is an easy way to get those one pcers into the conversation. >> but that doesn't help clinton. >> ryan or biden? you think ryan first? >> i think ryan's inclined to do it, but he has to make some sort of agreement with the freedom caucus. >> thank you both. we'll be back wednesday with more "mtp daily" live from new hampshire. steve kornacki picks up our coverage, next. >> right now on msnbc live, it is fight night in vegas. five democrats squaring off in the main event coming up this hour. we're going to break down which candidate is the odds-on favorite in tonight's debate and who might the wild card be. plus, what happens in vegas doesn't always stay in vegas. the showdown between dnc head debbie wasserman schultz and vice chairwoman, tulsy gabbard. allegations flying back and forth between them. also, betting on biden. is the vice president all in or is he bluffing?

good evening, everyone. i'm steve kornacki. we are getting ready for one of the biggest moments in the 2016 race so far. certainly, the biggest moment yet on the democratic side. in about 2 1/2 hours from now, the five democratic candidates will be on stage, squaring off in las vegas for their first nationally televised debate. and if you look at the average of the most recent democratic polls, hillary clinton comes in tonight as the clear front-runner. she does have a double-digit lead with 43%. her biggest rival, senator bernie sanders from vermont, getting about 25%. we should say, though, when this race began, if you said it was going to be 18 points between the two of them coming into the first debate, no one would have believed you. that is much closer than anyone ever thought this would be. and jim webb, martin o'malley, lincoln chafee pulling up the rear, each one bringing in less than 1%. this poll includes vice president joe biden as well. he has yet to get into this

race. he's keeping everybody guessing. he's at 17% right now. not revealing wlorn he's in this race, so he will not be on that debate stage tonight. in vegas, the stakes are high for the front-runner. one of the possible pitfalls for clinton and how will her foes try to take her down. "hardball" host chris matthews is live in the spin room at the wynn hotel out there in las vegas. he joins us now. chris, thanks for taking a few minutes. i know there's five candidates up on that stage, but let's focus on the two biggest names right now, hillary clinton and bernie sanders. i'm curious from your standpoint, what's a good night for hillary clinton? what's a good night for bernie sanders? >> well, a good night is we didn't have tonight for hillary clinton. i don't know how you win if you're hillary clinton. because i can imagine the people in the corner with their towels over their shoulder, giving her advice right now. the mickey on rocky. they're telling her, be charming. another one of these, you have to humanize yourself numbers they do on her all the time, for the millionth time.

that's hard to be human when you're in there debating somebody. and secondly, he has to knock him down a little bit, because he's selling. people are buying it, he's saying, we can have free public education at the highest level, we can have free health care, we can have whatever else, the fact is -- we can have lots of stuff. and she has to come in there and play the republican, like, well, we can't afford that. that's a very unpleasant role to play in a democratic debate. and at the same time, she has to defend herself on her late coming on pipeline, on keystone, on the cadillac tax, and of course on the tpp. all those things where she's had this new religion since she's called herself a moderate. obviously, she's not going to be comfortable based on what she said about bernie being a socialist. she's not comfortable saying there's something wrong with a person who's not a believer in free enterprise and free markets. but at some point, she'll have to confront him. i don't think it's tonight. but also, the c.o. problem, how

do you get someone who applied to be c.o. in the army, who at one point in his life said he was a pacifist? i think it's very hard for her to take on he in the way a normal moderator or commentator could. because she doesn't want to alienate any of his supporters. >> and so, what about sanders? is it a win for him, the simple fact he's going to be up on stage with her, millions of people watching on television? does it elevate his stature, just being there? or does he need to do something else tonight? >> well, i think, ironically, there's two things he can learn from ronald reagan. one, don't assume that everybody's heard your line before. he's got a big audience tonight. maybe nothing like the audience we've had for the republican debates, but maybe 5 to 10 million people. these people have never heard him before. he should go out there tonight, as if he's a political virgin on the national stage, give them all the arguments he's made, which is very powerful. really serenade them with every line he's ever come up with. all the original material. use it again tonight.

because your fans won't mind hearing it again, but the new people who are coming tonight will want to hear it. he has another reagan advantage. if hillary takes even an indirect shot at him about the financing of his programs, if i were bernie, i would come back and say, that's a good question. i think we should ask that question about wars, when we start wars. how much are they going to cost us? how come we don't ask those questions, pa dam secretary? and so, he just pins her back on her biggest vulnerability. the minute she questions his spending programs or her costs, she pins him down with the hardest shot she could make at, which is very to me, decent, you never asked how much the iraq war was going to cost when you signed on to authorize it. nail her flat with that. that would be a showstopper and it would be an attack from a defensive position, therefore the crowd would root for him. so she has to be very careful. >> her achilles' heel. >> she has to be very careful not to wrap her. if he goes after her, he

legitimatizes his assault back to her, a woman, and that's always a factor to some extent. and comes back and knocks her, the hardest knock of the night. >> and obviously, that was such a problem for her in 2008, was trying to explain that iraq war vote. but also, we're going back in time a little bit today. this clip has been making the rounds, looking back at hillary clinton the last time she ran for president, the last time she had to debate, there was this moment, an msnbc debate that tim russert was moderating down in philadelphia, around this time eight years ago, when she was asked that question about driver's licenses for illegal immigrants. let's just play that clip and ask you about it. >> senator clinton, i want to make sure what you heard. do you, the new york senator, hillary clinton, support the new york governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license? you told the new hampshire paper it made a lot of sense. do you support his plan? >> you know, tim, this is where everybody plays gotcha. it makes a lot of sense.

what is the governor supposed to do? he is dealing with a serious problem. we have failed and george bush has failed. do i think this is the best thing for any governor to do? no. >> and chris, that was such a pivotal moment in that campaign. it reinforced a lot of the negative perceptions people had about her. when you look at the hillary clinton who's running for president, do you see someone who would handle that situation better? >> well, timothy russert was like an irish cop there. i mean, he was asking her questions that required her to establish her loyalties. was she going to be loyal to spitzer, the governor at the time? was she going to be loyal to the hispanic constituency out there, that she needs in the primaries? was she going to be loyal to the average person out there that's tired of these phoney i.d. cards being given out, because 9/11 people were carrying a lot of those phoney cards from states like -- phoney driver's licenses from states like virginia. they were actually real driver's licenses, but they weren't legally in this country, those people who were carrying them spop there were a lot of loyalties that she had

established, and she couldn't quick think enough and decide. by the way, you didn't show that she did come down on the side of spitzer there and the hispanic groups. and some other people jumped her at that point and said, we shouldn't be issuing phony i.d. cards. and she really did get caught in that because of conflicting loyalties. that's always what you do, in philadelphia, it's called middling someone. you force them on the spot to choose between two conflicting constituencies. a smart moderator or challenger will do that. who are row going to vote for? who are you with? and make them decide on the spot. and that requires spontaneity. that's where a guy like trump is brilliant with spontaneity. and i don't think hillary clinton, that's her strong suit, spontaneity. you have to decide right then who you're loyal to. unless, you know, it's coming and very tough to make that call. that was a tough call for her. >> let me ask you about the dilemmas her opponents face, whether it's bernie sanders or any of the others on the stage tonight, i think back to that exchange she had with barack obama in 2008. a lot of people probably remember when obama called her, quote, "likable enough," and he

seemed very cold and humanized her. there is that possibility for blowback if these candidates go after her in the wrong way. >> i think she said something, that hurts my feelings. she used that phrase unfortunately, again. never use the same phrase again. yeah, i think it's about spontaneity. you know, i say this a lot. a pollster from canada once told me something, which is true about every politician. you have to have three ingredients. motive. why are you there. it's pretty clear why hillary clinton is in politics. she's somewhat of the center left who has deep commitments for children and child development education, things like that, because that's how she got where she got. pretty clear commitments there and a bit of a hawk on foreign policy, we know that. more than obama. we know where she is, basically. secondly, passion, the things she really care about. there are things she really does care about, especially children. third, this is where she's weak, spontaneity. the lights are oon in someone's home, that's a hard one. very few people under the pressure of the lights with all

those cameras on you think quickly and brilliantly. at that moment, they didn't know themselves they had it in them. and that's where it's going to be a challenge for her. all four of the other people are after her. they'll all be headed in different ways and she'll have to have some quick responses. and it can't just be a canned something her staff came up, because you can always spot those babies. reagan's best line, when he defeated jimmy carter is a line that's almost indecipherable, but everybody sort of got it, there you go again, mr. president. it was a brilliant put away of carter, just clinging to office, just hanging on. it was a brilliant dismissal of the guy, that everybody got, and i don't think it was rehearsed. and i'm telling you, that's what she's up against tonight. her challenge tonight is she's trying to prevent defense against this guy. it's going to hurt her. she has to take him on. but if she takes him on, she's going to give him license to attack her. and she also has to do it all with this background of somebody over a towel over her shoulder in the back room saying, oh,

you've got to humanize yourself. that is nonsense. be yourself, hillary. take your chances o out there. be the smartest person out there, the best prepared, the one who's worked the hardest to get to that room and take them on with a little feistiness. i think people would like that. >> all right. we are just a few hours away from that big debate. for now, msnbc's chris matthews live in vegas. thanks for taking a few minutes. appreciate it. >> always great, steve. >> be sure to watch "hardball" live from las vegas right here on msnbc, both at 7:00 eastern tonight, again at 11:00 p.m., after that debate. also, coming up this hour, a democratic war of words. was a congresswoman disinvited from tonight's debate? dnc chair debbie wasserman schultz responds. that's ahead. plus, how will lincoln chafee challenge bernie sanders tonight? does martin o'malley have the debating chops to go head-to-head with hillary? we'll take a look at every candidate's debating style. but first, donald trump is watching tonight's debate and he tweets, "at the request of many,

and even though i expect it to be a very boring two hours, i will be covering the democratic debate live on twitter." the reply from the clinton campaign, "glad you'll be watching. it's going to be huge." life's all about learning.... asking questions.... having new experiences. are you ready? the key to a happy satisfying life is to always be curious. jibo, how are you doing? i'm great! every moment is our moment. are you enjoying this? it's been such a whirlwind. i want to get to know people and understand their ideas about everything. so you can too.

there is one event today that may be more exciting than the first democratic presidential debate. it involves a republican. take a look. this is live video of senator rand paul. he is streaming his entire day today on the campaign trail, out in iowa. he is the first presidential candidate ever to do this. his goal so to reach out to younger voters. throughout the day, anyone tuning into this feed has been able to see images of paul riding shotgun in a car, talking to students at a college, spending some time with his supporters, talking policy with former ufc champ, pat militidge.

he's been doing his best to keep his followers engaged, even taking a jab at his opponents. >> do you see any big difference between hillary and bernie? >> well, i'm guessing they see the same hairstylist. and you know, i think they're both similar in the sense that they both believe that government is the answer to most things. >> now, in the republican race, paul has a lot of ground to make up. he currently ranks 8 out of all 15 republican candidates just 3% of the vote. also, struggling in fund-raising recently. we'll check back in later on paul's live stream to see what else he's up to.

tonight is the first democratic debate of the 2016 race, but it's not going to be the last. the democratic national committee has announced a total of six primary debates between now and february or march. that is the same number of debates the party sanctioned in 2008 and in 2004, the last elections where there wasn't a democratic incumbent. but there were also many more unsanctioned debates in those two elections. in 2008, the democrats actually debated for a total of 25 times. and in 2004, that number was 15. but this year, the dnc is cracking down on those unsanctioned debates, saying that any candidate who participates in one of them will be disinvited from official debates in the future. and that decision has caused some friction in the party. and it has spilled into public view.

when dnc vice chairwoman congresswoman tollsy gabert of hawaii told me last week that she is pushing for more debates. >> what i am seeing is that more and more people on the ground from states all across the country are calling for more debates. are wanting to have this transparency and this greater engagement in our democratic process, at a critical time, as they make the decision of who should be the next person to lead our country. >> gabert said after she made those comments last week, she was disinvited from tonight's debate by dnc chairwoman debbie wasserman schultz. today, debbie wasserman schultz said the congresswoman was not disinvited, and gabbard again insisted she was. joining me now, congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz, chairwoman of the dnc. so what is the story. tulsi said she came on this

network, called for more debates, heard from you and your team and she was told she's not welcome out there tonight. what do you say to that? >> what i say is that we are literally a couple of hours from the first democratic debate and the focus should be on our candidates, on the dramatic contrast between any of our democratic candidates, steve, and the 15 candidates that are left in the republican circus that is going on on the other side of the aisle. and congresswoman gabbard was asked to keep our focus on the candidates. we're a big tent party and have a variety of opinions. in fact, leader harry reid today was asked about, you know what he thought about the number of debates and agreed that six debates was enough. so the point is is that we shouldn't be focused on process. at this point, we've got to make sure, and i have to make sure, as the national party chair that i can get our party in the strongest possible position to launch our nominee when we eventually have one, you know, from philadelphia, back to the white house so we can continue the progress we've made as a country. >> let me make sure i'm clear.

i'm trying to understand what you're saying. are you saying that she was told, that you communicated to her that she would be welcome at the debate, as long as she didn't say anything else about her desire for there to be more debates? >> first of all, she was not uninvited. it was made clear between our staffs that the important thing is during this debate, that we focus on our candidates, not on process. ultimately, she decided not to come, because she agreed that she would likely be a distraction. she was not uninvited, but, look, you know, this is -- herein lies the problem. we are spending an inordinate amount of time talking about process, when we should be talking about the dramatic contrast between our candidates and the republicans. the fact that our candidates tonight will talk about how we can help americans reach the middle class, how we can expand access to a good education. make sure people have a good roof over their head. make sure that we can maintain a retirement system that is secure

and that is reliable. make sure that we can keep access to affordable health care for the 17 million americans that have it now. contrast that with the republicans, who want to take us backwards to the failed policies of the past. that's what we should be talking about and that's what she was urged to focus on. >> i take your point, but -- >> and i guess she couldn't do that. >> i take your point, but wouldn't there be the sort of contrast you're talking about, wouldn't having more debates allow you to present that contrast more? she's saying right now you have six scheduled, only four of them are scheduled before anyone starts voting. so wouldn't expanding this and having more debates? i mean, there were 2w5 eight years ago. there were more than a dozen back in 2004. now there's only six. why not have more? >> steve, we have five candidates and six debates. and a wide variety of other opportunities, which is important for voters to be able to have a chance to kick the tires, get a close look at our candidates. we have a four early state primary system, that begins our primary nominating contest, so

those voters can get an up close and personal look. we have candidate forums scheduled with media partners. there's one coming up on october 6th that all the candidates are participating in. the bottom line, we need to make sure that the candidates are not pulled off the campaign trail, you know, for, you know, 20-some odd debates like they were in 2008. that was too much. and we need a variety of opportunities for folks to get a look at our candidates. and they'll have that. again, it's unfortunate that congressman gabbard chose to focus on process rather than keeping the focus on the contrast between our candidates and their message. i'm going to stay focused as the party chair on making sure we can get our party ready to support our nominee and to make sure we can highlight our great candidates. that's what we should all about, rowing in the same direction. >> congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz, the chair of the dnc, thanks for joining pus. >> thank you, steve. and still ahead, you've seen hillary clinton debate, but what about the four other candidates that will be up on that stage tonight? we'll have a preview of their

debating styles, coming up. also, courting the labor votes. several unions still haven't decided who they'll back in 2016. could tonight's debate help win thoem them over? but first, donald trump will be hosting "saturday night live." the show announcing today that the presidential hopeful will take to the late night stage once again on november 7th, almost exactly one year before election day. trump last hosted the show back in twor. so what's your news? i got a job! i'll be programming at ge.

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we have seen hillary clinton debate on the national stage before. many times, in fact. but we have yet to see how the other four candidates will hold up under the spotlight of a nationally televised presidential debate. so to give you a taste of what to expect tonight, we decided to take a look back at their most recent performances. these are debates from their most recent campaigns in their home states. let's start with bernie sanders. three years ago in 2012, he ran

for re-election as a senator from vermont and he showed no reservations when it came to attacking his republican opponent. >> john, i think you did say, if i remember correctly, that the ryan budget was quote/unquote, too timid and you would be bolder. did you say that? >> i did. i did. >> and let's be clear, what the ryan budget does is make devastating cuts in virtually every social program. $700 billion over a ten-year program in medicaid, ending medicare as we know it right now, major cuts in pell grants, major cuts in nutrition programs and i have no doubt that that's there as well. there are ways to do deficit reduction and do it not on the backs of the elderly, the children, the sick, and the poor, and that's by asking elderly corporations to start paying their fair share of taxes. >> sanders won that race in a

landslide. he got more than 70% of the vote, even though he didn't run a single ad on television. vermont is a small state, where a lot of voters like to feel a more personal connection to their political leaders. then there is martin o'malley. his last campaign was a 2010 re-election bid for governor of maryland. it was actually a rematch. he squared off with bob ehrlich. he was the republican that o'malley had unseated as governor in 2006. and this one got personal and it got nasty. >> why don't you come with me to paterson park charter schools -- >> i've been to those -- >> why don't you ever mention the places where kids are making progress? you always talk, bob, in very coded language about kids who aren't succeeding. >> i will always talk about the kids that are being denied their constitutional rights. >> but you never talk about the things they're doing well, do they? >> o'malley baseball doubled his margin against ehrlich from four years ago earlier. and as soon as that race was

over in 2010, o'malley began laying the groundwork for the presidential campaign that he is now waging. and let's not forget the other two candidates who are going to be up there on stage tonight. neither has received much attention tonight. this will be, by far, the most exposure they've gotten in this campaign. they are, however, both debate veterans. lincoln chafee's last time on stage was in 2010, when he left the republican party and ran and won as an independent in the race for governor of rhode island. and jim webb dwebated back in 2006 when he won one of the most closely watched senate races in america that year against republican independent george allen. >> i think some of those lesser crimes, victimless crimes, we might have to look at, as these costs spiral. some of these crimes, prostitution, it's a difficult issue, what they call victimless crimes. you might, of course, say that the women are victims

themselves, but low-level marijuana use and look at that, instead of the aci, which is costing the taxpayer so much money. >> i have written books, george, i have written books. i confess. this whole thing about jim webb, fiction writer, what is fact versus fiction here? >> if you're a political history buff, you probably remember the bigger reason that webb managed to beat allen in that race, it was the so-called macaca moment. google it if you don't remember it. and trust me, none of the candidates on stage tonight want to have any kind of replication of that moment for themselves. coming up, some big labor unions are still undecided over which candidate they'll back for the presidency. what will they be watching for tonight? and he's not saying a word about whether he'll jump in the race, but democrats are saying, "run, joe, run," at least some of them are. what would a joe biden candidacy do to the democratic race? but first, republican presidential candidate ted cruz quoting lines from "the princess

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a labor group protesting trump. >> i think you have a right to organize, you have a right to safe working conditions, you have a right to a living wage. >> and clinton has more labor endorsements so far than bernie sanders, including two education unions, the nft and the naa. some smaller groups have also endorsed clinton, including the united brotherhood of carpeters and jointers. the united brotherhood of unions and the bricklayers. senator sander has picked up the national union of health care workers and the national nurses united. other big endorsements that are extremely important remain up for grabs. the afl-cio, the united steelworkers, the communications workers, the teamsters, the united food and commercial workers, and afscme.

>> workers want to hear precisely what a candidate is going to do to rewrite the rules in favor of working people. they've been talking about those rules, how they would change the rules. that's what's important to workers out there. not labels, not e-mails but what you're going to do to make my life and my children's lives better in america. >> joining me now is larry cohen, an adviser to the bernie sanders campaign and a former president of the communication workers of america, and brian fallon, the press secretary for hillary for america. brian, let me start with you. you heard it right there from richard trump. he said he wants to know how the candidates are going to rewrite the rules for union members. how will -- what rules will hillary clinton rewrite and how will she rewrite them? >> i would just mention, steve, i think you neglected to mention the plumbers and pipe fitters, another union endorsement we're very proud to have. and randy wine garten is

actually here representing the teachers. another endorsement we're very proud to have. the number one issue for hillary clinton in this campaign and the number one issue she would focus on if she were elected president is increasing wages for american workers. and she has a multi-faceted plan to try to achieve that. she's in favor of increasing the minimum wage. that's an important priority. but beyond that, she's also laid out a plan for increasing profit sharing at companies. you've seen record profits at corporations that have done quite nicely since the recovery over the last few years. but you're not seeing those rewards shared down at the level of the rank and file employees that have help made -- whose productivity increases have helped make those profits possible. that was a very innovative policy, new idea that you're not hearing elsewhere. that's just one example of her commitment to increasing wages across the board for american workers. >> so, larry, you heard brian

lay it out right there, what the agenda would be from hillary's standpoint. what does labor get from bernie sanders that it will not get from hillary clinton? >> first of all, a $15 minimum wage. he's very clear on that. secondly, the right to organize. last week, he introduced the workplace democracy act, for the second time in his congressional career, he's out there when workers are organizing all the time. he's out there on picket lines. he makes it clear he's not with the bosses, he's not a neutral. he believes that income inequality in this country is way off-base and we need to redirect it for working families. the list goes on from there. higher education paid for with a financial transaction tax. that's for our kids, for working class kids. it's a total redirection led by a political revolution, which means we're not going to make it with business as usual. we're not going to make it with a third term, essentially, for this president. we need a mass movement in this

country, from burlington, iowa, to burlington, vermont, to the bay area in california, and we need millions of people involved, as they're involved now in this campaign. >> i want to ask you both the same question. i'm curious how you think about this one. brian, i'll start with you. you both laid out agendas there, ambitious agendas, but we seem to live in this era, right now it seems of almost permanently divided government. we talk about the strength republicans have in the house. they have almost the highest number of seats in the house they've had since world war ii. they control the senate. there's always the possibility of a landslide in 1206. but more than likely, if there's a democratic candidate in 2017, at least one of those chambers will be controlled by republicans. so how, brian, would hillary clinton be able to get the kind of agenda you're describing through a republican congress, when we've seen what's happened in the last eight years with barack obama, or the last six years with barack obama dealing with that? >> sure, steve. well, actually, the point you make is a very salient one. and that's why i think on many of the issues where hillary

clinton has outlined bold, progressive policies, she's actually gone so far as to detail the mechanisms by which she would seek to achieve them. and in some cases, she's said that where congress drags its feet, and if congress continues to stall action, as we've seen for too long over the last six years ago, that she would be willing to pursue action through executive order. you saw her articulate a vision for how we can close the gun show loophole, for instance, villa executive order. that has sparked a conversation now over the last couple of weeks about whether the administration might, itself, consider such an action. on immigration, she said that she would not only protect the executive orders that the president has issued on doca, but go and extend similar relief to parents of dreamers if congress stalls immigration reform, which is obviously a big priority of organized labor. so hillary clinton is a fighter. she'll take that fighting spirit to washington as president. and to the extent that she's

been willing to work with republicans and able to achieve results when she was in the senate. she worked with lindsey graham on veterans issues, tricare. but when it's necessary to overcome republican intransigenintrance intransigence, she'll pursue it as necessary. >> what about bernie sanders? >> i don't think anyone can work with republicans when it comes to restoring collective bargaining rights, collecti bargaining rights for the 21st century. the united states is now near the bottom. that's why bernie sanders is so clear and has been clear rejecting fastrack, rejecting the transpacific partnership. that plus collective bargaining collapsing accounts for two-thirds of economic inequality in this country. frankly, you can't get at it just with a minimum wage. that's why he calls for a political revolution. we have to take this to every town in this country. his election will be the beginning of that, but we can't achieve it without major investment of working people,

seniors, students, to take back this country from the billionaires and the super pacs that are poisoning our politics. >> all right. larry cohen, adviser to senator bernie sanders, brian fallon from hillary for america, thank you for joining us. and coming up, bernie sanders has scored his first congressional endorsements, but will they help his campaign? and vice president joe biden still hasn't decided whether he'll jump into the democratic race. has his time to declare come and gone? but first, any bets on whether president obama will be watching the debate in vegas tonight? >> i wouldn't be surprised if the president catches part of the debate tonight. i don't think that he will watch it wire-to-wire. there is a -- some pretty good playoff baseball on tonight. so i would anticipate that he may be doing a little channel surfing. nt. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would.

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in the past few days, vermont senator bernie sanders has gotten a boost. his first congressional endorsements of the campaign. congressman raul grijalva and keith ellison have both officially endorsed sanders for president. they are the two co-chairs of the congressional caucus, that is a group sanders helped to found back in 1991. sanders is currently the only member of it in the senate. on friday, grijalva explained why he was backing sanders.

>> it's way past time that we had a national campaign and a voice that speaks truth to po r power. >> joining me now is congressman raul grijalva, a democrat from arizona, one of the two congressman who have now endorsed sanders. we talk so much about the importance of endorsements. at this point, hillary clinton has far, far more than bernie sanders. these are the first two congressional endorsements he's put on the board. we also mentioned that bernie sanders is was of the founders of the congressional caucus. my first question, how long it's taken so long for any members of the congressional professional caucus to come out in favor of him and what's holding the rest back? >> i don't know. i really don't, steve, and thank you. my reason for endorsing him was

mine. in the sense that i want to associate myself with this campaign, bernie's a freniend, t aside from friendship, it is something that this campaign and the message he's laying out to the american people is something i want to be associated with. i have spent a lifetime in politics and in progressive politics and the issue that he's bringing up have been muted for so many years, triangulated, lessened, and the fact that he is at a national level, and with this debate coming up, an expanded national audience, to talk about issues that, i think, are really, really resonating with the american people. so, for me, my endorsement was one based on the fact that this is a campaign that has unmuted a voice in this country, the political climate that needs to be heard. i'm very comfortable with that. others members may not be there,

other members could be there. the fact of the matter is, endorsements are important, but in grassroots campaign that bernie's running, they're not critical. >> do you think they might be worried about electability? about the idea of, you know, i don't want to go out on a limb for somebody if i don't think he can win. and i might alienate hillary clinton? >> steve, it's an excellent point. you know, nobody wants to deal with retribution after the fact. and electability. well, bernie is saying a good thing, but we need to go with someone that's going to win. i hope to think that bernie is saying a good thing. and the potential to galvanize a huge block of the american voters to not only participate and much of that block does it, and to be able to identify with the political message that hasn't been done before, you know, democrats have defeated 2014 was a consequence of not having an economic agenda. bernie's went out now and i think it's going to help not only bernie, but the whole part.

>> along those lines, i've talked to a few democrats who said there are reservations from those who may come out and support him. he was on "meet the press" and asked by chuck todd if he considers himself a capitalist, he said, no, i'm a democratic socialist. and the idea of carrying that kind of message potentially into a general election. trying to convince the majority of the country to get behind somebody like that. is it possible for someone to say, i'm not a capitalist, and get elected president? >> yeah, it is. i think what he said was. and inthe context of the question and response have to be put in perspective. the fact that now the issue of economic inequality the issue of wage festivity, concentration, power and wealth in the hands of very, very few people and very

few people, don't care. they don't know if they'll be able the to -- if kids will go to college, they'll be able to make their payments. that is the thread that's running through the economic issue in this country and people have to address it. >> congressman raul grijalva from arizona, one of bernie sanders two congressional supporter so far as. appreciate it. >> thank, steve, appreciate it. and joe biden won't be at tonight's debate, but questions about his candidacy or potential candidacy are still swirling. will he or won't he make a late run for the white house? when you're not confident your company's data is secure, the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business.

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x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. all right. we'll check back in with senator rand paul out in iowa. again, paul doing something that's never been done before. he is live streaming his entire day on the campaign trail. trying to take viewers behind the scenes during his run for the presidency. also, another fun moment from that live stream today, paul answering the question, why are you doing the live stream in the first place? >> i wish i knew. i wish i knew why i was live streaming. i've been saying, i don't want to do this. i don't want to do this. and all of a sudden i'm doing this. we want to get our message out to people who may not watch the evening news anymore. you get into a different venue. by live streaming it, you get to meet people. and if the politics don't work out, i might do a reality tv show.

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as the five democratic candidates prepare to take the stage for tonight's debate, there's one person getting at of attention, who is going to be nowhere near those podiums. vice president joe biden left his home in delaware for the white house earlier today. still tight-lipped as ever about whether he'll run for president. biden plans to watch the debate from the naval observatory, but a podium at tonight's debate was put on standby, just in case he decided to declare his candidacy and hop on a flight some time before 9:00 tonight. and, the group that's urging biden to run released a new ad today, hoping to press him into making a decision to go. >> it's about your dignity. it's about respect. it's about your place in the community. it's about being able to look your child in the eye and say, honey, it's going to be okay, and mean it, and know it's true.

you never quit on america. and you deserve a president who will never quit on you! >> and joining me now is "the washington post" daniel dressner, who's writing today that he thinks joe biden is not running for president. so, let me ask you why. we've gotten so few signals out of his home in delaware, what makes you say it's not happening? >> i think there are three reasons. but the basic assumption, i'm making is that biden is only going to get in if he thinks he can win. and the odds of him win rg going dramatically. first of all, he's lost the so-called invisible primary. hillary clinton has locked up most of the primary establishment's primary endorsements. it would be hard for biden to catch up there at this point. the second reason is that the primary reason for biden actually considering this in the first place, for the last 2 1/2 months, was the notion that hillary clinton was imploding, that she was in real trouble. and for maybe part of august and

september, you could have made that case, plausibly. but now we're in a situation where, in fact, her poll numbers have rebounded and the sort of biggest problem she'd had to deal, the e-mail scandal, has in some ways been caught rised. and i think, finally, another sort of reason that biden was being urged to run was the mainstream media. that the media wanted biden to come into the race, because it automatically made it more interesting. but after 2 1/2 months, you're starting to see reports like you saw in "the new york times" today, about how biden really needs to make up his mind. and you're starting to see references to mario cuomo from 1991. and one of the major rules of presidential politics is never get compared to mario cuomo if you're going to decide to run for office. >> hamlet on the hudson. mario cuomo took it all the way to the filing deadline, they had the airplane idling on the tarmac and he never got up there. but a cynic could make the case

thati beden is waiting for hillary to implode. but right now he outperforms her in head-to-head matchups against the republicans, in some cases by substantial margins. you still look at those poll numbers and ask, do you have a favorable or unfavorable view of her? do you think she's honest and trustworthy? those numbers are poisonous. what happens if in this debate, she has one of those moments like she had from '07. do you think suddenly we're talking about tomorrow about, hey, there is an opening? >> i don't doubt that you would be talking tomorrow about maybe biden having an opening. but there's two things to consider here. the first is that joe biden has had two cracks at this apple already. and it's not like he's necessarily a better campaigner than hillary clinton. in fact, if memory serves in 2008, he made a gaffe the very first day, the day he announced. the likelihood of him doing that would be pretty high. the second thing is, if you look at the sort of head-to-head national polls, i think biden

has the advantage that clinton had a year ago, which is, she's not in the race. as a result, everyone sort of looking at him as a respected vice president. the moment he becomes a candidate or politician, hillary clinton is going to hit him, the republicans are going to start hitting him. those favorability numbers are going to go down. >> the grass have always greener on the other side. daniel dressner, thank you for joining us. appreciate that. and thanks for watching msnbc live. i'm steve kornacki. "hardball" starts right now. tonight, big casino. it's no honeymoon in vegas. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington -- actually, i'm in the spin room, that's what they call it out here, at the wynn hotel in las vegas, the site of the first democratic debate. believe it or not, the first one. this is the hot ticket on the vegas strip