last night, my bag, my phone, my wallet, my car keys, my car keys, we dropped everything and ran. when we ran out of the building everyone went every which way. i think we were the first class to know something was up. everybody else was still in their classes. as we were running by we were telling people to get out, go, you have to move. we don't know what's going on. we followed her down to the bookstore. we told everybody we think there's a shooter, we don't know what's going on. you need to call the police. next thing you know we hear three or four more gunshots and we knew something was going on. we were like this is reel. >> this morning we continue to learn more about the mass shooting on umpqua community

college. the gunman, chris harper merser, is among the dead. police say he was not a student at the school. >> family members of students in the classroom where the shootings occurred tell mbc news that the gunman asked what religion they were before firing. he specifically targeted christians. four weapons were recovered, three handguns and a long gun similar to an ar style rifle. here's douglas county sheriff addressing the media last night. >> let me be very clear. i will not name the shooter. i will not give him the credit he probably sought prior to this horrific and cowardly act.

media will get the name confirmed in time. you will never hear me mention his name. >> just before 11:00 a.m. local time police dispatchers received the first 911 calls from the school. the gunman opening fire near one of the classrooms in the science area. with us this morning we have former governor of vermont and howard dean, writer for the national review. charles c.w. cook and in manchester, new hampshire manager editor of bloomberg politics. first let's go to thomas roberts live in roseburg, oregon. thomas, what else have we learned about the accused gunman? >> reporter: good morning. he is known as 26-year-old chris harper merser. someone who lived in the area not a student. we are at the base of the college. they've closed it off. there's only one access point to get in and out. we're at the base of that.

fire dispatch was some of the first to receive 911 calls. just a few miles away we can see fire district number two. they're located right down the way. we are finding out more about the online profile and history of what is appearing to be a pretty disturbed 26-year-old young man who grew up in california and moved here recently with his mother. his parents are divorced. his dad still resides in california and when reporters were able to catch up with him he was in utter shock. >> i can't answer any questions right now. i don't want to ask any questions right now. obviously, it's been a devastating day. devastating for me and my family. i know you're doing your job. i just ask for the respect of privacy. so far, you've done that. >> is it a surprise at all? >> shocked.

shocked. >> we know that chris harper merser was on the campus. we are working to find out the details of what happened on the gun fire captured. i wanted to show you guys the newspaper from the local news reviews. this is the newspaper that came out earlier that demonstrated what they believed dead. we're now reporting on the 10 that lost their lives. this paper was still lying around the hotel wednesday that sheriff hamlin filed for his third terms. he made the headlines for wednesday sitting next to this paper. he's been part of the department here since 1989 when he joined and he has a 26-year career here that's now been offended by this 26-year-old man. >> thomas roberts, thank you so

much. >> in light of all this, let's take a look at the mass shooting incidents in america lately. 2015, 274 days, 294 mass shootings, hundreds dead. the data comes from the mass shooting tracker which counts incidents where at least four people were shot, killed or injured. 380 people have died in mass shootings this year alone. even when the definition of a mass shooting is narrowed there's still an increase when looking at attacks that took place in public where the shooter and the victims didn't know each other. it's tripled since the period in 1982 to 2011 going from every 200 days to 164 days. judging by their analysis of an fbi study released last year looking at active shooter cases, one took place every 103 days between 2000 and 2013.

fbi data says homicides have fallen but gun deaths are still a major killer in america as these numbers stacked up next to terrorism deaths. as for the toll taken on our nation's schools, roseburg, oreg oregon -- every town marks 142 similar school shootings since sandy hook and a third school shooting in oregon. >> 8 in 10 american favor background checks for all gun sales. a pole taken just two weeks ago shows support the higher at 93%. there's a broad majority in favor of preventing the mentally ill from purchasing guns 79-19%.

57% who would ban all assault style weapons, 40% oppose such a law. however, americans are more closely divided on rights and the effectiveness of gun laws. 47% say it's more important to protect gun rights while 50% say it's a need to control gun ownership. according to a resent pole, more than half of americans think we need stricter gun laws. 22% fine where they are and 13% think they should be looser. according to that pole the majority of americans have a positive view of gun ownership. 54% say it protects people while 40% find it puts people at risk.

>> so willie, obviously, there's going to be people talking about how this latest tragedy is going to impact the latest campaign moving forward. president obama obviously very angry yesterday as he went out and gave another press conference on mass shootings. on many of these gun shoe issues, it is divided. americans are split. >> they are. gun control advocates want universal background checks and oregon wants universal background checks. they went into effect two months ago. private gun sales are covered by universal back checks. also, this campus was a gun free zone. you have those two things laid out by people advocated by gun control should have protected the students and did not. >> which went to the real frustration. they're obviously 200 million

guns on american streets. it's like ill lel immigration. people talking about we're going to round everybody up. that's not going to happen. we're not going to get the 200 million guns off the street and americans wouldn't stand for it anyway. what do we do in a state like oregon where they do everything that gun control advocates want done we chicago, the strictest of gun laws, we saw it there. how do we move forward to lesson these tragic events? >> let's look at the one thing common with these shooters. they're all very mentally deranged. every single one of them are crazy. i don't think there's been a single incident of a juhadist or something like that doing this in the school. he was targeting christians, i think because he was crazy, not because he was a juhadist.

how do you keep mentally ill people from getting their hands on guns? that's a very difficult question. it's not hard if somebody has a mental illness record. first of all, you need a universal background. it doesn't do it good to do it in new york or chicago if you can import the guns. >> after sandy hook, i had a lot of, i talked about background checks, we needed to be much stricter and mentally ill people trying to get guns then you have the privacy. >> that's right. joe, we understand what you're saying. but now if i want to own a gun to protect my family i'm going to a psychiatrist to take care of my mental problems. >> you could theoreticalget bac

checks. it's really, really, really difficult. in some cases it's obvious. people have long histories of mental illness and those we can stop. i don't know that this guy was in any treatment. >> mark, what's a political impact? the president very angry yesterday. i saw an article last night that hillary clinton is being more aggressive on gun control issues than democrats have been in the past. as we look at this human tragedy, we understand it's going to shape the debate on whose going to be the next president of the united states. what impact do you think it has, mark? >> well, the president tried to grab the country and shake hard and i think a lot of the debates are going to be familiar and a lot of the arguments for the campaign. same for the democrats, the reality the president tried to

highlight, we're the only country that has these types of things. it's something nobody in the country should stand for. it's going to be interesting to see leading democrats will go with what the president said and go further in terms of specific policy proposals. it's going to be interesting if any republican says i may not agree with president obama or hillary's agenda but here's my agenda and my way of reducing the possibility and incidents of young people being terrorized at their schools. >> we're going to show the president. before we do, the sheriff wrote a letter to vice president biden, i believe, requesting that the obama administration not push for tighter gun restrictions and made a passional plea for them not to push for tighter gun restrictions. here's president obama hours after the shooting took place.

>> we are not the only country on earth that has people with mental illnesses or want to do harm to other people. we see these kinds of mass shootings every few months. somehow, this has become routine. the reporting is routine, my response here at the podium ends up being routine. the conversation and if aftermath of it, we've become numb to this. we talked about this after columbine and tucson, newtown, aurora and charleston. what's also routine is somebody somewhere will comment and say obama po lit sized this issue.

this is something we should po lit size. it is relevant to our common life together, to the body politic. this is a political choice we make. this day happens every few months in america. we are collectively answerable to those families who lose their loved ones because of our enaction. >> charles, a passion plea by the president. i do wonder though, yes, there's mentally illness across the globe. i guess howard would agree with me some european countries are far more advanced taking care of middle illness. what do we do if you're a defender of the second amendment but you find these attacks and

seems like oregon had done all the right things. what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of people with mental illnesses. >> i think it's difficult. there's a difference in saying are we upset? yes, we are and does the president have the slightest clue to fix this. he proposed universal background checks. oregon had background checks. the argument for universal background checks is guns can come into other states. no mass shooter seems to get their guns in any sense that would intersect with private sales. they either buy them from a dealer or get them illegal he. obama also wanted a ban and similarly he had -- >> by the way, bloomberg, when i was talking to the mayor after newtown, he said the assault

weapon ban, that's a big bright shiny light. it's used sometimes and it's horrifying but the major talked about if we're going to reduce gun deaths, he talks about background checks which i support but also the trafficking of it. isn't it true only 3% of murders and crimes are committed with guns from people who purchase the guns. isn't this a big trafficking problem too. >> sure. again, we have a problem in the united states with stopping contra ban. we have never did it effectively. not during the pro bigs, the drug war. if anything, we're more reluctant to go off to people, especially minorities and those more vulnerable and search them, check them for items, drugs, guns we don't want them to have. >> which raises another question. why is it that you almost

immediately, i always jump to the conclusion that the shooter is white. i've said this before. i didn't have the afternoon count. i know who this is. white guy whose isolated who is disturbed, loves guns, probably alone in his basement or alone in his room and then he stays playing violent video games. the profile is not that hard to figure out. of course, there's millions and millions of people like this, you know, across the country. why is that? >> part of it is cultural. american grew up as expansionist country. guns are part of our lives as we move further west. they were glorified for years. cowboys and indians and all this stuff, these things happen in europe actually. there was a terrible mass shooting, i think, in norway.

an extremist killed 70 kids. so these things do happen elsewhere. a lot of it is access to guns. we probably have the highest gun ownership rate in the world. >> the private ownership of firearms in the united states. >> what do we do as we talk about mental illness? what do we do if it turns out this guy was not mentally ill and he was just hateful. he wanted to go kill christians and line them up and ask them what is your religion? what do you do about that? >> let me just be fair about this. if you're that hateful, you're mentally ill. >> i understand but maybe he hasn't been to a psychiatrist and diagnosed. >> on the demographic point, just a correction. it's not true that the majority of mass killers and serial killers are white. it's equally distributed.

what they are always is men. always young men. what we have in america is a problem with young men killing a lot of people when they get the chance and i think an increasing copy cat problem because at some point someone decided hey, when you're upset with people you shoot up a school. >> like you said columbine, aurora, you keep going through it. >> no, you don't keep going through it. the conscious was shot up by an african american guy. the shooting in virginia with news anchors, the gentleman there was an african american. the problem against men, 98% of all crime is committed by men. it's the crimes generally. if we want to focus in on one

thing, it should be why young men between the ages of 15 and 30 taking out their anger and sense of isolation on schools and other targets. there's a copy cat problem here. also a problem with this sort of violence. >> let's bring in former assistance agent and an msnbc contributor, don, most of the reports say law enforcement from the moment they got the call to the moment the shooter had been neutralized, it was only about eight minutes. it was sad to say but police forces across the country are getting use to this kind of thing. >> yes, they are. the reality is virtually every large police department and small police departments across the country practice that kind of thing. the tactics have changed somewhat and use to be as a patrol officer you would roll up on a scene with somebody as a

weapon firing. you might hold the position as a tactical response. that's changed now officers are basically trained to go in and address the threat head on to neutralize the threat. it was going on at schools and large government pibuildings. police are getting better but it's a number of incidents we've seen. >> what do we do? the fbi and other law enforcement agencies have to just almost be fatalistic about the ability of stopping an active shooter before a few people are dead. it kind of reminds me, we were quoting john kennedy, if somebody wants to trade their life for me, they can. we can't do anything about it. >> it's such a difficult situation. as you guys pointed out, there's so many guns on the street and so many people mentally ill and

you got this overlay of the internet social media that throws fuel on the fire and it doesn't matter if you're following isis or white hate or black hate or whatever particular hate you believe in, you can find justification for these actions and i think that's why we see so much of this. it just like the perfect storm of crazy people with guns fuelled on by social media that can give them the mental justification to go out and take action. >> john, thank you very much. still ahead on morning joe, republican front runner donald trump joins us live plus doamag control. did kevin mccarthy do enough to make sure he became speaker of the house? first, bill karens whose watching the track of hurricane --

>> possibly clipping areas down there towards cape cova. it looks unlikely. as far as our friends in the bahamas, category four hurricanes sitting over the top. can't get many pictures out of these areas. we'll see those tomorrow as the storm moves away. now let's turn our attention to what we're dealing with on the east coast. historical rainfall and flooding. not associated with joaquin. the cold front is now a stationary front. tropical moisture pushing in on top of the cooler air. flash flood watches go from georgia to maryland. we're going to see rain in the carolinas. computers pinpointing 6-12 inches with some points at 16 inches of rain and finally, flood warnings from northern virginia beach to the jersey shores.

even though joaquin is not going to hit the east coast they're going to have a nasty storm. every high tide cycle we get is going to be worse over the next three days. we can see more spots with coastal flooding than what we saw with hurricane sandy. that's the degree of the coastal flooding through the weekend. more on this story and the other stories here coming up on morning joe. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. (friends gasp) the app where you put fruit hats on animals? i love that! guys, i'll be writing code that helps machines communicate. (interrupting) i just zazzied you. (phone vibrates) look at it! (friends giggle) i can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs... you name it. i'm going to transform the way the world works. (proudly) i programmed that hat. and i can do casaba melons. i'll be helping turbines power cities. i put a turbine on a cat. (friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition! and i'm jerry bell the third. i'm like a big bear and he's my little cub. this little guy is non-stop. he's always hanging out with his friends.

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the point i was trying to make and i'll be very clear. i wasn't saying the committee -- the committee is solely to get the truth out. what happened is you found out about a server. this committee's sole purpose is to find the truth about four americans killed that night. never my intention to say that. no one questions tray's integrity or this committee. it was never my intention to ever imply this committee is political. we all know it's not. >> some of the lawmakers say is this what we're going to see as speaker of the house. >> this is not what you're going to see as speaker of the house. this is stitchly the fact that this committee has created for

one sole purpose. >> peggy newman this morning writes he has the guts and hunger but does he have the brains to be speaker? >> i said it yesterday. imagine you're tray and spend a couple of years building the case and investigating looking into it and in one moment the rug is pulled out and it gives hillary clinton and her defenders all the ammunition. >> it's there forever. as we said in court, you put this qualifying evidence out there. you can't unring a bell. a judge can't unring a bell. this bell has been rung and it will hang around the committee for the rest of its tenure there. i've seen it in politics. there's nothing they can do to unring this bell and the

question at this point is, is this who you want to lead your conference after a decade of bumbling around? >> it's true. it's been stricken from the record, perhaps. the jury heard exactly what was said. >> it doesn't look like it at this point. the fact is i think he's doing a horrible job of taking it back. he doesn't understand the magnitude of the issue and or he can't fix it. the bell can't be unrung. it changes not only the hearings forever but the issue forever. if that guy doesn't get a lot of media training, when you're speaker you're judged like your presidential candidate. he's going to have a very rocky time trying to lead not just the

house conference. this is a moment not just in his life and career but in hillary clinton's chances to be president of the united states. >> also the history of the republican party. we've lost five of the last six votes. what happens in the next year and a half. republicans have got to figure out where he is up to the moment. maybe he is. i don't. i will tell you what was a horrific blunder. when you're asked what has the republican congress done and you're talking to sean manty whose your friend. that's home field advantage if you have ever had home field advantage and you cough up a

1-yard line. >> there's new poling in the democratic race that's showing hillary clinton's lead. she's down 18 points since july to 41% which is her current lead over senator bernie sanders who has risen nine points and closely followed by vice president joe biden up 12 points over the course of the summer. among the general electorate biden has the best favre rablt rating. a net positive 16 points while clinton has 12 points in negative territory. while voters describe biden with favorable and honest and trustworthy, 30% describe clinton as lialiar, dishonest, fake. when asked about her use of private e-mail as secretary of state, 60% of all voters said it

bothers them and asked whether the scandal hurts her in the general election. he thinks clinton has the background to run the country but added i don't know where this whole thing is going to go in terms of her e-mail server and if there's something in there that's going to turn out to a broke in the law. >> howard dean, a lot of nervous democrats off the record. >> you look at it and they're up 15 points. if you have that big of a lead you have to be thinking i'll have the fall, i'll have next year to clean up some other issues.

>> the poles actually are stating to mean something just because he's been under assault for the last whatever months, any months. i actually as you know i'm for hillary. i think there's a point at which her support doesn't get lower. i think the biden boom is not going to happen. joe may get in. he is a guy that loves the game. >> right. >> he's at 20 whatever percent in the poles. everybody loves him in the country. all the democrats love him. the whole country is deeply sympathetic with this horrendous personal tragedy he's had to endure and he's not in the race yet. tell me how this number goes up.

everybody in the race is going to have to explain a lot of things. i'm comfortable. as a supporter, i'm comfortable. >> i don't think he looked that comfortable. i'm sorry. looks very discomforting. >> i was chuckling a little bit. he got a little kevin mccarthy in him. he says whatever's on his mind. >> you mean the truth. >> that's what he thinks is the truth. >> hey, mark, hillary wasn't going to be up by 40 points over this thing. there was going to be a natural erosion. the standing as bernie sanders came up and potential as joe biden was there. is it the e-mail thing that's getting her or is there something else at play here? >> i think in general the e-mail thing speaks to larger themes about some of the unhappiness with clinton's way of operating. on the kevin mccarthy thing,

look, if the congressional hearings don't impact her, there's still the fbi investigation. i disagree with governor dean. sanders is very strong. joe biden has performed well in the debates. if he gets in, i think he will. that opens up a lot of possibilities. the national poles don't matter as much as the early states and there's a lot of pressure on hillary clinton in those two earlier states whereby every pole we've seen recently and in this state sanders is ahead of hillary clinton. i think joe biden could go up in the race and could go way up if democrats are looking for an alternative with hillary clinton and what the fbi does, for instance, joe biden could be well positioned to say we don't

want sanders, we don't want clinton, biden is there. >> the three issues critical in the hillary race to the nomination. >> iowa. >> she can't get drugged there. >> i think they can pass it off. if they do find something there, i think all bets are off and the democratic race is wide open and people are going to be driving into the race. >> looks like hillary clinton is set to go on saturday night live this weekend. reverend al sharpton set down. we're back in a moment.

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i'm going to say two words to you, donald trump.

>> he's been paranoia. really appealing to the worst instincts of human nature. i think it's dangerous, his demagogue ri is no longer amusing. >> he called you shrill. >> he's called me a lot of things. now that he's running against me. before he called me a great senator. that's what a demagogue does. they try to stir up the passions of people. >> that is what a demagogue does. they'll say one thing when they're running about how horrible a human being is and before they run they go to their weddings. >> oh, there's that. a preview we're going to get on the sunday debut of politics nation. i can't wait. >> this is huge. >> it was my idea. >> did i not tell you this was huge, it was going to be mass. >> reverend al sharpton joins us now. good to have you on board as well.

>> thank you. >> so the interview, i guess, you'll show us on sunday but give us more of a sense. >> we talked about donald trump and the whole question of who she would face but we really got into it and what he said and what it meant in terms of the political motive of the benghazi investigation and we talked a lot about why people should vote for her. i said i supported president obama over you in 08. on a drem cat rancic side, why should we vote for you now? we had a lot of things that bothered you on the right and left. we talked about the police reform, criminal justice, husband's crime bill and she was very, very forth coming. very, i think, ready for battle a little more than i thought. it was not a cake walk. i think more than just calling

mr. trump a demagogue, she got into it but she clearly had some strong words for mr. trump. >> we just read u.s.a. today pole earlier and a lot of others have strong words for hillary clinton. they talked about what she was going to do to try to turn the tide on americans who wen they're given her name, the first words that come to mind are uncomplimentary and deal with the fact they don't trust her. >> i didn't ask her about that pole. i asked her how she's going to present herself to america and how does she deal with a lot of the negative and she came with some of her polity positions. >> let me show you these numbers. 13% most frequently used word to describe hillary clinton. 8% say untrustworthy and fake. 8% smart and intelligent.

6% deceitful, sneaky and tricky. three out of four not complimentary. are you concerned as a democrat that someone who thes those values, are you concerned there's that much negativity around her name now? >> i'm concerned as anyone would be, especially with what you have at stake. i think that's why with what kevin did this week clarifies a lot of the pole numbers may have been. >> can we get you on camera? say thank you, kevin. >> thank you for coming out with what many of us felt was always true, mr. mccarthy. good luck as speaker. keep speaking up like that. >> you would like him to stay a speaker. >> run kevin run. i think that what he put out there is clearly going to clarify some of those numbers as it continues to get legs on. a lot of people say wait a minute, are we being soul of goods.

>> the cover of national review. trump, the good, the bad and ugly co-wrote the article. >> it's interesting that you wrote it with rich lowery because rich is so close to donald and surprised that actually jack lowery allowed that to happen. >> well, rich couldn't be here today because trump has prevailed on the fcc to ban him from the airways. >> yeah, of course. >> the good, the bad, the ugly. what's the good from the corner of the conservatives here that hasn't found a lot of good in donald trump. >> i think for one thing he has brought a sense of drama and showman ship that has been lacking in republican politics for a long time and that shouldn't be under estimated. he captured the attention to have people and the other republican candidates who i think are better public servants ought to learn from that.

another thing is that i think he does have a point, half a point, at least, on immigration. there has been a reluctance on the part of republican politicians to stand for reductions in immigration. a lot of republicans would like to see. there's been a distrust on the part of voters when they promise enforcement because they haven't followed through on it and trump has exploited that fact. >> inside it reads that trump wrongs the right. that's the headline in the peace. what way does the right not see eye to eye with donald trump. >> donald trump doesn't have a history of conservatism. in the past he's been for abortion. he's been for higher taxes, for national health insurance. >> explain and we know that, explain why he's now among the evangelicals.

>> it's interesting. in just the last two weeks, he's lost about a quarter of his support in the poles. so i would be very surprised if evangelicals or others end up voting for him when an actual primary comes around. there's a kp l of things. there's the immigration issue. two, it's his reputation for being tough and blunt and three, it's just a total disdain and contempt political class including the republican political class on the part of conservative voters. >> thank you very much. politics nation airs sundays at 8:00 a.m. beginning this weekend. thank you very, very much. >> thank you. >> donald trump joins us live in our next hour. coming up. beyond natural grain free pet food

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coming up at the top of the hour, the latest from roseburg, oregon. we'll hear from president obama who says the time to plo lit sie gun violence is now. plus donald trump joins us live. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. to take their act to the next level... before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time... 2% back at the grocery store... and 3% back on gas...

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of course, what's also routine is somebody somewhere will comment and say obama po lit sized this issue. this is something we should po lit size. it is relevant to our common life together. to the body politic. this is a political choice we make. to allow this to happen every few months in america. we are collectively answerable to those families who lose their loved ones because of our enaction. >> this morning, we continue to learn more about the mass shooting on the campus of the community college in roseberg,

oregon that left 10 dead and seven injured. we know the gunman, a 26-year-old chris merser is among the dead. >> family members of the shootings in the classrooms tell nbc news that the gunman asked people what religion they were before firing and was specifically targeting and shooting christians. multiple law enforcement sources tell nbc news four weapons were recovered from the scene, three handguns and a long gun similar to an a.r. style rifle. >> we have bloomberg politics with us and also want to bring in nbc news correspondent whose live in roseberg, oregon. you've spoken to relatives of vick victims inside the

classroom, what did we tell you? >> among the crowd a young woman who lost her brother josh gilbert. he died. he was 23 years old and he was studying to be a veterinarian and there was another young woman i talked to and she described how her brother described the shooting and said he saw the shooter ask many of his victims to stand up and answer whether or not they were christian and if they answered yes he would shoot them in the head and if they answered no or didn't answer then he would shoot them in the leg and move on. this person, j.j., survived. nbc news also talked to several other survivors of the shooting. >> last night i left my bag, wallet, car keys, everything. we ran. when we ran out of the building everyone went every which way. it was so chaotic. i think we were the first class to know something was up. everybody else was still in their classes.

we were telling people you have to get out and go and move. we don't know what's going on but you have to get out. we followed her down to the bookstore and told everybody, hey, we think there's a shooter. we don't know what's going on. you need to call the police. next thing you know we heard three or four more gunshots and everybody looked at each other and we knew something was going on. it was real. >> we heard two men arguing and a few seconds later it was multiple gunshots. everybody was screaming get under the table. one guy ran out of the classroom and got shot. a lady was leaving the classroom and he shot her in the arm and stomach. she fell back and it shut the door and kept him out of the classroom. >> many of them recovering at

mercy medical center. mika, joe. >> thank you so much, jacob. >> let's take a closer look at the serge of mass shootings in america. the washington post puts it this way. the data comes from the mass shooting tracker which counts incidents where at least four people were shot, killed or injured. according to statistics, 380 people have died this year along. there's still an increase. when looking at attacks that took place in public in which the shooter and the victims generally did not know each other and four or more people were murdered, the rate has tripled between 1982 and 2011 going from every 200 days to every 64 days in the three years between 2011 and 2014. looking at the active shooter situations regardless of the number of casualties, one took place between every 300 days

between 2000 and 2013. as for the toll on the nation's schools, roseberg is the 45th. this by the group every town for gun safety. it marks 142 similar scohool shootings sin sandy hook and third school shooting in oregon. >> vice president biden spoke emotionally about the trauma of losing a child. >> there were a few things worse than getting that phone call y saying your child is gone. your child is gone. or your brother or sister, husband, wife. and folks, part of the function or the political system today is there's an overwhelming

consensus in america on two things equally defensible. the second amendment in saying gun legislation relating to background checks and the ability to a second amendment doesn't say you can own a bah zoo cramerica, an f 15 with missles. you limit the type of weapon that's available. >> the vice president speaking out very aggressive on this issue. we can expect hillary clinton and other democrats to do the same. >> it's a consensus sus on the whole country. it's a universal national background check. the problem we were talking about earlier is mental health is an enormous issue here. it's not going to solve this problem.

you have to figure out how to separate mentally ill people from their guns and it's pointed out what do you do with people whose mentally ill and not in treatment? how do you identify them and identify them without the privacy. this is a really, really tough issue. >> that's a really great challenge, isn't it. >> it's a huge challenge. everything joe biden said is tr true. this is not a competition. this is a public policy debate. joe biden doesn't know how to fix this problem. i don't know how to fix this problem. i think it's fair to say you don't know how to fix this problem. it's a very complex question in a country with 300 to 350 million dpuns on the straight. the way they talk, they have the answer and there's forces in the country that say no, no, no. even though deep down they know their legislation works. >> it is complicated. we see it time and time again.

it's as willie said last hour, i support background checks. they have background checks in oregon where this took place. connecticut passed a lot of very aggressive gun control laws after sandy hook. they were aborted by most of the people in connecticut. if you look at the actual sandy hook shooting, none of the gun laws would have stopped what happened in sandy hook. we seem to keep chasing our tail here. sometimes there are no answers for these very difficult problems. >> there's no question difficult. i want to engage charles a little bit in a civil way. you know, everyone in the country in a leadership position, journalism, politics, et cetera should have a thirst and hunger and passion to try to come up with solutions to just talk about how other people's solutions, what works or this is a sociological issue. i don't think that's enough.

i completely agree with the president. people need to find solutions to this and not talk about what won't work and it's so complicated. we can't be the only country in the world that's like this. >> with respect, what's your plan? >> well, i think that the finding solutions are short term in terms of legislation, state and federal. then also. >> what decisions? >> coming up with ideas, i think some -- >> well, we can talk about it in a second. let me finish the second point. you say part of the issue involves young men. well, again, public policy people should come up with ideas longer term to try to deal with the question of what is causing young men to do this. >> we both agree they should. you don't have anymore ideas than i do. >> i'm not an expert in the field. i want to be civil. i'm not trying to criticize or attack you. all i'm saying is i listen to

your tone and it's about this is complicated, the other side's ideas won't work, this is not just a bad white man. i'm saying i want everybody in the country that has a public voice to find solutions to this, not talk about how complicated it is. i'm not a policy expert. i'm a journalist here to say we need passion to solve this, not talk about complexity and talk about the other side's ideas. >> it is complex and it is difficult. i didn't say -- >> what are you saying? you're saying no one has the answers, no one can do anything about it, let's not do anything. >> what i'm saying is everybody keeps saying we need to do something and that's it. >> yes, we do. >> that's it. what? >> i could think of a number of policy ideas that's worth trying and you would hate them. >> at least we can have a

debate. what is it you're proposing? >> like washington. >> let me make a few. >> i agreed with the vice president. sorry. >> let me make a few suggestions that might be helpful. first of all, universal background checks might be helpful. secondly, you brought the question up about the shooter in newtown. well, that's because the person that supplied the gun was killed by the shooter. if you had the people who supply the guns liable and there's lawsuits or criminal prosecutions, that might help. putting dealers on the hook, you have to be very careful about this because we get back into the privacy of mentally ill people. there are ways we can put pressure on people who supply the guns. not make them not supply the guns. i don't have a problem with that. but to make sure they have some responsibility who they sell too.

those are some things in the debate. >> ryan, i think one of the biggest things, you can't say that. that's a rude thing for you to say to charles. >> is there an idea you would support? i have an answer if you would like. >> i would like to say i think, as i was saying, i think it is an extraordinary complicated issue and i think one of the greatest dangers is that we do what we always do in washington and across the country. we have a major reaction to a tragedy that doesn't apply to the tragedy and doesn't stop the next tragedy and causes more problems instead of going something terrible happened today, let's pass legislation tomorrow. >> if i could answer the question mika posed, i think a variation on one of the ideas you proposed which is to prosecute guns are vail and people who are mentally ill of guns. i think in general making it a crime to give a gun to some

people who subsequently without any indication whatsoever submits a crime. i think if somebody is mentally ill and you have i reasonable -- the critic i'm making is not actually suggested there is no gun law that should ever be passed. it's before any details were known here, before they knew who the shooter was, where he had got the guns, the president came out, the white house came out and said we need to do these three things we always talk about. those three things didn't intersect with the shooting. that is a reaction and it's not helpful. >> all right. let's go to politics now. kevin mccarthy, the house republican whose leading the pack to become speaker of the house is in damage control mode. >> wow, you must really want to change the subject? >> short on votes to win the speaker out right he met with the freedom kau sus. he's trying to clier identify his comments on fox news while

conservatives like congressman thomas massey continue to criticize him. >> what kevin said, it's not appropriate here in congress. unfortunately, the democrats are right to criticize him. i would criticize him. i think he owes an apology to the families and probably to chairman tray. he's adminished the work he's done. >> the point i was trying to make and i'll be clear about this. i wasn't saying the committee -- that committee is solely to get the truth out. what happened with the truth, he found out about a server. this committee's sole purpose is to find the truth why four americans were killed. that's the work they've done, the hearings they've done and they've been applauded by all sides of the aisle. it was never my intention to say that. no one questions tray's integrity or this committee. it was never my intention to

imply this committee was political. we all know it's not. >> some of the lawmakers up there say is this who we're going to see as speaker of the house? >> this is not what you're going to see as speaker of the house. this is simply the fact that this committee created for one sole purpose. never my intention to imply anything. that's, i want to be very clear with my colleagues and this country of where we're going. >> okay. joining us now from washington nbc news. >> alex wanted us to move on and change topics. >> oh. >> exactly. i clarified that for you. political director and host of meet the press, chuck todd. on capitol hill, robert. good to have you both on board. any new reporting? is he going to make it to speaker of the house? >> elections are next week.

mccarthys are descending quiet easily. he has one long shot challenger of florida whose going to easily win this race. at the same time, i was on capitol hill yesterday. a lot of house republicans are concerned. they wonder is kevin mccarthy ready. >> i guess the question at this point, what do you think, joe, do you think he's ready? >> he doesn't look ready. willie, is kevin mccarthy ready? >> far be it for me. this probably ends up in terms of speakership. the bigger picture for hillary clinton we started in an interview this homorning with reverend sharpton, here's the guy who will be the speaker of the house saying explicitly that the benghazi investigation is po lit sized. >> i think it absolutely, what i love is the out ranrage. the hillary clinton campaign

couldn't been happier. meanwhile, she desperately wants to get out there and smile and almost thank kevin mccarthy for handing her an easy -- i think this has always been a kevin mccarthy has been always praised for his political instinct for his political savviness and this was him committing a washington gap saying something a lot of people might have believed. to watch him backtrack like this. what i've been amazed at is watch so many republicans chastise him. >> i think there's plenty of people in the republican base upset at mccarthy too for this. thai taking the benghazi committee seriously. they were told this is serious. if the leadership is letting the cat out of the bag it was nothing more than a political fix and remember, the creation

of the benghazi committee was to stop a shut down, it's going to make it harder to use a planned parent hood investigation committee as a way to calm the truths and stop a government shut down. i think he starts a speaker in a weaker position than he ever wanted to be. >> this is about the ninth committee that's investigated this. i think we're making a little, i think it's funny. i think it's a bit of a mountain out of a moe hill. i don't think anybody, certainly, most people were not taking this seriously. i use to love it when people would say benghazi because the word reminds people the republicans are nut jobs. i think this is fun but i don't make a lot out of this. nobody's ready for at a job when they go up. they learn and he's had a hard lesson and he'll probably be fine. his big problem is going to be in december. unless boehner can pull together with a lot of democrats a two

year budget agreement he's going to figure out what to do about a shut down. if they shut down in december republicans are going to get the blame for that. that's not going to be amusing and will hurt the republicans. >> also, a lot of americans see benghazi as more than evident republicans are nut jobs. they think about their relatives who died there, some who serve the country think about the fact it was the first ambassador killed since 1979. some look at benghazi and see something where the government lied to them in the beginning and couldn't get their stories straight for weeks at a time. maybe you and your friends when they hear benghazi think all republicans are nut jobs, but many in this country see a foreign policy failure, tragedy and embarrassment and issue that still hasn't been. >> that hasn't been investigated

nine times. >> that needs to be investigated. >> can you tell it doesn't need to be investigated? >> until the pole numbers drop. >> i'm not leading that parade and never had led that parade. robert costa. >> one of the big terms here and this is why a lot of house republicans are disappointed is they feel like they were having a chance for this to be a sober event for republicans to come across on benghazi and regardless of tray and how they handle it, they're fareful the democrats have something for secretary clinton to come into this room and have a different atmosphere and different political tent because of the kmebts. >> chuck will be watching meet the press. >> thank you so much. still ahead, the front runner for the republican nomination, donald trump joins us here on morning joe. we'll be right back. ds love to overcomplicate things.

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vrjts it is 24 past the hour.

joining us by phone donald trump. donald, good to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning. >> we played a sound bite from hillary clinton's interview with reverend al sharpton. take a look. >> i'm going to say two words, donald trump. what do you think? >> you know, reverend al, he has been stoking, prejudice and par know. he know i can't. i think it's dangerous, his demagogue ri is no longer amusing. >> he called you shrill. >> he's called me a lot of things. before he called me a great senator and great secretary of state. that's what a demagogue says. >> donald trump, your reaction. is there a concern that perhaps

you're tapping into negative forces in this country? >> no, she use to call me a genius. i've come a long way down. she was always very nice and everything. i guess it's a different world today. she's got problems and i would always be nice because i was a business man and a very succe successful person and i was nice to everybody regardless. that was my job to be nice to everybody. i didn't want to insult people. now i'm in a different position and we have to tell the facts the way the facts are. i'm a little surprised that they're telling but that's okay. she's been surprised at my mine also. >> she said you were stoking and prejudice. what do you about that? >> i disagree. i've watch it h i've watched the national review. they write up these stories without calling. there's a lot of animosity on both sides. it's an amazing thing.

the level of animosity is incredible. it would be nice if the republican party as an example, that's what we're thinking about now if they could all come together and be friendly. i'm a counter punch here. everything i say is when somebody says something about me and sort of interesting. hillary now is going at it too. you know, you have to take it as it is. >> as it is, we were just showing the national poling numbers here 23% with a 10 point lead over ben carson. in new hampshire the cnn pole shows you're at 26% with a 10 point lead. in iowa the most resent shows that you're 27% with a six point lead over ben carson. >> and leading big with the evangelicals. >> and florida 27 point lead over marco rubio. >> you've been harsh with marco lately. you called him a light weight

and say he's lazy. why do you say that? >> he doesn't show up for votes. he's got the worst voting record in the united states senate and you can't do that. other people are campaigning right now and they have much better records and you can't blame something on a campaign and again, you know, i was getting along very nicely with him and then about two weeks ago all of the sudden he starts hitting me, verbally, and i took it to him but i had no choice. again, it was so many people, beautiful, everything was great. the nice part is every single person so far that's hit me is either out of the campaign or has dropped so severely. i don't know what's going on but it's, i never attack first. i would like to see the republican party get along. >> hey donald, it's willie. good to talk to you this morning. if you were president of the united states you would have received a phone call sometime

yesterday afternoon that a guy walked into a community college in oregon, shot the place up, 10 dead, at least, at this point this morning. what would you have done to stop that? there's universal background checks in the state of oregon. we don't know how this guy got his gun or his mental state of well being. what would you have done? >> you have strong laws on the books. you're always going to have problems. we have millions and millions of people and millions of sick people all over the world. it can happen all over the world. it does happen all over the world, by the way, this is sort of unique to this country, the school shootings and you're going to have difficulty no matter what. i mean, if you could see that probably we'll find out like he did with numerous of the others that they were loaners and they were probably sick. often times this happens and the neighbors say we saw that about him and it looks like he could

be a problem but it's awfully hard to put somebody in an institution for the rest of their lives based on the fact he looks like he could be a problem. it's a terrible situation, it's huge mental illness. you're going to have these things happen and it's a horrible thing to behold. >> is it fair to say then your opinion is some people are going to slip through the cracks and there's not much you can do about it. >> it's not politically correct to say that but you're going to have difficulty. people are going to slip through the cracks and even if you did great mental health programs, people are going to slip through the cracks. i'm sure it's going to be found these people seem to go loaners. they call people and nobody wants to go out with them. it's the same old story. there's many people like that. what are you going to do? institutionalize everybody? so you're going to have

difficulties. you're going to have difficulties with many different things, not just this. that's the way the world works and by the way, that's the way the world always has worked, willie. >> mark. >> mr. trump. >> hi, mark. >> hi, how are you? >> does kevin mccarthy have good political instincts and should your party make him speaker of the house? >> i watched that and i was surprised about it. it can be taken both convways. he's got his view and other people obviously the democrats are running and hillary, in particular is running with it. it would have been nice if you didn't say it certainly. there would be no dispute and you get on with benghazi as a serious group of people that had been working for a long time. >> go ahead. >> should he be speaker of the

house? >> i would like to see somebody that's very tough and can negotiate with the democrats and i don't know that he's that person. somebody that we need somebody that's a very, very tough, smart cunning person. i don't know that that's him and oc obviously, the statement heard him badly in the eyes of some. >> go ahead. you said the other day and this is about the migrants, the serian refugees that if you win they're going back. did you really mean that? >> what i meant it's too bad in the world of television and sound bites because they take a long statement. i was up in new hampshire the other day. we had almost 4,000 people in a gymnasium. it was incredible. we had two rooms filled. one with television and it was a long statement at, what it said is i have watched the migration and it's a horrible thing to watch.

i've watched the migration and many of the people in the migration are men abled bodied, very strong young men. the second thing you say wait a minute, it started with 2 or 3,000. then 15. the last number i heard was 200,000. i said now wait. this could be a terrible security breech because if these people come over here and in fact, if they're isis, we're allowing tens of thousands of isis potentially isis fighters coming into our country. this could be one of the great military moves of all time because you know the feeling of isis toward the united states.

i said it's too big of a risk. besides that, europe should get involved. you look at saudi arabia, iran, the states. they're not putting up very much money. they sure as held have a lot of money. we're a deader nation. we have to straighten out our own nation first. i said i will tell them anybody that comes over, if i win, they're going back. >> donald you called it a military move. does that believe you mean this might be a strategy by isis to send some of these migrants that are not migrants to the united states and europe? >> no, yoebl that but it's possible that could very well be. who knows? we know nothing about these people. there's no identification. they have absolutely no identification. they show up and give a name. there's no papers, no paper work. we don't know where they came from. they are young and strong. if you take a look, look at the people coming in. they're young, strong men. you don't see that many women.

it's disproportionable. everybody's talking about that. when i heard 10 thousand and 3,000 i would say all right. now we're talking about 200,000. obama is getting carried away again with this whole thing about immigration. now we hear 200,000 and it could very well be isis. is it? i don't know. possibly not. maybe probably not. we can't take the chance. we have too many other problems. let europe handle it for a change. >> let's talk about ben carson brought in over $20 million in the third quarter. average donation was $51 and you brought that in. just in the third quarter. and he's, he seems to be picking up a good bit of momentum. is ben carson your biggest challenge right now to getting the republican nomination? >> i don't know. he's a nice man. we have a good relationship.

i'm sure he'll hit me. so far, we've had a good relationship. >> is he qualified to be president of the united states? do you think he's one of those tough negotiators? >> yeah, he's running and if he wins he's qualified. that's the way the system works. he's running. will anybody be able to do the job i'm going to do? absolutely not. he's running so therefore, he's qualified. >> would you hire him in your administration? >> i would. yes. absolutely. i would love to have that. absolutely. >> you think he's a tough negotiator? >> that i don't know. i would say it's not his wheel house. that i don't know. in certain elements of administration, i think he would be very good. you know. >> what would you hire him for? >> it's been interesting because the poling has been amazing for me and it's been really good for him and you add a couple of numbers together and in some cases you're up to 55-60%. the seminonpoliticians or people

that want to make change, right. real change, not obama change and it's amazing when you look at some of the numbers, actu actually. >> okay. >> donald trump, thank you very much. thanks for being on the show. >> thank you very much. great honor. >> coming up, the vatican clarifies why the pope had a secret meeting with kentucky clerk kim davis. that story is ahead. whatever you're doing, plan well and enjoy life... ♪ or, as we say at unitedhealthcare insurance company, go long. of course, how you plan is up to you. take healthcare. make sure you're covered for more than what just medicare pays... consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company... the only medicare supplement plans that carry the aarp name, and the ones that millions of people trust year after year. it's about having the coverage you need... plan well. enjoy life. go long. is youyou may be muddling through allergies.lode? try zyrtec®-d to powerfully clear your blocked nose

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40 past the hour.

netanyahu differed a sharp review to the u.n. general assembly yesterday. he criticized the leaders for supporting the iran nuclear dale and says it makes war more likely. he also accused ter ran of boosting weapons just within the last six months. >> it's not easy to oppose something that is embraced by the greatest powers in the world. throughout our history, the jewish people have learned the heavy price of silence and if the prime minister of the jewish states is someone who knows that history, i refuse to be silent. the days when the jewish people remain passive in the face of general enemies, those days are

over. >> but no part of his speech was heard louder than the intense moment of silence where he stood and stared. >> 70 years after the murder of 6 million jews, iran's rulers promise to destroy my country, murder my people and the response from this body, the response from nearly every one of the governments represented here has been absolutely nothing. utter silence. deafening silence.

perhaps you can understand why israel is not joining you in celebrating this deal. >> 45 seconds of silence. very effective. the vatican said today pope francis' meeting with kentucky clerk, kim davis, during his trip to u.s. said it should not be seen as a form of support. he went on to say that francis

met with several dozen people at the vatican's embassy just before leaving washington for new york. up next, the weather will be horrible but that's not stopping dozens of u.s. mayors from qu n convening in baltimore this weekend. the head of the u.s. conference of mayor, stephanie raulings joins us next. ♪ [engine revving] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ because at&t and directv are now one! which means you can access your dvr at the dmv.

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all right. joining us now the mayor of baltimore. she's the president of the u.s. conference of mayors and hosting mayors from all over the country. hopefully, it won't be a wash out watching the weather. why don't you give us a sense of what you're hoping to put together to present to the candidates and what issues you want them to focus on. >> we want the candidates in 2016 and the run up to 2016 to

focus on what's important to families and what's important to cities. i think what we're seeing with the campaign thus far is people are frustrated with washington, they're frustrated with congress, they're seeing debates about principles and policies that aren't hitting people where it matters. mayors create jobs and make things work. we want congress and washington to work as well. >> given the events of the past 24 hours, there are a lot of different ideas and obviously, the president spoke extremely emotionally and forcefully about getting some sort of laws pass. is there any consensus among the mayors as to what might be needed to make cities safer and get guns off the streets? >> i think the consensus is there's going to be change and not going to happen is the the congressional level and mayors

have to take the lead on the issue. we work hard to deal with the spike in homicide many cities have had. we're going to have to continue to deal with that partnership because the grid lock in washington d.c. is frustrating and it is really not serving the interest of the public and that's why we want congress, we want the presidential candidates to focus on what's important to families. we have issues that really matter. issues like job creation, housing and issues like infrastructure. things that need to be addressed and what we're seeing is these endless debates that really aren't moving our country forward. >> mayor raulings, it's billy. good -- it's willie this morning. for those of you who love to see the rash of shootings as soon as possible, those that are frustrated like cities like

yours and chicago seem to be the places we're seeing the most violence. what can you do inside your own city to prevent some of these deaths? >> one of the things prevent so deaths? >> one of the things, as i mentioned before, is we have embedded federal police within the police department. we establish our own direct relationship within our federal resources because we know the patchwork can't work. we have one gun store in the entire city. so we have to be connected with federal enforcement, dea, atf, fbi, everyone, to make sure that we are following the trends of where these guns are coming from and prosecuting this many federally. we have to get the offenders where they're in real jeopardy, they'll face real time. that's the approach we've taken.

>> what do you think is responsible for the spike in homicides in your city? >> i think all of us are struggling to identify the reason for the strike in violence. there are about 30 cities that are experiencing a spike in violence. if you look at our city, we have one this evening in common. we have violent, repeat offenders who have unfettered access to illegal guns. we need to cut down on the flow of illegal guns to our cities. i think the candidates have to step up and make some clear statements about what they're going to do about the illegal begun trade in our country. >> obviously nothing's changed at the federal level as you suggested on the gun control front, but in many cities where

there have been spikes, there have been more instruct gun control measures and crime is going up. >> you can't have a patchwork approach. baltimore has one gun store. even if we are as restrictive as possible on this one source of gun, that's not going to impact the illegal guns that are coming in from every direction into our city. we need a national approach to the issue of illegal guns. we need a national response to the issue of violence in our cities. i believe that the next president of the united states needs to have a national agenda for cities, including things that are important, like infrastructure as i mentioned before, education, housing, jobs. we want to hear that the mayors, democrats and republicans who work together very closely and

well together want to hear what they want to do for american families. we're really tired of the debates that might be entertaining but they're not really serving the people. >> mayor stephanie rawlings-blake, thank you very much. we'll be right back. ack. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? ♪

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>> there have about 294 mass shootings. president obama says this time we should be politicizing the shooting tragedy in oregon.

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my bag, my phone, my wallet, my car keys, everything. we just dropped everything and ran. and when we ran out of the building, everything was chaotic. as we were running by we were telling people, you have to get out, we have to go, you have to move. we don't know what's going on but you have to get out. we went down to the book store,

we told her hey, we think there's a shooter, you have to call the police and then we heard three more gunshots and we just looked at each other and we knew it was really. >> a shooting at umpqua community college. chris harper mercer, the shooter, was not a student at the school. >> family members of the students in the classroom told nbc news that the shooter specifically asked people if they were christians. here's douglas county sheriff addressing the media last night.

>> let me be very clear. i will not name the shooter. i will not give him the credit he probably sought prior to this horrific and cowardly act, media will get the name conformed in time, but you will never hear me mention his name. >> just before 11:00 a.m. local time police dispatcher received the first 911 calls from the school, the gunman opening fire in one of the classrooms near the science area. with us this morning, howard dean, writer for the national review, charles c.w. cook and managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin.

tom, a what else are we learning about the accused gunman? >> reporter: good morning. he is known as 26-year-old chris harper mercer, someone who lived in the area, as you pointed out not a student. we are on site today right at the base of umpqua community college. they've closed it off now. there's only one main access point to get in and out. we brought up the fact that fire dispatch was some of the first people to receive 911 calls. not far away i can see the dispatch center. we are finding out more about the online profile and history of what appeared to be a pretty disturbed young man. his dad still resides from california. when reporters were able to catch up with him, he was in ut are shock. >> i can't answer any questions

right now, i don't want to answer any questions right now. obviously it's been a devastating day, devastating for me and my family. i know you guys are here to do your job. all i ask is if you respect our privacy. shocked. shocked is all i can say. >> we know that chris harper mercer was newly rahutralized o campus. we're waiting to hear details of what happened. i wanted to show you the newspaper headline, this came out early yesterday that demonstrated they believed at least 13 people were dead. that number has been updated on the ten that lost their lives. this paper was still lying around at the hotel on the wednesday that sheriff hanlin

filed for another term. >> thomas roberts, thank you so much. >> in light of all this, lots take a closer look at mass shooting incidents recently, "washington post," according to their stats, 380 people have died in mass shootings alone. even when the definition of a mass shooting is narrowed, there's still an increase. in looking at attacks that took place in public in which the shooter and others did not know each other, the rate has tripled between 1982 and 2011.

going from every 200 days to every 64 days in the three years between 2011 and 2014. judging by analysis of active shooter situations regardless of another of casualties, one took place every three days between 2000 and 2015. these are the numbers stacked up next to terrorism deaths. roseburg, oregon is the 45th shooting on campus this year. the group every town for gun safety did this study. this is the third school shooting in oregon. >> a pew poll from this summer said more than eight in ten american favor background checks

for all gun sales. this includes 88% of democrats and 79% of republicans. a quinnipiac poll just two weeks ago shows support at 93% and there's a broad movement who would ban weapons for those were mentally ill. 47% say it more important to protect gun rights while 50% say it is the need to control gun ownership. according to a recent cbs poll, 32% think the laws are fine where they are and 13% think they should be looser.

a combined 52% say more strict laws would help a lot or little. a majority of americans have a positive view of gun ownership. 54% say it protects people while 40% find it puts people at risk. >> sole willi, willie, there ar to be people talking about how this tragedy will impact government going forward. president obama obviously very angry as he went out and gave another press conference on mass shootings. it is divided. americans are split. >> here's the problem with that argument for yesterday. gown control advocates want universal background checks. oregon has universal background checks. they just went into effect two months ago.

not just buying a gun at walmart but private as well. >> obviously there are over 200 million guns over american streets. it's like illegal immigration, people talking about we're going to round everybody up and mass deport. that's not going to happen. we're not going to get the 200 million guns off the street and americans wouldn't stand for it anyway. so what do we do in a state like oregon does everything that most golf advocates want done. we saw it in washington when i lived there. how do we move forward to lessen these tragic events? >> so let's look at the one this evening that's been common with all these shooters is that they're all mentally deranged.

i mean, every single one of them is crazy. i don't think there's been a single incident of a jihadist, doing that in this the first question is how can you keep mentally ill people from getting their hands on guns? that's a difficult question. >> it not hard if someone has a mental illness record. it done do any good to do it in oregon, new york or chicago if you can just import the guns. >> when i talked about this after sani hook, though, i talked about background checks, we needed to be much stricter with mentally ill people trying to get guns. then you have the privacy -- >> that's the big problem. people say, joe, i understand

what you're saying but if i want to own a gun to protect my family, i'm afraid to go to a sigh co tryst. >> you could theer am i going to subpoena records and put them in the fbi? i don't think so. in some cases it's obvious that people have long histories of mental illness. those we can stop. i don't know that this guy was in any treatment. >> mark halperin, what's the -- the president eangry yesterday. i saw an article last night that hillary clinton is being more aggressive on gun control issues than democrats have been in the past. as we look at this human tragedy, we understand it going to shape the debate on who's going to be the next president of the united states. what impact do you think it has,

mark? >> well, the president tried to grab the country by the lapel and shake hard and say i'm sick of coming into this briefing room and speaking about this. the reality the president tried to highlight. we're the only country that has these types of things. it something nobody in the country should stand for. i think leading democratic will hab go further as far as policy proposals.

here now is president obama just hours after the shooting took place. >> we are not the only country on earth that has people with mental illnesses or want to do harm to other people. we are the only advanced country on earth that sees these kinds of mass shootings every few months. somehow this has become routine. the reporting is routine, my response here at this podium ends up being routine, the conversation in the aftermath of it, we've become numb to this. we talked about this after

columbine and blacksburg, after tucson, after newtown, after aurora, after charleston. and of course what's also routine is that somebody somewhere will comment and say obama politicized this issue. well, this is something we should politicize. it is relevant to our common life together, to the body politic. this is a political choice that we make, to allow this to happen every few months in america. we collectively are answerable to those families who lose their loved ones because of our inaction. >> charles, an impassioned plea by the government. i do wonder, there is mental illness across the globe.

i guess howard would agree with me some european chris are far more advanced of taking care of mental illness than we in america are. we've been dragging our feet. what do we do? if you're a defender of the second amendment but you find these attacks abhorrent and states like oregon have down, quote, all the right things, what can we do to keep guns out of the hands of people with mental illnesses? >> i think it's very difficult. there's difference between saying are we utset, yes, we are and does the president have the slightest clue as to how we fix this? he proposed universal background checks. oregon had background checks as you say. the argument is that guns can come in from other states. but that's an anti-crime measure. that doesn't stop mass shootings.

obama also wanted a so-called assault weapons ban. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we're moments away from that. but first, bill karins. >> down in the central bahamas, that's where all the destruction is being done. imagine you're in your shelter with your family and your kids and 24 hours later, you still can't walk outside? we get these pictures late today or tomorrow, it's going to be a very ugly scene. pressure at 9:35. now it will slowly begin to exit and head up the coast. i got to show you these pictures

here. this is already dramatic scenes. this is the jersey shore, nothing to do with joaquin whatsoever. we're going to have the same effect for 72 hours. it's going to teak sectioake se dune with them every high tide cycle. there's the path, we're not worried about joaquin at all, we're worried about very heavy rain in north and east carolina, nothing to do what whatsoever with the actual hurricane. we're talking about the potential for some historic rainfall amounts, possibility of 15 inches across much of the state of south carolina. imagine what all that water is going to do as it makes its way to the rivers early next week. we'll be watching the flooding with major problems with coastal erosion and road being washed out from the jersey shore all

the way down to virginia. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ came to town spreading wisdom ♪ a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive?

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kevin mccarthy who is leading the pack to become speaker of the house is in damage control mode. he's trying to clarify his comments about the mission of the benghazi select committee. while some conservatives like conservative thomas massey continue to criticize him. >> what kevin said is like something you'd hear in a smoke-filled back room on "the house of cards."

i would criticize him. i think he owes an apology to the families and to chairman trey gowdy because he's diminished the work that chairman gowdy has done. >> the point i was trying to make, i wouldn't want to be very clear. that committee is solely to get the truth out. and in the ser ver you found out why four americans were that mig might, so it was never my intention to say that. >> no one equestiquestions trey integrity. >> some are going to say is this what you see from speaker of the house? >> this committee was committed for one sole purpose.

that's the work the committee has done. never my intention to imply anything. i want to be very clear with my colleagues, very clear with this country of where we're going. >> peggy noonan this morning writes "he's got the guts and the hunger but does he have the brains to be speaker?" >> i said it yesterday, imagine you're trey gowdy, you spent a couple years building this case and vetting and in one moment the rug is pald out. -- the rug is pulled out.

the bull has been rung. i've seen it in politics, there's nothing can you do to unring it bell. the point is -- i like kevin but is this who you want to lead your conference after a decade of bumbling around? >> it's true, it's been stricken from the record perhaps but the jury heard exactly what was said. does this jeopardize kevin mack car think's chance of being speaker? >> to he doesn't understand the magnitude of this issue or he can't fix it. the bell can't be unrung. it seems like he's on track to still be pooh stupid, as if that guy doesn't understand like "washington post" when you're speaker, you're going to be judged as very rocky time

trieding to lead not just the house budget committee because this is a seminal moment in the context of hillary clinton's chances to be president of the united states. >> we've lost 5 of the 6 last presidential elections in the popular vote. what happens over the next year and a half will determine whether we lose 6 out of 7, whether we lose the supreme court for two more years, l republicans have got to figure out whether he's up for the job. maybe he is. they work with him day in and day out.

>>. >> there's new polling in the democratic race that is showing hillary clinton's tightening lead. the form are secretary of state is down 18 points in july to 41%, swi her current lead over senator bernie sanders, closely followed by vice president joe biden up 12 points over the course of the summer. among the general electorate, biden has the best favorability rating, a net positive of 16 points while clinton is 12 points in negative territory. voters frequently described with word like favorable, honorable and trustworthy, 13% describe her as liar, dishonest,

untrustworthy and fake. 60% of all voters said her use of private e-mail will bother them. and the governor of colorado told the denver post he thinks clinton has the background to run the country but added "i don't know where this whole thing is going to go in terms of her e-mail server and whether there is something in there that is really going to turn out to have broken the law. it could turn out to be her death nell. >> and we'll be joined by the man whose father was shot and killed doing the daly news.

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♪ i know there's nothing to say ♪ >> 31 past the hour. the september jobs report is just out. let's go right to sara eisen for the numbers. not looking too good. >> no, not locking good. economists were looking for more than 200,000 jobs. this marks a slowdown in the pace of job creation in this country. the unemployment rate did stay

steady at 5.1%. that's the lowest rate we seen since the financial crisis. but in terms of the pace of the jobs we're creating, not the kind of numbers we want to see. the monthly average has been over 210,000 jobs. we're going to have to dig into the numbers and seep where the jobs are not being created. for instance, this economy has been pretty lumpy lately. there's weakness in manufacturing but strength in construction. so you've really got a tale of different siktonumber that up e. so that's why the next few

months are going to be. >> these numbers would have to be substantially higher to meet analyst forecasts. the biggest picture is what is the fed going to do? this is only going to confuse matters even more if you see an unemployment question come in and you have a debt limit, too. there's a lot of question marks over whether or not janet yellen will raise interest rates at the end of the year. >> you rook at the fact that actually had you growth for the last quarter revised almost 4%. if you're at the fed, you don't know whether this economy is coming or going. >> absolutely. that's sort of been the whole story with this entire recovery over the last few years. starts and stops.

certain parts of the manufacturing because it's exposed to whad so for the federal reserve, it's a predicament. do we go off of zero interest rates which we've had throughout the recovery, just to have room in things get worse and this is what's going on on wall street, this debate, and it's going on inside the for as well. we are going to hear from fed speakers today. investigators will be parse and maybe even thold off until next year. >> offer the fast past oun t--

two years. >> in the past there have been other growth engines around the world that the u.s. would turn to. now the u.s. is the significant growth engine, the only growth engine where we're seeing advancements. we see china continuing to decline. russia -- >> bianna, say with us if you can. we'll ask senator murphy what he can do following the mass shooting yesterday.

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we heard two american arguing and a few minutes later it was gunshot. one man ran out of the classroom and he got shot, and another woman opened the door and he told her to close the door and she got shot and as she fell back, she closed the door so she stopped him from coming to our room. >> senator, thank you so much for being with us. first of all, our thoughts and prayers are with you and everyone in your state -- >> actually lived in roseburg. >> you live in this area. tell us what you're learning this morning about the events of yesterday that we may not know. >> we're just in a state of complete shock, having come from

douglas county, having lived in roseburg, i could never have imagined this occurring opinion it's a tight-knit community. i know that right now everyone is just in shock and in grief and thank you for extending your thoughts and prayers. >> what do we know about the shooter and response. from everything we've heard, did police move as quickly as possible and is this avoidable? >> i'm not in a position to give you additional details that haven't been shared by officials in roseburg. i stand that public officials responded promptly, that there was a number of acts of bravery involved. i'm sure we'll learn more about that during the day to come.

>> you were speaker in the oregon house, correct? >> yes, that's correct. >> talk about oregon's gun laws. they're fairly progressive, aren't they? you have a background check in oregon, right? >> why, we yes, we do. when i was first in the legislature in 1999, we considered background kmeks and it actually ended up being done by -- we had a shooting last year at reynolds high school here in the outskirts of portland, and the oregon legislature has just passed a piece of legislation that would consider the craigs list gun shop. >> while we're talking

legislation, oregon does get branded as a progressive state on gun laws but doesn't prohibit the transfer of assault weapons, there's no gun license waiting period. in my home state in connecticut, they passed a permit to purchase regime in the early 90s and in the ten years after, a 40-year decline in gun killings. do you think this is a time to call for more stringent gun laws, senator? >> i think it's a time to be committed as public officials to trying to understand the details of columbine, the details of newtown, the details unfortunately now putting roseburg on this last, what can be more effect ive.

certainly problems with mental health, we have to scrutinize that more closely to see what we can do on that part of the puzzle. >> thank you for being with us again. we're all talking about you and your constituents. >> chris harper mercer was known as a withdrawn young man who wore the same outfit every day and was close to his mother who protected him. a young man with dark glasses, a shaved head but seemed to rye recoil from interaction. it sounds a bit like the shooter in newtown. >> let's bring in mr. parker, his daughter was murdered on

camera. he has vowed to make it his life's work to fight for stricter gun controls. thank you for being on the show this morning. mr. parker, you've been at this now for a few months in this battle. what have you found to be the biggest challenges? >> well, it's, you know, the reality is it's only been five weeks since alison's murder. here we are get being kicked in the gut again. i was watching an interview earlier this morning with mike mccall, who is the house homeland security chairman, and i found it very ironic that here's a guy that's supposed to be liking out for us, for homeland security. we are at war. what i found is i don't think there's any two -- any other way to say it, we're at war. we have -- we have domestic terrorism here in our own

country and just on the fbi's no-fly list, you'll find this ironic, there are a thousand peoplin the fbi's no-pfly list that congressman mccall blocked legislation to restrict these people from obtaining firearms. the gun lobby controls these politicians. i think it's totally disingenuous. the interview that i watched made we want to throw up. >> ronan. >> here's the thing, my heart aches for this tragedy and your personal tragedy but we hear these stories again and again, you guys know very well having covered this again and again. yet the public seems unmoved. bernie sanders got up and said americans are horrified but the numbers show there's never been a meaningful shift in public opinion that lasts after one of

these shootings. in the year between 2011 and 2014, the number of mass shootings tripled and at the same time a spike in the support for gun rights. >> i think that that sentiment is changing, i think it's changing rapidly every time one of these incidents happens. there is an exponential reaction that takes place all across the country. i've joined every town, a lot of people have joined every town for gun safety. frankly, if people want to join me in this fight and people have signed up to help us in the thousands, right now they can text n-o-w 877.

i had rifles, i went hunting when i was a kid. responsible gun owners want universal background checks. they want something to be done. we have to hold these politicians, these cowards like mike mccall and the politicians in my own state of virginia, we need to hold them accountable. i'm going across the straight with terry mcauliffe this month and we're going to call out these people who are not being responsible. >> mr. parker, we haven't forgotten your daughter. i'm just wondering how you're doing, how you all are coping. >> well, thank you for asking. i cry every day but this is what alison would want me to be doing. i'm sure that you guys, you knew who she was and even if you didn't know her, you knew about her. that's the thing. she was one of you guys. she was a journalist, and that's why this -- you guys are not the

journalistic community and the fraternity is not going to let this go away. that's another reason why the sentiment is changing. but it's tough. it really is. and then when you see another tragedy like this, it just brings it all back home. >> andy parker, thank you very much for joining us. >> it's such a complicated issue. it really is as far as you look at the polls and they go every different direction. howard dean, a progressive, charles, mika and me talking about this for three hours. there are no easy answers. people want easy answers. there just aren't any. >> this is one of the most difficult conversations this nation has to face. you talk about the issue of mental health as well. you look at this guy's background. he may have been odd and reclusive but then again he wasn't dangerous to society, he wasn't killing animals, he

wasn't somebody who was a threat to society, he was just a bit different and klee reclureclusi. could something have been done? i don't know. >> we were covering a story and you reminded me 11 people shot and killed with a handgun in philadelphia. but they weren't going to college, they were in the inner city and no one pays attention. >> i do think it's a little unseemly when wild class people was killed. just on the conversation, you say we need a national conversation. there are think three things brought up that need correcting. first you mentioned connecticut's laws. yes, there was a 40% we redux in crime --

>> they controlled for numerous other states and -- >> brendan, they created what they called a synthetic state, which was largely rhode island, which bucked the trend. >> they did both. they declined but not as much. >> no. secondly, you mention a hike in support for gun rights. that's absolutely right. that has coincided with a massive drop in gun climbs. in general the trend is going in the right direction. we should be encouraged by that. thirdly, the no-fly list, there's a -- if we're going to put in protections on that basis, we're going to have to put in better standards. >> it's hard to find out if

you're on the no-fly list. >> the numbers actually reveal something illuminating. millennials just by and large aren't more liberal on guns. they're about the same as their older come patriots. so for people looking forward to the next generation, not a lot of sign anything's going to change. >> we'll be right back in just a moment. listerine® total care helps prevent cavities, strengthens teeth and restores tooth enamel. it's an easy way to give listerine® total care to the total family. listerine® total care. one bottle, six benefits. power to your mouth™. and for kids starting at age six, listerine® smart rinse delivers extra cavity protection after brushing.

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>> so in chicago your mother's art exhibit was extraordinary, rom, the mayor was there. he's going to put it on lake shore drive, david axelrod, prague institute. >> now we're going to philadelphia. join me and my mother, we're going to be launching a series of discussions at brynn mar college. we'll talk about artistic and career pursuits that enrich your lives. bring your mom, your daughter, sister, and some men if you

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