but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. you are about to enter the criminal mind scape of joseph paul franklin. >> did you feel like you were actually hunting human beings? >> well, i was. you wouldn't call that hunting them? or shooting them? >> on a mission to start a race war in america, franklin ruthsly murders 20 people. >> we're asking him to open up and talk about who he is. his crimes and why he did what he did. [ gunfire ] >> only thing we can tell you at this time that we're positive of, there have been two people shot here at this location.

>> larry flynt, the publisher of "hustler" magazine, he and his lawyer were walking down the sidewalk when somebody on the street opened fire. >> making it nearly impossible to catch. >> we know they were shot by a sniper. the rifle say high-powered rifle with a scope on. >> remember the two teenage boys in abby that you shot. you could see they were young. >> when i go out to kill rattlesnakes i don't make any difference in big rattlesnakes or little rattlesnakes. so i know that little rattle snakes will grow up to big ones that will bite me. so i look at blacks the same way. >> that's the way i'm planning it. >> now, the federal fbi profiler enters death row and steps into the criminal mind scape. ♪

♪ >> these interviews for me are fascinate i fascinating. they are absolutely the most intriguing experience that i've had in the fbi. >> mary ellen o'toole spent her career at the fbi, including 15 years in the bureau's famed profiling. >> i worked specifically on profiling serial murder cases and assisting law enforcement all over the world on how to understand these offenders and how to make sense out of their crimes. i think joseph paul franklin will be very interesting to talk to, because if you scrape away the racism, he is still a cold-blooded predatory individual who was driving around the country shooting and killing people. and so to say that that's the reason that he killed is very difficult for me to accept. interviews like this are

extremely helpful. will they identify all the answers? no. but they will give insights into why certain behavior at the crime scene, why not certain behavior, what are we looking for? what were they like 20 years ago? what was their family like? how are they deciding on their victims? why do they kill some victims and some they didn't? he does not have to talk to me. he does not have to open up to me. he can walk out at anytime. by way of background, i'm a retired fbi agent. >> you learn a lot. >> the last 15 years i spent back in the fbi's profiling unit. >> yeah. >> we're located at the fbi academy. and most recently, my area of expertise was in the serial killer unit. >> i don't claim to be a serial killer, though. >> okay. and i want to talk to you about that.

>> i'm kind of set in my category. >> can you tell me what your idea of a serial killer is? >> well, i've read in the news -- the definition in the newspaper, you know? >> sure. >> in the sense that somebody who commits various killings with cooling off periods in between. >> tell me why you don't fit into that definition of a serial killer. let's say, ted bundy, who was out when you were out. >> i don't feel like i have anything in common. just a completely type of person. you know, these serial killers, they were just into one thing, strangling women and stuff like that. see, they've been trying to associate me with the scumbags like ted bundy who would kill innocent women, you know. and take everything political away from our case. over and over again, you'd hear on the newscast, serial killer this, serial killer that. to try to incite hatred against people like me. i was motivated by the race.

>> joseph say seis a serial kiln he's different from other serial killers just like they're different from him. there is no one profile of a serial killer. so you have case where is you were a sniper and then we have where you were not a sniper, so you really have both. >> yeah. in 1977, joseph paul franklin. he claims to have found his first victims somewhat is spontaneously in madison, wisconsin. >> he was in the parking lot of a shopping center. he had his .357 magnum tucked alongside of him. >> that first case in madison, wisconsin was kind of an unplanned thing. >> what put you in the parking lot that day of the shooting?

>> well, i was driving around and i saw a couple of young girls stopped at a bus stop. i'd pull over and pick them up. i'd often do that, i'd pull over and see a couple of broads waiting at the bus stop, i'd give them a ride. a tall black man, about 6'2" was sitting in the car with a white car. i beeped at him because he was traveling too slow. he went 5 miles an hour to aggravate me. i sat on the horn. he stopped his car in front of me, got out of the car and began walking toward me. he had this scowl on my face. without even thinking i reached over with my right hand and whipped out my .357 magnum with the six-inch barrel, when he saw the gun, the scowl turned into a surprise, you know. and then -- he just closed his eye like that and keeled over. >> that was a very risky thing

for you to do. >> yes. >> here you are in a shopping center and daylight. >> daylight. >> a whole bunch of people. why did you shoot the woman in the car? >> well, i was against interracial couples. i thought i might as well shoot her because i'd would be caught for this. there were a whole bunch of lights out in front of this mall, you know, every single one of them turned green for me. i got in the interstate and took off. and got out of madison, wisconsin. >> it's pretty amazing that's the first time you committed murder. that's a pretty cold-blooded thing to do to a complete stranger. >> yeah, yeah. >> joseph identifies a first murder which is a double murder at point blank range. joseph has pretty good recall of that incident. broad daylight, in a parking lot of a shopping center. my question is that in fact the

first incident or is that the first one that he wants to talk about. what were you feeling at the time you pulled that trigger? >> fear, you know. i feared if i get in a fight with that guy, i'll be arrested for all this bank money i got in the trunk. i just hit the bank in columbus a few days earlier, you know. >> he had a very difficult time describing his own internal feelings. he could say what he was thinking, but he could not articulate or describe how he was feeling. >> i don't know, i guess it's just like -- kind of like, know, you see this stuff going on on tv a lot, you know. and it seems to desensitize you. maybe that was it. >> i did not do an official assessment of joseph, as to whether or not he was a psychopath. but it's my opinion that he does show traits of psychopathy.

it does seem to be present in most serial killers. it's difficult for people who do have traits of psychopathy to identify, because they don't feel the same way that regular people feel. coming up -- >> did you feel that you were actually hunting human beings? >> well, i was. you know, the way people sit there and wait for wild game, i guess. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable. who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... ...in this big, bold, beautiful world. looki had the whitest smile. now i'm going to show up to the reunion with this whole situation. oh please. do what i'm doing. use crest whitestrips!

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before launching his career as a serial killer, joseph paul franklin was a deeply troubled young man, searching for identify and belonging, first among evangelical christians and then with right wing extremists. >> during the early 1970ss, you kind of see a metamorphosis. he begins to associate with the

nazi party. he begins to associate with the ku klux klan and then you see trials and errors of his behavior. >> you became a member of the american nazi party. >> that was 1973. >> you weren't a member very long. >> just a year for that one, yeah. i didn't stick with anything -- all of them are fbi informants people just trying to get information from you. >> how did these groups think about you? you weren't there for a very long time. were they too conservative for you? >> they weren't doing anything. most of them were talking. that's what the average klans were and nazi. they were all talk and that was it. >> what were you? >> i was into action. i was into doing something. i didn't know specifically. >> so you became a bit of a loaner?

>> yeah, got to be. >> i thought when he gave that explanation, he was more or less legitimatizing why he left those organizations. even though he touched on it, part of the reason he left is because they weren't extreme enough for him then you began to see him focus a little more and more on what he ends up being t he was arrested which is a sniper. >> st. louis, 1977. two months after franklin's first murder in wisconsin, a group of people chat in the p k parking lot of a synagogue. they are about to become the targets of joseph paul franklin's first sniper shooting. [ gunfire ] >> it was a total of five shots. one shot struck a man in the chest, which killed him. police were arrived on the scene didn't know where it was coming from.

>> only thing we can tell it you at this time that we're positive of, we have the weapon, the west post, and five spent cartridges up at that telephone pole. it appears to be someone planning to come here and do just this. >> this was not an impulsive act whatsoever. this was an act that required planning. lots of patience. he chose this location. it had all the features that he was looking for, or that he needed to set up his rifle to give him an escape route and to be able to sit is there two hours laying in wait for his perfect victim. the victim was almost the last thing he decides to do before he commits the homicide. >> for his first sniper killing, franklin bolding leaved the murder weapon behind. having removed both his fingerprints and the serial number from the rifle.

though st. louis police eventually traced the gun back to texas, it would never lead them to franklin. >> being a sniper is a very unusual type of serial killer. you choose the place that you're going to shoot. you're kind of off, so it minimizes any contact whatsoever with the people you're going to shoot. i'm wondering what is it like when you're laying there, getting ready to have a person walk in front of your sights? >> the way people sit there and wait for wild game, i guess. i guess it's the same. hunters, like a tree stand or something, you know, a similar situation, i guess. sit there and wait until the target appears to shoot. stake out an area, find a good place to have, bushes or a vacant yard, as long as it was dark. i knew that i could see them but they couldn't see me. you go over every little step you take, so when you do get on

the adrenaline, that you follow a plan and worried about getting so scared you can't move. >> did you feel like you were actually hunting human beings? >> well i was. >> you wouldn't call them hunting them? >> i do. >> and shooting them. a lot of people in the military do the same thing all the time. some of the here rose of this country were the same way. they killed enemy soldiers so they're looked down, despised by society whereas people like me are. some people are born from -- you know what i'm saying, there's a lot of people in the bible that fit into the bible, prophets of god. look at samson. >> he's applying how you can judge me for doing the same thing that people in the bible have done and heros in iraq have had to do. i had to do this, it may sound bad, but it's a good thing that i had to do it.

so don't judge me on the basis of my actions because i'm not that different from people in the bible. i'm not that different from heroes in vietnam and iraq war. coming up -- >> blacks all over the country would be afraid to walk down the street. i'm going to be terrorizing the entire united states. >> what a sense of power. >> uh-huh. some sleep. ♪ if you want beautiful results, you know where to go. angie's list. everyone can shop for services from highly rated companies, even without a membership. but as a member, you can save more. and you get exclusive access to ratings and reviews. angie's list is there... for all your projects - big and small. pretty! come see what the new angie's list can do for you. what's up mikey?ringing) (beep) play awe♪ome party song. hey buddy i heard you're having a party. what? if i was having a party, i'd invite you. would you? yeah. (phone ringing) oh! i got another call.

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after his st. louis sniper killing, joseph paul franklin hits the interstates looking for new opportunities to carry out his racist craft. from 1977 to 1979, he commits similar shootings in virginia, tennessee and oklahoma. >> we began to see this mission-oriented serial killer. he's killing a lot. he's driving around a lot. he seems to have perfected the meth of his killing. >> in addition to blacks and jews, franklin sets his sights on an infamous publisher who

dared to print pictures. >> larry flynt and his lawyer were walking down the street when someone fired at them. both in critical condition. >> neither the police recognize that one person is behind this shooting, those in st. louis and those and other cities. >> those are difficult crimes to link. there's such a limited amount of evidence at to crime scene, there's little interaction. so the detective has very little to go on. >> by 1980, franklin finds a strategy he thinks will demand law enforcement's full attention. >> so what did you decide to do in 1980? >> well, just to keep doing a whole lot more so they could not ignore it, you know. the law enforcement officers

knew about it, but they wouldn't tell the media it's a national thing. >> that had to be frustrating. >> yeah, it was frustrating but it made me do even more, you know, that's why i wanted to shoot jesse jackson the most. in chicago, went to bush headquarters up there. evidently i might have been a little too honest. i looked and saw a car behind me. and i said, it looks like that dude is following me in that car. unmarked police car. i'm going to take the next right, if he takes a right too. then he's following. i took the next right. sure enough, he took a right, too. kept ongoing. i thought someone is tailing me here. i better get out of the tail. >> the paranoia really in a way is very justified because he knows that he has shot and killed people all over the united states. it's that personality trait of his that actually lent to his identify and ultimately to his

arrest. >> after franklin's plan to shoot jesse jackson fail, he stumbles upon another high profile type, civil rights leader vernon jordan. >> i was in chicago at that time, headed towards indiana. i stopped at ft. wayne that night. and just happened to hear on the news that vernon jordan was speaking at the it marriott hotel at such and such time. i thought, if he's speaking at the motel, he's probably staying at the motel. i called the motel up for a motel room. i said, could you tell me what room vernon jordan is, you know. she said, sir, it's against policy, we weren't supposed to do that. somehow i was able to convince her to give me the room number. that's all it took. i stayed by the interstate. >> vernon jordan is said to be in very serious but at least stable condition in a ft. wayne, indiana hospital this morning while local and federal officials are trying to find out who shot him and why.

>> he talks about going after high-profile targets like mr. jordan and larry flynt, actually stalking them and getting up close to where they were staying at the time. which really is very stupid. because when you go after people who are famous, you're going to unleash law enforcement from all over the country. was there something that triggered it that happened to you? or did you decide that i need to kill somebody? >> i was actually trying to get a race horse started. that was my goal. to get the blacks stirred up. then would start killing blacks and the blacks would get angry and retaliate until a full-scale race war was going on. >> joseph wants blacks and jews to fear anywhere they went, they could be gunned down. it's such a grand scheme and it's unrealistic. and having unrealistic goals is

consistent with people who orchestrate psychopathy. that's one of the characteristics. that never would have happened. yet, he believed he was able to accomplish that. >> i guess if i would have accomplished that, they would have had to give me national coverage. they'll be afraid to wrong down the street. i'd be terrorizing the you're united states. just one man. >> what a sense of power. >> yeah, they didn't want to freak out blacks all over the country that's why they didn't give me national publicity. >> wow, that must have made you feel pretty important. >> it wasn't important. it was the ax i was trying to grind, getting the race wars started. >> but you weren't successful. no, i got caught three years later. >> i think underpinning a lot of his criminal behavior was this need for attention. this need to get credit for

these crimes. it's what we call need-driven behavior. and his need-driven behavior was law enforcement recognizing that one person, and one person alone was capable of creating chaos and fear in the united states. coming up -- >> remember the two teenage boys in cincinnati you that shot? >> uh-huh. >> you could see that they were young. >> yeah, i was trying to ratchet up the violence.

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hi, richard lui. pope francis is due to arrive in cuba in just a few hours on the first of a ten-day trip that includes the united states. visit will include capitol hill and united nations. clerk kim davis is possibly accused of violating an order not to interfere with marriage

licenses. it comes from a clerk working under davis. now back to "caught on camera." in 1977, serial sniper joseph paul franklin begins wandering the current shooting people he calls enemies of the white race. his victims are chosen at random, except for two, civil rights leader vernon jordan and "hustler" publisher larry flynt were targeted for their high profile work. franklin escalates his violence. >> a serial sniper is a tough, tough offender to understand. he decides who will be in his sights. he realizes that that person's life rests in his hands. so, the ultimate thrill and sense of power and control over

another human being, has to be considered as part of the motivation of being a serial sniper. >> it appears that franklin also decides to expand his target list to include children. on june 8th, 1980, the sniper unleashes his pain in cincinnati, ohio. >> you have two teenage boys who are shot and killed in cincinnati. no one sees anything. no one identifies anybody that was responsible. >> the victims daunte evans brown and darryl lane, cousins and best friends were 13 and 14 years old. >> brother dante, peaceful rest. the father, son and holy spirit come on you and remain with you forever, amen. >> up until that point, we had not seen really young victims,

13 and 14 years of age who now were targeted by the serial sniper. and it really suggests that joseph was changing his m.o. he was increasing the number of crimes. and he wasn't even changing his victimology to include these two very sympathetic victims. if we could go back to the choice of -- remember, the two teenage boys in cincinnati? >> the what? >> the two teenage boys in cincinnati. >> uh-huh. >> that you shot? >> uh-huh. >> they were 13 and 14. and this was during that period of time that you described that you were going to do things differently. >> yeah, i was trying to ratchet up the violence. is that why you picked two young teenage boy. because you had a scope on your weapon at that time you could see that -- >> a scope on the rifle, yep. >> you could see that they were young. >> uh-huh. >> there was only one time

during the interview when his body language became defensive and that is when we started to talk about the homicide in cincinnati involving two young african boys, ages 13 and 14. >> i couldn't really tell exactly how old they were. i figured they were young. maybe just 18 or 19 years old. you know, sitting there in the dark. you know, just seeing just the silhouette, their shadows, you know. it's kind of hard to tell how old somebody was. i had no idea they were that young. >> i knew from reviewing the case and from talking to other people that not only could he have seen from the scope, but he wasn't all that far away from those two young victims. when you normally shoot young children, the repercussions for you as the offender can be far greater especially when you're incarcerated in prison. and people think of you differently when you shoot and kill children. >> i had no conscious as far as

the blacks go, you know. when you live with a plan, you spend years around and begin thinking as race as nonhuman. the klans lead said when i go out to kill rattlesnakes i don't make any difference between big rattlesnakes and little rattlesnakes because i know the little ones will bitie me when they get there. >> they not knowing they were young victims. yet, if he shot two young boys, he knew he would get much more attention from the media and much more attention from law enforcement. coming up -- >> i was a little kid and i beat up and so traumatized and you just want to get back at everything that you saw.

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♪ in the summer of 1980, an unusual type of serial killer, a racist sniper, roams the u.s. looking for targets. in states from virginia to oklahoma, he's used high-powered rifles, shotguns and a .357 magnum to hit. in salt lake city, detectives are facing a double homicide that has all the trademarks of this serial killer. >> we had reports of several shots fired. when we arrived here, we had two victims down. we do have confirmed on two of the victims that they have expired. two young men, 18 and 19. both black and well regarded in the community, are dead.

the two white girls they were jogging with escaped. >> i responded that night. it looked like the sniper had laid in wait inside this field. and then shot these four people as they were coming across the lighted intersection. both the boys were shot even after they had quit moving. they weren't wrounds to twounds or extremelies, these were like -- in shooter talk, these were kill shots. >> i'd like to talk to you about the salt lake city shooting. august of 1980. why did you travel there? >> i'd been there before in 1975. in subrogation. >> what is that? >> i saw two dudes jogging

towards the park and two white chicks. i thought i'll wait here until they come back. i was in the dirt there, concealed in tall grass and everything, you know. >> salt lake city had been used to dealing with a number of very violent crimes. there was tremendous experience in the department. but this was a very different kind of offender. >> although franklin has killed his intended targets, the crime. >> you'd find fitire mark it's field. they were a prototype tire and only sold in a few of the states. all the states were east of the mississippi river. they had to be somewhere from back east. >> it's not long before witnesses come forward and describe seeing a dark-colored camaro parked in the field of the sniper's position. >> we found a man walking by a

week later, he actually saw the camaro, and he gave a description. >> soon, a local prostitute confirms she's done business with a man in that car. >> he didn't want a trick in the car. she made it interesting to me she saw some handguns and rifles. then he told her that he was a hit man for the ku klux klan. >> the witness is able to help police put together a composite of the suspect. >> when we knew that there had been other killings back east, and we now knew that this guy, the composites alone were pretty much convincing that we were on the right road. >> registration card from the motel also lists the camaro's license plate number and the name of its driver. while the information is phony, salt lake city police soon

discover a trail of similar aliases in motels across the region. >> from the 9th of august to august 20th, we could place him at i think, seven or eight different motels. we never found him after august 20th which was the night of our shooting. the like he just disappeared off the face of the earth. >> salt lake city police catch a break when one astute motel owner writes down the camaro's real license plate number. a month later this information pays off. >> i think 11:00 one night i got a call saying head to the airport, they found this guy. and we're flying you to, i think the little town was called old langer, kentucky. and they had arrested him at a motel on a warrant.

>> while arresting a burglar encounter a man next door. >> they check his identification and his vehicle and realize that his vehicle in the parking lot is a vehicle wanted by salt lake police department in a double homicide. >> finding two high powered rifles and a hand gun, police take him in for custody. >> law enforcement in kentucky didn't realize when they brought him into the room, really who they had. they didn't know how many homicides he had committed and how commit hd had was to not being apprehended. >> it wasn't until they got him in the station where they started talking about salt lake city and shootings. and he got worried and manufactured his escape. he took off. >> during a break in the interview, franklin escapes through an open window and disappears. one of america's deadliest serial killers is back on the

street. but now, police have his real name. on september 25th, 1980, joseph paul franklin, age 30, is now the object of a nationwide manhunt. one month later, the fbi, aware that franklin regularly sells his blood, catches him at a blood bank near tampa, florida. franklin proclaims his innocence while proudly admits his racist views. >> do you have white racist views. >> yes, definitely how do you feel about it? >> i'm against communism. >> during the years franklin confesses to numerous murders. in a sniper killingsynagogue, fs sentenced to death. >> in my opinion, that is an explanation that he thinks would give him more credibility.

but as far as what caused him to become a serial killer, i think that was an excuse. >> so how did you, joseph, evolve to the point where you could do something that seems so cold-blooded? >> you get so traumatized that you just try to pay back all the pain that you suffered. that's what happened to me from the time i was a little kid was yelled at all day long, beat up, starved, it had an effect on me when i got older. just about nerin the family had alcohol family. after spending the paycheck, my brother would be fighting and cussing at each other, he'd be beating her. and the landlord would bang on the side of the trailer. it would terrorize us.

and my mother had no money because my father would take all the money and spend it on alcohol. basically they split up in 1965, they were divorced. that left us on welfare, you know, she began abusing us even worse after he left, you know. i was the only child in the family who was always bringing animals home. one afternoon, there was a terrier dog from the neighborhood. we were all out in the yard, terry, a cute little dog, tail stuck straight up, just as friendly as could be. my mom had been sitting in the lawn chair watching us and went into the house, set a pile of water on the stove and began bowling it. she bought the water up on a full boil and put it up on the dog's back, and he went screaming and running away real fast, you know. >> she had a lot of cruel behavior. >> oh, man, she was a satist.

>> how old were you? >> about 12, or 11. >> does that act as a cause and effect for him later to go on and become a serial killer? we have no reason at this point to say there is a cause and effect just for childhood abuse. because we know there are unfortunately many people who are raised in very abusive situations, and they don't go on to become serial killers. so i think we have to incorporate that environment that he described, but we would be wrong to say that he was a serial killer strictly and solely because he was raised in an abusive environment. coming up -- >> do you think you were born to kill? >> yeah, i guess you could say that. i was under the influence of the devil. >> what do you think is going to happen to you? ♪ (phone ringing)

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joseph paul franklin has been on missouri's death row for more than a decade. extreme hatred and what appears to be an utter lack of conscience, drove him to kill some 20 people and injure many others. >> how do i feel about someone like joseph? do i pity him? what are my feelings towards him? i feel it's important that we understand how he develops to be able to go back and say, was it possible early on to prevent this? was it possible to do something that would have changed the course of history? >> your first thoughts of killing somebody, how old do you think you were? >> 17 years old, i think. when i watch all of these westerns on tv, i guess i would see people and want them to get shot. >> here he was, watching tvs,

watching westerns, lots of shoot-outs, he particularly enjoyed when the bad guy was successful. in the late '50s and during the '60s, the era of vietnam. john kennedy was assassinated by a sniper. charles whitman was a particularly successful sniper university of texas in 1966. there was a period of time of a lot of violence. a lot of violence that didn't make any sense, so, you have to wonder about the impact about some of the events of that period and what role they played in him, and in his decision to ultimately become a serial sniper. was there a point in time where something could have been done to put you on a different course? was there some kind of intervention that could have happened? >> i asked people to teach me, encourage me to go to school, get an education, my life would have turned out a whole lot differently, you know. >> do you think you still would have become a serial sniper?

>> i don't think i would. i wanted to have the hatred. everybody does, when he get hurt, they want to pass that on. i kept getting angry. >> do you think you were born to kill? >> i guess you could say that. some people are born with a streak that they can do that. whereas other people if the same thing happened they wouldn't do that. >> joseph referred to himself in previous interviews as a natural born killer. and i asked him about that, and he agreed that's a possibility for him. again, almost a recognition in spite of the environment that he described as abusive, he still was a natural born killer. and the research up to this point seems to suggest that seems to be some part of it that is hard-wired. in other words, genetic link to this personality disorder. do you think there was a part of you that at that time enjoyed the killing?

>> i won't say enjoyed it but there was nobody else doing it, i figure i'd had to do it. >> how did you feel once you figured the shooting? >> i was just glad to get away. >> was it sexually arousing? >> not at all, no. >> have you had violent sexual fantasies? >> what do you mean by violent sexual fantasies? >> violence and sex involved if your fantasies? >> no, that would be a vsf, right? only other thing i got arousd was women. i was out chasing skirts trying to get -- and -- >> for some people, killing is very sexual. >> i know, there's some sick puppies out there, i don't fall in that category. >> most frequently seen serial

killers in my unit are those serial killers who are motivated for sexual purposes. in other words, they're six really gratified in some way of murdering a victim. joseph does fit the definition of a serial killer. his motivation was different. he talked about his motivation being nonsexual which is obviously a very touchy area to get into with an individual. is he telling the truth? there's no way to know that. we're depending on him to tell us that that. if it is true, it may be too embarrassing for him to admit. or they may not have been sexually motivated. >> and as we close, let me ask you this, how do you feel about the people that you killed? >> i feel sorry for them, i regret having done that, you know. >> that does regret feel like to joseph paul franklin? >> in other words, i just wished i had not done it, you know, i feel sorry for the people, you

know. it was really wrong for me to do that. >> i think like most serial killers, joseph knows right from wrong. he talked about regret. but whether or not that was his sincere remorseful regret, i can only tell you what my feeling was based on my experience with these types of offenders. and i did not walk away with the sense that he had those feelings of remorse and guilt. >> i was under the influence of the devil, to be quite honest. i mean that sounds, you know, i'm not trying to say the devil made me to it. but the devil does put thought in people's minds, that is a fact. at the time that martin luther king and robert kennedy were both assassinated the same year, with the article, to have two enemies in the white race die. that's the kind of stuff i was feeding on for years and years. that's when i began to think

that blacks were nothing but subhumans and rapes and raping white women and killing. blacks don't do that stuff, you know. >> you mentioned heaven and hell -- >> the bible mentions those and so does the koran. >> what do you think is going to happen to you? >> i'm trusting god as my savior. >> i think joseph lives in the here now. i think he lives in the present moment. i think he's obviously cognizant and aware that he has the death penalty hanging over his head. but there's also a part of him that something will happen. many serial killers who are psychopaths are very optimistic in therms of their future. >> thank you very much. >> joseph was hardly disappointment. joseph is smart, he's articulate. and listening to him talk about what he wanted to do. what his hope was, made him even

more frightening of an individual than we realized 30 some years ago. i think that he was absolutely a very, very dangerous serial killer. set apart from many of the other ones that we saw then and that we see today. one of the reasons for this kind of interview is not just to develop a better understanding of these kinds of offenders, but also to help had investigators the next time this type of crime occurs. joseph paul franklin will not be our last serial sniper. and we know that because we had.beltway snipers right after 9/11. a lot of the information that joseph talked about is information that we can take in to not only prepare the investigation, but to also help prepare for the interview with the next serial sniper.

♪ you are about to enter the criminal mindscape of ron luff. a man who tried to usher in the second coming of christ by systematically killing a family of five. >> within a few days both of us had prosecuted understood that someone could die. >> after joining a small group, luff become captivated. >> he came in and mentioned, well, he says i