>> arthur brooks, thank you very much. president of the american enterprise institute. thank you to the 5:00 crew and thank you for joining us. msnbc live continues next. right now donald trump cancels his appearance at a presidential forum after a supporter revives the birther issue. reaction coming in fast and furious. big news from the clerk jailed for refusing to obey the law. and the army general who investigated sergeant bowe bergdahl's alleged desertion testified. massive fallout over this exchange at donald trump's new hampshire town hall. >> i like this guy. >> we have a problem in this

country called muslims. we know our current president is one. you know he is not even an american. >> where is the question? >> we have training camps where they want to kill us. that is my question. >> we are going to be looking at a lot of different things. a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. we will be looking at that and plenty other things. >> today the back lash was intense. here is some of trump's republican rivals. >> if somebody at one of my town hall meetings said something like that i would correct him and say the president is a christian and was born in this country. >> you had a chance to show who you were. it happened to john mccain. yo ahave to push back. come on television and say i made a mistake. >> we did not hear from trump himself today. his campaign put out a statement saying trump meant christians

need support in this country. their religious liberty is at stake. he cancelled an appearance where other candidates spoke. his campaign saying trump had a business transaction to attend to. hillary clinton suggested he was in a time-out. >> i think that his taking a time-out to think hard about what happened last night, what he did not call out or repudiate at the time gives him the chance to express his regret. >> in greenville, south carolina covering the event that trump skipped. what is the word on the ground and reaction to him canceling his speech? >> reporter: he announces shortly before the event began. some i spoke to travelled long distances were disappointed they didn't get a chance to see

trump. he is entertaining and they wanted to know more about him. trump's presence does loom heavily over the event in that because of the comments a lot of other candidates are getting asked about it. some republican candidates were criticizing him. other ones for example senator ted cruz took a different approach. let's see what he had to say. >> what y'all love to do in the press -- i understand the press wants to get republicans throwing rocks at each other. how about we talk about the challenges facing this country? >> is obama a muslim? >> you know, president obama's faith is between him and god. >> reporter: so as you can see senator ted cruz declining to weigh in either on obama's faith or trump's comments. this is pretty much par for the course for cruz.

it seems important he is in lock step with trump in the eyes of trump supporters presumably in case trump drops out he maybe has a better chance of getting voters. >> part of the discussion and the critics of trump is saying he is not giving out enough content. his campaign released a position paper on the second amendment. do they want to change the subject here and move it past what has happened today? >> reporter: this is the second policy paper that trump has released. the first one was immigration which was a lot more explosive than this one. but i don't know if trump is doing this as part of a deliberate strategy or not but his style means there is always a lot of shiny objects to chase. it is not unheard of him to move away from one controversy by throwing something else out there. you remember when he said comments about john mccain in iowa a couple of months ago in which he said he was not a war

hero because he was captured during the vietnam war. later he gave out lindsey graham's phone number and then we were talking about that. last month he got into a feud on fox news with megyn kelly in the morning and suddenly that was the discussion. it can be hard to keep track of what is going on with trump in a given day. >> thank you so much for that report. i am going to bring in e.j. deion of "washington post." trump has not apologized for this. he may not based on his track record to date. he cancelled the appearance. what do you make of the explanation and business transaction that he is saying he has to attend to? >> i would be curious if it is a real business transaction i would love to know what it was. it is not at all surprising that trump did this in new hampshire

last night. if you think about the basis for affection on the right end of the republican party for trump it began when trump was a vehement birther even when the president put out the long form birth certificate trump said he wasn't sure. a significant chunk of constituency are people who agree with the man who asked the question. it doesn't surprise me that trump chose not to disagree with him, just kind of rolled over it and said we are going to be looking at a lot of things. it surprised me that ted cruz said what he did because his whole strategy is based on trying to unite evangelicals and hoping that trump weakens and to pick up his supporters. what is significant is there are a lot of mainstream republicans who as far as i can tell haven't disowned trump yet. you have shown chris christie

and lindsey graham. i'm curious where the other guys are. >> your thought? >> obviously all the other republican candidates with the exception of senator cruz are going to disown the comments. you will see them quickly and forcefully. i disagree. i think donald trump made a mistake and i think he knows he made a mistake. the birther movement three or four years ago when he was involved i don't know if he was contemplating running for president. this cancellation in south carolina is not coincidental. he hasn't missed any other rally that i know of. i think in this regard it has been a mistake. i think he knows it. he will never admit it because donald trump is incapable of admitting mistakes. collectively i think this helps republicans because increasingly and i say in the last debate when republicans took him on forcefully i think the activists in our party, people who are quite committed to having a

republican elected in 2016 will now be in a position to demonstrate that the credible candidates are candidates such as governor bush or senator rubio or governor christie. i think the comments are going to continue to waynwane. this type of comment will be a line crossed and he crossed it yesterday. >> don't you want more? you work for john mccain. a lot of people are comparing this incident to that one that we are all three very familiar with at a mccain town hall back to 2008 where at that time your candidate john mccain said this. we'll listen to this. >> i can't trust obama. i have read about him and he's an arab. >> no ma'am. no, ma'am. he's a decent, family man

citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. and that's what this campaign is all about. he's not. thank you. >> so many applauded john mccain for standing up at that moment. why did not donald trump do the very same when he had the opportunity? i want to go through the actual words said. >> he's not john mccain. >> certainly. we have a problem in this country. this is what that questioner said. we have a problem in this country. it's called muslims. that is already one very inflammatory statement. we know our current president is one. that's number two. you know he's not even an american. that is number three. but anyway we have training camps number four growing where they want to kill us. it goes on. there were all sorts of opportunities for donald trump to say hang on a second. there are all kinds of wrong in that statement, let's correct them. i will get to you first. >> i think this is the

distinction between senator mccain who did not flinch and the comments the lady made six years ago are paled by comparison. this demonstrates something about donald trump. he is a divider. i think he is a racist. not only this but on immigration and other issues. he's not a republican and i think increasingly a large number of americans be they independent or republicans will come to that conclusion. therein is the difference between a statesman, serious candidate, someone to bring the country together and someone taking this as an opportunity to build his business and whatever agenda he has that is not the republican party agenda or the agenda for this country. >> all kinds of wrong in that statement. the worry for republicans is there could be leakage where this is the perception of all gop candidates over time if they don't stand up.

>> john mccain has enormous integrity and showed it that day. donald trump is no john mccain. if you go back to the birther stuff when this all started and when trump was doing it there were an awful lot of leaders of the republican party who would not denounce it and say this is wrong, who would say what ted cruz said that his religion is between hiand god or i don't have a position on the birth certificate so that the party played with fire back in the tea party days and now the mainstream threatens to get burned. i am sure he believes this is horrible. i know there are a lot of republicans who believe this is horrible. trump is riding a wave that started building a long time ago. they are his core constituency which is why it would certainly be a mistake for a normal candidate to not advance the way trump did. in trump's case given who is forhim i don't think the path is

so clear which is one reason why he might be disappearing for a few hours. >> i want to get to this before we finish the segment. trump saying he would spend up to $100 million to win the nomination and planned to spend $15 million on commercials this summer alone but didn't because he was getting so much publicity on cable news as it was. he has said he would spend up to is a billion dollars. how long will he stay in? is that $100 million probable? >> it is interesting. it's hard to figure out. trump is worth an enormous amount of money. it is hard to figure out how much of it is liquid. i think now that he has become a normal candidate he is a politician now he may get less interesting. he may finally have to do what every other candidate does which is to buy some advertising although i still think he is probably going to still get a lot of free media because for

better or worse he is interesting and he seems to raise ratings. >> on that note 15 seconds more of that and then we have to go. >> i completely agree. i think he will milk the free media. i don't think he has the wealth he claims he has. steve forbes spent $150 million, a very wealthy man. i don't think donald trump will spend a billion dollars and would be hard for him to raise a billion dollars to do so. this is more of the trump exaggerations. >> thank you. have a great weekend. >> good to be with you. thanks. >> you bet. we have seen historic changes to u.s. policy towards cuba this year. moments ago the white house releasing this photo showing president obama on the phone with cuban president raul castro discussing more policy changes. the obama administration is lifting restrictions on business and travel to that country. the changes go into effect on monday and during pope francis's

visit to the island. >> chris jansing has more on this for us. good afternoon to you. how significant are the changes you have been reporting and the phone call today between president obama and president castro? >> reporter: i think there is no doubt about it that since the president said he was going to move towards normalizing relations back in december these are significant moves we have seen certainly some of the most significant in the 53 years since the u.s. put that embargo on cuba. what exactly will it mean? there is a lot of lawyers working that out who are going over these new details very carefully. broad picture i think there are two areas getting a lot of attention. one is travel. it means more people can go. there was already classes of people there including people involving charitable work, journalists. now those who are close

relatives of those folks can also go. it also means that businesses can establish actual physical presence in cuba and potentially hire cuban nationals to work for them. what does that mean? let's tie the two together. tourism and businesses. many airlines would like to be able to establish ticket offices, for example, in cuba. they would like to be able to have cruise ships go there. all of those are possibilities. what could stand in the way? we have to see what the reaction is from cuba because they have to also be willing to allow these things to happen. so we will see how this plays out in the coming weeks, coming months and potentially the coming years. that was a topic of the conversation between raul castro and the president as well as the upcoming visit by pope francis to both of their countries. >> you were talking about opposition. republicans some saying they don't like the changes in the cuban policy. what are some of the major tent

polls of that? >> you have people who believe and said this vociferously. marco rubio says he would reverse everything the president has done. they believe it is rewarding regime. there is a new msnbc telemundo poll that suggests it is popular. 62% approve. 67% of latinos. when you look at looking the embargo totally, something that would require action by congress, two-thirds of adults, 66% including 70% of latinos are in favor of that. how many people would want to go to cuba? that is more evenly split. 48% said they would. 49% said they would not. you can put me in the category of i would definitely go.

>> the weather would be quite nice. thank you so much. still to come in the final part of an nbc news exclusive, the prison worker who helped two convicts escape says she is sorry. >> i'm not the monster everybody thinks i am. >> controversy after a teenager was apparently tackled to the ground by multiple officers for allegedly jaywalking. and the new 2016 feud. war of words erupting between hillary clinton and carly fiorina. bring us your aching and sleep deprived. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again with aleve pm. ♪ ♪

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breaking news tonight in the kim davis case.

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breaking news, new accusations that the kentucky clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples defied a federal judge's order not to interfere. an attorney for one deputy clerk says davis has removed her name and the name of the county from the forms. the attorney says the alterred forms are not valid now and thus violate the judge's order. we reached out to kim davis's attorney for comment and have not received a response from them. joining me now are legal analysts charles and eugene o'donnell and former new york police officer and prosecutor. thank you for being here today. let's start with you. what does this mean for kim davis? >> i think it means a lot of

trouble for kim davis. there is a standing order that tells her not to interfere with these marriage licenses. it seems she has done that simply by tampering with these documents. it wouldn't surprise me if she faces additional charges. i don't know that she has to authority to remove the county name. i don't know that she has the authority to remove her name from the forms. i cannot understand why she would go through such lengths and trouble because she has this sort of religious rationale for not issuing these marriage licenses. it is extreme and overstepping. >> it would seem there might be concern here for the couples who were issued licenses without kim davis's name on them. >> there will have to be look to see what the removal process is if she continues to do this. it is a bad idea to disregard a judge's order in any court but particularly when a federal

judge is telling you to do something. she should do that and if she is not going to follow the directive of the federal judge then there is going to have to be a look at removing her from office. it's not for her, obviously, as basically a person who does a job to determine conditions under which people can be married. >> i want to move to a story in california where police are under fire after a youtube video shows what appears nine officers tackling a teen accused of jaywalking. a witness partially recorded the incident. let's look at that quickly. >> jaywalking right here. >> that is a child! what is wrong with y'all? that's a kid! what's wrong with y'all?

>> the video does not show what led up to that incident. police saying the teen did not comply with the lawful order to stop walking and swore at the officer and tried to grab the officer's baton. the family filed a formal complaint. police saying the incident is under review. from what you can tell from the video was the response from the police appropriate? >> i also wait for the facts to come in. the facts tend to change the initial impression often. it is important to say that this is a reminder that there is no small enforcement in the police world. this is the difficulty. we have seen this in new york where there is an emphasis to cut down on pedestrian fatalities and injuries and tremendous trepidation about sepding the police forward. when the police go forward in

these cases people are in custody and not free to leave. they can be handcuffed. the stakes are higher than they might appear. this is one of the great dilemmas that they have. they want to do the enforcement. people are often not very happy to be called out about jaywalking. don't you have anything else to do and something else to spend your time better with? this is the police dilemma. try to do this kind of what many people seems like trivial enforcement. there is no trivial enforcement. when you step in there the stakes are always potential. there is potential for officers to get hurt and for people cited to be hurt. so at the same time we want laws to be enforced we have to recognize the complexities. >> i want to get your perspective on this. i want to add information saying the arresting officer's body camera was knocked off during the initial altercation.

we don't have that video as of yet. as we go through the investigation we might. that would no doubt be very key to what is happening here. >> what i find most disconcerting is the point at which you see the young man i believe he is 14 years old, sitting there not moving, not doing anything threatening whatsoever and then you see the other officer walk up to him, grab him and proceed to slam him on to the ground. you see seven or eight other officers jump on top of him, as well. that is excessive. it is excessive no matter how many different ways you look at it. i think this is a problem pervasive throughout the country. video cameras are catching this for everyone to see. i think we all know that that reaction is not in proportion to what he is alleged to have done. if he is alleged to have jaywalked and he may have had an attitude or what have you, but do you need nine officers to slam a 14 year old to the ground

because he allegedly jaywalked? no. would this happen if it were in an afflouent community? we all know the answer would be a resounding no. that is what makes this so disconcerti disconcerting. it is a problem that is pervasive across america. i'm glad the videos exist to shed light on it. >> i wanted to read the reaction from the police department. and the police department said this, quote, if everyone would learn to comply with lawful orders from police officers and not try to hold or grab any of our weapons force would never have to be used. so very quickly here -- we have to finish. >> there is core truth to that but it is a 14-year-old kid and police have to be the adults here for lack of a better term.

often by the time the facts are in they get much more tricky and continues to be a problem to say we want to do minor enforcement and it is going to be problem free. minor enforcement is not problem free. it is always going to come with potential problems. >> just that you know i think that it's not true. we have all seen incidents where suspects have complied and yet they have been abused or brutalized by police. freddie gray comes to mind in baltimore. he complied when he was being arrested and ended up dead. we see it time and time again. you don't have to suspend belief in order to see that this is a problem that is pervasive in america. i am glad the videos exist and shed light on them. >> thank you so much for your time today. >> you're welcome. >> thank you, richard. today we have more on the woman who helped two inmates escape a new york prison back in june. in part two of her exclusive

interview joyce mitchell talked about the plot. >> the plan was to get them changed, get them in the car. you would have drugged lyle. he would have been passed out at home. and what did they say they were going to do? >> at first matt said he was going to go back and take care of lyle. he was going to kill lyle. and that i couldn't let him kill my husband. there's no way. >> you keep saying i love my husband. and it's hard to believe. >> i know it's hard to believe, but i do love my husband. and i have always loved my husband. i was going through a point in my life a lot of people go through depression. a lot of people go through that. and i just got in over my head and i couldn't get out. and i couldn't tell anybody.

i couldn't tell my husband. i couldn't tell my family. i couldn't tell my co-workers. i couldn't tell anybody. nobody you can tell. >> in july mitchell pleaded guilty to bringing contra band into the prison. she will be sentenced on the 28th and could face up to seven years in prison. still ahead the man assigned to investigate bowe bergdahl's disappearance testifies in a hearing on whether he should face a court-martial. performances of an opera cancelled after accusations of cultural stereotyping.

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we're learning more today about why sergeant bowe bergdahl left his post in afghanistan in 2009 and what he endured while being held captive by the

taliban. today at a hearing the defense called for witnesses to the stand including the officer who led the investigation into bergdahl's disappearance. one person who did not testify today was sergeant bowe bergdahl himself. charles hadlock is covering the hearing. thanks for being here. we just finished two days of hearings. what is the next step? >> the next step is this case will be presented to the commander of the armed forces army and will decide whether to move forward with a court-martial or something else. a stunning day of testimony from the major general who interviewed sergeant bergdahl in the hours after his release from captivity. what we learned is that bergdahl was not so much a man who was a traitor or a coward but more simply misguided and thought more of himself than he was.

by all accounts everyone enjoyed working with bergdahl in his unit. he was a good army private. he cleaned his gun. he was ready to go. he was ready to take the army to the enemy. he was ready for any type of battle. people wanted that in a soldier. there was also another side to bergdahl. he saw that he had a higher moral standard than other people. he saw that other people didn't fit the higher standard that he perceived them to be especially for his military commanders in his platoon. he had an issue with that and wanted to bring it to the attention of the army command. he couldn't go up the chain of command in the platoon so came up with a scheme to hike to a nearby post about 20 miles away. now, he knew that leaving his post would trigger a massive search for him. and that would trigger the army's interest in finding him. when he was found he presumed that he would tell his side of the story about what was

happening in his platoon to protect his fellow soldiers. that didn't work out that way. bergdahl was captured and held for 1,700 days and was tortured almost every day it was revealed today in testimony. this case now goes to possibly a court-martial but the man who conducted the investigation says that a prison sentence just doesn't fit this case for bergdahl. richard, back to you. >> thank you for that report today. still ahead on msnbc, hillary clinton fires back after carly fiorina targets her on the debate stage. controversy over an opera and accusations of stereotyping have led organizers to scrap that production. we will talk to the executive director about the back lash. but first a look at the markets. not so good. down 289 points. wall street ending with a sharp drop. the dow falling triple digits because of concerns about china and the global economy.

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the new 2016 fight hillary clinton versus carly fiorina. a reporter asked clinton about fiorina's debate performance. >> what did you think of carly fiorina's debate performance and more specifically her views for funding for planned parenthood? do you think that would allow her to be a strong presidential candidate in this country? >> i am going to let you guys be the pundits. i can tell you all of the candidates on that stage are in favor of defunding planned parenthood. i vigorously disagree with that position. >> it is the latest jab on a war of words that started when

fiorina questioned. >> this is just the usual back and forth political attacks, the kinds of things you say when you are on a debate stage and really don't have much else to say. >> now, this fight could be central to 2016. the "new york times" reporting that fiorina could offer the gop a pathway to woman voters. she took a big stride towards filling a role, a credible an c antedote. let's start with you, erin. a fight both candidates want to have? >> certainly carly fiorina does because it keeps her in the headlines. after her debate performance she is going to be in the headlines. any republican candidate wants hillary clinton to be talking about that person because it elevates them in the whole field. whether hillary clinton wants this fight, she wants women to

be on her side and this allows her to say that she represents the interests of women better just as women are starting to look at carly fiorina and say here is another woman who is a perhaps moderate republican and they may start looking at carly fiorina very seriously so hillary clinton wants to stem the tide of that quickly. >> you know, i was looking at this. the national review writing let hillary and carly fight it out for charity. a one-on-one that the two would go at each other. there is so much interest in both candidates. would that make sense? >> look, hillary clinton wants to be in a fight with anybody right now other than with reporters over her e-mail server. so that's why she engages on this. she engages i think far more in trying to fight with donald trump because that's more obviously a winning fight for

her. carly fiorina should she be able to survive the republican primary process which i think is doubtful could be an interesting challenge to clinton. each one of the republicans would like to be debating hillary clinton right now but the problem is they have to work things out among the 16 of themselves first. >> over to you on this as you are reporting on 2012 you will remember that the largest gender gap ever recorded happened in that election. it was something like 20 percentage points. when you look at carly fiorina and her good performances so far in the two debates as a candidate, is she the one that can make on that for the party and so there should be a lot of focus on what she is saying? >> sure and in that "new york times" story that you had on the screen a little bit earlier the "new york times" calls carly

fiorina a credible antedote. in 2011 michele bachmann was running for the republican nomination, the only woman in that race, as well. we are in danger of a little tokenism in talking about that. she was the front runner of that race for a few weeks there. carly fiorina showed in that debate that she has an absolute grasp, a very good grasp of a host of issues including foreign policy and did look rather credible. i was talking to an organizer for a business group, a coalition of business groups. in the last couple of days a number of woman business owners has gone to that group, this big organization having a major conference in las vegas in february demanding that carly fiorina be the key note speaker because so many people want to hear from her and she certainly got the attention of a number of women voters right now. >> despite her not doing so well as a ceo. that's an interesting request

and desire coming from that group. i want to play a little bit of what scott walker said about the media reaction to the debate so far and then get your reaction. >> i think going in we knew the narrative no matter what was going to happen was that they were going to say carly had a big night no matter what and obviously they said that. >> scott walker, i don't know, is he being too dismissive too early of fiorina in the debate performances so far? is that risky for him as he tries to get some of the key woman vote? >> i think the problem for scott walker is he had a couple of not so excellent debate performances and failed to shine. there is some indication that maybe he peaked a little too early in this process. i think it is correct that the media are building up carly fiorina now. if you follow what usually happens in the republican primaries is they have a flavor of the week and it is possible

that they are ready to move the trump flavor off the menu for a while and try something else. if passes they will go through a whole bunch of these candidates before they settle on one and that is usually the most obvious in the first place. >> thank you both and have a great weekend. >> thanks, you too. performances of a new york city opera cancelled after it was accused of adopting cultural stereotypes, being racially charged. i will talk to the executive director of that theater company. queso dip ♪ ♪ haven't been this lost in years ♪ (gps) ♪ recalculating shortest route ♪ ♪ do i really look like this? ♪ ♪ never seen this one before ♪ chicken parm you taste so good ♪ i like it. ♪ mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm

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in new york accusations of cultural stereotyping have led to cancellation of a theater production set for this winter. the controversy triggered by this flyer. after an online back lash the theater company is canceling the show. in a statement the company's executive director saying they never intended to give offense and the company regrets the missed opportunity to adapt its production. the shows will be replaced by six performances of pirates of -- joining me now is david wannen. we look at this. thanks for joining us. tell me about the discussion and how you learned about the public

backlash. >> the production started last summer with the seattle company production and there was a national response, outcry about that. our board of directors began work in april of 2015 to address this very issue. we had a separate committee that addressed this issue. we had a statement and a policy drafted by june for our annual board meeting and then we sort of went ahead with business and promoted the show and announced the season with a season brochure. when we put the image on facebook we were overwhelmed with the response that then followed. the outcry began. we did not anticipate the response to come from just the promotional material. so that is when we first really learned about the dialogue that was going on. >> so then as you now understand what the criticisms are just to boil it down to simple terms,

those who are critical of it say that is black face but it is yellow face because this is about those of japanese dissent and most of those acting are not of asian dissent. what do you say to those who put that question before you now? >> a couple of things. we are absolutely sensitive to the practice of yellow face. unfortunately, i feel we didn't go far enough obviously from the outcry that ensued. but two things. first of all, ironically the image that was put on facebook of the character portraying that began the outcry is, in fact, of asian-american dissent. she is taiwanese irish which is ironic and unfortunate beginning to the issue. secondly, though -- >> go ahead.

>> secondly, though the practice of yellow face is certainly what we deemed as a board, as a committee to be the most offensive trait that came out of the discussion and dialogue last summer. we specifically had decided to instruct the actors not to practice the use of makeup to manipulate features and complexion of skin tone. >> as you know those who have -- and it is performed all across the country every single year. your theater company which is some 40 years old has done something that other theater companies have not and that is you have decided not to go ahead with the production. a lot of critics saying good on you for being so responsible. what would you say to those that have had these criticisms across the country? what would you say to them to make them feel better? >> i would say i think it is time that we figure out how to

bring mikado into the 21st century. we need to listen to what our communities are telling us. and we need to develop a production that is bold and beautiful but eliminates the practice of yellow face. what we have realized is that can include any representation of characters being japanese. it can also include actors of asian dissent in casts. our emphasis is on putting the very best product that we can in front of audiences and having the very best singers and actors regardless of race and ethnicity. so basically you can look at this as a postponement so that we can get our artistic plan together for a wonderful new production which is a very historical first for us. it will be very exciting going forward. >> yes. it has been done before.

executive director david wannen you guys have done such great work in the past. when you do come out with that it will be well attended. thank you for your time today. >> i appreciate it. >> we'll bght back. now that's a full weekend. join in and guess the five stops they made by tweeting #altimaweekendcontest for a chance to win your own weekend adventure! car radio: with our monday morning traffic report...

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