coverage right now. right now on msnbc live. hillary clinton coming out against the tpp, the trans pacific partnership, the big trade deal being pushed by president obama. also, the draft biden movement pushing forward with an emotional 90 second campaign ad. ben carson continuing with controversial comments on that mass shooting in oregon and breaking news on the historic flooding in south carolina. the weather is better but the state's governor still has a warning. we begin with that breaking news. hillary clinton just in the past few hours has come out against the tpp, the trans pacific trade agreement. she told --

>> what i know about it as of today i'm not in favor of what i have learned about it. there is one other element i want to make. trade agreements don't happen in a vacuum. in order to have a competitive economy there are things we 23450ed to do here at home that help raise wages and republicans have blocked everything president obama tried to do on that front. so for the larger issues and we don't have the details, i don't believe -- this move by clinton comes days after she came out against the keystone pipeline. those have been two main sticking points between clinton and senator bernie sanders. sanders responded.

>> i'm glad that she reached that conclusion. this is a conclusion that i reach from day one. i believe that the trans pacific partnership is nothing more than a continuation of disastrous trade policies which we have experienced for the last 30 or so years which have led to the loss of millions of decent paying jobs. as corporations shut down in america and go to low wage countries abroad. big news from hillary clinton. just a few years ago when she was secretary of state when the administration began negotiating this deal she called the tpp the gold standard for trade deals. how is she explaining this shift? >> well, look, she says that she was working for president obama at the time and that was her job to essentially try to promote his policies and she would argue now there is an actual deal.

she reviewed it. we know she did it last night. she was briefed on it and makes the point that it doesn't meet her standards when it comes to increasing jobs. this under scores the fine line that secretary clinton is walking at times embracing president obama's policies when it comes to the economy and gun laws, for example, and other times distancing herself when it comes to thornier issues. this topic, those in the democratic base care about. they are going to like the fact that she announced she is opposed to tpp because they have real concerns that it could hurt jobs in this country. bernie sanders announced she is opposed to it. what is interesting is it put vice president biden in position of being the only democratic to actually support tpp so that will be interesting. you can imagine she is getting criticized for being a

flip-flopper. republicans and democratic rivals, as well. martin o'malley saying wow, that's a reversal. this could help her out in the primary but gets a lot trickier when she is going to have to explain why she flip-flopped on the issue. >> the timing on this so interesting with joe biden trying to make up his bind whether or not to run. want to bring in mark murray and john nickels, washington correspondent for the nation. mark, let's start with you for the politics and pick up on what kristin was saying. joe biden trying to decide whether to run for president. he is going to be for this thing and hillary clinton comes out and says she is against this thing. is she sort of boxing joe biden in a little bit? >> kristin was just right in her analysis and nailed it. it protects hillary clinton for her left flank particularly

against bernie sanders who is giving her a run for her money more than we thought two or three months ago and then the joe biden factor. he as the sitting vice president would be the only major democratic to end up supporting the tpp agreement. there is one other calculation important to note is that this helps her solidify her position with organized labor. we have seen some groups starting to endorse her. this helps her in that regard. it is important to note that this might be short term winner for her and smart politics might have longer term consequences. this kind of opens her up to being a flip-flopper and makes her look calculated and political, not as principaled as a bernie sanders but hurts the obama white house. hillary clinton backed president obama on the iran deal. pretty much had a united

democratic party except for a few defections. when it comes to the ptt trade agreement you have a democratic field against that at a time in which the obama white house will need every vote it can get and a lot from republicans for ratification. >> you mentioned organized labor talked to chuck about the issue, about the tpp, the politics of it and how hillary clinton would land on it before her announcement. let's play that exchange for a second here. >> i think if she doesn't take a position on tpp then you can say she is looking for a vote. if she does take a position on tpp then she is looking for our support. and the difference is if you get my vote i come out on election day and pull the lever. if you have my support i get up at 7:00 in the morning and stuff 200 envelopes, make seven calls, i go knock on a few doors and

get my neighbors excited about voting for her, as well. that is what is at stake for her. >> i'm curious how this will go over with labor. the bottom line she is saying she is against this. when you look closely at the wording here i am picking up on wiggle room. she says from what i know today, what i have learned about it at this time. there does seem to be wiggle words thrown in there. how will this go over with organized labor? >> first off, don't look at wiggle words as being relevant for another change of position here. it's unlikely that she would say i read more of the agreement and i will be in favor of the tpp. those are wiggle words for if she becomes president of the united states this notion of meeting my high standard. it allows her to come back with a trade deal two or three years from now and say this meets the standard. that's what that is about. when we are talking about the core politics right now at this point hillary clinton faced a

challenge. she was about to go into a debate where bernie sanders who has been an absolute stone cold critic of trade deals for a quarter century is sitting on one side of her and martin o'malley who developed a smart critique on the other side. she would have been in a very bad position. politically she needed to do this not mere plaly for labor. as regards to labor a significant thing is going on. she has collected some endorsements but it is clear that some unions have held back. i was in ohio last week and i was absolutely struck by the incredible passion and opposition to the tpp. i heard it from people in public sector and private sector unions. it was really deep and really strong. i don't think that she could have expected to get an

endorsement from the steel workers or the uaw if she had backed the tpp. i think she would have had a hard time if she even took a wait and see approach. this stand i suspect will help her a great deal. there will still be some skepticism based on her past but there is no doubt it will make it easier for her supporters within labor to make a case for her. >> what about the other political angle on this? the tpp will have to come before congress for a vote. having hillary clinton on the record being against that will that change the basic dynamics on capitol hill in terms of the obama administration being able to get this through congress? >> i think a lot has to do with how republicans receive it. one thinks it is frastronger for some than republicans might end

up liking. we saw the fight over the trade promotion authority or fast track authority where it was carried mostly by republicans and for the white house to be able to get tpp ratified they need republicans and they need the same senate democrats who ended up supporting tpa. we have a long ways to go. there will be a lot of arms to twist but the white house certainly has its work cut out for it. this is never easy. one other point john was just raising is that while this is a flip-flop for hillary clinton since her days as secretary of state there is a tried and true practice for democratic presidential contenders in a democratic primary to rail against free trade accords. we saw barack obama and hillary clinton do it against nafta in the 2008 race. barack obama went to the center on trade and is behind the whole

tpp accord as president of the united states. sometimes what you do in a democratic primary is different than when you are in the white house. >> you don't expect another shift in her position as a candidate. let's say she becomes president, do you think she might do what mark is describing there say maybe find some tweak or slight change to it and say i'm for it after all? >> these are long term fights. you will have new trade deals coming up and maybe another version of tpp if this loses. i think what mark says is true. however, i would warn that there is a growing skepticism on the part of an awfully lot of grass roots democrats particularly in labor about these pivots. people saw barack obama in february of 2008 giving terrific speeches on trade policy even into march and april and in june once he secured the nomination saying what mark just said that

you say some things in the primary and go towards the quote/unquote middle. what i would argue in this situation is that that experience from 2008 is going to cause a lot of grass roots union voters no matter what their unions say to be very skeptical about this. i think they will want to hear a lot more from hillary clinton. i think they will continue to show up for bernie sanders rallies. >> mark murray, appreciate you both joining us. thank you. still ahead an emotional new ad pushing vice president joe biden to jump into the 2016 race. is it going to work? less than 24 hours away from house republicans choosing a new leader. will kevin mccarthy rally enough support? we are following breaking news, historic flooding in south carolina, families picking up

the pieces after barely making it out alive. >> we were waiting to drown is what it felt like. and it was just like people out there to help. it felt like a miracle at the moment. that's why at&t is giving you 50% more data. that's 15 gigs of data for the price of 10. because the more data you have, the better. and right now at at&t get $300 credit for every line you switch when you trade in a smartphone and buy any smartphone on at&t next.

some neighbors are energy saving superstars. how do you become a superstar? with pg&e's free online home energy checkup. in just under 5 minutes you can see how you use energy and get quick and easy tips on how

to keep your monthly bill down and your energy savings up. don't let your neighbor enjoy all the savings. take the free home energy checkup. honey, we need a new refrigerator. visit pge.com/checkup and get started today. today donald trump held a rally in waterloo, iowa which is the birth place of an iowa legend. he is retired olympian and hawkeyes wrestling icon dan gable. he was there to make an important decision. >> i'm here to get an education to hope to be able to change hats and put the wrestling hat on and even though it represents trump i would like to put this trump hat on, as well. >> now, if you are not from iowa you may not be familiar with dan gable. if you are from iowa this could be the most important endorsement that a candidate

gets. gable won two national titles as a wrestler at iowa. his record was 184-1. he won an olympic gold medal and as the coach he led the team to 15 national titles. in the state of iowa they celebrate dan gable day on his birthday. michael jordan is the dan gable of basketball. i hope you like it spicy! get complete protection with the purple pill. the new leader in frequent heartburn. that's nexium level protection. long way from the sandlot. first game in the majors? you don't know "aarp". because this family is enjoying a cross-country baseball stadium trip they planned online at aarp travel. it's where your journey begins with inspiration, planning, booking, and hot travel tips from real pros. if you don't think seize the trip when you think aarp,

then you don't know "aarp". find more surprising possibilities and get to know us at aarp.org/possibilities. now to one of the most powerful campaign ads of the 2016 cycle for a candidate not a candidate yet. the draft biden superpack out

with an emotional ad using sounds vice president joe biden. >> my wife and three children were christmas shopping, tractor-trailer broad sided and killed my wife and killed my daughter. and they weren't sure that my sons would live. by focusing on my sons i found my redemption. it will be up to you in this changing world to translate those unprecedented capabilities into a greater measure of hapneha happiness and meaning not just for yourself but world around you. >> powerful appeal to voters and vice president to get into the race. a new poll shows biden as

matchup. joining me is democratic strategist with the group draft biden steve, let me start with you. whenever vice president biden talks about the personal tragedy he has experienced it is powerful to listen to and watch that ad. there has been criticism of that ad today including from david axelrod, the architect of president obama's campaigns saying that was going over the line and exploiting personal tragedy. what do you say to that? >> i respect david a lot but i do disagree with him. the guy that runs draft biden was beau biden's political director. we were very careful to use the vice president's words wanting to convey the get knocked down and get back up attitude. we are proud of the ad and welcome the response so far sdplmpt with if you are joe biden and watching that are you

closer to running? >> i think the bar on taste in political advertising is low now. i don't know if i agree that it is tasteless, but i don't think that it presented if the vice president decides to run i don't think that the ad was very effective in presenting a reason. what is the strategic rationale for candidacy? it does make one very sympathetic. the vice president has very emotional and powerful personal story. his whole life has been about service to his country. there has been great tragedy in his life and his family. he is someone we admire but i'm not sure the ad -- >> the ad may not and rationale may be implicit. there are new polls out today consistent with a lot of other polling recently. when you match hillary clinton against the most likely and you

match joe biden up, he is beating them where she is losing to them. is there an opening there for biden to tell democrats there is a chance you will lose the white house with hillary. >> i think what you are seeing is a match wup between someone running for president and being tested by the press and test td by voters and someone having a lot thrown at her and someone not running for president who is a sitting vice president who everyone has warm feelings about. i trust that you would see a very different set of poll numbers if the vice president decides to run and is tested in the arena of a political campaign like everybody running has to be. >> steve, the rationale for getting joe biden in this ad speaks to his personal character and something people find tremendously appealing about him, his resolve and how he has dealt with it. in terms of justifying why this

man should be president of the united states or the democratic nominee what are the specific reasons policy wise? >> from a policy perspective i will let joe biden speak for himself if he gets in the race. he has 40 years in public service, one of the few people in washington respected by republicans and democrats. he has been engaged in almost every public policy decision over the past 20 years. you look at his record of service and is as qualified as anybody in the race. our argument is that joe biden represents a guy we can get excited about. >> it's interesting. that is in essence the rationale by the draft biden people that he is as qualified as anybody else. it is extremely hard to run for president.

i worked for presidents. it is the hardest thing you can do in american politics. if you run a perfect campaign and you start it is still very hard. if you try to start this late i think it is too late. if you -- too many people are committed. hillary and joe biden share a lot of the same constituencies and know a lot of the same people. it's just too hard. >> the breaking news this afternoon. hillary clinton coming out against the trans pacific partnership, this is something that unions are very upset about. labor is upset about the deal. obama administration is pushing it. joe biden is behind it. how big a political problem is it for joe biden if he gets in this race where labor is such a big part of the democratic party and is for the trade deal and she is against it? >> first of all, secretary clinton has every right to

change her mind. if you look at the recent number of labor unions that said we are going to wait to see what the vice president does that is a sign he has had. i think again vice president can stand on his own record. the fact that so many are waiting for him to make a decision is a point to that. >> from the hillary clinton standpoint i'm curious what you make of the idea that she can be portrayed as a flip-flopper. i'm imagining if biden got in the race he could say you may not like where i stand but at least i have been straight with you from the beginning and haven't changed my position like she has. >> i think most voters will not be shocked that people's positions are shaped by elections and that your positions are somewhat determined by who your opponents are, what primary you are

running in. i think what she said was is that emt groos as she understands them do not have fi sufficient protections. it's possible that a new agreement could come back that she could support. today these agreements she does not support. >> thank you for joining us. and still ahead donald trump talks about part two of his campaign strategy. could we see the nontraditional candidate become a little more traditional? and we are following breaking news out of south carolina. thousands of people picking up the pieces after a historic and deadly flooding. >> people are there and that's what matters. all this stuff is just stuff.

let me talk to you about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed. well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. (patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental.

i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. life'asking questions........ having new experiences. are you ready? the key to a happy satisfying life is to always be curious. jibo, how are you doing? i'm great! every moment is our moment. are you enjoying this? it's been such a whirlwind. i want to get to know people and understand their ideas about everything. so you can too.

means striking a the right balancesco between economic growth, housing we can afford, and our quality of life. aaron peskin has been a champion for the middle class, fighting bad growth and income inequality. and mayor ed lee has transformed san francisco into the nation's most thriving city. vote peskin/lee. san francisco needs them both. aaron peskin for supervisor and ed lee for mayor -- the perfect balance for a better san francisco. the flooding in south carolina where the state's governor warns sunny skies may be deceiving.

that storm has now killed 17 people. rescue crews say two of them moved a road barrier and drove into flood water. governor nikki haley warning there could be more evacuations today and she says right now more than 400 roads and bridges in the state are shut down. this as people are cleaning up and drying out. she wants to make sure people don't have a false sense of security. >> while the sun is out, this event is not over. this is a situation where if that road is closed it's closed because we're trying to protect you. it's closed because we are trying to do this for safety. >> and msnbc is live in columbia, south carolina where people are cleaning up and waiting to make sure the danger is over. that may be a tough message to get across to people even though it looks perfectly nice outside. >> reporter: it was a beautiful day. the sun was shining. crews were able to get into these homes and get everything moved out.

amidst all of that we were under a flash flood warning for a good portion of the day. people keeping one eye on the cleanup effort and one eye on the phones for emergency alerts coming across. they were able to make head way. kind of hard to believe but they have gotten most of the furniture moved out and now they can focus on what is left of the rooms if anything inside is salvageable. you get an idea of the disaster cht you can clearly see the water line along this wall. i'm 5'8". this water would have been up to my chin. keep in mind furniture would have been bobbing along. it must have been terrifying moments for homeowners some of whom shared their memories today. >> we pulled attic stairs down ready to put food and drink up there and we heard a motor boat. we got the storm window off and leaned outthe window and

hollered help. angels appeared and said you want to go. we said certainly. >> if they are watching what do you want them to know? >> thank you, thank you. i just can't begin to tell you the gratitude i feel. >> reporter: so not only difficult work physically today but emotionally as you hear there. we are looking at the backyard of this home where you see the vw bug just dragged by flood waters not only into the backyard but through a fence. there is another vehicle the homeowner knows is in the lake. we are days out from the floods but still a huge recovery effort to go not only for weeks and months but possibly years. >> that repair recovery effort you can hear going on behind her. thank you for that report. still ahead presidential candidate ben carson stands by several controversial comments he has made about last week's

mass shooting in oregon. donald trump details the second chapter of his 2016 campaign strategy and it may be a bit different from what we are used to seeing from the donald. tomcat kills mice fast. what will we do with all of these dead mice? presenting... "the death bullet".

tomcat engineered to kill. tomcat kills mice fast. what will we do with all of these dead mice? presenting... "the rocket to heaven". tomcat engineered to kill. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic, why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach,

delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. insurance coverage has expanded nationally and you may now be covered. contact your health plan for the latest information. but grandmcause we uses we don't charmin ultra soft.clean. charmin ultra soft gets you clean without the wasteful wadding. it has comfort cushions you can see that are softer and more absorbent, and you can use up to 4 times less. enjoy the go with charmin.

tomorrow marks the beginning of a new era for republicans in washington. they meet to pick their nominee to replace john boehner as speaker of the house before final vote later this month. three candidates are making their final pitch for the job so far it seems the gig is majority leader kevin mccarthy's to lose. his claim about the house benghazi committee bringing down poll numbers hangs over his head. >> benghazi is not political. it was created for one purpose and one purpose only to find the truth on behalf of the families of the four dead americans. i have been very clear about this.

don't use politics to try to change that around. >> did you misspeak? >> i could have been more clear in my description. i stated that. there is only one reason why that committed was created, period. >> with me now nbc's luke rusert and jake sherman. obviously a lot of concerns among republicans after he said that last week. the idea of we are going to elevate this guy to the top position and make him our public face. can we trust him out there? has he reassured them with comments like today? >> well, it seems that there has been a slowing, i would say, of people who had a lot of concern about kevin mccarthy in acceptance that he will be the nominee for the house gop going forward for speaker. all that being said he did not get the endorsement today at the house freedom caucus. that went to daniel webster of

florida. i think the real question will be between now and october 29 when the actual speaker's race is on the house floor that goes to everybody where the margin becomes 218 that he needs to hit to be on the first ballot. what concessions did he make to make sure he does not go to a second ballot for the first time since the 1920s. though concessions, what are they and how did they impact the debt limit negotiations and the budget negotiations due on december 11? those are the questions we have to have answered. so far we have not seen that. >> jake, from the conservative standpoint what is the wish list here? what is it that they want to hear kevin mccarthy say? >> they want more money from the national republican congressional committee which funds elections around the country.

they want a buy in to the decision-making process. they want seats on better committees. they have a whole laundry list of things. mccarthy isn't saying no. he's not saying no but they feel like the mccarthy team feels like they are asking for things that are unrealistic and don't exist. mccarthy will have to kowtow to the people. it will effect a host of things. mccarthy could have the same fate john boehner had. the real thing to look out for is if conservatives demand one of their own as the majority leader. that we could see over the next few weeks. >> when john boehner announced he was stepping down the cynical take on it was if kevin mccarthy replaces him he will end up in

the same place. we will have votes of those who force them into debt ceiling show downs. is that where this is destined to end up? >> i think there is a lot of speculation around whether or not mccarthy can last as long as boehner. you have to understand these conservatives, these 35, 40, however many you want to count and the 85 influenced in the conference are very emboldened. they feel they have the power. they feel they have the momentum. mccarthy has much better personal relationships with these guys than boehner did. when do they say we are going to exert our influence on this conference. the best thing to happen to mccarthy is if boehner were to get the debt limit out of the way and get the government funded through the presidential cycle. if boehner can pull that out it

aleveiates from a lot of difficult things. it is very big. >> and just thinking ahead to the next few weeks that voter full house. two opponents tomorrow jason chaffetz is there anyone else who could emerge and become and supplant kevin mccarthy? i hear the name paul ryan. anybody else? >> no one else. and i am sure the people in paul ryan's office are squirming. he probably is the only other guy who can get 218 votes. he has said up and down to anybody who will listen that he does not want to be the speaker of the house. just to add the biggest block of voters are the boehner and mccarthy loyalists, the folks who are establishment center middle of the road republicans

and they are a far greater number. luke is right that these 40 have a lot of power. there is a huge block who want to vote for mccarthy. can mccarthy convince enough guys to break off, to break from the freedom caucus on the house floor. >> thanks for joining us. >> thanks, steve. coming up, donald trump says he is getting ready for his next act and that means running a more traditional campaign. what we will see from the republican front runner. ben carson standing by his comments on the oregon shooting. . a moment when something so familiar... becomes something so...new. introducing new centrum vitamints. a multivitamin that contains a full spectrum of essential nutrients...

you enjoy like a mint. new centrum vitamints. the coolest way yet... to get your multivitamins. i started with pills. and now i take a long-acting insulin at night. i take mine in the morning. i was trying to eat right, stay active. but i wasn't reaching my a1c goal anymore. man: my doctor says diabetes changes over time. it gets harder to control blood sugar spikes after i eat and get to goal. my doctor added novolog® at mealtime for additional control. now i know. novolog® is a fast-acting, injectable insulin

and it works together with my long-acting insulin. proven effective. the mealtime insulin doctors prescribe most. available in flexpen®. vo: novolog® is used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes. take novolog® as directed. eat a meal within 5 to 10 minutes after injection. check your blood sugar levels. do not take novolog® if your blood sugar is too low or you're allergic to any of its ingredients. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medicines you take. ask your doctor about alcohol use, operating machinery, or driving. the most common side effect is low blood sugar. symptoms may include dizziness, sweating, confusion, and headache. severe low blood sugar can be life-threatening. other common side effects include low potassium in your blood and injection site reactions. get medical help right away if you experience trouble with breathing, serious allergic reactions like swelling of your face, tongue, or throat, sweating, extreme drowsiness, dizziness, or confusion. now i know about novolog®. taken by millions since 2001.

vo: ask your health care provider about adding novolog®. it can help provide the additional control you may need. the citi double cash® card comes in very handy with cash back twice. with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. with two ways to earn on purchases, it makes a lot of other cards seem one sided. at safelite, we know how busy life can be. these kids were headed to their first dance recital... ...when their windshield got cracked... ...but they couldn't miss the show. so dad went to the new safelite-dot-com. and in just a few clicks, he scheduled a replacement... ...before the girls even took the stage. safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way to schedule service anywhere in america! so you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! that's another safelite advantage. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace.

donald trump appears to be readying for the next stage of his presidential campaign. in an interview with the "washington post" trump laid out the elements of his second act of the 2016 bid signaling evolution towards somewhat more traditional campaign that includes hiring advertising firm to produce election spots and having his wife and daughter on the trail with him. today trump held a rally in iowa where he assured attendees he is in the race to stay. >> my wife said i'm not going anywhere. he knows. you know. you have the same mentality. we are not going anywhere. >> a new poll confirmed he is the man to beat in florida, ohio

and pennsylvania. polls have trump in the lead in the gop race. joining me now is dan, one of the authors. thanks for taking a few minutes. the trump skeptics that you talk to will tell you he is a media generated candidate who doesn't have the kind of organization that it takes to win a state like iowa. based on the conversation you had with him, based on what you learned this week, is he committed to actually building the kind of organization that can win a presidential campaign? >> he does sound as though that is his intention. in talking to his campaign manager he made the same point. look, the trump candidacy is very much a media candidacy. when we asked him if he would change his style he said not really. he doesn't think this next phase requires that but he clearly understands he is going into something he never experienced before. i think he always talks

positively but he was a little bit reflective about the pressures that this has brought. you mentioned iowa specifically. from everything we have heard and looked at and my colleagues did a piece earlier about trump in iowa, he is building a serious organization or attempting to do that. this is not simply an operation in which he is flying in. i have heard that from a democrat who knows iowa quite well who told me the same thing. you never know until you get closer to the primaries and caucuses what is really there but their intention is to do it in a way he has to do it. >> he was a little reflective in the interview. what did you pick up on? what do ayou think he has learned? >> i think he learned what almost every other person who has never run for the presidency learned. it is an enterprise unlike anything they have done.

whether somebody who has run successfully or somebody who is a first-time candidate quite successful in the outside world. it's a totally different enterprise. he basically said it is very unforgiving. and he realizes that any misstep gets magnified. his entire record is scrutinized. what he says on issues gets looked at with a microscope. he is much more aware of that than he was before. i don't think he will tone himself down. i don't think that is what he is about. at one point he said you still have to have personality and say exactly what you think. i think he has recognized this is perhaps a somewhat tougher thing. >> what about winning over the so-called republican party establishment. he has the poll numbers. i haven't seen significant endorsements. is there a strategy in place or

mindfulness of winning over the republican establishment? >> my guess and we talked only a little bit about this. my guess from that conversation is that he doesn't think that those kinds of endorsements are necessarily all that valuable, that his success is going to depend more on his ability to rally individual voters throughout the country. >> an interesting test how much endorsements do or don't matter. we appreciate that. >> thanks, steve. >> ben carson meanwhile will not back down from comments on the mass shooting in oregon saying he would have rushed the shooter. what that can do to his support.

tonight msnbc will premiere a new film with a rare look inside the world of lion hunting in south africa. it is a lucrative business that is legal. at what cost to the animals in the community. american hunter and safari operator team up. and they find the results a little disturbing. >> the market that comes to south africa who pays the money and can get lion and whatever else he wants. >> blood lions is the name of the special programs. it premieres tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc.

we'll be right back. when you're not confident your company's data is secure, the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about.

that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. jake, put that downten up! point it at the ground til your ready that's not the ground leo put that down when your day goes on and on, you need 48 hour odor protection that goes on clear for no white marks. secret outlast clear gel. do you really think that's a good idea? if everyone jumped off a cliff, would you do it too? you'll lose interest. it's just a phase. it hurts me more than it hurts you. where are your manners - were you raised by wolves? you're going to give me a heart attack. when you have kids, you'll understand. this is the life of a rebel. sorry, mom.

and now to ben carson doubling down today on his controversial comments on gun control saying that if he encountered a mass shooter like the one in oregon he would have attacked him and encouraged others to do the same. >> from the indications that i got they did not rush the shooter. the shooter can only shoot one person at a time. he cannot shoot a whole group of people. and so the idea is overwhelm him so that not everybody gets killed. >> many have criticized carson for seem toog judge the victims of the oregon shooting. donald trump was surprised tweeting ben carson was speaking in general terms as to what he would do if confronted with a gunman and was not criticizing the victims. not fair. while it is too soon to see how voters react a new poll in three

key swing states shows carson doing quite well on the republican side in second place. joining me now are republican strategist and 2012 romney campaign manager and joan walsh, national affairs correspondent at the nation. katie, let me start with you. when you look at the polls we talk so much about donald trump, but the other big story has been the rise of ben carson. does it concern you that somebody doing so well in the republican party side is coming out with comments like this? >> i think it's sort of the ebb and flow of a campaign. we saw this in 2012. you saw sort of unseasoned untested candidates that rose in the polls. as they got a lot of media attention and scrutiny were the first to get these questions. they flood them a little bit. i think this is a case of that. ben carson hasn't been on a national stage and hasn't had this scrutiny for very long.

he made a comment that was ungracious at best, a big gaff at worst. he is getting hit on it. there are people that are coming to his defense. i think he has made the decision to sort of double down on it. i think the gracious thing would have been to say my words were ill suited for this particular occasion and i shouldn't have said them and i am sorry if i offended the victims and their families. that would have been a more gracious way for him to go. this is just an example of somebody not very well seasoned and prepared for the national stage. >> there have been a couple of episodes with ben carson where he said things that people have said went over the line yet we see in the polls he is doing well on the republican side. seems to be increasing support. what also strikes me he is doing well against joe biden and hillary clinton, better than other republicans. >> he is but we don't trust that one poll this early. those polls of single states way

in advance of a general election when we have not chosen candidates are kind of worthless. we look up to a shock. i actually expected him to come out and apologize and say whatever you say my words were mangled of course, i did not mean to impugn their character. the other thing is somebody did rush the shooter, a military veteran rushed the shooter and got shot five or six times and survived. i used to think of him as the anti-trump. now it seems he is trying to outtrump trump. >> so it seems out of character. he has said some crazy things. obamacare is the worse thing since slavery. he does have a history but usually says it in a softer voice. >> when he makes comments that

joan is recalling, what is ben carson tapped into so far on the republican side? we have seen his numbers go up through controversies like this. besides donald trump he is the biggest thing going right now. what is he tapping into in the republican party? >> i think he does sort of tap into the sort of anger and frustration and voters in the republican party that particularly you know despise president obama and his policies and hear somebody like ben carson and he says what they are thinking. so they, you know, they respond to that. you know, i would say, it's not a small thing that at this point in time he is leading joe biden and hillary clinton. it says something to the weakness of the democratic field that they are in that kind of condition at this point in time. but ben carson has a lot to prove if he is going to ultimately be a legitimate nominee for the republican

party. and we'll see if he can sort of get through this fire that you have to walk through if you are actually going to carry that mantle for the party. >> if you take away the over the top rhetoric and look at the reaction politically to what happened in oregon you find candidates on the democratic side coming down on the side of some kind of legislation to address gun issues. nobody on the republican side saying that. how do you think that plays out? >> i think the democrats have the edge. ben carson used to support the assault weapons ban and now he has changed his mind because of tyranny. the other thing i say to katie about the ohio and pennsylvania poll is i fthink we have a fine field. democrats are not as tuned in. i really think that once people are paying attention hillary clinton, joe biden will be doing a lot better than ben carson. >> the polls always catch

people's attentions. i did not expect to see ben carson up nine over hillary. >> a warning sign. >> appreciate you both joining us. thank you at home for joining us. i'm steve kornacki. and "hardball" starts right now. hillary versus trump. could we be looking at the battle of the century? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the time for great politics may be upon us. if the trends continue the idea of a 2016 general election that pits hillary clinton against republican donald trump may switch from plausible to probable. we may see a trump election as