we have an obligation to do something about it. and they have an obligation to talk about it. >> we will find out if they do talk about it. gaven newsome, thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks for joining us. "msnbc live" continues next. right now on msnbc 11 republican presidential candidates are gathering at the ronald reagan presidential library getting ready to square off in the second major gop primary debate. we are now just hours away from one of the biggest moments so far in the 2016 race. all eyes, of course, are on donald trump. the republican front runner giving a hint today that he is interested in using tonight's debate to show a different side of himself. >> i think i can tone it down a

little bit when pressed. i think i have a great temperment. you couldn't build a great business like i built if you didn't have great temperment. i think sometimes i can tone it down and hit a little less hard. >> but others sound like they plan to hit plenty hard. scott walker's campaign telling nbc if he gets the chance to mix it up he's going to. since the last debate walker has fallen from being one of the top contenders to the bottom of the polls. all 11 candidates on that stage tonight have a whole lot at stake. here is what they say they're planning. >> i don't think my strategy is going to change at all. it is going to be to tell the truth and to talk about my vision for america. >> i think mr. trump is going to be hearing quite a lot from me. >> i am going to mix it up because i like to rumble and make sure people know the differences between the candidates. >> someone comes at me i will come back at them.

don't worry about that. i will campaign hard. >> hours before he takes the stage tonight jeb bush went on an early morning hike today with his son. rand paul tried to pump himself up in a different way shooting at a copy of the tax code. >> it's better than sitting around all day and thinking what crazy questions i'm going to be asked. >> moments ago ben carson prepped for the debate by talking to reporters. >> when it comes to the attacks that trump could deliver tonight, are you planning to attack back or ignore? >> i will probably handle that like i always handle attacks and that is to say let's move on to something important. >> now, the latest poll to come out ahead of this debate looks at the field in the critical state of new hampshire and has donald trump still leading but shows big surges from ben carson

and carly fiorina. all of the other candidates on stage are down to single digits in new hampshire. chris matthews is there for the debate tonight. thank you both for being here. chris matthews let me ask you to set the scene for tonight. the audio suggests reversal of roles. you have donald trump talking about maybe trying to tone it down a little bit and jeb bush talking about mixing it up. >> his opponents aren't that bright. i think trump will do what he did. in the first debate i predicted a battle between him and megyn kelly because they both have the same approach to a debate. this time around i think trump is going to be smart and grab ahold of jake tapper's comments. tapper says he wants to get the politicians into a fight with each other.

he is going to say what is the moderator's job to separate us and not to get us to fight each other. we have a moderator trying to get us into a stupid side fight. i would say the big news will be fight with tapper. then you see a fight with fiorina to get her in the head lines. these guys don't understand. jimmy carter tried to attack reagan. you don't attack the other guy. you wait for him to tag you and then in your counter attack your spontaneous reaction in the heavyweight division or not. these guys can't go in with big tanks rolling into the room with them. trump will make a fool of them if they try to do that. they will see it and he will be laughable. this idea they are going to take him on is such a joke. it's not how you win a debate.

you win a debate by being quick on your feet. they have to explain that ability, not the ability to read a script. >> it's interesting. i think donald trump in a way may have set a trap here tonight for jeb bush because he spent the last month running around telling anybody who will listen that jeb bush is mr. low energy. now he sort of set this up where jeb bush has to find a wie to be different to show life tonight. that's a dangerous place to be. >> i think god set that one up a long time ago. this is logic. this is logic. trump is out thinking because he is thinking. they are not thinking. they are going back to the same advisers listening to the same advice. they are always caught short. they are never ready. they are never ready because they are fighting his game. fiorina will do what she has to do tonight. she will be okay. there will be a headline coming

out. the idea that tapper will set up an individual enterprise here is absurd. i think you are dead right in your main thought. he will play it passively in the way he presents himself. they will take their shots. that's when they take their heads off. >> so speaking of advisers here. let's say you are back stage with candidates, the big non-trump candidates up there tonight. what is your advice to them in approaching donald trump tonight? >> donald trump has been a complete total absolutely control in the political battle space of this campaign. he has kept all of his opponents off balance. you look at his comments tonight he is trying to keep them off balance. chris is right. all of these candidates who are preparing for this debate is a talking exercise. they have a script. they are going to attack. every big moment you can think of happening in a debate always

comes on the counter punch. it's candidates quick on their feet, being reactive and through this process that we see the aspects of their character, their temperment. >> who is quick on their feet? >> chris christie is quick on his feet. carly fiorina is quick on her feet. scott walker has plummeted. he is gasping for air. he best have a good night. you can get a second look at a presidential campaign but you are not going to get a third look. >> i want to put this up. this is the last debate august 6. the first debate was august 6. this is since the first republican debate. all the people watched it. how did the candidates do since that debate. since that debate ben carson is up 17 points. carly fiorina is up four. trump is up three. look at the other end of that.

scott walker is down eight points. that first debate was a disaster for him. jeb bush down seven points from that first debate. chris matthews, when you see these numbers, the outsiders who surged so much bush, walker and rubeio not getting traction. what do you make of that? >> i think what we think of as the republican party is maybe out of date and maybe finished. the establishment party, the party of the east coast, the northeast, the suburbs, the moderate party. i think that party is finished for a while, maybe not a long time but right now it is finished. the people making noise in the republican party are against the whole establishment mentality. and the dr. carson thing is interesting to me. he could be a direction they want to go in but i think he more likely is a parking space. i think they say carson because he is a good guy so they feel good about saying yes to carson. without any kind of real

commitment to the idea of a carson presidency. to some extent that is true of trump but trump has balls. he comes across as mr. cahoney here. i think trump is a candidate. i think carson will be a parking place and i think both of them are total rejections of the republican establishment. i don't see how jeb bush comes back. i don't see it. it is all possible but they don't seem to want to have anything to do with what they had before. every time they stand for something in congress nothing gets done their way. the government moves on. the dogs keep barking. they get the deal with iran through. health care is through. everything goes through and the republicans seem to be along the side of the road watching it. i think that is what really hit the republican right wing. they don't like nothing. >> let me pick up on that point about ben carson. chris matthews saying a parking

space and reminds me four years ago that was a story on the republican side. michele bachmann. the minute they got the scrutiny of a presidential debate they fell apart. we said a few months ago that will be donald trump. he will disappear. obviously not happened with trump. when you look at ben carson do you see somebody you think has the staying power that trump has or looking back to the herman cain model. >> he is not herman cain or michele bachmann. he is a good man with a remarkable life story. he is more likely than not a parking place for republican voters right now. we will see how he performs tonight with the spot light on him. i think one other thing we are going to see playing out tonight is the moment of time, what is american conservatism? you will see candidates attack

donald trump on issues as the proof point that he is not a conservative. conservatism is increasingly severed from issues. it's an emotional sentiment. the person with the hottest rhetoric, that's the person who is viewed by republican voters as the most conservative candidate. and the proof point of who is a rhino and a real conservative is who has fidelity to the person with the hottest rhetoric. to chris's point by the time you get to your 50 or 60th vote to repeal obamacare and republican voters see it they know it is play fighting, they know it is theater and they are sick of it and don't think the policy positions are worth the paper they are printed on. >> we have this situation when you start adding up donald trump plus ben carson and carly fiorina you are well over 50% right now. if ben carson were to fade is it likely those voters are going to go to fiorina or trump?

>> there is clearly two brackets in the field, the outsiders, the establishment candidates. you have to put ted cruz into the outsider candidates. >> that gets into 60%. >> i think the vote shares will trade up and down within the brackets. maybe and carly fiorina is different than ben carson and donald trump in this regard. she is absolutely fluent on matters of public policy. she talked fluently on national security issues and on domestic policy issues. that may be appealing to both sides of the party on that 60/40 split between the two brackets. >> chris matthews, we are a couple hours away from the start of the debate, who do you think has the best opportunity on the stage to have a breakout moment? >> fiorina because she has been challenged by trump. he has given her the opening.

everything is about her because all she has to do is walk out and do what she has to do to defend herself, make her point, show her stuff. that's a great opportunity for her. i don't see anybody else having anything like the spot light that she is going to get tonight. i predict the headlines tomorrow have her name in them. >> thank you both for joining us. be sure to watch chris on "hardball" at 7:00 p.m. eastern and then a post debate. still ahead, how is tonight's debate in california different than the first one in cleveland? from the size of the audience to the amount of space between the podiums. plus carly fiorina makes her primetime debate debut. find out what she plans to do to make her mark among the other candidates. later the trump transformation. the "new york times" says donald trump is starting to show more

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the first debate. tonight they are half that distance, just 20 inches apart. and there is the timing. the first debate ran a little under two hours total but tonight it is expected to go two hours and 40 minutes. asking for clarification on when candidates can use restroom during third commercial break. questions about the audience. roughly 4,500 people were in that cleveland arena last month for the first gop debate. tonight only 400 invited guests will be in attendance. the reagan library is a much smaller venue as you can see from the 2008 primary debate. want to bring in our political panel now. thank you all for being here. let me start with you. thinking about the issue of the arena last month. it was almost like a rock

concert and you heard loud reactions. donald trump got his joke off about rosy o'donnell and fed off that and it also contributed to how the audience interpreted what was happening. now you are in the much more subdued setting at a library and will probably feel like a library. how will that effect how the candidates behave? >> in the first debate there were a lot of boos when donald trump rose his hand that he wasn't going to pledge to run as an independent. i think what is going to be interesting is that it is an intimate setting and the opportunity of more engagement detween the candidates which lacked in the first debate. you will be able to see how the candidates handle each other and be able to respond to each other and whether attacks come up or don't come up. i always feel like it is a dance athon to see who will be the last to drop because that is a

long time and it's going to be interesting to see if mentally they can stay strong. >> i think you have to go back to lincoln douglas in the 19th century to find a debate this long. let me put this on the screen. when you put back to the first debate a month ago if you broke down the actual amount of time each candidate got you can see donald trump it was only 11 minutes. he talked for longer than anybody else. you go down to rand paul who had 5 1/2 minutes. we are adding an 11th candidate. you are talking about six, seven minutes. that's all the time they are going to get. that is a tremendous challenge for the campaigns to try to say something meaningful in such a small amount of time. >> absolutely. and the stakes are very, very high tonight. as we saw in 2012 debates can make or break a campaign. we saw that with governor perry. he never really came back from

that. it is a very short window of opportunity. 2 1/2 hours is a long time for these candidates to have to stand on a stage and not really say anything. they only get five to ten minutes to actually speak. i think the size of this venue also i do think sort of puts trump at a bit of a disadvantage. it's not the kind of venue he is used to. i'm not sure this is going to be his audience. it is going to be a very different flavor tonight. >> i guess the other issue is the moderators. we saw in the first debate after the debate was over donald trump versus megyn kelly became the story. now donald trump versus hewitt who will be on the cnn panel tonight one of the guys questioning the candidates. donald trump mixed it up with hugh hewitt and called him a third-rate host. what do you expect tonight between donald trump and hewitt and the panel?

>> i suspect donald trump will get even more speaking time tonight even though there is more candidates because a couple of candidates will go after donald trump and try to mix it up with him. the way they are setting it up apparently they want people to have a back and forth. donald trump will have a lot of time talking because a lot of the candidates are going to be going after him. i think carly will be the first one to open up and really go after him. she is probably the only one who can go after him and not be damaged in a way you saw rick perry and jindal damage there. this is the donald trump show. everyone is turning in. people are talking about it and turning in to watch this show. i think cnn wants this to be about specific policies. people are turning in not to see specifically policy but to see what kind of show and performance donald trump puts on. >> and the guy at the beginning of the race we said was the overwhelming front runner jeb

bush. jeb bush's poll numbers had fallen to levels nobody thought they would fall to. this is a critical night for him. what is success tonight for jeb bush? he lost eight points after the last debate. what does he have to do to have a good night tonight? >> he has to show the emotional side of jeb . he really has to connect and talk about these stories of individuals he is meeting across the country and really make it more about an empathetic pitch as opposed to numbers, statistics, facts, the policies. this is about style over substance to a certain extent and how well you can perform is going to be determined by the fact that for jeb he really has to make that emotional connection. because a policy numbers won't work. >> that whole charge that donald trump has been making, he has been ridiculing jeb bush for the last month calling him mr. low energy. i have talked to a few people who have said when they hear trump say that and they start

watching him in action they say there is something to that. this guy seems a little awkward and a little low energy. he doesn't have the pep that his brother that george w. had. is jeb bush capable -- i think it is a devastating label. is he capable of overcoming that and reversing that? >> well, it's very, very hard to shake. donald trump has made it clear it's not just about winning for him. he wants to take out jeb bush. i do think that that charge has left a mark. jeb bush has to find his footing and find the kind of candidate he was when he ran for governor of florida which i think was a different kind of campaign than he has been running of late and really show heart and not just by the wook candidate talking about his experience. >> we have to talk about the guy who has been surging along with donald trump and that is ben carson. we sort of saw it was his closing statement in that first debate he was pretty quiet until the very end, that closing statement really seemed to

connect with the audience. he surged in the polls since then. he showed he has one good pitch. do you think he has another pitch in him tonight? >> i think he does. he is going to go right for the evangelicals. those are the folks holding him up and the folks that when you look at the outsider if he can be the outsider who has the christian base of the republican party i think he has staying power. we will see that. if not -- it's about staying power in building organization and running a professional campaign. i know jeb bush can do it. i know other candidates can do it. with all due respect to dr. carson, can he put together an organization for caucus night? can he put together an organization that turns out voters and primaries. it is a different political thing. one other point i want to jump in real quick with mercedes, this is where his brother is

falling far behind george bush. george bush was likable. jeb bush is so not his brother. jeb bush has to find that. >> i have been saying that for months now. i completely agree. watching jeb bush and i don't mean to diss him too much but has given me a new appreciation for the speaking skills of george w. bush. mercedes, katie, cornell, thanks. we will see you again in a few minutes. ahead carly fiorina wasn't on the main stage last time around but is going to be tonight. we will talk with john harwood. he asked fiorina about her fights can donald trump. is trump becoming a more traditional politician? what would that mean for the debate? why do so many people choose aleve?

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the folking tonight will be on the only woman in the gop field, carly fiorina. this will be her debut on the big stage. donald trump and ben carson fiorina can claim outsider status as someone who never held public office before and isn't backing down from trump and has been taking him on head on. in an interview fiorina hinted she will continue to do that tonight. >> are you looking forward to given donald trump a massive headache from hearing your voice? >> i think mr. trump is going to be hearing quite a lot from me. >> you said i will stack up my business career against his any day of the week. stack it up. >> donald trump and i are in totally different businesses. he is in the entertainment business. we had to report our results publically and if i misrepresented i could be held criminally liable. >> he said everybody does it in

terms of inflating the value. >> if i had done it i could have gone to jail. those are his standards. i think my standards are what the american people would appreciate. >> and joining me now from simi valley is john harwood. the bottom line we have been talking about this. carly fiorina seems to be looking for a fight with donald trump tonight. does donald trump have to be a little nervous about that? >> i think so because carly fiorina has a unique ability to go after him. first of all, she is a woman. second of all, she is a business executive like he is. that gives some credibility. he has been going after her really hard and talked about her vicious firing and mocked her appearance. as i indicated in that piece he said her voice gives him a massive headache. >> you also asked her about her lack of experience. ran for the senate in 2010 in california and lost by ten

points. this is that exchange. >> why should republicans and then the country turn to someone who has not been elected to anything and not served in government? >> i'm not quite sure when as a nation we got used to the idea that only professional politicians can run for office. >> it is interesting i'm trying to think of past examples of somebody who went from running for the senate and losing and then try to run for president right after that. when you look at her business past there is a lot of controversy about the circumstances back at hewlett-packard, one of the reasons i think until now there has been reluctance to take her candidacy seriously. >> rick santorum tried it after losing in pennsylvania. he had been in elected office for a long while. the interesting context for that exchange with carly fiorina was in 2008 when she began stepping on before the senate race she

was campaigning for john mccain and got asked a question about sarah palin and said sarah palin would not be qualified to run a company but neither would barack obama or john mccain but said it is a fallacy to think running a company is the same as running a country. i asked her why they should turn to you. she said orderinary politicians have been messing things up. this is a country that ought to have citizen politicians. >> we will see if she does give donald trump that headache tonight. thank you for that. >> thank you. and supporters say they like donald trump because he is not your typical candidate. is he slowly starting to turn into a politician? also ahead democrats targeting trump and it seems to be everyone. those running for president, those who may be running for president and even the president himself. >> i am here to say that there

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is donald trump evolving into a new kind of candidate? according to the "new york times" he is. the times reports trump is becoming more disciplined and embracing the rituals and expectations of a role of a presidential candidate. he now lingers and works the rope line and sometimes is relying on prepared notes. how deep does that change run? just yesterday trump sounded a lot like trump. >> i have the smartest people in this country lined up. they make good deals like me. i make good deals. it's a talent. it's a talent. hillary clinton is the worst secretary of state in the history of this country. we are going to build the wall and mexico is going to pay for the wall. >> the other question if trump

does change his style will that alien ate the very voters who have responded to him in the first place? joining me again mercedes and katie gauge and cornell belter. the question that i have here is clearly trump has demonstrated a degree of staying power outside of the republican establishment that nobody thought was there. if he is going to take the next step he has to add in swal support from republican elected officials from the establishment. i'm wondering this evolution of trump the times is describing can you see it happening? can you see a moment coming a month from now right before new hampshire where real republican senators come out and say this is my guy? >> well, i don't know that that is necessary. i think the people are saying that is not what we are interested in.

i think what trump needs to articulate actual positions backed up by real legitimate public policy proposals. he talks about building a wall between us and mexico and that mexico is going to pay for it. he has yet to articulate how he is going to do that. he has yet to articulate how he will deport 11 million people. i think to get to the next level that is what people are looking to hear. he is going to keep holding here at the 20% to 25% as he has been for several weeks now until he actually starts to put together legitimate policy proposals. >> can that happen? we were taught by all these past elections and political science that you have to ultimately have endorsements to win the nomination. is it possible that those rules can be blown up here and trump can by pass that completely? >> it could be and that is a fascinating question, steve. the endorsements normally are just traditional part of campaigns.

and we know governor jeb bush got the endorsement of eric cantorhere in virginia. that was not a smart move because eric cantor represents the establishment. what is this election about for the gop primary voters? it is about antiwashington, antiestablishment. so the mere fact that he is basically trump is dismantling the formula of having to get endorsements is something that could work but to katie's point you only can get so far if you don't have local leaders and some of the politicians really standing behind you. >> that story is so fascinating because canter had shocking upset loss to david brat. david brat has been hinting he might endorse trump and starting to think about where the mood of the party is. let me ask you about this. the other thing is donald trump is a showman.

it has worked really well for him. he has been able to surprise people. he is doing and saying something new and kept the story fresh and kept himself in the headlines. he has done it for three months. we are five months from the first primary. is it possible for this guy to keep coming up with new surprises and new antics and not get stale? >> yes. every day we are all sitting around waiting to see what trump says. i have to agree with my two friends here that a bunch of old senators standing up saying i support trump will be the kiss of death. he is running against that. and he is doing a marvelous job of it. he is putting on a show and people want to see that show. the question is for me really is can he build excitement and expand the republican party? i hear a lot of people talking about him and people who don't like him, they want to see the

show. he is certainly bringing new energy to the process. the question is and i work for a guy who brought new energy to the process. we converted that energy into voters and participants. the question is, can he convert energy that he is bringing to this process over to organization and votes. that for me is the big question. i don't know if he can. >> here is what i think is a real warning sign to the republican establishment. this is a new poll. they asked republican voters who do you think has the best chance of winning the whole thing, winning the presidency? trump is the first choice. 39% say of all 16 republicans out there he has the best chance of winning. 26% just a month ago are saying that. that number jumped 50% in just a last month. that seems to be when you look at the past primaries when the establishment wins what the establishment seems to fall back

on is the electability argument. you have to go to mccain in '08. if you are looking at this right now in republican voters saying donald trump is the most electable that is a tough argument for jeb bush or rubio or others to step in. >> he is not the most electable. he has alienated women and hispanic voters. i will stand by my comment on the last debate day i was on with you. this guy is not going to be the republican nominee and certainly not the next president. i think we have work to do to make sure that doesn't happen. donald trump is not going to be the guy. >> clearly not part of the 39%. appreciate you all joining us. thank you. up next we turn to the democrats, those running for president and the ones thinking about it. they appear to be on the attack and targeting republicans.

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trump's vow to make america great again. >> in the echo chamber that is presidential politics everything is dark and everything is terrible. they don't seem to offer many solutions for the disasters that they perceive. i am here to say there is nothing particularly patriotic or american as talking down to america. america is great right now. >> democrats running for the white house were far less veiled with their attacks on trump this week. >> i have really very strong concerns with trump and other republican candidates appealing to really some bad instincts in the american people. you do not call people from other countries, in this case mexicans rapists or criminals.

you don't categorize people like that. that is racism. that should not be taking place in the year 2015. >> you heard mr. trump insult and demean won. he says he cherishes women. well, that's nice. but if it is all the same to you, i would rather you stop cherishing us and respecting us instead. >> even vice president joe biden yet to declare whether he will run in 2016 got in on the trump smack down. >> i don't want anybody to be down right now about what is going on in the republican party. there is one guy absolutely denigrating an entire group of people appealing to the baser side of human nature, working on this notion that hasn't occurred in a long time. >> it is the democrats mission to take down trump and republicans in tonight's debate

are likely to follow suit. i don't know that the democrats are trying to take down trump. i think there might be more of a cynical thing going on where they talk him down and know the republican voters will hear that and say hillary doesn't like him. barack obama doesn't like him. maybe we should nominate him. >> i think that is absolutely right. i think within the latino community a lot of folks for a long time have been waiting for the democrats to start taking the republicans to task for what is clearly zin phobia. i have seen the trajectory of the vice president evolve and connect with the latino community. even the way he was able to connect with activists that are heads of organizations speaks to what his strategy is if he were to run. i think he is waiting in the

wings. >> let's play a little more of joe biden. this was joe biden last night talking about donald trump. >> this will pass. the trump and that stuff you are hearing on the other team and not just about democrat and republican it is about a sick message. this message has been tried on america many times before. we always, always, always, always overcome it. >> it's interesting you say he is connecting with latino voters thrks vice president and has a big decision to make. we see hillary clinton's poll numbers are lower than anybody thought they would be at this point. joe biden's numbers hovering in low 20s. do you see realistically a path that exists for joe biden if he gets in this race to defeat hillary clinton and win the democratic nomination? >> my perception is what biden is doing is basically wait and see. he is talking on the clinton

side. he recognizes there is a lot of morale down even among popular women voters. so i think he is basically saying is there another shoe to drop. if it does drop he has an opportunity to come in. he has an incredible fundraising mechanism behind him. he doesn't have on the ground operations. if he gets the right people he has a path. i wouldn't say he would jump in unless hillary makes a mistake. >> you say numbers are down particularly among women. what do you think that is about? is it the e-mail scandal or something more fundamental? >> i think the e-mail scandal is actually an epitome of what is wrong with not just hillary but the clinton camp but that it takes too long and everything is poll tested with an idea of how to respond. had she been forthcoming with

the e-mail scandal in july this would have been past her. everybody is holding tight and trying to see how she is going to do when it comes time for the benghazi hearings come mid october. >> a couple of big tests coming up for hillary clinton and joe biden to see if the race does take shape. thanks for being with us. appreciate it. >> thanks, steve. check out this picture. this is donald trump and president ronald reagan shaking hands back at a 1987 white house reception. how well did trump really know the conservative icon? stick with us. our coverage of tonight's republican debate continues after this. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping.

tonight's republican debate donald trump is getting headlines thanks to a new supporter, tom brady was asked today about his friendship with trump. >> he is a guy who likes winning like you. you think he has what it takes? >> i hope so. that would be great. putting green on the white house lawn i'm sure of that. >> after hearing that news trump tweeted a great honor from somebody that knows how to win. can't help but wonder whether the support will inflate or deflate chances. sorry about that. stay with us. ing plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers.

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tonight. will there actually be a 12th? the legacy of ronald reagan casts a shadow over today's republican party. almost every candidate made a point of aligning themselves. john kasich is out with this new ad. >> i was very young and lightning struck and i found myself in the command center for ronald reagan. >> and ted cruz campaign released an ad today that they say mimices one of reagan's ads from 1984. we will show you some of each. >> there is a bear in the woods. for some people the bear is easy to see. others don't see it at all. >> there is a scorpion in the desert. for most of us its venom is a clear and deadly threat but others refuse to even speak its name. >> and donald trump has also been touting his ties to the

40th president. >> ronald reagan became not only a republican but a pretty conservative republican and he is somebody that i actually knew and liked and he liked me. >> but today the wall street journal saying records show they were scant. >> i believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and have lived here even though sometime back they may have entered illegally. >> today ronald reagan's son talked to andrea mitchell and said republican candidates should stay away from claiming his father's legacy. >> i think all of them make a mistake by invoking ronald reagan. i think everybody makes a mistake by putting ronald reagan's hat on. they need to let us know who they are so they can go forward

and win. >> republican candidates for president will take the stage a short time from now. we will be watching. thanks for watching this hour. harl ball starts now and you can catch a special post debate two hour edition here on msnbc. round two. let's play "hardball"." good evening. out at the reagan presidential library in simi valley, california. the first republican presidential debate was i think trump versus kelly as in megyn kelly with the front runner