in that state have reported 13 souls lost their lives today, plus the gunman would make 14. the gunman is said to have been shot after engaging in fire with police who were responding to the shooting. we have also heard the initial 911 calls. to police who exited the college and heard the firing going on. the scene is inactive after the gunman was put down, after it was learned he apparently acted alone. as kate snow reported any number of things on social media. some of them true, some of them will turn out not to be true. but it's a scary situation and, as we keep saying, 14 families

in the pacific northwest are going to get the worse news tonight. jacob soberoff is at the scene. has anybody stopped by to talk to you? >> reporter: i did talk to state trooper bainbridge, brian. this is about as close as any of us are going to get, at least now up to the community college. it's about a mile up the road in this direction. atf, fbi is up here. much of the same information you're hearing there from 30 ro rock. he said he never experienced anything like this in his life, not to this extent. he said not even family members that live up this road are allowed in and out right now, brian. the feeling couldn't be more somber and is in juxtaposition to the setting in oregon. >> i guess you would have to be a retired combat veteran returned police officer to have

any life experience remotely close to the carnage inside that community college room where they responded today. >> remember the man we were talking on the phone a little while ago who had been a veteran and had served overseas and said he survived this today and one other shooting at another campus earlier in his life and had never seen anything as bad as either of those events while he was on tour. so, there's no way to overstate how horrific this scene is. potentially more than 20 injured. those numbers are fluctuating as well. we know 12 are at mercy medical center and several more are at sacred heart medical center. some are still in surgery at this hour. so their families are still being contacted and still getting the news that they're at the hospital. we're pulling for them and

getting statements from everyone you could imagine, brian, pulling for this community, praying for the community. we've heard from members of congress, from all the presidential campaigns have weighed in, everybody, saying virtually the same thing, that their thoughts are with them. we expect president obama to be speaking around 6:30. >> that's the graphic, the little box on the right side of your screen. our cameraman is testing out the shot. that is the white house briefing room. we'll go to it when the president walks in. we have been at this now covering this event -- reports came in four hours ago. as kate pointed out, it's hard to know which of these pictures was taken a while back and has been repeated and which of them are live pictures perhaps.

what a horrendous and scary thing to realize these vehicles don't all have owners anymore. >> no. those were the vehicles at the campus when this horrific tragedy occurred. people were blocking cars from coming in, people who heard the gunshots went out to warn others and said don't drive in here, don't come in here at this time, about 10:30 local time this morning. presumably every car we're seeing inside the parking lot there are people who were already on campus. people like the teacher we just heard from, who was in the classroom next door, heard the shooting begin. the students we've been talking to, who thought it was a car backfiring and then discovered it was actually gunshots. just to recap what we know right now, the numbers are still not firm. perhaps that number will go down if some of those people were

double reported, if they were counted twice accidentally. we may actually have less than -- fewer fatalities than we thought. we just learned a short time ago, brian, that some of those injured, three victims at one local hospital in springfield had 18 to 34 gunshot wounds among them. multiple, multiple gunshot wounds. >> with us on the telephone is councilwoman from the city of roseburg, oregon, victoria hawks. victoria, i'm told you have loved ones in your family who are students at the community college? >> that's true. we have two grandsons that were in attendance today. they were in the library building, which is the nearest thing to snyder hall where the gunshots were. they've been locked down and checked out and then they were sent, like everybody else on buses, and left their vehicles at school because i guess they're checking them all out. >> so everyone close to you has been accounted for and there's

no one in your life unaccounted for? >> that's true. and we're very grateful for that and very sad for those others. this is a small community. the college is about five miles from the center of roseburg, outside the limits. and we have a congrugal group of people in the community, 60,000 or 70,000 and just kind of know everybody. it's almost assured when the list comes out of those killed and those injured that we will know them. know at least one or more. >> i was thinking the same reason roseburg is probably a great place to live, the same reason that people want to live in a place like that will turn out to be a tough thing for you, as it will be when you hear your town name become synonymous with a mass casualty, tragedy. >> that's right.

it's not a group you wish to belong to. yesterday we were commenting how we feel very safe and yet i have said out loud more than once, you never know where this is going to happen anymore. there's no guarantee that any of us are safe. it's a really frightening situation. and i know that's a weapon-free campus. nobody checks but we're on an honor system here. it's just hard to accept that somebody does this to your community. >> weapon-free campus, that's the first we've heard that today. was this a public campaign or municipal policy? >> you know, they're in the county and i'm in the city councillor. i don't know where that came from. it may have just come from the college board, i would suspect.

i hadn't heard about it either until today, to be truthful. it doesn't surprise me. almost completely surrounded by the river. and it makes it very easy to secure the campus as they did, and the people who live near there. there's a residential community along the river as well. and, by the way, if you don't know, the state police station is literally out at the highway, just a mile from the campus. >> yes, we've talked to a couple -- >> they're pretty fast. >> we've talked to a couple of journalists who have been staging out there. that's where people are stopped and it's very important and may

account for the quick response. so nobody in your life is there snont. >> nobody in our family that we know of, to put it that way. two grandsons were there. one is a high school senior. the other is a post high school nursing student. and they are accounted for and one of them is quite shook up, that i have spoken to. and that's to be expected when -- he said his favorite instructor might be the one that was killed. >> what a tragedy. as you say, when dawn breaks tomorrow and we know more about the names, the identities of those who have been lost, it's going to be a tough time to be in a small town community. that's when you feel it the most. councilwoman, thank you very much for being with us.

we've been talking to victoria hawks of the city of rose burg, city council as we said, we're also covering news just into us from the other side of the world and afghanistan, a u.s. c-130 transport plane has apparently gone down near jalalabad. the c-130s carry a big burden. they are four-prop aircraft. they are short take-off and landing aircraft with a huge rear hatch. they do a lot of the light and heavy work. what do you know? >> the c-130 plane crashed at

jalalabad airport overnight. what we don't know is -- these are transport planes, as you mentioned, four-prop plane. they can carry dozens of individuals and also can carry large loads. palatized equipment, vehicles, vehicle parts and whatnot. what we don't know at this point is whether this was transporting people, military personnel, individuals or if it was transporting equipment. you know jalalabad, eastern part of the country, in between kabul and pakistan, a very mountainous area. i've taken off and flown into that airport numerous times. it is very mountainous and windy at times there as well. we have no idea yet what the cause of the crash was or how extensive the damage is. it's all just developing now. the u.s. military i've spoken to in both in kabul and here in this building are scrambling to gather any details that they can. >> courtney, folks might read in the coming hours about how old

some of these air frames are. but at the same time, you and i both know the avionics are new and updated and you and i also know that to a lot of people this is their aircraft of choice. they swear by the c-130. >> absolutely. it's essentially the workhorse of the u.s. military. c-130s are all over the world. they're flying in the united states. they're flying in europe, the middle east and they're flying not just all over the place but all the time. they are truly the workhorse of the u.s. military. and, you know, if you've spent any time in iraq or afghanistan, anywhere the military is operating, you'll see them taking off and landing all the time. >> courtney, thank you. we'll update our audience as more is known about this crash after midnight local time at the jalalabad airport of an american c-130 four-prop transport plane. to the white house briefing room, we will go.

when the president comes out approximately 6:20 eastern, that would put it seven or eight minutes from now. there's the lectern. in the background, cnn -- sorry, nbc's chris jansing. we're getting punchy here. also, we look back at the aerial photos of campus in oregon. a community college campus, 10:38 this morning. the first call went to 911. we have since heard some of those first phone calls. people giving a fairly calm and explicit instructions to the operator to send help. we knew we had a mass casualty event. what we did not know -- in exchange of gunfire. death toll still officially 13. we're hoping that gets brought

downward and the number of wounded kate snow, around 20. >> that's right. umpqua community college will be closed monday not a surprise. they'll keep the campus shut down. they've canceled all student activities for the weekend there. actually, in abundance of caution, portland has also told us -- portland police say they'll be adding extra executor for public schools and recall that's far north from the area they've been talking about in roseburg, a few hours drive north. it often happens in the wake of a tragedy like this. >> happens to be a beautiful part of the world. >> gorgeous. >> gorgeous countryside out there. for most people, it's terrific, rural life. city of manageable size, about 20,000 people. total population that the

community college draws from. and approximately 16,000 and change part-time students. going back to renew, refresh their education, perhaps people who are changing careers. all of it has to be consider aid crime scene. we have seen.

>> by our count he has visited several locations that have mass shootings. he has spoken on five occasions, most recent one chattanooga, tennessee, back in july of this year. before that, it was ovelland park, kansas. before that, it was at the holocaust memorial museum and before that, binghamton, new york. of course, the total list of mass shootings in this country, as everyone knows, is far beyond that. >> with us on the telephone is marilyn kitterman. her son, mccray, was present at the community college and described to her what he witnessed. marilyn, what can you tell us about that? >> well, i heard early this morning, shortly after it happened, from a colleague that there was a possible shooting

and quickly texted my son as he was supposed to be starting class and asked him, have you heard anything? he said mom we're down behind desks. we're hiding. he said that he thought it was a drill. and that it wasn't real but they were being cautious just in case. and i assured him that at that point as a former county commissioner i was able to make some calls and confirm there were at least ten dead at that point and that it was very much was real and he needed to be really careful. we spent the next two very tense hours texting back and forth and talking about what was going on there before i was able to watch him go by on a bus, as they evacuated kids on a bus. at that point it really hit home as to what was going on. >> and you realize now that a lot of parents didn't get the chance to text with their children and you were among the fortunate. >> well, actually, i'm actually here, ending up getting ready to hear the conference from our

sheriff's department, an update. i spoke to one of the firemen and one of his friends, also a firemen, still has not been able to contact their son. they're in a bloind panic. it's about 2 1/2 hours and that's not a good sign. >> i'm sure. i've been thinking about parents in that category all afternoon long and what that must feel like. i suppose there will be a place for them to go and people for them to talk to. but if it is the worst possible news, there is very little comfort. did you learn anything else about the gunman, about what it was like inside? >> well, we have confirmed now that it's a 20-year-old male and i heard secondhand reports that a teacher was shot first and then students.

we have a campus with one way in, one way out. it was right douglas county deputies that, it sounds like, were the first responders. everybody is there now. they were the ones who quickly got down and secured the scene. he is deceased. >> that is the first we heard that it was specifically a sheriff's deputy who took the shot that took the life of this gunman. we assume the gunman was a fellow student. we assume he was deeply troubled by something to have brought this about. what's being done for -- do you feel like the community is being cared for enough? >> oh, i'm sure it is. it's a tight-knit community in a small, rural town. so, yeah, there will be a lot of support. as you said it doesn't really matter if it was your child. >> yeah. >> it will just take some time. the campus will be closed until monday. they've suspended all activities. it's an active crime investigation scene. all the vehicles are still

there. there's also quite a large community of people who live down that road who also can't go home or out. and so they're hoping to have those guys back in their homes by this afternoon. but no students back on campus until monday when classes will resume. also, an interesting perspective my husband had, he said in the good old days we just tore those buildings down. we just took them down. >> yeah. i understand. marilyn kittleman, thank you very much for being with us from rose burg, oregon. we now switch across the country to the east, to the white house briefing room. behind the blue door is the president of the united states. his remarks have been brought out to the podium and we'll hear from the president on this latest, terrible tragedy, this mass casualty event at a community college. as kate reported, as we've said this afternoon, this is the

seventh time he has been forced to talk about a killing, a mass casualty event in this type of place in the years since he has been president. it certainly has been talked about enough but very little has been done in the wake of these incidents. again, we should be about 10 seconds away from the president emerging. his remarks scheduled for one minute ago. here is the president. >> this time in a community college in oregon. that means there are more american families, moms, dads, children whose lives have been

changed forever. another community stunned with grief and communities across the country forced to relieve their own anguish and parents across the country who are scared because they know it might have been their families or their children. i have been to rose burg, oregon. there are really good people there. i want to thank all the first responders whose bravery likely saved some lives today. federal law enforcement has been on the scene in a supporting role and we have offered to stay and help as much as roseburg needs for as long as they need. in the coming days we'll learn about the victims, young men and women who were studying, learning and working hard with their eyes set on the future, their dreams on what they could make of their lives. and america will wrap everyone

who is grieving with our prayers and our love. but as i said just a few months ago, and i said a few months before that, and i said each time we see one of these mass shootings, our thoughts and prayers are not enough. it's not enough. it does not capture the heartache and grief and anger that we should feel. and it does nothing to prevent this carnage from being inflicted some place else in america. next week or a couple of months from now. we don't yet know why this individual did what he did.

regardless of what they think their motivations may be, it's hard to know what is in these people's minds. we are not the only country on earth with people with mental illness or who want to do harm to other people. we are the only country on earth that sees these kinds of mass shootings every few months. in interviews earlier, i said this is the one nation on earth in which we do not have common sense gun safety laws even in the face of repeated mass killings. and later that day, there was a

mass shooting at a movie theater in lafayette, louisiana. that day. somehow this has become routine. the reporting is routine. my response here at this podium ends up being routine. the conversation in the aftermath of it. we've become numb to this. we talked about this after columbine and blacksburg, after tucson, after newtown, after aurora, after charleston. it cannot be this easy for someone who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun. what's become routine, of course, is the response to those

who are opposed to any gun control legislation. fewer gun safety laws, i'm sure the press is ramped up. does anybody really believe that? there are scores of responsible gun owners in this country. they know that's not true. we know because of the polling that says the majority of americans understand we should be changing these laws, including the majority of responsible, law-abiding gun owners. there is a gun for roughly every man, woman and child in america. so how can you, with a straight face, make the argument that more guns will make us safer?

we know that states with the most gun laws tend to have the fewest gun deaths. so the notion that gun laws don't work or just will make it harder for law-abiding citizens and criminals will still get their guns, it's not born out by the evidence. we know that other countries in response to one mass shooting have been able to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings. friends of ours, allies of ours, great britain. australia. countries like ours. so we know there are ways to prevent it. what's also routine, of course, is that somebody somewhere will comment and say, obama

politicized this issue. well, this is something we should politicize. i would ask news organizations, because i won't put these facts forward. have news organizations tally up the number of americans who have been killed through terrorist attacks over the last decade and the number of americans who have been killed by gun violence and post those side by side on your news reports. this won't be information coming from me. it will be coming from you. we spent over $1 trillion and passed countless laws and devote entire agencies to preventing terrorist attacks on our soil, and rightfully so. and yet we have a congress that

explicitly blocks us from even collecting data on how we could potentially reduce gun deaths. how can that be? we collectively are answerable to those families who lose their loved ones because of our inaction. when americans are killed in mine disasters, we work to make mines safer. when americans are killed in floods and hurricanes, we make communities safer. when roads are unsafe, we fix them.

to reduce auto fatalities. we have seat belt laws because we know it saves lives. the notion that gun violence is somehow different, that our freedom and our constitution prohibits any modest regulation of how we use a deadly weapon when there are law-abiding gun owners all across the country who could hunt and protect their families and do everything they do under such regulations.

so those of us who are lucky enough to hug our kids closer are thinking about the families who aren't so fortunate. i would ask the american people to think about how they can get our government to change these laws. and to save lives and to let young people grow up. that will require a change of politics on this issue. and it will require that the american people individually, whether you are a democrat or a republican, or an independent, when you decide to vote for somebody you're making a determination as to whether this cause of continuing death for innocent people should be a relevant factor in your

decision. you should expect your officials to reflect your views. i would particularly ask america's gun owners who are using those guns properly, safely, to hunt, for sport, for protecting their families to think about whether your views are properly being represented by the organization that port -- suggests it's speaking for you.

this is not something i can do by myself. i have to have a congress and state lengt legislators and governors who are willing to work with me on this. i hope and pray that i don't have to come out again during my tenure as president to offer my condolences to families in these circumstances. based on my experience as president, i can't guarantee that. and that's terrible to say. and it can change. may god bless the memories of those who were killed today. may he bring comfort to their

families and courage to the injured as they fight their way back. and may he give us the strength to come together and find the courage to change. thank you. >> kate snow, i don't think we've ever seen him like that. >> no, no. i mean, this is clearly a president who is fed up. a president in his final year in office. he spoke, in july, to the bbc, bri brian, and said that he is most frustrated and most stymied by the fact that he hasn't been able, in his words, to pass sufficient, common sense gun safety laws. he just referred to it there in his remarks. you heard him say our prayers, our thoughts are not enough. it's not enough. his own words carry more weight than i can describe. but the mood of that, the tenor of that was something else. >> and he was just angry.

kelly o'donnell is up on the hill. kelly, a lot of his anger comes where you are. not that it's your fault. but the lawmakers in washington. >> reporter: and, brian, since the newtown tragedy over the last few years, on a weekly basis, for example, we will see on the senate floor the srnts from connecticut, murphy and bloomenthal and they will show photos of persons who have been killed by gun violence anywhere across the country. that has become a routine part of the senate floor, as the president was indicating, these routine reactions that happen. there is a churning that takes place on capitol hill on a regular basis over this issue. but not since april of 2013 has it reached a point where there was actual legislation that was sort of grinding through the process. you'll remember at that time it was about expanded background checks and there was a lot of

thought that perhaps the sort of cumulative effect of having one of their own, gabriel giffords, shot and several others killed in tucson, having the tragedy of children murdered would be enough. what we hear from lawmakers are frequent arguments rooted in a lot of different things. there are cultural views in america, regional differences and views over what is the proper role for government? should more be done to deal with issues of mental health as opposed to gun laws? these are frequent debates. the hardened lines are there. there is the involvement of the gun lobby. there are also organizations that want to see, as the president referred to it, modest regulation that also have a force here, and emotion, and bring life to this issue by being the family members and the loved ones. but it is very difficult for lawmakers to take this on. and those that have stepped forward in the past meet a very big challenge when they're up

for re-election. you know, the background check issue of a few years ago, pat tumi, republican of pennsylvania, joe mansion, democrat of west virginia. people from gun states from two parties trying to work it out. they paid a bit of a political price themselves and could not get it done. is the environment any different here when they're going into a presidential year, re-election year for congress? hard to imagine the political will exists even with strong words from the president. brian? >> kelly, well put. if it wasn't a member of congress getting shot that did it, would it be a classroom full of little kids? would it be a community college full of older students? we don't know. but kate snow, that was some of the most english i've heard spoken from that podium and the most plain language i've ever heard in that room fwl it look like he was speaking extemporasm

noeusly, too. he didn't have prepared remarks and at times it looked like he had to stop to reduce the emotion in his voice. you heard him say -- the president said -- he talked about those on the other side and said they will say we need more guns, that we needless gun control and said incredulously, does anyone really believe that? it was really some of the strongest language i think we've heard from this president. he is clearly frustrated and he promised to come back every time there's another incident. i'm sure he means that. i'm sure he will appear before our cameras every time there's another mass shooting. >> it's become a sad fact of his life and his job. to chris matthews, in washington. chris? >> well, i mean, i think we're an extraordinary country in terms of gun violence. just looking at our major political figures, the 20th century, teddy roosevelt was shot at, franklin roosevelt, harry truman shot at. of course, john kennedy killed. ronald reagan, jerry ford shot

at twice. political assassinations but these are -- you couldn't stop a political assassination if someone wants to spend months figuring out how to do something and get ahold of a firearm, they're going to do it. same with organized criminals, regular street criminals. when there's an impulse killing, when it's a kid, a person who normally wouldn't be considered a criminal, goes tout look for a gun it's pretty darn easy. back in 1966, i remember growing up with the texas tower shooter. the shooter at the university of texas at austin. that was considered weird behavior. an oddity of history that someone would climb -- charles whitman would climb up a tower and begin shooting people. now it's not considered weird. it's considered routine. and that's what's changed. columbine, texas -- i mean virginia tech. my god, sandy hook. these are all iconic places. as you said in the reporting a couple of hours ago, that now

umpqua will be one of those names. we will have them peck peppered throughout our history. i'm sure, as the president said, they're putting together a press release. it's not the gun owner. it's not the person who knows what they're doing for hunt iin or even second amendment rights. everybody has a right to own a gun to protect themselves from the government. fine. they had a longstanding slogan there, a motto really. guns don't kill people. people kill people. that should say to the nra people and its members and supporters, let's make sure that the wrong people don't get guns. it's not about the use of a firearm. it's getting into the hands of people that shouldn't be using a firearm sbchlt that means background checks. that's where the line should be. keeping the guns out of the hands of people with mental, emotional problems or, in any way that they suggest through

their criminal history that they shouldn't be getting a gun in their hands. that should be in the interest of every gun owner, that they have a community of people that are trusted to have guns. >> chris, as angry as we've seen an american president -- >> i think so. >> -- in that room? >> that is the point that he went beyond to talk about. he is a cool president, cool as sinatra sometimes. he wasn't cool today. responsible for the society that they are elected to lead. and he is elected to lead our society. yet our society is out of hand. out of control. and these killings are killings by people who have, until that time, been innocence themselves. they have mental and emotional problems and go out and kill everybody in sight because of something that breaks in them. we can keep the guns out of some

of all those people, not all of them. we're not even trying. this is the thing. he made the point. we have a problem with poisoning we check the tuna before it goes in the can. we have a problem with bridges we check them. if we sense a problem, we check them. he makes the point that we do, as a society, try to protect ourselves from dangers. in this case, it's the only case where we say let it be. this is the way we like it. the nra is saying this is as good as it gets. let the kids have the guns. 20 years old wants to shoot up everybody at a campus, innocence all around, classroom by classroom, putting double digit numbers of rounds in each of the victims. that's the best we can do. let it roll. that is the hardest argument in the would world to say this is as good as it gets. that's the defense. defensive position. i know how they do this, wait a couple of days until it cools down. most people think about something else to worry about. maybe that transport plane

getting shot down, whatever happened in afghanistan, something bad for us. they'll think about something else. they'll think about the kids getting a lunch packed for school and change their mind and think about other things. meanwhile the real gun nuts are out there, thinking about nothing else but protecting their notion of the second amendment. that's the problem. they never change the subject. two or three weeks from now, nra puts out a press release that says something along the lines that nullifies people and we go back to sleep again. the president didn't sound like he wanted to go back to sleep. >> chris matthews, whose time slot begins in about 15 minutes. he will take over at the top of the hour. offering a needed perspective. chris jansing, i suppose, can do the same thing. you've covered this president for a while. you have a front row seat that sometimes enables us to get the atmospherics in the room. what was it like from there? >> intense.

and i think you hit it on the head. i don't know when we've seen the president this angry. we know he has been frustrated about gun violence in this country. he has spoken about it before. i don't know if the television cameras captured it. there were several times when he was trembling, when he seemed to catch in his throat words. this combination, i think, of emotion that he talked about, you know, hugging your child close tonight. that comes from being a father. that also comes, frankly, from being someone who has travelled to many of the places where there has been gun violence and who has talked to the parents and talked to the daughters and sons and comforted the families. but i think this was also a part of that frustration you heard was this call to arms. telling american voters, you're going to have to do this. you're going to have to decide whether or not the person you vote for, where they stand on this issue. gun owners, particularly, shouting out to them saying all of you who this is a white house

that felt very strongly in the aftermath of the shooting in newtown. what he could be, it calls, modest change. something that would put us more in line as he has said with other civilized countries. in this case it would have been the opportunity to close the gun show loophole. of course, that didn't happen. the atmosphere in this room was probably one of the most intense i've ever seen. i've also seen him even before i came here to the white house, i have seen him give eulogies. i have seen him travel to auditoriums, to places where people have died. i've seen him, you know, take on that role of comforter in chief and while i sensed a little bit of that, mostly what i saw tonight was the anger and the

frustration unlike anything i've seen or certainly felt from just a few feet away, brian. >> chris jansing from her seat in the front row in the white house briefing room in the west wing. visibly angry and shaken president obama. we'll take a break in our coverage. we'll be right back after this. dvr at the dmv. change channels while he changes pants. you don't have to be a couch potato, you can be a train potato! and let them watch all the shows they love, inside the ride that you really kind of hate. introducing the all in one plan. only from directv and at&t. for medicare. the annual enrollment period is now open. now is the time to find the coverage that's right for you ...at the right price. the way to do that is to explore your options. you can spend hours doing that yourself ...

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(road noise) what's happening here... is not normal, it's extraordinary. 291 people, 350 tons, 186 miles per hour... you're not sure what's on the other side to that time after you land. but momentum pushes you forward. you are a test pilot, breaking through where others broke. this is why you take off. same reason the pioneers before you went in canoes and covered wagons, with wild eyes and big fevered dreams and it's why we're with you. 80 thousand people now...

on the ground. in the air. engines on. because there is no stop in us. or you. only go. right now i can imagine the press release is being cranked out. we need more guns, they'll argue. fewer gun safety laws. does anybody really believe that? there are scores of responsible gun owners in this country. they know that's not true. >> as angry as i think any of us has ever seen him after this latest mass casualty shooting at

a community college in a beautiful part of the state of oregon. msnbc's jacob soberoff is outside, as close as media can get, we should say. what are you seeing transpire? >> reporter: just as you said, i'm as close as just about anybody is going to get up to umpqua community college. it's a mile up that road in, as you said, an inkred icredibly beautiful community that must feel completely different than on any other day but today. logging trucks are driving by, familiar sight in southern oregon, bales of hay driving up the road. unfortunately the other thing we see are lots and lots of law enforcement. state police officer told me just about everybody is up here, atf, fbi, oregon state police, douglas county sheriff. when you see that shuttle bus drive by from the umpqua

community college, you can only think about what it looks like for students going up there on a normal day and residents passing down. >> i've been watching the logging trucks, i've seen the farmhouse across the street. it really is a community anyone would feel lucky to live in except for this next few days they're in for where, as i said to the city councilman, you pay the downside price for living in a closed community. >> reporter: yeah. i was told by one of the officers out here that the douglas county commissioner, if that doesn't say small town to you, i don't know what does. he's up here, at least was up here earlier at the community college. you said it, brian. if you look up the hill, there are little barns, beautiful green hillside. wonderful trees and, really, there's -- in the best way possible, i mean this. there's nothing going on. when you see what feels like the nation converging on a town like

this, you can't help but feel terribly, terribly saddened and uncomfortable. >> yeah. jacob, thank you. jacob soboroff who, as we said, is just outside, about a mile from the main gate of the community college. jim cavanaugh has been with us all day long. he is with the division of the alcohol, tobacco and firearms, law enforcement officer. i want to ask about your reaction to the president's words. and i'm asking you because of the number of years you carried a firearm for a living, putting you in a certain gun-owning or gun-carrying subset. and the part of society you've seen as part of law enforcement, as someone who took an oath to investigate the illegal use of a weapon and, given our conversation all day long today. >> right, brian. the thing that struck me most

about what the president said is he talked over the congress. he talked over the lobby groups. he talked right to the citizens. if there's going to be a change, it's going to be by the voter. it won't be anywhere else. there will be no change unless the voters, unless the american voter decides there will be a change. we could decide there will be a change to vote for people in congress who want the change. unless that happens we probably won't see it. the second part of your question about gun laws and enforcing them, yes, i was a law enforcement officer for more than 36 years and enforced gun laws across the country. they're very effective when used appropriately. there's lots of people who love guns and, for a variety of reasons. and nobody needs to take them away. i know all sides of the gun debate, obviously, having been with the atf for most of my career and as a commander. common sense legislation, common sense laws don't hurt

law-abiding gun owners and really help us interrupt these killings. i could tell you stories all night about gun laws where we arrest people who were about to go on school shootings, massacres at jewish centers and we interrupted them by some sort of tip from a community member or whatever and we were able to interrupt them and send them to prison. not an atf member in the country who can't tell you those stories and local, state, county and city, can tell you cases where they interrupted plots, plans, even criminals and felons and terrorists who use the firearm laws that we use as the achilles heel. the gun lovers, lobbyists, sportsmen, they should embrace the idea that we just want to take the people that are bad, the people that might kill everyone and leverage those laws there. that's what we always try to do fairly, you know. at atf, we also held up

law-abiding citizens right for firearms. we got calls all the time this guy shouldn't have a gun and we would say no, he's legally allowed to have it. there's nothing you can do. aps right to have a gun. we didn't take sides politically. of course, each side would accuse you of taking sides. we tried to enforce the law out of fear of favor and tried to direct it right at criminals, fugitives, whoever it was that had the guns, we could interrupt the crime, you know, moving forward. a lot can be done in that area. a lot can be done in the mental health area. mental health restraining orders, that could really help. training across the board. recognizing symptoms. so many things could be done. the president is frustrating. he's right. if we go through the next selection and congress stays the same, there will be no change. i've watch this had for four

decades. the point chris matthews made talking about the history was so important. the thing that was missed -- chris didn't miss it. it was the next part of the conversation was after all those historic events in america we changed the gun laws. after the gangsterrism of the '30s, machine guns and al capone, we passed the national firearms act that restricted machine guns and gangster weapons. in '68 after the assassinations of the president, robert kennedy and martin luther king we passed the act. after reagan was shot, brady bill. after shootings in the '90s, patrick purdy killing children in a schoolyard in stockton, california, we got an assault weapons ban. america used to react and say we can make a change here. now we don't make any change. we just go through this bloodshed without any change. and i'm only talking about

reasonable change. some proposals can go too far, obviousl obviously. >> to jim cavanaugh's point, when roads are broken, we fix them. when programs are defective, we change them. kate snow if it didn't take a member of congress taking a round in the head at a safeway market in tucson or a classroom full of kids in connecticut, i guess that's why the president is so angry. >> that's what he's hoping, that this one will trigger a change. i'm sitting here thinking of mark and jackie barden. they had a son named daniel, who was killed at newtown sandy hook. it really touched me, brian. they lost a child and they went to capitol hill. and they fought hard for what they thought was sensible and sort of easy. they thought they could get this measure through, that kelly

o'donnell was talking about. and their frustration, their anger when nothing happened was really hard to ignore. and i think you'll be hearing in the next 24 hours from a lot of those parents and perhaps, unfortunately, from new parents whose names we'll get to know from this setting. >> i think you're right. for the viewers tuning in, perhaps, after work or perhaps after school, here is the set of facts we've dealt with today. coming up on five hours since initial word. it was 10:38 am local time in oregon. first 911 calls. it's customary now to hear that people thought it was a backfire or firecracker. on the campus of this community college, people knew enough to guess that it was a weapon and it was. we don't know much about motive or even identity of the gunman. that will come later.

we don't know the identity of the dead either. that will come later. but 14 families are getting the worst possible news. death toll that right now stands at 13. one gunman since been killed by police. and upwards of 20 wounded at an otherwise beautiful community college, opened in 1961 on the bend of a river in rural oregon. the latest mass casualty event. and within the past hour we have seen an energized and angry and sad president obama from the briefing room, bemoaning the state of things in this country where gun legislation is concerned. for kate snow and i, thank you for being with us. for our entire nbc news team. at this point, we will send it to washington, d.c. and in his usual time slot as the anchor of "hardball" our coverage will continue in the hands of msnbc's chris matthews.

good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. it's happened again. in 1966 a student climbed to the tower of the university of texas. heavily armed he killed 16 people. three decades later, two students went one morning to columbine high school. deth count, 13. virginia tech in 2007, death count 32. sandy hook, elementary, newtown, connecticut. in 2012, death count 26. now umpqua community college in roseburg, oregon. preliminary death count, 13. 13 people are reported dead now. at least 20 more wounded after a gunman opened fire on the community college in that small