>> if new owner of a golf course finds the original name a blessing and a curse. was changing it a fair way to attract new customers? and warby parker continues to grow business by disrupting the eye glass industry. lessons you can profit from coming up next on "your business." >> american express open can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order, or expand your office. for those who constantly find new ways to grow on every step of the journey american express open proudly presents "your business" on msnbc.

hi everyone. i'm jj ramberg and welcome to "your business", the show dedicated to helping you grow your small business. when you are launching a company you typically get the chance to build your brand from the ground up. there is flexibility when you're new to the market. if you opt to buy someone else's business you inherit everything that comes with it. one entrepreneur decided a name change was in order when he bought and overhauled his pennsylvania golf course. he knew that the best way to attract new customers to his business was to give it a new identity. >> it's a tight rope to walk along. it is nice to have a true identity that can be recognized.

>> it's a business milestone that was six years in the making. three lakes golf course in pittsburgh, pennsylvania is finally a brand of its own. >> what we were fighting, hard, hard fight, convincing the public that they could come here every day more people understand that. >> arthur now owns this 18-hole facility and anyone is welcome to play a few rounds now that it's public. it's quite a change from three lakes former life. it used to be the members only golf course. >> there was a blue collar country club, a lot of bankers, mid income people in here. it was a school teacher and a wife that had extra money and they wanted to play private golf courses. >> as a member hawk knew the name was familiar to many. not only was the course called alcoma but so is the neighborhood. after 80 years the club faced an uncertain future.

>> like a lot of golf kourlss it was going out of business. as soon as the membership dropped below 225 the board of directors, they waited too long. >> this entrepreneur had a plan to revive it when he bought it. hawk needed to break with the pack, create a new identity and open the course's doors to anyone. >> the real reason was to tell the public that hey, you can come here, draw from a larger base of people. >> once the sale was finalized in 2007, the reinvention started with a series of improvements. arthur's daughter megan manages the location. >> we had to remodel three of the areas overhaul the cart paths and the map, the layout of the course. there wasn't even a map on the score card. >> when i bought it there wasn't a bathroom for ladies on the first floor. we made it more public friendly. >> despite the changing landscape and addition of things like new tees and league play the brand didn't disappear right away. it took two years to even

consider swapping the name. >> luckily we had that period where we hadn't changed the name yet when it was still alcoma and there wasn't this huge influx of new people trying to navigate the campus here at three lakes. had we changed it immediately out of the start i'm not sure we could have handled all of that play. >> employees liked the idea of a new name too. office manager janine says customers were confused. >> i answer the phone every day so a lot of people would call and didn't realize it was a public course. and we thought well, if we change the name, then now it's going to be okay. people are going to know we're a public course. >> arthur said not everyone he talked to was on board. >> people arguing with me. said you have to leave it that way. you have to leave it that way. >> in an effort to get the word out three lakes launched a contest. they wanted to engage the customer. >> we thought really including the public into the name change was the way forward.

holding the competition really made everybody start talking about oh, alcoma is going to change their name. what should the name be? >> megan knew it couldn't be any brand either. it needed to be easy to understand, while also resonating with players. >> you need identify with your customers and see how will this name affect their decision making. will it make them feel proud, will they want to wear a 3 lakes golf course shirt? is the logo cool enough that it says golf to people and they want to wear it on their person or their bag. >> employee submitted the winning name. that's when the push began. the transition started slowly by using the old and new names on printed material. megan was hesitant to make a clean break from the alcoma brand. >> we worked flew with it a tag line on our publications, 3 lakes golf course formerly alcoma at the beginning until

they established our true identity. >> another campaign focused on reminding old and new customers that 3 lakes was carrying on a local tradition, the course didn't change, just the name. >> we start add campaign called the roots stayed the same. so we would put 3 lakes golf course across the top, then have a layer of grass and then in the root have alcoma. i think it helped customers feel comfortable with the transition. >> while it's taken some time, people are finally embracing the switch. this year has been the year that actually people go oh, 3 lakes, they know where 3 lakes is now. >> it didn't matter how long the rebranding took. arthur says making a major move was necessary. >> if you want to distinguish the ownership changing, change the name of it. the easiest thing to do. >> as everyone at 3 lakes discovered, the old name keeps popping up in conversations. because some old habits are just hard to break. >> if somebody says alcoma i

don't correct them but i immediately follow it with 3 lakes. >> warby parker disrupted eye wear starting as an e-commerce site. two years ago they opened their first store in new york soho district. since they have grown to a dozen locations and they are a shining example of how to build a brand. when classmates neil, andrew, jeffrey, and david launched warby parker in 2010, it shook up the world of prescription eyewear selling products well under the price of typical fashion glasses and doing it all online. >> we said well, what if we create our own brand, design glasses ourselves, work with manufacturers and stel them directly to consumers through a website we could offer the same quality glasses that cost 500,

$600 but for $95. >> the idea took off. and for two years they sold almost exclusively online. they didn't have stores in the business plan. their goal was to change an industry through internet sales. but what they soon learned surprised them. >> what we found was that people really wanted to shop and experience the brand in person. >> they are not alone. internet retailers across industries are finding that while the internet is great to start an idea, ultimately there will always be consumers who want to do things the old-fashioned way. touch and feel them before putting down the plastic. e-commerce site piper lime opened a soho new york location in 2012 and the men's apparel company now has 20 shops around the country. other successful e-commerce sites like bobble bar have invested in pop-up stores in major cities. >> consumers are never going to do all shopping on line. they are not going to do it all

off line. the best brands are focused on the best possible customer experience are going to have a presence in both. >> problem is, opening a store takes money, and planning. in the beginning this was not the focus of warby parker. so, they sort of did it on the fly, inviting people over to neil's apartment and laying frames out on the dining room table. today, things are much different. with a solid success story and funding warby parker expanded to 15 brick and mortar stores. the crown jewel is their 2,000 square foot flagship store on one of the most coveted blocks in new york city, calling it just a store, though, does not do it justice. the two founders who are still running the company neil and dave, decided that if they were going to move into brick and mortar they were going to do it in their own style. that's meant throwing some of the traditional thoughts of retail out the window. warby parker short but vibrant

history is front and center and coveted shelf space is giving to showcase books from independent publishers. >> traditional retailers walk in and like neil, you're crazy. what are you doing wasting all of this selling space. we don't look at it on a square foot basis like that. it's sort of what is the experience that we want somebody to have. and if the we can have retail be a form of entertainment, if we can build community through this store, and we think we're going to sell more. >> a photo booth to share different looks with friends, glasses out in the open instead of behind locked cases, and a tablet check-out instead after traditional register are some of the ways their physical store helps fans i want act with the brand in ways they can't on line. the stores have also helped the e-commerce site reach a new customer base of shoppers reluctant to buy glasses on the internet. >> we're finding that once people buy their first pair of

glasses from one of our stores or showrooms the second, third, fourth time they are buying from us they are doing so on line. >> would this have been successful if you started on the store and skipped the online part or launched simultaneously? >> that's a good question. we would have had to do a really big launch to have had lines out the door and over 4,000 people each weekend for it to have worked as it has now. i think launching online allowed us to get a large following much faster than if we had just had bricks and mortar because you are limited by geography. getting a bank loan is still a challenge for many small business people but there are lots of other lenders you can turn to. to explain is jordan, a personal finance expert, author and editor at money answers.com. more than 35 years of providing financial expertise.

we are happy to mine that expertise. great to meet you too. so we spent many years on this show sort of lamenting how hard it is to get a bank loan. >> right. >> we talked about all kinds of ways that you can get money. factoring, go to lending club.com for instance. >> there is a new one. there are clearing houses that will connect you the small business to lenders who you don't normally get to see. for example, hedge funds want to earn a decent return, they will lend to small businesses if you meet their underwriting dry tearia. >> there is no way i as a small business -- >> not going to the hedge fund directly. >> nor do they want me to. >> they wouldn't. the hedge fund wants to make it easy. here are the underwriting criteria we're looking for, the clearing house talks to the small business and makes sure they neat criteria and once they do they present them to the hedge fund and say everything you asked for these guys have it. will you make the loan. >> so who -- do i ever talk to

the hedge fund? >> probably not directly. >> got it. >> that's why the clearing house is doing it for you. in many cases they can get you money you can't get on your own. what they are doing is based on cash flow. that's the key thing. it's not based on collateral. banks typically lend on collateral. what could we see if you don't pay us back. factories, inventory, that stuff. a lot of businesses, service businesses do not have inventory, either any or you know, not very much. so cash flow is the key. what they are going to do is look at your bank statements, see what cash flow you've got on a regular basis. >> i have one more question before the criteria. who am i paying? who am i paying interest to? >> the loan would be with the hedge fund or the lender is going to be. the clearing house is basically like a middle man to -- >> dating service. >> dating service. the match.com of small business lending. >> and the hedge fund or whatever knows that i am prequalified. >> correct. >> because this clearing house has looked at the criteria.

so let's go through the criteria. bank statements. >> the bank statements. they are looking to see you have good cash flow, able to pay the loan back. the first thing what your cash flow is on a regular basis and look at your bank statements last four or five months and make you've got the money to pay the loan back. second thing they actually want to see your tax returns, what you have actually reported. don't want to fool around. make sure it's legitimate. tend not to fool around with their tax returns so that's another. they also want to check your credit, business and your personal credit. the business is typically dun & bradstreet, equifax credit report. when you stein for a business you're going to do a personal guarantee. so you're going to -- that's why they check your personal. if the business goes under they go after you permanently. they check business and personal credit. they want to see what facilities you have. if you're in an office, see your lease, for example. or if you're in a factory, see your lease. >> what size loans are we talking about here? >> typically 50,000 to 100,000

or more. it depends on the amount of cash flow the business has. if the cash flow is more i'd say the maximum maybe about 150 to 200,000. something like that. but these are not million dollar loans but small businesses typically don't need million dollar loans. >> i'm watching, this seems interesting, i need $100,000 there is a clearing house. >> there is. >> where? >> it's called company lending solutions.com. and they have access to all these different lenders out there that you don't know who they are but they are the ones who are going to do the underwriting. >> what questions do i need ask? >> make sure it's a legitimate lender and the interest rate is not ridiculous either. the hedge fund is going to want a return on its money. remember, cash is at zero these days so if they earn 5 or 10%, they will be happy. >> how do interest rates compare to the i get a bank loan? >> those -- bank loans for the most part are collateralized.

they want secured loans, that's why the interest rates may be lower because if you don't pay they are going to take your factory or inventory. these tend to be unsecured in that there is no inventory. so that's why the interest rate may be higher. >> a little or a lot? >> maybe 10% or something. depends on the situation, your credit. >> jordan, thank you for stopping by. >> thank you, jj. travel can be a necessary but tedious part of running your small business. here now are ink.com's smart habits of effective business travelers. one, choose one airline and stick with it. the more loyal a customer you are the better you should expect to be treated. two, sign up for tsa precheck and global entry. these programs can dramatically reduce the time you spend in security lines. three, pay attention to flight delays when booking. take a look at a specific route's past performance. skipping flights or airports

delayed more than a half hour can pay off. four, ship what you can. now that airlines charge for almost every checked bag there is a good chance shipping your stuff will be cost competitive with a $40 bag fee. five, select your seat late. choose seats where you won't be next to another passenger by waiting inle the last minute to pick where you sit. coming up, what investors look for in growth companies and the pros and cons of outsourcing human resources. today's elevator pitcher wants you to stop and smell the coffee. but will our panel buy his special take-out lids for hot drinks? our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan.

we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. amex helped me buy the inventory i needed. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. another step on the journey. will you be ready when growth presents itself? realize your buying power at open.com today's your biz selfie from slippery rock, pennsylvania. who owns courtesy by koko a design company. now, why don't you pick up your cell phone and take a selfie and send it to us or you can tweet to the@msnbc your biz. today's elevator pitcher has sold millions of his special hot

beverage cup lids. let's see if the judges are ready for coffee talk. les is president and ceo of business consultant firm and marketing and sales expert michael support the author of the new book "steal the show." >> hello. my name is craig bailey. you drink coffee from a paper cup and a sflid i do. my first cappuccino was this amazing in shop open mug experience. it was so good. the next day i went back to the same shop, i ordered the same drink and i had to go in the car, paper cup and the lid, it wasn't the same experience. it was terrible. and that is why i created foam aroma. typical lids block your senses so you captain fully enjoy the coffee like trying to taste your food if you have a cold. with foam aroma you inhale and you feel that foam. for three years i've been whole saling to distributors in

america, canada and europe selling 9.5 million lids, we want to increase inventory, develop new products and to do that we're asking for $450,000 in exchange for 20% equity. oh, one last thing. consumers are surprised with that amazing experience, they, too, will smile and go back for more. >> all right. thank you, craig. hey guys. i want two numbers. 1 through 10. the product, and then the pitch. interesting. how does it work? there is an extra hole i can smell it? >> the aroma and it allows the fluid to flow, you don't have to pucker up on it and draw it in. the foam in the cappuccino. >> there is a hole at the top to drink and a hole to smell from. let's go to les. >> michael the is writing a book here. our author. i'm giving 8 for the product and 7 for the pitch. i think the product is great.

i have the same problem i can't use cups, traditional cups. i think they screw with the taste. i'm looking forward to trying it and using it. the pitch i think in content was great. as a visual pitch you need to make more of the actual lid. it looks like you are strolling on carrying a cup of coffee. do something to draw attention to it. >> what about having coffee so you guys can -- >> i'm an old guy, i drop it over everything. if we're in a sit down situation i think great. >> michael. >> so i may be tougher on the pitch, it's a 4. i thought it was a little bit staged. so i could tell you memorized it but it was staged. in the beginning you drove through it so fast i had trouble following. i put a question mark under the product. because i'm not sure. in part because the pitch was weaker, than it needs to be. that it should be. and as a result i'm kind of going -- there is smelling foam aroma. but it didn't jump out at me as

something that was extraordinarily different than what ivg seen. >> can i ask you, 9.5 million sold, that's a lot. was the information in the pitch there but it was thrown off because of the presentation? >> i didn't -- 9.5 million sold, that's a huge number. one of the things we're looking for is momentum. >> you didn't hear it because you were so -- >> exactly. >> i give you a 4 for listening, michael. >> sorry what? >> all right. great. well, looks like you have the information there. this is good advice. thank you. congratulations on your success so far. good luck moving forward. if any of you out there have a product or a service and you want feedback from our elevator pitch panel on your chances of getting interested investors, just send us e-mail. yourbiz@msnbc.com, don't forget to write what your company does, how much money you are trying to raise and what you want to do with that. we look forward to reading those pitches and seeing some of you here in the elevator.

it's time now to answer some of your business questions. les and michael are here. the first is about human resources at your small business. >> how can small businesses get more resources when it comes to hr, you know, we don't have the money to hire an in-house hr department. but there are so many issues around hr that we need to navigate to make sure we're doing things correctly, to make sure we're taking good care of our team. >> hr is very difficult. right. you need to know what you're doing because you want to treat your employees right and you don't want to get sued. there are lots of services to help. >> adp is one of them. they do pay roll and benefits, retirement plans, they will set up an online documentation system for you. so a lot of these companies do a good job. a lot of experience and adp is one of them. >> you can look up peo

companies. >> i'm a proponent for bringing in hr in house as late as you can possibly get away with doing it because one of the things that happens is you start to conflate the compliance side with culture building. that's really important to keep your hands on the culture as long as possible. so outsource is your first step and keep it outsourced until you absolutely have to bring it on inside. >> there are two different sides of hr. we were talking about payroll and compliance and making sure you have the right posters up and et cetera. and then culture building which you as the owner and the founder can really work on yourtz. >> correct. >> it's also important i think for the owner not to abdicate these responsibilities, they need to understand -- >> exactly. >> you go do it. >> you can't trust someone else if you don't understand it yourself. good point. okay. moving on to the next one, about the impact of growth on getting investment. >> three most important things

that investors look for in growth companies? what are their hot buttons? >> what do you think? >> value, return, exit. that's it. value, return, exit. everything else, every other discussion with an investor they might say love your passion. the om thing they are thinking am i going to get a return. that's not to say that you can't make a case for the value of your business because you are passionately involved and it's a wonderful product. that's what they want, value, return, exit. >> what do you think about traction? >> traction is important. i want to see the product at the office stage. i want to see if it's going to move. so where are they getting traction? is it sales? channel partners? is it biz deals, is it product development? and if we see movement, we see traction, then we're interested. >> right. got it. then it gets to your point of growth. then can you keep that going

into growth. >> if a founder says listen, we're going to quick exit, we're going to flip, i'm a little worried. i want to see there is market share that they have a plan for the long term. if they get a quick exit that's great. if they are thinking quick exit from the beginning, that would worry me. >> okay. let's move on to the next one, a question about increasing your sales. >> we're still growing, and i wondered whether or not one of my best avenues for growth would be to increase the number of skews that i have, i currently only have three. >> i love this question because we have done stories on companies that have you know, so many skews and then cut them back and then other companies who have used that customer base to sell them more skews. how does he think through this? >> it depends. in his question it's not clear, he's saying she growing but has he exploited their current product line? because if he's thinking well, if we just add more products then we'll sell more, he may

be -- it's counter intuitive. it's not necessarily the case. he may start to dilute his evidents and sometimes cutting back on the skews can help because you can focus. >> what do you think? >> i think i'd want to look at why not, why not add some more skews and i'd be looking for profitability, are the current ones profitable, if they are fine f. they are not, you got to fix that first. the second thing is service and do the current skews suck up your ability to service your current customers. if they are, then you don't want to be adding more at this point. but the third thing that is probably the most important aspect is, is there a market opportunity. >> i was going to say is anyone asking for more? >> is somebody saying this is great, why can't you sell me this as well. so you want to look for not just a man that you imagine. one of the things we do is tell ourselves pretty stories. you want other people to be

telling you, not just a series of anecdotes, a trend of people if you do this, if you could do this as well as that, then i'd buy this. >> and it seems he has a customer base right now, right, he is growing, he can test it. seems like it's pretty easy to put something out there and see if his customers would buy whatever that product is. >> we don't test enough in business i don't think. we often say we've got to do this and make it right. >> that's right. >> great. thank you for your advice here and in the elevator pitch. appreciate it. if any of you have a question for our experts we answer them every week on the show so send us e-mail, yourbusiness@msnbc.com. thanks for joining us today. if you want to learn more about the show just head over to our website. it's open forum.com/your business. we are also on twitter,

it's@msnbcyourbiz and facebook and instagram. coming up next time, art, culture and small business pull an all nighter in washington, d.c. as we approach small business saturday we find out how the art all night festival is drawing customers to city streets and getting them to support local businesses. till then, i'm jj ramberg and remember, we make your business our business. we thought we'd be ready. but demand for our cocktail bitters was huge. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding. fast. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that.

you can't predict it, but you can be ready. another step on the journey. will you be ready when growth presents itself. realize your buying power at open.com. there are actually two things that we are keyed into on this friday night. one is hurricane patricia, bearing down on the pacific coast of mexico. the strongest hurricane ever recorded. it had sustained winds of over 200 miles an hour. those are winds like a strong tornado. but in a storm many, many, many, many times more massive. as the storm approached landfall in jalisco state it did weaken slightly as it made landfall. this is still just a mammoth storm and the worry is evacuations in that part of mexico happened early enough and completely enough that there will not be significant loss of life in the face of this huge storm. in addition to the winds, the storm could bring as much as a