it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. this morning, my question, what is it that president obama declared un-american yesterday at the white house? plus, live from paris. and the sublime strategy of carly fiorina. but first, look away from the lead car and check out who's drafting. good morning.

i'm melissa harris perry. nascar. the multibillion dollar stock car racing. i live in north carolina. south carolina is kind of a big deal there. part of the draw of nascar is of course the danger. cars are traveling at speeds of up to 200 miles an hour. they do it just inches away from each other. see, this, it's called drafting. you see it all the time in nascar. especially at the talledega speedway. getting within centimeters of another car when you're both going really, really fast. seep seeps kind of crazy but it's not. why? it's all about arrow dynamics. air molecules create friction against the car, slowing it down. this is called drag. drag is the enemy. nascar teams reduce drag all sorts of ways. the cars are as low to the ground as possible. pit crews tape up the grils to block air from flowing through the engine. the side view mirrors are on the inside of the car.

then there's drafting. in drafting, the lea car is hitting the air molecules and getting the drag. by hugging close behind within the first car's slip stream, the second car skips the drag and both cars go faster. now, it's only an extra few miles an hour faster. but even the tiniest advantage counts in a race like this. you might think you always want to be in the lead in this situation. but the extra benefit for the car in back is because it's being pulled along, it has some energy and reserve. the goal is still to cross that finish line first of course. so when it comes time, that second car can use extra energy, speed up and sling slot around the front-runner to victory. it's a technique that's used in all sorts of races. nascar, cycling, speed skating. presidential. oh, yeah. presidential. we saw some superb examples of drafting during this wednesday's republican debate at the ronald reagan library in california. senator marco rubio and ohio governor john kasich like

champs. some of their opponents were trying desperately to cut off leader donald trump. >> jeb, jeb, i was a business man. i get along with clinton. i get along with everybody. that was my job to get along with people. >> the simple fact is -- >> excuse me -- >> no, you cannot take -- >> -- more energy tonight, i like that. >> we don't need an apprentice in the white house, we have one now. >> i thing women all over this country heard very clearly what mr. trump said. >> i'm very concerned about having him in charge of the nuclear weapons because i think his response, his visceral response to attack people on their appearance, short, tall, fat, ugly. my goodness. that happened in junior high. >> but rubio and kasich took a very different tact. staying quiet when it came to trump. crouched just behind those vying for first place. when given the chance to attack trump, they consistently deflected the questions. >> how much responsibility,

mr. trump, did the senators hold? >> i think they have a responsibility, absolutely. i think we have three of them here. i think they had a responsibility. >> we have zero responsibility. let's remember what the president said. he said the attack that he was going to attack was going to be a pin prick. the united states military was not built to conduct pin prick attacks. >> donald trump says the hedge fund guys are getting away with murder by paying a lower tax rate. he wants to raise the taxes of hedge fund managers as does bush. do you agree? >> i don't at this point in terms of changing the incentives for investment and risk taking. there's one person on this stage who does have a record. i'm the only person on the stage and one of the few people in this country that led the effort as the chief architect of the last time we balanced the federal budget. >> did you catch that drafting? they don't need to take down the front-runner themselves. they'll benefit if anybody does and they won't get battered in the process. they're hoping to reserve a little wit of energy and sling slot to the front of the pack

when it comes to when it matters the most. joining me now is representative barbara lee, a democrat from california. e.d. demoyne. a senior fellow at the brookings institution. julie pace, chief white house correspondent for the associated press. and michelle bernard, president of the bernard center for women politics and public policy. lovely to have you all here. nice to be back in d.c. julie, do you think i got this right, do you think that drafting strategy is what's going on with a couple of those candidates? >> i think you nailed it perfectly. for rubio and kasich it actually is a great strategy right now. they're looking at this large field. they have a solid base of support at this point. they have enough money to compete for months if this race goes on for quite a long time. they don't really have an incentive to go after trump directly if they know that bush and walker and others are going to do that. they need someone to do it. it just doesn't need to be them right now. >> this idea that bush is playing this role of going

after -- you even hear mr. trump during that moment say, oh, better energy tonight, good job, jeb, right? i'm wondering, should jeb be drafting or does he need to attack trump? >> i don't think he has a choice. hope every nascar fan in america now becomes a fan of the -- this isn't the only political show i know talking about drafting. although it's funny, a conservative friend of mine, henry olsen, a great political analyst, probably because he's not from carolina, also talked about drafting. he was talking about horse racing. he agrees with you. i think this is a classic thing in campaigns. you saw it, for example, in a governor's race, in california, where there were two front-runners and this was when gray davis was running. they just went at each other. the voters get sick of the attack and they say who else is up there. so i think there's a classic political thing here. but those guys don't ever want to gain by going after trump.

the other guy who's doing a peculiar form of drafting is ted cruz. where his idea is some day trump will collapse or might collapse. i'm going to pick up his supporters. so he doesn't say a cross-word about trump. he always said nice things about him. saying, guys, trump supporters, i'm here if something happens. >> more the wing man than the drafting. it also occurs to me part of why we love nascar, north carolina, is the inherrant danger that always exists. also, it just strikes me that part of whatever strategy is going on in the gop primary, there's a stoking of fear. a stoking of this sense of danger. and especially around, for example, the iranian deal, the idea that somehow the president is not keeping us safe as a nation. and i'm wondering if you can respond to that. >> you know, preying on fear, which is a terrible emotion, to me, is just fundamentally wrong.

the american people won't be fooled by that, i don't believe. i think that people will know at some point that the republicans are really just trying to play to their emotions rather than talking about the real issues like the issue around the affordability of college education, access to affordable housing, access to the ballot box. i mean, the real issues these candidates should actually be addressing. they're not addressing them. and so the playing on the fears of people, many of these candidates, the republican candidates are doing, is not going to work. people are going to wake up and see fearmongering should not be part of the political discourse when you're going to support a candidate or determine who you're going to support. >> on this fearmongering, there was a little bit of a revisionist history moment that happened. i want to play jeb bush talking about his brother's track record as president. >> yes. >> your brother and your

brother's administration gave us barack obama. because it was such a disaster the last few months that abraham lincoln couldn't be elected. >> as relates to my brother, there's would be thing i know for sure, he kept us safe. i don't know if you remember, donald -- >> so that was meant to be like his comeback and instead people were, like, sir, i'm not sure if you remember 9/11 actually did happen. and katrina happened on your brother's watch. >> i don't think that's what he was thinking. i think this was jeb bush actually drafting, you know. he's going to sort hang out there and allow donald trump to implode. which eventually i think is going to happen. from what we've seen from jeb bush so far, i think that's the best we've seen him. if we don't -- i don't want to say ignore, but -- i don't want to take away in any sense that 9/11 happened. i thing his point was that after 9/11, on his brother's watch, the united states was not

attacked at home again. and it gave him an opportunity to look like a leader, to be strong, to be emphatic, to be as donald trump would say, high energy. that moment and the moment when he protect his wife were i think his greatest moments in the second debate and he needed to do that. >> i got to say, anthrax did happen after 9/11 and -- >> he is talking to republicans. there are two worlds in america. "the washington post" story this morning. where it's as if you have completely different groups of people talking about completely different things. that line went over really well with republicans. >> absolutely. >> and for now, he desperately needs the support from republicans. if you like revisionist history, you'll love the republican debate. >> i think it's actually a little more simple. he has struggled with this question of what to do with his brother throughout this campaign and what his supporters liked about that moment is it was

device cisive decisive, it was clear. he handled the brother question -- >> style even more than substance -- >> oh, man, they're getting on fire now. i promise when we come back, we'll have more on this debate and the way it's making all of us feel. up next, the candidate who may have had the best comeback against trump. cocktail bitters was huge. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding. fast. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. you can't predict it, but you can be ready. another step on the journey. will you be ready when growth presents itself. realize your buying power at open.com. iand quit a lot,t but ended up nowhere. now i use this. the nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release technology, helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time.

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the consensus winner from the republican debate was carly fiorina. her excellent response to donald trump's remarks about her looks. >> i think women all over this country heard very clearly what mr. trump said. >> it was so clean. it was so -- but it was -- it had that kind of strength you were talking about with jeb. i wonder with this, as much as

we talk about drafting as one way to pull back. >> in the second debate, she basically made it from the kiddie table from the first debate. this was her first appearance on the stage with the quote/unquote big boys. she's the only woman on the stage. there would inevitably -- comparisons, i would imagine viewers think to themselves, is she like michele bachmann, is she like sarah palin, like hillary clinton. she had to hang back but also move forward. her performance was extraordinary. whether you agree with her politics or not. the way she handled herself. the way she was able to get back and donald trump made the comment about jeb bush smoking pot 40 years ago. she did it in a way where people would not say that was a shrill woman. very important. >> very measured. >> i think people are getting -- i'm sick and tired of all these personal attacks.

i think it's going to be very important that all of the candidates realize that that's got to stop or else. the one who stops the personal attacks and starts talking about the real issues such as equal pay, paid family medical leave. not that carly fiorina supports all these issues. i think what's going to happen is people will say, where do you stand and all these important issues that affect our daily lives. why are you going after people personally. >> in making that pivot to say i think the american -- in america heard it. don't make it about you, make it about the people who vote for you want. and yet in that moment and then of course the thing that occurs after, the big thing that blows up in the press around mr. trump has been his failure to stop someone from saying a series of really trouble things about the president. he actually tweeted about it. i don't want to play the comments themselves which i found offensive. but i thought it would be interesting to see how mr. trump

responded. he's saying, look, i don't have to -- why is it my responsibility to stop someone else from saying something offensive? and i was like, because when you do, you look like a president. so let me just play john mccain actually stopping someone from saying something offensive in '08. >> i can't trust obama. >> i got you. >> i have read about him and he's not -- he's a -- he's an arab. he's not -- >> no, ma'am, no, ma'am. >> no? >> no, ma'am, no, ma'am, no, ma'am. he's a decent family man citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. and that's what this campaign is all about. he's not. thank you. >> i mean -- >> whoa. >> that was extraordinary. and what donald trump did i found to be horrifying. number one, let's assume that the president is muslim. we know he's not, but let's assume he is muslim. so what? being muslim doesn't mean

jihadist. being muslim doesn't mean you hate america. being muslim doesn't mean you want to blow up the country or it disqualifies you from being president. secondly if you want to be the leader of the greatest nation in the world, and even appear or pretend that you care about our constitution, why not put that person in their place and say this is not the america we stand for. >> maybe giving trump a little too much credit. you have to remember where the trump running for president -- >> the birther movement. >> so he is not -- >> almost to expect that he would i think is giving him a little too much credit for what his real goals here probably are. >> he embarrassed the country. >> he absolutely could not renounce that guy. first of all, good for you, it's so important, whenever this comes up, people say, why -- what could be wrong with having an arab or muslim president. that's important. but secondly, his base are the people who believe what that guy believes. significant part of his base. not the whole thing.

he came into this business -- he began to build the following on the right with birther -- >> but john mccain had many of those people in his base as well and he was like, no, mai'am, yo are not -- let me show you what leadership is. >> he has integrity. he did have a different base. >> once again, donald trump, first of all, it is speaking to people who, again, are fearful of others. secondly, i believe that donald trump doesn't even understand religious freedoms in our country. as a basic central tenant. as a country that values all religions. tells me, tells the public that he doesn't really get it in terms of our religious diversity. >> is he really -- i mean, is that leadership? i mean, the answer's no. that's not a leader. >> that was the point to me. he always talked about, i'll

take the slings and arrows. we'll talk about whether or not dr. carson boosted his campaign's prognosis.

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after you reach your limit. you can barely watch your shows. this is no way to treat people. a better network doesn't mess with your data. (underwater echo) during wednesday's gop debate, ben carson, a retired pediatric neuro surgeon, had an interesting moments when he was asked about the claim that vaccines cause autism. >> there have been numerous studies and they've not demonstrated there is any correlation between vaccines and autism. the ones that would prevent death or -- there are others, multitude of vaccines, which probably don't fit in that category. a lot of this is pushed by big

government. >> so i just have to say, all of a sudden, ben carson turns back into a doctor. he has a really interesting moment in the debate for me. like, right, that's what that guy is. >> unfortunately, it was about the three-hour mark. >> man, who are you telling, that was a long debate. >> it was interesting because it's almost as if he realized, i'm talking to a conservative audience. they may not agree with me. so he throws in that thing about big government at the end. just to make sure it works. >> african-american physician does not support the affordable care act or access to health care by -- for all. >> right. >> in terms of the expansion of medicaid, supporting what the president has done. you would think as a physician, he knows that -- african-american physician, he would know that african-americans need health care coverage. >> this is so interesting because you know all of us would grew up in a certain time here, were all told to read dr. carson's book. he was this kind of -- >> and watch the tv movie.

he's kind of the up from, you know, nothing. but he becomes valuable in parts of the gop. let me go to this question. is it that he's valuable to the gop in part because he's an african-american with such a strong critique of the president? it's not to say he's not standing on his own merits but i guess i'm wondering what the value of that particular critique is to the party. >> so here's my vantage point on it. i say this as someone who deeply admires him as a physician and his pull up -- you know, pull yourself up by the boot straps story. the jamaican mother. i have to always throw that in there. >> something you share. >> exactly. for everything that he has accomplished, ben carson, as a republican presidential candidate, i have found it mind-boggling at his success. the only conclusion i can come to is he does not help the

republican party bauz ecause he an african-american man. he is helpful to certain elements of the republican party because he is an absolutely nonthreatening black man. from 2008 through 2012, it was always the discussion, is barack obama an angry black man. and republicans, they love ben carson. they loved herman cain. he's quiet, he's affable, he's meek, he doesn't fight back with people, doesn't have much to say on policy. and i think that is why he, frankly, is doing so well in the republican party. >> and yet ben said when you look at that gop stage two latino candidates, an african-american candidate and a woman running. it just does actually look better than the democratic party whose base is in fact much more diverse. >> one of the things republicans still have to figure out -- it goes back to sarah palin actually when she was running -- the vice presidential choice for mccain. being a woman doesn't necessarily mean that women will vote for you. being african-american does not

mean african-americans will vote for you. it does come down to policy. >> what it does do is say if someone wants to level a charge of racism against the party, they can say, excuse me, your candidate slate is actually less diverse. it's not so much it helps with those marginal voters but because there are many white americans who don't want to be seen as racist, it allows you to say this is not a party with a race problem. >> he thinks like we do. >> he things like us. >> he believes michael ferguson -- >> one is precisely what you're talking about, will probably increase pressure on democrats to put a latino or even an african-american on the ticket. i think it's a factor. second ben carson actually stands i think in a long historical tradition that conservatives in our country, whether back in the day when they were even segregationist democrats, have always liked the up from your boot straps self-help. it goes back to booker t.

>> he got to the white house -- turn of the century. >> i don't want to be unfair to booker t. people liked tim scott. people liked j.c. watts who were successful republican -- >> look at the reaction -- i'm sorry, i'll shut up, but the reaction to colin powell. the reaction to condoleezza rice. they are very different in their persona. they have been strong. powell has been adamant about his, you know, admiration for barack obama and that makes him as a black man in the republican party persona nongrata. >> when the republican party realized dr. carson has no support in the african-american community, it's going to be interesting how they see him as being valuable to the party. believe you me, the african-american community, we get it in terms of pulling yourself up by your boot straps. but we also get it in terms of opportunities. and the federal government providing that basis for us to

achieve equality and a just society for us and our people. dr. carson certainly is not speaking to justice and equality and opportunity for african-americans or people of color. when they see the black community doesn't support him -- >> he did speak to the fact vaccines are safe. thank you to julie pace and to michelle bernard. very nice to have you on the set. a quick update to the breaking news we've been following on msnbc. police in phoenix have made an arrest in a recent string of shootings along an interstate there. 21-year-old lesley allen merit jr. is in custody this morning after being arested last night at a walmart. his father insists he is innocent. detectives say they linked his gun to the first of four shootings that occurred last month. investigators are still investigating the shootings that have followed as they think those were acts by copycats. no one has been seriously hurt. the seemingly random shooting of vehicles along the interstate

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the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. when the white house released president obama's summer reading list, one book on the list of six was of particular note. it was ta-nehisi coate's best selling "between the world and me." coates has been publicly critical of the president in the past. the selection by president obama only goes to illustrate the particular role that coates has come to occupy in this country's public discourse. in praise of between the world and me, author toni morrison wrote, i've been wondering who

might fill the intellectual void that plagued me after james baldwin died. clearly it's coates. this week, coates' book was announced as one of ten finalists for the national book award for nonfiction. coates wrote a cover story for the atlantic magazine called the case for reparations. that piece won the award for commentary. as new york magazine points out, was probably the most discussed magazine piece of the obama era. such is the power of coates' pen. when he writes, people listen. they all want to know what this 39-year-old raised in northwest baltimore thinks. it's a rare space in the public discourse for any writer to occupy it coates at times seems to do so with some hesitation. but now, he has a new story to tell. he'll join us live from paris next.

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the black family in the age of mass incarceration. is writer ta-nehisi coates latest in "the atlantic magazine." for generations of african-american people. coates reached back to the earliest days of american history to tie mass incars ration. as coates writes of u.s. policy informed by these perceptions, quote, one does not build a safety net for a race of predators. one builds a cage. coates traces the thread of this notion that african-americans are a problem in need of social control instead of social support through the last five decades of criminal justice policy. at its end, millions of people disproportionate number of them, african-american, behind bars, comprising the planet's biggest

population of prisoners. at its beginning, a 1965 government report that diagnose signatured the persistent problems in the african-american community as originating in its heart, the black family. the negro family. the case for national action, was compiled in 1965 by daniel patrick moynihan during his time as an adviser to president richard nixon. moynihan's view, african-american families broken under the weight of centuries of racial oppression suffered from a structural deformity that denied black man their rightful place as heads of households and mired their race in a culture pathology. he writes, in essence, the negro community has been forced into a matriarchal structure. which seriously retards the progress of the group as a whole. in consequence, on a great many negro women as well. while moynihan believed there

was policy. coates argued the state invested in mass incarceration as its solution. coates finds strains of moynihan's beliefs even in obama's rhetoric about african-american families and underlying the policies of clinton who presided over a larger increase in the prison population than any previous president. he says of the consequences, that, quote, there's very little evidence that it brought down crime and abundant evidence that it hindered employment for black men and accelerated the kind of family breakdown that clinton and moynihan both lamented. the final paragraphs of the piece, coates begins to offer his take on what meaningful systemic reform might look like, with the suggestion that his latest story is, in fact, a continuation of his original argument in his 2014 piece, the case for reparations. coates writes, the experience of mass incarceration, the warehousing and deprivation of all swaths of our country.

transforming that into wealth. the pursuit of the war on drugs on nakedly race it's grounds have only intensified the ancient american dilemmas white hot core. the problem of past unequal treatment. the difficulty of damages. and the question of reparations. coates joins me now from paris, france. nice to have you. >> thanks for having me, melissa. >> i'm sorry, moynihan report is not nixon, it's actually under johnson. i got that wrong. but why begin with the moynihan report? for understanding how we should construct this kind of intersection between race and criminality? >> that was one of the last moments where somebodyyriad pro african-american community and suggested a broad swath of investments to deal with them. that was a political calculation

made by moynihan himself. he decided not to -- it wasn't like he didn't know. he knew very much what to do. one of the things he talked about doing was unequality. reparations to make up for past unequal treatment. he had a suite of solutions. increased access to birth control. really wild ideas like saturday postal service to increase employment for black men. but i think the reason it s why country did not adopt that kind of investment. actually are within the korea of moynihan himself and the report unfortunately. >> i want to push on to choice to use mine hand to think about incourse ration, especially around black men's bodies. part of what you don't spend a long time doing is teasing out the extraordinary influence of this report on jentderred notions of the american social welfare policy.

ta-nehisi is gone. are you still there? >> i'm here. >> great. i'm sorry, we lost you for a second. >> hello, i'm here. >> talk to me a little bit about the gender piece. >> well, i mean, one of the -- probably the most wrong aspect. i'll just put this into two things. i think the whole lens of looking at the problems in the african-american community through the notion of family and strictly through the notion of family, the idea that that's the bet way to understand, is severely limited. i think it doesn't take into account the fact of community, that families live around other families. that policy directed around neighborhoods has effects. you can't just address that by having a father and a mother in a home. one of the reasons why i think that report, you know, ultimately, you know, failed, you know, is it trafficked in very old ideas within the field of sociology at that time about what black families were. this notion of a matt tree

yaeshg, which is not merely the notion that black, you know, women are -- that black women occupy space in a single family household, but they're somehow a part of the problem. the notion that, you know, because a black woman is going out working a job and also being a mother to her kids, that that actually is part of the problem. moynihan in some memos pushes much further than he does in the report and goes so far as to say if we have to push black women out of jobs to employ black men, we should do that. talking about gis coming home from vietnam. saying the first thing he would do is get them a list of real estate listings and a wife who looked like diane carol. i think that sort of rendering of black families indicates, you know, first of all that he can't see black women, but that you can't actually see black communities and black families as fully functioning units in which human beings occupy. i think that kind of dehumanization is part of the story for why we ended up with an investment through incarceration and not the

solutions he wanted. >> let's go to that dehumanizing piece for a moment. you write, when the doors finally close and one finds oneself facing banishment to the prison. some experience an intense sickening feeling. others a strong desire to sleep. visions of suicide. rage directed towards guards and other inmates. utter disbelief. for those who believe that the criminal justice system is locking up the bad guys, why should they care that that's how people experience it? >> well, i mean, i don't know what the term bad guy necessarily means. the criminal justice system is locking up people who have committed acts of violence. that seems to be definitely true. the question for me is we had a serious dramatic dram matt inincrease in the population of our jails and prisons. the question is, does the crime wave we experienced in the late 60s, into the '70s, through the

'90s, does it explain that. the fact of the matter is when we look at this internationally, when we look at other countries, we find other countries had a similar crime rise and a similar fall. only the united states of america adopted a policy of mass incarceration. one of the tasks i set out with this piece is to understand why did it do that. my argument is to take this back to the report, when you have these dehumanizing notions of people already, it makes it a lot easier to do certain things. you know, in the article, i go beyond just the report in terms of the things moynihan said. when you get into, say, the nixon white house, and he's sending memos, saying effectively the black middle class is using lower class blacks to explain things from white house people, that lower class blackings are becoming increasingly violent, extraordinarily self-damaging, it becomes very, very easy to pass policy that locks people up. when you think about folks, these folkings are not human.

they're extraordinarily self-damaging in moynihan's words. that's the, you know, people in their heart who are trying to help you. >> as always, your piece is rich and textures and long ton get through. and a valuable contribution to our public discourse. >> i'm sorry. >> no, it's great, we love it. high nerd land. >> next time, i'm just going to tweet. >> this is terrible. thanks, ta-nehisi for joining us from paris. when we come back, a scathing new report showing who bears the cost. are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now...

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a new study looks beyond the tally of prison populations and taxpayer dollars to take stock of the human cost of mass incarceration. over the course of a year, researchers from the ella baker center for human rights forward together and research action

design worked with 20 community organizations to interview hundreds of formerly incarcerated persons. their families and their employers. their findings compiled in a report titled who pays, the true cost of incarceration on families. show that the consequences of criminal justice policies extend far beyond the incarcerated individual and past the end of a sentence. to reverberate with long-term harms throughout the families and communities. exacerbates economic vulnerabilities and those burdens fall most heavily on low-income women of color. back with me is representative barbara lee from california. msnbc contributor e.j. on. and president and ceo of the leadership conference on human rights. and mark maur, executive director of the sentencing project. basically just to get to this question that is the report, who bears the cost of incarceration?

>> we often forget, the day a person is sentenced in the courtroom, it's not only that person but his or her entire family is bearing some of that burden. the person goes away for a few years. in most states, most prisoners come from urban communities. most prisons are built in rural communities often hundreds of miles away from home. so now we say well it's very important for people in prison to keep up ties with their family. and yet we make it very difficult for them to do that. if you want to go and visit your loved one in prison, you need a good car to get there, you probably have to pay for a hotel. if you want to get a phone call home, prisoners have to call collect. at ex-orb tent rates. you're constantly battling, do i buy milk and groceries for kids or do i take a call from my husband in prison. >> that idea that people who are incarcerated come from poor communities and families most frequently and then those poor communities and families end up

also bearing the costs. and so part of what's happened in this kind of shift around our incarceration language has been an economic discourse. if you were a criminal justice reformer 15 years ago, it was the prison industrial complex and how there was big money to be made in the system. now we're hearing it's a bad investment. i have a little hard time balancing this as an economic rather than an ethical question. >> well, there is an extraordinary economic underpinning to the prison industrial complex. but i think ta-nehisi's article as well as the ella baker report underscores three things. one, there's consequence at the intersection of policy with criminal justice reform, as well as on a conscious bias and a structural inequality. secondly, there is a huge issue with respect to the voting participation of individualings in their communities. unless we restore the voting rights act, the idea of seeking

reform as i think these articles emphasize got to be difficult to achieve. thirdly, every member of congress on the judiciary committee should be required to read these articles and this report. because i really think they paint a picture that is both powerful and compelling. and provides insight on how the unintended consequences of mass incarceration really undercut the ability to achieve meaningful reform in the communities which are affected by it. >> the way you've sort of put these two together, coates' piece and this ella baker piece feel to me like the ferguson report of kind of our national incarceration story. because we can see 63% of family members who are paying the cost of conviction, 83% of those are women. we see that families go into dead. 1 in 3 families go into dead because of the phone calls and visits you were talking about. like the ferguson report that talks about policing kind of these interactions in a narrow sense. but then a much broader kind of

economic consequence of how this whole system is built on poor folks, that just feels to me like, now coates and ella baker report have shown us how this is true nationally. >> one of the most interesting things i thought about coates' piece is the way he used the moynihan report. because there are a lot of us who believes that family structure matters and you need to help put the family back together. if you care about equality, you got to care about the family. if you care about the family, you got to care about equality. but what this piece shows us is, all right, to everybody who says what i just said, to everybody who talks about the family, would you please look at what the impact of our incarceration policies have on families. if you care about families, you got to worry about the overincarceration of people. the other thing about the report and this piece is you got to see this in the context of whole communities. the problems facing whole communities. and, you know, i'm a family guy but i know it's not just the

family. so i think putting these together is really advancing the discussion we're having of overincarceration in the country. >> let me give first a shoutout to ella baker, they're located in california and they do phenomenal work. secondly, i think what ta-nehisi has said makes the case for what he wrote about in his first piece, the case for reparations, okay. secondly, let me put a couple of thingings in context in terms of public policy in terms of our incouri incarceration rates. formerly incarcerated individuals out now who were prosecuted for a drug conviction are denied pell grants. that's wrong. secondly, ineligible for life, drug offenses. for food stamps. snap benefits. thirdly ineligible for public housing. what michelle alexander titled her book, the new jim crow, we see policies now that are

resegregating people who have been incarcerated, especially for nonviolent drug offenses. it's wrong. it's morally wrong. it's destroying many, many families. >> that's exactly what we're going to go. when we come back, we're going to dig into those sets of policies and what this administration might, might be prepared to do better. my guests are coming back. but coming up, president obama weighs in, yesterday, at the white house, on prison reform. and batman meets black lives matter. seriously. plus the intergenerational struggle continues. more mhp at the top of the hour. the promise of the cloud is that every organization has unlimited access to information, no matter where they are. the microsoft cloud gives our team the power to instantly deliver critical information to people, whenever they need it. here at accuweather, we get up to 10 billion data requests every day. the cloud allows us to scale up so we can handle that volume.

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it's four cold symptom fighters put you back in control. stay unstoppable. alka-seltzer plus. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. welcome back. i'm melissa harris perry. we've been talking this morning about the cover story of the october issue of the atlantic. the black family in the age of mass incarceration. the piece, written by the atlantic's national correspondent ta-nehisi coates,

takes a deep dive into the impact of u.s. criminal justice policy on the african-american community. coates' cover story follows elected officials across decades calling for increased sentencing and arrest like president nixon saying in 1968, quote, doubling the conviction rate in this country would do far more to cure crime in america than call droopling the funds for the war on poverty. over the next 45 years, incarceration increased sevenfold and poverty rates rose even as the crime rate peaked. policymakers continued to tout tough on crime rhetorics as the -- and the merits of severe isn'ting, sentencing requirements. yesterday president obama took the extraordinary step of using his pulley bull pit to critique the system of incourse ration that has discarded the lives and talents of so many.

>> these young people didn't have any margin for error. and that notion that as a consequence of youthful mistakes, they could end up in a life long cycle of crime to where the prospect of them being able to recover and re-enter society with gainful employment and the ability to be part of their children's lives and to be citizens appeared remote, the notion that's how we think our criminal justice system should work, that that should be the end result, there's something un-american about that. >> just days ahead of a visit by pope francis which will include

a two-day stop in philadelphia and a meeting with 100 prisoners and their families, including violent offenders. the president shown an honest if unflattering light, on the reality that the united states is the global leader in incarceration. the president did something very important and far too rare. he referred to incarcerated americans as citizens. >> the people in these prisons are deserving of our attention. they're human beings. with hopes and dreams who in many cases have made profound mistakes but are american citizens nonetheless. >> the president has made criminal justice reform an increasingly central part of his policy focus as the administration aprops its final year. when he visited a federal penitentiary in july, he became the first sitting u.s. president to visit a prison. his trip was filmed for a documentary special airing next

week on hbo. >> it was a strong political incentive i think to continually be tough on drugs. the thing just kept on getting ratcheted up. we think it's somehow normal for a black youth or latino youth to be going through the system in this way. it's not normal. >> and the focus on criminal justice reform has been evident across the administration. just hours before the president called our nation's incarceration practices un-american, attorney general loretta lynch delivered a substantive address at the congressional black caucus convention. speaking about the consequences of overincarceration on our sit steps and placing it at the center of a narrative about the arc of progress of our nation. >> we're also focusing on re-entry, because as we work out ways -- [ applause ]

as we work out ways for these young people to return home, some of them will not be so young when they get out, but as we work out ways for them to return home, we have to also work out ways for them to rebuild a home. we have to work out ways for them to return to not just their families and their communities, but to society. the ultimate participation in the american experiment called democracy is of course the right to vote. and that is why the department of justice -- [ applause ] continues to call for all states to revisit the issue of felon disenfranchisement. let them vote. let them vote. we are talking about our country's most sacred right. >> so even as the atlantic's ta-nehisi coates mapped the decades of incarceration

practices, president obama and attorney general lynch appear set to chart a new course but is there enough time and political will left to make it happen? joining me now, our panel of guests including wade henderson, conference on civil and human rights and mark mauer, executive director of the sentencing project. and glen martin, president and founder of leadership usa. you and i were at the white house for the announcement by the president. what did you take away from the president and his administration on this issue? >> what i took away is the administration is poised to continue to bang away on this issue. that they have decided that this issue is what advocates have been seeing for many, many years. the civil rights issue of our day. they're not just talking. there's evidence of them actually doing something. if you look at the pell grant site initiative they launched a

few weeks ago in a federal -- in a prison in maryland, i was there with the attorney general, loretta lynch. and essentially what they did is decided if congress is going to be paralyzed on some of this stuff, they can see what they'll do with the executive powers. in that case, what they did was brought college education back to the criminal justice system for thousands of people who are serving time. and as someone who earned a two-year liberal arts degree while i was serving six years in prison, i understand the value of education as a tool for people to really turn their lives around. >> glen, i know before the -- just moments before the president made his remarks, you had a few moments alone with him. and i'm wondering what the two of you said to one another. >> so i had a chance to talk to the president before he came out on stage. what i said to him was first of all thank you for having so much courage on this issue. because i think using the bully bu pup pit to help americans understand the ramifications of what has amounted to good

politics and bad policy. i also said to him, there's so much more work to be done. i talked about some of the things he can possibly do, including signs an executive order to ban the box. not just for positions within the federal government but to pull in people who contract with the federal government. which would mean be hundreds of thousand of jobs around the country would suddenly give a chance for qualified job seekers with a criminal record to compete for employment and then i mentioned a few other things he could do within his executive powers. >> glen, stay with us. i want to come out to you, mark. is -- i mean, it was such an exciting moment, particularly. attorney general lynch just dropped the whole -- everything was broken after that. she says, let them vote. let them vote. education returning to the jailhouse. and in this case also some proposals around employment possibilities on the back end with banning the box. is this an exciting moment? >> it's a very exciting moment. i've been doing this work for several decades now. it's been a real battle. we've had political sound bites

govern policy rather than research, evidence and compassion. and we see now in the last five years or so, both sides of the ais aisle, in congress, many state legislatures, we're having a different conversation. it's focused more on how do we really produce public safety. does mass incarceration contribute to that. i think there's a growing consensus we're well past the point of diminishing returns and any public safety benefits. and actually, we're having counterproductive problems that come out of this. too many people in prison, come back, can't re-enter in any meaningful way. >> is there bipartisan consen s consensus? i kept hearing that, now we're in the land of bipartisan consensus. are we really? i want to know. >> listening to the president once again, i'm so proud of what he has done. one of the reasons i endorsed him early in the primary first time around, because i knew he got it. to see this now move forward on criminal justice reform, i'm very proud of what he's doing. and thankful.

secondly, with regard to ban the box, i led the house letter. we have over 72 members on that letter regarding federal contractors to want box. we're asking the president to issue an executive order to do that. senator booker led it in the senate. i think we had 20-something senators sign that. i'm hopeful on a bipartisan way. i think when you see criminal justice reform and how it's emerging and evolving, congressman bobby scott, booker and others have really put together some bipartisan support for some of this legislation that i think is going to, you know, move forward under this presidency. >> when we come back, one of the distinctions that keeps getting made is violent versus nonviolent offenders. can you speak to that though? >> sure. i mean, you can do one or the other. you can either say we're going to strictly focus on nonviolent drug offenders and see what we can do to get those folks out of the system and to stop them from coming in for such long periods

of time. or end mass incarceration. you're not going to end mass incarceration unless you also look at the lengthy sentences that people who have been convicted of violent crimes in this country are serving now and continue to serve. it costs $80 billion a year to run our prison system. that's not going to go away unless we look at the fact that we also have given long sentences to people convicted of violent crimes. >> thank you to glen martin in new york. and up next, a criminal justice crisis. why public defenders are pleading for help. but before we go to break, we want to take you to the critical primary state of new hampshire where hillary clinton is addressing the convention of the state's democratic party. >> and he had to really work hard. under his leadership and thanks to the sacrifice of so many americans, we pulled back from brink of depression, saved the auto industry, curbed wall street abuses and provided

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as political will pushes governments towards reducing the prison population, louisiana stands apart in its steadfast resistance against this trend. it has the highest incarceration rate of any state in the country. according to data from the prison policy initiative, as incarceration rates remained steady, in most all other states and even declined in some, louisiana's rate has only riz be, approaching 900 inmates for every 100,000 people in the state. no city in louisiana houses a larger proportion by population

of those inmates than new orleans. of any city in the united states. for most of those prisoners, the responsibility for ensuring their right to a robust defense falls squarely on the shoulders of the orleans public defenders. in a recent editorial for "the washington post," one of those lawyers says the small organization represents 85% of the people charged with crimes in orleans parish. on an annual budget, a third the size of the district attorney's. now, facing a $1 million deficit because of statewide budget cuts, the overburdened office will have to do even more with even less. for the attorneys, avoiding layoffs will mean four weeks of unpaid furloughs, a heavier case load, a hiring freeze and for many of their clients, the denial of their constitutional right to representation. joining us now from new orleans, louisiana, is our guest who is chief district defender for orleans parish. what in the world is going on in my city? >> well, thank you for having me on the show.

one of the things that's going on in the city is we are illustrating what has become a growing trend across the country. and that is a user pay criminal justice system that is inadequate, unpredictable and unreliable when it comes to resources. so that has come home to roost. as we've seen state budgets decline and our own revenues go down. >> explain the user pay piece. folks may not understand where the money for the public defender's office comes from there. >> well, statewide, two-thirds of public defender budgets rely on court costs, fines and fees. that is what is paid by our clients, the people going through the system. so the system depends in an inordinate way on the fines and fees of people moving through it for its operation. that yields some wild results. and when you have a system that is aimed at the most vulnerable and poorest in our community, to depend on those poor and

vulnerable to those actually fund its operation provides the results that we are decrying right now. >> i find whenever we do work around prisons and criminal justice, the response is sometimes, why should i care, aren't these people criminals? what's the constitutional issue at stake here? >> well, the constitutional issue at stake here is the sixth amendment. everyone has a right to a lawyer. everyone has a right to a defen defense. when the government is prosecuting you. and what we have right now is a system here in new orleans and across the country that is so d d disparet and so overwhelming. you need only look at public defense and then you know you have to reform that as part of the system. we have checks and balances in our government. we don't have checks and balances in our criminal justice system. that is the role of public defe defenders. it has gone lacking over these

past few years. we have a budget a third the size of our d.a. they have 30 investigators. we have 8. they have 90 lawyers. we have 40. they have a $135 million police force investigating their cases for them. and when you look at that, you understand that there's just, in louisiana, about 1 to 2% of the funding goes to make sure someone is represented, that they're represented appropriately and their rights are protected. the rest is to catch, secure and convict. >> stick with us, don't go away. e e.j., i wanted to give you a chance to weigh. >> a couple things, just to go back to ban the box. getting rid of that box where people have to say they have a criminal record. that could make an enormous difference in at least opening the first round of possibility for people. it's very important the federal government encourage everybody to do that. secondly, on this issue of bipartisanship on criminal justice reform. up to this point, there have

been a lot of promising signs. there were a bunch of conservative groups like right on crime who has come to criminal justice reform because they don't like the government to spend a lot of money and they realize the government is spending a lot of money on prisons. some are libertarians who actually care about this. i am very worried we may be entering another and more destructive phase where a lot of the work that's gone on over the last several years to try to get us to the point where we can reform this system may get caught right back up into 1960s, early '70s style politics. you have donald trump talking about the silent majority, talking about law and order. in some cities you're seeing an increase in the murder rate. i'm worried, you know, the low crime rates relative to the past have opened up this opportunity and i hope we don't lose it. >> it's interesting, even as you're talking about the economic piece, you know, he's saying here, okay, fine, spend less money on prisons, but maybe we should spend more on criminal

defense of the indigent. >> the whole system is starved for resources. and just shameful the way we process through the courts, like an assembly line. it just reinforces why we need to end mass incarceration. there's legitimate needs in the communities those prisoners come from. one of the main ways we can deal with that is to cut back on the $80 million we're spending on corrections every year. we're not going to abolish prisons tomorrow. nobody's calling for that. we could have a substantial reduction that would ensure when people are charged with a crime, they would get a real defense and have a chance to present their case in court, not just be one one of a number of people -- >> real quick before we head out. the other thing going on in new orleans, i just don't want to miss this, the sheriff, who opened his new prison this week, has also moved more than 200 inmates to far flung parishes. making it harder, even harder for you all to even represent your clients. i at least wanted to get that on

the table here. that that's another thing you guys are dealing with. >> absolutely. what that -- what that did essentially is make our clients incommunicado. that made it impossible for them to effect their constitutional rights, access to courts and right to counsel. also increase courts. what people don't understand, there's been studies by the justice policy institute and others that shows a robust criminal justice system with a well-funded public defenders office actually reduces costs. we can control length of stay by properly presenting cases to the courts and arguing for release and the appropriate amount of time for the appropriate crime. >> i got to tell you, derwin button in new orleans, just keep fighting good fight down there. thank you to e.j. deon. still to come, batman versus police brutality.

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this morning, pope francis began his much anticipated ten-day trip to cuba and the united states. he departed from rome's international aren't and is expected to arrive this afternoon. after giving the homily during mass tomorrow at havana's revolution square, pope francis is expected to meet with cuban president raul castro who has publicly thanked the pope for his role in reviving the relationship between the united states and cuba. joining me now from havana, nbc correspondent claudio lavanga. what else can we expect from the pope's visit to cuba this weekend? >> well, as usually happens with the pope during his trips abroad, the most interesting events or moments, key moments will come off the schedule because of his impromptu decisions. we have heard, the vatican has hinted to everybody that the

pope may meet fidel castro. it's not on the schedule, but they said it's possible if fidel -- if castro feels well enough. and the only time we can see that, if we think, may be later on today. after he arrived today, there's no other -- anything else in his schedule. so that's the only time when we think that may happen. so watch out. later on, the pope may meet fidel sass throw and that will make one historic moment. >> absolutely be an historic moment. it feels like everything this pope does is a little extraordinary and historic. we'll be watching his trip. thank you so much to claudio lavagna in havana. up next, the importance of an intergenerational movement. later, batman confronts police brutality. ♪ that's a big bull. i think that's old cyrus. 1800 pounds of do whatever the heck i want. ♪

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this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. you might have noticed we're in d.c. that's because this weekend,

washington, d.c. is hosting the 45th annual legislative conference of the congressional black caucus foundation. much more than just a conference, the annual cbc weekend, as it is known, is a substantive convening of elected officials, journalists and academics from across the country. the call to respond to the most pressing issues facing black communities and to offer analyses and solutions. every high-ranking official interested in having his or her voice heard among black americans is sure to make an appearance. yesterday, loretta lynch spoke to a crowded room about criminal justice reform and voting rights. this morning, vice president joed by season attebiden is attending the prayer breakfast. hillary clinton scheduled to be in attendance, right at the table of congressman rangel and conyers. why it's worth noting the recurring theme of this weekend centered on a group of activists who had not yet even been born

when the cbc foundation held its first gather. because this year the dominating idea of the conference is quite simply black lives matter. still with me, representative barbara lee and the leadership conference's wade henderson. joining us is efoma ekai, attorney and co-creator of black and brown people vote and dee watki watkins, columnist and english professor, awe are though of "living and dying while black in america." thank you, guys, for being here. talk to me a little bit about how you think black lives matter is starting to transform the political landscape, like the black political agenda. >> first of all, i'm glad i'm here with what i would consider intergenerational allies. that's one thing i think is great about this movement. it's a continuation of activism that has been going on within our community literally since slavery. we've always had individuals

that have said we have to step outside of the status quo to create change. as frederick douglas conceded, power is nothing without a struggle. this generation defining for themselves how we deal with that struggle and what we're also seeing as a response from elected officials of all races and colors, especially black leaders who are saying the time is now to not only listen but let young people lead. how we change and how we define that struggle. >> i'm been fascinating by that. congresswom congresswoman, i've been impressed at the cbc, over the course of this weekend, really taking up black lives matter not in a, oh, aren't they cute kind of way, but, like, actively engaging, and at a time when the discourse on the right has shifted to black lives matter, we shouldn't be taken seriously. >> black lives matter is a movement that we all must listen to and connect with. once again, i'm proud of my

district, where we have so many young leaders in the black lives movement. secondly, the black lives movement has evolved into a really political movement. this challenging candidates on public policy issues which have to do with institutional and systemic biases and raisism. it's so important that young people continue this movement. those of us in congress listen to them because our movement and the wind beneath our wings and the push of course has to be from a democratic movement from the outside. that's how democracy works. >> there are some members of cbc that i am just here for. i so appreciate that. i moderated a panel at the request of representative lewis who put together a panel that had activists along with black lives matter and justice league activists. i saw him lean in and engage those young people and say you remind me of what we were doing. but no need to act like

everybody feels that way. i just want to show "the washington post." there was a piece titled, i was a civil rights activist in the 1960s. but it's hard to get behind black lives matter. written by barbara reynolds. where she kind of goes through and does the full respectability politics saying you can't tell whether or not there are mob actors or the protesters. just, wait. >> look, i love reynolds but i think that analysis is something i'd have to push back on. when you meet these young activists, like those we have here. what you find is they recognize the value of moving forward politically, taking a social movement, and now turning it into a political movement. so by emfa itphasizing the impoe of making change, yes in the broad sense of raising their voices, but in the specific sense of going to the ballot, generating new voters and helping to engage in the

political process, i think they can't help but make change. that's why ta-nehisi report, the really baker report, i hope will be a rallying cry. it points out systemic inequality, unconscious bias, collude to create a system that creates a virtual caste of those at the bottom of the economic and political ladder. most of those also caught up in the mass incarceration movement can't fend for themselves. when you talked about bipartisanship, yes, i hope there's bipartisanship on criminal justice legislation, but bipartisanship is in the eye of the beholder, unless you're talking about casting votes. and it is unclear that the leadership in both the republican leadership and the house and senate will permit it. and one last point, unless they permit a voighti a voting right to come to the floor and the house and the senate, all of this becomes hot air with nothing focused on making

change. >> you went straight to voting. i'm not sure that's where black lives matter is. it's not really clear to me. it's a catholic, little "c," movement, full of lots of things. where are you guys on voting? >> the key is it's not one thing. it's many things. my hometown of east baltimore, i've never, ever had direct contact with activists. people engaged in the political process. but since movements like black lives matter and many others have emerged, you have all these brand-new activists. there are guys who are taking on coaching. some guys who are helping out people with financial literally. some people like me who focus on writing and journalism. we're all becoming activists in our own right. if you push back on black lives matter, you're kind of pushing bacon the progression of black people in america on generation. all these different types of activatism to take place if we want to see real change. >> there's another moment that

happened, i'm interested whether you see this as a good thing or a coopting thing. valerie jarrett met with a couple activists at the white house. but not only did she meet with them, she then was actively tweeting with them. so this is deray and of course shorty duwoop. they're tweeting saying campaign zero and other topics, it was a candid conversation that covered much ground, and then it got fascinating. where jarrett writes back, looking forward to continuing our dialogue. shorty writes back, i'm looking forward to talking about using social media in new ways. and then valerie jarrett writes back, me, too, you are the experts. there is a part of me that's like, what just happened this is amazing. here's a senior white house adviser tweeting it up with shorty duwoop. i also wonder, did it co-op?

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for 76 years, batman has guarded gotham, waging his crusade against the criminal underworld. his enemies known as some of the most notorious rogues are entrenched in our imagination, the joker, cat woman. in batman 44, the dark knight confronts something more sinister. this latest issue of the batman series tackles the intersections of police brutalipr brutality, d gentrification. in the latest example of art imitating life, this story begins with batman investigating the death of a black teenager. 15-year-old peter, who was fatally shot in the stomach by a white gotham police veteran. the first image is of a teen wearing a hoody left for dead in the street.

the flashback issue, written by scott snider and brian asaralo with art by jacques, the pen name, also confronts the limitations of batman himself, a victim of childhood violence who guards his city from the vantage of race and class privilege. writes, comics critics are hard pressed to remember batman ever addressing institutional racism as bluntly as this. white police corruption has long been a feature of gotham. and comics critics emma called the issue the most powerful batman story in at least a generation. look at ya'll influencing the comics. go ahead and do that. let me let you weigh in. >> first, just to note how art is taking on being on a lot more of -- you know, prevalence in social activism, first, that's

always been the case. when we think about even the very great documentary that was done on nina simone when you think about, you know, different ways artists have always tried to use their craft to highlight the times. i think what we're seeing is a shift in how mainstream art is also trying to recognize or at least make a -- just last week, there were artists implementing some of the black lives matter themes, as well as evoking some of the names of individuals that have been passed due to violence, within their art. i want to shift to what we're talking about intergenerationally. how -- i'm sitting here next to -- i'm literally feeling the panther vibes -- >> are there actual panther vibes? >> i think it's a thing. there's a great documentary out that's highlighting the black panthers movement. and it's really important because a lot of times right now as young people we're told who our heroes should be, who we

should follow, what is the script and the blueprint we should adhere to. and in a lot of ways it minimizes not only the violence that was really at that time but minimizes when we talk about political education the variety of tactics and strategies that actually are on the table. doesn't mean we have to use all them but there is something. there are different types of resistan resistance. what a lot of people are afraid of is this movement is in a position to actually engage in a conversation of what are the different tactics. which ones are actually going to liberate us. why don't we, you know -- why can't we feel comfortable bearing arms to protect ourselves, right, and there's a reason for that, but they're at least open to the discussion of that. sitting next to -- >> well, you know, black lives movement, black lives matter movement is so important. it's an important moment in history for us to support it.

i want to go back to oakland california, black panthers party, late '60s, '60s. on public assistance, trying to raise two kids, single mom. i met bobby seal. during that time i met the great congressman rondellings who i worked for for 11 years. the black panther family had never been involved in voter registration, nor political activity. we worked with the black panther community. they registered people to vote. ended up supporting shirley chisolm who ran for president during that period in the early '70s. we took 10% of vote in allah meet da county. we changed the face of politics in oakland california which led to the first african-american mayor and some real political and systemic changes. so right on to the black lives

matter. you guys know what you're doing and continue to stay strong. >> this goes to the point that you need multiple strategies. not only there's a menu of strategies but you'll be choosing from various strategies. >> art is the absence of fear. as an artist, it's my job. i take on the police departments everywhere. where this article for the guardian, whoever i write for, because it's my job to call them on the stuff they do. i'm a servant to the community and i work to the community. i'm out here trying to, you know, play respectability politics and make friends on both sides, that's not right, that's not art. that's not art in its truest form. again, it plays into this whole idea of what an activist is. you have activists who are artists. and television shows like this. it's art. it's power. it's spreading ideas in a positive way. >> one of the founders of black lives matter says the thing that's important in this moment is that our movement doesn't

become an intellectual exercise but it's something that actually happens in practice. yet she also isn't pushing back -- she's not anti-intellectual. i'm wondering about that connection between the ideas and the practice. >> harry belafonte, okay, is deeply involve in the black lives matter movement. always has been. those of us of our generation who are not directly involved should not presume to lecture to those who are how they have to respond to the challenges that they face. but the one element that connects all of us is the recognition that if you don't vote, you don't count. voting really is the language of democracy. if you are translating political activity into systemic change, that's got to be a part of the arsenal. it's not the only thing. and i think dee and -- have both talked about the importance of organizing where you are. if you look at ferguson today in contrast to ferguson when mike brown was killed, one thing that has made a difference is the

election. recognizing that the commission of ferguson that just issued a very powerful report that's worth noting comes up against this reality. you have a democratic governor who may want change. you have a republican legislature that may or may not support that change. and issues like expanding medicate. for the poorest of the poor in those communities can't be drae addressed unless -- >> come all the way back to our attorney general making that extraordinary statement. because you can't call on people to vote if they can't vote. as our attorney general said, let them vote. thank you to congresswoman barbara lee and to ifoma, to wade henderson and d. watkins. up next, real-life wonder women saving lives. our foot soldiers of the week. y? ♪ ♪

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. our foot soldiers this morning are two groups of women making a difference in their communities in very different ways. in chicago after a summer with more than 1,600 shootings and 320 homicides, one woman decided enough was enough when a double shooting in july left one dead and five injured in the neighborhood where she grew up. tamara manson's idea was not to call the police but moms with lawn chairs and grils and hot dogs and form a stakeout on the same corner where the shootings took place. tamara form ed the group called mask or mothers against senseless killings, and throughout the summer, the moms have watched 75 and stewart and 75th and englewood in an effort to deter crime every single day, and all summer long.

and in an interview with the producers she said, i have to save our kids and in the process i have to save all of their friends' lives, too. and so they made difference, and they brought food and baby diapers and offered kickboxing and community center without walls. while one man lost his life on the mom's turf, the community said that the group's work was substantial and made their neighborhood safer and though their physical presence is ended labor day, and they are deploying volunteers where necessary, and tamara said that consistency is the key, and we have to be there and this is a problem to take all of us to fix. in addition to online monitoring, tamara and the group are working on legislation urging the schools to teach the kids in the community gun is safety, anger management and conflict resolution.

now this story reminded us of another big story out of south africa, a group of mostly women anti-poachers have been awarded the champions of the earth award by the united nations group. and they are a group that patrol an area around a nature reserve area unarmed to protect the legendary wildlife in their area especially the rhinos some nearing extinction and they have arrested five poachers and shutdown five poaching camps, and reduced poaching by 75%. in addition to stopping the poaching, they are educating the people in their area about the importance of ple serving nature. and usually protecting wildlife in this area is handled by the men, but these ma'am bas are impressive and 26-year-old ma'am ba leuke told the "huffington

post" that it is important for the rhinos to live, and the next generation has to know the rhinos in the next generation to know them in life must protect them now. and so these people are miles apart, but they teach us the power of organized women together will create the presence of change that they see as a need in their community, and for this, tamara and the mothers against senseless killing and the ma'mbas, mamas against poachers are our foot soldiers. and tomorrow, we will take a look at the tv series, and right now it is a preview with alex

wi witt. >> well, you are looking comfortable there in d.c., so get back up here to new york. and coming up bernie sanders and donald trump why they have similarities. and why recycling is a losing proposition, and could america give up? and revenge of the nerds, and new trouble for the hosts of "the view" after controversial jokes backfire. don't go anywhere. we will be right back. i knew it! (beep) find the closest party store... introducing app-connect. (google voice) here are your directions. michael: i'm gonna throw my own party. the things you love on your phone, available on 11 volkswagen models. want bladder leak underwear that try always discreet underwear and move, groove, wiggle, giggle, swerve, curve. lift, shift, ride, glide, hit your stride. only always discreet underwear has soft dual leak guard barriers to help stop leaks where they happen most and a discreet fit that hugs your curves,

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and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. firing back, donald trump takes to twitter to answer the critics stins kcontroversial ton hall. mystery remains and the police say that the suspect in system of the arizona highway shootings, but are there others still on the loose? it is unprecedent and overwhelming and frankly scary. massive security for the pope's security to the u.s. we go inside of the numbers. in tech trends