of benghazi, what happened before, during and after. i get there's a presidential campaign on. i told my own republican colleagues and friends, shut up talking about things that you don't know anything about. >> all right, good morningment it's monday, october 19th. welcome to morning joe. with us on set we have the manager editor of bloomberg toll ticks, former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst, steve. and in washington g.o.p. pollster and author kristin. did you see larry david or was it bernie sanders? >> that's the question. you couldn't tell. >> it was fantastic. >> they should send larry david out to campaign for bernie sanders. >> when you're waiting for a 17-year-old to come home you actually watch saturday night live. we have it. can i show it? >> yeah. >> other than the debate. take a look.

>> how would you each differentiate yourself from the obama administration? >> i'm the only candidate up here whose not a billionaire. i don't have a super pack. i don't even have a battery pack. i carry my stuff around in my arm. i have one pair of underwear. that's it. some of these billionaire's, they got three, four pairs. i have to put my clothes on the radiator. >> do you have more than one pair of underwear? >> we had the ellen dancing thing. this is a country in crisis and the american people saw me dance, right and yes, that's

week i bought my second pair of underwear. that's a joke. please don't write it down. i have an ample supply of underwear. >> larry and bernie. i don't know whose who? by the way, sorry that i'm bringing this up. did you guys see michigan state that last play? what's wrong with you all? did you see that? do you know what i'm talking about. in the final second boom, his head which i was concerned about hit the floor and he literally won the game and you know what, i said to my kids. we were all watching it. i said i think he's hurt and they were like no, no he's fine. they're all celebrating. he dislocated his hip, broke his hip. this guy gets hurt. amazing. >> there was no time left.

like 20 seconds left. all michigan had to do was punt the ball. this is a biggest rivalry in not only the state of michigan but this year you got ohio state, michigan and michigan state and these were two teams fighting. at the very end, this takes a. >> this is where i say he's hurt. nobody's listening. >> this takes us back to 1978. i don't know if you remember. but the fumble where all the giants had to do was kneel only ball. they fumbled it and the eagles returned for a touchdown. it was an unbelievable ending. >> let's not end without a word about the mets. >> how about those mets? danielle murphy.

>> it's really something. the cubs are going back to wrigley trying to win the world series. the mets up two. did nothing in games and now go back to wrigley for the best of seven series. >> they have their own new mr. october. >> the mets are up two games. >> this has been quiet a fall. look what the royals are doing to the american league. the royals up 2-0. it is a year of underdogs. it's kind of nice. not that i don't respect the giants and the cardinals winning every year but it's kind of nice to have these new teams, underdogs out. there alabama crimson tide, i know that was in the center of everybody. >> playing texas. >> texas a & m. >> i'm working on it. >> what's going on with you? >> the michigan game, by the way, i'm just saying i was the only one in the room, everybody screaming, i said i think the boy is hurt and needs to go to

the hospital. everybody started laughing at me. >> your children may have been laughing at you for another reason. >> donald trump taking his feud with jeb bush to new heights and it all began with this interview. >> i think i'm much more competent than all of them when you talk about george bush. say what you want. the world trade center came down during his time. >> you can't blame george bush for that. >> blame him or don't blame him but the world trade center came down during his reign. >> i'm not a fan of george bush but blaming him for 9/11. >> that was his finest moment afterward. >> you can debate the wars and all that but i don't think. >> i think he said it happened on his watch.

anyhow, jeb bush responded on twitter. how pathetic for donald trump -- in an interview, trump said you have to look to the person at the top. do i blame george bush? i only say he was president at the time. you can say it stops here. we had very weak immigration laws. he also said the fbi, national security counsel and cia were not talking to each other and former cia director george tenant knew in advance there would be an attack. jeb bush had more to say yesterday. >> my brother responded to a crisis and did it as you hope a president would do. he united the country, organized the country and kept us safe. there's no denying that.

the great majority of americans believe that. i don't know why he keeps bringing this up. it doesn't show he's a serious person as being commander in chief. across the spectrum of foreign policy, he talks about things as though he's still on the apprentice. talking about syria saying isis should take out isad as it's some sort of board game. >> trump had the last comment saying jeb bush should focus on his shortcomings. >> i saw somebody saying it is a great strategy if you want 25% of the republican party. if you want 50% plus one you're not going to get there by attacking george w. bush.

>> trump doesn't play by conventional rules. he's going to criticize anybody. i think this will not effect trump in the short te. maybe long term it will if he gets to a position where he has to win 50% of the vote. is it smart for jeb bush to constantly be defending his brother and revive his campaign by attacking trump? i think the answer to that on both scores is no. >> kristin, is there a possibility here that this is one of those things where we are shocked, apalled, stunned and yet this is resinating out in america? are we the disconnected ones or is everybody shocked and apauled? >> nonthat everybody is shocked

and apauled. i don't know that this is resinating with them either. this is another thing that donald trump said that's going to make headlines for a day or two before he says the next thing that's going to get everybody outraged. i don't know if it hurts him. he has a ceiling of how high he can go in the republican party. they thought this was going to be over. i admit i was one of them and now he's hosting saturday night live on november 7th. he has more and more second and third and fourth and fifth acts to follow. i don't think most republicans know what to make of this. >> we started talking about this on thursday or friday. the republicans for the first

time saying off the record, this guy could win. the top people. alex is coming on who on this show said there was no way he would win the nomination who this weekend says he could win the nomination. i heard that from everybody. i don't hear anybody saying he can't win the nomination anymore. while this isn't a great move for trump politically, i think jeb bush is a bigger danger. don't defend your brother. his allies can defend them. i think the more jeb bush is in a battle protecting his brother's dignity or his brother's reputation, i think the worse it is for him in the long run. >> he's the bush in the fight.

>> we've all seen widespread poling and focus groups. people don't want another bush. >> even in the republican party. >> but in addition. jeb bush didn't get in the race to fight donald trump. that's all the stories about jeb bush are going to be. you got to run on what you got in the race to do. he didn't get in the race to fight donald trump. that wasn't the original plan. >> people say you got to respond and get back at it. how do you square the circle? >> you jab and move on. >> i love the apprentice. i would loved to have been on the apprentice but this isn't a reality show.

jab him, mock him, look at him and laugh at him like his brother would and go. but they don't do it. all of them are so froze. >> because these questions actually hurt. there's a tiny bit of something to all of them. >> what question hurt sns. >> this latest sort of rift between trump and jeb. especially trump's explanation of it is painful and i just wonder. >> that's simple. >> i understand you want him to blow it off but that hasn't been working. i wonder at some point not to trump but an interviewer if there's perhaps a more mul multilayered answer? >> you don't go multilayered. you don't get into it. all you need to say is donald trump, you know what, bin laden blames america for 9/11.

so if you want to do what osama bin laden, fantastic. you guys share it. the rest of americas know we were attacked by evil terrorist who hated us because of who we were because we support freedom and women's rights to go to college and get ahead and we support freedom of religion. we support freedom of no religion. but if you want to be like osama bin laden, that's great. i'm with the other 99% of americans. then move on. >> there's going to be other follow-up questions. others will say it as well. why we're engaged so horrif horrifically and horrendously in the middle east right now. >> you mean in iraq? >> yes. >> that's simple too. we shouldn't have gone into iraq. we made a mistake.

jeb bush can say i was with 75% of americans who believed hussein had weapons of mass destruction. >> there's lots learns from the bush administration. >> i think mika is saying jeb bush shouldn't get drawn into a lengthy discussion of what went right and what went wrong. >> that's not what she's saying. she's saying they have to have answe answers. >> he's running out of time to be a strong credible alternative to trump by establishing what he's for. >> and is he his own man or did his brother keep us safe and is

that the only words he's going to use? >> no one else is stepping up either. who can stop trump? jeb still has more assets than the other candidates to stop trump. >> he does but he's got to have real fact based, researched base opinions on what went wrong and saying that he kept us safe is terrific. >> no he doesn't, mika. you're wrong. my job, if i run for office one day is not to defend my brother or my sister. my job is to talk about my vision for my country. >> i'm not saying he should defend his brother. here's what didn't go right. here's why we've lost thousands of lives. >> at this point you should punch it out and get on and talk about elections are about the future. i want to talk about the future and how i'm going to solve problems here and how i'm going to do foreign policy and mark

said he's going to breakout. >> hooegs runni >> he's running out of time. >> do you think you can stop trump after he wins iowa and new hampshire? you're really taking a risk. >> let me tighten that up. if you think you can stop trump after he wins iowa, you're dreaming. if trump wins iowa, bar the door. at some point they're going to have to get together and figure out who stopped trump and whos him in iowa, new hampshire and who stops him in south carolina. >> president obama's most resent comments on hillary clinton's e-mail server angered federal veeth or thes looking into the matter. here's what the president said last week on 60 minutes. >> do you think it posed a national security problem? >> i don't think it posed a national security problem. >> do you agree with what they said about this is not that big a deal?

>> do you agree with that? >> i'm not going to comment on. >> do you think it's not that big of a deal? >> what i think is it is important for her to answer these questions to the satisfaction of the american public and they can make their own judgment. i can tell you this is not a situation in which america's national security was endangered. >> this administration has prosecuted people for having classified material on their private computers. >> these are all a matter of degree. we don't get an impression here there was purposely efforts to hide something or to score away information. >> you can't hear us talking during the sound bites but when that sound bite ran last week you said immediately the president is wrong. how can he say that? he can't say that. >> the federal investigation is still going on. the fbi doesn't even.

someone said the president knows more than we do. he doesn't know more than the fbi. he's still collecting the evidence. i could not believe that the president of the united states would actually step forward in the middle of an active fbi investigation and say something that would influence an fbi investigation. >> actually, that's cool, dan. play that. yeah, i want to see that. >> he knows more than all of us knows. he doesn't know what the fbi is going to be able to cover on the servers. an fbi investigation is active. they don't know what they're going to find. they may find nothing. let's hope for the sake of america's national security they find nothing. >> that was a high mark. >> now investigators and former officials are saying the president's conclusion is trying to influence is outcome of the

investigation. the new york times reports a comment sounded to agents as if the president has decided the answers to their questions and cleared anyone of wrong doing. a former assistant director of the fbi says objecting politics leaves a foul taste in the fbis mouth and makes them fear no matter what they find the justice department will take the president's signal and not bring a case. if you know my folks, you know they don't give a rip about politics. the white house tried to clarify last week but the president was only commenting on what has been released from the investigation so far. >> that is not true. not true at all. any administration that dragged their feet at the state department until recently, that's been dragging their feet in other parts. the president said there isn't, naggal security was not endangered and drew a conclusion, mark, i know it

shocked you when you said it as well, the fbi has come out very angry that the president is trying to fit the scales and the new york times article said it isn't the first time he's tried to influence an active on going investigation. i was shocked he said it. i think the white house needs to come out and make a stronger same. the president did not mean the say what he said. >> josh tried to clean it up. he shouldn't have said it. regardless of what he knows, there's always a question of do presidents have any oversite over justice department

investigations or justice department independent. whatever he knows about the status of the investigation, he shouldn't have said what he said. >> i think the conversation of that where the president is dismissive and draws a conclusion while the fbi agents are in an active investigation and then on top of that jake asks hillary clinton about the fbi investigation and she starts laughing, you see the beginning of the delegitimatizatiodelegit investigation that involves the national security. like i said last week, a hope none of america's national security secrets wiere revealed because of hillary clinton's paranoia. i hope that's the case. at the same time, a lot of americans and hopefully a lot of people in the media, this was very disturbing what the president did.

>> i completely agree. if you take a look at the clinton typical strategy for combatting something like this, it's one of two things. this isn't an issue. it's so far in the past it isn't a big deal. it's a lot harder to make the fbi look like they're not a legitimate critic of the clintons. that's a much easier target than the fbi. you're starting to see the strategy bleed on to a new target which is the one that's ultimately going to matter. >> they've mock and ridiculed the republicans that have helped them do that. what the president did is everybody bit as wreckless as what kevin mccarthy did. we're going to prejudge a

situation. they had no problem going after them at the very beginning. >> the candidate itself. i wonder if that was as kmeed rancic to her as the snap chat. >> i think they were overruled by our holder. >> they think that might happen with hillary clinton. >> i think the fbi is going to

be out to do its job. >> here's hillary clinton laughing it off. >> including the fbi officials looking at whether national security was compromised. >> still ahead on morning joe, the senate's number two democrat here on the set plush bob woodward joins us with his book and nicholas burns weighs in on russia latest prop dpaagations. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪

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the campaigns were shooting back and forth. >> let's try to take it step by step. let's look at the entirety of the campaign cycle and whose raised what. bush has raised the most amount of money. you can also see bush has raised a small amount of money and campaign or hard money. >> let me explain to people.

outside groups can put adds up on air and can't coordinate with a campaign. the money you need to keep your campaign doors open is green money. the orange money doesn't mean a thing if it has to do with paying staff or keeping a campaign running. >> fair enough. clinton had the opposite. she's raised $77 million of hard money and candidate money and had a difficulty raising outside money. cruz has raised a reasonable amount of outside money. sanders has no outside money to speak of. carson has no outside money to speak of. >> you look at number one and two, clinton and sanders and the fact that the republicans, a good bit, shows just how the

republican establishment still can't figure out whose going to win this thing. there's still a lot of money. >> there's a small point on the chart making is of the green bars and candidate money bush raised 6% of $200 or less. sanders raised 88% and carson 74% of donors of 200 or less. >> look at the candidates built to last. ben carson is going to be around for a while isn't he. he's built the last. >> he has small donors and bigger donors and going to have outside money. the outside money is only through the first half of the year basically. you don't have to disclose the outside money inflict the day before the iowa caucuses. >> let's take a look directly at the hard money and what's happened again so far this year.

clinton has spent 44% of hard money leaving her with 33. she has a burn rate of 57% throughout the whole context of the campaign. actually surprisingly, most of the candidates have a similar rate of burn rate. in other words, they have calibrated their spending over this whole nine month period to course respond with what they've been able to raise. sanders has been the most frugal. the republicans have far less. >> i think it's meaningless because none of them have all that much. in presidential politics what matters is can you go on television and rallies and talk to voters in iowa and new hampshire and effect them. the tv airways are going to be packed with people. the difference between 12

million or 27 million doesn't matter near as much. >> the trend lines are different. if we turn to the next slide, in the third quarter bush raised $13 million. marco raised 5 million. sanders raised almost as much money as clinton and spent a heck of a lot less and his burn rate was less.

>> if i'm a money person i'm looking at bernie sanders and saying he's doing it right. >> the ones to raise small dollars are the ones that will go the long haul. >> if you get down to all those guys they're spending as much as they're raising if not more. they're beginning to be financially strapped. >> none of it raised on the wow. >> wow.

coming up, the daily callers standing by. alex joins us. at first he thought there was no way donald trump was going to be his party's nominee. now not so sure. he comes back to share. the must read opinion pages next on morning joe. tal data are sto. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions from a trusted it partner. including cloud and hosting services - all backed by an industry leading broadband network and people committed to helping you grow your business. you get a company that's more than just the sum of it's parts. centurylink. your link to what's next. (patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want-

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in washington political purple strategies, alex. >> we have to start with alex. >> dond trump is my bad biker boy friend. >> donald is not as good to me as my old boy friend. when i ask him why he didn't come home last night, he said, that's just the way he is. he tells me not to worry because everything is going to be just like our nights together. >> this is alex's. >> that is a sick way of saying you think me might win. >> and you were wrong, alex.

>> sick. if somebody loses momentum and don't take it straight to the ground and pull it back up and start doing better than donald trump then i start going okay, hold on. this guy has, this woman has staying power and that's exactly what you looked at. the dip, plateau, what everybody else called it and now you look at these numbers last week where he's 38% in nevada and south carolina. he's not 30s in the national pole, that should be an indicator that probably the republican establishment, right. >> i think so, staying power. >> no, that's happening. voters have looked at donald trump for short term trim and stuck with him a long time. at times they have wondered away. is there anybody else with his strength. it's a scary world.

we want a tough, strong leader to protect us. >> when did they wonder away? >> because it's a little, he's such a wild card. >> every debate is a challenge. we've said after both debates, wonder if he's going to drop this time. after the second debate there seemed to be a slight drop, slight plateau. he's recovered from that. what happens after the third debate? >> where he will, i think it does get a little tougher for trump now. he's passing the tests. that distinguishes him. now it's not just comparing him to other candidates.

it's going to be is this a guy we can put next to the nuclear trigg trigger? how do we see him as president? the challenges taken seriously is going to be bigger now. >> trump is going to fall. someone has to stop him. which two of the other 15 or 14 have the best assets to stop him? >> it has to be someone who can stand up to him and not look foolish. i think jeb bush has not been shown to be able to do that. i think people like marco who doesn't play with him and take the debate half the time or someone like carly who in the last debate. >> which two could beat trump in? >> that's a good question.

>> like everyone else in the beginning you would say donald trump had a zero chance at winning. at this point it's far above zero. >> i think it's how does he not win the nomination at this point. >> i think that's the real question right now. what is the dynamic, alex, that knocks, that changes things that knocks donald trump off? he's been in first place for over three months. it's not like we've given the car a test drive. what happens over the next three months that's not as crazy or weird that's happened over the next three months? >> there's only a couple of things that could happen. it doesn't matter he's not been in iowa. he's been everywhere nationally. he doesn't have to run a boots on the ground campaign. two, since the beginning of the media age, no one has earned a republican nomination who has

not won either iowa or new hampshire because that's where the or both. trump is in the position to do that. the only guy to stop him in iowa is probably ben carson. then if we go to new hampshire does a rubio or jeb or fiorina beat him there. >> if it were ben carson, that would open things up. skbr coming up, is nato really prepared to take on russia if syria's civil war spills outside its borders? former ambassador nicholas burns joins the discussion on morning joe.

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nchtsds let's go to boston right now. we have former ambassador nicholas burns who led the bush administration's effort towards dealing with iran. what is the biggest danger of the united states allowing russia to take over the protection of syria? >> the danger is syria is growing to a war. the war could bleed into israel.

this is a pif toll region of the war. the source of american strength is we organize coalitions of countries. i think this is really hard. it's always a zero sum gain with him. we stay disengaged or send troops. the middle ground is what george bush did in 19990 in iraq. why can't we do what the united nations did post germany?

why can't we form a coalition? >> what would that be? certainly challenging what putin is doing by challenging him, the russians and -- to do more to have corridors of humanitarian support for the refugees. i certainly agree with hillary clinton and others we should have a no fly zone. turkey shouldn't be part of our coalition. that would draw boundaries with the russians and repose limits in what putin could do. we ought to third wrap up our intensity of their operations against the islamic state. i think there's a lot more the obama administration can do. i think there's a crisis of confidence about the american

leadership. >> i want to follow up on that. a lot of leaders saying we would get more involved and put more skin on the game. we just don't trust the united states will be there. that's something i've been hearing four or five years from gulf state leaders but it's certainly seemed to intensified over the past six months. would you agree? >> i do. i think it's been underway for that length of time or more. >> the problem is we're still, the united states, the strong e power outside the middle east. we've played the roll, iraq was an aberration. as the coalition leader of a widely desperate group of countries, if you don't play that roll you enter the vacuum. the result of his actions will

be if they strengthen outside that's going to drive up the number of killed and wounded. eventually negotiations towards a new government in syria. >> thank you very much. coming up, do better breaks make us strive faster and cause more accidents? what about high-tech football helmets? greg explains how when we feel safer we take more risks impacting everything from finances to food. >> also, new poles coming out on the democratic side post debate. i think you may be surprised.

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coming up, how well did hillary clinton do on her first dewait? we're going to take a look at new poles just out this morning. the talk about debate. then if it made any difference at all. your going to be in shock by what we find. plus bob is here with his new book.

does it get anymore exciting than that? who would have believed it was about polo in the hamptons? wait, no, it's not. that's the one i'm working on. more morning joe straight ahead. we take away your stuffy nose. you keep the peace. we calm your congestion and pain. you rally the team. we give you relief from your cough. you give them a case of the giggles. tylenol® cold helps relieve

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to like the hillary clinton my team and i have created for the debate. >> sanders, how are you? >> i'm good. i'm hungry, but i'm good. >> excuse me, it's me, jim web, your future president. i was promised i would get time and i've had no time. where's my time? come on anderson, lob one at me. >> it was a good one. welcome back to morning joe. it's monday, october 19th. it's so fall and cold. >> and by the way, it snowed yesterday in connecticut. at least we have low taxes. >> with us on set managing

editor mark. in washington g.o.p. pollster and author of the selfie vote and joining the conversation a surprised winning, associate editor of the washington post. the author of the book, absolutely -- >> first, let's talk to, let's get bob's reaction on the news of the day first. >> all right. new poles of the democratic race this morning showed last week's debate changed little in the national post. bernie sanders is up 29%. vice president joe biden follows at 18% dropping four points. former senator jim web of virginia gave one point to 1% while former maryland governor

dropped one two below 1% each point. when asked who did the worst, lincoln topped the list at 41%. 31% thought it was web. in the pole, 48% of democrats say hillary clinton is best to handle the economy. 29% bernie sanders and 13% for joe biden who wasn't even there. but the margin between clinton and sanders slinks to 5% when the question enphrased as inequality. 43% to 48%.

>> as well as her press was off review for it, basically, it's ecstatic. we're waiting to see can she come back? we'll see when the vice president gets in the race. >> this becomes maddening to democrats. i think he's coming to the point where he'll have a make a decision soon.

>> for the weekend he hasn't decided. i think he might do it now. i didn't before but i think he might. >> it sounded like he might go. you see the comments union leaders say after talking to him. >> i think he's decided both ways over the last months. >> i know for a fact there's somebody very close to him. he actually said i'm coming to dinner a number of months ago and i've decided to run. i think in the course of this he's undecided to run and maybe decided again and you know, this is the way people make important decisions. yes, no, yes, no.

>> he can go hope and be with his family and grand children. they love their children and grand children. standing by the soccer fields on saturday afternoon when great decisions are being made, not exactly what they're built to do. >> you can be a great father, grandmother, hillary clinton, is she going to be going around the bake sales, hanging out with her grand daughter? i'm sorry. it's not who she is or who she's been. that's why your father still flies by himself and going to the uae and in the next month he's by himself and that's why joe biden sitting at home watching soccer games. not a great thing.

>> what some people are able to do for their family is lead and that makes them connect with their family in every way they do naturally while others are different. >> it has to do with the practical realities. every passing day it gets harder and harder. the debate didn't help him. it's hard to imagine he wants to run for the heck of it. >>. >> he's been around politics for

decad decades. that's how winning helps. >> he thinks he can win. he's not afraid of losing. >> knowing joe biden the way we do, mika. >> uh-huh. >> joe biden had rather go out swinging than go quietly into that dark not. >> i don't disagree. so kristin, i'm wondering, i need to put you in the corner and make you the selfie expert. how do you think the my lineals and younger people, like hillary

clinton, has a lock on that? >> i don't think hillary clinton has a lock on the youth vote at all. if you take a look at the cross tabs, typically, bernie sanders does well among younger voters. there are mediums all over the internet. the question is, is he going to be able to win the voters? i don't know.

>> we've been discussing hillary clinton's e-mail server. here's more of what she had to say about it over the weekend. >> bernie sanders said that quote the american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. there are a lot of people who are not. including fbi officials looking into whether national security was compromised. >> at the time nothing was

classified. at the time and in prior years, the rules allowed it. who had a server in their basement? >> this is one of remarkable things. she says things. >> that are not true. >> on television she knows are not true that her staff knows is not true, that the press knows is not true. that the people following the story knows is not true. collin powell didn't have a private server he ran all state department and private businesses threw. >> that's true.

you got an fbi investigation going on. >> when she was secretary of state she could tell her driver go 150 miles an hour and in a sense that's permitted because she could say it. that doesn't mean you should go 150 miles an hour. it's the volume. we're talking about 60,000 e-mails. tell me who hasn't said

something dumb or inappropriate. >> she also says something so misleading and so wrong i know you, of course, as much as anybody would know it. when she talks about and i can't believe you're still saying this. after the intelligence community, nothing was more classified at the time. that is the most ridiculous and aimed justification. >> it really is. >> they said oh my god, we have to mark this classified. if sydney reveals the source, if somebody reveals the source of a

human intelligence agent on the ground in a war zone in libya and it's not marked classified, it doesn't make it right it passes through her server. >> more significantly when she talks you don't say top secret and then talk and she has to know and make the judgment and i think in fairness to her you got to go through and say how classified were these things? were there serious violations, did information get out that shouldn't get out and but you know, it's what you say that's more important than what's in the documents going back and

forth. >> i wanted to ask you, the fbi investigators very angry by barack obama. barack obama saying you know what, they may be investigating that but i've already reached by conclusion. there's no problem there. >> yeah, and if you know fbi agents, they are not going to be hampered. they are going to make sure that they turn over every rock and look at everything. the problem is this may take a long time. >> were you surprised president obama concluded the fbi investigation? >> he didn't really do that. >> let's look at what -- >> based on what he knows. >> i don't think it posed a national security problem. i think it was a mistake she's okay knowledged. >> do you agree with what

president clinton has said and secretary clinton has said ins not that big of a deal. do you agree with that? >> i'm not going to comment. >> do you think it's not that big of a deal? >> what i think is it's important for her to answer these questions to the afgs of the american public and they can make their own judgment. i can tell you this is a situation where the -- was not endang endangered. no doubt there's been breeches and these are all a matter of degree. we don't get an impression here there was purposely efforts to hide something or squirrel away information. >> when i first heard that, it shocked me that he would say that. he said i can tell you. >> this is the president of the

united states. i can tell you that america's national security wasn't compromised and there was no deliberate attempt it's a fuzzy word. >> the technicality of whether it's classified or not. >> the collect answer. >> what i'm interested in like the back of my book here. let's see all the documents and

e-mails. i can tell you that was premature, at least. >> i thought he was saying based on what he knows some source, you're right. >> bob, you can get off the stand now. >> i'm dealing with politicians when keep saying i know what i meant. >> she's talking to a guy that's running the wars in iraq and

afghanistan and deemed those personal. >> we know your professional and personal life gets integrated. >> she says it was approved and he said who approved it and her answer is -- >> what she meant, i think this part is clear. what she meant was the time she became secretary of state, there was no policy against using e-mail for the business and therefore, she was operating the rules as they existed on january 20th. >> she said not to put everybody on the witness stand but let's be very clear. she said it was approved by the state department.

we have talked to the top people in the state department who have all told us it was not approved by anybody. she did it on her own. she brought her own server in and nobody signed off on it. >> isn't the other way of answering the question when she said it was approved by the state department, isn't she just avoiding saying i approved it. >> she's the boss. she's the boss. >> she's saying there's nothing to o prove. >> she approved it. >> that's the answer. >> oh my god. >> that's the correct answer.

>> nine months later they changed. >> instead of, she makes life so much harder on herself than she needs to. doesn't she, bob. >> yes. >> bob, you have been following the clintons so closely since 1992 when you started writing incredible books on them, was the choice the first book? >> the agenda. don't they always make life harder on themselves. it's maddening. >> they're not the only ones. but they do. you know, look, straight talk is valued in american politics and people, voters can smell it. they can hear it. when somebody comes out and says hey, look, i saw bernie sanders in the debate when he said the public is sick and tired of the e-mail discussion. he meant that. that was straight talk from him and as he pointed out, bad

politics. but i love straight talk. i love transparency and it's hard. the message managers and the handlers and everyone says do it this way, i mean the joke that you played of hillary clinton saying i think you're going to love the campaign i and my handlers have put together. >> the hillary you're going to see tonight. >> oh my gosh. >> still ahead, we're going to talk about this next. bob stays with us to discuss his new book of the missing piece of the water gate puzzle. still ahead, senator worked alongside joe biden for years. what does he think of a bid by the g.p. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope... doesn't work on wrinkles.

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that was ago sander butterfield, the former white house aid under president richard nixon being questioned by chief minority counsel during the senate water gate hearings in 1973. >> surprising after that question he asked about reversed

mortgages. >> he did. >> he was the man of the time. >> he was. >> i hear it's a good deal. >> woodward of the washington post wants full surprise of his coverage of the water gate scandal. he's written a few books. this happens to be his 18th book. the last of the men. welcome back. >> it is fascinating. you actually have told so much of the nixon story but you saved for your 18th book the story of the man who often was the first to see nixon come into the office and the last to leave at night. i don't mean this disrespectfully to him, but sort of the proverbial fly on the wall. >> yes, having the office adjacent to the oval office. you know, i didn't save this. what happened is butterfield has

never told his story and squirrelled away thousands of documents. i ran into him a couple of years ago and having the luxury at the time went out to his apartment to see what the box in the attic was and it turned out to be 20 boxes and there's a whole story that we didn't know. i was really shocked by some of this. particularly, the vietnam stuff. there's that one memo where nixon in his own hand writing says they've achieved -- been a failure. the night before he's on national television saying it's very, very effective and you connect the dots in all of this. the tapes and other documents and you see that the bombing was so poplar that nixon kept it up in order to win re-elections, not for war. >> despite the fact there was a military side of it that made

sense. let me ask you, four years later, what does alexander butterfield think of his old boss looking back? there's been nixon revival in many corners. what does he think of a guy had worked with? >> he told me it was a cess pool. there were obsessions nixon had. we know some of it. i tell you, the death of it. walking through the staff office. >> he talks about the old man and loves it. not so with butterfield. >> i think a lot of people when you look at that time record of nixon, this is a level of mismanagement and i mean, he's sitting around spending his time as president when you can do

things for people. he's worried, oh my god people have john kennedy pictures in their offices, we have to get them out, this is an infestation and butterfield does a long investigation and a memo directly saying it's a sanitization of the staff offices as if there was some disease there. >> oh my god. >> obviously, the vietnam war, the watergate piece is much more historically. the picture you painted of nixon and the first time butterfield met nixon. just all of, just this whole, everything we did bits about. the way you fleshed out his positions with people and the spigs and paranoia was quiet amazing. >> nixon is isolated. he's lonely. he is unhappy. he is, it delegates the

management of his wife, pat nixon to butterfield. butterfield gets the deal with her and some of these proposals nixon had like steak dinners only meeting a small group of people and butterfield goes in and says to pat nixon, the president sees only five people and everyone else is off. he wonders if you want to do that and she says alex, are you kidding and he said no. then she said no, i'm not going to do that. i like to meet everyone. you go into this and see nixon wanted to meet and deal with just very few people. here was a man in politics who didn't want to meet, didn't want to talk to congressmen, senators, it's an astonishing.

>> he was so awkward around people. >> joe, you as republican and supporter of the military, you look at this stuff on the management of the vietnam war and it is apauling that he would do, i mean, i'm going to try to track down john mccain and say what do you think when you were taking your plane in there and continue to drop bombs over a a asia. obama back and forth on this in the middle sooes. whoever is going to the next president is going to have to

wrestle with all those possible war decisions. >> oh my gosh. >> how did butterfield get the job? >> an accident. >> he new nixon's chief of staff to be from ucla and went to see him and butterfield at this point is the perfect air force kernel. he knows how to clean, order everything and he gets the idea this would be the perfect deputy. mika has gone and found the most important document. >> in the steak dinners the president feels henry should not always be put next to the most glamorous woman president.

he should be put by an intelligent and interesting dinner partner. >> there's memos on why he wants air force one and this office and that office and holderman responding as if it was deployment of. >> oh my gosh. the president would like you to check to find out who the woman is in the eob who has the two candidate pictures. what's her background? new, old, someone we can trust, et cetera.

>> they did a full field on her. checked with the cia, fbi, the house with the committee and finally concluded she's a loyal american and lives in silver spring with her sister. >> thank you. thank you for spending important white house time on that, gentleman. >> talking about fun memos. devastating memos in here. thank you so much for being with us. a great honor. >> can one person's use of antibiotics negatively effect the health of society. the wall street journal is here with his new book on how safety can be dangerous. i get this. plus another wave of violence in israel. now the government is putting up walls to help random attacks. more morning joe when we come back. alright team, we've got an f150, needs a systems check and tires. doc, i need you on point for this one. already got the latest updates direct from ford engineering.

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soldier and wounding at least 10 other people. as a way to stop some violence they built a way between a palestinian neighborhood and jewish neighborhood dividing east jerusalem. mark, where is this going? >> this is one area john kerry has good relationships and invested a lot of time. the best he can do is try to handle the short term violence. underlying problems, issues on both sides involving economics and day-to-day life you can't solve any time soon. >> the mayor was in israel over the weekend, went to a hospital in jerusalem. >> i think bill is there for other reasons. >> right. i think he might be. he might be making a political point for himself. having said that, i think president's and more discussion on this and i don't know what the united states, the administration can do but pulling aside and not doing

anything is -- >> up next, from forest fires to financial troubles, our next guest say we should let small disasters happen so we can better deal with the big ones. craig is here with his new book on how some danger makes us safe. it feels like a parenting advice, actually in some ways. that's next on morning joe. are you moving forward fast enough? everywhere you look, it strategy is now business strategy. and a partnership with hp can help you accelerate down a path created by people, technology and ideas. to move your company from what it is now... to what it needs to become. bleeding gums?

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>> the concept is we have this fundamental drive to make life safer and our environment more stable. what we often don't realize there are more intended consequences. if you make the environment more stable people are encouraged in taking more risks. they come back to us in a different form. >> exactly. i was trying to explain this to joe. when his son was two and he made the little boy wear a mel met and he got thick carpeting all over the apartment and put padding on the walls. table corner had a little pillow on it. >> what's your point? these personal attacks. >> there's actually a good point

there. the fact that we are so over enthusiastic about prescribing anti biotics for every bug that comes along is causing other problem. >> what should we do. >> we need to be adults about this. some will produce bubbles and the occasional crisis. the fwoel should not be an economy with no crisis. our goal should be an economy that can survive the cries that come away.

you have more fuel that accumulates and you get bigger more intense players and that's one of the reasons this year will be one of the worst years on record for wild fires. it's a warming climate but the fact we have small fires. >> so you say we create our own disasters and talk about living near the water. it's almost like in some ways you're saying be careful and try and manage your risks because of where we choose to live. >> that's a practical question. would you help people who chose to live near a hurricane zone and got wiped out in a hurricane or would you make them take that risk themselves? >> yes, you would have an insurance program that charged people the correct price for

living there. >> they can't assume a disaster is going to happen again. a lot of people didn't realize new york city sits right in an area that's bound to get hit by a severe hurricane or a storm. they haven't been around for the last time. the good news story here which is that it's a wonderful place to live in new york or miami or tokyo and be near the water. it's great for your psych and tro transport. the idea is let's never have a storm or have the city flood again. let's do little things. put them on the second floor. >> airplane safety, how does that fit in all this?

>> one of the things i find amazing about airplane safe si is i don't know those of us that are journalist can remember the airlin airlines, when i wrote my book, i wanted to explain why it's safe to fly and what i concluded is because people are so sensitized to the danger of plane crashes we take extraordinary lengths to make it safe to fly. there's a little antidote i discovered. we interview them about near misses and disasters and publish the stories. this creates a culture of caution among all the other parents and control. oh boy, i better not let that happen to me. in aviation they have a saying it's good to be a little bit scared because it means you don't get complacent. >> you know, it's hillary clinton a little bit scared. we talked about her driving 15

miles an hour. i've got to say one of your best points, i think, has to can with the football helmet regulations and we talked about this a good bit as we talk about violence in the nfl and spinal injuries. the safer the helmet, the more the spinal injuries you have. you can go back to the 40s and 50s when they didn't wear face guards and helmets were leather. you ask any rugby player how they run around and tackle without helmets they say we keep our heads out of it. >> yeah. you're right. the result was sphering other players puts pressure on the spinal column.

sphering is illegal in college and professional football but still difficult to remove every possible incident as the use of the helmet as a weapon. that's why it's so difficult to weapon. even as you write these new rules, the fact of the matter is football always has been and probably always will be a violent game. it's one of the reasons it thrilling for the players and thrilling for the fans. had people go to a rugby game, they expect something different. in rugby, you're not even allowed to wear a helmet. >> congratulations on the book, it's called "foolproof." we'll be right back. much more "morning joe" straight ahead. ar for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him.

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trying to inseminate his jelly fish. >> i'm black and better than ever. >> i'm so happy you're alive. and if you receive any insurance settlement because of this, i may also be in love with you. >> and this part is no joke. we're so happy you're okay and even happier you're ready to make people laugh again. are those smash people down below me again? are they? >> i have my cast, my crew, everybody, get up here, y'all. >> that was nice. "saturday night live," they've had a stronger start let's just say charitably this season than maybe the last 43. this has been a good season. >> some people suspect tina fey may have helped write the show last night and that played a

role. >> tina fey, you go back and look at all of the classic "saturday night live" skits -- >> class of the upper west side. >> she is. she's great. >> okay. i know the kid and the michigan state, the kid who won the -- >> he was going to be -- >> he's out for the year. dislocated hip. and dan refuses to give me the information. i watched his head go down like that. if you could show the other angle. first of all, his head hit hard straight down. his shoe fell off. all the kids piled on top of him. the minute you could see him, i jumped up and said he's hurt, terribly hurt. you have to go back to -- >> stop! >> so much pain. >> going back to 1978, i talked about the giants fumble. i would say because there's a

rivalry and i hate to even say this, the only other parallel i can think of is when alabama tried to kick a field goal three years ago. >> it was an incredible seven-second moment. >> that such an epic and unnecessary ending. >> but how did it happen, dan, i'd like to know. >> coming up, donald trump gets a rise out of jeb bush. he always seems to do that by raising more questions about the last president bush. why is jeb defending his big brother? and also new polls about hillary. hillary. and mui- yere and multi- it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support.

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i have told my own republican colleagues and friends shut up talking about things you don't know anything about. >> it's monday, october 19th, welcome to "morning joe." we have the managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin, economic analyst steve rattner and in washington and author of "the selfie vote," kristen anderson. did you see larry david in. >> it was unbelievable. >> or was it bernie sanders? >> that's the question. you can't tell. they should send larry david out to campaign for bernie sanders. >> when you are waiting for

17-year-old to come home, you actually watch "saturday night live." >> we have it. can i show it? >> come on. >> how would you each differentiate yourself from the obama administration? >> for me, i'm an outsider, anderson. i'm the on candidate up there who's not a billionaire. would have a super pac, i don't even have a back pack. i carry my stuff around loose in my arms, you know, between classes. i own one pair of underwear, that's it! some of these billionaires, they got three, four pairs and i don't have a dryer. have i to put my clothes on the radiator. >> reporter: do you have more than one pair of underwear? [ laughter ] >> no, no, no, this is a serious question. i mean, we had the ellen dancing thing. this is a country in crisis and

the american people saw me dance, right? yes, last week i boughtunderwea. that's a joke. please don't write it down. that was a joke. joke, joke. i have an ample supply of underwear. >> oh, my gosh. larry and bernie, i don't know who is who. very good, larry. >> we go from boxers to briefs. that was very good stuff. >> it was funny. >> donald trump is taking his feud with jeb bush to new heights. and it all began with this interview. >> here we go. >> i think i'm much more competent than all of them. when you talk about george bush, stay what you want, the world trade center came down during his time -- >> hold on, you can't blame him for that. >> he was president. blame him or don't blame him, the world trade center came down during his reign. >> anyone outraged here?

>> i'm not president of the george bush fan club but to blame him for 9/11 is outrageous. i think what he did after 9/11 was kind of his finest moment. it's beyond ludicrous to blame him for 9/11. >> jeb bush responded on twitter, "how pathetic for donald trump to criticize the president for 9/11. we were attacked and my brother kept us safe. in an interview in "the washington post" "you always have to look to the person at the top. do i blame george bush? i only say he was president at the time and you can say the buck stops here. we had very weak immigration laws, "they were not talking to

each other, if i'm president -- >> i don't know why he keeps bringing this up. it doesn't show that he's a serious person as it relates to being commander in chief and being the architect of a foreign policy. across the spectrum of foreign policy, mr. trump talks about things as though he's still on the apprentice talking about syria saying russia should take out assad and then take out isis, as if it's some sort of

board game. >> "jeb bush should stop trying to defend his brother and focus on his own shortcomings and how to fix them. why did your brother attack and destabilize the middle east by attacking iraq when there were no weapons of mass destruction? bad info? >> as we've seen the past year or two, george bush is climbing back up in the polls. >> conventional political strategy would say that trump is not doing a good thing and that bush is doing a smart thing. trump doesn't play by traditional rules. i think the bigger question is is it smart for jeb bush to constantly be defending his brother and revive his campaign by attacking trump.

i think the answer to that on both scores is now. >> kristen, is this a possibility here where this is one of these things where we are shocked, appalled, stunned, yet this is resonating out in america? are we the disconnected ones or is everybody shocked and appalled? >> i don't know that everybody is going tock shocked and appalled. i don't know that this is resonating with them either. it's another thing that donald trump has said that's going to make news a day or two. >> does it hurt him? >> i don't know that it hurts him. i think it's correct he now has a ceiling of how high he can go in the party. he's in the poll, it hovering around 25, 30%. i don't know that he can go above that but i don't know if

he needs to. i thought this was over and now he's going to be hosting "saturday night live." he's got more and more, second and third and fourth and fifth acts to follow. i don't think people know what to make of this. >> the republican establishment for the first time saying off the record this guy could win. i mean, the top people. alex castellanos is coming on saying there's no way he o would ever win the nomination. i've heard that from everybody. i don't hear anybody saying he can't win the nomination anymore. i tend to agree with you, mark halperin, that while this isn't a great move for trump politically, if you just look at it the way you'd look at a traditional candidate, i think the bigger danger is jeb bush. don't defend your brother. your brother can defend himself. his allies can defend themselves. i love my brother, i'm proud of my brother.

then move on. i think you're exactly right. i think the more jeb bush is ensnarled in a battle protecting his brother's dignity or his brother's reputation, i think the worse it is for him in the long run. >> he's the bush in the fight. and while there's affection for his brother in the party, we've all seen widespread polling -- people don't want another bush. >> even in the republican party. >> in addition, jeb bush didn't get in this race to fight with donald trump. every day he's fighting donald trump. that's all the stories about jeb bush are going to be. you've got to run on what you got in the race to do. he didn't get in the race to fight donald trump. that was not the original plan. >> but there was a period he wasn't responding as vigorously and he got criticized for that. people say you have to respond, you got to get back at it. >> you jab and you move on. you poke at him and move on.

you mock him and you move on. all right, listen, i like "the apprentice," i would have loved to have been on the "the apprentice," like five years ago. boom, you go where it goes. jabbing, mocking, look at him, laugh at him like his brother would. are you kidding me? i'm not going to waste my time with you. and then go. but they don't do it. they just sit there. all of them are so frozen and so intimidated and so scared. >> there's a tiny bit of something, all of those questions hurt. >> what snurts. >> the latest rift between trump and jeb, especially trump's explanation it have is painful. >> i understand you want him to blow it off but that hasn't been working. i wonder at some point not to trump but to an interviewer if there's perhaps a more

multi-layered answer to the george bush question. >> no, no, you don't go multi-layered. >> why not? all you say is bin laden did -- you guys share, it the rest of americans know we were attacked by evil terrorists who hated us because of who we were, because we support freedom, because we support women's rights to go to college, because we support women's rights to get ahead, because we support freedom of religion. we support freedom of no religion. but if you want to be like osama blad i don't know and blame george wncht bush, that's great. i'm with the other 99% of americans. and then move on. >> but there's going to be a follow-up questions about the other comments -- >> about what? >> and others will say it as

well about why we're engaged so for iically and endlessly in the middle east pretty now. i think jeb bush needs to be prepared to talk about lessons learned. >> you mean in iraq? >> yes, and all the other countries m middle east. >> that's simple. we made a mistake going into iraq. jeb bush can say i was with 75% of the -- >>'s lots of different lessons learned from the bush administration that jeb bush has to say about his brother. >> it's not a symposium about what happened in 2003. >> at some point someone's going to ask him. >> i think what mika is saying is jeb bush shouldn't get drawn into a lengthy discussion of what went right and what went wrong. >> no, that's not what she's saying. she's saying he's got to have answers to those questions.

>> at some point. >> those are hard questions to answer. >> he's running out of time to be a strong, credible alternative to trump by establishing what he's for for the american people. >> and is he his own man or did his brother keep us safe and that's the only words he's going to use? >> no one else is standing up either. who can stop trump right now? jeb still has more assets than the other candidates to stop trub. >> but. >> no, he doesn't. >> why not? >> my job if i decide to run for office one day. it not to defend my brother -- >> i'm not saying it to defend

his brother. here's why we're safe, here's why we lost thousands of lives. >> to mark's point, you should just punch it out and move on. elections are about the future, i'm going to do my foreign policy and he's got to break out of this rut he's in. >> he's running out of time. >> he is running out of time. they all are. >> every one of them are -- >> i think we're all saying the same thing. >> if you think can you stop trump after iowa and new hampshire -- >> if you think you can stop trump after he wins iowa, you're dreaming. if trump wins iowa, katie bar the door. at some point they're going to have to get together and figure out who stops him in iowa, who stops him in new hampshire, who stops him in south korea. >> still ahead, dick durbin,

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i think donald's campaign has been immensely beneficial to our campaign. the reason is he's framed as the central issue is who will stand up to washington. the national follow-up is who has stood up to washington? who has stood up to -- >> you think that distinguishes

you from donald trump and ben carson? >> and everyone else on that stage. >> we had a lot of stories this weekend about who was doing well, who wasn't doing well? >> money-wise. >> i saw about hillary's burn rate, she's spending too much money, she can't keep up with it, heard the same about jeb, a couple of stories about marco, didn't spend much money but he doesn't have much. >> let's take it step by step. let look at the entirety of the campaign cycle and who has raised what. bush has raised the most amount of money but he's -- >> let me explain to people, outside groups in orange. they can put ads up in the air, they can't coordinate it with the campaign. the money up into evidence to keep your campaign doors open is

the green money. the orange money doesn't mean a thing if it comes to paying staff or keeping your campaign running. >> clinton had exactly the opposite. she's raised $77 million of so-called hard money or candidate money and they've had a good bit of difficulty raising the outside super pac money or money of that sort. cruz has raised a reasonable amount of candidate money. >> you look at number one and number two, can't and sanders and the fact that the republicans are a good bit beneb beneath that shows how the republican establishment still can't figure out who is going to win this thing. >> of the green bars, of the candidate money, bush raised only 6% from donors of $200 or

less, carson raised 74% from donors of $200 or less. >> you look at that and you look at the candidates built to last. ben carson, he's going to be around for a while, isn't he? >> he's got small donors. i think increasingly he's going to have bigger donors and increasingly he's going to have outside money. the outside money he's got here is only through the first half of the year. you don't have to disclose the outside money again until the day before the iowa caucuses. carson has stepped up in that area. >> let's look directly at the hard money and what's happened again so far this year. clinton has spent 44% of her hard money, leaving her with 33. sheep has a so-called burn rate of 57% throughout this whole context of the campaign. and actually surprisingly, most of the candidates have a similar rate of burn rate. in order, they have calibrated

their spending over this whole nine-month period to correspond with what they've within able to raise. sanders has been the most frugal with he is money. he has almost money, candidate money on hand as clinton does. the republicans have raised far less money. >> what do you think of this? >> i think it's kind of meaningless. what matters is can you go on television and talk before voters in iowa and new hampshire. the difference between having $12 million or $27 million i don't think matters as much -- >> explain to me why we read articles this weekend about he and rubio --

>> if we can -- in the third quarter, bush raised 13.4 money of candidate money, marco raised only $7 million. bush had an equally high rate but he raised a lot move. sanders raised almost as much money as clinton, he spent a heck of a lot less so his burn rates a lot less. from a trajectory point of view, he's got a physically -- >> i'm looking at those numbers and saying bernie's doing right. >> guys who can raise long. >> he's going to have to prove he can raise more in the fourth

quarter. >> what happened in the third quarterzit hard to raise money in the third quarter because it's the summer and it's hard to get people to gather, people are on vacation. his outside groups have been advertising for him butch it's these guys. >> i don't really see a big different between. >> you didn't see all the marginal candidates on here but if you get down to the kristys and kasichs, they are beginning to ease as crumb that's next on owe morning joe." sometimes romantic.

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given me a refuge and reassurance. >> 28 past the hour. joining us assistant minority leader dick durbin of illinois. that was joe biden we were watching. >> senator, great to see you. tell us about your friend joe biden. >> possibly the best heart in politics, a real caring man. those of us who have been around have seen it in ways large and small. joe is the one with his arm around your shoulder when you're facing any kind of challenge in your life. that's why he's beloved in the democratic caucuses and i think quite a few republicans think highly of him. >> a lot of republicans love the guy. these decisions he's going through, people try to look at it in our business threw the le -- through the lens of other

politicians. it's simple, what you see is what you get from joe biden. >> i'm sure the day he announces, it's no longer going to be this heart felt man, it's going to be one of the candidates in the mix facing their live sort of a rust belt state where a lot of democrat democrats -- do you feel dk independent not asking you to knock hillary so let's say that beforehand but why we're seeing joe biden doing better in general lek polls right now than other democratic candidates. >> well, i think both hillary and joe biden have cred inlt on

the issues and experience on the issues, which is sorely lacking and i think intentionally so on the republican side. they're going for outsiders. >> it's what we do. >> i'm joking about ignoring issues. >> the basic background is one that brings him to his conclusion. joe's had bumps in the road and questions about whether he's misquoting people and such but hillary has a long history offers of ers controversy and that turns people off. i think at this point she still brings the strongest candidacy for our president. >> you've heard the concerns from krit being supporters about hillary, asking for i've. >> what's going to happen? how is this going to impact -- do you think she's turning the corner right now or do you think

we're all just in a state of suspended animation until the fbi investigation is complete? >> i don't know how that investigation will end. there there's. and bernie sanders, my colleague, an april pealing fella. i've heard all his speeches at democratic lunches for years. it's real, it's for real. many democrats are saying there's a long trek, a lot of things going on when investigations by this committee no the house and that committee in the house. i think there is this angst, this anxiety over the race. >> so you say he's appealing. is he a good leader? does me get stuff done? how's his record? >> oh, think his appeal is he is touching an issue that few will touch. >> but you worked with him. does he get things done?

>> excellent. when he was chairman of the veterans committee, he put together an amazing reform bill -- >> would he be a good president? >> i think he would be. the foreign policy part it have is not his strength but i think that he could handle thatwhat really resonates in his message is he's empa tiezing with middle-class families, saying i'm working myself to death and i don't know how i'm going to pay for. >> you wa every time you see a press conference on reing rhett advance apairs bunch the most conservative districts in america. they have pushed lieu together bipartisan reform. >> that moment at the debate

where he said "enough of the damn e-mails." it was m and one is saying about the other give her a break! that it me he win the nomination? >> i'm not sure. i don't want to say it's too late because it is a long time until next november. he has not had the starting structure that they've had. >> so you'd make him a long, long, long shot? >> i would. >> if hillary clinton said i'm i'm not sure will you butwe are all faced with the same challenge. what are we going to do when we

get personal/political e-mail on the iphone that drums ba a i mean, we all knew and i knew/and you didn't send e-mails out with your official business accounts. that's why as a former member and you as a current member, you look at this arrangement and you go help. how, how could how many times do you send somebody a note saying employees do not send po personal or political because things start overlapping and

beent so she's who had political inquiries, professional inquiries, classified information to all go to that one account but that's really dangerous. >> i think we have to step back and say what was the motor m we'll -- >> as much as she's answered every question already, she still wants to spend the week preparing to answer every question she's answered before. >> take a look on the republican side. they're putting a lot of faith in frey gowdy, who is a talented fella, to would you be if you

were undercut by someone in your own caucus. >> i think we have the whole field to team gatty. >> yesterday the republican primary was called a dumpster fire yesterday. and then they can't find a person in ledge be. >> i'll say it in new york city, go cubs! come on -- >> friendly confines. friend will we're here to break it all down had we come back. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored.

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joining us now is the editor of "the economist." >> it's very clearly challenging the power of the u.s. there. in the south china sea, we've got china flexing its muscles too. on both sides, the u.s. world

system we will being. >> we go from a bipolar world o -- >> but there is action. you talk about how the united states is the loan power this can project to you for. >> still -- interest's two interesting things going on there. you're right. the u.s. relative at least from outside the u.s. there is a sense that this country is stepping back. >> well, barack obama and his lan

lange. >> that may be true of the form are. des who the next president is. i don't know. >> i love how -- >> all, from of we go europe, the united states, what is the state of this country on the global scale? >> the assessment here is that the u.s. has chosen to pli a more back street role. if you believe in the importance of the u.s. pinning the international system, then economically and militarily? >> yes but i wish it were playing that role more

stridently sp. >> so do i think and think it will wait a year or so. some of the pictures here are staggering, reminds us of postwar europe. how bad is the situation there in and let start with the essential leader, merkel. >> she's in trouble, domestically. there's no doubt this refugee crisis is the fast the so far i'm not sure that europe is root into the challenge. >> we're hearing of candidates winning elections in switzerland and you look at great britt and seems like xenophobia, fiction

is reasonable doubting, you see some zen fob, rick become you wonder if it isn't part of an underlying cause, history of underlying cause. >> president obama said they play a weekend well or strong and pr will prmt zchb here -- >> historians will surely write i'm sure, you can't predict what's going to happen 20 years from now but i think most would say he took a weekend and made it much worse. you can dp around country by

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we're leading in every single poll -- >> i'm sorry, winning. >> but the polls have been

through the roof, every one of them. >> i think winning. >> and can ykanye -- >> winning. i'm by winning. i win here and i win there. now what. >> that was an ad by bobby jindal's campaign. it leads us to the book "winner. very good to you have on the show this morning. >> when you talk about winners in a variety of fields, which is really helpful. there's always a common theme that runs through most people who are extraordinarily successful. what are some of those things you pull out of the book? >> resilience, being strategic, being able to build and inspire

teams, even for guys in like individual sports, and i think also having a real love for and fascination with the process of what they do. i know contribute is not a big sport here but one my favorite savings who says the keep to becoming the winner and knowing the difference and -- it's sports business and politics and see what each can learn from the other. >> athletes who are successful tend to be more often self-delusional. they cannot fathom a world in which they will actually lose, which is self-delusional. that's what allows them to succeed. they're not weighed down by doubt or fear or anything like that. is that something that'son eke

to assets? >> no. if you look at your current presidential campaigns, can i see several of those people and i can look at them with my of. >> they believe because they had to con -- >> do you think he believes he'll be president? >> i think he believes he could be and on a short meeting i thought he couldn't. >> did this this is sending out a pretty strange message to the world. >> but he believes -- >> he believes all this. i can see why but i do think it's dugsal. >> i mean, barack obama, his first one pore office, dashl but

i main her my main profile on leadership because i think she's a real leader. i'm not sure i agree with this but she said everyone should get tired one. >> and it happens so quickly. you have a name that a lot of mensch may not know about but l when you wrote this book -- he was in the top of the gate. >> people were writing articles in may saying he may be the agreest manager ever. >> yeah. >> today six months later they're thinking about firing him -- >> i feel very bad for the book. >> no, it's not bad for the book. he said you can fire me if you want to. if you fire me, they will judge

you fref because i'm the guest true how quickly it turns. >> i think winners get tested and when they're tested, how they do wa what that, you know, he's one in four countries. but what's happened to him? in chelsea having a terrible, terrible, time and nobody can call himself in. do you know what he calls hmm. >> got it, got it, got it why do we accept in politics that our teams always fall out? sports people hate each other. you've got baseball players

player. >> i've always been devoted o labor party. my obsession with sore. politics is -- i think we can learn in politics from how you build teams, from watching the guys who do it well. i was starting to write a book about political campaigns. a lot of the people who have no joined the labor party to support john cubin. they will say. >> oh, my god, the republicans. >> they say to me when i say what i say -- >> they are.

>> they say usual get a point. winners and how they succeed. al ister campbell, thank you very much. it's very nice to meet you. thanks for being on the show. we'll be right back. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands

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>> we also learned hillary clinton is not doing any campaign events because she's getting ready to answer questions she's already answer the questions before. >> if it's way too early, what time is it, joe? >> stick around, msnbc live is coming up next. >> good morning. this is monday,