drum beat of promotion to make those kind of sales. >> great to have you with us. you're going to be a regular around here. olivia sterns, thanks so much. >> that does it for this hour, thanks so much. "mtp daily" starts right now. ♪ >> if it's friday, it's the best ten-day stretch that hillary clinton's has had so far in the 2016 race. and tonight your first look at an msnbc exclusive. clinton's first sitdown interview in the wake of that benghazi committee confrontation. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. ♪ >> everybody's working for the weekend. happy friday, everybody. rachel maddow is wrapping up an

interview with secretary clinton as we speak, and she'll be here later this hour with an exclusive first look at her conversation. we'll also get reaction to clinton's testimony from somebody whose name was invoked a lot. former ambassador thomas pickering. he ran, he was one-half of the state department's own investigation into the benghazi incident. we'll also get a preview of the last october hurdle for team clinton, which also will provide a first glimpse of whether she now has a good ground game in iowa. it will be with her campaign communications chief, plus rick santorum is here and why he hopes past is prolog when it comes to santorum in iowa. but first, we start with hallie jackson in miami with the trump campaign. kasie hunt has the latest on a big jeb bush campaign cash crunch. and our own andrea mitchell has more on the clinton campaign's big week. we'll start on the republican side of the 2016 race where

donald trump has cruised for months at the top of the national polls. but is he now showing signs of engine trouble, or is it just about iowa? a new poll out today puts trump squarely behind former neurosurgeon ben carson. carson has surged ahead of trump. he's ten points up from his last poll standing there in august. the numbers are also striking when you look at the all important evangelical vote in iowa. trump support there hasn't moved since august. it's more been a spike for carson, as he's been criss-crossing the country on a book tour. it's on that tour today in kansas, where he reacted to these new poll numbers. >> i'm gratified by the fact that so many people are really paying attention to what i'm saying, because none of the things that i'm saying are wild, crazy things. they are very logical things, and if people really sat down and thought about them, rather than allowing themselves to be

whipped into a frenzy, i think most people would say, hey, that makes sense. >> hallie jackson is with the trump campaign today in a resort area of miami, where trump's going to be holding a rally at his own country club, with his name on it in a couple of hours. >> right. >> so, hallie, carson campaign getting a bump there. he's got his first two tv ads. how's donald trump handling not winning iowa right now? >> yeah, we're going to ifind ot tonight, i think. donald trump is set to speak in a couple of hours. i would be shocked if he didn't talk about the poll numbers. he loves to talk about the numbers when he's leading, he references specific polls when he's speaking to crowds. so we'll see what he says about this slippage essentially. he was on hugh hewitt yesterday when some of these numbers started coming out, and he said he was very surprised to see it.

he said i think we're doing better in iowa than the polls show. but you can see carson surging and trump slipping. and carson's picking off some folks who may be supporting trump, you mention the evangelicals, but also women too, chuck. >> when coming out of miami, trump was able to announce a new florida team, and what was surprising, some interesting names on that team, that happened to make both rubio and jeb bush, go, huh? >> right, exactly. putting me on the spot without my phone, and i'm blanking on both of those names -- >> suzi wild is one of them. and that's a big one. >> that's a huge one, especially when you talk about the bush and rubio teams. this is a sign that trump is seriously putting in organization in florida, which is really considered the territory of those other folks, his rivals, bush and rubio. trump feels like he's doing well here or will do well here, but it remains to be seen how he'll play in the primaries. florida is a key state in the

general, but the question is how he'll do. right now, i believe he's leading in a number of the florida polls, so we'll see. >> you got it. i can't wait to hear how trump reacts to the iowa poll numbers. he struggled yesterday when the first one came out. this is now two in a row. enjoy the rally. jeb bush's financial woes are growing. the campaign announced some salary cuts today for staffers across the board. trying to reduce the payroll by 40% and downicizi sizing headqus staff. despite a bunch of spending on tv ads, both by the right to rise super pac and the bush campaign itself, they've spent more money on tv ads than any other campaign so far, over $10 million, and he doesn't yet have a lot to show for it. campaigning today in virginia beach, the candidate himself reacted to the salary news, but gave no indication that he plans on slowing down his ad buys. >> this means lean and mean, and it means that i have the ability to adapt. >> okay.

>> and the circumstances when we started the election were different. i have not met a person that thought donald trump would be the front-running candidate. every dollar we can save in overhead is a dollar that goes on television, goes on radio, goes on media, goes on voter outreach. >> let's bring in my colleague here, kasie hunt. kasie, bush is talking about financial problems. this has never, in six presidential elections that a bush has participated in, i can't ever remember hearing a bush have to say something like that. it's truly astounding. >> it's stunning, chuck. if you remember when donald trump was just starting to rise in the polls through the summer, bush aides and even bush himself would start talking about really we haven't reached the advertising phase of the campaign yet, don't worry, don't worry, soon as we go up on the air, all of these problems going to go away. the reality is, they went up on the air and very little has

changed. if anything, it's gotten worse. you saw the numbers in iowa with the bloomberg poll. i've been talking to donors and sources today, if anything, in the last couple of weeks, the fund-raising numbers have gotten worse from where they were in late summer, into that disappointing report that just came out last quarter. so donors are really anxious about this and they're going into this big summit this weekend with the bush family in houston to try to get to the bottom of it. >> you know, there's going to be two debates in a 13-day span. we know there's a whole bunch of romney donors that are on the sideline. old bush donors that are on the sideline. they're looking for a horse to ride in the establishment lane, and it's not yet jeb. he's got to show prove of campaign life in the next three weeks, no? >> i think he does have to show some proof of life. while no campaign wants to put out a story like this, there's a lot of demand among existing donors for them to show that they're going to do it differently. there's a lot of anger at the current campaign manager.

a lot of people who feel the money is being misspent. so this is sending a signal, saying, we'll start spending your money differently. but the big concern, a lot of these donors could side with marco rubio, and there are a lot of people behind the scenes in bush world who view that size a big threat. >> they do, and both campaigns are nervous about the other. kasie, thank you very much. moving to the democrats, quite the ten-day stretch for hillary clinton, started with the strong performance in the democratic debate. and then joe biden decided not to enter the race. and then the long day on capitol hill yesterday. after that marathon hearing, clinton hit the trail full speed today and she announced her campaign has reached the 500,000 donor mark. >> a lot of people don't

realize, my campaign is being built by small donors. over 90% of my donations come from donors giving $100 or less. as of today, more than 500,000 people have donated to my campaign, and we're going to keep increasing that number. >> joining me now, andrea mitchell who was at the event in virginia. what a difference ten days make. den days ago, we were all wondering, boy, donors are getting nervous. there's hand-wringing, does she have what it takes, she's not bill. no, she's not bill, she's different. and it was pretty good the last ten days for her. >> we both know how unpredictable politics can be, tomorrow could be a different story. but today was a good day and she not only survived benghazi, but she got pretty good reviews. people are going to go after this point or that point, but the bottom line is, the committee collectively looked a lot worse than she did. and she kept her cool.

she didn't, you know, have any obvious moments where she couldn't remember stuff. she showed that she had a big command of the issues. you and i also both talked about the fact that the libya question and why did they get rid of gadhafi and look at the mess the region is now in, is a legitimate general election campaign issue, but she's not vulnerable on this issue in the primaries because bernie sanders supported it as well. >> are we going to look back at this ten days and say, it's hillary clinton thriving or her opponents not stepping up on the debate stage, or her opponents overreaching and being completely all over the place as the house republicans were yesterday on that committee? >> i think it could be the latter, but the bottom line is still that she could be the last person standing. and this could be the time when

we look back, that was the turning point in this campaign. campaigns are fragile creatures. so many outside action forcing events and small mistakes can blow up. we remember some of the things her husband said in pennsylvania right before the south carolina primary that really cost her a great deal as she headed south last time. so a lot of uncontrollable, a lot of variables here. going into tomorrow's jefferson jackson dinner in iowa which was so perilous for her eight years ago, she's looking pretty good. >> she sure is. one more hurdle, we'll talk more later in the show. andrea, thank you, we'll see you in a few minutes on nightly. coming up, what did the comm committee and the public learn yesterday from the hearing on the hill? i'll talk to former ambassador thomas pickering. and next, mexico preps for a hurricane of historic

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it's the most powerful hurricane ever recorded in the western hemisphere and it's about to make landfall in america. it's a category 5 storm and expected to hit the west coast of mexico, with winds up to 190 miles an hour. let's go to our meteorologist with the latest. bill, it's stunning to hear the numbers and to hear how you've described this all day. >> mind-boggling. these are the type of storms we hear about near like japan and the philippines. we don't get these this close to home in north america. this is just such a rarity. unfortunately, it's too late for the people in mexico. it has slightly weakened. you notice the eye, it's a pin

needle. our air force people are in the center of this thing. they just came back and told us the pressure is starting to rise, starting to weaken. and instead of 200 miles per hour, down to 190. but it's too late for these people in this area. they're all sheltering in this place. the way i try to put it to people, it will be the equivalent of like an ef-5 tornado, which is the worst kind of tornado going through for five hours, and on top of that, there will be like a tsunami of water. >> unbelievable. and it's going to be a lot of clean-up and this is going to be something i think the whole continent is going to have to participate in. >> they'll be lucky in puerto vallarta if it looks the same, even remotely. >> bill, i know it's going to be a long weekend for a lot of people in your business and we'll be pulling for the mexicans there. coming up, congressman trey gowdy says the state department's own benghazi review dropped the ball on the

investigation. the chairman of that board is hear to respond and react to secretary clinton's testimony. stay tuned. so what's your news? i got a job! i'll be programming at ge. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. (friends gasp) the app where you put fruit hats on animals? i love that! guys, i'll be writing code that helps machines communicate. (interrupting) i just zazzied you. (phone vibrates) look at it! (friends giggle) i can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs... you name it. i'm going to transform the way the world works. (proudly) i programmed that hat. and i can do casaba melons. i'll be helping turbines power cities. i put a turbine on a cat. (friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition!

we'll have thomas pickering in a few minutes. but time for the w's. starting with a who. it's lois lerner, the former irs official who became a symbol for conservatives of ineptitude and possibly illegal activity at the irs. she's not going to face any charges for, quote, targeting conservative groups. we learned today the justice department probe found substantial evidence of mismanagement, but no evidence to support criminal prosecution. the justice department is suspending its investigation into the matter. now the what. it's a little decision 2012 in october '15. mitt romney was quoted in a "boston globe" obituary for tom stenberg today where he seemed to take credit for, if not endorse obamacare. without tom pushing it, i don't think we would have had romney care. and without romney care, i don't think we would have had

obamacare. so without tom, a lot of people wouldn't have had health insurance. romney clarified his quote on facebook writing this, i oppose obamacare and believe that it's failed. it drove up premiums and took insurance away from people who were promised otherwise. and usurped state programs. now to the when. a veto from president obama, just the fifth one he's ever issued. it was overlooked in the storm of benghazi news yesterday. he vetoed defense bill. he said the bill had positive areas, but that it fell woefully short and he's afraid of messing around with the sequester on defense for now. and finally a where and why. tomorrow is the louisiana gubernatorial race where the top two will face off later in november. david vitter is the favorite in

this four-way race, but he's taking fire from all sides. look at this ad being run by a louisiana group called gumbo pac. it hits his record, but also a prostitution scandal. >> vitter, 16 years in washington, voting for huge spending, increased debt, supporting common core, and a prostitution scandal that showed a complete lack of personal integrity. >> as for the why, it shows there's strong opposition to vitter, even on the republican side. if vitter and west point educated john bell edwards emerge from this jungle primary, it's going to be interesting to see what vitter's republican opponents do, because they have been hitting him hard over the prostitution front. will they defect for the conservative democrat edwards, hold their nose and vote for vitter, stay home? vitter's favorablity numbers are in a down swing and he's not helped his cause by missing six

of the eight debates. going to be a doozy in louisiana. coming up, ambassador pickering, we'll talk benghazi, the state department, and yesterday's long hearing. stay tuned. ink about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. plan well and enjoy life... ♪ or, as we say at unitedhealthcare insurance company, go long. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company... always have a plan. go long. across america, people like badominique wilkins...er ...are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza®.

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right out of the gate, chairman trey gowdy sought to justify his committee's existence, by criticizing the investigations that had come before. chief among them, the accountability review board, the independent panel that was convened by secretary of state hillary clinton in the wake of the deadly 2012 attacks. >> the arb never interviewed secretary clinton. the arb never reviewed her e-mails. and secretary clinton's top adviser was allowed to review and suggest changes to the arb before the public ever saw it. that is not independent. that is not accountability. that is not a serious investigation. >> well, of course that did not sit well with the ranking member.

elijah cummings came to the defense of thomas pickering, a career diplomat who served for four decades. >> there's an 83-year-old gentleman named ambassador pickering. when there have been attacks on the arb, that's like attacking him. and at 83 years old, i refuse to sit here and let that go by. >> i'm joined now by the chairman of that benghazi accountability review board, former ambassador thomas pickering. welcome to "meet the press dail daily". >> great to be with you. >> let me ask you about chairman gowdy's criticism of arb. is it a fair critique that it was an incomplete investigation because you didn't interview secretary clinton and you didn't interview some key people? >> no, not at all. we were charged by the congress to find the people who had made the decisions and we took it one step further, we found the people who supervised the people who made their decisions.

and we identified those people to the secretary of state in accordance with the charge in the law and the material that accompanied the law when it was passed in 1998. >> it's interesting you bring up 1998. this was packed in the wake of the embassy attacks in east africa back then, and the first ever arb report, based after that, was about embassy security. and i'm curious, how much do you feel, as if, when you read that first arb report, and compared it to the one you and admiral mullen ended up coming up with, there are a lot of similar recommendations to the two. do you feel as if the first recommendations for the first arb were not implemented? >> they were not fully. and one of the principle recommendations with respect to the construction of new embassies and consulates be implemented. in that regard, the congress was not able to provide the funding necessary to carry out those

programs, which are large and expensive. but they were geared, in 1998, to replacing as rapidly as possible, the most vulnerable u.s. embassies and consulates. that did not take place, principally because of the shortage of funds over time. we thought our job would be to reinvigorate it and hopefully reinspire the congress to do what was required to make that happen, to protect americans overseas, in the aftermath of the tragedy in benghazi. >> what did you learn at yesterday's hearing? >> i didn't learn a lot new. i heard a lot and saw a lot, and i thought, in effect, that once again, because i've watched this very carefully, i didn't see or hear anything that i thought would in any way radically change our report. i've always said that if there was new information, i would be the first to take it into account and see whether, in fact, in my own thinking, there's no arb any longer, it would have changed any of my

recommendations, but perfectly prepared to accept the fact there might be new information, that we did our report in the space of three months. we saw all of the people that we knew, who were involved in the attack on benghazi, that we could get access to. and interestingly enough, we kept records of what they had to say. we did not keep transcripts, because we were not a court of law, nor a prosecutorial arrangement. we were there to look at the security first and foremost, what went wrong with the security, and what we would recommend, in fact, to make that better. >> how accountable should secretary clinton be held for her role in this? >> well, he's already held herself accountable as the leader of the department. but back in 1998, the congress said that was not enough. that what people needed to know was where the decisions were made. as i said a minute ago, who made them, and then the secretary of

state having had those people identified to her, would proceed with whatever action the state department and she felt was appropriate. >> and do you think she could have made different decisions that would have prevented this tragedy? >> i don't believe so. and we reviewed that very carefully when we made the decision we didn't believe she was involved in the security part, and therefore, we should not have to interview her. >> all right, ambassador pickering, sorry we had to cut it short. nice to talk with you sorry. >> appreciate it very much. up next, rachel maddow gives us a preview, just rushed from her studio after her sitdown with hillary clinton. and we'll have the clinton campaign to talk about what's going on in iowa tomorrow. but first, the cnbc market wrap. >> stocks in a rally, the dow climbs 150 points. the s&p adds 22, the nasdaq

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back with more "mtp daily," it's been a big week for hillary clinton's campaign, msnbc's rachel maddow has the first sitdown with secretary clinton after both that high-stakes benghazi hearing, and her first reaction to joe biden deciding

not to run. in fact, we have an early clip and here is hillary clinton's candid reaction to joe biden's decision. >> now that he's said that he's not running, are you jealous? [ laughter ] >> that's a really good question. >> i mean, he doesn't have to go through all this. >> he doesn't have to go through it. bless his heart. look, i'm a huge joe biden admirer, a friend, a former colleague, and i know this was an excruciating decision in a time of just such pain and grief for him and his family. he is liberated, and i don't think history is done with him. there's a lot for him and the president to keep doing in the next year and a half, and i want to build on the progress that they are leaving behind. i feel very strongly about that. i want to go further, but i think the real point of this election is whether or not the republicans are going to be able to turn the clock back and rip

away the progress that has been made. >> rachel joins me now. just what i saw there, boy, that's a confident hillary clinton right now. >> yeah, and i half expected to have her have to be kind of wheeled in on a hand truck or something after 11 hours. >> right. >> and then another speech this morning and another big rally today in virginia. i was exhausted just watching 11 hours, but she just seems not only together and energized, but as you say, really, really confident. >> and i'm just curious, progressives have been, you know, there's been sort of this, oh, all right, they'll eventually be okay with supporting hillary clinton. that was the attitude ten days ago. did everything change when republicans just came at her yesterday? i mean, did the best thing happen to her for her connection with the base of the democratic party, trey gowdy? >> i think it helps. it helps in two different ways. first of all, when you see the enemy of my enemy is my friend. if you start seeing republicans line up and take aim at her, i

think democrats, even liberal democrats, no matter who it is, get their backs up and want to protect that person. that's just a dynamic that would apply to any politician. i think the thing that's what's happening specifically with her, though, is that republicans keep giving her their best shot, and she keeps winning. i think that whatever you expected of that hearing yesterday, i think the republicans probably would greatly prefer that it had happened behind closed doors. i know why she wanted it to be on open camera even after 11 hours. they didn't get anything they wanted and she came out of it stronger and that display of strength goes beyond. >> what will we be surprised to hear you ask her? >> i followed up by saying, joe biden is not running, but if he were, it would be to protect the obama legacy. she went on to talk about how

president obama has approached republicans and how she would be different. i think liberals and republicans are going to be very interested to hear it and i think it's really new ground. so i think people should tune in for that. >> there you go. don't you like writing your own teases? that's what i want to do sometimes. >> i'm too verbose to properly tease stuff, i basically just go, watch, you'll like it. >> thanks, rachel. you can see the entire interview at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. speaking of the clinton campaign, they have a chance to cap off what is the strongest ten-day stretch they've had so far tomorrow night at the famous jefferson jackson day dinner in iowa. might be the last time it's called the jefferson jackson day dinner. we'll talk about that later. but it's not just any dinner. it's known as a primary setting at this point in the cycle for big moments and for proof of life about your iowa campaign. it was at the jj dinner in 2007

that barack obama marched in with a fired-up crowd and seized the spotlight from clinton back in 2007. arguably it's where he turned his campaign around the first time. so can hillary clinton stop a similar sensation for bernie sanders this year? i'm joined now by the communications director for the clinton campaign. welcome. >> it's my first time on, just wish i was in d.c. >> we do too. is tomorrow going to be a show of force by the clinton campaign? >> i think we've been doing well in iowa. we've built a good organization over the course of the last six months. so i think people in iowa feel like we've done -- she's put a lot of work into not just spending a lot of time with caucus goers, but building an organization. the iowa jj, it's the kind of speech, i was talking to the press about it today, and sometimes the press will expect what kind of news are you going

to make in the speech? and this is a speech that is really for the people in the room. it really is a speech, it's her best opportunity yet in iowa to make her case for why she wants to talk about all of -- everything that she's heard from iowa voters, very literally, what she's heard them tell her their concern about the problems that keep them up at night. she's got real solutions to them and she wants to prove to them that she's the person in the campaign that can make a difference in their lives. that she's the person who will hang in there and fight for them and who will get something done. so i wouldn't expect a lot of new news. this is her making her best case to iowa as to why she's going to be the person who's going to do that for them. >> and we've talked a lot about the benghazi hearing, but there was another hearing on capitol hill and it was with the director of the fbi. let me play you a clip and get

you to react on the other side. >> the director of the national security agency has said that former secretary of state clinton's private e-mail server would be a sought-after target for a foreign intelligence agency. do you also believe that a foreign intelligence agency, particularly an adversary's could benefit from acquiring and exploiting sensitive and classified information of a top u.s. government official? >> this is one that i'm not going to comment on. i'm confident we have the people and the resources to do it in the way i believe we do all our work, which is promptly, professionally and independently. >> let me just ask you simply, how concerned are you about this fbi investigation? >> we're not concerned. the fbi is doing a security review. they're looking into -- they had concerns because there is e-mails on her server and they consider that to be sensitive information because it was the e-mails from her state department work, and they -- we want to cooperate with that,

they want to make sure that it's been properly stored, and that's what the security review, so we've cooperated with them and done whatever we need to to help them finish that process. the justice department has been clear that what she has done in terms of deciding to use a personal e-mail account, even though she said it was the wrong choice, and she would have done it differently, that it was allowed and she was certainly within her own bounds to decide which e-mails were business related and which ones were personal and decide which ones to keep and not. but we're very happy to cooperate with them on the security part of this. >> how important is this ten-day period to the campaign overall? do you believe this ten-day period could have been fraught with peril and could have up-ended the campaign. >> i have learned that every ten-day period of the campaign can be fraught with peril. this one, we've had a good ten

days. it's great to see a bump in public polls for her. i'm sure those polls will continue to move around. i think the thing that was most important about those last ten days is what happened at the debate, which is, you know, this is the first time she's on the stage with other candidates in that forum, with a big audience, and what we saw is that when she's talking about issues and the problems that she's going to address in people's lives, she moves voters and she does so significantly. now, i'm sure that polls will go up and down, but we know when she's on that stage and able to talk to the voters about the issues that they care about, that she moves people and that's important to know going into the next few months. obviously, we felt she did great yesterday. it was too bad that the committee chose to not focus much of substance there, and it did get pretty political, but we're really proud of how she handled herself. i think people look at that performance and say, that could be our next president. >> jennifer, i know it's been a wild october. >> yeah. >> and there's still a week to go. so we will see you.

>> a good month. look forward to seeing you there. >> fair enough. still ahead, my one-on-one with presidential candidate rick santorum, the last republican to win iowa. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch,

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>> four years ago, a familiar scene, a slew of candidates running for the republican nomination, with yet another outsider at the top of the polls, and when the iowa caucuses rolled around four months later, a political underdog, and an outsider, eeked out a win. >> game on! [ cheers and applause ] >> what wins. what wins in america are bold ideas, sharp contrasts and a plan that includes everyone. a plan that includes people from all across the economic spectrum. >> it was four years ago that

former pennsylvania senator rick santorum remained at the bottom of the republican field for much of the odd year and found a way to a stunning victory and became the second to last republican standing in 2012. well, now santorum is hoping that same playbook will give him another shot at the nomination, and will catapult him back into the top tier of the race. joining me now, the former republican senator of pennsylvania and two-time presidential candidate, rick santorum. senator, welcome. >> good to be with you. >> i'm going to do a flashback for people here, because it's interesting. the october 2011 des moines register poll and the -- we'll show it here, herman cain on top. mitt romney, ron paul at 12. you were sitting at 5%. fast forward four years later, the current poll has ben carson on top, donald trump in second. you're a little bit lower at 2%. why do you believe history will repeat itself for you in iowa? >> yeah, i do, because in the end, the folks who end up voting

in these caucuses, about 20% of the republican end up voting the caucuses. might be a few more this time. but these are folks who care deeply about the country and the issues that are important to conservatives. it's a conservative group of folks in iowa and they care deeply about issues, and right now, i don't think they're at all focused on issues. the fact that we've had more limited debates, it's been more entertainment than a political race. when we get to january and february, i think that's going to change. i think issues are going to become vitally important, like, for example, energy. etha nol. that's an issue we haven't even heard talk about. it's a huge issue in the state of iowa right now and no one's talking about it. >> you were powered by faith-based voters in iowa in 2012. right now, i've spent a lot of time following ben carson's campaign and looking at the

numbers, he's got a connection with the same voters. how do you pry those voters away from him and back to you? >> i would make the argument that four years ago, herman cain had that same connection at this point in time. and before that, michele bachmann had that same connection. so the answer is, once people get a chance to really understand where the candidates are on the issues, that's really important. and again, we have not had that discussion in this debate to really get down and understand where people are on the issues that differentiate and they start thinking about, okay, who -- when i walk in there and actually vote in a caucus, who do i really want to be the president of the united states? not who am i excited about because they're going to shake things up. but who is going to sit in the oval office, i think things will change. >> our last poll we asked this question of republicans. how would you feel about a person who is not a politician running for president?

enthusiastic and comfortable was only 34%. i guess, you know, a politician was kind of low there. they don't want an elected official. do you feel like your title is a problem for you, senator? >> i am sort of the best of both worlds. i have experience on how to get things done and a track record. i have been outside this mess for a long, long time almost ten years. and experienced the same frustration as someone seeing how washington is completely dysfunctional. to have a record of shaking things up and getting things done it's a nice combination of outsider and insider that i think we are talking about in the next several months. >> it does strike me when i hear donald trump when he does talk about economic policy or other candidates i feel as if you were there. you were talking sort of to the working class republican primary

voter before the establishment was. you have been there and sort of combined that evangelical wing of the party. but they are not turning back to you. are you worried that they have already said i'm not trying the same guy again because he didn't win? >> i would just say patience is a virtue. isrr one thing to say that someone is mouthing the words that i have been speaking for years. it's another thing when you look at the policies putting forward and their record as to whether any of that comports with what they believed in over time and what they have tried to do in their lives. i think that when you get down to caucus voters in iowa these folks are going to do their homework and will start scrubbing the candidates and start understanding the positions they have on issues. it's not just going to be --

it's not going to be a heart throb type of romance. they are going to do their before they put the ring on they are going to do their vetting. i feel very good that when it is all said and done they will take rick santorum home to mom. >> what could republicans have done better at the benghazi committee yesterday? >> one thing i think is important is just try to stay focused on what is important instead of what i saw there seemed to be a lot of trails that i'm not sure why they went down. i'm sure there were important points made particularly with what hillary clinton knew the night of the attack was clear from messages to her family and other world leaders that she knew the nature of the attack and the fact she didn't communicate that i think was a very important thing. also, the request for security

and the fact they weren't heated. finally, i don't know, i have never been a secretary of state but when you only have a couple hundred folks who are ambassadors and one is under attack i would think i would want to be in charge. these are my people. this is something i have been charged to take responsibility of. at least i would have been right there trying to see what i could do and have real-time understanding and involvement in dealing with that situation. so to me those were the three things i left uncomfortable with. frankly, i would have hoped a focus on that, those things probably would have been the best way to approach it. >> i'm going to leave it there. hope to have you back next time we will talk less about the state of the race and more about the issues. >> thanks very much. up next we cap off the day's big news and the week's big news and preview the weekend in the lid. this is my body of proof.

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time for the lid. joining me is eliana johnson and perry bacon. let's talk jeb bush today announced layoffs. the last time a candidate started talking about cutting back staff it was scott walker and he wasn't in the race long enough. i don't believe jeb bush is not

going to be in the race in three weeks. >> we know he is struggling and not just about -- his memo talked about the surprise by donald trump running. i think the lane with chris christie and marco rubio. he's the outsider and not the establishment candidate. ru rubio might be. he struggled to establish a base. >> what is the issue? what do you think? >> i think to take a step back from the current problems the fundamentals are really tough. he is old when republicans want new. he is boring when republicans want exciting. what he had to counter those things were a lot of money. for all people who think money plays too big a role i think the jeb bush --

>> do you believe the establishment will rally around rubio? >> we are seeing momentum towards rubio right now. what is interesting in this election is that the outsiders seem to be rallying around donald trump and the establishment is tremendously splintered and we have seen the establishment rally and the outsiders splinter. it is definitely a different sort of year. >> we are showing live pictures of marco rubio. it is the next debate. there is a bunch of donors still on the sidelines. that's why they haven't coalesced. is this debate the next debate really rubio versus bush and the winner gets the donors? >> i think the donors are right to be undecided. rubio has been fine. >> agree. >> i think the donors are right. maybe wait until after iowa and new hampshire. ben carson and donald trump are

unlikely real presidential candidates. >> very quickly, ben carson, can he be the nominee? >> i don't this can so. i think if jeb bush has too much establishment support ben carson has zero. >> i'm going to leave it there. and so it goes. we'll be back monday. if it's sunday it's meet the press. i will have the benghazi pair of gowdy and cummings and ben carson. richard wolffe picks up our coverage. breaking right now tens of thousands are evacuated as kirk patricia, the strongest hurricane ever recorded gets close to making landfall as a category five. the end of a rough week for house republicans as hillary clinton comes up