tv Dead Men Talking MSNBC October 25, 2015 1:00am-2:01am PDT
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whoa. >> sudden death shrouded in suspense. >> all of a sudden her whole head and body just jerked dead left. >> medical mysteries. >> the doctors were baffled. the husband was beside himself. >> oh, good lord. >> devastating loss. >> he's in the garage right now cut down. he was 19 years old. just a very young person that became very distraught. >> they should have helped, not crucified him.
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>> strangers in life are about to end up side by side in death. it's about to be a busy weekend for the macomb county medical examiner. >> i never know when my phone rings what the next mystery may be. we're back. >> saturday morning, mount clemens, michigan. patty roland, the investigator on call at the macomb county medical examiner's office has just received news of a death in the county. >> and what happened? who's the attending? what was her pressure when she came in? >> patty is one of six medical
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investigators working 12-hour shifts around the clock for macomb county medical examiner dr. daniel spitz. >> this is a 24/7 operation, holidays, weekends. it doesn't really matter. sometimes the days other people aren't working are our busy days. >> dr. spitz has agreed to allow our cameras unprecedented access to the inner workings of his office just north of detroit. it's only saturday morning. anything can happen this weekend. and it will. >> it's a different thing every day. i go to crime scenes. i work with the police involving deaths and involving injury cases, so i never know when my phone rings what the next mystery may be. >> the m.e.'s office responds to any death that's unwitnessed, unexplained or suspicious within macomb and neighboring st. claire counties. if a terminally ill person dies a natural death and their doctor is willing to sign the death
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certificate, the body generally does not need to come into the morgue, but the case just called in has many unanswered questions. patty consults dr. spitz about the sudden, mysterious death of jill moore. >> i have a case i want to discuss with you. >> this was a 44-year-old woman who died suddenly. she had been to her dentist within the past few days, had fairly routine dental work done, and was sent home. she just went in for a routine cleaning. jill always had problems with cleaning so they gave her a couple shots of novacaine. >> over the course of a couple days she started to develop pretty profound jaw pain and that progressed to a headache. >> i woke up at 7:00 in the morning on saturday and she was laying by the front door. i'm like do you want to get up? she said, my head is killing me. just let me sit by the front door and let me see if i feel
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better. about five minutes later she just said i want to die. please call 911. >> it got so bad she went to the hospital and she was in the hospital with worsening jaw pain, worsening headache. >> after several hours in the hospital, doctors are considering releasing jill with a prescription for antibiotics when suddenly things take a turn for the worse. >> we were talking. i was holding her hand and she started to kind of go under a little bit like she was getting tired and all of a sudden her whole body and head just jerked dead left. i sat outside emergency for an hour. people were running in and out. once i saw them start to do cpr on her, i knew i lost my wife. i knew she wasn't coming back. i have a 13-year-old daughter who doesn't have a mother. obviously i'm mourning. it's just unbelievable. it all happened so fast. >> nobody had any idea what caused her death, a sudden, unexpected death in a fairly young, healthy woman. that's a medical examiner's case.
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>> because of the sudden and unexpected nature of jill moore's death, dr. spitz wants to perform an autopsy. john moore wants one, too. he wants to know what caused his wife's death. this is just one of several cases investigator patty roland will handle over the course of today's 12-hour shift. >> hi, bill. >> okay. see you later. have a good day. >> thank you. you mean you hope i have a quiet day? >> patty's not even out of the parking lot when the death bell rings. her work issued cell phone. a 50 something-year-old man has died at home. he's a diabetic with high blood pressure and chronic back pain.
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the roseville, michigan police deny our cameras access. >> is the family inside? >> yes. >> a white male? >> yes. >> for close to an hour patty talks to police, examines the body, and takes inventory of all prescription drugs found at the scene. a nurse by training, with 15 years experience, it isn't difficult for her to form a hypothesis as to cause of death. >> initially this appeared to be a natural death but after some investigation, probably accidental overdose. i think he over medicated. >> they are kind of like police. they're investigators and they go to these scenes and collect the information that i need to make decisions about how a death investigation is going to be handled. coming up next, jill moore's death is a mystery. dr. spitz's job is to solve it.
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it has been a busy weekend for the macomb county, michigan medical examiner's office. early saturday morning investigator bill robinette is on the way to a scene of another death. >> this is a 19-year-old male who hung himself sometime last night. a friend found him hanging in the garage this morning and cut him down.
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right now he's laying on the garage floor of his grandmother's address. >> the call came in at 5:50 a.m. within the hour, bill is moments away. >> i should be there probably in about five, six minutes if we don't get stopped by the police here. >> bill's boss, macomb county medical examiner dr. daniel spitz, sends investigators to most residential death scenes to work with police and make sure no detail is missed. >> they go to scenes. they collect information. they're knowledgeable about wounds and injuries. they have a different set of tools than the police do when it comes to being an investigator for a deceased person.
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many times the case is not suspicious but we don't know that until one of our investigators gets there and talks to the family, investigates the scene firsthand, takes photographs and actually examines the body. >> okay. so he's in the garage right now cut down? >> from what i understand he had a couple friends come over. >> okay. we'll go take a look. see what we got. >> did they remove the rope from his neck? >> by 7:00 a.m. investigator bill robinette has been briefed by officers on the scene and begun an external exam on the man identified as 19-year-old ryan sudowsky. >> okay. you can roll him over. bring him my way, i guess. >> when bill's done with the exam, he calls dr. spitz.
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>> the police are asking if you'd be doing this this morning or tomorrow? it's an obvious hanging. hemp rope around the neck, climbed up a ladder and stepped off of it. all right. bye. tomorrow. >> macomb county, michigan, population 900,000, is a mainly working class suburb of detroit. historically, the area's largest employer has been the automotive industry. but with some of the highest unemployment and foreclosure rates in the country things have been grim around here. >> in its heyday, this was a booming community. lately it's been very difficult because of the economy. it's caused a lot of people to lose their jobs and have hardships they didn't expect to have. as a medical examiner i see the direct result of it. the suicides have been frequent.
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>> he's tagged. ready to go. let dad see him for a minute. okay, guys. we're going to take him back to our facilities and dr. spitz is going to do the exam tomorrow. >> 19-year-old ryan sudowsky hasn't lost a job or a house. he's lost hope. according to his parents, ryan was trying to join the marine corps to get his life back on track after several run-ins with the law but the marines say it was ryan's arrest record that prevented him from being enrolled. it's human nature to look for blame. the sudowskys are angry at what they call the system for failing their son. >> each time he'd go to be sworn in they'd postpone it. can you imagine what that does to a young man?
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>> the marines failed him. >> the system failed him. >> and the court system failed, too. >> they should have helped not crucified him. >> i know from talking to so many relatives who have had a loved one commit suicide that it is just incredibly difficult for these people to understand how their loved one could ultimately make that decision. and i try to explain to them that the decision of suicide is not a very rational decision. many times i'm presented with, but they were happy. they were working. or they had plans. and they just can't accept it and i have meeting after meeting in my office with families who, while they acknowledge the suicide, they can never, ever understand how it is that their son or daughter got to that point.
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>> he was 19 years old, just a very young person, became very distraught. unfortunately, he took matters in his own hands and ended his life. just a sad ending to a nice day today. >> an hour and a half after bill's shift is over, he's still in the office doing paperwork. working here for nearly nine years, it's bound to make a man think about death. >> you just appreciate life a little bit more and you may go out and do a little bit more living. >> ryan sudowsky and jill moore, the 44-year-old woman who had a dental cleaning, jaw pain, and died in the e.r. this morning never knew each other in life but they're neighbors now in death.
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side by side, they are awaiting the last doctor's appointment they'll ever have. dr. spitz will perform both autopsies first thing in the morning. coming up -- >> it is full of rigor. happens about 12 hours after death. >> will ryan's autopsy reveal anything other than a straightforward suicide? and more cases. did this man have a heart attack in the water or was it a standard issue drowning? >> did a bystander find him first? >> lifeguard. >> okay. want to survive a crazy busy day? sfx: cell phone chimes start with a positive attitude... and positively radiant skin. aveeno® positively radiant moisturizer... with active naturals® soy.
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19 years old. and then a woman here who was in the hospital who went in for some jaw pain and was really being treated for that but nobody felt it was much of anything and she was actually being scheduled to be sent home and all of a sudden went into cardiac arrest and died, so an unusual situation. >> sunday may be a day of rest for many but for macomb county, michigan medical examiner dr. daniel spitz, the work never stops. >> took what kind of blood so far? >> three and one. >> christina heisler, one of dr. spitz's two assistants, prepares both of today's cases simultaneously. the first is jill moore, a 44-year-old mother who went to the hospital complaining of head pain after a recent dental
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cleaning and died in the e.r. >> keep in mind i did have my own hypothesis just based on that terminal event, a sudden cardiac arrest while in the hospital setting. there's a pretty short list of things that could cause that. i was thinking could this be some type of pulmonary embolism, some type of cardiac-related problem. i was keeping an open mind. >> she's probably got blood clots in her. her blood is starting to coagulate. i'm trying to manipulate the arteries to the blood clots will loosen up and i will be able to get some blood to send out to toxicology. 69 inches tall. 5'9". >> the other case is ryan sudowsky, a 19-year-old marine hopeful who hanged himself in the garage of his grandparents' house a few hours before jill's death. >> any apparent suicide we'll definitely look at the arms to
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see if there's any scars from previous attempts. the gentleman doesn't seem to have neon this side. he's full of rigor. happens about 12 hours after death. he's also a young man, really good muscle structure. the more muscle you have the more rigor you'll have because it binds to the proteins in your muscles. >> once the bodies are photographed and bodily fluids drawn for toxicology testing, dr. spitz begins the external exams. a comprehensive analysis of the body from head to toe. he bounces back and forth between the two cases, beginning with jill moore. because of her initial symptom this week severe jaw pain at first everyone is wondering whether the dental work had anything to do with mrs. moore's sudden death.
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>> we have a mystery. we don't know what happened. the doctors were baffled. the husband was beside himself. nobody knew. >> okay. christine, i'm taking a look at this lady's back and then she's ready to go. >> nothing on the external exam really gave me a big clue as to what i would be expecting. >> if any cases get to dr. spitz it's the young ones like ryan sudowsky. >> i can take a look at his back and then he's ready. especially lately when we've had so many suicides i do take a step back and look at some of these people -- young, healthy, good looking people that had their whole life ahead of them. i just think it must have been just an overwhelming burden and just a huge weight on their shoulders to ultimately come to the decision that this was the only way out.
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>> police who were on the scene of yesterday's suicide are in the morgue today. one undercover detective asks us not to reveal his face. >> do you have the rope? >> yes. >> take a picture of it so we can correlate it with the ligature mark. quite an elaborate knot on the rope he prepared. left what could be a suicide note but not really. stating what he's planning on doing. >> just rambling about the family. i've got a copy. >> okay. we take a copy for our file. >> with the external exams completed, dr. spitz is now ready to move on to the internal exams. as he's about to start on jill moore, his other assistant arrives, michelle waters. >> hello. >> hello. >> the internal exam is making a
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"y" incision across the body, opening the chest, opening the abdomen, and removing the rib plate, the chest plate so that you can visualize the chest and abdominal organs and then looking at the body cavities, looking for collections of blood or infection. >> something going on in her abdomen with all this blood. >> watch, find it's an aneurism. >> let's just work our way down. >> oh, there's a problem. >> the first clue dr. spitz finds? an accumulation of blood in mrs. moore's abdomen. but he quickly determines the blood is not significant. >> that's only a little bit of blood. i thought i was going to find a lot more. a little bit of blood in her abdomen didn't seem to be a problem. it seems to be mostly related to some resuscitation that she got while she was in the hospital.
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i kind of sat back and said wait a minute. this could be some type of aneurism that ruptured but quickly figured out it was a small amount of bleeding and there was a small injury to her liver which was cpr related. that was quickly ruled as being sort of an artifact of resuscitation as opposed to being related to her death. >> then the rest of the body is examined in the order in which dr. spitz always conducts these exams, organs removed, weighed, and dissected. and, finally, the head opened up. >> with a history of headaches you might expect some type of catastrophic bleed in the brain but that doesn't seem to be the case so far. coming up next, this medical mystery is about to be solved.
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>> certainly seems to be a major problem. >> but few could have predicted this. >> the reason i was calling is that your wife's autopsy has been completed and we have some answers for you. and more cases -- a high risk surgery, a deadly infection, an angry survivor. >> i'd like to see this doctor lose his license because to me he killed her. [female announcer] if the most challenging part of your day
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>> dr. daniel spitz is the medical examiner for macomb and st. claire counties, just north of detroit michigan. investigators from his office attend every death scene in the county occurring outside a hospital, hospice, or nursing home. his job, simply stated, to perform autopsies and figure out why people died. >> we obviously don't like surprises. we send an investigator to basically make sure the death is what it seems to be. and many times that allows us to comfortably release the body to the family, to the funeral home, and other times it prompts an investigation that involved the body coming into the medical
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examiner's office and an autopsy being done. >> he's been fascinated with this subspecialty of medicine since childhood. his father, dr. werner spitz is one of the country's best known forensic pathologists. after graduating from medical school in 1995 he did six more years of training in anatomic, clinical, and forensic pathology. >> it's not a field that attracts huge numbers of people. it's not billed as being glamorous like you see on various television shows but it has its own reasons for my interest. >> on this sunday afternoon in macomb county dr. spitz is about to solve a medical mystery, the case of 44-year-old jill moore, who had severe jaw pain after a dental cleaning and then died suddenly in the e.r. four days later. in autopsies, dr. spitz always follows the same routine. first an external exam, then
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internal. the external exam of mrs. moore revealed nothing. >> we're still trying to figure out exactly what happened. >> finally, as he dissects the heart, dr. spitz finds the elusive answer. >> it wasn't long before i identified a severe coronary artery narrowing that involved one of her main coronary arteries that precipitated a sudden cardiac arythmia and sudden death. >> there is a very profound blockage in the beginning portion of the left anterior descending coronary artery. you can see right at the tip of my scalpel it shows a yellow plaque. >> jill moore has died of a thrombus or blood clot sparked by severe coronary artery disease she didn't even know she had. in other words, she suffered a fatal heart attack.
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70% of people having a heart attack, male or female, suffer the classic symptom -- chest pain or radiating pain to the neck, arms, back, shoulders, or jaw. >> her jaw pain and even headache could be related to some cardiac ischemia which means the referring pain from the heart muscle not getting enough blood flow can cause pain in other areas of the body. the typical one is radiating pain down the left arm, sort of more classic. this is not so classic but i think in light of the findings all of this is sort of intimately related. >> in some cases and more commonly in women, atypical symptoms such as fatigue, nausea, or dizziness may occur. many times women don't even realize they're having a heart attack and if they appear young and relatively healthy as jill moore likely did, an emergency room might overlook or misdiagnose it.
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doctors may have also been thrown off by mrs. moore's recent and purely coincidental trip to the dentist which in the end had nothing to do with her death. >> she had a dental cleaning just four days ago. somehow that seemed to maybe play a role in how she was evaluated thinking it may have been some kind of dental problem and then it turns out to be a heart related disease. >> my role is determining cause of death but any time i have the chance to help the living i take it, so a phone call was made to her family to discuss the findings and let them know that siblings, children, anybody related to her may, in fact, be at risk for a sudden death related to coronary artery disease and should prompt intervention and treatment if needed and at least a workup to see if that kind of disease is present. >> hi, mr. moore. it's betty from the medical examiner's office. the reason i was calling is that
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your wife's autopsy has been completed. we have some answers for you. >> jill moore's biggest risk factor? she was a smoker. more than half of all heart attacks in women under 50 are due to smoking. and at this age, women are two to three times more likely than men not to survive a heart attack. >> i was totally just shocked. at 44 years old we never knew that. rampant heart disease doesn't run in her family. i would just tell people that if there was any inkling or if you didn't feel good, please go get it checked out. maybe as bad as this is, you know, for jill and my family, that somebody will benefit from it. >> even though there's little question as to the cause of death of ryan sudowsky, the 19-year-old who committed suicide, dr. spitz opts to perform an internal exam anyway. >> we don't always autopsy every suicide.
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i felt in this case it was a good idea. keep in mind while the medical examiner is charged with determining cause and manner of death, that you're presented a body that tells a story. and in this case the injuries obviously told the story of his death but the analysis of the organs could possibly tell an unrelated story that could help his living relatives. did he have any underlying heart disease? did he have any injuries that were significant? as i expected, i didn't find anything of great significance. this is going to be a pretty straightforward suicidal hanging with no detection of any natural disease. >> i love my son. i was just devastated. i couldn't believe it. but it still hurts.
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it still hurts. >> with cause and manner of death now conclusively determined in both of the day's cases, jill moore and ryan sudowsky are ready to be picked up by their respective funeral homes. dr. spitz's work is done for the day. it's odd to consider but tomorrow's cases may be alive and well at the moment with no idea they're about to end up on the autopsy table tomorrow morning. but the doctor tried not to think about things like that as he spends what's left of the weekend out on lake st. claire with his family. >> go for a ride. as far as taking my work home, i try not to. you know, i don't think it would be good.
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it would cause me to do things and act in a way that's not necessarily normal. i don't want to see something here and be paranoid and cause my kids to not have a normal childhood because of something that i saw. i realize that accidents happen, i realize that traffic accidents are frequent, pedestrian accidents, kids on bikes, drownings. i realize all these things happen. i see them regularly. >> okay, addison, you're in there. >> michigan winters are long and cold. on sunny days like this dr. spitz and his family try to get out on the water as often as they can. but this family outing is about to take a strange turn. in a chilling coincidence just ten miles away in the very same body of water, dr. spitz's next patient has just met his final fate.
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>> we were dispatched to the beach where a younger white male was discovered in the water. the lifeguard pulled him out and started to administer cpr. he was transported to the emergency room here where they continued to work cpr and obviously it didn't work out. coming up next, who is this drowning victim? and how exactly did he die? >> nobody knows an identification of this person and that's what we're going to try and figure out. many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope... doesn't work on wrinkles. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair has the fastest retinol formula... to work on fine lines and even deep wrinkles in just one week. neutrogena®.
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st. claire, there's an eerie coincidence. >> what's going on? how old is he? >> just ten miles away in the same body of water, an unidentified man has drowned. he's brought to a local hospital where medical investigator shawn monticello photographs him. police will take the photo back to the beach to see if anyone can identify him. >> i'll just put the tag on him, his arm band, identification band, so when he gets to the morgue, the autopsy techs can get any information needed to start the autopsy process. even though we consider him a john doe until he's positively identified. >> that same afternoon, a 47-year-old woman named providence marie markham collapses and dies at home in roseville, michigan.
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13 days earlier, mrs. markham had hernia surgery. doctors warned it could be risky. she weighed more than 300 pounds. according to her husband, michael, the day she was released from the hospital, she told her doctor she didn't feel well enough to go home. >> he just looked at her and finally she just says i don't feel right. i don't think i should. i don't feel i'm ready and he said, mrs. markham, you're going home. >> over the next two days she has excruciating abdominal pain and loss of bowel control. her husband says he called the doctor repeatedly to no avail. >> he said, mr. markham, i think your wife just wants to be sick. i said should i bring her to the e.r.? he says that's up to you but there's nothing we can do for her that you can't do there. >> ten minutes after hanging up the phone, michael markham decides to buck the doctor's advice and take his wife to an e.r. it's now around 5:00 p.m. sunday and what he doesn't know is that his wife is dying. >> i got her up. we walked out.
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made it about ten feet to the living room and she stopped. i looked at her and i says, can you make it, baby? and she goes, she shook her head, took her last breath and i felt her legs go down and i held her all the way down. >> he basically watches her death. and he's just beside himself. he has no idea how this death could occur. he is very upset and needs to know what happened. i'll take these and sign them later. >> by late sunday, the drowning victim is identified. >> who identified him? >> wife. >> okay. >> he is jehad sarore. he is age 35. he leaves behind a 28-year-old wife and four young children, all of whom were with him at the beach. his wife is strong for the children but angry the life guards weren't able to save her husband.
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>> it's the weekend and all the people around. the lifeguard should put more effort to help people. there are several lifeguard over there. there is not one, not only one. >> tomorrow's cases are wheeled into the morgue's 42-degree cooler. in just a few hours, they'll be in the hands of dr. spitz. another set of strangers in life, two people who most likely never crossed paths, now share the same room for one night in death before being studied and then sent off to their final resting places. first thing monday morning, all hands are on deck. as dr. spitz gets ready to perform the two autopsies of the day. >> one is a 47-year-old woman
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who was found dead at home. it was sort of a sudden collapse actually. the other case is a 35-year-old man who was swimming in a public beach and a lifeguard there pulled him from the water but after several minutes, though he was transported to the hospital, he was pronounced dead at the hospital. >> dr. spitz begins with 35-year-old jehad who drowned at the beach saturday afternoon. toxicology samples have been drawn. they'll be sent to the lab for analysis. >> the question would, be it looks like he drowned so why bother to do this? you never want to assume that a body recovered from water is a drowning death. because you will miss cases of homicide where the body has been disposed in the water as a means
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of concealing the death. you will also miss cases where somebody had a natural event that essentially caused their death. actually while the person was in the water. >> after the hour plus autopsy dr. spitz has reached a conclusion which toxicology reports confirm weeks later. the man's system had no trace of drugs or alcohol. his death is purely accidental. >> it certainly looks to be a drowning death. there is probably a component of the environment where he was swimming which caused it to be very difficult for him to maintain himself on the water. >> it appears he got swept out of the swimming area by the tide and then stuck in seaweed on the lake's floor ending up literally and figuratively in over his head. his wife agreed to speak with us to get out a message. >> my goal is to stop this tragedy, not to happen to anyone else and the water, about the
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government, the water should be cleaned up of the seaweed. coming up next the second case of the day presents a graphic challenge for the medical examiner and his staff. >> i mean, obviously doesn't smell like roses in there. >> that was pretty high on the list as being one of the worst we've had. >> like i said, you take the good with the bad.
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that of 47-year-old providence marie markham, who collapsed at home, 13 days after having hernia surgery. so far, it's another medical mystery. >> we're back. the only thing we know so far is she's an overweight woman. she is on home oxygen so it certainly raises the question of some underlying lung disease. >> but as soon as the initial incision is made it becomes apparent to dr. spitz what caused the woman's death. everyone here can tell from what they see and from what they smell. >> i made the "y" incision in the body and opened up the abdomen. >> there's pus. >> be careful how we open this. >> and right upon opening the abdominal cavity it was filled with fecal material and evidence of fairly profound infection. >> hang on.
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hang on. >> yeah. that's pus. smells like pus or scoop. i don't know which. what's that? >> part of her bowel. >> oh, good lord. >> hey, christina, can you take a picture, please? the infection progressed to the point of causing organ failure and we're back to the heart where the septic shock, the toxins and bacteria circulating in the blood basically caused the heart to stop functioning. >> that fluid coming out of there? >> she had recent surgery and it looks like she's got some infection going on in her abdomen. so i just want to document a little bit of this before we continue on. the smells are pretty intense and it's something that all of us here are used to. it's not pleasant. >> man, her intestine is just a
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swollen mess. she has a distended and perforated bowel. she had recent surgery. i think she's had some complications here. yes, there have been less than desirable autopsies today. >> as dr. spitz wraps up the internal exam the body of providence marie markham speaks to him loud and clear. >> it was almost at the time of the first cut that we knew what happened. sometimes that's what happens. you make one incision and there it is. she had perforated her intestine and caused peritonitis, an infection in the abdomen that allowed contamination of the
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abdominal cavity, which then caused septic shock and a fairly rapid death. hello. mr. markham? >> dr. spitz reaches out to the woman's husband to see whether his story will corroborate the findings in the autopsy room. >> i just wanted to let you know the examine was done yesterday and wanted to ask you a couple questions if i could. was she having abdominal pain? did she have a fever? >> and i told him, when he asked me about the pain i told him she had pain in her right side. >> what happened really close to the time that she passed? did she go lay down or did she collapse or what happened? was she kind of lethargic and really not doing well? you laid her down on the couch? >> he asked if i laid her on the couch and i said no i held her down on the floor like she was beginning to squat down is what it was. and i held on to her until she
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went down all the way. i laid her on the floor. >> okay. okay. well, i just wanted to call to get an understanding as to what happened from your point of view in the days and hours and minutes, you know, prior to her death. >> like many survivors michael markham is as angry as he is sad. he's hired an attorney and is moving forward with a lawsuit against his wife's doctor. >> i would like to see this doctor lose his license and if i could see him jailed because to me he killed her. >> this weekend's cases now resolved, the bodies have been released to their respective funeral homes. there's room now for new cases to come in, for one last doctor's appointment before moving on to their final destinations
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i didn't really know a lot about saudi arabia. it looked fantastic. palm trees, sun. what more can you ask for? >> cheers. >> the biggest shock is when i read a line, homosexuality is a crime. i did wonder would it be safe for me to go there. >> i'm gay. >> i just couldn't believe there was drugs. there was al
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