donald trump, of course, is running for president but i've got to say sure, donald trump s seems racist, what else? is it just me or does bernie sanders always look like his flight is delayed? >> i think it would be appropriate at this moment to quote our political satire. what a great honor it must be for you to honor me tonight.

oh wait. no, no, no i'm so sorry. donald trump said that. i'm sorry. >> welcome to morning joe. happy monday everybody. the emmys were quiet something last night. >> were they? >> cleaning up. finally winning. >> jn ham finally won. >> he finally won. he crawled on stage. quiet a weekend. who tied the knot this weekend? if you went to that wedding it was like to emmys. >> congratulations to the young couple. and the person who stole the show, alex corsin. do you have video of you dancing? >> it's on my instagram. >> we'll all dance live. >> with us on set we have manager of bloomberg politics john highland and political analyst and professor at the

school of public policy, harold ford jr. and former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve. >> i say it better. with like a purr in my voice. >> a lot of people trying to figure out how the debates were going to factor in the poles and we found out some of the national poles which aren't as relevant, they talk about big trim lines. >> and i'm feeling like this world makes sense. what we predicted right after the debate comes to capacity. conducted by survey monkey shows donald trump continues to lead the crowded field. 29% of voters say they would cast their vote for trump. 14% behind ben carson while carly fiorina is coming up fast

with 12 points and jeb bush at 8%. the online pole finds fiorina performed best. trump is at second with 21% and marco rubio at 8%. meanwhile, most voters still expect the eventual nominee to be trump. the business man takes 21% to bush's 14% and 10% thousand saying carson. >> a similar pole showed similar trim lines. >> cnn shows donald trump still leads but fallen eight points while carly fiorina has rocketed past ben carson. marco rubio now in fourth place past jeb bush. >> let's stop right there. that's the best job in the last week's debate.

fiorina cleaning up and marco doing well. let's go back to these numbers. a lot of things to pick apart here. first of all, let's talk about the two previous front runners. donald trump and ben carson, trim lines down. >> trim lines down. the big question coming out of that debate was whether trump, how whether his performance some thought, his best performan performance wouldn't effect him. ben carson hasn't come down as far. trump has lost more altitude than carson who was where he was. >> you take them both together, trump still in first place and still in a good place. no doubt about it, some of the momentum slowed. let's put the pole back up. we're going to look at some of the other people here that stick out. harold ford, obviously, carly

fiorina, a massive night. >> at last 53% of the vote for the top three. top three all outsiders. none e elected to the top offic before. for rubio to move up like he has, if you're rubio, cruz, huckabee, if the three top ones hit altitude, how do you begin to take support from the top three. if you're rubio and bush and others you have to consider that. >> carly up from 3 to 15%. a massive rise. for everybody who says debates don't matter. >> they matter. >> they make a huge difference. marco rubio turned in a strong performance last time.

>> i remember thinking donald trump can keep his lead. nothing can hurt him here and she would jump over carson and i think that's happening. >> she certainly did. you look now at jeb bush. if your jeb bush's people you have to think about the whole bret hume comment. you can eat the dog food but can't make the dog eat the dog food. if you're jeb bush in third place, it's not about donald trump. >> carly obviously, had a great debate and obviously was way up in the poles. she has to deal with her history. the hp. i don't think she can redefine it away from every estimation with a failed drrks eo. >> i wouldn't say every estimation. >> i would. >> did you read the article?

>> you would. you come to the table saying that. >> i come to the table knowing something. >> a lot of people that know something say it's not as cut and dry. >> which people are those? >> i guess you're bringing up new york times articles. i've been reading wall street journal articles. >> i read a wall street journal the other day where they made a point there's a failed ceo. >> you made a very declarative statement saying that everybody says to choose a failed ceo. i don't think that's an accurate statement. >> if you say everybody, i'm sure you can find some people that will say something else. the vast preponderance of people say she was a failed ceo. since then she was not offered another ceo job or another senior job in business. she did her thing and she's going to have to play all that.

>> there's also something notable in the new cnn orc pole. the total collapse of wisconsin governor scott walker. walker who was widely considered a top tier candidate no longer regulars half a percentage point. he was at 5% before the debate in iowa. he commented on the new numbers and the rise of the outsiders. >> people are asking someone to hire people and do a job interview, i wouldn't be your person to do a job interview to build condos in new york city. i wouldn't be the person you would hire to be a neurosurgeon. if people want an outsider and someone whose taken on washington before and be successful, in the end that's what voters are going to look for. >> what's happened to his campaign? >> i think the good gets better

and the bad gets worse. he's been one of those who hit the ground running early this year with a couple of great speeches. he seems to have peaked and the downward momentum was pulling him down and every time he has an opportunity to do something to change the life of the debate, he fails to do that and there's widespread panic among supporters and done nors. one thing about fiorina, as she pointed out the day after the debate, very few people knew who she was and knew she was running before the debate. she saw it that way. many didn't know anything about her and didn't know she was in the race. she introduced herself to the country with that performance and got a big lift. in that one race she's run, her tenure at hewitt-packard.

another thing is another piece of carly fiorina. before the other night she was a blank slate. she gave a great debate performance and now others are going to try to define her. >> all i can say is in all due respect with steve's argument, you go through the articles and read through it, dig through it and what you find out that revenues to hp rose under her reign. let me finish. steve, we understand, you think she sucks. let me finish. profits did not. they flat lined. >> she was seen as a figure inside the board room. so they get rid of her. now, she made a deal with compact. it didn't bring in the revenue, it brought in the revenue but not the profits. if anybody thinks at the end of the day republican voters are

going to go into the voting booth to figure out profit margins of a compact a deal verses how much money she brought in a accompany in the middle of a dot com buzz. >> can i say two thing ss? thing one is what happened to the stock price. the stock price in hp under her watch declined. everything declined. her stock price declined twice as much as the rest of the index. the thing they got her for were illuminating tens of thousands of jobs and you're going to see those adds over and over and over again. >> and in that add up, not only did she eliminate a lot of jobs but devastating to her was what she was criticized for was forget wering her own nest at the same time. firing a lot of people and corporate jets, huge bonuses.

>> okay. that's different though. that is a good legitimate argument if you're running against her. i don't know if it works in the republican primaries. as far as the actual tenure goes, again, you get into it. the printing business by that time was a mature business. >> they had to figure out what they're doing. same thing with compact, they were trying to keep up with dell. there were a million different things going on at the same time. i can say this debate is over. republicans will not decide to vote for her. i'm just saying. i know them based on that. now, the golden parachute, firing people, that's another issue and yes, you can do devastating. >> she's the first candidate in this race to take donald trump on and come out of it ahead. she introduced herself to john's point. if you're the trump folks and

other candidates you have to say maybe there's a way to take him and she's the one that can do it. >> i never said to myself watching the debate, wow, that's one woman with 10 men. i thought that's a really good candidate and i thought about it in retrospect and it's like wow. >> carly was a great debater. >> i would argue the one thing, the major thing that reminds you is that she was really prepared. she had clearly done her homework and precisely, unlike a lot of the guys. exactly. now for the comments from republican presidential candidate ben carson that are now drawing criticism. the renowned neurosurgeon and devout christian saying that a muslim should not be elected president of the united states. >> should a president's faith

matter? should your faith matter to voters? >> i guess it depends. if it's inconsistent with the values and principals of america, then of course, it should matter. if it fits within the realm of america and consistent with the constitution, no problem. >> so do you believe that islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i do no. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that. >> carson added to his comments in an interview with the hill, quote muslims feel their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official and that's inconsistent with our principles. >> john f. kennedy pledged allegian allegiance to the pope every morning, oh, wait, no he didn't. >> carson said he would make

an -- i'm going to keep going. resent poling suggest that many but not most americans share carson's hesitancy about a muslim candidate. a pole in june said 30% of americans said they would not back a muslim candidate for president. a muslim candidate performed worse than an atheist candidate and there's a gap among political parties while 73% of democrats say they would support a muslim, 45% of republicans are open to it. >> just to step down the pole, one out of four americans said they would not support an evangelical christian. >> the candidates also reacted to whether a muslim can be president. >> to me, the american people are going to decide who

president is based on qualifications not religious believes. >> i think this shows that dr. carson is not ready to be commander in chief. he said he didn't believe somebody of the muslim faith could be loyal to the constitution. my belief is the 3,500 american muslims wearing the uniform of the united states military are loyal to their country. they're fighting and dying for their nation. >> can you imagine supporting or being comfortable if a muslim ever became president of the united states? >> i can say that you know, it's something that at some point could happen. we'll see, you know, it's something that could happen. would i be comfortable? i don't know if we have to address it right now but it could happen. >> you said you have no problem? >> some say it already happened frankly but of course, you wouldn't agree with that. >> all right.

so i don't know. >> just for the sake of dr. carson comments, he proceeds. >> the more i get to know him the less. >> article six, paragraph three in the u.s. constitution states no religious test shall be required of a public officer. >> no religious test means no. >> i think it speaks for itself. one of the reasons democrats remain excited in the face of perhaps some minor set backs of our top candidates, i think we're seeing evidence right now. dr. carson is clearly a bright man, very educated and accomplished and the same true with donald trump. to here, the two educated men, two smart men make these comments and it begs the

question what a 53 or 40% of voter rs thinking. this is not the first time they've said things that cause the question what on earth are they talking about. >> explain the game and it doesn't win in the end. it's playing the short game. >> hillary was on face the nation and looking good right now. >> hillary did a good job. you see that interview? >> it was stunning. she is asked on face the nation about -- she said the state department authorized it. dickerson didn't follow up with the question who at the state department? >> this interview was set up that certain questions were required for a certain amount of time and they could go into e-mails. it was textbook planned out.

i can see jen and everybody all over that interview. this happened with two other network interviews. i know it happens. i can tell you right now, the conversation with this show stopped because we were not controlled. it was a lovely interview. >> the thing is cbs news knows if they have any sources at the state department, cbs news knows that nobody at the state department based on all of our sources at the state department, nobody authorized it. she did it on her own. >> it was allowed because she allowed it. >> nobody allowed it. she allowed. i will not have two follow up questions on that. it was a stunning. >> maybe it will work for her. i wasn't going to say anything. it was brought up. it was a stunning interview. stunning interview and textbook on a campaign operation kpleing.

it was ridged this weekend. i guess we have to get our digs in on hillary clinton here. i thought we were going to get through a segment out without talking about her. for hillary clinton to come out and criticize anybody for spreading the rumors about barack obama when it all started. >> on 60 minutes. >> when it all started with her and her campaign passing things around in the democratic primary. listen. the republicans are wrong for doing what they're doing. it started, this started with hillary clinton and it was spread by the clinton family. >> we're just telling the truth. sorry. i really, i don't even know. harold, don't. >> mika, you can't tell me to stop when the two of you are making kmeing comments.

if there was a basis for your comments i would agree with it. >> what about 2008? >> what about it? >> barack obama may not be -- >> we should ask kyle. >> i don't recall that but if you're telling me that was the case, i don't recall. >> thank you. >> it was the case. >> thank you, john. >> didn't you go on 60 minutes and actually not say no. what was that, harold? >> i'm affirming the -- >> do you know about this? >> the cbs interview, was that rigged? >> i know nothing about that. i have no knowledge what happens between the campaign and john dickerson. >> you called that a week earlier. she wanted andrew mitchell and it was all e-mails for the first 20 minutes. she has some interviews where there were no holes barred. >> she should come on this show.

>> u.s. soldiers turning a blind eye to the abuses of young boys in afghanistan. >> this is on the front page of new york times. >> this is a sickening story. >> afghan quote allies raping little boys and a guy gets in trouble. >> americans being told to turn away. >> a u.s. soldier kicked out of the service for actually coming to the defense of a young afghan boy chained to a bed and being raped by an afghan soldier. >> this is part of their culture so we should turn away. >> i thought that's why we actually went in to try to liberate them from the taliban. i thought that's why we were fighting. >> more narrative. plus pope francis set to begin his trip to the u.s. tomorrow after wrapping up his visit to cube bah later today. >> we're going to have more. >> we have a lot to talk about

here. i have big problems with this man sitting down with castro refusing to talk to the catholic dissidents that have been beaten, tortured and jailed and shot. he's willing to meet with castro and his brother but you have dissedi dissidents jumping up trying to talk to him and pushed away. >> we're going to have more from the message to cuba. there's more to come. >> if you're castro. >> we'll be back in a moment. >> no, i won't stop. it's more than the cloud. it's security - and flexibility. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions from a trusted it partner. including cloud and hosting services - all backed by an industry leading broadband network and people committed to helping you grow your business.

you get a company that's more than just the sum of it's parts. centurylink. your link to what's next. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta and fires up free wi-fi, with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before you know what he can do? let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! book your next stay at lq.com!

let's take a look at 26 past the hour at the morning papers. front page story in this morning's new york times is documenting the process in which u.s. soldiers have been instr t instructed to ignore the sexual abuse of afghan allies etch when it happened on military basis.

the policy reports that looking the other way maintains a good relationship in a country where the boy play the widespread. >> and a captain actually got kicked out of the military for coming to the defense of quote a boy chained to his bed as a sex slave the r. >> the paper reports that the policy has come under new scrutiny because of the effect it's had on soldiers and it alienates the parents whose children are forced to endure the abuse. >> how did this happen? how far up did it go? is it just the commanders that, the people that are running the bases that are allowing this to happen that are now going to need to be brought to justice in our military system?

or does it go all the way up to the pentagon? how far up, how high up does it go in the chain of command where they know that quote allies are chaining young boys to bed as the new york times as sex slaves and actually kicking out soldiers, american soldiers coming to the defense of boys chained to beds as sex slaves. how high up does this go? the pentagon needs to answer that. the administration needs to answer that, who knows. who knew this was happening, who allowed it to continue? who said turn the other way. >> according to this article, it was happening. it was so prevalent that american soldiers could hear it. >> how high up does it go? we need to know. >> the allegations that are happening on the united states base would suggest that your

question not only deserves an answer but there could be legal implications if we're allowing this to happen on u.s. property. i can't recall the rules if it's their property or our propert s properties. these legalities recurring on a united states military base would have to invoke, those kids would have to have some protection under u.s. >> >> you know i'm against the experts. >> they don't need faces. >> i do know this. if there's a u.s. officers that knew about young boys being chained to beds and being raped as sex slaves, they need to be kicked out of the military now. i don't know in their court marshalled or spend time out of jail. we as american people need to know how high up this went in the chain of command. >> i agree.

>> and everybody needs to be brought to justice at once. >> pope francis spending his last full day in cuba before heading to the u.s. tomorrow. the pope didn't meet with cuban dissidents but yesterday met with castro. nbc's ann thompson is in havanna. >> good morning, mika. pope francis made all stops expected of the state but the imagine ig has come when he's met the people. >> past the icons of the communist take over, pope francis rolled into revolution square to celebrate sunday mass. a living symbol of inspiration for many of the cuban people. >> what's driving the enthusiasm? >> i guess hope. we have a lot of hope in him.

>> reporter: what makes you hopeful? >> it's not only what he's saying but what he's doing. >> dora says she's impressed by the pope's efforts to improve relations between cuba and the u.s. >> trying to help and lift the embargo that's been effecting the cuban economy for so many years. in 90% humidity, 300,000 listened to france encourage them to serve others. the mass was not without incident. three protesters rushed the pope mobile and one man was thrown to the ground. not clear what they were protesting. the freedom in the once atheist country has been hard won. the church is filling the holes in the safety net with proprograms like this. the approach of encounter instead of confrontation is criticized by some. lava, a cuban dissident and

human rights activist calls it wise. >> that's the way to be able to exchange abuse and get close to the people and interact and influence. influence on the people but influence on the government. >> this past visit had its political moments. meeting castro and a half private meeting with his brother. more evidence of how france's appeal seems to transcend the church. >> reporter: today pope francis travels to the cuban country side and visits a shrine that draws pilgrims from all over latin america. >> by the way, the new york times reporting those that were political dissidents that went to the pope mobile and asking for meetings and got pulled away, the guy was shouting

freedom. >> all right. coming up, his group says they'll spend whatever it takes to defeat donald trufr. we'll talk to the president for club for growth. that and a look at this morning's opinion pages when morning joe comes right back chth. so what's your news? i got a job! i'll be programming at ge. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. (friends gasp) the app where you put fruit hats on animals? i love that! guys, i'll be writing code that helps machines communicate. (interrupting) i just zazzied you. (phone vibrates) look at it! (friends giggle) i can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs... you name it. i'm going to transform the way the world works. (proudly) i programmed that hat. and i can do casaba melons. i'll be helping turbines power cities. i put a turbine on a cat. (friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition!

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that was funnier guy's take on the second gop debate. joining us from the washington post jonathan. good to have you on board. this morning the wall street journal reporting that aids to vice president joe biden have called done nors and supporters in resent days suggests he's more likely than not to enter the 2016 race. people tell the magazine those conversations have shifted toward the timing of an announce. . that comes as chuck todd told us reports otherwise the vice president's wife is fully behind another run. a spokes person for dr. biden released a statement that reads

quote, of course, dr. biden would be on board if her husband decides to run for president but they haven't made that decision yet. >> that ain't nothing. it sounds like things are moving in the direction of joe running. >> i'm only laughing because that wall street journal report is what i reported a week ago. >> because now it matters. >> wall street journal saying it's true. >> mika, that was kind. i appreciate that. you're nice. >> i'll speak to you some other day. >> the bottom line the he's still, he still has to take the measure of both his heart and his family and i think the family thing now is a greater consideration for him personally. he wants to make sure they got only say they're with him but would understand the full ramifications that happen. i don't think there's anyone around him that would be surprised in the least if he

ultimately lands on know. it's also the case for the last month he's gotten closer and closer. >> it looks that way if you look at the quotes. contributors are being told, get ready. >> yeah. i heard from a source of mine last week saying i'm hearing it's a go. i think for a lot of democrats it would be i think exciting if vice president biden got into the race. it would be his third run. it's something everyone knows he would love to be president of the united states, to an extent there's gradations on the color green. you could actually have a real

conversation about solutions to problems rather than what's happening on the other side which is a lot of stuff that i think general election, a general electorate would be turned off by. >> this will be the first time in a long time and john and steve know and perhaps joe and mika, that you had a sitting president that would have a former secretary of state and vice president competing being the two most viable candidates for the nomination. i don't remember in resent memory that happens. i would be curious to see the situation that put the white house and most senior people in as they begin to debate and have support and rally. >> they haven't really hidden that, have they. >> when they're asked and they say the wisest decision the president has made was the day he picked. >> he's also embracing -- >> it will be curious to see how they talk about it. >> what's also interesting is this past weeked you saw him and these are small points.

you saw hillary distance herself from the obama administration in syria and you had biden's people sort of suggesting if he runs it's going to be on the basis of the obama record and how improving the economy is since obama took over. they may be running for different positions. >> you think about the 2012 election, president obama told everybody in his administration go work for her, totally fine. i'm all good with it and many. >> her interview on 60 minutes. gave the republican lick nods that he was all good with her as his successor but this e-mail thing has soured a lot of people in the white house. now you can see things like david and dan fiefr, a lot of senior former officials criticizing her publicly in a way they never did two years

ago. >> the white house across the administration feeling betrayed and angry with hillary clinton. she played by her own rules and created this huge mess they would never do themselves and i think like steve said, you start reading and seeing people move in different directions.

it's going to be interesting. really interesting how it plays out if these two go after each other. >> coming up, the club for growth has spent its first million to take down donald trump. how are they doing? how much more will they have to spend? we're going to talk to the group's president next on morning joe. also ahead senator john and whether we're headed for another government shut down.

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joining us now president for club forgrowth, david. >> david. robinson said it best you apply electricity to godzilla, you only make him stronger. >> he's certainly not doing it. he's been liberal on tax increases. his trade policy comes straight out of the union play book and that's what we're doing. >> ronald reagan changed as well. the difference is and ronald reagan put it this way, the democratic party changed and he stayed the same. same values, less government, lower taxes, in this case trump changed in order to run in the republican primary.

>> what's the part of his platform here? >> it's the fact that he relies on the government to to and tell businesses how to run their businesses and he has no regard what makes for economic brought. i'm going to tax people that make money and put a tariff on everything you buy from mexico and china. >> you know, david, you know, everybody that supported me at the very beginning when nobody knew who i was eventually got into club for growth. i'm wondering if guys like you and me learn to step with our own republican base. >> the republican party is so frustrated with the leadership in washington they said we would go and stop obama, we would change things and they don't seem to be doing any of that. you remember what it was like when you were there. it's hard to stand up to the

president of the other party. if you got good leadership, you can get it done. >> has john boehner failed in that? >> i think he has. now they're back to the harry reid budget. >> you and i would be raising a lot of noise, i can tell you that, as we did. >> when we went to see mr. trump, he said basically, then for the first time subsequently you showed up in his office a couple weeks earlier, had a conversation and wrote him a letter which he produced were you asked for a million dollar donation and his argument was the reason you guys are attacking him now he sperned your attempts to get him to write a big check to the clubs of growth. >> first of all, it makes sense if he's a conservative he should

be giving money to club for growth. >> let me give you something, we've criticized his trade and tax policy for four years. my predecessor did in 2011 and he called me up and said would you come visit with me and he said sure. we disagreed on taxes and trade. at the end he said i want to give you guys some money. send me a letter and that's how it happened. >> did you give him your cell phone? >> no, i didn't thank goodness. >> let me ask you this, who do you like? if trump is not the right one, which other candidates do the club for growth sees consistent. >> two of them that stayed in the hunt are marco rubio and ted cruz.

>> what about jeb bush? >> jeb actually has a strong record in florida of lower taxes, reducing the size of government and we put that out there in the white paper as well. i've told our members, jeb bush would be a progrowth president but there might be some things we don't like. >> like what? what are you concerned about? >> the common core indicates this let's rely on the federal government and it wasn't clear then what he would do on taxes. since then, he's put out a plan it's sort of an inbetween that has progrowth elements. >> all right. david macintosh, thank you very, very much. >> thank you. good to see all of you. >> coming up, we'll talk to david about his new book. it's a flash back to the powerful changes. steve has a follow up to his --

>> do you want to ask him that question? >> i do. i think it's going to be a perfect question for him. >> about keystone? >> i think it's perfect. he's the one. the new numbers from the census bureau that makes the charts more troubling. we're just a week away from the third leg of our know your value tour. it's going to be so much fun. >> it's going to be amazing. >> we have this competition which i love this. if you go on msnbc.com/know your value and hit the gallery for the know your bonus competition. you'll see. >> harold and i want to earn the $10,000. >> you'll see all these women put in great stories. >> they'll ask women to pitch their value. put a number on it, put information behind it. tell me why you deserve a

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the reaction and fall out from ben carson's comments about whether a muslim can be president and we'll look at the famous spaces backing bernie sanders. keep it right here on morning joe. at mfs investment management, we believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights. active management can take calculated risks. active management can seek to outperform. because active investment management isn't reactive. it's active. that's the power of active management.

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nbc survey shows donald trump continues to lead the field. 29% of republican and independent voters who lean republican say they would now cast their vote for trump. 14% are behind ben carson while carly fiorina is coming up fast at 11 points and jesh bush in fourth place with 8%. the online pole finds fiorina performed best in last week's debate. trump is at second with 21% and marco rubio at 8%. meanwhile, most voters expect the eventual nominee to be beat. he takes 21% to bush's 14%. donald trump still leads but fallen eight points. carly fiorina has rocketed past

ben carson with a gain of 12 points. also doing well senator marco rubio who gained eight points. he's in fourth place. >> let's look at the numbers. as always, of course, you were right. carly fiorina rocketed in the performance from 3-15%. donald trump down a good bit and ben carson down a good bit. another big winner, marco rubio from 3% to 11%. those two performances, carly's and marco's made a big difference in voter's mind. >> i think a lot of people are going to be watching her and trying to figure out if these two start to make it to the top of the tier as ben carson moves down. i think it's going to be a matter of who can win the general. people will start looking at carly wondering if she's a more formitical opponent. >> if you're a member of the

republican establishment, you got to be looking at these numbers and saying okay, is marco our -- again, i've been saying that. everybody's talking about marco, he's been staying at 1, 2, 3 perce3%. the test is how does this trons for to ohio, iowa, wherefore it matters. if you're looking for somebody to beat donald trump or ben carson, suddenly, marco has got to be up there along with jeb. >> timing is everything. you think about where the republican establishment was coming into the debate. looking at trump, fiorina, carson and cruz taking up more than 50% of the space in national poling and as you say looking if for the candidate we can rally behind. it goes for a long time. would it be jeb bush? it could still be. timing is everything.

marco's performance, he got no lift. this time he gives a strong performance and gets a lot of lift mainly because it's a month later and people are a lot more panicked on the establishment side about the endurance of donald trump. >> do you have any reporting at all because i usually have a pretty good bs detector. i've sensed absolutely no panic in the bush camp yet. they're not happy. they're scratching their heads but i have sensed absolutely no panic. they think they're exactly where they need to be. >> they're more worried about in the end marco rubio than they are about donald trump. if they get in a race with donald trump, they can win that race. marco rubio takes up space they need to occupy. they are not panicking. what's happening now in the done nor class is there's a lot of scott walker done nors looking for a new home and they might head towards marco rubio because

thaef reje they've rejected the jeb bush option. >> more than half of the republican voters that watched the devote bade fiorina did well. another 31% said trump has the worst performance of the night. however, donald trump disagreed with this. >> it's about carly's performance. >> she's got a line of pitter patter i've heard many times from her. she starts off by saying the first thing i do is call my dear friend netanyahu of israel. she said it the other night too. same exact words like a robot. everybody says oh, that's wonderful. if you've heard her several times, someone accused her the other day of having robotic.

she's very robotic. >> is this going to be the next low energy. >> yes. she's not low energy but she's robotic. >> can i just say, carly, don't take the bait. we told jeb not to take the bait and he took the bait. i was told this at one of the first campaign events i ever went to, a campaign school. i went to a campaign school and the guy told me, he said repeat the same thing. say it for months. when you feel like you are about to get sick because you've said it so much, say it again. at that point you're just beginning to crack through.

>> she's clearly gotten under his skin. for mr. trump to make that allegation about her, he continues to say our leaders are worse than the leaders in japan and china and mexico. he makes the same comments over and over again. >> i think in the debate she was on her game and articulate. >> she took advantage of an opportunity donald trump gave her. the opening was given to her on a silver platter. she knew she was going to get asked about it and had a very well and i say this in not any disparaging way. she had a great response and

delivered it perfectly and it was the moment of the night. >> i will say also, what a contrast between her and the two front runners. ben carson, donald trump, they are free dpoform. >> yeah. however you want to put it, you can put it that way. you never know where they're going because they don't know where they're going. so there is a contrast is she is so sharp and crisp and i should take note by the fact.

>> i think one of the reasons carly shot up in the poles was because not only was she focussed and determined in her answers, her answers were based in substance. now, you can disagree with her positions on things but she stood there and looked like a credible candidate for president who had answers to every question that was asked of her, not bluster or buffoon ri but actual answers. when it comes to her record at hewitt-packard. i keep going back to the breakfast in april where she was hammered and hammered hard from the washington press core about her tenure at hewitt-packard. she had answers for all questions. you may disagree about her tenure but if anyone thinks they're going to knock her off her game or stride by going after her tenure at

hewitt-packard, they better think again. >> barbara did it. >> she did a 30 second add. we're going to learn from mistakes. she seems to be someone whose learned a lot. >> steve, there are some facts there she's going to have to deal with and i think to john's point and steve's point about the kind of adds that went against her with the jobs, she's got to figure out how to deal with that. >>. the only thing she really has to answer to and i'm saying politically, again, most would probably agree with you guys. how do you fire all these people when you get the massive severance pay after running the accompany in the ground. that's the title she has to answer. >> it's corporate jets and huge salary and huge goals.

>> she was a first time dand date and she was going through all that the first time. she'll now have answers. whether it's effective answers is another question. my argument that we learned from the past is i just really want, before i saw her, when she walked up on stage, this is the first time i saw her, it's like oh my god, how bad is this going to be? i just set back and held my breath saying i hope it's not too bad or she embarrasses herself because she had a reputation and at the end of that it was like oh my god, where did she come from? i'm telling you, this is a woman whose very tough, knows how to answer the questions and shown politically how much she's grown. >> we've got a couple other stories we want to get to. should we do the comments by ben carson? the renowned neurosurgeon saying

on meet the press that a muslim should not be elected president of the united states. >> should a president's faith matter? should your faith matter to voters? i. >> i guess it depends on what the faith is. if it's inconsistent with the values and principals of america, then of course, it should matter. if it fits within the realm of america and consistent with the constitution, know problem. >> so, do you believe that islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i don't. i do not. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that. >> okay. so we will, ted cruz, i think said it best. i'm a constitution guy. i like the constitution. there's no religious test in the constitution. in this case i stand with ted cruz and i think most republicans do. >> with article six paragraph.

not only are there no religious test but the constitution prohibits religious test or presiden presidency. there you are. >> we have a new pole that's just come out, john, it's very interesting on the democratic side. what's it showing you? >> we have been siting the cnn numbers for the republican side so the democratic numbers just come out. they show hillary clinton 42% nationally, bernie sanders at 24 and joe biden at 22. for comparative purposes, the last time they seen the pole in september, clinton was at 37. sanders at 27 and biden at 20. hillary has gained a little ground. sanders has fallen a little bit and joe biden has gone up a little bit even though he's not in the race. >> hearing a couple of things. >> support from biden has come from hillary. hillary is at 42%. isn't that where she was last month. >> like hillary dropped from the

50s down to i thought 42%. >> i look at the number one. the september numbers was clinton at 37. >> 37. clinton has gone up from 37 to 42. >> she's gone up five points. >> sanders has dropped from 27 to 22 to 24, i'm sorry. biden has gone up from 20-22. these are all small changes. these are all small changes. >> i will say though certainly if i were the vice president again continuing to look at this race, he continues to rise in the poles by the fact he's not in the race. >> the thing harold ford, the question we were asking after the last poles came out were where when does hillary stop the bleeding and how far, how low will hillary go before she turns around. the fact that she's gone up five points and her going out doing

republic public events and not hiding has an impact. it's not a massive change but it's in the right direction which is at this point what matters. >> i think they're taking sanders and his message more seriously which this show has called for people around this table. it's called for her taking a different approach to how she campaigns and how she lays out her vision. i think the more she does that, the more successful she'll be. i think the impact that joe biden, when he gets in the race or not, you feel already. she's reacting to that already. i think she's behaving almost as joe biden is in the race or behaving as if she is. the numbers at least verify or validate what they're beginning to do works that much buetter. >> the point he's making is if he runs the same pole without biden in the race, hillary gains

vastly more than sanders. the biden supporter for people whom clinton would be their second choice. it puts hillary at 57 and sanders at 28. even if biden decides not to run, hillary stands to gain more than sanders. >> i was going to say when you watched her this weekend she had much more of a feeling of a happy warrior and seemed more relaxed and better. when you watched her on face the nation sunday, the first part of the interview with a level of feel and sophistication and knowledge that i don't think any of the others can match and this week she's going to roll out a health care plan and trying to be ready for any kind of biden tendency. >> absolutely. we saw the interview and then some. this weekend, new hampshire's democrat democratic -- brought to surface the presidential debates. one of candidates has been

complaining there needs to be more, it needs to be broader. the dnc needs to be under pressure from candidates and party officials to schedule only six debates. on saturday chairwoman was repeatedly interrupted by chance of more debates as she tried to keep the focus on donald trump and the g.o.p. take a look. >> in rochester, trump was at it again. one of his supporters in the audience called president obama a muslim. my friends, what's more important? drawing the contrast with republicans or arguing about debates? let's focus on our mission an the task at hand. enough is enough. enough is enough. >> now, a house minority leader is growing the ranks of lawmakers calling for more debates. the l.a. times would like to see more than at that six currently scheduled and it seems to me when out find out more candidates or more debates,

that's better for whether it's the republican party or democratic. look what the republicans are learning through two debates already. >> and look at quiet frankly the work that the democratic side needs. we need these conversations. we need to see them happening between democratic candidates so they can challenge each other. it's better for the country and the candidates too. i'm not sure, debbie seems to be in like her own glass box about this and it's one that wants to anote one candidate and leave others out. she's absolutely wrong about this. everyone's yelling at her. >> hillary controls her. >> there we go again. you heard terry come out. of course, he's bought and paid for by the clintons as well. >> this is how it goes. >> isn't competition better. is it more candidates and more debates? >> no, harold doesn't want that.

>> i think this should be more debates. i'm unapoll jet cli for mrs. clinton. i think she would be the best. if the six debate strategy isn't what they want, then they got to rethink this. calling for more debates. if i were in the race i would call for more debates. >> if you had to guess, why would she be doing this? >> if you were in the race and headed by 30-40 points would you call for more debates? >> if i were on the democratic

national executive committee, i would be calling for more debates. i've been in races where i was ahead 40 points and i understand the incident. however, if they're calling for more debates and you're the party chairman, you have a responsibility to react to them. if you're mika and joe, i think that's what you're all sugge suggesting. i think there should be more debate. >> more debates. >> it pays great. >> if you think back and go back to 2008, the dnc back then only sanctioned six or seven debates. what they didn't do was try to shut down unsanctioned debates. >> that's the difference. >> that's the big difference. the number of sanction debates is roughly the same. 2008 they didn't try to impose any kind of penalties in anyone who took part in unsanctioned debates and you had 20 some odd democratic debates and hillary clinton and some others and barack obama went at it for months and months and it worked

out well. >> the republican party did the same thing in 2012 and it didn't work out so well. >> yes, although, i think steve as a good democrat, you would say a hike possible that the republican field was not as strong in 2012 as the dem democrat rancic field was in 2008. they had a very weak field and it was highlighted. >> obviously, that is true hypothetically and possible if you believe romney was the strongest candidate, all the debates did not help him. it pulled him over past where he wanted to be and where he would have had a better chance. >> so the bernie sanders campaign has released an artist for bernie page on their website listing a vast array of celebrities who has come out in support of his candidacy. among the actress, the support for sanders susan, will ferril

and a list of musicians is long and diverse as well. the supporters include foo fighters lead guitarist, red hot chilly peppers. >> jonathan, the conservative for such a long time, democrats have the best conventions. >> the best. >> talking to a chair. come on, you can't. >> talking to a chair, you can't beat that. >> are you talking to me? >> i'm not sure what the question is but. >> it's fine. >> democrats seem to be very enamored with celebrity endorsements and putting them out there. when they were announced on

friday and i was anchoring the 5:00 show and i'm reading the names, i'm thinking why do i care? >> i'm trying to think if i cared about one of those. >> i saw danny on that list and i thought that was interesting. other than that. >> jonathan, thank you. >> thanks, guys. >> we're 10 days away from a possible government shut down. now carly fiorina is joining ted cruz in putting pressure on the planned parent hood. we'll speak to the chairman about the possibility of a second shut down when he joins us next. that will help the democrats win. we'll be right back.

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26 past the hour, joining us now chairman of the republican conference, senator john foon. >> will you guarantee for the american people that the government will be shut down again for the second time in two years? >> please, for the democrats

please say yes. >> no. that's not a good thing for us. shutting down the government is not the way to get it done. >> what do you say to them? we put you guys in power and yet planned parent hood is still getting federal funding while i'm looking at all these horrific videos. if you guys can't do this. >> you want to member you want to get the result. i think our people want to see the fight. we want to have the fight and win the fight when the time

comes. etch if we could win in the congress which we wouldn't be able to get 60 in the senate, the president is going to very toe it. that doesn't get at the funding. you would still have funding going out there. i think it's a better way to do this and i think we're going to get an opportunity not only to fund the government but to put something on the desk that would redirect funding from planned parent hood to community centers. >> government shut down, how it is. >> you were there both times. it ends badly for our party. >> it ends badly.

it's not going to be the way it's reported. >> the wall street journal has said republicans always get the blame for republican shut downs and they do. if the president is going to be vetoing the bill he won't compromise on the issue and yet we'll get the blame no matter what. why do republicans always get the blame? >> we're not to government party. people assume it's us. the democrats are the republican party. when you get in one of these debates, i think there's a natural alliance with the democrats and certainly, the media would report it that way. this does not help our cause in the long run. that's the thing our members have to understand. we have certain goals we want to achieve and objectives we want to acomp learn and this doesn't get us there. >> i agree with you. when you look at joe, what you're trying to get accompli accomplished, if the goal is defund planned parent hood, i

don't think we should be funded. >> remember one thing. even if we were successful if we went nuclear you still have the president that's going to veto this. you don't get the result. what you've done is changed forever the rules that protect the minority and the senate. i think republicans realize over the last century we've been a minority more than a majority. the constitution is what it is and i think in as much as we have a lot of people that would like to see us go to 51 and people vote on legislation as well as judges, it does protect minority rights in the senate and i think if we went to that

extent on this issue, we still wouldn't get the result. >> john. >> senator, you're i would say fairly an establishment guy. >> when you look at the republican parties as nominating right now donald trump, ben carson, carly fiorina, all people that are outsiders taking up more than 50% of the vote right now or at least a vote in the public opinion poles, how does that make you feel about the state of the party? >> when it comes to governing the country and getting things done, it's obviously harder.

it's like a test drive. they need something that's going to get the job done. this is the long game. there are a lot of candidates out there that can speak to those issues.

right now, we're in the preliminary phase. whose taking the test drive? >> let me ask you, got to take the boxes. was barack obama born in america? >> sure. >> jack. >> wow. >> is barack obama a christian? check. >> does barack obama love america? >> sure. >> check. final question. can you support a republican nominee that can't answer those questions as quickly as you just did? i can't. i'm going to say it right now, i will not vote for somebody who can't answer those questions as quickly as you did. if they need to process to get to that point, so be it. i will not vote for a nominee that can't say those three things right now. what about you? >> i think that if voting for a candidate in this country for national office, i'm going to look for a candidate that shares my values and principals and i think we have a historic history

in the country that's found on jew day rancic principles. there's nothing in the constitution that disqualifies anybody from running for office. >> i'm troubled by candidates that are playing a game, dog whistles to dark forces and i wonder if we don't have responsibility to stand up. if you can't say he's a christian and you're going to play the bizarre courses, we don't want any part of you. >> it's a very diverse country. >> he checked the boxes. >> would would you be comfortable with donald trump or ben carson? >> i think when we get through

this process and those guys can clear the hurdles they're going to have to clear in the next few months, obviously, i'll support the nominee of the party. >> you recollected say he's really nice. >> senator john, thank you very much. good to have you on the show. good luck with everything. still ahead on morning joe, free falling inside the new numbers from the census bureau that could spell bad news for wages. steve breaks it down straight ahead. play awesome party song. ♪

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up next, looking at the american dream and what it means for our future. keep it here on morning joe. ♪ ♪

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that is part of a 2011 super bowl add by chrysler that inspired our book. once in the great city a detroit story. david writes about the commercial. by the time it was over i was

scho choked up. i wanted to write about the city. detroit's decay was in the news and it's event actual bankruptcy was predictable. it's prediction was something others could analyze. >> i remember, it was just, you just felt the defiance. >> you actually went back and looked for a period from 1962 to 1964. >> freedom marchers were there and they called the president of

the united states the harold of hope. yet you said in 63 and 64 there were signs of decay on the horizon. what were the woarning signs? >> this was before the municipal corruption. this went back to the 50s with the district leaving detroit and the difficulties of urban renew. >> nobody can see it then. >> well, wade state university sociologist saw it and they had a half million people every decade from then on. >> so talk about that time. talk about 1963. >> it was magical. there had been a little bit of a dip before that.

they were taking the sound track of my generation and all of ours to the world. walter ruther were strongest and not only was uaw helping bring the working people into the middle class but also important for civil rights. >> dr. king's i have a dream speech is probably the most iconic given in the century. >> a couple months before he came to washington. the same generation of i have a dream. 150,000 people march down the avenue in the middle of destr t

destroit. they were about to sell it as a record. >> wow. >> and of course, the car industry played a big role in detroit both in its rise and fall. in the 60s, the car industry was relieving. what caused that the happen and why didn't anybody think to say hey guys, we got to work this out. >> it was sort of a perfect storm in detroit where here you have the place that made cars both the freeways and a lot of people believe the city and the industry left as well. of course, there's a lot of economic reasons why they went around the nation and the world

after that to build their cars but leaving detroit behind, this place that was so instrumental and the foundation of the cars and the working middle class in the long run hurt everybody. >> steve, by the way, you have numbers and charts on looking at income inequality especially after the latest census bureau administration. >> i think i held out hope numbers made it better. coincidentally last week numbers came out that made it seem better. when you go back to this. >> you're so negative. >> you need a support group. when you see the middle class income up here in the $57,000 range and you see this decline going down steadily, it looked

like there was going to be a blip up. they have stuff besides letting people live here, here's a chart showing what happened since 2006 to the income of the average person starting with those at the bottom and going to those at the top and what you see is only the top 10% of americans, those are people who have incomes over $156,000 a year. the middle class had them go down to most. we've been talking on the show

about the politics of all this. this, of course, is the big issue for story. even the guys running the company, going out to the most exclusive suburbs while the union workers lost their jobs and get their wages cut. >> detroit is in some sense an exaggeration of the problems of the country. you know, i was there this week and went to the apartment flat where i was a 6-year-old watching the 1955 cars drive by and they tore it down. there are wide swaths of detroit that are no longer there anymore. 40% of the people in detroit are below the poverty line. those issues are still huge there. >> can we talk really quickly, positively about what mika and i have seen and steve and harold as we've gone back to detroit and you go downtown and they're

actually doing it right, they're building a core downtown and they're getting occupancy, getting young people moving in there. >> there's more energy every time i go back and potential. you're right, the downtown and the midtown area near the wonderful art museum, wayne state university, both of those are really growing and thriving. you're absolutely right about young people. i've often said if you're 22 to 35, go to detroit. you can invent yourself there in a wonderful way, with inexpensive housing and there are a lot of artists and foodies and techies going there for a reason. >> the back is "once in a great city," david maraniss. congratulations on the book. coming up on "morning joe," president obama was the first president to visit a federal prison back in july and now he's trying to overall the justice system. shane smith takes an in-depth look at prisons in the u.s. in

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this morning people are mourning the loss of staff are jake brewer who was killed while

taking part in a bicycle ride. his bike went out of control. he was remembered by president obama in a statement that reads in part, "i've often said that today's younger generation is smarter, more determined and more capable of making a difference than i was as a young man. jake was proof of that." friends have launched a go fund me project for an education fund for his wife and family and another child on the way. she's pregnant with their second child. that was taken just a few weeks ago. it's impossible to imagine this. >> well, our thoughts and

prayers are with mary katherine and the entire family and all of jake's friends and workers at the white house. >> we'll be right back. it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you're free to focus on growing your business. centurylink. your link to what's next. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta he fires up the free wifi, with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before!

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donald trump said that. i'm sorry. welcome to "morning joe." happy monday, everybody. the emmys were quite something last night. >> and john won finally. >> with us, john heilemann and professor at the university of michigan school of public policy, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. i say it better, don't i, steve? >> yes, you do. >> with like a purr in my voice. >> a lot of people trying to figure out how the debates are going to factor into the polls. we found out at least in first sketch in some of the national polls, which aren't really as relevant but they certainly talk about big trend lines. >> i'm feeling a little bit

like, okay, the world make sense. what we predicted has sort of come to pass here. an nbc news online survey shows donald trump continues to lead the crowded field. 29% of republicans say they would vote for donald trump, followed by ben carson at 14% with carly fiorina coming up fast at 11%. and the poll showed that carly fiorina did best in the debate. and now it shows trump would be

the nominee at 32%. >> carly fiorina has rocketed past ben carson and also faring well, senator marco rubio. let's >> let's go back to these numbers. a lot of things to pick apart. let's talk about the two previous front-runners. donald trump and ben carson, trend lines down. >> trend lines down. >> the big question coming out of that debate of course was whether trump -- whether his performance, which some thought was not his best performance everyone, would that affect him. at least the poll seems to suggest that it has affected him somewhat. been carson has not come down as

far. if you believe that poll, trump has lost more altitude than carson, who is where he's been for several months. >> you take them all together, trump is still in first place, in a pretty good place but some of the momentum definitely slowed. we're going to look at some of the other people here that stick out. harold ford, obviously carly fiorina a massive, massive night. >> there's no doubt. you add those numbers up, that's 53% of the vote for those top three, all three outsiders, none have been elected to public office before. the person i look at the most is rubio there. if you're rubio, bush, cruz, huckabee and everybody else, if the three top ones begin to lose altitude, i think trump has plateaued. rubio is in best position, at

least according to this new poll ing. >> carly up from 3% to 15%. a massive rise. for everybody who says debates don't matter, kaboom. they make a huge difference. you look at her and marco rubio, who a lot of people said turned in a strong performance last time but didn't see it in the poll, both have good debate performances and both rocketed up. >> i remember thinking donald trump would keep his lead because nothing kind of hurt him here but it was long and she would jump over carson. >> and she did. if you're jeb bush's people, you just have to think about the whole bret hume comment, which is you can make the dog food, you can't make the dog eat the dog food. if you're jeb in fifth place and all these people shooting past you, it's not just about donald

trump. >> carly fiorina still has to deal with her history as a ceo at hewlett packard. >> it's an interesting article. >> she trying to redefine her role as ceo. i don't think she can redefine it away what i think by every estimation was a failed ceo. >> i wouldn't say every estimation. >> have you read the article? >> you come to the table saying that. >> i come to the table saying that. >> a lot of people who know something else say it's not as cut and dry. >> i've been reading wall street journal articles -- >> i read a wall street journal article the other day in which they make the point she was a failed ceo. >> you may a very declarative statement saying that everybody

says she was a failed ceo. i don't think that's an accurate statement. >> if you say everybody, i'm sure can you find somebody who will say something else. the vast preponderance of people say she was a ceo. since she left hewlett packard, she was not offered another ceo position. >> also in the cnn poll, the total collapse of wisconsin governor scott walker, who was widely considered a top tier candidate no longer registers even half a percentage point. walk are commented on the new numbers and the rise of the outsiders. >> if people are asking to hire someone and do a job interview, i wouldn't be a person to build

condos, i wouldn't be the person who run h.p. but do i have experience taking on the washington based special interests. if people want an outsider, someone who has it and on washington before and been successful, i think in the end that's what voters are looking for. >> what's happened to his campaign? >> the good gets better and the bad gets worse. he's been one of those -- he hit the ground running early this year with a couple great speeches. he seems to have peaked and then the downward momentum is pulling him down. every time he has an opportunity to do something to change that, like the debate last week, he fails to do that and now there is i would say widespread panic among his supporters and donors. part of the reason why she rose so much, as she pointed out the day after the debate, very few people knew who she was, knew

she was running before the debate. that was her big opportunity. the polling said many people didn't know anything about her, didn't know she was in the race. so she introduced herself to the country. in the one political race she's run, her tenure the hewlett packard was a huge liability. barbara boxer destroyed her with ad late in that senate rate. but she is still -- before the other night, she was a blank slate. she gave a great debate performance, now other people are going to try to define her. >> i think most people on wall street would agree with steve, you go through the article, read through it and dig through it and what you find out is revenues to h.p. rose under her

rein. let me finish. steve, we understand you think she sucks. let me finish. profits did not. she flat lined. she was also seen as a very divisive figure inside the board room so they got rid of her. now, she made a deal with compaq. it brought in the revenue but not the profits. if anybody thinks republicans voters are going to go into a voting booth figuring out profits margins of a compaq deal versus how much money she brought into the company in the middle of a dot-com bust -- >> isn't this what mitt romney went through? >> the best measure in a way of all the different factors you're talk about is what happened to the stock price. the stock price declined. the thing that barbara boxer got

her for was eliminating tens of thousands of jobs and you're going to see those ads over and over and over again. >> but again, as devastating to her was what she was criticized was feathering her own nest at the same time, firing a lot of people and corporate jet, big bonuses -- >> huge severance, gold een parachutes. >> that is a big argument if you're barbara boxer running against her. as far as actual tenure goes, you get into it, the printing business by that time, it was a mature business. they had to figure out what they were doing. the same thing with compaq. they were trying to keep up with dell. there a million different things going on at the same time. i can just say this debate is over.

republicans will not decide to vote for her. i'm just saying. i know them. based on that. the golden parachute, firing people, that's another issue. >> she's the first candidate in this race to take donald trump frontally and substantively and coming out of it ahead. she introduced herself to john's point but if you were the trump folks, you have to say maybe she's the only one that can do it but she took him on and her numbers went up. >> i never said to myself watching the debate, wow,that's one women with ten men i just thought that's a really good candidate and i thought about it in retrospect and i was really impressed. >> it's sort of the margaret thatcher test. she was a great prime minister who happened to be a woman and carly was a great debater that happened to be a wamp. >> the one thing to remind you

is that she was really prepared. >> unlike a lot of of the guys. >> exactly. >> now to the candidates like ben carson. the neurosurgeon and devout christian saying on "meet the press" saying that a muslim should not be elected president of the united states. >> should a president's faith matters? >> i guess what that faith is. if it's inconsistent with the values and principles of america, then of course it should matter. but if it fits within the realm of america and consistent with the constitution, no problem. >> so do you believe that islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i do not. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that.

>> carson added in his comments "muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official and that's inconsistent with our principles and our constitution". >> just as we found john f. kennedy pledged allegiance to the hope every morning -- oh, wait, no he didn't. i heard this argument before. >> carson said he would make an exception if a candidate ma publicly gentlemen jebd all the tenants of sharia. and there is a gap among the political parties on voting for a muslim candidate while 73% of democrats say they would support

a muslim, just 45% of republicans are open to it. >> by the way, one out of four americans said they would not support an evangelical christian. >> carson's fellow republican candidates also reacted to the question about whether a muslim could be president. >> to me, i think the american people are going to decide who the president is based on the merits of their position and qualifications, not based on religious beliefs. >> i think this shows that dr. carson is not ready to be commander in chief. he said he didn't believe somebody of the muslim faith could be loyal to the constitution. my belief is that approximate 3,500 american muslims wearing the uniform of the united states military are loyal to their country, they're fighting and dying for their nation. >> can you imagine supporting or

being comfortable if a muslim ever became president of the united states? >> i could say that it's something that at some point could happen. we'll see. it's something that could happen. would i be comfortable? i don't know that we have to address it right now but it could happen. some people have said it already happened frankly but of course you wouldn't agree with that. >> all right. so, i don't know. >> just for the sake of dr. carson as he proceeds -- >> the more i get to know him -- >> article 6, paragraph 3, professor scarborough of the u.s. constitution states no religious test shall ever be required to any office of public trust in the united states. you can just take a look at the documents and answer the question. >> no religious test. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the stunning report documenting

the process by which u.s. soldiers are instructed to ignore the sexual abuse of young boys from afghan allies. from high how up the chain of command did those order come? and appropriation francis spending his last full day in cuba before coming to the u.s. we'll have all the details from havana. keep it right here on "morning joe." thanks to angie's list, now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. mother nature can turn in an instant; sfx: drum beats don't turn back. ♪ introducing the new 2016 ford explorer.

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>> it appears to be alienating communities of parents whose children are forced to endure the abuse. >> how did this happen? how far up did it go? is it just the commanders that -- is is it just the people that are running the bases that are allowing this to happen that

are now going to need to be brought to justice in our military system or does it go all the way up to the pentagon? how far up does it go? how high up does it go in the chain of command where they know that, quote, allies are chaining young boys to bed as the new york city says, as sex slaves and actually kicking out soldiers, american soldiers, coming to the defense of boys chained to beds as sex slaves. how high up does this go? the pentagon needs to answer that. the administration needs to answer that. who knows. who knew this was happening? who allowed it to continue, who said turn the other way? >> and according to this article, it was happening -- it's so prevalent that american soldiers could hear it. >> how high up does it go? >> the amazing thing, the allegation that it's happening

on a united states base would suggest that your question not on deserves an answer but there could be legal implications here if we're allowing this to happen on u.s. property. i can't recall the rules our base is considered their property or our property. if this is occurring on a military base, those kid would have to have some protection. do you recall this? >> neither you nor i are experts -- >> i can't recall in congress what the rule is. i've been on these base. i can't recall what the rule is. >> if there was a u.s. officer that knew about young boys being chained to beds and being raped as sex slaves, they need to be kicked out of the military now. i don't know if they're court martialed, if they spend time in jail but something has to happen. justice has to be done. and we as an american people need to know how high up this

went in the chain of command. >> i would agree. >> and everybody needs to be brought to justice at once. >> pope francis is spending his last full day in cuba. he met yesterday with fidel castro after dealing a subtle jab after mass. anne thompson joins us. >> reporter: the magic moments on this trip has come when he's met the people. past the icons of the communist takeover, pope francis rolled into havana's revolution square to celebrate sunday's mass. a living symbol of inspiration for many of the cuban people. what is driving that enthusiasm? >> i guess the hope.

we have a lot of hope on him. >> why do you have hope? what makes you hopeful? >> it's not only what he's saying but what he's doing. >> reporter: dora lopez says she's impressed. in 90 degree heat and humidity, the mass was not without incidents. three men rushed the popemobile and others threw papers to the sky. they were arrested. >> the approach of encounter instead of confrontation

embodied by francis is criticized by some. this human rights advocate explains why. >> it's a way to get close to the people and to interact and influence. influence on the people but influence on the government. >> reporter: this pastoral visit had its political homes, meeting president raul castro and a half hour private meeting with his brother, former leader fidel castro. more evidence of how france's appeal seems to transcend the church. >> today pope francis travels to the cube and countryside and he will visit one of the holiest shrines in this country, a shrine that draws pilgrims from all over latin america. mika? >> the "new york times" reporting this morning that those were political dissidents that went to the pope mobile and were asking for meetings and as

they got pulled away, the guy was shutting "freedom." >> coming on "morning joe" -- >> i did a lot of stupid stuff when i was young but i said this before, i was just in an environment where you could afford to make some mistakes, i had more of a margin of error than a lot of kids do, particularly if they're in a low-income community that's surrounded by a lot of drug activity, criminal activity. kids adapt to what they see. >> we'll talk to the founder of vice media, shane smith, about his new documentary on president obama's push to fix the prison system. >> also ahead, he's more accustomed to giving autographs than getting them. so what does kareem abdul-jabbar think of donald trump's handwritten note that didn't

take kindly to his comments. we'll be back with "morning joe." what? wow... yeah! okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh! sorry, i was trying to put it away... got it on the cake. so you're going to work on a train? not on a train...on "trains"! you're not gonna develop stuff anymore? no i am... do you know what ge is? when account lead craig wilson books at laquinta.com. he gets a ready for you alert the second his room is ready. so he knows exactly when he can settle in and practice his big pitch. and when craig gets his pitch down pat, do you know what he becomes? great proposal! let's talk more over golf! great. better yet, how about over tennis? even better. a game changer! your 2 o'clock is here. oops, hold your horses. no problem. la quinta inns & suites is ready for you, so you'll be ready for business. the ready for you alert, only at lq.com. laquinta!

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as a national debate rages on incarceration, for the first time in history, a sitting president visits a federal prison and sit down with inmates, coming face to face with a growing human rights crisis. >> it was an incentive to get tough on drugs. it kept getting ratcheted up.

>> everybody was at risk of life or life without parole. >> what happens because of that? >> injustice happens because of that. >> we let industry commercialize people in prison. >> we're all paying for this. >> we think it's somehow normal for a black youth or latino youth to be going through the system in this way. it's not normal. >> that was a look at "fixing the system," a vice special report on hbo. and the host of the show, shane smith. this looks great. >> it looks really powerful. the moment that the president of the united states is sitting down with prisoners talking about reform, that's powerful. how did you swing that? >> well, it's an issue he feels incredibly strongly about. so not on did we have access to the president, but also to the federal system, which was unique and then, you know, former

attorney general holder, as well as other senators and congress people so it was absolutely fantastic. >> so you're taking an in-depth look at the broken criminal justice system. it must have been a powerful moment to see the president talking with the prisoners about this issue. what else does the documentary do to move the ball forward in the fix? >> that's a good question. i mean, the president feels very strongly about this, former attorney general holder. but what's interesting is that it has a lot of bipartisan support -- >> charles koch? >> exactly. senator mike lee, ted cruz, rand paul, senator corey booker, which you wouldn't see. >> that's impressive. >> what we're trying to do is shine a spotlight, say there's bipartisan support, support from the judiciary, support from the president. let's push this forward in reform. >> here's more of president

obama meeting with a group of inmates at a prison in oklahoma. take a look. >> the majority of my family members were dealing drugs. so i kind of grew up around it. as i got older, i decided i wand -- wanted to be a part of that. >> tyrone ramsey is serving 15 years on a drug charge. >> i'm taking advantage of the college program, graduating may of 2016. i'm taking advantage of this time to better myself as a man for my kids. when i get out, i can be a better person to them. they can look up to me like my dad has really changed his life, turned his life around. >> that would be a powerful message to them. >> yes, sir. >> you see the president doing that, has a huge amount of emotional impact just to see him talking with those prisoners like that. you talked about bipartisan support. is this an issue where the white house, this can actually happen where the white house needs to be in the lead?

>> i think so. because i think what i touch on in the piece is that, you know, this is a first time a sitting president visited a federal prison. i think it's also because there's what little bit of there but for the grace of god go i. there's more empathy than in the past. this has become a personal issue for him as well as attorney general holder and i think they do have to lead. but what's interesting is there is a big push in both congress and the senate to get something done because everyone realizes just how broken the system is. >> one of the things that came up last week in some story i read talked about what complicates this issue now in washington is the crime wave that's washing over washington d.c., the homicides are off the charts. if you're sitting on capitol hill and there is bipartisan

consensus but it's also headed into election year, you don't want to look soft on crime, what do the politics of this look like from a correctional perspective in. >> the politics on this over a year ago were easy, preferguson, pre basically revolt by a lot of law enforcement agencies, it's an easy call, let's do this. right now going into an election season, you're exactly right it's really complicated. this is something that's hard to explain to the rank and file even if your biggest evening supporters are for it or even if it seems like the right thing to do. it's a much tougher call because of this crime wave that's not only in washington, d.c. but we're certainly seeing it across the country. >> i think the stat that, you know, we focus on in this doc, is 56%, which is non-violent or

majority of them are non-violent drug offenses. that's more than arson, murder, rape, embezzlement, all crime that you think of when you think of prisons, more than all of that combined are the majority of non-violent crime offenses. >> that is the easier sell. can i go to the most conservative district in america and say do you really think that somebody who is not white and somebody who is not connected, that, you know, gets busted with pot should be in the prison system? and even if you don't care about that, even if you don't care about justice, the cost. it's insanity. >> $80 billion. >> how much? >> $80 billion a year. >> insanity. >> with a 50% recidivism rate, which means we're failing half the time and spending $80 billion a year. >> can i ask you about vice?

crazy, crazy. television may be television but vice is there, too. >> we also do online and mobile. i think the reason why valuations for why advice is a new media it's because gen-y exists on all media but mostly mobile. tv is still a great place to go. >> you know what scares me, being a tv guy and mika is the same way, we get so much of our news from our phones. and if a 52-year-old guy is consuming the majority of his news on his phone -- >> young people are already there. they're already cordless. i was forced because you know that i got a tv that goes in the wall, you know, you have ever

heard of those? and the remote was driving me crazy. and it finally get to work and there's like a delay, forget it. couldn't figure out -- no, no, it's not just me. hold on, getting to my point, i said you know what it and i got my phone and i got what i needed on the phone. i don't think i might take the tv down from the wall. i'm serious. i don't need it anymore. it doesn't work. and it's too smart, if you know what i mean. it doesn't work. it doesn't work. it too complicated. >> you heard it here first, tv doesn't work, it all online. >> let me just say television is the new television. >> this is the on moment where i can remember ever when i thought mika had something in common with gen-y. >> by my own stupidity and not

being able to use the tv remote. >> "vice, fixing the system" on september 27th. >> and coming up, volkswagen apologizing. >> and five days away. >> a big know your value event in chicago. submit a video, tell us what your value is and pitch it. you might be a finalist live on stage in boston or orlando but

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on some of the models that would evade detection by environmental testing when you get the cars inspected to reduce emissions to make them legal. then once the car would go back on the road, be disconnected and then go back up. >> is this a crime? >> they're facing fines of up to $18 billion. they'll pulling all their new cars that have this engine

because they won't meet standards, which means about 500,000 cars on the road, jettas, pasats, may not be legal to drive because they won't pass inspection. volkswagen shares down as much as 20%. it is far from over. >> that's devastating. >> it really is. we'll be following that. coming up next, kareem abdul-jabbar has a great hook shot but lately donald trump has been going one-on-one with him. we'll explain all of this ahead. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count.

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a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? misswill turn anan asphalt parking lot into a new neighborhood for san franciscans.

a vote for "yes" on "d" is definitely a vote for more parks and open space. a vote on proposition "d" is a vote for jobs. campos: no one is being displaced. it's 40% affordable units near the waterfront for regular people. this is just a win-win for our city. i'm behind it 100%. voting yes on "d" is so helpful to so many families in our city. joining us now is the six-time hall of famer, kareem abdul-jabbar. he's a contributor for the "new york times," and author. it's his first novel and tenth published book. you're kind of accomplished.

>> it looks fantastic. >> you once said about kermit the frog, it's not easy being green, try being a muslim in america. what's your reaction being a muslim in the united states? and, secondly, do you like the fact that most people rose up from ted cruz criticizing him for that? >> i was disappointed by dr. carson and i was reassured by the response. if you believe in the constitution and you want to fight to preserve and enhance it, most husbamuslim americans in the second category. religion is not supposed to be a litmus test for office here in the united states of america. and i'm glad most americans feel

that way. >> what's worse, people suggesting barack obama is a muslim? >> that's absurd. >> or that somehow being a slur if he were a muslim? >> so many people were disappointed that a black american could be elected president that they have to be invent all these fictitious reasons why they don't think they have to respect the fact that he is president. he won the office. he beat them twice. that's the worst part for most of them. he whipped them and they don't like that. >> and we're still talking about it. what i find kind of staggering is here we are all over again and there are polls that show that show the sentiment of the country is partly still there. i'm just saying that's the reality. >> we actually teased about donald and him back and forth so i have to talk about it. really quickly, donald trump

didn't like a column. >> i criticized him for the way that he was treating journalists. it's their job to ask questions so the american people can be informed about the political candidates and he does not have anything of substance to say so he attacks me. that's how he gets by on that, by being a schoolyard bully. >> but you got a personalized note and that signature. >> i got a note from the class bully, that's great. but i'm not worried about it. >> let's talk about your book. why mykroft holmes and not sherlock holmes? >> i picked mykroft because his deductive powers are equal, he's in the british government and sometimes he is the english

government, british government. this is at a time when england is a world superpower and sherlock's brother is the power behind the thrown. it's very interesting and it gave us a huge amount to play with in terms of making up stories. >> one of the most fascinating characters in the bbc story is mykroft. >> i'm going to make a linkage that i believe is possible and this book and your basketball career. sherlock holmes meant something to you as a basketball player. you felt like you learned something from the character that influenced your play. >> i absolutely learned something about the power of observation. sherlock seems to be seeing the world in color where everyone else see it is in black and white. the example i use, the ball boys

in detroit, i heard this many complaining that bob lanier and the coaches smoke cigarettes in half time. so i knew that if he does that, the second half if i make them run a lot, they'll be in pain. so i learned from that. >> and quickly. >> how was writing your first novel? >> i had a great time because of my co-author, anna waterhouse this she's so brilliant and knows what she's doing. it was a lot of fun. i didn't expect it to be fun and it's getting great reviews. >> kareem abdul-jabbar, thanks so much. >> did we learn anything? >> we learned john got in trouble. >> we might have.

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they wrote their own vows and danced the night away. i put to use some of my local reporting skills because i discovered a story. so i went live and reported from lewis's wedding. >> i'm reporting live from lewis's wedding. acore has some news. alex right here. look at acore. aa-ha, a-ha! >> i swear i had not been drinking. not one. that was my live shot. >> is that how you finish the local news, a-ha, a-ha?

>> but alex and his wife, you guys should do that show, what's that show with dancing? >> "dancing with the stars." >> what did you learn? >> i learned nothing. but i do know this is next. >> i'm jose diaz-balart. carly fiorina is surging through the republican field and hillary clinton getting strength on the democratic side. but there are calls for ben carson to drop out of the race because of his idea of a muslim president. >> should a president's faith matter? should your faith matter to voters? >> i guess it depends on what that faith is. if it inconsistent with the values and principles of america, then of course it