good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. it's happened again. in 1966 a student climbed to the tower of the university of texas. heavily armed he killed 16 people. three decades later, two students went one morning to columbine high school. deth count, 13. virginia tech in 2007, death count 32. sandy hook, elementary, newtown, connecticut. in 2012, death count 26. now umpqua community college in roseburg, oregon. preliminary death count, 13. 13 people are reported dead now. at least 20 more wounded after a gunman opened fire on the community college in that small town 70 miles south of eugene,

oregon. police responded to 911 calls. at 10:30 pacific time. 1:30 east coast time. they located the shooter. there was an exchange of fire and the shooter died in the melee. no officers were injured. governor of oregon has identified the gunman as a 20-year-old man. one student witness told msnbc that he was white. white male armed with a small caliber handgun, according to witnesses. pete williams is reporting that federal officials believe the gunman may have been armed with multiple guns. witness accounts, including posts on social media, pin a harrowing scene, including one woman who tweeted, quote, students are running everywhere. holy god! moments ago president obama showed anger and frustration as he addressed the tragedy from the brady press room. doesn't that tell you something? he was shot by an assassin.

let's listen. >> this has become routine. the reporting is routine. my response here that the podium ends up being routine. the conversation in the aftermath of it. we've become numb to this. we talked about this after columbine and blacksburg, after tucson, after newtown, after aurora, after charleston. it cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun. and what's become routine, of course, is the response of those who oppose any kind of common sense gun legislation. right now, i can imagine the press release is being cranked

out. we need more guns, they'll argue. fewer gun safety laws. does anybody really believe that? i hope and pray that i don't have to come out again during my tenure as president to offer my condolences to families in these circumstances. but based on my experience as president, i can't guarantee that. and that's terrible to say. and it can change. >> again, 13 are reported dead. nbc's pete williams is reporting that the death call may be revised lower perhaps. i'm joined by msnbc's jacob soboroff in oregon tonight.

thank you for joining us. i've been watching your reporting. what is the situation now in terms of getting to the school? is everyone being kept away from the crime scene? >> chris, we've seen a couple of people being led in and out. you hear the local police on the corner here. local police have this street blocked off, corner of local college road and highway 99 here and occasionally they'll yell out "resident" and allow a resident to pass through. other than that, it's been a steady stream of law enforcement. you name it, atf, fbi, douglas county police, they're all up here. at the 100-acre campus of umpqua community college where it is a very sad scene tonight. >> 13 reported dead, 20 wounded. 33 people who were shot. then you look at the number of bullets in the bodies in the victims. 18 to 34 bullets found in three

victims. how many rounds could have been fired here, hundreds? it's extraordinary the amount of firepower and amount of rounds that went off here. >> reporter: it's extraordinary to hear a statistic like that, chris. it's extraordinary to hear the president of the united states from the white house talking about a place like this. to me, at least, couldn't feel further away from the national news cycle or political environment in washington. and it really does feel like when you see the logging trucks driving by or bales of hay or the shuttle buses, the eyes of the nation are descending here, obviously. but both law enforcement -- you see people driving by with american flags on the back of oregon green jeep wranglers. the hearts are going out to the people here in this community. >> look at the number of people killed in big cities of baltimore, philadelphia, chicago, that don't even get

reported on the front of our newspapers. they're buried inside the metro pages. jacob soboroff is out there at the school. we'll be checking in with him, of course. let me bring in correspondent pete williams. he knows his stuff. the number of rounds inflicted on these victims is just -- the amount of -- well, just bullets fired by one person. at so many people. >> we don't know the number of rounds or amount of ammunition the gunman had. we have heard he had more than one weapon with him. witnesses have told us that they saw him carrying a rifle. we've heard that in the police reporting as well. and maybe that he had as many as four guns. we've heard from one source he had three handguns and a long gun. we don't know the specific weapons that he had or how many rounds that he fired. if he shot 20 or more people, that's unfortunately not a large number of rounds to be expanded from that many weapons.

you know, the president's call tonight -- i should say one other thing before i get to the president's comments tonight. on the number of victims, this number has been all over the place this afternoon. understandably, the authorities out there have had their hands full. we haven't had a lot of reporting back to the officials in washington, which is the normal way we learn about these things. they said earlier today that the number of people that were killed they thought was 13. then they thought maybe there was double counting in that number and perhaps it would turn out to be ten. strangely enough, as many hours as it's been since this incident, a definitive number of how many people were killed or injured. i suspect we'll have that fairly soon. on this question of gun control, you know, after these events there's always this debate about gun control or better help for mental health. but one thing that has changed over the time that the president has been in office is how police respond to these incidents, chris. it used to be that the rule was

get to the scene. wait till the s.w.a.t. team arrives, heavily armed, heavily trained s.w.a.t. teams that could go in and confront the gunman. that's a thing of the past now. the rule is, get there. get in. engage the gunman. that seems to be what happened here. this is, by our count, the 41st campus school shooting. college campuses, public schools. just this year. the 41st shooting up until today, the number of people who were killed in those incidents, if you don't count suicides, but the number of, so to speak, innocent victims shot and killed was nine. unfortunately now this incident will more than double that numbe number. >> i think we took a long hard look at the response of school shootings in the last couple of

years. get there. wait till the real fire power arrives. we have seen over and over that that just doesn't work. now the rule is, what police are told and trained to do is get in, at least get the gunman so he can't keep shooting. pin him down. try to find him. isolate him so he doesn't continue to control the situation. as authorities waited for lots of reinforcements to arrive, park police, for example, went in and confronted the gunman here at the navy yard in washington, d.c. and were able to stop him from continuing to shoot. we've seen that in other school shootings as well. in this little community, roseburg, oregon, they've been through this already. nine years ago there was a shooting at the high school. one student shot another in the

back. the victim survived. it got the officials in roseburg thinking about how they should respond to these things. police have done practice and training out there. the community college has thought about it as well. they have changed that plan. one is do college campuses like this, small community colleges, have enough people on campus that are armed, have enough guards, law enforcement people on campus that are armed? the former president of this school said that they didn't have that many should that change. second thing they may look at here is the very controversial issue of whether college students should be able to carry weapons. as you well know, there are two sides in this debate. one that says no, let's keep the amount of fire power on campuses small. the other side says yes. if you have more people with guns, they can confront these. the president talked about this

a little bit tonight. in oregon, the law is that if you have a concealed weapons permit, you can carry your weapon on to a school or college campus. now, we don't know how the gunman got his weapons, if he was 20 years old, he wouldn't come under that law. i think you have to be 21 to get a concealed weapons permit. it may reenergize the debate about that. >> you're so good. i was just thinking that the argument is often made by rural people that if you dial 911 and live pretty far out from the county seat are you just out there by yourself on a farm you basically have to protect yourselves. whereas if you live in the big city maybe you can lock the door of your apartment from an inindividualer and have a pretty good chance that the cops will be there in time to help you. this is an example of they -- how far were they from any kind of police force, authorities that were armed and could come to their aid? >> reporter: in fact, they did come to their aid. roseburg is a small community. they're just on the outskirts of

town, if you will. the roseburg police department and the sheriff's office was able to respond pretty quickly. but it wasn't -- you're right. it wasn't the kind of response you would get in a big city. certainly not the kind of response we would see here in washington, d.c., where we have dozens and dozens of different law enforcement agencies to respond. and the question is, you know, what sort of campus security should they have on their own. >> right. thank you so much, nbc's pete williams. becky holm is editor and publisher. her daughter is a student at umpqua community college and was in the next building from where the shooting happened. i want you to tell us what you know about the situation and the reaction of the community there. apparently it's a quiet place until today. >> it is a quiet place. less than a mile away, just barely over a mile is the oregon state police station. and so they were also first responders to the situation.

i heard about it actually. i was at work i was not listening to my scanner i got a text message from my daughter who was in the next building and it said there was an active shooter and i think i'm safe and i'm in the kim building or chem lab and i love you. and that was the alert that i got. and then i opened up facebook and it exploded. >> becky, can you ask your daughter about how she felt about the situation, being so incredibly close to the horror? >> they're asking how you felt about the situation being so close to the horror. >> at first it was really terrifying. i didn't think that it was an actual event. i thought it was just a drill. but then they said that it wasn't a drill, it was real and so we all got into a back room

in the chemistry lab and we sat down. it was all dark. and they told us that we needed to tell people that we were safe and that there was an active gunman on campus. >> how many shots did you hear yourself? >> did you hear any shots? >> i didn't hear any shots because i was in the chemical lab, working on a chemistry experiment. and one of the teachers said that there was an active gunman on campus and everybody was really calm about it. and it was actually shocking how calm everybody was. >> let me ask you about local attitudes about -- not gun control itself but background checks whachlt do people think about the importance of a waiting period or checking out whether a person is emotionally and mentally able to take care of a gun safely? what would be the politics of that in an editorial situation

for you? >> i definitely have my opinions. right now i'm being a mom and banding with other parents who also have their own political opinion on this. frankly, ask me tomorrow and i'll spew the whole opinion. but tonight i'm just being a mom and i'm just really glad that the situation is completely over. my daughter and many others are safe. the ones that were injure -- we're certainly praying for them. the ones that lost their lives, we hope that comfort and peace comes to their families as well. >> well, the time will come in a couple of days or so, we would like to know your opinion. thank you very much. i understand your feelings and situation tonight not to get political tonight. it is going to be a debate across this country, including in oregon. thank you, becky holm.

and kayleen, take care of yourself. you've been through something, even if it was only next door, the next classroom. >> he said take care of yourself. >> i'm amazed you didn't hear the bullets flying. we heard the anger from president obama, speaking from the brady press room, named after james brady, who was shot when there was an assassination attempt on president reagan. president obama issue aid ringing call for change in attitude from our elected leaders, our politicians on gun matter matters. >> somebody somewhere will comment and say obama politicized this issue. well, this is something we should politicize. it is relevant to our life together, to the body politic. each time it happens i am going to bring this up. each time this happens, i am going to say that we can actually do something about it.

but we're going to have to change our laws. and this is not something i can do by myself. i've got to have -- >> well, let's bring in nbc's kelly o'donnell, at capitol hill, where she is often found. what do you think the people you recover every day, republican, democrat, progressive, conservative? are they saying same old same old? what do you think they're saying when they hear the president being so earnest there about doing something? >> the last line is the shouting at each other must end. covering members of congress day in, day out and seeing the lines

of division, have wept in the offices of lawmakers and at times others who have very strong feelings about their right and really the effectiveness of government. it is something that is very complicated to cover. i tread lightly to talk about the politics of it while people are still learning about the tragic events. i think what we can talk about is the fact that these are difficult issues. you will have both democrats and republicans saying more needs to be done to keep guns away from those who have a mental incapacity, whether it's mental illness or some other deficiency that is physical, or mental in nature. then the question comes, how do you judge that? is it someone who is put through a court process? how does that work? it gets very complicated. you'll also hear from conservatives. there are gun laws on the books

that are properly followed. then, of course, you'll hear from democrats and others who might be more in the middle. a discussion of is there a way to protect and honor the second amendment rights but do more to try to tone down this culture of violence? so these are complex, tough issues. now the real practical reality over the next several days, we may hear more on the campaign trail about these issues. chances are conservative also speak very strongly against the president, saying that the rights cannot be tread upon. and then you'll have people like bernie sanders, perhaps hillary clinton, who already have made some comments tonight, talking about taking a new approach. politically, chris, getting something done, it's hard to imagine that's going to take place any time soon, when congress has other matters to deal with. there really seems to be a disconnect in recognizing the problem, grieving for the victims, seeing the complexities

of competing rights and responsibilities and then actually voting on something that can pass to where they're really not trying right now. >> except for hillary clinton, former senator of new york, i don't think i can think of anyone running for president today who is really concerned or shown a strong push for gun safety. bernie sanders is a pro-gun rights guy from vermont. it was a nice statement he made about lowering the tone of the debate. he didn't come out for gun safety. he said let's cool it in the debating period. i think he is very careful in a place like vermont. i grew up in pennsylvania, as you know. you go after gun rights in pennsylvania, you're in big trouble. pat toomey joined with joe manchin from west virginia for some movement for checking out who gets guns but certainly i wouldn't call it gun kroechlt it's just an effort to keep hgus out of the hands of crazy

people. i think it will be hard, besides hillary clinton, trying to find somebody out there, who is willing to say we have to reduce access to guns especially for people who are emotionally and mentally disturbed. >> you will have people who will want to talk about the mental health aspect. >> yes. >> but again you'll have the discussion of, you know, this is a group of voters and conversation in american politics that has a lot of anger toward government where they're not looking to give government more discretion over people's rights and responsibilities. it's volatile. it's emotional. you mentioned earlier if someone was in a rural community and has to defend themselves, that's something that is eye opening when you hear people talk about it. then, of course, there's been tremendous gun violence in chicago. the president's hometown, in a city setting, day in, day out. not mass shootings in the same way we saw today but day in, day

out violent culture and how that gets expressed through gun violence. it will be part of the campaign trail. thus far, it has not been the most animated you shall on the campaign trail. chris? >> you know your territory up there so much, kelly o'donnell. thank you from capitol hill. a reporter who does know exactly what the problems are of getting something done. dan gross is president of the brady campaign to end gun violence. i hope i'm informed on this. it's not that the people who are in the nra are law breakers. i think a lot of them do take responsibility for their firearms, load their own shells. a lot of them are environmentalists. my brother is one. they control the laws of the united states in a way that puts guns in the hands of bad people. and nuts, to be blunt about t people with real mental problems. >> and convicted felons and domestic abusers. the people that we all agree should not have guns. let's not confuse the membership of the nra, the people that you were just describing, decent, law-abiding people, and the leadership of the nra that has a

political agenda. >> let's get to that. if you had a secret ballot of all nra members would they say we need to keep people with mental problems from having guns? >> more than that. >> you heard jim cavanaugh in the afternoon reporting here that said they kept a lot of guns away from people who went to buy a gun for a purpose, they figured out what it was, and stopped them. >> since the brady law was passed and implemented in 1994, 2.4 million sales have been blocked to convicted felons, domestic abusers, dangerously mentally ill, people that we all agree shouldn't have those. >> it works? >> tremendously well. the problem is that those laws, that law doesn't impact gun shows or online gun sale. >> why would a gun show ever be exempt from government regulation at all?

>> because the gun lobby wants it that way. the only place -- we were talking about how this is a complicated issue. it's not that complicated as far as the american public goes. >> the leadership of the nra, suppose the leadership of the nra simply said we think gun rights are essential to this country, second amendment. we're going to fight tooth and nail but we believe certain people shouldn't get their hands on guns. we're going to keep those people from getting guns. would it change the view of the country if the nra did that? >> but could they? >> they could if they would stop bowing down. >> if the leadership would say we're going to change our tune. >> they would have to say it in

closed doors to these lawmakers who are doing their bidding. >> we continue to cover this tragic shooting in roseburg, oregon. 13 dead. we'll be right back after this. at mfs investment management, we believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights. active management can take calculated risks. active management can seek to outperform. because active investment management isn't reactive. it's active. that's the power of active management. after we are all inside for a while, it gets pretty stuffy. when dad opens up the window, what's the first thing he does? the tobin stance. but when we open up the windows, you can see the dust floating around. there's dog hair. pollen. more work.

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that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. 13 people are dead in a mass shooting on the campus of a community college. we'll have more on that in a minute. we have new information on another late-breaking story that came out late today. nbc news has confirmed now 10

americans have been killed today in addition to two afghans when a c-130 aircraft -- there's a model like the one that you see on the screen -- crashed this afternoon in afghanistan. so far, the cause of the crash is unknown. nbc news national security producer courtney kube, is with me now live from the pentagon. courtney, what can you tell us? do you know if it was shot down? >> so far, there are no reports of any enemy action in the area at the time. that doesn't look like that's the cause of this crash at this point. of course, it's under investigation. just telling you a little bit about jalalabad it's in the eastern part of the country, sort of between kabul but closer over toward the pakistan border. it's a very mountainous area. there's extremely high winds. when i've taken off or landed at that air strip in jalalabad you have tremendous crosswinds. i'm not saying that's the cause, obviously. as of now, no enemy fire. no reports of bad weather at the time either of any inclement weather. we do know, as you said, there were five u.s. service members.

they were the crew on the c-130 transport plane who were killed. there were also five contractors killed and two afghan civilians, who were on the ground when the plane went down were also killed in this. >> do we have access and control of the crash site? >> so far, the u.s. military is in control of the crash site. they believe that they have found and determined -- secured the site and found all the remains of the victims. but, as i said, the situation is still under investigation. afghan civilians on the ground may have been hurt or injured or killed. as of now they're saying just the two. >> in terms of the taliban presence, how dangerous is it? >> stul a tremendously dangerous area. it was supposed to close in october last year. they've maintained it. base where u.s. special operations forces took off for the raid that killed osama bin laden. it's a heavy taliban presence in

the area. it's very close to the pakistan border. it's close to the gate border crossing into pakistan, which is a frequent target of taliban and insurgent strikes. so, it's a dangerous area. like i said, at this point they don't believe that the crash was hostile, related to any kind of hostile enemy action. they're still looking into it. it's a dangerous area. and it is a -- just the terrain there is very harsh. >> thank you so much. nbc's courtney kube at the pentagon. now back to the campus shooting in oregon. 13 people are dead there. let's go to the roseburg area itself. our affiliate in medford, oregon, thank you for helping us out here tonight. what can you tell us about the killer? >> reporter: well, we just don't really know anything just yet. we do know it was a 20-year-old male. that's about as far as it goes. it looks like there's about to

be a report from the douglas county sheriff's office. we're out at fire district 2 in roseburg. we're just trying to get any details we can. for the time being, very scarce. we're still waiting on an exact number of swrered. people have been transported by hell kopter as far away as portland, 2 1/2 hours. the hospitals here full up. also the clinics taking in people with more minor injuries. but very, very hectic scene out here. my station, myself, one of the first people out here. and very, very hectic, chaotic. a lot of emotions, also a lot of hope out here, chris. >> thank you very much, matt jordan, in roseburg, oregon. more now from president obama as he spoke very emotionally. for us who have watched him verks emotional and angrily speaking about gun control, that nothing is getting done. >> have news organizations tally up the number of americans who have been killed through terrorist attacks offer the last decade and the number of americans who have been killed

by gun violence and post those side by side on your news reports. this won't be information coming from me. it will be coming from you. we spend over $1 trillion and passed countless laws and devote entire agencies to preventing terrorist attacks on our soil. and rightfully so. and yet we have a congress that explicitly blocks us from even collecting data on how we could potentially reduce gun deaths. >> how could that snb. >> let's bring in fbi profiler clint van zandt. and the principal at sandy hook newtown, connecticut, who was killed trying to protect those

students. this pattern here i talked of earlier, going back to the texas tower shooter in austin, who we thought was some weirdo, charles whitman, nobody would ever do that. then it seems like they do it and somehow people get the idea i'm going to school and kill a bunch of people and i have the fire power to do it. the number of rounds fired here. 18 to 30 bullet wounds in people at close range, apparently. 33 shot all together. 13 of them dead. how many people can you shoot at close range and just get away with it? that just stuns me. what's that look like if you're watching with a video? what would it look like? >> pete williams reported the shooter allegedly had four guns, rifle and three handguns. you have to be 21 in oregon to buy a handgun, semi automatic pistol. he didn't buy the guns so where did he get them? through his family?

did he steal them? you know, i'm watching -- you put the clip of the president on. and i cannot imagine what it's like to be that man and say i am the president of the united states and i cannot get my legislators to put their heads together and pass legislation that will stop americans from killing each other. and, as you said, you can't stop everybody. you can't heal everybody or fix everything. but there are some things you can do. and if you have -- if we're doing gun checks, background checks, 40% of the guns in this country are sold without a background check. that's an easy place to start, america. before we go anywhere else. and, chris, this particular shooter is active just like they all are, on social media. yesterday, according to some sources, he was on social media, suggesting, number one, he was going to do something like this and supposedly there were people giving him ideas of how he might

do it. and he writes, allegedly, on social media, i am so inadequate. this is probably the least significant thing i'll ever do in my life. when you take all this -- when you take the mental health issues, when you take the poor selfworthy, when you take the begging somebody to intervene on social media when they don't do it, and then when you take our gun laws at a holier than swiss cheese, we can see how things like this happen when someone chooses to act out with violence for conflict resolution. instead of using their head and their mouth, they use a gun because they can't do it otherwise. >> well, we haven't been able to confirm that at nbc but it may be part of the story as it turns out. erica lafferty, daughter of the sandy hook newtown principal, dawn hockspring. what's your feeling about this?

>> it's way too familiar. the picture is familiar. the fire engines in the background are familiar. it's way too famineline, on social media, on the news, hearing people say it's too soon to talk politics. it's not too soon. it is way too late. >> well, you know, that may be a one-sided argument. for politics, the word is used for those who believe in some sort of gun safety laws. it's not used for those who don't want them and have been fighting them. for some reason the word politics only applies to people who want to do something and people who don't want anything done are somehow removed from it all. why do you think it is the reason we don't have laws? we have a violence level in this country -- i mentioned earlier in this country about the number of political people. i didn't mention malcolm x, bobby kennedy, martin luther king. the number of people who have been killed in public life is unlike any other country. but these are cases of innocent, regular people. and no public role, to put it

bluntly. they don't have identities in the newspapers. they're not in bold print. they're regular people and they're gunned down. it seems to me almost promies cuously kill people because they're in the room. it doesn't matter who they are. if they're within range, you shoot them. i don't know how we can justify guns -- why not give guns away to crazy people if we're going to let them buy them? it's just as crazy to let them buy a gun if they're nuts, give them a gun. that's my thinking. yours? >> absolutely. people say the only way to stop a good guy with a gun -- or stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun. it's just arming more people instead of people raising good people and doing everything we can to prevent guns from falling into dangerous hands. we've seen this happen time and time and time again. and we're always going to be attacked, saying that you want to take our guns away. and whatever crazy rhetoric

they're going to spit at us. people who should not have guns can get them way too easily. we have seen great successes on the state level. but on the federal level, absolutely nothing has been done. and the core of the issue is that we have a senate that is largely owned by the gun lobby and we need to vote them out and elect a congress that will vote on the side of their constituents and vote on the side of public health and public safety. >> tell me about the memory you have of your mom and what she did, and how she ended up. >> i was listening to news reports earlier today and someone in the cc building mentioned a woman, saying there's a shooter. stay put. and i instantly thought back to the day that i found out that those exact words were my mom's last words.

shooter. stay put. it's horrifying. it's terrifying. it's disgusting and sickening that this is happening time and time again. and i am living in a country where no one is doing anything about it. i fight every single day of my life to make that -- make change happen. and days like this bring me back to the worst day of my entire life and shake me to the core. but it does nothing but empower me to fight and motivate me to bring others along in this fight with me. i'm not going anywhere. i've said that close to three years ago and i'm saying it again today. >> we should all want a daughter like you. thank you. >> thank you. >> and i want to thank clint van zandt for his expertise. our coverage will continue in a moment. we'll be back after this. ahh... yeah! ahh...

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welcome back. as we continue to cover the shooting in roseburg, organize, at umpqua community college. as reports are radioed in to the shooting on campus, let's listen to that. >> shots. he's in the classroom on the -- it's going to be the southeast side. >> copy. gunshots. male in the classroom on the southeast side of snyder hall. >> let's bring in now msnbc law enforcement analyst, atf special agent in charge jim cavanaugh. thank you. i would love for you to go over what i heard you talk about about gun safety laws. not gun control but keeping an eye on people who shouldn't have guns. this isn't about whether to go

hunting or observing hunting laws. this is about going after people who shouldn't have a gun in their hands to begin with. you talked about the effectiveness, actions taken by atf over the years. >> right. we wouldn't have enough to tell but the stopping of the felons, career criminals, people who want to hurt and kill our civilians. when you enforce the gun law and get those people, that's stopping the next murder. this is how we interrupt people like this shooter here today. in this case had he come to our notice, that he had guns, obtained them illegally, he would have been arrested and charged with a gun charge. it wouldn't make the news, local news in portland or the city where it occurred. he would maybe get some prison time. we stopped thousands and thousands of those. i can tell you, because i

experienced it personally myself, as an agent, commander, uniform officer. they're very effective. i was building on your comments earlier today about the history. this is the thing that's changed much. across history, every time we had these things from the gangsterism in the '30s, when we passed the national firearms act in '34 to carefully weapons. after the '68 assassinations of dr. king, john f. kennedy, after robert kennedy, we had the seminole gun control act in the country. after that horror, the congress, country responded. after reagan was shot, jim brady, they tried to push a brady bill through t took them 15 years or more to get it through. it was the impetus to start it. and the assault weapons ban after shootings at schools like patrick purdy in stockton,

california, brought us the assault weapon ban. america used to respond. legislators used to respond and say we can tighten up, plug a gap. we can do something here that will change things. what we've seen now is years and years and years of just no change. no even moderate change to improve things a little bit. mental health restraining orders, i'm a big supporter of that. seeing so many people that suffer from mental illness, should not have firearms and can be stopped and also responsible gun control laws that don't hurt people's constitutional rights but do help us to stop people from, you know, obtaining guns illegally or plotting a murder. those are good, common sense steps. nothing is going to happen unless the voters, who the president talked to today -- you know, your world is the political one. when i watched him, he was talking over the congress and over the lobby. he was talking right to the citizens and saying unless you do something, i can't do

anything. i would say that after being involved with it for 40 years, no change in the congress, no change, no movement at all on this for changes in mental health restraining orders, changes in -- moderate changes for background checks or sensible laws that will help us regulate -- what the young people don't understand is that gun laws used to be stronger. they don't understand that. gun laws have been walked back. >> right. i know. let me give you one thought since you gave me the credit for being the political guy here f you want a career in politics -- go in, in your early 30s, and survive till your late 60s, that's the normal political career for a lot of those in congress. you don't want to risk the animosity, hostility of the nra. they'll never forget, act against you in every campaign. they'll raise money against you and most members of congress would rather not have a risk to their career. if you're in career politics for a living, that's your career, joe clark of pennsylvania go

down forever and never seen again, very reformed minded senator from pennsylvania. good-bye, joe clark, because you were for gun control. tom foley, former speaker of the house. it can ruin your career politically. that's why they're afraid of it. the gun lobby is lethal. you know that. >> right. you're exactly right. when you do the right thing, sometimes you may lose an election. but really it's up to the voter. you've talked about this, that the gun lobby responds to their membership. that's who they are and what they do. they're uncompromising. but does america need uncompromising groups to control how the rest of us can live? you know, we need to have some compromises in a civil society. not anything draconian. not to believe all these crazy theories about everybody is taking everybody's guns away. let's be pragmatic, logical. your kids can't go to the mall, movie theater, college without getting massacred. if that's not going to change

something we do here and make us better -- chris, it's not just gun control. it's mental health issues, restraining orders, security at schools. it's thinking about how we abou respond with security plans. there's a whole lot to the picture. but if we could have the people that would allow us to do it in the country and states and cities as well, we can probably move the ball. we can't eliminate it but we might could improve it. >> well said, jim. we have to go right now to a press conference. >> here we go. >> well, ladies and gentlemen, first i want to say that we are deeply saddened by the tragic events that unfolded today at umpqua community college. these sort of tragedies aren't supposed to happen here. yet they did. and it leaves tons of questions in our minds.

and so as this is a very active investigation and the investigation continues, there are a few questions i can answer for you but there will be more to come. it's very early in this event. and we are still trying to confirm a great amount of information that is floating around and a great amount of information that we need to confirm. i want to say first and foremost that our victims and families of our victims are our priority. everything that we do from here on will be for them. at this time we are reporting and can confirm ten fatalities in the shooting. seven of those -- seven additional injuries.

those that were injured were initially transported to our local hospital. and three of those that were critically injured were transferred to another hospital up in the eugene area. we know there are conflicting reports of the numbers of casualti casualties. and i can tell you that this number is the best, most accurate information we have at this time. the fbi has established a toll-free number for tips and families. that number is 1-800-225-5324. also can be remembered as 1-800-call-fbi. when you do this, you choose option 7. again, this number is to help reunite and provide information

to the families of the victims. this event has been deemed a mass casualty event, which brings with it hundreds of resources to this small community. along with those resources and the fact this is a mass casualty incident, brings specific protocols that we must follow. that includes specific processes by which the state medical examiner's office may manage identification. and because of these protocols and the theed to notify each family, we don't anticipate releasing the names of the fatalities for 24 to 48 hours. the law enforcement investigation into the shooter and into his motivation is ongoing. we are not ready at this time to make any comments about him.

reunification knz at tcontinues douglas county fairgrounds. family and students should gather there. there are counselors at the fairgrounds providing assistance to all the folks that are down there. at this time i'd like to have my public information officer corporal dwes hutson address some other issues. thank you. >> so we're going to continue to use the hashtag ucc shooting on our twitter account, which is douglascoso. further written updates will be posted to our social media accounts, our website, and to flash alert eugene.net. we have a number of agencies that have provided a lot of resources to this incident and

at a future briefing we'll walk through what those are and what that looks like. we also anticipate having another briefing later this evening, and we'll notify you via our social media account and flash alert. and -- i have a couple administrative things to discuss, and that's all the information i have. right now. >> is the shooter among the ten fatalities? ? i'm n . >> i'm not taking any questions. that's the end of the briefing. >> just for accuracy, the ten fatalities, does that include the shooter? >> no questions. thank you. >> is there another briefing scheduled? >> that's the news conference of course with sheriff john hanlin

of the douglas county sheriff's department. the news from the sheriff is there have been ten fatalities, ten dead in today's shooting. the sheriff says the names of the victims won't be released for 24 to 48 hours. he had no further information about the 20-year-old male shooter himself. let's bring in peter langman. he's a psychologist who has studied school shooters. he's author of the book "why kids kill: inside the minds of school shooters." so it was unclear there whether that count of ten included the shooter. but let's move on. what is it that drives these young men to do this? >> you know, there's usually a combination of factors. there's personality issues going on. but also a lot of stresses in their lives. usually a combination of academic failures, usually romantic or marital failures, occupational failures, just overwhelming stress. >> well, you know, high school is rough. and i think most people like me, most would say it's not the best years of your life. it can be the most difficult

years of your life. it's puberty and onhard and then there's all kinds of stress in terms of dating if you even can get a date, and there's a lot of competition in that social area. a hell of a lot of it. and some people get pushed aside, ignored, whatever, beat up. why do some people go to gunplay, to gunfire, to killing? >> you know, there's usually three types of people that commit these attacks. it's not always the same kind of profile. some of them have a psychopathic personality, extremely narcissistic, easily enraged. others have more of a mental health issue such as schizophrenia, they're psychotic, they may be hallucinating. and the third type are really traumatized kids and these are young people who come from horrendous backgrounds of abuse and violence in their own homes. >> let's go through these cases. i was pointing out the case of the texas shooter from the tower at the university of texas at austin killing all those people. certainly virginia tech of course and columbine and sandy

hook. what has been the prevalent condition of the shooter in these cases? is there a commonality? >> you know, those shooters were either psychotic or psychopaithc but they also had a lot going wrong in their lives. they were full of rage, they wanted to die, but before they died they wanted to take people with them as a way of getting revenge against the world. >> why would you want to be famous in a world you were not in? >> you know, for some of these people they feel like they're essentially a nobody, they have no significance. they feel worthless. and for some the idea of fame is very attractive and they might not be remembered for anything except their final moments, and for some of them apparently that is good enough. >> but that's all they experience. of their fame, to be blunt about it. and to be horrific. they live for that moment in which they're shooting people,

knowing in that moment they'll be famous for doing that. is that it? >> that's right. in fact, erik harris at columbine had written on his website, "i want to leave a lasting impression on the world." that's what he set out to do. >> what a tough business you're in, sir. peter langman thanks for that expertise. let's check back in with msnbc correspondent jacob soboroff who's at the scene in oregon. now we have the numbers. do we know if that ten includes the shooter, the ten deaths? >> reporter: you know, we don't know from our post here, chris. what i can tell you is i heard your conversation earlier about the law enforcement presence in this area, and there is a state trooper post. maybe a football field length away from where we're standing right here. we were also made aware of reporting by the associated press that said a former president of the umpqua community college had said there was only one campus security guard on campus, an unarmed person, and this is something that had been debated evidently on the campus over the last couple of years, chris. >> thank you. it will be debated again tomorrow morning i'm sure.

jacob soboroff, thank you for that reporting from roseburg, oregon. our coverage, by the way, continues now on "all in" with chris hayes. and good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. today this country experienced its 45th school shooting in this year alone and the 294th mass shooting of the calendar year of 2015 according to the broadest definition of the term. a massacre at a community college in a remote part of southwestern oregon which left ten people dead and seven wounded. there is still at this hour a lot we don't know about what happened. we do know the gunman, a 20-year-old male, is now deceased. not long ago president obama came to the white house briefing room to deliver a blistering response to today's events, one that may be remembered as one of the most powerful and angry speeches of his presidency. we bring it to you now in