. can you explain something to me? you're one of the leaders of the republican party, what is happening? [ laughter ] [ cheers and applause ] >> i would remind you that this time four years ago the leader in the polls in the republican, not for the republican nomination was herman cain followed by as i recall michele bachmann. so there's a lot more -- a lot more. i think -- >> how have you felt about the

bachmann-cain administration? >> hell of a job. even better than this one. >> making friends with john mccain. good morning, everybody. >> a republican's burden. >> october 6th, welcome to "morning joe." with us this morning we have ms nbc contributor mike barnacle. al hunt and gene robinson. could to have you all on board. >> willie you talked yesterday. you were part of the town hall with hillary. did you get a chance to talk to her? >> a little. >> about the yankees. you're a big yankee fan. >> we talked a little about her snl appearance a couple of nights before. it was, you know, it was interesting up there.

there was a roomful of people who were democrats and independents. and a lot of them just taking an informal survey were for bernie sanders and wanted to hear her side of it and interested in his message and he's winning in the polls. wanted to see if she could convince them one way or another they should vote for her over bernie sanders. i'm not sure she convinced them. savannah was tough on her. she didn't explain successfully about benghazi or the emails. >> yankees play off tonight. >> one game wild card playoff against the houston astros. facing a pitcher in houston who they haven't been able to touch in years. >> tomorrow night the cubbies, the cubbies. >> the cubs and pirates. two good teams.

>> of course, al hunt everybody knows the team they will meet in the playoff championship, the national league series will be none other than the nationals. how is the nats pitching looking? i'm looking for palpabon to close it down hard. >> he would choke if he did that. >> can you believe that? >> obviously they thought the manager was responsible. they fired him. as awful as it's been it's been dreadful. bryce harper had one of the great seasons in baseball. >> we'll get to that later. we'll get to news now. we'll talk about sports later, right? >> i think it's unlikely. >> "the washington post" is citing senior officials who say president obama is seriously

weighing a proposal to keep as many as 5,000 u.s. troops in afghanistan beyond 2016, the paper reports. the plan developed before the taliban initially took over kunduz in september and comes as new details about an air strike that hit that city over the weekend. the pentagon said it was afghan force and not u.s. troops that requested the strike and u.s. forces were not under direct fire. doctors without borders said it was a war crime regardless of who asked for it. here is richard engel. >> reporter: even in war this should never happen. the only trauma hospital in kunduz repeatedly attacked early saturday by u.s. air power. at least 22 killed, including doctors and patients. six reportedly burned in their beds. but did the u.s. know it was targeting a hospital? doctors without borders which

runs the hospital says it did. and calls it a war crime. >> hospitals and patients during war should be safe places where care can be given and this has been violated. >> reporter: survivors were transferred to other hospitals. the pentagon first said american troops had been in danger, but changed its story saying afghan forces were under fire. >> they were taking fire from enemy positions and as for air support from u.s. air forces. an air strike was called to eliminate the taliban threat. >> reporter: afghan officials say taliban fighters were firing from the hospital. doctors without borders denies that. >> this hospital is a fenced hospital like all our hospitals guarded by guards. only people inside the hospitals are patient, caretakers and staff. >> reporter: dock twourt border said it had given the u.s. military coordinates for the hospital and during the air strike pleaded for the bombing to stop calls that went

unheeded. >> wow. later this hour we'll speak with retired general jim jones. we'll talk about this and syria as well. >> willie, this president has learned from the past with iraq, especially, what happens when we move out. listen most americans want us to get out of iraq. i don't want to be in afghanistan. we got there in 2001. it's 2016 now. kids were 2 years old when we first got there that are in uniform now fighting in afghanistan. but the void left behind is so horrific, it looks like the president basically has gone to school on his own mistake from 2010, 2011. >> four years ago to go into afghanistan to make it a place not hospitable to the taliban or al qaeda.

now here we are 14 years later the taliban is taking major cities. what progress has been made. if we leave all together will it resume where it was 15 years ago? the answer is yes. president obama is looking at leaving maybe 5,000 forces behind and having these lily pad bases. but is 5,000 enough >> al hunt, people like me in 2009, 2010, 2011, most people were grousing let them fight their own wars. we spent enough money and spilled enough blood and then you read what's in the "new york times" we spent hundreds of billions of dollars trying to prop up foreign fighters. we're left with this horrific catch 22. are we in a constant state of war or do we let the world go to hell? >> joe, it's a terrible dilemma,

i think that if -- whether it's the iraqies or ofa afghanis, i became it on the iraqis. if we stayed there we would have prolonged the problem. >> we can blame the iraqies, and it is their fault they won't stand for a country that doesn't exist any more. look at the refugee crisis, look at the instability across the middle east, look at the instability that can come to washington, to new york. it's not just a blame game.

i mean i know you know that. present and the future have horrific choices to make. >> they do. we all can agree those choices are incredibly difficult and it's pretty hard to argue they are being joined in this campaign on either side. >> for more on this in a moment. let's get to politics now. hillary clinton went right after republicans on gun control during a town hall yesterday in new hampshire. she outlined what she called common sense approaches to tissue, including universal background checks and closing certain gun sale loopholes. but she alluded to using executive power as well if need be. clinton called out 2005 her republican rivals by name for their responses to last week's mass shooting in oregon. >> you know, on the republican side, mr. trump was asked about it and said something, you know, things like that happen in the

world. and governor bush said, yes, stuff happens. no. that's an admission of defeat and surrender to a problem that's killing 33,000 americans. it's time for us to say wait a minute, we're better than this. when the nra was on one of their, you know, tirades and call alcohol, tobacco and firearms enforcers jack booted thugs, president george h.w. bush resigned as an nra member and said no, i'm not going to be associated with that. [ applause ] so, i mean, ideally what i would love to see is gun owners responsible gun owners, hunters form a different organization and take back the second amendment from these extremists. [ applause ]

>> so, gun control is always, mike, a loser, it seems for democrats, but with what hillary clinton outlined yesterday you look at the numbers, actually -- if you just look at the poll numbers, universal background checks. supported by nine out of ten americans. eight out of ten republicans i think according to the latest pew poll. eight out of ten americans support that. closing the gun show loophole. supported by seven out of ten americans. it's the vast majority. you start talking about hand guns and you start talking about going beyond that. and then the support drops. but what hillary was talking about yesterday she's going to get a lot of people in the general election supporting her. >> those two elements you just mentioned are incredibly popular across this country among people who have common sense about guns. you won't take guns away from people. nobody is talking about that. there's one other opening she alluded to she didn't reference it specifically, it would

require courage, commitment and a constant hammering on it to get it done. the mother of the shooter, christopher harper mercer, there was a piece in the "times," among the 14 weapons that family had, ak-47 and ar-15. those weapons were design for afghanistan and iraq. they are military assault rivals. no good reason why legitimate hunters or legitimate gun owners would have ar-15s and ak-47s in their arsenal. they taught be banned from civilian use. it would take courage on the part of politicians to keep hammering it. i have a sense among legitimate hunters it's a winner. >> she wrote about her own use of firearms. she owns many as well. and knows very much about her son's purchasing of these guns.

he helped her understand the gun laws. it's kind of -- extremely disturbing -- >> i don't understand. we actually have -- same thing happened at sandy hook. at what point? i will say, there's a huge responsibility. let's talk about parental responsibility, when your children are acting the way they are acting under your own roof. i don't understand it. >> it's hard to do anything, joe. it's hard. it's hard for parents, especially for parents of adult children to get them -- you know, if they see the behavior and they see the problem rising, if no one has been hurt yet, if you can't prove the person is, you know, definitively a threat to himself or to others, it's

very difficult with our mental health system the way it is now to get the mandatory help some people need. >> that's what i was talking about yesterday on the "new york times" article, okay, what law could have passed and you go through all of them and at the end of the day it's what gene is saying. on most of the shootings if you want to arrest or detain or kick down doors of 100 million people you can tighten it, but there's not a quick easy law you can pass that stops a lot of these mass shootings. >> that's what i was going to say. sometimes it boils down not to a law, you can change some laws, but in these specific cases where these mass shooters it comes down to personal relationship inside a household and that's the last line of defense a lot of times. not a law but someone in the house who can step in. >> i disagree. no, i disagree. i don't think -- you can't let

the perfect be the enemy of the good. the brady bill, research shows it did diminish those. still a lot. if you do piecemeal, do little things which are hard to do, i agree with mike barnacle, ak-47s are not used to bag bambi. but 20% who is in opposition is all they care about. >> when you look at this story that you pointed out to, mike, you just wonder, this is the mother of a shooter who posted on yahoo! answers, this is obtained by the "new york times" on a site where she spent hours over the years answering medical questions and i'll read two little parts of it. she opened up the door about difficulties raising a son who used to bang his head against the wall and said that both she and her son struggled with asperger syndrome and autism

spectrum disorder. she tried to counsel others. in an online forum answering questions about state gun laws several years ago mrs. harper took a jab on lame states that kept loaded firearms in her home. she indicated she had ak-47s and ar-15 happen person was well versed in guns citing him as her source on information on gun laws. >> we all have kids. you get in an automobile with a kid. what does a kid do automatically. put his or her seat belt on. it took 20 years to convince some states to have seat belt laws. it took maybe almost 20 years to convince automobile manufacturers to make seat belts mandatory in automobiles. we can do this. >> but, again, the question is, and al you said you disagreed

with me. you are disagreeing with the general feeling of frustration that i have and the frustration is that there are no easy quick fixes. it always seems something happens, there's a mass shooting, we almedly react to it and then we say we need to pass background checks and we need to pass this and we need to pass that and it ends up that none of those specific pieces of legislation that we passed would have applied to it. so after sandy hook itches saying yes we need to pass these things and of course they wouldn't have stopped one of those precious children of being killed in sandy hook but we need to pass it anyway. after oregon same thing and everybody is waiting to see were these guns purchased illegally. again, i have been on this show many times saying that we need to pass common sense gun safety laws. but at the same time, willie, you just -- at the same time a

lot of times it seems like we're saying the stuff to make ourselves feel good, and after this thing -- i agree we got to do something. but like you said, the line of defense is a lot of times people inside the homes. i do think mental health is not a cop out. because every time in these situations it seems that there's somebody with the mental health situation where they are disconnected from society, they turn inward, they turn angry and i can tell you without getting specific to what i've seen, isolation, especially in men and i've spoken with a lot of people about this, for young men especially, the frustration of being shut out of all relationships causes anger to rise. and they become the victims, they turn inward, and if they

don't have the family support, there's not mental health counselling, then bad things happen. >> that's one of the things the shooter said online before, he didn't have a girlfriend, he didn't have people in his life and part of his frustration with the world. to al's point i was not suggests do nothing. what i was saying in a lot of these case with these shooters if they got their gun legally, passed a back ground check, if they are not diagnosed as having a mental illness just an angry person with a grudge what do you about that person? that's where family has to intercede because the government and laws don't catch that person. >> can't the government say it's inappropriate to have these massively powerful weapons. i would like have an elephant in my house. i don't think i would be allowed works i? i can go to africa and get a giraffe and put it in my house. no i would not. there are rules against these things. i know it sounds ridiculous but there are things we're not

allowed to have. why are we allowed to have these weapons that blow up, literally blow up animals if you were to go hunting with them? >> so, even michael bloomberg when we talked to him after sandy hook said assault weapons, really hard to define what that is. a lot of that has to do with more cosmetics and it does. a lot has more to do with cosmetics than anything else. as the mayor said, this is more of a feel good measure for gun control advocates -- hold on. as michael bloomberg saying that and that is not going to reduce the number of killings. in this situation, the guy was lining people up asking are you a christian or not. and when they said yes he shot them in the head. he can do that with a handgun. i'm not raining on everybody's parade and not here saying stuff

happens. i'm saying that we have mass shootings and we got to figure out a way to stop it. >> let's see, joe. let's see if an assault weapons ban which we used to have would have any impact and would tend to reduce it. i do agree with al that the perfect can't be the enemy of the good or the enemy of the well we think it ought to be good. we can't prove that it would reduce shootings to ban some of these weapons and to have universal true background checks. perhaps some sort of limit like you can only buy one gun a month or something like that? you can't make it more difficult to amass 13 or 14 powerful weapons in your house. you know, you look at a place like australia which is kind of a rollicking frontier society

like the united states. they had a horrific mass shooting in tasmania, actually, years ago and afterwards the nation took stock and they took very, very serious gun control measures, stuff that we wouldn't do here, but they have reduced gun violence in australia. substantially. it can to be done. >> australia, to be clear, confiscated guns. that won't happen in the united states even if a lot of people would like to it happen. it's worth pointing out that if you confiscated all the guns, if you ban guns there's still 350 million guns floating around. a criminal with a bad idea will get his hands on guns the way that a person who wants to do drugs can get drugs whenever they want them. i'm not being defeatist, i'm trying to be realistic there are so many laws out there, can you make more laws and still wouldn't capture the criminal element that wants to get his hands on guns. >> if we want to fix this problem we got to talk about it.

there are no easy answers. if you're worried about reducing the number of gun murders, then while we're talking about this we have to talk about stop-and-frisk. talk about aggressive policing in new york city and chicago across the country over the past year police have been back on their heels, murder rates have gone up. it's not a coincidence. look at the people who are murdered and we all pay attention when white people get murdered, at these mass killings. 60 people were murdered in chicago with guns in september. i would guess 90% of them from what i've seen by reading the chicago papers were black americans. yes, we got to talk about cutting the number of gun deaths, but conservatives will have to do things that make them feel uncomfortable.

>> it's democrats turn to play politics with the benghazi committee. standard or care with congressman mark sanford and bobby jindal and patrick kennedy joins us with his revealing new memoir on the hidden struggles of his famous family. first bill karins keeping an eye on the flooding in south carolina. >>ing devastation continues, six dam breaches alone. still worried about a couple more. flooding moves downstream. many small communities downstream from the midlands of south carolina that are still being evacuated and can't go back to their homes. listen to staggering numbers. 40,000 people in the city of columbia without clean drinking water. university of south carolina brought in hundred thousand bottles of water for their students. south carolina department of transportation says 328 roads are closed and 160 bridges are closed. we have many rivers too.

all because of too much water too fast. in charleston 17 inches. that was your storm total. in areas further upstream myrtle beach had 15 inches of rain. columbia you picked up your storm total was around 11 1/2 inches. lot of this was a third of your yearly total. rain has ended. storm is moving offshore. clearing skies. sunshine today. actual forecast for the next five days in south carolina looks fantastic forgoing through an event like this. you want warm weather and dry conditions. you're going to get both. but it will be weeks, months in some cases years until everything is back to normal in south carolina. leaving you a shot of washington, d.c. nice weather up and down the east coast. no problems whatsoever throughout the remainder of the week. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. so what about that stock? sure thing, right? actually, knowing the kind of risk that you're comfortable with, i'd steer clear.

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28 past the hour. hillary clinton, washington democrats are taking their turn in politicizing the against committee. yesterday they leaked secret testimony from clinton's chief of staff defying orders.

the committee's five democrats wrote in a letter to chairman trey gowdy, we believe it's time to begin releasing the transcripts of interviews conducted by the select committee in order to correct the public record after numerous inaccurate republican leaks. democrats have ripped republicans before accusing them of selectively leaking evidence about sydney blumenthal. in interviews and on campaign trail clinton has been calling out the committee's purpose and her campaign has now cut its first national ad using those comments by republican house majority leader kevin mccarthy. >> the republicans finally admit it. >> republican kevin mccarthy saying the committee investigating benghazi and clinton's e-mail was created to destroy her candidacy. >> we put together a benghazi

special committee. >> republicans spent millions fighting hilary. they are fighting for everything she supports. she will never stop supporting you. >> everybody makes mistakes but that was breathtakingly stupid. the wheels have come off the bus of trey gowdy's committee which he has tried to make as professional as possible and kevin mccarthy his own future speaker is loosening the bolts. >> finally we get the truth about benghazi. >> we don't get the truth about benghazi. you and people like you having a cheap line -- and hillary clinton yesterday was asked a question in which she turned, i'm shocked. four people died. >> the question was about her e-mails and everybody has used -- i was watching

"hardball" last night and they all used the sound bite talking about benghazi which was great. a great performance on her part going after kevin mccarthy. she was asked about the end males and she completely ignored savannah or whoever asked the question. >> you can tell that there was -- she had a stock answer and she was like shocked and stunned. kevin mccarthy handed it to her. again, the most offensive thing, willie, to me about this is that kevin mccarthy's answer was to a question what has the republican congress done. if you're telling me that the only thing you have done since republicans and independents and democrats put you in power in 2010 is that you dropped hillary clinton's poll numbers a couple of points, you have done a pathetic job and should just go home. >> that comment he made is jet fuel to her argument that this is a totally political exercise.

whenever she's asked about it her eyes get big. when savannah asked her about the emails and she said they were looking through my emails because of this benghazi examination. whenever she can she has the closing argument. >> and gene, what a long, long way we are from her last testimony before congress on this matter where she said what difference does it make? what difference does it make? >> in context she didn't say what difference does it make benghazi happened, what difference does it make my friend the ambassador died, three other americans died that's what we should be focusing on. we should focus on people who killed them. that was in context of not only a reasonable thing to say but heart felt because she and chris stevens were friends. that was her ambassador in

libya. i think it's -- of course, look, she has the political advantage now, but i think it's unfair to say that she, you know, she just kind of gives this big sob story. that was heart felt. that's true. she now gets to say it and people will listen. >> it wasn't an answer to the question. she was absolutely saying to herself, i've got to find a way to go where the republicans are weak and where i need to actually send a very important indignant message about how i've been treated by the republicans. she took it. >> the question was -- >> she ignored the question, correct, gene. >> let's tell people what the question was. if karl rove and george w. bush use ad private e-mail exclusively would you go as easy on them as you want people to go on you? she just didn't answer that

question. she press ad button that somebody gave her and went off. that was our point not that she wasn't -- >> do you understand that's why heart felt is -- i get it. >> i understand that. and i think everyone here, everyone around the table and al and i should be shocked that a politician would answer the question he or she wants to answer rather than the question she was asked. not that we've ever done that. kevin mccarthy should gate bouquet of flowers from the clinton campaign. >> it's bigger than that. this is a turning point. >> give a weekend vacation. >> on tomorrow's show presidential candidate carly fiorina will join us. i look forward to that. and still ahead this morning can republicans regain control of their party? no they can't. >> it's over in washington. >> seriously. al hunt asked that question in his latest column. we'll dig into it next on "morning joe".

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. 38 past the hour. joining us now for the most read opinion pages, msnbc contributor jonathan who was up way too early this morning. let me read from bloomberg view. al hunt you write in bloomberg view can republicans regain control of their the party. at both the presidential campaign and congressional levels the problems are

self-induced. the party fostered unrealistic expectations and the failure to meet them emboldened a nihilistic streak in a core of house republicans and with the likes ever donald trump. there is little agenda, lots of lashing out the best hope is that boehner who now can afford to igthe hard right, leaving lesley that will matters for his successor to handle. boehner is a skillful legislator but this may be a reach. yeah? especially i think with the election dynamics and mccarthy statements. >> i think it's a mess. al usually when a party is out of power for eight years they become a bit more rational because they know how damaging another eight years can be. that hasn't happened with washington republicans. >> it hasn't. usually they have an agenda. i remember going back to the '70s when jack kemp and others in congress forged an agenda on

which ronald reagan was able to run on. there's no agenda for the next nominee. your point earlier about all kevin mccarthy could say was we have hurt hillary's poll ratings in part because they haven't been able to deliver on anything else, and in part that is because they exaggerated what they could do. they never would repeal obamacare or slash spending but they could have come up with some kind of agenda that was incremental or vetoed. >> they won't do it. they have run against barack obama since 2008 and it has been devastating. the reason i ran for congress was because i saw and i said this before but it bears repeating here i saw john kasich a republican and tim penny a democrat put an alternate budget to bill clinton's tax increase in '93. i was dead set against the clinton tax increase and when i was inspired by what kasich and penny did, when i ran a year

later people asked what would do you. you don't like hillary health care what would you do. you can go with the conservative plan, chaffe plan. there wasn't a question i was asked that i couldn't point to something washington republicans were proposing. you can't do that now. repealing obamacare for the 47th time, that's not an answer the voters will buy. >> right. that was the example i was going to use. that for years the house republicans and congressional republicans were saying we're going to repeal obamacare. then it was repeal and replace obamacare. we never got replace part. they never offered an alternative plan. to al's piece talking about raising of the debt ceiling. i hope boehner gets a deal done

where they can raise the debt ceiling. i remember how scary it was dealing with a house congressional caucus, republican caucus that didn't want to raise the debt ceiling at all and we're going to go through that again with more like-minded republicans in the house. that's what's frightening to me. >> the problem with having a leader that's just sort of sitting there, taking care of things and trying to give you this or that. you don't do the big deals. i told kasich that story about a year or two ago. newt opened it up for a vote and how many of you want to put together an alternate budget with kasich. he said of 200 members there, only three. newt looked at it and said screw you we're going it anyway. it changed the course of that debate. and gingrich was not a guy that sat back and played it safe.

and there were policies for everything. everything bill clinton did there was an alternate policy. it wasn't just repeal it. we don't like this crime bill this is what we're going do. we don't like this health care plan here's what we'll do. you don't have republicans doing that now. they are crouched, they are scared, and they are lotion. >> jonathan, thank you very much. coming up, russia has a clear partner in syria's civil war. the united states? not so much. former national security adviser general jim jones joins us with his take on a battle zone that's growing more complicated by the day. we'll be right back with more "morning joe". for paying on time. and then one day you tap the bumper of a station wagon. no big deal... until your insurance company jacks up your rates. you freak out. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? hey insurance companies, news flash. nobody's perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness,

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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ when broker chris hill stays at laquinta he fires up the free wifi, with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before! so he can rapidly prepare his presentation. and when he perfects his pitch, do you know what chris can do? and that is my recommendation. let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! he's ready. la quinta inns & suites take care of you, so you can take care of business. book your next stay at lq.com! la quinta! with us now we got former national security adviser now the president of the jones group international, retired general jim jones. >> and at the end of the table, direct majority of the earth

institute at columbia university, economist jeffrey saks. his "new york times" best seller "the end of poverty." with a release of a special edition. great to have you on the show. >> if we knew you were coming we would have baked you a cake. general jones, let's start with afghanistan this morning the president is talking about the possibility of staying there another five or 10 years. do we have an alternative? >> well, i think under president ghani, we have a good alternative. president ghani is all together different from his predecessor, president karzai who was disappointing, particularly in the key areas of rebuilding the economy and governance and rule of law. i think it's got to be an application of three things. we have a great international

team and i think under the leadership of president begany there's hope there. what happens next door in pakistan will have a lot to do with that. >> it's hopeless, cost us trillion dollars. this weekend we bombed a doctors without borders hospital killing a dozen doctors and dozens of wounded patients in the hospital. it's a disaster. it's not a part of individual personalities okay we took out the taliban leader now the next one is more effective. this goes on and on and on, an endless war. >> what would you do, jeffrey? >> we created all of these messes from afghanistan, iraq, syria, libya. we have to stop overthrowing governments and work politically, diplomatically with other powers who have an chris iannetta stability. that we haven't done. we've gone in by ourselves each

time and end up with this colossal now decades long mass bloodshed that just continues. >> mike barnacle. >> with regard to doctors without borders, general can you speak to the reality what war is. it's not a video game as most people in america think. it's filled with clamor, conflict and danger. in this regard in afghanistan and not just this time the fact that the united states now were so opposed to putting troops on the ground anywhere, we fight wars from the air which is inherently dangerous without specific spotters on the ground. could you speak to those two element? >> i do believe that you have to -- if you're going to use the military, it's very, very hard to achieve anything lasting on the ground just simple ly throu

air power. it has to be an air-ground team. has to be an air-ground-sea team. it has to be a well trained group that is directing things and in the case of the tragic bombing of the hospital, i think that speaks to the fact that you really, really need to be very careful and you really need to have qualified people on the ground that are there on the scene, that know exactly what they are doing. but i do think that whether it's iraq or afghanistan, i think victory through air power is probably the long road to success. >> well, i mean with all due respect hasn't that been tried and if you could, general jones speak to what dr. sachs was saying because now we're looking at other potential trouble spots, pakistan, but afghanistan continues to be a place where we

keep having to invest and invest and invest and invest and it doesn't seem to really turn around, get better or bring us to a place where we want to be. and what about bringing other countries in that could work with us on this? >> well, i think that's exactly correct. my first point would be that if you only invest in security, and you only spend money to defeat the enemy and you're not doing enough to motivate the people of afghanistan so they can see that there's a better way ahead, a better life for them economically, and if you're not making fundamental changes in governance and rule of law, then all of those three things apply to the same time, you're probably not on the right track and that's the mistake of the karzai regime, i think is that they focused uniquely on

security and didn't do much to turn the economy around. and i think president ghani has the right view. he's the right guy. he's brilliant. and he has the welfare of the people in mind. i think internationally the united states should lead in trying to get all three of those instruments working together and i think we might have a chance. but i also want to caveat that by saying the behavior of pakistan next door has a lot to do with how that gill work out. >> general jones thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> jeffrey sachs i want to talk about this "wall street journal" headline, u.s. backed rebels in syria. you've been saying a lot of problems in syria come from the fact we quietly have been trying to undermine the assad government.

>> i said four years ago when president obama first said assad must go i was sitting here and i said what? what does that hasn't? how are we going to do that? another cia botched operation. i sat at the table four years ago. cia is the biggest failed institution in american history. period. we don't know most of the story because it's all secret, all deniable, we don't know. cia has played a role trying to overthrow governments across the region that have us in war now every where. >> are we better with the southern power? >> with assad we were close already in 2012 to a diplomatic agreement to fight the real monsters together with russia, china, the rest of the security council, the u.s. held out because it said no, no, we're fighting assad. that was three years ago. this is a disaster. >> jeffrey, i'm playing devil's advocate here, but assad is a

devil. how do we move forward like nothing has happened with a guy that's used chemical weapons against his people, barrel bombing, all these things. >> we think we can change regimes as we like and somehow find a solution. now we've had about 40 years of doing this and recently we tried it in libya. mass disaster. we tried it in iraq. mass disaster. we tried it in syria. mass disaster. we should think if we don't have some other allies around the table diplomatically this stuff doesn't work. ate failure again and again. >> we've replaced secular thugs with religious fanatics. >> exactly. >> jeffrey sachs, thank you very much. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe". ♪

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♪ >> if you take just chip timberlake from tea 90s, add 40 years equals rand paul. [ laughter ] here's another one. herman cain plus ambien equals ben carson. there you go. larry david plus sticking your

finger in electrical socket, bern sanders. and gene robinson still with us. good to have you all on board this morning. >> it's great to have everybody here. let me start with a really quick question. al hunt wrote a column talking about the republican party and the poor state that the washington republican party is in right now. how bad are things for washington republicans? >> it's unprecedentedly bad. you have more than half of the republican electorate manifesting itself in primaries in open rebellion of the political establishment of the party. the leadership of congress. reviled not just by the american people but by republican voters

in particular and we're at really an unprecedented moment in -- >> why is there such a divide between state and local republicans who are popular and doing great across the country, and washington republicans who are reviled? >> republicans governing states have actual responsibility. and they fulfill that responsibility on a daily basis. >> they pass a budget. >> they have to do things. you look at the state of red state america, these states are prospering, they are doing great, economies are growing. look at the state of texas, for example. 8% of the population, 33% of the private-sector job growth over the last ten years in the country. you look at states in the rocky mountain west, states like utah where i live, these states are thriving. they are doing great. you look at nikki haley in south carolina. you saw moments of leadership earlier this year after the tragic shooting.

we have great republican governors out across the country. when we talk about these issues in washington, d.c., not only are there no ideas, not only are there no policies, there's no capacity to articulate those ideas or policies if there were any like newt gingrich used to be able to do, whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him, he set an agenda. this notion that we will default on the full faith and credit of the united states, something the country has never done for a civil war, world war, assassinations, great depression, this is not a conservative idea. it's an absolutely radical idea that's embraced as conservatism by people who as a general proposition would be completely and utterly unemployable in the private-sector. >> certainly, we've had an

attitude we won't do end deals to keep our company going if we don't agree with deals 100%. democratic side really quickly because we have to be even here. even handed. >> i refuse to say the democrats what steve said. >> not all republicans but some. >> i'm talking washington republicans. certainly what's happened over the past couple of years. but on the settlement side, hillary clinton would be 69 when she gets elected, 71, 72-year-old is thinking about running against her. and how old is bernie? >> 74. >> bernie is 74. where are the young leaders? where are the barack obamas of the next generation? >> the barack obamas of the next generation are in the states, as steve said. we have some really exciting leaders moving up the ranks in the seats also. but, of course in 2010 and 2014 we had a lot of our next generation wiped out by our mid-term losses and that's a reality for the democratic party. i think it's a challenge for the democratic party.

but there are some good leader both in washington and in the states who are moving up and we got some exciting senate candidates running this time. i feel they are coming along but certainly our losses over the last six years took out a lot of our people. >> which points so much frustration to the american people. historic landslides in 2010 and 2014 and what's there to show for it. >> reporting in this moaning's "the washington post" examines why some rural democrats who rejected barack obama for hillary clinton in 2008 are now turning to a socialist senator from vermont at a rally for the united mine workers of america in west virginia broad support important bernie sanders even though sanders has never campaigned there. quote at friday's rally in morgantown, miner after miner said they basically agreed with the former mayor of burlington more than they agreed with clinton. several were aware that sanders had walked picket lines something that resonated as they packed a hotel ballroom to

demand that washington fully fun umwa pensions. sanders in the race is keeping many unions neutral. and yesterday sanders blasted the pacific trade agreement. wall street and other big corporations have won again. it is time for the rest of us to stop letting multinational corporations rig the system to pad their profits at our expense. >> union, growing union threat to hillary clinton. >> she won the nea the other day. when he talks about wall street and corporations he's tapping into a vein that's out there among many democrats and independent that the game is

rigged and he's owned that vein since 1962 since he was at the university of chicago protesting. i think when hillary clinton talks about these issues of corporations and wall street, it's a harder sell because she's been in bed with some, she gives speeches to goldman sachs. bernie sanders has lived this fight his entire life. it's that authenticity. >> he's fighting it again today in washington. >> it's not just the question of the economic inequality. what bernie sanders is running against is literally the power structure in this country and that's what he's done since he was at the university of washington fup read his emails which i do every day, why not a revolution? why would we tinker at the edge when is we can go directly at the problem. and it is a vein in the democratic party that's been growing really since 2008. it was the elizabeth warren winning of the party. it's now very much a bernie sanders winning as well. >> steve schmidt said if you're running against the establishment in washington,

d.c. that's the clintons. not only washington but in new york, on wall street, hillary clinton was the senator from wall street for several years here. she said she wasn't -- she and bill clinton weren't that wealthy because they hang out with a lot of billionaires and a lot of private jets. i'm not knocking them. i would like to have a lot of private jets and a lot of billion taos. as a capitalist i'm fine with that. but in the democratic party an us versus them campaign hillary clinton loses to bernie sanders every time. >> we don't talk about truth phenomenon going on in american politics enough. in the first one is the connection between bernie sanders voters and the republican voters that are supporting these outsider candidates, carson, trump, carly fiorina. all of them together are screaming at the establishment whether they be democrats or republicans, their belief that none of this is on the level any more. it's a rigged game, a rigged system where big is screwing

small. and the regular guy is taking it every day. then in the democratic party, let's go back to 1992. we have this moment in history where bill clinton makes an unelectable national democratic party electable again. and that presidency culminates at some level with its great triumph moderate democratic president, republican congress where we move in surpluses in the country. he says our era of big government is over. we have not covered enough the dramatic shift to the left in the democratic party over the last six, seven years of the obama presidency. what you see now playing out is a debate between clintonism, centrism and manifested into the sanders campaign whether choind by elizabeth warren, by barack obama, you will now see this contest played out in full over the remaining days of this democratic primary contest and

this debate will be fascinating to watch how hillary clinton defends centirism versus a left of democrat party. >> donald trump is back in the news. he now has sent rubio's washington campaign office what the office described as a care package. trump's campaign confirms delivery of the case of trump ice natural spring water with trump's face pictured on every bottle along with two make it great again american towels and a note since you're always sweating we thought could you use some water. enjoy. rubio famously paused during his 2013 state of the union response to reach for a drink from a bottle of water and something that he's tried to make light of in his campaign. >> most important preparation for a big game or big speech? make sure there's water nearby.

like right now. >> all right. >> i don't know why he dwells on that. i don't think anyone cares. >> gene robinson? >> he should let that go. he should really -- he should just stop reminding people of that dorkish moment of his. >> i saw him on c-span speak to the voters value. his dry mouth. i have dry mouth. >> this is great. >> i don't know if it's a condition or what is it. he consume as lot of water. family value summit or something a couple of weeks ago. here's donald trump, and this is the new way that this is campaigning, talking about pithy, mean and powerful how trump mastered twitter for the 2016 race. and it's actually working, isn't it? >> it's worked in the sense that donald trump has climbed to the

top of the polls inside the republican primary. you now see donald trump slipping back from his high watermark. the fundamental test of whether you win your party's nomination, whether you become president of the united states is your capacity for resiliency. if you're going to win you have to walk lonely miles through the shadow of political death. so we see donald trump slipping back now. we see him on chuck todd saying hey my numbers go down i'll get out of the rest. >> he's first in iowa. >> we should look at these polls not in terms of the snapshot image they provide but what glimpse into the momentum of the race. because they indicate what's going to happen next. so donald trump -- >> you think trump is on a downward turn? >> absolutely on a downward turn against his other opponents. the total vote share with these outsider candidates is roughly the same. they are trading positions.

they are trading numbers between the three of them. we get into the next debate with these numbers, donald trump cannot have another performance like he at the reagan library. really going to have to step up his game. >> so, remember that commercial that trump made about rubio's age, sort of going after marco. in an interview, senator rubio responded to attacks from his republican rivals that he's too inexperienced to be president. >> your leadership said you're a little obamaish. what do you say about is that >> i don't think anybody running on the republican side is like obama. when they say that it means they don't have enough experience. it's deeper than the number of years. if he been in the senate for 50 years i think he still would have met some of the failures he's meeting because his ideas

don't work. >> we were talking about this before. off camera that he has the same resume as barack obama who was a state senator who shared an aide. you know, like one and a half aides or something like that. >> one of the things that's fascinating about this year you have three first term senators in the republican party running for the presidency and even ten years ago i think that would have been unheard of. i think president obama has changed that standard and we can all look back and decide whether or not that's a good thing. i want to go to something that steve was saying, fwhorks the democratic party earlier because i do not believe this is a centrist versus left winning contest that we have going on in this party. i believe the fundamental issue facing the democratic party is what happens after obama, what direction we go and it's less ideological and much more around a core democratic party issue and which ones you make

priorities. >> it seems overwhelmingly ideological. >> i think that hillary clinton has consistently throughout her career really positioned herself as somebody fighting for middle class. her husband did in 1992. >> no doubt the clintons are a centrist and bernie sanders is proud to be a socialist. >> here's the issue to watch. the transpacific partnership. watch how the candidates in both parties come out on this free trade agreement. because free trade agreements or popular in washington, they are popular amongst centrists of both parties and they are not popular at all among the real left of the democratic party and among the outsiders in the republican party. >> hillary clinton wouldn't tell us where she stood on the free trade pact. she wouldn't tell us where she

stood on keystone. hillary clinton delayed -- >> they are going to have to tell us. they are going to have to tell us how they stand on the transpacific -- >> i'm not going to look at somebody that won't come out on keystone, that won't come out on free trade and say boy she's fighting for our values. it's very clear she's been calculating where bernie sanders has charged forward. >> where it's heading, just my own assessment, we're heading in to our first debate. we can see how people position. but at the end of the day it will be we all agree on the same goals. the question is who can get us there. who can be effective. who knows how to get things done. the other undercurrent of frustration is this idea nothing gets done. i actually think that's a big thing you'll see in the democratic primary. >> we'll see this connection between the bernie sanders voters and trump voters on trade agreement in the pacific. where donald trump talking about

fair trade, the left of the democratic party in opposition, you'll see one of these unusual coalitions left-right come together in opposition to this. so this will be a fault line issue inside the republican electorate as well. i would disagree with anita in this regard. there will always be a challenge to hillary clinton's ideological left. how much currency that challenge has is unknown. we see it. we see inside democratic party ideological challenge to her left and it's drawing crowds in the form of bernie sanders 20, 25,000 people. huge amount of energy on the left of the democratic party and i think you'll see this play out in a profound way in this first debate. >> all right. anita dunn, thank you very much. >> thank you as well. steve schmidt stay with us. still ahead we'll be joined by bobby jindal and patrick kennedy

with a tell all book on what is likely to be a member of stored. rain has stopped but that doesn't mean south carolina is out of the woods yet as dams begin to breach. we'll get an up date from mark sanford and his take on the race for the new speaker of the house. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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have been closed. fresh water has been cut off to tens of thousands of people. joining us from south carolina, republican congressman mark sanford. mark, good to have you on the show. what's the latest? we hear the death toll is at 13 but so many homes destroyed. what can you tell us? >> what i can tell you is the pictures tell it all which is

catastrophic flooding in south carolina. people displaced. you know, there's about 30 red cross shelters open across the state. the number of bridges and roads out is unprecedented. and so we have a real snarl particularly as you move inland up towards columbia, south carolina which is the epicenter of what's occurred. almost 20 dams have broken, breached in the state and in some ways the worst of the flooding still ahead of us because the water that came down in the upstate, in the midlands is heading to the coast. the river outside of charleston will not crest until this weekend so more bad to come. >> congressman, from what we understand, a lot of the flooding what you just pointed out occurred inland. i'm wondering there must be a huge percentage of residents who didn't have flood insurance given where they were living and now that their homes have been

flooded they obviously are without flood insurance. what can to be done to help those homeowners if anything? >> well, those that are in the major declaration area will actually be eligible for individual assistance. the way it works through fema capped out at around $30,000. you could be looking at again, fairly catastrophic losses for any number of those families that didn't have federal flood insurance. they may have been in a flood plain. but they frankly don't think about it like people do along the coast where you think of hurricanes as a regular event. >> congressman, it's willie geist. it feels to me days leading up to it, we knew the rains were coming. feels like the state government did all it could to warn the people. do you feel the state of south carolina was adequately prepared important for this?

>> yes and no. officials did as much as they could do from a meteorological standpoint. it was indeed a perfect storm, the way that a low pressure system, a cold front and hurricane offshore combined to create i mean unprecedented levels of rain. a lot of these areas saw two feet of rain over the weekend. and that was precede by more rain that came ahead and more rain that's still coming after. so, there's not a lot you can do. ice not like a hurricane where in you can see it coming five days out and you begin to look at that storm forecast narrow, narrows and you sort of talk about, talk about it. the old halt i used to wear in the state, goes with the exercise. you look a week out at some of these storms in trying to get ready. you don't have that in a cold front that stalls with a low pressure system. >> mark, we're thinking about

you guys and praying for you. we appreciate you coming on to talk about that. we want to talk to you also very quickly what's happening in washington. this is "the washington post" talking about the leadership fight has been pushed back in the house of representatives. and also mccarthy's bid for house speaker will fall short utah republican predicts. what's going on in the race for speaker, and for a guy like you, what provides the best hope of change for this republican caucus that hasn't been able to, unfortunately, break through over the past couple of years? >> i guess, you know, i was listening to your program earlier you were talking about bernie sanders versus hill lie and the donald trump phenomenon. those same biases or frustrations are feeding in

essence the speakers race pup have insider versus outsider. exact duplication of what's occurring at the national level, at the presidential level that's forming up within the speakers race. kevin is a very capable guy. i think he's a good communicator, et cetera. but he's seen as more establishment rightly or wrongly. he's still relatively new. he's seen that way. you have an outsider challenge coming from former speaker of the house of representatives in florida in jason chavez. there will be interviews tonight for the speakers race up in washington with what's called the freedom caucus. but the same dynamics are playing out that you see at the national race and the presidential race. >> if i could ask you about his comments, kevin mccarthy's

comments about the benghazi committee. a lot of people are calling it a gaffe or a mistake. is that often truth? >> again, it's one person's perspective. i don't think if you were to talk to trey gowdy right now, i think he's one of the most earnest human beings you would find on earth. you can like or dislike what he's going through but he's methodical as a prosecutor. he was a great prosecutor here in the state of south carolina. and he's just making his case. other people read into it based on their own politics as to what he is or isn't doing. he's just trying to get to truth. >> all right. mark, thank you so much as always for being with us. >> and coming up, bobby jindal suddenly finds himself in play in iowa. he joins us ahead on what's behind his sudden rise and mark halperin shares with us the secret to getting hillary clinton to answer questions on

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it's gotten squarer. over the years. brighter. bigger. thinner. even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. a reporter snoens for almost a quarter century standing irans away from her asks her questions and she friends she can't hear her. >> what's your message to nra. >> how are you >> what's your message to the nra. >> but like a normal candidate

clinton will take questions from a new hampshire voter on another line even if it's the same question that the reporter asked. >> what's your message for the nra >> i just did a town hall about that. look my message is not to them or for them. my message is to the american people it's time that we stood up together for common sense gun safety measures, to end the epidemic of gun violence. and that's going to be an issue that i emphasize in the campaign and i'll work as hard as i can to get something done in washington, but it has to come from the bottom up. >> that voter asked the same question as the reporter. coincidence? i don't think so. >> i tried to ask hillary clinton what her message was to the nra. she wouldn't answer me. what did i do. i went to the middle lady. >> i asked her the question. >> how did it work out >> it was great. she gave me a great answer and interacted with me and gave me

an answer i value. >> up won, i won and hillary clinton won. >> it was perfect. >> that's funny. mark halperin in new hampshire yesterday finding the trick to getting hillary clinton answer reporter questions on the rope line. joining us from omaha, nebraska, republican presidential candidate, governor bobby jindal of louisiana who is not going to be that tough. >> he'll answer the questions. bobby, we saw you jump in iowa, up to 6%. and beginning to be part of the conversation. how do you break through, and why is it that everybody, we were just talking to mark sanford about it why are insiders that hold jobs in government loathed by so many republicans right now? >> well, good morning, guys. thank you for having me. you're right. you can ask me your guess directly. i hope mark compensated that woman at least bought her a cup

or coffee. in iowa what i think is happening is simple. we're spending time on the ground talking directly to voters. we're doing town halls in every one of the 99 counties. sometimes i go as long as three hours. i have news for the establishment in d.c. and new york, they would love to clear field, ignore these early voting states but the voters one iowa and new hampshire, they have a very important role in this process, so i think we spent a lot of time here that's paying off. we're building a movement in iowa. what i sensed in iowa and across the country voters are frustrated with the entire political process. republican voters aren't just mad at president obama they are actually i think in some ways angrier at the republicans in d.c. they are angry at these republicans who keep telling them why they can't do anything. they can't, for example, get rid of obamacare, they can't stop amnesty, can't defund planned

parenthood, stop the bad iran deal. i call them the surrender caucus. at least pelosi and reid fight for their beliefs. believes. looking for somebody to fight for them to get things done. >> fighting for them but how would you lead your party to couple with options, alternatives as opposed to just sort of weighing in? >> look the good news is two things. one i've actually got a record of getting things done. every republican talks about cutting government spending p.m. i'm the only one running for president that's actually done it. so we're not just talking about it. in louisiana they told us we couldn't cut state spending, but we did those things opinion we cut our state budget 26%. but secondly as a candidate i'm also the only one, look others are talking about defunding planned parenthood.

we cancelled their contracts in louisiana. others are talking about replacing kbarm. i'm the only one with a plan for how you get rid of obamacare and how do you replace it. we're not just doing town halls we're offering specific ideas how we lead in our country and rescue the idea of the american dream so it doesn't become the european nightmare. >> governor, you mentioned republican voters in iowa frustration with republican leadership in washington. one of the elements you mentioned, several elements but one of them was obamacare. are you saying that as a candidate or as president you would continue to try to repeal obamacare? >> absolutely. you may have seen a little over a week ago donald trump came out and said the government should be paying for everybody's health care. this is a fundamental issue. as conservatives, if we don't choose to fight on this issue, we've given up. talk about the largest expansion of government spending and dependence in the generation. i got a specific plan that lowers costs, helps those that

truly need help and puts doctors and patients in control. what it doesn't do is have the government take over and subsidize every american's health care. i think the american people want freedom back in health care, i don't think we can give up on this fight. >> you do realize it's been attempted 47 times in the house to repeal it and failed 47 times. you do realize that. >> here's the problem, though. we have not had one vote in either the house or the senate on how it would replace obamacare. what i hear from the american people is they want to get rid of kbarm. what would we do. i have 16 points in my plan. it tells you how we would repeal and replace it. find to have a symbolic vote from repeal it but we need to tell american people how do we lower costs. that's what the president said he wanted to do. >> thanks so much bobby jindal. appreciate you being here.

>> steve schmidt, the divide is growing between inside washington, outside washington. how does that impact people like bobby jindal and other governors in this race? >> take someone who is one of the smartest elected officials in the country, bobby jindal. it's indisputable and people who know bobby jindal, have been around him would agree to that. three term congressman, two term governor. makes somebody who has actual governing experience pretend that they don't to appeal to the voters that a majority fashion right now are supporting candidates who have never held elective office, and what happens is it makes candidates who know better make promises that they can't cash the check on. whether it's repealing obamacare, any one of a number of issues that he's just gone through that right now in this congress, in fact, there's not a

route to do the things that he wants to do, there's no path to success at the end of the day because we have a democratic president and we don't have a veto proof majority in the congress. so, the promises and the disconnect in being able to deliver them is something that's driving anger. >> steve, thank you very much. up next, times square is known for a lot of things including costumed characters shaking down consumers. >> she said the man in the cookie monster costume demanded to be paid. when she said her husband needed to get cash cookie monster became belie gear rent. >> why don't you like cookie monster. >> because cookie monster made me have a boo-boo.

>> tough. what an indictment. >> now it's elmo's turn. in the spotlight like you've never seen him before. the author of "new york" magazine's new cover story joins with us the past, presents and future of new york's iconic times square. >> that's all right. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like playing the boss equals the boss wins. wow!

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(patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. the women in times square or the furry creatures in times square are engaged in a business. we believe that opens the door for us to enforce the way we would any other business. it's wrong. >> i don't think i'm doing nothing wrong. i can be myself. i can smile. i can talk to people. >> so, she might not be wearing clothes. >> disney characters shaking down customers.

by the way, it's across the street on ofth avenue. we walk across. mangy disney characters. >> adam sternberg writes this title store live nude girls typewriter in the de blasio era. it reads in part the most commonly voiced description of the new times square, the one midwifeed into existence in the '90s by rudy guiliani and michael eisner, the one that now welcomes more than 39 million tourist as years roughly equivalent to the population of poland, the one we associate more with micky mouse than ratsorizzo is disneyfied. this is almost never meant as

compliment. the fur error over the naked ladies with painted bosoms. >> this is pre-guiliani. times square was a mangy place where you would never wander with your children. the idea was disney was coming in -- >> to make it happy. >> to replace all the strip clubs. now the two have parted but what strip clubs are out on the street. >> well -- >> painted bosoms. >> are they disney characters? >> stay away from that. what's going on in times square? mika get out of the way. what's going on in times square >> there's a rise of these costumed characters. you have these disney characters who are, offer to pose for money. they ask you for tips. and to be fair the majority of them are quite polite and this is the kind of thing you run into in any touristy

destination. but there have been some problems with evil cookie monster and bad elmo. this has attracted attention. >> this does not work. >> these are totally unsanctioned characters. >> disney and "sesame street" -- >> why do they allow this? it used to be 11-year-olds would download an insync song and be thrown in jail. >> disney to send out cease and desist letters can't stop you from standing in the middle of times square and asking for money. panhandle is covered as free speech. as for topless women it's lelito be topless in new york city and not illegal to ask for money. this has been a great frustration in the way for the city they don't have any kind of legal mechanism to address what's going on and meanwhile it's been generating a lot of

negative publicity. >> going topless in times square is free speech? >> walk out at 5:00 and experience free speech. >> sometimes we have an encounter with the naked cowboy. >> is this like a big criminal problem or fun thing to talk about. >> it's more quality of life issue. as many people have pointsed out, if you went to times square 30 years ago the idea of topless woman would have been the least of your concerns. this is not the first time in the history of times square where you could see these things. because typewriter was roe born 20 years ago we're not used to these sort of problems cropping up any more. >> can't you zone this? let them go, like zone them, you can do this but do it in an alley or 40 blocks down? that's how cities like

philadelphia handled speech protesters during the democratic and republican or i guess during the republican convention. >> it's a complicated issue. typewriter is currently zoned as a street not as a park or any other kind of zoning. so these ped plazas that they're in the middle of installing have sort of invited this issue. because now you have this area where people can loiter and hang around. it's still zoneds a street. it's very difficult to prohibit certain behaviors on the street. >> the other afternoon i come off the one train and i'm walking across to go to 6th avenue. >> in your elmo costume. >> i wasn't wearing it that day. i see one person being accosted by the joker who is asking for $10 or whatever. i get the sense that most of the people i saw and passed by are not from new york.

am i accurate in that assessment? >> you are accurate. times square attracts up to 1.5 million of tourists a day. it's the number one most visited site in new york city. and to be honest, again, it's like 98% of these interactions, you come, elmo's there, you take a picture of your kid, you pay $1 and you go home. of course it's the ones where elmo gets a little aggressive or god forbid pushes a kid out of a stroller that raises concerns. times square is the welcome place of the city. that's part of the concern on behalf of the city is that if

people start to think of it as a seedy, dangerous place, that creates issues. >> that must have been fun research. they come into this iworld ugly and messy.

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seven years into the obama presidency, u.s. troops are back in iraq and we're hearing now about leaving a significant force behind in afghanistan. we'll look at the reality of winding down those wars. plus hillary clinton goes bold on gun control. and former congressman patrick kennedy joins us with his revealing new memoir with some emotional never before heard memoirs about his amazing family. back in a moment. ♪ ♪ hhe's psyched. ready for the knockout?

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can you explain something to me? you're one of the leaders of the republican party. what is happening? in the republican party! >> i would remind you that this time four years ago the leader in the polls in -- not for the republican nomination was herman cain. and that was followed by michele bachmann. there's a lot more -- >> how have you felt about the bachmann-cain administration? >> hell of a job. could have done better than this

one. ooh! >> making friends with john mccain. >> it is the republicans' burden. >> october 6th, welcome to "morning joe." we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, over there today, al hunt, and pulitzer prize winner columnist and political analyst eugene robinson. good to have you all on board this morning. >> so willie, you talked yesterday. you're part of the town hall yesterday with hillary. did you get a chance to talk to her? >> i did. >> did you talk about the yankees? >> no, i didn't get a chance to. we talked about the snl show. it's interesting, a lot of them there were for bernie sanders and they wanted to hear her side of it and wanted to see if she

could skrou could convince them one way or another to vote for over bernie sanders. i don't think she satisfactorily explained the benghazi e-mails. >> and a playoff. >> the yankees facing a pitcher who they haven't been able to beat twice this year so i have some concerns. >> and, mike, the cubbies, the cubbies! >> tomorrow night cubs pirates. two very great teams in pittsburgh, jake arrieta on the hill for the cubs and no one has touched him in the all-star. >> the team they will meet in the playoff championship, the national league series will be none other than the nationals.

how's the nats' pitching looking? i'm looking for papelbon to close it down hard. >> he'd choke if he did that, joe. >> what happened? >> we fired the whole -- obviously they thought the manager was partially responsible. they fired him. as awful as it's been, it's been dreadful. bryce harper had one of the best seasons ever. >> all right, we'll get to the sports later. we'll get to the news now. >> well, no. >> well, that's all you get then. "the washington post" is citing senior u.s. officials who say president obama is seriously weighing a proposal to keep as many as 5,000 u.s. troops in afghanistan beyond 2016. the paper reports that the plan was developed before the taliban

initially took control of kunduz in september and it comes after the strike on the medical facility. doctors without borders declares it was a war crime regardless of who asked for it. here's richard engel. >> reporter: even in war, this should never happen. the on trauma hospital repeatedly attacked by u.s. air power. at least 22 killed, including doctors and patients, six reportedly burned in their beds. but did the u.s. know it was targeting a hospital? doctors without borders, which runs the hospital, says it did and calls it a war crime. >> hospitals and patients during war should be safe places where care can be given and this has been violated.

>> reporter: survivors were transferred to other hospitals. they first said americans were in danger but then said afghan soldiers were in fire. >> they were taking fire from positions. >> reporter: afghan officials say taliban fights are were firing from the hospitals. >> this hospital is a fenced hospital like all our hospital guarded by guards. the only people inside the hospital are patients, caretakers and staff. >> reporter: doctors without borders said it had given the u.s. military the coordinates for the hospital and during the air strike even pleaded for the bombing to stop, calls it says went unheeded. >> willie, this president has learned from the past with iraq especially what happens when we move out. listen, most americans wanted us

to get out of iraq. i don't want to be in afghanistan. we got there in 2001. it's 2016. kids were 2 years old when we first got there when we first got there fighting in afghanistan but the void left behind is so horrific that it looks like the president is basically going to school on his own mistake of 2010, 2011. >> the idea was to go in and make it a place that was not hospitable to launch an attack on the united states. and look at where things are now. that's why policemresident obam

looking at leaving these lilly pad forces back. >> let them fight their own damn wars, we've done enough, we've contributed enough, we've shed enough blood, we've spent enough money and then you read what's in the "new york times," that we've spent billions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars trying to prop up foreign fighters. it doesn't work. we are the indispensable power and we're left with this horrific catch 22. are we in a constant state of war or do we let the world go to hell? >> joe, eight terrible dilemma but i think whether it's the iraqis or afghanistanis, if there's not a will to fight for th themselves, i don't know if this is the time or not. we're not going to have a permanent presence all around

the world. what happened after the korean war was unique to this time. i blame it on the iraqis. i think if we'd been there, stayed there, we would have prolonged problem. it would have been in 2018 rather than 2011. >> we can blame the iraqis, and it it is the iraqis' fault, they won't stand and fight for a country that doesn't exist anymore. but look at the refugee crisis, look at the instability across the middle east, look at the instability that could come to washington, to new york. it's not just a blame game. and i know you know that but presidents in the future just have horrific choices to make. >> they do. >> joe, we all can agree that those choices are incredibly difficult and it's pretty hard to argue they're being joined on either side. >> let's get to politics now.

hillary clinton outlined common sense approaches to universal background checks and closing gun loopholes but eluded to using executive power if need be and she called out republican rivals by name to last week's mass shooting in oregon. >> you know, on the republican side, mr. trump was asked about it and said something like, you know, things like that happen in the world and governor bush said, yeah, stuff happens. no, that's an admission of defeat and surrender to a problem that is killing 33,000 americans. it's time for us to say wait a minute, we're better than this. when the nra was on one of their tirades and calling the alcohol,

tobacco and firearms enforcers jack-booted thugs, president george h.w. bush resigned as an nra member and said, no, i'm not going to be associated with that. so, i mean, ideally what i would love to see is gun owners, responsible gun owners, hunters, form a different organization and take back the second amendment from these extremists. >> so gun control is always, mike, a loser it seems for democrats but what with hillary clinton outlined yesterday, you look at the numbers, if you're just looking at the poll numbers, universal background checks supported by eight out of ten americans, closing the gun show loophole, supported by i think 7 out of 10 americans,

maybe 6, maybe 7. it's the vast majority. you start talking about handguns and going beyond that and then the support drops. but what hillary was talking about yesterday, she's going to get a lot of people in the general election at least supporting her. >> those two elements that you just monientioned are incredibl popular. euro you're not going to take guns away from people. there's one other opening she alluded to there, it will require courage, commitment and a constant hammering on it to get it done, the woman -- the mother of the shooter, christopher harper mercer, there's a piece in the "times" today, among the 14 weapons that family had, an a.k. 47. you're talking about afghanistan and iraq,s that what those

weapons are designed for. they are military assault rifles. there's no good reason why legitimate hunters or gun owners would have a.k. 47s in their arsenal. they ought to be banned from civilian use. i just have a sense that among legitimate hunters, it's a winner. >> and she wrote about her own use of firearms. she owned many as well and knew very much about her son's purchasing of these guns. in fact, he helped her understand the gun laws. it's extremely disturbing and they both have medical issues. >> i don't understand. we actually have a -- the same thing happened in sandy hook. at what point. and i will say, i mean, there is a huge responsibility. we always talk about parental responsibility. there's a parental responsibility. can you go all the way back to

columbine when your children are act being the way that they're acting under your own roof. i don't really understand it. >> yup. >> it hard to do anything, joe. it hard for parents, especially parents of adult children to get them, you know, if they see the behavior and they see the problem rising, if no one has burn hurt yet, if you can't prove that the person is definitively a threat to themselves or to others, it's very difficult with our mental health system the way it is now to get the sort of mandatory help that some people need. >> and that's, willie, what i was talking about yesterday, the "new york times" article where i was going in, what law could have passed it and you go through all of them and at the end of the day, it's kind of like what gene's saying. on most of the shooting, if you want to arrest or detain or kick down doors of 100 million, maybe

you can tighten it, tighten it. there's not a quick, easy law that you can pass that will stop these mass shootings. >> sometimes it boils down to not to a law. it comes down to a personal relationship inside a household and that's the last line of defense a lot of times. not a law but someone in the house who can step in. >> joe, i disagree. i don't think -- you can't let -- the brady bill i think there's research shows it did diminish those guns. there's still going to be a lot but if you do it piecemeal, you do little things, which i think are very hard to do, i believe with mike barnicle, ak-47s are not used to bag bambi.

>> when you look at the story that you pointed out to, mike, you wonder, this is the mother of the shooter who posted on yahoo! on attend from the "new york times" on the site where she spent hours answering medical questions, talking to other parents of troubled kids and i'll read two little parts of it. she opened up the door about difficulties raising a son who used to bang his head against the wall and said both she and her son struggled with asperger's syndrome and autism. miss took a job at lame states that impose limits at keeping loaded firearms in the home and noted she had an ar-15 and ak-47 and semi-ought mat being rifles along with a glock handgun. she noted her son was well

versed in guns, citing him as her source for gun laws. >> we all have kids. what does a kid do automatically? put his or her seat belt on, automatically. it took 20 yooears to convince some states to have seat belt laws. we can do this. >> the question is, and, al, you said you disagreed with me and i'm just talking generally at the table, you're disagreeing with the general feeling of frustration i have and there's no easy quick fixes. something happens, there's a mass shooting. we all immediately react to it and we say we need to pass back ground checks and we need to pass that and it ends up that none of those specific pieces of legislation that we passed would

have applied to it. so after sandy hook i was saying we need to pass those things and one of those precious children being killed in san diego, we need to pass it any and after argona oregon, we have the same thing and everybody is waiting to see where these guns were purchased illegally. i have said many times we need to pass common sense gun laws but at the same time, a lot of times it seems like we're saying these things to make ourselves feel good. but like you said, the last line of defense is a lot of times people inside the home. i do think mental health -- it not a cop-out because every time in these situations, it seems

that there's somebody with a mental health situation where they are disconnected from society, they turn inward, they turn angry and i can tell you without getting specific to what i've seen, isolation, especially in men and i've spoken with a will the of people about this for young men especially, the frustration of being shut out of all relationships causes anger to rise. they become the victim, they turn inward and if they don't have the family support, there's not mental health counseling, then bad thanksgiving happeniin. >> that's one of the things that the shooter said online, he didn't have a girl friend, didn't have anything. if they got a background check

legally, if they're not diagnosed as having a mental illness, they're just an angry person with a grudge, that's where family has to intercede because the laws doesn't catch that person. >> account markets build on monday's triple digit gains? cnbc's michelle caruso-cabrera joins us. >> and former congressman p patrick kennedy joins us. but first bill karins joins us. >> we have 40,000 people without clean drinking water, including the students at south carolina. they brought in 100,000 bottles of water to get the students

through. they're hoping to get the water back online shortly. we're doing just fine on raidda. we'll have sun ny skies. all of these locations got a third of their yearly rainfall with this one storm alone. this was at the peak of it after 18 dams gave way or breached, a lot of people that got flooded out weren't even thinking they were even in a flood zone. this was highway 17 at one point. our imagine rivers, we have one picture of the black river going through kings tree south carolina. we're going to continue to watch those areas for the next two

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together, we're building a better california. hillary clinton and washington democrats are taking their turn in politicizing the benghazi committee. yesterday democrats on the house committee leaked secret transcrip transcripts. we believe it's time to begin releasing the transcripts of interviews conducted by the select committee in order to correct the public record after numerous inaccurate republican leaks.

democrats have ripped republicans before accusing them of selectively releasing evidence about sidney blu blumenthal. >> everybody thought hillary clinton was unbeatable, right? but we put together a benghazi special committee. what are her numbers today? >> republicans have spent millions attacking hillary because she fighting for everything they oppose, from affordable health care to equal pay. she'll never stop fighting for you. >> everybody max mistakes but that was breathtakingly stupid. the wheels have come off the bus

of trey gowdy's committee, which he has tried to make as professional as possible. and kevin mccarthy, their own speaker, is the one who loosened the bolt. >> finally we get the truth about benghazi. >> we don't get the truth about benghazi. finally you get a cheap shot. and hillary clinton was asked a question and she was i'm shocked, four people died. everybody was watching i think it was "hard ball" last night and they all used the sound bite, which was great on her part but she was asked about the e-mails and she just ignored whoever was asking the question. >> and you can tell that you can tell she had a stock answer and she was like shocked and stunned

and deeply saddened. but kevin mccarthy handed it to her. the most offensive thing to me is kevin mccarthy's answer is what has a republican congress done? if you're telling me the only thing that you have done since republicans and independents and democrats put you in power in, what, 2010? is that you drop hillary clinton's poll numbers a couple of points? you have done a pathetic job and should just go home. >> that comment he made is jet fuel to her argument that this is a totally political exercise. whenever she's asked about it, her eyes get big, she gets going. when savannah asked her about the e-mail and she was able to say they were looking for my e-mails because of my benghazi investigation -- >> right, forget the question. >> she thinks she's got the closing argument, which is that here it is on the platter, they were going after me to take me

down. >> what a long, long way we are from her last testimony before congress on this matter where she said "what difference does it make?" >> in context she didn't say what difference does it make that benghazi happened, she said what difference does it make that my friend the ambassador died and three others died, we should be focusing on the people who killed them. that was in context not on a reasonable thing but it was i think heartfelt because she and chris stevens were friends. that was her ambassador in libya. of course she's got the political advantage now but i think it's unfair to say that, you know, she just kind of gives this big sob story. that was heartfelt. that is true. and she now gets to say it and people will listen. >> i think it was heartfelt but it wasn't an answer to the question.

she was absolutely saying to herself i've got to find a way to go where the republicans are weak and where i need to actually send a very important, indignant message about how i've been treated by the republicans. >> the question was -- >> for people who weren't watch, tell people what the question was. if karl rove and george w. bush used a private e-mail exclusively -- karl rove and dick cheney, would you go as easy on them as you want people to go on you? she pressed a button. >> gene, do you understand? that's why heartfelt is -- >> come on. >> i think everyone here and around the table should be shocked that a politician would answer the question he or she wants toans rather than the

question he or she was asked, not that we've ever done that. kevin mccarthy should get flowers from the clinton campaign. >> i think it's bigger than that. on tomorrow's show, presidential candidate carly fiorina will join us. i look forward to that. >> and coming up, he admits to breaking the family code. patrick kennedy joins us next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪

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patrick kennedy is the author of the new memoir of common struggle, a personal journey through the past and future of mental illness and addiction and he joins us now. good to have you on the show. >> patrick, you went there. good to see you. i don't like to talk about being in congress. >> no, i didn't even know. >> so you went there, as they say, and some people, some family members you went there too much. why was it so necessary for you to be so revealing, be so personal with only -- not only your struggles but your family's

struggle. >> well, it's my story. oftentimes you're expected to keep your parents' secrets yet it will bedevil you our whole lives. what makes it worse is keeping that stuff secret or thinking you're keeping it secret. frankly, joe, you could go to any book store and find out what's in this book already. what i do is put into context what my father suffered from and my mother suffered from is diagnosable mental illness. they also had cancer and if i had written about their struggles with cancer, no one would complain.

>> today it is treated differently. today it would be seen as -- every family is touched by this illness. >> you know, in your previous segment when you're talking about these tragedies of guns, it is often marked there's people who were untreated or no one talks about their kid, this is pervasive, joe. even though times have changed and my dad and i wrote the parity law that gives people coverage if they need treatment for addiction and mental health treatment, and the insurance companies have reneged on that. we need treatment. this is an epidemic, joe.

insurance companies ignore it, politicians turn their back. they think oh that, issue, keep quiet. what i'm saying is my story about keeping quiet in my family is like every other family in america who has these illnesses. say nothing, do nothing, see nothing, and that is what is pervasive in this story. >> so how did the process work for you? did it help you to get these demon out and put it on paper? >> so i hope people read the book because in the book it's a close narrative of what we need to do policy-wise but i can't talk about how we have to get the secrets of insurance company medical utilization review out until i also talk about the fact that what is one of the biggest barriers as people getting treatment is nobody wants to be known as a patient getting mental health treatment or getting addiction treatment. >> which, by the way, leads to a

lot of these gun situations where parents did not want to take their children in for mental health treatment because of the stigma attached. >> it's still with us, joe. and everyone can recognize it because -- and when i say the common struggle, obviously i have a unique story but what is not unique is the fact that we couldn't talk about it. and if i can't talk about it, who can? i mean, really, mike. have theers stories been written over and over and over by you and others -- >> let me ask you about that. probably 90, 95% of the stories, the anecdotes that you write about in that book have been public knowledge for years and now they are in the book and they are uniquely your story. has your story impacted other members of your family?

is your relationship different now with other members of your family because it's in book form in your story? >> no doubt. everything's changed since this book in terms of my relationship with my brother, with other members of my family. my mother's kind of disavowed through her friend. this is difficult stuff. and, as i said, when i was working on this parody law, nobody wanted to be the author of parody because nobody wanted the words mental health and addiction next to their name. so any story where someone is accused of having an illness, by the way, it's an illness, mike, and we're returning away from it. here in this story, my family does not want to be identified with a medical illness. that should tell you something about the shame and stigma

around these issues. however, other members of my family said i love your message that this is about breaking the silence and the shame because all of us are saddled with that hangover of a shame that comes from growing up where you're not supposed to tell anything about what happened to you personally. that affects somebody, if they grow up in a family where everyone's supposed to keep quiet. i have kids now. i don't want my kids to feel ashamed because they have a genetic predisposition for mental illness and addiction. i want them to get treatment. furthermore, i don't want them to keep secret about the fact that they have an emotional life, they have a spiritual life and that we ought to be paying as much attention to their mental health as the rest of their physical health. >> has this fracture in your family, has it hurt you? >> i love my brother, i love my

family. that's never going to change. i get on my knees every morning. i pray to do god's will, not my own and all i can do is do the next right thing and pray that my brother will understand that what i'm trying to do here is bigger than both of us. and that's what my dad was all about, is trying to make a difference for more people by trying to more the ball forward as he did in his life. and that's what i think i'm doing. my dad worked with me on the mental health parody and equity act, he helped me pass this law and i believe that this is in keeping with his legacy of trying to life better for more americans who are suffering because they're voiceless and they're marginalized. >> i see that and i can understand that completely. what about -- you talked about

your brother and your relationship with him. what about your mother? it seems like, if i understand what i've said correctly, that you told the "boston globe" that she was okay with this book and she's now saying that she had no idea about it. what's the truth there? >> well, i can't try to litigate the point here. i've said that -- i interviewed her. my co-author interviewed her. we spoke about the book. this was embargoed till last week. i didn't think that she was going to go through the book and read it right away. so when she says that she didn't get a copy of the book and so she didn't know what was in it and therefore she's disavowing her relationship with it, i can't say anything. but the point is the fact that

she feels that this is shameful, which is the reason she's -- through her, you know, friend, is disavowing herself with any relationship with the book, that should tell you how deep shame is in this illness, that we still need to say, no, i don't want to have anything to do with that when, in fact, it legitimate medical issue that if it were cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular, she would not have had a problem with it. but frankly, mike, she comes from a time where these issues were really stigmatized, i understand that, really shamed. and so for her the default mode is distance myself from it. and i understand that and i don't fault her for it. >> speak to what it was like for you and your brothers and your sister watching visibly the deterioration of your mother as

you were growing up. >> well, it wasn't just watching her deterioration, it was watching her deterioration in front of everybody and no one doing anything about it. literally she would walk through the house -- i'm sure on occasion you happen to be in the house as was a lot of other people of prominence and everybody would look down when my mom walked by at 2 in the afternoon inebriated and everybody would say, god, i hope i don't have to look up, i hope no one has to say anything, i hope that she can just go back to her room and shut the door so we're not subjected to this embeae embarra embarrassment. that's how everybody felt. as children we were feeling we can't talk about this, we're supposed to just ignore it.

the more we ignore it, the more people suffer. and it's not only the person with the disease, it's everyone around that person that suffers. >> you have done the opposite of what we as a nation did back when your mother was struggling with this illness so many years ago. when did you come face to face with it? was it after the accident? how are you doing today? how long you have been sober? >> i've been sober four and a half year, february 22, 2011 is my sobriety day. i had some days before then but i started counting that date because it was the anniversary of my dad and my wife thought that i was going to go out on a spree. and the fact that i decided to go to 12-step meetings and not do that was a milestone, at

least in my mind so i started counting that day. i made it through congress, i was in and out of inpatient treatment. it shows you that you can be functional. but i don't think anyone really didn't know that i was suffering. and i think we know from having served there in congress that we represent the public in many ways, including the percentage of us that have these illnesses that trudge on in spite of them. and the problem is, joe, there's millions of americans who are very successful who are suffering today at work and their employers don't want to know. they don't want their employers to know and it's leading to back pain, irritable bowel, higher costs for diabetes, higher costs. we as a country are ignoring this to our peril. it's not just the prisons in jails that are the ultimate new

asylums, it's people are walking in this world where woe're silently suffering, our veterans are suffering. it's shocking as a nation we're not addressing this problem head on and preemptively. >> well, we're telling your story. you're going to reach a lot of people at great cost i would say personally to you. patrick kennedy, thank you very much for being on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> the book is "a common struggle." we'll be right back. that's cash back now, and cash back again later. it's cash back déjà vu. the citi double cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. with two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem one sided.

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joining us now, cnbc chief international correspondent michelle caruso cabrera. that's all we have time for, michelle. >> we kind of went over with -- >> we going to watch shares of dupont, the ceo is leaving a lot earlier than expected.

activists want the business to be run better. >> buying ge stock, what's that about? >> that stock hasn't moved for a long time. a lot of us might be legacy owners of general electric stock. they've done a lot, unloaded so many assets, used to be a much bigger company and still people are demanding more. >> a good market rally yesterday. i was surprised, didn't see that coming but, boom, up 300 points. >> yeah and it's raised a lot of questions about how does the market feel about a federal that is on hold longer than people expected. is this because we won't get a rate hike until march 2016 when we were thinking it was possible it could happen this month. >> the market is vulnerable but it's going up. the rallies replace the drops. >> do you still like the watch? gli do like the watch. during a recent ios grade, the face went kerplewey and it

wouldn't tell me anything but it did tell me the time. (patrick 1) what's it like to be the boss of you? (patrick 2) pretty great. (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro.

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welcome back. it's time to talk about what we learned today. mika, what did you learn? >> gosh, i'm still kind of taking in this interview with

patrick kennedy. >> riveted by -- >> brave but really risky and probably helpful to a lot of people. >> helpful to a lot of people, helpful to him but obviously the family understandably upset. >> understandably upset but most of the stuff they're upset about it public knowledge beforehand. powerful story, common story. >> that's the title. >> every family touched by this. >> that does it for us this morning. msnbc live picks up the coverage after a quick break. have a great day. what: your inse company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is, why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car.

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i'm jose diaz-balart. developing now, officials from south carolina warn the dangers from the state's historic rain and deadly flooding are not over yet. there's still a real threat of shifting water and unstable roads. >> it started coming in underneath my house and this has been coming up all day. so i don't even know when it's going down. >> at least 13 people have died in weather-related incidents across the carolina, about a thousand are in shelters and 40,000 are without drinking water. at the same time, 18 dams have been breached across south carolina. let's go live to the