who else was at your home? were you alone? >> i was alone. yes. >> the whole night? >> well, yes, the whole night. approxima i'm sorry, a little note of levity at 7:15. >> the reason i say it's not funny is because it went well into the night when our folks on the ground were still in danger. so i don't think it's funny to ask you if you were alone all night. >> you asked if i had a skip. i had secure phones, i had other equipment that kept me in touch with the state department at all times. i did not sleep all night. i was very much focussed on what we were doing. >> welcome to morning joe. of course, hillary clinton and

the con questional republicans and democrats all day yesterday. the benghazi hearings that could only be seen in terms of theatrics as a tko for hillary clinton. not even a close call. also a new bloomberg pole out this morning that really solidifies what we learned yesterday. first i want to talk about the hearings. mike, any time you have a major national figure that goes before congress, it seems whether it's republicans or democrats, it's always the person behind the microphone that knows what they're doing that seems to make their questioners look like fools. whether it's the mid-80s or even oliver north, i guess i should say especially oliver north. this isn't just a republican phenomenon or democratic

phenomen phenomenon. yesterday a very bad day for the republicans, theatrically, at least. maybe new evidence came out but sure didn't look like it yesterday. >> joe, i happen to watch or listen to almost all of the hearings. don't ask me why. i realize i have no life. it's kind of pathetic. >> i think it's kind of beyond that, mike. 11 hours. it was an amazing performance. the questioning was largely hostile, angry, disrespectful toward her, toward her office, toward the casualties of benghazi, a total collapse of the system and the united states. you just eluded to the committee

hearings and i ended up thinking about halfway through the 11 hours that had this committee been employed to investigate the water gate break ins instead of sam ervin, sam dash the democratic counsel and fred thompson, the counsel who completed the hearing skillfully, if this hearing had been in charge, richard nixon would have finished his term. >> that would been great. but we can only wish that would have happened. just joking willie. i wasn't joking. i have to say that so they'll keep watching. you have an awful lot of respected conservatives at one point saying if he continues questioning much longer, we

might as well inaugurate hillary right after the hearings. >> yeah, and you heard that from a lot of conservatives. they said it was a very, very good day for hillary clinton. listen, i think these hearings were legitimate and they had access to her e-mail for the first time. i still like to know why ambassador stevens calls for help. we're not heated. if this was a display the committee put together after the months and months and months of preparation, it wasn't impressive. they got sidetracked on issues that even hillary clinton wasn't sure what they were talking about. she was often there watching back and forth like a tennis match within the committee fought to the end. >> that's part of the theatrics, willie. the theatrics were great and the democrats set it upwell and did it exactly like they should have

done. you have members of the committee badgering republicans. hillary can sit there and set up as a big win for hillary clinton. i agree with willy. there's a lot of questions that need answered. why did she ignore all the pleas for help. a guy on the frontlines in a war zone that was begging for additional security, why didn't he have that e-mail address? 11 hours and millions of dollars of investigations, i think most americans would say if that's all you got, it's not worth it. >> i would say even two bigger questions. why did u.s. intelligence officials miss the break down that was clearly happening in the run up to the attack and we didn't have much on what's being done since the attack. we had a little bit on the situation of safe rooms and how those have been reinforced.

big questions not answered. for me, imagine the 9/11 commission being conducted in the manner in which that condition was conducted yesterday. we wouldn't have found out nearly as much as we did in the process. i think nobody's minds will have been changed during the course of those 11 hours. if you went in thinking the mistakes were made but largely on the side of hillary clinton, you felt exactly that on the end of it. if you felt there was a conspiracy you probably felt that at the end of it too. >> the most telling moment though came at the very end of the day, the end of the festivities when tray goudy was asked if he learned anything from the hearings. take a look at what he said. >> what's new things you learned today? >> i think some of jimmy jord jordan's questioning. when you say new today, we knew

about some of that already. we knew about the e-mails. in terms of her testimony, i don't know that she testified that much differently today than previous times she testified. i would have to go back and look at the transcript. >> wow. not a perry mason moment. >> no, it wasn't. you could see it on his face as the hearing went on he was trying to show it wasn't a partisan affair. he was taking it seriously but frustrated with the way things were going. >> she was frustrated but let's be honest. he has himself to blame. they could not decide what the conspiracy was. that was the problem. what did she do so wrong. congressman seemed to think it was that she didn't care sufficiently that she was callus or something like that. others thought it was the fact that the ambassador didn't have her e-mail address which it's

not the way ambassadors communicate with the secretary of state. >> or never been to the house. didn't have the address of the house. there were others who thought it was all in the e-mails and others who thought it was about what was said after the fact. so you had a different conspiracy sort of popping up with every different number. they had their own private narratives of what went on. goudy should have brought order to that and did not. i think the central hearing, if we learn nothing about the people responsible for the attack, we learn nothing about the people who actually sacked and burned our facilities. >> surprisingly little about the decision to go into syria.

very little about the decision maki making. what is normal operating decision. is there anything like this outside but would normally happen. >> do you still have questions about what happened that night? >> if you want to talk in detail about the security side, yes, the cables came in from the embassy and so forth, but these did not look to me like hair on fire we really need extra help cables. i've been in the department for years when they send in special request. there was nothing about this personal, nothing about this out of the ordinary. it was still people in two bureaus. it does not rise to the level.

this particular compound in benghazi, as you know the state department has a quick reaction force responding to the compound. they were there within 24 minutes. i don't know how you get through a massive crowd of terrorist in less than 24 minutes. >> if the purpose is to say somehow the people on the seventh floor want to go more above, that's not the way the

state department works. >> from benghazi to des moines, yesterday we had the first big change. when a new pole came out showing donald trump falling behind ben carson. we've predicted this much in the last week. ben carson building up an operation. this morning, a new pole out confirming this race in the early state of iowa has been turned upside down. >> yes, it shows yesterday's pole was no fluke. brand new numbers show ben carson overtaking donald trump. the bloomberg politics shows carson at 28%. he's up 10 points from august. trump is down 4 points to 19%. ted cruz in third. marco rubio next and jeb bush tied with rand paul for fifth. ben carson's lead explodes.

47 points to trump's 28. look at the favre -- favorablfa. he calls obama care the worst thing since slavery. statements they liked least were his comments on -- he's doing well with white evangelicalist and women as well. >> evangelicals have always propelled people like pat robins

robinson. >> i think in the long run it may be more important for the way it impacts trump's campaign than carson's. yesterday his campaign has hacked iowa voters with a personal insult on a tweet. >> this is the first pole since june 28th anywhere donald trump has not led. let's go to more on the pole. likely republican caucus goers

are split on donald trump's insults of other candidates. they ask if trump is a committed christian. 40% not sure. when asked on the basis of religion alone. 69% of iowa republicans say it's unacceptable and 25% find it acceptable. remember the comment ben carson made on that a couple of weeks ago. 63% are less supportive of jeb bush. 34% not bothered by it. >> let's take a beth here. what do you think as we whip through the numbers? >> i think joe was right. iowa is reporteding to reform.

>> he could win iowa no question. we'll see. he has abunch of money. he's a smart man. there's things about life that make no sense to people. he clearly resinates with voters especially in iowa. >> willy, the next question you look at is whether jeb bush who is what? at 5% and tied with rand paul in iowa, at this point the bush campaign can't keep saying these poles don't matter, this doesn't matter, that don't matter, at some point jeb has to pick a state to win. i don't know if it's new hampshire, south carolina but you look at these numbers and

wonder whether it's not time for him to pull up stakes in iowa. which is carson country and trump country right now and start focussing on new hampshire? >> you go down the list and this is really a two horse list. >> as votes peeled away, who did they go to? they're beginning to see in the race between cruz and rubio. this becomes the person if and when carson fades. to me, that's the interesting dynamic. whose going to be the more conservative candidate and that's what you're beginning to

say. >> we've had a lot of people talking about what happens when carson fades and trump fades, over the past week we've been talking about ben carson's campaign operation in iowa and you look back at pat robert son, mike huckabee and rick santorum and i think it's safe to predict unless he does something extraordinarily shocking or new information about his personal background comes out, ben carson is not going to fade in iowa. expect ben carson to be there and donald trump is probably not either. >> joe, you say unless something happens. some of the things gene just mentioned, some of the things dr. ben carson has said add verges on crazy talk and he's right up there in the poles and not going away. his people, his support as i understand the evangelical base and commitment to them, donald trump's base, you can see it,

they're not walking away from their two candidates. there's going to remain some sense of ability in their can candidacies. >> at least in iowa, willie, new hampshire is another new issue altogether. there's cranky voters and new hampshire voters will decide when new hampshire voters decide. at least in iowa, i don't see the jebs and the rand pauls and a lot of these other main stream candidates catching ben carson or donald trump. >> one number i would think the trump campaign might be concerned about is the number on whether he's a committed christian. 32% of the voters thinking trump is a committed christian. he needs higher numbers than that amongst the evangelical communiti

communities. >> more in iowa than south carolina. >> more numbers in from yesterday. 89% of iowa republicans saban n sayben -- say ben carson is honest. >> i think voters are starting to look at that. his actual conservative credentials. >> i want to underline though in iowa, i would be surprised if we saw evidence of this outside of

iowa. i think iowa is a special case. ben carson has been playing iowa. if the election was held today, he said this three or four days ago ben carson would win. i will still be surprised if we see movement like this in the coming weeks. iowa seems to be its own special unique case study. >> absolutely. >> a lot more coming up. general michael hayden, chuck todd, all joins our conversation. plus john kasich on the case of the college in new hampshire. first we're tracking a hurricane. >> this is going to be a devastating blow. no words to describe what they're going to experience. there's small fishing villages down there. 13,000 people live in these two little areas.

these areas will experience, will be the equivalent of a 20-30 foot storm surge with an ef-5 tornado going through at the same time. people can't be in those towns anymore. they need to get out as soon as possible. this is as impressive of satellite images you'll ever see. they recorded 200 mile per hour winds. this is the strongest storm we've ever flown, any man, woman, anywhere has ever flown. it's the fourth strongest storm on our planet and later tonight this will make land fall if the strongest storm ever. this could be worse. here's the land fall projection. 100,000 people and 200,000. it's suppose to go in the middle of these two. they may not get the direct impact of a category 5 historic storm. it will be a devastating blow.

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getting a nice welcoming column from gene robinson. sort of warm fuzzy hug. what's the headline of gene's column? >> he roles out the read carpet.

>> requiring that legislation have the support of a majority of the g.o.p. caucus. if ryan does become speaker he will end up at the same position as boehner. if ryan gets the job he'll enjoy a honeymoon period. >> gene, why does he want the job done? >> i think he feels a sense of duty. the speaker of the house has a powerful job. you can get a lot done from there. he will rather stay chaerm. he made that clear. he had rather do what he was doing and have a bit more time to spend with family.

>> i think they want to be more engaged. paul has already asked for other concessions. time with family which is admiralab admiral. he'll be a good speaker. as a partisan, it doesn't help democrats to have someone that rational on the job. john boehner was that. paul was more so. if he has to revert to the other stuff, i do, i agree with your colleague. he'll fall to a similar.

>> so much has to do with personal leadership style. yesterday we were talking about great speakers. nancy i always put near the top of the list. of course, tip o'neal was very effective. yesterday when we asked nancy, i thought she was ahead. barny said she new the women. john boehner, the critique i've heard from one republican after

another, it was a top down leadership structure. they didn't find out what was going to be happening until they actually heard from reporters who told them from the next step was and it seems to me, if paul ryan has a bottom up approach instead of a top down managing approach, then i think we might be surprised at how effective he may be. i'm not sure if he's going to do that anymore than john boehner. >> i'm rooting for your approach. >> i question whether anything will work at this particular point in time. >> i think they want to go to break down the government. when you talk about top down leadership and that's one of the things that helped topple john boehner. i wonder about that too. i mean, for government to work, for the house of representatives to work, god knows you can speak to this better than i can.

harold can speak to it better than i can. you both serve there. one of the keys to governing in the house that seems to me from watching over the years is you add addition to a speaker like nancy, you had strong committee chairs who could control their committees. yesterday you saw a committee chair who seemingly either wants control of its committee or said do whatever you want to do. that's not the way it works. you can speak to this as well as me. i've had chairman and chair women come to me and ask for a vote who had not been the best leaders and use a heavy hand and they would said no, you're out of your mind. if somebody's going to keep me engaged and comes to me near the

end of the process and says joe, listen, i need your vote, okay. i'll make good. i would sit there and look at the ground like you, i would probably swear and then i would go okay, okay, i'll vote for it. >> it's a huge part of it. the trust factor with some of these newer members who don't respect a big part of how the institution works, mike's point of the chairs and the hierarchy of the leadership, there was a

time when the hierarchy could say to someone if you don't do this now and we're working with you on things, we're going to hurt your fundraising. the way it has been democratized and people can go on cable television and have their public profile raised without the help of the party apparatus, a number of things have contributed to them. >> the republican party is different and still amendable to the type of personal relationship. i'll compromise for you if you'll compromise for me. on the democratic side nancy has

the leadership skills but not committed as much. >> there's extreme members on the democratic side becau. i think nancy was a more able leader at the end of the day. harold ford will tell you there was a freedom caucus. expect we called ourselves something else we can't repeat on the air. we actually went after newt gingrich for two or three years nonstop before we kicked him out. there was a constant coo going on even when they were there. >> can you back off in this area or in that area. can you not go after new ton this week?

we really need to have american's focussing on this. the thing is we never would do a top down approach. they call tom delay the hammer. he was the hammer, perhaps, but better at building personal relationships this doesn't just apply to paul ryan. they need to stop saying that the presidency is too big for one man or one woman to run, it's not. you have to have the right person and power there whether it's a democrat or republican and i will tell you ask newt gingrich whether there was a quote freedom caucus when he was there and i will tell you they called us, not the freedom caucus. they literally called us and the

caucus meetings the young gentlemen -- >> nancy spent hours every week meeting with the black caucus, progressives, moderates, that was her week. she knew the members, what they wanted, what they needed. when it came time for a vote she said long, i don't give passes she once told me. she put in many, many, many hours getting to know the members, their concerns, what they needed, wanted, now, here's a question. paul ryan wants to reserve time for his family. we all respect that. we all reserve time for our families but can you be speaker of the house.

>> if paul ryan is going to be successful, he's not going to be successful by writing position papers. he's going to be successful by having members stream in and out of their office and having them tell him what they need and what he and the caucus needs. no, it's not a part time job and comes down to personal relationships at the end of the day. willie, i can't exactly say what i said to newt gingrich at one point but at one point when we had had our 100th fight, i said newt, you've just got to start communicating with us. i can either be inside the tent, we'll just say spitting out or i can be outside the tent spitting in. it's your decision. but you've got to, we've got to form a partnership. whatever they wanted to call us or not. that's something that john boehner never figured out that nancy did.

if paul ryan succeeds, he will not succeed because he's a brilliant policy analyst. he will succeed because he knows how to lead men and women. so much of that has to do with servant leadership. he has the respect of both colleagues on both sides. we'll see if he's up to the job. stay with us. the attempts to save hostages that left one american serviceman dead. general michael hayden joins our conversation. phil! oh no... (under his breath) hey man! hey peter. (unenthusiastic) oh... ha ha ha! joanne? is that you? it's me... you don't look a day over 70. am i right? jingle jingle. if you're peter pan, you stay young forever. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. ♪ you make me feel so young... it's what you do. ♪ you make me feel

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hillary clinton testified in congress for 10 hours on benghazi. >> that's like you. you bing watched the whole thing. >> i got on a plane and got off a plane and it was still going. >> when i got home i thought they were replaying it. it was still live. up next, much more of hillary clinton's testimony centered on the cia. we'll hear from former director of the cia on whether he thinks there was enough security there for american diplomats and spies.

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oh, epic moves, big j! fight it! getting ready for your close-up? ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. let's bring in general micha michael hayden. thank you for being with us. we have a hearing that's still continuing. did you learn anything new yesterday? >> no. nothing of any historical significance, joe. it was great theater he suggested earlier and perhaps as richard suggested earlier a bit of an opportunity lost. i would loved to have seen the

secretary address the broad speculation she thought we were following. then what happened after he was killed. i would loved to have seen her explain why she thought so. >> general hayden, i'm curious if you were troubled by ambassad ambassador steven cable's back to washington added security. richard was talking about them and didn't see anything that looked like hair on fire. need something tomorrow. what about you as you read through that. >> i also need to point out willy that anybody looking for any additional warning while they were in benghazi wasn't waiting on more evidence.

frankty, i am troubled by what wasn't done prior to attack in regard to security. >> would you hold the secretary of state accountable for that? >> of course not. sec ri tear of state is responsible for that. if something that critical didn't get to that level, she's responsible for the system she

governs. >> there's got to be a basic level of security. what would have been your sense of which way we should have gone here? >> close call. my sense was the cia base had add kwat security. it was serving as the alamo of the state department security there. that's what they would have fallen back on. from all i can see, the circumstances at the state department facility, that was an attack waiting to happen. they were vulnerable. once they got underway, there was no fall back. very few choices they could exercise. i think the mistake there was t the ambassador spending the night. >> to follow up on that, you have the quick reaction for us.

they got to the come pound in 24 minutes. who is in control? >> it's a state department facility under attack. they would have had an ultimate responsibility for that. mike, i agree with your analysis. on the night of the your attack, i'm willing to accept that everyone did everything right. everyone did everything possible. >> if you don't mind i would love to jump from benghazi to domestic politics. you signed up to be an adviser, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> has your confidence been shaken at all in what you've seen in the last several months on the campaign trail? >> you're asking a political question. >> that's what i'm saying, no.

i said we are moving from benghazi to politics here. >> the answer is no. in some ways it's been strengthened. here's a man who hasn't changed his position even though his position in the poles has changed. he stayed whether he's been in regard to immigration. i admire that. what you see is what you're going to get. >> from everything you've seen from donald trump, the front runner right now, do you think donald trump has qualified to be the next commander in chief? >> i don't know mr. trump personally. i am troubled by a whole series of his statements. it shows a lack of understanding, maybe a certain shooting from the hip that would make me uncomfortable for that to continue if he were president. >> what about hillary clinton? one final political question. we never ask you political questions. since we've gone down that road we're going to keep going down

that road. i remember one time joe klein asking general about all the people in the senate who he dealt with who the most about the military and his response he said you mean other than senator clint clinton, right. speaking of hilly clinton. along those lines, do you believe hillary clinton could be a strong and steady commander in chief for this docountry? >> i can tell you when i was briefing the incoming team after president obama's election, secretary clinton was the quickest study when i went through all of cias covert action. secretary clinton will be more involved in trouble spots around the world and overall, i think that's the right formula for american security going forward. >> kathy here. can i take you to one of the

current conflicts, the one in iraq and american soldier killed trying to rescue the prisoners from isis. the first american death since 2011. does this change the nature of mission now, should we be calling it a combat mission? >> it doesn't change the nature of the mission. it changes how we are describing it. this noncombat thing we've been saying is a bit of a political fiction. if you believe it, we had an american killed in a noncombat gun fight yesterday. that's an absurdity. >> can i say i agree, this is a glimpse of the future.

>> imagine how this could go if one of the american soldiers were taken hostage or killed in combat. >> general michael haden, always good to have you on, sir. coming up, chuck todd and tom joinous conversation. you're watching morning joe. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] ♪ my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand. ♪ my mom can print amazing things right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees.

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wabecome back. happy friday. we survived another week and hillary clinton survived about three or four weeks of testimony yesterday before the benghazi committee on capitol hill. become back to morning joe. great to have you here. what was the date you gave me last time donald trump wasn't in place for the major pole? >> it was a pole taken june 26th to june 28th. that's the last time he was not leading in any major poles and now we have him trailing. let's introduce the table. joining the conversation, cofounder of no labels and the star of the upcoming u.s.a. hit

show, donnie! . donnie, you cannot go anywhere in the city without seeing your mug on a taxi or bus. >> there he is. >> joe, joe, how much did you kind of want to throw up the first time you saw that. >> i pictured you seeing this and wanting to throw up. the question assumes i did not throw up. it has happened repeatedly. every time i walk out of 30 rock i see cabs and buses with your picture on it. it's absloot solutely -- >> it's just a conversation starter. it's nice. >> it's a whole new dating

option. >> it is good the record a man whose looking for new dating opportunities. so willy, we have been saying that trump's been in first place in all the major poles. he's still when you put in this perspective ahead in 49 states. it's the one state we were predicting ben carson would take the lead in last week. that said, this is something new and it's going to be interesting to see how donald trump responds to it. >> donald trump has ticked down marginally in the pole. the new numbers in the iowa caucus showed ben carson overtaking donald trump in that state. bloomberg politics shows carson at 28 points. 28% up 10.

ben carson lead's grows 47% to trump's 28. at 84% ben carson's favorable rating grows. donald trump is in the middle of the pact. as which candidates voters would like to see drop out of the race, a quarter picked trump. >> almost 60% of iowa republican caucus goers think obama care it's worst thing. >> agree with those statements. the statements they liked reach were his research on fetal tissue and lack of foreign policy experience. >> chuck todd, let's bring you in. obviously, ben carson, we've

been talking about the advantage he has with home schoolers and evangelicals. they actually unlike a lot of flash in the pan candidates grab headlines because of celebrity. they're doing more than that and raising a lot of money and they're microtargeting in iowa the same way barack obama did sometime ago. i wonder though is this anything special about ben carson nationwide or do you sense today this may just be iowa returning the form, the state that helped pat robertson, mike huckabee and rick santorum. >> carson could be a more powerful version of huckabee, of santorum and pat robertson. he's putting that together for iowa but when you look at his

overall favorable ratings and it's not just evangelicals gravitating toward him, look at his book tour. there's almost a revival type of appeal to him, he's getting thousands that wait in line hours in places like springfield, missouri or tulsa, oklahoma. so you know, it is, i think it is right now, we'll see if it lasts, we got to see if he'll take a punch. nobody has laid a hand on this guy and they have to be careful how they attack him. does he chalk it up to iowa or does he panic? >> mark, iowa is obviously iowa. it's a special case.

i want to ask something because chuck's on to something that may be transferable. maybe to other states with ben carson. people are waiting in line for him. he's going on book tours and thousands are buying his books. somebody asks me what's the appeal of donald trump and it's one word, strength. it all boils down to strength. america thinks this country is weak and want to be great again. donald trump equals strength. what does ben carson equal? why are people waiting in line for four hours to get this man to sign his book and why will they wait in caucuses on cold snowy nights? >> he's a good honest and faithful man and in the purest

sense, the big issue here though, i think, ultimately, will be what's going to be the surprise? ben carson leading in iowa shouldn't be a surprise. you predicted a while ago, many others did. there's going to be a evangelical out there. it may not be ben carson wins the iowa caucus. the thing that surprised me about the numbers i saw was rubio doing as well as he is. let's flash forward to the election. whose going to have the second and third ticket out of iowa? >> chuck eluded to this a minute ago. >> this is referring to the

business. explanation quote the young intern who accidentally did a retweet apologizes. trump reacted to the pole directly on the hue hewitt show. >> i was surprised to see it. i think we're doing well in iowa. i have a feeling we're doing much better in iowa than the poles are showing if you want to know the truth. i was leading in iowa, not by a huge amount. i was leading the iowa and i was very surprised to see i wasn't. that's the only one i've had i'm not leading. >> it's interesting to watch the way donald trump handles ben carson h carson as opposed to other candidates. he doesn't attack him the way he does other candidates. what's the deal? >> if we get their support, we're over 50% and we win the nomination. what ben carson and donald trump

wants is a one on one stand off between each other at the end of the day. because if they beat down the establishment, if they crush the cruz's, rubio's, bush's and it's those two against each other then they believe one of the two walk out with a nomination. donald trump will not criticize ben carson unless he's criticized first and ben carson has no interest in criticizing donald trump. what's fascinating, even though these two are at the top of the poles, they still see the republican establishment as their rivals and not each other quiet so much. which, of course, mark, that's highly unusual for any campaign where you have two people at the top of the poles like these two. >> what's going to happen is

there's going to be a movement at some point. the reason they're doing so well, they're taking the vote all to themselves and meanwhile, the establishment voters split up among 8-10 candidates. at some point it's going to be a face off. >> jeb bush sitting at 5% tied with rand paul. i will pull up stakes in iowa and move to new hampshire. on the strengths of what ben carson has on the ground that nobody is going to build to replicate between now and the time the iowa caucus. you get a call from jeb bush's campaign this morning, you obviously, one of the most sustained add men, brand men in america, despite your cheesy tv show and let's pretend you're a republican, what do you say when you get that call and you say we

want you to come on board, we need to rebrand jeb immediately, what do we do? >> you write off iowa and write it off and say i'm not rick santorum and pat robinson and you got to stop throwing punches. the problem, if you would have told me jeb would be at 5%, i would be stunned. they look and feel and smell different. the fascinating thing to watch about trump has always been the opening line, i'm in first. i'm a winner. i'm on top of the poles and now he doesn't have that. so you wonder. >> he still has them 49 states. most political insiders know iowa is iowa. >> the other, how does he adjust to that?

i think this is a fascinating backdrop yesterday as hillary was looking very, very presidential. i'm the guy who all along said people are tired of turning the page and don't want to watch the show with hillary anymore and the more you start to watch the other shows you go law and order, it's not such a bad hour and that's what i found yesterday just very seminol in the comparison. >> law and order candidate takes on an all new meeting. >> let's talk about that. hillary clinton left the capitol last night just before 10:00 eastern time. the former secretary of state stood her ground in the face of election. the afternoon session brought fireworks over clinton confidant sidney. did he have what they called unfettered access to the secretary of state when security

request never seemed to reach her desk. here's nbc news correspondent andrea mitchell with more. >> it was suppose to be about benghazi. it soon turned into bickering. >> what is relevant is he was sending information to the secretary of state. you need to make sure the entire record is straight. >> and that's exactly what i'm going to do. >> they argued the star witness tried to stay above the fray unlike in 2013. >> what difference at this point does it make. >> this time hillary clinton was poised, practice, pushing back with put downs. >> i wrote a whole chapter about this in my book hard choices. i'll be glad to send it to you. i'm sorry it doesn't fit urinary tif. i can only tell you what the facts are. i know that's not the answer you want to hear. >> in other times her face said

it all showing impatience, irritation or scorned. reflecting days of preparation at home sent off to battle this morning by her husband bill. the republicans were armed and ready. >> i'm happy to bring breakfast in. it would sure be helpful if we could get to the answer. this wasn't a trick question at all. >> the white house and amount of credit you were getting as opposed to amount of credit you were getting. >> the president deserves the share of the credit. >> why is the white house up tight you're taking the credit? >> a former clinton aid barred by the obama white house from working at her state department but sending private advice to her private e-mail account. >> he had unfettered access to you. >> i don't know what this line of questioning does to help us get to the bottom of the deaths of four americans. >> i'll be happy to help you

understand that. >> it was clinton who spent the most time talking about the victims of the attack. >> i would imagine i thought more about what happened than all of you put together. i've lost more sleep than all of you put together. >> cia officers and ambassador chris stevens. >> i stood next to president obama asthma reens carried his casket and those of the other three americans off the plane zbll with so many eyes over the entire 11 hours, some went in saying this is a big moment for hillary in her campaign and future. we've been reading a long list of conservatives who said this morning she was untouched and this was a good day for her. >> look, she was untouched isn't the right word i would use on this. i would just say, i don't

understand what the strategy was of the prun republicans arepubl benghazi committee. they went down a hole. i get that a lot of people believe sidney is a questionable character and there's questions about okay, if she's associating with him, what does that mean? it got him off track. the enafact that the most vital moment of the hearing is a moment between goudy and -- it tells you they sort of were just focussed on the wrong set of issues. she wasn't held under fire when it comes to the issue of the policy itself. you know, there wasn't a long string. here's the other thing. they didn't let her talk. to be cynical about this, when do politicians get in trouble, joe. when they talk.

they should have shorter questions let her talk. if they're looking for her to stumble they shouldn't have interrupted. >> you know, chuck, if the goal was to really inflict political damage instead of looking for a smoking gun eight or nine committees haven't been able to find, why not do what general hayden was talking about and do something radical. talk about a policy. a failed libyan policy she had taken credit for that ended up in the death of four americans and ended up in chaos in libya. instead they were playing perry mason. they never got the witness to break. here's the other thing. they were so focussed on trying to create a wedge between obama, white house and secretary cl

clint clinton, you guys were trying to take credit weren't you. okay. sidney, somebody this obama white house didn't want to see in government, you're sitting there, i guess we're seeing what you're trying to do here, if you want to make it relevant you probably would have needed three months of educating the public on sidney. >> chuck, as you said on our show yesterday, what a stretch of 10 days for hillary beginning with a debate of hillary clinton. then her performance yesterday before the committee. who do you have on meet the press? >> the new front runner in iowa, dr. ben carson, i'm going out there tomorrow. he's got a big book signing. got to get out there before he does it. i have to say and joe i know you're saying what happens in iowa stays in iowa. what happens in iowa probably means that will be the conservative alternative

establishment. it's the favorite in the fcc primaries. >> i don't want to underestimate the impact of a great showing by carson in iowa. i know they've been brilliant focussing on iowa on the ground. i agree with robinson, a south carolina native, what happens in iowa doesn't happen in south carolina and i can tell you that iowa conservatives are a bit different than south carolina conservatives and sec conservatives. we're not iowa nice in the deep south. we're kind of mean. we're jaxonians. we want to go to war, we want to win the war, we want to wipe them out and come home and have our guns and be left alone. i think it's a slightly different conservative. make no mistake. a huge, you know what, chuck. the best way to put this and alex is screaming we got to go.

i've always looked at it this way. barack obama and his team if they won iowa they were going to win the nomination. they didn't have to win iowa but if they did they were going to win the nomination. i think that's what i think about trump. if trump wins iowa, katy bar the door, he's going to roll through new hampshire and everyone else. the only hope for the establishment to stop donald trump is have somebody beating him in iowa and somebody beat him in new hampshire. that's the way i look at it. >> i tell you a little bit of doubt in your face there. >> well, i don't think trump is going to win iowa. carson is going to win iowa. i just put that down there. >> and chuck has the conversation with him on sunday. it should be fascinating. we'll be watching meet the press. thank you as well. still ahead, our wide ranging town hall meeting with governor of ohio. we'll hear his plans for the country and what he won't do to become president. >> you know what, if you like me today, you need to help me.

what you see here is what you get. there's no hidden agenda, i'm not going to put three scoops of ice cream in my mouth to get attention or stand on the roof and take my shirt off. >> get that full town hall coming up. first, the great tom joins us here on set. we'll be right back. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. (friends gasp) the app where you put fruit hats on animals? i love that! guys, i'll be writing code that helps machines communicate. (interrupting) i just zazzied you. (phone vibrates) look at it! (friends giggle) i can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs... you name it. i'm going to transform the way the world works. (proudly) i programmed that hat. and i can do casaba melons. i'll be helping turbines power cities. i put a turbine on a cat. (friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition! >>mine hurt more.. >>mine stopped hurting faster! neosporin plus pain relief starts relieving pain faster

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welcome back to morning joe. great honor to bring in tom. tom, congressional committees usually don't fair so well against strong figures whether you're talking about oliver north in the 1980s or hillary clinton yesterday. hillary seemed to dominate. what was your take? >> my take was if somebody's left in america who doesn't have an opinion in hillary clinton, they're living in an ice cave. everyone's made a judgment about her at this point. i don't think it was changed a lot by what happened yesterday. i couldn't quiet see what the big overall strategy of the republicans were. one of the things we have to

keep in mind is we have a number of these kind s of terrorist attacks that cause more deaths. should there have been? probably. most of all, i think there should have been a big congressional investigation about the decision to go to war in the first place in iraq for weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. it doesn't take away from the roots. >> you've seen enough of these presidential campaigns. donald trump has led every major pole. the bloomberg pole shows him now trailing in iowa. how do you see this race shaking

out? do you start in iowa and move on from there? >> you have to remember in iowa president b president pat robinson won one year. people talk to their friends about the decision they're going to make for the long haul. my test is always close your eyes, who do you want to see in the oval office when a crisis comes along or day-to-day? i think we won't know for another month or so where iowa and new hampshire and south carolina and those states are going when it comes to the big decision. >> your process that you've described there are people

thinking deeply and talking to their friends, how do you think that effects both of the front runners and trump in particular? >> it's hard to know. obviously, they both touched a nerve. in a way more interesting phenomena more than donald trump whose a marketer and a well known guy in america and people standout side and have their pictur taken next to the big t. here comes a neuro surgeon unknown and not a dynamic campaigner. he's somehow touched a nerve. i don't know how that translates when they get to the voting booth. >> you have two minutes to reflect. it's, i think yesterday was

really encapsulating of what's going on in the country. i think the -- between the democrats and republicans are so deep at this point it's i -- i can't imagine except for the hard core really true believers on either side they thought much was achieved yesterday and a lot of times, a lot of media attention was taken up by what was going on and there were women getting up working two jobs trying to keep the family going. they may be the widows or women who are at home because their husbands are fighting over seas and saying what does that have to do with me? >> tom, as you watch this unfold on the republican side and you watch hillary with a spectacular 10 days, is there anybody going to be there? you start to see it crystallize and shift on one side and somebody who takes every punch and works and you have sat in

this chair and watched this for four decades. >> she's been at it for a long time. she's made a lot of mistakes in her public career. she's very skilled. remember, she was a lawyer and on the water gate commission investigating what was going on. he's got a style. he knew where he wanted to go. did anybody emerge from that in a way that will see the future. we'll sit around the desk and talk about it all day long. >> tom, you were asking earlier, i can get you that cameo on donnie's new show you were asking about on the u.s.a. network. it's going to be fantastic. great to see you. >> always a pleasure. >> coming up, our first

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we start with a guy we can blame for you. >> no doubt about it. john is the first reason i got involved in politics. unlike a lot of republicans, he did more than just run against something. bill clinton put a budget out and he didn't like it. he got on the floor with a democrat, he debated it and it was inspirational for me and i ran for office and john was a big inspiration. he even brings a national debt clock with him wherefover he go. >> joining us now, steve ratner. we have governor john kasich. >> john. [ applause ] >> all right. >> thank you.

have a seat. >> governor, thanks so much for coming. it's a good honor to have you here. good feel to have you here. let's talk about the campaign. this has been a campaign unlike any i've seen in my lifetime. >> i don't think that's right. we've seen a lot of things happen where people have popped up and we didn't hear from them again. >> but they're still up there. >> donald truch hmp has been up a hundred days in most poles. i guess the real challenge for you and other candidates is no not follow the noise. what do you do? how do you keep the eye on the prize in your goal? >> me myself, if that works,

great. look, i think that dond trump and the outsiders are touching a nerve. you and i really buy into the nerve, right. people are frustrated, sick of the no growth, tired of politicians not keeping their word. they're tired of all that. when we were there, we were product eviden productive. we got things done. since you and i left down there, things have gone undone. you can understand why people are frustrated. my father was a blue collar guy. i come from a democrat background. of course, they're going to be up tight and look for big change. i happen to think at the end people want somebody that can land a plane. what i tell people is look, i've done these things. i know what people's problems are, i know what to do about them. i've got to plan to do it again. i've done it three times. in washington balancing a budget

and providing economic growth. i've done it in ohio going from a state that's disintegrating to one that's doing well and i think i can help the country. these students are going to have cool lives, cool jobs and great families. >> let's talk about that. let's talk about much of the debt that's piling upright now as we talk on your debt clock. >> we're not going to pay for that. the reason trump is doing well is because republican politicians in washington have lied to republican voters for 10-15 years when we were there we balanced the budget because of you. balanced it for the first time in a generation, balanced it four times in a row. >> paid down debt. >> pass wealth reform and all these things we promised we were going to do. republicans won two big elections and yet, that debt clock keeps going up. why should i as a primary voter

believe that you're going to be different than any other republican that gets to washington and changes? >> well, because of the record, right. the best way you can judge what a person is going to do is on the basis of what they've already done. that's how we draft football players. if we look at the record they'll do great. same is true for me. joe, you remember, joe came in and in the changed time of 1994. in 1995 these were politicians that came in on a mission to get certain things done, balance the budget, welfare reform, cut taxes and some other things. they didn't really care about re-election. so we just went through the whole darn deal and we got it done. if you guys hadn't of been there to provide the high okay take, it probably wouldn't have happened. here's the tragedy. when i left there was a $5 trillion projected surplus.

same with you. i never dreamt you would blow it. here's the republican white house. >> we owned, we republicans owned washington d.c. and blew it. >> we didn't transform it. we could have taken the $5 trillion surplus, mika and created private accounts for all the young people so they would have had less social security and greater growth through the private economy. look, here's the problem. nobody wants to go to work on monday and make the employer mad and lose their job. there's all these pressures on people to spend. what i use to do and frankly, when i left washington i wasn't all that popular. i wasn't all that popular after my first year of governor. i was saying we can't do this anymore. if we don't have jobs, families

d disintegra disintegrate. it was disheartening to see them spend this money but we can do it again. no doubt we can do it again. i know how to do it. >> we're going to get into that and take a look at your record as governor. i'm curious. when you talk about you guys went in and served in washington, there was a mission. what do you think the mission is in washington now for your party and the other side? >> too much fighting, too much disagreement and not strong leadership. i just think they're wondering and frankly, the president who i rarely criticize because i don't agree with them on virtually anything, but i'm not into attack and all these people. getting the general election campaign and maybe the primary, all have things to say about people's rorecords. the president does not understand how to build leaders. and in the house and senate you don't have the leadership and so

they wonder. there's no direction down there right now. with a strong republican president or a strong president period that knows how to work with the congress and has a vision, i have total confidence you can do this. >> i think that's a bigger shock for me, john as when you look at when we were there and what happens today. when we were there, we had impeachment. it was a battle. bill clinton didn't like us and a lot didn't like him. yet, you were great friends with a lot of people in the clen ton administration. i was just commenting yesterday when joe biden had said republicans aren't the enemy, i said you know what, my best friends want to go back to washington and are democrats. they're liberal democrats. i go on the floor and hug maxine waters. she said you're losing votes for me in my district. get away.

>> we can fight without having to hate and there's too much of the really personal stuff that's going on and that blows it up. >> you can't blame. >> you can't blame the democrats or president for what's going on right now in the house with the house leadership. your party in the house and speaker boehner, i think a lot of us thought was a reasonable guy and now he's gone. >> you got to remember, we learned this, joe, i think, when i was there in the legislature. i'm the only person i can think of as federal legislature and governor, you cannot lead from the legislative branch for really any degree of effectiveness. and the reason that's true is because no one really has the ultimate stature to lead. what you have is kind of a wondering.

with a strong president you'll have these things united. i wouldn't say this if i didn't think it and i wouldn't run if i didn't think we could pull it together and run. you can't do it with republicans. we're going to have to work. suite up here is a former congressman. i said if i wen you got in you e down and help me. we have to have a degree of bipartisan buy in. it will straighten out. >> i'm worried we'll get a president that doesn't know what he or she wants to do, there's a lack of leader shirp and nship understanding of how congress works. i'll tell you one other thing i'm concerned about. i am worried that we have become a country where we are so interested in ourselves and less interested in living a life bigger than ourselves and being

a center of healing and justice and when you think about that, it effects everything in our society. the movies made, television shows, how we handle sports and politics. we are not living in this world just to take care of ourselves. we are living in this world for a higher purpose and we've got to reignite that flame and count on these young people because they're idealist and we are too. that's what we need in this country. with high hopes, but hope... doesn't work on wrinkles. clinically proven neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair with the fastest retinol formula available, it works on fine lines and even deep wrinkles. you'll see younger looking skin in just one week. stop hoping for results, and start seeing them. rapid wrinkle repair... ...and for dark spots rapid tone repair. from neutrogena®.

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called you superficial. >> i got invited right after 9/11. it was really serious. i remember flying in that day and how the pilot i knew i would tease with once said don't talk to me today. we have to fly in these vectors. it was deadly serious. so i go to this meeting and have no idea why exactly i was there. there was your father and a whole bunch of these former secretaries and me. so your father was very agitated with the fact that president bush had been saying we wanted bin laden dead or alive and we should stop using the language dead or alive. it makes the situation worse. -- was sitting in the front of the room and says to everybody, i agree. we don't want bin laden alive.

>> let's open up for questions. tell us your name and where you're from. >> i'm a lawyer from youngstown, ohio and bin laden alive. >> in ohio, my experience with the governor was very good. tax rates down, regulation repealed and as a consequence, the unemployment rate in that state is really, really low. here in new hampshire, if i may, the -- a lot of the things that we like in ohio, straight talk, not afraid to give a direct answer to a tough question, these things are kind of new hampshire aptitudes. why haven't you taken off like a rocket? did you get in the race too late? >> no, we got in the race at the right time. they said i couldn't get in the

race, we couldn't raise the money. it's been my whole life time. we're fine. we're very optimistic about where we are because we're building a very good grass roots effort. >> next question. >> hi, governor kasich. thank you for coming. you mentioned that israel is one of our major allies in the middle east. we're seeing this huge onslaught of terrorism. in more of a pointed act, what do you think america should be doing and in the larger context as well. >> i went to the netanyahu speech. it was the on time i sat on the floor of the house in 15 years. they said why haven't you been

back sooner? >> i said, well, when you graduate from high school, you shouldn't drive around the parking lot anymore. >> i go back all the time, i ask for money. >> i think to have talked about israel and the uprising and seeing them in the same vein is wrong. social media have gotten to i don't think people who have been enraged and attacked the israelis. at this point i don't think the interrogations are accurate. if a prime minister comes to see me, i'll have a cup of coffee with him in private if i don't want to do it in public. it just shows support we're not

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up next, 1 hours of hearings and even the head of the benghazi committee isn't sure think learned anything new.

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blumenthal. >> why is it that you only want mr. blumenthal's transcripts released. >> i'll have them all released. >> the survivors, you want that? >> no. >> the republicans and democrats sparred all day last year. the benghazi hearing that could on be seen as a tko for hillary clinton. it wasn't even a close call. and a new bloomberg poll out that solidifies what we said yesterday. mike barnicle, any time you have a major national figure that goes before congress, it seems whether through the year whether it's republicans or democrats, it's always the person behind the microphone that know what is they're doing that seems to make their questioners look like fools. and whether it was in the mid 80s with rehnquist and scalia

when they were trying to be nominated before the court or even oliver north, i should say especially oliver north, it's a congressional phenomenon, these panels seem to fall flat on their face and yesterday a very bad day for trey gowdy and the republicans. maybe some new evidence came out but it just didn't happen yesterday. >> i happened to watch and listen to almost all of the hearings. >> oh, god. >> don't ask me why. i know it's pathetic. >> no, i think it's beyond that. >> 11 hours the former secretary of state sat there. it was an amazing performance. the questioning was largely hostile, angry, disrespectful

toward her, towards her office, toward the casualties of benghazi that day. i harken back to committee hearings, you just alluded to them and i ended up thinking about halfway through the 11 hours that had this committee been employed to investigate the watergate break-in instead of sam irvin, a democrat, and howard baker, a republican, instead of sam dash, the democratic counsel and fred thompson, the republican counsel, who completed that hearing skillfully, legitimately, if this committee had been in charge of the watergate hearing, richard nexton wounext -- nixon would have finished his term. >> that would have been great. just joking, my friends on the upper west side. i actually wasn't joking but i have to say that so they keep

watching for the next two and a half hours. you had an awful lot of really respected conservatives saying -- at one time i think he said if he continues his questioning much longer, we might as well inaugurate hillary right after the hearings. >> and you heard that from a lot of conservatives. i could pick one from any paper. byron york said it was a very, very good day for hillary clinton. i think these hearings were -- if this was the display that the committee put together after these months and months and months of preparation, it wasn't very impressive. even hillary clinton wasn't sure they were talking about. and she was often watching back

and forth like it was a tennis match. within the committee they fought together about getting to the truth of what happened. >> the theatrics were tremendous. >> katty kay, you have members of the committee badgering and hillary can sit there. i agree with willie. there are a lot of questions that still should be answered. why did she ignore the calls for help, why did sidney blumenthal have her e-mail address? 11 hours and millions and millions in investigations? i would say if that's all you've got, it's not worse it. >> why did intelligent officials

miss the breakdown in security that was clearly happening in the run-up to the attack. and we didn't have much saying what's being done since the attack. we had a little bit of safe rooms. imagine the 9/11 investigation being conducted in the partisan fashion as it was done yesterday. we never would have found out nearly as much. if you went in thinking mistakes were made but largely thought on the side of hillary clinton, if you went in thinking there was a conspiracy and something was being covered up by her, you probably thought that, too. >> but trey gowdy was asked if

he really learned anything -- >> reporter: what was the most important new thing you learned today? >> i think some of jimmy jordan's questioning. well, when you say new today, i mean, we knew some of that already. we knew about the e-mails. in terms of her testimony, i don't know that she testified that much differently today than she had previously testified. i'd have to go back and look at the transcript. >> not a perry mason moment. >> you could see it on trey gowdy's face. he was frustrated with the way things were going. >> he was frustrated but very frankly, let's be honest, he has himself to blame. they could not decide what the conspiracy was. that was the problem. what did she do so wrong?

congresswoman robie seemed to think she didn't care. others thought it was the fact that the ambassador didn't have her e-mail address, which is not the way ambassadors communicate with the secretary of state. >> or hadn't been to the house. >> didn't have the address of the house. there were ors who who thought it was all in the e-mails. others thought it was about what was said after the fact. so you had a different conspiracy sort of popping up with every different member. it's like they had their own private narratives of what was going on. gowdy should have brought order to that and they did not. i think the central fact is we learned nothing about the people who were responsible for the people that were attacked.

>> there was surprisingly little about the decision to go into libya, surprisingly little about how that was carried out and what was the net gains and particularly cost of the entire operation, very little about the actual decision making on the security side, not just the intel, but the bureau, state department, what is normal operating procedure. was there anything like this that was normally outside of -- so 11 hours and very little about what what ostensibly -- >> do you still have questions? >> very little. these did not look like hair on fire, we really need extra help cables. i've been in the state department when ambassadors

seasoned in special requests. there was nothing out of the ordinary. it was dealt by two bureaus. s does not live for the level -- >> is it unusual for the ambassador not to have the personal e-mail of the secretary of state? >> no. >> for the record. >> this technical compound in benghazi. the quick reaction force r responded to the compound. they were there in 24 minutes. i don't know how you get through a massive crowd of turned out ton terrorists in 24 points. you've g >> you've got to defer to the guy on the scene.

course the department is going to defer to him about his decision to go to bends in the first place. but if this is to say the person on the seventh floor should have known more about it, that's not the way the state department works. >> from benghazi to des moines, a poll showed donald trump falling behind ben carson. this morning a new poll out that confirms this race, at least in the early state of iowa, has been turned upside down. >> it shows yesterday's poll was no fluke. brand new numbers in the iowa caucus show ben carson overtaking donald trump. the "des moines

register/bloomberg politics" poll shows ben carson in first. look at these favoritability, 84%%. about carson, very attractive were his favorite statements. joe, this echos what we saw yesterday in a quinnipiac poll. ben carson doing well with white evangelicals and doing well with women as well. >> we've been waiting for iowa

to return to form. pat robinson ended up in second place ahead of the sitting vice president. mike huckabee didn't win much after that. same thing with rick santorum back in 2012. so it it looks like iowa is returning to form but those are pretty massive numbers and that's going to be obviously the first race. in the long run it may be more important for how it impacts donald trump's campaign than how it impacts carson's campaign. there's an heair of inevitabili around trump. yesterday a trump campaign worker insulted iowa with a tweet and he had to come out and

apologize for it. >> this is the first poll that -- he's now trailing for the first time in about 2 asked if donald trump is a committed christian, 40% say they're not sure, 32% said yes and 28% say no. when asked on the basis of religion alone if it is acceptable to have a muslim serve as president, 69% of iowa republicans say it's unacceptable while 25% find it acceptable. 63% say they're less supportive of jeb bush because of his support of a path for a path to legal residence byily leap residence. >> i thou thi joe is right, that

iowa is could ben carson could win iowa, no question. the question is what else can he win? and we'll see. he's got a bunch of money. he's a smart man. he says things, especially about foreign policy but also just things about life that make no sense to a lo. >> willie, the next question you ask, looking at ben carson and donald trump, the next question is jeb bush who is 5% and tied with rand paul in iowa? at this point since we're not

july and taug. >> you look at these numbers and you wonder whether it not time for him at some point soon to pull up stakes in iowa, which is carson country and trump country right now. and actually start focusing on new hampshire. >> you go down the list, this is really a two-horse race receipt now between ben carson and. >> as votes peel away potentially from donald trump and others, who do they go to? >> what you're considering to see in the race if and whn if is

who is going tos is paul ryan's later, was. >> i work in health care. >> the society for research --

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>> look, i think he feels a sense of duty. speaker of the house is at least on paper and in history a powerful job. you can get a lot done from there. in his heart of hearts he'd rather stay chairman of ways and means. he made that clear. he'd rather, you know, do what he was doing and have a bit more time to spend with his family. you know, he says he's going to do this but, come on, speaker of the house? i'm sorry. it's a demanding job, no matter how you do it. >> if paul decide to adhere to the hastert rule, he will --

watching that panel yesterday, i don't sense they're tamping down. i think they are one of the more engage nd and feel more embold i would imagine he would want to give a bit to some of these conservatives. as a partisan, it probably doesn't help to have someone that rational and sane in the job. if he has to revert to the other stuff, to hastert rule, i agree, he'll fall a similar path that boehner's followed. >> coming up, we go back to the "morning joe" town hall we'll be right back. ♪ it's going to take a little time ♪ (vo) at the friskies playhouse, the cats and us are always busy.

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chafee will withdraw from

the race. are you surprised about that at all? >> no, he never registered. >> had a terrible debate. >> had a terrible debate. there was always the question is why is he running. it's not a surprise. it leaves the democratic field now with the big two, hillary clinton and bernie sanders and then martin o'malley still holding on and hoping to catch on in some way, though he has not yet. >> no money, no shot, good-bye lincoln. >> but to somebody who is still in the race, we'll go back to joe and mika's town hall with ohio governor john kasich. >> you know, mika, steve rattner

is here. >> thank god. >> and rattner brings charts. >> i think the ohio record is quite good. ohio depends a lot on auto jobs. auto jobs have come back very strong. how much credit to you give president obama for that? >> well, i mean, they did a bailout and that's fine and they're there. i'm glad they're there. am i running around pinning a medal on the president? i haven't done that. but i'll tell you what else i haven't done. i ran for reelection and didn't spend my team beating him over the head. >> you were there -- why don't i give you some credit, too. >> no, not but. >> i want john to say that one

thing president obama did was good. >> look, i'm not app obama hater here. i don't agree with him. okay, so he did well on that but you know what he didn't do well on? growing this economy, steve. he's a government interventionist, a big government guy. what about balancing the budget? what about cutting taxes? om going to tell you a story. i called one of the high level economic officials in the obama administration and said why don't you bring all those profits home from europe so we can have a real stimulus package. and he said companies may give it to shareholders. i said wouldn't that be a horrible thing. fine, i'll give him credit to enable -- i'm not against giving democrats credit for something good. we appreciate the auto industry is healthy. >> can we talk about your

economic plan for a minute? >> of course. >> you want to balance the budget, but you have a plan that includes massive tax cuts. >> the tax cuts are pretty reasonable -- >> they're not as massive as some others. >> right. and that's included in our plan to get the eight-year balance. >> but it includes revenue increases that you haven't specified. >> what do you mean? >> i think there was $ alook, i've been a candidate three months. not throw years like some, three months. what i have come out with is this is my plan. you freeze discretionary spending for eight years. >> can we pause on that? education, r & did, infrastructure. >> wait a minute. here's what we do. i'm going to ship transportation, infrastructure,

back to the states. you take your gas money, you send it to washington, the politicians divide it up, come up with a bunch of pork and then send less back to us. why p what do we need that for? let just keep it here in ohio -- >> you're tell mei xiang what i know? i have the robust intra shukt zchlkt when you go threw our stat states. >> there's millions of ways in which states can be very creative in terms of infrastructure, but i don't want to sen send my tax dollars to washington to have the transportation committee -- you knew about that committee. what did you think of it, joe?

>> we always fought against that committee. pork, pork and more pork. >> there's 104 k-4 program. who would you rather have run your elementary school? somebody in washington or somebody in new hampshire? i mean, that makes total -- i mean, you're for that. up got to be for that. >> let me give you another one. job training. why can't i control job training in ohio? why the heck are we doing job training out of washington? you people don't even know with we need. >> you're saying with the at the same time amount of moneys state will do better. >> as a governor, you can give me medicaid money, you can give me less and i'll do better than what we're doing right now. >> and joe. >> we've been there.

>> don't we know pendulum i have done all these things before. i didn't say we were going to crush nondefense discretionary, but i also think we need increased reform spending. i promise you that we could all sit down, we could take the edges or whatever want off of my plan and i could get you to agree because we can't keep doing that, okay? we can't keep doing that. [ applause ] >> one other issue, joe -- >> he's really irritating. we understand. >> on the other side of this is the issue of static versus dynamic scoring. what does that mean to these

people? it says one and one is three rather than one and one is two. you have to degree even arguing on this whole auto thing, we're doing better because of what we did. so there is an amount of dynamic scoring that is permissible. if you cut taxes, you're going to have more growth. the question is how much. i'm not going to dynamically score and make up numbers, but i do believe we should get some credit for unclogging the economy. my plan is also on independent energy, on stopping the flow of all these regulations. we need you to help us on the regulatory side. it's choking business. >> we're going to go to break. when we come back, we're going to be taking your questions when we return with governor john kasich. ♪ and i'll keep this world from dragging me down, gonna stand my ground ♪

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you find out what you did on your third interview but it gives you a chance to explain who you are and what you are. i mentioned earlier the recidivism rate in our prisons

25%. why is that? because we're giving people skills in the prison. because every life needs to be given a chance to be redeemed. and we're all made in the image of the lord and we have to keep that in mind. i tell you something, we'll get the religious community, i'll get joe down there to help with this. we will get criminal justice reform done. will you go? >> i'll go. i don't know if it will help. maybe i won't ask to borrow money for a couple of weeks. >> maybe i won't send you, i'll send gordon humphrey. >> it's fascinating what's happening on the right with not only the religious community but also libertarians and then you look at charles koch and dave koch and i guarantee there are a lot of republicans that listen to them when they call and right now that is their primary focus.

sometimes you would go to a meeting and it would be the most conservative members and the most liberal members and we'd walk into a room and look at each other and go what are you doing here? they both the the suspicion of an overreaching federal government. with criminal justice reform things seem to be coming together where individual liberty, not just defined by the far left or right but defined by the constitution is actually starting to matter a lot more. >> it won't be easy. it could be done. if i didn't think it could be done, i wouldn't tell you that. >> thank you. next question. >> hi. i'm alex. i'm a freshman from miami, florida. it's an honor to speak to all of you today. one of the things you fault the dysfunction in washington on is a lack in strong leadership both from the president and leaders

in congress. however, it seems like the situation can be described -- hough do you see your particular brand of strong leadership as resolving the ideological differences and is that not a little idealistic? >> only from the standpoint that i took ten years of my life to get us to a balanced budget and no one had done it since man walked on the moon and no one's done it since. same with the special interest groups, i took us from deficit to surplus. there were members of congress there that wouldn't vote for my bill if their life depended on it. so we went around with them and -- >> let me say one last thing to you. be idealistic. believe you can change the

world. can you. my father would never have believed that i am sitting here today, joe's family, mika's -- she was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. >> true. >> let me tell you one last thing, everybody here, i feel so strongly about this. if you change one life, you've changed the world. don't lose hope in who you are. >> thank you. >> hold on for one second. we're going to take a quick break. we continue our candidate series, we're in dartmouth, new hampshire. dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not?

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into the nation's most thriving city. vote peskin/lee. san francisco needs them both. aaron peskin for supervisor and ed lee for mayor -- the perfect balance for a better san francisco. walking past television sets with americans in the middle of war in foreign lands and muslim lands. right now americans are exhausted. yet we face another challenge in syria that's led to a refugee crisis, that's led to vladimir putin going into the middle east, that's led to instability across the middle east with our allies, not just in israel but

also our sunni arab allies. what do we do in syria? >> first of all, i served on the defense committee as a defense reformer yet a supporter of strong defense for 18 years. i spent my whole adult lifetime. i don't need to go to some country to learn. if i were to go to europe right now, my purpose would be to meet with the leaders over there to be able to reignite and restore the strength of our allies so we don't just go and be the policemen of the world, we need to go in a coalition. in syria, i favor a no-fly zone in the north on the turkish border and one on the south in the jordanian boarder. it would be a sanctuary for people. israel, they're our al llally, we've got something to say to

them, say it in private. egyptians, we don't like everything they do but they have basically the same directions as we do. the gulf states, we have pretty good relationship with them. the jordanians, we don't want to see the king fail. the iranians, there's all this baloney there. the problem with the iran deal is not just the nuclear side to these young people. young people, the demographics in iran, the problem is you take our foot off their economic throat and all of a sudden they got a lot of money to pass out. that angers and worries the arab friends offer there more than anything else is their ability to play a role so much in the middle east.

ukraine, ukraine, give them defensive weapons they want. they want to fight for themselves, fight for themselves. south china sea, put a carrier group through there. let the chinese know they don't own the china sea. in 1983 i voted against the reagan administration. isis, you got to kill them. they're a threat to our view of western civilization. but here's the other thing that i'd like to say about this. we should edonly go when our direct interests are at stake. afghanist afghanistan, i would never have raised the troop levels. i would have used special forces

to deal with the radical groups in afghanistan. i would have invaded initially but after that -- >> do you raise the troops there now? >> i don't think we have a choice now. you just can't go running out of that place. you say the morning people are exhausted. i don't think they're exhausted about the need for us to be part of the troops in isis. there's another part of this. leadership is not just this. what does everybody say today? leadership is trying to stay in touch with me but at the end, leadership is the willingness to walk a lonely road and to be unpopular. at the end of my first year in ohio, i was a very unpopular governor. now, at least temporarily, i'm a very popular governor. thank god to the people of ohio that they like me right now but it can change. i'm not giving you any rhetoric,

folks, who are out here. this is who i've been all of my life time. i fight for people who a lot of the times they got no voice and for special interest groups, good bless 'em but who gives a rip. >> we'll be right back with much more on "morning joe." this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business. ♪ ♪

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and welcome back, more on our candidate series in hanover, new hampshire, dartmouth college. >> by wait i see bernie. are you feeling the burn? >> student loan debt is in the excess of $1 trillion. do you plan to address that with your budget? do you think it's manageable? >> first of all, we have to stop the debt from going up. i'm not all of them, but you know what a college and university president wants to be tomorrow? a college and university president. and there is an essential unwillingness to take big risks on the campus. there's a whole series of things we need to do.

books. professors have to be sensitive. if you're in your opening classes, professors have to figure out a way to get you to purchase books in a bigger group, the costs are lower. when you're in high school, you should be able to be in a position to teak college credit courses, which we're doing in ohio. in terms of this massive debt, i'm not opposed to the notion of some form of public service that could allow us to work off some of the debt. not maybe all of it but some of it. i'm open to it and i'm thinking about it because this is a big challenge for all of you coupled with this. >> and i can tell you, governor kasich, you need to talk to president hanlon. i can't believe the question you asked because we were having a lunch with the president and i asked him that question. and the president sounded a lot

like you where he talked about the need to bring innovation to college campuses, talked about what he's doing. i think there are more and more presidents that are running institutions like this one that understand the importance of innovation. >> when students come into a university, they ought to be guided for what it is they want to be. there should be somebody with them virtually every day to make sure they're on the right course, they're completing their courses. this is an exciting opportunity for people in higher education to bring about a dramatic transformation. the opportunity is here now. you know what? if you have like me today, you need to help me because what you see here is what you get. there's no hidden agenda, i'm not going to put three scoops of ice cream in my mouth to get attention or stand on the roof to take my shirt off. >> you're not? >> i need you to help me. >> and that wraps up the first in our candidate series at

dartmouth. governor john kasich, thank you very, very much. very nice to have you. >> thank you. >> two big stories we are following this morning, the biggest storms we've ever seen. we're tracking hurricane patricia and a presidential candidate has dropped out. >> this category 5 store to wreak havoc, up to 39 foot waves could be crashing on the shore. landfall is expected around 7:00 p.m. easterne