girls in those african countries who can afford that. finally, the truth. planned parenthood had nothing to do with it. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. carly fiorina has been telling the world about watching pictures of a fully formed baby kicking and breathing after a everyone has heard her. and not a word of what she said was true. and why? because what she saw was not true. facts matter. at 2:30 today on msnbc, the mother of a child stillborn at 19 weeks came forward. she described holding him, along with her other children, after the delivery. it was not at a planned parenthood facility, nor did it have anything to do with planned parenthood. none of it did.

>> >> they were able to see him, to hold him, to realize that he was real, and while, yes, he was technically stillborn, his heart was beating. i held him in miss hands until his little heart stopped. i could see it clearly under his rip cage. >> thomas roberts asked the mother, lexsy oliver frets how she felt about seeing her son on the anti-abortion group's video. >> this has been really distorted out of context in this larger political conversation. have you felt betrayed in any way by walter's life being used and mischaracterized in such heavy and in some ways mischaracterized political debates? >> i was a little surprised at first, not being directly asked. but, at the same time, i -- our lives are in god's hands. >> republican presidential candidate carly fiorina has insisted that the video showed

an abortion being performed being planned parenthood. will the truth matter? this attack video on planned parenthood being used to shut down the u.s. government is a fraud. its only value has been to dupe a presidential candidate into mouthing its propaganda in a national debate before 24 million people. but will the truth that the baby was stillborn, that its birth and death had nothing to do with plpd planned parenthood count in this wild and angry context of values? joining me, congresswoman, i want to give you a chance to talk about what this means, this falsehood, this lie, this fraud. i want to ask you, and this is startling, that it's come out -- the mother's come out. now, she's an anti-abortion rights person. put that aside. the picture of her stillborn child on that table, breathing and kicking, apparently, was used to say, this is what happens when they have abortions over at planned parenthood. nothing to do with planned parenthood and not an abortion, yet it's right in the middle of this debate being used as

propaganda. >> and it was right in the middle of the discussion on capitol hill today. and i think what the main question will be for carly fiorina going forward is, what does she do about it now? does she disavow what she said earlier? does she make this double down on it and say it doesn't really matter, what was on the video, what matters is her interpretation of what planned parenthood -- >> it is an opportunity for her to say, look, i was -- i was bamboozled. >> and that will be a political decision she'll have to make. she clearly -- >> and i know you don't want to deal with political judgment, but it is a fact that it was a video put into this context to make it look like, this is how badly they behave at planned parenthood. >> and she's using it to make a larger point that in her view, planned parenthood doesn't deserve federal funding and the potential government shutdown is worthwhile. and so, now she has a real political question to decide here, is, does she go forward with that argument, or somehow

backtrack? >> congressman maloney, thanks for coming on. we didn't know this was going to be the hot button story, but i am actually stunned. >> it's chilling, it's chilling that, it's manipulative, it's a willful misleading of the facts. i believe they're investigating the wrong person. they should be investigating this person who did the video. the false video. congress -- planned parenthood polls four times better than congress. they're providing needed health care services to 2.7 million people, services that are desperately needed and they are -- this is chilling news, they will stop at nothing -- the video has pled the fifth. he's refusing to testify. they're creating a special committee to investigate planned parenthood. they should create a special committee to investigate what happened and how they created such misleading, negative false tapes to smear a good organization that's providing

needed health care in america. thank you -- i am stunned. i find it chilling, disturbing, almost unbelievable, that little walter was used in that way. >> i do too. i though i was pretty callused about this, was making up something completely and throwing it in the this very emotional question of abortion rights. anyway, today the planned parenthood president cecile richards was called to testify on the video before the house oversight committee hearing. by the way, the people in the committee never help us get to the truth here. let's go. here she is. >> planned parenthood has been in the news recently because of deceptively edited videos released by a group that is dedicated to making abortion illegal. the latest smear campaign is based on efforts by our opponents to entrap our doctors and clinicians into breaking the law and once again our opponents failed. the outrageous accusations leveled against planned parenthood based on heavily doctored videos are offensive and categorically untrue.

zpr let me get to. this story will change overnight, i assume, based upon the mother coming forward. >> yeah, until now, we've had a certain amount of he said/she said about what the videos really represented. planned parenthood and its defenders said they were heavily edited and doctored and its maker zps those who side with them said, no, they represent what planned parenthood actually does. now there's some objective truth here, that shows, at least in this instance, what was portrayed on the video isn't what really happened. >> i think it helps find our way to the truth, congresswoman, that the mother in this case, who is anti-abortion rights, is still coming forth with the truth. it isn't like somebody who's an activist for abortion rights is saying this. it's a mother who delivered a stillborn child and saw the picture of that child used to make a case against abortion

rights. whatever her views are on the subject, it was a fraud. >> it's a stunning news. it shows how far the extreme right will go to manipulate a story that their real goal is to do away with abortion rights and the rights for a woman to choose. they are chipping away in many different ways. and this whole assault on planned parenthood has nothing to do with fetal tissue research, which was a bipartisan effort, supporting this vital research. their real goal is to abolish the right to choose an abortion rights here in america, and defund one of the most successful of basic health care providers for mammograms, pap smear, and referring them to the appropriate place for vital health care services that can save women's lives. this is stunning news. i am chilled to the bone. we should have hearings on this new revelation. and we should get to the facts. planned parenthood says that on the tables, their employees repeatedly turned down offers to entrap them, to trick them into saying that they would illegally

buy fetal tissue. and they kept saying no, even though they were offered ten times the value and ten times this and ten times that, they kept saying that. we should see the tapes in their entirety. we should get to the facts and look at the absolute extreme steps that they have taken to deceive the american public in their efforts to roll back and defund a major health care provider in america. >> this reminds me of the video who puts information out there, evidence, to convict somebody he believes is guilty, so i'll use the evidence against him. i want to thank you both for coming on. anne gearan, a great reporter. coming up, is donald trump planning on sticking in the presidential race to the critical caucuses and primaries or will he pull the rip kord and get out of this thing before he has to face actual voters. will the guy who hates losers risk being one himself, really? and that's next. plus, bill clinton is ready to hit the campaign trail for wife, hillary. will his popularity help her get

her numbers back up? and the final year of the nixon tapes. historian doug brinkley as comes here and he has the complete unvarnished account of life inside the nixon oval office as his presidency started its meltdown. and let me start with a young me, too, a young bill clinton. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

>> gabe gutierrez, thank you. welcome back to "hardball." there's a big debate now about the future of donald trump's presidential campaign. if his decline in the polls continues, will he even face voters or pull the rip cord and get out of the race altogether? trump is still struggling with the fault of those cattish remarks he made about carly fiorina's looks. he's fallen seven points according to polling average, that's roughly a quarter of his entire support in just two weeks. he's come from 30 down to 23.

noted columnist joe nah sierra says trump will be out before the first vote has ever come. quote, all his life, trump has had a deep need to be perceived as a winner, the word winner in quotes. that's why, ultimately, i don't think he'll ever put himself at the mercy of actual voters in a primary. he'll be out before iowa. you read it here first. well, robert costa, national republican reporter with "the washington post," michael steele was rnc chair. robert, you're with the guy all the time. i know from conversations with him he's not exactly in a mood to commit suicide, harry caray, if he see he's going to blow it, i don't think he wants to face it. but that was a while before this whole something started. is he now so caught up with the that he might be president or at least the nominee of the party, that nothing will stop him except the rejection of the voters? >> he wants to win and his friends have always said, if he starts to fall behind in the polls, he may get out. if you look at his moves, this is someone for now who is certainly in it to win it.

>> is he spending the money necessary to win in iowa? >> not on ads, not on buys, but when it comes to grassroots infrastructure, he is spending the money. doesn't have many aides around him. spends most of his money on his private plane, but he has a ground game. >> anyway, nbc's matt lauer asked trump about his campaign stalling. here's trump. >> you know, this is going to be an ebb and flow. i'm not saying -- how can i continue to lead by such wide margin. >> right. >> it's an ebb and flow, but i'm leading in every single poll. can i keep that going? i'll try. >> do you have the stomach to stick this out? >> i'm a practical person if if i think for some reason it's not going to work, i'd go back to my business, there's no question about that. but right now i think it's working very, very well. >> "new york times" columnist, magazine columnist, or actually correspondent, mark leibovich tailed trump extensively for his new piece that's coming out. he saw a lot of swagger, but

also seeds of doubt. i asked him whether he had ever experienced self-doubt, yes, i think more than people would think, trump said. i don't want to talk about it, because, you know, probably more than people would think. i understand how life can go. things can happen. ron reagan, the thought this there is that, you know, what, he'll sense it's falling apart, he'll get out like nixon. this ain't anything he wants to face. actually, i don't think he's the kind of guy to give concession speeches night after night. thoughts? >> i question whether he's really running for president at all, or if he's just doing this as a sort of ego gratification exercise. but i think joe nasierra is a very astute judge of his character. and you heard trump say it himself, as long as this is working, he's practical guy, as long as this is working. and what does it mean to be working for donald trump? it means he can stand up on television and say he's winning in all the polls or perhaps later that he's won primaries,

but if he's not winning in the polls anymore, if he can't win primaries, i think the practical donald trump is going to decide fst it's over for me, it's not doing me any good, and i'll just go on to the next thing. >> you know, michael, you know what i know. we all know, we're trying to figure this guy out, but he's unique because the way he talks, he talks like a rock star. i've got this one-hit wonder, it may want last. this album was good, i don't know about the next one. i've never a politician to say, if it's not looking good, i'll get the hell out of this thing. politicians are in it for the game, for the win, the loss, all the way. they don't quit. he talks about, well, this may not be my number, that may not be my thing. that still separates him. >> still affirms him as someone who's not a politician. and i think ron and robert are right in their analysis of where trump is. but overall, we need to stop trying to psychoanalyze the man. he's a very straight up guy. you see what he's about. and everyone gets that this is his effort this time, and whether or not it ends is going

to be on him. >> did you think that tax thing he threw out there, that pander bear for the american people -- tax cuts for everybody! >> well, let me tell you -- >> the corporate number's going down to nothing. the average person is going to pay -- even the guys with the so-called carried interest characters, they don't have to pay anything. where's the money coming from. >> let me tell you what the practical outcome of this. this is about breaking through the ceiling that he has now hit. you showed at the beginning of the segment how the numbers have fallen and how they've now plateaued. you've got to break through that. this does it. the average joe out there is saying, $25,000, no taxes, i'm in! >> and he's going to buy this -- like he's buying the fact obama's from borneo. he's going to buy the fact that the wall is going to keep the mexicans out. you keep out trump? who can do it. rand paul is trying to breathe some life into his own campaign by attacking trump. let's watch something close to a death rattle here. >> how did we get the race for the most important office in the free world to sink to such depths and how can anyone in my

part think that this clown is fit to be president. by no mention am i finished. i'm just getting started. >> here's trump's response. prediction, rand paul has been driven out of the race by my statements about him. i hope when rand paul gets out of the race, he is at 1%. his supporters come over to me. i will do a much better job for them. the headlines are getting worse for paul. one of rand paul's super pac has gone dark. so one thing is, it's like all the -- what was that called? that old agatha christie play, ten little indians, where you would go to this house, and one after another, people would get murdered, nobody knew who did it. you had scott walker, bye-bye, maybe bye-bye the guy, rand paul, the libertarian. maybe he'll win out of attrition.

he'll be the last guy in the race. >> i don't think that donald trump is really the story here. i have to say, i know we've been talking about him, you know obsessively the last few weeks. >> give me another, brother. >> it's not donald trump, really. the real story here is the supposedly strong republican field and the deep bench and all that kind of stuff, cannot content with donald trump. and they're asking to be president of the united states, these people. and they can't deal with donald trump, for god's sake. >> robert costa, i want to hear from you on this. it does seem an uneven field that trump even as he makes clownish moves like making fun of people's faces, which is almost unimaginable in american politics, it's gotten pretty low, but not that low. and making fun of john mccain's war record and stuff, making fun of megyn kelly's questions, it does seem like he does just keep bobbling up, bobbling up to the top of the surface of water. your thoughts? >> my thought, if senator paul gets out of this race, a lot of

people are going to right, it was because of donald trump. but as a reporter, i've been reporting on pall for two years. this campaign has never caught on with the ron paul coalition. those libertarians that supported his father, have been lukewarm on the son. that has hurt paul for the start. he's never caught fire with that part of the liberty base of the gop. >> let's talk about the ceiling. you're talking about his ceiling. can he get that ceiling to go up, because of tax offers to people? really santa claus type offers. according to a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll, donald trump is the most popular figure in america right now. 25% of the country has a positive view of trump. 58% holds a negative view. what the undecided is obviously the rest. three out of five people don't like the guy. what's his ceiling. >> but it's a national poll. it's not a reflection of what's going on inside the gop or actually going to be voting in three months on who the nominee is going to be.

that's why national polls don't really matter at this point in predicting what donald trump -- >> so republican voters can be bought with a bogus tax offer? >> it's not that republican voters can be bought with a vote, it goes back to what ron was just saying about trump and his popularity. it's -- his problem is not with the -- you know, the structure of things, it's with the base of the party. i mean, the party's problem is not trump. it is the base. >> okay -- let me have a little fight you here. let me have a little fun. you don't call this pandering when he says, no one makes under $50,000, no more taxes, bye-bye. you get a note from the irs saying, "you win." nobody's going to pay over 25% income tax. >> okay. >> nobody's going to pay over 15% corporate tax. >> okay. >> and what happens to the federal debt? >> it obviously goes up. >> thank you. a lot. anyway, robert costa, michael steele, ron reagan. boy, hat trick. up next, the final batch of the nixon tapes. presidential historian doug brinkley takes us inside the oval office during the are final climatic months of the nixon presidency.

these tapes are public thanks to this book. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. welcome back to "hardball." by his second inauguration in 1973, richard nixon had achieved what few presidents could ever dream of, a landslide re-election with over 60% of the popular vote. less than two years later, he became the first president in history to resign. nixon's fate was sealed in part because he used a secret taping system to capture almost 4,000 hours of his own private conversations. now, historian douglas brinkley has collaborated with nixon tape expert luke nikter on his second volume about those white house recordings. "the nixon tapes: 1973," which is out this month, assembled from the final batch of nixon tapes released in 2013, it is an inside look of an embattled president. joining me now, douglas brinkley. douglas, let's take a look at

this. after bringing the vietnam war to a close in 1973, richard nixon said he had achieved, quote, peace with honor. behind the scenes, nixon was still playing hardball with the north vietnamese over the release of p.o.w. saying if north vietnamese dragged its feet, he would not agree itself. here's nixon in a conversation with henry kissinger just one month after signing the peace accords. >> what do you make of that, douglas? whether he cares about agreement or certainly doesn't care about the wording of it much. >> no, you know, the paris peace accord happened in the big provision nixon was worried about was getting those p.o.w.s released. it was signed january 27th of 1973. he wanted their names and locations. he had secretary of state rogers

deal with 12 countries finding these p.o.w.s. and no matter what, he'll go right back to war if he doesn't get them released, because for nixon, he didn't like the defense department a whole lot. he didn't like the anti-war left, but he did care about the troops, and particularly wanted to be seen as the person who brought those p.o.w.s home. by may, he throws maybe only the good event of that whole spring was the p.o.w.s coming to the white house, 600 of them in may, and nixon was able to shake hands and greet them all. >> well, in his testimony, devastating testimony, former white house council john dean linked the watergate break-in to the nixon white house. but dean had previously been a loyal soldier to the president. you can hear it in the tapes. just five days before, he famously warned nixon there was a cancer growing in the presidency in '73. he was anything but doom and gloom with the president. in fact, he said that nixon would beat the watergate wrap. here he is saying that. >> and douglas, the president

>> and douglas, the president nixon all along knew about the watergate cover-up. he was leading it. >> well, that's right. in fact, dean had 35 conversations with nixon about watergate cover-up-related issues. but that's a tricky moment you just played, chris. because you see dean as having to be the lawyer, if you like, as richard nixon, at the same time he's doing investigations, he's finding a lot of unsavory things going on. and nixon wanted a d-report to kind of pull it all together. and as we know, dean decides not to cooperate with nixon, but to

cooperate with the watergate committee. >> but the time he was telling nixon not to worry, nothing had leaked anything to the white house from the break-in or the cover-up, was he, in fact, already working with the feds, with the fbi? >> it's a tight call there. when's clear is that, you know, that dean may know these conversations are being taped and he's often saying things that would make it seem he's still working with nixon, but then switching. we just don't know. you could take dean at his word or be a conspiracy theorist. roger stone and a group of people think dean was come police us the during this period. >> in may of 1973, nixon confined to his chief of staff he was considering resigning. this was a full 15 months before he actually did it. let's listen to the early nixon fears about having to quit. >> well, you know, you have to

>> well, you know, you have to identify with nixon there. the empathy, if you have any empathy for nixon, it's got to -- it was like the chinese water torture of old. one thing after another, telling him he's finished, that he would like to get it over, it looks like there. >> that's right. and you can hear it in his voice, chris. that's where the tapes are interesting to listen to, hot just read the transcripts. you can just see he's being beaten on all sides.

he really, i think, is thinking about resigning early so he didn't have to go through a whole year of what he ended up going through. we already know lyndon johnson stepped down the '68 over pressures from vietnam and i think nixon was toying with the idea there, what you just played. and you could start feeling his administration unraveling in this period. >> i love looking at documents like that. first of all, they're primary documents your putting out, this is the real deal. and you never know when you're going to come across something that just gets to you, that's a wow. anyway, congratulations again on another great book. the book, "the nixon tapes: 1973," it's a biggy. coming up, the big dog hits the trail. elvis is back. bill clinton plans on campaigning hard now for hillary. this will be a lot more fun now, don't you agree? you're watching "hardball," the plaux.

welcome back to "hardball." after months of making himself scarce, form president bill clinton is starting to speak up and hit the road on behalf of his wife, democratic front-runner, hillary clinton. here's the former front-runner on cnbc discussing hillary's e-mail controversy just yesterday. >> it really is similar to the strategy that the republicans

employed against me with white water. but i'm glad it happened in 2015 instead of 2016. and i believe it will burn itself out. what the american people have to think of is this. a few months ago, she was still the most admired person in public life in america. why? because she was covered, because of the work she did. she'd been around a long time, people knew that she's on the level, she gets up every day and tries to do a good job. then all of a sudden, the only thing that matters is e-mails. what exactly does it matter? i trust the american people. they'll get this. they'll work through it. they'll understand they're being sent a heavy signal, we don't want to run against this woman. >> as hillary clinton's poll numbers continue to erode and bernie sanders' surges, and vice president biden signals he may join the democratic field, the associated press reports that bill clinton is ready to take on a more public role in his wife's second bid for the white house. he's already filled in for her at fund-raisers in chicago.

he will raise more money for the campaign in atlanta and kansas city later this week, before headlining a dinner for the west virginia democratic party on this friday. next week, he'll court donors outside of detroit. but will bill's road show overshadow the candidate or will he be her best advocate? jonathan cha tham, liz mair is a republican strategist, cornell bell is a republican pollster. so how do we know or should we think this is the cavalry charging in to save the vulnerable candidate or is this already planned? you know what i think. >> i think there's a maximum of two people who know the answer to that question. maximum. bill clinton and hillary clinton. >> and what would the bystander, the smart, informed commentator think is a foot here? >> if you go back and look at the history of the 2008 election was, it was bill clinton acting largely on his own, completely against or outside of the advice of any --

>> but this is all fund-raising work he's got tasked now. who's tasked him? >> sometimes nobody tasked him. >> who assigned him to go to these fund-raisers? >> the clinton campaign surely has. >> right at the time cornell, that the numbers for hillary are fading, i think just because of erosion, it's just a natural whatever, sort of like water erosion, i don't think e-mails connected to the success of bernie sanders. i think they're unrelated. i think bernie sanders is appealing to nostalgia, to some extent, to romance, to simplicity. go left, young man. but i think hillary's problems are this chronic thing between her and the press and the vulnerability the clintons have to transparency, even on things that don't matter. that they're innocent of.

there was no guilt in white water. there was no real guilt in travelgate and all these things were just sort of like, will we get the evidence or not? they say, now, you won't, then you get it, and there's nothing there. this is an old pattern. >> look, i'm a campaign hack frp a campaign standpoint, you've got to balance the ups with the downs. the upside is, as president obama said, bill clinton is explainer in chief. no one's better at explaining stuff than bill clinton. >> do you think he'll become her explainer on e-mail? >> and he's also someone that 81% of demes have a favorable opinion of him. he is one of the best campaigners we have had in three or four decades. i think you never want a candidate to be overshadowed by the people around you. but i think at the same time, you got to look, we need someone who can cut through -- >> does this make bill clinton a target for his old behavior? >> possibly, but i think just to add to what you said, i think, actually, if you're hillary clinton, you do want to be overshadowed by bill clinton, but she's a manifestly crap candidate. i'm sorry. >> what? >> she's terrible! i didn't swear, i think we're good.

>> you're being sarcastic? >> no, i'm being serious. >> you're saying it's good to be overshadowed because you can't do the job yourself -- >> everybody likes bill clinton. >> they like him now. >> it doesn't matter. the more people associate her with somebody they like, as opposed to her -- >> well, explain -- >> that's the only hope they've got. >> why do people like bill clinton? i think, first of all, to get a couple of numbers straight, hillary clinton's popularity and based on all the polls, very recent polls, are just about the same as joe biden's. everybody just says, everybody likes joe biden, day don't like hillary clinton. that's not true. it's exactly the same. we should at least get the facts straight. hillary clinton is very lure, so is obama and so is joe biden. none of them are not popular. why is bill clinton as perceived as being the happy guy, the guy that everybody likes, where, in fact, i'm not sure there's a big difference. >> his fundamental strength is he was president for eight years

and the economy was good and conditions were good and people remember that fondly. that's a very powerful strength they can tap into and will continue to tap into, all the way through her campaign if she's nominated, which i expect she will be. >> but also, i mean, talking about numbers, that 81% you cited, that's a high number. a lot of this is driven by nostalgia and people remembering things that aren't necessarily 100% accurate about the clinton years. but that doesn't matter. that's all they've got to go on at this point. she is not an appealing person. she is not doing a good job -- she's not, she's not. that's why bernie sanders -- >> i won't go that far, but bill clinton is an authentic character that people like. he passed that test like george bush did. >> this is absolutely without attitude. they have a wonderful tag team way of helping each other out. when one gets in trouble, the other vouches for them and they do it both ways. stand by your man, tammy wynette, the whole thing worked, and he's doing that for her now. the roundtable is staking with us. up next, rush limbaugh calls news of water on mars part of a leftist agenda. hmm. you've got to untangle that one.

we'll be back in a minute to figure that one out. he sees trouble on mars. "hardball," the place for politics. to help save wildlife affected by oil spills, rescue workers have opened up a lot of dawn. they rely on it because it's tough on grease... yet gentle. but even they'll tell you, dawn helps open... something even bigger. go to facebook.com, dawn saves wildlife. find out how the little things you do, can make a big difference.

>>. well, last night on the "late show" with steve colbert, first lady michelle obama extolled on the real-life luxuries she's missed while living in the white house. let's take a listen. >> i also want to do little things like, you know, open a window. i mean --

>> i'm sorry -- >> i want to go to target! i want to drive! >> i'm sorry, first lady, you don't have security clearance to open a window. >> i can't open my windows. i really can't. the window opens if i press it in the car, everybody's like, oh, my god, what was that? one day -- >> we'll get you a canister of fresh air, madame first lady. >> one day, as a treat, my lead agent let me have the windows open on the way to camp david. it was like five minutes out, he's like, windows open, enjoy it! i was like, thanks, allen. >> that personality is way underused. she's fabulous. and we'll be right back.

invaders from mars, capturing humans at will for their own sinister purposes, turning them into diabolical instruments of destruction. >> welcome to mars. >> you got a lot of nerve showing your face around here. >> look who's talking. >> ahh! >> okay, let's do the math. i got to figure out how to grow four years worth of food here on a planet where nothing grows. but if i can't figure out how to make contact with nasa, none of this matters anyway. >> we're back. the question is, what is up there on mars, has long obsessed scientists and just about everyone, including scientists. yesterday, came an stunning announcement from nasa, the discovery that there was flowing water on the red planet. >> the discover we're going to talk about today really is most exciting because it suggests that it would be possible for

there to be life today on mars. >> well, one person apparently not so impressed, at least. invaders from mars. capturing humans at will for their own sinister purposes. turning them into diabolical instruments of destruction. >> welcome to mars. >> you got a lot of nerve showing your face around here. >> look who's talking. >> okay. let's do the math. i got to figure out how to grow four years worth of food here on a planet where nothing grows. but if i can't figure out a way to make contact with nasa, none of this matters anyway. >> wow.

we're back. the question is, what is up there on mars has long obsessed scientists and just about everyone. yesterday came announcement about a major discovery by nasa, evidence there is flowing water on the red planet. >> the discovery we're going to talk about today really is most exciting because it suggests that it would be possible for there to be life today on mars. >> one person apparently not so impressed at least not happily something to do with global warming and maybe there was once an advanced civilization. tell me, what is he trying to say? he said the point is, i still didn't hear the point. are we wrong to do anthropology to study bones of ancient

dinosaurs? we'd like to know who was here millions of years ago and who was out there and learn from learning. what is wrong with discovery? he seems to have a problem with discovery. >> well, chris, as i'm sure you know and are pretending not to know, discovery of water on mars leads to socialism and then the total abolition of heterosexual marriage. this has been known on the left for years. really we're right on schedule. >> what's this fear of knowledge? we want to know what's on mars? we used to think the moon was, we'd kid about it being made of cheese. we didn't know. >> conservatives in general have grown more and more distrustful in polls of science over the course of the last four decades. they used to be more trusting than liberals now they're much less. specifically with global warming what they have is a conspiracy theory. they don't have the an alternative scientific theory. >> whether he did it start? >> for more than 20 years. >> old people note this isn't true. old people starting with that,

with me working later, know that science won world war ii in the end because the atom bomb won the war in the end. it put a couple men on the moon. it did all kinds i have discoveries in ending diseases like polio. science has worked for mankind across account board. when did it become the enemy of the hard right. >> i don't think it's just the enemy of the hard right. we're in a period in society where there are a lot of people skeptical of science and discovery in general. when we had the debate about vaccines and looking at the resurgence of awful illnesses a lot of that was center centered in very, very liberal enclaves of california into they were afraid to get their kids vaccinated. >> they believe it's going to give them autism. i think we've reached a place in society where a lot of people don't prioritize discovery or science anymore. remember in the 2012 election how much newt gingrich was derided for all of his talk about moon bases and space exploration. >> that's common sense.

>> that's symptomatic of something broader. it's unfortunate. i grew up in a world where kids wanted to be astronauts how many kids say that now. >> everybody gets -- can i get one point? personal interest -- personal interest. if you discover you've got a bad diagnosis from a doctor, the first thing most people do is go to the best people they can. if they've got resources, who is the best oncologist, the best guy on this. best woman on this. everybody wants the best scientist. they don't say who is the craziest person with a theory. they go to the best person they can find. >> something has changed centered on the right. if you go back a couple decades, nixon started the epa. this was happening -- what's happening right now is unique to the conservatives and even more conservative than conservatives in europe. right now, you have a party where almost a majority of them

think obama is a muslim and they deny science. there's something else going on. >> there's scientific evidence that he's a foreigner? >> there's no scientific evidence. >> now chris will have to bring donald trump on. >> no. >> with his birth certificate stuff, right? >> it's not just -- he's a legitimately elected president. if you keep saying he's not, you've got a mental problem. roundtable tonight. when we come back let me finish with a picture of the good old days campaigning with a young bill clinton.

let me finish tonight with this picture that msnbc's been running in newspapers and magazines around the country. it was a happy time as you can see. governor bill clinton has just accepted the democratic presidential nomination in new york. he and al gore are barnstorming through texas and things could not be more exciting. it's one of those moments when it's not at all clear who is going to win the elections. the debate haven't started. clinton and gore enjoying the post convention high that comes after a presidential nomination. but there are some signs out there. i remember heading for the bus to interview a guy in a local hotel. when i asked him who was going to win, this is in texas, he answered in a way that told me how things are headed. i kind of think those two boys. he just liked the cut of those two young boys from the south. i couldn't tell it wasn't going to be as simple as that. clinton was wondering what bomb the republicans would drop on

him. once again, he hits the campaign trail, this time for hillary. i have to say will never be as hopeful and innocent as it was back then when we were both still so very young. thanks for being with us. all-in with chris hayes starts right now >> tonight on "all in," this is a bigger challenge than we've ever faced. >> from the climate reality project conference in miami an all in" exclusive. >> there has been a very well organized and well funded effort on part of the anti-climate forces. >> tonight, former vice president al gore on everything from the republican party to the democratic fight for 20916. plus, the state of the climate change fight. and why the tide keeps rising, the sinking state of florida. then, the republican war on women. >> i don't think we're g