. you know when you wake up and it's the dead of night outside? good morning, it's fall. it's thursday, october 8th. welcome to morning joe. with us this morning we got the managing editor of bloomberg politics. >> he's sort of the batman of american politics. >> former communications director nicole wallace. senior political editor and white house correspondent. >> and in washington senior national correspondent from bloomberg businessweek, josh green. we're not done yet. >> who am i? the ridler? >> okay. so we're going to start with the

kinder, gentler donald trump. >> really? i didn't hear this story. >> amazing. he's like the nicest guy. >> really? >> we love him and he's nice to us but sometimes he's not nice to other candidates. >> well, he might be now. >> i can't wait to hear this story. >> we'll have that coming up. yesterday we heard from democrats in iowa and new hampshire but mark has something for us this morning. he's back with republican focus groups and here's what they said when they were asked to reflect about donald trump. >> robert, what do you think of the source of donald trump's political appeal? >> the wwf maybe. >> he reminds me of mike tyson in his hay day when he was just vicious. >> a growing sense of nationalism he's tapping into. it excludes others. >> i'm a teacher. if anyone in my classroom would say go back to mexico to a

hispanic or latino student they would be in so much trouble but trump can get away with it in a press conference and everyone thin thinks he's tough. >> it's his style. >> what do you think when you think about donald trump? >> aggressive, nonsensical, other the top. >> not a strong christian. >> straight forward. intelligent. cramerica nooifing. >> intelligent, business man, open minded. >> open minded would fit. politically incorrect. >> i would have to agree with you. politically incorrect. >> mouth shooting volcano. >> confident, arrogant, winner. >> how about that last line. arrogant, winner. mark, what was your take from what you gathered? >> new hampshire republicans, a lot of them want trump.

people are a think trump can do it and carson because they're outsiders. they like what he can do. >> the last line i've always found in the american politics is the most important line. winner. they can say he's not a great christian, arrogant, bombastic, close minded. he says things they would never let their children get away with, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. winner. americans feel like they've been getting kicked around for the past 50 years and they want to start winning one. >> yeah, we talk a lot about people's disgust with washington. that's part of it. i think what you're talking about explains the durability

and if you take it to foreign policy, there's a feeling we've been coming up on the short end against putin and afghanistan, it doesn't feel like we're winning anything. people don't feel like they're getting ahead. i think that to me explains, the outsider piece has made sense to me from the beginning. the notion we're going to restore the greatness is to me what buys him the latitude to be the lack over on the stump. people believe when he says he'll transfer some of his ability to get deals that put us ahead and put a winning brand on the country. >> and leaks around washington are arrogant about donald trump and call him a buffoon. i think americans get it and i get it. someone's going to have to make a decision on who to vote for

and i haven't made that decision. all the posing and reality tv shows, donald trump has not only survived but excelled in the toughest market for real-estate. he has been fighting new york politicians and press for 30-40 years and he always comes out on top and you're kind of like that doesn't just happen by accident. he probably would be a pretty damn good negotiator and figure some things out that a guy that's been running for office since he was 18-years-old wouldn't. >> we'll see, i think the next debate performance will be really interesting and important at this point. let's get to the reaction to ben carson. >> talking about ben carson, what do you think his qualifications are to be

president? >> common sense. >> clearly one of the most intelligent people in the race right now. >> he has everything i'm looking for. i think he treats the american people and other candidates with respect. >> he's guided by i think very strong faith. >> true to himself. >> deep, thoughtful, genuine. >> immaterial to play one little clip. >> do you believe islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i do not. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that. >> how many people agree with what ben carson said right there? everybody? do you agree, disagree? >> agree. >> one nation under god. >> who else agrees with what dr. carson said? >> spot on. >> how many people in the room can imagine ben carson as president of the united states? >> how many of you can imagine ben carson becoming republican

nominee and president, raise your hand. okay. what would the ben carson administration be like? >> he would be going into negotiations or meetings with things thought out. >> i think it will restore dignity to the white house. i think he would bring back the stature of the united states on the world stage. >> i think it would bring a lot of peace to the country. >> he doesn't have the experience but i think that can be refreshing. >> i think he can create a much more peaceful world. >> his strength is that he's so thoughtful but again his weakness would be that he can't make those quick hard decisions fast enough. >> i think it would be very much like having mr. rogers in the white house. >> everything he's bringing is everything i'm looking for. i'm just afraid washington will swallow him up. >> yes. >> well, we've got a lot to

learn. >> we didn't cherry pick just the positive stuff. iowa and new hampshire, you saw there, the gap between what they say about ben carson and what people in new york and washington think is massive. the fact that they, the iowa group, everyone in the iowa group liked what he said to chuck on meet the press about a muslim president and we've talked a lot here about not understanding ben carson's appeal and i understand it after those two focus groups than i ever had. >> what's it appeal? >> people like heismis manor. >> people like my manor but don't want me operating on their brain. the people you speak to look like great, solid, wonderful

people, do they think, did you ask them if they thought he could run this country on the power of mellow personality, he's a mellow dude. he's a mellow dude and he's a christian. i went to sunday school every sunday for 18 years with people who were mellow dudes. they were not capable of running the united states. >> we'll have a longer version tonight. just like with trump, they believe heisman nor, his intelligence, his decency and his faith will allow him to govern the country. could he be president? almost all of them could see him being president and they don't want to know more about his policies and have no doubt he's ready to be president today. >> this is where i think whether it's willful or blindness we have a blind spot.

we don't have it about donald trump because we know him and his talents. >> and he's a new yorker. >> but we've had a complete blind spot about ben carson. yes, of course, we all have opinions. this is your opinion, but that is where he belongs. >> i still have a blind spot about ben carson. i have seen guys and women running for city counsel in pen pensacola, florida who were good people that because they got in there and didn't know how to govern, no experience, didn't know how to negotiate, didn't know how to do deals and didn't know how to work with other people and didn't know how to handle c handle services, they were a disaster. i have seen people on school boards that were good, christian people. that got elected because they

were good, christian people. they went on school boards and ended up with grand juries coming after them not because they were pad people but because they were so over their heads on the escambia county school board. people are looking at this guy and saying he's a good christian guy and ready to be president of the united states. i'm sorry, i'm going to stop right here. i can tell you we're going down a dangerous path as a party and a dangerous path as a country if we republicans or democrats start electing people because they're nice christian folk and these are the same things i said with barack obama being marketed like a can of soda pop. i said it in real time that it was going to be disastrous on the foreign policy stage and

republicans agreed with me then. now we got abunch of kids running president whose been in the senate two or three years, doctors that have absolutely no experience that intelligent voters are saying we'll vote for him. >> isn't it an indictment though that they don't think anything's happening in washington that requires. >> we've given that position to donald trump and keep forgetting. >> don't gloss over. >> look at this q pole. >> don't gloss over their agreement with him on whether a muslim should be president. that statement was denounced by people in the media and a lot of republican circles and there you have 11 out after 11 iowa republicans undecided look at that statement and say yeah, i agree and seven out after 11 in new hampshire agree they liked what he said.

>> i was curious if the guy upset about trump's mexican comment was upset about carson's muslim statement? >> yeah, 11 out of 11 of them. >> that's interesting. >> so mexicans, it's okay to discriminate against mexicans but not muslims. i'm going to create a chart here. we can discriminate against muslims and the constitution doesn't apply to muslims but we have to be polite to mexicans. hold on a second. i figured it out. >> sometimes these people are attached to his fantasy and it was almost a religious aspect of what they see in him. it's not just he's smart. here's a guy who came from detroit, pulled himself up, ended up at yale and he made it in a way that no one else could

comprehend and they think that's applicable in some respects. >> i want to say right here that, right here. i know there are a couple of idiots that are going to say manhattan, no, all of these people, i know them. they all voted for me. and quiet frankly if i ran again they would vote for me again. despite what i'm saying about ben carson, i'm not being a leadist. when i saban carsy ben carson ie to be president of the united states. i'm talking about someone who can get us out of the mess barack obama has put us in whether it's in syria, iran, middle east, i can go down the les list. i agree on all of those people on policy.

i'm not saying i wish -- was still alive. i'm not that guy. i think mccain is too moderate. i think romney was too moderate. i want a conservative who can win. i want to clarify that. >> yeah. >> this is not about me not getting my party. i don't want it to be a moderate party, a rockefeller. i want a rock rib conservative that can kick [ bleep ] and not only win elections but take this country back and a mellow dude who happens to know how to get conjoined twins apart. >> people are impressed. there's not a lot of surgeons. what happened when you got to the establishment pack? disstain ta-- distaked?

>> we can go to that if you want. >> are you surprised by carson? >> no, i think the hidden source of his appeal is he expresses a lot of opinions shared by trump supporters but he comes with a more polite affect, he's a nicer man. if you're a true believing christian, he doesn't have that same kind of personal front that trump has with people. it makes a whole lot of sense to me voters in the focus group and people in iowa would think that way and support a candidate like carson. to joe's support, they're not looking for a winner or guy who can beat the system, they're looking for somebody whose pure. >> all right. why don't we move to jeb bush then. is that okay? >> jeb bush. >> overrated, weak.

>> overrated, competent. >> overwhelming, underdog. fighter. underdog. >> i think he would be over shadowed. >> experienced but at the same time has a lot of baggage. >> not to really qualified. >> anyone in the room with a strong view about jeb bush? no one? hands in the air if you think jeb bush is a conservative. no one in the room thinks jeb bush is a conservative? >> i couldn't tell you enough about them. >> are you familiar with jeb bush's tax plan? >> i didn't know he had one. >> people want something new. people don't want a politician. >> he's a typical politician and way out of touch. >> i don't think he's asserted himself enough. >> i think people think he doesn't have it in his belly. >> can't believe people are going to get behind another bush again.

>> i think it's because of george senior and george jr. >> it's going to be you can't take away the good or the bad. >> i liked both bush's. >> you generally feel good abiliabout the bush's but two's enough. >> i like jeb bush. i think he maybe has a disadvantage due to his relatives being involved in politics. >> what's the source of his appeal? >> by the poles, i don't think there's a lot of appeal. >> the politics, even though people don't want it to be that way, it's a big part of washington. >> does anyone know what bush did? >> just from the commercials. >> what do you remember from those? >> balanced budgets. that again is huge. >> created jobs. >> a lot of you think he had a

good record as governor. >> i think this job is too good for him. >> if you want to sit down and have a beer with him, he seems approachable. >> i think he would have chocolate milk. >> this is all you need to know about the dissonance of these groups. ben carson, they think he's ready to be president of the united states but for jeb bush, they say and jeb bush just spit his coffee out across the room watching that. >> it's chocolate mitting. >> nicole, you work with him, know him, they just said of jeb bush they think this job is too big for him. there is no one in american politics more ready to be president of the united states than jeb bush. there's not a person in america other than hillary that knows what being president of the united states entails. there's not a leader that is

stro stronger and what he's done with his record than jeb bush. this is a jeb problem. they've screwed up willie. i don't know whose running it but they've set back and been zen when they should have been scared as held. i've never seen such disrespect. i wish i didn't use a stronger word. i cannot believe they get screwed up as badly as they have when the future of the republican party is literally at

stake if we lose, we're screwed. >> i agree. i hope he watches these. i think what they'll have to grab on to for deer life is the notion he's an underdog. that's true in every sense of the word and i think it shows damage done by trump painting him as low energy and i think it shows the power too of what the other candidates are saying. it renders it inexprickable he hasn't fought back. it makes it inexplicable he hasn't counter punched. >> we said this before. i can't blame donald trump for calling him low energy. if donald trump used the same tactic on george w., george w. would have cut him to sleds. >> i'm making the same point. those attacks that went unanswered, this is the outcome. i think whatever calculation was made that the branding game was

a long operation is incorrect. he's been branded and paid a price for not punching back. >> jeremy peters, chocolate milk, talk to me. >> i think before joe loses his faith, one of the things we should remember here about focus groups is that they're really imperfect in gauging how elec r electors feel. people start repeating each other and afraid to speak up when they deliver. there's also, when you talk about ben carson, just because he says things in an unflappable way doesn't mean what he's saying behind that demeanor is kind of cookie when he talks about going to prison makes you gay. let's not forget about the notsy comments here. people will remember that and.

>> i saw a door open. >> this is what i've got now that i'm 23 minutes in i've regained. what i have gathered here is this is a total colossal failure of republican leaders to step up and express themselves properly and to fight and explain to the voters, i've always said the voters are always right. rubio doing well, kasich is not. >> how about christie? >> mixed but not particularly

well in a certain place. we didn't cherry peck. the voices you heard on trump, carson and bush were uniform not just in iowa and new hampshire but both. we didn't lead them to all say that about bush. >> all right. so much more to get to. >> why are we doing commercials? let's keep going. >> still ahead on morning joe, hillary clinton comes to a decision on president obama's trade agreement she supported. we're going to show you to long road to the decision and an interview with bernie sanders. we're going to ask about the big price tag to his proposals and what he makes of hillary clinton's drawn out decisions on keystone and trade plus senators tim mccain -- join us this

morning. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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in what many are calling her biggest break. we haven't stopped talking by the way. >> no. >> way until you see the stuff tonight. >> this is going to be fascinating. let's get to the democratic side here. we have a lot on that as well. especially with bernie sanders. first in what many are calling her biggest break, hillary

clinton has come out against president obama's signature trade agreement. >> are you saying as of today this is not something you can support? >> what i know about it, i am not in favor of what i have learned about it. what i know and don't have, we don't have all the details. i don't believe it's going to meet the high bar to set. >> she's on the same side of the issue as bernie sanders. here's how sanders reacted to clinton's announcement last night. >> whether it's the keystone pipeline, whether this is t.p.p., these are issues that i have had a very strong opinion on from day one and i can say i am delighted that sec se tear clinton is on board. opposition, to be frank with you. it would have been more helpful

to have her on board a few months ago when the fight was 60 votes. >> that was the most elegant criticism i've seen. it's just classy. >> he's doing a remarkable job. clinton has senator sanders voted avoided taking an issue on the agreement. as recently as tuesday of this week she wouldn't give an answer. and as many of clinton's opponents pointing out this morning she supported the deal. >> the so-called tpp will lower barriers, raise standards and drive long term growth across the region. it will cover 40% of the world's

total trade and establish strong protections for workers and the environment. we welcome the interest of any nation willing to meet 21st century standards as embodies in the t.p.p. >> clinton's announcement yesterday that she opposes to transit trans pacific -- last week she propoesed doing away with the affordable care act -- >> i think that is the frustration inside the obama administration. i was talking to somebody, a senior with the administration

yesterday about this. this is everything they always found so frustrating, maddening about the clintons is this kind of inauthenticity, this careful political calculation. it's kind of well, i was forit before i was against it and it just drives them absolutely crazy. >> sam, it's flip flopping. you can see whether it's keystone, whether it's same sex marriage, whether it's t.p.p. you can see why bernie sanders is doing so well. it's because the clintons flip flop, switch positions and then you drag them to the finish line kicking and screaming every step of the way whether it's about

e-mails. >> i think everything is legit. there's been a long history of democrat politicians against the trade agreements. president obama promised to renegotiate and didn't do it. she's shifty a little bit at times. >> what's one issue? >> this is the point in her campaign. i think it's a fair thing to debate. which is doing what you want. >> this is why democrats think she's terrible and desperate for joe biden to run.

>> they will tell the truth. george w. bush in 2004 not because the iraq war was popular or afghanistan was going well. he said i'm doing my best and telling you to truth. >> there was one at the time of economic anxiety and labor unions strong opposition to trade deals who ran saying i support free trade. bill clinton, it can be done. >> the trade came out and has debate and doesn't want unprotected. it's in the as simple as this. if you look at her position in

the clinton add menstruation, she was the most skeptical in the administration. she was very skeptical of it. if you read her book hard choices on trade, she was skeptical probably because she was running for office but there was skepticism. i don't think it's pure flip flopper. >> it will not work in the long run. she may prevail but not because of the traditions. >> sam, feel the burn. >> coming up, apparently, it's not just progressive spilling the burn. senator bernie sanders tells e mika and me there's a growing number of republicans attending his rally.

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joining us now bernie sanders of vermont. great to have you on the show this morning. >> it's zieting. i see bernie and 20, 30, 40,000 people out there. i work with this guy. it's almost like going to high school with paul mccartny. he's turned into a rock star on us. i know you have to be as surprised as we are. not that you have a lot of supporters and followers but this thing is really taking off. >> well, i tell you, i thought from the beginning that we had a real message that would resinate with the american people and that is people are disgusted

with the fact that wealth and income going to the top 1%. we're not dealing with climate change and have a campaign finances system pretty corrupt allowing billionaires to buy elections. i knew those issues would resinate but not as quickly and strongly as they are. >> as you know, we worked together, obviously, i don't share ideologies with you but anybody who loves this country and politics, it's going to be exciting a guy is as obsessed with these issues is actually getting a voice through the people. >> it is. i mean, you know, you have to be up there on a platform and look out at 20 or 30,000 people and a lot of young people and a lot of working class people who want to make fundamental changes in this country and responding to that

message. joe, there's something else i always say and i want to repeat it now. this campaign isn't about bernie sanders, it's about transit forming america. the only way we can do that is revitalize american democracy and bring millions back into it and be prepared to stand up with very powerful people today who will have incredible power over our country and political life. >> i don't know. i think joe's feeling the bern, senator. that's my feeling. >> you would be surprised. there's more than a few republicans out there. >> i won't be surprised. we've heard people say why you can't win from the very beginning and it was interesting. i'm starting to hear people talk

and i saw a focus group for bloomberg and said this is starting to remind me of what i heard republicans, my fellow republicans tell me when i went to des moines in late 2007 when i said i think i'm going to vote for this obama guy. talk about, if you will, we've had these talks with elizabeth, about how there is a lot of cross over and whether it's republicans distrust of trade deals and whether it's republicans just as angry at wall streets and bail outs as progressives. >> i think that's exactly right. let's not dismiss the fact there's strong differences of opinion. many republicans are pro-life. i'm pro-choice. there's differences on guns. differences on gay marriage. but you know, republicans have to send their kids to college. work walk class can't do that.

working class republicans are equally disgusted. so i think the message that we are bringing forth that we have got to come together to say that wall strooeet and corporate america cannot continue to dominate the political and equal life. we need an economy that works for families. >> so your message is resinating with tens of thousands that come to hear you speak. some might say you were way too far left to win the general

election. >> on the other hand we are going to pay for what we are proposing. for the middle class and working families to the top 10%. yes, my policies will demand that the top 1% and largest corporations in this country start paying their fair share of taxes. what do we propose? real unemployment today. not official but real unemployment is 10%, you thought employment was 30, 40, 50%. i believe we should invest a trillion dollars into our roads, water systems, rail and airports and create up to 13 million jobs. i believe we should raise the minimum wage over a period of several years to do what los angeles and seattle are doing to 15 bucks an hour and pay equity for women workers.

i believe we have to device our disastrous trade policies so corporate america invest in this country. three out of four banks were bigger than we were when we bailed them out because they were too big to fail. i think we should re-establish and break up these large financial institutions which today have too much economic and political power. i think that in terms of campaign finances reform, a huge issue. we've got to overturn citizens united and move the public fund of elections. this is where, joe, i'm afraid the republicans are way, way out of reality and that is climate change. the scientific community is virtually unanimous. it's real and caused by human activity and already causing problems. we've got the work with china, india and russia. we have to go to energy and

sustainable energy. >> there's balance and by the way, i certainly agree with you that climate change the real and caused by human activity as well as other forces. but you will have some democrats, certainly some union members that believe the democratic party may go a bit too far in some of their policies in climate change. it actually hurt working class americans. how do you balance those two things? obviously, it's very easy for a billaire in soon francisco to complain of climate change and get on his corporate jet. if you're a minor in west virginia it's a bit different. >> you're right. i believe the most comp rehence eviden -- comprehensive climate change, we put the money.

it's not the fault of the coal minor the product he's producing is causing climate change. he should not be blamed for that. that's a substantial amount of money to make these people hold. we recollected do our best to precisely invest in those communities that are hurt by the transition. you're right. there are people that will be hurt. they've got to be protected. >> all right. later this morning we're going to bring you to rest of our conversation with senator sanders including how he would defeat isis. >> by the way, he's really good. >> it was interesting. we went on for a long time because it was fascinating. >> nicole, would your republican father mind if you repeated what you told us? >> he doesn't wake up this early. he's on the west coast. my dad said if it's not trump

we're not voting for anybody. i said that's so childish. he said my second favorite person is bernie sanders. so i actually agree with what he said in his interview with you guys. republicans, if they have not been won over, they're listening closely and attracted to things. >> it can be summarized by nicole's father once again. >> his head's exploding. >> this is a cycle where someone says i'm for trump and if i can't have trump i'm for sanders. >> i'll repeat what i've said a few times, one of the most shocking things that happened to me when i ran, no republican had been elected since 1873, i had so many democrats coming up to me saying i disagree with you on everything but i know you mean what you say and i know you're going to go up there and you're going to talk straight. >> the poles were like 50/50 the

day before the election. i won 62-38% because the democrats were like screw it. he's crazy but talking straight. >> i believe what he says. >> we'll be right back. more data means more freedom to do..whatever.

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coming up at the top of the hour. >> the most fascinating conversation about kevin mccarthy. predictions if he does win he may not last but a couple of

months. advice for jeb bush. >> the most stunning thing we agree on is he may have turned hillary clinton's campaign around and possibly lost the election for the republicans in 110 second sound bite. >> on fox. >> he asked if this is perhaps was the biggest gap in resent american history. so many powerful democrats are starting to say to me, we got to look in another direction. i think kevin could have saved hillary clinton. they think it too. >> no, their defense is his point was at the committee revealed excellent work and revealed the truth about hillary clinton. >> more on those groups when we come back. >> we'll be right back.

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mccarthy has plenty of support and has the house part down and working on the speaker. >> they have a minority. strong, english-like words.

>> welcome back to morning joe. >> so mean. he's a nice guy from california. >> still with us we have bloomberg politics mark, former communications director, josh green, the huffington post. >> steve is obviously a supporter of hillary clinton. he's not been here because he's been advising kevin mccarthy and what to say when he goes on fox news. i want to quickly before we go, the remarkable focus groups we'll have, you suggested off air that kevin mccarthy's blender may have been one of the worst in resent american political history. >> i'm trying to think of another case.

mika made a valid point. democrats seem to be drifting. now thai questioning the whole purpose of the committee. they've recovered amazing stuff. i think we can conceivably say it's been political. it's changed everything. >> it has. he has for the foreseeable future saved hillary's campaign. >> for sure.

there's still the fbi cases and where a federal judge could put her in a vulnerable position. in the political round, huge turn around for her. you can feel it and see it in her step. >> see an error. this is hitting the ball right into the net when you have a chance to win the set. >> well, also, it's been said a thousand times it's telling the truth. >> no, it's not. >> the benghazi thing? >> no, it's not. >> why? >> because the fbi isn't investigating because of rush limbaugh. they're investigating this because of disturbing things. >> the ig of the -- >> all i can say is that the benghazi committee was set up to deal with something like this. to get into e-mails or otherwise embarrass her or make her vulnerable. >> we forget.

before the new york times started investigating this, actually he was being attacked as a rhino and john boehner's puppet for setting up a committee not going after the truth at all. the right wingers thought it was a joke because it wasn't going to be tough enough on hillary. >> they're obviously wrong in that sense. it was the benghazi committee. >> this is not, the reason it's such a debok l is because it's not true. it is not true this is politically motivated. >> not politically motivated. >> what it's revealed, why would the fbi be investigating something if it was politically motivated.

the benghazi was set up -- from all of these investigations about benghazi, no one has come up with anything the administration, yes, it was a mistake and shouldn't have happened but nobody's found anything. what they're into are her e-mails. do you think why they haven't found anything and why it's up to the fbi? because it started a chain of events where they couldn't get to the bottom of it because hillary set up her own server and didn't turn over the benghazi related e-mails and there was a big gap at the time of the gaps where one thing led to another and another and another. >> now they've released thousands of pages of e-mails. >> and there's a gap in the benghazi attacks. >> have you learned anything about benghazi. >> but this would be like a lawyer trying a case for you and

the other lawyer going oh, you've got nothing on us, come on. this is just a witch hunt while the other side is not producing all the documents that were subpoenaed. if you were on the other side in a commercial dispute against somebody else, you would not allow the lawyer to stand up in court before the judge and say you haven't produced anything. until hillary clinton actually and her lawyers actually comply with the subpoenas and turn over all the documents so we can have a real investigation. >> okay. that has now happened, right. >> no. they still don't have all the e-mails yes. >> the first two months of e-mails may or may not be recoverable.

they may or may not exist. >> it's too early to decide. >> all i said was at this moment as we sit here on whatever today is. now you've got me confused and rattled. >> you're not confused. you know it's the truth. >> because you haven't produced the documents. this would be like the judge saying i haven't had all the subpoenaed documents yet. >> as we sit here today, the documents such as they exist, everything she has control over has been turned over. >> she has control over the one she deleted too. that's not the point. she deleted her yahoo account. go daddy, whatever. she's deleted it all. >> you read that on the

internet. >> since joe has set this up in the courtroom, if you're subpoenaed, you have the right to turn over what's required. anything that's personal that's your yoga lesson or daughter's wedding you can destroy. >> we all know general was e-mailing hillary clinton about yoga classes. oh wait, no he wasn't. this was information that's dripped and dripped and dripped out. let's wait. >> that's completely true. >> of course, it is. it's true and you know it. let's just wait until the clintons decide and their lawyers decide they're actually going to comply by the subpoenas and turn all the documents over and we can pass judgment. if you don't disagree with that, all i said is as we sit here today we have learned nothing. >> the clintons have not complied with the subpoenas.

turn all the documents over and we can pass judgment. people don't believe her because she doesn't turn over things. >> yesterday -- it's good to have you back. i actually e-mailed steve last night and said i misyou. >> i'm surprised. >> you're carrying a tough burden right now with hillary clinton. >> donald trump will have you carrying a tough burden. >> fortunately, i haven't contributed to donald trump. my burden has been jeb bush who i have known for a long time and said he was an incredible leader. >> and ben carson we have fully owned up to this morning. >> no, i haven't. i'm going to get it. it's a 12 step process.

>> we'll start with the focus group on donald trump. they were asked to reflect on donald. take a look. >> what do you think the source of donald trump's political appeal is? >> the wwf maybe. >> reminds me of mike tyson and his hay day when he was vicious. >> it's a growing sense of nationalism he's tapping into. it excludes others. >> i'm a teacher. if anyone in my classroom would say go back to mexico to a hispanic or latino student, they would be in so much trouble but trump can get away with it in a press conference and everybody thinks he's tough. >> he is bombastic but that's his style and serves him well to date. >> what do you think when you think about donald trump? >> aggressive, nonsensical, over the top. >> not a strong christian. >> straight forward. i think he's intelligent and cramerica nooifing.

>> intelligent, business man and open minded. >> open minded fits. politically incorrect. >> i would have agree with you. >> mouth shooting volcano. >> confident. arrogant. winner. >> i love that answer by the way. >> if trump decides he wants to change his slogan he could go with confident arrogant winner. >> another reaction to ben carson. >> what do you think his qualifications are to be president? >> common sense. >> one of the most intelligent people in the race right now. >> he has everything i'm looking for. i think he treats the american people and the other candidates with respect. >> he's guided, i think, by very strong faith. >> true to himself. >> deep, thoughtful. >> seems genuine. >> i want to play one little

clip right now. this one got a lot of attention. >> do you believe islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i don't. i do not. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that. >> how many people agree with what ben carson said there? everybody. do you agree with what he said? disagree? you agree. >> one nation under god. >> who else agrees with dr. carson? >> spot on. >> how many people in the room can imagine ben carson as president of the united states? how many can imagine ben carson not only becoming republican nominee but becoming president, raise your hand. okay. >> what would the ben carson administration be like? >> he would be going into negotiations or meetings with things well thought out and whatever cabinet he puts together would be some of the top minds together as well. >> i think it would restore dignity of the white house and

bring back stature of the united states on the world states. >> i think it would bring a lot of peace to the country. >> i think that can be refreshing. >> i really think he can create a much more peaceful world. >> his strength is that he's so thoughtful but again, then his weakness would be that he can't make those quick hard decisions fast enough. >> i think it would be very much like having mr. rogers in the white house. >> the message he's bringing is everything i'm looking for. i'm afraid washington would follow him up. >> trump and carson, what was your take away? >> clearly, there's skepticism about trump. they accept him and open to him and think he's a strong leader and think he stands up best to putin. there's a connection to carson that is less ambivalent in both iowa and again surprisingly in new hampshire. it's a secular place where carson hasn't spent as much time in iowa.

there's an appreciation yags fo as an outsider and descent man and the support for a republican being president should send shock waves to the people in new york. they only not only thought it was disqualifying, all 11 agreed with what carson said, seven out of 11 in new hampshire. live free or die straight they agree with carson. >> i said it a couple of weeks ago. i said ben carson's pole numbers are going to go up. explain how a guy can say he would be very upset in a student who somebody go back to mexico and yet. >> discriminated. >> yeah, basically wants to institute a religious test against what the constitution says for who gets elected president. >> it shows to me being a truth teller with manners is more poplar in our party than being a

true teller who can be offensive and rude. right. >> trump hasn't seen our focus groups before yesterday. we saw we talked about he was very polite to john kasich and jeb bush. trump realizes being a truth teller and polite as carson is what's fuelling the carson rise and the great appreciation for him in both focus groups. >> carson has been on many programs on fox news every night for six months. the country has gotten to know him. not the whole country but the fox news country. he, you know, when news breaks he does go out in a moment and offer what people view as thoughtful. >> didn't you say he's on megyn kelly every night. >> almost every night at 9:00. i understand what they're responding to because i have seen him knit together a very cohesive message over the last six months. i'm more shocked they're held on

the experience front. >> that's what's so stunning. you have people here saying that ben carson is ready to be president of the united states but we played clips of him saying jeb bush wasn't up to the job. >> and said he wasn't qualified. you don't think it would fit into main stream thinking. maybe we've been wrong. maybe, you know, we have been saying that people like trump for this reason. maybe they like carson, a very different person for the same reason. >> yeah. and they liked fiorina not as much as carson and trump and the only establishment candidate quote unquote who did well in the groups was rubio who the bush people and kasich people are inexperienced. >> one more piece her in what many are calling a break. hillary clinton come out against president obama's signature

trade agreement. >> are you saying as of today this is not something you can support? >> what i know about it as of today i am not in favor of what i have learned about it. what i know and again, i don't have the tax. we don't yet have all the details. i don't believe it's going to meet the high bar i have set. >> here's how clinton reacted to sanders last night. >> whether it's the keystone pipeline, tpp, these are issues i've had a strong opinion on from day one. a am delighted hillary clinton is on board.

it would have been more helpful to have her on board a few months ago. >> clinton has as senator sanders noted avoided taking an issue on the agreement for months on the trail. as recently as tuesday of this week she was still undecided. >> talking to people about it and giving me all the information they can gather. >> going to congress now and picking up a position soon. >> oh yeah, i will definitely. >> what is she telling you? secretary of state supported it. >> yeah, take a look at this. >> it will cover 40 prs of the world's total trade and establish strong protections for workers and the environment. we welcome the interest of any nation willing to meet 21st

century standards as embodies in the ttp. >> i can tell people if you want to know what hillary thinks, watch that clip. that's what she believes. that's what she knows. and this twist and turning and getting from that position where she was as secretary of state on a deal she strongly supported to yesterday is why bernie sanders is doing so well. >> i'll ask the same question i asked them. how does this happen with a couple more issues they've changed on.

>> he hshe had issues in the administration. i'm sure you can find tape of her saying we shouldn't arm the syrian rebels. she now says we should you have to remember today worker's wages still have not gone up in many years and the tension among the 99% is very palpable and trade agreements have become a flash point of this. people blame trade for their problems and this has become something that's become a devicive issue in the democrat body. >> we're going to let that fly.

let's go to josh. can you talk about your cover? it's the vast right wing con spiriter. fascinating. tell us about it. that is steve. >> when hillary talked about the vast right wing conspiracy, this is the guy sitting in the control room they were the guys that drove boehner out and going to make life held for mccarthy. it was the perfect personification. i think the big news in the piece is about to make life held for jeb too.

he's coming out with a book. it's called bush bucks. how public service incorporations help make jeb rich. that comes out monday. that's going to be the next blow that lands. >> so we've heard, is he close to donald trump? >> yeah. >> there's been actizations that trump has is paying for good presidency. >> arranging the border visit that was the first real circus in the donald trump presidential campaign and been pretty much

going with that ever sense. that was one of the forces that helped really make that fight take off. >> all right, josh, thank you very much. still ahead on morning joe, more of our one on one interview plus democratic senator of west virginia joins us. first senator tim mccain joins us as russia upsets syria after attacking from land, air and sea. >> what a mess.

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welcome to the moment no one's been waiting for. the fastest internet and the best tv experience is already here with x1. only from xfinity. 28 past the hour to the fast moving developments from syria and a new assault from moscow. syria launching a new ground effort targeting rebel groups. after days after air strikes russia adding attacks from the

sea. the russian defense released this video yesterday of what it claims to be its first naval attack against isis targets in syria. this comes with news a u.s. war plane was forced to yield over syria. the pentagon confirms the close encounter and adds that the u.s. is not prepared to coordinate with russirussia. wow. joining us member of the senate armed services democratic senator tim cane of virginia. tim, good to have you on the show. >> good to be with you guys. >> this feels like any moment it could explode into a bad incident if not something more. what are the options at this point? >> you're right. this is a catastrophe. i've heard folks say they couldn't have predicted it. that's wrong. russia has had a military base

in syria for decades. it's the only base outside of russia. it's been very clear as the country gets more and more unstable, they're more and more unnervous. i was in the area in july. there were definite reports of regime weakening and the russia activity is sadly not surprising. it is a catastrophe. what it points out is the u.s. doesn't have the strategy. we haven't had the debate about the war against iraq. they re quested -- congress treated it as a matter of indifference. i predict we're going to have one more catastrophe like this and one more set of against each other until we get together and decide a strategy. >> also, ruling out cooperation with russia to an extent makes sense except this is happening. how can benot in some way shape

or form work with russia? >> as you saw from the near miss yesterday, once you have both russian and american aircraft in this air space, the chances for just an accident are very, very high. at a minimum, there's got to be better communication. maybe the u.s. has to say we're not going to cooperate but at least the communications so we know what we're doing and they know what they're doing because we wouldn't want this to spiral into something more significant that would pull the u.s. and russia into military conflict. we have two hearings on russia this morning, one in the armed services committee. one is more about syria, one more about ukraine. so congress is kind of starting to wake up to this. bottom line we're involved in a war congress hasn't debated. because we haven't debated and the administration hasn't come

up with a sound strategy, we're in a vulnerable situation. they have a lot of authority and scope to do anything necessary. question one, implied if you didn't even actually state that you thought the administration had made mistakes, miss the vote, would love to hear about that. second you said at a minimum we should cooperate with the russians. at that minimum, what should we do for the best we can which is not a great position for us? >> we should be communicating with them. i think the operation question is one we got to hash out. look, on the administration side the president started this war with the bombing campaign august 8, 2014, to defend an american embassy and reveal and protect against a humanitarian atrotsty in the area of northern iraq. there was a self-defense rational. within two weeks, the protect the american side of this was done and at that point the president's legal authority in my view expired and you can't go

on an offensive war without congress. he didn't bring a re quest until february and waited six months to do that. that was a huge mistake and the authorizization request was not really one that had a significant sort of strategic element to it. then congress really gets the blame because it's congress' authority to declare war and they haven't been willing to take this up for 15 months. there's a lot of blame to go around. what should we be doing now? i think for about a year i was a little slow to come to this. others were calling to it before me. for about a year i said the u.s.'s principal should be to enforce to russian didn't veto them calling for cross boarder delivery this crisis, we should be working in the north of syria together with turkey and other

nations to provide a safe humanitarian zone for refugees so they don't need to leave their country. they know the necessities of life will be met and in my view they should be pinpoint focussed on the position of humanitarian aid. this is the greatest crisis in terms of the numbers effected since world war ii. >> senator tim cakaine, thank y very much. >> as the refugee crisis continues to exploetde is the focus of this week's time magazine. we'll reveal the issue just ahead on morning joe.

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use your potion. sorry, not you. my pleasure. goodnight, tim. for all the confidence you need. who's tim? td ameritrade. you got this. it's gotten squarer. over the years. brighter. bigger. it's gotten thinner. even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers.

movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. you look at these photos and think you're looking at photos from 1946, the great migration. >> look at the eyes in the window. >> it's really unbelievable. >> look at the children and what she's reaching toward. >> the crisis and chaos that followed world war ii where millions were left to wonder across the continent. so many starved to death. >> it makes what tim kain just said, we're already now tens of thousands of people. this week's new issue of time

magazine is the epic migration to europe and what lies ahead. times editor at large joins the table. thank you for being with us. i can't take my eyes off some of these pictures. >> talking about theover all, the big picture on refugees and displace being people still in the country that have had to leave their homes. 60 million people which is the most that's been since world war ii. the serians are leaving middle east and making this crossing across the -- and this odyssey up through the balkins. this is in cr-- you get these pictures that draw on the history of europe and it's all kind of, it's powerful because

of what we remember of world war ii and railroad stations and refugees. these people are going where they want to go. it's so full of strife and stress to get there. he landed in croatia and landed and went to the border just as the hungarians closed their border and the people basically took a left and tried to go into croatia and find their way north that way. they're walking across a corn field and he gets pictures nobody else gets. it's extraordinary. >> you have the great migration rarely in modern history have so many been so desperate to flee. now their brave and tragic journeys are reshaping europe and the world. as you were saying earlier, nicole, this was looked at as a proposition. this was known to have happened

and yet with just everybody stood aside and let it happen. >> intelligence and a lack of will. >> and a very political debate in this country, president obama drew a red line, a variety of reasons he did not enforce the red line. i feel this power in these photos, so much has been forgot rn about the human lives if he canned. when america draws a red line for whatever reasons, if we don't do anything, there are so many human lives. the picture of the child is one i still can't look at until crying. >> until that little boy's body washed ashore, i don't know that this was a war felt. it was it w it w . >> we can relate.

they're wearing western clothes. there's a picture in here, this one. when times, when we first saw these photos coming in when they were first shown, i was fighting tears. this one, he's tracking his father. >> i remember a few years ago talking about the western, you talk about syria and a lot of americans may immediately think that it's parts of iraq. syria was far different. i remember that somebody with the cia saying we need to fly to jordan, get in the car. are you kidding me? no. the people in damascus love americans. it's a beautiful city. you will be shocked by what you see there. he said it's westernized. that's the great irony that the

people love. >> but yet as we sit here today, america has done very, very little. >> nothing. we have ignored this. >> whatever mistakes the europeans have made, they have been far more accommodating. they have done a lot more to take in the refugees. we've done nothing from the very beginning. we've drawn red lines and ignored them. we've told the russians to stay out. we let the russians go there. it's hard to imagine how to united states could make more mistakes over the last five years than we've made. >> the new issue of time is out right now. >> thank you for bringing this to us. up next, senator joe is here to talk about the new push. the wake in the latest massacre on a school campus. we'll be right back. become the only thing you think about.

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joining us, member of the senate armed committee, senator joe mancion of the senate armed

committee. >> good morning. you really do need to come down. >> yeah. >> we go out on our bus, have cocktails. >> yeah, we have to do it. who goes. >> we've had ted cruz come down. >> ted is like velcro, you can't get him down. >> chuck schumer sets the agenda. i think he thinks it's co-ownership. >> we spent a lot of time after newtown trying to think about how two guys with 100% nra ratings over their life time, how we could get some common sense legislation out there. we had some issues with two or three people in washington, d.c.

that run that end. but here we are three, four years later and the number of incidents since newtown is pretty staggering. >> two and a half years ago the manchin-toomey bill is there. it speaks on behalf of law abiding citizens like myself. it made sense then, it been out there for two and a half years, it makes sense now. if we're going to protect the rights of law abiding gun own exwe've ge owners, then we've got to stand up for law abiding gun owners.

why don't you ban a car that has 140 miles an hour. why have it? you can't use it? >> right. but there isn't a law that allows you to have a car that goes 140 miles an hour. this isn't a war against the nra. 85% of all americans support background checks, 79% of republicans, an extraordinarily high number of nra members and begun owners support background checks and keeping it out of terrorists' hands or keeping it out of the hands of those were mental illness. >> don't you think if we see a

void we should fix it? that's what we're sent here to do. i'm gone all over the state of west virginia. i've got a great state of west virginia. i'll make sure your rights are protected. if you like to go shooting, hunting, you should have at that right to do it. but if you go to a gun show, don't you think you ought to know the person that wants to buy your gun? that's all. and they all say yes. >> i mean, it makes sense. >> he's right. but it's beyond that. we did a piece -- >> sam, you have just moved the leadership in nra by you agreeing with joe manchin now -- >> we can stop the show. >> do you have a question? >> i just want to talk in

general about another component of this. we did a piece this week about research into gun policy. but the center for disease control and prevention is completely prevented from doing research on gun policy. scientists were wondering how it got to be and -- the threat would be that they'd advocate for gun control. but we don't spend any money looking at this. we talked to the guy who did this in 1997 and he regrets it. just funding things like funding gun control, are they -- maybe things down the tree a little bit like research. is that something that can be pushed now? >> we're looking at any opening that makes sense. first of all, we shouldn't call it gun control. we're not controlling your right as a law abiding citizen and law

abiding gunner to have a gun. we're not doing that. this should be just basically prevention from irresponsible gun ownership, people who shouldn't be able to have easy access to a gun, people that we know are not responsible. as a lifelong gun owner and someone who supports second amendment rights and i've been a lifetime member of the nra, people are just scared, will government really stop there? well, yes, they will. i'll fight hard as anybody to make sure you're treated as law-abiding citizens. you shouldn't be looked upon as a criminal because you own a gun or want to own a gun. >> do you agree part of the challenge is we can't seem to have a conversation about the mental health piece without. >> -- everyone's hair writing on

fire? >> john cornyn has a bill. i'm talking to hmm. let's see if we can incorporate that. maybe it makes a better piece of legislation than what we have today. mental illness is ani illness w don't pay much attention to. the reporting is done in virginia at a tremendous facility. we need to get accurate reporting. we should make sure they have accurate records, we want to help them. >> put up that last poll, guys. i just have a question.

the last poll about laws to stop mentally ill people from buying guns, who are the 19% of americans who oppose mentally ill people from buying guns? >> it's probably people who don't want people to stigmatize a population. >> those are only the people who have about ruled by a court as mentally unstable. >> all right, we must get down to washington. >> and hillary clinton's changed position on keystone is the

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it's a simple question. what's in your wallet? welcome to morning joe. >> he's sort of the batman of american poll tex, political reporting. >> i don't know if i want to hear what he has to say today. >> let's now find the robin of

american politics. >> nicole wallace. >> boy wonder. >> that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. >> don't take this from me. >> the riddler. >> and senior national correspondent from "bloomberg business week" josh green. we're not done yet. >> who am i, the riddler? >> jeremy, he's sort of batman. >> we're going to start with the kinder, gentler donald trump. >> oh really? i didn't hear this story. >> he's the nicest guy. >> is he really? we love him. he might be nice to us.

>> i can't wait to hear the story. >> we have that coming up. mark has something this morning. republican groups. robert, what do you think the appeal is? >> the wwf maybe. >> reminds me of mike tyson in his heyday when he was vicious. >> there's a growing sense of nationalism but it excludes others. >> it goes back to days when i would say hispanic or latino students, i would be in trouble but he gets away with it. >> what do you think about

donald trump? >> aggressive. nonsen nonsenseical, over the top. >> open minded. intelligent. >> politically incorrect. >> i would have to agree with you, politically incorrect. >> mouth shooting volcano. >> confident, arrogant, winner. >> how about that last line, winner. >> mark, what is your take? >> iowa republicans, a lot of. this want trump. they get him. they get his strengths and weaknesses. a lot of them say -- they see what's wrong with trump and see

his frailties and weaknesses. >> the last line they say in american politics is the most important line. they can say he's not a great christian, he's arrogant, he's bombastic, he's close minded, he say things they would never let his children get away with, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, winner. and americans feel they've been getting kicked around the last 50 years and they want to start winning one. >> we talk a lot about people's disgust with washington. that's certainly part of it. but i think what you're talking about explains the durability. if you take it to foreign policy, there's a feeling we've been coming up on the short end against putin. in the economy we hear messages we've added jobs but people don't feel like they're getting ahead. i think the outsider piece has made sense to me from the

beginning. this knows that we're going to restore the greatness is, to me, what buys him the latitude to be a whacko bird sometimes on the stump. people believe him when he says he will transfer some of his ability to do deals that make us get ahead, just put a winning brand on the country again. >> and elites in washington, new york and across the country are very arrogant about donald trump and they call him a buffoon but i think americans get it and i get it as somebody who is going to have to make a decision on who i'm going to vote for in the republican primary, and i haven't made that decision yet, that for all the bombastic, the crazy, donald trump has not only survived but excelled in the toughest market for real estate. he has been fighting new york

politics and press for 30, 40 years and he always comes out on top. that doesn't just happen by accident. he probably would be a pretty damn good negotiator and figure some things out that a guy that's been running for office as soon as he was 18 years old wouldn't. >> well, we'll see the next debate performance will be really interesting and important at this point. now let's get to the reaction to ben carson. >> what do you think his qualifications are to be president? >> common sense. >> clearly one of the most intelligent people in the race right now. >> he has everything i'm looking for. i think he treats the american people and the other candidates with respect. >> he's guided i think by very strong faith. >> true to himself. >> deep, thoughtful. seems generalon.

>> i'm going to play one little clip because this got a lot of attention. >> do you believe islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i don't. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. i absolutely would not agree with that. >> how many people agree with a what ben carson said with that? everybody? >> do you agree or disagree? >> one nation under god. >> who else agrees with what carson said? >> spot on. >> how many people in the room can imagine ben carson as president of the united states? how many of you can imagine ben carson not only being a nominee but being president of the united states? >> what do you imagine ben carson would be like? >> i think he would be going into meetings well thought out with probably some of the best minds as well.

>> i think he would bring back the world stature to the stage. >> he doesn't have the experience but i think that can be refreshing. >> i really think that he could create a much more peaceful world. >> his strength is that he's so thoughtful. but, again, then his weakness would be that he can't make those quick, hard decisions fast enough. >> i think it would be very much like having mr. rogers in the white house. >> the message he's bringing is everything i'm looking for. i'm just afraid that washington will swallow him up. >> well, we've got a lot to learn. >> i didn't cherry pick just the positive stuff. the gap between what they

thought and in washington, i understand the appeal better than i ever have. >> what's the appeal? >> they like his manner. >> people can like my manner. they don't want me operating on their brain. do people that you speak to and they look like great, solid, wonderful people, do they think that -- did you ask them if they thought he could actually run this country on the power of a mellow personality, that he's a mellow dude? because that's what he's got. he's a mellow dude and he's a christian. i went to sunday school every sunday for 18 years with people who were mellow dudes. they were not capable of running

the united states. >> we'll have a longer version of it. but just like with trump where they accept his warts, they believe his manner, his intelligence, his decembncy and his faith -- >> we have had a complete blind spot about ben carson. yes, of course we all have opinions. this is your opinion. but that is where people --

>> i still have a blind spot about ben carson. i have seen guys and women running in pensacola, florida, who got in there because they couldn't govern, they had no experience, they didn't know how to negotiate, didn't know how to do deals, didn't know how to work with other people that on a local level in pensacola, florida, they were a disaster. i have seen people on school boards that were good, christian people that got elected because they were good christian people. they went on school boards and ended up with grand juries coming after them. not because they were so bad people but because they were so over their head on the county school board. people are looking at this guy and saying he's a good, decent,

christian guy and they're ready for him to be president of the united states. i am sorry. eem going to stop here and not get on this train. i can tell you we're going down a dangerous path as a party and i dangerous path as a country if we republicans or democrats start electing people because they're nice christian folk and these are the same things they said when barack obama was being marketed like a can of soda pop. i said it in realtime that it was going to be disastrous on the foreign policy stage and republicans agreed with me then. now we've got a bunch of kids running for president that have been in the senate for two or three years, we've got doctors that have absolutely no experience that intelligent voters are saying we'll vote for him. well -- >> isn't it an indictment,

though, that they don't think anything is happening in washington that requires more experience? >> we've given that position to donald trump and we keep forgetting to -- >> doesnn't gloss over, though, their agreement with him on whether a muslim should be president. that statement was deannounced by people in the media and a lot of republican circles. there you have 11 out of 11 who agreed and 7 out of 7 in new hampshire who liked what he said. >> so it's okay to discriminate against muslims but not

mexicans. >>right. >> so we can discriminate against muslims and the constitution doesn't apply to muslim, but we have to be polite to mexicans. hold on one second. okay, i figured it out now. >> i noticed the same thing in cpac. it's almost a religious aspect of what they see in him. it's not just that he's mellow or smart. it's his biography, came from inner city detroit, pulled himself up, ended up at yale, became the foremost neurosurgeon, he made it in a way others haven't and they think that's applicable to the united states. >> all of these people that say he's an idiot, i know them, they

all voted for me and they would vote for me again. i don't get why they aren't working harder to find somebody that can actually get us out of the mess, i say this as a republican, that barack obama has put us in. whether it's in syria, whether it's in the middle east, whether it's iran, whether it's with obama care, i can go down the list. i'm not here saying i wish nelson rockefeller was still alive because that's when we were a conservative party. >> i weant a conservative who cn win. i don't want it to be a moderate

party. i want a rock rib conservative that can kick ass and not on win elections but can take this country back. and a mellow dude who happened to know how to get conjoined apart -- >> which is wildly impressive. i agree with you. people are very impressed. josh green, are you prooiz by the reaction to carson? >> no, i'm not. getting back to his muslim answer, i really do think the hidden source of his appeal is that he expresses a lot of opinions shared by trump supporters but he comes with a nice affect, he's a nicer man. he doesn't have that same kind of personal affront that trump has with people. it makes a whole lot of as soon as to me that voters in this focus group, people in iowa, would support his position. they're not looking for a wenner, a guy who can beat the

system, they're looking for somebody who is pure andin tainted by washington politics. >> still ahead on "morning joe," more of our one-on-within interview with bernie sanders. the difference between his approach and hillary clinton's when it comes to staking out clear political conditions. >> and later, senator claire mccaskell is our guest. ♪ talking about a sweet seasons on my mind ♪ it's not just big data, its bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution shouldn't be so much work. by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together. work can work better. with xerox. so you don't have to stop., tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain

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to defeating isis and weighs in on hillary clinton's long waited positions on key policy issues. >> i've got my view on keystone,

you've got your view on keystone. let's put it out there and debate it. how can hillary clinton take so long on a position as important as keystone and now tpp? >> i agree with you. you're right. it's not a complicated issue. you can be for it or against it but i think serious people have got to have an opinion on the issue. >> $18 trillion in new spending over a decade according to "the wall street journal." that could pose a problem in a debate with a republican opponent? >> we responded to their

analysis and it's really not a fair analysis. of the 18 trillion, 15 trillion has to deal with health care. what they forgot to tell the american people is whether you like single payer or not, the evidence is overwhelming that it will be less expensive than the current dysfunctional system that we now have. they forgot to tell the american people they would not be paying private health insurance costs at all. i think that was disingenuous on the part of "the wall street journal." but having said that, do i believe we should create millions of jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure? yes. do i believe we should make colleges and universities tuition free? yes. we impose a tax on wall street speculation. so we are going to spend a lot of money but we're going to

create a lot of jobs and we are going to pay for everything that we are proposing. >> i'd like to move to syria. not only look at what you think we should be doing now to deal with the multiple crises there, but back when president obama drew the red line, do you think that he handled assad the right way? what would you have done? >> look, as everybody knows who is not hyper partisan, these are enormously complicated issues. they are very difficult issues and, frankly, i think the president is doing a good job trying to sort through this and trying to make sure that we do not continue to have funerals back home for young american kids killed in combat. i voted against the war in iraq, and i believe that was the right vote because this war has led to

the destabilization of the situation right now. what i think what we have got to do right now is demand that the countries in that region, saudi arabia has the third largest military budget in the world. we restored the kuwaiti royal family to their position in the first gulf war. you got the uae sitting there, which is an extraordinarily wealthy family. the first point i would make is it is wrong to ask the united states of mamerica alone, our armed forces, our taxpayers to put that country back together again. you need a regional force of people prepared to take on isis and destroy that barbaric organization. in terms of assad, you have a horrendous dictator at war with his own people. i would put my major priority of

getting rid of ice is and phasing out we get rid of assad. it doesn't have to happen tomorrow. what we have also got do, and this is tough stuff, work with russia, work with saudi arabia, work with iran, all of whom who have common interest in that area in opposition to isis. >> final question. is there a moment, a particular moment in this incredible run for you, a prn you've met along the way that seems to encapsulate not only your campaign but also the frustrations with a lot of americans of how this economy has been going not only in the past four or eight years but since the 1970s, we've been struggling with deindustrialization and all the aspect of that. is there a moment in your campaign that crystallizes to you what your fight is all about -- >> why you're doing it.

>> as you guys first know, i was very hesitant getting into this race in the fs are place because we all know the ugly stuff that happens when you run for president. we were sitting at a deny's restaurant and a veteran came oaf and he had tears in eyes and said, bernie, thank you for the help you gave me and my family. and my wife said, you got to do it. and my wife has a lot of influence over me. >> are you enjoying yourself? you have a grueling schedule. >> we do. but i got tell you, there is enormous satisfaction in seeing folks respond to the message and prepare to fight for their country. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, guys.

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gathering to decide their nomination for speaker.

yesterday some members decided to back a senator from florida. joining us now from capitol hill, member of the senate armed services committee, democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri. >> claire, let start with the most important thing. first of all, i will come out any time during the playoffs. >> don't make promises. >> listen, i will wear a cardinals uniform and i will rake light dirt. >> listen, missouri is on fire. we have the royals and the cardinals and it october. so we're talking baseball in missouri. >> it pretty incredible. your tweet was shoring more injuries than most teams could handle, five postseasons in a

row, three division titles in a row. grit, determination. that's our cardinals. at some point somebody is going to write an exhaustive book about the cardinals organization. it is the best of the best of the best. it's really extraordinary what they do year in and year out. >> with all the injuries particularly this year it's been tough. but, joe, i thought you were going to have me in to talk about jeb bush's flip not on immigration. >> what flip flop is that? >> pathway to citizenship. he used to favor it, now he's against it. and why? >> i don't know. obviously you've come loaded for bear. go ahead. >> i've been listening to you guys this morning. i think some of it has been unfair and not balanced and you look at marco rubio, you look at jeb bush and the changing in their position to twist and distort themselves to appeal to

the same people who want to elect donald trump president. it's something to see. and i just don't hear enough talk about that. >> i think certainly over the past several months, nobody in marco rubio's camp would suggest i've taken it too easy on rubio for his flip-flops. i'm a lawyer. i've spent hundreds of house digging through case law and depositions and i can't tell you what rubio's take is on immigration. hillary clinton, it's taken her a while to get through a position on key stone, on tpp. i've never seen you do this yourself. >> in fairness to hillary clinton, she voted against some trade deals in congress and voted against other. she publicly called out the

investor state provisions of this in her book. long before she declared she was running for president. i think really that this is -- it's hard. it's hard. and i think that -- >> you sound like george w. bush now, by the way. it's hard, it's hard. >> i'm just saying it is hard. the notion -- everybody evolves on positions. i'm glad that bernie has evolved on guns. this is somebody, you know, bernie now is four square with us about what we need to do but this is somebody who voted against the brady bill. so i just don't think to pick on her because she is now saying she doesn't think this is going to meet her high bar for various protections that she thinks needs to be in place. she and i may disagree on it ultimately. i haven't decided yet. i voted for tpa. i haven't decided on tpp. but i really don't think this is an indication that she is

somehow unprincipled or weak. i think that's totally wrong. >> claire, if i saw you on a clip a couple of years ago speaking as forcefully has -- on tpp -- >> what was her job then, joe? >> the only time i've seen you be disingenuous is when you lied through your teeth and said you never had anything to do with aiken winning the primary. >> i never said that, scarborough. you are wrong about that! >> it was one of your priceless moments. >> that clip is when she was secretary of state in an administration that very much wanted to get a strong deal. and the notion that as the secretary of state in a different administration that wanted to get a strong deal,

that somehow that removes her ability to make an independent analysis as an independent candidate for president is just unfair. >> does the same hold true for keystone? >> listen, keystone also is a very tough position. i have a different position than she does on keystone. but this is not easy, key stone. key stone has a lot of things in favor of it and a lot of things against it. i just wish we could have the same kind of time talking about some of the distortions and the pretzel-like behavior that you guys spend on hillary. it's ridiculous. >> i will go back to rubio flopping -- >> i don't remember you asking jeb when he was on the program about his change in pathway to citizenship. >> we'll get him next time. i believe he'll come here again.

>> i believe hillary clinton will come on your show, even though it is somewhat going into the lion's den. >> come on. when you were supporting barack obama in 2008, we were the only people in television that were fair to her. we're tough about everybody. you have heard what we've said about kevin mccarthy, what we've been saying about ben carson? i've never been as tough on anybody as carson. >> what are you trying to -- >> uh-oh, now you've got mika upset. >> hold on. i want to hear what you have to say, claire. i think sometimes you might misunderstand questions and take it as like an attack. and i think that's a political ploy. i think that's a game that's been played since the 07s and it's getting old. >> you know we like hillary personally. >> look, guys, i'm just looking for balance.

you guys just crawled all over steve rattner this morning. >> poor steve. >> it was all gang on and i just think that there are times when the other position is -- doesn't have a chance to forcefully come forward and i can't be on every morning. >> okay. so let me -- >> it's really early. look you're not free at 6? >> exactly. no, only 8:30. >> we watched hillary clinton's evolution on the latest tpp. and some might say that she would sometimes say things just in order to get elected as opposed to truly believing in them. is that not a fair concern? it's a question. >> i think my point is, mika, that i think it's a fair concern, i think it's a fair question but in the context of that conversation, i think it would have been helpful to the bring up the fact that the exact same thing has occurred with marco rubio and jeb bush. >> we say that when it happens.

>> we think that's why they're doing badly. >> i wish you had the same for me when they all attacked me for defending jeb bush. you were the apex pred pred for of hillary clinton -- is she telling the truth as the secretary of state? i have no dog in the fight, i don't care whether it's her, i don't care how it ends. >> i think you do care whether it's her or bernie. >> because talking about her e-mail service on her godaddy classification would be a bummer for me. but which was the true hillary? was she telling the truth as our country's secretary of state or was that a lie or is she telling the truth as a candidate, is that a lie? >> at the point in time -- let

me finish the discussion, nicole. she said tpp is the gold standard, all of that was true. but there was not even -- >> she knew everything that was going to be in it. >> people didn't know what was going to be in it two weeks ago. >> so very different now than when she was secretary of state at the podium? >> the point is she was part of the administration that was supporting the advancement of tpp. she now as an independent candidate for president has looked at tpp and doesn't think it reaches the bar she need to support free trade. she's voted for trade agreements and against -- >> so she was for it before she was against it. >> not to step in here nicole and go against you, i have always said that all the world is a stage.

you did certain things for the bush administration that you don't do now on this show. >> absolutely. >> if i'm secretary of state and my president is wringing his or her hands on whether to support something, i call him in and say you either do something or get the hell out. >> mika asks questions on what she actually believes. i didn't does she actually believe? >> i think it's important to just push back a little that there seems to be a few moments that there aren't enough voices taking the counter position. that's just my position, i may be dead wrong or may be too biased. i always say what i think. >> claire, you and i had a talk about this in chicago. i want to hear exactly what you think i'm missing. i want to not just hear it in chicago, i want to hear it in the air. i feel like i'm asking questions and i'm transparent about the

fact that i would like to see a democrat win this election. i would like to see hillary clinton do better. i have concerns and questions. tell me what it is that i'm missing in that. >> you know how sometimes joe gets rolling and you can't stop him? you are the only one that can. sometimes he gets rolling and i think people expect you to provide that balance. that's the kind of dynamic of the show. and i think sometimes it's felt like it's just been kind of a runaway train rolling over hillary clinton. >> but, claire, again i -- i could -- >> listen, guys, listen -- >> no, this is fascinating. >> it's important, too, that you're looking at it as someone who supports and believes in hillary clinton. marco rubio's people have a real problem with me, ben carson's people have a real problem with me. mitt romney's people in 2012

hated me, even though i had a great relationship and loved mitt romney as a person. jeb bush's people, a guy i've been incredibly close to for a long time. >> i hated you in a way -- not you. you. >> nicole hated me in '08 with john mccain. >> i hate you today. >> joe, i think you need to get some help here. >> i think she needs to come on the show. >> actually, i don't need help. the republicans who hated me in '08 came to me afterwards and said you were right. the people who hated me in '12 when i was attacking his poor came pain said to me and said "you were right ". hillary clinton herself knows i like her very much and i was the only person around here who was fighting like hell to make sure she got a fair shake in 2008 and i'll do it again. i like hillary, i like jeb, i love mitt, i like everybody.

i'd like to teach the world to sing. >> he's a lover. >> the one thing you guys won't have to worry about is whether i'll ever come on here and say exactly what i'm thinking. at least we established that today. >> we think you're great. by the way, i will out in a cardinals uniform rake anything dirt you want me to rake. >> this will be interesting. the cubs are really tough. i don't know if you saw the game last night but arrieta is a monster. with the timing he can't pitch twice in five games. >> he shut the pirates down. >> shut them down. >> claire, we have an invitation to hillary clinton now. >> i this she's coming on. >> she'll come on. >> we invite to you come to the table, too. i would be great. >> want to be here when hillary is here? >> absolutely. >> no, no, no, no. >> nobody can do a better job than hillary clinton in this environment. i have complete confidence in

her. i'll be glad to come on from time to time and put back. >> what we're saying is while hillary's here, if i start to do a follow-up question, which a lot of people don't like to do, you can grab me and put duct tame -- tape on me. >> i want to get one of those shocker things that you can use remotely so i can shoot you one of those shocks. >> geez. >> that is not senatorial at all. >> that's why we love her. that's why she's the best. >> buy claire mccaskill's book on amazon.

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she's the best they've got. but the critique of you about hillary, no. it's hillary's job to come here and defend herself. >> i really respect claire mccaskill and a lot of people i respect have approached me about this. so i'm trying -- i'm listening. >> we respect everybody except sam stein. coming up next -- hey, sam. >> a russian president celebrates his birthday exactly how you would expect him to. naked on a hockey rink. >> what? excellent looking below the surface, researching a hunch... and making a decision

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