this morning, my question, mr. vice president, what's up? plus, another video of an unarmed teen shot dead by police. and tracey morgan's triumphant return to "saturday night live." first, the politics behind the policing of a pumpkin patch. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. and if you haven't done it yet, you have just 13 days left to get your pumpkin. with halloween just around the corner it's something of a tradition, quite frankly an

adorable one, parents taking their little ones out to big fields of pumpkins and letting the kids pick out just the right one. it's also a pretty cost-friendly way to spend an afternoon. at elf steed farms in chester, new jersey a pick your own pumpkin cost just 65 cents a pound. even if your kid picks out a five-pound pumpkin you are looking at $3:for an hour's worth of entertainment. in errata pumpkins, you can get a pumpkin for $1. now in virginia at cox farms in centerville you can get a nice soon to be jacko lantern for 69 cents a pound. know this. if you decide to go get your pumpkin at cox farms in centerville some local police might take exception, specifically brad carrothers. the washington post reported this week that the president of the order of police lodge 77 said he would not patronize

centerville's dock farms and urged others do the same in a lengthy message posted on the union's facebook page on tuesday. if you are wondering what could possibly have led to a feud between the police and the pumpkin patch, well, the answer might surprise you. black lives matter. take a look at this screen grab from carrothers' facebook i think pa. he posted, quote, i holy hope you will join me and my police family and make a choice to go somewhere else to enjoy your family front this fall where you are not be confronted by baseless criticism and judgment. in that window there, that's a sign that soes black lives matter. that is near the farm. it is a private resident that belongs to one of the farm's five owners. that's it. that was enough for the head of the police union to call for a boycott of the pumpkin farm.

there is a sign in the window which reads black live as matter. mr. carrothers took his post down after dozens responded that was not polite. we called and he responded to us, the reason why i responded to sit not because of what black live' matter originated from. the original goals were pro police. unfortunately, the movement of black live's matter has been hijacked by people who have an antipolice agenda. they call for violence against police officers and their family. and the chants and demonstrations are very antipolice. their original ideas are whole heartedly accepted. mr. carrothers assures us that he too believes black lives matter. but he also believes that black lives matter as a movement has been hijacked by antipolice activists prepared to enact violence against the law enforcement community. the sign as he sees it is neither simply a statement of

fact that black lives do matter nor is it a gesture of support for democratic accountability and transparency in policing. for mr. carrothers, the sign is a act of aggression, a threat. and what police officers find threatening matters a lot. because the perception of threat is a critical legal ingredient for determining if an officer's use of force is justified. or, as vox explained back in april, there are plenty of guidelines for use of force by police. but it too often boils down to what the officer believed when the force was used regardless of how much of a threat actually existed. so what started out as a seemingly inconsequential story about a pumpkin patch is sequential, indeed. now we know there are ifrs officers who believe black live's matter is inherently threatening. and the consequences of that belief may prove to be very real. which is also why the response

of the pumpkin patch owners is so important. on thursday, the cox family released a -- may i say co comprehensive statement that reads in part, as a family we believe that black lives matter and neither our sign nor the black lives matter movement says that only black lives matter or that black lives matter more than anyone else. and the sign certainly doesn't say anything about police officers valuing black lives and respecting the lives and work and police officers are not mutually exexclusive. then they go on to right, about 15 years ago, some consumers boycotted our farm because we flew rainbow flags and they accused us 6 supporting the guy

agenda. our business is still growing and our rainbows are still flying. joining me, noel kazen bib, a professor at the university of connecticut and author of breaking the chains of raeshlly accommodative language. monica dennis, with black life's married new york city. and a professor of criminal justice at jon jay college and a retired degt for new york plenty. thank you for being here. let me start with you. there just is no evidence that the black lives matter movement has endangered police officers at least in terms of leading directly to harm done to these officers. in fact, 2015 is on track to be the safest year since 2013, which had been the safest year in a while. so why do you think this perception is so powerful right now? >> i think this perception is just part of a long historical

frame about who is threatening, who is violent, who is criminal, right? so since the inception of this country that's always been placed on black bodies. to have police responding to communities that say we actually mart and we are resisting police violence is generating cognitive dissonance in police forces around the country. i think it's very interesting that the president of the police union does not boycott as an individual citizen but use his leverage and positional authority as part of the police union to say this is what we should be boycotting. it's intimidation, it's control of a farm that's actually very supportive of police. there is a long history of this farm. so if you are going to do this to someone that's very supportive of police forces i'm curious to see what would happen if you are talking about regular citizens who dissent. >> it is a nice point that every individual, every individual in a society of consumption can make a choice to consume or not consume, whatever is appropriate relative to their own world view. but it is something when you

call on it from a particular perspective. john, look, we started with a pumpkin patch story, which in certain ways is ridiculous. is it ridiculous when mr. carrothers said to us basically it feels like a threat. because this question of feeling threatened is everything when it comes to police aggression. >> well, i think what you are going to have here is is a political issue that boils down to the police chief and some of the elected officials coming to bat for the form and for policing in general. what has happened is that this black lives movement -- there is a white s.w.a.t. of law enforcement that believes it has come out of or is an outgrowth of that hands up don't shoot movement which was debunked by a lot of investigations that found that either witnesses lied or factual statements were made and then recanted. then as that movement grew and the outgrowth was black lived matter well now that gets branded with hands up don't

shoot. that was false and now this is -- >> i want to pause on the idea this was false. on the one hand i agree, clearly the doj report suggested mr. brown did not have his hands up at the moment of of the sugele but i have to say that's not really what the movement was based on or required. but the movement was also about the fact he was unarm. the movement was in part about the fact that that young man was left laying in the street for those hours. and it's also about the fact that the doj report shows patterns and practices of the police department that go far beyond that one interaction. ive to say i don't experience the ferguson movement as false. >> i think there is a wide s.w.a.t. of the law enforcement community that does. i think they feel backed by the doj report and the local prosecutors support their feeling. >> that -- that gap in perception strikes me as -- i mean, like i don't even really quite know how to ask the

question at this point. >> well, john said what's going on is political. you are exactly right. but what goes on with the fact that african-american are being killed by the police and by vigilante groups and members with impunity is what is ultimately political. and what's going to stop these crazy, insane killings is a change in power relations such that the police know that they cannot kill african-americans and get away with it. they don't kill arrogant, wealthy european americans. >> actually, in fact, they do. we're going to talk about that in a minute. >> to any extent that they kill -- i'm talking about the prevalence of these killings. i'm talking about how regular these killings are. i'm not talking about an isolating killing that makes the news because it is so isolated

and special. i'm talking about a long pattern of killing and abuse that goes back to the racial control of african americans back to slave controls. >> i recognize that. but at the same time it is clearly not the movement in the united states that police officers kill with impunity. there is a we we very well established procedural due process that takes place. and every time a police officer uses deadly force. and to say that we don't care for the outcome is not suitable because justice guarantees no outcome. it guarantees a process. we call that due process and we let it play itself out. i know we don't like the outcome sometimes. >> let me get vicky in on that one. >> we are talking about pressure and politics. i want to talk about the on theics of it. we have a crisis between our communities of color and our police departments. and we are starting to see a

spiraling of a vicious cycle. what we need to do is stop this vicious cycle. part of that is something as simple as public relations where if the police department or a police representative does not go out and criticize a pumpkin patch for advocating black lives matter that would help the relationship on the ground when the police officer is out there in the community. so even just what can be done in term of public relations, in terms of community engoijment can affect what ultimately hapts happens on the streets late at not. >> i'm going to put the cox family in charge of it. i have got to read one thing of them. as a family we are antiracist and pro justice. we recognize that systemic racism is real. we embrace our role as allies working to dismantle it. at any time we mainstream presidential candidates who openly recognize black lives matter as a legitimate voice of racial in this country. it was shocking for us to see

the have it reyoel expressed about the sign in our family. is this some radical saying of cox farm? no. if you read anything from the actual organization, neither is black lives matter. go get your pumpkins at cox farms, my friend. more when we come back. ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox.

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>> if you lock at the black lives matter movement, one of the most disturbing things is more than one of their protests have embraced rabid rhetoric rabid antipolice language, literally celebrating the murder of police officers. >> that was ted cruz earlier this week. here's what he want to

acknowledge. there is this kind of few seconds moment in one black lives matter protest that got caught on tape. maybe we will listen to that because it will give us a sense. this was at the minute machine state fair. >> pigs in a blanket, fry them like bay son. >> pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. >> you are looking at a national movement operating all these different levels. that then becomes the video that says this is a violent antipolice movement. i'm going to say when it comes to rabid movement i'm going to go with the gop primary over black lives matter as a consistent thing. >> a high five on that, for sure. i think it's interesting the focusing on anybody that chooses to say we want to stay alive. we expect police departments across the country to protect us, to maintain our society of. and when they do not, we will

resist. so whether it's rhetoric that makes people feel uncomfortable or people standing up and saying the truth of what it is, there is no need to apologize for what it is that black lives matter is putting forth the right to be safe and to live. >> i want to push more on the idea of threat. we saw this week really tough video of a young man in d.c., jason goldsby who had just gone in to take money out of his -- out of the atm, and he holds the door open for a white couple with their stroller and then the police are called in. and then the video of the arrest is pretty tough to watch. and, again, that idea that just a young man just going to get cash out is perceived as a threat. >> yes, i think that's really when you look at a lot of these issues you have to go back to this whole notion of a threat. we were talking about police perceiving a threat before, and

i think that the police perceived this threat because people are telling them they cannot continue to do business as usual. and that is threatening to them. and one of the things that we really need to understand when we talk about what's happening with african-americans, that it's happening with impunity. police are doing it so frequently because there are no consequences. again, if there were consequence, they would stop. to put this in a larger historical context, this notion of african-americans as threatening goes way back through african-american history. >> uh-huh. >> after african-americans were -- every time it seems that african-americans have made some progress, it has been perceived as being a threat. after the end of slavery, then there was lynching, and then there was share cropping, and a

whole host of white racial backlash. that's what we're experience against if black lives matter right now, white backlash. >> i want to bring you in on this idea of threat and how it ends up playing out in our system. >> politically we have seen the gop very much characterize the black lives matter as antipolice. but the irony here is that communities of color, african-american communities, latino communities want police protection. they desperately want police to come into their neighborhoods because who are the folks that are most likely to suffer a crime? people of color. so they create this false dichotomy in terms of political rhetoric where in fact if you listen clearly, it's black lives matter, we need your cooperation, we need your broke. we are not antipolice. >> i'd have to stay that -- >> keep. that i want to do a piece of some better news. we want to update our audience

on this morning, something we have reported on before. 2015 has been a year for remarkable progress for the transgender community. the white house hired its first openly transstaffer. and other progress has been made in popular culture helping to bring issues facing trans gender communities into the mainstream. but for the transgender community 2015 has also been a year of loss. more specifically, this year has been one of historic rate of murder of transpeople. in the past on this program, we brought you the names and stories of transgender women, most of them women of color, already killed this year. and now we're going to have to pause to add another name. and to remember zella ziona. there are reports 21-year-old zella was shot in washington, d.c. it's report she is the 21st confirmed transgender or gender

nonconforming person killed this year. the highest number reported by the national coalition of programs which tracks lgbt murders. an arrest has been made in the case, is charged with first-degree murder and being held without bond. on friday evening friends and family gathered at the spot where she was killed. she was described as an inspiration who helped others understand their identity. up next, 17 years old, unarmed stopped and shot by police seven times. ard from cap. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line.

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were turned on. video recorded by the body cam shows a roughly four-minute exchange in which frost makes several commands for license, registration and insurance, which gilford declines to produce. this is what happened next. >> now, out of the car. out of the car, you are going to get tazed. out of the car or you are going to get tazed. everything is being recorded, sir, and i've got no problem with that. bet out of the car. get down on the grounds, now. down on the ground, now? down on the ground! right here, facing me. down on the ground now. >> what do you mean? >> get out on your belly, right now. get your fanny down and put your arms out to your side, now. >> then sergeant frost attempts to arrest gilford. when he resists a scuffle ensuesed and the officer discharges his taser at the teen. what happened next is not visible on the body cam video

but only seconds later the recording captured the sound of seven gunshots, all of which struck gilford. he died at the scene n. june, the prosecutor of the county declined to bring charges against the sergeant after reviewing the evidence tlug a three month independent investigation by the state police in determined that the sergeant used his firearm within the defense of the law. about the decision to bring the lawsuit, gilford's parent says quote we had always had respect for law enforcement, but we must say the belief has been shaken to the core by the reaction of frost and the decision not to hold him accountable. the criminal justice system forces us to seek other avenues for some kind of justice for devin. that for me, john, is really like -- you said the process matters and the fact that there were not even charges here is exactly the kind of process that

feels like there is not a process here. >> that's an outcome. charges are an outcome. it does not mean the police department wasn't held account. accountability means subjecting yourself accountable to the process to publicly account for your behavior and the law says that officers are allowed to use force. >> he shot the kid seven times that he knew was unarmed. >> from what i read the physical evidence bear witness to the fact that the officer believes his life was in jebdy. photographs, other evidence. >> then we get to the crux of it in part. i mean, it's interesting you said earlier, they don't shoot white kids. but this video in fact helps to remind us that they do. in fact a new new york times piece out this morning suggests that individual bias might be part of it. you about it's literally just about the number of repeated interactions. part of the reason you have more

people of color is because the police interact with us more. >> absolutely. so one, the process is failing. right? that's just what it is. we know that to be true. to say that criminal justice officers are actually being subjected -- or subjecting themselves to a measure of accountability does not actually prove outright. and that there is no transparent cease around what those measures of accountability are. we have to ask ourselves why do we need body cameras to begin with? because we know something unlawful and desperate and ultimately end in death is going on. that's the first question. and then to be able to talk about, to make those connections to implicit bias that you are talking about. that bias is hard wired into our brains. often it is in direct contra dictions to the efforts we believe true and dear. i can say as a police officer i believe in policing of communities, and then in

actuality kill in biased numbers. >> i hear you, and i hear you on bias. and i mean clearly that is a critical agency spektd of this. i guess part of it for me is always -- because i want to talk about structures and systems i also want to think about the structures and systems faces police officers. i want to take a moment to read, the county sheriff did release a statement saying the tragedy for everyone involved, certainly for the family and the sheriff's office and the community. the last thing sergeant frost or any officer wants to do is be put into a position where he is compelled the autos his firearm. the decision will be challenged and skrout niesed by many sources. i have got to say you were talking about sort of the language that can be used to build trust. and like when there is a dead child, saying that it is a tragedy for everybody doesn't really go very far on that at

all. >> there is a hunger for transparency is what we want. yes, the body cameras are a good first step. sometimes we think they are a panacea. all right, we have body cameras and things are going to be okay. that's just the very beginning. the next stage is that process. and our law enforcement should be held accountable. we are not saying that should be held accountable more so than others. but they should be held accountable. we want to see the process play out in public. >> i'm not even quichbsed the body cameras are a good idea. >> i agree. >> the public is the grand jury. >> how is the grand jury a public process? >> all members of the community come together to listen to the circumstantial evidence are selected impartially and they are seated. >> oh -- >> i have got say. so what i will say -- >> that's part of the accountability. >> potentially what is even a greater danger, john, if the language, if the discourse becomes as as long as there is

process, some version of community accountable, then what happens is people stop believing in law all together. they say thises if lawful, this is what constitutes justified, but my moral and ethical and human nature says nope that's wrong. then it suggests that the law -- it may in fact be lawful, but lawful may be different than what is right and wrong. >> that's a matter of blil debate and that is something that has to go back through public debate, through legislature and elected officials. >> our process. >> that's a challenge that rarely gets to the level of public debate, that the public has input to is actually happening in their communities. that's why you have movement across the united states saying we demand accountability we don't feel safe. >> more when we come back. up next, the family of tamir calls for justice. more when we come back. let me talk to you about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ]

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it is a senseless shooting of my son tamir rice, i have had many sleepless nights and days. almost a year now, no justice, no peace. i am very disappointed in the way timothy mcgwinnettly is handling this case. i would like for him to step down and allow an independent prosecutor to take over tamir rice case. >> that was the mother of the boy whose 12-year-old son was playing with a pellet gun when he was fatally shot by police last november. on friday the family sent a letter to the prosecutor tim mcginty criticizing his handling of the case. the attorneys told mcginty in the letter it appears that the grand jury presentation will be nothing short of a charade aimed

at whitewashing this police killing of a 12-year-old child. according to the tis patch, mcginty and his spokesman says they welcome scrutinization of the reports. i mean, i remember nick christophe saying on the twit hear the activists should focus less on michael brown and more on tamir rice. i year later, i foal like, what's good, mr. christophe, becauset seems to get justice on any of it. >> i think what is so important here, we see the face of a child and the hope is that this innocence would allow not just the black community but the nonblack community to come together and rally on this. but we keep seeing roadblocks. based on this, we need to pick up on a point made earlier. we need to change the laws, what about the process? i think this needs to be long-term strategy where we start lobbying our different state law makers to change the law so that when something is

brought in court cases there is more transparency. so i think maybe the target needs to be changed just from, say, the court system, and move it on up to the state legislature. >> and also say as much as i'm not necessarily a fan of body cameras, i am a fan of data collection. and part of the problem -- you know, the assertions we are making about use of force we are making because we think that's what true but a we are not completely sure because of lack of data. but the new system out of the doj is going to use this open source methodology and local news reports and presumably we are going to ends up with better data. but apparently because we don't know what the use of force numbers are is stunning in a democracy. >> i think as african-americans we know what the numbers are because we have we experience the numbers and we have been experiencing these numbers for centuries now. and there has been a lot of talk about process. people care that the process not only exists but that the process is fair. if you look at a city like new

york city, for example, we see that almost -- no matter what the police do, they are not going to be indicted and thernl they are certainly not going to be convicted. and so people, there is an inherent understanding of these statistics, if you will. today we're talking about a young man who was killed in michigan. and we are talking about that. and it's -- that received a lot of attention because he is a european american, and because it's not just standard african-american who is being killed by the police. so it is a red herring in that sense. there are appearance, there are trends that we have to look at. and we have to d yes, john is correct. we have to ultimately stop this. it is a not a police problem it is a political problem. >> i think fell like that's what the black lives matter movement is attempting to deal with it as a political problem. there was a twitter about the

movement leaders meeting with bernie sanders, with hillary clinton. and in fact trying to make a difference in the political sphere. >> we think there are multiple roads to solving this problem, right? the problem is not just criminal justice. it's what are the conditions compounded generation after generation that is that are producing the same desperate outcomes in black communities? some are choosing to meet with political activists many are organizing community aid because we cannot help black communities if we are not talking about black communities. there there are lots of people organizing. this is not new. it's part of a continuum. we are trying to link the data with actual people's stories. it is a shame that we have to have data to prove why we want to keep living. coming up, still the latest on vice president joe biden's decision to run in 2016. up next my letter of the week. w. jublia is a prescription medicine

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photograph of a beloved family member who has passed away on our mamgt our near our bedsides. maybe that picture captured something unique about the person we have lost, the brad smile or the grin, maybe the park at eyes. we know they are gone but the photo eases the pain by letting us escape to the moments we shared in life. but if we lost our gloved not after a long imness, but through gun violence, then the picture we choose to show the world is not just about personal memories. it's about the political stories their lives and deaths tell. after george zimmermann killed trayvon martin in 2012, there was significant public debate about which photos of trayvon media outlets should use when reporting the story. is he too young in this photo? is this one too iconic? is this one too prejudicial? the debate began again in 2014. this time we saw the death images first.

images of michael brown lying facedown in the street in ferguson went viral. even after the public had seen him in death there were questions about how to portray michael brown in life. should we see him at his best moments or at his less compelling? social media offered a painful response as young black people asked, quote, if they gunned me down, what picture would they use? if question itself and the discordant side by side images ofrds by african-americans acknowledged even inconsequential moments snapped in a fleeting moment can suddenly take on profound significance in the context of a violent death. there is one d.c. movement whose daughter was measured five years ago is on a crusaded that we pay attention to the photos in death be paid attention to as many as those in life.

i want you to know i have seen the picture of your daughter, her body rent, skin peeled back and the bone exposed. it made my stomach turn and made my knees weak and i closed my eyes and shook my head and looked away. you don't want me to look away. you want me to see what the bullets did to your little girl. when you were testifying about her death, you brought the smiling girl full of life hoping that lawmakers would see what was lost and move to action. but it's been more than five yea years. although i know you would rather remember your little girl full of life and love, now you bring the grizzly, brutal graphic

photo of brie decimated by the bullets of an ak-47 to the head. you have carried it with you to city council meetings and bring it to one on one sitdowns and you show it to reporters and you insist, i just can't see myself talking about gun violence without showing what gun violence is. this image is burned into my memory bank. it doesn't make sense for me to keep showing pictures of what she looked like before. so you take your place alongside mamie till when her 134-year-old son was dragged from his family's home during a visit to mississippi in 1955 and tortured and murdered and discarded like trash. miss tell held on open casket funeral and idea jet magazine to publish the photographs of his brutalized body. those photographs helped launch the civil rights movement. you hope the briz lee images of brie's death will do the same. maybe. maybe seeing the horror would be enough. but maybe not. when the parents of newton

connecticut opposed release of the sanny hook massacre images they openly worried about copycat killers and the traumatic affect the images could have on so many. and it is because of that concern about trauma that i'm not showing the photo of your daughter today. but you know what? it might just be because i lack the courage, the courage to see that picture broadcast here on this sunday morning in this place. maybe i'm failing to be brave. and of course, see, i can make that choice. i can look away. and you, miss jeffries, cannot. the reality of what that gun did to your girl is written in your soul. and maybe eventually we will all find the courage to face it, as you have been forced to do. sincerely, melissa. (vo) around age 7, the glucose metabolism in a dog's brain begins to change. (ray) i'd like to see her go back to her more you know

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serve months after michael brown's death in ferguson,

missouri, a justice department civil rights investigation concluded the ferguson police department and the court to system engaged in a pattern and practice of discrimination against african-americans. this included unconstitutional tops and overuse for tickets for minor violations increased court fees and jail time for those unable to pay. a new year long investigation by pro publica reveals another devastating source of financial hardship for black communities. debt quleks lawsuits. according to the report companies routinely use the courts to pursue millions of people even over hall small consumer debts w. the power, collectors can receive a chunk of a debtor's pay. it can be an auto loan or an oversue sewer bill. three cities, st. louis, chicago, and newark showed that even accounting for income, the rate of judgments was twice as high in mostly black

neighborhoods as it was in mostly white ones. one of the pro publica reporters who crunched the numbers and interviewed countless residents paul keel joins me now. talk to me. this felt like chapter two of the reporting that tanya hessy has done around segregation. and then this is the thing that racial segregation is allowed to be possible. >> the common factor there is we were looking for causes of this, why does this happen? when we were crunching the numbers we were adjusting for income. we were finding twice as many of these in black communities as opposed to white communication with the same income. which made us look at the racial wealth gap. even if you look at the same income level for whites and blacks you will find five times as much wealth in the white families as the black families. additionally, looking at networks. so that sort of compounds across the community. kahn go to your mom, or grand

mom because everyone has the same situation in terms of a lack of wealth. >> if you do go to them -- i think that was one of the things for me that was painful, was laura ingram, the manager of the foreclosure intervention department in st. louis saying i can't tell you the number of times i have had a 55 to 65-year-old african-american woman who can't make her mortgage payment because she has helped out other members of the family to the detriment of keeping herself afloat. you are taking out of nothingness if you go to them. >> whoufr has their own home they get drawn on, overdrawn, and then we take one example of a woman who is retired, she should be kind of living out her life. she owns her own home but has a daughter living in her home and she was trying to help other hut. ended up getting up sued over her sewer bill when she fell behind and then her bank catastrophe account was cleared out. situations like that. it exacerbates what is already a

stretched community. >> i think this is -- you know, i read reporting like this. and the level of injustice and the kind of long reaching effects. and i think but there is no salacious video. so as a result it can be harder to draw attention to this kind of injustice. >> absolutely. absolutely it's harder to draw attention. the impact is daily, chronic, acute. it's connected to again these patterns of policy that are supposed to be colorblind policy to collect debt or create home ownership. what's not being looked at are the predatory undertones as to what is happening. my question is to any business, any nonprofit creating some practice or policy are you doing an racial equity assessment? who is going to be disproportionately impacted as you put out a simple across the board debt collection policy? and the results in your policy shows it's disproportionately going to be black families. >> i was incredibly saddened reading is this report.

i wasn't surprised but i was saddened. and then i couldn't help but thinking about the predatory lending that's linked to it. i was reading and it got more depressed because you look across the country and the quick loans and the title loans are all set up to prey on people who have no safety net daus of these debt collections situations. i'm not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel. >> i want to quote again from the piece, 34 million, right, banks, hospitals, utilities, auto and high cost lenners have seized $34 million from residents of st. louis's mostly black neighborhoods between 2008 and 2012. i mean, that kind of transfer of wealth in this way just seems unjust in every possible way. >> immoral. >> another key thing is it's kind of -- so we use one example in story of a woman named corey winfield, who went to a used car, a subprime auto line in 2009.

ended up falling behind. because of the system they repossessed her car. she still had a debt left over after they took the car and auctioned it off. 30% interest because she had a high interest loan. they sued her and garnished her wages. it's still at a high interest rate. when the car was repossessed. she owed $5,000. has already had $85,000. >> so $10,000 for a car not in your possession. >> the hands of racism are always there. >> they are screaming at me. i have got to go. vicky, thank you to noel, to monica, dennis and to paul. still to come this morning. tracey morgan's tree up fant return to "saturday night live." the wide open gop race. and at the top of the hour, the most anticipated moment of 2015. more nerdland in a moment. nge o.

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harris-perry. this coming thursday former secretary of state hillary clinton will testify in front of the house select committee on benghazi. the committee is charged with equity having the terrorist attack on a u.s. compound in ban ghazi libya in september of 2012 in which four americans were killed including the u.s. ambassador to libya, chris stevens. clinton was secretary of state at the time. the committee's chairman, the republican congressman trey gowdy says there were three main questions he wants the panel to address. one, why did the u.s. have a presence in ban ghazi considering the security risk there is? two, what did the u.s. government do to protect american personnel in facilities during the attack? and three, what was the administration's explanation for how the attacks happened and how did it, quote, evolve? one of hillary's long time aides, humana abdeen, who served as her deputy chief of staff in the state department was questioned friday behind closed doors. >> i came here today to be as

helpful as i could be to the committee. i appreciated the time of both the members and the committee staff today. and i answered all their questions to the best of my ability. >> clinton has accused republicans of using the committee as a political weapon with the sole purpose of damaging her chances in the 2016 presidential race. in recent weeks the former secretary has seized on comments by house republican leader kevin mccarthy, who credited the ben gzy committee with bringing down clinton's poll numbers. >> they have admitted it is a political partisan committee for the sole purpose of going after me. not trying to make our diplomats who serve in dangerous areas safer. >> the republican's chair maintains he is focused on a thorough accounting of what happened in benghazi into we are going to have a professional fact centric firm but fair conversation with the person who

happened be the the secretary of state at all relevant times before, during and after benghazi. so you have to talk to secretary clinton, there is no way to have a credible investigation without doing so. >> thursday will not be the first time clinton testifies on benghazi. seven other congressional committees have vetted the attacks and concluded that the state department could have done more to respond to security and protect the benghazi compounds. at the table this hour with me, victoria defrancesca, director of communications for latino decisions. basel smigel, executive director of the new york state democratic party. sabrina sadiky, and susan del percentio. nice to have you here. susan, let me start with you. >> sure. >> is this a committee for the purpose of investigating benghazi or is this a political matter? >> well, i think what kevin mccarthy said certainly hurt the credibility of the committee. so it almost doesn't matter

going in right now. the perception is that it was created -- it's given hillary clinton great advantage going into this. and she has use it quite well. what she does when she testifies will be interesting. i expect that she will actually do quite rel. she has to watch her temperament. if i were her i'd stick to as many of the facts and not play the political card until afterwards. don't play the political card in the hearing but afterwards if she chooses to talk to the press then she can play it. it's been leading up to that and that's what she should do. the republicans on the other hand have to make sure they have a very pointed specific questions to offer her. they have to now be more conscientious than ever not to seem partisan. >> i want to listen to two different sort of takes out of the republicans in the house. -- skooim, in the senate. one is a house member, representative richard hannah on wednesday.

and then we'll listen actually after that to the chair of the committee himself, senator -- excuse me, represent gowdy talking about the earlier remarks. >> sometimes the biggest sin you can commit in d.c. is to tell the truth. >> yeah. yeah. >> you know? and i -- this may not be politically correct, but i think there is a big part this investigation that was designed to go after people. an individual, hillary clinton. >> thursday is about the three questions in benghazi, what happened before, during and after. and frankly, in secretary clinton's defense she is going to have a lot more information about the before than she is the during and the after. so i get that there is a presidential campaign going on. i have told my own republican colleagues and friends, shut up talking about things that you don't know anything about. and unless you are on the committee, you have no idea what we've done, what we've done it,

and what new facts we have found. >> the that's chairman gowdy on "face the nation" this morning. >> to go back to what susan said earlier, i think they need to figure out what the purpose this hearing. seven or eight committee hearings. this totals $4.7 million, more expensive than to figure out what happened after katrina. >> a katrina was on tape. i don't see what is new. and whatever kofg could have been brought out of this hearing that would be considered legitimate has been delegitimatized because of the politics. >> to jump in. the last hearing is when we found out about her private e-mail account. things do happen during these hearings. >> yes. >> and the public really does separate what happened in benghazi and her e-mail account issue. but that did come out of the last hearing.

so when trey gowdy says there may be more information to come that they are not aware of. >> this to me seems so important. and part of it goes your recall quer advice, which is the more that she sticks to it straight, even if it goes to the politics on the back end -- so it does seem to me there is always like risk, right? you as a candidate, even if you are talking about your time as secretary of state, you as a candidate sitting in front of that committee, only downside as far as i can see. >> right. i think she is going to take this very seriously. her campaign has even said after that debate moment where bernie sanders said the american public is sick and tired of hearing about your e-mails and that a got a rise. especially among the democrats who do not view the e-mails and ben gzy the same way that republicans do. but she is going to go and testify and take this moment seriously. the republicans have this self-inflicted wound where going into this moment you didn't have

just some of the republican law makers come out and say confirm washington's worst kept secretary, also have an investigator what was a republican on that committee accused the committee of firing him for not focusing his investigation on hillary clinton had. that's something that got a lot of traction within the media, too. there are a number of voices saying this has been about hillary clinton. we haven't produced the smoking gun that republicans seem to think there is with respect to aga benghazi. >> it feels to me like it strikes a particularly discordant ant optic in part when the house republicans are unable to kind of solidify their own leadership. and this is what i think was driving me nuts, this idea that they are holding up many obama era or obama administration nominations for these posts.

everything from these ambassadors to other nominations are languishing in committee. you have time for eight investigations but no time to assign committee. >> we are seeing other things held up. but in talking about benghazi, i agree with susan, it will more likely than not help seth clinton. she is going to be able to showcase her strength and her he can with a him inity. remember, she is coming into this limping because of the e-mail scandal that was brought up through benghazi. people are beginning to get disenchanted with clinton more and more. she may be able to make up for lost groub showing steng with the committee. but i think irreparable damage has been done because of the e-mails that were brought forward. >> actually i would disagree with that. i think she is coming off a tremendous month. i think bernie sanders helped a lot to bet everybody on the same page and say these e-mails don't matter. there is no smoking gun with respect to these e-mails. >> but the truth -- is it

damaged the trust. >> on top of that, if you look at the poll, she has gone up in new hampshire compared the bernie sanders. she seemed the most conversant on wide range of policy issues and she had the opportunity to come across that way given the fact she has previously only had to talk about her e-mails. >> there are two separate questions here. obviously she is in a primary right now. but i have got to say that hillary clinton winning the democratic peopleary for 2016 has got to be the least surprising thing to happen -- like. she wips, that will not be that surprising. her losing would be much more shocking. but then the question is whether or not all this maintains a kind of drip drip that again has that effect -- >> what you are doing to see, hillary clinton, let's give her the benefit of the doubt she does well at the hearing. she is going to have october be 30 great dayser toer had. then guess what is going to happen? 31st, 4,000 new e-mails are

going to come out. that's going to reset her backwards. not only, that when you talk about what comes out of the hearing, what i'm curious about is we've seen that there is issues about security. we know the ambassador asked for more securitile we know that's the focus of it. as a result of learning about her e-mail account and having these e-mail releases we have also known she has had cia agent was outed by said bloomenthal on her e-mail. that was redacted. the question is, are there any other security issues that can come out this hearing? if that comes out going into the next bank of e-mails that's going to be damaging. >> october was a good month. november, maybe not. up next, there is one person watching it, the person we are all watching, the vice president. the latest signs of whether or not there is going to be a decision from vice president joe biden, next. ♪

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>> will he or wouldn't he? the speculation continues as vice president joe biden appeared last night right here in new york, just down the street to accept a human rights award from the greek orthodox church. biden spoke about his catholic faith, about husband late son beau, but did is not mention anything about a possible run for the presidency. but his audience did, chantsing run, joe, run, as he left the stage. >> run, joe, run! >> the vice president is by all accounts still weighing his options. maybe lacing up those shoes for the run. on friday he spoke with the leader of the international association of firefighters a. source tells nbc news that biden told the union president he is seriously considering a run and was trying to gauge whether he would have the union's support. i want to bring in now nbc news

capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell outside the vice president's residence in wilmington, delaware. so, what do you know? >> good morning, melissa. this is informally biden watch here where we are quite literally at kind the doorstep of his personal residence here in wilmington. a quiet sunday morning, i can report for you. we have not seen vice president biden today. we don't have anything that we've been told to look for in terms of any public events. we're here because everyone is wondering, will he or won't he? and so we're trying to gauge if the vice president will give any clues or will there be visitors here who might suggest one way or another what his thinking is. but all quiet right now. as you pointed out, the conversations that he has been having suggest there is a seriousness to the way he is looking at this. we don't know timing. but timing does matter because there will be deadlines for filing to be a candidate in certain states. there was discussion of whether it would have been good for hmm

or not to be in the debate that has already happened. so there is a sense of pressure building. this weekend, it has been in many ways a typical one for the vice president. he spent part of saturday attending sporting activities for his gran children here in wilmington. you pointed out he went to an event in new york city last night. and those who are watching his public statements at those kinds of events are looking for evidence of might he run? he seems weaves so many of the themes into his public remarks that might be things that would be something you would hear from joe biden as a candidate. but you really have to be looking hard for that. so at this point, he is one of the most captivating figures in the race because we don't know if he will get in. but we are here standing by, ready to go. and if the vice president wants to come out and get the morning paper, we'll be here ready to greet him. >> scream, are you going to run, joe? are you going to run? >> exactly. >> thank you to nbc's kelly o'donnell in wilmington, delaware. so look, i mean there is a point

at which we are staking out the vice president's house that we are going to have to stop doing that. he is going to have to tell us or not, right? >> he will. and you know, we've had our theories on when that would actually happen. i always thought he could go late into the fall if he wanted to. and there clearly seems to be some interest. he would be a fwa candidate if he runs. i'm a sure of that. but the question is again given where all the candidates are right now. given the pieces of the electorate they have staked out where does he fit in? i'm not sure. >> let me ask a more political human and less like strategic question. because nobody can tell you if you are going to win the presidency, right? or even the nomination. but isn't it just that this man has wanted for much of his adult life to be president. >> yep. >> he only has -- is even in this possibility because of the unique circumstance of being part of obama '08. how does he not?

just on the pure -- >> high school emotion when you are dealing with candidate -- here's the thing. let's not forget, the biden movement started because everyone thought that hillary clinton was going to tank against bernie sanders. and they didn't want a socialist being the top of the ticket. so everyone. >> that's a fair concern. >> right. it is a fair concern. >> strategically. >> but this is where it started from. what happened? everyone started to ask biden to run. is he interested? he would be great. we can't have bernie sanders. hillary clinton is going to fail. he started to feel the love. it was a movement of they love me, they really love me. so he started -- you know, the fact that they wanted him more than he was seeking it is an attractive proposition for anyone who ever wanted to be president. >> sure. >> now he's here and as of today hillary clinton has had a good debate performance. she has good polls out. right now you say oh, wow, they are not clamoring for me. what's going on? he is going to have to wait a little bit longer.

my guess is somewhere between after the e-mails come out on october 31st, after election day. and before the next debate on the 14th. it gives you a ten-day window right now. >> one of the things you have to look at when it comes around the momentum around drafting biden is with the american public. people are popular until they officially become the candidate. when hillary clinton left the office of secretary of state were-high sky high. obviously with the relentless scrutiny and when she jumped into the pool as candidate you have seen those numbers change. s that on both sides of the aisle. when it comes to joe biden, what are you bringing to the table? authenticity? because as far as his policy positions go there is not a great deal of distance between hillary clinton except that now she attached herself to the left on a couple of different issues. >> there were a i mean, it's

primary -- >> wait, wait. but still saying on the question of -- again, it still tells like two different things. one is a strategy of whether or not there is lane for him to win through. the other is -- i mean you are saying people will stop loving him as soon as he runs. of course but they will stop having any thoughts about the vice president if he chooses not to. if he steps outside and says to kelly or, watch, i'm not running, everyone packs up and goes home. then it really is over. there is some possibility for a continued love-hate if he are ups. >> i'm sorry. if you look at the debate tlk democratic debate, a lot of her tone and her style and her delivery and the fact that people just sort of -- a lot of folks that were looking at how she was going to perform loved her performance, a lot of that was directed at joe biden. look, this is what to expect. >> what you are going to get, joe. >> back in 2008 when both were in the race in a primary a lot had to do about authenticity and

style. it was change versus experience. you can see here not just aboutw this group of democrats but also relative to the republicans that experienced this. >> she also tipped her hand this week with the castro endorsement and then the language about castro might be my vp. you know, that has been fascinating fors tons of reasons but it wonders if vice president biden needs to hip his hand about what the whole detective would be like. especially if there was a powerful interesting woman on the ticket with him it might change things. >> that is one of the negatives that biden has. he is older. the democrat party needs to appeal to a more by verse constituency. and i think another negative is his closeness to the obama administration. >> i don't think that's a negative. >> getting into the general you have your independence, your fence sitters, and they say i

want something a little bit different. >> no. no. >> we've got to dig into the pool now victoria, i actually think that's his main strength. i actually think hillary has not repaired some of what she needs to repair for the enthusiasm gap to close in order to get that obama coalition after her. and actually biden can run on the obama coalition. >> she has a problem with the obama coalition but not with the independents. >> still the come, tracey morgan returns to "saturday night live." stay with us.

now a quick look at stories making head linls this morning. in florida, a police are searching for a shoot after a deadly shooting at a zombicon event. it happened late last night in fort myers when an unidentified shooter opened fire at an annual zombie themed street festival n. this witness video you can see crowds running from the gunfire. one person was killed.

and four others were hurt. those injured were taken to the hospital, and are hopefully expected to be okay. in the philippines a powerful typhoon slammed onto shore this morning with winds more than 100 miles per hour. the storm dumped heavy rain, toppled trees, and knocked out power. officials say thousands of villagers have quaekted the typhoon's path, especially in towns prone to flash floods and land slides. video posted to facebook shows a capsized boat off the philippin philippines. a passing boat tries to rescue survivors trapped on the overturned hull. a man in the video says his crew were able to rescue some of the survivors and get them to a hospital. back in the united states the governor of hawaii has declared a state of emergency to deal with the state's homelessness crisis. the declaration will allow the state to speed up the process of building a homeless shelter for families. it also provides $1.3 million to expand services to hemless

individuals and feels. some of the programs like housing first help people who struggle with entle illness and substance abuse who may not meet the traditional homeless shelter entrant requirements. with more than 7,000 people without a home in hawaii, a state that has the highest rate of homelessness per capita. up next, the republican candidate who is falling in polls, stumbling when he speaks and showing signs of money trouble. but he is still being treated like a front-runner.

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a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed. well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. there are 15 candidates vying for the republican nomination for president. it's no secret who is getting the most attention. but does trump lead the field and therefore get the most coverage or does he lead the field because he gets the most coverage? who knows. but we do know he does lead the field in both national and early

state polls. and lately, you don't have to look very far to fine a tv interview with dr. ben carson who is either closely trailing or even tying mr. trump in these recent pochls yes, trump and carson are getting a lot of attention. but one candidate is getting somewhat different attention n. a field of 15. only two really direct one to one sustained challenges have emerged. and jeb bush is part of both of them. jeb bush is at once at odds with donald trump. most recently for trump criticizing govern bush's brother, president george w. bush because the attacks on september 11th occurred during the bush presidency. and at the same time, jeb bush is at odds with fellow floridian senator marco rubio. both rivalry received substantial press attention this week from florida governor jeb bush at the crux of both stae . stories. it's a lot of attention for jeb. a lot. why? why in the world is jeb bush getting so much attention? i mean, why do these other

candidates seem to be behaving in a way that seem to suggest the race might come down to a one on one with mr. bush? look at where mr. bush is. he is a distant fourth nationally with just 8% support. in iowa, sixth place. new hampshire, fifth. in south carolina again, sixth place. mr. bush's seemingly formidable financial advantage is waning. this week, they are cutting salaries for staffers. then there is the nature of his campaigning. awkward, to put it nicely. look at the candidate in the past wednesday trying to recall the 2003 columbia space shuttle disaster. >> i'll never forget that when i went as governor of the state of florida on the tarmac to -- for a tribute to the astronauts that died in i think it was 2005,

wasn't it? no, the -- >> mr., president --? no. the other one. 2002. in the 2,000s, it was horrible. >> nope, nope, nope. that's a hot mess. right? i mean, it's just kind of uncomfortable. like you put that next to his multiple attempts to answer the question about going to war in iraq and sis stuff happens comment after the recent oregon shooting. and there is a lot that context can explain away in these moments but it's clear we are not seeing what is called a natural campaigner dust destined to emerge from the middle of a crowded pack. why the major contenter coverage? this tally shows diagnose different from the polls. mr. bush has the most house endorse meant and most senate endorsements. and endorsements in presidential

primaries predicts which candidates will succeed. you know who doesn't have a single endorsement from the house or the senate, the two gop front runners, donald trump and ben carson. what do you make of this? >> one of the fascinating things about jeb bush, he was supposed to be the republican equivalent to hillary clinton. he launched his exploratory committee early in september trying to clear the felt telegraphing to marco rubio he is in the race, he amassed this record fund-raising haul through his super pac that is going to be supporting him. and after all this, even though we are far out from the primaries he still doesn't have a sizable advantage. he is languishing in single dmintle a lot of the polls and hasn't been able to break through. in these head to head match ups what he learned over the summer you would think is nothing good comes from tangling with trump. marco rubio avoided headlines,

avoided auction talking about the contention issues that got walker into trouble. bush has struggled responding to donald trump. >> i hear you but i don't know if he learned it or not. because let me say that -- so mr. trump has been tweeting up a storm this morning and saying that jeb bush should stop trying to defend his brother focus on his own short coming comings and how to fix them. he also points that out in a marco rubo is hitting hem hard. a 1-2 type of thing. this morning on cnn, mr. bush decided to tangwell the trump. let's listen. >> look, my brother responded to a crisis, and he did it as you would hope a president would do. he united the country. he organized our country. and he kept us safe. there is no denying that. the great majority of americans believe. that i don't know why he is bringing this ep.

it doesn't show he is a serious person in terms of being the commander in chief and the architect of foreign policy. across the spectrum of foreign policy mr. trump talks about things as though he is still on the apprentice. >> was talking about jeb, where did your brother attack the middle east and instabilize the middle east. bad info, hilarious tweet. horrible way to run a campaign despite makes for interesting television. you made a point earlier that i think was interesting because when you talk about, you know, jeb bush on the right being sort of hillary clinton type candidate in terms of the establishment candidate, if you will, one of the things i think about is that, i think i think hillary comes from a place politically where she and the former president are still in many respects the standard bearers of the democratic party. whereas i don't think george w. bush was that at all.

when he became president he was elected on the sort of evangelical wave of support which jeb doesn't have and doesn't really exist anymore. i wonder if what happened in 2004 with the democrats happes d in 2016 with the republicans. you had howard dean and then voters in iowa went to john perry. >> one thing about jeb bush. if donald trump attacked his glasses, what he was wearing, he had to punch back to show his supporters and his donors that he would not just lay there and take it from donald trump. that's what you are seeing this fight about. i don't think it really mattered what it was. >> quep. >> it just happened to be on his brother. he would have tried to punch back -- he has an ad out now, a webb based ad that goes after him. it's kind of amusing. that's what jeb bush has to do. he also needs to clean up his act. he needs to become -- he is the establishment. he is supposed to be a

professional politician. he needs to start speaking like one. to start off with i'll never forget the day and not know the year is problematic. >> too much. quinn peaiac enacted a poll in late august asking for the words most associated with jeb bush. first one was bush. buy czar. family, performance, weak, and brother. he is still very connected with his brother in people's minds. let's watch that webb ad because it is kind of funny. ♪ >> who do you talk to for military advice right now. watch the shows. i really see a lot of great -- when you watch your show and all the other shows. >> he said publicly he watches cable news and that's one of the ways that he bones up on our national security. >> trump says he quote he always felt i was in the military

despite never serving in the military and draft departments in vietnam. >> what about knocking cable television? >> why are we saying you can't learn anything from cable sneflgs. >> right here we are seeing the wonkiness that jeb bush ran on. the last time he ran it was a pretea party world and he is having so much trouble trying to figure out how to be a republican in the tea party world. >> he ain't alone. i mean the entire republican establishment is trying to figure out to you to be republican. >> carson -- they don't even know how to run in a social media kind of world. i would argue that is more troubling to the campaign or more difficult for the campaign to overcome, they don't know how to respond quickly. i mean donald trump has -- what he has done on instagram has made every political consultant scratch their head. >> the thing about donald trump

versus jeb, one of the problems about him feeling the need to respond goes back to who is the standard. jeb bush needs to understand that he is not going to win over or be able to defeat donald trump at least among the current primary electorate other than to let him hit his ceiling and focus on his own priorities and be there and be ready to pick up. >> drafting. we call it drafting. you get behind the front runner and you go around the front. up next, why nobody knows anything, and everyone could be wrong. become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most.

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dr. scholl's dreamwalk express pedi with their airline credit card miles. sometimes those seats cost a ridiculous number of miles... or there's a fee to use them. i know. it's so frustrating. they'd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. and you would, too! why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. now, that's more like it. what's in your wallet? i think donald's campaign has been immensely beneficial for our campaign. and the reason is he's framed the central issue of this republican primary as who will stand up to washington? well, the natural follow up, if that's the question, is who actually has stood up to

washington? >> that was texas senator and presidential candidate ted cruz appearing on nbc's meet the press earlier this morning. quite frankly, there is somebody with a pretty clear strategy of drafgt right? you get right behind and ready to pop in front of trump at the right moment. here's the deal, i kept saying to everybody, man i am not looking forward to covering this election because it's going to be so boring. it is really not. like i actually really don't know exactly what's going to happen. it doesn't seem like anybody does. is this surprising? >> no. you know, it's still relatively speaking early. you know, when you get closer to december, january, when the polls start to tighten a little bit and people are actually looking at who they are going to vote for for because the first primaries are coming up, threaten there will be more truth to what we are seeing out there. one thing that is true, even though we started earlier before the election. what is true on the republican side you are seeing a lot of folks who do not like any of the

institutional candidates they have. on the democrat side i think we've got -- and i say this, substantive candidates. >> you are smile. >> the republicans don't want anyone from the establishment or anyone to do with government whereas the democrats are happy having someone with a government or establishment background. >> it depends on what establishment. because i mean what they do not want apparently is someone who likes the capitalist establishment. i want to play it because it's fun. let's listen to larry david on snl last night being bernie sanders. it was really the best thing ever. >> a what is your position on the big banks? eh. not the fan of the banks. they trample on the middle class. they control washington. and why do they chain all their pens tots desks? >> who is trying to steal a pen from a bank? makes no sense. that's why you've got break up the banks into little pieces. and then flush the pieces down

the toilet, so you can never put the banks back together. then you just make the bankers pay for college for everyone. and america's fixed. hey. >> that may be the best part this election so far. >> yeah. >> i think that's my favorite thing that we've seen. >> comparing the two sides, is differences among democrats are largely stylistic. of course there are some substantive. >> that's different. hillary clinton doesn't want to break up the bnks. >> she has tried to position herself -- the point i was going to make is when you are contrasting to republican, this outsider trend, the republicans have only themselves to blame because they created this themselves by positioning themselves in the 2014 mid terms further and further to the right. >> in '12 and in '10. >> rnc autopsy. here we are now their own base has rebelled against the establishment under the false sense they haven't blocked bom's

ayen de, haven't done enough to fight him when in fact that's all they have done. >> republicans basically promise the world. if you give us a house and a senate, we will take care of everything for you. that's what they campaigned on. especially in the kong when you look at the gerrymandered districts that are meant to only allow the most conservative and or the most liberal depending on the district. they have created this mess for themselves bass they knew they could never deliver. >> let me ask you the question, you couldn't overturn obama care. >> i have a question i'm not sure i know the answer to in terms of my own preferences in my head. is it as a matter of governance more frightening or worse to have a house, senate, and white house all controlled by the republican party? or to have a house and senate controlled by the republican party which looks like will happen again, but then the white house controlled by a democrat and then to go back to the stalemate? i don't mean so much from a it

logical perspective but from an actual governance. >> if you are republican, if we ends up having a donald trump as president and the house and senate as republican that would be sorrisome. but i think if you have an aebment republican in there, jeb bush or marco rubio, then i think that changes the equation. we haven't seen the establishment dump their heavy money. we haven't seen koch brothers orred aelson come out. it's too early. >> i think this republican longing for a ron reagan type candidate is not going to happen. >> because they don't remember what ronald reagan actually was. they don't remember the actual ronald reagan who could not get through the primaries now. >> they romanticized. no one liked ron reagan. if you think he was this great candidate he is not coming through that door. on top of that if you want a kong and a executive branch who is can't constantly people like

planned parenthood into a committee talking about defunding them -- >> the way it's set up right now, you have president obama whohim. the far left have a lot of issues and concerns with president obama. nan nancy pelosi is willing to work with republicans. she's willing to geet get -- you tend to see that happen. they think the word compromise is bad. if it's not 100% and it's 75 or 80, it's not worth doing. i can't take that back to my district. as long as that's our mentality -- >> the fact that right now there's no house majority leader and nobody even wants the job. thank you. up next, the triumphant return of tracy morgan.

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last night comedian tracy

morgan returned to "saturday night live" for the first time since he was critically injured in an accident last summer. he suffered a traumatic brain injury and was in a coma for eight days after the vehicle he was in was hit by a tractor trailer last june. during his months of recovery he underwent extensive therapy to enable him to speak. he wondered if he could ever be funny again. he seemed to answer that question off the bat as he took the stage to host "snl," the show where he first rose to stardom. >> i was in a car accident a year ago. it was awful but also showed me how much love and support i have from this world. i called loren michaels and i said, when i get back on my feet, i want to come home, and here i am.

people are wondering, can he speak? does he have 100% mental capacity? but the truth is, i never did. i might actually be a few points higher now. >> his co-stars from "30 rock" including alec baldwin and tina fey were on hand to help make his return to "snl" a success. he reprised some of his most popular "snl" characters. >> good evening. welcome to the safari planet. i'm brian fellows. we have two very special animal guests for you tonight. both are hairy and have teeth. >> at the end of the show, morgan was joined by his wife megan and their 2-year-old daughter. he gave the crew and audience a sincere thanks. >> my cast, my clue, lorne

michaels, i love you. thank you all for being here. >> we can expect to see much more from morgan. he has film projects and a new comedy series in the works. he is back and ready to make us laugh. thanks for watching. i'll see you next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. right now a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> i stayed up for that and went to bed with a smile on my face. new clues as to whether joe biden will join the race for president. we'll tell you about the phone call fueling more speculation. how city orchestras are joining up with video games for the next best thing in classical music. can going the extra mile to stay safe actually put you at risk? some answers on that. don't go anywhere. i'll be right back. more "stay" per roll.

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witt." gun fire breaks out during a crowded zombie festival. the war of words escalate between jeb bush and donald trump. are other candidates joining in the fight? >> i'm good. i'm hungry, but i'm good. and now if you don't mind, i'm going to dial it right up to a ten. >> that was priceless. larry david doing bernie sanders to a "t" on "snl." with a good day to all of you, fresh reactions from donald trump and jeb bush over trump's 9/11 comments. >> i don't know why he keeps bringing this up. it doesn't show he's a serious person as it relates to being commander in chief and being the architect of a foreign policy. across the spectrum of foreign policy, mr. trump talks about