run into difficulty once we're on the ground. we need to take those numbers with a certain grain of salt. >> all right. thank you so much congressman adam shif. thank you michael crowley. that's true with iraq and -- >> we were more weary -- >> people want to know there's a plan. they can shift to the other direction. >> still ahead, carly fiorina fires back at donald trump for those comments about her looks in "rolling stone" magazine. we'll play you her new ad. we now know which celebrity will replace trump on "the apprentice." maybe the only person with a

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>> i wish it were me. it's not. it's arnold. arnold schwarzenegger. he'll start next year. yesterday trump responded to the choice. >> you know whose going to take the place of trump? arnold. arnold. arnold schwarzenegger. good, right? i think it's a good choice. he's a friend of mine. i approve it 100%. i'm with him 100%. i think he'll do great. we'll raise a lot of money for charity. i'm still in i still have a big chumpg of it. a lot of people don't know this. it's a minor detail. >> run aware favorite for his you're fired line, hastalavisa baby. >> 7:00 hour. packed.

17,000, 8,000, 12,000 size of crowds that donald trump and bernie sanders spoke to on the campaign trail. >> that as hillary clinton sees her support among women fading. we'll look into what's behind those numbers and we'll go live to europe for new developments on the refugee crisis there. nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel has new reporting straight ahead on "morning joe." when your windshield needs fixed, trust safelite. for these parents, driving around was the only way...

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fashion item right now? >> trenches and like parachute coats. >> let me show you a baseball cap that might change your mine. trump describes this as the hottest fashion item there is. agree or disagree >> i disagree. trump done know what he's talking about. >> no. >> no? nothing about this is fashionable. >> trump you're fired! >> it's pretty awesome. it's a snap back. snap backs are pretty cool. >> would you mind modelling this for us? >> i'm not a trump supporter. i'm not. i know his ideology. you can't be that racist. we're all good people. i'm mexican and not a drug dealer. >> what have you got there? >> i just bought a donald trump make america great again hat. >> i see you got the cold lettering. >> i never get but the best. >> and turn. strike a pose. >> i love it. >> that's funny. that was funny.

>> mark halperin and john. >> welcome back to "morning joe." nicole wallace. mark halperin, eugene robinson still with us. and steve schmidt and in washington national political correspondent for "the washington post" karen. >> it's great, mark halperin that was so funny. also great this morning. we have so much to get through. i'm glad of the two bloomberg people that we have here. we don't that have one with low t. >> low energy. >> slumped over at home. >> he's a good guy. i really like john. he's a good guy. okay. so we're going to show a lot of clips. you are in the "wall street journal" this morning because you said on this show last time that donald trump, emasculates jeb bush every day. has dmangd since the last time

you were sneer. >> nothing has changed since the last time we were here but we're coming up on this moment where jeb bush and donald trump will be next to each other on the debate stage. >> what does doe? >> in the seat of jeb bush campaign i want to campaign joyfully for the presidency. he done have an opportunity to campaign joyfully. he's in a brawl. he has to fight hard. he has to fight hard for the future of the republican party, for the future of the country and he's going to have to brawl like the great irish, you know, middleweight, irish mickey ward. >> i tell you what, his brother was able to dissect al gore with just a look. you don't have to go out and swing and punch and flail. a lot of times just left his words speak for themselves. >> flailing is different than fighting. he has to stand up. he has to convey strength. everything that donald trump does in this campaign is about the conveyance of strength since

the first moment that he entered the campaign. >> until last night when he actually took over an entire arena. >> oh, my gosh. remember when mitt romney went to an arena. this was a crowd of 15,000. his biggest applause of the night some say it was 20,000 came when he called for an end to illegal immigration. he got a 50 second standing ovation. trump also talked about the attention his opponents are getting and talked about the blood money that they are getting as well. >> so, the debate. i hear they are all going after me. whatever. whatever. no, i hear it. the polls come out and we're really killing it. we are killing it! [ cheers and applause ] so the polls come out and everybody is surging. but trump. they don't want to say i'm surging. i went up to 40% today in new

hampshire. you saw that. 40%! [ cheers and applause ] ben carson, good guy. i think he's 11 or 12 and they are saying carson -- here's the headline, carson surging. i said what about me? where's my name? [ laughter ] i'm at 40! where's my name? it's unbelievable. do you know where my name is? they don't know where my name is either. by the way can you see in the back they have the best view, can you see that it's really my hair. i'm self-funding my campaign. i'm not taking all of this blood money. not doing it. [ cheers and applause ] i'm not doing it. and i feel a little bit awkward and a little stupid. i have guys offering me millions and millions of dollars. you know when you're in number

one place then the blood suckers come out. the lobbyists. the special interests. the donors. don we love you. guys i haven't heard from in ten years. i turned down $5 million last week. $5 million. i said i can't take it. i go like this i just close my eyes. it's not natural to me to turn down money. but i turn it down. because once i know the game. once they give you, you sort of owe them. the silent majority, it's back. it's not silent. i think we should call it, maybe we should call it the noisy, the aggressive, the wanting to win, wanting to win majority. that's what it is. >> so the noisy majority is born. steve schmidt when you were on this show a couple of months ago, mika was saying donald trump could win or could play a role in this campaign.

ing shocked, stunned, deeply saddened. you came on immediately after only other one that agreed. i'll ask you now fast forward a couple of months. can donald trump win the nomination >> absolutely. he's the front-runner for the nomination. he's in complete absolute control of the battle space of the campaign. this is his to lose now. no other candidate -- >> his to lose. >> no other candidate. >> is it more likely than not at this stage that donald trump win? >> only trump can defeat trump. he's too high for anybody else to reach. there's two different conversations happening in this campaign. he's saying something fundamentally that republican voters believe. >> what? >> barack obama has wrecked the country. he has -- >> doesn't scott walker say that, doesn't ted cruz say that? >> barack obama has succeeded in his mission of fundamental change, of transforming the country and donald trump with this message make america great again is saying three things.

we were once great. we no longer are. there's no other candidate who has the courage to say it in a way that resonates with the base. but we can being a great again. this is a powerful message for the republican electorate. >> you said only trump can beat trump. he said so many things that would have disqualified any other candidate. i don't know how trump beats trump at this point. >> you see a backlash to the political correctness. we've had this cycle of apology where somebody says something mildly offensive, the media sits back are your is going to apologize, apologize, apologize. the candidates are forced to kowtow and apologize. donald trump is raising both middle fingers -- >> while that's happening and everybody in the press gets whipped up 80% of americans are going what? what are they apologizing for? >> that's exactly right. >> a lot of the press,

influencers are watching what? so you get a guy that goes out there and says things that make us go did he really say that? and the american people are going why does he have to apologize to john mccain? why does he have to apologize to megyn kelly. >> we're at a moment in time, we're hearing from the american people. and they don't like what's going on. fundamental disconnect between the elites of the country, the bay area, los angeles, new york, washington, d.c. and now the american people through donald trump are channelling their contempt. >> and bernie sanders. >> and we're hearing from them. >> also what i'm noticing is that if you get trump with a gotcha question people feel defensive for him. >> right. >> they get mad at the question. mark halperin you got i think an article or a piece coming out

can donald trump be stopped. what's the answer? >> republican politics you go back to george h.w. bush it's about who can eliminate the other guy. who has the ability to define themselves on their terms and define the opponent on their terms as well. trump for decades has defined himself. his brand subsumes the chaos. he's engaged in more interaction wither to candidates already. they don't want to interact with him but they must. he dome napts the coverage. a lot of republicans are trying to figure out what's the right frame to put on trump. make him seem corrupt. make him seem crass. not up to commander-in-chief. you have to devote substantial resources if you want to take out trump. right now it's hard to kill someone who is shooting at you. trump is shooting at anyone who is in his way. he's more effective at

diminishing his opponent even better than bill clinton. >> the point i brought to you mark halperin, even the surprise by hugh hewitt, who took an approach that i usually chide women for take. it's my fault. i'm sorry. literally what he said. it's my fault i didn't ask the question right. >> he's going to be a moderator. he has to put himself in the space it's not about him. >> i can't wait to see how donald trump is handled by the moderators and candidates tomorrow. we have some new polling. new hampshire republicans show donald trump with a firm lead of 11 points over ben car swhon has more than tripled his support in the state. governor john kasich, senator ted cruz and carly fiorina seeing big gains. >> minus five for jeb bush. john kasich making a good move. ben carson jumping up 12 points. >> let's look at the democratic

side. vermont senator bernie sanders spoke in front of two more big crowds. last night the democratic challenger held a rally in virginia and drew a crowd that the campaign estimated to be over 8,000 people. earlier in the day he addressed a bigger audience of 12,000 people at liberty university the university founded by jerry falwell. here's bernie sanders at both events. >> four and a half months ago we began this campaign. some of the media was saying well, you know, you got the senator from a small state. he's a fringe candidate because nobody in america really thinks that the american people are prepared to take on the billionaire class. [ cheers and applause ] well, it turns out that in virginia, in the west coast, in the midwest, in new england, it

turns out people are prepared to take on the billionaire class. [ cheers and applause ] now in my view and i say this as somebody whose voice is hoarse because i've given dozens of speeches in the last few months. it is easy to go out and talk to people who agree with you. i was in greensboro, north carolina just last night. all right. we had 9,000 people out. mostly they agreed with me. tonight we'll be in manassas and thousands out and they agree with me. that's not hard to do. but it is harder but not less important for us to try and communicate with those who do not agree with us on every issue. >> this guy spoke nor than 20,000 people yesterday, two separate rallies. he's been doing this for weeks.

he's 74 years old. steve, is this, again, america saying this is what we want instead of us telling them what it's going be. >> we look at hillary clinton's polls. we forget sometimes to look at polls in the two dimensions that we need to look at them. first polls are a snapshot in time. but also an indication of momentum and direction. when you look at hillary clinton's numbers she's in a state of decline whether it's a state of terminal decline is too early to tell. bernie sanders is having a huge moment. he's channelling, i said earlier this year, elizabeth warrenism. he's communicating to a democratic primary electorate that has moved significantly to the left over the obama years and he has every potential to defeat hillary clinton in the first two states iowa and new hampshire. >> can i say something about elizabeth. trump and sanders have both co-opted her message about a rigged system. the rigged system was to me her

most on the point, in her book and you've seen her here a lot of times. talking about a rigged system was the entry point i think into the mind of the electorate, not just the progressive liberals. >> donald trump and bernie sanders were speaking off the cuff to thousands of people hillary clinton was taking on trump in a sit down interview with mario lopez and also on the campaign trail in iowa. >> well, you know, i am watching this with some concern because i think a lot of what he has said has been really inflammatory and destructive. he has not put forth any real policies. he's made a lot of claims. and i think it may reflect on the republican side some of the, you know, pen up frustration that they have. i'm going to let them deal with

however they choose their nominee. but i am certainly, you know, looking forward if he were the nominee to debating him. you've heard mr. trump insult and demean women, haven't you? educationally throws some heat my way. he recently said i don't have a clue about women's health issues. he would do a much better job for women than i would. and as i've said that's a general election debate i am really looking forward to. in fact he says he cherishes women. well that's nice. [ laughter ] but if it's all the same to you, mr. trump, i rather you stopped cherishing us and respecting us instead. [ applause ] >> meanwhile "the washington post"/abc news poll we first showed you yesterday has hillary clinton down more than 20 points in the democratic field since july. her biggest decline is among women.

support among female democratic supporters is now at 42%. these are the most surprising numbers outside of every poll that has donald trump up by 30 points that we've seen all year. karen, the numbers were shocking even more surprising to a lot of us around this table and nicole was talking about it. the quotes from some of the women how they want to vote for a woman but not hillary. >> yeah. it was extraordinary even while that poll was in the field i decided to go to two states where hillary clinton did very, very well in the 2008 election. new hampshire and ohio where she beat barack obama by 10 percentage points primarily because she had -- she beat him two to one among white women. and there is still a deep reservoir of support, a lot of -- i talked to an 88-year-old woman who said if she doesn't get elected i won't see a woman

president in my lifetime. but i was surprised by the number of women who said i'm surprising myself by not supporting her. i talked to one woman 20 years old who said when i was 13 and she ran the first time i was thrilled at the idea there could be a woman president. and i'm really shocked that i can't support her now because 13-year-old me would be very disappointed in me. part of this is going to sanders, you know. part of this is just sort of waiting for biden. again, these are women, i think, she can win back, but she's going to have to get into an environment where her emails and her reaction to temp males are not dominating the news. >> not just that, steve schmidt we talked about it last hour talking about performance we were critical of scott walker, critical of a lot of people, mike huckabee. but hillary clinton's performance there was dismal while bernie sanders is in the

words of hank williams setting the woods on fire in these speeches across virginia, she's reading notes every three words while she's attacking -- you know she can't draw these crowds right now. >> when you watched that my first reaction, am i watching hillary clinton or watching the "saturday night live" parody of hillary clinton on this. the performance level is beyond abysmal. it's horrendous and completely out of step with the mood of the country right now. so this campaign begins with her hopping into the scooby van. remember that? heading off to iowa to the land of the people with a stop at chipotle and conventional wisdom in washington, d.c. wow what a great tour this is fantastic what a great launch. no one is buying it. >> and the thing is it's hard to say -- again i like her personally -- it's hard to say but this is -- somebody said around this set i won't reveal

the source we're getting into rick perry 2012 territory right now. when you have attacks where she's having -- it wasn't me. mika still hoping she can still vote for hillary. a lot of democrats are bummed out. but, karen, it is stunning that women who want to vote for hillary clinton are now moving away. how much of that is waiting for joe biden? >> again, that has completely unsettled the race. but there are a number of factors at work. it's not so much that they see anything within the e-mail controversy that is illegal or disqualifying. but what it does it reminds them a number of them told me of just all the drama of the '90s and we don't want to go back to this. but i also talked to younger women and they are actually taking a look at her policies versus bernie sanders, one woman

was worrying about sending her daughter to college and she said you know he gives her free tuition and hillary clinton would savor 17 a month. >> you mentioned the '90s. feels like the approach to the campaign is '90esque. >> she and jeb. >> everyone is watching everybody. >> she's campaigning with ropes around her. jeb is not. we don't see it. that's their fault. he's not campaigning like the '90s. >> when i see jeb bush at a plal event, it's out of the '90s. i'm sorry. scott walker is too. marco rubio is too. they are playing -- they are playing another game that trump and bernie sanders -- >> they took the board and threw it out. >> hillary clinton is still speaking like '90 campaign. >> one person who is standing out and making waves is carly fiorina. responding to donald trump's

recent comments calling her unpresidential. she talked about what he said in the "rolling stone" magazine article saying look at that face would anyone vote for that. yesterday her campaign responded to his comments about women with this ad. >> ladies, look at this face. [ cheers and applause ] look at all of your faces. the face of leadership. the face of leadership in our party, the party of women's suffrage. 61-year-old woman i am proud of every year and every wrinkle. >> oh, my gosh. >> i got chills. >> that's how you do it. >> i got chills. that's how you do it, willie. >> we've been saying for months

she's proved us right at the first debate, she's proves us right again here with this ad. she's running a great campaign. that's from a super p.a.c. not directly from her campaign but that's how you turn a moment like that. without making a cheap attack back at donald trump turn it into something like that ad you see right there. mark halperin where is carly fiorina in this race right now? she got that little boost coming out of cleveland. where does she fit in here? >> she's gotten a little boost and the super p.a.c. on the campaign side needs to step up. baepting trump now means winning a state. one of the first four. i don't think the party can stop him if he wins three of the first four or two of the first four and so there needs to be someone who steps up and win as state and that's why john kasich i think at this point is the strongest position to stop trump. where can carly fiorina win? where can she defy expectations? right now iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, nevada, she's moved up in those places but

she's ninth position to overtake carson or trump and that's really the table stakes to be considered someone who can become the nominee. >> i was in new hampshire this weekend. i went to three events. carly fiorina and kasich stood out. both had stood out. both connected with the crowd. >> when you look inside these polls we clearly have two brackets. outside bracket, you have to put cruz in there as the anti-establishment person. and those brackets are much larger than the establishment candidates by 20 points or so. carly fiorina can trade back and forth between these two brackets and she may be the only candidate in the race that has the ability to do so. when you look at her now, i'm not sure she's on trajectory to be the nominee. >> as we go to break i want to play that ad one more time. >> karen thank you.

>> remarkable reporting. >> still ahead on "morning joe" decades after the cold war and the u.s. is staring down russia once again. we'll get reaction from state department to vladimir putin's stepped up aggression inside the syrian war zone. plus the republican presidential candidates often name drop ronald reagan but would they govern like him? biographer joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" and here's carly. >> ladies, look at this face. and look at all of your faces. the face of leadership. the face of leadership in our party, the party of women's suffrage. 61-year-old women i am proud of every year and every wrinkle. [ music playing ] hey! let me help with that.

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. ronald reagan was a democrat and sort of liberal. i knew him well. i liked him, he liked me. >> i often joke that i know ronald reagan's birthday because it's my wedding anniversary but truth be told, i know our wedding anniversary because it's ronald reagan's birthday. >> the party i believe in.

[ cheers and applause ] >> i was so scared. i was worried. >> we have a new cbs "new york times" poll that shows donald trump in the lead but tightening race for the republican nomination. we've seen this in a couple of polls. trump at 27%, ben carson at 23%. that is a rise of 17 points last month. i keep saying, i don't get the ben carson rise. well, a lot of people do. because he's skyrocketing up. you know, i heard him the other day. we got jeb bush all the way down at 6. huckabee 6. rubio 6. ted cruz five. carly fiorina four. this is a typical ben carson interview. i heard him on fox and he's

sitting there talking about jesus and bible. i'm a southern baptist. i'm an evangelical. i love listening to people talk about jesus and the bible. after talking about jesus and the bible and what a good christian he is for five or six minutes, he answered the next question by saying, you know, we need a campaign where people talk about the issues. you can say that jesus is part of the issue. i think there are a lot of candidates that love jesus. but just talking about jesus isn't going to get russia out of syria. just talking about jesus isn't going to take care of the refugees. just talking about jesus isn't going get the working class back to work. it won't stop the rich from getting richer and the poor from getting poorer. i went to church, you know, four times a day -- what i'm saying is that i need to understand

this ben -- how does ben carson go up 17 points when he's talking about jesus? everybody knows i love jesus. i swear. what's happening here? >> did you see him in ferguson? did you see him in harlem? >> yes. he's inspiring. how will he save entitlements for the next generation? how is he going to be beat isis? how is he going to take care of the refugee crisis? gene robinson, do you have the answer? why is he going up 17 points? >> i don't have the answer. i have the question. the question is, okay, we're aggregating and i'm guilty of this too. i aggregate the outsider vote on the republican side and 50% is for trump or carson or carly fiorina, throw her in too. but is that the same vote? are those the same people? are the same people, similar people supporting trump and carson or is there a separate

segment that carson has identified and that he appeals to? that's a question i haven't seen answered. i think that's a question we need to try to answer. >> gene you're right. in every single poll we've noticed, steve schmidt you add up donald trump and you add up ben carson and it's always 50% plus. >> right. >> every poll we've shown these two gentlemen. now i understand taken together this is a rejection of the republican party over the past 30 years. promising things they never deliver on. promising to balance budget when the deficit sloeds. promising to pay down the debt. promising to take care of entitlements. promising us less war when we get more war. what i don't understand what are the issues that drive people to ben carson other than personality. >> we live in a social media age where every candidate, every business, everybody is their own broadcast platform. the evangelical community for

our purposes sitting here in new york like an iceberg with its mass below the water line there's a very sophisticated communication infrastructure in the evangelical community where ben carson is very prominent, very famous, very well received, well-known movie and he's hardwired into that community and it's taking place off the radar screen of the national media. >> this is why mike huckabee -- i tuned evangelical vote. i got 80% it. mike huckabee won iowa without any support. without any staff. he had one college guy going around with him. these are national polls. they just keep going up. >> i was going to say we have a guest waiting but you can ask these same questions of donald trump. what exactly is his plan to stop the refugee crisis? we don't know. people who support these two don't care. >> they don't believe the plans are worth the paper they are written on. >> let's go los angeles.

craig shirley is with us. we heard these republican candidates trying to grab the mantle of ronald reagan. which candidate is the closest? >> none of them, really. there's a certain part of reagan in every one of them. but frankly candidates and presidents like ronald reagan don't grow on trees. john patrick digins a liberal historian, his last book the official historian of the american left of the 20th century, wrote books about the women's most and environmental movement. his last book was about ronald reagan. this liberal historian ranked reagan as one of our four great presidents. i'll say one thing. very few people saw that reagan was going to being a great before he was elected president

and as i've said before is that ronald reagan wasn't ronald reagan before ronald reagan was ronald reagan. >> ronald reagan wasn't -- craig i know you remember this, election night 1980, ronald reagan was being mocked by frank reynolds and other people on television asking what the hell was going on out there. nobody believed that ronald reagan was going to be president until he went over 270. nobody in the establishment saw it coming. nobody. >> the establishment elite couldn't get over in 1975 gerald ford gave a speech at the gridiron dinner and mocked ronald reagan. he said he's not turning prematurely gray he's just turning prematurely orange, mocking his hair. the elites also derided ronald reagan before he was president, during his presidency and after his presidency. only in the last ten years since the old-timers in his passing we've seen elites take a second look at ronald reagan. >> everybody trying to wrap the

mantle of reagan around their campaign. anybody in this race that has any characteristics or any sparks that remind you of reagan in '76? >> sure. everybody is running or most of running as insurgents. he ran as an insurgents against gerald ford. i see reagan's essential midwest goodness. in cruz i see his fervor. rand paul i see his libertarian philosophy. for a time reagan described himself as a libertarian conservative. donald trump i see the insurgency which made him always challenge the establishmen. ronald reagan always challenged conventional wisdom. >> so do you think you see it more in trump than you see it in the others and you don't feel comfortable saying it? you know you do. >> i don't know. i think it's interesting. this is certainly one for the

history books. we've never seen probably a candidate like donald trump before. you know, you have to go back to went disciple wilky a business executive who came out of nowhere that won the 1940 nomination. he was a populace insurgent. so was andrew jackson. in a way trump is a continuation of outsider populace outrage that's had a long history in this country. >> by the way, if you're at home and you're near a computer google craig shirley, newt gingrich, andrew jackson. i want traces back the populism of andrew jackson to donald trump. >> the book is "last act" and out in october. craig shirley, always great to see you. >> craig thank you. >> take care. >> i want to deliver my newspapers now. >> okay. you do that. >> gene, thanks a lot.

you are, of course, a lot of people say you were the wendell wilky -- >> pre-eminent wendell wilky. >> the obama administration admits russia is ramping up its military involvement in syria's civil war. we have a lot to talk about with state department spokesman john kirby. keep it right here on "morning joe." here is a simple math problem. two trains leave st. louis for albuquerque at the same time. same cargo, same size, same power. which one arrives first? hint: it's not the one on the left. the speedy guy on the right is part of an intelligent system that creates the optimal trip profile for all trains on the line. and the one on the left? uh, looks like it'll be counting cows for awhile. so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized.

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up next europe clamps down on the surge of refugees but the mass migration continues. richard engel is live in hung with the very latest and we'll speak with admiral yon kirby at the state department as well. keep it right here on "morning joe." [whirring of drones]

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wherever the journey takes you, carry american express gold. it's more than a card. it's the gear that gets it done. two decades of border free travel across europe is beginning to unravel today as more eu states follow germany's lead and impose border controls in the face of an unprecedented influx of migrants, one of the toughest new laws coming in to effect in hungary. after that country effectively closed off its border with serbia. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is near hungary's borer in serbia. what are you hearing from officials this morning? >> reporter: good morning. i just finished and interview with the official government spokesman the hungarian government has not been speaking very freely to journalists and

not making a clear case of what its doing. this government spokesman told me that the policy now is clear. that the border is closed. that anyone wanting to come in now has to apply individually and cases will be evaluated on case by case basis for asylum. that most of those cases will be rejected. that a holding area in a stateless zone between hungary and serbia has been established. people who want to come in have to go there and ally. we're not seeing thousands of people crossing over into hungary en masse waves moving up and down train tracks. that has stopped. so in a 24 hour period we've seen a very dramatic change. most of the border with serbia has been closed off with a fence. police and army soldiers are patrolling that border and anyone who tries to cross it illegally will be arrested and

deported, potentially facing criminal charges in this country. the government sees this very differently than just a refugee crisis. the government says that only about one-third of the people who have crossed in of the 200,000 people who have crossed in are claiming to be syrians. the rest are from 100 different nations around the world and the government says just because they show up doesn't mean that they have the right to enter this country and that they were freed from persecution when they were in serbia, frequent persecution in greece and macedonia as well. >> richard engel, thank you very much for your reporting. let's bring in john kirby. john, welcome back to the show. we have a lot of questions. i want to start with this one. aren't there people in the state department high up that saw this coming, this suffering is impossible to even measure at this point. >> it is breathtaking you're right about that. secretary kerry has been focused

on this for quite some time. we have a working group that he set up at the state department to get at some additional openings, things we can proposes the friends and partners in the region to deal with things we c propose. we're very focused on this right now. >> nicole. >> how do you respond to the argument that when the united states of america drew a red line and then refused to stand behind it, that that is one of the original causes of what we're seeing right now? >> i think the way we would say is the original cause is bashar -- >> but we drew a red line and refused to enforce it. do you see any correlation to what we're seeing now or unrelated? >> again, people are leaving the country for various reasons but

we think, again, the brutality that assad keeps visiting on them. dropping barrel bombs on this is not the way. that's why trying to go after isl and working with allies and companies like russia to work a political solution. >> it's willie geist. what's different than the coalition strategy than it was three or four years ago that clearly hasn't worked, what's the new strategy that will work better? >> it's not about a new strategy. we have a strategy that we believe is effective against isil. some of the refugees are leaving

because of the continued presence of isil inside the country. that's why it's important we don't just approach this from a military perspective. look, it's complicated, we know that and it's going to take some time. this is a determined enemy. >> the country inside syria is still a mess. do you see signs of progress, do you see something that has been working that we're not seeing from the outside? >> in terms of politically, bash ash al assad -- bashar al assad is still in power. we're starting to see the air strikes begin to diminish. we've always said from the beginning this is going to take some time. >> what is the state

department's estimate of inte e intentions in syria? >> we take at face value that they have supported the regime in syria. they report they're continuing to do that with additional assets. we believe they've indicated a willingness to counter violent extremism. there is a role but it can't continue by supporting the assad regime. you can go to unhcr.org, it's an organization i've involved with and obviously is trying to work with an unbelievable number of migrants and refugee, millions literally. later we'll bring you lest eer holt's emotional reporting from

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. up next, donald trump fills up the arena that's home to the dallas mavericks, while thousands of evangelicals came out to hear from bernie sanders. we'll play from you the highlights from their ad libes l

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up knoyou know, at the begi three, four months ago, he's just doing it for fund, he's doing this for his brand. i need this for my brand. one person, a real loser said, "he's a clown, he's a clown." now they're saying how do we stop this guy? i haven't heard the word clown in a while. they don't use that word anymore. >> if we stand together, if we do not allow them to divide us up by white and black and hispanic, by gay or straight, man or woman, whether we're born in this country or born somewhere else, if we stand

together, there is nothing, nothing, nothing we cannot accomplish. thank you all very much. >> the outsiders are killing it. >> the outsiders are killing it. and you can go back a really long time. i know last night we were all probably watching trump. i picked up the phone and called you and said are you watching? and you said yes. it looked like a convention in dallas. when they took shots, and it took a while for them to show the establishing shots of just how big this play was, from the ground in the back it looked like a convention that we'd see next year and here we are in september, trump with 18 tuesday to 20,000, bernie sanders i guess around 18,000. >> two separate rallies in the thousands. >> in 2015. >> one at liberty.

>> i haven't seen anything like that. >> our reporter, kelly o'donnell who was covering, she's been covering politics a long time she said this is not the kind of crowd we see at a preprimary -- this is a general election crowd. >> that is something you would see in ohio a week before an election. >> the saturday before election day. >> i remember one time in 2004 seeing john kerry pull a crowd like this outside in madison, wisconsin and i said uh-oh, bush is in trouble. it's september 2015. >> my guess is you'll have to go back to the spring of 1968 to see crowds gathered for gene mccarthy, robert kennedy, both coming from the outside against incumbents. the crowds are incredible, the messages are even more powerful

and more incredible. bernie sanders' speech was incredible. incredible. >> listen to what you say, mike. you talked about you'd have to go to the spring of '68. that was after the primaries were already going. that's when already was already engaged. six months before election. we are more than a year out. and let me just say for everybody who talks about how badly things are going in american politics today, gene robinson, look at bernie sanders' crowds, look at donald trump's crowds, let the elites sneer. i want that triple split again. let the elites sneer all they want to sneer, let them say that bernie sanders is a socialist who will bankrupt america and donald trump is a bigot, blah, blah, blah. up know what? look at those people involved in american politics. something is happening out there that hasn't happened in our

lifetime. >> well, show me the establishment candidate for either party who can draw those crowds, who can excite people that way and i don't see it. i thought bernie sanders was truly, as barnicle said, was amazing yesterday going to liberty college, into the belly of the beast and giving what i thought was a really powerful speech. he didn't convert a lot of people but he got a lot of respect for going there and doing that. and donald trump, you know, he looks and acts like a front-runner. i mean, not just the crowds but he's changed as a candidate, i think. he's gotten better at this. and so people want to dismiss this whole thing. i'm sorry, it's not dismissible. >> it can't be done. >> and mark halperin, salt lake city, you've been covering campaigns nonstop for about 20 years or so, we've never seen

anything like this. do you -- what do you hear out on the campaign trail? what's causing this? >> both those guys, as gene just suggested, have gotten better as candidates, whereas the people they're competing against largely haven't. so remarkable the bernie sanders event, a socialist from brooklyn and vermont is confident and is expressing his heart about his vision for america. donald trump, a balance mayor from queens, manhattan, goes to dallas, not on draws that big crowd but gives them a message that they want to hear with, as gene suggested, a lot of confidence. it's not just outsiders, it not just authenticity, it guys who know why they want to be president and are expressing it really clearly. >> the bernie sanders speech specifically, if you read that speech, he's talking to more than just -- obviously more than just the people at liberty

university. he's talking to a group of people in this country, millions in this country and i think this has gone unnoticed or unaddressed from people who feel unmoored from the foundation of the country in 2008 when the economy collapsed. they think no politician cares about them, they've lost jobs, lost hopes, lost hope, lost confidence in the country. that's what bernie sanders is speaking to and trump is speaking to that a little been. >> that's exactly what trump is speaking to and bernie sanders is speaking to. clowns in the national media for years have been trying to put evangelicals into a little box pip said it repeatedly m 1994 when i started hiring people from my office in washington, d.c., they came in if they were young, college students, they wanted to talk about abortion,

marriage,eth, et cetera, by the time i left in 2001, they were wearing birkenstocks, they p they wanted to talk about aids in africa, about feeding the hungry and helping the poor. today they're talking about the refugee crisis. when i went down to hurricane katrina, the federal government want there you know who was there? people from liberty college, christians, jus, people of faith. >> gene, you said you thought that the add of the american public might help hillary get through her crisis. these people don't have add. they're going to all these rallies and they're sticking it out, standing in lines. there's a new national sentiment out there, i'm afraid it might be the noisy majority. >> we'll see. >> let take a look, get through some of this stuff and i'll let you respond.

a new monmouth poll, donald trump has a firm lead of 11 parts over ben carson, who has more than tripled his support in the state since before the debate. senator ted cruz, carly fiorina also big gains. >> donald trump still in first. ben carson up 12 points, john kasich in third place. he's showing right now. that's a guy to look at moving forward and of course jeb bush minus five points. there's no way to put a good light on that right now. they've got to find their reason for running and that's their challenge over the last couple months. >> last night donald trump's biggest applause was a 50 second standing ovation from ending

illegal immigration. >> so the debate, ier th hear te coming after me. whatever. whatever. so the polls come out and we are killing it. we are killing it! so the polls come out and everybody's surging except trump. i went up to 40% in new hampshire. 40%! ben carson, good guy. i think he's 11 or 12. here's the headline. "carson surging." i said what about me? where's my name? i'm at 40! where's my name? it's unbelievable. do you know where my name is? they don't know where my name is either. by the way, can you see in the

back they have the best view, can you see it's really my hair? i'm self-fund being my campaign. i'm not taking all of this blood money. i'm not doing it. i'm not doing it. and i feel a little bit awkward and a little stupid. i have guys offering me millions and millions of dollars -- you know, when you're in number one place, then the blood suckers come out, the lobbyists, the special interests, the donors, "done, i love you," i turned down $5 million last week. it's sort of not natural for me to turn down money. but i turn it down. i know the game! once they give you, you sort of

owe them. what would president trump do? president trump? trump, trump, trump. what would president trump do? so i'd call the head of ford or whatever company but i'd call the head of ford. i'd say congratulations, i understand you're building a massive plant in mexico and you're taking a lot of jobs away from us in michigan and other places. i don't like that. i don't like it. i just don't like it. and he'll say, well, mr. presiden president, it's wonderful for the economy, great. it wonderful for whose economy? not our economy. what i'd say is i don't want you to do that. and if you do it, you're not going to have any cars coming across the border unless you pay a 35% tax. that's it. that's it. no, that's it. and they're going to say -- they're going to say to me, mr.

president, please, please, please, now i guarantee you. let's say i make this call at 9:00 in the morning. by 5:00 in the afternoon, i think the deal is done, they move back to the united states. >> the thing is he doesn't have to finish the sentence. everybody knows what the end of the sentence is. we're all sitting here mouths agape, leaning forward. you said all of your friends are skidding off the road. they're all going to trump or carson. >> all my friends who have not worked in politics, the real people that i know are calling me about two people, don trump and ben carson. they want to know more. i worked for jeb bush, they say what does jeb bush have to do? he has to win something, a story. there's a story about trump

emasculating jeb bush and you've seen it in that poll. >> nobody in the arena is -- they're there to see donald trump. there was no politics. >> who likes me, who doesn't like me. here's a loser. >> so we talked also about bernie sanders. this a remarkable day for bernie sanders. he has this any time, anyplace philosophy. he had a big rally in virginia and that speech at the university. let listen to it. >> four and a half months ago, some of the media was saying you have the senator from a small

state, he is a fringe candidate because nobody in america really thinks that the america people are prepared to take on the billionaire class. well, it turns out that in virginia, in the west coast, in the midwest, in new england, it turns out people are prepared to take on the billionaire class. now, in my view, and i can say this as somebody whose voice is hoarse because i have given dozens of speeches in the last few months, it is easy to go out and talk to people who agree with you. i was in greensboro, north carolina just last night. all right. we had 9,000 people out. mostly they agreed with me. tonight we're going to be in manassis and have thousands out and they agree with me. that's not hard to do but not

less important for us to try and communicate with those who do not agree with us on every issue. >> so, mark halperin, bernie sanders started off that speech and said there are things we disagree on, we're not going to solve that today, gay marriage, abortion, but we agree on issues of social justice, poverty, income inequality. he got big ovations when he talked about those things. >> one way people have been behind on bernie sanders, he's not a movement candidate trying to move with a niche electorate. he leaves in economic equality, the haves versus the have notes. as joe suggested, there are plenty in the evangelical community who in their own daily lives and view of social justice, that message will have deep resonance with them. yesterday was within of the most

important events bernie sanders has done, not just the symbolism of it but the message and execution and showing his heart. imagine if hillary clinton's staff prepared to her she go to liberty university and try to do an event like that. >> mark, off of what you just said, here's just one paragraph from bernie sanders' speech yesterday, to liberty university, a uniquely different crowd for any democrat to be appealing to. there is no justice and i want you to hear this clearly when the top 1/10 of 1% today in america owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90% and in your hearts you will have to determine the more raality of t and the justice of that. >> and the american people are responding to that message. i draw you to what donald trump said in the middle of that speech yesterday in dallas where trump said that the rich guys

were taking all the money. he said there are 200 guys in america who are doing great. and yet it the middle class, what was the word he said, the middle class is getting decimated. the people rose to their feet. the middle class are getting decimated. people stayed up on their feet. and, gene robinson, you can draw a straight line from what bernie sanders said in lynchburg virginia and manassis, virginia to what donald trump said in dallas, texas about the few, the rich, the super rich who are getting richer and richer by the second, literally by the second, while the middle class continues its spiral downward. >> this is a powerful message. there is a commonality in that message, it's speaking directly

to a beleaguered middle class. trump's word are different than sanders' word but they're kind of in the same language and with a directness that other candidates haven't found. they haven't found that voice and you see that connection being made. you can't win the presidency 14 months out from the election, but you can lose it 14 months before the election and, aably jeb bu -- arguably jeb bush is in the process of losing it, wreck perry already has, scott walker i would say is losing the election and i think the candidates in trouble are the candidates who don't understand the power of the election. >> still ahead, hundrgary seals off its border after passing

strict new laws. how the u.s. is doing its part. plus, donald trump has been hammering mitt romney for his failed run in 2012. >> why is he doing that? >> remember at the stadium, his staff could not fill. come on -- >> why are you picking on mitt? don't pick on mitt. >> coming up, we'll dig into hillary clinton's eroding support among women. but first, he's got a lot of heart. >> but he struggles just reading. here's bill karins with the forecast. >> and latest on the fires. >> these two disasters, we had one in utah and the other one from sunday, the valley fire in california. these pictures are incredible. this fire went from 500 acres to 50,000 acres in 24 hours. these firefighters were so up against this wall of 50-foot flames, the fire hydrants went

dry in the middle of fighting this fire. they rushed to the swimming pool at the high school, drained the water from there just to have any water to fight this blaze, 500 to almost 1,000 structures estimated destroyed. now let's talk about the disaster that happened last night in utah. small town of hilldale. about 3,000 people lived there. this is water canyon. a thunderstorm took the worst possible track across the region. here's the thunderstorm laid out yesterday afternoon, went right up to canyon, dumped a torrential rain and these are the pictures when you get a thunderstorm over mountainous areas and the water rushes into the canyons. unfortunately eight fatalities, women and children washed away in vehicles. we still have isolated wet weather to deal with.

the or is the east. we had a piece of fall. it's gone, temperatures in the 80s from from raleigh. it's just an extension of the summer.

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there is nothing, nothing we cannot accomplish. thank you all very much. >> i am not one of those who

ever thought this was going to be a straight shot. i've been in and around enough campaigns to know there's an ebb and flow, polls go up and down, people's attention and decision making changes over time. i feel very confident about where we are in the campaign and very committed to doing everything i can to make my case as effectively as possible to women and men and i think that will be successful. >> so while donald trump and bernie sanders are speaking off the cuff to thousands, hillary clinton sat down in a more controlled setting, taking on donald trump in an interview with mario lopez. >> well, i am watching this with some concern because i think a lot of what he has said has been really inflammatory and destructive. he has not put forth any real policies.

he's made a lot of claims and i think it may reflect on the republican side some of the, you know, pent-up frustration that they have. i'm going to let them deal with however they choose their nominee, but i am certainly, you know, looking forward if he were the nominee to debating him. >> meanwhile hillary clinton's e-mail saga continues. drip by drip, politico is reporting at least 45 messages now deemed to have included classified information passed by services on gmail and google servers. an unnamed state department official said, quote, the department is taking appropriate steps. >> no, they're not. this is the amazing thing, the state and now the justice department circling the wagons

for hillary in a way that when this sorry saga all comes to an end, people in the state department and the justice department are putting their reputations and their careers on the line because they are holding her to a much lower standard than they're holding anybody else to. you know, the revelations every day come out. there are new revelations every day and you have the same few people spinning. i understand obsequious people continue to be. i don't understand barack obama allowing his state department and allowing his justice department to not aggressively protect the rights of americans and the freedom of information act. they are not doing that. i know they want hillary to win so his legacy will not be undone

by a republican president, but they shouldn't undo their legacy in the process by turning a blind eye to all of this. and i'm afraid that's what the state department's doing and the justice department's doing. >> gene, a "washington post" abc news poll has hillary clinton down 20 points since july and it shows her biggest decline is among women. her support among female democratic voters was at 71% in mid july and is now at 42%. i wanted to follow up where i started at the beginning of the show. >> let's look at that number first. 71% in july support among female democratic voters. 42% today. those numbers are staggering. >> gene, how do people lose their attention for this?

do you really think that could happen? >> i think if you look at those numbers, you see a lot of her support seems to go to joe biden. some of it goes to bernie sanders and some of it goes to joe biden. now, if joe biden is in the race, that's a different picture. from what i hear from joe biden, he's not in the race. and i think it's less than even money that he does get into the race. if you look at the overall support number for hillary clinton, you know, 42% with biden in the race. without biden in the race, according to "the washington post" poll, it's 36% and bernie sanders is at 28%. that's still a strong lead. it's not prohibitive anymore but it's a strong lead. don't p so don't count her out. >> i'm not, i'm not. i don't know if the timing was there but these numbers came out and all of a sudden you saw

donald trump on -- hillary clinton on stage talking about donald trump and women. >> he occasionally throws some heat my way. he recently said i don't have a clue about women's health issues and he'd do a much better job for women than i would. and as i said, that's a general election debate i am really looking forward to. in fact, he says he cherishes women. that's nice but if it's all the same to you, i'd rather you stop cherishing us and respecting us as well. >> willie geist. >> it's a message she's used before. she could draw a big crowd if that was a smaller event.

it's just delivery -- >> why are we criticizing -- >> she's looking down and reading her notes. >> can we do what we do on this show and actually tell the truth? >> okay. >> can we actually tell the truth? that is a horrific part of your performance. >> if u don't have that part of your message yet, no wonder your numbers are down. >> and she's reading notes. let me finish. >> look, she is an accomplished, formidable condition who is ham strung by her own inability to handle her own self-inflicted e-mail wounds. the e-mail wounds perhaps lethal, have prevented her from getting a message out. she gave a terrific speech on

foreign policy. >> look at her. look at her. >> she is also clearly she should fire most of her staff. she is so overly stage managed that she sets up -- no, she sets up right there a curtain between her and any audience that she has, whether the audience is just watching her on tv or whether the audience is there in person. >> coming up on "morning joe," is fed really goipoised interes rates? of course it is because i invested $15 in the stock market. and coming up, stuart stevens has a lot to say. "morning joe" is back in a

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built for business. mitt romney let us down. he should have won that election. no different than a man that misses the putt on the 18th hole. something happened to him and that's not going to happen to me. >> wow. it's a common theme from donald

trump on the campaign trail that mitt romney blew it in 2012. joining us now, former chief, strategist -- >> chief strategist 2012, now contributor to the "the daily beast" and is out with his latest book, "the last season: the father, the son --" >> read the passage that made you cry. >> this is one of my favorite humans on the planet. >> there are some season, some good, some not so good with my father. one day i woke up at the age of 60 and realized what i wanted most in the world was one more season with my father, football and the ole miss rebels. we'll stop before i cry. >> so you were in the middle of

the campaign and it's a meat grinder. win, lose, draw. >> it's better to win. nicole always wins. better to win but you really sort of stopped and assessed your life. >> yeah. >> and you realized that one of the things that you needed to do was reconnect with your dad in a way that sons and fathers have been connecting for generations now. >> it was a great chance. when i was growing up in mississippi a lot of ways we connected was through college football, particularly ole miss and sob able to go back to that. so in the 2014 season after the romney campaign, my dad was turning 95 and we went to ole miss games. it was fabulous. >> talk about your book and what was the big idea that came out? >> it was just that we rush through life so much and i'm someone obsessed with politics and all these other crazy

endeavors, and the idea you can sort of step off and take this time is kind of magical. you realize things you want to do and if you don't do them, current do them but if you seize it, you can. it was a great experience. >> and for a lot of us who have had such a fast paced, hum ultous life, i looked back at 50 and saw so many people, i felt the urge to call. i realized so many people had passed away, a missed funeral in virginia, a missed funeral in texas, a missed funeral in california and i wake up and stop at 50. so much has blown by. >> as it goes by, you realize i should have clung to that one aspect of it more than i did. i never really knew my father,

he died when we were all pretty young. my wife always says you could have done so much more with your life but i couldn't have because i spent enormous amounts of time with my boys and i'm wondering what did your dad want your life to turn out to be when you were 18, 20, 22? >> you know, it's very interesting because he was a lawyer and my grandfather was a lawyer and come from these long line of lawyers and judges and he never put any pressure on me to do that at all. he was a classic dad. he wanted me to be happy. and a lot when i was growing up in mississippi there was a sense that you had to get out of mississippi. those were the days as you can appreciate where as it was said, you were behind the magnolia curtain. so i came to new york and i think i lived in new york for a decade before i knew anyone who

wasn't from mississippi. now it's less urgent o leave mississippi but you still see it. but i think that he always worried that i went through life too fast and didn't -- because he was part of that generation went through world war ii, which was a huge event in their lives and i think it changed their perspective on life. but he never prut aut any pressn me to do this or do that. >> he just wanted you to cling to those moments a little longer. and now you you are. >> he's always been very -- it was amazing. >> we have a picture of you and your dad at the stadium, full stadium, and we're seeing a lot of those pictures now and you

had a candidate who it was strong to fill a stadium. how important is it that bernie sanders and donald trump are getting all these people in all these places? >> i think the fact that we're talking about it shows that it's working. there's always a question every day in a campaign what do you do? when we did the bush campaign in 2000, his default was to go to a school because he would light up a kid and it made him come alive. trump feeds off these crowds. he's clearly a guy who is in this sort of alpha male role most -- the dirty little secret in politics is if you spend a lot of money, you can draw a crowd. i suspect trump is spending a lot of money and i don't think bernie sanders is.

the trump crowd, they're taking what they want to hear from it but they don't know a lot about donald trump, which he won the first one even though fox didn't believe it and everyone believed it, which they didn't until they saw the polls and the political environment, the national sentiment. doesn't it seem like whether one likes it or not that he's nailing every single one? >> i'm in the conventional wisdom, which means i'm probably wrong, that trump will fay, 8% of iowa caucus goers believed in evolution. i just don't think that crowd at the end of the day is going to be with donald trump.

>> hmm. >> stuart, it was great having you here. congratulations, the big is ". >> all right. still ahead, a look at what is going to be moving today's market. plus lester holtz is reporting from the front lines of the migrant crisis in europe. be right back. many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope... doesn't work on wrinkles. clinically proven neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair with the fastest retinol formula available, it works on fine lines and even deep wrinkles. you'll see younger looking skin in just one week. stop hoping for results, and start seeing them. rapid wrinkle repair...

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three more countries have followed germany's lead to, tend strict border control. lester holt reports from hungary. >> reporter: many were running to make sure they made it inside hungary before the doors shot, police and human forming a physical wall, shutting off the unofficial passage, through which we have entered thousands of re ji enter hungry unchecked. but no more. disappointment and confusion as refugees still on the serbian side were directed to walk to an official checkpoint where some were allowed in.

>> closing the refugee border is wrong and putting up a fence doesn't solve the problem. >> earlier they walked a hundred miles to catch the train in budapest. >> the day rashied arrived in hungary, 34 others died at sea. all of them in. >> you saw what picture? >>, i saw. we -- >> i feel as if he's my baby. >> so why did you make this journey? why did you come? >> we are escaping from this. when i see my kids, my family, i

am afraid. >> reporter: two rashied's family became sick on the journey, allowed to rest with their mother in this aid tent. >> i am a father. >> it's very difficult when you see your children suffer something like so. in front of your eyes. >> reporter: with a german aide volunteer, a makeshift. >> what do you want the people in europe to know about you and your family? -- i want them to know we are human beings. we lived in homes, we had homes somewhere, and that we came not -- we are not happy to be

refugees of war. we are obliged to be refugees of war. it's not a matter of choice. we didn't make this choice. >> you know, kier simmons had an amazing package yesterday, along with lester's. it's devastating what's happening there. you know, nicole, you were just talking about rwanda. everybody is still wringing their hands over letting rwanda happen. we have sam and -- we have to leave it there. we'll pick up coverage after a quick break. your link to what's next. when your windshield needs for these parents, driving. around was the only way... ...to get their baby to sleep. so when their windshield got cracked, we can't drive this car

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centurylink. your link to what's next. good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. developing this morning, take a look at this unbelievable video, a flash flood pounding the town of hillville, utah. at this hour there are eight reported deaths and five people still missing. ron is in los angeles with the very latest. ron? >> as you mentioned, the death toll is eight, five missing. there were three families, traveling in two weeks, 16 people in all when suddenly this